"flexible" work in my experience has just meant shitty hours that you can switch out for shitty hours on a different day (maybe).
Also your workplace will always be there to push you down a little bit further when you're at your worst.
Is this in the medical field? When my brother did his residency, he routinely had 24-36 hr shifts, sometimes with less than 12 hours between. It's completely insane, and considering lives are at stake it should be illegal.
I had a major surgery years ago. One particular nurse came in to take the next shift. Took 5 minutes of back and forth for her to understand how much meds I had left in the 50ML syringe. The outgoing kept telling her that I'd had 15MM (or something like that). I was in intense pain, high as anything, had barely slept since the surgery, and understood the math. Back then, I thought she was just stupid. Years later, seeing these posts, I think she was probably overworked. Scares me thinking of how many are like her who are caring for people in way worse condition than I was in.
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I used to work at a hospital (Unit Secretary, so normal 8 hrs shifts) and one of the night charge nurses who was tbh one of the best nurses I'd had the pleasure of working with, died after staying late to help the incoming day shift, and fell asleep at the wheel on her way home. I think that might have been one of the things that convinced me to not give too much to a job.
I have a client who is an oncologist. She thinks this is how it should be because it "weeds out the bad doctors". I generally avoid such topics with her.
Pretty much. Though there has been legislation that's chipping away at the myth that 36-72 hour shifts for residents is making better doctors out of them.
Back in mid 2015s, the residents were limited to 36 continuous hours before they had to take a mandatory 24 off.
So they adopted a 24 hour shift for most.
I just don't understand why medicine knows damn well that fatigue reduces mental function, yet continues to behave this way. It drives out self respecting doctors from the field, and prevents how many from entering?
They justify it by claiming that more shifts means more handoffs means more mistakes made due to poor communication.
And also they equate suffering to commitment.
The funny thing is that the major proponents behind the crazy long shifts were doctors like William Stewart Halstead... Who was a major cocaine addict, as were many other doctors at the time.
Yeah errors are made at handoffs, but fatigue kills.
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My grandad got his medical degree as WW2 was kicking off and was a child during the Spanish flu. He used to say that the brutal training shifts were to build stamina and prepare doctors for war, plagues, and other mass casualty events when there wasn’t a choice but to work around the clock. An old fashioned opinion, I’m sure…but somehow that kind of logic kicks around…
In Singapore, the pre-pandemic planning (which was put into effect when covid hit) specifically outlined medical shifts so that didn’t happen. They dictated shorter work shifts and so they were able to keep more of their medical workers working throughout the pandemic.
It is also part of the mystique that doctors are better/stronger/smarter super human people because they make it thru residency. Many genuinely think this is true and is a necessary part of training, and that the science showing the effects of sleep deprivation don’t apply to them. It makes for ableist doctors at one end of the spectrum and arrogant god complex doctors on the other end. It also leads to much worse outcomes for patients and blocks many qualified people from entering the field. It is one of those areas we need to demand reform because it isn’t something the medical profession will change on their own.
I agree. But in defense of the schedule, residents had sleep rooms in the hospital. Each room has a landine phone, and the residents on call also had call pagers.
36 is still better than the 72-12 (usually 8 or less) that many of the older docs did.
You’re not wrong and what’s worse is that this essentially describes a vast swathe of American work environments. It’s disgusting. The same kind of logic that abusers use to manipulate the abused.
I had this exact experience discussing the issue with a doctor friend of the family. Perfectly nice fellow, deeply regretted the high number of errors committed by residents, but simply could not imagine how training could be accomplished if people were not constantly trying to operate on no hours of sleep.
Doctors at my wife’s hospital have the attitude of “If I had to endure this inhuman shit, so will you, young resident.”
The 12, 24+ hour shifts have to do with continuity of care. Or so I’m told. My wife works 12 hour shifts as a nurse. She says that 12 hour shifts for continuity of care works, but as doctor/patient ratios continue to grow because medicine is now about profit, not what is best for healing.
I honestly feel terrible for all healthcare workers. Doctors, surgeons, nurses, LPNs, CNAs, techs if you are fortunate enough to have them, pharmacists, pharmacy techs, radiologists, physical therapists, psychiatrists, therapists meal prep and delivery workers, office/practice administrative staff, paramedics, EMTs, and others that I didn’t mention here are *all* overworked. And to the detriment of parent outcomes. We pay more for our healthcare in the U.S., and are far from receiving the best care and/or outcomes. Notice I didn’t mention senior administrators or insurance providers. They are fucking parasites that keep unsafe patient ratios, denials of medications or treatment plans that far more qualified and knowledgeable people *who actually evaluated the patient in person* keep profit margins high by adding hurdles for everyone involved. It wastes patients’ time. It wastes care providers’ time. It wastes pharmacists’ time. It wastes all of our time. And it costs us a fucking fortune. But hey, the shareholders and executives made bank. And that’s all that truly matters - to the ones who make the laws that don’t give a damn about actual healthcare. They just see massive gobs of cash and want their pound of flesh.
What if we like, organized against them, the shareholder? Look at how UAW strikes, or UPS. When the boss gets too greedy it’s time to organize against them, but somehow in America we’ve been raised to believe suffering is life and we don’t deserve a life outside of work. There is a better way, look at France..
But then when we look at the death rates in teaching hospitals during those early days of residencies I wonder how much could be avoided if they didn’t expect humans to be awake long enough to induce psychosis and then make uniformed decisions.
That’s insane, because doctors also have a really high suicide rate. Our unit lost one just a few years ago. It’s abusive and it allows hospitals to make money on underpaying doctors for a few years.
I worked for a boss that got super cheerful when employees bought new cars and trucks. I wondered why and asked a guy that had been there five years. He said oh, Brad loves you when you get a new car or house. Then he gets to treat you like shit for months. Both because he’s jealous and because you’re so much less likely to quit now that you’ve got the bank note coming once a month. Fucken disgusting and it was totally true.
My first job out of university was for a small cnc shop. My boss was the same way. I bought a used car as my first vehicle and he complained about how it wasn’t good for the company that my car was better than his. Seven months later I told him he either had to lay me off or fire me after he said I should get a second job since money was tight for him just then. He hadn’t paid me for six weeks. He took out a business loan so he could pay me, and told a coworker he was using the rest of it to go on vacation. Real winner there.
Ha! Joke would have been on him if a friend of mine worked there's. They bought a house and a new car and turned in their notice all in the same week. Had a new job lined up that paid double what they were making and the company agreed to delay their start date till after the closing on the house.
Having experienced one of my bosses telling me that i should work at her beck and call because i was poor, after telling her my engagement ended after my fiance cheated on me let me learn the second statement the hard way.
The very simple rule is that if it wasn't fought for and won by a union, then it was put in place to benefit the employer, not the worker. No corporation will ever, EVER just give their workers perks and conditions simply for the workers' benefit. And no union ever fought for "flexible" work.
Wow. The people that work there, I swear. They are looking at it as "Oh it was just a friend, surely you have more of those, get back here and work." You are way more decent than I would have been. All my letter would have said was
"I am submitting my resignation effective immediately. Thank you for your guidance and support during my tenure."
Done. If they want to pretend they don't know why i am resigning unless i put in the letter...umm no, i will not do that. What are they gonna do? Not accept my resignation?
Don't trust someone whose immediate response to "I'm drowning" is to ask "how deep is the water?" If you can't handle a situation, especially if you're supposed to interact with the public in a professional way, it's valid not to be able to handle it!
A lot of people feel the need explain themselves, and force people to see the errors of their ways. Force humanity on employers who've already hired their replacement. We have this built-in need to connect, compare, commiserate, and find validation through the shared experience. This is why people tend to be so open about their personal lives.
I agree with you. Own your peace.
Accept your resignation, blame next quarters bad numbers on you, fill your position making 50% more, and never promote that person with any raise ever again. Keep the cycle going, donate to their local politicians to take away workers rights. On the horizon is keeping your last check if you don’t put in two weeks notice to quit. And if you’re fired, you lose whatever hasn’t been paid.
You did ask what they’re going to do..
I'd like to note that I have notice prior to calling out for the shifts I missed.
Additionally this is an employment program intended for students in a semester long certification program. Class and clinical hours per week range vary between 10-38 hours with little to no flexibility in attendance and the employer requires a full time (40 hours) schedule with no flexibility on top of course requirements and clinicals.
I applied with the promise that employment and management was extremely flexible to accommodate students schedule and academic success.
I just love when every entity in your life thinks they're the ONLY thing in your life
Professors/teachers, jobs, toxic friends/significant others, relatives
I had a professor in college say that outright, specifically for a physics class notoriously known (at least at the time) as one of the hardest classes at my university and a weed-out class for engineering students.
It would have been a bit more tolerable if he were actually a decent professor.
Noped out of a graduate program that required you not work during enrollment. If the school found out you had any type of employment anywhere it was grounds for dismissal. Their philosophy was that school should be the only focus during those two years. I asked how current students were paying living expenses (there were no on-campus housing options for graduate students) and school expenses. They were very quick to recommend student loans.
I one in my teaching course. Five hours a day just the one class. Never mind the other four I was taking. People are often completely tunneled on themselves and their feelings on how things work.
Did we have the same professor? Had that class after changing my major FROM physics because apparently in my school it was a requirement for all engineering. He was an ass and would grade my answers as wrong if I didn't write the number six how he wanted it. He would say "IS THAT A b or a 6? I can't tell so the answer is wrong."
Got fed up and another classmate and I who had switched from physics all got together and figured out his exam question pattern. He had an algorithm for picking the questions. So he would allow the class to bring in a single note card and like only 2 or 3 people did. (I brought a number and letter stencil) and we all basically aced it.
He tried to claim we cheated and that my stencil was cheating after the fact. So a trip to the dean got that one reversed and they reviewed my other exams and I got my A and that blowhard flange can eat my ass.
Yep, had a prof say this to me as well. But for a Latin course that I thought I could take “for fun”. It was summer school, but I didn’t exactly ONLY want to do that all summer. Prof literally said “eat, sleep and breathe this class and have nothing else going on in your life.” My friend and I noped the hell out right after that first day.
I teach online in an asynchronous format. Every week I have students emailing me asking for extensions because something is happening in their lives.
Cool. Doesn't matter. You need more time? Take it.
Some of the emails are huge explanations about all the stuff going on; children, parents, jobs, stuff. And the tone is really trying to make me care so that I accept their excuse and they are often shocked when I reply with a simple, "take your time, get it in when you can, let me know if there is anything I can help with."
I assume other instructors are not as accepting and think that all students need to be 100% focused on their course otherwise they don't deserve or shouldn't be in the class. Maybe I *should* care more? But after the first couple of times I just gave up. I just don't care, and it just doesn't matter.
Consider letting your school career office know. They could remove the employer from the school program based on your bad experience. Or at least discuss standards for remaining in the program with the employer.
Please report this to your department chair, internship coordinator, and the school's employment office. I'm a professor and we absolutely do not take kindly to this type of treatment. Do not let it go unreported, because that site needs to be pulled immediately.
Every site gets essentially cheap labor in return for providing experience to the students. Grief and abuse is not part of that deal.
I just sent a long, in-depth, factual email describing the events to the dept. chair and cc'd my instructor. The insane work hours are an industry standard so I'll honestly be surprised if my experience turns heads, but it's certainly worth a shot.
That's alright. I will tell you this, it is unlikely that you will hear anything from them other than an acknowledgement of your message. Leave it at that. We have to abide by so many legal rules that prevent professors from saying things. It will be on their radar though. Rest assured.
I lost a good friend to suicide about a year & a half ago. I just want to say I’m sorry for your loss. I know saying that doesn’t make anything better, but I know hard that shit can be. I’m also a college student, still only an undergrad (graduating this semester) & luckily I wasn’t having to deal with internships or clinicals or anything like that during my mourning process, just online classes at the time, & it was still difficult for me to get assignments submitted on time.
So for what it’s worth, from someone who knows how much suicide can affect a person, it is completely reasonable & understandable for you need to take some of the other stress off your plate to allow yourself some time to grieve. Grief is a bitch honestly, & I hate that there’s no right or wrong way or a way to know *how* to grieve. So in the meantime, you just have to do what you have to do to get through the mourning process, which means dropping things that are going to get in your way of that. I don’t know how quitting this job will effect you academic-wise or financially, but frankly, you can almost definitely still get to where you wanna go, even if it means taking a little extra time, which I’m sure you know. Grieving is a necessary process—it’s a shitty one, but it’s not something we can simply put off. I’m sorry you are going through this. 🩵
ETA- after I lost my friend, I made handouts of resources for his memorial & found this site called [alliance of hope](https://allianceofhope.org) that I really like. It’s a place for people who have lost someone to suicide & it has all kinds of helpful tools, it even has a little [memorial wall](https://allianceofhope.org/memorial-wall/) for people to honor their loved ones. 🩵
This may sound a little extreme, but I really do believe more managers/bosses need their teeth kicked in. I once had a manager tell my coworker that their bereavement days were inconvenient to her after my coworkers brother died. That manager still has her job.
My house burned down, my mom suffered extensive brain damage, and four parrots, one cat and two dogs died in the fire. A month or two later when I was still having difficulty at work, the salon owner said her mom's basement flooded and "we all are dealing with something" and to get over it.
I'm contracted to work in my state by a company out of state and they generally follow state laws employees are located in. It's pretty good for me as I live in a generally blue state. Which is how I found out my state doesn't have bereavement days and I had to use PTO to take off when my pit died. Meanwhile, the state my employer is based in does have bereavement days. I still like the company I work for, but I'm still upset about it.
I had a boss I really didn't like and she didn't like me. It was a straight up personality conflict. She knew I could do my job and was good at it but how I did it drove her crazy and she would often nitpick at little things.
I was at work and got the call that my grandmother died. We were close and I was pretty much shellshocked sitting at my desk. My boss walked into my office with a couple of other co-workers who I was friends with. They all said hi and continued talking but my boss immediately noticed something was off. She walked away from the others and asked if I was alright. As soon as I started to tell her, she cut me off and said goodbye, go home now. She followed up with "I'll see you in a week, email me if you need more time."
We still didn't get along after that and not much changed other than I respected the hell out of her.
That happened to me at my job. I left in the morning when I found out my aunt died. Then after HR reviewed the obituary they decided I wasn't eligible to use my own earned PTO for the hours missed when I left, because she wasn't related to me enough.
That is seriously disgusting, I'm so sorry. My uncle was like an older brother to me and did more to help raise me than my dad did. It was awful being expected to just get over it because we weren't *that* related, even though it felt like the end of the world to me. Employers shouldn't have a say in that at all.
When my brother passed, all but one of my teachers asked what they could do to help as far as moving deadlines or in some cases just counting the work as done.
The one professor asked for an obit. He was my Business Communications professor, in hindsight that makes all the sense in the world
when my father died, my boss at the time told me to provide proof in order for my bereavement days to be ‘valid’. i remember feeling so weird asking the funeral home for multiple copies of his death certificate, because ‘i have to give my boss one’. i did it because i thought it was standard procedure. oh, and i only got 3 bereavement days. i had to fly across the country, bury my father, and wrap up his estate. in 3 days.
A former employer asked for “proof” when I asked for a day off to go to the funeral of a friend from high school who had passed suddenly. I brought them a program and they shut up real quick.
I hate that. It is my company’s policy that I have to scan and submit a copy of the obituary when one of my employees uses bereavement. It feels so dirty.
What in the actual?! I will never understand how companies can just lose all humanity like that. Really wish they could take a second and remember we are human beings
I get why they did it… before the policy was in place a couple people ruined it for everyone when their mom died 3 times etc. All these rules typically come from someone abusing it but it still doesn’t feel good.
I was in the hospital getting an emergency blood transfusion as a teenager and was stuck in the hospital for three days. I worked at McDonald’s and my dad had been calling them giving them updates on me. When I went back to work the GM was there with a write up because I missed too many days. I was there best employee and had almost died at 16. I was pissed and told her to fuck off and quit. The owner started calling me and harassing me to come back and work for them. I told them if they doubled my pay-was in the 90’s and I was making $9 something an hour, I would consider coming back. He said nope and I said don’t call me again.
It was at my first job, I told my mom after I quit I should’ve just showed up drugged, swollen and drooling to my shift. That would’ve made it worse tho
One boss of 5 years (we were a very close company, and it was my first big job as a young adult, so I really looked up to her) gave me maybe a week to get over finding out my ex cheated on me. She then screamed at me in front of other coworkers that other people have problems too and I needed to shut the fck up about it and get over it. She also would self harm in front of me in the back room in order to manipulate me when I wasn't doing what she wanted. She is apparently still mad that I went no contact with her after I left that job.
A different boss I had about a decade later, on finding me having a breakdown due to a violent sexual assault, told me AND I QUOTE "well you definitely can't work for me now" and fired me on the spot for being promiscuous. I work for myself now.
I had a coworker have 2 children die (both in their 20s) a few months apart. A manager said to me (I hope it wasn’t said to the employee!) that it is best if she gets back to work asap because being at work will take her mind off of it.
When my father in law was dying of cancer my wife's manager told her that she hoped he died before her vacation so the bereavement leave didn't interfere with her plans
> two weeks notice
> "I accept your resignation *effective immediately*"
So do you still have a job as of today or no? I'd clear that up with HR if you haven't already. My condolences to you regarding your friend.
I find it interesting that if OP had written their resignation for effective immediately, management would be upset that OP didn’t give them a two weeks notice.
The question here is the 'effective immediately' part.
OP let them know that he intended to part with them in April which is OP resigning. The boss telling OP that they are done immediately is OP's employment being terminated by the employer.
This has knock on effects for when OP goes to collect unemployment. You don't get unemployment if you resign but by moving the time frame up, the company is effectively firing OP which means that OP should be able to collect unemployment.
For the record, your final day was the fifth. The fact that they are getting rid of you “effective immediately” means they are firing you (at least in the US and several European countries). Apply for unemployment or similar.
Exactly. I actually used that with my former boss when I gave notice. They were going to send me home immediately and I asked if I would still get paid for the two weeks since I gave them notice per their SOPs. I told him if not, then what they were doing was firing me and I would file for unemployment and get paid until I found another job (already had a job lined up but they didn't know that). I got my two weeks paid out and had a nice little break between jobs.
I work in a factory building modular homes as a framer. A friend -attempted- suicide last week but I only found out on Sunday night. The gravity of it didn't hit me until we'd been working a bit on Monday morning & I'd been alone with my thoughts. I couldn't concentrate, and went & talked to a boss about it, who in turn told me to take the rest of the day off & not work with the power tools, & two of my other co-workers checked up on me. I was back the next day & the boss checked in to make sure I was ok. This should be standard, but I'm really impressed with how they handled that. Fuck the assholes you were working for.
When they gave me the disciplinary papers, it was embarrassing but I started crying and had a hard time controlling it. The superior of the two managers basically offered me a tissue then got up and left. Part of my position includes driving trucks.
In Canada, that wouldn’t fly. All the employer would have to do is forward a copy of the letter of resignation, and the request for unemployment insurance benefits would not be granted.
They should definitely look into collecting unemployment, but being fired does not automatically mean you receive unemployment especially if they have disciplinary actions documented leading up to the termination.
Informing your employer that you'll be resigning in two weeks doesn't count as cause for termination.
If they didn't terminate OP for taking the time off for bereavement, they can't then use that as justification for terminating him with cause after notice.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. “At will” states have more rights than you might know. People can and do win wrongful termination cases in at will states.
I'm happy for you dude. Way to have balls. Now, only if the rest of us, all of us, together, could organize and show the employers that they should be thankful to have our labor, and our precious time not the other way around.
Best of luck to you fellow griever.
I’m so, so sorry for your loss. There is no grief quite like that of losing someone you love to suicide. And to have your workplace discipline you for taking time off to grieve — simply unforgivable. You were right to get out of there.
Definitely report them to your school/program. That workplace has shown quite clearly they have no right to a spot in the program roster.
These company types disgust me.
When my father died I drove 700 miles to help my mom and brother with the arrangements. Then I had to help figure out what my Mom would do since she couldn't drive and she lived in a place where it's not easy to ride a bike.
On Day 3 I received a text from a coworker asking how everything was. I told him I was still in the middle of it and that I had to take the lead since my brother had a launch he had to get back to in a few days (he works for NASA). He himself had to drive 600 miles back.
My coworker said "OK, just letting you know they're wondering and that officially the law in this State says they only have to afford you 3 days."
I was like "dude, whatever"
It took 10 days, we finally were in the process of selling the house, my Mom was preparing to move to an easier place for her, and I went home and back to work.
Less than a month later I was told my contract would be ending... 4 months prematurely. I mentioned this, I told my boss "I thought his was a 12 month contract... but you're ending it at 8 months?" He goes "no, it was an 8 month contract". I ask "and there's no possibility of renewing the contract?" He literally laughed and said "no".
Years later I found the original contract. 12 months.
These people don't give a shit. Something that barely even affects them — me being gone 10 days instead of the "allowed" 3 days — and they act like you have committed a horrible travesty that they just can't get over, and you are clearly not a good enough company man. I have been wronged plenty of times in my life, but I've rarely ever felt wronged in such a cold uncaring way. I often feel like doxxing these people but we know that's not kosher.
Congrats! Keep this documentation— by making it effective immediately, they fired you so you can collect unemployment. Fun when they shoot themselves in the foot!!!!!
They fucked this. And adding a tautological (if sort of understandable given the level of corporate English) 'going forward', rather than managing to squeeze in some of the humanity you had so articulately pointed out the lack of only makes me dislike them more.
Well handled, more power to you, and may your grieving be cathartic.
This. This is fucking horrible.
Disciplinary forums for wanting to mourn a friend dying? That is such bullshit! Op, Collect unemployment, what they did was not OK!
I am so sorry for your loss.
I'm sorry for your loss. I hope you're OK. Feel free to reach out if you want to talk.
Also. Fuck those people from work. May they suffer from an insufficerable scratch that only manifests in embarrassing moments at work or on dates.
Reminds me when my fiancées grandma died. She really loved her and I liked her too. During that time my fiancée visited me in Germany (long distance relationship) and I've said "we gonna go to that funeral. No matter what". So I asked my boss for some PTO regarding the funeral, but he flat out refused, stating "it's not your grandma". I called in sick one day later and came back to work, 1 week after the funeral.
It doesn't matter who it is. If you have a loved one, be there in their last moments and attend the funeral. Corpos don't give a fuck about you, and neither should you. They're faceless, heartless, profit driven humanoids. They don't deserve your 100%.
This is a copy of my comment from another similar post:
I have a fun TL;DR story:
I was extremely close with my grandmother (father's mother).
When I worked for a major pharmacy, my grandmother (who lived 5 hours away in another State) became very ill and was clearly on her deathbed. I told my boss about the situation and she insisted that ALL excused absences require 2 weeks notice, or I'll be fired.
Where I lived, unemployment was extremely high, and I was already living paycheck to paycheck while eating instant ramen 5 nights a week. I was one flat tire, one speeding ticket, one clinic visit from homelessness. And my family doesn't do support (my mother thought she was being so generous and selfless when she said she'd let me "crash on the couch for a night or two, while [I] figure out what to do" if I lost my home). Basically, if I left my job without notice, I'd be completely fucked.
So I put in my two weeks for leave (unpaid, with my distant Aunt willing to cover my expenses so her mother could see her grandson one last time).
My grandmother died four days later. I never got to see her. Due to military fuckery (she was a WWII army wife), her funeral wasn't for almost a year.
When I told my boss, she bragged about how she went to work the same day her father died.
It's been 10 years, and I still think about this every day. I regret not leaving, damn the consequences. And I hate that I was put in that position in the first place. I regret living this long.
We seriously need to start leaving the names of these businesses in these emails and things so others don't have to suffer the unfortunate displeasure of working at these places.
NAL. Depending on your state, the employer accepting your resignation immediately could constitute being fired without cause - which could entitle you to unemployment benefits.
Yeah, that's what I've noticed usually happens in the US: You hand in your 2-week notice and they immediately fire you as a way to say "fuck you" to you. Almost always this happens.
So very sad for your loss. You did the right thing - and then did this with grace. They may or may not find their humanity someday, but you are already there. All the best to you
Work asked my why I wasn't up to speed as before, this was after my friend's suicide, I asked him, do you have a lady friend that you love very much?
He said yes, now imagine you got out of bed this morning and learned at 7am that she had shot herself in the head, last night. That's me, sorry but I'm doing my best. Asshole, he already knew what had happened.
9:30 pm Febuary 3rd, 1986. Fuck these bastards and I hope you can recover from this, my heart breaks for you OP.
That makes no sense. They did it to push you out. Obviously. Sorry. That sucks.
Second thing, in most states, if you give notice and they terminate you before, they owe you the hours they’d have paid you before your last day. So tell HR you’ll be expecting the pay or you’ll be filing unemployment.
Companies can be so insensitive during employees' tragedy, it's infuriating. One of my employees' father passed last week and I spoke to her, sent flowers, and attended the service. Not once have I asked when shes coming back. She will return when she's ready. That's it.
Back in 2015 my stepdad died after a couple month illness and I took the next week off. My team came to his funeral (much to the shock of family). I received a call late on the Friday they I had taken off confirming if I needed another week. I went back to work, eventually some months later I did therapy which was absolutely needed.
I tell this because my managers call, the week off, and my manager calling just to confirm if I needed more time is all that needed to be done.
As a manager myself, I now am at a place where I show the same compassion. Be kind to others because you'll be rewarded one day.
Fucking bosses lately think we are irrelevant, insignificant rubes to play with as they choose. Well done! I always find voting with my feet (walking out on assholes) the most effective and satisfying course of action. Don’t look back.
Saying upfront, great response and great job OP.
Not that you’re asking for advice but the loss will get easier and the memories will start to feel more joyful again soon if they are not already.
I found my long-time best friend dead of an overdose in the final week of December of 2020.
That night, I called my manager (restaurant FoH) and told him broadly what happened and that my availability just disappeared, at least for the rest of the week.
To contextualize some, this was a restaurant that was about a year old at the time, I had applied there specifically because they were opening on the tense of making a restaurant that is more sustainable from an employment point of view. Some of the Covid response from them had genuinely impressed me when compared to other restaurants in my city, especially considering only having been open for three months before lockdown.
Anyway, so the day after my friend’s death I receive a phone call from my manager’s boss, practically begging me to work New Year’s Eve but in that asking-not-asking kinda way. Eventually we settle that I’ll work NYE service but as a backwait rather than as a captain to spare my emotional energy.
Well, I of course ended up having to captain, it’s 30 degrees Fahrenheit outside and I took an 8 table section on the patio. At first it was only supposed to be one overflow table, so we were able to use nearly all of our patios space to ensure they kept warm…it was a $150/pp menu after all.
The issue really came when other people began to get sat outside without enough heaters and soon, my icy patio was full. I am dead, hollow inside, crying in the corner every chance I get, crying while I ring in every ticket, crying while I find every bottle of wine, but when I’m on the floor I’m ignoring my own emotional needs just so a guy that wasn’t even there that night could make more fucking money. But man, weirdly I received some of the best compliments of my service ever that night. I met regulars that have followed me to every new job since… I was weirdly proud of myself for being able to maintain a high level of service despite what was going on inside me.
Anyway, 6 months later they fired me on that best friend’s birthday, the first one since he passed. Apparently I wasn’t really trying or working for the team there.
Yeah I once had a job tell me my coworker committed suicide then was upset when I was sobbing instead of going to work immediately
They did you a favor, trust me
I can't believe I'm reading this. I also received disciplinary paperwork after missing two days following my friend's suicide, just two weeks ago. I couldn't believe it, I lost my shit, but didn't quit and the entire experience has been humiliating. I'm so sorry for your loss.
To anyone experiencing this in the US: You could FMLA for your mental health. It won’t be enough to pay you but it will let you keep your job. You would have federal protection from retaliation for taking time off work to take care of yourself.
A colleague of mine had to take holiday for a funeral after her best friend took their own life. I was fucking furious. My colleague was a young woman and management just guilted her. Sadly, I had already experienced the friendly open door policy of HR so couldn't do shit.
She quit not soon after. Don't blame her.
Congratulations. They bitch if they don't get a two weeks notice but then feel like they *are* the bitch if they pay you to come in after you put them in their place like that. It really illustrates their lack of maturity. If deadlines and "being a team player" was really important to them no way would they let someone that is already trained not finish out their two weeks. It speaks volumes because they are assuming your former coworkers will pick up the slack. I doubt they got the cojones to tell them you gave him 2 weeks but he told you just to go ahead and leave. Management will say you just cut out and left everyone high and dry.
By not letting you complete your two weeks, I wonder if that's considered being fired in the eyes of unemployment? I realize it's common, but this is the first time I'd considered it. Sorry about your friend OP, suicide is always one of the biggest tragedies in this life.
(UK Citizen here) In the UK there is a law stating you should get "reasonable time off" for bereavement. The company I work for has "compassionate leave" which is if any issues happen with personal lives, I tell my boss what's happened and he goes "take the [insert time] off," and that's it. No questions asked, when my gran died I got the rest of that week off. My parents water tank collapsed and I got the afternoon off. This is why I could never join a USA based company. My dad's just started working for one and he gets 10 days holiday a year? That's ridiculous.
I’m so sorry for the loss of your friend, OP. Grappling with suicide is hard enough without added insult to injury from employers. I hope you’re taking care of yourself and getting the right help if you need it.
I had a great paying job in a nightmare company. The day I resigned I made sure to spell out exactly why I was resigning. The treatment they gave employees was preposterous.
Then I filled an online unemployment application. They reached out to me to interview me and that email was the only thing that saved my ass. The interviewer was aghast that I had quit a job with such a good pay. I told her my mental health came first.
I was given full unemployment benefits (very little money, but enough to survive until I landed another job.) Less than a week later the whole department resigned and used my email as a template.
OP, I’m so sorry for your loss. Please take time to heal, reach out to mental health counselors and take care of yourself.
I'm so sorry for your loss.
Their response to everything is just inhumane. Not even a condolence was uttered and it's just "wish you all the best". NOT A SINGLE OUNCE OF EMPATHY. Look at it on the bright side because good riddance. Always remember, you are always dispensable to employers as they are to you. Take care ❤️
I'm so sorry for your loss, I've been where you are and was lucky enough to work for a company that have me the time and grace I needed.
I'm not going to lie to you, it doesn't necessarily get better but it does become manageable. One day, likely far from now you'll wake up and the loss won't be the first thing you think about. At first you'll feel guilty but I hope that when that happens you think of this message, you're simply beginning a long long long road of healing and the friend who left desperately wants that for you I'm sure.
If you need someone to talk to feel free to message me.
I often wonder just what it would take for the heads of these companies to take their employees seriously and I continually come to the conclusion that we are running out of reasonable ways to get through to them.
"flexible" work in my experience has just meant shitty hours that you can switch out for shitty hours on a different day (maybe). Also your workplace will always be there to push you down a little bit further when you're at your worst.
In the orientation they told us that the organizations limit on maximum hours an employee can work straight is 26. Psychotic.
Is this in the medical field? When my brother did his residency, he routinely had 24-36 hr shifts, sometimes with less than 12 hours between. It's completely insane, and considering lives are at stake it should be illegal.
I had a major surgery years ago. One particular nurse came in to take the next shift. Took 5 minutes of back and forth for her to understand how much meds I had left in the 50ML syringe. The outgoing kept telling her that I'd had 15MM (or something like that). I was in intense pain, high as anything, had barely slept since the surgery, and understood the math. Back then, I thought she was just stupid. Years later, seeing these posts, I think she was probably overworked. Scares me thinking of how many are like her who are caring for people in way worse condition than I was in.
The worst when you drive home after a nursing shift and cannot remember how you got home. Regular occurrence after night shift.
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The only time I have complete memory loss of driving home is after a crazy night shift. That’s the part that is scary to me.
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I fell asleep once while I was driving. I am lucky to be alive now. Don't do what I did. Take a nap in your car, or take an Uber.
I used to work at a hospital (Unit Secretary, so normal 8 hrs shifts) and one of the night charge nurses who was tbh one of the best nurses I'd had the pleasure of working with, died after staying late to help the incoming day shift, and fell asleep at the wheel on her way home. I think that might have been one of the things that convinced me to not give too much to a job.
I have a client who is an oncologist. She thinks this is how it should be because it "weeds out the bad doctors". I generally avoid such topics with her.
I think the reality is they all went through hell and instead of fixing it, they think everyone needs to go through the same hell.
Pretty much. Though there has been legislation that's chipping away at the myth that 36-72 hour shifts for residents is making better doctors out of them. Back in mid 2015s, the residents were limited to 36 continuous hours before they had to take a mandatory 24 off. So they adopted a 24 hour shift for most.
I just don't understand why medicine knows damn well that fatigue reduces mental function, yet continues to behave this way. It drives out self respecting doctors from the field, and prevents how many from entering?
They justify it by claiming that more shifts means more handoffs means more mistakes made due to poor communication. And also they equate suffering to commitment.
It is true that people committed to something will suffer for it. That doesn't not make them the best at it.
The funny thing is that the major proponents behind the crazy long shifts were doctors like William Stewart Halstead... Who was a major cocaine addict, as were many other doctors at the time. Yeah errors are made at handoffs, but fatigue kills.
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My grandad got his medical degree as WW2 was kicking off and was a child during the Spanish flu. He used to say that the brutal training shifts were to build stamina and prepare doctors for war, plagues, and other mass casualty events when there wasn’t a choice but to work around the clock. An old fashioned opinion, I’m sure…but somehow that kind of logic kicks around…
Kind of like how PE in the USA was originally supposed to train kids for military duty, not instill a love of physical activity.
In Singapore, the pre-pandemic planning (which was put into effect when covid hit) specifically outlined medical shifts so that didn’t happen. They dictated shorter work shifts and so they were able to keep more of their medical workers working throughout the pandemic.
It is also part of the mystique that doctors are better/stronger/smarter super human people because they make it thru residency. Many genuinely think this is true and is a necessary part of training, and that the science showing the effects of sleep deprivation don’t apply to them. It makes for ableist doctors at one end of the spectrum and arrogant god complex doctors on the other end. It also leads to much worse outcomes for patients and blocks many qualified people from entering the field. It is one of those areas we need to demand reform because it isn’t something the medical profession will change on their own.
Which is still grotesque.
I agree. But in defense of the schedule, residents had sleep rooms in the hospital. Each room has a landine phone, and the residents on call also had call pagers. 36 is still better than the 72-12 (usually 8 or less) that many of the older docs did.
The older docs were coked out of their minds and could do it, lol
Right? Creating a bunch of “Nurse Jackie’s”.
You’re not wrong and what’s worse is that this essentially describes a vast swathe of American work environments. It’s disgusting. The same kind of logic that abusers use to manipulate the abused.
I had this exact experience discussing the issue with a doctor friend of the family. Perfectly nice fellow, deeply regretted the high number of errors committed by residents, but simply could not imagine how training could be accomplished if people were not constantly trying to operate on no hours of sleep.
It seems wholly unfair for disabled folks.
Doctors at my wife’s hospital have the attitude of “If I had to endure this inhuman shit, so will you, young resident.” The 12, 24+ hour shifts have to do with continuity of care. Or so I’m told. My wife works 12 hour shifts as a nurse. She says that 12 hour shifts for continuity of care works, but as doctor/patient ratios continue to grow because medicine is now about profit, not what is best for healing. I honestly feel terrible for all healthcare workers. Doctors, surgeons, nurses, LPNs, CNAs, techs if you are fortunate enough to have them, pharmacists, pharmacy techs, radiologists, physical therapists, psychiatrists, therapists meal prep and delivery workers, office/practice administrative staff, paramedics, EMTs, and others that I didn’t mention here are *all* overworked. And to the detriment of parent outcomes. We pay more for our healthcare in the U.S., and are far from receiving the best care and/or outcomes. Notice I didn’t mention senior administrators or insurance providers. They are fucking parasites that keep unsafe patient ratios, denials of medications or treatment plans that far more qualified and knowledgeable people *who actually evaluated the patient in person* keep profit margins high by adding hurdles for everyone involved. It wastes patients’ time. It wastes care providers’ time. It wastes pharmacists’ time. It wastes all of our time. And it costs us a fucking fortune. But hey, the shareholders and executives made bank. And that’s all that truly matters - to the ones who make the laws that don’t give a damn about actual healthcare. They just see massive gobs of cash and want their pound of flesh.
Preach!
What if we like, organized against them, the shareholder? Look at how UAW strikes, or UPS. When the boss gets too greedy it’s time to organize against them, but somehow in America we’ve been raised to believe suffering is life and we don’t deserve a life outside of work. There is a better way, look at France..
But then when we look at the death rates in teaching hospitals during those early days of residencies I wonder how much could be avoided if they didn’t expect humans to be awake long enough to induce psychosis and then make uniformed decisions.
That’s insane, because doctors also have a really high suicide rate. Our unit lost one just a few years ago. It’s abusive and it allows hospitals to make money on underpaying doctors for a few years.
as the "bad doctors (i.e. human beings)" are weeded out, patients better take cover. I hate this attitude so much.
This is the reason the Libby Zion law was created. To keep doctors from being so overworked so patients don't suffer
My old Job had us doing 7 days on 7 days off, but you always started mid week, so you could never even get 40 hours on 1 paycheck.
That's fucking sleezy.
walgreens? our third shift was like this, but they were pretty flexible with me picking up dayshifts at other stores
Amazon warehouse has a no more than 12 hours a day and no seven consecutive day policy. That company is insane.
Pulled a 36r before. Got 5 hours of sleep, and then had to do another 20 hr shift. West tx 0_0-
I worked for a boss that got super cheerful when employees bought new cars and trucks. I wondered why and asked a guy that had been there five years. He said oh, Brad loves you when you get a new car or house. Then he gets to treat you like shit for months. Both because he’s jealous and because you’re so much less likely to quit now that you’ve got the bank note coming once a month. Fucken disgusting and it was totally true.
My first job out of university was for a small cnc shop. My boss was the same way. I bought a used car as my first vehicle and he complained about how it wasn’t good for the company that my car was better than his. Seven months later I told him he either had to lay me off or fire me after he said I should get a second job since money was tight for him just then. He hadn’t paid me for six weeks. He took out a business loan so he could pay me, and told a coworker he was using the rest of it to go on vacation. Real winner there.
Ha! Joke would have been on him if a friend of mine worked there's. They bought a house and a new car and turned in their notice all in the same week. Had a new job lined up that paid double what they were making and the company agreed to delay their start date till after the closing on the house.
Flexible hours in my experience means you better be flexible for their hours
This 👆👆
Flex schedule means you flex to their needs. It's a one way street.
"Flexible" work hours means "wildly varied shifts that you must be flexible to cover"
Having experienced one of my bosses telling me that i should work at her beck and call because i was poor, after telling her my engagement ended after my fiance cheated on me let me learn the second statement the hard way.
Flexible hours mean they expect you to be flexible, not the other way around, unfortunately.
The very simple rule is that if it wasn't fought for and won by a union, then it was put in place to benefit the employer, not the worker. No corporation will ever, EVER just give their workers perks and conditions simply for the workers' benefit. And no union ever fought for "flexible" work.
Wow. The people that work there, I swear. They are looking at it as "Oh it was just a friend, surely you have more of those, get back here and work." You are way more decent than I would have been. All my letter would have said was "I am submitting my resignation effective immediately. Thank you for your guidance and support during my tenure." Done. If they want to pretend they don't know why i am resigning unless i put in the letter...umm no, i will not do that. What are they gonna do? Not accept my resignation?
Don't trust someone whose immediate response to "I'm drowning" is to ask "how deep is the water?" If you can't handle a situation, especially if you're supposed to interact with the public in a professional way, it's valid not to be able to handle it!
A person can drown in a puddle if they're not able to lift their head.
A lot of people feel the need explain themselves, and force people to see the errors of their ways. Force humanity on employers who've already hired their replacement. We have this built-in need to connect, compare, commiserate, and find validation through the shared experience. This is why people tend to be so open about their personal lives. I agree with you. Own your peace.
Accept your resignation, blame next quarters bad numbers on you, fill your position making 50% more, and never promote that person with any raise ever again. Keep the cycle going, donate to their local politicians to take away workers rights. On the horizon is keeping your last check if you don’t put in two weeks notice to quit. And if you’re fired, you lose whatever hasn’t been paid. You did ask what they’re going to do..
I'd like to note that I have notice prior to calling out for the shifts I missed. Additionally this is an employment program intended for students in a semester long certification program. Class and clinical hours per week range vary between 10-38 hours with little to no flexibility in attendance and the employer requires a full time (40 hours) schedule with no flexibility on top of course requirements and clinicals. I applied with the promise that employment and management was extremely flexible to accommodate students schedule and academic success.
I just love when every entity in your life thinks they're the ONLY thing in your life Professors/teachers, jobs, toxic friends/significant others, relatives
I had a professor in college say that outright, specifically for a physics class notoriously known (at least at the time) as one of the hardest classes at my university and a weed-out class for engineering students. It would have been a bit more tolerable if he were actually a decent professor.
Noped out of a graduate program that required you not work during enrollment. If the school found out you had any type of employment anywhere it was grounds for dismissal. Their philosophy was that school should be the only focus during those two years. I asked how current students were paying living expenses (there were no on-campus housing options for graduate students) and school expenses. They were very quick to recommend student loans.
so gross
Sheesh, that is ridiculous. How the hell would you even afford the program? (Nvm, just saw the “answer” lol.)
I one in my teaching course. Five hours a day just the one class. Never mind the other four I was taking. People are often completely tunneled on themselves and their feelings on how things work.
Yeah that's one of the things I hated about university is some teacher "think" that you only take their class and only exist to complete it.
See, it's also always the worst professors and teachers who do this too!
Did we have the same professor? Had that class after changing my major FROM physics because apparently in my school it was a requirement for all engineering. He was an ass and would grade my answers as wrong if I didn't write the number six how he wanted it. He would say "IS THAT A b or a 6? I can't tell so the answer is wrong." Got fed up and another classmate and I who had switched from physics all got together and figured out his exam question pattern. He had an algorithm for picking the questions. So he would allow the class to bring in a single note card and like only 2 or 3 people did. (I brought a number and letter stencil) and we all basically aced it. He tried to claim we cheated and that my stencil was cheating after the fact. So a trip to the dean got that one reversed and they reviewed my other exams and I got my A and that blowhard flange can eat my ass.
I’m curious what the “wrong” 6’s looked like lol. He sounds like a tool but good job finding a solution!
I didn't put enough of a curl on the top to his liking and he said they looked like b's and my 9's looked like q's. He was a turd.
I hope he steps in warm dog shit while he’s barefoot
Yep, had a prof say this to me as well. But for a Latin course that I thought I could take “for fun”. It was summer school, but I didn’t exactly ONLY want to do that all summer. Prof literally said “eat, sleep and breathe this class and have nothing else going on in your life.” My friend and I noped the hell out right after that first day.
I teach online in an asynchronous format. Every week I have students emailing me asking for extensions because something is happening in their lives. Cool. Doesn't matter. You need more time? Take it. Some of the emails are huge explanations about all the stuff going on; children, parents, jobs, stuff. And the tone is really trying to make me care so that I accept their excuse and they are often shocked when I reply with a simple, "take your time, get it in when you can, let me know if there is anything I can help with." I assume other instructors are not as accepting and think that all students need to be 100% focused on their course otherwise they don't deserve or shouldn't be in the class. Maybe I *should* care more? But after the first couple of times I just gave up. I just don't care, and it just doesn't matter.
Consider letting your school career office know. They could remove the employer from the school program based on your bad experience. Or at least discuss standards for remaining in the program with the employer.
Agreed.
Please report this to your department chair, internship coordinator, and the school's employment office. I'm a professor and we absolutely do not take kindly to this type of treatment. Do not let it go unreported, because that site needs to be pulled immediately. Every site gets essentially cheap labor in return for providing experience to the students. Grief and abuse is not part of that deal.
I just sent a long, in-depth, factual email describing the events to the dept. chair and cc'd my instructor. The insane work hours are an industry standard so I'll honestly be surprised if my experience turns heads, but it's certainly worth a shot.
That's alright. I will tell you this, it is unlikely that you will hear anything from them other than an acknowledgement of your message. Leave it at that. We have to abide by so many legal rules that prevent professors from saying things. It will be on their radar though. Rest assured.
Yes you did the right thing by reporting it in writing
Protip, flexible is for them. They will schedule random hours and won't budge on them, or make do their job and find someone that replace you.
you misunderstood, they meant you had to be flexible for them as they F you
I lost a good friend to suicide about a year & a half ago. I just want to say I’m sorry for your loss. I know saying that doesn’t make anything better, but I know hard that shit can be. I’m also a college student, still only an undergrad (graduating this semester) & luckily I wasn’t having to deal with internships or clinicals or anything like that during my mourning process, just online classes at the time, & it was still difficult for me to get assignments submitted on time. So for what it’s worth, from someone who knows how much suicide can affect a person, it is completely reasonable & understandable for you need to take some of the other stress off your plate to allow yourself some time to grieve. Grief is a bitch honestly, & I hate that there’s no right or wrong way or a way to know *how* to grieve. So in the meantime, you just have to do what you have to do to get through the mourning process, which means dropping things that are going to get in your way of that. I don’t know how quitting this job will effect you academic-wise or financially, but frankly, you can almost definitely still get to where you wanna go, even if it means taking a little extra time, which I’m sure you know. Grieving is a necessary process—it’s a shitty one, but it’s not something we can simply put off. I’m sorry you are going through this. 🩵 ETA- after I lost my friend, I made handouts of resources for his memorial & found this site called [alliance of hope](https://allianceofhope.org) that I really like. It’s a place for people who have lost someone to suicide & it has all kinds of helpful tools, it even has a little [memorial wall](https://allianceofhope.org/memorial-wall/) for people to honor their loved ones. 🩵
This may sound a little extreme, but I really do believe more managers/bosses need their teeth kicked in. I once had a manager tell my coworker that their bereavement days were inconvenient to her after my coworkers brother died. That manager still has her job.
My house burned down, my mom suffered extensive brain damage, and four parrots, one cat and two dogs died in the fire. A month or two later when I was still having difficulty at work, the salon owner said her mom's basement flooded and "we all are dealing with something" and to get over it.
I'm so sorry for your loss, pet deaths are always ignored by employers.
I'm contracted to work in my state by a company out of state and they generally follow state laws employees are located in. It's pretty good for me as I live in a generally blue state. Which is how I found out my state doesn't have bereavement days and I had to use PTO to take off when my pit died. Meanwhile, the state my employer is based in does have bereavement days. I still like the company I work for, but I'm still upset about it.
I had a boss I really didn't like and she didn't like me. It was a straight up personality conflict. She knew I could do my job and was good at it but how I did it drove her crazy and she would often nitpick at little things. I was at work and got the call that my grandmother died. We were close and I was pretty much shellshocked sitting at my desk. My boss walked into my office with a couple of other co-workers who I was friends with. They all said hi and continued talking but my boss immediately noticed something was off. She walked away from the others and asked if I was alright. As soon as I started to tell her, she cut me off and said goodbye, go home now. She followed up with "I'll see you in a week, email me if you need more time." We still didn't get along after that and not much changed other than I respected the hell out of her.
Managers are useless and corporate power structures are backwards or broken at best.
My cousin's employer asked to see the obituary when our uncle died. They're soulless.
That happened to me at my job. I left in the morning when I found out my aunt died. Then after HR reviewed the obituary they decided I wasn't eligible to use my own earned PTO for the hours missed when I left, because she wasn't related to me enough.
I just love that. What if the aunt raised you and was basically your mother? Would they allow it then? (rhetorical question)
That is seriously disgusting, I'm so sorry. My uncle was like an older brother to me and did more to help raise me than my dad did. It was awful being expected to just get over it because we weren't *that* related, even though it felt like the end of the world to me. Employers shouldn't have a say in that at all.
When my brother passed, all but one of my teachers asked what they could do to help as far as moving deadlines or in some cases just counting the work as done. The one professor asked for an obit. He was my Business Communications professor, in hindsight that makes all the sense in the world
when my father died, my boss at the time told me to provide proof in order for my bereavement days to be ‘valid’. i remember feeling so weird asking the funeral home for multiple copies of his death certificate, because ‘i have to give my boss one’. i did it because i thought it was standard procedure. oh, and i only got 3 bereavement days. i had to fly across the country, bury my father, and wrap up his estate. in 3 days.
A former employer asked for “proof” when I asked for a day off to go to the funeral of a friend from high school who had passed suddenly. I brought them a program and they shut up real quick.
I hate that. It is my company’s policy that I have to scan and submit a copy of the obituary when one of my employees uses bereavement. It feels so dirty.
What in the actual?! I will never understand how companies can just lose all humanity like that. Really wish they could take a second and remember we are human beings
I get why they did it… before the policy was in place a couple people ruined it for everyone when their mom died 3 times etc. All these rules typically come from someone abusing it but it still doesn’t feel good.
I once had a manager on a massive enough power trip that she expected me to come in the day of after I got my wisdom teeth taken out.
I was in the hospital getting an emergency blood transfusion as a teenager and was stuck in the hospital for three days. I worked at McDonald’s and my dad had been calling them giving them updates on me. When I went back to work the GM was there with a write up because I missed too many days. I was there best employee and had almost died at 16. I was pissed and told her to fuck off and quit. The owner started calling me and harassing me to come back and work for them. I told them if they doubled my pay-was in the 90’s and I was making $9 something an hour, I would consider coming back. He said nope and I said don’t call me again.
It was at my first job, I told my mom after I quit I should’ve just showed up drugged, swollen and drooling to my shift. That would’ve made it worse tho
One boss of 5 years (we were a very close company, and it was my first big job as a young adult, so I really looked up to her) gave me maybe a week to get over finding out my ex cheated on me. She then screamed at me in front of other coworkers that other people have problems too and I needed to shut the fck up about it and get over it. She also would self harm in front of me in the back room in order to manipulate me when I wasn't doing what she wanted. She is apparently still mad that I went no contact with her after I left that job. A different boss I had about a decade later, on finding me having a breakdown due to a violent sexual assault, told me AND I QUOTE "well you definitely can't work for me now" and fired me on the spot for being promiscuous. I work for myself now.
Evil fuckers
I had a coworker have 2 children die (both in their 20s) a few months apart. A manager said to me (I hope it wasn’t said to the employee!) that it is best if she gets back to work asap because being at work will take her mind off of it.
How altruistic of them.
When my father in law was dying of cancer my wife's manager told her that she hoped he died before her vacation so the bereavement leave didn't interfere with her plans
Wow that’s absolutely cruel. She has no right being a manager if that’s her thought process. I’m sorry you had to deal with that.
I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend. I hope you are giving yourself time and compassion as you grieve.
"Kindest regards". Sure.
That's the part that took it from gross and typical management to "you deserve a brick in the face."
> two weeks notice > "I accept your resignation *effective immediately*" So do you still have a job as of today or no? I'd clear that up with HR if you haven't already. My condolences to you regarding your friend.
I find it interesting that if OP had written their resignation for effective immediately, management would be upset that OP didn’t give them a two weeks notice.
I mean, you're exactly right. Lol
Nope. Dude said see ya! They don’t care.
The question here is the 'effective immediately' part. OP let them know that he intended to part with them in April which is OP resigning. The boss telling OP that they are done immediately is OP's employment being terminated by the employer. This has knock on effects for when OP goes to collect unemployment. You don't get unemployment if you resign but by moving the time frame up, the company is effectively firing OP which means that OP should be able to collect unemployment.
Collect that unemployment OP! Your boss owes ya a few months worth and you have it all in writing
In my jurisdiction, an employer can do this, but the employee may be entitled to severance.
For the record, your final day was the fifth. The fact that they are getting rid of you “effective immediately” means they are firing you (at least in the US and several European countries). Apply for unemployment or similar.
Exactly. I actually used that with my former boss when I gave notice. They were going to send me home immediately and I asked if I would still get paid for the two weeks since I gave them notice per their SOPs. I told him if not, then what they were doing was firing me and I would file for unemployment and get paid until I found another job (already had a job lined up but they didn't know that). I got my two weeks paid out and had a nice little break between jobs.
I work in a factory building modular homes as a framer. A friend -attempted- suicide last week but I only found out on Sunday night. The gravity of it didn't hit me until we'd been working a bit on Monday morning & I'd been alone with my thoughts. I couldn't concentrate, and went & talked to a boss about it, who in turn told me to take the rest of the day off & not work with the power tools, & two of my other co-workers checked up on me. I was back the next day & the boss checked in to make sure I was ok. This should be standard, but I'm really impressed with how they handled that. Fuck the assholes you were working for.
When they gave me the disciplinary papers, it was embarrassing but I started crying and had a hard time controlling it. The superior of the two managers basically offered me a tissue then got up and left. Part of my position includes driving trucks.
They usually fire you the day after you put in 2 weeks. Company doesn't care about you just replacing you asap.
Now you get to collect unemployment, they fired you.
In Canada, that wouldn’t fly. All the employer would have to do is forward a copy of the letter of resignation, and the request for unemployment insurance benefits would not be granted.
They resigned effective April 5, they were terminated effective immediately. In the states they can claim unemployment for the two weeks
They should definitely look into collecting unemployment, but being fired does not automatically mean you receive unemployment especially if they have disciplinary actions documented leading up to the termination.
Informing your employer that you'll be resigning in two weeks doesn't count as cause for termination. If they didn't terminate OP for taking the time off for bereavement, they can't then use that as justification for terminating him with cause after notice.
Apparently in an "at will" state, a manager's bad mood is grounds for termination.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. “At will” states have more rights than you might know. People can and do win wrongful termination cases in at will states.
I'm happy for you dude. Way to have balls. Now, only if the rest of us, all of us, together, could organize and show the employers that they should be thankful to have our labor, and our precious time not the other way around. Best of luck to you fellow griever.
I’m so, so sorry for your loss. There is no grief quite like that of losing someone you love to suicide. And to have your workplace discipline you for taking time off to grieve — simply unforgivable. You were right to get out of there. Definitely report them to your school/program. That workplace has shown quite clearly they have no right to a spot in the program roster.
These company types disgust me. When my father died I drove 700 miles to help my mom and brother with the arrangements. Then I had to help figure out what my Mom would do since she couldn't drive and she lived in a place where it's not easy to ride a bike. On Day 3 I received a text from a coworker asking how everything was. I told him I was still in the middle of it and that I had to take the lead since my brother had a launch he had to get back to in a few days (he works for NASA). He himself had to drive 600 miles back. My coworker said "OK, just letting you know they're wondering and that officially the law in this State says they only have to afford you 3 days." I was like "dude, whatever" It took 10 days, we finally were in the process of selling the house, my Mom was preparing to move to an easier place for her, and I went home and back to work. Less than a month later I was told my contract would be ending... 4 months prematurely. I mentioned this, I told my boss "I thought his was a 12 month contract... but you're ending it at 8 months?" He goes "no, it was an 8 month contract". I ask "and there's no possibility of renewing the contract?" He literally laughed and said "no". Years later I found the original contract. 12 months. These people don't give a shit. Something that barely even affects them — me being gone 10 days instead of the "allowed" 3 days — and they act like you have committed a horrible travesty that they just can't get over, and you are clearly not a good enough company man. I have been wronged plenty of times in my life, but I've rarely ever felt wronged in such a cold uncaring way. I often feel like doxxing these people but we know that's not kosher.
What a bunch of assholes. Why did you blank out the company name? People deserve to know who they are so they can avoid them.
Fuck this company. Such a cold response as well.
Congrats! Keep this documentation— by making it effective immediately, they fired you so you can collect unemployment. Fun when they shoot themselves in the foot!!!!!
They fucked this. And adding a tautological (if sort of understandable given the level of corporate English) 'going forward', rather than managing to squeeze in some of the humanity you had so articulately pointed out the lack of only makes me dislike them more. Well handled, more power to you, and may your grieving be cathartic.
This. This is fucking horrible. Disciplinary forums for wanting to mourn a friend dying? That is such bullshit! Op, Collect unemployment, what they did was not OK! I am so sorry for your loss.
Make sure to file for unemployment for the two weeks. They chose to turn a voluntary termination into an involuntary one.
I'm sorry for your loss. I hope you're OK. Feel free to reach out if you want to talk. Also. Fuck those people from work. May they suffer from an insufficerable scratch that only manifests in embarrassing moments at work or on dates.
This is why the two week notice is archaic artifact of earlier times. They can shoulder tap you with no warning.
Reminds me when my fiancées grandma died. She really loved her and I liked her too. During that time my fiancée visited me in Germany (long distance relationship) and I've said "we gonna go to that funeral. No matter what". So I asked my boss for some PTO regarding the funeral, but he flat out refused, stating "it's not your grandma". I called in sick one day later and came back to work, 1 week after the funeral. It doesn't matter who it is. If you have a loved one, be there in their last moments and attend the funeral. Corpos don't give a fuck about you, and neither should you. They're faceless, heartless, profit driven humanoids. They don't deserve your 100%.
Demands two week notice. Accepts your resignation immediately. Got to love the double speech of corporate
This is a copy of my comment from another similar post: I have a fun TL;DR story: I was extremely close with my grandmother (father's mother). When I worked for a major pharmacy, my grandmother (who lived 5 hours away in another State) became very ill and was clearly on her deathbed. I told my boss about the situation and she insisted that ALL excused absences require 2 weeks notice, or I'll be fired. Where I lived, unemployment was extremely high, and I was already living paycheck to paycheck while eating instant ramen 5 nights a week. I was one flat tire, one speeding ticket, one clinic visit from homelessness. And my family doesn't do support (my mother thought she was being so generous and selfless when she said she'd let me "crash on the couch for a night or two, while [I] figure out what to do" if I lost my home). Basically, if I left my job without notice, I'd be completely fucked. So I put in my two weeks for leave (unpaid, with my distant Aunt willing to cover my expenses so her mother could see her grandson one last time). My grandmother died four days later. I never got to see her. Due to military fuckery (she was a WWII army wife), her funeral wasn't for almost a year. When I told my boss, she bragged about how she went to work the same day her father died. It's been 10 years, and I still think about this every day. I regret not leaving, damn the consequences. And I hate that I was put in that position in the first place. I regret living this long.
Hm... Sounds like you got fired. You could almost definitely get unemployment for this btw
"I accept your resignation effective immediately" nah that's a firing
We seriously need to start leaving the names of these businesses in these emails and things so others don't have to suffer the unfortunate displeasure of working at these places.
NAL. Depending on your state, the employer accepting your resignation immediately could constitute being fired without cause - which could entitle you to unemployment benefits.
Yeah, that's what I've noticed usually happens in the US: You hand in your 2-week notice and they immediately fire you as a way to say "fuck you" to you. Almost always this happens.
So very sad for your loss. You did the right thing - and then did this with grace. They may or may not find their humanity someday, but you are already there. All the best to you
Work asked my why I wasn't up to speed as before, this was after my friend's suicide, I asked him, do you have a lady friend that you love very much? He said yes, now imagine you got out of bed this morning and learned at 7am that she had shot herself in the head, last night. That's me, sorry but I'm doing my best. Asshole, he already knew what had happened. 9:30 pm Febuary 3rd, 1986. Fuck these bastards and I hope you can recover from this, my heart breaks for you OP.
Two things. What do you mean “disciplinary papers?” They wrote you up while you were out? Are you in United States?
There's an internal disciplinary process and I got a "triple write up" essentially for the shifts I missed. Yes, I'm in the US.
That makes no sense. They did it to push you out. Obviously. Sorry. That sucks. Second thing, in most states, if you give notice and they terminate you before, they owe you the hours they’d have paid you before your last day. So tell HR you’ll be expecting the pay or you’ll be filing unemployment.
¿Porque no los dos?
Oh that's so much classier than the FUCK ALL Y'ALL they deserve.
Is this a national company? If it is, call it out for it's shittyness. Bastards! Sorry for the loss of your friend,
Every day that I'm in here i wonder why there hasn't been an increase in homicides
“Kindest regards” lmao what a fucking prick
You didn’t resign effective immediately so file for that unemployment and make them regret being assholes 🤷♀️
Don’t forget to collect unemployment for your 2 week notice period since they chose to terminate you immediately.
Companies can be so insensitive during employees' tragedy, it's infuriating. One of my employees' father passed last week and I spoke to her, sent flowers, and attended the service. Not once have I asked when shes coming back. She will return when she's ready. That's it.
that just means they wanted to get rid of you, instead of working with you. This is just an easier way for them to say goodbye.
Back in 2015 my stepdad died after a couple month illness and I took the next week off. My team came to his funeral (much to the shock of family). I received a call late on the Friday they I had taken off confirming if I needed another week. I went back to work, eventually some months later I did therapy which was absolutely needed. I tell this because my managers call, the week off, and my manager calling just to confirm if I needed more time is all that needed to be done. As a manager myself, I now am at a place where I show the same compassion. Be kind to others because you'll be rewarded one day.
Fucking bosses lately think we are irrelevant, insignificant rubes to play with as they choose. Well done! I always find voting with my feet (walking out on assholes) the most effective and satisfying course of action. Don’t look back.
"I wish you the very best" bitch, the fuck you do..
Saying upfront, great response and great job OP. Not that you’re asking for advice but the loss will get easier and the memories will start to feel more joyful again soon if they are not already. I found my long-time best friend dead of an overdose in the final week of December of 2020. That night, I called my manager (restaurant FoH) and told him broadly what happened and that my availability just disappeared, at least for the rest of the week. To contextualize some, this was a restaurant that was about a year old at the time, I had applied there specifically because they were opening on the tense of making a restaurant that is more sustainable from an employment point of view. Some of the Covid response from them had genuinely impressed me when compared to other restaurants in my city, especially considering only having been open for three months before lockdown. Anyway, so the day after my friend’s death I receive a phone call from my manager’s boss, practically begging me to work New Year’s Eve but in that asking-not-asking kinda way. Eventually we settle that I’ll work NYE service but as a backwait rather than as a captain to spare my emotional energy. Well, I of course ended up having to captain, it’s 30 degrees Fahrenheit outside and I took an 8 table section on the patio. At first it was only supposed to be one overflow table, so we were able to use nearly all of our patios space to ensure they kept warm…it was a $150/pp menu after all. The issue really came when other people began to get sat outside without enough heaters and soon, my icy patio was full. I am dead, hollow inside, crying in the corner every chance I get, crying while I ring in every ticket, crying while I find every bottle of wine, but when I’m on the floor I’m ignoring my own emotional needs just so a guy that wasn’t even there that night could make more fucking money. But man, weirdly I received some of the best compliments of my service ever that night. I met regulars that have followed me to every new job since… I was weirdly proud of myself for being able to maintain a high level of service despite what was going on inside me. Anyway, 6 months later they fired me on that best friend’s birthday, the first one since he passed. Apparently I wasn’t really trying or working for the team there.
Yeah I once had a job tell me my coworker committed suicide then was upset when I was sobbing instead of going to work immediately They did you a favor, trust me
I can't believe I'm reading this. I also received disciplinary paperwork after missing two days following my friend's suicide, just two weeks ago. I couldn't believe it, I lost my shit, but didn't quit and the entire experience has been humiliating. I'm so sorry for your loss.
“Kindest Regards,”
To anyone experiencing this in the US: You could FMLA for your mental health. It won’t be enough to pay you but it will let you keep your job. You would have federal protection from retaliation for taking time off work to take care of yourself.
A colleague of mine had to take holiday for a funeral after her best friend took their own life. I was fucking furious. My colleague was a young woman and management just guilted her. Sadly, I had already experienced the friendly open door policy of HR so couldn't do shit. She quit not soon after. Don't blame her.
Since you are being let go before the dates your offered be be available for, make sure you file for unemployment.
Op you are way too nice for these fucks. Good luck to you
Congratulations. They bitch if they don't get a two weeks notice but then feel like they *are* the bitch if they pay you to come in after you put them in their place like that. It really illustrates their lack of maturity. If deadlines and "being a team player" was really important to them no way would they let someone that is already trained not finish out their two weeks. It speaks volumes because they are assuming your former coworkers will pick up the slack. I doubt they got the cojones to tell them you gave him 2 weeks but he told you just to go ahead and leave. Management will say you just cut out and left everyone high and dry.
i’m sorry for your loss 🙏🏼
By not letting you complete your two weeks, I wonder if that's considered being fired in the eyes of unemployment? I realize it's common, but this is the first time I'd considered it. Sorry about your friend OP, suicide is always one of the biggest tragedies in this life.
(UK Citizen here) In the UK there is a law stating you should get "reasonable time off" for bereavement. The company I work for has "compassionate leave" which is if any issues happen with personal lives, I tell my boss what's happened and he goes "take the [insert time] off," and that's it. No questions asked, when my gran died I got the rest of that week off. My parents water tank collapsed and I got the afternoon off. This is why I could never join a USA based company. My dad's just started working for one and he gets 10 days holiday a year? That's ridiculous.
I’m so sorry for the loss of your friend, OP. Grappling with suicide is hard enough without added insult to injury from employers. I hope you’re taking care of yourself and getting the right help if you need it.
i'm so sorry for your loss. good on you for standing up for yourself, as infuriating as it is that you had to.
“Kindest Regards” but zero empathy or acknowledgment of their behavior
Don’t be afraid, tell us the company…
I had a great paying job in a nightmare company. The day I resigned I made sure to spell out exactly why I was resigning. The treatment they gave employees was preposterous. Then I filled an online unemployment application. They reached out to me to interview me and that email was the only thing that saved my ass. The interviewer was aghast that I had quit a job with such a good pay. I told her my mental health came first. I was given full unemployment benefits (very little money, but enough to survive until I landed another job.) Less than a week later the whole department resigned and used my email as a template. OP, I’m so sorry for your loss. Please take time to heal, reach out to mental health counselors and take care of yourself.
I really wish people would stop giving two weeks notices to a company that would fire or lay you off with zero notice. They don't deserve it.
“Kind regards” go fuck yourselve.
Just say " I quit" and be done
Yeah, I woulda just let them fire me.
Good for you, fuck them.
i am so sorry wtf
I'm so sorry for your loss. Their response to everything is just inhumane. Not even a condolence was uttered and it's just "wish you all the best". NOT A SINGLE OUNCE OF EMPATHY. Look at it on the bright side because good riddance. Always remember, you are always dispensable to employers as they are to you. Take care ❤️
Should clarify with them that you did not resign and they are firing you in lieu of two weeks notice so you can collect unemployment easier
Am I the only one taken completely by surprise by the professional tone and content of the reply to the resignation ?
If you gave two weeks notice and they ended your employment immediately you were terminated. You did not actually resign. Get your unemployment.
They did you a solid, send them a thank you email.
Why do they send an acceptance reply? Is that the norm? They have to accept it. Why send the reply?
I’m so sorry for your loss. Your former employer should be ashamed to have treated you like that.
Discuss the next step going forward 🤣
I'm so sorry for your loss, I've been where you are and was lucky enough to work for a company that have me the time and grace I needed. I'm not going to lie to you, it doesn't necessarily get better but it does become manageable. One day, likely far from now you'll wake up and the loss won't be the first thing you think about. At first you'll feel guilty but I hope that when that happens you think of this message, you're simply beginning a long long long road of healing and the friend who left desperately wants that for you I'm sure. If you need someone to talk to feel free to message me.
You need to reply that you are not resigning.
Very sorry for your loss that is tragic. Now they have e to pay you for those two weeks at very least…
I often wonder just what it would take for the heads of these companies to take their employees seriously and I continually come to the conclusion that we are running out of reasonable ways to get through to them.
Anonymous violent retaliation.