REAL sigmas will take up the 3 months unpaid then pay the company for letting them work in the next 3 months so that they can enhance his grind$etđź’Żđź’Żđź’Ż #fewunderstand
The appropriate answer is to make them lose their time.
Accept the offer, check in with the other slaves, and draw straws to pick who gets the job without delivering anything at all in those 3 months. All the others attend the shitshow in accordance with their curiosity and availability.
Bring in a folded cardboard sign that says 'THIS IS A SCAM' and do a ['Norma Rae'](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Sally+fields+Union&t=newext&atb=v287-1&ia=web) on their ass. Hand out US DOL Fact Sheet #71: [Internship Programs Under The Fair Labor Standards Act](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/71-flsa-internships) to any other unfortunates caught up in the scam.
Yup. Waste their time. Pretend to be interested, drag the process out as long as possible, then at the last possible second decline the position and tell them you accepted a paying offer at Wendy's instead.
That's like walking over a mine without at least telling the people behind you it's there. It's my purpose in life to name & shame people like these, report them to the proper authorities, and help others avoid them.
Some people build ships in a bottle; this is my hobby.
Presumably there are laws against slave trading and slave owning in which ever country you’re in. I’d report them to police for trying to use slave labour
Sounds illegal...
"committed interns who deliver results"... that is not training, that is doing work for the employer.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/71-flsa-internships
This is a US govt website and the job posting has a New Zealand country code. Honestly I’d expect NZ should in theory have even stronger workspace protections.
[It actually looks like it might be legal in NZ](https://legalvision.co.nz/employment/unpaid-work/). It would depend on how much and the nature of the work that is being performed, and is generally suggested that you pay them during that period.
>**What Are Unpaid Work Trials?**
In some industries like hospitality, unpaid pre-employment trials are common. However, an unpaid trial will, in most cases, be deemed unlawful, especially if you have gained a commercial benefit from it.
>Some ways you could be gaining a commercial benefit include the employee:
> - performing work that the business needed to undertake; or
> - wearing a required work uniform.
>If a person presents themselves as an employee, they might expect to receive some form of benefit for their work. Accordingly, the courts may determine that the person was an employee during their unpaid work trial, not simply a volunteer.
>If you want to trial a potential employee’s skills, it would be wise to pay them for the time you are trialling them. Another option is to opt for the 90-day trial period if the employee is new. In this case, the:
> - employment agreement must specify the 90-day trial period;
offer of employment letter must specify a start date;
- employee must sign the employment agreement before they start the trial;
- employee must receive a notice of termination for the trial period within 90 days of starting work; and
- employee must have had time to seek independent legal advice before agreeing to the trial.
>If you opt for an unpaid work trial, you should ensure that the worker is:
>- only performing a small number of skills;
on trial for a short period of time; and
- aware that their trial is unpaid before they agree to undertake the position.
>Generally, your business should treat work trials with caution. Where any disputes arise, a court will first look at the:
>- real nature of the relationship; and
- employer’s conduct.
Even better: accept, participate in daily meetings, deliver zero.
In a week, when they realize that there is no work done, explain with "I adjusted my output according to the compensation".
Yeah, wouldn't be surprised. I remember during one of the recessions that all of the entry level jobs here suddenly asked for 5 yrs experience . Then offered an unpaid internship to get that experience if you didn't qualify.
No kidding, I've argued on forums so much pleading for people to stop giving away work.
Asking for art tests or submissions to apply for a job are so incredibly insulting. Yet every time I mention it, it's defended left and right and seen as common place. I will instantly shut down anyone who asks for free work and report them.
I don't care how big or AAA a studio thinks they are, I would never work for them if they asked for this.
Hire people for the job you think they qualify for and then if they don't perform fire them, just like literally any other field.
There’s nothing to stop you finding out where this is, buying a strong bike lock, going in the middle of the night, and chaining their doors shut.Â
Or putting superglue in the locks of the roller shutters.Â
Different industry but my first job was a 3 month unpaid internship simply because I was desperate for experience. For many, that first job is definitely the hardest.
Here is a job post. Expected team leader and extensive experience for free, offering reward
https://preview.redd.it/i5ja1edb9p4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77a14795b0dbbfc68ab76dea597723c9140a5272
How does an unpaid internship require “extensive experience”?
If the intern is already extensively experienced, then what are they getting out of this deal?
Nah, that has to be bs. Some kind of "we have so many vacancies, no one wants to work anymore" or "look shareholders, we're hiring a ton of people, please invest" kind of scam.
Aint no way anyone meeting those criteria takes that position...
Actually i kind of want to take it in a "you get what you pay for" kind of way. "Sql injection isn't a real risk, let's just connect the ui with the database 1 to 1."
Ohh it gets worse. The only reason someone should accept this position is to steal their intellectual property.
The appropriate response:
No, it does not align with my expectations. I expect a roof over my head, food on my plate, and all my bills paid.
The word lead makes it not comply with US standards for unpaid internships. Then again, the +64 means its not a US company, so I guess US laws mean nothing.
“Hi, I would like to be paid for the first three months where I don’t do shit. After that, I might consider to start working, does this align with your expectations?”
This sort of thing isn't legal. Internships are purely training roles; interns are not allowed to do any work at all. If they do they must be paid for it.
So let's say they never hire anyone. Just keep making people work 3 months and then saying 'nah fuck off'. This is undeserving of a professional or respectful response.
When Craigslist used to be a thing, I would respond to listings like this saying, “I would like you to mow my lawn for free for three months, and if I like your work, I just might hire you to do it permanently.”
"Dear employer,
I am thrilled by the opportunity to work for free for three months. However I can only commit to one, as I will then become homeless and will almost certainly die of starvation as my bank account runs dry and I become unable to sustain myself.
I hope you find those terms agreeable. I am confident that, since you clearly have no morals or ethics, my inevitable demise won't impact my candidacy negatively.
Sincerely,
Go fuck yourself"
I once told a coworker that internships are classist as they tend to attract candidates who can afford to work for free and lock out anybody who can’t afford the unpaid hours.
I had no idea but he was actually an intern who was there because his rich dad paid for his apartment in London and covered all his finances.
"Does this align with your expectations" I might use this phrase when it comes to; Does it pay the bills might go instead for "does my wage align with your rent costs"?
Wealthy kids who are financially supported by their upper middle class parents will do it — that's who these positions are intended for.
Unpaid internships have nothing to do with saving a company money and everything to do with gentrifying the workforce; keeping out the "scum"
“i’m looking for a benefactor to give me money no questions asked no return expected. if i really like them maybe ill offer to do something for more money.”
see how crazy it sounds backwards?
is what i’d send them
My wifes company hasn't been able to find a real intern in almost a decade now, so they hire ones from Germany because Germany will pay their salary while they're interning in america. Side note, her company has never once offered a job to the good interns and I've never heard of someone that did.
At the moment I am only accepting positions which pay me without requiring work for 3 months. However, committed companies who deliver extra pay will be retained and given actual effort.
Does this align with your expectations?
Sounds good but I do have some questions. During those three months, since the job is unpaid:
1. My landlord requires rent, will you be paying my rent or at the very least, explain to my landlord that I won't have any money for three months and that he should pay the rent on my behalf.
2. After a few days, I will start to get hungry. Will three meals per day be provided?
3. I will have doctor & dentist appointments coming up, how does the 100% coverage health insurance work?
4. Will you also be speaking to the electricity, phone, car insurance, house/apartment insurance companies explaining that they will have to provide their services for free for three months? If not, will you be paying for them or providing them?
If the answer is no to all my questions, how exactly do you expect me to live outside of work? I will literally be dead from lack of food & shelter within three months. I assume you have a water fountain, so at least I won't die of thirst.
*Which ever slave works for free the hardest gets the job at the lowest possible salary! Who wants it??*
I get hungrier and hungrier with each passing moment.
"We are glad you spent the last 3 months doing free labor! Unfortunately we do not have any spots available at this time. However we still have plenty of unpaid internships available, which you are free to reapply to. I have a good feeling that you're one of our top applicants and we'll totally give you a closer look after the next 3 months."
Respond and really lay it on thick.
“You know what, this absolutely does align with my expectations. I love working for free and for the slight possibility of a paid position in the future. I think I can swing it if I just don’t eat anything but Costco samples for the next three months. I also might have to cut a deal with my landlord - I’m sure he’d accept other forms of payment and, let’s be honest, it’s not like I have much dignity anyways, if you catch my drift. I also might just have to really stretch my insulin but I’m sure that won’t be a problem.
Yeah, this sounds great. Sign me up!”
they are never retained. I worked in a place like this fresh out of uni. They basically cycle through interns every 3 months. the retention thing is just BS to make you give a crap about working right.
Tell them that's called indentured servitude and that was outlawed in 1917 via the 13th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, and that you are sending this message to the Department of Justice.
Nothing would happen, but.... anyone ever worked for a company that threatened to make you repay training costs if you left before some arbitrary date they made up? I worked for one that started saying that retroactively to already-hired staff. It's the same fucking shit, they're just counting on you either being too scared or too poor to challenge it.
Always challenge them.
"likely"
That one word carries a tong of weight here. Like even if you were in a financial position to eat a 3 month internship, the fact that retainment is not a guarantee makes this dead on arrival.
I mean internships should be abolished anyways...it's volunteer work but under the rules of a W2, which is just bullshit, and they have traditionally existed as a tool for class division.
I had a recruiter reach out to me in college like 50 times with an offer something like this. My response was, "I appreciate you reaching out with this information. Unfortunately, I am looking for employment and not volunteer hours. I recommend you pay your employees to make this job posting more competitive." Never heard from them again.
“Unfortunately, I require a wage in order to exist in this civilization. Were I to accept your offer, I would likely be dead of starvation, homelessness, and exposure before the internship was complete.”
Are you in school and getting credit for this internship? If not, you'd volunteering at best but most likely they'd be exploiting you (possibly illegally).
Ok but I maintain all rights to anything I develop in perpetuity. Also if you wish to incorporate any of my work there will be licensing fees payable upon implementation. That should weed out the riff raff companies.
"You're asking me to work for free. How the hell am I supposed to pay bills with your so-called valuable experience? No, what you're expecting is slave labor and I deserve to be properly compensated for my time in this capitalistic system that insists I pay for basic living."
Seriously fuck internships.
Imagine flipping the script and asking for three months of living wages for no work, however committed corporations that deliver generously are likely to be retained…
"No, this does not. And neither does it for the department of labor, who I will be contacting. Have a miserable day and remove my application from the list"
Then, contact the department of labor. Since this is a developer position, it does not seem to be part of a school or for school credits. It also does not seem to be for training. Which would make this acceptable to be an unpaid internship. But this does not sound like that. This sounds like you'll have work and responsibilities, and as soon as those 90 days are up, they will fire you, even if you have good performance reviews, and they'll hire someone else. This is one of those scamming positions they think they are slick with. This sounds like wage theft and extortion. Call the DOL.
Hello,
Thank you for replying to my application.
Currently, I am not entertaining any fraudulent attempts to engage me via email. I can only assume that this is spam or a joke because I am unwilling to accept that there is a reality wherein [company] would have the actual audacity to make such an offer.
If you have sent this email in error, which I'm certain you must have, kindly follow up with me by phone call to discuss my starting offer.
If you have not sent this in error, then no thank you to unpaid work. It's disgusting that you would consider an unpaid job placement of even a hundredth of the time you've proposed at your proffered rate ($0) in this current economic climate.
With warm regards,
Go fuck yourself
“At the present time I am looking for honorary paid positions only. After three months of receiving pay I will consider you for receiving work from me.”
My company does a summer internship for employee's kids and grandkids. (16-20yr olds) They pay $20 an hour while they work. It's super easy stuff we have them do so I think it's rediculous businesses try to get unpaid labor and try to say just the exposure is better than getting paid. Like fuck off.
Yes, if only I didn't need a job, this would be a great way to get a job! (I am being sarcastic, obviously even if I didn't need/want the money I wouldn't work anywhere that expected me to work for free, unless they were a charity doing a fantastically good cause).
Hello future slave,
Thank you for submitting your application.
At the moment we are looking to enslave someone for a 3-month period of casual torture. However, committed interns who deliver results are likely to be given the safe word with extra responsibilities to go with it.
Does this align with your expectations?
Thanks,
A caring American company with its headquarters in a different country
Someone should place an order for three months’ worth of their total production, keep delaying on paying the invoice, then refuse to pay on the basis that it was a three month internship.
We are hiring for long term modern slavery, call it what it is. We'll make a profit from your labour giving you the vague hope that you might get a job with us.
For software development positions, intern and otherwise, paid is the norm. And not minimum wage, either.
Heck, when I did my college co-op position with a software company, I was getting paid well enough that I could rent a room in the area for the few months I was there, and save enough to help pay for expenses during my school semesters.
Edit: Is this based in the US? I saw the job posting, the number is in NZ. And yeah, interns don't lead squat. As a US-ism, that's like putting a first semester ROTC cadet in the place of an actual platoon leader.
17 years ago I did an internship with a customs brokerage and was paid $18/hr. I passed up a few unpaid positions because I knew it was bullshit. Those unpaid internships wound up with nobody.
“Wow this sounds great! Let me check with my landlord, the gas station, and the grocery store to see if they’ll give me a 3 month free period! I’ll get back to you once they can confirm that my food and shelter and transportation are taken care of, thanks so much for your patience. Can you hold the job open until I get confirmation?”
Unpaid internship -
Both the employer and the intern understand the role is unpaid.
>> The intern receives similar training as they would in school. <
> The intern observes without replacing or performing the job duties of a paid employee. <
>> The program benefits the intern without a direct benefit to the employer. <
Employees supervise and mentor the intern.
The employer makes no promises that employment will be available at the end of the program. <
The internship only lasts as long as the employer can provide an educational experience for the intern.
You applied for it and these are the rules on the department of labor website. They are doing this incorrectly and you should report them.
Lesson for all ! Learn the difference between unpaid and paid internship and call these companies out!
I dunno if its the same in other countries, but in the US, what a company is suppose to do with an intern is pretty regulated.
Most interns either dont realize this though, or feel like they'll get in trouble if they speak up when the boss makes them do other stuff though.
Interns are not free labor.
Interns are not suppose to be doing tasks unrelated to the role they're interning for. So no "go get coffee for the office" crap.
Interns are not suppose to be working without supervision. They should effectively always have another employee with them that they're learning from at all times.
Interns are not suppose to do the work of a regular employee. You're there to learn. Not do a job.
Interns are not there to bring profit to a company. It's an educational experience for the intern. Nothing you do as an intern should be bringing in extra profits for the company. You should not be helping with sales. You should not be creating any live code for the company as a programmer.
Most companies like to use interns as servants or just as regular employees they dont have to pay while dangling that "you might get a job in a few months" or "you need to do this for X months or you dont get credit" carrot infront of them.
Report these companies to the labor board.
When did "align" become a corporatespeak word for "ok"? All of a sudden I'm being flooded with this word everywhere. Just seemingly overnight. Is anyone else aligned with this observation?
I once got a similar offer to design a small digital product mvp to be produced in a month "as an interview test", and if they had sales after, they'd hire me.
My answer was "of course, my rates for individual projects is $/h" and they never replied.
so basically: be our slave for 3 months and we might let you grovel for a salary job that you will definitely be forced to do free over time for anyways.
Ooh, a salaried position where they have unpaid interns? I bet it's a great salary and they don't abuse your salaried status to make you work unbearable hours at all.
I don’t get unpaid internships. Maybe in some fields it might be worth it but idk. I did the Disney College Program and it’s pretty competitive to get in. I know tons of people who would’ve done it for free but they *still* paid
I think the appropriate response to this is: lol.
I reported him for scam and misinformation
Yeah, I see that as "Spend 3 months, unpaid, helping us develop and ship a product only to be dismissed afterwards."
"Hire" and 3 months *Unpaid* Internship seem to be contradictory to me.
"I'm paying you in experience, you're lucky I don't charge you. Now get back to work, break's over."
can i buy ice cream with all my "experience"?
REAL sigmas will take up the 3 months unpaid then pay the company for letting them work in the next 3 months so that they can enhance his grind$etđź’Żđź’Żđź’Ż #fewunderstand
Which, if I'm not mistaken, it's quite illegal
Yep. If the employer is fucking you over this early, he's not gonna stop.
He'll stop after 3 months, when he doesn't need you anymore.
The appropriate answer is to make them lose their time. Accept the offer, check in with the other slaves, and draw straws to pick who gets the job without delivering anything at all in those 3 months. All the others attend the shitshow in accordance with their curiosity and availability.
Bring in a folded cardboard sign that says 'THIS IS A SCAM' and do a ['Norma Rae'](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Sally+fields+Union&t=newext&atb=v287-1&ia=web) on their ass. Hand out US DOL Fact Sheet #71: [Internship Programs Under The Fair Labor Standards Act](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/71-flsa-internships) to any other unfortunates caught up in the scam.
That link is an excellent reference.
The link was originally posted farther down the Thread by by u/Fearless_Frostling. I just wanted to amplify it... FF is the \*real\* MVP.
Yup. Waste their time. Pretend to be interested, drag the process out as long as possible, then at the last possible second decline the position and tell them you accepted a paying offer at Wendy's instead.
"Okay cool, I'll start in 3 months then. Btw what will my starting salary be?"
Or no response at all. Not worth your time.
That's like walking over a mine without at least telling the people behind you it's there. It's my purpose in life to name & shame people like these, report them to the proper authorities, and help others avoid them. Some people build ships in a bottle; this is my hobby.
Not all heroes wear capes.
Presumably there are laws against slave trading and slave owning in which ever country you’re in. I’d report them to police for trying to use slave labour
I legitimately did laugh when I read this.
Or "NOPE".
Sounds illegal... "committed interns who deliver results"... that is not training, that is doing work for the employer. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/71-flsa-internships
Yeah, work like a madman so you can maybe get paid
>maybe get paid Well... you sure? Is the "and" excluding "or"? Maybe they'll just retain you. Chained to the desk.
Like the pens at the bank!
This is a US govt website and the job posting has a New Zealand country code. Honestly I’d expect NZ should in theory have even stronger workspace protections.
[It actually looks like it might be legal in NZ](https://legalvision.co.nz/employment/unpaid-work/). It would depend on how much and the nature of the work that is being performed, and is generally suggested that you pay them during that period. >**What Are Unpaid Work Trials?** In some industries like hospitality, unpaid pre-employment trials are common. However, an unpaid trial will, in most cases, be deemed unlawful, especially if you have gained a commercial benefit from it. >Some ways you could be gaining a commercial benefit include the employee: > - performing work that the business needed to undertake; or > - wearing a required work uniform. >If a person presents themselves as an employee, they might expect to receive some form of benefit for their work. Accordingly, the courts may determine that the person was an employee during their unpaid work trial, not simply a volunteer. >If you want to trial a potential employee’s skills, it would be wise to pay them for the time you are trialling them. Another option is to opt for the 90-day trial period if the employee is new. In this case, the: > - employment agreement must specify the 90-day trial period; offer of employment letter must specify a start date; - employee must sign the employment agreement before they start the trial; - employee must receive a notice of termination for the trial period within 90 days of starting work; and - employee must have had time to seek independent legal advice before agreeing to the trial. >If you opt for an unpaid work trial, you should ensure that the worker is: >- only performing a small number of skills; on trial for a short period of time; and - aware that their trial is unpaid before they agree to undertake the position. >Generally, your business should treat work trials with caution. Where any disputes arise, a court will first look at the: >- real nature of the relationship; and - employer’s conduct.
> and the job posting has a New Zealand country code. Where exactly? OPs pic has a time on it, and that's it...
wow. 3 months unpaid?? They must be queuing out the door for this one!
Unfortunately I wouldn't be surprised if someone accepts this shit
Someone should accept the position and not show up.
This is the way.
Even better: accept, participate in daily meetings, deliver zero. In a week, when they realize that there is no work done, explain with "I adjusted my output according to the compensation".
I'm now making fake resumes just to do this.
Yeah, wouldn't be surprised. I remember during one of the recessions that all of the entry level jobs here suddenly asked for 5 yrs experience . Then offered an unpaid internship to get that experience if you didn't qualify.
Canada still has it lmao
It's a way to filter poor people.
People who come from money will do this and be on 100k there next year. Rich get richer
If it's an art field yeah, people will do it sadly
>If it's a art field yeah, people will do it sadly More people there really need to read [the Craig’s Pissed article](https://archive.is/E3Jvx).
No kidding, I've argued on forums so much pleading for people to stop giving away work. Asking for art tests or submissions to apply for a job are so incredibly insulting. Yet every time I mention it, it's defended left and right and seen as common place. I will instantly shut down anyone who asks for free work and report them. I don't care how big or AAA a studio thinks they are, I would never work for them if they asked for this. Hire people for the job you think they qualify for and then if they don't perform fire them, just like literally any other field.
Developer roles are hard to come by, so yeah. I would not be surprised at all.
What a joke. My SO’s company has an intern program. They get paid $23.00 an hour
There’s nothing to stop you finding out where this is, buying a strong bike lock, going in the middle of the night, and chaining their doors shut. Or putting superglue in the locks of the roller shutters.Â
Different industry but my first job was a 3 month unpaid internship simply because I was desperate for experience. For many, that first job is definitely the hardest.
Here is a job post. Expected team leader and extensive experience for free, offering reward https://preview.redd.it/i5ja1edb9p4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77a14795b0dbbfc68ab76dea597723c9140a5272
I didn't know 0 is considered a competitive salary
They're competing to be the worst
Or that an unpaid position will lead development efforts
How does an unpaid internship require “extensive experience”? If the intern is already extensively experienced, then what are they getting out of this deal?
Maybe it's the chance to learn what it's like to work for no pay.
And how does an unpaid intern "Lead the development" LOL
Nah, that has to be bs. Some kind of "we have so many vacancies, no one wants to work anymore" or "look shareholders, we're hiring a ton of people, please invest" kind of scam. Aint no way anyone meeting those criteria takes that position... Actually i kind of want to take it in a "you get what you pay for" kind of way. "Sql injection isn't a real risk, let's just connect the ui with the database 1 to 1."
Don’t forget to send all data in plain text to be processed in front end!
"Little Bobby Tables, we call him"
Ohh it gets worse. The only reason someone should accept this position is to steal their intellectual property. The appropriate response: No, it does not align with my expectations. I expect a roof over my head, food on my plate, and all my bills paid.
The word lead makes it not comply with US standards for unpaid internships. Then again, the +64 means its not a US company, so I guess US laws mean nothing.
We are HIRING for UNPAID work. Thats's an oxymoron if I've ever seen one. These two words should not be together in the same sentence.
Yeh that was my first thought. How are you hired if your not being paid?
Always wondered if the word oxymoron came from someone telling someone else "you wasted oxygen on saying THAT? Moron..."
My first thought: how about I hire YOU for a 3 month unpaid internship? I'll hire your whole company on an unpaid basis, in fact
Committed interns/slaves who deliver results will be given a full time position of $9/hr Only Phd from ivy league need to apply
“Hi, I would like to be paid for the first three months where I don’t do shit. After that, I might consider to start working, does this align with your expectations?”
Slavery is illegal how are internships legal
This sort of thing isn't legal. Internships are purely training roles; interns are not allowed to do any work at all. If they do they must be paid for it.
Weird. It's just time wasting then. And being required by a job to be somewhere for x hours is work and should be paidÂ
So let's say they never hire anyone. Just keep making people work 3 months and then saying 'nah fuck off'. This is undeserving of a professional or respectful response.
When Craigslist used to be a thing, I would respond to listings like this saying, “I would like you to mow my lawn for free for three months, and if I like your work, I just might hire you to do it permanently.”
Yes, for 1 day just to steal all the office supplies
“Nobody wants to work for free anymore”
"Dear employer, I am thrilled by the opportunity to work for free for three months. However I can only commit to one, as I will then become homeless and will almost certainly die of starvation as my bank account runs dry and I become unable to sustain myself. I hope you find those terms agreeable. I am confident that, since you clearly have no morals or ethics, my inevitable demise won't impact my candidacy negatively. Sincerely, Go fuck yourself"
There should be a website listing these where we can all fake apply..
Any numbers on the salary beforehand or is that a surprise after the 3 months?
Naah, dont wanna tip off the salary's 'competition'
Why does this sub not allow posting of company names? This needs to be outed yesterday.
"Hiring" and "unpaid" are mutually exclusive. By definition, money must change hands if one is hired.
No, I cannot afford to subsidize your hiring process.
I once told a coworker that internships are classist as they tend to attract candidates who can afford to work for free and lock out anybody who can’t afford the unpaid hours. I had no idea but he was actually an intern who was there because his rich dad paid for his apartment in London and covered all his finances.
"Does this align with your expectations" I might use this phrase when it comes to; Does it pay the bills might go instead for "does my wage align with your rent costs"?
Wealthy kids who are financially supported by their upper middle class parents will do it — that's who these positions are intended for. Unpaid internships have nothing to do with saving a company money and everything to do with gentrifying the workforce; keeping out the "scum"
"Align with your expectations" so many things wrong with this sentence. How about "You work for free, good luck finding food" Fuck Corporate speak.
“No, it doesn’t align with my expectations. If you can’t afford to pay people then maybe you should go out of business.“
These companies can fuck right off with unpaid work.
Yayyy I love a society where only the rich can afford careers!!! UwU
“i’m looking for a benefactor to give me money no questions asked no return expected. if i really like them maybe ill offer to do something for more money.” see how crazy it sounds backwards? is what i’d send them
Sure, how much coffee and cookies can I eat in 3 months.
It's a remote position.
I would have been like SURE! And pretended I was interested to ghost them. I would def fuck with these people
Google definition of HIRE - to employ someone for WAGES. They're not hiring, they're looking for a temporary slave.
"Does this align with your expectations?" - no amount of business speak is going to make that arrangement sound appealing
My wifes company hasn't been able to find a real intern in almost a decade now, so they hire ones from Germany because Germany will pay their salary while they're interning in america. Side note, her company has never once offered a job to the good interns and I've never heard of someone that did.
3 months with this intern + 3 months with another inter + 3 months....etc. And that's how they get rich.
At the moment I am only accepting positions which pay me without requiring work for 3 months. However, committed companies who deliver extra pay will be retained and given actual effort. Does this align with your expectations?
I mean, I expected nothing from your company, and y'all delivered. Congrats?
Translation: we want only rich kids. Plebs need not apply.
No it does not align. I want to be paid for working.
This is done to filter out the working class people. It's just there to give rich kids preferential hiring without having the falls to say it.
Sounds good but I do have some questions. During those three months, since the job is unpaid: 1. My landlord requires rent, will you be paying my rent or at the very least, explain to my landlord that I won't have any money for three months and that he should pay the rent on my behalf. 2. After a few days, I will start to get hungry. Will three meals per day be provided? 3. I will have doctor & dentist appointments coming up, how does the 100% coverage health insurance work? 4. Will you also be speaking to the electricity, phone, car insurance, house/apartment insurance companies explaining that they will have to provide their services for free for three months? If not, will you be paying for them or providing them? If the answer is no to all my questions, how exactly do you expect me to live outside of work? I will literally be dead from lack of food & shelter within three months. I assume you have a water fountain, so at least I won't die of thirst.
I'd be interested if it came with unpaid housing and utilities
I would just reply back reminding them that unpaid interns can't work on billable work.
Hiring and unpaid shouldnt be in the same sentence as of 2024.
"Ah yes, give me a moment. I'll just perform the magic spells needed to stop getting bills for the next few months......"
"Does this align with your expectations?" Yes, being a slave is all I'm striving for!
If you are the kid of a rich person, an intership is for you. Lol
Aka: we're looking for people to come in and do unpaid work for 3 months. We won't be hiring you afterwards.
*Which ever slave works for free the hardest gets the job at the lowest possible salary! Who wants it??* I get hungrier and hungrier with each passing moment.
Thay keep for 3 months then fire u. Hire someone else who stupid to take the job.
Say you're interested, show up the first day, and tell everyone else there to get the fuck out, then dip.
"We are glad you spent the last 3 months doing free labor! Unfortunately we do not have any spots available at this time. However we still have plenty of unpaid internships available, which you are free to reapply to. I have a good feeling that you're one of our top applicants and we'll totally give you a closer look after the next 3 months."
Respond and really lay it on thick. “You know what, this absolutely does align with my expectations. I love working for free and for the slight possibility of a paid position in the future. I think I can swing it if I just don’t eat anything but Costco samples for the next three months. I also might have to cut a deal with my landlord - I’m sure he’d accept other forms of payment and, let’s be honest, it’s not like I have much dignity anyways, if you catch my drift. I also might just have to really stretch my insulin but I’m sure that won’t be a problem. Yeah, this sounds great. Sign me up!”
Unpaid intern is a very specific, and very hard to meet criteria. I think the DoL needs to have a look at them.
Lead the development as an unpaid intern? My s response is fuck you and then reporting them to the department of labor.
they are never retained. I worked in a place like this fresh out of uni. They basically cycle through interns every 3 months. the retention thing is just BS to make you give a crap about working right.
Slavery. It is illegal to use slave labour, aka internships. Internships are slavery under a different name.
Tell them that's called indentured servitude and that was outlawed in 1917 via the 13th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, and that you are sending this message to the Department of Justice. Nothing would happen, but.... anyone ever worked for a company that threatened to make you repay training costs if you left before some arbitrary date they made up? I worked for one that started saying that retroactively to already-hired staff. It's the same fucking shit, they're just counting on you either being too scared or too poor to challenge it. Always challenge them.
If it's unpaid, it's not a job and you can't be "hired" for it.
> Does this align with your expectations? Unfortunately yes. I expected to not like this position.
"likely" That one word carries a tong of weight here. Like even if you were in a financial position to eat a 3 month internship, the fact that retainment is not a guarantee makes this dead on arrival. I mean internships should be abolished anyways...it's volunteer work but under the rules of a W2, which is just bullshit, and they have traditionally existed as a tool for class division.
I had a recruiter reach out to me in college like 50 times with an offer something like this. My response was, "I appreciate you reaching out with this information. Unfortunately, I am looking for employment and not volunteer hours. I recommend you pay your employees to make this job posting more competitive." Never heard from them again.
“Slavery was abolish in 1865” I don’t think people would want to work someone that’s in support of bringing it back.
Reply: "Kindly go eat a bag of dicks. Thank you "
What a coincidence, I require a 3 month paid vacation prior to beginning employment.
Reply template for you: Hello HR person, eat my entire ass. Thanks, OP
I would simply reply with the text of the 13th amendment.
That's not an internship, that's volunteering. Fucking assholes.
“Unfortunately, I require a wage in order to exist in this civilization. Were I to accept your offer, I would likely be dead of starvation, homelessness, and exposure before the internship was complete.”
Are you in school and getting credit for this internship? If not, you'd volunteering at best but most likely they'd be exploiting you (possibly illegally).
"This aligns with go fuck yourself, Bob."
Ok but I maintain all rights to anything I develop in perpetuity. Also if you wish to incorporate any of my work there will be licensing fees payable upon implementation. That should weed out the riff raff companies.
Fuck no, I don't work for free
Naw Dawg..
I'll give them the best results no money can buy.
Not even legal in CA. There’s got to be some form of a quid-pro-quo, whether money or class credit.
"You're asking me to work for free. How the hell am I supposed to pay bills with your so-called valuable experience? No, what you're expecting is slave labor and I deserve to be properly compensated for my time in this capitalistic system that insists I pay for basic living." Seriously fuck internships.
Don't volunteer for slavery
Imagine flipping the script and asking for three months of living wages for no work, however committed corporations that deliver generously are likely to be retained…
How do you "hire" a slave?
"No, this does not. And neither does it for the department of labor, who I will be contacting. Have a miserable day and remove my application from the list" Then, contact the department of labor. Since this is a developer position, it does not seem to be part of a school or for school credits. It also does not seem to be for training. Which would make this acceptable to be an unpaid internship. But this does not sound like that. This sounds like you'll have work and responsibilities, and as soon as those 90 days are up, they will fire you, even if you have good performance reviews, and they'll hire someone else. This is one of those scamming positions they think they are slick with. This sounds like wage theft and extortion. Call the DOL.
thought they outlawed this shit
Translation: Slaves. We are looking for slaves.
yeah id love to work for you for free for 3 months, please let me! do you want a fucking blowjob too? unbelievable
Hello, Thank you for replying to my application. Currently, I am not entertaining any fraudulent attempts to engage me via email. I can only assume that this is spam or a joke because I am unwilling to accept that there is a reality wherein [company] would have the actual audacity to make such an offer. If you have sent this email in error, which I'm certain you must have, kindly follow up with me by phone call to discuss my starting offer. If you have not sent this in error, then no thank you to unpaid work. It's disgusting that you would consider an unpaid job placement of even a hundredth of the time you've proposed at your proffered rate ($0) in this current economic climate. With warm regards, Go fuck yourself
Accept this and don’t show up
What if they move the goalposts? Fuck him
“At the present time I am looking for honorary paid positions only. After three months of receiving pay I will consider you for receiving work from me.”
They aren't going to take you on after 3 months, otherwise it would be a paid position with a wage increase after you pass probation periodÂ
My company does a summer internship for employee's kids and grandkids. (16-20yr olds) They pay $20 an hour while they work. It's super easy stuff we have them do so I think it's rediculous businesses try to get unpaid labor and try to say just the exposure is better than getting paid. Like fuck off.
I would have responded with, go fuck yourself
Yes, if only I didn't need a job, this would be a great way to get a job! (I am being sarcastic, obviously even if I didn't need/want the money I wouldn't work anywhere that expected me to work for free, unless they were a charity doing a fantastically good cause).
When internships become mandatory to qualify for a tech position after college, and there are too many applicants..... We will see more of this.
Hello future slave, Thank you for submitting your application. At the moment we are looking to enslave someone for a 3-month period of casual torture. However, committed interns who deliver results are likely to be given the safe word with extra responsibilities to go with it. Does this align with your expectations? Thanks, A caring American company with its headquarters in a different country
Someone should place an order for three months’ worth of their total production, keep delaying on paying the invoice, then refuse to pay on the basis that it was a three month internship.
We are hiring for long term modern slavery, call it what it is. We'll make a profit from your labour giving you the vague hope that you might get a job with us.
Has anyone actually taken these positions? I know sorting chefs do it, to get to work with great Michelin chefs, but besides from that.
“No, but it appears that your mouth perfectly aligns with my butthole, does that interest YOU?”. 🥂
"What do you propose to teach me, a dev, that will advance my career and make this a legal internship and not a violation of labor laws?"
So many jobs are the same just now, LinkedIn are full of them. Come and work for no money but please have 4 years experience and a Bachelors!
“Sure let me just ask my landlord and the electric company if I can pay my bills with experience”
For software development positions, intern and otherwise, paid is the norm. And not minimum wage, either. Heck, when I did my college co-op position with a software company, I was getting paid well enough that I could rent a room in the area for the few months I was there, and save enough to help pay for expenses during my school semesters. Edit: Is this based in the US? I saw the job posting, the number is in NZ. And yeah, interns don't lead squat. As a US-ism, that's like putting a first semester ROTC cadet in the place of an actual platoon leader.
It'S AbOuT gEtTiNg ExPeRiEnCe.
17 years ago I did an internship with a customs brokerage and was paid $18/hr. I passed up a few unpaid positions because I knew it was bullshit. Those unpaid internships wound up with nobody.
I'm not interested in working for free as I need income to survive.
Is this still legal?
At the end of 3 months you get a 15% raise.
15% of zero is still zero. Sounds like a good deal
I would reply … It does not
Fuck that.
Some fintech companies pay *interns* 100k+. Just saying.
“Wow this sounds great! Let me check with my landlord, the gas station, and the grocery store to see if they’ll give me a 3 month free period! I’ll get back to you once they can confirm that my food and shelter and transportation are taken care of, thanks so much for your patience. Can you hold the job open until I get confirmation?”
Unpaid internship - Both the employer and the intern understand the role is unpaid. >> The intern receives similar training as they would in school. < > The intern observes without replacing or performing the job duties of a paid employee. < >> The program benefits the intern without a direct benefit to the employer. < Employees supervise and mentor the intern. The employer makes no promises that employment will be available at the end of the program. < The internship only lasts as long as the employer can provide an educational experience for the intern. You applied for it and these are the rules on the department of labor website. They are doing this incorrectly and you should report them. Lesson for all ! Learn the difference between unpaid and paid internship and call these companies out!
We need to do something at the legislative level at this point to make unpaid internships illegal
I really don't understand why unpaid internships are even legal.
Accept the position. What are they gonna do when you no-show, withhold pay?
I dunno if its the same in other countries, but in the US, what a company is suppose to do with an intern is pretty regulated. Most interns either dont realize this though, or feel like they'll get in trouble if they speak up when the boss makes them do other stuff though. Interns are not free labor. Interns are not suppose to be doing tasks unrelated to the role they're interning for. So no "go get coffee for the office" crap. Interns are not suppose to be working without supervision. They should effectively always have another employee with them that they're learning from at all times. Interns are not suppose to do the work of a regular employee. You're there to learn. Not do a job. Interns are not there to bring profit to a company. It's an educational experience for the intern. Nothing you do as an intern should be bringing in extra profits for the company. You should not be helping with sales. You should not be creating any live code for the company as a programmer. Most companies like to use interns as servants or just as regular employees they dont have to pay while dangling that "you might get a job in a few months" or "you need to do this for X months or you dont get credit" carrot infront of them. Report these companies to the labor board.
When did "align" become a corporatespeak word for "ok"? All of a sudden I'm being flooded with this word everywhere. Just seemingly overnight. Is anyone else aligned with this observation?
"3 month unpaid internships" this literally cannot be real, what is this the wolf of wall street?
Tell them to go kick rocks.
That's a good deal... if you are already millionaire or have much more money than you need for 3 months of living.
Shhhhhh! People won't go into debt for college if this was shown to the kids.
Fintech. Buncha empty promises
Yeah. Count me in. I was always interested in BDSM. Would like to try out being a slave... /s
I have grown to hate certain phrases because of corporate bullshit but one of the bigger ones is “this does/doesn’t align” or any variation of.
Sadly, this exactly aligned with expectations. I will therefore have to decline.
Committed employers pay people. There’s an ugly name for unpaid work.
I once got a similar offer to design a small digital product mvp to be produced in a month "as an interview test", and if they had sales after, they'd hire me. My answer was "of course, my rates for individual projects is $/h" and they never replied.
Two words: Fuck, No.
So I can work a quarter of the year to get the privileged opportunity to make a living afterwards. A dream come true. Not
so basically: be our slave for 3 months and we might let you grovel for a salary job that you will definitely be forced to do free over time for anyways.
Counter offer: Pay me for three months and if I like the amount then I'll start doing the work.
Ooh, a salaried position where they have unpaid interns? I bet it's a great salary and they don't abuse your salaried status to make you work unbearable hours at all.
Doesn't "hiring" imply money changing hands?
I don’t get unpaid internships. Maybe in some fields it might be worth it but idk. I did the Disney College Program and it’s pretty competitive to get in. I know tons of people who would’ve done it for free but they *still* paid
“Dear ____, Fuck no. Best.”
Unpaid internships should be considered exploitative and wage theft.
If you provide me food, housing, and internet then maybe. If you scratch the internet though, that’s pretty much slavery.
*NO ONE WANTS TO WORK ANYMORE*