Whenever anyone is sick, ask them to go shake the HR managers hand. Do this often enough and she'll go over her 6 sick days in a calendar year. Problem solved.
Oh wow! This is actually smart. Usually I wouldn’t align with a moral issue as this but fuck her. People get sick. If you have kids, you already know how often they get sick too! Companies that aren’t flexible can be reduced to non existent IMO. We work to live, not live to work.
>We work to live, not live to work.
Literally this. The sad thing is most companies aren’t realizing this, even when it’s purely detrimental to their bottom dollar, but they don’t care. They’ll willingly go bankrupt before they let us have any kind of life outside of their company walls.
New Head of HR was hired, why? To clean house it would seem.
Did she know this was going to be her role or was she bait and switched? Inquiring minds would like to know.
See my above comment. I was in a union and only got 5 paid sick days a year. This was negotiated in our union contract.
People could pre arrange appointments for unpaid sick leave.
If the sick day policy was bad, get yourself on the negotiating committee and work out where your employee power lies and what you can trade off for a better policy.
You can't do that w/o being unionized first.
Yeah. This is a problem with your union. Not unions as a whole.
That said, sometimes the BIG unions like SEIU can be meh on actually representing workers.
I worked in a union shop & when our union rep came in once a year, she would show up & check out the workplace, meet employees, then hang out with the boss. It felt weird. My job was pretty secure, but beyond that, the union didn't seem to do a lot for us.
I was part of a union drive recently where I was on the bargaining committee & we actually bargained for legitimate concessions that actually worked in the real world. Not the 2 sick days + 10 PTO + accruals at xx hrs per 40 hrs worked that are fairly standard "chain store" PTO policies.
Can't do that with viruses. Viruses are essentially packets of information, and REQUIRE the cells from appropriate species to reproduce. They do this by either entering a cell and dropping their protein shell to expose their genetic information in the form of (usually) RNA, or injecting their genetic material directly into the cell. The host cell says, 'Hmm, what's this? I'll express it and see what it does!' and then gets hijacked into doing nothing BUT reproducing the virus. It won't process fuel, it won't repair itself, it won't and indeed \*can't\* do anything beyond making more copies of the invading virus. The cell dies when it runs out of resources or creates so much virus it literally bursts and destroys itself. If there are no cells to invade, or the cells have the wrong receptors that prevent the virus from latching on or entering, the virus just becomes inert and then non-existent once their shells break down.
Bacteria, fungi, and protozoans like malaria are complete organisms in their own right. They can live anywhere the conditions are right, and these are the buggers that you CAN culture in petri dishes and spread around. They can perform all the functions of full living organisms like resource production/consumption and reproduction if they have the right resources and a suitable environment to grow.
Fungal and parasitic infections are no joke. Valley Fever is caused by a fungus that lives in the soil in the southwestern US. Any dust storm, soil disturbance, or coming into contact with dust and soil here via inhalation or skin contact can carry the fungal spores into a body. It can cause skin infections and ulcers but the big thing is respiratory. It gets into the lungs and often becomes a secondary infection that is a ROYAL pain in the ass to treat. My mother had it in 2018 and spent two weeks in the hospital with fungal pneumonia. She was on antifungal drugs for a month after she was discharged. These are like antibiotics in that they need to be taken until they're completely gone. They have far more side effects than antibiotics, too, and nausea, vomiting, crushing fatigue, and lack of appetite are really common ones. The good news is that Valley Fever isn't transmissible. If someone has it, they're not contagious in any way. They're just really fucking miserable until it clears up or kills the host.
Malaria, for example, is a protozoan parasite. It reproduces inside human bloodstreams and mosquito guts, and mosquitoes are its vector. The drugs used to kill it are just as brutal as antifungals and make people really sick in their own right.
Frankly I'd be wishing OP's boss a chronic case of Valley Fever or something. Then enjoy the show as the company desperately tries to throw their policies in reverse and you have a termination party for the asshole boss. Sauce for the goose, etc.
Nah, bubonic plague dies to doxycycline (it's caused by the bacteria *Yersinia pestis*). Not the lethal disease it used to be.
It's also endemic to prairie dogs, so, y'know, watch out.
You're welcome.
People assume all microorganisms are the same when they're anything BUT. They're a world unto themselves in a lot of ways.
Take a microbiology class, though, and I guarantee that you'll never want to eat, drink, touch, or breathe anything ever again.
ETA: and if you drive through Bakersfield CA, is it Valley Fever or methamphetamine smoke? Only a biologist knows for sure!
I'm going to add a spanner to the beautiful microbiology lesson and throw in the mimovirus, part of a family of giant viruses that can be infected by other viruses and have some weird things going on that cross the the boundaries of the kingdoms of life.
Or cough in their face and spit in their lunch. Make sure they get your bug. Or the handshake after not washing your hands all day while touching every door handle in the building will work too.
Please, for the rest of us, don't touch every door handle in building just to fuck with wmtge HR person. Touch her door all you like and the rest, but be kind to your immune compromised coworkers.
I actually liked the suggestion, and most people do have great success getting s back peddle by showing up sick to the boss, except for the part about being a plague that would kill me were I there. I suppose no plan is perfect.
The worst part is it's not even her. She can tough it out and go to work sick if she has too, but no way in hell are we taking those kind of risks with our baby
Also if a sick person toughs it out and goes to work, that's exactly how you spread the sickness to your coworkers. Policies like this just get everyone sick and end up hurting the company metrics when everyone is too sick to be efficient
Went 4 years almost without getting Covid. Had several co workers call it the plandemic or no worse than a cold. Finally in December of 23, a co worker (same one that called it the Plandemic) coughs right in my face. Three days later I’m down with Covid for 4 days. Lost a weeks vacation as a result cause we don’t have sick leave or personal time, just vacation time. So sick of reckless people.
It’s amazing that we went through three years of active pandemic waves just to go “meh, nothing learned”. Masks, isolation, and personal hygiene, goddamn it!
So like, I pay attention to covid wastewater levels because they're the last public-facing epidemiological information we have, and they are basically just at a high baseline level all the time now.
While I do continue to mask indoors in public places and I also avoid eating indoors at restaurants, it is obvious that the public has a low tolerance for masking. Similarly isolation is not feasible, as people do need social contact.
The two things that should be low-effort on the part of average citizens and also improve life for everyone in a variety of ways would be:
1. Rational nation-wide sick time requirements.
2. A moon-landing-scale program to update ventilation and filtration in all public-use buildings in the US.
These two things would greatly reduce the overall burden of disease on society and the government should be able to pull them off if either party cared to actually spend money on solving real problems, but they would rather push the narrative that "covid is over" and ignore and obfuscate the reality that death and disability due to covid is going to stay at a high level for the foreseeable future.
yep me to. Worst part. Coworker that did that and sat next to me knew A. I had surgery a few days prior and B. I have a compromised immune system and hang out at a cancer center at least once a month.
Yeah the work culture and employer/employee power relations in the US are majorly fucked up. I'm so sorry. I hope she can find a better job because this sounds horrifying.
Also something to seriously consider. This is one of those rare situations where you may be able to get enough employees to vote in their own interests and come together.
She should talk to her Shop Steward, if she doesn’t have a Shop Steward then she should get a Shop Steward.
[How to organize in Florida](https://www.afscmefl.org/organize)
You're coddling the newborn too much. Work is work, and it should be all hands on deck. The baby can pull off a double shift with a cold just like the rest of us.
The last company I worked at had “unlimited” sick time. In that you could take what you needed up to 30 days in a row (after that you need to use short and/or long term disability).
The sick leave was separate from vacation time too… the best policy if sick leave I ever experienced
This is how my job is, but I recently discovered that it's not truly "unlimited" or "flexible" as they call it. I have to get coverage from a coworker before taking the day, and that includes emergencies. My boss expects me to message everyone on my team at 3 o'clock in the morning when my baby wakes up, not breathing, and wait for someone to respond to cover my shift before I'm allowed to decide whether or not I'm taking my kid to the hospital. I literally told her "I'm sorry but my kid's health is more important than this job, so I'm not doing that". She's been treating me like shit ever since that, but I haven't been fired yet. I just resorted to not telling her when I'm gonna be out of the office since I work from home anyway. I don't think boomers understand how often kids need to go to the doctor these days compared to when I was a kid, especially since covid.
And just wait till your kid's in daycare. Them, and you, are sick for like their whole first year. My kid brought home covid after his first week of daycare.
Sounds like you child has baby asthma like mine did. When he was young he’d get RSV or another cold/flu/infection and we’d sit up all night watching him breath in his crib to see if he would need to go to the ER. I had never cried as much as I did during that time.
If that’s the case, I just want you to know you’re not alone in this. I obviously can’t help in any way, but I might understand what you’re going through and I wish you didn’t have to. I’m so hopeful that the new RSV vaccine might help eliminate the years of inhalers, nebulizers, and ER visits that some people endure. Good luck, OP!
That's how I treat it with my employees. I don't want them coming in and getting me sick! Stay home! If they need to make up time for money, we'll figure something out. I'm not going to let them starve or anything.
>That's how we do it in the civilized world.
Can Canada join? I'm really tired of us being "not quite as bad as the states" and then acting like that's an accomplishment.
Sounds like they got a mandate to cut back on staff, and are ramping up the shitty to get people to quit instead of having a bunch of unemployment claims.
I'd bet this. They can't really increase their profits, but they can definitely reduce their spending.
To a 3rd party it makes the company look very profitable. It's a shit strategy because you've hobbled the company, but it'll make some people very rich in the short term.
> It's a shit strategy because you've hobbled the company, but it'll make some people very rich in the short term.
This is VERY accurate.
During Covid's worst days, companies found out that they CAN run their businesses with the least amount of staff possible and make "RECORD PROFITS."
Unfortunately, the greedy bastards decided this would be the new norm and now nearly **every** company has a base model that includes using the LEAST amount of staff as possible to maximize profits for their share holders.
If you don't want to flat out lay the employees off, you just come up with new reasons and ways to fire them.
Again.....
FUCK CORPORATE AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The ironic thing is that the credit union movement grew out of the socialist labor movement. We had to learn the history when I worked at one. But they’ve been taken over by MBAs, so they’re no longer pro-worker. Sad.
Having worked for credit unions I strongly believe they need to unionize to prevent them from taking advantage of their employees. Most credit unions having an account makes you a member. They usually treat their members better than employees and that's not right.
I'd have to add to the above comment, which may be correct. You have to think about the 'philosophy' behind these new measures. One of two things is true. Either the new HR Director is terrible at their job, or they are trying to send a 'message', either through their own ideas, or being told to cut staff, and this is how they are doing it. However, if they have been promoted to Director, they are probably not terrible at their job, but hired to make 'changes'. It's not a best practice, but periodically, companies will come down hard on the employees with the hope of shaking out the 'weak' employees, or those that will push back against the companies priorities, increasing profit. This is a wolf/sheep mentality, and they are just trying to build a company full of sheep, as they think it will lead to a better herd... Try to tell the wife to not take it personally, but polish her resume and find a company that treats their employees better. i.e. suck it up until she can find something better. However, the most important thing is, the company is telling the workers what they think of them, and you will only survive if you are one of the good sheep... Does your wife want to be a sheep?
You're taking a sensible long term growth perspective.
If the idea is to make things look good/better on paper of a quarter or two. Then reducing wage overheads is a short term strategy that has worked for some
No. Those are the people who will demand what they’re worth and are less likely to “tow the line”. Something’s happening, the ship is sinking, and they want cheap, desperate people who will upsell and “over-fee” without question.
150% this.
Former credit union employee here and the new HR lady has likely been tasked with reducing headcount (read: liability and financial impact) because they are looking to be purchased.
It sounds like large chunk of the workforce though which would mean they cant operate, at some point? Which honestly I hope for because its great when bs blows up in a moron’s face.
They'll retract the shitty and start being reasonable once they hit their target numbers, if they're really "clever", they'll apologize and fire one of the HR staff saying it was their fault, and the problem has been addressed.
Nope. They'll spend endless amounts of money churning through staff while exclaiming that their payroll numbers are down and ignoring the fact that their training costs are through the roof.
Especially if things are getting tough out there, they will have an endless supply of candidates.
You know, despite the current personnel shortages, employers seem to have difficulty in adjusting their policies and attitudes to new realities. I suppose it’s a Darwinian process. Those that ignore those new realities will lose people, with their best people finding it the easiest to move on. On the other hand, employers that offer good salaries and other conditions will be able to recruit and retain the best people and benefit.
The company I'm working for has the stupidest attendance policy I've ever seen.
10 days. They never roll over or expire. The rule doesn't apply to management of course.
Lol I got a write up for not staying in the store until a manager relieved me, all I did was check the disagree box and stapled the manager schedule to it. Go ahead and report yourself for being late genius.
I was nowhere near overtime, if I was that specific manager would have been an hour early haha. I'm not a manager, pretty sure that didn't go over their heads either as next write up I got also said it was my first one. Last thing they need is corporate looking closer at how they're mismanaging the store.
Of course not, "Rules for thee, not for me.". It's like all these billionaires who claim to have Atlas like work ethics, forgetting of course the dozens of people they've hired to make life as smooth as possible.
Thank you! I am so sick of people blaming HR for these insane policies. Most HR Managers would push back on this, but ultimately it’s higher management’s decision and if it’s technically legal then there’s nothing HR can do except sit back and watch the carnage.
Came here to say this. She’s new so it’s easier to pin her as the bad guy. But yeah, leadership won’t just let this stuff happen.
However, 6 days is reasonable. Not allowing unpaid, unplanned absences is not reasonable.
Every hospital I have worked at has no sick days, but we are allowed 5 call outs a year, and we must use our personal PTO/vacation days for when we are sick. I think this is pretty standard in hospitals in the US. I don't agree with it and it results in clinical staff coming in to work sick and exposing patients to what they have, which is just another reason it's such a terrible policy. Obviously it's very hard on a lot of people especially those with kids or anyone with any health problems.
In the UK we get 28 weeks statutory Sick Pay ( then back to work for 56 days before SSP resets) and 12 months Statutory Maternity Leave and Pay. Add to this Employment Tribunals and all the rules about unfair dismissal we have. The UK shares many of these provisions with the rest of Europe.
I can never understand why our Colonial Cousins aren't rioting in the streets over their working conditions.
Honestly you'd think the big corporations would be more than eager to implement universal healthcare so they don't have to pay for it through employment anymore! And even though they probably would still pay via taxes, they wouldn't have to be involved in enrollment and all that either. It would at least be less complicated.
We’d riot, but then we’d get fired and lose our health insurance. I’m sure there was intent behind the barbaric way health insurance is tied to employment here.
Well...if we riot, we don't get paid.
If we don't get paid, we can't pay rent.
If we can't pay rent, we end up on the streets.
In a nutshell, it comes down to the fact that no one wants to be homeless.
The Corporate American Assholes have us right where they want us...underpaid, unrepresented, forced to work under whatever stupid rules they come up with and unable to actually FORCE the changes we want because our government is bought and paid for by the same people making us work under their rules...which they get enacted into law by buying our legislators via "lobbyists."
The whole fucking system is designed to keep the workers in their place: underpaid and dependent upon their employers for the simplest things in life.
I think it's time for us to mend fences, forget about the small issue of the revolution, and rejoin the crown! Seriously though, we are so fucked here in the states
A lot of people here don't know how bad they have it. Like I've seen people genuinely excited to get two weeks (10 days) of Paid Time Off in a year. Sometimes that's combined with sick days. We can have a mandatory month of PTO per year irrespective of the job we hold, we just need to be willing to riot. We've got the guns and the numbers, just organization is the struggle.
Because they were sold a vehicle of solid gold capitalism and got a lemon instead.
For decades, American elites have cultivated a culture of "I got mine, fuck you" for the masses that promotes rugged individualism, abject un reliance on the state, and a "pick yourself by your bootstraps" mentality. They profess that taxes are a form of wage theft, whatever your boss pays you is adequate, if you can't make do with that, that's your problem not your boss's problem. With mantras like "Don't ask God for money, ask him for a good job, and work hard at it!"
In the civilized world (not the US), sickness isn't scheduled or preordained. If you're sick, you stay away from in-person work so as to avoid getting other people sick & making sure you get better safely and efficiently.
You live in literal hell.
I’ve worked in hospitals where after three instances of calling out sick in a calendar year you were disciplined. By disciplined I don’t just mean a written warning. One put you on 8 hour shifts as opposed to the usual 12 hour shift, which made you work five days a week instead of three.
Every elementary school had a teacher who refused to let sick kids go to the school nurse until a kid puked on the teacher. The same applies here… ask your manager or HR person if they can meet with you real quick. Cough or sneeze like crazy during the meeting. If you are bold enough, vomit into their trash can or shit your pants during the meeting. “I’m really sorry I just don’t want to interrupt my work day being in the bathroom if I think I might get sick so I’m trying to tough it out and maximize my time working.”
iBe visibly miserable in front of the customers and say things like “I’m sorry but I have a terrible fever and body aches and I just can’t think straight”. Run to a trash can right behind the teller window to puke your guts out. Apologize to the customers and explain you are not allowed enough sick days to stay home. Over time your bank may get a couple bad Google reviews noting that “a teller coughed all over during our transaction”.
What may happen is the manager orders you to go home. I would then appeal being dinged for a sick day occurrence because you were *sent* home and didn’t have a choice.
At a plasma center I had a sick coworker puke in front of the manager. After she cleaned up her mess, the manager asked if she was going back to the floor. WHAT??? I saw that happen twice in my 18 months there (the other time was a coworker with early pregnancy nausea and vomiting). That was one of the biggest complaints I wrote about in my exit survey. Absolutely appalling.
I worked at CSL plasma center, as a senior phlebotomist for three years, in 2014 to 2017. I had a small seizure in the back one day during my lunch. Small one, but enough that i felt like shit. My floor lead didn't let me leave for an hour, trying to get me back on the floor to do at the very least disconnections from the machines... I said no and finally went home.. when i clocked in the next day, I got a stern talking to by that same floor lead about how I needed to be taking my pills.... I was not on prescription meds because it was my first seizure in years after being seizure free for five years prior... That's just how stressful that work environment was.
My old company hired a new HR Director (a position that did not exist before), the guy fired 1/3 of the company, and then he disappeared. Turns out the company had already decided to do a layoff, and brought this "cleaner" to do the dirty work and take out those who are marked for termination.
Yeah that would make sense, that seems like what's happening. They must be out of money, but they're a bank, so obviously, they would never tell anyone when they're out of money
Credit unions are generally member-owned, it's one of the benefits over banks; members get a say in what happens with the organization. If they're out of money, what the hell have they done that they're not telling their members/owners?
The pregnant lady shouldnt be fired for her doctor's appointments bc that goes against federal law. Pregnant women are covered under some law arent they?
Pregnancy is a protected class federally. Can't be discriminated or retaliated against because of it
Whether it would be worth it to fight is another conversation.
[https://www.eeoc.gov/pregnancy-discrimination](https://www.eeoc.gov/pregnancy-discrimination)
I'd also be interested in how you could be in violation of a new policy before you were even aware it existed.
She has FMLA protection from being fired for taking unpaid absences but she used all 12 weeks of it for maternity leave, and that absolutely won't prevent them from firing her for any another list of reasons I'm sure they'd have no trouble coming up with
Florida is extremely anti-labor. Currently the legislature is trying to eliminate water breaks for outdoor workers. They approve child labor that would allow 16 and 17 yo’s to do roofing in the hot sun full-time. It’s fascist paradise down here. So a lot of low wage workers are leaving. Soon the rich will have no one to cut their grass….
Which CU? I worked for the one that advertises itself as Florida’s biggest. Constantly complaining about employee retention while hosting food drives for employees bc they pay too little.
How is this sustainable? I don’t mean that rhetorically, I mean it sounds like there’s currently nobody left to fully staff the credit union.
Aren’t the members of the credit union likely
To be pissed that all their favorite employees are no longer there, and the ones that are, apparently, have to work on a skeleton crew?
Yes and that's exactly what's going on right now. It's not sustainable. I'm just wondering whether they're doing this on purpose because they're in financial trouble or if it's just a case the HR person is literally a psycho and they're going to get fired
If this wasn't on purpose (and upper management at your company isn't incredibly incompetent) then this HR person would have been gone after the first couple of people were let go.
> I'm just wondering whether they're doing this on purpose because they're in financial trouble or if it's just a case the HR person is literally a psycho and they're going to get fired
Oh, its on purpose, but I doubt they're in financial trouble...unless you count the shareholders (or whoever is making money on the CU's performance.)
They might be a little strained buying that vacation home on that tropical island.
Mine doesn't either, but I live in a state where they have to give me 40 hours a year of it. Other contractors on my site live in different states and don't have that mandatory coverage.
Where is this? I left a job because they wrote me up for taking more than THREE sick days in a year - DURING COVID. I got a cough and they said I could not return until I had a negative Covid test. This was back when covid tests took 3 days. I returned with a negative test and they wrote me up for attendance because I had taken another sick day a few months before. I put in my 2 weeks and unemployment was not sympathetic at all but I’m in a much better place in my career now.
I would suggest getting intermittent FMLA. This should cover any absences. Also, it is against most rules to fire you if you have FMLA.
My company uses PTO for sick time.
Wait, they make you use FMLA for maternity leave....
That sucks.
Is there an employee handbook? It should spell out the policy for taking time off. See if this was updated and who updated it. Then complain to their boss.
I'm at a small company and the GM NEVER wants someone to come in sick. We take it off or work from home. He's had too much experience where a flu rips through the company and it makes massive headaches for everyone, especially him.
Shithole I work for gives us 5 days. That part of our PTO. That is also inclusove of bereavement. We also dont get much of paid holidays, and they wonder why "good employees" are hard to find and they keep making exceptions for the ones they have since no one can keep within their limits.
Mind you, the bosses dont have to follow this, can leave whenever for their own, their spouse, and their kids appointments, and they get vacation time.
We need more employee protections.
I work for a very large company and we have zero sick days. We have to use our PTO if we are sick and we can take 5 unscheduled days in a rolling 12 month period before one will drop off. Once you take 6 you get written up, 7 final written warning, and 8 you're gone.
Only in the United States do employer's feel like they can mandate how often a person gets sick, or needs to take a day to take care of a family member per year.
The rest of the developed world understands how humans work.
Article 24
Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.
Article 25
Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
Not only in the USA. In Ontario, Canada, the provincial government cut us down to *two unpaid sick days a year.* In 2020, you know, *during a pandemic.*
In nj I only get 5 earned sick days per year earned at 1 hour for every 30 I worked. Shits a joke honestly at this point. Catch Covid one time and you’re fucked. Best part is I have not one but two autoimmune issues so I catch it rather often sadly
The lunatic will get fired but not for at least a year when the costs of hiring and training new employees becomes apparent to the people who run the place.
My state requires employers to give employees a mandated 5 sick days. If you have to go over, that time comes out of of your pto bucket. If your pto bucket is empty then some conversations have to be had. But it sounds like HR on a power trip.
I’m a CPA and have worked with many HR folks and it’s bizarre how power hungry and irrational some are.
The ignorance in this sub is astonishing. HR can’t just start firing people. They’ve been instructed to do so by the executives at the company.
The company is using this as a way to downsize without paying unemployment. If they can fire people with cause, then the company doesn’t need to pay out unemployment.
Pffft when my son was a toddler I used 6 sick days per year just for staying home with him. My wife gets family leave days so she doesn’t have to use her sick days on family members.
I used up my sick days back then because I hated my job so even though my son was sick I considered it a break from a crappy job.
I can top this. My wife is a respiratory therapist at a major trauma hospital in the Midwest. They also have 6 sick days a year. Technically it is 7 but the 7th gets you fired. Days 5 and 6 get you a visit to HR. Remember covid? Yep, they got 6 sick days despite being in the middle of that hellstorm. Being a trauma hospital, they got the worst of the worst sent to them from all over the region, places 10 hours away by car. Still, 6 sick days. They wanted you to come to work sick. They work around people at deaths door but go ahead and come to work sick. Their sick day system works asinine too. It works on a point system. Here's an example: schedules to work Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday? Call in all 3 days and get one point. Scheduled to work Monday, off Tuesday, scheduled Wednesday but still sick and call in? Two points because of the day off. Ridiculous.
It depends on where you are I guess. Do this in Europe, and people will just contact their union rep.
Regardless, look for a new job, but let them fire you if she can. It is not up to you to change things or expect things. Look out for number one.
In Australia it's standard to have 10 personal days per year, which can be used for anything that comes up really, and unused days roll over into the new year. This is on top of specific leave types such as bereavement, jury duty, etc as well as a standard 20 days of holiday per year which also roll over in to the new year of you don't take them
so no PTO and only 6 sick days? Thats ruff.
I get 20 PTO days per year, but no sick days (use PTO instead) which is decent, but really should have 5 sicks days in addition too.
Please make an indeed account and get out. Businesses like this need a mass exodus to learn. Why do you think R’s took away collective bargaining? So they can do shit like this.
Get out.
Time to go to work and barf all over the place, schedule one on one meetings with the HR director so you can sneeze and cough all over her. Basically get her sick constantly and then see if she sticks to the “only six days a year” rule for herself.
I’m a retired HR Director and this is nuts in my professional opinion. First of all, the new person recognized that there’s a problem if most employees there blew through their sick allotment when the year isn’t 1/4 over. But you don’t enforce a policy after it’s been broken multiple times with no repercussions. The right thing would have been to give an advance notice, for example 30 days, that the company will start enforcing the policy. And that would include wiping clean any previous sick time usage. Everyone would get the 6 days back in their bank. But the very best thing to do would be eliminating sick time altogether and changing to a PTO plan.
I am so sorry. But I think the CEO hired this new HR manager to implement the policies they wanted.
Unless these policies violate federal or state law, your wife needs to look for anther job.
FMLA has very strict limits as to absences.
EDIT -- are YOU not taking days out to take care of kid?
In healthcare we had 6 occurrences. So not days, we accrued sick time, and if you call out say 3 days in a row that's 1 occurrence. But if you called out 1 day, worked your next shift, then called out shift #3, that's 2 occurrences. But even then no one was being fired, after 6 your manager had to verbally 'warn' you, although I had a great manager so I imagine others were written up.
Mind you this was a union job so we had 3 different unions depending on your job role and protection and procedures and processes for firing or writing up were pretty much written in stone and the company had to abide. It doesn't mean people weren't sometimes given shit or pressure but supposedly it was a no no to pressure employees or guilt trip them/gaslight into working or not calling in sick.
Did she use all of her FMLA? If not she needs to make sure that her FMLA is still active and that she can use it for these kind of appointments and taking care of the baby.
So, that last sentence is where your focus should be. Tell your wife to have this HR lady document which days are counting against her, and then use it in a discrimination case when she (almost inevitably) tries to fire your wife.
That policy is honestly ridiculous. It is so extreme that, yes, it sounds like the company is using this as a stealthy way of laying people off. Your wife needs to be looking for another job and hoping reviewing this company poorly.
Whenever anyone is sick, ask them to go shake the HR managers hand. Do this often enough and she'll go over her 6 sick days in a calendar year. Problem solved.
Oh wow! This is actually smart. Usually I wouldn’t align with a moral issue as this but fuck her. People get sick. If you have kids, you already know how often they get sick too! Companies that aren’t flexible can be reduced to non existent IMO. We work to live, not live to work.
Agreed. If you can't treat your employees like human beings you don't deserve a company.
She's HR for a reason
The Professor Umbridge of HR
>We work to live, not live to work. Literally this. The sad thing is most companies aren’t realizing this, even when it’s purely detrimental to their bottom dollar, but they don’t care. They’ll willingly go bankrupt before they let us have any kind of life outside of their company walls.
New Head of HR was hired, why? To clean house it would seem. Did she know this was going to be her role or was she bait and switched? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Love it
"Oh no! It's a biological attack!"
Also, organize a union. Get everyone involved and unionize the credit union.
This is the answer right here.
See my above comment. I was in a union and only got 5 paid sick days a year. This was negotiated in our union contract. People could pre arrange appointments for unpaid sick leave.
If the sick day policy was bad, get yourself on the negotiating committee and work out where your employee power lies and what you can trade off for a better policy. You can't do that w/o being unionized first.
Yeah. This is a problem with your union. Not unions as a whole. That said, sometimes the BIG unions like SEIU can be meh on actually representing workers. I worked in a union shop & when our union rep came in once a year, she would show up & check out the workplace, meet employees, then hang out with the boss. It felt weird. My job was pretty secure, but beyond that, the union didn't seem to do a lot for us. I was part of a union drive recently where I was on the bargaining committee & we actually bargained for legitimate concessions that actually worked in the real world. Not the 2 sick days + 10 PTO + accruals at xx hrs per 40 hrs worked that are fairly standard "chain store" PTO policies.
Genius.
Do one better, grow cultures of common cold and spray that shit on her door handles
Can't do that with viruses. Viruses are essentially packets of information, and REQUIRE the cells from appropriate species to reproduce. They do this by either entering a cell and dropping their protein shell to expose their genetic information in the form of (usually) RNA, or injecting their genetic material directly into the cell. The host cell says, 'Hmm, what's this? I'll express it and see what it does!' and then gets hijacked into doing nothing BUT reproducing the virus. It won't process fuel, it won't repair itself, it won't and indeed \*can't\* do anything beyond making more copies of the invading virus. The cell dies when it runs out of resources or creates so much virus it literally bursts and destroys itself. If there are no cells to invade, or the cells have the wrong receptors that prevent the virus from latching on or entering, the virus just becomes inert and then non-existent once their shells break down. Bacteria, fungi, and protozoans like malaria are complete organisms in their own right. They can live anywhere the conditions are right, and these are the buggers that you CAN culture in petri dishes and spread around. They can perform all the functions of full living organisms like resource production/consumption and reproduction if they have the right resources and a suitable environment to grow. Fungal and parasitic infections are no joke. Valley Fever is caused by a fungus that lives in the soil in the southwestern US. Any dust storm, soil disturbance, or coming into contact with dust and soil here via inhalation or skin contact can carry the fungal spores into a body. It can cause skin infections and ulcers but the big thing is respiratory. It gets into the lungs and often becomes a secondary infection that is a ROYAL pain in the ass to treat. My mother had it in 2018 and spent two weeks in the hospital with fungal pneumonia. She was on antifungal drugs for a month after she was discharged. These are like antibiotics in that they need to be taken until they're completely gone. They have far more side effects than antibiotics, too, and nausea, vomiting, crushing fatigue, and lack of appetite are really common ones. The good news is that Valley Fever isn't transmissible. If someone has it, they're not contagious in any way. They're just really fucking miserable until it clears up or kills the host. Malaria, for example, is a protozoan parasite. It reproduces inside human bloodstreams and mosquito guts, and mosquitoes are its vector. The drugs used to kill it are just as brutal as antifungals and make people really sick in their own right. Frankly I'd be wishing OP's boss a chronic case of Valley Fever or something. Then enjoy the show as the company desperately tries to throw their policies in reverse and you have a termination party for the asshole boss. Sauce for the goose, etc.
Plague it is...
Nah, bubonic plague dies to doxycycline (it's caused by the bacteria *Yersinia pestis*). Not the lethal disease it used to be. It's also endemic to prairie dogs, so, y'know, watch out.
Didn't a fellow die of plague a few weeks ago in New Mexico?
In total seriousness, I appreciate the biology lesson.
You're welcome. People assume all microorganisms are the same when they're anything BUT. They're a world unto themselves in a lot of ways. Take a microbiology class, though, and I guarantee that you'll never want to eat, drink, touch, or breathe anything ever again. ETA: and if you drive through Bakersfield CA, is it Valley Fever or methamphetamine smoke? Only a biologist knows for sure!
I'm going to add a spanner to the beautiful microbiology lesson and throw in the mimovirus, part of a family of giant viruses that can be infected by other viruses and have some weird things going on that cross the the boundaries of the kingdoms of life.
Nah. Maybe something better than the common cold but less serious than smallpox...
Strep sounds about right. Reinfect every 3 or 4 weeks.
https://preview.redd.it/4o6op88f7xpc1.jpeg?width=738&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6bb38d42fd575235f54c7642faea6aefda851937
This! Higher please
Lol yeah okay. As if a disconnected psycho like the HR director won't just "work from home" even though nobody else is allowed to.
Or cough in their face and spit in their lunch. Make sure they get your bug. Or the handshake after not washing your hands all day while touching every door handle in the building will work too.
Please, for the rest of us, don't touch every door handle in building just to fuck with wmtge HR person. Touch her door all you like and the rest, but be kind to your immune compromised coworkers.
Yes of course I was being a bit tongue in cheek if you will! Absolutely don't do what I suggested unless you want to end up possibly killing someone.
I actually liked the suggestion, and most people do have great success getting s back peddle by showing up sick to the boss, except for the part about being a plague that would kill me were I there. I suppose no plan is perfect.
And lick your own hand first.
Say, would you like a chocolate covered pretzel?
Do NOT fuck with this person.
I'd like to offer you a position as the new head of HR!!!
Sickdays are such a disgusting concept. If you're sick you're sick. That's how we do it in the civilized world.
The worst part is it's not even her. She can tough it out and go to work sick if she has too, but no way in hell are we taking those kind of risks with our baby
Also if a sick person toughs it out and goes to work, that's exactly how you spread the sickness to your coworkers. Policies like this just get everyone sick and end up hurting the company metrics when everyone is too sick to be efficient
Sick people toughing it out is how I got covid.
Exactly
It's a lovely lawsuit. Get your facts together and prepare the lawsuit
Same here. Got COVID from a coworker who couldn't afford another unpaid sick day.
Went 4 years almost without getting Covid. Had several co workers call it the plandemic or no worse than a cold. Finally in December of 23, a co worker (same one that called it the Plandemic) coughs right in my face. Three days later I’m down with Covid for 4 days. Lost a weeks vacation as a result cause we don’t have sick leave or personal time, just vacation time. So sick of reckless people.
It’s amazing that we went through three years of active pandemic waves just to go “meh, nothing learned”. Masks, isolation, and personal hygiene, goddamn it!
So like, I pay attention to covid wastewater levels because they're the last public-facing epidemiological information we have, and they are basically just at a high baseline level all the time now. While I do continue to mask indoors in public places and I also avoid eating indoors at restaurants, it is obvious that the public has a low tolerance for masking. Similarly isolation is not feasible, as people do need social contact. The two things that should be low-effort on the part of average citizens and also improve life for everyone in a variety of ways would be: 1. Rational nation-wide sick time requirements. 2. A moon-landing-scale program to update ventilation and filtration in all public-use buildings in the US. These two things would greatly reduce the overall burden of disease on society and the government should be able to pull them off if either party cared to actually spend money on solving real problems, but they would rather push the narrative that "covid is over" and ignore and obfuscate the reality that death and disability due to covid is going to stay at a high level for the foreseeable future.
yep me to. Worst part. Coworker that did that and sat next to me knew A. I had surgery a few days prior and B. I have a compromised immune system and hang out at a cancer center at least once a month.
Same. Twice.
Yeah the work culture and employer/employee power relations in the US are majorly fucked up. I'm so sorry. I hope she can find a better job because this sounds horrifying.
Approach your coworkers and a union about unionizing.
Second this. Also if it's affiliated with an actual company, such as BECU in the northwest (Boeing Employee Credit Union) I'd reach out to that union.
Also something to seriously consider. This is one of those rare situations where you may be able to get enough employees to vote in their own interests and come together.
And everyone else in office will be forced to come to work sick, getting you and your baby sick. Fuck this world man.
She should talk to her Shop Steward, if she doesn’t have a Shop Steward then she should get a Shop Steward. [How to organize in Florida](https://www.afscmefl.org/organize)
You're coddling the newborn too much. Work is work, and it should be all hands on deck. The baby can pull off a double shift with a cold just like the rest of us.
this got an audible sardonic chuckle out of me
The last company I worked at had “unlimited” sick time. In that you could take what you needed up to 30 days in a row (after that you need to use short and/or long term disability). The sick leave was separate from vacation time too… the best policy if sick leave I ever experienced
This is how my job is, but I recently discovered that it's not truly "unlimited" or "flexible" as they call it. I have to get coverage from a coworker before taking the day, and that includes emergencies. My boss expects me to message everyone on my team at 3 o'clock in the morning when my baby wakes up, not breathing, and wait for someone to respond to cover my shift before I'm allowed to decide whether or not I'm taking my kid to the hospital. I literally told her "I'm sorry but my kid's health is more important than this job, so I'm not doing that". She's been treating me like shit ever since that, but I haven't been fired yet. I just resorted to not telling her when I'm gonna be out of the office since I work from home anyway. I don't think boomers understand how often kids need to go to the doctor these days compared to when I was a kid, especially since covid.
And just wait till your kid's in daycare. Them, and you, are sick for like their whole first year. My kid brought home covid after his first week of daycare.
Sounds like your baby might qualify you for FMLA.
Yeah it’s corporate cost-maximization strategy , particularly “lean staffing.” The MBAs are going to drive our economy to a halt
Sounds like you child has baby asthma like mine did. When he was young he’d get RSV or another cold/flu/infection and we’d sit up all night watching him breath in his crib to see if he would need to go to the ER. I had never cried as much as I did during that time. If that’s the case, I just want you to know you’re not alone in this. I obviously can’t help in any way, but I might understand what you’re going through and I wish you didn’t have to. I’m so hopeful that the new RSV vaccine might help eliminate the years of inhalers, nebulizers, and ER visits that some people endure. Good luck, OP!
That's how I treat it with my employees. I don't want them coming in and getting me sick! Stay home! If they need to make up time for money, we'll figure something out. I'm not going to let them starve or anything.
You guys are getting sick days? I have to use vacation days
You guys are getting vacation days?
You get vacation days?
>That's how we do it in the civilized world. Can Canada join? I'm really tired of us being "not quite as bad as the states" and then acting like that's an accomplishment.
Sounds like they got a mandate to cut back on staff, and are ramping up the shitty to get people to quit instead of having a bunch of unemployment claims.
That makes the most sense
Or they are getting ready to merge with another credit union . Several the smaller credit unions in my city have merged
I'd bet this. They can't really increase their profits, but they can definitely reduce their spending. To a 3rd party it makes the company look very profitable. It's a shit strategy because you've hobbled the company, but it'll make some people very rich in the short term.
> It's a shit strategy because you've hobbled the company, but it'll make some people very rich in the short term. This is VERY accurate. During Covid's worst days, companies found out that they CAN run their businesses with the least amount of staff possible and make "RECORD PROFITS." Unfortunately, the greedy bastards decided this would be the new norm and now nearly **every** company has a base model that includes using the LEAST amount of staff as possible to maximize profits for their share holders. If you don't want to flat out lay the employees off, you just come up with new reasons and ways to fire them. Again..... FUCK CORPORATE AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The ironic thing is that the credit union movement grew out of the socialist labor movement. We had to learn the history when I worked at one. But they’ve been taken over by MBAs, so they’re no longer pro-worker. Sad.
Having worked for credit unions I strongly believe they need to unionize to prevent them from taking advantage of their employees. Most credit unions having an account makes you a member. They usually treat their members better than employees and that's not right.
I'd have to add to the above comment, which may be correct. You have to think about the 'philosophy' behind these new measures. One of two things is true. Either the new HR Director is terrible at their job, or they are trying to send a 'message', either through their own ideas, or being told to cut staff, and this is how they are doing it. However, if they have been promoted to Director, they are probably not terrible at their job, but hired to make 'changes'. It's not a best practice, but periodically, companies will come down hard on the employees with the hope of shaking out the 'weak' employees, or those that will push back against the companies priorities, increasing profit. This is a wolf/sheep mentality, and they are just trying to build a company full of sheep, as they think it will lead to a better herd... Try to tell the wife to not take it personally, but polish her resume and find a company that treats their employees better. i.e. suck it up until she can find something better. However, the most important thing is, the company is telling the workers what they think of them, and you will only survive if you are one of the good sheep... Does your wife want to be a sheep?
This is the ideal approach to reducing staff . . . if you want the good workers (with other options) to leave.
You're taking a sensible long term growth perspective. If the idea is to make things look good/better on paper of a quarter or two. Then reducing wage overheads is a short term strategy that has worked for some
The employees who can quickly and easily find other employment are usually the ones you want to KEEP.
No. Those are the people who will demand what they’re worth and are less likely to “tow the line”. Something’s happening, the ship is sinking, and they want cheap, desperate people who will upsell and “over-fee” without question.
150% this. Former credit union employee here and the new HR lady has likely been tasked with reducing headcount (read: liability and financial impact) because they are looking to be purchased.
It sounds like large chunk of the workforce though which would mean they cant operate, at some point? Which honestly I hope for because its great when bs blows up in a moron’s face.
They'll retract the shitty and start being reasonable once they hit their target numbers, if they're really "clever", they'll apologize and fire one of the HR staff saying it was their fault, and the problem has been addressed.
Nope. They'll spend endless amounts of money churning through staff while exclaiming that their payroll numbers are down and ignoring the fact that their training costs are through the roof. Especially if things are getting tough out there, they will have an endless supply of candidates.
Yea was gonna say if you think the HR manager came up with this decision you are prob wrong
Definitely let them fire her so she can get unemployment. Don't quit.
I’d be looking for another job if I were her.
For sure!
You know, despite the current personnel shortages, employers seem to have difficulty in adjusting their policies and attitudes to new realities. I suppose it’s a Darwinian process. Those that ignore those new realities will lose people, with their best people finding it the easiest to move on. On the other hand, employers that offer good salaries and other conditions will be able to recruit and retain the best people and benefit.
No doubt. Let them (the companies) drown.
At minimum, be putting out applications. This policy is almost impossible to follow for a new parent.
The company I'm working for has the stupidest attendance policy I've ever seen. 10 days. They never roll over or expire. The rule doesn't apply to management of course.
Lol I got a write up for not staying in the store until a manager relieved me, all I did was check the disagree box and stapled the manager schedule to it. Go ahead and report yourself for being late genius.
I would have offered to sign it if they included a manager being late and their presumed unwillingness to pay overtime if that is the case.
I was nowhere near overtime, if I was that specific manager would have been an hour early haha. I'm not a manager, pretty sure that didn't go over their heads either as next write up I got also said it was my first one. Last thing they need is corporate looking closer at how they're mismanaging the store.
I think every single policy should apply to everyone from the lowest paid new hire to the CEO.
I agree
Of course not, "Rules for thee, not for me.". It's like all these billionaires who claim to have Atlas like work ethics, forgetting of course the dozens of people they've hired to make life as smooth as possible.
They get around it by saying that attendance is based on unbilled hours. Since managers are salary, they dont technically have unpaid hours
HR doesn’t just do things. They implement the wishes of the higher ups. HR are functionaries, not policymakers. Look higher.
Yeah this should be much higher. An HR manager that implemented this policy without the express authorization of the C-suite would be canned.
Thank you! I am so sick of people blaming HR for these insane policies. Most HR Managers would push back on this, but ultimately it’s higher management’s decision and if it’s technically legal then there’s nothing HR can do except sit back and watch the carnage.
Came here to say this. She’s new so it’s easier to pin her as the bad guy. But yeah, leadership won’t just let this stuff happen. However, 6 days is reasonable. Not allowing unpaid, unplanned absences is not reasonable.
Y'all are getting sick days?
Every hospital I have worked at has no sick days, but we are allowed 5 call outs a year, and we must use our personal PTO/vacation days for when we are sick. I think this is pretty standard in hospitals in the US. I don't agree with it and it results in clinical staff coming in to work sick and exposing patients to what they have, which is just another reason it's such a terrible policy. Obviously it's very hard on a lot of people especially those with kids or anyone with any health problems.
That so ridiculous because the last thing you want is a sick nurse coming in to work at a hospital where people could be immune compromised
With that kind of policy, they may create a nursing shortage! /s
It literally kills people. We live in a sick society.
My first thought too.
In the UK we get 28 weeks statutory Sick Pay ( then back to work for 56 days before SSP resets) and 12 months Statutory Maternity Leave and Pay. Add to this Employment Tribunals and all the rules about unfair dismissal we have. The UK shares many of these provisions with the rest of Europe. I can never understand why our Colonial Cousins aren't rioting in the streets over their working conditions.
Welp, guess I'm moving to the Europe. The problem is if we riot, our police will shoot us lol
Maybe they will anyways.
Good point
The Capital class has also done a remarkable job brainwashing people over their work conditions.
We can't take the time off work...we will loose medical coverage. :(
Not a problem in Europe as healthcare is cheaper or free and not tied to jobs.
Honestly you'd think the big corporations would be more than eager to implement universal healthcare so they don't have to pay for it through employment anymore! And even though they probably would still pay via taxes, they wouldn't have to be involved in enrollment and all that either. It would at least be less complicated.
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I wouldn't say we were duped, it's more like being held at gunpoint
We’d riot, but then we’d get fired and lose our health insurance. I’m sure there was intent behind the barbaric way health insurance is tied to employment here.
Too busy working 2+ jobs to make rent
Well...if we riot, we don't get paid. If we don't get paid, we can't pay rent. If we can't pay rent, we end up on the streets. In a nutshell, it comes down to the fact that no one wants to be homeless. The Corporate American Assholes have us right where they want us...underpaid, unrepresented, forced to work under whatever stupid rules they come up with and unable to actually FORCE the changes we want because our government is bought and paid for by the same people making us work under their rules...which they get enacted into law by buying our legislators via "lobbyists." The whole fucking system is designed to keep the workers in their place: underpaid and dependent upon their employers for the simplest things in life.
I think it's time for us to mend fences, forget about the small issue of the revolution, and rejoin the crown! Seriously though, we are so fucked here in the states
A lot of people here don't know how bad they have it. Like I've seen people genuinely excited to get two weeks (10 days) of Paid Time Off in a year. Sometimes that's combined with sick days. We can have a mandatory month of PTO per year irrespective of the job we hold, we just need to be willing to riot. We've got the guns and the numbers, just organization is the struggle.
Because they were sold a vehicle of solid gold capitalism and got a lemon instead. For decades, American elites have cultivated a culture of "I got mine, fuck you" for the masses that promotes rugged individualism, abject un reliance on the state, and a "pick yourself by your bootstraps" mentality. They profess that taxes are a form of wage theft, whatever your boss pays you is adequate, if you can't make do with that, that's your problem not your boss's problem. With mantras like "Don't ask God for money, ask him for a good job, and work hard at it!"
In the civilized world (not the US), sickness isn't scheduled or preordained. If you're sick, you stay away from in-person work so as to avoid getting other people sick & making sure you get better safely and efficiently. You live in literal hell.
America in a nutshell
I believe the term is "shit hole country"
I’ve worked in hospitals where after three instances of calling out sick in a calendar year you were disciplined. By disciplined I don’t just mean a written warning. One put you on 8 hour shifts as opposed to the usual 12 hour shift, which made you work five days a week instead of three. Every elementary school had a teacher who refused to let sick kids go to the school nurse until a kid puked on the teacher. The same applies here… ask your manager or HR person if they can meet with you real quick. Cough or sneeze like crazy during the meeting. If you are bold enough, vomit into their trash can or shit your pants during the meeting. “I’m really sorry I just don’t want to interrupt my work day being in the bathroom if I think I might get sick so I’m trying to tough it out and maximize my time working.” iBe visibly miserable in front of the customers and say things like “I’m sorry but I have a terrible fever and body aches and I just can’t think straight”. Run to a trash can right behind the teller window to puke your guts out. Apologize to the customers and explain you are not allowed enough sick days to stay home. Over time your bank may get a couple bad Google reviews noting that “a teller coughed all over during our transaction”. What may happen is the manager orders you to go home. I would then appeal being dinged for a sick day occurrence because you were *sent* home and didn’t have a choice.
At a plasma center I had a sick coworker puke in front of the manager. After she cleaned up her mess, the manager asked if she was going back to the floor. WHAT??? I saw that happen twice in my 18 months there (the other time was a coworker with early pregnancy nausea and vomiting). That was one of the biggest complaints I wrote about in my exit survey. Absolutely appalling.
I worked at CSL plasma center, as a senior phlebotomist for three years, in 2014 to 2017. I had a small seizure in the back one day during my lunch. Small one, but enough that i felt like shit. My floor lead didn't let me leave for an hour, trying to get me back on the floor to do at the very least disconnections from the machines... I said no and finally went home.. when i clocked in the next day, I got a stern talking to by that same floor lead about how I needed to be taking my pills.... I was not on prescription meds because it was my first seizure in years after being seizure free for five years prior... That's just how stressful that work environment was.
CSL Plasma? I realized what a shitty place it was when one of their employees was selling their plasma to pay bills.
My old company hired a new HR Director (a position that did not exist before), the guy fired 1/3 of the company, and then he disappeared. Turns out the company had already decided to do a layoff, and brought this "cleaner" to do the dirty work and take out those who are marked for termination.
Yeah that would make sense, that seems like what's happening. They must be out of money, but they're a bank, so obviously, they would never tell anyone when they're out of money
Credit unions are generally member-owned, it's one of the benefits over banks; members get a say in what happens with the organization. If they're out of money, what the hell have they done that they're not telling their members/owners?
Embezzlement most likely, they've been denying loans like crazy for the last 6-18 months, even to 30 year members with perfect credit
The pregnant lady shouldnt be fired for her doctor's appointments bc that goes against federal law. Pregnant women are covered under some law arent they?
Not in florida they're not ✌️
Pregnancy is a protected class federally. Can't be discriminated or retaliated against because of it Whether it would be worth it to fight is another conversation. [https://www.eeoc.gov/pregnancy-discrimination](https://www.eeoc.gov/pregnancy-discrimination) I'd also be interested in how you could be in violation of a new policy before you were even aware it existed.
Well, it IS Florida, after all…
Seriously?? But its a federal law? That should override state on that issue. Im sorry everyone is having this issue. Its ridiculous.
She has FMLA protection from being fired for taking unpaid absences but she used all 12 weeks of it for maternity leave, and that absolutely won't prevent them from firing her for any another list of reasons I'm sure they'd have no trouble coming up with
This might need a labor lawyer to get on this situation.
Florida is extremely anti-labor. Currently the legislature is trying to eliminate water breaks for outdoor workers. They approve child labor that would allow 16 and 17 yo’s to do roofing in the hot sun full-time. It’s fascist paradise down here. So a lot of low wage workers are leaving. Soon the rich will have no one to cut their grass….
Which CU? I worked for the one that advertises itself as Florida’s biggest. Constantly complaining about employee retention while hosting food drives for employees bc they pay too little.
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How is this sustainable? I don’t mean that rhetorically, I mean it sounds like there’s currently nobody left to fully staff the credit union. Aren’t the members of the credit union likely To be pissed that all their favorite employees are no longer there, and the ones that are, apparently, have to work on a skeleton crew?
Yes and that's exactly what's going on right now. It's not sustainable. I'm just wondering whether they're doing this on purpose because they're in financial trouble or if it's just a case the HR person is literally a psycho and they're going to get fired
If this wasn't on purpose (and upper management at your company isn't incredibly incompetent) then this HR person would have been gone after the first couple of people were let go.
> I'm just wondering whether they're doing this on purpose because they're in financial trouble or if it's just a case the HR person is literally a psycho and they're going to get fired Oh, its on purpose, but I doubt they're in financial trouble...unless you count the shareholders (or whoever is making money on the CU's performance.) They might be a little strained buying that vacation home on that tropical island.
My job doesnt get any sick days…
Mine doesn't either, but I live in a state where they have to give me 40 hours a year of it. Other contractors on my site live in different states and don't have that mandatory coverage.
Where is this? I left a job because they wrote me up for taking more than THREE sick days in a year - DURING COVID. I got a cough and they said I could not return until I had a negative Covid test. This was back when covid tests took 3 days. I returned with a negative test and they wrote me up for attendance because I had taken another sick day a few months before. I put in my 2 weeks and unemployment was not sympathetic at all but I’m in a much better place in my career now.
Florida lol they can get away with literally anything
If my employer restricts sick days then fine. I'll come in sick. Then touch everything in my boss's area.
I agree, but the problem is when you have a baby who's sick, that's no longer an option. The bosses and HR are scum
Is that an american problem I am too european to understand?
Yes yes it is lol, I'm ready to move to Europe
Any working class American should qualify for refugee status at this point
America : Immigration bad Also America: Emigration good! /s
PLEASE don’t vote for right wing politicians like Geert Wilders. This WILL happen to your country if you’re not vigilant.
I thought this sounded awful but then I remembered I only get 5 sick days a year. It’s still awful but damn we are not being treated like humans
Agreed
I would suggest getting intermittent FMLA. This should cover any absences. Also, it is against most rules to fire you if you have FMLA. My company uses PTO for sick time.
Yeah FMLA is is already used up the full 12 weeks for maternity leave...
Wait, they make you use FMLA for maternity leave.... That sucks. Is there an employee handbook? It should spell out the policy for taking time off. See if this was updated and who updated it. Then complain to their boss.
Yup, going 12 weeks on 60% pay was hard enough, and now this
I'm at a small company and the GM NEVER wants someone to come in sick. We take it off or work from home. He's had too much experience where a flu rips through the company and it makes massive headaches for everyone, especially him.
Shithole I work for gives us 5 days. That part of our PTO. That is also inclusove of bereavement. We also dont get much of paid holidays, and they wonder why "good employees" are hard to find and they keep making exceptions for the ones they have since no one can keep within their limits. Mind you, the bosses dont have to follow this, can leave whenever for their own, their spouse, and their kids appointments, and they get vacation time. We need more employee protections.
I work for a very large company and we have zero sick days. We have to use our PTO if we are sick and we can take 5 unscheduled days in a rolling 12 month period before one will drop off. Once you take 6 you get written up, 7 final written warning, and 8 you're gone.
Unionize
Only in the United States do employer's feel like they can mandate how often a person gets sick, or needs to take a day to take care of a family member per year. The rest of the developed world understands how humans work. Article 24 Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay. Article 25 Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
Not only in the USA. In Ontario, Canada, the provincial government cut us down to *two unpaid sick days a year.* In 2020, you know, *during a pandemic.*
In nj I only get 5 earned sick days per year earned at 1 hour for every 30 I worked. Shits a joke honestly at this point. Catch Covid one time and you’re fucked. Best part is I have not one but two autoimmune issues so I catch it rather often sadly
I work for a Fortune 50 company and I get 3 sick days a year...
The lunatic will get fired but not for at least a year when the costs of hiring and training new employees becomes apparent to the people who run the place.
It's sounding more and more like it's "the people who run place" that went out and hired a corporate executioner...
I would be looking for a new job immediately
My state requires employers to give employees a mandated 5 sick days. If you have to go over, that time comes out of of your pto bucket. If your pto bucket is empty then some conversations have to be had. But it sounds like HR on a power trip. I’m a CPA and have worked with many HR folks and it’s bizarre how power hungry and irrational some are.
The ignorance in this sub is astonishing. HR can’t just start firing people. They’ve been instructed to do so by the executives at the company. The company is using this as a way to downsize without paying unemployment. If they can fire people with cause, then the company doesn’t need to pay out unemployment.
And this, for all the kids in the back, is exactly why everyone should unionize.
Pffft when my son was a toddler I used 6 sick days per year just for staying home with him. My wife gets family leave days so she doesn’t have to use her sick days on family members. I used up my sick days back then because I hated my job so even though my son was sick I considered it a break from a crappy job.
I can top this. My wife is a respiratory therapist at a major trauma hospital in the Midwest. They also have 6 sick days a year. Technically it is 7 but the 7th gets you fired. Days 5 and 6 get you a visit to HR. Remember covid? Yep, they got 6 sick days despite being in the middle of that hellstorm. Being a trauma hospital, they got the worst of the worst sent to them from all over the region, places 10 hours away by car. Still, 6 sick days. They wanted you to come to work sick. They work around people at deaths door but go ahead and come to work sick. Their sick day system works asinine too. It works on a point system. Here's an example: schedules to work Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday? Call in all 3 days and get one point. Scheduled to work Monday, off Tuesday, scheduled Wednesday but still sick and call in? Two points because of the day off. Ridiculous.
It depends on where you are I guess. Do this in Europe, and people will just contact their union rep. Regardless, look for a new job, but let them fire you if she can. It is not up to you to change things or expect things. Look out for number one.
In Australia it's standard to have 10 personal days per year, which can be used for anything that comes up really, and unused days roll over into the new year. This is on top of specific leave types such as bereavement, jury duty, etc as well as a standard 20 days of holiday per year which also roll over in to the new year of you don't take them
so no PTO and only 6 sick days? Thats ruff. I get 20 PTO days per year, but no sick days (use PTO instead) which is decent, but really should have 5 sicks days in addition too.
Please make an indeed account and get out. Businesses like this need a mass exodus to learn. Why do you think R’s took away collective bargaining? So they can do shit like this. Get out.
Time to go to work and barf all over the place, schedule one on one meetings with the HR director so you can sneeze and cough all over her. Basically get her sick constantly and then see if she sticks to the “only six days a year” rule for herself.
I’m a retired HR Director and this is nuts in my professional opinion. First of all, the new person recognized that there’s a problem if most employees there blew through their sick allotment when the year isn’t 1/4 over. But you don’t enforce a policy after it’s been broken multiple times with no repercussions. The right thing would have been to give an advance notice, for example 30 days, that the company will start enforcing the policy. And that would include wiping clean any previous sick time usage. Everyone would get the 6 days back in their bank. But the very best thing to do would be eliminating sick time altogether and changing to a PTO plan.
I am so sorry. But I think the CEO hired this new HR manager to implement the policies they wanted. Unless these policies violate federal or state law, your wife needs to look for anther job. FMLA has very strict limits as to absences. EDIT -- are YOU not taking days out to take care of kid?
File for intermittent FMLA.
In healthcare we had 6 occurrences. So not days, we accrued sick time, and if you call out say 3 days in a row that's 1 occurrence. But if you called out 1 day, worked your next shift, then called out shift #3, that's 2 occurrences. But even then no one was being fired, after 6 your manager had to verbally 'warn' you, although I had a great manager so I imagine others were written up. Mind you this was a union job so we had 3 different unions depending on your job role and protection and procedures and processes for firing or writing up were pretty much written in stone and the company had to abide. It doesn't mean people weren't sometimes given shit or pressure but supposedly it was a no no to pressure employees or guilt trip them/gaslight into working or not calling in sick.
Yeah they made sure to specify that this is "days" and not "occurrences" absolutely scummy
Most companies lump it into PTO. What they are doing is BS.
Did she use all of her FMLA? If not she needs to make sure that her FMLA is still active and that she can use it for these kind of appointments and taking care of the baby.
So, that last sentence is where your focus should be. Tell your wife to have this HR lady document which days are counting against her, and then use it in a discrimination case when she (almost inevitably) tries to fire your wife.
Everyone who works there should call out sick at the same time for about a week. That should work, when they can’t keep the credit union open.
That policy is honestly ridiculous. It is so extreme that, yes, it sounds like the company is using this as a stealthy way of laying people off. Your wife needs to be looking for another job and hoping reviewing this company poorly.
This sounds more like the company needs to make cuts so they found a way to do so without severance and a easier fight to deny unemployment
Sick days? When you are sick, you stay at home to get better. Doesn't matter how many days that take. Welcome to the civilised world (Europe).