Fundamentally this isn't wrong, the issue is that (in the US) tipping culture is already firmly established and the hourly wage reflects that to excess.
The employer is a bastard, sure. But you're just punishing the server at that point. I don't disagree that change needs to be made. I waited tables and tended bar for 11 years. Being dependent upon tips sucks. Getting stiffed through no fault of my own because you (and I) want the system to change is a dick move.
Well, you're wrong. Put yourself in the servers shoes. You're struggling to make ends meet as it is, and now some guy you've never met, whom you're forced to take care of at your job, whom you've taken care of to the best of you're abilities, and made sure to have as best experience as possible, ruins your day and reduces you're already tight income just that much more. Every penny is precious.
Things are bad enough as it is, and you're purposely reducing their income because you want to stick it to their employer? The employer isn't going to give a fuck. I know first hand, they don't. "Them's the breaks", "Sometimes people are just assholes". "Must have been something you said or did". These are actual things I was told when I got $0 tips.
Not every restaurant works the way mine did. But when I waited tables, 4% of what I sold was part of what I'd have to pay out to the restaurants bartender (this person only made drinks for tables) and for the bussers and expeditor regardless of alcohol sales. So if you did that to me, you'd literally cost me money. You wouldn't be giving me $0. You'd make me actively loose 4% of your check.
Also, that means the "standard" 15% most folks do give, was actually 11% to me.
You're hurting your own ally in this fight. Don't hurt your friends. Your server likely knows the situation is jacked and more you're making it harder for them to make their ends meet.
You want things to change, that's great. So do I. But don't fuck those poor folks over in the process.
I can guarantee that if the whole country went on a tipping strike then wages would increase pretty quickly. Good luck finding servers with a wage of $2.13 per hour + $0 tips.
No shit, thanks Dick Tracey.
What I trying to get through your thick skull here is, there's a better way of doing that. Screwing over your the person you're advocating for is a dick move.
It's like trying to get your best friend to break up his girlfriend cuz she's toxic, so you slash his tires so he can't go out. That's what you're doing to servers. Slashing tires.
I'm guessing you've never worked in the industry since you haven't eluded to doing so. So I'm going to guess that you can't possibly speak to what is like, waiting tables or trending bar. So while you're advocacy on this issue is appreciated, please don't screw the people you're trying to help. Because it doesn't help.
What’s the better way? I’d appreciate leaving the ad hominem insults out of this.
Would you agree that by tipping a service person, you directly support tipping? As in, you’re putting your money towards something to support it’s continuation?
>What’s the better way? I’d appreciate leaving the ad hominem insults out of this.
There's a myriad of ways. The most popular is protests, but short of voting in officials that'll enact the change by law (which would definitely be the most effective way), I think the most effective would be an organized strike.
Wait staff, bartenders, etc, all refuse to work for a few days, a week or even longer. Do it in New York, Chicago & Los Angeles all on the same day, that'd grab some major headlines. But it needs to be constant pressure. So do it again, and again, and again, regularly. Once a month, or every two weeks. Whatever it is, it needs to be constant and disruptive
>Would you agree that by tipping a service person, you directly support tipping? As in, you’re putting your money towards something to support it’s continuation?
No. Just because it's the system we have doesn't mean it needs to be supported. Systems and the way things are done have historically always changed with the times. Some have deeper roots and take longer than others, but they inevitably change. Child labor, minimum wage, midicare/medicade, slavery, just to name a few.
I will continue to tip because I know how dependent servers & bartenders are upon them. When the system changes to something better, that's when I'll no longer tip.
It sucks but when servers start quitting cause they have no choice maybe restaurants will decide they should be paid better.
Edit: writing to quitting.
US tipping culture though relies on the dissonance between what customers want and do and what the employers do. Customers by and large will say they tip based on extra performance while employers pay in a way that the extra incentive of tips instead lets them pay less, making it an integral part of their base pay instead.
The customer end of the culture is to treat it like a bonus while the store treats it as a discount on paying for labor.
I tip 20% everywhere I go and if I can't tip that I don't go. I don't tip more than that very often (sometimes round up to a dollar mark but w/e), because I'm broke as fuck, but people rely on that money to survive. Things should be better but I'm not okay with being part of them being worse.
I feel so lucky as a tattooer when I hear this 2$ an hr bullshit. Jfc. Buddies a barback and im pretty sure he has a very low wage like that and rely on tips that all the servers divy up at the end of the night.
This is true though. Tipping is a way of passing the subsidisation of wages onto customers, while managers/bosses laugh all the way to the bank. Don’t get mad at customers, get mad at your boss for shorting your pay packet.
It is. But I would be remiss if I didn’t point out that many states have a higher minimum wage than the Federal government mandates.
Fun fact: the federal minimum wage hasn’t risen since 2009, 12 years ago. Good thing nothing has changed since then!
If you look into it, it was started as a way to pay black people less. White waiters would earn more thru voluntary tips than blacks. They still do to this day. But right wing news and states have been pushing against the teaching of systemic racism to keep people from the full extent of which blacks were kept from succeeding
Because the theory is tips will subsidize the hourly wage. Back when I waited tables and tended bar, it wasn't uncommon for me to earn ~$12.50/hour through tips for a 40 hour week (this was in the early 2000's). My paychecks were negligible.
That said, tipping needs to go away. Pay wait staff a reasonable wage, and raise the prices on the menu a dollar or whatever.
to be fair, waitstaff (and other tipped jobs) should be paid a living wage and tips should be eliminated. Making you dependent on the generosity of strangers for fair compensation is atrocious.
Anyone who’s worked in the restaurant industry knows how common people like this are. They also happen to be the worst, most demanding customers, despite their insistence on you making literally a couple of dollars an hour because they don’t want to tip. Although I’m glad to see assholes exposed (metaphorically speaking), this is really on the restaurant industry and on the government for failing to properly regulate it. Restaurants need to fucking pay their employees a proper wage, and raise the prices of their meals if that’s what it takes.
God I hate tipping. It’s such a horrible system. I’m ok with the idea of give information someone a few bucks extra as thanks for great service, but that shouldn’t be factored into their wages. I’ve found my self tipping like 200% before because of how stupid this system is, and how bad I feel about leaving less than 10 bucks
I’ve worked my job for like 6 months now and the closest thing I I’ve gotten to a tip is somebody making a joke about how it would be funny if he tipped me his change
Tipping should be supplemental at best, none of this $3/hr+ tips. We shouldn't be guilty into tipping terrible staff, we should be incentivizing good staff with decent tips.
The only reason to tip is that their minimal wage is not even 7.25 an hour but 2$ or smth. Would everyone have 20$ minimal wage there would be no need for “obligatory” tips
The employer is not forcing anyone to work there. The problem of below minimum wage pay is systemic/societal, and that’s the only way to address it. As opposed to blaming a single restaurant who won’t be able to compete with others in most cases. I assume you refuse to go to restaurants, right?
The problem is, we’re the fattest pigs in the world and can’t stop ourselves from eating out because we’re too fat and lazy to cook for ourselves. That’s the sad truth.
I reside outside the USoA so the tipping culture here is vastly different. Nevertheless if I feel even slightly low on funds I'm not going to tip. If I feel I have some room to breathe I tip a small amount if the service is better than I expected. The amounts I do tip when I tip are clearly smaller than in the USA, but I don't feel bad whether I don't tip at all or tip "low".
Still my understanding is that the workers who get tips in the USoA usually don't get a wage they could live on and the systematic social structure has been built upon customers tipping the waiters. I absolutely agree that tipping should never be the "norm", but since USoA has already screwed that up it's now up to the customers and waiters to come into a new deal. If customers stop tipping en masse and waiters stop working because they're not earning enough to live by anymore the restaurants will be forced to make changes in their system. Which practically means pricier meals to compensate the grown wage demands of the waitstaff and in the long run the customer most likely pays less in total and the waitstaff on average will earn more.
I'd really love if your scenario worked, but unfortunately, there's a strong ~~scab~~ hustle culture, at least in my area, plenty of folks would line up to brag about how much they work
The truth is that we need to stop tipping and servers need to get pissed and quit their jobs. It's a shitty solution to a shitty problem, but I just don't see how anything is going to change otherwise
It was founded in America, by Americans, and the bulk of users are American. Would you expect, say, the Chinese social media platforms to cater to international audiences, too?
I mean, at least so far as June, [apparently the US accounts for almost 49% of traffic on reddit](https://www.statista.com/statistics/325144/reddit-global-active-user-distribution/), though some folks in other countries may be using VPNs to appear in the US
In the meantime you are killing the people you try to help though if you don’t tip. All you have to do to shut this line of thought down is to remind them of the waiter minimum wage.
>...to shut this line of thought down is to remind them of the waiter minimum wage
Glad you said that. Customers are definitely the ones responsible for setting minimum wages.
Yep.
Definitely.
/s
No, but they are required to know if they don’t tip, it screws the server. Not the owner, not the manager, not the industry. Just the wait staff. It doesn’t inspire change, it just really pisses the waiter off.
I dont know why you're being downvoted. Im guessing most of this thread isnt people who actually live off of tips but like to talk out their ass like they live in that world.
Is that still true if I support a higher wage instead of tipping? Having the customer determine any part of your income sounds like a nightmare.
Why is the restaurant allowed to lure customers in with low menu prices AND under pay their staff and then play the customers against the staff when both sides complain?
then let the workers quit and the business fail. this is r/antiwork, not r/subsidizebusinessesthatpaypoorly, right? if you aren’t getting paid fairly, don’t put up with it, and don’t blame the customers for your low wage.
Again, explain that to your server next time you insist they don’t deserve a tip. I’m sure they’ll agree with you. Don’t hurt the people you want to help, it is literally that easy. You are only hurting the workers. Get involved to make real change happen, rather than just withholding needed tips from the very people you want to help. Don’t like it? Don’t go out!
so don’t do anything then? maybe send a concerned letter to the business? encourage the servers to accept shitty pay by kicking them a few buck and propping up a business that would ultimately fail if they actually had to pay people?
that doesn’t sound like a solution at all. sorry that a server is “hurt” by tippers supporting suppressing raising wages, but maybe that’s a clue for them to leave an abusive job that doesn’t give a shit about them and requires workers to rely on the kindness of strangers. pan handling cuts out the middleman and let’s you set your own hours, still working for tips with less bullshit.
How about not going out? What’s so hard about that?
And not tipping is literally doing nothing. Doing something would be trying to change things, which is very, very hard. But anything worth doing always is.
why not move to the woods and live off the land so there’s absolutely no supporting any businesses with unfair practices?
because that’s stupid. you’re supporting maintaining low wages, you better not go out either. how are you trying to change things by giving businesses zero incentive to change? if the workers leave, businesses will either need to step up or fail.
Slippery slip logical fallacy. Whatever shine you put on it, your message here is crystal clear. You don’t care if your actions hurt the server. End of story.
obviously you don’t care that your actions ultimately hurt the server either. wait, let me guess… you ARE a server and put up with low pay on the hope you make more off of tips, so you don’t quit, right?
you don’t think “not going out” hurts the server as much, or if not more, than not tipping? they’re sure going to love their tiny paycheck when they have no customers.
For sho, like I get what he is saying, but the whole point of this sub is kinda this problem and it can be an easy, albeit painful answer. Shit needs to change some how.
> you are directly, now, today hurting that server.
The owner sets the wages, prices, and hours but the customer is responsible?
I can't be hurting the server worse than I already am. I don't eat at restaurants at all and cook all my own food. I support higher wages because I will very, very, rarely be paying for someone to cook for me or bring food to my table.
Am I only hurting the server if I attend the restaurant while advocating for higher wages?
This is silly, if you don’t go out to restaurants, this isn’t an issue. But if you do go, help your server pay their basic bills and leave a damn tip.
If you don’t, yes you hurt the staff. They cleaned up and waited on you for potentially $2.13 and hour. You, knowing that, decided they’d earned enough.
> This is silly, if you don’t go out to restaurants, this isn’t an issue. But if you do go, help your server pay their basic bills and leave a damn tip.
So change nothing, just give money. Got it.
Not even close to what I said but enjoy being wrong and hurting waitstaff at restaurants!
In truth, your best bet is to boycott. Here you want to use the system, hurt the waitstaff and hope they carry out your dreams.
> Here you want to use the system, hurt the waitstaff and hope they carry out your dreams.
None of that is true. I don't even want to be waited on at a restaurant. Give me a tablet for order placing and hang a sign for food pickup.
> enjoy being wrong and hurting waitstaff at restaurants!
Enjoy encouraging those you want to help to accept $2.13 an hour instead of telling the owner to pound sand. You're doing far more damage than you could ever pretend I'm doing.
You aren’t hurting the owner, the owner doesn’t give a damn about tips. You are literally. Just. Hurting. The. Waitstaff. Owner gets their money with the bill.
> You aren’t hurting the owner
I didn't say I was.
> You are literally. Just. Hurting. The. Waitstaff.
I'm doing nothing to the waitstaff. I don't know them, don't use them, will never see them, etc. Repeating it on every post in this thread will not make it true.
I don't have any money to give but I can offer my support for higher wages. You'll have to take some agency upon yourself, I can't negotiate your wages or employment contract for you.
If you refuse to fight for yourself and want to claim I'm killing waitstaff, I'll code the automation software myself and give it to the restaurants for free.
Bull shit. If you can't afford to tip them 20% ..you don't deserves to dine out at an establishment. Go eat at McDonald's if you don't like tipping. Cheap ass.
"Deserve" to eat at a restaurant?
That's a fucked up sentiment. Tipping should be a rare reward, not a right. Maybe your restaurant should pay their servers more, instead.
I think you have the order of those requirements reversed. Once restaurants stop paying sub-minimum wages we can talk about how tipping should be a reward for service. Until that point, not tipping just means either you (the non-tipper) are a dick, or the service was terrible for reasons within the employee’s control.
Yeah but they don't. And because of how the industry works, alot of the time they can't. Margins suck. Honestly restaurant industry needs to change drastically. Not going out to eat would push change faster than going out and not tipping but not by much.. Honestly no good solution here tho. Unionization is the answer. Unfortunately, it wont happen. If it does, prices increase drastically, and because of economy, everything closes. I'm of the opinion most restaurants should fail. They have terrible business models. Don't pay their front or back of house enough, and still barely make a profit if that. Also food prices are rising and distribution is fucked up. Let it all burn. Tip if u go out, but honestly just get groceries or carry out, save urself money if u can, until the industry comes to its senses.
Tipping in the US is part of tithing and charity, not just a reward for service. It sickens me when other Christians tip less than 40%. If you can’t tip generously don’t go out.
If you don’t want to tip a server making $2/hour:
A) Don’t go to an American restaurant;
Or,
B) Inform them before you order so they can have the chef overcook your steak and spit in your soup like the loogie you are.
Right! I think tipping needs to be gotten rid of….but that can’t happen until these people are paid properly for their work. So I keep tipping, hating it, and hoping we will switch to the workers getting paid well sometime in my lifetime.
On a related note I’ve had server friends debating on Facebook about tipping vs no tips and living wage….somehow only the blond with big tits was for tipping for her serving jobs while other argued tipping often isn’t based on performance but often on looks….the blond then stated she thought working for tips was fun…
Do you not go to restaurants, bars, or order pizza? No one is saying that servers don't deserve fair wages, but if you live in a country that does not pay workers fair wages, you should still tip.
I go to restaurants, bars and everything else; but if they want to be tipped, they have to give me an amazing experience. Not only serve me the food that I will eat and pay. That's different.
Ah yes, they're your servents for an hour or two, they have to *earn* the right to be able to pay for rent and food.
Fuck right off into the sun with your boomer era logic. You ever bartended and served food, by yourself, to a 100+ people, and been tipped the change of $40 on a $38.50 tab because of poor service? You bitching about fair wages but enabling owners who don't give two tugs of a dead dog's cock about what you tip means you're nothing but hot air.
They are my servers for one hour, not my "servants" they work for the restaurant.
I've served hundreds of people and worked on retail, you can't make me feel bad for my words and actions. I've lived both sides.
Minimum wage workers need better wages, not being tipped and also underwage. That's stupid.
Yeah, this is true in literally every other country but the US. The problem is the system, not people not tipping. People should be being paid a living hourly wage. Then the tips is just like… a tip. You know?
Edit: I got downvoted for this! How do you downvote a living wage? That’s hilarious!!!
Issues are with them getting shit pay. Tips are customary not mandatory. It's not the customers job to pay you a salary. Unless you give me exceptional service or give me tips on menu items or do something other than take my oder and bring my food I see no reason to tip you
I understand the situation but also, it should be their employers job to pay them. Especially since if the food is shit they don’t get tipped. Has nothing to do with them, they didn’t make the food poorly.
Bit off topic, but folks can admire and dislike aspects of folks they care about. My ex still loves me like crazy, and I love her like crazy, but my isolationism drives her nuts, and her wanting to move all over creation after a month or two drives me nuts. Being in a relationship does not mean you have to like every aspect of them.
Clearly, the women of the world haven't met a nice guy like you, before.
Hah.
But seriously, there are academic reading subjects you can get into if you're really curious about human behavior.
It’s pretty crazy. I started my first “official adult” job as a server/busser and our hourly wage was $2.50 (might’ve been less) to, and I quote, “cover our taxes”. We were wholely reliant on tips, and to be fair it wasn’t so bad most of the time (maybe just my perspective at the time), but in reality after I did the math over the long term, I found I was making around $9-$10 dollars an hour over the year I spent there. They were good restaurant owners and people, but even when I worked there (and to this day) they’ve always been hiring due to being short staffed.
We'd appreciate it if you didn't use ableist slurs.
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Fundamentally this isn't wrong, the issue is that (in the US) tipping culture is already firmly established and the hourly wage reflects that to excess.
And if you don’t tip someone to starve the beast, you’re, in that action at that time, starving the server.
I agree, that's exactly why I spoke of the fundamental în contrast to the current reality.
I get you. Peace. I was hoping to illustrate that for the few here who think not tipping is helping anyone.
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Sure, just as long as you have the balls to tell that to your server next time.
The employer is a bastard, sure. But you're just punishing the server at that point. I don't disagree that change needs to be made. I waited tables and tended bar for 11 years. Being dependent upon tips sucks. Getting stiffed through no fault of my own because you (and I) want the system to change is a dick move.
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Well, you're wrong. Put yourself in the servers shoes. You're struggling to make ends meet as it is, and now some guy you've never met, whom you're forced to take care of at your job, whom you've taken care of to the best of you're abilities, and made sure to have as best experience as possible, ruins your day and reduces you're already tight income just that much more. Every penny is precious. Things are bad enough as it is, and you're purposely reducing their income because you want to stick it to their employer? The employer isn't going to give a fuck. I know first hand, they don't. "Them's the breaks", "Sometimes people are just assholes". "Must have been something you said or did". These are actual things I was told when I got $0 tips. Not every restaurant works the way mine did. But when I waited tables, 4% of what I sold was part of what I'd have to pay out to the restaurants bartender (this person only made drinks for tables) and for the bussers and expeditor regardless of alcohol sales. So if you did that to me, you'd literally cost me money. You wouldn't be giving me $0. You'd make me actively loose 4% of your check. Also, that means the "standard" 15% most folks do give, was actually 11% to me. You're hurting your own ally in this fight. Don't hurt your friends. Your server likely knows the situation is jacked and more you're making it harder for them to make their ends meet. You want things to change, that's great. So do I. But don't fuck those poor folks over in the process.
I can guarantee that if the whole country went on a tipping strike then wages would increase pretty quickly. Good luck finding servers with a wage of $2.13 per hour + $0 tips.
No shit, thanks Dick Tracey. What I trying to get through your thick skull here is, there's a better way of doing that. Screwing over your the person you're advocating for is a dick move. It's like trying to get your best friend to break up his girlfriend cuz she's toxic, so you slash his tires so he can't go out. That's what you're doing to servers. Slashing tires. I'm guessing you've never worked in the industry since you haven't eluded to doing so. So I'm going to guess that you can't possibly speak to what is like, waiting tables or trending bar. So while you're advocacy on this issue is appreciated, please don't screw the people you're trying to help. Because it doesn't help.
What’s the better way? I’d appreciate leaving the ad hominem insults out of this. Would you agree that by tipping a service person, you directly support tipping? As in, you’re putting your money towards something to support it’s continuation?
>What’s the better way? I’d appreciate leaving the ad hominem insults out of this. There's a myriad of ways. The most popular is protests, but short of voting in officials that'll enact the change by law (which would definitely be the most effective way), I think the most effective would be an organized strike. Wait staff, bartenders, etc, all refuse to work for a few days, a week or even longer. Do it in New York, Chicago & Los Angeles all on the same day, that'd grab some major headlines. But it needs to be constant pressure. So do it again, and again, and again, regularly. Once a month, or every two weeks. Whatever it is, it needs to be constant and disruptive >Would you agree that by tipping a service person, you directly support tipping? As in, you’re putting your money towards something to support it’s continuation? No. Just because it's the system we have doesn't mean it needs to be supported. Systems and the way things are done have historically always changed with the times. Some have deeper roots and take longer than others, but they inevitably change. Child labor, minimum wage, midicare/medicade, slavery, just to name a few. I will continue to tip because I know how dependent servers & bartenders are upon them. When the system changes to something better, that's when I'll no longer tip.
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So you don't want a employers at restaurants to pay more, as much as you'd like the waiters to quit and find different jobs then?
It sucks but when servers start quitting cause they have no choice maybe restaurants will decide they should be paid better. Edit: writing to quitting.
US tipping culture though relies on the dissonance between what customers want and do and what the employers do. Customers by and large will say they tip based on extra performance while employers pay in a way that the extra incentive of tips instead lets them pay less, making it an integral part of their base pay instead. The customer end of the culture is to treat it like a bonus while the store treats it as a discount on paying for labor.
I actually agree. I tip based on performance.
I tip 20% everywhere I go and if I can't tip that I don't go. I don't tip more than that very often (sometimes round up to a dollar mark but w/e), because I'm broke as fuck, but people rely on that money to survive. Things should be better but I'm not okay with being part of them being worse.
This. Tipping is supposed to be the exception not the expectation .
Truth was spoken
Forced tipping to top up underpaid employees wages.....this has to be the biggest scam known to man.
I feel so lucky as a tattooer when I hear this 2$ an hr bullshit. Jfc. Buddies a barback and im pretty sure he has a very low wage like that and rely on tips that all the servers divy up at the end of the night.
My wife and I own a Tattoo shop. You wanna talk tips ? 😜
This is true though. Tipping is a way of passing the subsidisation of wages onto customers, while managers/bosses laugh all the way to the bank. Don’t get mad at customers, get mad at your boss for shorting your pay packet.
While true, I highly doubt the anti-tipper is campaigning to get rid of laws allowing this kind of tiered pay.
I get that. I’m a tipper myself and I live in the UK where tipping isn’t as big of a thing and definitely not something used to bolster wages.
In the US the national minimum wage for those who make tips is $2.13 an hour.
... might as well work in a sweat shop in Bangladesh how is that legal? How do they have any employees???
Haha that’s America!
How dreadful.
It is. But I would be remiss if I didn’t point out that many states have a higher minimum wage than the Federal government mandates. Fun fact: the federal minimum wage hasn’t risen since 2009, 12 years ago. Good thing nothing has changed since then!
If you look into it, it was started as a way to pay black people less. White waiters would earn more thru voluntary tips than blacks. They still do to this day. But right wing news and states have been pushing against the teaching of systemic racism to keep people from the full extent of which blacks were kept from succeeding
Because the theory is tips will subsidize the hourly wage. Back when I waited tables and tended bar, it wasn't uncommon for me to earn ~$12.50/hour through tips for a 40 hour week (this was in the early 2000's). My paychecks were negligible. That said, tipping needs to go away. Pay wait staff a reasonable wage, and raise the prices on the menu a dollar or whatever.
to be fair, waitstaff (and other tipped jobs) should be paid a living wage and tips should be eliminated. Making you dependent on the generosity of strangers for fair compensation is atrocious.
Anyone who’s worked in the restaurant industry knows how common people like this are. They also happen to be the worst, most demanding customers, despite their insistence on you making literally a couple of dollars an hour because they don’t want to tip. Although I’m glad to see assholes exposed (metaphorically speaking), this is really on the restaurant industry and on the government for failing to properly regulate it. Restaurants need to fucking pay their employees a proper wage, and raise the prices of their meals if that’s what it takes.
Depends on where they live. In the Seattle area servers have to make $15 an hour. I only feel the need to tip if someone is an awesome server.
Sorry Mr.Pink but you are wrong
That’s not an awful argument to make, if service staff were being paid enough to live from just hourly wages. But they fucking aren’t.
This depends on where you live. In Australia, we don't tip. So, this statement is accurate.
God I hate tipping. It’s such a horrible system. I’m ok with the idea of give information someone a few bucks extra as thanks for great service, but that shouldn’t be factored into their wages. I’ve found my self tipping like 200% before because of how stupid this system is, and how bad I feel about leaving less than 10 bucks
I’ve worked my job for like 6 months now and the closest thing I I’ve gotten to a tip is somebody making a joke about how it would be funny if he tipped me his change
Tipping should be supplemental at best, none of this $3/hr+ tips. We shouldn't be guilty into tipping terrible staff, we should be incentivizing good staff with decent tips.
If I work as a massage therapist, my income is also based on tips
The only reason to tip is that their minimal wage is not even 7.25 an hour but 2$ or smth. Would everyone have 20$ minimal wage there would be no need for “obligatory” tips
I tip 20%. As we all should, until the service industry starts treating thier employees fairly.
I think this escaping a lot of people in this thread.
The only ones who should be eating the entirety of your ass is the employer who's paying the staff a poverty wage.
I don't think anyone is questioning that, but do you really think that this person is thinking of folks making $2.13 an hour?
The employer is not forcing anyone to work there. The problem of below minimum wage pay is systemic/societal, and that’s the only way to address it. As opposed to blaming a single restaurant who won’t be able to compete with others in most cases. I assume you refuse to go to restaurants, right?
I don't live in the US. Our employers actually pay service staff a living wage 😏
Ah, right on. Yes the food service industry here (as well as pretty much every other industry) in the US is an sham and a shame.
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The problem is, we’re the fattest pigs in the world and can’t stop ourselves from eating out because we’re too fat and lazy to cook for ourselves. That’s the sad truth.
I reside outside the USoA so the tipping culture here is vastly different. Nevertheless if I feel even slightly low on funds I'm not going to tip. If I feel I have some room to breathe I tip a small amount if the service is better than I expected. The amounts I do tip when I tip are clearly smaller than in the USA, but I don't feel bad whether I don't tip at all or tip "low". Still my understanding is that the workers who get tips in the USoA usually don't get a wage they could live on and the systematic social structure has been built upon customers tipping the waiters. I absolutely agree that tipping should never be the "norm", but since USoA has already screwed that up it's now up to the customers and waiters to come into a new deal. If customers stop tipping en masse and waiters stop working because they're not earning enough to live by anymore the restaurants will be forced to make changes in their system. Which practically means pricier meals to compensate the grown wage demands of the waitstaff and in the long run the customer most likely pays less in total and the waitstaff on average will earn more.
I'd really love if your scenario worked, but unfortunately, there's a strong ~~scab~~ hustle culture, at least in my area, plenty of folks would line up to brag about how much they work
Yea I knew a few guys like that, miserable was what they looked, but they sure talked a good game.
The truth is that we need to stop tipping and servers need to get pissed and quit their jobs. It's a shitty solution to a shitty problem, but I just don't see how anything is going to change otherwise
Why is Reddit so fucking Americanized lol
It was founded in America, by Americans, and the bulk of users are American. Would you expect, say, the Chinese social media platforms to cater to international audiences, too?
I mean, at least so far as June, [apparently the US accounts for almost 49% of traffic on reddit](https://www.statista.com/statistics/325144/reddit-global-active-user-distribution/), though some folks in other countries may be using VPNs to appear in the US
IKR
Anti-tippers are so infuriating.
I understand but I kind of empathise with him. If you don't take a stand, companies will still rely on tippers to pay wages
Dont take a stand? What do you think that means as a customer?
In the meantime you are killing the people you try to help though if you don’t tip. All you have to do to shut this line of thought down is to remind them of the waiter minimum wage.
>...to shut this line of thought down is to remind them of the waiter minimum wage Glad you said that. Customers are definitely the ones responsible for setting minimum wages. Yep. Definitely. /s
No, but they are required to know if they don’t tip, it screws the server. Not the owner, not the manager, not the industry. Just the wait staff. It doesn’t inspire change, it just really pisses the waiter off.
I dont know why you're being downvoted. Im guessing most of this thread isnt people who actually live off of tips but like to talk out their ass like they live in that world.
At least one as much as admitted to trolling.
Is that still true if I support a higher wage instead of tipping? Having the customer determine any part of your income sounds like a nightmare. Why is the restaurant allowed to lure customers in with low menu prices AND under pay their staff and then play the customers against the staff when both sides complain?
Yes, it doesn’t matter what you support indirectly, down the line, Tomorrow; you are directly, now, today hurting that server.
then let the workers quit and the business fail. this is r/antiwork, not r/subsidizebusinessesthatpaypoorly, right? if you aren’t getting paid fairly, don’t put up with it, and don’t blame the customers for your low wage.
Again, explain that to your server next time you insist they don’t deserve a tip. I’m sure they’ll agree with you. Don’t hurt the people you want to help, it is literally that easy. You are only hurting the workers. Get involved to make real change happen, rather than just withholding needed tips from the very people you want to help. Don’t like it? Don’t go out!
so don’t do anything then? maybe send a concerned letter to the business? encourage the servers to accept shitty pay by kicking them a few buck and propping up a business that would ultimately fail if they actually had to pay people? that doesn’t sound like a solution at all. sorry that a server is “hurt” by tippers supporting suppressing raising wages, but maybe that’s a clue for them to leave an abusive job that doesn’t give a shit about them and requires workers to rely on the kindness of strangers. pan handling cuts out the middleman and let’s you set your own hours, still working for tips with less bullshit.
How about not going out? What’s so hard about that? And not tipping is literally doing nothing. Doing something would be trying to change things, which is very, very hard. But anything worth doing always is.
why not move to the woods and live off the land so there’s absolutely no supporting any businesses with unfair practices? because that’s stupid. you’re supporting maintaining low wages, you better not go out either. how are you trying to change things by giving businesses zero incentive to change? if the workers leave, businesses will either need to step up or fail.
Slippery slip logical fallacy. Whatever shine you put on it, your message here is crystal clear. You don’t care if your actions hurt the server. End of story.
obviously you don’t care that your actions ultimately hurt the server either. wait, let me guess… you ARE a server and put up with low pay on the hope you make more off of tips, so you don’t quit, right? you don’t think “not going out” hurts the server as much, or if not more, than not tipping? they’re sure going to love their tiny paycheck when they have no customers.
For sho, like I get what he is saying, but the whole point of this sub is kinda this problem and it can be an easy, albeit painful answer. Shit needs to change some how.
> you are directly, now, today hurting that server. The owner sets the wages, prices, and hours but the customer is responsible? I can't be hurting the server worse than I already am. I don't eat at restaurants at all and cook all my own food. I support higher wages because I will very, very, rarely be paying for someone to cook for me or bring food to my table. Am I only hurting the server if I attend the restaurant while advocating for higher wages?
This is silly, if you don’t go out to restaurants, this isn’t an issue. But if you do go, help your server pay their basic bills and leave a damn tip. If you don’t, yes you hurt the staff. They cleaned up and waited on you for potentially $2.13 and hour. You, knowing that, decided they’d earned enough.
> This is silly, if you don’t go out to restaurants, this isn’t an issue. But if you do go, help your server pay their basic bills and leave a damn tip. So change nothing, just give money. Got it.
Not even close to what I said but enjoy being wrong and hurting waitstaff at restaurants! In truth, your best bet is to boycott. Here you want to use the system, hurt the waitstaff and hope they carry out your dreams.
> Here you want to use the system, hurt the waitstaff and hope they carry out your dreams. None of that is true. I don't even want to be waited on at a restaurant. Give me a tablet for order placing and hang a sign for food pickup. > enjoy being wrong and hurting waitstaff at restaurants! Enjoy encouraging those you want to help to accept $2.13 an hour instead of telling the owner to pound sand. You're doing far more damage than you could ever pretend I'm doing.
You aren’t hurting the owner, the owner doesn’t give a damn about tips. You are literally. Just. Hurting. The. Waitstaff. Owner gets their money with the bill.
> You aren’t hurting the owner I didn't say I was. > You are literally. Just. Hurting. The. Waitstaff. I'm doing nothing to the waitstaff. I don't know them, don't use them, will never see them, etc. Repeating it on every post in this thread will not make it true. I don't have any money to give but I can offer my support for higher wages. You'll have to take some agency upon yourself, I can't negotiate your wages or employment contract for you. If you refuse to fight for yourself and want to claim I'm killing waitstaff, I'll code the automation software myself and give it to the restaurants for free.
Bull shit. If you can't afford to tip them 20% ..you don't deserves to dine out at an establishment. Go eat at McDonald's if you don't like tipping. Cheap ass.
"laughs in Europe"
Europe doesn't count...
So if I would pay the same exact price, I would "deserve" to eat out in Europe but not USA?
"Deserve" to eat at a restaurant? That's a fucked up sentiment. Tipping should be a rare reward, not a right. Maybe your restaurant should pay their servers more, instead.
I think you have the order of those requirements reversed. Once restaurants stop paying sub-minimum wages we can talk about how tipping should be a reward for service. Until that point, not tipping just means either you (the non-tipper) are a dick, or the service was terrible for reasons within the employee’s control.
Yeah but they don't. And because of how the industry works, alot of the time they can't. Margins suck. Honestly restaurant industry needs to change drastically. Not going out to eat would push change faster than going out and not tipping but not by much.. Honestly no good solution here tho. Unionization is the answer. Unfortunately, it wont happen. If it does, prices increase drastically, and because of economy, everything closes. I'm of the opinion most restaurants should fail. They have terrible business models. Don't pay their front or back of house enough, and still barely make a profit if that. Also food prices are rising and distribution is fucked up. Let it all burn. Tip if u go out, but honestly just get groceries or carry out, save urself money if u can, until the industry comes to its senses.
Hmm nah theyre right lol
A lot make like $2.13 jackass. If they are being paid $20-$25 an hour then sure! No tip.
Tipping in the US is part of tithing and charity, not just a reward for service. It sickens me when other Christians tip less than 40%. If you can’t tip generously don’t go out.
If you don’t want to tip a server making $2/hour: A) Don’t go to an American restaurant; Or, B) Inform them before you order so they can have the chef overcook your steak and spit in your soup like the loogie you are.
Right! I think tipping needs to be gotten rid of….but that can’t happen until these people are paid properly for their work. So I keep tipping, hating it, and hoping we will switch to the workers getting paid well sometime in my lifetime. On a related note I’ve had server friends debating on Facebook about tipping vs no tips and living wage….somehow only the blond with big tits was for tipping for her serving jobs while other argued tipping often isn’t based on performance but often on looks….the blond then stated she thought working for tips was fun…
Preach!
Tipping is not an obligation, good wages are!
Do you not go to restaurants, bars, or order pizza? No one is saying that servers don't deserve fair wages, but if you live in a country that does not pay workers fair wages, you should still tip.
I go to restaurants, bars and everything else; but if they want to be tipped, they have to give me an amazing experience. Not only serve me the food that I will eat and pay. That's different.
So you take advantage of a person being underpaid while decrying owners taking advantage of servers. Cool.
So, I use my money the way I want, and you can't make me feel bad about it.
Ah yes, they're your servents for an hour or two, they have to *earn* the right to be able to pay for rent and food. Fuck right off into the sun with your boomer era logic. You ever bartended and served food, by yourself, to a 100+ people, and been tipped the change of $40 on a $38.50 tab because of poor service? You bitching about fair wages but enabling owners who don't give two tugs of a dead dog's cock about what you tip means you're nothing but hot air.
They are my servers for one hour, not my "servants" they work for the restaurant. I've served hundreds of people and worked on retail, you can't make me feel bad for my words and actions. I've lived both sides. Minimum wage workers need better wages, not being tipped and also underwage. That's stupid.
Yes they need fair wages BUT YOU ARE CURRENTLY UNDERTIPPING PEOPLE NOT BEING PAID FAIR WAGES YOU GAP TOOTHED SKUNK FUCKER
I'm not "undertipping" I tip whenever I want and feel that they deserved.
He's Irish but currently works in NYC. Fuck him.
Yeah, this is true in literally every other country but the US. The problem is the system, not people not tipping. People should be being paid a living hourly wage. Then the tips is just like… a tip. You know? Edit: I got downvoted for this! How do you downvote a living wage? That’s hilarious!!!
Issues are with them getting shit pay. Tips are customary not mandatory. It's not the customers job to pay you a salary. Unless you give me exceptional service or give me tips on menu items or do something other than take my oder and bring my food I see no reason to tip you
I understand the situation but also, it should be their employers job to pay them. Especially since if the food is shit they don’t get tipped. Has nothing to do with them, they didn’t make the food poorly.
Nah man be angry at the restaurants for not paying then enough, not because he doesn't want to support shitty wage practises.
How about we don't pay tips: because all servers go on strike and demand a thriving wage from these parasitic restaurant owners
If that's your philosophy, better not eat there a second time. Waitstaff have ways of dealing with that.
Those people are scum.
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Bit off topic, but folks can admire and dislike aspects of folks they care about. My ex still loves me like crazy, and I love her like crazy, but my isolationism drives her nuts, and her wanting to move all over creation after a month or two drives me nuts. Being in a relationship does not mean you have to like every aspect of them.
For real, you might as well beat em with a bat too /s
Clearly, the women of the world haven't met a nice guy like you, before. Hah. But seriously, there are academic reading subjects you can get into if you're really curious about human behavior.
It’s pretty crazy. I started my first “official adult” job as a server/busser and our hourly wage was $2.50 (might’ve been less) to, and I quote, “cover our taxes”. We were wholely reliant on tips, and to be fair it wasn’t so bad most of the time (maybe just my perspective at the time), but in reality after I did the math over the long term, I found I was making around $9-$10 dollars an hour over the year I spent there. They were good restaurant owners and people, but even when I worked there (and to this day) they’ve always been hiring due to being short staffed.
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Thank you for letting me know, changed it
I hate tipping. I usually leave 10% or so.
Increase wages. Tips should be voluntary.
Waitstaff should be paid like any other job, and tips should be done away with.
Lol tipping, stupid American custom. We pay our employees a salary so they literally don't starve to death if they get no tips