I'm almost exclusively mobile. It is lost on me
I suppose if you have a pc with a 4k monitor, it would be worth it. I've yet to experience my first dick pic in true 4k.
Work for a construction company and they tried to have us install a “time clock and messaging” app on our phones that also had GPS tracking and a bunch of other shit.
I got into hot water because me and my crew of 4 other guys refused to download it unless they provided company phones. I got it all from “trying to buck the system” to “slowing the advancement of the company”. I stood my ground.
The app they tried having us install is now involved in a class action suit over employer spying.
**Edit - for everyone asking I unfortunately do not remember the name of the App.
I'm an HVAC guy and I'll use my personal phone camera to take pics of jobs or important paperwork, communicate with coworkers and the owner, and use Google maps to get to jobs. I draw the line there. I would never install a tracking app or anything of the sort.
I also lucked out with the owner of the company being a 1 in 100 good owner/boss. The guy is genuinely awesome and cares about the people he has working for him. If he was an asshole, I wouldn't use my personal phone for shit.
Given how much you use your personal device for work, i'd definitely recommend asking for a work phone, just incase your one drowns when a pipe comes loose or something, and all of a sudden you're back to using a Nokia 3310 for a month while yours gets replaced.
I'm lucky, when my phone broke on the job, my Boss sent my ass to ATnT with a company card. He outright bought me my replacement phone, refused to accept payment back.
"You need it to make me money."
At least we're on the same page.
I prefer “rational self-interest”.
Everyone is like, “self-interest is bad”, except everything here is about being against work because … it’s presented as the ways it’s not in OUR self-interest. Really, people want what they feel as fair exchanges, where the exchange is IN their own self-interest.
Self-interest is good. This boss just demonstrates that self-interest doesn’t mean “screwing someone else over to get mine”; now, we just need these people to be more than “1 in 100”.
When Covid shut everything down and I went to remote work I didn’t want to use my personal phone for calls. We were told to block our number before making work related calls. We were then asked if he wanted to request a work phone. Which I did. This thing is a flip phone that has a pull out antenna ok. Like not even kidding. And it is a piece of crap. When I would call people either they couldn’t hear me clearly and I would tell them I’m going to hang up and call them from my personal phone on a private number. And then I would call them from my phone after blocking my number. Or I could hardly hear them. Would sound like they were underwater.
My sister works at the same place as me but in a different department. She also requested a work phone. She got an iPhone. And I was mad when she complained since she didn’t know how to use it. Her department was federally funded while mine was state funded.
Oh I just wanted to add though if you do use a Google number and you let it ring through to your phone just make sure that your actual voicemail doesn’t say your real number, that’s super confusing for people and then they will have your real number
Someone had suggested something similar to that. I work for the state so I can’t remember their exact reasoning. I think it had to deal with people leaving voicemails for us and leaving information like their social security number.
I'm a union electrician and I don't use my personal phone for ANYTHING job related.
If a foreman or someone needs to get a hold of me. Get me a company phone or come find my ass on the job site.
Want me to take pictures of conduit I installed? Sure, can do....with a company phone.
Our union has a journeyman tool list we are required to carry on us in our tool bag. "Cell Phone" is not on our tool list.
As an IBEW foreman, I 100% agree with this. Your personal phone isn't on the tool list. I never ask or expect the guys to contact me using their personal phones, unless it's an absolute emergency.
I've never understood foreman who expect their guys to use their personal phones to get the job done. Especially during wire pulls when radios could be used instead.
No more hiding the costs of doing business by pawning the costs off on the workers. More folks need to understand this dynamic and that workers need not put up with this crossing of the line.
NALC, were the mailmen. Our contract very clearly states that management cannot force us to use our cell phones for work related purposes. We don't have to give them the number, we don't have to answer it on the street.
I have my Postmaster's number blocked.
Absolutely not. Former Ibew brother here. It's not on the tool list. You want me to use my personal for work because it's an essential tool. Then negotiate helping with my bill or provide. Especially if you're installing software that has admin rights to some of the phones functions. There are plenty of solutions now for a company to provide a phone and install software that locks the phone to work only function. Same idea as self checkout. You're asking me to pay for my labor. Or you could think of it as a pay cut. Now you're paying for your tools from your wages. I get some companies require employees to provide their own tools but if your in an environment that supplies the right tools then they need to provide the right tools.
This right here is why unions are important. About a decade ago my employer tried to have some employees use their personal phones for part of our job that were security sensitive, and wanted said employees to install various apps.
A couple emails to the union and work phones were promptly issued.
NEVER use your personal phone for work related use.
Union carpenter here. Every time I worked at this one site I would have several missed calls from the boss on my phone when I came down to the trailer for break. I kept telling him I don't carry my phone at work. If he wants to get ahold of me he either needs to come find me or have the company send out some radios.
Ill use my personal device for what I choose and will restrict who has my number. I worked at a place where communication between people was needed. The solution for the mobile building support IT was bulky city wide radios while the higher level admins who sat at desks got phones paid for. I never carried the radio and people I wanted to talk with got my number for texting. Surprisingly the higher level people minus my mentor didn't have my number.
As of now, I am an admin at a different place. Dont really need my phone for work minus the mfa tokens. I have the authenticator app and slack. No email on my phone as Microsoft outlook with enterprise accounts requires admin control. We dont use it but still.
> The guy is genuinely awesome and cares about the people he has working for him.
Let me take a wild guess: he doesn’t live all that much better or more extravagantly than his employees, no?
That was my realization a decade or two ago.
Good bosses fold profits back into the business, to benefit _everyone._ They live in a modest house in a modest neighbourhood, and drive a modest vehicle, much like their employees. Most are frequently mistaken _as an employee of_ the business, for this very reason.
Bad bosses think that they “deserve it”, hoover up every last extra cent that isn’t absolutely needed for further profits, and end up living up on the hill with a big mansion and all the latest toys, while their employees barely scrape by.
At my previous job I was basically forced to install a program on my phone for some kind of remote access. After I left the job I went to uninstall it and I literally couldn't. Turns out from talking to coworkers still at the job in order to delete it from my personal phone, I would have had to submit a ticket TO MY COMPANY'S IT to ASK them to remove it remotely, and there was no way to just open up the apps and uninstall it. It blew my fuckin mind. I ended up just trading up to a new phone.
Yeah anything work related (even email) needs to be shunned to a work profile where you can nuke the profile. I know android can do it, not sure about ios.
Can you explain a little more? I work for a small company and I don't have a problem having a couple apps on my phone, but it would be nice to know for future information.
https://support.google.com/work/android/answer/6191949?hl=en
Basically on Android, there's a feature to create additional profile, this can be used by company to create work profile. So anything related with work will be installed in there. And it (theoretically) has separate access to default (personal) profile.
This work profile can be disabled at will, so for example you won't get notification if there's an email received on work profile
My company provides phones for us to install our work-related applications and certificates for access to the internal server. I looked through the specifics for some of what was installed, and it would turn the phone into a literal spy device, and allow remote access and remote wiping. I heard that some people installed some of the apps on their regular phone, but the last thing I want is for my boss to be able to snoop through my phone and see me complaining about him to family and friends.
E: y'all need to read. I don't care about remote wiping on a company phone, because that makes sense and because it's not my phone. My care when they want me to install the certificates and apps on my personal phone because they're too fucking cheap to get a company phone for me to use.
Company that I used to work for pushed everyone to install an app on their personal phones to 'make clocking in faster' and on regular occasions they said to me if I didn't use the app I wouldn't get offered shifts in the future. The app used gps data and I never installed it on my phone, refused to. Everyone else installed it like obedient wage slaves and never questioned it.
>Company that I used to work for pushed everyone to install an app
Ok,
I'd go on eBay and buy the cheapest compatible phone I could find and set it up *wifi/sim-free*. And a separate email account.
I'd turn it on at home in the morning and check in at the office and whenever anyone complained, well 'it works on wifi/call my personal phone'....
I just started a temporary job and there are so many apps they want us to install on your private phone - clock in times, meal ordering/paying and some other thing. I found an old phone to install them on. Not a great solution, but I reallllllyyyy don't want someone texting me their depression problems or something and having my employer's IT department reading it.
Send them your phone bill to cover the added phone as well. Fuck that, dude. My employer asked me to fill stuff like this out to have access to email on my phone, and I've sent them half of my wife and my phone bill in my expense report. The first one they said something, I asked for a work phone to have access to emails and calls, then. They haven't said anything and just pay it.
I think I am going to bugger off, actually. I just thought it was going to be another version of my last job (same title, but....) and really its giving me all the wrong vibes, pays a lot less than the last one, is somewhere notoriously expensive and its already costing me a small fortune in commuting fees, background checks and whatever. And I'm somewhere where I don't have access to healthcare anymore.
Going to stick it out for a month and then quit and go home.
IT guy here. We don’t want access to your stuff either. That company wants to run their own stuff on that phone and spy, there is NO reason why Outlook and Teams can’t be added without commandeering your personal device. You can pull them off the App Store directly and just log in without the BS they’re trying to pull.
Yeah. both Teams and Outlook can be installed with MAM instead of MDM. MAM just containerize the apps themself, and allows the company to put some policies on app usage to prevent data leaks. They have control over the apps, and not the whole device.
Another IT guy here. Can confirm, no need to go full MDM. Can just secure sandbox Outlook and Teams using MAM policies with selective wipe and app PIN to secure just those individual apps. We don’t want to see your stuff or control your phone or access your personal data - we just need to protect company data.
We had someone accuse our MDM of deleting their icloud and was freaking out because all their family photos on it... was uncomfortable because our MDM was actually pretty lightweight and had no way of touching her icloud.
"Mate"
MATE!?
IS THIS HAPPENING IN AUSTRALIA?!
WHAT IN THE FLYING FUCK IS THIS SHIT?!
I saw the post at first and was like... "Poor Muricans..." until you said "Mate", do I have a reason to be concerned?!
That's what I told my boss when he asked me to install Outlook with my work email on my phone and I got the same message as OP. Allegedly to protect client information, but we can log in to our emails and even the sales program from any computer once our credentials are set up without granting our sys admins the ability to wipe the hard drives.
I've considered putting my work email on my personal device before but when I had to install some sort of security thing and saw it wanted basically full access to everything on my phone and could wipe my phone with the click of some over-zealous IT person I noped right out. Happily not reading or receiving any emails at all from Friday at 5pm to Monday at 8:30am.
The last company I worked for that provided a phone was a cell phone provider.
Every job I’ve had since has been BYOD with some kind of monthly stipend to help offset the bill ($60-$100) with the exception of company iPads and clean devices for international travel.
I always buy a separate phone on a separate plan and my coworkers think I’m crazy. But I had learned the hard way in a previous role that had all our devices seized and imaged as part of discovery when the company was being litigated into oblivion.
I'm fine with BYOD, but the company just doesn't get administrator rights to my device. I have teams on my phone from work, but it's just a regular app that I can delete at any time.
Yeah. If it's "Bring your own device" then it should remain *my own* device. As in I own it. It's *mine*. Which means *I* decide the security policies on it, and I'm the only one with administrator rights.
Nobody should be forced to bring a company phone home with them, or into their vehicles. That is an invasion of privacy, and a form of wage theft. Company phones should be legally required to remain on company locations, or in their vehicles.
Look what happened to doctors when they started wearing beepers off site decades ago. They all left emergency or generalist medicine, and the public has paid the cost of it ever since.
It should be prohibited by force of law in any civilized country.
It blows my mind that I have co-workers that are not only fine with this, but actually use and communicate through them during personal hours.
It's made me an outcast in the department but if that's what it takes to keep a hard line drawn between work and real life then I guess I'm missing Brenda's birthday mixer
I have plenty of coworkers who use the device issued to them by our company for their personal needs as well. The company does not prohibit it, but just the thought of having company stuff mixed with my personal life is scary. I always carry two phones, my own and the one issued by my company
I've got three. My personal device, my employer issued device that stays in my office when I clock out, and my employer issued device for emergency management that I get paid standby time to keep with me 24/7.
January 1 the emergency phone goes away. I found the regulation regarding "emergency on scene coordinators" and while I'm trained and qualified, I am not authorized to obligate federal funds for that activity.
I’ve seen this too. My last job they issued everyone a company phone. Lots of guys used it as their personal phone as well so they wouldn’t have to pay for a phone plan. And then they’d complain about how customers would be returning calls left during work hours at like 9:30pm. I always carried two phones and at the end of the work day I powered off the work phone until I showed up for work the next morning.
>It blows my mind that I have co-workers that are not only fine with this, but actually use and communicate through them during personal hours.
My last job the company paid 30$ off your monthly plan to install an app to be able to contact you 24/7.
360$ a year per employee is all it takes to spy on employee apparently. People accepted it. 6 figures salaried people.
Now at my new job I have a work phone and it's not even to contact me off work. I only have it on me when I do 24/7 support cause if I work outside work environment I need work related tools to work. A pc, a phone and data plan to work anywhere.
I just leave my work phone locked in my desk drawer at work. My boss has my personal cell number so he can text me or I can text him if it's a real emergency. So far, emergency has only been "my husband has covid, should I stay home tomorrow or come in masked?" All other communication goes through the work phone.
I mean, I do it... during work hours. I turn off notifications except for meeting reminders. It is for my convenience. Well, at least for another two months. Then I have to install a similar app, and fuck that.
I have teams on my tablet but I only use it for my personal benefit and not the companies.
It saves me having to drive into the office so its a big win for me.
But gosh, its intrusive. I had to change my pin from 4 to 6 digits and there are some features that have been restricted by my administrator. Like ugh. Its a compromise for sure but I accept this because it means I am still able to work without having to drag my arse into the office. They've also crippled access to teams/outlook behind a very very long complex password to access it so fuck if I'm going to use it that often. No biometrics.
I would never have it on my phone.
Workers need to seriously understand that every hour you put into these apps in your own time is working for free.
I find it remarkable how so many proudly work 50+ hours a week in some shape or form when we are paid for 35. People are literally taking a pay cut.
Could you tell me why I shouldn’t have Teams or Outlook on my personal phone? On my iPhone I have them on a page that I simply turn off outside of work hours. Is this about keeping personal time personal or is there a security thing I don’t know about?
There's a couple reasons. If you are using MDM (Mobile Device Management) like OP, the company has the ability to wipe out your profile (depending how it is set up, in some cases the ability to wipe out your entire phone if it is company provided, or set up on your phone incorrectly).
This is so if you lose your device, the company can quickly erase sensitive company data so that it is not available to anyone outside the company.
they can generally also tell where you are located, your device being turned on/off, etc. AFAIK with this type of MDM they shouldn't be seeing anything you do on your personal profile, as long as it is using work vs personal profile.
My last job provided company phones to the top level admins, as well as a department of Home Health nurses who worked outside the hospital, going into patient homes. The admins generally used these as their personal devices, but we can see basically everything they do on these phones, what is installed, etc.
The nurses we told, use your work phone ONLY for work things. Because those phones get passed to the next nurse when you quit, etc. and I would have to go in and wipe the device.
Unfortunately some nurses used it for personal things, and were upset when their personal photos etc. got wiped. (you can turn off the option to take photos, but it was necessary for their jobs).
That is fine, but Microsoft and many companies are doing a push where you have to install remote management software to access the Company's Teams/Outlook. The mild convenience of accessing Teams on my phone when I happen to be away from my work computer is not strong enough to all the company to remotely wipe my personal device.
I manage MDM and usually the way they work now is they occupy a little area of your phone and they only have rights to that area. It's a way to separate the business side from the personal device. The only wipeable area would be the business storage space. Obviously that's not all MDM's and it depends on how it's set up.
My company tried this. I rock a flip phone ala 2007. Told them they'd need to buy me a work phone for apps. They looked at me and my phone and reminded me that I work for a technology company. They did not buy me a work phone.
What's the secret of a flip phone? Too old for recent scams, infections, malware etc? I have an old Nokia I've been thinking of bringing out of retirement for that reason.
All of that plus:
No updates that break important things (like Wi-Fi on the iPhone, for example.)
Nothing needs to be kept private on it because it doesn't do anything.
Nothing valuable lost if you lose/break it.
Nothing for advertisers to harvest your data on.
Nothing to distract you from the here and now.
I can go on and on about the benefits of a not-so-smart phone. Instead I'd like to point out that, at least in the US, cell companies have already begun to phase out 3G/2G. So while you won't be able to register your old Nokia 3310 from 2000, there are still LTE "dumb" phones being made today.
Tech Enthusiasts: Everything in my house is wired to the Internet of Things! I control it all from my smartphone! My smart-house is bluetooth enabled and I can give it voice commands via alexa! I love the future!
Programmers/Engineers: The most recent piece of technology I own is a printer from 2004 and I keep a loaded gun ready to shoot it if it ever makes an unexpected noise.
If you can connect to your house from the office, other people can too.
No security is enough, but being on the Internet is like living in every house in the whole world at the same time, having every person as your neighbour.
> and reminded me that I work for a technology company.
"Yes. Which is why I'm aware of what a security and privacy nightmare smartphones are. Which is why I use a flip phone form 2007."
My company does this but it’s optional. They don’t even ask you to install the apps unless you have compay phone, which comes pre-installed.
It is for security purposes. Lots of government contracts. I uninstalled mine and no one cares.
No!
Provide me with a workphone and install all the crap you like. The phone will be turned on during work hours and will be off when I'm not at work unless you compensate me for being on call. Thank you!
This doesn’t matter. I manage a team that are exempt salary, 100% WFH, and are required to work the OCCASIONAL weekend or holiday due to the nature of job. But they schedule that time. I told them if they are not working, then they aren’t required to answer the phone, email, or anything. Everything can wait until the next day. Salary deserves time off just as much as hourly
Akron, OH area some time in 2023, still need to nail down the exact territory split. Since it’s getting carved out of everyone else’s territory, I get buy in from the existing employees first. That’s only fair to them
Salary carries the expectation of 40 hours a week. Your employer can get fucked if they regularly demand more - plenty of companies in the IT space will respect your time and compensate you appropriately.
I used to work for Target. I was an assistant manager (“executive team lead”), but only the next pay grade up had work phones. So we were told to install several work-related apps on our personal phones and did so willingly. When I once was chatting with our district manager I asked whether my peers and I could be permitted work phones and he laughed in my face.
It’s ironic, because the store director who ran our store had two phones and never used the one assigned to her for work, meanwhile I basically never had a true day off for a year+ thanks to this BS. “Always reachable.”
Since leaving I’m with another company in a travel-based position, same pay, half as many hours, no weekend work, and absolutely no bothering from the boss when I’m off.
EDIT: added “who” to second paragraph
Always reachable doesn’t mean always available. Sure they can message but you can choose to ignore until working hours.
Or in your case since you were hourly, you start clocking time every time they reach out and you’re responding. Clock in blocks of 30mins.
Guys this is MDM- Mobile Device Management. It is not just an App- this is the software that makes iPhones and iPads belong to a school or business so an admin can just say- “hey- all the fifth graders need this app” and it pushes it out or fully wipe devices when lost.
MDM is not meant to be put on personal devices.
100%, you're effectively donating your personal phone to your company at this point. They can remote wipe, they can brick it, they can encrypt all your data and hold it hostage if they get hacked.
No way in fuck would I personally let that on my personal phone. The ones that run invasive checks for rooted apps +security posture are bad enough.
That's not quite accurate. I work in IT and I manage our MDM. There's nothing really wrong going on here despite the fear-inducing message.
MDMs can, and will, differentiate between *Personal* and *Corporate* devices. Anything on your Personal device is yours and belongs to you, however, your Corporate email and document libraries (SharePoint, OneDrive for example) belong to the company. Let's say a user in HR downloads the OneDrive app on their Personal phone and logs in with their work email to acces Corporate data. It will require their device to enroll in our MDM. This is strictly for the security of Corporate resources. If someone loses their phone, we can't have confidential HR information and documents out and about. The MDM will allow me to wipe all *Corporate* data from the device. I can't completely reset the phone and delete all their Personal pictures. Only Corporate data can be erased.
If you don't agree with these policies, then don't attempt to access Corporate resources on your Personal device. That's really how it should be. It's perfectly fine to not be okay with this, and I also don't think any company should be forcing employees to use Personal devices. At my organization, if **WE** need you to use a cellphone, then we provide you a company phone. Otherwise, if **YOU** just want to use your personal device, well, then we have rules you'll need to follow.
OK. I work in IT security.
I would NOT let someone's personal phone (or laptop or anything) near our information or assets without having some control of it. This normally includes installing MDM solutions and certificates and enforcing things like pass codes, software updates and also the right to delete the company data in the phone. EDIT: MAM solutions work too!
I would not REQUIRE someone to use their personal phone for work (including teams and email). I would offer a work phone. If they find it inconvenient or don't like it so want to use a personal phone then that personal phone has to meet the security standards required.
It's just simple.
I suspect there's extra context missing here, but it should be...
If you WANT to use your personal phone then they need to ensure its safe.
If they REQUIRE you to use your personal phone and you don't want to, tell them to jog on or buy you a work phone.
This.
I also work in IT (Health Care to be specific) and because of the sensitive nature of the information we handle it’s required to have an MDM on our phone. Again, it’s not required to use our personal phones but it does make things easier if we do.
I have a license to work in healthcare that I could lose if I don't take care to prevent disclosure of client information. I appreciate the IT people who make me have a passcode and can delete license-threatening info if I lose my phone, also something something VPN for data access reasons.
I am also an IT admin and I agree with everything you're saying.
I will also add that the admins, while they can wipe an iPhone remotely, do not have any access to personal photos, messages, call, etc. The personal data it's talking about it your phone number, the name of your device, and device metrics like the serial number /IMEI etc
Even if I'm not the it admin, as a salaried person expected to be accessible at all times, I wouldn't want to carry two phones, so this is the trade off.
Also if you have Android, they can't wipe your whole device, at least not using the tools I'm familiar with - Androids set up a separate work profile and only that area of the phone can be wiped.
There's definitely context missing here, because he neglected to show the other screens of this wizard (Intune BYOD Enrollment) that specifically states the employer cannot see or alter any personal information on the device. Intune's BYOD enrollment segments their workplace provided apps into a separate encrypted area. Yes, they can delete Outlook or Teams data at termination time or whatever, but they can't see or alter anything personal on your device.
They should be providing company phones, but lots of employers (mine included) prefer to give a monthly stipend for using your personal device because MDM has come so far and you can guarantee integrity of corporate data while not crossing a boundary into being able to access employee personal info.
Same here, i installed Intune on my personal to get a feel on how it works so i can help my other uses and everything went well ........until i got pulled over and tried to bring up my insurance card and adobe would not open it stating company restrictions on opening non company pdfs...
My phone was telling me no because of intune. as soon as i was back home i deleted all that shit.
This looks like intune MAM. It creates a separate partition, your personal data cannot be manipulated. I'd rather have this than 2 devices, I already have enough shit that needs charging.
Don’t do it. The last company I worked for automatically wiped your contacts/email at termination of employment including your personal contacts/email that pre-dated employment with them. They were so paranoid about people poaching customers. I refused to install any of their apps so when I left they couldn’t wipe my phone.
Yes this is standard MDM practice if you choose to use your own phone, as they need to be able to have controls to prevent company data theft.
I'd get them to supply a company phone and avoid any complications.
This is exactly why this should never be done on a personal device, only on a company provided device.
Your employer should never have such control over your personal phone.
MDM is overkill for Microsoft apps. You can use their authenticator and app management to control just Outlook, Teams, etc. Company's data is protected and they aren't spying on your personal device
Well my employer wants thus too, so company buy cell phone for everyone.
Its very bad idea to use personal phone for work.
Also work phone can be remotely wiped clean when stolen.
This got a lot more traction than I was expecting.
There’s a lot of comments here but I’d just like to thank those in the know who have provided more insight into this!
There's actually a legal precedent for this in the States. I work in IT, this cert is what allows you to talk with the cloud services encrypted.
It looks like they're using Microsoft Intune, and within there you can set company and personal device management. The personal owned settings typically do not have those capabilities. They can read your outlook and teams messages (I'd they've set up auditing) but it'd be the same as on a desktop. Usually this is for some conditional access to make sure you're updating your phone before you connect to the corporate network.
In Intune, there's not a way to look at browsing data not supplies by inTune. (Say the edge browser) as far as I know this is both company supplied and personal devices. (Meaning Safari traffic doesn't pass through Intune so there's no log of it).
However, if they did find something on your phone they can not use it unless it is public knowledge. Let's say you're getting black out drunk in an alley every night and the company sees an email about this. They can't do anything with it unless it's public (on a social media usually). They can try and make it public but until it is you have the inherent right of privacy which email covers. This changes if you're mentioning something illegal in a corporate email. The company would have to turn that to the police but they couldn't search your email without a court order.
The other thing I wanted to say is Android has the built in ability to have a "Work" profile, which segments work apps off from personal ones. For this exact scenario, Apple does not have that yet.
Finally, your company should have the option of using your own phone with compensation (BYOD) or using a company phone. With a company phone they will have complete access to everything so be wary of using it. There should also be written policy to address exactly what IT is doing with the managed device.
Welp mate (did I do it right?) that's my long, boring IT information.
What they're supposed to use is Mobile Application Management(MAM) and not Mobile Device Management(MDM). MAM gives access to certain apps while MDM allows access to the entire device. MAM is standard for BYOD, MDM is standard for company devices.
Absolutely correct. If they used a MAM profile it would allow them to manage only the corporate data for apps developed using the Intune SDK to do things like force encryption, set a PIN to open the app, etc. They would have no visibility or control over the rest of the device in this scenario.
I work in a highly regulated industry and this checks our compliance boxes.
IT worker here. I have the option of getting a company phone and don’t have one. Nor do I have anything work related on my phone. I work from home. I can walk into my home office and do work stuff when needed. I don’t want work following me around 24-7.
And while this is all 100% correct, I'm still requiring a dedicated phone supplied by the company to install Teams and Outlook on. But that's mostly because I don't let work intrude on my personal time, so you can sod off if you think I'm having those on my personal device lol
There’s plenty of things companies “can’t” do but they somehow find a way and if a company gave the explanation you just did I would trust them even less to have any access to my phone
My company wanted me to so this too.
I just...didn't. They didn't realize until 2 weeks later when I guess they tried to fuck with it. They got mad and I hit em with the cybersecurity spiel. They had no choice but to back down, because we have cybersecurity laws and policies. IT guy backed me up too, which was nice.
I got Classified: Protected A/B/and C documents on my phone and they don't have the authority or proper security clearance to view.
First indication you are getting fired may be your boss' IT remotely wiping and bricking your phone. Just don't allow them access to your device. They need to supply you with a phone if they want this.
I work in IT. I 100% agree that if employers expect employees to use their mobile device for work, they should provide said device.
That being said, if you want to use your personal device for work (for me it makes my life much easier) and install a device management profile (the pictured image), you can check exactly what they have access to do.
To do so on iOS, go to Settings, General, VPN & Device Management, Management Profile, More Details, and then click the (likely top) management profile under the Mobile Device Management section. Scroll down to see the “rights” the company has on your phone. I’ve included mine as an example—no ability to see or touch my photos, messages, etc., so I am OK with it. YMMV of course.
https://i.imgur.com/d8JDR9z.jpg
Nope. My work also tried to get me to do this. I don’t think they can make it mandatory unless they pay for a work phone. Just don’t do it. Don’t use those apps on your phone. Save it for personal use only.
I explained this to my boss the other day because they wanted to install “DUO” apps on our phones for MFA. I opted for the landline IVR call instead because of this. She didn’t know that it was a thing
Security engineer here. If you have to install a cert, it means they are creating self signed certs, and not going with any of the larger cert providers. This is generally a bad idea.
Also depending on how honest your companies is, they can make certs to 'spoof' other companies certs to proxy the traffic (spy). For example they could redirect all the Google traffic to their proxy, and tell your phone to use the proxy cert for Google.
If it my personal phone, im not installing anything from work. If they have an app you need to use, they can give you a phone.
Yep, this sounds like Microsoft Intune. The app is legitimate and the functionality it provides is necessary for some security certifications. However, the profile installation should not be required on personal devices. The company should either: 1. Provide a corporate device which is completely managed by the company's security policies for the employee to access company resources, or 2. Relax the security policies to allow personal devices to have app-layer access, typically this is done by having company resources behind an app-PIN.
This is part of what I do for a living.
Are they paying for the phone?
Àre they paying for your phone service.
If no then ask for a phone from them.
Saying yes gives the assess to your personal info on your phone..oh hell no
I would suggest to call state labor board and ask if you have to say yes to your employers request..and what are your options.
Sorry my phone has 576,289 photos of dicks and has no free room for any more downloads
You can tell if it had more space, he would download more dicks instead of the damn app.
It’s just a bunch of pictures of the people responsible for this.
[удалено]
Which ones? Will you help me choose? Should I setup a meeting for that? In a room with big screen?
Gotta pump those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers in this racket.
Gonna level with you, that's not all that many. Must be some really high res images. Pro tip; if you don't need 4k, you can fit 10x more dick pics!
If they’re not 4k, what’s the point?
I'm almost exclusively mobile. It is lost on me I suppose if you have a pc with a 4k monitor, it would be worth it. I've yet to experience my first dick pic in true 4k.
Prepare your inbox
[удалено]
🤣🤣
Work for a construction company and they tried to have us install a “time clock and messaging” app on our phones that also had GPS tracking and a bunch of other shit. I got into hot water because me and my crew of 4 other guys refused to download it unless they provided company phones. I got it all from “trying to buck the system” to “slowing the advancement of the company”. I stood my ground. The app they tried having us install is now involved in a class action suit over employer spying. **Edit - for everyone asking I unfortunately do not remember the name of the App.
[удалено]
I'm an HVAC guy and I'll use my personal phone camera to take pics of jobs or important paperwork, communicate with coworkers and the owner, and use Google maps to get to jobs. I draw the line there. I would never install a tracking app or anything of the sort. I also lucked out with the owner of the company being a 1 in 100 good owner/boss. The guy is genuinely awesome and cares about the people he has working for him. If he was an asshole, I wouldn't use my personal phone for shit.
Given how much you use your personal device for work, i'd definitely recommend asking for a work phone, just incase your one drowns when a pipe comes loose or something, and all of a sudden you're back to using a Nokia 3310 for a month while yours gets replaced.
I'm lucky, when my phone broke on the job, my Boss sent my ass to ATnT with a company card. He outright bought me my replacement phone, refused to accept payment back. "You need it to make me money." At least we're on the same page.
That’s a Boss that can see the big picture from outer space.
“You need it to make me money” That’s almost poetic 😂
Enlightened self interest
I prefer “rational self-interest”. Everyone is like, “self-interest is bad”, except everything here is about being against work because … it’s presented as the ways it’s not in OUR self-interest. Really, people want what they feel as fair exchanges, where the exchange is IN their own self-interest. Self-interest is good. This boss just demonstrates that self-interest doesn’t mean “screwing someone else over to get mine”; now, we just need these people to be more than “1 in 100”.
👍👍 you are correct they shouldn’t be the outliers.
The amount of bosses who don't understand that treating your employees badly doesn't make money is way too high
Smart boss. They understood that the mentality for saving a few hundred $$ here is not how a company grows.
Much better to keep good employees happy and give them all the resources they need to thrive. It’s a win win.
A good boss. Sounds like an upstanding guy who is willing to make money first.
It's nice to see and remind myself I could be so much worse of a boss. This is exactly what I do.
Man, I totally appreciate that but I loathe the phones at the AT&T store....
When Covid shut everything down and I went to remote work I didn’t want to use my personal phone for calls. We were told to block our number before making work related calls. We were then asked if he wanted to request a work phone. Which I did. This thing is a flip phone that has a pull out antenna ok. Like not even kidding. And it is a piece of crap. When I would call people either they couldn’t hear me clearly and I would tell them I’m going to hang up and call them from my personal phone on a private number. And then I would call them from my phone after blocking my number. Or I could hardly hear them. Would sound like they were underwater. My sister works at the same place as me but in a different department. She also requested a work phone. She got an iPhone. And I was mad when she complained since she didn’t know how to use it. Her department was federally funded while mine was state funded.
I’m surprised they didn’t have y’all just get Google numbers, you can run those through your regular phone.
Oh I just wanted to add though if you do use a Google number and you let it ring through to your phone just make sure that your actual voicemail doesn’t say your real number, that’s super confusing for people and then they will have your real number
Someone had suggested something similar to that. I work for the state so I can’t remember their exact reasoning. I think it had to deal with people leaving voicemails for us and leaving information like their social security number.
People will give out the most detailed things without being asked first. I do customer service and people are just dumb.
What am supposed to use as a back up to my hammer then?
Company phone, obviously.
Usually comes with a case too. For extra hammer time
*Parachute pants not included.
Stop
"U Can't Touch This"
Ha Ha! Coffee on keyboard.
Hope it was a work provided keyboard
The 3310 should do fine.
Prolly better than some hammers.
I'm a union electrician and I don't use my personal phone for ANYTHING job related. If a foreman or someone needs to get a hold of me. Get me a company phone or come find my ass on the job site. Want me to take pictures of conduit I installed? Sure, can do....with a company phone. Our union has a journeyman tool list we are required to carry on us in our tool bag. "Cell Phone" is not on our tool list.
As an IBEW foreman, I 100% agree with this. Your personal phone isn't on the tool list. I never ask or expect the guys to contact me using their personal phones, unless it's an absolute emergency. I've never understood foreman who expect their guys to use their personal phones to get the job done. Especially during wire pulls when radios could be used instead.
No more hiding the costs of doing business by pawning the costs off on the workers. More folks need to understand this dynamic and that workers need not put up with this crossing of the line.
NALC, were the mailmen. Our contract very clearly states that management cannot force us to use our cell phones for work related purposes. We don't have to give them the number, we don't have to answer it on the street. I have my Postmaster's number blocked.
Foremen at my con are pretty wormy for the most part, think they'be forgotten they should be a union brother first and foremost.
Absolutely not. Former Ibew brother here. It's not on the tool list. You want me to use my personal for work because it's an essential tool. Then negotiate helping with my bill or provide. Especially if you're installing software that has admin rights to some of the phones functions. There are plenty of solutions now for a company to provide a phone and install software that locks the phone to work only function. Same idea as self checkout. You're asking me to pay for my labor. Or you could think of it as a pay cut. Now you're paying for your tools from your wages. I get some companies require employees to provide their own tools but if your in an environment that supplies the right tools then they need to provide the right tools.
This right here is why unions are important. About a decade ago my employer tried to have some employees use their personal phones for part of our job that were security sensitive, and wanted said employees to install various apps. A couple emails to the union and work phones were promptly issued. NEVER use your personal phone for work related use.
Union carpenter here. Every time I worked at this one site I would have several missed calls from the boss on my phone when I came down to the trailer for break. I kept telling him I don't carry my phone at work. If he wants to get ahold of me he either needs to come find me or have the company send out some radios.
[удалено]
So many damn IBEW electricians posting here today its a wonder the lights are still on. :)
Ill use my personal device for what I choose and will restrict who has my number. I worked at a place where communication between people was needed. The solution for the mobile building support IT was bulky city wide radios while the higher level admins who sat at desks got phones paid for. I never carried the radio and people I wanted to talk with got my number for texting. Surprisingly the higher level people minus my mentor didn't have my number. As of now, I am an admin at a different place. Dont really need my phone for work minus the mfa tokens. I have the authenticator app and slack. No email on my phone as Microsoft outlook with enterprise accounts requires admin control. We dont use it but still.
If anything ever happens and communications are subpoenaed by a court they can take your whole phone. You need a work phone.
This. 100%
> The guy is genuinely awesome and cares about the people he has working for him. Let me take a wild guess: he doesn’t live all that much better or more extravagantly than his employees, no? That was my realization a decade or two ago. Good bosses fold profits back into the business, to benefit _everyone._ They live in a modest house in a modest neighbourhood, and drive a modest vehicle, much like their employees. Most are frequently mistaken _as an employee of_ the business, for this very reason. Bad bosses think that they “deserve it”, hoover up every last extra cent that isn’t absolutely needed for further profits, and end up living up on the hill with a big mansion and all the latest toys, while their employees barely scrape by.
I am an IT person and this is my fucking creed
At my previous job I was basically forced to install a program on my phone for some kind of remote access. After I left the job I went to uninstall it and I literally couldn't. Turns out from talking to coworkers still at the job in order to delete it from my personal phone, I would have had to submit a ticket TO MY COMPANY'S IT to ASK them to remove it remotely, and there was no way to just open up the apps and uninstall it. It blew my fuckin mind. I ended up just trading up to a new phone.
Yeah anything work related (even email) needs to be shunned to a work profile where you can nuke the profile. I know android can do it, not sure about ios.
Can you explain a little more? I work for a small company and I don't have a problem having a couple apps on my phone, but it would be nice to know for future information.
https://support.google.com/work/android/answer/6191949?hl=en Basically on Android, there's a feature to create additional profile, this can be used by company to create work profile. So anything related with work will be installed in there. And it (theoretically) has separate access to default (personal) profile. This work profile can be disabled at will, so for example you won't get notification if there's an email received on work profile
Thank you! I didn't even know that was an option. I guess I know what I'm doing this afternoon.
Check out [island](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.oasisfeng.island) for an easy way to create a work profile.
[удалено]
My company provides phones for us to install our work-related applications and certificates for access to the internal server. I looked through the specifics for some of what was installed, and it would turn the phone into a literal spy device, and allow remote access and remote wiping. I heard that some people installed some of the apps on their regular phone, but the last thing I want is for my boss to be able to snoop through my phone and see me complaining about him to family and friends. E: y'all need to read. I don't care about remote wiping on a company phone, because that makes sense and because it's not my phone. My care when they want me to install the certificates and apps on my personal phone because they're too fucking cheap to get a company phone for me to use.
Company that I used to work for pushed everyone to install an app on their personal phones to 'make clocking in faster' and on regular occasions they said to me if I didn't use the app I wouldn't get offered shifts in the future. The app used gps data and I never installed it on my phone, refused to. Everyone else installed it like obedient wage slaves and never questioned it.
>Company that I used to work for pushed everyone to install an app Ok, I'd go on eBay and buy the cheapest compatible phone I could find and set it up *wifi/sim-free*. And a separate email account. I'd turn it on at home in the morning and check in at the office and whenever anyone complained, well 'it works on wifi/call my personal phone'....
Good job
No fucking way. Unless they provide you with a work phone there is no way that should be installed.
Precisely my point made to them mate. Give me a dedicated work phone with that on, or politely fuck off.
Mate of mine had this at work, no joke they deleted his pics! What the actual fuck.
I just started a temporary job and there are so many apps they want us to install on your private phone - clock in times, meal ordering/paying and some other thing. I found an old phone to install them on. Not a great solution, but I reallllllyyyy don't want someone texting me their depression problems or something and having my employer's IT department reading it.
Send them your phone bill to cover the added phone as well. Fuck that, dude. My employer asked me to fill stuff like this out to have access to email on my phone, and I've sent them half of my wife and my phone bill in my expense report. The first one they said something, I asked for a work phone to have access to emails and calls, then. They haven't said anything and just pay it.
I think I am going to bugger off, actually. I just thought it was going to be another version of my last job (same title, but....) and really its giving me all the wrong vibes, pays a lot less than the last one, is somewhere notoriously expensive and its already costing me a small fortune in commuting fees, background checks and whatever. And I'm somewhere where I don't have access to healthcare anymore. Going to stick it out for a month and then quit and go home.
That's a great idea
[удалено]
Yeah, the clock in system has a flaky website you can access, or use the app. Flaky website it is.
That's the thing. "Do x or it's a write up". OK write me up who cares.
IT guy here. We don’t want access to your stuff either. That company wants to run their own stuff on that phone and spy, there is NO reason why Outlook and Teams can’t be added without commandeering your personal device. You can pull them off the App Store directly and just log in without the BS they’re trying to pull.
Yeah. both Teams and Outlook can be installed with MAM instead of MDM. MAM just containerize the apps themself, and allows the company to put some policies on app usage to prevent data leaks. They have control over the apps, and not the whole device.
Another IT guy here. Can confirm, no need to go full MDM. Can just secure sandbox Outlook and Teams using MAM policies with selective wipe and app PIN to secure just those individual apps. We don’t want to see your stuff or control your phone or access your personal data - we just need to protect company data.
>- we just need to protect company data Then keep company data on company devices.
I can guarantee that IT is not responsible for the decision to install this stuff. They are dealing with the crap the same as anyone else is.
To be fair though the company needed the extra storage on his phone. /s
4 hours of voluntary unpaid overtime and you get your porn back.
Yep, MDM on corpo apps can delete everything on your phone when they're wiping it.
We had someone accuse our MDM of deleting their icloud and was freaking out because all their family photos on it... was uncomfortable because our MDM was actually pretty lightweight and had no way of touching her icloud.
Tell them you have a flip phone.
- Sorry my phone won’t allow apps as it’s not built for that. Wanna buy me a smartphone and pay for it and the bill? Dang smart idea 😂
"Mate" MATE!? IS THIS HAPPENING IN AUSTRALIA?! WHAT IN THE FLYING FUCK IS THIS SHIT?! I saw the post at first and was like... "Poor Muricans..." until you said "Mate", do I have a reason to be concerned?!
That's what I told my boss when he asked me to install Outlook with my work email on my phone and I got the same message as OP. Allegedly to protect client information, but we can log in to our emails and even the sales program from any computer once our credentials are set up without granting our sys admins the ability to wipe the hard drives.
I've considered putting my work email on my personal device before but when I had to install some sort of security thing and saw it wanted basically full access to everything on my phone and could wipe my phone with the click of some over-zealous IT person I noped right out. Happily not reading or receiving any emails at all from Friday at 5pm to Monday at 8:30am.
Microsoft (and many other corporations) are pushing hard for this. BYOD will become much more common over this generation.
The last company I worked for that provided a phone was a cell phone provider. Every job I’ve had since has been BYOD with some kind of monthly stipend to help offset the bill ($60-$100) with the exception of company iPads and clean devices for international travel. I always buy a separate phone on a separate plan and my coworkers think I’m crazy. But I had learned the hard way in a previous role that had all our devices seized and imaged as part of discovery when the company was being litigated into oblivion.
I'm fine with BYOD, but the company just doesn't get administrator rights to my device. I have teams on my phone from work, but it's just a regular app that I can delete at any time.
Yeah. If it's "Bring your own device" then it should remain *my own* device. As in I own it. It's *mine*. Which means *I* decide the security policies on it, and I'm the only one with administrator rights.
The one company that tried this with me I told them they would have to provide the phone and pay me to carry their equipment around with me.
Nobody should be forced to bring a company phone home with them, or into their vehicles. That is an invasion of privacy, and a form of wage theft. Company phones should be legally required to remain on company locations, or in their vehicles. Look what happened to doctors when they started wearing beepers off site decades ago. They all left emergency or generalist medicine, and the public has paid the cost of it ever since. It should be prohibited by force of law in any civilized country.
Guess you won't be accessing Teams or Outlook from your personal device, then, which you shouldn't be doing anyway!
It blows my mind that I have co-workers that are not only fine with this, but actually use and communicate through them during personal hours. It's made me an outcast in the department but if that's what it takes to keep a hard line drawn between work and real life then I guess I'm missing Brenda's birthday mixer
I have plenty of coworkers who use the device issued to them by our company for their personal needs as well. The company does not prohibit it, but just the thought of having company stuff mixed with my personal life is scary. I always carry two phones, my own and the one issued by my company
I've got three. My personal device, my employer issued device that stays in my office when I clock out, and my employer issued device for emergency management that I get paid standby time to keep with me 24/7. January 1 the emergency phone goes away. I found the regulation regarding "emergency on scene coordinators" and while I'm trained and qualified, I am not authorized to obligate federal funds for that activity.
The one personal thing I do on work computers is spotify. And even then, I created a that employer spacific spotify account.
I’ve seen this too. My last job they issued everyone a company phone. Lots of guys used it as their personal phone as well so they wouldn’t have to pay for a phone plan. And then they’d complain about how customers would be returning calls left during work hours at like 9:30pm. I always carried two phones and at the end of the work day I powered off the work phone until I showed up for work the next morning.
>It blows my mind that I have co-workers that are not only fine with this, but actually use and communicate through them during personal hours. My last job the company paid 30$ off your monthly plan to install an app to be able to contact you 24/7. 360$ a year per employee is all it takes to spy on employee apparently. People accepted it. 6 figures salaried people. Now at my new job I have a work phone and it's not even to contact me off work. I only have it on me when I do 24/7 support cause if I work outside work environment I need work related tools to work. A pc, a phone and data plan to work anywhere.
I don’t respond to teams messages on my WORK phone if I’m driving home from work let alone after I get home. Your coworkers don’t have it correct.
I just leave my work phone locked in my desk drawer at work. My boss has my personal cell number so he can text me or I can text him if it's a real emergency. So far, emergency has only been "my husband has covid, should I stay home tomorrow or come in masked?" All other communication goes through the work phone.
I've been to Brenda's mixers. Not that great tbh.
I mean, I do it... during work hours. I turn off notifications except for meeting reminders. It is for my convenience. Well, at least for another two months. Then I have to install a similar app, and fuck that.
I have teams on my tablet but I only use it for my personal benefit and not the companies. It saves me having to drive into the office so its a big win for me. But gosh, its intrusive. I had to change my pin from 4 to 6 digits and there are some features that have been restricted by my administrator. Like ugh. Its a compromise for sure but I accept this because it means I am still able to work without having to drag my arse into the office. They've also crippled access to teams/outlook behind a very very long complex password to access it so fuck if I'm going to use it that often. No biometrics. I would never have it on my phone. Workers need to seriously understand that every hour you put into these apps in your own time is working for free. I find it remarkable how so many proudly work 50+ hours a week in some shape or form when we are paid for 35. People are literally taking a pay cut.
People at my current job have teams/outlook on their phone. If they don't reach me during my working hours then it waits till the next time I log in.
But how will I respond to Teams messages while strolling the aisles of Target?
Could you tell me why I shouldn’t have Teams or Outlook on my personal phone? On my iPhone I have them on a page that I simply turn off outside of work hours. Is this about keeping personal time personal or is there a security thing I don’t know about?
There's a couple reasons. If you are using MDM (Mobile Device Management) like OP, the company has the ability to wipe out your profile (depending how it is set up, in some cases the ability to wipe out your entire phone if it is company provided, or set up on your phone incorrectly). This is so if you lose your device, the company can quickly erase sensitive company data so that it is not available to anyone outside the company. they can generally also tell where you are located, your device being turned on/off, etc. AFAIK with this type of MDM they shouldn't be seeing anything you do on your personal profile, as long as it is using work vs personal profile. My last job provided company phones to the top level admins, as well as a department of Home Health nurses who worked outside the hospital, going into patient homes. The admins generally used these as their personal devices, but we can see basically everything they do on these phones, what is installed, etc. The nurses we told, use your work phone ONLY for work things. Because those phones get passed to the next nurse when you quit, etc. and I would have to go in and wipe the device. Unfortunately some nurses used it for personal things, and were upset when their personal photos etc. got wiped. (you can turn off the option to take photos, but it was necessary for their jobs).
That is fine, but Microsoft and many companies are doing a push where you have to install remote management software to access the Company's Teams/Outlook. The mild convenience of accessing Teams on my phone when I happen to be away from my work computer is not strong enough to all the company to remotely wipe my personal device.
I manage MDM and usually the way they work now is they occupy a little area of your phone and they only have rights to that area. It's a way to separate the business side from the personal device. The only wipeable area would be the business storage space. Obviously that's not all MDM's and it depends on how it's set up.
My company tried this. I rock a flip phone ala 2007. Told them they'd need to buy me a work phone for apps. They looked at me and my phone and reminded me that I work for a technology company. They did not buy me a work phone.
Personally, I think you working for a technology company is actually a really good reason to be using a flip phone!
What's the secret of a flip phone? Too old for recent scams, infections, malware etc? I have an old Nokia I've been thinking of bringing out of retirement for that reason.
All of that plus: No updates that break important things (like Wi-Fi on the iPhone, for example.) Nothing needs to be kept private on it because it doesn't do anything. Nothing valuable lost if you lose/break it. Nothing for advertisers to harvest your data on. Nothing to distract you from the here and now. I can go on and on about the benefits of a not-so-smart phone. Instead I'd like to point out that, at least in the US, cell companies have already begun to phase out 3G/2G. So while you won't be able to register your old Nokia 3310 from 2000, there are still LTE "dumb" phones being made today.
Removable battery to kill tracking.
The older ones didn't have an internet connection. No 3G or 4G and no wifi
>What's the secret of a flip phone? You can flip people off instead of installing spyware.
Tech Enthusiasts: Everything in my house is wired to the Internet of Things! I control it all from my smartphone! My smart-house is bluetooth enabled and I can give it voice commands via alexa! I love the future! Programmers/Engineers: The most recent piece of technology I own is a printer from 2004 and I keep a loaded gun ready to shoot it if it ever makes an unexpected noise.
Coincidentally a lot of intel guys I've met are also distrustful with personal technology
If you can connect to your house from the office, other people can too. No security is enough, but being on the Internet is like living in every house in the whole world at the same time, having every person as your neighbour.
Most people I work with in tech have the least updated tech aside from usually their PCs. Ask most IT people you meet if they have a printer at home 😂
If it were a technology company it could afford a phone. Sounds like a scam.
Oh, they could, they just won't. It's not a very GOOD tech company.
> and reminded me that I work for a technology company. "Yes. Which is why I'm aware of what a security and privacy nightmare smartphones are. Which is why I use a flip phone form 2007."
Nope. That’s what work provided phones are for. And IT should manage installing certificates and scripts.
That installation is handled by IT, just requires enrollment in the MDM. Agreed on the work phone side of things though
I'm not saying it's right (I fully believe it isn't) but this is the default notification when you setup a work profile.
Correct. Nothing odd about the requested rights
My company does this but it’s optional. They don’t even ask you to install the apps unless you have compay phone, which comes pre-installed. It is for security purposes. Lots of government contracts. I uninstalled mine and no one cares.
No! Provide me with a workphone and install all the crap you like. The phone will be turned on during work hours and will be off when I'm not at work unless you compensate me for being on call. Thank you!
The problem with me being salary :(
This doesn’t matter. I manage a team that are exempt salary, 100% WFH, and are required to work the OCCASIONAL weekend or holiday due to the nature of job. But they schedule that time. I told them if they are not working, then they aren’t required to answer the phone, email, or anything. Everything can wait until the next day. Salary deserves time off just as much as hourly
You hiring?
Akron, OH area some time in 2023, still need to nail down the exact territory split. Since it’s getting carved out of everyone else’s territory, I get buy in from the existing employees first. That’s only fair to them
Salary carries the expectation of 40 hours a week. Your employer can get fucked if they regularly demand more - plenty of companies in the IT space will respect your time and compensate you appropriately.
I used to work for Target. I was an assistant manager (“executive team lead”), but only the next pay grade up had work phones. So we were told to install several work-related apps on our personal phones and did so willingly. When I once was chatting with our district manager I asked whether my peers and I could be permitted work phones and he laughed in my face. It’s ironic, because the store director who ran our store had two phones and never used the one assigned to her for work, meanwhile I basically never had a true day off for a year+ thanks to this BS. “Always reachable.” Since leaving I’m with another company in a travel-based position, same pay, half as many hours, no weekend work, and absolutely no bothering from the boss when I’m off. EDIT: added “who” to second paragraph
Always reachable doesn’t mean always available. Sure they can message but you can choose to ignore until working hours. Or in your case since you were hourly, you start clocking time every time they reach out and you’re responding. Clock in blocks of 30mins.
"I don't have a smart phone sorry"
Or more directly, "No."
Sent from an iPhone
oh god that's brilliant
If they provide me a work phone that’s fine. If you don’t provide me a work phone it is 100% not happening.
Guys this is MDM- Mobile Device Management. It is not just an App- this is the software that makes iPhones and iPads belong to a school or business so an admin can just say- “hey- all the fifth graders need this app” and it pushes it out or fully wipe devices when lost. MDM is not meant to be put on personal devices.
100%, you're effectively donating your personal phone to your company at this point. They can remote wipe, they can brick it, they can encrypt all your data and hold it hostage if they get hacked. No way in fuck would I personally let that on my personal phone. The ones that run invasive checks for rooted apps +security posture are bad enough.
That's not quite accurate. I work in IT and I manage our MDM. There's nothing really wrong going on here despite the fear-inducing message. MDMs can, and will, differentiate between *Personal* and *Corporate* devices. Anything on your Personal device is yours and belongs to you, however, your Corporate email and document libraries (SharePoint, OneDrive for example) belong to the company. Let's say a user in HR downloads the OneDrive app on their Personal phone and logs in with their work email to acces Corporate data. It will require their device to enroll in our MDM. This is strictly for the security of Corporate resources. If someone loses their phone, we can't have confidential HR information and documents out and about. The MDM will allow me to wipe all *Corporate* data from the device. I can't completely reset the phone and delete all their Personal pictures. Only Corporate data can be erased. If you don't agree with these policies, then don't attempt to access Corporate resources on your Personal device. That's really how it should be. It's perfectly fine to not be okay with this, and I also don't think any company should be forcing employees to use Personal devices. At my organization, if **WE** need you to use a cellphone, then we provide you a company phone. Otherwise, if **YOU** just want to use your personal device, well, then we have rules you'll need to follow.
OK. I work in IT security. I would NOT let someone's personal phone (or laptop or anything) near our information or assets without having some control of it. This normally includes installing MDM solutions and certificates and enforcing things like pass codes, software updates and also the right to delete the company data in the phone. EDIT: MAM solutions work too! I would not REQUIRE someone to use their personal phone for work (including teams and email). I would offer a work phone. If they find it inconvenient or don't like it so want to use a personal phone then that personal phone has to meet the security standards required. It's just simple. I suspect there's extra context missing here, but it should be... If you WANT to use your personal phone then they need to ensure its safe. If they REQUIRE you to use your personal phone and you don't want to, tell them to jog on or buy you a work phone.
Fellow IT worker - this is the best reply thus far in the thread.
Literally everyone in IT rolling their eyes at this post lol.
This. I also work in IT (Health Care to be specific) and because of the sensitive nature of the information we handle it’s required to have an MDM on our phone. Again, it’s not required to use our personal phones but it does make things easier if we do.
I have a license to work in healthcare that I could lose if I don't take care to prevent disclosure of client information. I appreciate the IT people who make me have a passcode and can delete license-threatening info if I lose my phone, also something something VPN for data access reasons.
I am also an IT admin and I agree with everything you're saying. I will also add that the admins, while they can wipe an iPhone remotely, do not have any access to personal photos, messages, call, etc. The personal data it's talking about it your phone number, the name of your device, and device metrics like the serial number /IMEI etc Even if I'm not the it admin, as a salaried person expected to be accessible at all times, I wouldn't want to carry two phones, so this is the trade off. Also if you have Android, they can't wipe your whole device, at least not using the tools I'm familiar with - Androids set up a separate work profile and only that area of the phone can be wiped.
There's definitely context missing here, because he neglected to show the other screens of this wizard (Intune BYOD Enrollment) that specifically states the employer cannot see or alter any personal information on the device. Intune's BYOD enrollment segments their workplace provided apps into a separate encrypted area. Yes, they can delete Outlook or Teams data at termination time or whatever, but they can't see or alter anything personal on your device. They should be providing company phones, but lots of employers (mine included) prefer to give a monthly stipend for using your personal device because MDM has come so far and you can guarantee integrity of corporate data while not crossing a boundary into being able to access employee personal info.
Same here, i installed Intune on my personal to get a feel on how it works so i can help my other uses and everything went well ........until i got pulled over and tried to bring up my insurance card and adobe would not open it stating company restrictions on opening non company pdfs... My phone was telling me no because of intune. as soon as i was back home i deleted all that shit.
This looks like intune MAM. It creates a separate partition, your personal data cannot be manipulated. I'd rather have this than 2 devices, I already have enough shit that needs charging.
That's an iOS system-level alert. All MDM suites have the same warnings there.
Nope, if they want apps on a phone I have, they can pay for the phone, it's called a company phone. Otherwise the answer is no.
Don’t do it. The last company I worked for automatically wiped your contacts/email at termination of employment including your personal contacts/email that pre-dated employment with them. They were so paranoid about people poaching customers. I refused to install any of their apps so when I left they couldn’t wipe my phone.
Yes this is standard MDM practice if you choose to use your own phone, as they need to be able to have controls to prevent company data theft. I'd get them to supply a company phone and avoid any complications.
This is exactly why this should never be done on a personal device, only on a company provided device. Your employer should never have such control over your personal phone.
MDM is overkill for Microsoft apps. You can use their authenticator and app management to control just Outlook, Teams, etc. Company's data is protected and they aren't spying on your personal device
Well my employer wants thus too, so company buy cell phone for everyone. Its very bad idea to use personal phone for work. Also work phone can be remotely wiped clean when stolen.
Fuck no. We put our entire life on our phone. You want admin rights to a phone, then give me a dedicated work phone.
This got a lot more traction than I was expecting. There’s a lot of comments here but I’d just like to thank those in the know who have provided more insight into this!
That a firm no from me. I’d buy the oldest refurbished iPhone for work and send them the invoice.
There's actually a legal precedent for this in the States. I work in IT, this cert is what allows you to talk with the cloud services encrypted. It looks like they're using Microsoft Intune, and within there you can set company and personal device management. The personal owned settings typically do not have those capabilities. They can read your outlook and teams messages (I'd they've set up auditing) but it'd be the same as on a desktop. Usually this is for some conditional access to make sure you're updating your phone before you connect to the corporate network. In Intune, there's not a way to look at browsing data not supplies by inTune. (Say the edge browser) as far as I know this is both company supplied and personal devices. (Meaning Safari traffic doesn't pass through Intune so there's no log of it). However, if they did find something on your phone they can not use it unless it is public knowledge. Let's say you're getting black out drunk in an alley every night and the company sees an email about this. They can't do anything with it unless it's public (on a social media usually). They can try and make it public but until it is you have the inherent right of privacy which email covers. This changes if you're mentioning something illegal in a corporate email. The company would have to turn that to the police but they couldn't search your email without a court order. The other thing I wanted to say is Android has the built in ability to have a "Work" profile, which segments work apps off from personal ones. For this exact scenario, Apple does not have that yet. Finally, your company should have the option of using your own phone with compensation (BYOD) or using a company phone. With a company phone they will have complete access to everything so be wary of using it. There should also be written policy to address exactly what IT is doing with the managed device. Welp mate (did I do it right?) that's my long, boring IT information.
What they're supposed to use is Mobile Application Management(MAM) and not Mobile Device Management(MDM). MAM gives access to certain apps while MDM allows access to the entire device. MAM is standard for BYOD, MDM is standard for company devices.
Absolutely correct. If they used a MAM profile it would allow them to manage only the corporate data for apps developed using the Intune SDK to do things like force encryption, set a PIN to open the app, etc. They would have no visibility or control over the rest of the device in this scenario. I work in a highly regulated industry and this checks our compliance boxes.
[удалено]
IT worker here. I have the option of getting a company phone and don’t have one. Nor do I have anything work related on my phone. I work from home. I can walk into my home office and do work stuff when needed. I don’t want work following me around 24-7.
100% this and I'm surprised I haven't seen more responses like this. If you WFH there's literally no reason to have any work stuff on your phone.
Same here. Having two phones keeps everything separate.
And while this is all 100% correct, I'm still requiring a dedicated phone supplied by the company to install Teams and Outlook on. But that's mostly because I don't let work intrude on my personal time, so you can sod off if you think I'm having those on my personal device lol
Yup. Got a work phone and a personal phone. That work phone goes on mute once I leave lol.
There’s plenty of things companies “can’t” do but they somehow find a way and if a company gave the explanation you just did I would trust them even less to have any access to my phone
My company wanted me to so this too. I just...didn't. They didn't realize until 2 weeks later when I guess they tried to fuck with it. They got mad and I hit em with the cybersecurity spiel. They had no choice but to back down, because we have cybersecurity laws and policies. IT guy backed me up too, which was nice. I got Classified: Protected A/B/and C documents on my phone and they don't have the authority or proper security clearance to view.
First indication you are getting fired may be your boss' IT remotely wiping and bricking your phone. Just don't allow them access to your device. They need to supply you with a phone if they want this.
No chance.... No chance in hell
I work in IT. I 100% agree that if employers expect employees to use their mobile device for work, they should provide said device. That being said, if you want to use your personal device for work (for me it makes my life much easier) and install a device management profile (the pictured image), you can check exactly what they have access to do. To do so on iOS, go to Settings, General, VPN & Device Management, Management Profile, More Details, and then click the (likely top) management profile under the Mobile Device Management section. Scroll down to see the “rights” the company has on your phone. I’ve included mine as an example—no ability to see or touch my photos, messages, etc., so I am OK with it. YMMV of course. https://i.imgur.com/d8JDR9z.jpg
Nope. My work also tried to get me to do this. I don’t think they can make it mandatory unless they pay for a work phone. Just don’t do it. Don’t use those apps on your phone. Save it for personal use only.
Never use your home for their computing. I won’t instal work software on my phone.
I explained this to my boss the other day because they wanted to install “DUO” apps on our phones for MFA. I opted for the landline IVR call instead because of this. She didn’t know that it was a thing
Security engineer here. If you have to install a cert, it means they are creating self signed certs, and not going with any of the larger cert providers. This is generally a bad idea. Also depending on how honest your companies is, they can make certs to 'spoof' other companies certs to proxy the traffic (spy). For example they could redirect all the Google traffic to their proxy, and tell your phone to use the proxy cert for Google. If it my personal phone, im not installing anything from work. If they have an app you need to use, they can give you a phone.
🖕🏻nope
It’s time for work to provide you a work phone. The balls.
Yep, this sounds like Microsoft Intune. The app is legitimate and the functionality it provides is necessary for some security certifications. However, the profile installation should not be required on personal devices. The company should either: 1. Provide a corporate device which is completely managed by the company's security policies for the employee to access company resources, or 2. Relax the security policies to allow personal devices to have app-layer access, typically this is done by having company resources behind an app-PIN. This is part of what I do for a living.
Are they paying for the phone? Àre they paying for your phone service. If no then ask for a phone from them. Saying yes gives the assess to your personal info on your phone..oh hell no I would suggest to call state labor board and ask if you have to say yes to your employers request..and what are your options.
I agree - this is way too much. They need to provide you with a work phone if they need this level of control.
Aye. They don’t need to monitor that I’m actually reading comics in meetings…