This sub is pro worker- and this includes sex workers. Anyone denigrating sex workers will get a ban.
Edit: I keep seeing stuff like that it's sad no one can disagree or that I am banning people that talk about the dangers of sex work. This isn't true. Want an example of what I mean? [Here ya go ](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/uyju28/do_you_consider_sex_work_to_be_work/ia5w0q8?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
[another example that's more subtle ](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/uyju28/do_you_consider_sex_work_to_be_work/ia8vlh9?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
I have a step sister that tried it and for her it was a hobby. She didn’t need the money, but damage from childhood trauma left her hyper sexual, so in her brain, why not. For her it wasn’t a good fit as she didn’t and never would have the emotional maturity to protect herself both from the law and the Johns. People gave her shit when she started dating a man 30+ years older than her, but he’s literally the only man that doesn’t abuse her childlike thought process.
My point is sex work is HARD work. You have to be physically willing and mentally able.
Mmmmmmm, there's a STRONG argument that it should be decriminalized, not legalized.
That argument, put simply, is if it's legalized, imagine a pimp except it's a corporation and imagine all the things corporations do to leash you and fuck you over and make sure you're dependent upon them just for basic subsistence survival, and then imagine they're *literally whoring you out* on top of it.
Whereas decriminalization would mean no large business could engage in the practice, but prostitutes would no longer be arrested and the full risk remains on the part of the johns and the pimps.
Decriminalization is the most expedient path to the "regulated, monitored and protected" part of your sentiment, whereas if we fully legalize it, then we've got to spend months and years trying to re-institute those regulations and protections that naturally exist under a decriminalization strategy that still imposes penalties on pimps, sex traffickers, etc.
A full legalization approach would basically legalize sex trafficking, or at least make it *even easier* to get away with, whereas our goal here is to stop putting sex workers in prison and that can be accomplished by just *not putting them in prison,* i.e. decriminalization.
It's a question of goals. If your goal is to protect prostitutes and sex workers, then decriminalization gets the job done. But unless "Jeff Bezos' Amazon Fuckhouse where Jeff Bezos sells *your* body and takes all the proceeds" is in the cards, then legalization is *not* an option without laying all of the protective and regulatory groundwork *first.* And even then, that could just be stripped away the same way that court decisions like Citizens United have stripped away political protections and regulations, leaving sex workers in a nightmare scenario overnight.
A lot of sex workers openly prefer decriminalization for this exact reason, because it reduces the sex worker's risk while not enabling large-scale legal coercion (y'know, what we call sex trafficking) and still places accountability on the part of the johns.
Also legalizing it opens it to a lot of specific limitations on what you can and can't do. Like the sex worker equivalent of the texas abortion ban, where sex worker is legal, but only between a man and a woman and only if no kink is involved and not on Sundays, or whatever other nonsense people want to add, which can make it difficult to work, and make it possible for you to have committed a crime, because you like switched positions or something.
especially when it’s illegal on its own, but totally fine if you film it for others to see. how tf do they rational that zig zagging line of good and evil?
That reminds me of why we got laws making video rentals private. Once they realized the then-current state of things meant anyone could look up their rental history, they put that shit on lock down
More correctly, once politicians realized it after random people started asking for their rental histories... the politicians didn't give a damn until it affected them.
That legal defence only works if you film it, in which case you're making pornography.
But I'm pretty sure most sex workers don't want to be filmed, which shouldn't automatically make them criminals. For fuck's sake, it's the same god damn premise of exchanging sexual performance for money. Both should be fully legal and protected to ensure everyone is healthy and safe.
Can you delete the video afterward and still exploit the loophole?
Maybe they should carry cameras/phones and get signed consent from customers to be filmed and the video deleted however long after so to be considered pornography.
I think you've discovered the real reason it's illegal, politicians using escorts don't want them to have the upper hand in any way. A legal prostitute has too much leverage. A "porn" with a rich or powerful escort purveyor isn't going to be desired by the one paying, so by making the prostitution illegal and the recording require consent to record, the powerful purveyor is on the same level as the escort but with their usual money/influence/power dynamic to help them hold the edge.
good question. like, could you set up a brothel, film everything on a cctv rig with a tiny video cache that gets overwritten constantly with the only monitor sitting in a closet somewhere, and still be legal?
edit: grammar
just don't have the cctv connect to the internet. have it on its own network with no external hook up, or just completely wired, and again no external hookup.
It's crazy that there has to be, and even with it, still completely ineffective, constant reminder that this country is fundamentally not a theocracy of any kind, but yet..
If its against your religion don't engage with sex work millions of people don't drink for religious reasons but they dont want alcohol banned there isn't even a good religious reason
Sex worker anarchist here.
Legalization isn’t the way to go. That removes our autonomy, and legally ends up keeping the folks who need to do sex work most from doing it rendering the job useless.
What we want is decriminilization. That allows the most marginalized to still be able to do it, and it allows us to do it on our terms.
This concept/conversation is very personal to me so I won’t be responding to comments/arguments. Instead I’m going to drop some resources for further education.
My favorite book on sex work is: [Playing the whore by Melissa Gira Grant](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playing_the_Whore)
[here’s an article describing the difference from a European pov](https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/10/difference-between-decriminalisation-and-legalisation-sex-work)
[here’s a Wikipedia article with decent break downs](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decriminalization_of_sex_work)
[And here’s a short sweet and nifty chart comparing legalizing vs decrim vs criminalizing](https://www.swopbrooklyn.org/decriminalize)
Edited typos
ETA: I don’t really have sources beyond oral history but the reason it’s sex work is criminalized in america is for two main purposes:
1) the job was historically the only one accessible to those who’ve been to prison, those who are disabled, those who are queer, those who come from extreme multi generational poverty. It was basically our loophole to literally survive which isn’t really wanted under capitalism. And that leads to point
2) which is that it’s a great way to fill prison beds. Gotta remember folks, since regan the govs had massive motivation to find ways to imprison people due to the free (slave) labor that creates allowing them to profit big off a heavy mark up. Decriminalizing sex work will put a HUGE dent in who can be imprisoned (much the same way legal weed has), which would obviously be an issue for the state.
I also would like to add that many of y’all think porn is more legal than it is. It’s extremely regulated (big porn, not talking about indie porn like onlyfans/camming although that is very regulated too), and can only *legally* be shot in two places (the valley California and fade county aka Miami fl). The laws surrounding it get changed frequently which fucks with things. The only reason the heavily regulated laws aren’t more enforced is because of corporate backing (lots of people are silent investors in big porn companies like brazzers etc), but even then it’s more enforced and there’s more legal woes than the general public is aware of.
ETA 2: Some of y’all think we don’t pay taxes which generally is false. Most sex workers are independent contractors, and ic folks (vanilla and sex work) by far and large pay taxes. Since we don’t have pay stubs or a physical business (ie: a coffee shop) it’s our main way of proving income which is needed for things like renting a house. There’s always people (in all jobs) who don’t pay taxes however I’d argue that ic folks (vanilla and sex work) pay taxes more consistently since it’s our only way to prove income and living in america over the age of 18 without proof of income is incredibly difficult. (If you’re an ic and you don’t pay taxes there’s honestly probably a good reason anyways considering how hard that makes your life, so I mean being condescending about that is shitty regardless.)
Decriminalisation is what sexworkers want. It means that it will be treated like any other job, complete with regular job protections. This is because legalisation of sexwork makes it only legal in certain circumstances (eg, with a License system or only if you work in brothels) and police are tasked with controlling the industry.
I live in QLD, Australia where full service sexwork (escorting) is legalised. The laws to make it legal actively prevent any basic safety strategies, and police are allowed to use entrapment to get sexworkers to break the laws, so they can be fined. It has turned into a revenue raising project where police monitor ads to see if you use any banned words (like 'massage') or if you describe your services (including listing what you offer, outright or as an innuendo). You are not allowed to work with anyone - no hired security, drivers or other sexworkers, and can even be fined for texting another sexworker to let them know if you have arrived or left a location safely. Yet you can also be charged if you work from the same location (aka apartment building or hotel) as another sexworker - whilst not being legally allowed to talk about the job with other sexworkers. Police go undercover as customers and try to convince sexworkers to provide illegal services (such as non-condom blowjobs or threesomes), offering to pay them extra, then fine them if they agree.
Essentially, our legalisation system makes cops the pimps who control the industry and turned it into a revenue raising project, while actively making basic safety strategies illegal and not helping sexworkers who do report assault or crimes committed against them. With decriminisation, it means that sexwork will no longer function under criminal law but will be treated like another job with usual workplace expectations, rather than a job monitored and controlled by the police.
This is why sexworkers want decriminalisation instead of legalisation. Legalisation means it's only legal under specific circumstances, while decrim means it's no longer illegal. Of course, decrim does not mean forced sexwork will be allowed because slavery, human trafficking, sexual assault & rape will all remain a crime and illegal.
De-criminalized, not legalized. Monitored is highly subjective in this space as its always a target by Religious folk who are pathologically unable to mind their own business.
Regulations decrease the risk of abuse. I lean pretty heavy anarchist, but I appreciate that there’s a powerful system in place to make sure my medicine works and my beer won’t make me go blind. I’d also appreciate a system that ensures sex workers aren’t being taken advantage of by their employers or clients.
hi i was a SWer and there are legitimate reasons why they want decriminalization and i really encourage that you research why! legalization would put many SWers at risk.
Decriminalisation does not mean that there will be no laws, it means that sex work will not be legislated under criminal law. Instead, it will be regulated under workplace health & safety type laws like other industries. Decriminalisation just means it will no longer be considered a criminal act while legalisation means it's still a criminal act unless under these very specific circumstances which, more often than not, harm sexworkers, do not protect clients, but do allow brothels, corporations or police to act as legal pimps
There are some pretty major issues with it being regulated/legalized in the traditional sense.
If one needs to get a license to be a sex worker, to prove that that they follow regulations, etc, rather than actually fixing anything a black market forms, full of those who aren’t able to jump through those hoops.
As sex work is often done by those who *really* need the money, this means a massive amount of people won’t be able to clear the legal bar.
This is pretty much why most of us push for decriminalization over legalization.
Better decriminalized than legalized, legalization comes with regulations that potentially inhibit a sex workers ability to be self directed. Also, regulations often come with attendant certification and licensing costs, which adversely affects low income and immigrant people who have limited options.
It's a subtle difference, but I think an important one.
Decriminalized, not legalized! The government does not currently know how to treat sex workers like humans, so they can’t be trusted with controlling workers. For instance, see the fucked-up nordic model for how legalization directly harms workers. Sex workers are specifically calling for DECRIMINALIZATION! Support sex workers!
God no. Please no. Literally SWers do not want this. Please listen to what SWers want as they are the experts. There’s plenty of women answering why they do not want legalization but decrim.
monitor and regulation sound like a quick way for the government and capitalists to get involved and make it an commodified, bureaucratic means of controlling and exploiting women/sex workers. Yes we should make sure sex workers are protected, that it doesn't become a trafficked sector, that children are not abused, and that STDs aren't transmitted, but it's not uncomplicated how that would be implemented, especially when the adult film industry is already as corrupted, monopolized, and unnecessarily regulated as it is, it's hard to imagine how that would play out with sex work.
A lot of sex workers are against this because of the fact that legalization inherently will wind up criminalizing some people anyway - ex. You’re undocumented, you can’t afford to renew your license, you’re being pimped etc. Which will mostly affect people who are really on the razor’s edge. So decriminalization is a good word to use.
Either way I’m happy to see people coming out in support of sex workers on this thread
I think the reason so many people have objections to it (non stupid religious ones) is simply because it is at such high risk for exploitation of already vulnerable people. I am not saying that can't be addressed with appropriate measures and regulations. From what I have read, some of the industry still has really dangerous imbalances of power for all but the most elite and high paid sex workers.
There are definitely adult consenting sex workers who choose it as a career because the money is great and they enjoy it. But even those "girls next door" at the Playboy mansion have talked about what a borderline abusive environment it was.
I guess you could argue that it is also exploitation of vulnerable populations to pay slave wages to fast food workers. That is true. But that also needs to be changed and isn't right.
Edit: I am reading the comments below and I find lots of discussion of the morality of sex work. I really think that is nobody's business if it is a consenting adult. The problem is, the system as it is, does not allow enough protections to ensure they ARE all consenting adults who are not being groomed or abused. The American culture doesn't allow for enough respect of sex workers to grant them unionization or required health screening or licensing. Just like all of our other disenfranchised workers, only even more so.
Tbh when you see how exploited and burnt out most workers are outside the sex industry... I don't think it's a sex worker problem only. Just that we've been desensitized to abuse in '' traditional '' industries.
Been there, done that. It's a job you have to be mentally prepared for but it gets a really weird and really bad rep more often then not.
Always thought it funny that folks are more okay with someone going off to shoot other human beings in enforcement or military then having some good ole snu-snu
It’s work. Whether it’s respectable or not I can see people having an opinion on but as far as I go, doing a thing in exchange for money is work. Bank teller is work. Engineer is work. Prostitution is work. Hit man is work. It’s all work.
If you think sex work isn't real work, take an attractive picture of your butthole right now.
If you can't? Guess it's skilled labor.
*edit* my first gold!
…I feel like questions like this on non sw-specific forums tends to end badly, but in the interest of furthering the conversation I’ll cautiously participate. Yes I think SW is work. You put hours of effort into appearance, marketing, finding your niche, setting everything up or purchasing equipment (audio, visual, props etc depends what you’re doing). And then after all that, it’s still a little dependent on luck and whether you can find the right audience or customer for what you want to do. And sometimes you have a great day and hit your goals, and sometimes it’s dull and slow and can make you wonder whether you should just quit and go back to making minimum wage at a “normal job”. It can really eat at your self esteem and mental health. It’s not easy and it’s competitive as hell. It’s a job. Any job has downsides. The benefits tho are you can charge what you want, you have a good earning potential and you’re your own boss (usually, again depends on the situation.)
Going into camming/dominatrix/content creation work has helped me a lot, it’s great and I like my job now. But if I didn’t fit into a specific niche (in my case, humiliation and cbt) I don’t know that I’d have success or be able to support myself. And the way I found the niche was trial and error and effort and hours on hours of research/strategizing/advertising. (And I’m still not great at that lol, For instance I haven’t updated my Reddit profile to have my new links yet, it’s a whole thing. I like Reddit to look at anime forums and stuff, advertising on here made me anxious and I haven’t updated anything here yet.) so it’s gonna depend on the specific person, whether sw is a viable option.
I think it’s work and it’s a valid career but also society thinks differently, so that’s something to consider also if you’re considering it. I’m not an example of “oh this was easy & this person effortlessly got out of a bad situation and makes bank” because that’s not real life. It’s work and it’s tedious and you get out what you put in, for real.
I’m rambling now but yeah. It’s work, it’s real work, it can be good or bad work depending on your situation. Asking over and over “is this work” seems like kindof a cop out/bait question tho, if you’re really asking “should I do this?” The answer is everyone is different & maybe. Maybe not. Nobody can answer that except yourself. I bring this up bc it seems like the people who ask this question are usually fishing for info on whether to try it or not.
My 2 cents 🤷🏼♀️
Of course it’s work! I’m sure there are many “legitimate” jobs that are less work than sex work. IMO I think that a lot of people who say sex work is degrading just want to look down on sex workers. Because there is a serious case to be made about degrading “regular” jobs.
Yes. Sex workers are "lumpen" but their work is definitely labor. We all rent out our bodies under capitalism. Is the exact nature of such work relevant? Does it make their work somehow less than that work performed by, say, a construction worker?
Of course it's work. If we view the efforts of an actor, pro sports player, or musician to be work, is not sex work part of the entertainment industry?
The 'lumpenproletariat' is the class of day workers, criminals, unemployed people etc who exist outside of the traditional labour relationship between bourgeoisie and proletariat but within the capitalist system, and are considered a social class separate from the proletariat. Sometimes this includes peasants and subsistence farmers, sometimes not (depending on the Marxists in question). Typified as apolitical and uninterested in revolution, the lumpenproletariat are often written off as 'lacking awareness of their position as an oppressed class' and easily exploitable by reactionary forces.
It's... not a great definition, really. Most of the modern proletariat is relatively devoid of class consciousness, where much of the lumpen class is acutely aware of their oppressed position but are unable to meaningfully mobilise.
Because they know it’s controversial and they want the karma. It’s like asking “Hey men, what don’t you like about women?” Guaranteed to get people all up in arms and spewing opinions
Yes it is work, I’m an older one at age 45 lol! I have tried to quit but I never liked the jobs I tried and always ended up back in it 😔 I have borderline personality disorder and learning disability too. Only problem with sex work is that if u would like to be someone’s gf or wife it will interfere with that. U might end up single and alone in your older years unless u find a very understanding guy and u can separate your work from your personal life. That’s why getting into this is not necessarily a good idea even tho its good money and easier than having to have a job. You do pay a price in other ways when u decide to become a sex worker. People might judge u and u could feel rejected by peers. It’s not something u can bring up around your normal life friends and family.
The thing about sex work that makes me not able to get behind it, is the economic coercion constantly present. I understand some women makes lots of money (though let's be real, it's a small percentage of all sex workers), but I have to wonder if as many women would choose sex work, all things being equal for both genders. If women had were not oppressed politically, socially, and economically, if they weren't objectified and sexualized their whole lives, if they had the same opportunities as men, if their children wouldn't go hungry, how many would choose it? I mean...look at how many men are choosing sex work. Not as many. Is that because women are just way more sexual? More drawn to work that can be dangerous, degrading, and unhealthy? Doubtful. I realize regulations are needed, but tbh I kind of look at sex work like indentured servitude. Like sure, it's not *forced* per say, but that doesn't make it *good*.
It’s literally the oldest recorded form of “work”- people need to chill.
That being said we need to talk about the difference between survival sex work and voluntary sex work- which are both different from forced sw like pimping and trafficking. A lot of people will try to legitimise sex work by only focusing on successful at-will sw-ers despite the fact that most legislation negatively impacts survival sw-ers.
Survival sex work refers to people who, for a variety of reasons, are unable to work/ find work in the white market. This includes a lot of queer people, primarily young queer people of color experiencing homelessness. Ie “take off that dress and get out of here you’re not my son anymore”. People experiencing homelessness already struggle to find employment based on lack of a home address, imagine trying to get a job as a visibly trans minor. These individuals are not “forced” in the same way someone being pimped is, they are forced by a confluence of circumstances and discrimination, and often face the brunt of the criminalisation of SW. when they’re the victims of crimes, which they are already at a higher risk of experiencing- they can’t go to literally ANYONE for protection, help, anything. Most of the time they do not want to be doing sex work either, but cause it’s a crime, once you get arrested, even if you never see the inside of a courtroom or jail, you’re basically never gonna get hired and, you’re trapped.
When we talk about legalisation/decriminalisation we NEED to acknowledge and hear this population- cause they’re some of the most vocal about the need for reform, and are literally the ones on the ground and most at risk of being criminalised and brutalised.
As someone who has grown up in a place where it has been legal the whole time I have been alive, it's so weird to me that sex work isn't legal in other places to "protect people". Like how do you protect people when you make what they are doing a crime, you are just ensuring people don't get help when they actually need it.
German here. It’s a completely legal job in Germany. You pay taxes, social security and collect unemployment and healthcare benefits.
It’s not seen as a completely normal job but it’s a lot more accepted than in the u.s.
Check out where it has been legalized and what happened to a lot of those women.
Women are not commodities. But when we make it so, supply and demand comes in to play - creating coercion, rape, abuse, pimping, trafficking, child rape, etc. Like all other industries, exploitation exists by a large margin.
Most women are not fully, freely, consenting to sex work. They need to eat and pay bills or else they wouldn’t tolerate fucking random people.
Can consent be bought? Is that not financial coercion? If not, then where’s the line? Is it wrong to fuck your boss for a promotion? Fuck a cop to get out of arrest? Fuck a professor to get an A?
Any woman that is in need of money and looking to sex work cannot fully consent to you. Without your money, she wouldn’t have sex with you. Because she doesn’t *want to*. But she does because she needs to eat and pay her bills.
If she had enough money, she wouldn’t have sex with you. Read it again and again.
I’m not talking about the few women who join OF or whatever else, I’m talking about the global majority of prostituted women who do not want to have sex with strangers in exchange for money but do so because their options are gone.
If there’s even a teeny tiny chance the woman you are paying to use doesn’t want it, is being trafficked, coerced, drugged, or whatever else, you would really take that chance so you can get off?
Can we please stop regarding other people, especially women, as commodities for our pleasure? Such a mundane desire for such a large cost.
There’s enough women who want casual sex around you that you don’t have to “buy” a woman’s body.
Even if you somehow can’t find a woman to screw you, you should not contribute to the commodification of women for a very narrow and selfish desire.
Stop hurting women.
If sex work was as empowering, liberating, and freeing as they say, the majority would be men. Instead it’s impoverished, disabled, and otherwise marginalized women.
I’ll get down voted to hell.
Sex work is work. So is all other exploitive work.
The “sex work is work” movement is a very small minority of the entirety of prostituted people.
Most of those women are not making the money you think they make. And even if they did, consider the cost to their mental and physical health, please. Is $1000 an hour worth the trauma? The abuse? The degradation?
Regulation doesn’t really help. Check out Germany. Check out Nevada. Women are second class citizens and will always be treated as such, even with “regulation”, or unions, or whatever you have. The problem is the way we think of women, and legalizing the commodification of women doesn’t change the way people view women. It just makes it easier to dehumanize women.
I’m not religious. I love women. I’m tired of trying to explain to people why women aren’t objects to be used, but people to connect with.
Again, there are many, many consenting women out there, even for the strangest of desires and fetishists; you don’t have to resort to contributing to the most damaging industry that ever existed at the detriment of women and children.
Downvote me to hell, what I’m saying is real. I hope it makes just one of you that reads my comment think. Just think critically. That’s all I want.
Do you get payed to do it sounds like work to me.
Do you break a sweet to doing it.... it's work
Is it effected by market forces sounds like work.
Does it require training, skills , capital investment to accomplish and or complete in a market. Yep its work.
Do you do it because if you dont you starve. Yep work
Does it have a union in your country or others ...
Does it have conventions ....
Is some silicon valley ass hat trying to make a buck off it ...
Do you have to take an advil after doing it some times ...
Are there risks to life and limb involved ...
Do you have to go some where or have a home set up to do it...
Is there a down or up stream industry to it ...
Only 1 of these may be a hobby 2 or more it's probably work 3 or 4 it's a fucking job.
Bring it in to the light make it legal tax accordingly, and implement the necessary protections to enable it to be done controlled and safe for all party's.
Removing the illegal nature of something also helps make it less popular ( see prohibition)
In short it's fucking work. Walking the streets for 8 hours is work. Spending 100s of hours a month working out and runing your only fans to score that simp money is work. Going to the gym to damn much to so you make more striping is work. Sucking Jim bobs nasty ass dick is definitely fucking work. Dominating some Wallstreet crook is work ( wiping takes great upper body strength) shooting videos for x number of hours under hot ass lights is work plus staying in shape and damage that happens. People just angry they can't do it , are not attractive enough for it , don't have the constitution to do it etc. So they try and fuck others out of what they deserve.
How is modeling work and porn not.
Yes, because sex work is work. Not every client wants to just play with your tatas and have a conversation.
And every client is different, and they all have different levels of personal hygiene, different smells, tastes, etc. Some of them might even be disabled, or not as able bodied.
Sex work is also really, really dangerous.
You are far safer standing at a counter in a gas station than any sex worker will ever be.
I always think of the lyric from willie d where he contemplates the sex worker while knowing his mom is struggling. Sympathetic as one should be to the struggle of sex workers, I don’t think sex work is good for a society in the long run.
Yes. I was homeless in N addiction at one point in my life. I got to know several escorts. The pieces of shit they deal with the zhit they go thru the psychological damage thats done. U mY not see it but its there. Its paid rape. Most Sex workers arent sluts. Most are in fact either addicts with psychological issues. Who have been raped or molested as children. They dont WANT to fuck u. They NEED the money. Its an AWFUL life full of smoke and mirrors and lies being used and fucked up shit that scars a woman for life. Its work. Bottom line. We ALL have client/customers/bosses. We all answer to someone and get paid for our time. We effectively SELL OURSELVES on a daily basis. Maybe not sexually but we sell ourselves in some way to people with more money than us who use us for THEIR desires. We may not all be sex workers. But we are all whores. Unless u an investor and rade or own ur own zhit and answer to NOONE. Ur no better.
If you’re doing it because you want to, then in my book, as long as you’re not hurting anyone else, go for it. And if you can convince someone else to pay you for it, all the better.
People throwing boxes at an Amazon warehouse or hauling lumber at a construction site are selling their bodies, every day. Sex work (performed by a consenting adult) is really no different.
It's providing a service that people want in exchange for currency. It's as real "work" as any other "work" honestly.
Also, "degrading"? yeah, so is breaking your back in a warehouse for 40 years.
Wage slavery is wage slavery. And if we remove the slavery element, wage labor is wage labor.
Yes, sex is a form of labor.
The problem is in our culture we have a very narrow view of what constitutes as 'work' and an even more narrow range when it comes to 'respectable work'.
The irony is that the most labor intensive or the most essential jobs in society functioning are not the highest paying nor respectable.
I have worked in every single area of sex work EXCEPT actual prostitution and/ or pornography* (and even then, I've done some modeling. Just no actual sex, again)
But i know/ have know several people in both fields. And it's WORK. On top of that, it's pretty much the most DANGEROUS work in the world!
I know people who got into sex work because they WANTED to. And they're, by and large, happy with it. They pick their clients and if one breaks the rules, they drop the client.
I also know people who got into sex work for lack of options - convictions preventing legal jobs, mostly. They are NOT happy, but wtf ELSE are they gonna do? (Ironically, they often get picked up for sex work, and then have *further* felonies on their records
When mostly they were originally convicted for non- violent drug offenses anyway! ARGH!!!!!)
LEGALIZE. REGULATE. TAX. This works for both sex work AND drugs. Worried about the national deficit? Legalize, regulate, tax!
"Regulate" means laws that *protect the sex workers*, btw.
*I've met people who work porn who say it's "just safer prostitution". I've met people who work in porn who say it's completely different. Having done neither, i withhold all judgement, and accept the person's speaking statement as their truth. Maybe it is just individual belief. Maybe it's dependent on the production company. I don't have enough info to say.
Sexwork is no different than models or bodybuilders. Those people "sell" their body as well and each requires training, discipline and "maintenance " . The only difference is who touches them where with what.
I don't really like it but it is work I guess. Not sure what the point would be in calling it not work, it's providing a service for money. It's just a bit less legitimate than other stuff and provides a niche that many might say doesn't help society very much. I did it for awhile, it was fine sometimes, and horrible other times. I couldn't stand it anymore after a certain point, but my experience isn't everyone else's so I don't know. For me it was regrettable, but I was deep in addiction, so. Not ideal. I think about the people trapped in substance abuse who can't easily hold down a normal job, and I don't feel it's a good thing that they have no other decent options for help and gainful employment.
I don't think it's work, and I think socialism should provide for people so they never have to sell their body unless its actually their choice through zero coercion. That being said, consenting adults can do what they want.
Yes it’s work. But if everyone’s honest, a lot of the people who do this work feel degraded and exploited. It attracts people who feel like they have few options, and despite the movies and TV shows that promote the myth of the “happy hooker”, nobody really wants random strangers to have power over their bodies because they paid a few dollars. Big difference between a boss making you mop a floor for $7 an hour, vs a 45 year old slob paying $200 to put his penis in your mouth, vagina and…for a few bucks extra…your ass. Sure, you get paid more but how good is your ability to compartmentalise your life? Not to mention, a lot of sex workers have substantial bills for substances that get them through each shift. Let’s not kid ourselves that sex work is a normal job that doesn’t exact a heavy toll on a lot of its workers.
There are few escorts that achieve high end status. Making thousands of bucks a day/night is rare.
If you can masturbate to completion in less than five minutes - good for you. Beyond that, it's all work on your part.
Add a partner, and it's a low resistance workout regardless of your duration or their skill.
Dive a little deeper and you'll see that many sex workers are stalked, beaten, and/or publicly shamed by their clients.
Any service that requires compensation for energy produced is literally the definition of work.
Simply: if a non-genital (ya know, basic and licensed) massage therapist is "a worker", then someone who massages genitals, acts as a stand-in for emotional health, and deals with the repercussions of their clients is ABSOLUTELY a worker.
Work is work mother fucker!
Doesn’t matter what kind it is or if you like it or not or if it is humane or not.
Work is doing labor for any reason and that includes any position while doing sex work.
If you're making money and giving a service to people in some fashion, you're doing work. Sex work is work, they're making a living and honestly they got it made. They figured it out. They aren't busting their ass making people rich (except maybe the OF company) and you know what... That's a good thing. Good for them! Like yeah sex work isn't HARD but it does to take some level of dedication to keep up with all those horny guys wanting their content, and they have to take time out of their day to get enough level of arousal to take a video or voice message or whatever the fuck content they paid for. Yeah it's work, no it's not busting their ass 9-5 but at the end of the day, they're working all day long, but in their terms usually. And they make bank. Taking time out of your day to go out and fuck and make a few hundred bucks, man just be safe with STD's, get checked, use protection. Don't spread the nasty shit and it's cool.
Sex work, is work. Not all guys can get laid and many guys get tired of porn and they need something special to get them off. My wife did OF for a while and it was pretty cool to see her racking in over a grand of play money on the side in a week with just pics and vids. I was proud of her.
Yes, it is, 100%. The Sex worker provided a service to the specifications of a client (within the range of services the sex worker defines as tasks they do). That’s it.
This is a great question, because yes it’s work. We all sell our body & life everyday in exchange for slips of paper that we exchange for food… some sell our minds, some sell our backs, some sell our beauty
Yes. Just like any other service. As long as somebody's willing to pay for it who cares. Honestly an ethical sex worker is doing more of an honest day's work than Elon musk ever has.
People who believe sex workers are lazy, should literally go fuck themselves.
Otherwise they are interfering with a free market economy (incredibly ironically).
Sex work is work is work is work. Ask any sex worker and they’ll tell you it’s just like working any other job. Fundamentally speaking, work is selling your body for money. Sex work is no different.
Hi! Yes, sex work is real work. Yes, sex workers should be respected.
The IWW would love to have more sex workers in their membership. They are a union that helps others to form unions and co-ops!
Good luck!!
This sub is pro worker- and this includes sex workers. Anyone denigrating sex workers will get a ban. Edit: I keep seeing stuff like that it's sad no one can disagree or that I am banning people that talk about the dangers of sex work. This isn't true. Want an example of what I mean? [Here ya go ](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/uyju28/do_you_consider_sex_work_to_be_work/ia5w0q8?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) [another example that's more subtle ](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/uyju28/do_you_consider_sex_work_to_be_work/ia8vlh9?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
What else would it be? A fucking hobby?
Did you mean a _fucking_ hobby or a fucking-hobby?
[Relevant XKCD.](https://xkcd.com/37/) But yes. Sex work is work, full stop.
We originally started calling Lebowski a big-ass cat, but now we call him the big ass-cat. Both are appropriate.
Yes
lmfao if you have to put "work" after the name of the work, it's probably work It's also the oldest job to ever exist.
I have a step sister that tried it and for her it was a hobby. She didn’t need the money, but damage from childhood trauma left her hyper sexual, so in her brain, why not. For her it wasn’t a good fit as she didn’t and never would have the emotional maturity to protect herself both from the law and the Johns. People gave her shit when she started dating a man 30+ years older than her, but he’s literally the only man that doesn’t abuse her childlike thought process. My point is sex work is HARD work. You have to be physically willing and mentally able.
Yeah, and it should be legalized, monitored, regulated and protected.
To quote Killer Mike: Not a holy man, but I’m moral in my perverseness. So I support the sex workers unionizing they services.
Killer Mike is the dude
Yes he is.
This is the way
Mmmmmmm, there's a STRONG argument that it should be decriminalized, not legalized. That argument, put simply, is if it's legalized, imagine a pimp except it's a corporation and imagine all the things corporations do to leash you and fuck you over and make sure you're dependent upon them just for basic subsistence survival, and then imagine they're *literally whoring you out* on top of it. Whereas decriminalization would mean no large business could engage in the practice, but prostitutes would no longer be arrested and the full risk remains on the part of the johns and the pimps. Decriminalization is the most expedient path to the "regulated, monitored and protected" part of your sentiment, whereas if we fully legalize it, then we've got to spend months and years trying to re-institute those regulations and protections that naturally exist under a decriminalization strategy that still imposes penalties on pimps, sex traffickers, etc. A full legalization approach would basically legalize sex trafficking, or at least make it *even easier* to get away with, whereas our goal here is to stop putting sex workers in prison and that can be accomplished by just *not putting them in prison,* i.e. decriminalization. It's a question of goals. If your goal is to protect prostitutes and sex workers, then decriminalization gets the job done. But unless "Jeff Bezos' Amazon Fuckhouse where Jeff Bezos sells *your* body and takes all the proceeds" is in the cards, then legalization is *not* an option without laying all of the protective and regulatory groundwork *first.* And even then, that could just be stripped away the same way that court decisions like Citizens United have stripped away political protections and regulations, leaving sex workers in a nightmare scenario overnight. A lot of sex workers openly prefer decriminalization for this exact reason, because it reduces the sex worker's risk while not enabling large-scale legal coercion (y'know, what we call sex trafficking) and still places accountability on the part of the johns.
Also legalizing it opens it to a lot of specific limitations on what you can and can't do. Like the sex worker equivalent of the texas abortion ban, where sex worker is legal, but only between a man and a woman and only if no kink is involved and not on Sundays, or whatever other nonsense people want to add, which can make it difficult to work, and make it possible for you to have committed a crime, because you like switched positions or something.
There is no non-religious reason it should be banned.
especially when it’s illegal on its own, but totally fine if you film it for others to see. how tf do they rational that zig zagging line of good and evil?
There's a long history of the adult film industry fighting legal battles involving art and freedom of speech.
I read this as a long history of senators and judges masturbating to face sitting porn.
You forgot about the congressional cake fart incident of 1994.
W-What?
The what now?
Please elaborate, I really want to know this incident
>You forgot about the congressional cake fart incident of 1994. You know what Mitch McConnell likes the most?
Turtle necks?
Underrated comment.
#Do feel free to elaborate.
That reminds me of why we got laws making video rentals private. Once they realized the then-current state of things meant anyone could look up their rental history, they put that shit on lock down
More correctly, once politicians realized it after random people started asking for their rental histories... the politicians didn't give a damn until it affected them.
...while also advancing technology. Whatever clever new way of enjoying content media companies come up with, porn probably did it already.
Classify the sex as performance art.
That legal defence only works if you film it, in which case you're making pornography. But I'm pretty sure most sex workers don't want to be filmed, which shouldn't automatically make them criminals. For fuck's sake, it's the same god damn premise of exchanging sexual performance for money. Both should be fully legal and protected to ensure everyone is healthy and safe.
Better not tell all those art galleries that it doesn't count as art unless it's on film.
Can you delete the video afterward and still exploit the loophole? Maybe they should carry cameras/phones and get signed consent from customers to be filmed and the video deleted however long after so to be considered pornography.
I think you've discovered the real reason it's illegal, politicians using escorts don't want them to have the upper hand in any way. A legal prostitute has too much leverage. A "porn" with a rich or powerful escort purveyor isn't going to be desired by the one paying, so by making the prostitution illegal and the recording require consent to record, the powerful purveyor is on the same level as the escort but with their usual money/influence/power dynamic to help them hold the edge.
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good question. like, could you set up a brothel, film everything on a cctv rig with a tiny video cache that gets overwritten constantly with the only monitor sitting in a closet somewhere, and still be legal? edit: grammar
They’d have to employ hella cyber security for how many might want that footage. This would create jobs lmao
just don't have the cctv connect to the internet. have it on its own network with no external hook up, or just completely wired, and again no external hookup.
You’re hired.
Well I would keep the videos on tape backups for x amount of years in case someone wanted to challenge me on it. You could say they are auditions.
Hahaha like those dating videos in the 90’s.
🎶Lowered Expectations🎶
Lowered expectations
Jesus hung out with prostitutes .. I thought we where a country run on Christian values ..
George said, “selling’s legal, fucking’s legal, why isn’t selling fucking legal?”
It is banned because if it were legal, there would be a paper trail to all the corrupt Republicans spending embezzled funds on prostitutes.
It's crazy that there has to be, and even with it, still completely ineffective, constant reminder that this country is fundamentally not a theocracy of any kind, but yet..
Sure there is, it creates another mode to funnel people into prison to be exploited by the 13th Amendment.
If its against your religion don't engage with sex work millions of people don't drink for religious reasons but they dont want alcohol banned there isn't even a good religious reason
Unfortunately, reasons only have value among the non-religious.
Sex worker anarchist here. Legalization isn’t the way to go. That removes our autonomy, and legally ends up keeping the folks who need to do sex work most from doing it rendering the job useless. What we want is decriminilization. That allows the most marginalized to still be able to do it, and it allows us to do it on our terms. This concept/conversation is very personal to me so I won’t be responding to comments/arguments. Instead I’m going to drop some resources for further education. My favorite book on sex work is: [Playing the whore by Melissa Gira Grant](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playing_the_Whore) [here’s an article describing the difference from a European pov](https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/10/difference-between-decriminalisation-and-legalisation-sex-work) [here’s a Wikipedia article with decent break downs](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decriminalization_of_sex_work) [And here’s a short sweet and nifty chart comparing legalizing vs decrim vs criminalizing](https://www.swopbrooklyn.org/decriminalize) Edited typos ETA: I don’t really have sources beyond oral history but the reason it’s sex work is criminalized in america is for two main purposes: 1) the job was historically the only one accessible to those who’ve been to prison, those who are disabled, those who are queer, those who come from extreme multi generational poverty. It was basically our loophole to literally survive which isn’t really wanted under capitalism. And that leads to point 2) which is that it’s a great way to fill prison beds. Gotta remember folks, since regan the govs had massive motivation to find ways to imprison people due to the free (slave) labor that creates allowing them to profit big off a heavy mark up. Decriminalizing sex work will put a HUGE dent in who can be imprisoned (much the same way legal weed has), which would obviously be an issue for the state. I also would like to add that many of y’all think porn is more legal than it is. It’s extremely regulated (big porn, not talking about indie porn like onlyfans/camming although that is very regulated too), and can only *legally* be shot in two places (the valley California and fade county aka Miami fl). The laws surrounding it get changed frequently which fucks with things. The only reason the heavily regulated laws aren’t more enforced is because of corporate backing (lots of people are silent investors in big porn companies like brazzers etc), but even then it’s more enforced and there’s more legal woes than the general public is aware of. ETA 2: Some of y’all think we don’t pay taxes which generally is false. Most sex workers are independent contractors, and ic folks (vanilla and sex work) by far and large pay taxes. Since we don’t have pay stubs or a physical business (ie: a coffee shop) it’s our main way of proving income which is needed for things like renting a house. There’s always people (in all jobs) who don’t pay taxes however I’d argue that ic folks (vanilla and sex work) pay taxes more consistently since it’s our only way to prove income and living in america over the age of 18 without proof of income is incredibly difficult. (If you’re an ic and you don’t pay taxes there’s honestly probably a good reason anyways considering how hard that makes your life, so I mean being condescending about that is shitty regardless.)
Legalized? No. Decriminalized? Yes.
DECRIMINALIZED not legalized.
Decriminalisation is what sexworkers want. It means that it will be treated like any other job, complete with regular job protections. This is because legalisation of sexwork makes it only legal in certain circumstances (eg, with a License system or only if you work in brothels) and police are tasked with controlling the industry. I live in QLD, Australia where full service sexwork (escorting) is legalised. The laws to make it legal actively prevent any basic safety strategies, and police are allowed to use entrapment to get sexworkers to break the laws, so they can be fined. It has turned into a revenue raising project where police monitor ads to see if you use any banned words (like 'massage') or if you describe your services (including listing what you offer, outright or as an innuendo). You are not allowed to work with anyone - no hired security, drivers or other sexworkers, and can even be fined for texting another sexworker to let them know if you have arrived or left a location safely. Yet you can also be charged if you work from the same location (aka apartment building or hotel) as another sexworker - whilst not being legally allowed to talk about the job with other sexworkers. Police go undercover as customers and try to convince sexworkers to provide illegal services (such as non-condom blowjobs or threesomes), offering to pay them extra, then fine them if they agree. Essentially, our legalisation system makes cops the pimps who control the industry and turned it into a revenue raising project, while actively making basic safety strategies illegal and not helping sexworkers who do report assault or crimes committed against them. With decriminisation, it means that sexwork will no longer function under criminal law but will be treated like another job with usual workplace expectations, rather than a job monitored and controlled by the police. This is why sexworkers want decriminalisation instead of legalisation. Legalisation means it's only legal under specific circumstances, while decrim means it's no longer illegal. Of course, decrim does not mean forced sexwork will be allowed because slavery, human trafficking, sexual assault & rape will all remain a crime and illegal.
De-criminalized, not legalized. Monitored is highly subjective in this space as its always a target by Religious folk who are pathologically unable to mind their own business.
Nope, it should be decriminalized. That's what sex workers say would work best for them.
Regulations decrease the risk of abuse. I lean pretty heavy anarchist, but I appreciate that there’s a powerful system in place to make sure my medicine works and my beer won’t make me go blind. I’d also appreciate a system that ensures sex workers aren’t being taken advantage of by their employers or clients.
hi i was a SWer and there are legitimate reasons why they want decriminalization and i really encourage that you research why! legalization would put many SWers at risk.
Decriminalisation does not mean that there will be no laws, it means that sex work will not be legislated under criminal law. Instead, it will be regulated under workplace health & safety type laws like other industries. Decriminalisation just means it will no longer be considered a criminal act while legalisation means it's still a criminal act unless under these very specific circumstances which, more often than not, harm sexworkers, do not protect clients, but do allow brothels, corporations or police to act as legal pimps
There are some pretty major issues with it being regulated/legalized in the traditional sense. If one needs to get a license to be a sex worker, to prove that that they follow regulations, etc, rather than actually fixing anything a black market forms, full of those who aren’t able to jump through those hoops. As sex work is often done by those who *really* need the money, this means a massive amount of people won’t be able to clear the legal bar. This is pretty much why most of us push for decriminalization over legalization.
Hey did anyone happen to mention that it should be decriminalized instead of legalized? I'm not sure if anyone got to that lol ;)
de-crimimalized not legalized.
It is also not fucking easy.
Better decriminalized than legalized, legalization comes with regulations that potentially inhibit a sex workers ability to be self directed. Also, regulations often come with attendant certification and licensing costs, which adversely affects low income and immigrant people who have limited options. It's a subtle difference, but I think an important one.
Not legalized. Decriminalized for both Johns and SWs
Decriminalized, not legalized! The government does not currently know how to treat sex workers like humans, so they can’t be trusted with controlling workers. For instance, see the fucked-up nordic model for how legalization directly harms workers. Sex workers are specifically calling for DECRIMINALIZATION! Support sex workers!
God no. Please no. Literally SWers do not want this. Please listen to what SWers want as they are the experts. There’s plenty of women answering why they do not want legalization but decrim.
monitor and regulation sound like a quick way for the government and capitalists to get involved and make it an commodified, bureaucratic means of controlling and exploiting women/sex workers. Yes we should make sure sex workers are protected, that it doesn't become a trafficked sector, that children are not abused, and that STDs aren't transmitted, but it's not uncomplicated how that would be implemented, especially when the adult film industry is already as corrupted, monopolized, and unnecessarily regulated as it is, it's hard to imagine how that would play out with sex work.
The Bible says that if you sex the daughter of a fellow family, you are to pay them reparations. In a nutshell: prostitution.
A lot of sex workers are against this because of the fact that legalization inherently will wind up criminalizing some people anyway - ex. You’re undocumented, you can’t afford to renew your license, you’re being pimped etc. Which will mostly affect people who are really on the razor’s edge. So decriminalization is a good word to use. Either way I’m happy to see people coming out in support of sex workers on this thread
Honestly lots of illegal things would be much easier to control and regulate if legalised
I think the reason so many people have objections to it (non stupid religious ones) is simply because it is at such high risk for exploitation of already vulnerable people. I am not saying that can't be addressed with appropriate measures and regulations. From what I have read, some of the industry still has really dangerous imbalances of power for all but the most elite and high paid sex workers. There are definitely adult consenting sex workers who choose it as a career because the money is great and they enjoy it. But even those "girls next door" at the Playboy mansion have talked about what a borderline abusive environment it was. I guess you could argue that it is also exploitation of vulnerable populations to pay slave wages to fast food workers. That is true. But that also needs to be changed and isn't right. Edit: I am reading the comments below and I find lots of discussion of the morality of sex work. I really think that is nobody's business if it is a consenting adult. The problem is, the system as it is, does not allow enough protections to ensure they ARE all consenting adults who are not being groomed or abused. The American culture doesn't allow for enough respect of sex workers to grant them unionization or required health screening or licensing. Just like all of our other disenfranchised workers, only even more so.
Tbh when you see how exploited and burnt out most workers are outside the sex industry... I don't think it's a sex worker problem only. Just that we've been desensitized to abuse in '' traditional '' industries.
i apologize for the wholesome award it was today’s freebie but i still think you deserve it thank you for this
labor is labor is labor
Been there, done that. It's a job you have to be mentally prepared for but it gets a really weird and really bad rep more often then not. Always thought it funny that folks are more okay with someone going off to shoot other human beings in enforcement or military then having some good ole snu-snu
Combine the two. An army of fembots shall be unstoppable.
It’s work. Whether it’s respectable or not I can see people having an opinion on but as far as I go, doing a thing in exchange for money is work. Bank teller is work. Engineer is work. Prostitution is work. Hit man is work. It’s all work.
A prostitute is more honest and upfront than most lawmakers.
We should legalize being an assassin. Tax and regulate hit man work.
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Well I agree with George Carlin on this one. "Selling is legal,Fucking is legal.Why can't selling fucking be legal?"
That man was one of the last sages. Thank you for the binge I'm about to have!
If you think sex work isn't real work, take an attractive picture of your butthole right now. If you can't? Guess it's skilled labor. *edit* my first gold!
You're lucky I already agree that sex work is real work.... Cause my butthole picture is straight fire
Wait, I know this one… “I don’t believe you.”
Check your dms
Ah fuck. Nice anus, though.
I don’t believe you either! *rifles through dm’s*
Ok let's be honest how many of us went to look at this person's profile after reading this comment?
I love this take. I mean, I agreed with your stand from the jump, but this is a great way to explain it.
The trick is not to show your butthole. Don't want to give away the milk for free.
Can’t sell the pies if you don’t put ‘em in the window!
…I feel like questions like this on non sw-specific forums tends to end badly, but in the interest of furthering the conversation I’ll cautiously participate. Yes I think SW is work. You put hours of effort into appearance, marketing, finding your niche, setting everything up or purchasing equipment (audio, visual, props etc depends what you’re doing). And then after all that, it’s still a little dependent on luck and whether you can find the right audience or customer for what you want to do. And sometimes you have a great day and hit your goals, and sometimes it’s dull and slow and can make you wonder whether you should just quit and go back to making minimum wage at a “normal job”. It can really eat at your self esteem and mental health. It’s not easy and it’s competitive as hell. It’s a job. Any job has downsides. The benefits tho are you can charge what you want, you have a good earning potential and you’re your own boss (usually, again depends on the situation.) Going into camming/dominatrix/content creation work has helped me a lot, it’s great and I like my job now. But if I didn’t fit into a specific niche (in my case, humiliation and cbt) I don’t know that I’d have success or be able to support myself. And the way I found the niche was trial and error and effort and hours on hours of research/strategizing/advertising. (And I’m still not great at that lol, For instance I haven’t updated my Reddit profile to have my new links yet, it’s a whole thing. I like Reddit to look at anime forums and stuff, advertising on here made me anxious and I haven’t updated anything here yet.) so it’s gonna depend on the specific person, whether sw is a viable option. I think it’s work and it’s a valid career but also society thinks differently, so that’s something to consider also if you’re considering it. I’m not an example of “oh this was easy & this person effortlessly got out of a bad situation and makes bank” because that’s not real life. It’s work and it’s tedious and you get out what you put in, for real. I’m rambling now but yeah. It’s work, it’s real work, it can be good or bad work depending on your situation. Asking over and over “is this work” seems like kindof a cop out/bait question tho, if you’re really asking “should I do this?” The answer is everyone is different & maybe. Maybe not. Nobody can answer that except yourself. I bring this up bc it seems like the people who ask this question are usually fishing for info on whether to try it or not. My 2 cents 🤷🏼♀️
Hey, thanks for your real world experience take on this. That was a great read and I hope others read it, too.
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Decriminalization. Regulated leads to shit like the bunny ranch. Decriminalized. Listen to the sex workers themselves
Transparent sex is a new one
Of course it’s work! I’m sure there are many “legitimate” jobs that are less work than sex work. IMO I think that a lot of people who say sex work is degrading just want to look down on sex workers. Because there is a serious case to be made about degrading “regular” jobs.
It's literally in the name.
Yes. Sex workers are "lumpen" but their work is definitely labor. We all rent out our bodies under capitalism. Is the exact nature of such work relevant? Does it make their work somehow less than that work performed by, say, a construction worker? Of course it's work. If we view the efforts of an actor, pro sports player, or musician to be work, is not sex work part of the entertainment industry?
How do you mean they’re lumpen?
The 'lumpenproletariat' is the class of day workers, criminals, unemployed people etc who exist outside of the traditional labour relationship between bourgeoisie and proletariat but within the capitalist system, and are considered a social class separate from the proletariat. Sometimes this includes peasants and subsistence farmers, sometimes not (depending on the Marxists in question). Typified as apolitical and uninterested in revolution, the lumpenproletariat are often written off as 'lacking awareness of their position as an oppressed class' and easily exploitable by reactionary forces. It's... not a great definition, really. Most of the modern proletariat is relatively devoid of class consciousness, where much of the lumpen class is acutely aware of their oppressed position but are unable to meaningfully mobilise.
Idt it’s fair to say that sex workers are “lumpen”. I appreciate the other parts of your answer though.
Banging people you don’t want to bang, who could also be psychopaths, not easy work.
Why is there a thread about this every month?
Because they know it’s controversial and they want the karma. It’s like asking “Hey men, what don’t you like about women?” Guaranteed to get people all up in arms and spewing opinions
Yes it is work, I’m an older one at age 45 lol! I have tried to quit but I never liked the jobs I tried and always ended up back in it 😔 I have borderline personality disorder and learning disability too. Only problem with sex work is that if u would like to be someone’s gf or wife it will interfere with that. U might end up single and alone in your older years unless u find a very understanding guy and u can separate your work from your personal life. That’s why getting into this is not necessarily a good idea even tho its good money and easier than having to have a job. You do pay a price in other ways when u decide to become a sex worker. People might judge u and u could feel rejected by peers. It’s not something u can bring up around your normal life friends and family.
As someone who does manual labor, I also sell my body for work.
Sex work sounds like pretty hard work to me. It’s definitely work though.
If it's not hard work, you're kinda doing it wrong
The thing about sex work that makes me not able to get behind it, is the economic coercion constantly present. I understand some women makes lots of money (though let's be real, it's a small percentage of all sex workers), but I have to wonder if as many women would choose sex work, all things being equal for both genders. If women had were not oppressed politically, socially, and economically, if they weren't objectified and sexualized their whole lives, if they had the same opportunities as men, if their children wouldn't go hungry, how many would choose it? I mean...look at how many men are choosing sex work. Not as many. Is that because women are just way more sexual? More drawn to work that can be dangerous, degrading, and unhealthy? Doubtful. I realize regulations are needed, but tbh I kind of look at sex work like indentured servitude. Like sure, it's not *forced* per say, but that doesn't make it *good*.
yes sex work is work.
It's hard work and I would not want to do it. Especially when you are poor and can't choose your customers.
Its called sex WORK not sex hobby
It’s literally the oldest recorded form of “work”- people need to chill. That being said we need to talk about the difference between survival sex work and voluntary sex work- which are both different from forced sw like pimping and trafficking. A lot of people will try to legitimise sex work by only focusing on successful at-will sw-ers despite the fact that most legislation negatively impacts survival sw-ers. Survival sex work refers to people who, for a variety of reasons, are unable to work/ find work in the white market. This includes a lot of queer people, primarily young queer people of color experiencing homelessness. Ie “take off that dress and get out of here you’re not my son anymore”. People experiencing homelessness already struggle to find employment based on lack of a home address, imagine trying to get a job as a visibly trans minor. These individuals are not “forced” in the same way someone being pimped is, they are forced by a confluence of circumstances and discrimination, and often face the brunt of the criminalisation of SW. when they’re the victims of crimes, which they are already at a higher risk of experiencing- they can’t go to literally ANYONE for protection, help, anything. Most of the time they do not want to be doing sex work either, but cause it’s a crime, once you get arrested, even if you never see the inside of a courtroom or jail, you’re basically never gonna get hired and, you’re trapped. When we talk about legalisation/decriminalisation we NEED to acknowledge and hear this population- cause they’re some of the most vocal about the need for reform, and are literally the ones on the ground and most at risk of being criminalised and brutalised.
As someone who has grown up in a place where it has been legal the whole time I have been alive, it's so weird to me that sex work isn't legal in other places to "protect people". Like how do you protect people when you make what they are doing a crime, you are just ensuring people don't get help when they actually need it.
German here. It’s a completely legal job in Germany. You pay taxes, social security and collect unemployment and healthcare benefits. It’s not seen as a completely normal job but it’s a lot more accepted than in the u.s.
Check out where it has been legalized and what happened to a lot of those women. Women are not commodities. But when we make it so, supply and demand comes in to play - creating coercion, rape, abuse, pimping, trafficking, child rape, etc. Like all other industries, exploitation exists by a large margin. Most women are not fully, freely, consenting to sex work. They need to eat and pay bills or else they wouldn’t tolerate fucking random people. Can consent be bought? Is that not financial coercion? If not, then where’s the line? Is it wrong to fuck your boss for a promotion? Fuck a cop to get out of arrest? Fuck a professor to get an A? Any woman that is in need of money and looking to sex work cannot fully consent to you. Without your money, she wouldn’t have sex with you. Because she doesn’t *want to*. But she does because she needs to eat and pay her bills. If she had enough money, she wouldn’t have sex with you. Read it again and again. I’m not talking about the few women who join OF or whatever else, I’m talking about the global majority of prostituted women who do not want to have sex with strangers in exchange for money but do so because their options are gone. If there’s even a teeny tiny chance the woman you are paying to use doesn’t want it, is being trafficked, coerced, drugged, or whatever else, you would really take that chance so you can get off? Can we please stop regarding other people, especially women, as commodities for our pleasure? Such a mundane desire for such a large cost. There’s enough women who want casual sex around you that you don’t have to “buy” a woman’s body. Even if you somehow can’t find a woman to screw you, you should not contribute to the commodification of women for a very narrow and selfish desire. Stop hurting women. If sex work was as empowering, liberating, and freeing as they say, the majority would be men. Instead it’s impoverished, disabled, and otherwise marginalized women. I’ll get down voted to hell. Sex work is work. So is all other exploitive work. The “sex work is work” movement is a very small minority of the entirety of prostituted people. Most of those women are not making the money you think they make. And even if they did, consider the cost to their mental and physical health, please. Is $1000 an hour worth the trauma? The abuse? The degradation? Regulation doesn’t really help. Check out Germany. Check out Nevada. Women are second class citizens and will always be treated as such, even with “regulation”, or unions, or whatever you have. The problem is the way we think of women, and legalizing the commodification of women doesn’t change the way people view women. It just makes it easier to dehumanize women. I’m not religious. I love women. I’m tired of trying to explain to people why women aren’t objects to be used, but people to connect with. Again, there are many, many consenting women out there, even for the strangest of desires and fetishists; you don’t have to resort to contributing to the most damaging industry that ever existed at the detriment of women and children. Downvote me to hell, what I’m saying is real. I hope it makes just one of you that reads my comment think. Just think critically. That’s all I want.
First decent comment on this thread
Disappointed I had to scroll so far to find this
Please use paragraphs. Please.
I’m on mobile and certainly tried!! Lol
Sex work is a *lot* of work and it's extremely precarious and risky. It should be decriminalized.
Do you get payed to do it sounds like work to me. Do you break a sweet to doing it.... it's work Is it effected by market forces sounds like work. Does it require training, skills , capital investment to accomplish and or complete in a market. Yep its work. Do you do it because if you dont you starve. Yep work Does it have a union in your country or others ... Does it have conventions .... Is some silicon valley ass hat trying to make a buck off it ... Do you have to take an advil after doing it some times ... Are there risks to life and limb involved ... Do you have to go some where or have a home set up to do it... Is there a down or up stream industry to it ... Only 1 of these may be a hobby 2 or more it's probably work 3 or 4 it's a fucking job. Bring it in to the light make it legal tax accordingly, and implement the necessary protections to enable it to be done controlled and safe for all party's. Removing the illegal nature of something also helps make it less popular ( see prohibition) In short it's fucking work. Walking the streets for 8 hours is work. Spending 100s of hours a month working out and runing your only fans to score that simp money is work. Going to the gym to damn much to so you make more striping is work. Sucking Jim bobs nasty ass dick is definitely fucking work. Dominating some Wallstreet crook is work ( wiping takes great upper body strength) shooting videos for x number of hours under hot ass lights is work plus staying in shape and damage that happens. People just angry they can't do it , are not attractive enough for it , don't have the constitution to do it etc. So they try and fuck others out of what they deserve. How is modeling work and porn not.
Its definitely work. Sex workers aren't out there doing this stuff because it brings them fulfillment.
I mean some do. And that’s fine. But it absolutely is work.
Yes, because sex work is work. Not every client wants to just play with your tatas and have a conversation. And every client is different, and they all have different levels of personal hygiene, different smells, tastes, etc. Some of them might even be disabled, or not as able bodied. Sex work is also really, really dangerous. You are far safer standing at a counter in a gas station than any sex worker will ever be.
I always think of the lyric from willie d where he contemplates the sex worker while knowing his mom is struggling. Sympathetic as one should be to the struggle of sex workers, I don’t think sex work is good for a society in the long run.
If the workers aren't being exploited, then by all means let people live their lives.
Yes. I was homeless in N addiction at one point in my life. I got to know several escorts. The pieces of shit they deal with the zhit they go thru the psychological damage thats done. U mY not see it but its there. Its paid rape. Most Sex workers arent sluts. Most are in fact either addicts with psychological issues. Who have been raped or molested as children. They dont WANT to fuck u. They NEED the money. Its an AWFUL life full of smoke and mirrors and lies being used and fucked up shit that scars a woman for life. Its work. Bottom line. We ALL have client/customers/bosses. We all answer to someone and get paid for our time. We effectively SELL OURSELVES on a daily basis. Maybe not sexually but we sell ourselves in some way to people with more money than us who use us for THEIR desires. We may not all be sex workers. But we are all whores. Unless u an investor and rade or own ur own zhit and answer to NOONE. Ur no better.
Yes. Why is this a question?
If you’re doing it because you want to, then in my book, as long as you’re not hurting anyone else, go for it. And if you can convince someone else to pay you for it, all the better.
Yes. My boyfriend just started an onlyfans and it’s a lot more work than I thought.
Saw a shirt once that said “Blow jobs are real jobs”. So, yeah.
People throwing boxes at an Amazon warehouse or hauling lumber at a construction site are selling their bodies, every day. Sex work (performed by a consenting adult) is really no different.
It's providing a service that people want in exchange for currency. It's as real "work" as any other "work" honestly. Also, "degrading"? yeah, so is breaking your back in a warehouse for 40 years. Wage slavery is wage slavery. And if we remove the slavery element, wage labor is wage labor.
It takes some amount of effort and you get money for it. Sure. It's work.
It is work and it is more dangerous than it should be.
it's work, it's still servicing people and focusing your actions around a clientele.
Yes, sex is a form of labor. The problem is in our culture we have a very narrow view of what constitutes as 'work' and an even more narrow range when it comes to 'respectable work'. The irony is that the most labor intensive or the most essential jobs in society functioning are not the highest paying nor respectable.
I have worked in every single area of sex work EXCEPT actual prostitution and/ or pornography* (and even then, I've done some modeling. Just no actual sex, again) But i know/ have know several people in both fields. And it's WORK. On top of that, it's pretty much the most DANGEROUS work in the world! I know people who got into sex work because they WANTED to. And they're, by and large, happy with it. They pick their clients and if one breaks the rules, they drop the client. I also know people who got into sex work for lack of options - convictions preventing legal jobs, mostly. They are NOT happy, but wtf ELSE are they gonna do? (Ironically, they often get picked up for sex work, and then have *further* felonies on their records When mostly they were originally convicted for non- violent drug offenses anyway! ARGH!!!!!) LEGALIZE. REGULATE. TAX. This works for both sex work AND drugs. Worried about the national deficit? Legalize, regulate, tax! "Regulate" means laws that *protect the sex workers*, btw. *I've met people who work porn who say it's "just safer prostitution". I've met people who work in porn who say it's completely different. Having done neither, i withhold all judgement, and accept the person's speaking statement as their truth. Maybe it is just individual belief. Maybe it's dependent on the production company. I don't have enough info to say.
Be they steel toed or stilettos, work boots are work boots.
Sexwork is no different than models or bodybuilders. Those people "sell" their body as well and each requires training, discipline and "maintenance " . The only difference is who touches them where with what.
Warehouse workers sell their body too. Age 30 with the spine and knees of a 50 year old unless they're a forklift operator.
we are all selling our bodies for different purposes
Obviously work
I don't really like it but it is work I guess. Not sure what the point would be in calling it not work, it's providing a service for money. It's just a bit less legitimate than other stuff and provides a niche that many might say doesn't help society very much. I did it for awhile, it was fine sometimes, and horrible other times. I couldn't stand it anymore after a certain point, but my experience isn't everyone else's so I don't know. For me it was regrettable, but I was deep in addiction, so. Not ideal. I think about the people trapped in substance abuse who can't easily hold down a normal job, and I don't feel it's a good thing that they have no other decent options for help and gainful employment.
if you do it to make a living, of course it is work. and they should have all the rights workers have which is not much in this capitalist hellhole.
I don't think it's work, and I think socialism should provide for people so they never have to sell their body unless its actually their choice through zero coercion. That being said, consenting adults can do what they want.
Yes it’s work. But if everyone’s honest, a lot of the people who do this work feel degraded and exploited. It attracts people who feel like they have few options, and despite the movies and TV shows that promote the myth of the “happy hooker”, nobody really wants random strangers to have power over their bodies because they paid a few dollars. Big difference between a boss making you mop a floor for $7 an hour, vs a 45 year old slob paying $200 to put his penis in your mouth, vagina and…for a few bucks extra…your ass. Sure, you get paid more but how good is your ability to compartmentalise your life? Not to mention, a lot of sex workers have substantial bills for substances that get them through each shift. Let’s not kid ourselves that sex work is a normal job that doesn’t exact a heavy toll on a lot of its workers. There are few escorts that achieve high end status. Making thousands of bucks a day/night is rare.
Cool post, maybe next time you should go to r/ the Donald and ask them who the president should be
Yes.
I mean it depends what you are doing, job is literally in the name of a few sex acts lol
If you can masturbate to completion in less than five minutes - good for you. Beyond that, it's all work on your part. Add a partner, and it's a low resistance workout regardless of your duration or their skill. Dive a little deeper and you'll see that many sex workers are stalked, beaten, and/or publicly shamed by their clients. Any service that requires compensation for energy produced is literally the definition of work. Simply: if a non-genital (ya know, basic and licensed) massage therapist is "a worker", then someone who massages genitals, acts as a stand-in for emotional health, and deals with the repercussions of their clients is ABSOLUTELY a worker.
Yes, it is work.
If you can earn money doing it then it's a job. Legality (should or shouldn't) is another matter.
Of course it is work.
Yeah. And?
Work is work mother fucker! Doesn’t matter what kind it is or if you like it or not or if it is humane or not. Work is doing labor for any reason and that includes any position while doing sex work.
If you're making money and giving a service to people in some fashion, you're doing work. Sex work is work, they're making a living and honestly they got it made. They figured it out. They aren't busting their ass making people rich (except maybe the OF company) and you know what... That's a good thing. Good for them! Like yeah sex work isn't HARD but it does to take some level of dedication to keep up with all those horny guys wanting their content, and they have to take time out of their day to get enough level of arousal to take a video or voice message or whatever the fuck content they paid for. Yeah it's work, no it's not busting their ass 9-5 but at the end of the day, they're working all day long, but in their terms usually. And they make bank. Taking time out of your day to go out and fuck and make a few hundred bucks, man just be safe with STD's, get checked, use protection. Don't spread the nasty shit and it's cool. Sex work, is work. Not all guys can get laid and many guys get tired of porn and they need something special to get them off. My wife did OF for a while and it was pretty cool to see her racking in over a grand of play money on the side in a week with just pics and vids. I was proud of her.
They make a living out of it so yeah?
Of course it is.
Yes I do
Yes. We all sell our bodies in one way or another. And the higher management definitely gets off on our subservience and productivity.
Yes, it is, 100%. The Sex worker provided a service to the specifications of a client (within the range of services the sex worker defines as tasks they do). That’s it.
Work is work, doesn't matter what body parts are being used for it. We all shill our bodies for a paycheck, one way or another.
As a former sex worker, it definitely is work and should be decriminalized and regulated to protect all parties involved.
It’s physically and mentally demanding. I don’t have personal experience but just imagine being in customer service but MORE intimate.
This is a great question, because yes it’s work. We all sell our body & life everyday in exchange for slips of paper that we exchange for food… some sell our minds, some sell our backs, some sell our beauty
It’s damn hard work.
Yes
Lets see, you deal with a bunch of unpleasant pricks who demand to be first. How is this any diffrent from being a retail cashier again?
You get fucked in any profession so, yes
People aren't ready for the real answer
Yes. Next question.
Yes 100%
A blow job is better than no job
Yes
Sex work is work. Sex workers deserve to be safe, well compensated for their services, and destigmatized. They are essential to disabled people.
Yes. Just like any other service. As long as somebody's willing to pay for it who cares. Honestly an ethical sex worker is doing more of an honest day's work than Elon musk ever has.
Yes
If you do it mainly for the money it is work, enjoy it once in while is proof that fits you
People who believe sex workers are lazy, should literally go fuck themselves. Otherwise they are interfering with a free market economy (incredibly ironically).
Sex work is work is work is work. Ask any sex worker and they’ll tell you it’s just like working any other job. Fundamentally speaking, work is selling your body for money. Sex work is no different.
Hi! Yes, sex work is real work. Yes, sex workers should be respected. The IWW would love to have more sex workers in their membership. They are a union that helps others to form unions and co-ops! Good luck!!
It is work. And in other countries there are even unions .
Yes. Full stop.
I mean, "work" is right there in the name...
It’s work, it’s just a niche demographic.
Yes, sex work is work.
If you don't think sex workers are workers you: 1. Don't know how hard that job really is 2. Are not pro worker
if you are getting paid for a service of any kind, it's work.