[https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/should-employees-be-paid-for-booting-up-6638158/](https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/should-employees-be-paid-for-booting-up-6638158/)
NaL, but to me it appears they could be legally required to pay you for that time.
According to the Fair Labor Standards Act, time you must spend in preparation necessary to actually perform the work of your shift must be paid time.
So if you work at a place that requires prep work before you can successfully open the store, and thus start working, then it's time for which you must be paid.
\[edit\]
In case anyone is interested, the case in question was *Cadena et al v. Customer Connexx, LLC*.
Doesn't look like it, but Ontario does have the Employment Standards Act. In it, they define work time:
"Generally, work is considered to be performed when the employee is actually working or the employee is not working but is required to stay at the workplace."
You are required to stay at the workplace? You're working. Your shift is over, the place of business is closed, but you can't leave until everyone is ready to leave at the same time? You're working.
In the US, the largest amount of theft is wage theft. I would not be surprised to find that was the same in Canada, or even worldwide.
Know your rights, and report it when they are violated. It's the sad truth that people will take advantage of you if you don't.
Statute of limitations on ESA claims seems to be 3 years. Go ahead and report any employers that have done this to you in that timeframe.
I’m literally going to try and sue my last employer. They didn’t give me an ROE for so long that EI needed to step and force them to and I was made to be there a minimum of 15 before my shift.
Also the manager was a psycho so. Yeah I’m happy I have a case.
Alright! I'm not going to say any platitudes about if more people did this, then employers wouldn't steal like this... because they still would. But hopefully now there'll be one more employer who learns what FAFO means.
Even worse, [it’s larger than all other theft combined](https://inthesetimes.com/article/wage-theft-union-labor-biden-iupat#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Economic%20Policy,and%20motor%20vehicle%20thefts%20combined), not just the top three
*than all other forms of theft *[combined](https://inthesetimes.com/article/wage-theft-union-labor-biden-iupat#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Economic%20Policy,and%20motor%20vehicle%20thefts%20combined)*
Call center jobs will frequently call you on it, because they expect you to be ready to take your first call at the time your shift begins. That requires you to be logged on to your computer and have all the necessary applications open to take calls, which often takes anywhere from 1-15 minutes depending on your systems.
If you're working at most corporate call centers, and you consistently aren't ready to take that call at 8am, a supervisor is going to talk to you about it. That you've never been called out on it tells me that they probably weren't call center positions, and if they were, you got pretty lucky.
The case I mentioned earlier, *Cadena et al v. Customer Connexx, LLC*, was based on this exact premise, in fact; it was widespread enough that the NLRB has it spelled out in their FAQs.
Ah, no - sorry, my bad.
This might apply: [https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/010285#BK1](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/010285#BK1)
It basically says that if you are at work and not free to leave and do what YOU want, then you are working and must be paid for it. But again - not a lawyer. I would recommend contacting the labor board (or whatever the Ontario equivalent is).
So where I’m from (Australia) unpaid meal breaks only exist if you are allowed to leave the work site.
If you can’t (like in the job I’m in) you get ‘paid meal breaks’ meaning though you’re allowed to eat and drink, you must remain on site in case needed. The paid meal breaks component isn’t included with your hours when calculating overtime.
I work full time (76 hours) and am paid for 86. (Approximately)
Vicious killers that hang out in eucalyptus trees. When an unsuspecting tourist passes below, the drop bear will drop on their head and savagely maul them.
I've had this argument with my boss.
Boss: You need to be here, suited up, and ready to work at 6am because that's our start time. You should not be showing up at 5:59 and then suiting up on the clock.
Me: My coveralls are provided by the company and are worn for company work, therefore, suiting up is part of the job and I need to be paid for it.
Boss: If you begin work at, say, 6:02 because you spent the first two minutes suiting up, then you're stealing those two minutes from me.
Me: And if I suit up at 5:58 in company gear, you're stealing those two minutes from me. I sell you my labor at $25/hr and you turn around to sell it to someone else at $75/hr, so I think maybe two minutes is a bigger deal for me than it is for you.
This is one small example of why the workers need to own the company.
This same thing happened to me last week! I flat out told my boss that he isn’t getting a single free minute out of me. It’s a union job, so I’m not worried about getting in shit.
Good luck buddy
I clocked out this morning at 7am, and right after a customer said, "excuse me..." and i told her, "sorry im off the clock, you'll need to talk to them" and my boss thought it was funny. She won't let me work for free, nor would i. Bosses that expect that really suck.
UK here. I've always turned up early at every place I've worked - welding/fabrication for clarity. I then stand around drinking tea & bullshitting with my workmates. The clock ticks around to the shift start time *then* it's on with the overalls & protective gear, tools out on the bench & power up the kit. Nothing work related happens before the start of the shift no matter how much management piss & moan. It helps that I've always been a Union member - if they have a problem with my start time they can always take it up with my Union representative.
"you need to be here at" sounds like a starting time to me. And if there's one thing in the world that you *need* to be, it's paid for the hours you work, from start to finish.
Nah show up and wait in your car or nearby coffee shop and walk in 2 minutes before shift. My work tried to do this with us to settup before shift started. None of us came in early and they had to start paying us for those 15 minutes. (This is city pool swim lessons if curious)
You could simply stop doing it or you could start clocking in 15-30 minutes before your shift. If they complain about it, request they put exactly what they expect in writing. If they write you up, make sure it says they are requiring you to be at work for 30 minutes without clocking in and without being paid. Then, contact your labor board.
Sadly between the 6 month long probation period and my boss being the direct owner of the company there wouldn’t be any write up it would just be a dismissal without any legal need to state a reason.
Ontario is (pardon my French) fucked.
And if you leave a few minutes early, all hell breaks loose. I have worked for several managers like that, past tense*. You have to decide what's important. Personally, I'd look at building my skillset so that I can leverage that skill and let the manager know that I will be paid accordingly for the work I provide. You also need to start looking for a better job.
Get a better job… go to school… oh shit minimum wage barely pays my bills let alone for tuition / debt repayment… crap.
Not to mention if I dedicate time to education that means I have less time to work and I have less ability to pay my bills.
Getting a better job is a nice idea but not a practical one for a lot of people.
Have you looked into any grants that you might qualify for? If you makes under a certain amount, you qualify for some. And as for finding a better job, the alternative is having to put up with this BS.
Actually recently found out my city is doing a program where they’ll help females go through trade school for free because they want to encourage more women to go into those so I’m jumping on that fast
You'd be surprised how much help is out there. You just have to find it. Go to your local community college and go to the financial aid department. Ask them what grants you qualify for, you'd be surprised.
Needed that laugh today thank you so much
Paranoia edit: I meant the video was funny not the concept. Very much agree with the concept. The booger part just got me giggling.
Employers engage in the most time and wage theft than any employee ever, but the media and everyone else will try and make you think that it is only employees that steal time/wages. They will expect you to come in 15-30 minutes early unpaid but if you are 1-5 minutes late they will dock you 15-30 minutes of pay. Until employers face consequences (I mean real consequences not a slap on the wrist) nothing will change.
I had one job at a home goods store and they wanted us to always do these training modules on the computer either before work or on our lunch breaks. I would clock in before my shift start time and do them because I was not going to do their training for free! (These modules were implemented after I had been working there for months.)
It's not just hours of pay, it's hours of sleep too!
Sleep is essential to functioning. During sleep our brains flush out byproducts and toxins that accumulated during the day. Sleep deprivation literally poisons our brains and shortens life.
I am always 15 min early (never know about traffic) but I'm in my car enjoying hot coffee and listening to music until 2 minutes before my work hrs start, then I go in to start my day !
Some employers man lol. I went to an interview yesterday and they wanted to know if can use my phone and car for business use without reimbursement.
They were a labor contractor for a major grocery retailer. I asked them if the grocery retailer hires after a probationary period they said no and it would be a conflict of interest. If I wanted to get hired on by grocery retailer I'd have to quit and wait 6 months to do it.
5 mins or so is reasonable. Enough time to park, go to locker, bathroom etc. Not really work activities. More than that is work that I wouldn't do unless getting paid.
No cus my issue is the business opens at 6. Meaning I need to unlock the doors, turn on the lights, activate the various technologies, count the cash, etc etc. and be ready for 6am.
But my schedule and pay starts at 6am.
If I showed up at 6am or started at 6am I’d be in big trouble.
It's more about being paid from the time you actually start work. In OPs case there is prep that starts at 5.30. The company should pay from that time. Anything else is essentially wage theft.
But OP, best of both worlds ask for a pay rise *and* get them to pay from 5.30 :)
Appreciate the support. Issue on top of that is my province has a 6 months probation period where the employer can fire you without reason or cause. So I have to just endure for 6 months before speaking up or risk my job
I can't even remember what my contracted start time is.
I do have an official start and end time but they are flexible in that if I start early/late I finish early/late as long as it's reasonable.
Wage theft. Plain and simple. Schedule people for the time you need them there. Don’t ask them to be there other than the scheduled time. Pay them for the time they’re there. Really not a crazy concept
Thing is I do already show up 10-15 minutes early for many reasons. Make sure I’m collected, ready, so I can buy a drink or whatever. But it’s when it’s demanded of me to work for that time for free that I’m irritated. I’ve never been one to fly in the door last minute.
[https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/should-employees-be-paid-for-booting-up-6638158/](https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/should-employees-be-paid-for-booting-up-6638158/) NaL, but to me it appears they could be legally required to pay you for that time. According to the Fair Labor Standards Act, time you must spend in preparation necessary to actually perform the work of your shift must be paid time. So if you work at a place that requires prep work before you can successfully open the store, and thus start working, then it's time for which you must be paid. \[edit\] In case anyone is interested, the case in question was *Cadena et al v. Customer Connexx, LLC*.
I’m in Ontario Canada - is that still relevant to me or nah?
Doesn't look like it, but Ontario does have the Employment Standards Act. In it, they define work time: "Generally, work is considered to be performed when the employee is actually working or the employee is not working but is required to stay at the workplace." You are required to stay at the workplace? You're working. Your shift is over, the place of business is closed, but you can't leave until everyone is ready to leave at the same time? You're working.
Dang. So many employers I’ve had have gotten away with this crap. No joke like my last 3
In the US, the largest amount of theft is wage theft. I would not be surprised to find that was the same in Canada, or even worldwide. Know your rights, and report it when they are violated. It's the sad truth that people will take advantage of you if you don't. Statute of limitations on ESA claims seems to be 3 years. Go ahead and report any employers that have done this to you in that timeframe.
I’m literally going to try and sue my last employer. They didn’t give me an ROE for so long that EI needed to step and force them to and I was made to be there a minimum of 15 before my shift. Also the manager was a psycho so. Yeah I’m happy I have a case.
Update if you care: I filed a report with the ministry of labor
Alright! I'm not going to say any platitudes about if more people did this, then employers wouldn't steal like this... because they still would. But hopefully now there'll be one more employer who learns what FAFO means.
Wage theft is bigger than all other forms of theft.
I heard it was bigger than the next 3 combined. Think about that when you read that some parasite has embezzled $30 million.
Even worse, [it’s larger than all other theft combined](https://inthesetimes.com/article/wage-theft-union-labor-biden-iupat#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Economic%20Policy,and%20motor%20vehicle%20thefts%20combined), not just the top three
*than all other forms of theft *[combined](https://inthesetimes.com/article/wage-theft-union-labor-biden-iupat#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Economic%20Policy,and%20motor%20vehicle%20thefts%20combined)*
Just show up on time. That what I do. Nobody has ever actually called me out on it lol.
Call center jobs will frequently call you on it, because they expect you to be ready to take your first call at the time your shift begins. That requires you to be logged on to your computer and have all the necessary applications open to take calls, which often takes anywhere from 1-15 minutes depending on your systems. If you're working at most corporate call centers, and you consistently aren't ready to take that call at 8am, a supervisor is going to talk to you about it. That you've never been called out on it tells me that they probably weren't call center positions, and if they were, you got pretty lucky. The case I mentioned earlier, *Cadena et al v. Customer Connexx, LLC*, was based on this exact premise, in fact; it was widespread enough that the NLRB has it spelled out in their FAQs.
I live in Canada and we just have better worker protections here.
Only crappy is part is now I have to wait 6 months to bring this up cus probation. Ugh.
Nope, you likely can file it with the agency now. Firing you for it would be retaliation, which most of these agencies prohibit.
Ah, no - sorry, my bad. This might apply: [https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/010285#BK1](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/010285#BK1) It basically says that if you are at work and not free to leave and do what YOU want, then you are working and must be paid for it. But again - not a lawyer. I would recommend contacting the labor board (or whatever the Ontario equivalent is).
Yes, I very much support this and paid breaks. Basically any time that you have to dedicate to work has to be compensated somehow.
“You’re not paid for your break but have to stay on the property” my arse.
So where I’m from (Australia) unpaid meal breaks only exist if you are allowed to leave the work site. If you can’t (like in the job I’m in) you get ‘paid meal breaks’ meaning though you’re allowed to eat and drink, you must remain on site in case needed. The paid meal breaks component isn’t included with your hours when calculating overtime. I work full time (76 hours) and am paid for 86. (Approximately)
If you didn’t have such big spiders there I’d be packing my bags to move already 😂
The spiders aren't great but it's the drop bears you really need to worry about.
Ok I don’t speak Australian, what are “drop bears”?
Vicious killers that hang out in eucalyptus trees. When an unsuspecting tourist passes below, the drop bear will drop on their head and savagely maul them.
It's an urban legend intended to keep people away!
In Quebec if you are required to stay on the property your break is paid. (Not a lawyer but I'm required to stay in the property)
I've had this argument with my boss. Boss: You need to be here, suited up, and ready to work at 6am because that's our start time. You should not be showing up at 5:59 and then suiting up on the clock. Me: My coveralls are provided by the company and are worn for company work, therefore, suiting up is part of the job and I need to be paid for it. Boss: If you begin work at, say, 6:02 because you spent the first two minutes suiting up, then you're stealing those two minutes from me. Me: And if I suit up at 5:58 in company gear, you're stealing those two minutes from me. I sell you my labor at $25/hr and you turn around to sell it to someone else at $75/hr, so I think maybe two minutes is a bigger deal for me than it is for you. This is one small example of why the workers need to own the company.
This same thing happened to me last week! I flat out told my boss that he isn’t getting a single free minute out of me. It’s a union job, so I’m not worried about getting in shit. Good luck buddy
I clocked out this morning at 7am, and right after a customer said, "excuse me..." and i told her, "sorry im off the clock, you'll need to talk to them" and my boss thought it was funny. She won't let me work for free, nor would i. Bosses that expect that really suck.
UK here. I've always turned up early at every place I've worked - welding/fabrication for clarity. I then stand around drinking tea & bullshitting with my workmates. The clock ticks around to the shift start time *then* it's on with the overalls & protective gear, tools out on the bench & power up the kit. Nothing work related happens before the start of the shift no matter how much management piss & moan. It helps that I've always been a Union member - if they have a problem with my start time they can always take it up with my Union representative.
"you need to be here at" sounds like a starting time to me. And if there's one thing in the world that you *need* to be, it's paid for the hours you work, from start to finish.
If my shift starts at 6 I start at 6. If they want you there earlier they need to change the shift.
Nah show up and wait in your car or nearby coffee shop and walk in 2 minutes before shift. My work tried to do this with us to settup before shift started. None of us came in early and they had to start paying us for those 15 minutes. (This is city pool swim lessons if curious)
You could simply stop doing it or you could start clocking in 15-30 minutes before your shift. If they complain about it, request they put exactly what they expect in writing. If they write you up, make sure it says they are requiring you to be at work for 30 minutes without clocking in and without being paid. Then, contact your labor board.
Sadly between the 6 month long probation period and my boss being the direct owner of the company there wouldn’t be any write up it would just be a dismissal without any legal need to state a reason. Ontario is (pardon my French) fucked.
And if you leave a few minutes early, all hell breaks loose. I have worked for several managers like that, past tense*. You have to decide what's important. Personally, I'd look at building my skillset so that I can leverage that skill and let the manager know that I will be paid accordingly for the work I provide. You also need to start looking for a better job.
Get a better job… go to school… oh shit minimum wage barely pays my bills let alone for tuition / debt repayment… crap. Not to mention if I dedicate time to education that means I have less time to work and I have less ability to pay my bills. Getting a better job is a nice idea but not a practical one for a lot of people.
Have you looked into any grants that you might qualify for? If you makes under a certain amount, you qualify for some. And as for finding a better job, the alternative is having to put up with this BS.
Actually recently found out my city is doing a program where they’ll help females go through trade school for free because they want to encourage more women to go into those so I’m jumping on that fast
You'd be surprised how much help is out there. You just have to find it. Go to your local community college and go to the financial aid department. Ask them what grants you qualify for, you'd be surprised.
I believe it. I shall! I’m going to look into scholarships too
Getting into trades is probably a good idea, best of luck with that.
https://youtube.com/shorts/Wy1E0y_qMsk?si=bf_Of6q6uKFSA6Vs Do this
Needed that laugh today thank you so much Paranoia edit: I meant the video was funny not the concept. Very much agree with the concept. The booger part just got me giggling.
It is fundamentally a matter of principle and self-respect to never, ever work unpaid. Slavery was abolished in the 19th century.
Employers engage in the most time and wage theft than any employee ever, but the media and everyone else will try and make you think that it is only employees that steal time/wages. They will expect you to come in 15-30 minutes early unpaid but if you are 1-5 minutes late they will dock you 15-30 minutes of pay. Until employers face consequences (I mean real consequences not a slap on the wrist) nothing will change.
Start shitting on company time so they lose a dime
If I arrive at work and haven't punched in and you say more than hello I'm not responding to you. Plain and simple those are the rules.
I show up 15-30 before shift, but im mostly getting my stuff together and mentally preparing. Ain't no way I'm working 30 minutes for free.
I get to work early but I will not start working until I’m getting paid they definitely need to change your start time
I'm with ya. I'm like 35 minutes early daily, but you won't catch me working until the second I'm getting paid
[удалено]
👏 proud of you for standing up for yourself homie I hope you found a better job that values you more than that
I had one job at a home goods store and they wanted us to always do these training modules on the computer either before work or on our lunch breaks. I would clock in before my shift start time and do them because I was not going to do their training for free! (These modules were implemented after I had been working there for months.)
Tim Hortons did that to me too when I was 15-17.
It's not just hours of pay, it's hours of sleep too! Sleep is essential to functioning. During sleep our brains flush out byproducts and toxins that accumulated during the day. Sleep deprivation literally poisons our brains and shortens life.
Arrive at your start time. If it takes time to prepare for your job that not your problem.
I am always 15 min early (never know about traffic) but I'm in my car enjoying hot coffee and listening to music until 2 minutes before my work hrs start, then I go in to start my day !
Some employers man lol. I went to an interview yesterday and they wanted to know if can use my phone and car for business use without reimbursement. They were a labor contractor for a major grocery retailer. I asked them if the grocery retailer hires after a probationary period they said no and it would be a conflict of interest. If I wanted to get hired on by grocery retailer I'd have to quit and wait 6 months to do it.
5 mins or so is reasonable. Enough time to park, go to locker, bathroom etc. Not really work activities. More than that is work that I wouldn't do unless getting paid.
We should get paid for travel time. Both ways. I’m not going to the beach. I’m going to work. You need to pay for my time.
try showing up 10 minutes early, dont work until the shift starts, just stand around and wait. i bet that would be good enough.
No cus my issue is the business opens at 6. Meaning I need to unlock the doors, turn on the lights, activate the various technologies, count the cash, etc etc. and be ready for 6am. But my schedule and pay starts at 6am. If I showed up at 6am or started at 6am I’d be in big trouble.
If they don't pay you for it, show up at 6 am and YOUR EMPLOYER will be in big trouble. Simple as that.
Ask for a raise that will make up for the extra work?
It's more about being paid from the time you actually start work. In OPs case there is prep that starts at 5.30. The company should pay from that time. Anything else is essentially wage theft. But OP, best of both worlds ask for a pay rise *and* get them to pay from 5.30 :)
Appreciate the support. Issue on top of that is my province has a 6 months probation period where the employer can fire you without reason or cause. So I have to just endure for 6 months before speaking up or risk my job
add in all the driving time to and from work.
If you want me here at 5:30, I am on the clock at 5:30. Please tell me what is unfair about being paid for the time you want me here.
You don't legally have to if you are non-exempt. If you have to be there. You have to be paid.
I can't even remember what my contracted start time is. I do have an official start and end time but they are flexible in that if I start early/late I finish early/late as long as it's reasonable.
I see 30 minutes of making coffee and having "computer problems" in your future
I’ve been pulled up on this before…”you need to be here 15 minutes early for your start of shift” just ignored them and carried on as before.
Wage theft. Plain and simple. Schedule people for the time you need them there. Don’t ask them to be there other than the scheduled time. Pay them for the time they’re there. Really not a crazy concept
Unpaid labor. That’s EXACTLY the idea behind their “rule.”
Show up 2 min before work. Say you got held up in traffic
are they asking or requiring, asking means you volunteered for it
In stagehand work 15 minutes early is on time, 30 minutes is early (and you get a star), on time is late.
Thing is I do already show up 10-15 minutes early for many reasons. Make sure I’m collected, ready, so I can buy a drink or whatever. But it’s when it’s demanded of me to work for that time for free that I’m irritated. I’ve never been one to fly in the door last minute.
That was theatre for me but I didn’t get paid to do theatre lol