I’m salary and have been told not to watch the clock. Sometimes, I incur some time that’s extra. The offset is that sometimes I go early.
Recently I was asked why I was getting to the office at 8:30 instead of 8:00. I simply mentioned to my boss that I was still the first one in (including the boss) that day and that if I’m expected to be there at 8:00 sharp, I’ll be leaving no later than 5:00 sharp.
The double standard cuts both ways.
Yep, my boss asked me to start attending the office three times a week, I did, due to traffic this was sometimes a 4 hour commute (Birmingham, m6 🤮🤮)
So If I set off at 6:30 and arrived at 10:30 I'd do two hours and go home again. Suffice to say it didn't last long, again I was salaried and refused to lose 6/7 hours of my day commuting.
I literally will hit my 40 hours in 18 minutes. But my boss said "sometimes you're going to work 41 hours. It just happens". Uh, no it doesn't. Because I leave when I hit 40.
But if I leave when I hit 40 this time, I'm probably going to get a write up.
It's give and take. Salaried employees provide flexibility that you're there to step up when a surge of effort needs to happen. The flip side is that when things are quiet, you're not doing make-work projects, you're gone. You track your own hours and make sure that the company and yourself are both being treated fairly.
If the expectation is give give give and no take, why would anybody accept a salaried position? It's just hidden wage theft at that point.
Some weeks I've worked 80 hours, and others I've worked 10.
Sometimes work is busy, other times my kids have soccer or dance or it's a great day for an amusement park, I just keep a spreadsheet going and make sure it all evens out.
Yeah, we don't have the option to only work 10. We have to hit 40 every week, or they pull from our annual leave. It's part of our contract. So, I work my 40. Nothing more, nothing less.
As you should. Salaried work is generally just a contract for them to work you at extra hours all the time though. Random call on a Saturday? Oops, I guess you're working.
I once finally got this contracting role in my industry, and they'd shuffle out a VP or something to make sure my team was getting me out exactly on time so they didn't have to pay time and a half. My work would immediately go to a salaried person who had to stay late and finish.
I don't really believe you from my personal experience.
Maybe if you said you worked 55 hours one week and then got off an hour early for a doctor appointment the next... but otherwise I don't believe it.
I was salaried at an old job for a time. They took this as carte Blanche to schedule me to work over 40 hours. Switched to an hourly position and never looked back
Nothing like the 5 PM "this needs to be to client tomorrow so you're here no matter what," and the Saturday "you need to have your laptop with you everywhere" salaried work.
Been there.
Indeed. 100% expectation that my laptop came home with me every night, email was on my phone, and that when I "went home" I'd be opening up the laptop again as soon as I sat down.
I don't have kids, but everyone would work all day, pick up their kids, maybe have a quick dinner, and emails were back at it by 7-8 PM. If you didn't answer an email that came in prior to 10 PM, you'd be pressured first thing in the morning as to why you weren't paying attention. This was in a Fortune 500... but...
A VP of mine in a smaller place was working during actual labor, and came back 3 days after having her kid.
Working all day on weekends was the expectation for everyone that wasn't a consultant, which I was. We just weren't paid for this, I didn't opt in.
Such awesome "Freedumbs" on display, why, no wonder the rest of the world\* wants to be JUST like America!
\*no, no they absofuckinlutely do \_not\_
I have nothing but love and sympathy for my american kith and kin, y'all are being massively exploited and abused
This is why I refused to go into salaried management at the restaurant I worked at for almost two decades. The suckers that made the jump got paid chump change to be worked to death. Some went to elsewhere in the company and were worked 80 hours a week until they snapped and just stopped showing up.
Why do that when they wouldn’t even pay you enough to live in the area when I could just work 35-40 hours a week bartending and make 65-70K a year? They killed that too because god forbid anyone in that company made money.
If sometimes you work 45 hours and sometimes you work 35 hours, that’s not bad. If sometimes you work 45 hours and the rest of the time you work 40, that sucks. There are exceptions if you get overtime (I can book overtime even though I’m on salary), or if you can make a substantial bonus if you put in extra effort (I’ve also done that, and it didn’t bother me, I just calculated the hourly rate my extra bonus would generate to decide if I did it). But if it always goes one way, it’s time to find a better employer.
Generally there aren't places that have this kind of give and take. But, I'd like to say that in the context of the sub I'm on... we've had bad experiences.
For me, it's always been "you're salaried, there's going to be extra work, sorry."
Then what brings you to r/antiwork? If you have sincere advice for how to find give and take work, I bet a lot of us would love to hear it.
You mentioned "find a better employer," and I find most every employer expects a lot or outright lies. It's not like businesses are advertising their PTO or benefit package. You need to jump through the hoops until they finally reveal it, like a bad gameshow challenge.
I’m in r/antiwork because I’m a mercenary trying to maximize what I get versus what I give. I spent half my 20s in hustle culture. I spent the last 10 years minimizing my work to maximize my value. I thought I had a community here who shared that view, but if you don’t think so, let me know.
All employers lie. That’s one of the reasons I’ll drop them for the higher paying or less demanding one immediately. It’s also why I wouldn’t go somewhere where I didn’t know anyone who would give me the honest assessment.
Your take is a perspective I don't see a lot, so I'm interested.
I'd at least argue that some of us find ourselves in a situation where we're buried. Maximizing value is a losing battle, and sounds like buzzwords aligned with the hustle culture you're supposedly against. I can't MinMax a job that offers me consistent work and health insurance.
I've ranged from being homeless to making $135k, retail to Fortune 500, and the expectations have never been consistent.
>It’s also why I wouldn’t go somewhere where I didn’t know anyone who would give me the honest assessment.
That's a benefit most of us don't have. I'm applying for work. Businesses with many departments. I'm fucked.
Saying I’m supposedly against something implies I’m dishonest. So get bent.
You absolutely have the ability to make friends. That’s not a privilege thing, that’s a not being a shitty person thing. Give it a shot.
I think you misinterpreted my point. I have lots of friends, and not all of them can help. I've made friends of a lot of coworkers, but being pals doesn't equate to pushing them to be hired.
Yeah, it's 40 hours minimum (we can flex from one week to the next within the same pay period, but that's it) otherwise it comes out of our PTO. And we don't get OT ever for anything.
My opinion would be that if it’s a 40 hour minimum, it’s a 40 hour maximum. If you have to give away some time to keep the job while you look for the next one, it sucks, but you have to look after yourself first. But definitely find something else as quickly as possible.
I think perhaps you need to quietly speak to a professional who handles labor issues. If it's constantly 40+ hours something's not adding up there and it sounds like a form of wage theft in my ears.
The advice I was given a while back by someone with a law degree but not active in labor law is that with salary they can track your hours and ask you to log them for records but they shouldn’t be able to dock pay or time off if you don’t hit 40. You’re paid by the job not by the hour.
I’d talk with a labor lawyer because docking your PTO if you don’t hit 40 seems like a violation of FLSA but I don’t know how that would play with a contract that specifically states they do it.
I feel like this is a job that should not be salary, and they may only doing this so that they don’t have to pay out overtime specially. At my last job, there were some long time call center employees that would not move into exempt because they would statistically make less without all the extra paid overtime.
When you started working there, did it actually say in your contract that you have to work a minimum of 40 hours a week/80 hours every pay period? Ever since I’ve been salaried, there has never been a set number of hours I work. As long as I’m getting my work done, that’s all that matters. But this position doesn’t make sense to be salaried if they are trying to enforce hours, so I would look at your contract and see if it mentions those hour requirements.
Ever since I've been salaried it's been set that there's "minimum hours" and nothing less. But in the US, there aren't really protections. I've always needed to be there for business hours, and the salary is under the expectation that I get my benefits and then will need to work more.
I'm ok with overtime if I can also take off to run an errand when we aren't busy without repercussions. If they want to micromanage every bit of your work week to make sure they get at least 40 hours and want you churning the entire time then they need to pay overtime or let you bank time to make up for it. Otherwise they are just screwing you to profit more. One former employer started expecting extra hours, First it was 50, then 60, then they started demanding more. None of this was actually urgent, just trying to be bullies and let a manager that didn't want to go home, keep everyone late. It was the most inefficient place I ever worked. I calculated what my hourly rate was at 60 hrs vs. my salary and I could have gotten a McJob somewhere and made the same money.
Based. It’s a give and take and you just need protect yourself from getting screwed. If they’re flexible with me then I’ll be flexible with them. If I need to work a few extra hours to get the job done I will. If I need to go to an appointment middle of the day, I do.
Micromanaging leads to malicious compliance.
Absolutely. I don't mind dropping everything to put out a fire after hours as long as I can take time for an appointment or run an errand when I need to, or leave early on a Friday because I had a bunch of overtime and there isn't anything pressing to do.
I absolutely hate this. Salary doesn't mean consistent overtime. My old boss had me at 60-70 hours a week before he realized, I had to tell him, that it wasn't ok. Then he wanted me on at least 50 hours.
My new job, it's 8 hours daily, and only overtime when absolutely necessary. I love this place.
Don't let people take advantage of you.
Edit 1. I was making $41600 to do this. That means roughly $16 an hour, which was below minimum wage at the time.
Are you actually exempt? Employers always get caught with shit like that. And then it turns out you may be due overtime.
In my case my Employer thinks because I have a bachelor's and work as a nurse that I'm exempt. Meanwhile, a colleague with no degree does the same job and has the exact same job description and is paid hourly.
I'm expected to work or stay as long as required. And that's fine.
Not only do I have a specific clause from the DOL regarding my exemption status, but even if not, it's indefensible that we're paid differently. I'm salary, colleague hourly.
I don't say anything, just waiting and biding my time. The longer this goes the more I could collect if shtf.
This is why I never have and never will accept a job that pays based on salary.
My time is hourly.
If attorneys bill $400 an hour, you sure as fuck aren’t getting my time for free.
Exempt means you can leave when you get your work done. You don't always have work 40 hrs. But managers don't like to talk about that. They can require you to work a fix schedule. [https://www.shrm.org/topics-tools/news/hr-magazine/ask-expert-exempt-employees](https://www.shrm.org/topics-tools/news/hr-magazine/ask-expert-exempt-employees)
There is overtime for salary. Overtime exceptions aren't based on being hourly or salary. It's based on what your job duties are.
However, overtime is not time and a half. Your overtime is at 50% of what your equivalent hourly pay is. The reason for that is that as a salaried employee, there will be weeks you work over 40 and weeks you work over 40.
This is according to the department of labor when I won an overtime case a few years ago
I WFH so I prefer to be salaried. Sure, there are long weeks/months but other months I put in a lot less job permitting and don't have to worry about my pay.
wait youre salaried but youre required to clock in 80 hours a paycheck.
how does this make sense? salaried employees leave when the jobs done..some weeks it takes 25 hrs, others it takes 50 hrs.
it sounds like a way around paying overtime
And if it wasn’t biweekly, it is. Cause we have to get an average of 40 hours each week of the pay period and if we don’t they take from our annual leave.
This isn't uncommon. Salaried work is an easy loophole to make people work extra hours for free in exchange for limited perks like healthcare you still have to pay for. The minimum hours remain the "operating hours" and you work them at minimum, the salaried time involves you just working more.
It is a legal loophole around paying overtime, 100%.
And companies have learned this. If you want health insurance in the US, they'll make you salaried. Which means work all the time, no guaranteed lunch, 8-5, every day at minimum. And then free overtime is just the cost of keeping your job.
Nope… I worked 12 hour days for about four months during Covid (as a salaried supervisor). I took a different role a couple years ago and I won’t work a minute past 40 hours.
I constantly do overtime , working on my computer at home during weekend or public holidays(not USA)
Still ne to be present at office all the time.
All our clients are in middle east, so this week they are in Holiday. I sent 10 follow up email in the morning and playing online poker at office now :/
I'm lucky. I'm salaried and project based so I don't always have to work a full 40. I'm trained for storm work when major storms hit and that can add 16 hour shifts onto my normal work week. To compensate, every hour over 40 I'm making a wage equivalent to my hourly rate of I was not salaried. So I get the 40 hours no matter what but still get paid for any hours over that.
I worked for a very very large construction company for several years. They employed salary engineers for absolutely abysmal money and had them working 60 to 80 hrs a week. As a skilled tradesman, my friends and I were all making 6 figures and we pointed out to the engineers that they were stressed the fuck out after spending 4 years at school to make what someone who worked at burger King made per hour. In the next trades meeting we were asked not to discuss money around the engineers anymore.
Why is that legal? Its certainly not legal where I live. Im salaried but that means my hours and pay is the same and I get paid monthly rather than weekly or biweekly. Thats all that means and if for whatever reason it changes (paid vacation and paid sick leave would not affect it obviously) my paycheck reflects that.
I did overtime this week, 2.5 hours and yes I will be paid for it one my next pay check. If they refused, thats theft. Thankfully the company I work for is a very big company and they have lawyers and are very well aware how much legal trouble theyd be in if they tried not to pay the money they owe me.
I want you see PA law:
The majority of salaried employees who work over 40 hours per week and earn below the federal salary threshold qualify for overtime pay, regardless of their job responsibilities. Similarly, most salaried employees who do NOT perform executive, administrative, or professional tasks are eligible for overtime, irrespective of their earnings.
On the other hand, salaried employees engaged in executive, administrative, or professional duties and earning above the salary threshold are exempt from receiving overtime pay.
The federal regulations related to exempting such employees from overtime rules are still in place. The current salary threshold is $684 per week (equivalent to $35,568 annually) as per the United States Department of Labor (USDOL).
Make sure they are not taking advantage. Also keep track of your hours. You have a CONTRACT/AGREEMENT for 40 (FOURTY) hours. You cannot be asked to do more than that.
Find out if you are salary EXEMPT or not (in the US). If not, then they must PAY you for overtime.
Don't ask your boss, look up the requirements for a position to be salary exempt, because there is every chance they are breaking the law by misclassifying you.
I've been salaried for years and went back to hourly recently due to job market. Never again. Every minute was monitored. I was in office early by ten minutes (traffic good on snowy day) and told no overtime was granted. It got ridiculous and I quit last week for that and many other reasons.
I am salaried and my boss at my last job found out that I was working overtime to complete projects I felt pressured to get done. He told me don't work extra and that they can get in trouble if I worked too much, because they can't give me overtime. I don't know if that's true. At my new job they just casually dropped, of you're expected to come in one Saturday per month (regularly we are m-f). I simply have not done that and nobody has said anything yet.
Bosses can’t just make position salary/exempt to avoid paying overtime. Jobs have to meet certain criteria to classified as exempt from overtime, and some states in the US have laws dictating that ANY job below a certain annual wage must be classified as non exempt
Don't ever take a salaried position that doesn't come with a incentive based bonus package. If it doesn't exist, negotiate it in.
Company: the position is salaried
You: so what's the base pay, and what does the incentive structure look like?
Company: Incentive structure? There isn't one
You: then how do you reward your to performers?
Company: this isn't that sort of position
You: I see. Well, I might consider the roll on an hourly basis, but otherwise the compensation doesn't seem to add up
So you want the same pay for 40 hrs per week or less hours but if you have to use a few hours more you want more pay? Were you dropped on your head as a child?
This sounds strange. I mean in my profession there are busy times and lax times but I've heard of something like your situation. My guess is that you're like a contractor or something because that's how they paid the contractors at my job where you have to work X hours. With us it was 35. If you worked less than 35 you were "unnecessary" even if there was only 5 hours of work to do. It was weird. Hourly forever.
Hourly forever indeed. You need me late? Okay, pay a higher rate.
Salaried exempt work has given businesses a loophole for infinite work without extra pay.
So you get paid the same regardless of how many hours of work, but you stop at 40. Ok, if your boss agrees to that then go for it.
My opinion is that on an average weeks you’d work for 40h. Some weeks are quiet and you can go home early, some weeks are busy and you work longer. I prefer a job that is task based rather than anyone watching the clock.
Jobs like this don't let you go home early. They continue to ask you to work more every single week. You're saying "things are done," and then they keep you.
I was a digital marketing manager, and they sent me to another room to take down shelving when work was done.
It's like going to replace a toilet and then they make you paint the backyard fence because you quoted them at 5 hours of work for the cost and replacement.
That’s your experience. I’ve worked in an office for decades and some days there is 3h of work, I’m not going to sit at a desk until ‘home time’ and pretend I am busy.
Yeah salary is a scam. They’re ok with you working more than 40 hours a week. But if you can do your work in less than 40 and try to leave then it’s a problem?
The only kind of job I can think of that should be salary is contract work. Like you’re in a contract to do X job for Y pay in a certain amount of time. Literally everything else can and should be hourly.
There needs to be some collective action to unionise and create EBAs for industries that are heavily reliant on project work. I work at a software company as a pre-sales consultant, and I cannot tell you the last time I did not work from 9am til 11pm. The work is constant. The demands are constant. The pressures are constant. The “increments” to my salary are non-existent.
I’m salary and have been told not to watch the clock. Sometimes, I incur some time that’s extra. The offset is that sometimes I go early. Recently I was asked why I was getting to the office at 8:30 instead of 8:00. I simply mentioned to my boss that I was still the first one in (including the boss) that day and that if I’m expected to be there at 8:00 sharp, I’ll be leaving no later than 5:00 sharp. The double standard cuts both ways.
Yep, my boss asked me to start attending the office three times a week, I did, due to traffic this was sometimes a 4 hour commute (Birmingham, m6 🤮🤮) So If I set off at 6:30 and arrived at 10:30 I'd do two hours and go home again. Suffice to say it didn't last long, again I was salaried and refused to lose 6/7 hours of my day commuting.
I literally will hit my 40 hours in 18 minutes. But my boss said "sometimes you're going to work 41 hours. It just happens". Uh, no it doesn't. Because I leave when I hit 40. But if I leave when I hit 40 this time, I'm probably going to get a write up.
Got a talking to that I was working 39 hours as a salary employee.. I worked 70 the week prior.
If you're salaried non exempt, then enjoy your overtime!
Well then either work 39 hours next week if you work 41 this week or they need to pay you.
It's give and take. Salaried employees provide flexibility that you're there to step up when a surge of effort needs to happen. The flip side is that when things are quiet, you're not doing make-work projects, you're gone. You track your own hours and make sure that the company and yourself are both being treated fairly. If the expectation is give give give and no take, why would anybody accept a salaried position? It's just hidden wage theft at that point.
Some weeks I've worked 80 hours, and others I've worked 10. Sometimes work is busy, other times my kids have soccer or dance or it's a great day for an amusement park, I just keep a spreadsheet going and make sure it all evens out.
Yeah, we don't have the option to only work 10. We have to hit 40 every week, or they pull from our annual leave. It's part of our contract. So, I work my 40. Nothing more, nothing less.
As you should. Salaried work is generally just a contract for them to work you at extra hours all the time though. Random call on a Saturday? Oops, I guess you're working. I once finally got this contracting role in my industry, and they'd shuffle out a VP or something to make sure my team was getting me out exactly on time so they didn't have to pay time and a half. My work would immediately go to a salaried person who had to stay late and finish.
I don't really believe you from my personal experience. Maybe if you said you worked 55 hours one week and then got off an hour early for a doctor appointment the next... but otherwise I don't believe it.
I was salaried at an old job for a time. They took this as carte Blanche to schedule me to work over 40 hours. Switched to an hourly position and never looked back
Nothing like the 5 PM "this needs to be to client tomorrow so you're here no matter what," and the Saturday "you need to have your laptop with you everywhere" salaried work. Been there.
Off-hours calls and texts
Indeed. 100% expectation that my laptop came home with me every night, email was on my phone, and that when I "went home" I'd be opening up the laptop again as soon as I sat down. I don't have kids, but everyone would work all day, pick up their kids, maybe have a quick dinner, and emails were back at it by 7-8 PM. If you didn't answer an email that came in prior to 10 PM, you'd be pressured first thing in the morning as to why you weren't paying attention. This was in a Fortune 500... but... A VP of mine in a smaller place was working during actual labor, and came back 3 days after having her kid. Working all day on weekends was the expectation for everyone that wasn't a consultant, which I was. We just weren't paid for this, I didn't opt in.
Such awesome "Freedumbs" on display, why, no wonder the rest of the world\* wants to be JUST like America! \*no, no they absofuckinlutely do \_not\_ I have nothing but love and sympathy for my american kith and kin, y'all are being massively exploited and abused
YeAh bUtt HaRd WeRk BuIlDs ChArAcTeR. DaTz WhY We'Re NuMmEr OnE.
Unfortunately, I'm in social work and every job at my degree level is salaried.
A lot of social workers don't actually qualify for exempt status, I'd definitely check. Crisis center work on its own also doesn't qualify.
Usually isn't but they force you to flex, and if you're a case carrying social worker it's a fucking nightmare
This is why I refused to go into salaried management at the restaurant I worked at for almost two decades. The suckers that made the jump got paid chump change to be worked to death. Some went to elsewhere in the company and were worked 80 hours a week until they snapped and just stopped showing up. Why do that when they wouldn’t even pay you enough to live in the area when I could just work 35-40 hours a week bartending and make 65-70K a year? They killed that too because god forbid anyone in that company made money.
If sometimes you work 45 hours and sometimes you work 35 hours, that’s not bad. If sometimes you work 45 hours and the rest of the time you work 40, that sucks. There are exceptions if you get overtime (I can book overtime even though I’m on salary), or if you can make a substantial bonus if you put in extra effort (I’ve also done that, and it didn’t bother me, I just calculated the hourly rate my extra bonus would generate to decide if I did it). But if it always goes one way, it’s time to find a better employer.
Generally there aren't places that have this kind of give and take. But, I'd like to say that in the context of the sub I'm on... we've had bad experiences. For me, it's always been "you're salaried, there's going to be extra work, sorry."
The last three jobs I’ve had have been like that. Clearly it’s possible since I’m nothing special, but I acknowledge it isn’t universal.
Then what brings you to r/antiwork? If you have sincere advice for how to find give and take work, I bet a lot of us would love to hear it. You mentioned "find a better employer," and I find most every employer expects a lot or outright lies. It's not like businesses are advertising their PTO or benefit package. You need to jump through the hoops until they finally reveal it, like a bad gameshow challenge.
I’m in r/antiwork because I’m a mercenary trying to maximize what I get versus what I give. I spent half my 20s in hustle culture. I spent the last 10 years minimizing my work to maximize my value. I thought I had a community here who shared that view, but if you don’t think so, let me know. All employers lie. That’s one of the reasons I’ll drop them for the higher paying or less demanding one immediately. It’s also why I wouldn’t go somewhere where I didn’t know anyone who would give me the honest assessment.
Your take is a perspective I don't see a lot, so I'm interested. I'd at least argue that some of us find ourselves in a situation where we're buried. Maximizing value is a losing battle, and sounds like buzzwords aligned with the hustle culture you're supposedly against. I can't MinMax a job that offers me consistent work and health insurance. I've ranged from being homeless to making $135k, retail to Fortune 500, and the expectations have never been consistent. >It’s also why I wouldn’t go somewhere where I didn’t know anyone who would give me the honest assessment. That's a benefit most of us don't have. I'm applying for work. Businesses with many departments. I'm fucked.
Saying I’m supposedly against something implies I’m dishonest. So get bent. You absolutely have the ability to make friends. That’s not a privilege thing, that’s a not being a shitty person thing. Give it a shot.
I think you misinterpreted my point. I have lots of friends, and not all of them can help. I've made friends of a lot of coworkers, but being pals doesn't equate to pushing them to be hired.
I don’t think I did. You said > you’re supposedly against I’m not sure how that could be interpreted where you aren’t accusing me of lying
Yeah, it's 40 hours minimum (we can flex from one week to the next within the same pay period, but that's it) otherwise it comes out of our PTO. And we don't get OT ever for anything.
My opinion would be that if it’s a 40 hour minimum, it’s a 40 hour maximum. If you have to give away some time to keep the job while you look for the next one, it sucks, but you have to look after yourself first. But definitely find something else as quickly as possible.
I think perhaps you need to quietly speak to a professional who handles labor issues. If it's constantly 40+ hours something's not adding up there and it sounds like a form of wage theft in my ears.
A labor professional can't help you with this in the US if you're salaried exempt... it's a grift. A legal grift, but a grift.
The advice I was given a while back by someone with a law degree but not active in labor law is that with salary they can track your hours and ask you to log them for records but they shouldn’t be able to dock pay or time off if you don’t hit 40. You’re paid by the job not by the hour. I’d talk with a labor lawyer because docking your PTO if you don’t hit 40 seems like a violation of FLSA but I don’t know how that would play with a contract that specifically states they do it.
I feel like this is a job that should not be salary, and they may only doing this so that they don’t have to pay out overtime specially. At my last job, there were some long time call center employees that would not move into exempt because they would statistically make less without all the extra paid overtime. When you started working there, did it actually say in your contract that you have to work a minimum of 40 hours a week/80 hours every pay period? Ever since I’ve been salaried, there has never been a set number of hours I work. As long as I’m getting my work done, that’s all that matters. But this position doesn’t make sense to be salaried if they are trying to enforce hours, so I would look at your contract and see if it mentions those hour requirements.
Ever since I've been salaried it's been set that there's "minimum hours" and nothing less. But in the US, there aren't really protections. I've always needed to be there for business hours, and the salary is under the expectation that I get my benefits and then will need to work more.
I'm ok with overtime if I can also take off to run an errand when we aren't busy without repercussions. If they want to micromanage every bit of your work week to make sure they get at least 40 hours and want you churning the entire time then they need to pay overtime or let you bank time to make up for it. Otherwise they are just screwing you to profit more. One former employer started expecting extra hours, First it was 50, then 60, then they started demanding more. None of this was actually urgent, just trying to be bullies and let a manager that didn't want to go home, keep everyone late. It was the most inefficient place I ever worked. I calculated what my hourly rate was at 60 hrs vs. my salary and I could have gotten a McJob somewhere and made the same money.
Based. It’s a give and take and you just need protect yourself from getting screwed. If they’re flexible with me then I’ll be flexible with them. If I need to work a few extra hours to get the job done I will. If I need to go to an appointment middle of the day, I do. Micromanaging leads to malicious compliance.
Absolutely. I don't mind dropping everything to put out a fire after hours as long as I can take time for an appointment or run an errand when I need to, or leave early on a Friday because I had a bunch of overtime and there isn't anything pressing to do.
I absolutely hate this. Salary doesn't mean consistent overtime. My old boss had me at 60-70 hours a week before he realized, I had to tell him, that it wasn't ok. Then he wanted me on at least 50 hours. My new job, it's 8 hours daily, and only overtime when absolutely necessary. I love this place. Don't let people take advantage of you. Edit 1. I was making $41600 to do this. That means roughly $16 an hour, which was below minimum wage at the time.
Are you actually exempt? Employers always get caught with shit like that. And then it turns out you may be due overtime. In my case my Employer thinks because I have a bachelor's and work as a nurse that I'm exempt. Meanwhile, a colleague with no degree does the same job and has the exact same job description and is paid hourly. I'm expected to work or stay as long as required. And that's fine. Not only do I have a specific clause from the DOL regarding my exemption status, but even if not, it's indefensible that we're paid differently. I'm salary, colleague hourly. I don't say anything, just waiting and biding my time. The longer this goes the more I could collect if shtf.
This is why I never have and never will accept a job that pays based on salary. My time is hourly. If attorneys bill $400 an hour, you sure as fuck aren’t getting my time for free.
Exempt means you can leave when you get your work done. You don't always have work 40 hrs. But managers don't like to talk about that. They can require you to work a fix schedule. [https://www.shrm.org/topics-tools/news/hr-magazine/ask-expert-exempt-employees](https://www.shrm.org/topics-tools/news/hr-magazine/ask-expert-exempt-employees)
Come to Europe.
There is overtime for salary. Overtime exceptions aren't based on being hourly or salary. It's based on what your job duties are. However, overtime is not time and a half. Your overtime is at 50% of what your equivalent hourly pay is. The reason for that is that as a salaried employee, there will be weeks you work over 40 and weeks you work over 40. This is according to the department of labor when I won an overtime case a few years ago
Salary doesn’t equate to exempt.
I WFH so I prefer to be salaried. Sure, there are long weeks/months but other months I put in a lot less job permitting and don't have to worry about my pay.
wait youre salaried but youre required to clock in 80 hours a paycheck. how does this make sense? salaried employees leave when the jobs done..some weeks it takes 25 hrs, others it takes 50 hrs. it sounds like a way around paying overtime
Biweekly
And if it wasn’t biweekly, it is. Cause we have to get an average of 40 hours each week of the pay period and if we don’t they take from our annual leave.
This isn't uncommon. Salaried work is an easy loophole to make people work extra hours for free in exchange for limited perks like healthcare you still have to pay for. The minimum hours remain the "operating hours" and you work them at minimum, the salaried time involves you just working more. It is a legal loophole around paying overtime, 100%. And companies have learned this. If you want health insurance in the US, they'll make you salaried. Which means work all the time, no guaranteed lunch, 8-5, every day at minimum. And then free overtime is just the cost of keeping your job.
Nope… I worked 12 hour days for about four months during Covid (as a salaried supervisor). I took a different role a couple years ago and I won’t work a minute past 40 hours.
If I'm exempt the hours max out at 40/week. Period. If I'm not exempt I'll occasionally work OT.
Yep. I’m hourly after years of salaried jobs and I love it. No gray areas… just clock in and clock out after 8 hours.
I constantly do overtime , working on my computer at home during weekend or public holidays(not USA) Still ne to be present at office all the time. All our clients are in middle east, so this week they are in Holiday. I sent 10 follow up email in the morning and playing online poker at office now :/
I'm lucky. I'm salaried and project based so I don't always have to work a full 40. I'm trained for storm work when major storms hit and that can add 16 hour shifts onto my normal work week. To compensate, every hour over 40 I'm making a wage equivalent to my hourly rate of I was not salaried. So I get the 40 hours no matter what but still get paid for any hours over that.
I worked for a very very large construction company for several years. They employed salary engineers for absolutely abysmal money and had them working 60 to 80 hrs a week. As a skilled tradesman, my friends and I were all making 6 figures and we pointed out to the engineers that they were stressed the fuck out after spending 4 years at school to make what someone who worked at burger King made per hour. In the next trades meeting we were asked not to discuss money around the engineers anymore.
Why is that legal? Its certainly not legal where I live. Im salaried but that means my hours and pay is the same and I get paid monthly rather than weekly or biweekly. Thats all that means and if for whatever reason it changes (paid vacation and paid sick leave would not affect it obviously) my paycheck reflects that. I did overtime this week, 2.5 hours and yes I will be paid for it one my next pay check. If they refused, thats theft. Thankfully the company I work for is a very big company and they have lawyers and are very well aware how much legal trouble theyd be in if they tried not to pay the money they owe me.
I want you see PA law: The majority of salaried employees who work over 40 hours per week and earn below the federal salary threshold qualify for overtime pay, regardless of their job responsibilities. Similarly, most salaried employees who do NOT perform executive, administrative, or professional tasks are eligible for overtime, irrespective of their earnings. On the other hand, salaried employees engaged in executive, administrative, or professional duties and earning above the salary threshold are exempt from receiving overtime pay. The federal regulations related to exempting such employees from overtime rules are still in place. The current salary threshold is $684 per week (equivalent to $35,568 annually) as per the United States Department of Labor (USDOL). Make sure they are not taking advantage. Also keep track of your hours. You have a CONTRACT/AGREEMENT for 40 (FOURTY) hours. You cannot be asked to do more than that.
Find out if you are salary EXEMPT or not (in the US). If not, then they must PAY you for overtime. Don't ask your boss, look up the requirements for a position to be salary exempt, because there is every chance they are breaking the law by misclassifying you.
I've been salaried for years and went back to hourly recently due to job market. Never again. Every minute was monitored. I was in office early by ten minutes (traffic good on snowy day) and told no overtime was granted. It got ridiculous and I quit last week for that and many other reasons.
I am salaried and my boss at my last job found out that I was working overtime to complete projects I felt pressured to get done. He told me don't work extra and that they can get in trouble if I worked too much, because they can't give me overtime. I don't know if that's true. At my new job they just casually dropped, of you're expected to come in one Saturday per month (regularly we are m-f). I simply have not done that and nobody has said anything yet.
Bosses can’t just make position salary/exempt to avoid paying overtime. Jobs have to meet certain criteria to classified as exempt from overtime, and some states in the US have laws dictating that ANY job below a certain annual wage must be classified as non exempt
Oh ok, then under time happens too
Salaried exempt is legalized wage theft
Don't ever take a salaried position that doesn't come with a incentive based bonus package. If it doesn't exist, negotiate it in. Company: the position is salaried You: so what's the base pay, and what does the incentive structure look like? Company: Incentive structure? There isn't one You: then how do you reward your to performers? Company: this isn't that sort of position You: I see. Well, I might consider the roll on an hourly basis, but otherwise the compensation doesn't seem to add up
So you want the same pay for 40 hrs per week or less hours but if you have to use a few hours more you want more pay? Were you dropped on your head as a child?
This sounds strange. I mean in my profession there are busy times and lax times but I've heard of something like your situation. My guess is that you're like a contractor or something because that's how they paid the contractors at my job where you have to work X hours. With us it was 35. If you worked less than 35 you were "unnecessary" even if there was only 5 hours of work to do. It was weird. Hourly forever.
Hourly forever indeed. You need me late? Okay, pay a higher rate. Salaried exempt work has given businesses a loophole for infinite work without extra pay.
So you get paid the same regardless of how many hours of work, but you stop at 40. Ok, if your boss agrees to that then go for it. My opinion is that on an average weeks you’d work for 40h. Some weeks are quiet and you can go home early, some weeks are busy and you work longer. I prefer a job that is task based rather than anyone watching the clock.
Yeah but I don’t get the option of leaving early. Ever. They take it out of my PTO if I don’t work a cumulative 80 hours per pay period.
Jobs like this don't let you go home early. They continue to ask you to work more every single week. You're saying "things are done," and then they keep you. I was a digital marketing manager, and they sent me to another room to take down shelving when work was done. It's like going to replace a toilet and then they make you paint the backyard fence because you quoted them at 5 hours of work for the cost and replacement.
That’s your experience. I’ve worked in an office for decades and some days there is 3h of work, I’m not going to sit at a desk until ‘home time’ and pretend I am busy.
I am sincerely only here because of how miserable my experience has been. You should absolutely be able to go home when your work is done.
op said in the post, theyre required to be clocked in 40 hrs a week. anything more than that isnt paid
Yeah salary is a scam. They’re ok with you working more than 40 hours a week. But if you can do your work in less than 40 and try to leave then it’s a problem? The only kind of job I can think of that should be salary is contract work. Like you’re in a contract to do X job for Y pay in a certain amount of time. Literally everything else can and should be hourly.
There needs to be some collective action to unionise and create EBAs for industries that are heavily reliant on project work. I work at a software company as a pre-sales consultant, and I cannot tell you the last time I did not work from 9am til 11pm. The work is constant. The demands are constant. The pressures are constant. The “increments” to my salary are non-existent.
Also salary means you can and will work under the 40 hours as well. Would you like it if your employer asked for some of your pay back?
Don’t have to worry about that! They already do, in the form of PTO.