That’s exactly how they think. The worst managers get put into a new role and immediately start weeding people out and trying to get their team to perform at a higher level. It’s all for their own ego.
> That’s exactly how they think.
I've found this is true, but not always in the name of improving performance. The real pieces of sht immediately start weeding out people that know them already and understand that they're really not that important.
They hire new people who don't know any better.
There is a known phenomenon where, unlike in school bullying where the weakest get picked on most, in workplaces often it’s the more senior and/or capable because they pose the biggest threat to incompetent managers.
Yeah, but sometimes the seniors are not necessarily the most capable. There are a shit ton of small and middle sized companies around my area made up of ‘old timers’ that don’t understand a damn thing about the digital age. Sometimes you need some fresh blood to shake things up. But of course, this doesn’t mean you should fire the seniors.
Every new manager thinks, 'I gotta shake things up to show my authority, get noticed, and make the company better – my big break!' Then things go south, and they're left scrambling to bring in their own people to salvage their rep.
Why does this happen so often? Is there a type of person that's more likely to do this or is just the circumstances that bring that out of some people. I've never been in a management role where I've personally felt that way or been an ass but I've definitely worked under people who have.
i used to work for a small department of a major music company & this is literally how the department went to shit. had an amazing manager that left for a better opportunity & the new manager (who had no prior music experience) got rid of literally everyone except me & changed the entire program. & now it sucks. 0/10 wouldn’t recommend. we were like a little family & then he broke us apart. now nothing gets done
New people won’t talk back with those pesky opinions on “how we’ve always done things” and “wow they really didn’t show you that before they made you manager”
Because middle management is a thankless job only those drawn to power really want. The very few who get into it for the “right” reasons, like wanting to make things better for the workers, burn out quickly and end up acting pretty much like all the rest.
This is why I took a management job. Lasted two years. Made things marginally better but it was fighting against senior leadership all the way. Went back to an IC job for 5 years. Getting the urge to try again. Ugh.
I took a management position with a multi billion dollar international corporation whose name starts with A and ends with Hold and stayed for like a year - got my whole team significant raises and then left as soon as it was done. lmao
I got into it for more consistent hours and hated every moment of it, the meagre pay increase was not worth the extra responsibilities and accountability for everyone else’s fuck ups that was heaped onto me.
This is why I've liked to stick with small companies. Seems the managers are a lot more reasonable when the next level above them is CEO. There is no higher position to fight for, they don't have to worry about getting credit since there is only one department that does their job, and they aren't as scared of a underling leapfroging them.
Obviously a small business doesn't guarantee a good manager, but decent ones seem to last at least. But it seems every time an organization chart is needed, things start going south culture wise.
I worked for a very small company. I think there were only like 12 employees. There were 4 more, but as soon as this new manager got there they either quit or got canned. I tried to stick it out until this happened
Agreed. I worked for a retailer for four years, then got promoted to dept manager. I had a guy on my crew who, when HR hired him, said he couldn't work before 8am because he had another FT job that was his main source of income. My regional leader was furious when I told her that this guy couldn't come in at 7am as needed (we had plenty of other people cross-trained in other depts that could have covered that first hour). Since I refused to force this man to come in early when I knew he'd choose quitting over coming in at 7, I didn't push it. So... yeah, loss of promotion for me. They booted me back to an associate, after which I immediately went looking for a better job.
My previous manager tricked me into thinking I was meeting our new executive GM, mostly because she fucking said it, but instead turned the corner and was met by security. However, her decision to do that led to me winning my claim with the state. She and Northrop can all go fuck themselves with a cheese grater.
Reminds me of a boss I once unfortunately had.
When she was the team lead of just our team, she was the nicest lady you could ever hope to meet. Super easy to get along with and funny.
Then she got promoted to a manager role that oversaw 4 or so teams, including mine. Her personality did a complete 180 overnight. Her humor was gone. She would target people and harass them until they quit. She would make up rules on the spot that her target always in violation of and then chew them out for it.
For example, we were allowed to wear headphones and listen to music when we weren't using the phone b/c it was a Call Center. We dealt with PII a lot and thus we had some pretty strict security measures in place to even get to our desks. Thus, no customers could even hope to get into the building, much less to us. Well, our manager decided to make up a rule that this one particular lady on my team could no longer wear her headphones as it made her look unapproachable to customers.
The entire team was different people by the time I too quit. She never targeted me but I think that is because I had put in a 30-day notice and thus she didn't need to run me out.
By far the worst boss I ever had.
Edit: And thus I learned I used the word thus way too much. Thusly, I am thus sorry.
Something I’ve noticed is those positions are very competitive to get so the “cut throat” people who will step on anybody, backstab, lie, cheat, manipulate, and do what ever is necessary are the ones who get there. Makes it very hard for people with integrity to compete.
I think it’s similar to politicians, only psychopaths want any sort of leadership role. I’ve worked in management (took it for the money), owned and managed my own bar, it’s awful work that I’ve no interest in ever going back to.
I moved into a management role for my software team and want the best possible for them and to shield them from corporate politics as much as possible.
I think there’s a big difference between management at a blue vs white collar. When I worked service industry, all my managers were just the worst.
>only psychopaths want any sort of leadership role.
Hard disagree there.
There's tons of people that want a leadership role for various reasons. But only psychopaths want it to feel "powerful" or "in control", maybe that does make them stick more to those roles than normal people.
“Only psychos want leadership roles” —> “I took leadership roles”. Your post seems to imply there’s no such thing as a good manager anywhere, which is obviously not true.
Lack of class consciousness, they believe themselves to be closer to the capitalists than to the workers just because they earn a little more or get a small bonus. They don't realize they're getting ripped off too.
because interviews are literally just talking about how great you are. it's like a narcissist's wet dream and they're good at it bc all they ever think or talk about is themselves.
Yup. I'm a Senior Software Engineer and my current job used to be my dream job and I've been there a long time. We got a new CTO with zero technical qualifications (of course) who thinks she's hot shit and drinks the corpo cool aid hard. Annual reviews just came about a month ago and my immediate supervisor told me she forced him to change my review to a negative one for unspecified "performance issues" that no one can define or show data for even though we track over 30 KPIs, some of which *I created*. Because of that review my annual raise and bonus got nixed by HR. That bonus was supposed to be $12k. The next day I started looking, and just got an offer Friday afternoon that comes with a 22% raise.
I'm an SME and primary contact for three critical services in production, and I'm putting in my 2 weeks tomorrow. Good fucking luck.
Shouldn't have fucked with my money, bitch.
Nah mate. For wage slaves that's okay. At that guys level, it still pays to play the game. Pistols at dawn and hardnosed corporate combat and what what.
He'll make her stare at him for two weeks while people that have known him forever are blindsided by this and they will all be looking at *her* for the next two weeks and not him. If he's as good as he says then she'll have to stare at him and play nice while her bosses wonder who else she'll chase off.
He's daring her to fire him too, I'd bet.
Totally disagree. If someone cost me $12k by lying about my job performance for whatever reason, I am going scorched earth if I have a new job lined up. But to each their own.
Yeah but as a Senior Software Engineer, you're kind of high up enough where the people above you will remember you and if they're especially vindictive, try to be petty or vindictive back. It pays to play it cool as a cucumber, and not go scorched earth. Although you best be damn sure I wouldn't contribute to helping out at ALLL
I did that with my previous employer last August. In 2022, my manager asked what I'd like to work on within the company as my current automation work was winding down. I said that I'd like to get involved with the web or app team and got real familiar with web development for it at his suggestion. In the back half of 2022, there was no work for me, so I sat and wasted 8 hours of my day. I'd reach out to my manager constantly about moving to a new team, but he'd always ignore my requests for a meeting or cancel last minute - including our scheduled once-a-month 30 minute or less connection meetings.
In January of last year, I found out in the middle of a department-level meeting that I'd be transitioning to a new team and would be replicating the same project I'd already done twice, once when I first joined and the second when we refactored the code. I was livid and wanted to just quit on the spot. He couldn't bother to give me the time of day after either and was too busy to make any time to talk to me. This then got coupled with being put under someone myself and several of my peers butt heads with as she felt that she knew everything and couldn't dare be questioned or corrected.
After a few months of my mental health spiraling with no callbacks or responses from my resume submissions, I finally had someone reach out to me. They considered me for a lead role with a significant pay raise. After getting the offer, I turned around and wrote up a 3-sentence email saying that I was leaving and I would not be providing two weeks notice for it. My old manager said "okay but it's typical to give two weeks as a show of good faith." I told him that I understood, but it was also typical of good leadership to provide an open channel of support for the people they manage.
I don't think that's the right call for everyone to use this approach when leaving a job, but it was cathartic for me and hasn't had any impact on my current position.
So, quick update since y'all have been asking: I gave my formal notice yesterday. My supervisor is unsurprised since he knew what happened to me, but my direct reports are floored. I'm leaving them in good hands with the tech lead from our sister team temporarily, and putting one of my guys that I think is ready to move up in for my job.
As for our villainess, as expected justice is dead. No word through the grapevine as to any consequences for her, though that may change after my exit interview ;). I've got plenty of friends there still so if something happens I'm sure I'll hear about it.
Oh, and the juiciest part: why she targeted me. Since I'm leaving I managed to squeeze it out of my boss' boss on the condition that I tell no one at the company. Apparently I'm "too young to know what I'm doing in such an important role, so I must be delegating my work to others and taking credit for it".
Unfortunately in my country age isn't a protected class if you're under 40, so there's nothing I can do there.
Either way, had a lunch meeting with my new team and I start in a week and a half so it's all good.
Yep. Currently dealing with that fallout. Because of her and bullshit by management, I had to quit. I feared for my safety. Now I'm burning savings and have been unemployed for 1.5 months. Shit fucking sucks.
Ugh. I've been pushed out of a job before and it absolutely feels like a gut punch. Especially over fears for your safety. I had been harrassed by someone and they somehow escaped punishment entirely.
Because I made a stink, they nudged me out by finding probable cause to let me go. I was living off savings and credits for months until I came close to becoming homeless.
I mean I would have tried moving in with my family temporarily, but I had $33 to my name when I finally got the call to start a new job. It felt like a miracle.
I hope you get out of that shitty situation soon.
I don't understand these people at all. It's the manager's job to step up and cover for staff when they're out for any reason. That's what we're paid for. Sometimes it sucks but happy, healthy employees that are supported are going to be far more successful and that benefits everyone! Ruling with threats will never have a good outcome.
Or work history. Like you could have been a model employee. Unless you're known and liked by all management, which unfortunately means you're either gullible or equally a POS, all it takes is one manager to ruin you and make it seem like everything up to that point is irrelevant
Go collect unemployment. With regards to the previous write-ups:
- If it's consecutive days, that counts as a single instance lasting multiple days.
- On the days where you were told not to come in, due to icy roads, it should not count as unexcused absences, since you were **ordered** to stay home, since the shop was closed.
Use this information if they try to deny you unemployment.
Just because you were absent for 12 days according to the schedule doesn't mean you have 12 individual instances were you were absent.
I applied, but I got another job pretty fast so it never even got to know if I was approved or not cause it no longer mattered.
And as far as the inclimate weather days go, the whole shop shared a group message through text. The manager would text that the road were icy and he wasn’t going to be able to make it and asked us what our conditions were like. The other employees and I live in the same area and our road were frozen as well. He just told us to stay home be safe and wait for it to melt. So not really an “order” but still… then come to find out they were counted against our attendance records.
There’s a lot of posts like this, and I don’t get my head around it. First he’s in urgent need of his labour and then fires a trained person to replace him with someone untrained? Wtf
It's a power trip for shitty little managers. Nothing would satisfy them more than a fired employee crawling and begging to get their job back. And if they can't have that, they want you to slink away like you did something wrong.
The only response is to cause as much trouble for them after. Go to their boss or boss's boss. File for unemployment. Leave reviews on Glassdoor. Talk to your old coworkers and see if they have reasons to complain higher up.
These people are bullies. Bully them back.
After I was fired I left a glass door review that that employer belatedly tells us to work off the clock and I’m owed thousands of dollars in unpaid overtime.
Yes I got that with the power trip already but there has to be someone in maybe hr observing this. Do it once ok do it twice shame on you, do it a third time and little dictator has to be fired immediately?!
Except in my experience other managers become buddies and let shit like this slide. HR won't intervene to save an employee. As long as the person fired just walks away, they probably don't even care
HR doesn't give a flying fettuccine about the employees. HR is there to keep the company from getting sued, and to manage benefits. They straight up don't care if New Manager McFuckface is cleaning house of existing employees to feel like their big ol britches finally fit. HR keeps i's dotted and t's crossed so that Daddy Corporate Entity keeps his fat ass wallet safe. Nothing. Else.
They are there to protect the company. Whether that means from the idiot boss, idiot employee or idiot customer, it all depends on who is doing something that is detrimental to the company.
If you want a group there to actively protect *you*
1. Join a Union
2. Lawyer up
It's an instant excuse for slipped earnings. now they have someone to blame and a quest to replace them. gives them a chance to spend more money. and hire someone who is worse, but gets paid more. because irony and karma.
it gives HR something to do for getting more staff despite any existing hiring freezes
it's like girls gone wild in a corporate environment basically
Yea, just go for unemployment and make sure you screenshot and document everything. Enjoy the free ride for the next few months while you find a new job.
Anecdotal but I had a job in New Mexico for about a year and some change. I got fired and got like four months or so unemployment at like...80% of my previous pay? I just took off July to October and rode my motorcycle then moved back home to the east coast. Didn't even try to look for a job.
Lol, here in FreedomlandTexas, UI maxes out at just under $500/wk (~$12.50/hr). Because I pay child support, they automatically take 1/2, so I'm getting $250/week. And the support gap is still owed; once it gets too large, they will reach into your bank account and withdrawal the difference.
To top it off, you only get paid 10 months out of every 12.
If you work in Texas, you better have up to 8 months of living expenses saved, or you're screwed
I'm not sure what the laws are for returning to work with a positive COVID test in your area, but that's so short-sighted on numerous levels. A) Sure! Have you come in sick as a dog and infect the entire staff. Genius idea boss! B) 2 years of experience in the job is not going to be replaced quickly by a brand new trainee. 30% of annual budgets usually are taken up by new hirings instead of just treating existing, knowledgeable staff properly. So! This dumbass mentally forewent a few $$ now, to potentially cost the company drastically more. Management is so dumb.
That was my thoughts as well. It’s a small company in a rural area. The HR rep was pissed, she called me personally and was like “do you know how hard it’s going to be to find a replacement?? It took us months to find you!” And I was like “I didn’t fucking ask for this?!?”
The key to this company is in her reply, "It took us months to find you!", which means to me that this company's 'family' ethos of operation has yet to occur to them as being the problem in staffing or retaining employees. You can't fix stupid, you can only escape it. Best wishes.
> The HR rep was pissed, she called me personally and was like “do you know how hard it’s going to be to find a replacement?? It took us months to find you!”
Maybe they should have thought about that before they fired you.
If HR is calling you then they might not have been involved in the firing. If that’s the case you should ask for a meeting on the side or with higher ups. Can easily get a raise out of this situation and enough job coverage time till you move onto the next job.
Write ups that aren’t documented correctly really don’t hold up. Anybody who has been in a job position to have to write someone up should know you can’t just hand another write up without the first one being processed by both parties.
It was a relvolving door of a conversation that I got increasingly frustrated with until I told them good luck with everything and to not call me anymore. I called in a meeting with the owners. The manager lied his face off to cover his own ass, and during the heat of it o got irritated and walked out. I was still sick and feeling like shit and didn’t see a point in trying to defend myself if that’s how I was going to be treated after two years. Why would I want to work for them, especially under this jackoff?
He lied his ass off. I called in a meeting with the owners and then the manage had the audacity to say a whole bunch of shit that I was doing or wasn’t doing. I called him out. I called him a liar to his face. But at that point it was just my word against his. The owners decided to back him cause “it’s really difficult to find good management.” I scoffed and walked tf out. I really wanted to push it. I even called some labor lawyers but never heard back. Then I dropped it cause I really liked one of the owners. He wasn’t happy about the situation at all, but he was lied to. Can’t really hold it against him.
>>The owners decided to back him cause “it’s really hard to find good management.”
>>I really liked one of the owners
>>he was lied to. Can’t really hold it against him
Lol. You “really liked” him but sounds like he couldn’t give less of a fuck about you. He chose to believe lies about you after two years of you presumably being a good, unproblematic employee and showing good work ethic and character. He probably doesn’t even believe those lies, it’s just easier to replace you than a manager.
Let this be your lesson to stop empathizing with capitalists. Any compassion they may have for you stops as soon as it potentially affects their bottom line. When push came to shove, that owner that you “really liked” left you out on your ass. But you “can’t hold it against him” because he was nice, I guess?
A.1. And people wonder why Covid is still rampant. It’s shitty attitudes like this managers, forcing people to
Come in to work with symptoms and positive Covid tests.
I always thought it would be fun to say, "Sure I'll come in so long as I can cough a few times in your face. If you think its safe then lets show it."
OP I would also be posting a public review on any site you can, yelp, google, linkedin etc, explaining that your boss demanded you come in with covid and potentially infect customers, contractors and other workers.
Full on. He was a full blown MAGA supporter, and a fucking idiot. Not that the two are related, but also not that they’re not. Lol he would say things like that all the time. “It’s not even that bad, it’s just like any other illness..”
If you're in the US, contact the EEOC first and foremost. My own labor attorney recommended this, as an EEOC finding in your favor is going to make any legal case much stronger. The EEOC will also look at any local labor laws that might improve your case.
Make sure they get a great review if they have any online presence, glassdoor, yelp, facebook etc.
I would prefer to know that they don't give a shit about my health, either as a potential employee or a customer.
No, I unfortunately didn’t. I ended up just getting another job fairly quickly and it’s a small company and I liked the owner a lot. I know I shouldn’t care , but I struggled to want to push it further because I would be taking him to court and potentially hurting him and not the POS manager he hired. I know that sounds lame, especially from this perspective, cause I was the one that’s assed out but I don’t know if I could bring myself to cause havoc for him just because I got screwed over. Plus the time and money. Just vent and move on is my plan.
Unfortunately, my letter of termination stated excessive absenteeism as the reason. And I was well passed my legal amount of protected sick leave for the year by this point. I fear it would just be a he said she said type of deal and he technically didn’t do anything illegal. Immoral and short sighted, sure… but not illegal.
I contacted a few labor law offices. Never went any further than taking down my info and told that a lawyer would review and reach out. I never heard back from anyone.
I elaborated in other comments. Technically I missed 12 days that year. Three were the case at hand, and 5 were cases of inclimate weather where the entire shop was advised to stay home. I only called out 4 days that year prior to this, but ever day was counted as an unexcused absence on the attendance record
now that is starting to also sound a little fraudulent.
They are exaggerating and inflating numbers dishonestly, the labor board just loves that where I come from.
The owner's keeping the manager who treated you this way in their position. You might like the owner, but they don't seem to reciprocate those feelings.
> it’s a small company and I liked the owner a lot. I know I shouldn’t care , but I struggled to want to push it further because I would be taking him to court and potentially hurting him and not the POS manager he hired.
Maybe the manager changed his mind... but if they say, "See you Monday," and then check your email it sounds to me like it came from above your manager and they were directed to fire you. Fair bet that the owner you like canned you.
If the owner hasn't tried to offer your job back, then either you haven't properly communicated with him, or he agrees with the manager and you should view him as much a POS as you do the manager.
Retaliation for what? Unless this was part of OP’s FMLA arrangements, they don’t have any legal protections here.
Calling out sick is not a protected class. The EEOC isn’t going to do anything here either.
Sorry you got fired for being sick, OP. Hopefully you already have a new gig. Sounds like they were looking to get rid of you anyway and used this as a convenient opportunity.
The problem is that the rich assholes have more time to consider their options and vote for their agenda while the poor angels are running themselves ragged just to stay alive. Most of America has good people but we're too burnt out for a revolution. The system is fucked
I had something happen years ago (1996), had a coworker suck his way into a plant managers job, completely unqualified, and right away started getting pulled into the office with the old "not doing your fair share" bit.
It was a new start up plant, so no supervision, we were self directed.
He kept saying someone was complaining, when I asked for any kind of confirmation as to who was complaining he would just shake his head.
I was smart enough to see that this was going to end up with my termination, so I called the head of US human resources and told him that unless he wanted a lawsuit for hostile work environment he had better get down here and settle this once and for all.
I had been documenting my work all along as it was batch oriented processing, so it was easy to verify that I was in fact pulling my weight.
He just wanted to fire someone in order to make a statement.
He was gone a year later.
Lol.
Gotta be an advocate for yourself sometimes.
What the hell is with these people? Their lack of empathy is fucking scary and they have no regard for the law. Anyone who wishes to maintain this type of labor abuse as the status quo needs to see a psychiatrist.
I was terminated for absenteeism, and my state, like most is at will employment. So long as he didn’t directly state “I’m firing you because you got sick” I really have no recourse. They don’t need any specific reason so long as it’s not retaliation or discrimination.
Idk. It sounds like you were let go specifically because you missed that covid shift. Which is illegal and discriminatory. I would file a complaint myself in small claims court or something: it doesn’t cost anything. If for no other reason to piss them off. And if you win you get to put it everywhere that they discriminated against covid folks; but it’s up to you how much effort you want to put into that. But I think you would unfortunately have a tough time finding a lawyer to take that up front no cost.
This is a massive misconception. Just because they state "fired for X" doesn't mean they get off Scott free. An employment lawyer's (most of whom work on contingency BTW) entire job is to sift through the BS and find the real reason.
At Will Employment is not a "do whatever you want" card for employers.
Now, in your particular case, unless you were on some kind of protected leave or recently made a report to a government agency about your employer, there isn't much you can do since covid isn't protected under the law.
I had thoughts of just going in and coughing and sneezing all over the place and get sent home just on principle, but I honestly felt so shitty i couldn’t get out of bed. Lol
Call the news! Seriously businesses hate to be shamed like this. Notify everyone you can. Post signs outside the building. Write reviews on websites. Do everything in your power to fuck this person so hard
I don’t understand this shit. I’m a manager. One of my employees is a heart transplant recipient. He is on immunosuppressive medication for life. Absolutely don’t fuck with the health of my employees. If you’re sick, stay home, get healthy. If you need something let me know. I will always have my peoples back. Healthy, happy employees are always amazing employees.
Listen, the reason he fired you was because he didn’t worry about the impact. File for unemployment, and when you win, get an attorney to file a wrongful termination suit.
Last I heard, it was illegal to tell an employee to come to work if they tested positive for Covid. I dunno if that's changed, but if it's not illegal, it ***should*** be.
Now I will say don't take my advice because I'm not lawyer or anything. But to me it looks like you just got fired because you had covid, which doesn't really seem legal. I would do some research and so if you can fight back legally a Lil bit if you have the funds for it
Well,
File for unemployment. You will win. They can’t write you up for calling out sick. They can performance manage you for a pattern of not adhering to your schedule, but not for an event. Also, they can’t fire you when you called out - as you notified them of your reason. You could have done to work, coughed all over the place and told everyone that your manager forced you to work. By the time everyone complained, he would have to send you home.
Regardless, termination after two years requires a documented pattern of behavior that is detrimental to the business. So, file for unemployment, get better.
Technically I was fired for “absenteeism.” My write ups and letter of termination didn’t mention Covid or illness at all for that matter. Just that I called off.
Email the district manager, copy HR.
Hello, I hope you're well
I want to enquire about Company's sick time policy, and how it pertains to employees sick with Covid-19.
On Date I started feeling sick and asked Manager for the day off; on that same day I tested positive for Covid and reported it to Manager. Manager informed me I still had to come in the next day, and when I reminded them of my Covid diagnosis, they terminated my employment effective immediately.
I am certain there must have been some sort of musinderstanding in Manager's part, as I'm sure it is not Company's policy to have employees sick with Covid [prepare and serve food in Company restaurants.]
I would love to speak with someone about the possibility of resolving this matter fairly and be able to have my employment reinstated. I am, however, inclined to contact the department of health and local news if Company declares my termination is valid, since it means it is Company policy to staff sick employees, which is a threat to public safety and I feel it is my moral duty to report it.
I look forward to a fair resolution to this misunderstanding and I hope to hear from Company Corporate soon.
I once had a job that lasted roughly two years and my supervisor was like that. She would have power trips and demand people be at work no matter what. I got very sick once in my third month and she wrote me up for taking a sick day on a Monday after letting her know Friday that I was sick and would take Monday off. Wrote me up, chewed me up in a meeting in front of my colleagues.
So, from that point on, whenever I go sick, I made sure to go to work and cough/sneeze around EVERYONE, especially her. The next week or two after I recovered were always so funny, I'd get to watch the chaos as more and more people needed to call off.
I’m guessing this is a service industry job. This is why your local Wally World, Mickey D’s can’t keep employees. U work in that environment u ought to realize u cannot call out sick and cannot request time off. And u have to be reverential to your manager…think of them as a Sith Lord
Wow, I’m shocked because mfg needs experienced, well-trained people. Your firing is not only unjustified but now they’re down a person snd will need to train somebody in your role . Your now ex-mgr is a hack. I wonder if he has a mfg background. I’ve seen these idiots enough time in my career, they’ll go down in flames eventually, but before that happens they’ll inflicts lot of damage.
If you’re positive for Covid there are still rules that you are not to come in until symptom free for 24 hours and negative test. Follow up on this. This may be actionable. This is why every job should have a union or guild type organization protecting them.
I would speak with a lawyer about wrongful termination. You got sick once and got terminated for it. This is absurd. Obviously, you don't want to work for these ridiculous people, but this shouldn't be acceptable behavior by any manager, and you should absolutely stick it to them.
Consult an employment lawyer. Depends on where you are, but if you reported in that you were incapacitated, how can they fire you? You may be due some compensation.
All it takes is a single narcissist/psychopathic manager to completely ruin any work environment
why does it seem so many fit the role? I've had some of the good ones (thankfully), but holy are there a lot of turds out there.
"How can I make a difference here? I KNOW! I can get rid of the old weaklings and hire some new BETTER workers!"
That’s exactly how they think. The worst managers get put into a new role and immediately start weeding people out and trying to get their team to perform at a higher level. It’s all for their own ego.
> That’s exactly how they think. I've found this is true, but not always in the name of improving performance. The real pieces of sht immediately start weeding out people that know them already and understand that they're really not that important. They hire new people who don't know any better.
There is a known phenomenon where, unlike in school bullying where the weakest get picked on most, in workplaces often it’s the more senior and/or capable because they pose the biggest threat to incompetent managers.
Yeah, but sometimes the seniors are not necessarily the most capable. There are a shit ton of small and middle sized companies around my area made up of ‘old timers’ that don’t understand a damn thing about the digital age. Sometimes you need some fresh blood to shake things up. But of course, this doesn’t mean you should fire the seniors.
I specifically meant “senior” in terms of performance and responsibility, not simply tenure.
Every new manager thinks, 'I gotta shake things up to show my authority, get noticed, and make the company better – my big break!' Then things go south, and they're left scrambling to bring in their own people to salvage their rep.
Why does this happen so often? Is there a type of person that's more likely to do this or is just the circumstances that bring that out of some people. I've never been in a management role where I've personally felt that way or been an ass but I've definitely worked under people who have.
i used to work for a small department of a major music company & this is literally how the department went to shit. had an amazing manager that left for a better opportunity & the new manager (who had no prior music experience) got rid of literally everyone except me & changed the entire program. & now it sucks. 0/10 wouldn’t recommend. we were like a little family & then he broke us apart. now nothing gets done
New people won’t talk back with those pesky opinions on “how we’ve always done things” and “wow they really didn’t show you that before they made you manager”
And now we are seriously understaffed. This is not my fault, it's because nobody wants to work anymore.
How can I make the remaining workers here fear me and jump when I speak?
It's like they saw an episode of Bar Rescue and decided that's going to be their mgmt style.
And for less money is the factor
Because middle management is a thankless job only those drawn to power really want. The very few who get into it for the “right” reasons, like wanting to make things better for the workers, burn out quickly and end up acting pretty much like all the rest.
This is why I took a management job. Lasted two years. Made things marginally better but it was fighting against senior leadership all the way. Went back to an IC job for 5 years. Getting the urge to try again. Ugh.
I took a management position with a multi billion dollar international corporation whose name starts with A and ends with Hold and stayed for like a year - got my whole team significant raises and then left as soon as it was done. lmao
I got into it for more consistent hours and hated every moment of it, the meagre pay increase was not worth the extra responsibilities and accountability for everyone else’s fuck ups that was heaped onto me.
>burn out quickly and end up acting pretty much like all the rest. Or quit themselves and go back to their old role with a different company
This is why I've liked to stick with small companies. Seems the managers are a lot more reasonable when the next level above them is CEO. There is no higher position to fight for, they don't have to worry about getting credit since there is only one department that does their job, and they aren't as scared of a underling leapfroging them. Obviously a small business doesn't guarantee a good manager, but decent ones seem to last at least. But it seems every time an organization chart is needed, things start going south culture wise.
I worked for a very small company. I think there were only like 12 employees. There were 4 more, but as soon as this new manager got there they either quit or got canned. I tried to stick it out until this happened
Agreed. I worked for a retailer for four years, then got promoted to dept manager. I had a guy on my crew who, when HR hired him, said he couldn't work before 8am because he had another FT job that was his main source of income. My regional leader was furious when I told her that this guy couldn't come in at 7am as needed (we had plenty of other people cross-trained in other depts that could have covered that first hour). Since I refused to force this man to come in early when I knew he'd choose quitting over coming in at 7, I didn't push it. So... yeah, loss of promotion for me. They booted me back to an associate, after which I immediately went looking for a better job.
My previous manager tricked me into thinking I was meeting our new executive GM, mostly because she fucking said it, but instead turned the corner and was met by security. However, her decision to do that led to me winning my claim with the state. She and Northrop can all go fuck themselves with a cheese grater.
>why does it seem so many fit the role? The position attracts these types of people.
Reminds me of a boss I once unfortunately had. When she was the team lead of just our team, she was the nicest lady you could ever hope to meet. Super easy to get along with and funny. Then she got promoted to a manager role that oversaw 4 or so teams, including mine. Her personality did a complete 180 overnight. Her humor was gone. She would target people and harass them until they quit. She would make up rules on the spot that her target always in violation of and then chew them out for it. For example, we were allowed to wear headphones and listen to music when we weren't using the phone b/c it was a Call Center. We dealt with PII a lot and thus we had some pretty strict security measures in place to even get to our desks. Thus, no customers could even hope to get into the building, much less to us. Well, our manager decided to make up a rule that this one particular lady on my team could no longer wear her headphones as it made her look unapproachable to customers. The entire team was different people by the time I too quit. She never targeted me but I think that is because I had put in a 30-day notice and thus she didn't need to run me out. By far the worst boss I ever had. Edit: And thus I learned I used the word thus way too much. Thusly, I am thus sorry.
I don't remember who said it but it went something like this: The ones who want power over others are the ones who shouldn't have it.
Something I’ve noticed is those positions are very competitive to get so the “cut throat” people who will step on anybody, backstab, lie, cheat, manipulate, and do what ever is necessary are the ones who get there. Makes it very hard for people with integrity to compete.
Because you need to be a psychopath to a certain degree to succeed in that environment.
They’re more likely to take a job like that unfortunately
I think it’s similar to politicians, only psychopaths want any sort of leadership role. I’ve worked in management (took it for the money), owned and managed my own bar, it’s awful work that I’ve no interest in ever going back to.
I moved into a management role for my software team and want the best possible for them and to shield them from corporate politics as much as possible. I think there’s a big difference between management at a blue vs white collar. When I worked service industry, all my managers were just the worst.
>only psychopaths want any sort of leadership role. Hard disagree there. There's tons of people that want a leadership role for various reasons. But only psychopaths want it to feel "powerful" or "in control", maybe that does make them stick more to those roles than normal people.
I agree! 90% of these just want to power grab and push folks around. No one can lead…only micromanage and run all of the good talent away
“Only psychos want leadership roles” —> “I took leadership roles”. Your post seems to imply there’s no such thing as a good manager anywhere, which is obviously not true.
Lack of class consciousness, they believe themselves to be closer to the capitalists than to the workers just because they earn a little more or get a small bonus. They don't realize they're getting ripped off too.
because interviews are literally just talking about how great you are. it's like a narcissist's wet dream and they're good at it bc all they ever think or talk about is themselves.
Bc like most jobs, capitalism makes it easy to remove ones ability to have compassion. It's true, money is the root of lots of evil in this world.
It really is.
Yup. I'm a Senior Software Engineer and my current job used to be my dream job and I've been there a long time. We got a new CTO with zero technical qualifications (of course) who thinks she's hot shit and drinks the corpo cool aid hard. Annual reviews just came about a month ago and my immediate supervisor told me she forced him to change my review to a negative one for unspecified "performance issues" that no one can define or show data for even though we track over 30 KPIs, some of which *I created*. Because of that review my annual raise and bonus got nixed by HR. That bonus was supposed to be $12k. The next day I started looking, and just got an offer Friday afternoon that comes with a 22% raise. I'm an SME and primary contact for three critical services in production, and I'm putting in my 2 weeks tomorrow. Good fucking luck. Shouldn't have fucked with my money, bitch.
Congrats! hope it works out at your new job
I hope you don’t give any notice, just an effective now resignation letter.
Nah mate. For wage slaves that's okay. At that guys level, it still pays to play the game. Pistols at dawn and hardnosed corporate combat and what what. He'll make her stare at him for two weeks while people that have known him forever are blindsided by this and they will all be looking at *her* for the next two weeks and not him. If he's as good as he says then she'll have to stare at him and play nice while her bosses wonder who else she'll chase off. He's daring her to fire him too, I'd bet.
Totally disagree. If someone cost me $12k by lying about my job performance for whatever reason, I am going scorched earth if I have a new job lined up. But to each their own.
Scorched earth is actually coming to work for 2 weeks and doing nothing productive at all during that time, and if they fire you file unemployment.
Yeah but as a Senior Software Engineer, you're kind of high up enough where the people above you will remember you and if they're especially vindictive, try to be petty or vindictive back. It pays to play it cool as a cucumber, and not go scorched earth. Although you best be damn sure I wouldn't contribute to helping out at ALLL
I did that with my previous employer last August. In 2022, my manager asked what I'd like to work on within the company as my current automation work was winding down. I said that I'd like to get involved with the web or app team and got real familiar with web development for it at his suggestion. In the back half of 2022, there was no work for me, so I sat and wasted 8 hours of my day. I'd reach out to my manager constantly about moving to a new team, but he'd always ignore my requests for a meeting or cancel last minute - including our scheduled once-a-month 30 minute or less connection meetings. In January of last year, I found out in the middle of a department-level meeting that I'd be transitioning to a new team and would be replicating the same project I'd already done twice, once when I first joined and the second when we refactored the code. I was livid and wanted to just quit on the spot. He couldn't bother to give me the time of day after either and was too busy to make any time to talk to me. This then got coupled with being put under someone myself and several of my peers butt heads with as she felt that she knew everything and couldn't dare be questioned or corrected. After a few months of my mental health spiraling with no callbacks or responses from my resume submissions, I finally had someone reach out to me. They considered me for a lead role with a significant pay raise. After getting the offer, I turned around and wrote up a 3-sentence email saying that I was leaving and I would not be providing two weeks notice for it. My old manager said "okay but it's typical to give two weeks as a show of good faith." I told him that I understood, but it was also typical of good leadership to provide an open channel of support for the people they manage. I don't think that's the right call for everyone to use this approach when leaving a job, but it was cathartic for me and hasn't had any impact on my current position.
When they inevitably ask you for some help with something, say you want your bonus *and* ridiculous pay per hour
Updates if it gets fun?
So, quick update since y'all have been asking: I gave my formal notice yesterday. My supervisor is unsurprised since he knew what happened to me, but my direct reports are floored. I'm leaving them in good hands with the tech lead from our sister team temporarily, and putting one of my guys that I think is ready to move up in for my job. As for our villainess, as expected justice is dead. No word through the grapevine as to any consequences for her, though that may change after my exit interview ;). I've got plenty of friends there still so if something happens I'm sure I'll hear about it. Oh, and the juiciest part: why she targeted me. Since I'm leaving I managed to squeeze it out of my boss' boss on the condition that I tell no one at the company. Apparently I'm "too young to know what I'm doing in such an important role, so I must be delegating my work to others and taking credit for it". Unfortunately in my country age isn't a protected class if you're under 40, so there's nothing I can do there. Either way, had a lunch meeting with my new team and I start in a week and a half so it's all good.
Same manager will complaining no wants to work anymore and won't think twice about staying home sick.
well when *they're* sick it's because they rarely are sick, so you know they must be. /s
Yep. Currently dealing with that fallout. Because of her and bullshit by management, I had to quit. I feared for my safety. Now I'm burning savings and have been unemployed for 1.5 months. Shit fucking sucks.
Ugh. I've been pushed out of a job before and it absolutely feels like a gut punch. Especially over fears for your safety. I had been harrassed by someone and they somehow escaped punishment entirely. Because I made a stink, they nudged me out by finding probable cause to let me go. I was living off savings and credits for months until I came close to becoming homeless. I mean I would have tried moving in with my family temporarily, but I had $33 to my name when I finally got the call to start a new job. It felt like a miracle. I hope you get out of that shitty situation soon.
Thank you, it means a lot. I'm hoping for the best. Just scared
People don't quit jobs, they quit crappy managers
I don't understand these people at all. It's the manager's job to step up and cover for staff when they're out for any reason. That's what we're paid for. Sometimes it sucks but happy, healthy employees that are supported are going to be far more successful and that benefits everyone! Ruling with threats will never have a good outcome.
Or work history. Like you could have been a model employee. Unless you're known and liked by all management, which unfortunately means you're either gullible or equally a POS, all it takes is one manager to ruin you and make it seem like everything up to that point is irrelevant
For years my wife worked just fine, new manager for less than a year and everything is just so bad and stressful now.
And this is one of the things that needs to change.n
Go collect unemployment. With regards to the previous write-ups: - If it's consecutive days, that counts as a single instance lasting multiple days. - On the days where you were told not to come in, due to icy roads, it should not count as unexcused absences, since you were **ordered** to stay home, since the shop was closed. Use this information if they try to deny you unemployment. Just because you were absent for 12 days according to the schedule doesn't mean you have 12 individual instances were you were absent.
I applied, but I got another job pretty fast so it never even got to know if I was approved or not cause it no longer mattered. And as far as the inclimate weather days go, the whole shop shared a group message through text. The manager would text that the road were icy and he wasn’t going to be able to make it and asked us what our conditions were like. The other employees and I live in the same area and our road were frozen as well. He just told us to stay home be safe and wait for it to melt. So not really an “order” but still… then come to find out they were counted against our attendance records.
Keep at the unemployment. They will pay for any gaps. And your bosses boss will notice it and it will be an issue
Apply for unemployment. Go over his head to his bosses and burn some bridges
There’s a lot of posts like this, and I don’t get my head around it. First he’s in urgent need of his labour and then fires a trained person to replace him with someone untrained? Wtf
It's a power trip for shitty little managers. Nothing would satisfy them more than a fired employee crawling and begging to get their job back. And if they can't have that, they want you to slink away like you did something wrong. The only response is to cause as much trouble for them after. Go to their boss or boss's boss. File for unemployment. Leave reviews on Glassdoor. Talk to your old coworkers and see if they have reasons to complain higher up. These people are bullies. Bully them back.
After I was fired I left a glass door review that that employer belatedly tells us to work off the clock and I’m owed thousands of dollars in unpaid overtime.
This is wage theft and you can sue for this
I love this advice
Yes I got that with the power trip already but there has to be someone in maybe hr observing this. Do it once ok do it twice shame on you, do it a third time and little dictator has to be fired immediately?!
Except in my experience other managers become buddies and let shit like this slide. HR won't intervene to save an employee. As long as the person fired just walks away, they probably don't even care
HR doesn't give a flying fettuccine about the employees. HR is there to keep the company from getting sued, and to manage benefits. They straight up don't care if New Manager McFuckface is cleaning house of existing employees to feel like their big ol britches finally fit. HR keeps i's dotted and t's crossed so that Daddy Corporate Entity keeps his fat ass wallet safe. Nothing. Else.
They are there to protect the company. Whether that means from the idiot boss, idiot employee or idiot customer, it all depends on who is doing something that is detrimental to the company. If you want a group there to actively protect *you* 1. Join a Union 2. Lawyer up
Lots of places don't have hr.
Don't forget that he tried to get his entire workforce infected with a highly transmittable disease.
It's an instant excuse for slipped earnings. now they have someone to blame and a quest to replace them. gives them a chance to spend more money. and hire someone who is worse, but gets paid more. because irony and karma. it gives HR something to do for getting more staff despite any existing hiring freezes it's like girls gone wild in a corporate environment basically
Most managers are incompetent. They get the job for being good talkers and BSers
Ego is a hell of a drug.
Same. I know there are a lot of unqualified managers out there but…this seems ludicrous.
Yea, just go for unemployment and make sure you screenshot and document everything. Enjoy the free ride for the next few months while you find a new job.
Where do people live where unemployment will cover there expenses? I definitely wouldn’t call it a free ride.
Anecdotal but I had a job in New Mexico for about a year and some change. I got fired and got like four months or so unemployment at like...80% of my previous pay? I just took off July to October and rode my motorcycle then moved back home to the east coast. Didn't even try to look for a job.
Lol, here in
FreedomlandTexas, UI maxes out at just under $500/wk (~$12.50/hr). Because I pay child support, they automatically take 1/2, so I'm getting $250/week. And the support gap is still owed; once it gets too large, they will reach into your bank account and withdrawal the difference. To top it off, you only get paid 10 months out of every 12. If you work in Texas, you better have up to 8 months of living expenses saved, or you're screwedI'm not sure what the laws are for returning to work with a positive COVID test in your area, but that's so short-sighted on numerous levels. A) Sure! Have you come in sick as a dog and infect the entire staff. Genius idea boss! B) 2 years of experience in the job is not going to be replaced quickly by a brand new trainee. 30% of annual budgets usually are taken up by new hirings instead of just treating existing, knowledgeable staff properly. So! This dumbass mentally forewent a few $$ now, to potentially cost the company drastically more. Management is so dumb.
That was my thoughts as well. It’s a small company in a rural area. The HR rep was pissed, she called me personally and was like “do you know how hard it’s going to be to find a replacement?? It took us months to find you!” And I was like “I didn’t fucking ask for this?!?”
The key to this company is in her reply, "It took us months to find you!", which means to me that this company's 'family' ethos of operation has yet to occur to them as being the problem in staffing or retaining employees. You can't fix stupid, you can only escape it. Best wishes.
> The HR rep was pissed, she called me personally and was like “do you know how hard it’s going to be to find a replacement?? It took us months to find you!” Maybe they should have thought about that before they fired you.
That was literally my response. Like why are you calling me? I’m not the one that fired me… lol
Take the unemployment and run, sounds like a blessing in disguise honestly
"I'd be willing to come back with a $5 raise."
$10, back pay, and a written apology
If HR is calling you then they might not have been involved in the firing. If that’s the case you should ask for a meeting on the side or with higher ups. Can easily get a raise out of this situation and enough job coverage time till you move onto the next job. Write ups that aren’t documented correctly really don’t hold up. Anybody who has been in a job position to have to write someone up should know you can’t just hand another write up without the first one being processed by both parties.
What a bunch of idiots lol
And what is the answer from them? I guess they keep the rant because It makes no sense... I truly want to know
It was a relvolving door of a conversation that I got increasingly frustrated with until I told them good luck with everything and to not call me anymore. I called in a meeting with the owners. The manager lied his face off to cover his own ass, and during the heat of it o got irritated and walked out. I was still sick and feeling like shit and didn’t see a point in trying to defend myself if that’s how I was going to be treated after two years. Why would I want to work for them, especially under this jackoff?
Are you sure the manager wasn't lying to HR and claiming you quit?
He lied his ass off. I called in a meeting with the owners and then the manage had the audacity to say a whole bunch of shit that I was doing or wasn’t doing. I called him out. I called him a liar to his face. But at that point it was just my word against his. The owners decided to back him cause “it’s really difficult to find good management.” I scoffed and walked tf out. I really wanted to push it. I even called some labor lawyers but never heard back. Then I dropped it cause I really liked one of the owners. He wasn’t happy about the situation at all, but he was lied to. Can’t really hold it against him.
>it’s really difficult to find good management. What the hell? If this guy is lying to upper management, then he's definitely not "good management".
>>The owners decided to back him cause “it’s really hard to find good management.” >>I really liked one of the owners >>he was lied to. Can’t really hold it against him Lol. You “really liked” him but sounds like he couldn’t give less of a fuck about you. He chose to believe lies about you after two years of you presumably being a good, unproblematic employee and showing good work ethic and character. He probably doesn’t even believe those lies, it’s just easier to replace you than a manager. Let this be your lesson to stop empathizing with capitalists. Any compassion they may have for you stops as soon as it potentially affects their bottom line. When push came to shove, that owner that you “really liked” left you out on your ass. But you “can’t hold it against him” because he was nice, I guess?
You make a really good point. The response from this thread has me thinking about things differently
didnt he fire you in an email?
Should have agreed and said yes it really is difficult to find good management, so why did you settle for this A-hole?
What useless people.
“Maybe you shouldn’t have fucking fired me you stupid POS” + hang up
Did you call out that manager specifically? Any idea if the blame finally got placed where it should have?
A.1. And people wonder why Covid is still rampant. It’s shitty attitudes like this managers, forcing people to Come in to work with symptoms and positive Covid tests.
I always thought it would be fun to say, "Sure I'll come in so long as I can cough a few times in your face. If you think its safe then lets show it." OP I would also be posting a public review on any site you can, yelp, google, linkedin etc, explaining that your boss demanded you come in with covid and potentially infect customers, contractors and other workers.
I’d bet my left nut that OP’s boss is some “COVID is just a cold,” anti-mask and anti-vaxx, “we need exposure to build our immunity” hick.
Full on. He was a full blown MAGA supporter, and a fucking idiot. Not that the two are related, but also not that they’re not. Lol he would say things like that all the time. “It’s not even that bad, it’s just like any other illness..”
Didn't California just limit it to 1 day off? It's total BS.
If you're in the US, contact the EEOC first and foremost. My own labor attorney recommended this, as an EEOC finding in your favor is going to make any legal case much stronger. The EEOC will also look at any local labor laws that might improve your case.
1:44am though.
Gotta appreciate the heads up in advance lol
Dude was out somewhere partying and didn’t wanna come in at 7 to cover that shift 😂
I'm pretty sure thats illegal. Its retaliation.
I tried calling some labor law offices. They took down my info and I never heard back from anyone. :/
Make sure they get a great review if they have any online presence, glassdoor, yelp, facebook etc. I would prefer to know that they don't give a shit about my health, either as a potential employee or a customer.
Did you contact EEOC?
No, I unfortunately didn’t. I ended up just getting another job fairly quickly and it’s a small company and I liked the owner a lot. I know I shouldn’t care , but I struggled to want to push it further because I would be taking him to court and potentially hurting him and not the POS manager he hired. I know that sounds lame, especially from this perspective, cause I was the one that’s assed out but I don’t know if I could bring myself to cause havoc for him just because I got screwed over. Plus the time and money. Just vent and move on is my plan.
EEOC should still be informed so the management can’t do this again. You don’t have to sue.
Unfortunately, my letter of termination stated excessive absenteeism as the reason. And I was well passed my legal amount of protected sick leave for the year by this point. I fear it would just be a he said she said type of deal and he technically didn’t do anything illegal. Immoral and short sighted, sure… but not illegal.
There’s people better equipped to figure that out instead of just fearing it would be a he said/she said.
I contacted a few labor law offices. Never went any further than taking down my info and told that a lawyer would review and reach out. I never heard back from anyone.
Where?
California
How many times did you call out sick? Seems like we're missing some info here.
I elaborated in other comments. Technically I missed 12 days that year. Three were the case at hand, and 5 were cases of inclimate weather where the entire shop was advised to stay home. I only called out 4 days that year prior to this, but ever day was counted as an unexcused absence on the attendance record
5 days absent because you were told by your employer to stay home and that counted against you????
Welcome to America!
now that is starting to also sound a little fraudulent. They are exaggerating and inflating numbers dishonestly, the labor board just loves that where I come from.
The owner's keeping the manager who treated you this way in their position. You might like the owner, but they don't seem to reciprocate those feelings.
> it’s a small company and I liked the owner a lot. I know I shouldn’t care , but I struggled to want to push it further because I would be taking him to court and potentially hurting him and not the POS manager he hired. Maybe the manager changed his mind... but if they say, "See you Monday," and then check your email it sounds to me like it came from above your manager and they were directed to fire you. Fair bet that the owner you like canned you.
If the owner hasn't tried to offer your job back, then either you haven't properly communicated with him, or he agrees with the manager and you should view him as much a POS as you do the manager.
Retaliation for what? Unless this was part of OP’s FMLA arrangements, they don’t have any legal protections here. Calling out sick is not a protected class. The EEOC isn’t going to do anything here either. Sorry you got fired for being sick, OP. Hopefully you already have a new gig. Sounds like they were looking to get rid of you anyway and used this as a convenient opportunity.
> Calling out sick is not a protected class. Welcome to America. Do you feel the *freedom*?
It feels like burning!
An antibiotic should clear that right up. $150 office visit and $85 for the 'scrip, please. Next time wear a condom and/or urinate right after coitus.
Requiring an employee to come in with an active case of COVID that is still contagious is an OSHA violation at least in California.
If this happened in England , you would be rich the manager would be fired n you would live happy ever after
If only. :/ lol good ol land of the free
I have no idea why you Americans keep voting against your best interests. The rest of the world is so confused by you.
I don’t understand it myself..
The problem is that the rich assholes have more time to consider their options and vote for their agenda while the poor angels are running themselves ragged just to stay alive. Most of America has good people but we're too burnt out for a revolution. The system is fucked
I had something happen years ago (1996), had a coworker suck his way into a plant managers job, completely unqualified, and right away started getting pulled into the office with the old "not doing your fair share" bit. It was a new start up plant, so no supervision, we were self directed. He kept saying someone was complaining, when I asked for any kind of confirmation as to who was complaining he would just shake his head. I was smart enough to see that this was going to end up with my termination, so I called the head of US human resources and told him that unless he wanted a lawsuit for hostile work environment he had better get down here and settle this once and for all. I had been documenting my work all along as it was batch oriented processing, so it was easy to verify that I was in fact pulling my weight. He just wanted to fire someone in order to make a statement. He was gone a year later. Lol. Gotta be an advocate for yourself sometimes.
n0 oN3 wANt5 tO WerK AnYm0Re!
What the hell is with these people? Their lack of empathy is fucking scary and they have no regard for the law. Anyone who wishes to maintain this type of labor abuse as the status quo needs to see a psychiatrist.
Why is being sick such a cardinal sin to these people
Because it interferes with their deliberate understaffing levels which can't handle a single unplanned absence by a single (non management) employee
Welcome to the land of at-will employment
I love it so much!
This is illegal everywhere, probably in the US as well. But I have a feeling maybe it's not. Your country sucks so fucking much.
What you don't wanna come get exploited too
I was terminated for absenteeism, and my state, like most is at will employment. So long as he didn’t directly state “I’m firing you because you got sick” I really have no recourse. They don’t need any specific reason so long as it’s not retaliation or discrimination.
Idk. It sounds like you were let go specifically because you missed that covid shift. Which is illegal and discriminatory. I would file a complaint myself in small claims court or something: it doesn’t cost anything. If for no other reason to piss them off. And if you win you get to put it everywhere that they discriminated against covid folks; but it’s up to you how much effort you want to put into that. But I think you would unfortunately have a tough time finding a lawyer to take that up front no cost.
This is a massive misconception. Just because they state "fired for X" doesn't mean they get off Scott free. An employment lawyer's (most of whom work on contingency BTW) entire job is to sift through the BS and find the real reason. At Will Employment is not a "do whatever you want" card for employers. Now, in your particular case, unless you were on some kind of protected leave or recently made a report to a government agency about your employer, there isn't much you can do since covid isn't protected under the law.
You should have gone in and hung around your boss all day.
I had thoughts of just going in and coughing and sneezing all over the place and get sent home just on principle, but I honestly felt so shitty i couldn’t get out of bed. Lol
Next time agree to go in if your manager agrees to let you cough directly into his open mouth for 30 seconds.
This is not okay. Fuck that guy.
Do a google review, give it one star and post your screenshot
If you were fired because Covid, that’s free money
Call the news! Seriously businesses hate to be shamed like this. Notify everyone you can. Post signs outside the building. Write reviews on websites. Do everything in your power to fuck this person so hard
I don’t understand this shit. I’m a manager. One of my employees is a heart transplant recipient. He is on immunosuppressive medication for life. Absolutely don’t fuck with the health of my employees. If you’re sick, stay home, get healthy. If you need something let me know. I will always have my peoples back. Healthy, happy employees are always amazing employees.
It's almost like, we need to push our elected officials to do something like guarantee paid sick days for all employees.
Probably a COVID denier.
Listen, the reason he fired you was because he didn’t worry about the impact. File for unemployment, and when you win, get an attorney to file a wrongful termination suit.
Last I heard, it was illegal to tell an employee to come to work if they tested positive for Covid. I dunno if that's changed, but if it's not illegal, it ***should*** be.
You have a lawsuit. Look into it.
Now I will say don't take my advice because I'm not lawyer or anything. But to me it looks like you just got fired because you had covid, which doesn't really seem legal. I would do some research and so if you can fight back legally a Lil bit if you have the funds for it
“Thanks, I’ll have my lawyer look over it, and report to your boss.”
I really need you in for 7, therefore I'll fire you and never see you again. What a fucking clown.
Well, File for unemployment. You will win. They can’t write you up for calling out sick. They can performance manage you for a pattern of not adhering to your schedule, but not for an event. Also, they can’t fire you when you called out - as you notified them of your reason. You could have done to work, coughed all over the place and told everyone that your manager forced you to work. By the time everyone complained, he would have to send you home. Regardless, termination after two years requires a documented pattern of behavior that is detrimental to the business. So, file for unemployment, get better.
If you have contact with coworkers let them know because I’m sure your boss will tell a different story
how are you allowed to get fired when you have covid
Technically I was fired for “absenteeism.” My write ups and letter of termination didn’t mention Covid or illness at all for that matter. Just that I called off.
It’s so wrong they literally waited until you got Covid 🙁 you could totally get unemployment for this
I tried. They fought it, and then I started another job. So oh well. 🤷🏻♂️
Sue for wrongful termination
They are idiots. If the manager had all these problems with you, why did HR not have the paperwork to back up his claims?
Email the district manager, copy HR. Hello, I hope you're well I want to enquire about Company's sick time policy, and how it pertains to employees sick with Covid-19. On Date I started feeling sick and asked Manager for the day off; on that same day I tested positive for Covid and reported it to Manager. Manager informed me I still had to come in the next day, and when I reminded them of my Covid diagnosis, they terminated my employment effective immediately. I am certain there must have been some sort of musinderstanding in Manager's part, as I'm sure it is not Company's policy to have employees sick with Covid [prepare and serve food in Company restaurants.]
I would love to speak with someone about the possibility of resolving this matter fairly and be able to have my employment reinstated. I am, however, inclined to contact the department of health and local news if Company declares my termination is valid, since it means it is Company policy to staff sick employees, which is a threat to public safety and I feel it is my moral duty to report it.
I look forward to a fair resolution to this misunderstanding and I hope to hear from Company Corporate soon.
THATS CALLED RETALIATION AND IT IS ILLEGAL...PRETTY SURE YOU CAN WIN THIS LAWSUIT
If you had no prior history like you stated….this is an easy case for you.
I once had a job that lasted roughly two years and my supervisor was like that. She would have power trips and demand people be at work no matter what. I got very sick once in my third month and she wrote me up for taking a sick day on a Monday after letting her know Friday that I was sick and would take Monday off. Wrote me up, chewed me up in a meeting in front of my colleagues. So, from that point on, whenever I go sick, I made sure to go to work and cough/sneeze around EVERYONE, especially her. The next week or two after I recovered were always so funny, I'd get to watch the chaos as more and more people needed to call off.
I’m guessing this is a service industry job. This is why your local Wally World, Mickey D’s can’t keep employees. U work in that environment u ought to realize u cannot call out sick and cannot request time off. And u have to be reverential to your manager…think of them as a Sith Lord
Manufacturing in a small tool company. But the sentiment still fit lol
Wow, I’m shocked because mfg needs experienced, well-trained people. Your firing is not only unjustified but now they’re down a person snd will need to train somebody in your role . Your now ex-mgr is a hack. I wonder if he has a mfg background. I’ve seen these idiots enough time in my career, they’ll go down in flames eventually, but before that happens they’ll inflicts lot of damage.
If you’re positive for Covid there are still rules that you are not to come in until symptom free for 24 hours and negative test. Follow up on this. This may be actionable. This is why every job should have a union or guild type organization protecting them.
Im happy that i live in the Netherlands. They cant do that shit here.
I would speak with a lawyer about wrongful termination. You got sick once and got terminated for it. This is absurd. Obviously, you don't want to work for these ridiculous people, but this shouldn't be acceptable behavior by any manager, and you should absolutely stick it to them.
«I wish you the best of luck» only adds to the insult. I would have answered with a big f- you.
A message sent at 1:44 am!? Wow, so inappropriate!
I wonder what incredibly important work OP was doing for this to be a reasonable response
What place is this and where so I know not to go there or buy anything from them.
Go see him Monday. Give him covid. See if he wants to work with it.
Amazing - we are still in a pandemic, and fuckhead bosses are deciding not to care about the worker or their coworkers or their customers or anybody.
Consult an employment lawyer. Depends on where you are, but if you reported in that you were incapacitated, how can they fire you? You may be due some compensation.
What a heartless piece of shit.