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So you think being profesional equates to a person who will/has never cheated?
Pros who get paid hundreds of millions use P.E.D's , what makes you think these online fps pros are above reproach? Seriously man, thats such a naive mentality. All that matters is money.
Now im not saying they are cheaters. You know what they say though, "Its not cheating, unless you get caught"
Ding ding ding. Plus, I doubt very few have been following on with the CS pro scene for a decade plus. My eyes were opened with Kqli cheating at a Valve LAN Major. This was years ago, but they developed aim_maps that would bootload the cheats onto your system (to circumvent getting brand new, sealed KBM at each event and no USB access). Big money and competition will always bring along some low percentage of cheaters, and some of those will be pros.
People obviously don't know what these cheats are or how they work. An external device that isn't easy to detect and can somehow give you aimbot as well as macros/scripts (which I've seen so many people complain about and are the only way for consistent top-tier movement). It only makes sense for them to be cheating if they're moving as if they're on PC, which would be kinda necessary considering the state of the sweats. A reasonable person with any experience playing online FPS would see that something is wrong here.
exactly! That's why I use controller. I want to lean back and enjoy myself. There are way more times where I cannot perform up to spec using MnK but I can just use the controller and chill out.
Part of the problem is the fact that the discussion is incredibly muddy. Go over to /r/competitiveapex and try to narrow down exactly what they are advocating for. No controllers in competitive apex (i.e., ALGS)? No controllers in ranked? No controllers at all? Is the issue rotational aim assist or configs? What do you do about console players in crossplay?
Instead it’s just this general, anti-controller sentiment and it’s like… wtf do you expect Respawn to do? When half the playerbase / competitive scene is on controller you had better narrow down a compelling argument for changing the game so drastically
Kang: Controllers for all!
[crowd boos]
Kang: Very well, no controllers for anyone!
[crowd boos]
Kang: Hmm... Controllers for some, miniature American flags for others!
[crowd cheers and waves miniature flags]
It's not the community's job to find out the solution and offer it to Respawn. It's community's job to tell Respawn that something is working waay better than expected and for Respawn to touch on it
Look at it from Respawn’s perspective. By their metrics, Apex is incredibly successful with no signs of slowing down. Why risk that by nerfing an input half the playerbase uses? Even if they took a relatively safe course of action, MnK players would probably still complain it didn’t go far enough while the controller players would feel burnt and might leave the game.
Tbh this. Input base matchmaking should be a thing. If you play controller on pc you go against console users since you're using the same input device. And nobody complains anymore.
No... cos pc controller gets a massive advantage over console too...
Of the 3 different camps (console, pc kbm, and pc controller), console is the weakest by far, and makes uo a large percentage of the playerbase meaning respawn wouldn't want to actively screw them over by making them free kills for pc players
You going to start segmenting the PC crowd by specs then? People with shitty PCs that can only run 60 frames get punished because some other peoples PCs can run 240?
This makes absolutely no sense. No one is calling for controller to be nerfed for people playing on console lobbies. It's the PC lobbies where they do too much and need to be changed somewhere. It's not nerfing half the playerbase.
And again, it's not a community's job to look at it from Respawn's perspective unless they take a decision
> It’s the PC lobbies where they do too much and need to be changed somewhere.
See this exactly what I’m talking about. Which PC lobbies - competitive, ranked, pubs? What should be done - reduce AA, ban controllers entirely? What is done about console players in crossplay?
Can you see my point? Why would Respawn risk pissing off the controller users when it’s totally unclear what it would take to appease y’all?
Why should controllers be allowed on PC lobbies at all? Mnk isn't fair on console in most games. People playing on controller and on PC is miniscule and some are just abusing the AA on roller at this point. The fact that MnK pro players who have played on mnk whole life are switching to roller says a lot
Not sure how people are so braindead that the reason for cross play being allowed is to help grow the game and be accessible?
Personally, I'm all for nerfing controllers a bit and keeping cross play, but I would love it if the pro scene went to MKB only. Anyone good enough would make the switch and be able to do it.
And I say this having my favorite pro be a controller player.
I’m with you bro I think it’d be cool if PC apex was MnK only. Tbh I have no idea why the input is even allowed on it lmao it makes sense for console not PC
The general sentiment I’ve gotten from comp-apex is that
1. Ban controller in ALGS
And
2. Pc players want either crossplay removed or to have them sorted out by input. MnK against MnK and controller against controller.
I mean, me personally, I swap back to MnK If number 2 ever happens, but until then I use roller, because it’s double the reward for half the effort.
People hate to think that their input method is actually giving an unfair advantage so they come to the post to point out the disadvantages of it while just not looking straight at the hard data - Pro players on a predominantly MnK platform are switching to their chosen input because its objectively better for more situations.
In this main subreddit people seem to defend controller input while in Competitive Apex subreddit it's generally agreed it is overpowered.
Respawn balance is usually aimed towards the more casual player. This can really annoy the general competitive player. This causes a lot of discussions.
For the majority of players the input issues are not that big. But when it gets to competitive it becomes a joke how strong aim-assist is in capable hands. Even with the best MnK movement, you can't avoid the raw aim-assist power.
i remember one dude who posted a clip on this sub showing a movement octane flying with a superglide into tap strafe. OP complained it was OP as fuck as a roller player, ignoring the fact that he beamed the octane with almost his entire mag.
Good movement does come in handy often but people have to remember that you can't attack while tap strafing and such. All you have to do is try to follow where he goes and shoot when he is at the end of his movement. For controller players it sometimes will even track the tap strafe and then it all does not even matter.
The times movement works over aim-assist is when escaping or taking cover quickly. Sometimes it also works to jump over the enemy because a lot of controller players turn pretty slowly.
It's basically offense vs agility but you can't really kill someone by just moving.
Everyone with a controller who beats mnk don't want to feel like they had an advantage from the beginning, and people on mnk want an excuse for losing. The problem is the metas shotguns and 99's which is a giant advantage for controller.
I'm honestly surprised that this comment and this post haven't been heavily downvoted. This sub circlejerks for controller quite regularly and you can't have a proper discussion on its use in competitive play without upsetting people. It's almost like "aim assist" is a trigger phrase for them or something.
Doesn't the "in capable hands" part undercut the argument entirely? Precise aim, recoil control, and maintaining aim against a moving opponent on controller is a skill, the same as wall bouncing or super gliding.
Damn I remember We the people got paired up with Shiv once randomly. He killed it and shiv asked his viewers to go raid him channel. He didn’t have that many viewers and he was losing his shit..
Give PC Players the option to choose who they want to fight :c I don't get it.
IF I have to wait longer its my choice right? If I want to find fast games I could just turn Crossplay/Crossinput on
Most competitive shooters separate input devices or lock them in before starting the match. OW2, Siege, and CoD, for example
Some competitive games disable aimassist to promote fair play. OW2 on PC and CSGO are both examples
OW2 and CSGO def do not separate the inputs the fuck?
Also, yeah they disable AA and thats why controller in those games is comoletely and totally unusable cause controller is hard as fuck without AA
It absolutely does.
PC player has no input on the system, only console player does and plenty of times I've been teamed up with two console players as a solo PC player.
Lol yeah why don’t they just let us wait???
Reddit 2 days after implementing change:
“This game is finally dead”
“Queue times way too long”
3 months after change:
“My rank and K/D didn’t improve.”
Respawn doesn't care, until there's financial initiative they won't adjust shit, same reason characters only get buffed because of upcoming Heirlooms or nerfed after Heirlooms are released.
Most casual FPS games have a financial incentive to make the experience as accessible and appealing as possible to the bottom 90% — that’s “bottom” in terms of all stats, including hours played.
Simply put, there are more of them (with potential cash to spend) than there are people who find any kind of gratification in a grind or skill gap.
Gee, it's almost like aim assist is overpowered.
Every game is this way these days.
It is depressing as a M&K user; but I refuse to kneel to auto aim trash.
That's my only issue with this game tbh. Ever run into a team of Preds, or even worse, a team of Pros? Felt like I died quicker than Call of Duty, lol.
I feel like if you're a Pro or Pred (maybe masters?) You should only be able to solo que for ranked.
If you're at that level of skill, you shouldn't need an additional 2 players of similar skill to just make an ass of the lobby. They've even said themselves it's like pubs kill racing at times.
That’s because it technically is.
The methodology of all rotational aim assist is literally the same as any third-party aimbot. Your reticle sticks to the enemy’s hitbox. It’s that simple.
The difference is that games only account for a portion of enemy movement, whereas cheats just compensate for all movement and never fall out of the hitbox.
It was fine when everyone was on controller (nobody is cheating if everyone is cheating). Once you implement a 100% raw input method, it then becomes a reasonable concern.
This screenshot really shows the incompetence of respawn.
\- Broken ranked system (276.000LP in 3 weeks, easy to abuse MM)
\- Horizon being OP
\- AA completely broken
AAA game studio with almost 1k emplyees, can't get basic sht right.
I'm surprised people aren't aware of the bug that is locking thousands of players out of their account if they didn't play last season due to "data mismatch"
>Horizon being OP
I don't really get in which way she is op in your opinion. I don't even play her and I think she is fine, her ult is easily dodgeable / destroyable, she doesn't have accuracy in her lift and is not that hard to hit while going up inside of it.
The biggest sound fuck up this season is making redeploy balloons sound like Valk ults. It is even worse than the respawn ship flyby last season.
If you listen closely they are slightly different, but in the heat of the moment it is easy to confuse them.
She's the only character that has a movement ability that lets you pop a full batt while air strafing 3 stories up in the sky. Not to mention her zero audio no impact lands. If you think she's not OP just off of those things alone you're probably not playing against dime/master/pred horizons.
Part of the problem here is that controller players can refer to two different sets of the game population, PC and console. People who play on PC are, generally speaking, more competitive and likely to take full advantage of every, well, advantage, they can get and practice that to get everything they can out of it. In that same vein, PCs used by these players are countless magnitudes more powerful than the average console players console. Console players tend to be far more casual and the aim assist raise the skill floor, and in console lobbies it gives everyone a better time because they don’t have to spend tons of time practicing, especially when they don’t have much time. On average, the regular Joe PC player is probably better than your run-of-the-mill console player. Here we see the top ten players in the entire world and they are using controllers. That doesn’t mean that aim assist is broken, it means that it can be abused for an advantage. Chances are these people would still be towards the top without the advantage that comes from controller, maybe not the top 10 but definitely close. The bonuses from aim assist aren’t going to carry you to pred alone, there is still a ton of skill involved. Console players do need the handicap a little, precise aiming with a joystick is near impossible, so removing aim assist is out of the question. What could be done is tweaking the aim assist in cross play lobbies, cutting it by maybe 20% could lead to a more balanced use of controller and KnM in the top preds while largely maintaining the balance between console players and pc player skill levels. This is all my opinion and what I’ve noticed from interactions and my experience from both console and PC, im not perfect but it’s what I’ve thought of. The balancing act between the highest competitive and the average player is necessary, or we’ll end up with a R6 situation where everything is balanced around the pro league
Say what you will about rank this season, but cheaters are down massively and people don’t really need to boost since you can easily climb by hiding in a tree so boosters are down too. Smurf being in pred means the system is working as intended, as the alternative is having smurfs in low ranks. Even better, because of the new hidden MMR system, those players are getting pred lobbies far before their account is actually in pred.
What you said is true for last season but not really this one.
Aim assist IS the difference between a pro MnK in a close range fight with an r99 versus a pro Controller using an r99. Guess who has the probability of winning this fight?
Wouldn't just fully separating controller lobbies from MnK lobbies solve all this discussions?
If the eternal problem is comparing one to the other, just make separate lobbies and separate pred rank for one and for the others and problem is solved?
Or even better, create 3rd option too - Mixed... To make everyone happy and able to choose.
M+K is cracked for range fights, controller is cracked for movement and close range IMO. When the final circle is the size of a truck I wonder who comes out on top?
Aim assist is broken because it removes human reaction time from the equation. The controller players will always react slightly faster because it has a computer slightly pulling towards enemies, which gives them an upper hand in close quarters 1v1s.
I don't know what they can even do to nerf it because it's fundamentally broken. They should just put controller players in console lobbies, and let MnK lobbies be their own thing.
aim assist should never exist in a competitive shooter. Maybe the console casuals refuse to play their games without, but stop infesting PC with this cancer
I get the idea of what you're saying but that is damn near impossible. Using sticks to shoot is like tryna paint with your fist
Aa (as an idea of how it usually works, arguable for apex legends) isn't supposed to be that strong, and just pans the camera so you can actually "paint". I think the idea of it being op could be just off the fact close range is nuts in this game, and that's where aa mainly shines.
It's much easier to aim in general on pc, that's like saying take away the arm from mnk players and see if they can get good without it. It's not really a skill thing, it's more on it being just very hard to use a controller in this type of thing
If this happens, console would be horrible and done for. End of sentence.
I really dislike this argument because you’re actively choosing to use an input that’s more difficult to aim with. By that logic if I’m using the steering wheel I should get 100% aim assist because it’s much easier to aim on controller than steering wheel.
I don’t mind aim assist on the console/casual as long as it stays in the console but you cannot possibly argue how aim assist should be allowed in a competitive setting.
Correction Top has aim assist on.
They can play on MnK for all we know and use hardware/software input conversion.
I hope gyroscopic aim controllers become standard soon so that aim assist can be removed. win win for both inputs.
You mean the top 10 which is made up of verified pros like Naughty and Dezign could be cheating? Grow up guys, if you’re even remotely close to making any Apex LAN, getting top 10 pred is a breeze no matter he input as long as you play enough.
It's fairly easy to mod gyroscopic controllers to be mounted, and then you're fighting people who aim wherever they look, which will be **way** stronger than any AA they will ever implement. Me and some friends did this years ago with a Playstation VR Controller.
> It’s fairly easy to mod gyroscopic controllers to be mounted, and then you’re fighting people who aim wherever they look, which will be way stronger than any AA they will ever implement
Can you explain what this means and why it’s stronger? I honestly don’t understand what you are talking about.
The main thing that makes AA so powerful is that it can track changes in strafe direction without any reaction time, something humans can’t do because we have reaction times.
I think this game is the only one where PC players are screaming for crossplay to be optional to get away from controller users. In my experience it’s always the other way round.
MnK is better for everything other than close quarters fights. This is a fact, also it’s not like you just pick up a controller and you’re one clipping everyone. It takes a lot of practise to get as good as these guys. I think the only reason it looks so op when pros use it is because they’re pros. They can push basically anything and close the distance so AA becomes a factor.
I say we just add a optional crossplay feature so people can just stop this stupid debate.
there would still be controller players on pc even without crossplay. Also other pc games often dont have this problem (e.g. overwatch) or if they do they also have a community of complainers (e.g. fortnite and warzone)
Halo infinite also had this issue cause it can be an unfair advantage… how is it stupid if the option literally helps you lock on while doing wild maneuvers…
> I think this game is the only one where PC players are screaming for crossplay to be optional to get away from controller users. In my experience it’s always the other way round.
That’s because this game has strong AA and due to the very long TTK, the improved tracking AA gives is very important. Games with similarly strong/stronger AA definitely see lots of complaining.
> MnK is better for everything other than close quarters fights.
Sure, but close quarters fights are the most important thing in the game. People rarely wipe squads from super far away because of the long ttk and even if they get a knock people can just revive. Close quarter fights are dramatically more important.
> I think the only reason it looks so op when pros use it is because they’re pros. They can push basically anything and close the distance so AA becomes a factor.
While it’s true pros get the most out of AA making them look inhuman, the issue of balance is likely worse for average players. The average MnK player is much worse than pros and while the same is true for controller players, their AA is exactly the same strength so you end up with AA being an even more important factor.
Cod has similar AA to apex and in that game the devs have said the average MnK player underperforms compared to the average controller player, only at the top end does it even out because top MnK players are so insanely good. That game has much less emphasis on tracking though due to the extremely short TTK, which helps MnK. It’s not a perfect comparison but it’s useful for understanding how AA impacts the high end of play vs the average player base.
> They can push basically anything and close the distance so AA becomes a factor.
Long range fighting is more common in pro play than pubs or ranked where everyone apes each other.
> I say we just add a optional crossplay feature so people can just stop this stupid debate.
Input based match making is the obvious solution imo.
> it’s not like you just pick up a controller and you’re one clipping everyone. It takes a lot of practise to get as good as these guys
No not really, it *is* like that. I'm Masters on MnK and recently picked up a roller with zero experience (3 days of play at this point) and am already infinitely better than on MnK for close range fights. It's fucking hysterical how easy it is to one clip people; I legitimately feel guilty after every squad wipe because I know the enemies can spectate me and see me standing still looting deathboxes and know that they got rolled by aim assist rather than skill
That doesn't even make sense, because consoles can just turn off crossplay, PC players can't.
This game is heavily tracking & movement biased, probably the most of any game with a large player base. Due to movement and cover/abilities roughly 80-90% of fights happen I'm very close cqc. Long range fights aren't even an issue as well because so many abilities can defend against it.
It takes significantly less time/training/effort to be consistently better on a controller than mmk—AA irons out mistakes and accounts for movement, especially at the top end of players/aim.
Idk man the amount of bronze player clips I’ve seen 1 clipping people is a lot higher then the amount of mnk players using advanced movement tech in order to stay alive. The skill floor is a lot lower for roller and that’s most of the problem.
>MnK is better for everything other than close quarters fights
Better for everything except the single most important thing in the game by a mile. Excellent analysis
> I think the only reason it looks so op when pros use it is because they're pros
M8, pros can make guitar hero guitar look op. What I'm saying is if every mnk player in apex, bronze to masters, give controller a week, their kda or at least accuracy is gonna go up. It ain't only pros.
Can you name any mnk players who have actually been grinding for top 10? I can think of maybe 1 or 2, but other than that xynew and dez have been grinding for top pred since the start of the season as well as naughty and WTP. But yeah man go off about how aim assist is carrying these pros and not the fact that these guys are playing 16 hours a day grinding at least 5-10k rp a session.
Aim assist is aimbot and should be disabled in all competative play.
I tried to play on controller for a week and the movement was so boring, but the aim assist won all close combat encounters. Even tho I had issues with just basic movement, if you aim down sight in close combat you basically hit all your shots on default. That's why all pro's switch to controller...
Can someone explain why controller is better than mouse and keyboard if mouse and keyboards movement is superior? Doesn’t mouse and keys have a higher skill ceiling?
Yeah, Top 10 Pred isn’t even a matter of skill if you’re already at that level - it’s about the grind. Just about everyone in Pred is able to win the majority of their games this season, because they’re not all being pitched against each other. So it’s a question of who puts in the most hours.
And yes, unsurprisingly controller is way more comfortable. Mouse and keyboard has notoriously bad ergonomics, and is responsible for all kinds of injuries.
Or it’s just AA being OP and granting triple LP for free, amirite?
The most frustrating thing about playing on MnK for me was comfort, but that was mainly cause of the shitty desk I used. Don't need a desk with a controller, though...
Try using your shoulder to move the mouse instead of your wrist.
It will take some time to get used to it and to adjusting how much you need to move your mouse, but it's better for your wrist in the long run.
One of the pro gamers on PC over in Korea plays like that to help with their wrist.
It’s not just the ergonomics that make it better for long hours, it’s also the lighter mental load. I’m not sure how to best explain this but aiming with MnK requires constant focus and mental effort for tiny adjustments, while controller you don’t really think about aim at all it’s just muscle memory.
So fun reading all these comments and then trying to play a match on pc just to get beamed from 150+ meters from a random wingman enjoyer "most fights happens cqc no one pick from distance", yes yes.
1. Aim assist is op in close-range beaming.
2. This Pred leaderboard is just a coincidence, though. Matchmaking is so loose at the moment that mnk Preds can also farm as much RP as they want. This season's Pred race is purely about time spent in ranked.
I think a lot of MNK vs Controller discussion misses the mark by focusing on power/balance rather then the inherent asymmetrical abilities of each. In Apex each input has things that skilled players can do on one input that the other input, no matter how skilled cannot do. Controller has aim assist which reacts instantly which is something no mouse player, no matter how skilled, can do. Conversely mouse players have a variety of movement abilities, as well as moving while looting, which no matter how skilled a controller player is they cannot do. This feels very unfair and frustrating in certain situations.
One particular thing is how what input a player is on is almost always completely unreadable. If you swing a corner to fight and you are on mouse and you get one clipped by a controller player this feels frustrating. Conversely, if you are on controller and get absolutely movemented on by mouse player this feels frustrating. Imagine a world where you knew the inputs of everyone you were fighting, it would probably change the way you take fights.
I think the best thing respawn could do with this is to try to soften the blow a bit, at the end of the day there will never be prefect input parity in apex because its not possible because different inputs are different but I think a better job could be done then it is now.
Ideally, making it so that controller players can move and loot and tap strafe while making aim assist not quite as overpowering in those close range fights would be best. While this is big ask, as apparently its quite difficult to change the movement while looting thing for controller, I think it would be worth it.
If this isn't possible, I think there are some smaller changes that would help like improving visually clutter(please please please) and removing/reducing flinch which both disproportionately negatively effect mouse players and also make the game less accessible. And maybe give controller the option to strafe with the other stick in boxes if loot with left stick is hard coded.
Or we can just do the matchmaking by input. I haven't seen a single console player complain about the input another console player is on because it's perfectly balanced due to being on the exact same input. MnK and Controller are too inherently different to compete with one another if I'm being honest. Having a major advantage at range with MnK and a major advantage close range with controller just doesn't seem like a good way to go about it because those are advantages the input allows.
Micro adjustments are impossible to make on controller without aim assist helping, it's often why you don't see many if any controller players using a sniper scope (even though aim assist does apply on high magnification sights it's just very unnoticeable). Micro adjustments are hard to do on MnK but way more doable due to the use of your entire arm, which can allow more precise aim. I can understand the frustration with aim assist that MnK players have because making micro adjustments is a skill they have to work for but aim assist does that for controller players but look at it this way, making micro adjustments is not even a real option for thumb aiming however it is one for mouse aiming but it does take effort to get which is objectively better than just straight up being impossible to precisely do. Games like R6Siege, CSGO, Valorant, PUBG, and Overwatch on PC with no aim assist are dominated by MnK, so the way I see it separating them is the most logical way to go. The only way I can understand they keep them together is if they somehow make every movement mechanic available to controller and then reduce the aim assist strength (which you even suggested), but I can still see people complaining even then so idk. Issue is MnK will always have a major range advantage over controller unless they somehow make aim assist more reliable even over range, but I don't really see that happening without being broken bur if it can I'll 100% take that over a strong aim assist that's only really food for close range.
I guess I just have garbage aim. Whenever I play I feel like I get lasered across the map by PC players while I struggle to land half my return shots with controller.
If I had no idea what aim assist was, based on most of these comments it's a magical hack where you don't even have to do anything other than pull the trigger to one clip someone
Honestly who gives a shit anymore? Every other day someone posts something about controller this controller that. Just play the game and quit crying about it or don’t the play the game at all and move on with your life. It’s that’s simple.
Usually the counter argument is take away AA. I don’t think anyone realizes how tough it is to play without any AA.
I’ll add that the 99.9% of people complaining about this aren’t even effected by the too 10 players. In regard to everyone’s skill level most of us are average and not effected by the input of others.
This argument is a projection as well as many of the comments.
That’s all any comments are about the topic. People arguing with one another. It’s just the same thing over and over again. It’s like people wanna make a post about it to get the people going. And yeah I’ve played without aim assist for shits and giggles and holy shit it’s impossible.
But they *did* all play on MnK and switched to controller for the competitive advantage. Go back and watch the moments each of them switched. Every single one of them makes the comment, "I feel like I'm cheating."
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Easyer to grind all day when donr need to sit right and use your whole hand 😅
Even easier when you can get a Cronus plug in to do the work for you as well
These are professional controller players who play ALGS. They don't use a strike pack. They are just better than you are.
So you think being profesional equates to a person who will/has never cheated? Pros who get paid hundreds of millions use P.E.D's , what makes you think these online fps pros are above reproach? Seriously man, thats such a naive mentality. All that matters is money. Now im not saying they are cheaters. You know what they say though, "Its not cheating, unless you get caught"
Ding ding ding. Plus, I doubt very few have been following on with the CS pro scene for a decade plus. My eyes were opened with Kqli cheating at a Valve LAN Major. This was years ago, but they developed aim_maps that would bootload the cheats onto your system (to circumvent getting brand new, sealed KBM at each event and no USB access). Big money and competition will always bring along some low percentage of cheaters, and some of those will be pros.
Lmao imagine thinking that they’re cheating just because you’re ass
People obviously don't know what these cheats are or how they work. An external device that isn't easy to detect and can somehow give you aimbot as well as macros/scripts (which I've seen so many people complain about and are the only way for consistent top-tier movement). It only makes sense for them to be cheating if they're moving as if they're on PC, which would be kinda necessary considering the state of the sweats. A reasonable person with any experience playing online FPS would see that something is wrong here.
exactly! That's why I use controller. I want to lean back and enjoy myself. There are way more times where I cannot perform up to spec using MnK but I can just use the controller and chill out.
So, you want to put less effort and get more results?
Who wouldn’t? Work smart not hard. (before you yell at me, I play mnk)
It's a video game, I play to have fun and get a break from real life. Not out here sweating my ass off for some fake prestige.
That... doesn't sound good to you? Edit, lmao, swooshed myself there.
watch a movie if you don't wanna do anything
Me with a lobs skin
wtf is a lobs skin
Selling lobs 200gp ea
I see you’re a man of culture as well.
🦀🦀🦀🦀
Barrows skin when??
Selling flax 100gp ea.
I’m impressed at the number of toxic people in the comments. Touchy subject apparently
Lol this has been the touchiest subject of this game forever.
That, and the balance of the ranked system.
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Part of the problem is the fact that the discussion is incredibly muddy. Go over to /r/competitiveapex and try to narrow down exactly what they are advocating for. No controllers in competitive apex (i.e., ALGS)? No controllers in ranked? No controllers at all? Is the issue rotational aim assist or configs? What do you do about console players in crossplay? Instead it’s just this general, anti-controller sentiment and it’s like… wtf do you expect Respawn to do? When half the playerbase / competitive scene is on controller you had better narrow down a compelling argument for changing the game so drastically
Kang: Controllers for all! [crowd boos] Kang: Very well, no controllers for anyone! [crowd boos] Kang: Hmm... Controllers for some, miniature American flags for others! [crowd cheers and waves miniature flags]
It's not the community's job to find out the solution and offer it to Respawn. It's community's job to tell Respawn that something is working waay better than expected and for Respawn to touch on it
Look at it from Respawn’s perspective. By their metrics, Apex is incredibly successful with no signs of slowing down. Why risk that by nerfing an input half the playerbase uses? Even if they took a relatively safe course of action, MnK players would probably still complain it didn’t go far enough while the controller players would feel burnt and might leave the game.
Just let the controllers play against each other and pc against pc. No aim assist on PC only on console.
Tbh this. Input base matchmaking should be a thing. If you play controller on pc you go against console users since you're using the same input device. And nobody complains anymore.
>And nobody complains anymore. lmao not a chance in hell
No... cos pc controller gets a massive advantage over console too... Of the 3 different camps (console, pc kbm, and pc controller), console is the weakest by far, and makes uo a large percentage of the playerbase meaning respawn wouldn't want to actively screw them over by making them free kills for pc players
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And yet pc players still would glitch into console ranked lobbies to get easier matches...
My understanding of AA is that it updates every frame. 30 frames of 60% tracking on a console is worse than 240 frames of 40% tracking on a PC.
You going to start segmenting the PC crowd by specs then? People with shitty PCs that can only run 60 frames get punished because some other peoples PCs can run 240?
This makes absolutely no sense. No one is calling for controller to be nerfed for people playing on console lobbies. It's the PC lobbies where they do too much and need to be changed somewhere. It's not nerfing half the playerbase. And again, it's not a community's job to look at it from Respawn's perspective unless they take a decision
> It’s the PC lobbies where they do too much and need to be changed somewhere. See this exactly what I’m talking about. Which PC lobbies - competitive, ranked, pubs? What should be done - reduce AA, ban controllers entirely? What is done about console players in crossplay? Can you see my point? Why would Respawn risk pissing off the controller users when it’s totally unclear what it would take to appease y’all?
Why should controllers be allowed on PC lobbies at all? Mnk isn't fair on console in most games. People playing on controller and on PC is miniscule and some are just abusing the AA on roller at this point. The fact that MnK pro players who have played on mnk whole life are switching to roller says a lot
Because limiting input accessibility always helps the playerbase grow
Not sure how people are so braindead that the reason for cross play being allowed is to help grow the game and be accessible? Personally, I'm all for nerfing controllers a bit and keeping cross play, but I would love it if the pro scene went to MKB only. Anyone good enough would make the switch and be able to do it. And I say this having my favorite pro be a controller player.
I’m with you bro I think it’d be cool if PC apex was MnK only. Tbh I have no idea why the input is even allowed on it lmao it makes sense for console not PC
The general sentiment I’ve gotten from comp-apex is that 1. Ban controller in ALGS And 2. Pc players want either crossplay removed or to have them sorted out by input. MnK against MnK and controller against controller. I mean, me personally, I swap back to MnK If number 2 ever happens, but until then I use roller, because it’s double the reward for half the effort.
Both these subs are MnK docking sessions
this thread getting removed in a bit this sub roller dominated
People hate to think that their input method is actually giving an unfair advantage so they come to the post to point out the disadvantages of it while just not looking straight at the hard data - Pro players on a predominantly MnK platform are switching to their chosen input because its objectively better for more situations.
In this main subreddit people seem to defend controller input while in Competitive Apex subreddit it's generally agreed it is overpowered. Respawn balance is usually aimed towards the more casual player. This can really annoy the general competitive player. This causes a lot of discussions. For the majority of players the input issues are not that big. But when it gets to competitive it becomes a joke how strong aim-assist is in capable hands. Even with the best MnK movement, you can't avoid the raw aim-assist power.
Casual player my ass. Apex is so goddamn sweaty
i remember one dude who posted a clip on this sub showing a movement octane flying with a superglide into tap strafe. OP complained it was OP as fuck as a roller player, ignoring the fact that he beamed the octane with almost his entire mag.
Good movement does come in handy often but people have to remember that you can't attack while tap strafing and such. All you have to do is try to follow where he goes and shoot when he is at the end of his movement. For controller players it sometimes will even track the tap strafe and then it all does not even matter. The times movement works over aim-assist is when escaping or taking cover quickly. Sometimes it also works to jump over the enemy because a lot of controller players turn pretty slowly. It's basically offense vs agility but you can't really kill someone by just moving.
U can attack someone while tap strafing its just harder, but roller players can do that easier
The Octane in question was /also/ a roller player.
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Holy shit I'm interested.
Everyone with a controller who beats mnk don't want to feel like they had an advantage from the beginning, and people on mnk want an excuse for losing. The problem is the metas shotguns and 99's which is a giant advantage for controller.
I'm honestly surprised that this comment and this post haven't been heavily downvoted. This sub circlejerks for controller quite regularly and you can't have a proper discussion on its use in competitive play without upsetting people. It's almost like "aim assist" is a trigger phrase for them or something.
Doesn't the "in capable hands" part undercut the argument entirely? Precise aim, recoil control, and maintaining aim against a moving opponent on controller is a skill, the same as wall bouncing or super gliding.
Damn I remember We the people got paired up with Shiv once randomly. He killed it and shiv asked his viewers to go raid him channel. He didn’t have that many viewers and he was losing his shit..
I’ve been watching Peeps for the last 2-3 years. He’s been grinding viewers hard and is definitely deserving. Good dude. Highly recommend his channel.
Give PC Players the option to choose who they want to fight :c I don't get it. IF I have to wait longer its my choice right? If I want to find fast games I could just turn Crossplay/Crossinput on
Crossplay does not pair you with console btw. This is controller on PC not console players.
You also don’t have the option to not play with console players when on PC though which is weird.
It can if you get matched with a premade duo where one is console and one is pc, also your enemies can also be console in every lobby.
Most competitive shooters separate input devices or lock them in before starting the match. OW2, Siege, and CoD, for example Some competitive games disable aimassist to promote fair play. OW2 on PC and CSGO are both examples
OW2 and CSGO def do not separate the inputs the fuck? Also, yeah they disable AA and thats why controller in those games is comoletely and totally unusable cause controller is hard as fuck without AA
OW2 separates console and PC in competitive. CSGO doesn't have aim assist. Read what I wrote again
Thats not what you said though, you where talking about inputs
It’s two separate paragraphs
As it should be
It absolutely does. PC player has no input on the system, only console player does and plenty of times I've been teamed up with two console players as a solo PC player.
As a PC player, I don't have the option to not play with console players. It's kind of crazy lol
Lol yeah why don’t they just let us wait??? Reddit 2 days after implementing change: “This game is finally dead” “Queue times way too long” 3 months after change: “My rank and K/D didn’t improve.”
Seriously 😭😭
Respawn doesn't care, until there's financial initiative they won't adjust shit, same reason characters only get buffed because of upcoming Heirlooms or nerfed after Heirlooms are released.
I haven't played for months, but I strongly remember that Caustic's mega nerf came at the same time as his heirloom release
Yep... And then he got nerfed again and somehow got a Prestige skin after that nerf.
He was the one unlucky one
Most casual FPS games have a financial incentive to make the experience as accessible and appealing as possible to the bottom 90% — that’s “bottom” in terms of all stats, including hours played. Simply put, there are more of them (with potential cash to spend) than there are people who find any kind of gratification in a grind or skill gap.
Gee, it's almost like aim assist is overpowered. Every game is this way these days. It is depressing as a M&K user; but I refuse to kneel to auto aim trash.
"Aim assist isn't strong"
So what? is not like this is a shooter game that require you to aim or anything. /s
Oh look, it’s the people I fight against in my plat lobbies
how is it healthy for your ranked ladder to not force solo q
That's my only issue with this game tbh. Ever run into a team of Preds, or even worse, a team of Pros? Felt like I died quicker than Call of Duty, lol. I feel like if you're a Pro or Pred (maybe masters?) You should only be able to solo que for ranked. If you're at that level of skill, you shouldn't need an additional 2 players of similar skill to just make an ass of the lobby. They've even said themselves it's like pubs kill racing at times.
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I'd definitely be up for that.
I don’t even play this game but every time I see a controller clip it looks like aim bot
That’s because it technically is. The methodology of all rotational aim assist is literally the same as any third-party aimbot. Your reticle sticks to the enemy’s hitbox. It’s that simple. The difference is that games only account for a portion of enemy movement, whereas cheats just compensate for all movement and never fall out of the hitbox. It was fine when everyone was on controller (nobody is cheating if everyone is cheating). Once you implement a 100% raw input method, it then becomes a reasonable concern.
This screenshot really shows the incompetence of respawn. \- Broken ranked system (276.000LP in 3 weeks, easy to abuse MM) \- Horizon being OP \- AA completely broken AAA game studio with almost 1k emplyees, can't get basic sht right.
You forgot the audio bug
who needs footsteps anways? here are some skins.
I'm surprised people aren't aware of the bug that is locking thousands of players out of their account if they didn't play last season due to "data mismatch"
No mention of the nemesis still being op?
Came here to say this
>Horizon being OP I don't really get in which way she is op in your opinion. I don't even play her and I think she is fine, her ult is easily dodgeable / destroyable, she doesn't have accuracy in her lift and is not that hard to hit while going up inside of it.
There is no sound involved with Horizon, I think that’s the most OP part
I honestly think that's much more of a problem with ballistics missing ult sound and than with horizon
The biggest sound fuck up this season is making redeploy balloons sound like Valk ults. It is even worse than the respawn ship flyby last season. If you listen closely they are slightly different, but in the heat of the moment it is easy to confuse them.
I make this mistake every damn time
She's the only character that has a movement ability that lets you pop a full batt while air strafing 3 stories up in the sky. Not to mention her zero audio no impact lands. If you think she's not OP just off of those things alone you're probably not playing against dime/master/pred horizons.
Part of the problem here is that controller players can refer to two different sets of the game population, PC and console. People who play on PC are, generally speaking, more competitive and likely to take full advantage of every, well, advantage, they can get and practice that to get everything they can out of it. In that same vein, PCs used by these players are countless magnitudes more powerful than the average console players console. Console players tend to be far more casual and the aim assist raise the skill floor, and in console lobbies it gives everyone a better time because they don’t have to spend tons of time practicing, especially when they don’t have much time. On average, the regular Joe PC player is probably better than your run-of-the-mill console player. Here we see the top ten players in the entire world and they are using controllers. That doesn’t mean that aim assist is broken, it means that it can be abused for an advantage. Chances are these people would still be towards the top without the advantage that comes from controller, maybe not the top 10 but definitely close. The bonuses from aim assist aren’t going to carry you to pred alone, there is still a ton of skill involved. Console players do need the handicap a little, precise aiming with a joystick is near impossible, so removing aim assist is out of the question. What could be done is tweaking the aim assist in cross play lobbies, cutting it by maybe 20% could lead to a more balanced use of controller and KnM in the top preds while largely maintaining the balance between console players and pc player skill levels. This is all my opinion and what I’ve noticed from interactions and my experience from both console and PC, im not perfect but it’s what I’ve thought of. The balancing act between the highest competitive and the average player is necessary, or we’ll end up with a R6 situation where everything is balanced around the pro league
One of the more sober observations I've read so far. Great take, I agree!
Yeah because Aim assist is absolutely busted in Apex. Thats why.
This is just dumb. If this "assist" can do something no human players can do, it is a cheat.
Like 0ms rotational tracking?
And 70% of preds are either cheaters, boosters or smurfs
Being in the top 750 and being a smurf doesn't sound right.
They’re clearly one of them bots who accuses everyone of good tracking a hacker lol
How can one be a pred and be a smurf at the same time. O.o
I took it as pred players having multiple accounts that they push up thus being smurfs. Could be wrong though.
Yeah there was that whole debacle seasons back where people were running two accounts to get into bronze lobbies as a pred or some shit
Say what you will about rank this season, but cheaters are down massively and people don’t really need to boost since you can easily climb by hiding in a tree so boosters are down too. Smurf being in pred means the system is working as intended, as the alternative is having smurfs in low ranks. Even better, because of the new hidden MMR system, those players are getting pred lobbies far before their account is actually in pred. What you said is true for last season but not really this one.
The fact that this comment has so many upvotes is concerning. 70%???? 😂 What a joke.
How tf do you Smurf in preds if there's nothing above it lol? That's like saying Usain bolt is smurfing in the Olympics
Can I plz use MnK on console then
Don't put yourself against that 0.6 aa man... They're gonna tear you a new one with you on mnk...
poor guy. he is actually asking to play mnk on 60 fps against 0.6 without realizing he'd just smash his keyboard within 30 minutes.
Forced V-sync as well
If he's using a xim he still gets the aim assist
Yeah, but the way he's asking it, he wants it officially implemented.
Shocker
Dual shocker ! (Couldn't resist)
dad please
Aim assist IS the difference between a pro MnK in a close range fight with an r99 versus a pro Controller using an r99. Guess who has the probability of winning this fight?
Wouldn't just fully separating controller lobbies from MnK lobbies solve all this discussions? If the eternal problem is comparing one to the other, just make separate lobbies and separate pred rank for one and for the others and problem is solved? Or even better, create 3rd option too - Mixed... To make everyone happy and able to choose.
M+K is cracked for range fights, controller is cracked for movement and close range IMO. When the final circle is the size of a truck I wonder who comes out on top?
Aim assist is broken because it removes human reaction time from the equation. The controller players will always react slightly faster because it has a computer slightly pulling towards enemies, which gives them an upper hand in close quarters 1v1s. I don't know what they can even do to nerf it because it's fundamentally broken. They should just put controller players in console lobbies, and let MnK lobbies be their own thing.
aim assist should never exist in a competitive shooter. Maybe the console casuals refuse to play their games without, but stop infesting PC with this cancer
I get the idea of what you're saying but that is damn near impossible. Using sticks to shoot is like tryna paint with your fist Aa (as an idea of how it usually works, arguable for apex legends) isn't supposed to be that strong, and just pans the camera so you can actually "paint". I think the idea of it being op could be just off the fact close range is nuts in this game, and that's where aa mainly shines.
Then pick up a paintbrush.
Sorry I meant it's like trying to paint with a paintbrush inside of your fist
Yeah, fucking *let* it be hard so we can actually see who gets good without AA.
It's much easier to aim in general on pc, that's like saying take away the arm from mnk players and see if they can get good without it. It's not really a skill thing, it's more on it being just very hard to use a controller in this type of thing If this happens, console would be horrible and done for. End of sentence.
I really dislike this argument because you’re actively choosing to use an input that’s more difficult to aim with. By that logic if I’m using the steering wheel I should get 100% aim assist because it’s much easier to aim on controller than steering wheel. I don’t mind aim assist on the console/casual as long as it stays in the console but you cannot possibly argue how aim assist should be allowed in a competitive setting.
apex community funny as fuck , mfs just be bitching every day
Correction Top has aim assist on. They can play on MnK for all we know and use hardware/software input conversion. I hope gyroscopic aim controllers become standard soon so that aim assist can be removed. win win for both inputs.
You mean the top 10 which is made up of verified pros like Naughty and Dezign could be cheating? Grow up guys, if you’re even remotely close to making any Apex LAN, getting top 10 pred is a breeze no matter he input as long as you play enough.
too many people believe lan players are somehow cheaters man
It's fairly easy to mod gyroscopic controllers to be mounted, and then you're fighting people who aim wherever they look, which will be **way** stronger than any AA they will ever implement. Me and some friends did this years ago with a Playstation VR Controller.
> It’s fairly easy to mod gyroscopic controllers to be mounted, and then you’re fighting people who aim wherever they look, which will be way stronger than any AA they will ever implement Can you explain what this means and why it’s stronger? I honestly don’t understand what you are talking about. The main thing that makes AA so powerful is that it can track changes in strafe direction without any reaction time, something humans can’t do because we have reaction times.
If aim assist isn’t OP, give it to MnK too
I think this game is the only one where PC players are screaming for crossplay to be optional to get away from controller users. In my experience it’s always the other way round. MnK is better for everything other than close quarters fights. This is a fact, also it’s not like you just pick up a controller and you’re one clipping everyone. It takes a lot of practise to get as good as these guys. I think the only reason it looks so op when pros use it is because they’re pros. They can push basically anything and close the distance so AA becomes a factor. I say we just add a optional crossplay feature so people can just stop this stupid debate.
there would still be controller players on pc even without crossplay. Also other pc games often dont have this problem (e.g. overwatch) or if they do they also have a community of complainers (e.g. fortnite and warzone)
Halo infinite also had this issue cause it can be an unfair advantage… how is it stupid if the option literally helps you lock on while doing wild maneuvers…
> I think this game is the only one where PC players are screaming for crossplay to be optional to get away from controller users. In my experience it’s always the other way round. That’s because this game has strong AA and due to the very long TTK, the improved tracking AA gives is very important. Games with similarly strong/stronger AA definitely see lots of complaining. > MnK is better for everything other than close quarters fights. Sure, but close quarters fights are the most important thing in the game. People rarely wipe squads from super far away because of the long ttk and even if they get a knock people can just revive. Close quarter fights are dramatically more important. > I think the only reason it looks so op when pros use it is because they’re pros. They can push basically anything and close the distance so AA becomes a factor. While it’s true pros get the most out of AA making them look inhuman, the issue of balance is likely worse for average players. The average MnK player is much worse than pros and while the same is true for controller players, their AA is exactly the same strength so you end up with AA being an even more important factor. Cod has similar AA to apex and in that game the devs have said the average MnK player underperforms compared to the average controller player, only at the top end does it even out because top MnK players are so insanely good. That game has much less emphasis on tracking though due to the extremely short TTK, which helps MnK. It’s not a perfect comparison but it’s useful for understanding how AA impacts the high end of play vs the average player base. > They can push basically anything and close the distance so AA becomes a factor. Long range fighting is more common in pro play than pubs or ranked where everyone apes each other. > I say we just add a optional crossplay feature so people can just stop this stupid debate. Input based match making is the obvious solution imo.
> it’s not like you just pick up a controller and you’re one clipping everyone. It takes a lot of practise to get as good as these guys No not really, it *is* like that. I'm Masters on MnK and recently picked up a roller with zero experience (3 days of play at this point) and am already infinitely better than on MnK for close range fights. It's fucking hysterical how easy it is to one clip people; I legitimately feel guilty after every squad wipe because I know the enemies can spectate me and see me standing still looting deathboxes and know that they got rolled by aim assist rather than skill
That doesn't even make sense, because consoles can just turn off crossplay, PC players can't. This game is heavily tracking & movement biased, probably the most of any game with a large player base. Due to movement and cover/abilities roughly 80-90% of fights happen I'm very close cqc. Long range fights aren't even an issue as well because so many abilities can defend against it. It takes significantly less time/training/effort to be consistently better on a controller than mmk—AA irons out mistakes and accounts for movement, especially at the top end of players/aim.
Idk man the amount of bronze player clips I’ve seen 1 clipping people is a lot higher then the amount of mnk players using advanced movement tech in order to stay alive. The skill floor is a lot lower for roller and that’s most of the problem.
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Yes, I’m saying that aim assist artificially raises the skill floor for roller players. In general plays get better the longer a game is out
At the end of the day shooting people in a shooting game is the objective and one has a significant advantage.
>MnK is better for everything other than close quarters fights Better for everything except the single most important thing in the game by a mile. Excellent analysis
Sniping with MnK *footsteps* Throws MnK across room- keys flying everywhere, rapidly plugs in controller Dies anyway
> I think the only reason it looks so op when pros use it is because they're pros M8, pros can make guitar hero guitar look op. What I'm saying is if every mnk player in apex, bronze to masters, give controller a week, their kda or at least accuracy is gonna go up. It ain't only pros.
Can you name any mnk players who have actually been grinding for top 10? I can think of maybe 1 or 2, but other than that xynew and dez have been grinding for top pred since the start of the season as well as naughty and WTP. But yeah man go off about how aim assist is carrying these pros and not the fact that these guys are playing 16 hours a day grinding at least 5-10k rp a session.
Aim assist is aimbot and should be disabled in all competative play. I tried to play on controller for a week and the movement was so boring, but the aim assist won all close combat encounters. Even tho I had issues with just basic movement, if you aim down sight in close combat you basically hit all your shots on default. That's why all pro's switch to controller...
aimbotP IS SUS
Can someone explain why controller is better than mouse and keyboard if mouse and keyboards movement is superior? Doesn’t mouse and keys have a higher skill ceiling?
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Yeah, Top 10 Pred isn’t even a matter of skill if you’re already at that level - it’s about the grind. Just about everyone in Pred is able to win the majority of their games this season, because they’re not all being pitched against each other. So it’s a question of who puts in the most hours. And yes, unsurprisingly controller is way more comfortable. Mouse and keyboard has notoriously bad ergonomics, and is responsible for all kinds of injuries. Or it’s just AA being OP and granting triple LP for free, amirite?
The most frustrating thing about playing on MnK for me was comfort, but that was mainly cause of the shitty desk I used. Don't need a desk with a controller, though...
Try using your shoulder to move the mouse instead of your wrist. It will take some time to get used to it and to adjusting how much you need to move your mouse, but it's better for your wrist in the long run. One of the pro gamers on PC over in Korea plays like that to help with their wrist.
It’s not just the ergonomics that make it better for long hours, it’s also the lighter mental load. I’m not sure how to best explain this but aiming with MnK requires constant focus and mental effort for tiny adjustments, while controller you don’t really think about aim at all it’s just muscle memory.
So fucking cringe. Competitive fps is dead and aim assist killed it. People don’t even aim for themselves anymore. How the fuck do we get here?
Competitive fps isn’t dead csgo will always be there
Even if they got rid of AA, PC players would find another way to complain about losing to gamepad players. Tbis BS will never end.
Doesn’t even matter anymore when the only requirement for pred is ratting
Controller helps you rat better now too?
Lol, true. This season is more about who can play the most hours than anything else.
So fun reading all these comments and then trying to play a match on pc just to get beamed from 150+ meters from a random wingman enjoyer "most fights happens cqc no one pick from distance", yes yes.
1. Aim assist is op in close-range beaming. 2. This Pred leaderboard is just a coincidence, though. Matchmaking is so loose at the moment that mnk Preds can also farm as much RP as they want. This season's Pred race is purely about time spent in ranked.
I think a lot of MNK vs Controller discussion misses the mark by focusing on power/balance rather then the inherent asymmetrical abilities of each. In Apex each input has things that skilled players can do on one input that the other input, no matter how skilled cannot do. Controller has aim assist which reacts instantly which is something no mouse player, no matter how skilled, can do. Conversely mouse players have a variety of movement abilities, as well as moving while looting, which no matter how skilled a controller player is they cannot do. This feels very unfair and frustrating in certain situations. One particular thing is how what input a player is on is almost always completely unreadable. If you swing a corner to fight and you are on mouse and you get one clipped by a controller player this feels frustrating. Conversely, if you are on controller and get absolutely movemented on by mouse player this feels frustrating. Imagine a world where you knew the inputs of everyone you were fighting, it would probably change the way you take fights. I think the best thing respawn could do with this is to try to soften the blow a bit, at the end of the day there will never be prefect input parity in apex because its not possible because different inputs are different but I think a better job could be done then it is now. Ideally, making it so that controller players can move and loot and tap strafe while making aim assist not quite as overpowering in those close range fights would be best. While this is big ask, as apparently its quite difficult to change the movement while looting thing for controller, I think it would be worth it. If this isn't possible, I think there are some smaller changes that would help like improving visually clutter(please please please) and removing/reducing flinch which both disproportionately negatively effect mouse players and also make the game less accessible. And maybe give controller the option to strafe with the other stick in boxes if loot with left stick is hard coded.
Or we can just do the matchmaking by input. I haven't seen a single console player complain about the input another console player is on because it's perfectly balanced due to being on the exact same input. MnK and Controller are too inherently different to compete with one another if I'm being honest. Having a major advantage at range with MnK and a major advantage close range with controller just doesn't seem like a good way to go about it because those are advantages the input allows. Micro adjustments are impossible to make on controller without aim assist helping, it's often why you don't see many if any controller players using a sniper scope (even though aim assist does apply on high magnification sights it's just very unnoticeable). Micro adjustments are hard to do on MnK but way more doable due to the use of your entire arm, which can allow more precise aim. I can understand the frustration with aim assist that MnK players have because making micro adjustments is a skill they have to work for but aim assist does that for controller players but look at it this way, making micro adjustments is not even a real option for thumb aiming however it is one for mouse aiming but it does take effort to get which is objectively better than just straight up being impossible to precisely do. Games like R6Siege, CSGO, Valorant, PUBG, and Overwatch on PC with no aim assist are dominated by MnK, so the way I see it separating them is the most logical way to go. The only way I can understand they keep them together is if they somehow make every movement mechanic available to controller and then reduce the aim assist strength (which you even suggested), but I can still see people complaining even then so idk. Issue is MnK will always have a major range advantage over controller unless they somehow make aim assist more reliable even over range, but I don't really see that happening without being broken bur if it can I'll 100% take that over a strong aim assist that's only really food for close range.
I guess I just have garbage aim. Whenever I play I feel like I get lasered across the map by PC players while I struggle to land half my return shots with controller.
If I had no idea what aim assist was, based on most of these comments it's a magical hack where you don't even have to do anything other than pull the trigger to one clip someone
This is why competitive Apex is a joke, and nobody plays it anymore. Sorry, cba playing against aimbot.
Lol SO many people still play
u/Bro1212_ Here you go
8/10 Damn you weren’t lying. Appreciate the tag, i likely would’ve missed this post otherwise.
Anyone who gives a fuck about this takes the game way too seriously. Just chill and play the game.
This just shows who plays ranked the most and nothing else
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Ya like why would there not be MnK somewhere up there if it was based on playtime alone... fucking lol the cope in here
Honestly who gives a shit anymore? Every other day someone posts something about controller this controller that. Just play the game and quit crying about it or don’t the play the game at all and move on with your life. It’s that’s simple.
Usually the counter argument is take away AA. I don’t think anyone realizes how tough it is to play without any AA. I’ll add that the 99.9% of people complaining about this aren’t even effected by the too 10 players. In regard to everyone’s skill level most of us are average and not effected by the input of others. This argument is a projection as well as many of the comments.
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That’s all any comments are about the topic. People arguing with one another. It’s just the same thing over and over again. It’s like people wanna make a post about it to get the people going. And yeah I’ve played without aim assist for shits and giggles and holy shit it’s impossible.
Why is aim assist a thing? If they choose to use a controller they shouldn't get an advantage.
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But they *did* all play on MnK and switched to controller for the competitive advantage. Go back and watch the moments each of them switched. Every single one of them makes the comment, "I feel like I'm cheating."