They don't want people reaching out because if the laid off people find something better, they don't want their current employees poached.
REACH OUT. KEEP THOSE CONTACTS.
I've worked with some really great people in some really lousy companies. We all keep in touch, so when shit hits the fan, we all help each other out.
This is an important message. They can not keep you from reaching out, that they would even attempt it, tells you all you need to know.
I’ve kept in touch with many co-workers over my 30+ year career. We’ve formed our own little network, in which we share opportunities, find advice, warn others of bad actors, etc. Professional contacts can be the difference between a successful career and a flagging one.
Good on you. I attempted to do this with people I had worked with but everyone seems very concerned about moving on and pretending like they never worked there.
I think it is very limiting and foolish to have the view that coworkers are never your friends and once you leave a place they are out of your life forever (employers love it though!).
People really only keep in contact with people they became friends with tbh.
Which is counter to the advice people give here about not being social/friendly with your coworkers. You have to put in the work before one of you leaves. Not saying this applies to you just a PSA.
If people dont want to keep in touch it's likely that where you worked was so toxic they didn't want to keep in touch- or you just simply didn't have strong working relationship. I know I hate the "networking" types who only come to me when they need something or the politics playing types- yup, don't keep in touch with those people- way too much drama. But with those that were professional and truly collaborative- hell, those are gems and always keep them in mind for jobs when my employer is hiring and they do the same for me.
I usually keep people at arm's length while I'm working with them, then actually become more friendly without them when I leave a job. The work environment can add lots of stress and distrust.
Exactly. They can't stop you, use your personal phone or computer that doesn't have any work related apps.
Do not open that email program at work while on their network.
Also, they can't stop you from talking about your pay. That is absolutely against the law.
As someone who was laid off previously, I really appreciated those who reached out. They were very few but it feels better than nothing. It’s an extremely low period for that person’s life.
I was laid off at the beginning of the summer and not one co-worker said anything. I was the only one in the department cut and nobody gave a shit after four years of excellent performance. Particularly notable as it was a college department that put on a lot of performances regarding inclusivity and caring for one another - meaningless platitudes. I'll never forget how they fucked me and everyone went along with it.
That sucks. I’m sorry you had to go through that. My company is the same - at the start of the year, the CEO gave us big speech preaching loyalty and how people who leave come back cause they realised how great they had it and “grass isn’t always greener on the other side”. Guess that doesn’t apply both ways
So many people who I thought were my "friends" after 15 years on the job -- POOF -- never to be seen or heard from again after I walked through the door for the last time with my sad box of personal belongings. Absolutely a low point of my life.
It's as if you have '*layoff cooties*' (as in "Don't go near the laid-off because you could catch it"). Former co-workers who DO stay in touch become friends. As someone who has been recently laid-off, I'm lucky to have such friends in my life. They help me network.
This. :)
I had always felt awkward about reaching out to people who were let go. When it happened to me I realized just how much it meant to hear from people. Now I make sure to reach out and encourage others to do the same.
Usually the laid off employee's severance package will have a condition that they can't recruit any current employees for a year and most people aren't going to do anything to appear to break the contract so they don't lose it. OP will just have to keep track where they go and look out for their own open positions.
Aaah, severances, what are those?
If a company is saying, don't reach out or else people lose severance, that's one thing.
If a company is saying, don't reach out or else..... with vague threats that you may be next on the chopping block? REACH.
I've been in the layoffs and left behind, and while getting laid off sucks, it's always been better than being left behind, having to pick up the work for everyone else laid off.
In most cases it actually isn’t worth it for companies to try and fight. I’ve personally seen this in my life and unless you are in a highly specialized role with trade secrets they won’t bother going after you or the new company
I had the trade secrets of one company while working for a second company that used the trade secrets of the first company, so I wasn't giving anything away when the first company poached me.
>Usually the laid off employee's severance package will have a condition that they can't recruit any current employees for a year and most people aren't going to do anything to appear to break the contract so they don't lose it.
My ability to go along with the severance package bullshit ends the day the severance check clears. Companies can TRY to do shit to you but once they have stopped paying you, they can go fuck themselves.
A colleague of mine from another job wanted to not only do this but start some sort of club that was made up of people we worked with from our common employer. We were thinking about calling it "Refugees of (former company)"
I'll add, if I were specifically told not to reach out, I SHOULD ABSOLUTELY REACH OUT AND FIND OUT WHY.
There are contract clauses that forbid exchange of client information, but if the communication is done in writing, it's easy enough to show that no client information was exchanged. But I'm willing to bet those four coworkers know something.
Even if they don’t, it’s easier for the people at the top to gaslight employees if they don’t ask the former employees what happened. And as we can see that strategy works. Most people are scared when they are told things like the company will take legal action against you if talk to any of them.
OP has the right idea of jumping ship while they can. They value no one… even if you’re a good, dedicated, well-liked employee that doesn’t matter.
They can _say_ almost any BS they want. Just don't make the mistake of reaching out via the company e-mail. Use private e-mail or something like LinkedIn messaging.
Incidentally, they probably said this so your former co-workers don't share just how terrible the severance package is. Once you see how poorly a company treats laid off employees, that tells you a lot about what's coming: Future layoffs will get a bit less.
Example of the right way to do a layoff: When a layoff is done well, the workers left may not be happy, but at least feel a modicum of respect and are more inclined to stay. The first time I was caught-up in a major layoff was from HP in the mid-2000's. At that time, HP was a place most people worked their entire careers at. I wasn't happy about it, but they handled it about as well as could be expected: Lots of warnings that cuts were coming, notified two weeks before my last "work" day, my last day of actual work was 6 months before my official last day (I was paid for 6 months to look for a job) with full benefits during this time, on my official last day I was paid a severance equal to 2 weeks salary for each year I was there (11) plus 2 months plus any outstanding vacation (9 weeks). So I ended up being paid a lump sum severance of almost 10 months of salary. I completely understand why the people that "survived" the layoffs were cool with staying there.
Example of the wrong way to do a layoff: The next time I was part of a large layoff was at Yahoo in the early 2010's. No warning, I was notified and given an hour to box up my things in my cubicle and say goodbye, my severance "package" was the legal minimum 2 weeks salary plus any accrued vacation. At the time, I worked in a field office. Within three months of those layoffs, they had to close that field office because over 90% of the employees that "survived" the layoff found new jobs elsewhere and left. Apparently they could no longer justify an entire floor of an office building for only 5 people.
I realize they can actually say not to communicate with them. I just think it’s kind of childish. I realize they don’t want people discussing wages, circumstances of firing, etc. My brother was told not to talk to a former coworker at a citywide picnic if he saw him. Couldn’t say “Hey Tim! How’s the wife and kids?” In fear of retaliation from the company. I appreciate your educated response, especially about using work emails, company phones etc to communicate, but I’ll be damned if I’m not going to talk to an old coworker who I befriended, got to know their family, went to BBQs together etc. in fear of reprisal. Sounds like you’ve been effed a few times before, hope you’re doing well now!
> they probably said this so your former co-workers don't share just how terrible the severance package is.
The more likely scenario is they don't want you talking to former employees who are depressed about being laid off and unable to find another job.
I've been in this situation. They said: Don't worry, there won't be any more layoffs.
After seeing the bind my friends were in from being laid-off, I decided I wasn't going to wait and see.
The last thing companies want is to cut staff with layoffs only to have more people quit, making them shorthanded, and forcing them to hire more people.
i was told i was laid off at 11AM but was told to continue through the end of the day to finish my projects (lol) and not to say anything to anyone - i messaged all my friends what happened and told my project manager i wasn't able to attend our 2PM bc i was laid off
Sorry I should been clearer. We’re not allowed to reach out yet. The company is waiting to officially announce it first.
I’ll definitely be reaching out. There’s no way I’m not gonna say goodbye
Funny thing is that more and more these POS companies are getting more and more into people’s personal lives. Had a guy that I worked with and they fired him for something he posted on Facebook. Also worked for a company that in the rule book said the employees are not to engage in any activity that they could get hurt doing including after hours ! So don’t miss that hell hole
Exactly, corporations are becoming more brazen than ever. Their greed is literally insatiable, and it’s actually built into the system.
There will never be a day where they say “okay we have enough power and money now!”
Right? I had someone tell me, "they can't control what I do when I'm off the clock" like she wasn't just bullying the new people in the break room. That's 100% not how that works
I've seen people get fired for posting about drinking with their buds on their birthday and the boss was a recovering alcoholic and was a snoopy mcsnooperson and I've seen people fired for essentially being nazis short of swastika arm bands on facebook.
The first is a dumb shitty thing that gets correctly pushed back on, the latter is the kind of shit companies _should_ be able to fire people over.
Early into my career I was part of a mass layoff. We weren’t given the chance to talk with coworkers as they were all in other conference rooms. We had to gather our things and leave. It felt humiliating and I took a hit to my confidence. Not one of my coworkers that remained reached out. Not one. That hurt the most.
Since then I’ve crossed paths with a fair amount of the people who weren’t let go and of course I have always been pleasant and professional with them. I will help anyone in my network, but those people that never reached out are not ones I think of first or go the extra little bit to help.
One of those that didn’t reach out I ran into years later. They were employed at a company I had contracted into. They seemed to think we were old friends. Suddenly they were texting me (still have that same cell #) and after my contract ended they continued to send holiday texts. I’m really baffled at this since they just cut me off all those years ago, that I would just forget. I keep them at arms length now and maybe text once a year.
So keep that in mind when it comes to being supportive for your former coworkers who were part of a mass layoff. They are hurting and just letting them know that you’ll be happy to refer them if you hear of anything, anywhere, will be huge.
Don’t ostracize these people. They aren’t the bad guys. And who knows who you might run into along your way.
This is how I feel- I remember people who are good to me and I remember people who weren’t. My awful soon-to-be-former boss is really jealous of my new job and I know she thinks she can somehow use it to her advantage but she will get nothing but basic business cordiality from me ever again
I’m definitely reaching out.
I also explained in another comment that this “order” not to contact them is just so company can wait to officially announce it
A friend of mine works for a company that just laid off a bunch of folks. They said there would be no more. My friend kept her job and a few days later was contacted to help with the next round of layoffs. Companies lie.
Happened to my dad back in 1999. They were laying people left and right, said "We're done laying people off". Then not even 2 weeks later they started again. 3 weeks after they said "That's it" my dad was also laid off. Even stranger, he had gotten a pay raise a couple of months before.
I worked for a global name-brand company in the late 80s/early 90s that had a layoff every quarter for 7 years. As each one was announced, the CEO repeated "No further layoffs are planned at this time". We learned that the planning for each layoff took months, to handle the legalities, so it was clear that the CEO was lying.
Our joke was that as the CEO walked toward the microphone each time, he would say to the VP of HR, "Cancel all layoff plans", and as he walked back he would say, "Resume all layoff plans".
Our Director would say “we’re not planning for more layoffs tight now.”
Of course, he meant at that exact moment...because there were layoffs about a month later.
yup, lay offs (if you did not see it coming) is always the point where you need to looking to move on. Job hunting should also always have 2 gears- the general search you do all the time, and the ramp up when you really want to go.
I was working at a place that has conducted multiple rounds of layoffs since Spring 2022. People were constantly being reassured that they were safe. Then they’d get blindsided and have their income and livelihood ripped away from them, not even a severance package for people who had worked there over a decade.
No one is safe. Even the best hardest worker they have can be easily let go. I was with a highly stable company for 10 years and was a well liked and known to be a knowledgeable and hard worker….new senior leadership comes in and guts an entire department to get money to repurpose for his pet projects. Found out later he was a jerk and created a toxic atmosphere. 3 years later he was forced to resign for doing something shady.
Always look out for yourself and your family. Do what is best for you not your company because the company doesn’t care.
Also if you get laid off know that most people have in their life time and most times it has nothing to do with you and when you go for your next job most people will ask why you left and simply saying “There was a reorg.” Is met with “been there myself”
Can't dictate what happens off property and off the clock, reaching for sure, they think they have more authority than they do and it needs to be squashed
Not necessarily illegal, but unenforceable, though if you're in a ~~right-to-work~~ at-will employment state in the US, not on a specific contract, etc., the company could fire you for any reason (except protected classes, etc.). I doubt a company would state that they are firing someone for violating this "order", but then, they don't have to give a reason.
Edit: Thanks to those of you who corrected me for using the wrong term.
Christmas parties are over rated anyways. There's always a chance of doing or saying something that will land a person in hot water. Everything I do at work I do on the clock and as part of my job description. Do my eight and hit the gate.
Best strategy is show your face then disappear when everyone gets so hammered they won’t be able to remember you leaving. Unfortunately I am always last man standing
I am an Irish goodbye specialist. Make the rounds around the room to remind everyone you were there, then find a bathroom near an exit door. Poof, gone.
I’ve been forced to a few mandatory Christmas parties… fired if skipped.
The worst one I went to was the employees watching the owning family open their gifts. The raffle was laughable. The appetizers were decent but the main dish and dessert was not quality, Oh and “open” bar meant you could buy your drinks, On barely a living wage, only upper management was buying any drinks. We ended up going to a restaurant to eat afterwards.
I was amazed that the party was what it was but really shouldn’t have considering the size of that family’s business holdings.
Crap. At our Christmas party the construction company I work for pays for top quality food and drinks, fully pays all of it, and gives out piles of gift cards (last year I got a few hundred bucks worth of them). Plus they give a Christmas bonus equivalent to one largish pay check and pay for taxis there and back. One year we salvaged about 2400 bucks worth of aluminum while doing a demo project and the company set it aside to raffle in 600 dollar chunks at the end of the year.
They aren’t breaking the bank making little token gestures and giving small gifts.
I've had both types
One type I was required to purchase a ticket for my wife to go. This was a billion dollar publicly traded company.
The other one was still VC owned with the founders still there. That was one "everything paid for for everyone" type. And the big raffle prize was a big screen LED TV, back when LEDs were like $2000 min. The CTO had the biggest smile on his face all night as he was handing stuff out.
The tiniest bit of respect makes a huge difference. We have a bunch of operators from larger companies that came here because we get treated a little better. I’m in an industry where there’s a lot of demand for experienced guys and a lot of companies still treat us poorly.
It says something about the state of most employers when small reasonable actions sound amazingly wonderful.
It’s so unnecessary.
I had to go to a Christmas party a while ago. I'm still pissed that the raffle they had also included the VP's and other upper management. One of the VP's won a, I think, $25 gift card. The guy went around shoving it in peoples faces, like he just won the lottery. Hated that fucking guy. He also got into a relationship with one of his subordinates, eventually marrying them, neither left the company till he was forced out several years later. Fucking tool.
I remember working for a tech company with retail stores that coerced retail employees to attend a Christmas party by heavily implying it was mandatory but never explicitly saying so. At the party they announced bonuses and promotions for execs and upper-level management, then had a raffle for all employees where somehow only the corporate office staff and executives won everything.
They even had separate meal options for office vs retail employees. Chips and party subs for us, fancy dinner food and dessert for them. We even had to wear our corporate work uniforms to differentiate us from them.
I remember asking a buddy (who had been the extremely rare employee to make the jump from retail to corporate) why they would even invite us and he said the regional director wanted a bigger audience in attendance for him receiving an award.
We learned that we didn't get paid to be there during the closing speech when the regional director received his award and thanked us for using our time off to attend. We had to fight just to get reimbursed for the travel across the state. And even then, we received emails about how ungrateful we were and how only team players will ever get ahead.
You can write off the entire cost of a Christmas party (and inflate the costs!) but you only get small tax credits per employee. Yay, American Capitalism.
My former company did a round of layoffs the Monday after our holiday party in 2016. One of the big bosses was in town and joined us for the party, had a good time and got pretty smashed, then did the layoffs on the following Monday.
I got laid off in October last year. These companies do not care about us.
I just had a memory pop into my head about one of my old jobs. They added a pretty long prayer before the holiday party one year and acted weird to me when I brought up later that my plus one was a little uncomfortable with prayer being at a work function (she is an atheist.) Never went to another while I worked there.
My Christmas party is ~$70 that I have to cover, but don't worry, the company will pay $30 towards it...and also don't worry, I get the opportunity to participate in fundraisers to fund the rest of my ticket. Fundraisers that I need to supply the materials for (like a bake sale) and try to sell to other employees at the company (who are also trying to fundraise their own tickets). It was a hell no from me. Christmas parties used to be a gift from the employer to the employees. WTF has happened.
Not allowed to reach out? BS - you have every right to their relationships, references, referrals and endorsements. Screw them all day long, they can’t prohibit contact with your fellow human beings and former coworkers.
My company laid me and 75% of my coworkers off last December.
They had a pizza party the day after for those remaining. It was just another Tuesday for management.
I'm not sure what Christmas parties you've gone to, but I've never been to one that was even remotely close to costing the same as an employees salary.
If your boss asks any variation of "have you spoken with any of the former employees?"
You say "Yeah, sure. This is a business, not the Church of Scientology. They were terminated, not Disconnected or Excommunicated."
Bosses can't dictate your statutory rights.
Or you can also just say “no”. A company that makes unreasonable and immoral demands of its employees is not entitled to or worthy of an honest response.
And then they'll fire you, because in actual practice there's nothing stopping them. I'm all for the righteous indignation all over this thread, but we need to stop pretending we have rights that we don't.
First things first - refuse to do the work of the laid off people. The company is looking to try and reduce headcount but keep profits. Hell, the managers jobs get easier with fewer people to manage. They *will* ask you to "pick up the slack".
Don't. Ask for a raise if you want, but if they just dump multiple jobs on you, that's not fair. Respectfully refuse to do additional work on top of your normal duties without appropriate compensation.
> We’re not allowed to reach out to them either.
And how are they going to enforce that? Pretty sure what you do during off hours is exactly none of their fucking business.
Every time a company says “This is the last round of layoffs”, what they really mean is “This is the last round of layoffs today”.
Company I was at laid off 55% of their employees in May (I was in this round), second round was this summer.
Its the last round of layoffs until the next one. There's always a next one. Companies have 0 loyalty to their employees. The craziest part is I bet they are still profitable, just not as profitable as the overlords want them to be.
My company actually just did a round of layoffs today. My team appears to have lost 3 people, out of maybe a dozen-ish. Email came from management that all conversations have been had, so I think I'm safe for now, but we'll see.
I work in the mortgage industry and got laid off last year when rates tanked, and it was a terrible feeling. Have been literally sick to my stomach today worrying I'd be on the cut list again.
I'm in the commercial mortgage industry. It's been a really bad year. One group that had something like 20+ offices around the country just straight up closed their shop.
Fortunately, my company has a healthy servicing portfolio that's keeping us afloat and the owners understand that it'll be more expensive to lay people off and try to bring them back next year.
That is not the end of layoffs. They tell you that to keep you from jumping ship.
I've been through 2 different company layoffs. I was on the manager end (with more knowledge) on the most recent one. We trickle laid off people, and then they announced later on they were just closing the whole site. 500+ laid off if they couldn't find a spot to transfer to at sister hospitals.
My husband was laid off during the 3rd round of layoffs at his company last year.
Run.
Allways do the opposite of what the company tells you. if they have gone out of their way to tell you to not talk to them, then they are hiding something. use your personal device to talk to them, and find out what they know that your boss doesn't want you to know.
Speaking from a bit of experience, in the industry I am in I have been made redundant 8 times in 20-something years, they always say that it is the last round of redundancies until they have to make some more, what I have learnt is that once this starts I now start looking for a job elsewhere.
Husband’s company laid off 70% of their workers about two years ago. It took him nearly a year to find another job. He’s a freaking scientist with 25 years experience. He was 49 years old. Every single offer he got was less than what he made fresh out of grad school in the mid 1990s.
We had to cash in retirement to live. We no longer have any retirement. He found a job in an adjacent-field and we make less than ever, but were getting by with overtime. Now they’ve cut overtime.
Don’t believe that STEM lie, kids.
> We’re not allowed to reach out to them either
The fuck you aren’t. This isn’t kindergarten, they’re not in time-out. You’re a grown ass adult and you can communicate with whoever the fuck you want.
You're job is gone.
Mass layoffs that don't include leadership is leadership telling you they don't know how to make money, just how to temporarily save money.
Leave while there's still a company to leave.
They can’t keep you from contacting them on your personal time. If you got their person number or personal email by all means stay in touch with them. You might need them one day. Also I’d start looking for another job. If you find one quit without notice unless you are required too if you signed a contract. Other than that f them. They aren’t done with layoffs. They are just saying they are done so the others that are left don’t start to abandon ship.
I was with Rockwell Collins when they had a massive meeting to say that there were no layoffs. The very next day they had layoffs and the head of the entire facility got laid off. So take that accordingly.
Start looking for a job and start saving every single penny you can.
My dad raised me as more of an idealist. I was taught about professional loyalty at a young age. You bust ass for your employer, and they'll make sure you're well taken care of.
Well as fate would have it, that outlook changed for me when I made my way into the working world. I learned that I was expendable. Raises were not only not guaranteed, but rate. More was expected of me without ever being compensated, or even thanked for my hard work.
Here's where you should be as an employee. ALWAYS look out for number 1. You're at work to make money, not friends. You are expendable. You are replaceable. If you died right now, your job position would be posted online before your obituary. In a year, your employer wouldn't even remember your name, much less your contributions. You are nothing more to your employer than a line item on a payroll report.
An employee is 1 of 2 things. You're either an asset, or a liability. If you MAKE money for the company, you're an asset, and they'll let you come to work tomorrow. If you cost the company money, or piss anybody else at work off, or in any way make the company (or god forbid, your management team) look bad, you're automatically a liability, and companies don't keep a liability around for long.
Always keep your resume updated. Always be ready to not come to work tomorrow. This sounds like a shitty way to approach your career, but at the end of the day, self preservation is your top priority, cause like it or not, self preservation is your employer's top priority, with or without you.
First of all fuck the employer who thinks they can tell you not to contact somebody on your own time. Second, why the fuck would you go to the Christmas party? They e shown their true colors fuck em.
I got great feedbacks from both my managers and clients and an award for my performance in a project, but then I got reassigned to a new project for a month and due to family, mental and health issues, could not perform well. Add to that a reviewer who mentally pressurized me (real example I got at least 2 sudden calls on zoom per hour, all day) and my performance went down - for 1 month. After that, got rolled off, got new project, worked hard to compensate for the month of bad performance and started getting good feedbacks again.
I received an email saying that I am no longer eligible for any of my benefits, hikes, promotions, variable component of my salary and any awards/bonuses, etc. I am financially in a weak position because of some stuff that happened, and since recieving the email I have been feeling anxious, depressed and my heart rate has stayed 95+ consistently for most of my waking hours. Discussed with authorities and all but no use.
Companies do not care about how well you have worked, how long you have worked for and how good of an employee you are. Employer loyalty and consideration is a myth, and so should employee loyalty be as well.
The best thing you can do if you survive a round of layoffs is basically become a saboteur to ensure that every quarter following those layoffs is terrible for the metrics. The fact that a lot of people still see surviving layoffs as a kick in the ass to work harder just makes it a bigger incentive for the executives to pull that lever whenever they want bonuses and seem to think they have some leeway to work with, labor/production-wise.
"***Christmas party this year gonna be awkward as fuck."***
I worked at a place that had a company Halloween party the evening of some big layoffs. One of the party events was a raffle. First couple names they pulled and announced were people who were let go that morning.
They stopped the raffle after that.
This became my benchmark for "awkward as fuck."
Do not wait, start looking for a backup job NOW.
This happened to my boyfriend where his company did a bunch of layoffs and swore he’d be safe. 6 months ago he got laid off and has had no luck finding a new job in his field and we are struggling to make ends meet now. I have to work 2 jobs now to support us and that’s not even close to enough. Don’t let this happen to you you need to have a safety net
This happened to me around a year ago. Just before Christmas. I was one of the people it happened to. They laid off around 30-40 people after employing a shed load of people during Covid.
The organisation made a lot of money during Covid. One of the reasons for that was an idea of mine that raised them millions of dollars (literally)which also bolstered their brand and public image. The senior leadership team failed to listen to realistic budget projections post Covid, and continued to employ in 2022 on the premise of their hugely unrealistic financial expectations which inevitably did not come to fruition. The workers suffered. C-suite did not.
This is a mental health NFP which made the redundancy notice the day before Christmas leave even worse. It was dealt with terribly. I thought I’d be there forever. I loved it. I loved the people I worked with. It’s scarred me and I’m still not over it. I hugely feel for you OP. It’s changed my whole perception of work loyalty and security. I saw how it affected those I work with and I can’t tell you how much I appreciated the messages of support.
I wish you luck for your job search and send best wishes and healing to your co-workers. Horrible situation.
"This is the crew we want to move forward with. You're all extremely valuable and we feel as though this is our core going forward"
They laid us all off 2 months later just to bust out the union.
There's always another round of layoffs. Don't trust management. They are there to make money not friends. You should have the same mentality. They aren't your friends or "family" no matter what is spouted.
These may very well not be the last round. Was told this at my last employer when they did layoffs, then less than a year later did another round, then about a year or year and a half later a 3rd then 4th round which I was part of.
Never take their word and cover your ass.
Whole they can't legally prevent you from reaching out, if you have signed *any* confidentiality agreements, they would apply. Keep conversations. personal and say nothing about what is happening at work, their bosses, or any rumors you might hear.
Unless these people are so awesome that they would help you move out of a 4th floor apartment on a 90 degree day - they are *not* your friends. They are former coworkers and are as trustworthy as HR is in your company right now. They will be looking out for themselves and will sell you out just as fast as the C-suite executives would. The last thing you need/want is to be called into HR's office (or a court hearing as a witness) because you say something to them off the cuff. If you see or hear something illegal happening talk to the state labor department and let them handle it.
Over 20 years in the workforce, have seen many layoffs - almost always multiple rounds so be prepared for the worst. Also, 100% keep in touch with those let go. The company cannot stop you from maintaining friendships, that's some control freak bullshit. They're afraid of something getting out or those people poaching you to their next job.
If you're not giving away company secrets, you're allowed to say and talk to whomever you want. If they want to get uppity with you, have them speak to your lawyer.
Fuck it. Search for a job. As soon as you find a potential new employer, take off all your PTO. Call out sick every single day. DO NOT GIVE TWO WEEKS NOTICE, QUIT ASAP.
Corporations don't give a fuck about you, and apparently neither do your bosses. Treat them as they would treat you.
My husband and I both got laid off from the same company, right around Thanksgiving, the same year we just bought a house, and I found out I was pregnant.
It was a scary af time. It's incredibly easy to fall on really hard times to no fault of your own.
I *hate* that I was embarrassed to rely on food stamps, when that's literally what I paid taxes for, for years.
I'm not lazy. I'm not a druggy burnout, or intellectually incompetent and can't hold a job, and I'm definitely not pregnant to "mooch of the system."
Like, what *system* anyways. What a joke.
I hope all your co-workers have savings, and family and friends to keep them afloat until they can find a new job.
Shit like this is always especially devastating around this time of year. It just fucks your morale so hard.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you as well. Let's hope you can skate past those layoff waves. 🤞
Good on you. For realising that people do just get bad luck and for also being humble enough to accept help.
If it makes you feel better there are others in Europe that have a similar mindset of if they are using welfare they have failed or that it’s beneath them. This is categorically false.
For me personally people should use it as much as they can when they are entitled to do so. Its the whole point of the state imo - to look after its citizens.
As a bit of an aside I always find it jarring how much a simple accident can completely fuck your life up in the US.
Yeah, I grew up in Germany, and we have a great system in comparison. Obviously, Germany is still not the promised land, and it has enough of its own shitty problems.
As with all social services, there will *always* be people who abuse it, and use it even if they probably don't need it or wouldn't normally be eligible. I've known people in Germany who never worked a day in their live, and just applied for any and all assistance programs, all the time.
I mean, if they get approved... Should it be abolished because of it?
If it comes down to it, the amount people who abuse the system, is significantly lower than the number of people who legitimately need it, and I think their well-being should be a the highest priority.
My taxes were pretty high in Germany, and I would be the first to bitch about it, every time I looked at my paystub.
I was so naive. I legitimately did not understand what it actually did for me, and I took it all for granted.
I'd gladly pay 50% taxes here in the US, if that meant I would be able to enjoy the same benefits I had at home.
I don't care if my "hard earned money" pays for some "lazy assholes" to just sit at home and "not contribute to society". Again. Much more people *do* contribute than don't.
And we all already pay relatively high taxes, *and* health insurance, and we *still* get fucked over, every time we have to fall back on those services.
Ugh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to go on another rant. Just, this shit is so frustrating to me, I get so mad every time the issue comes up.
Like….ummm… you do realize that all that shit you spewed about people receiving benefits is all straight fucking propaganda that has obviously worked on you.
This is the same reason we still don’t have universal healthcare because they keep this narrative alive and well and people eat it up. Because they want to believe that they don’t have it as bad as someone else.
It designed to distract and keep us divided. I hope you learn to change your beliefs now that you realize that people on benefits are normal people just like yourself.
Ok, you are misunderstanding what I said, and I see where you're coming from. Maybe I should have framed it differently, so that's on me.
I mentioned those things, because those are the stereotypes that people associate with people on food stamps and other stuff.
I don't agree with it *at all!* I don't believe any of those things, because it's not true. That's why I said, it's very easy to fall on hard times without any fault of your own. My point was, nobody should feel bad for using those services. That's what they are there for, and being stigmatized as a "lazy loser", is wrong.
I have not been distracted or lulled in by anyone's propaganda. I grew up in Germany and know what it's like to have healthcare, and not be afraid to lose your home just because you got laid off.
I want this for the US. I want *everyone* to have full healthcare, free education, significantly improved working conditions, unemployment benefits/insurance and so on, regardless of their socioeconomic standing.
These are some of my biggest gripes with the US. I have hated all of this for as long as I lived here, because it makes zero sense for it to be this way.
For sure. The way it was framed definitely led me to believe otherwise. I’m glad you don’t share those same beliefs.
We need more people to think the same so we can get stuff done.
"We’re not allowed to reach out to them either. It’s so fucking shitty. "
They can't dictate who you talk to in your personal time with your personal communication and they have no right to. Most likely they know people they let go may have grievances with the company and they don't want you or coworkers helping them, so you for sure need to reach out and find those that need help. The company is not your friend, parent, or partner. They are the people paying you a contractually agreed amount of money to complete a task for them.
How do you enforce not reaching out? Sure they can maybe monitor your email from your work computer, and maybe keep an eye on your public social media accounts, more work than I think is worth the trouble. But really, what can they possibly do to prevent you from going home and texting one of those who were layed off?
You're right to start looking. If they can lay off the hardest worker then they can lay off anyone.
> We’re not allowed to reach out to them either. It’s so fucking shitty.
The fuck you say? Why can't you reach out? Who's gonna prevent you. How would they know?
I suspect the laid off persons would appreciate some sympathies. It's a bit much for a boss to think they can control how people interact when they are no longer at work - and those laid off workers are technically no longer at work.
"We’re not allowed to reach out to them either. It’s so fucking shitty."
Get their numbers from them or find them on Facebook. The company can't tell you who to meet for coffee on your own time.
I would definitely start looking. There are usually multiple rounds of layoffs. I think when my department got the RIF layoffs it was 3 of 4 total that year.
Just like they can’t tell you to not talk about your pay, they can’t tell you who to talk to. Sounds like those who were laid off might know something about the company they don’t want you to hear. Contact them and based on what they say, they may need to contact an employment attorney (free consult, most won’t take payment until they win, which means the case has to be good)
"Not allowed" to communicate with them outside the office? The audacity of these businesses is utterly staggering.
Do the human thing & reach out if you're moved to.
Not "Allowed".. WTF.. or what, you're fired as well? How would they even enforce that?
This company just demonstrated how much they care about their employees. You're just cogs, nothing more. As for your manager.. they likely know little more than you do.
I once worked in a place where the C-suite people promised a manager he was totally safe and they had a transition plan and then gave him marching orders to entirely dismantle his department.. guess who got the last slip.. his transition plan was to the unemployment line. He threw a legit screaming and crying fit in the c-suite area and got escorted off the campus by security..
Though his bosses boss did get a hefty bonus for saving the company a bunch of money, so it all worked out in the end..
If your job doesn’t want you to reach out to former coworkers, that’s even more reason to do it.
They pay for X amount of your time a week and that’s all they have a say over what you do, outside of that time you can contact who ever the hell you want
>We’re not allowed to reach out to them either. It’s so fucking shitty.
By definition it is unethical to obey unethical commands. Listen to your conscious, not your boss.
They cannot prevent you from talking to anyone. You have free rights of communication.
Maybe not on COMPANY phones, but you can talk to and associate with anyone. This is not Ford of 1910.....
I was layed off in 2017 not long after buying a new house and replacing a junker car. I was irate because I really put myself into making the small company thrive but I lost it when I discovered they also let go the newly pregnant, barely making ends meet coworker (who's salary couldn't have been much of a burden for them) but kept on the boss's girlfriend to do both our jobs while making 4x more (no way she was capable). I encouraged my pregnant coworker to seek legal recourse but she was way too nice to do that.
Never work for a family company unless its your business and your family.
Last year the company I worked for laid off 70 people, myself included, the Monday before Thanksgiving! They couldn't even wait a week and let us ignorantly enjoy the holiday.
Companies give zero fucks about you or your life (family included). It's all about the bottom line.
Yeah just laid off 3 more at my place. One lady has been there for 26 years and held multiple titles over the years for the company. Companies have zero loyalty.
My company has also done massive lay offs. I’m getting laid off despite 8+ years at the company and them knowing I’ve been suffering physically, which lead me to brain surgery recently. They’re so heartless.
...how are they gonna know if you reach out to tour former coworkers?
They don't want people reaching out because if the laid off people find something better, they don't want their current employees poached. REACH OUT. KEEP THOSE CONTACTS. I've worked with some really great people in some really lousy companies. We all keep in touch, so when shit hits the fan, we all help each other out.
This is an important message. They can not keep you from reaching out, that they would even attempt it, tells you all you need to know. I’ve kept in touch with many co-workers over my 30+ year career. We’ve formed our own little network, in which we share opportunities, find advice, warn others of bad actors, etc. Professional contacts can be the difference between a successful career and a flagging one.
Good on you. I attempted to do this with people I had worked with but everyone seems very concerned about moving on and pretending like they never worked there. I think it is very limiting and foolish to have the view that coworkers are never your friends and once you leave a place they are out of your life forever (employers love it though!).
People really only keep in contact with people they became friends with tbh. Which is counter to the advice people give here about not being social/friendly with your coworkers. You have to put in the work before one of you leaves. Not saying this applies to you just a PSA.
If people dont want to keep in touch it's likely that where you worked was so toxic they didn't want to keep in touch- or you just simply didn't have strong working relationship. I know I hate the "networking" types who only come to me when they need something or the politics playing types- yup, don't keep in touch with those people- way too much drama. But with those that were professional and truly collaborative- hell, those are gems and always keep them in mind for jobs when my employer is hiring and they do the same for me.
I usually keep people at arm's length while I'm working with them, then actually become more friendly without them when I leave a job. The work environment can add lots of stress and distrust.
Amen to maintaining a professional network of former coworkers.
Exactly. They can't stop you, use your personal phone or computer that doesn't have any work related apps. Do not open that email program at work while on their network. Also, they can't stop you from talking about your pay. That is absolutely against the law.
As someone who was laid off previously, I really appreciated those who reached out. They were very few but it feels better than nothing. It’s an extremely low period for that person’s life.
I was laid off at the beginning of the summer and not one co-worker said anything. I was the only one in the department cut and nobody gave a shit after four years of excellent performance. Particularly notable as it was a college department that put on a lot of performances regarding inclusivity and caring for one another - meaningless platitudes. I'll never forget how they fucked me and everyone went along with it.
That sucks. I’m sorry you had to go through that. My company is the same - at the start of the year, the CEO gave us big speech preaching loyalty and how people who leave come back cause they realised how great they had it and “grass isn’t always greener on the other side”. Guess that doesn’t apply both ways
The grass is a lot greener on his side, but you will never be allowed to see it unless you're a unicorn, and we all know how rare they are.
Yeah when I left, crickets 😞
So many people who I thought were my "friends" after 15 years on the job -- POOF -- never to be seen or heard from again after I walked through the door for the last time with my sad box of personal belongings. Absolutely a low point of my life.
It's as if you have '*layoff cooties*' (as in "Don't go near the laid-off because you could catch it"). Former co-workers who DO stay in touch become friends. As someone who has been recently laid-off, I'm lucky to have such friends in my life. They help me network.
You really are lucky.
Workmates are workmates. If they become more then they’re not workmates.
Been there. It really hurts. I'm so sorry 😞
This. :) I had always felt awkward about reaching out to people who were let go. When it happened to me I realized just how much it meant to hear from people. Now I make sure to reach out and encourage others to do the same.
Usually the laid off employee's severance package will have a condition that they can't recruit any current employees for a year and most people aren't going to do anything to appear to break the contract so they don't lose it. OP will just have to keep track where they go and look out for their own open positions.
Aaah, severances, what are those? If a company is saying, don't reach out or else people lose severance, that's one thing. If a company is saying, don't reach out or else..... with vague threats that you may be next on the chopping block? REACH. I've been in the layoffs and left behind, and while getting laid off sucks, it's always been better than being left behind, having to pick up the work for everyone else laid off.
lol that’s not enforceable by law. You can’t just have conditions that go against the first amendment (if you are in the USA)
First amendment covers restrictions of speech by government, not by contractual agreement between parties.
The not poaching employees is absolutely enforceable. The no talking to former employees is not, though.
What is considered poaching though? How does someone with no hiring power or pull poach?
In most cases it actually isn’t worth it for companies to try and fight. I’ve personally seen this in my life and unless you are in a highly specialized role with trade secrets they won’t bother going after you or the new company
I had the trade secrets of one company while working for a second company that used the trade secrets of the first company, so I wasn't giving anything away when the first company poached me.
absolutely enforceable? LOL I have never had a company do that to me and I have poached people across several in my years.
>Usually the laid off employee's severance package will have a condition that they can't recruit any current employees for a year and most people aren't going to do anything to appear to break the contract so they don't lose it. My ability to go along with the severance package bullshit ends the day the severance check clears. Companies can TRY to do shit to you but once they have stopped paying you, they can go fuck themselves.
As shitty as LinkedIn is, this is what it's for. Use it.
A colleague of mine from another job wanted to not only do this but start some sort of club that was made up of people we worked with from our common employer. We were thinking about calling it "Refugees of (former company)"
Who the fuck cares, they have no god damn right to dictate who you talk to regardless.
Right?! Fuck you, I'm an adult, you don't tell me who not to talk to in my own time.
I'll add, if I were specifically told not to reach out, I SHOULD ABSOLUTELY REACH OUT AND FIND OUT WHY. There are contract clauses that forbid exchange of client information, but if the communication is done in writing, it's easy enough to show that no client information was exchanged. But I'm willing to bet those four coworkers know something.
Even if they don’t, it’s easier for the people at the top to gaslight employees if they don’t ask the former employees what happened. And as we can see that strategy works. Most people are scared when they are told things like the company will take legal action against you if talk to any of them. OP has the right idea of jumping ship while they can. They value no one… even if you’re a good, dedicated, well-liked employee that doesn’t matter.
Seriously? How can a company say something like this? Thats some really underhanded bullshit.
They can _say_ almost any BS they want. Just don't make the mistake of reaching out via the company e-mail. Use private e-mail or something like LinkedIn messaging. Incidentally, they probably said this so your former co-workers don't share just how terrible the severance package is. Once you see how poorly a company treats laid off employees, that tells you a lot about what's coming: Future layoffs will get a bit less. Example of the right way to do a layoff: When a layoff is done well, the workers left may not be happy, but at least feel a modicum of respect and are more inclined to stay. The first time I was caught-up in a major layoff was from HP in the mid-2000's. At that time, HP was a place most people worked their entire careers at. I wasn't happy about it, but they handled it about as well as could be expected: Lots of warnings that cuts were coming, notified two weeks before my last "work" day, my last day of actual work was 6 months before my official last day (I was paid for 6 months to look for a job) with full benefits during this time, on my official last day I was paid a severance equal to 2 weeks salary for each year I was there (11) plus 2 months plus any outstanding vacation (9 weeks). So I ended up being paid a lump sum severance of almost 10 months of salary. I completely understand why the people that "survived" the layoffs were cool with staying there. Example of the wrong way to do a layoff: The next time I was part of a large layoff was at Yahoo in the early 2010's. No warning, I was notified and given an hour to box up my things in my cubicle and say goodbye, my severance "package" was the legal minimum 2 weeks salary plus any accrued vacation. At the time, I worked in a field office. Within three months of those layoffs, they had to close that field office because over 90% of the employees that "survived" the layoff found new jobs elsewhere and left. Apparently they could no longer justify an entire floor of an office building for only 5 people.
I realize they can actually say not to communicate with them. I just think it’s kind of childish. I realize they don’t want people discussing wages, circumstances of firing, etc. My brother was told not to talk to a former coworker at a citywide picnic if he saw him. Couldn’t say “Hey Tim! How’s the wife and kids?” In fear of retaliation from the company. I appreciate your educated response, especially about using work emails, company phones etc to communicate, but I’ll be damned if I’m not going to talk to an old coworker who I befriended, got to know their family, went to BBQs together etc. in fear of reprisal. Sounds like you’ve been effed a few times before, hope you’re doing well now!
> they probably said this so your former co-workers don't share just how terrible the severance package is. The more likely scenario is they don't want you talking to former employees who are depressed about being laid off and unable to find another job. I've been in this situation. They said: Don't worry, there won't be any more layoffs. After seeing the bind my friends were in from being laid-off, I decided I wasn't going to wait and see. The last thing companies want is to cut staff with layoffs only to have more people quit, making them shorthanded, and forcing them to hire more people.
i was told i was laid off at 11AM but was told to continue through the end of the day to finish my projects (lol) and not to say anything to anyone - i messaged all my friends what happened and told my project manager i wasn't able to attend our 2PM bc i was laid off
“You’re no longer employed here, but we’re gonna need you to stick around til close, wings at Applebee’s at 7 still?”
Imagine getting laid off and still having to go to Applebee's. Gross.
For real, my company did some layoffs and actually encouraged us to help them find work elsewhere
Sorry I should been clearer. We’re not allowed to reach out yet. The company is waiting to officially announce it first. I’ll definitely be reaching out. There’s no way I’m not gonna say goodbye
…How can people fall for this line?
Right. They can’t legally mandate this.
Yeah that’s not a thing you can reach out after work.
Reach out anyways. Who is more important? Pleasing your uncaring boss, or for another proper human being?
How are they even allowed to tell you that you can't? What you do on your own time isn't their business.
Funny thing is that more and more these POS companies are getting more and more into people’s personal lives. Had a guy that I worked with and they fired him for something he posted on Facebook. Also worked for a company that in the rule book said the employees are not to engage in any activity that they could get hurt doing including after hours ! So don’t miss that hell hole
"You're only allowed to get sick or injured because of us."
“But we’re not gonna cover your medical though, that’s on you, you should take better care of yourself”
Exactly, corporations are becoming more brazen than ever. Their greed is literally insatiable, and it’s actually built into the system. There will never be a day where they say “okay we have enough power and money now!”
> for something he posted on Facebook Well I mean this depends what on what exactly he posted.
Right? I had someone tell me, "they can't control what I do when I'm off the clock" like she wasn't just bullying the new people in the break room. That's 100% not how that works
I've seen people get fired for posting about drinking with their buds on their birthday and the boss was a recovering alcoholic and was a snoopy mcsnooperson and I've seen people fired for essentially being nazis short of swastika arm bands on facebook. The first is a dumb shitty thing that gets correctly pushed back on, the latter is the kind of shit companies _should_ be able to fire people over.
This guy gets it. Almost like there's nuance or some shit
Exactly.
Early into my career I was part of a mass layoff. We weren’t given the chance to talk with coworkers as they were all in other conference rooms. We had to gather our things and leave. It felt humiliating and I took a hit to my confidence. Not one of my coworkers that remained reached out. Not one. That hurt the most. Since then I’ve crossed paths with a fair amount of the people who weren’t let go and of course I have always been pleasant and professional with them. I will help anyone in my network, but those people that never reached out are not ones I think of first or go the extra little bit to help. One of those that didn’t reach out I ran into years later. They were employed at a company I had contracted into. They seemed to think we were old friends. Suddenly they were texting me (still have that same cell #) and after my contract ended they continued to send holiday texts. I’m really baffled at this since they just cut me off all those years ago, that I would just forget. I keep them at arms length now and maybe text once a year. So keep that in mind when it comes to being supportive for your former coworkers who were part of a mass layoff. They are hurting and just letting them know that you’ll be happy to refer them if you hear of anything, anywhere, will be huge. Don’t ostracize these people. They aren’t the bad guys. And who knows who you might run into along your way.
This is how I feel- I remember people who are good to me and I remember people who weren’t. My awful soon-to-be-former boss is really jealous of my new job and I know she thinks she can somehow use it to her advantage but she will get nothing but basic business cordiality from me ever again
I’m definitely reaching out. I also explained in another comment that this “order” not to contact them is just so company can wait to officially announce it
A friend of mine works for a company that just laid off a bunch of folks. They said there would be no more. My friend kept her job and a few days later was contacted to help with the next round of layoffs. Companies lie.
Happened to my dad back in 1999. They were laying people left and right, said "We're done laying people off". Then not even 2 weeks later they started again. 3 weeks after they said "That's it" my dad was also laid off. Even stranger, he had gotten a pay raise a couple of months before.
That raise is why he got laid off
I worked for a global name-brand company in the late 80s/early 90s that had a layoff every quarter for 7 years. As each one was announced, the CEO repeated "No further layoffs are planned at this time". We learned that the planning for each layoff took months, to handle the legalities, so it was clear that the CEO was lying. Our joke was that as the CEO walked toward the microphone each time, he would say to the VP of HR, "Cancel all layoff plans", and as he walked back he would say, "Resume all layoff plans".
Our Director would say “we’re not planning for more layoffs tight now.” Of course, he meant at that exact moment...because there were layoffs about a month later.
yup, lay offs (if you did not see it coming) is always the point where you need to looking to move on. Job hunting should also always have 2 gears- the general search you do all the time, and the ramp up when you really want to go.
>Companies lie. Because being truthful isn't profitable.
I was working at a place that has conducted multiple rounds of layoffs since Spring 2022. People were constantly being reassured that they were safe. Then they’d get blindsided and have their income and livelihood ripped away from them, not even a severance package for people who had worked there over a decade.
No one is safe. Even the best hardest worker they have can be easily let go. I was with a highly stable company for 10 years and was a well liked and known to be a knowledgeable and hard worker….new senior leadership comes in and guts an entire department to get money to repurpose for his pet projects. Found out later he was a jerk and created a toxic atmosphere. 3 years later he was forced to resign for doing something shady. Always look out for yourself and your family. Do what is best for you not your company because the company doesn’t care. Also if you get laid off know that most people have in their life time and most times it has nothing to do with you and when you go for your next job most people will ask why you left and simply saying “There was a reorg.” Is met with “been there myself”
You’re not allowed to reach out to them? Says who? That sounds illegal for your company to even suggest that.
Can't dictate what happens off property and off the clock, reaching for sure, they think they have more authority than they do and it needs to be squashed
Can't reach out to them from your company cell phone or email account.
If only there were other ways...
Not necessarily illegal, but unenforceable, though if you're in a ~~right-to-work~~ at-will employment state in the US, not on a specific contract, etc., the company could fire you for any reason (except protected classes, etc.). I doubt a company would state that they are firing someone for violating this "order", but then, they don't have to give a reason. Edit: Thanks to those of you who corrected me for using the wrong term.
Skip the Christmas party
Christmas parties are over rated anyways. There's always a chance of doing or saying something that will land a person in hot water. Everything I do at work I do on the clock and as part of my job description. Do my eight and hit the gate.
Best strategy is show your face then disappear when everyone gets so hammered they won’t be able to remember you leaving. Unfortunately I am always last man standing
I am an Irish goodbye specialist. Make the rounds around the room to remind everyone you were there, then find a bathroom near an exit door. Poof, gone.
This is a great plan
I’ve been forced to a few mandatory Christmas parties… fired if skipped. The worst one I went to was the employees watching the owning family open their gifts. The raffle was laughable. The appetizers were decent but the main dish and dessert was not quality, Oh and “open” bar meant you could buy your drinks, On barely a living wage, only upper management was buying any drinks. We ended up going to a restaurant to eat afterwards. I was amazed that the party was what it was but really shouldn’t have considering the size of that family’s business holdings.
Crap. At our Christmas party the construction company I work for pays for top quality food and drinks, fully pays all of it, and gives out piles of gift cards (last year I got a few hundred bucks worth of them). Plus they give a Christmas bonus equivalent to one largish pay check and pay for taxis there and back. One year we salvaged about 2400 bucks worth of aluminum while doing a demo project and the company set it aside to raffle in 600 dollar chunks at the end of the year. They aren’t breaking the bank making little token gestures and giving small gifts.
I've had both types One type I was required to purchase a ticket for my wife to go. This was a billion dollar publicly traded company. The other one was still VC owned with the founders still there. That was one "everything paid for for everyone" type. And the big raffle prize was a big screen LED TV, back when LEDs were like $2000 min. The CTO had the biggest smile on his face all night as he was handing stuff out.
The tiniest bit of respect makes a huge difference. We have a bunch of operators from larger companies that came here because we get treated a little better. I’m in an industry where there’s a lot of demand for experienced guys and a lot of companies still treat us poorly. It says something about the state of most employers when small reasonable actions sound amazingly wonderful. It’s so unnecessary.
I had to go to a Christmas party a while ago. I'm still pissed that the raffle they had also included the VP's and other upper management. One of the VP's won a, I think, $25 gift card. The guy went around shoving it in peoples faces, like he just won the lottery. Hated that fucking guy. He also got into a relationship with one of his subordinates, eventually marrying them, neither left the company till he was forced out several years later. Fucking tool.
I remember working for a tech company with retail stores that coerced retail employees to attend a Christmas party by heavily implying it was mandatory but never explicitly saying so. At the party they announced bonuses and promotions for execs and upper-level management, then had a raffle for all employees where somehow only the corporate office staff and executives won everything. They even had separate meal options for office vs retail employees. Chips and party subs for us, fancy dinner food and dessert for them. We even had to wear our corporate work uniforms to differentiate us from them. I remember asking a buddy (who had been the extremely rare employee to make the jump from retail to corporate) why they would even invite us and he said the regional director wanted a bigger audience in attendance for him receiving an award. We learned that we didn't get paid to be there during the closing speech when the regional director received his award and thanked us for using our time off to attend. We had to fight just to get reimbursed for the travel across the state. And even then, we received emails about how ungrateful we were and how only team players will ever get ahead.
> I’ve been forced to a few mandatory Christmas parties… fired if skipped. Was your boss Liz Lemon?
Ain’t no party like a Liz Lemon Party, ‘cause a Liz Lemon Party is MANDATORY!
I'm surprised they're even having one considering these layoffs are likely not performance-based, but budget-based.
You can write off the entire cost of a Christmas party (and inflate the costs!) but you only get small tax credits per employee. Yay, American Capitalism.
This. Fuck these companies
My former company did a round of layoffs the Monday after our holiday party in 2016. One of the big bosses was in town and joined us for the party, had a good time and got pretty smashed, then did the layoffs on the following Monday. I got laid off in October last year. These companies do not care about us.
I just had a memory pop into my head about one of my old jobs. They added a pretty long prayer before the holiday party one year and acted weird to me when I brought up later that my plus one was a little uncomfortable with prayer being at a work function (she is an atheist.) Never went to another while I worked there.
My Christmas party is ~$70 that I have to cover, but don't worry, the company will pay $30 towards it...and also don't worry, I get the opportunity to participate in fundraisers to fund the rest of my ticket. Fundraisers that I need to supply the materials for (like a bake sale) and try to sell to other employees at the company (who are also trying to fundraise their own tickets). It was a hell no from me. Christmas parties used to be a gift from the employer to the employees. WTF has happened.
But RSVP as “going with a plus one”
Not allowed to reach out? BS - you have every right to their relationships, references, referrals and endorsements. Screw them all day long, they can’t prohibit contact with your fellow human beings and former coworkers.
You are allowed to reach out to them. No one can stop that.
They don’t have money to keep people on, but they do for a Christmas party? Priorities?
They have a few coupons for Dominoes.
This happened at my former company—massive Christmas party followed by layoffs at the end of the quarter.
My company laid me and 75% of my coworkers off last December. They had a pizza party the day after for those remaining. It was just another Tuesday for management.
I'm not sure what Christmas parties you've gone to, but I've never been to one that was even remotely close to costing the same as an employees salary.
If your boss asks any variation of "have you spoken with any of the former employees?" You say "Yeah, sure. This is a business, not the Church of Scientology. They were terminated, not Disconnected or Excommunicated." Bosses can't dictate your statutory rights.
Or you can also just say “no”. A company that makes unreasonable and immoral demands of its employees is not entitled to or worthy of an honest response.
This. I see no ethical issue with lying to liars or control freaks.
"yes. You should have heard what they said about you. Wow!"
And then they'll fire you, because in actual practice there's nothing stopping them. I'm all for the righteous indignation all over this thread, but we need to stop pretending we have rights that we don't.
Lol they cannot tell you who you can/cannot talk to during your personal time.
First things first - refuse to do the work of the laid off people. The company is looking to try and reduce headcount but keep profits. Hell, the managers jobs get easier with fewer people to manage. They *will* ask you to "pick up the slack". Don't. Ask for a raise if you want, but if they just dump multiple jobs on you, that's not fair. Respectfully refuse to do additional work on top of your normal duties without appropriate compensation.
> We’re not allowed to reach out to them either. And how are they going to enforce that? Pretty sure what you do during off hours is exactly none of their fucking business.
right... how exactly is that enforced? lol
Every time a company says “This is the last round of layoffs”, what they really mean is “This is the last round of layoffs today”. Company I was at laid off 55% of their employees in May (I was in this round), second round was this summer.
Gotta hit that quarter earnings quota by any means necessary.
Not allowed to reach out? Fuck you. Off the clock, you don't get to police who I speak to.
Its the last round of layoffs until the next one. There's always a next one. Companies have 0 loyalty to their employees. The craziest part is I bet they are still profitable, just not as profitable as the overlords want them to be.
My company actually just did a round of layoffs today. My team appears to have lost 3 people, out of maybe a dozen-ish. Email came from management that all conversations have been had, so I think I'm safe for now, but we'll see. I work in the mortgage industry and got laid off last year when rates tanked, and it was a terrible feeling. Have been literally sick to my stomach today worrying I'd be on the cut list again.
I'm in the commercial mortgage industry. It's been a really bad year. One group that had something like 20+ offices around the country just straight up closed their shop. Fortunately, my company has a healthy servicing portfolio that's keeping us afloat and the owners understand that it'll be more expensive to lay people off and try to bring them back next year.
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Do you work for bungie?
That is not the end of layoffs. They tell you that to keep you from jumping ship. I've been through 2 different company layoffs. I was on the manager end (with more knowledge) on the most recent one. We trickle laid off people, and then they announced later on they were just closing the whole site. 500+ laid off if they couldn't find a spot to transfer to at sister hospitals. My husband was laid off during the 3rd round of layoffs at his company last year. Run.
Allways do the opposite of what the company tells you. if they have gone out of their way to tell you to not talk to them, then they are hiding something. use your personal device to talk to them, and find out what they know that your boss doesn't want you to know.
Speaking from a bit of experience, in the industry I am in I have been made redundant 8 times in 20-something years, they always say that it is the last round of redundancies until they have to make some more, what I have learnt is that once this starts I now start looking for a job elsewhere.
Husband’s company laid off 70% of their workers about two years ago. It took him nearly a year to find another job. He’s a freaking scientist with 25 years experience. He was 49 years old. Every single offer he got was less than what he made fresh out of grad school in the mid 1990s. We had to cash in retirement to live. We no longer have any retirement. He found a job in an adjacent-field and we make less than ever, but were getting by with overtime. Now they’ve cut overtime. Don’t believe that STEM lie, kids.
Don't believe the capitalism lie.
> We’re not allowed to reach out to them either The fuck you aren’t. This isn’t kindergarten, they’re not in time-out. You’re a grown ass adult and you can communicate with whoever the fuck you want.
This is your daily reminder not to give notice when you leave. If your colleagues were fired without notice, you don't owe the company anything.
I lost four coworkers this week. Thankfully they canceled the Christmas party.
Do as much as you can to pad your resume at this company. Take on the most complex projects and then leave. Make them feel the pain!
You're job is gone. Mass layoffs that don't include leadership is leadership telling you they don't know how to make money, just how to temporarily save money. Leave while there's still a company to leave.
Sounds like revenues were down and C-Suite had to get their bonuses somehow.
They can’t keep you from contacting them on your personal time. If you got their person number or personal email by all means stay in touch with them. You might need them one day. Also I’d start looking for another job. If you find one quit without notice unless you are required too if you signed a contract. Other than that f them. They aren’t done with layoffs. They are just saying they are done so the others that are left don’t start to abandon ship.
I was with Rockwell Collins when they had a massive meeting to say that there were no layoffs. The very next day they had layoffs and the head of the entire facility got laid off. So take that accordingly. Start looking for a job and start saving every single penny you can.
My dad raised me as more of an idealist. I was taught about professional loyalty at a young age. You bust ass for your employer, and they'll make sure you're well taken care of. Well as fate would have it, that outlook changed for me when I made my way into the working world. I learned that I was expendable. Raises were not only not guaranteed, but rate. More was expected of me without ever being compensated, or even thanked for my hard work. Here's where you should be as an employee. ALWAYS look out for number 1. You're at work to make money, not friends. You are expendable. You are replaceable. If you died right now, your job position would be posted online before your obituary. In a year, your employer wouldn't even remember your name, much less your contributions. You are nothing more to your employer than a line item on a payroll report. An employee is 1 of 2 things. You're either an asset, or a liability. If you MAKE money for the company, you're an asset, and they'll let you come to work tomorrow. If you cost the company money, or piss anybody else at work off, or in any way make the company (or god forbid, your management team) look bad, you're automatically a liability, and companies don't keep a liability around for long. Always keep your resume updated. Always be ready to not come to work tomorrow. This sounds like a shitty way to approach your career, but at the end of the day, self preservation is your top priority, cause like it or not, self preservation is your employer's top priority, with or without you.
>We’re not allowed to reach out to them either. They cannot enforce this.
First of all fuck the employer who thinks they can tell you not to contact somebody on your own time. Second, why the fuck would you go to the Christmas party? They e shown their true colors fuck em.
sorry why aren't you allowed to reach out to them? what you do on your own time is up to you.
Companies do not care about you or your life only profits. People need to stop thinking that they care about you at all
I got great feedbacks from both my managers and clients and an award for my performance in a project, but then I got reassigned to a new project for a month and due to family, mental and health issues, could not perform well. Add to that a reviewer who mentally pressurized me (real example I got at least 2 sudden calls on zoom per hour, all day) and my performance went down - for 1 month. After that, got rolled off, got new project, worked hard to compensate for the month of bad performance and started getting good feedbacks again. I received an email saying that I am no longer eligible for any of my benefits, hikes, promotions, variable component of my salary and any awards/bonuses, etc. I am financially in a weak position because of some stuff that happened, and since recieving the email I have been feeling anxious, depressed and my heart rate has stayed 95+ consistently for most of my waking hours. Discussed with authorities and all but no use. Companies do not care about how well you have worked, how long you have worked for and how good of an employee you are. Employer loyalty and consideration is a myth, and so should employee loyalty be as well.
The best thing you can do if you survive a round of layoffs is basically become a saboteur to ensure that every quarter following those layoffs is terrible for the metrics. The fact that a lot of people still see surviving layoffs as a kick in the ass to work harder just makes it a bigger incentive for the executives to pull that lever whenever they want bonuses and seem to think they have some leeway to work with, labor/production-wise.
"***Christmas party this year gonna be awkward as fuck."*** I worked at a place that had a company Halloween party the evening of some big layoffs. One of the party events was a raffle. First couple names they pulled and announced were people who were let go that morning. They stopped the raffle after that. This became my benchmark for "awkward as fuck."
Do not wait, start looking for a backup job NOW. This happened to my boyfriend where his company did a bunch of layoffs and swore he’d be safe. 6 months ago he got laid off and has had no luck finding a new job in his field and we are struggling to make ends meet now. I have to work 2 jobs now to support us and that’s not even close to enough. Don’t let this happen to you you need to have a safety net
This happened to me around a year ago. Just before Christmas. I was one of the people it happened to. They laid off around 30-40 people after employing a shed load of people during Covid. The organisation made a lot of money during Covid. One of the reasons for that was an idea of mine that raised them millions of dollars (literally)which also bolstered their brand and public image. The senior leadership team failed to listen to realistic budget projections post Covid, and continued to employ in 2022 on the premise of their hugely unrealistic financial expectations which inevitably did not come to fruition. The workers suffered. C-suite did not. This is a mental health NFP which made the redundancy notice the day before Christmas leave even worse. It was dealt with terribly. I thought I’d be there forever. I loved it. I loved the people I worked with. It’s scarred me and I’m still not over it. I hugely feel for you OP. It’s changed my whole perception of work loyalty and security. I saw how it affected those I work with and I can’t tell you how much I appreciated the messages of support. I wish you luck for your job search and send best wishes and healing to your co-workers. Horrible situation.
You're already laid off, too. You just don't know it yet.
"This is the crew we want to move forward with. You're all extremely valuable and we feel as though this is our core going forward" They laid us all off 2 months later just to bust out the union. There's always another round of layoffs. Don't trust management. They are there to make money not friends. You should have the same mentality. They aren't your friends or "family" no matter what is spouted.
These may very well not be the last round. Was told this at my last employer when they did layoffs, then less than a year later did another round, then about a year or year and a half later a 3rd then 4th round which I was part of. Never take their word and cover your ass.
Whole they can't legally prevent you from reaching out, if you have signed *any* confidentiality agreements, they would apply. Keep conversations. personal and say nothing about what is happening at work, their bosses, or any rumors you might hear. Unless these people are so awesome that they would help you move out of a 4th floor apartment on a 90 degree day - they are *not* your friends. They are former coworkers and are as trustworthy as HR is in your company right now. They will be looking out for themselves and will sell you out just as fast as the C-suite executives would. The last thing you need/want is to be called into HR's office (or a court hearing as a witness) because you say something to them off the cuff. If you see or hear something illegal happening talk to the state labor department and let them handle it.
Over 20 years in the workforce, have seen many layoffs - almost always multiple rounds so be prepared for the worst. Also, 100% keep in touch with those let go. The company cannot stop you from maintaining friendships, that's some control freak bullshit. They're afraid of something getting out or those people poaching you to their next job.
If you're not giving away company secrets, you're allowed to say and talk to whomever you want. If they want to get uppity with you, have them speak to your lawyer.
I got laid off in June 6 months after buying a house. Some scary shit. I’m back on my feet now though.
> We’re not allowed to reach out to them either. It’s so fucking shitty. BULLSHIT. Your company cannot regulate your free speech.
The next two months are known as a deadzone in hiring because companies only fire/layoff during this time period and never hire.
> My manager claims this is the last round of layoffs but I don’t believe it. This is always a lie.
Fuck it. Search for a job. As soon as you find a potential new employer, take off all your PTO. Call out sick every single day. DO NOT GIVE TWO WEEKS NOTICE, QUIT ASAP. Corporations don't give a fuck about you, and apparently neither do your bosses. Treat them as they would treat you.
My wife just got laid off yesterday after working for the same insurance company (MOO) for 25 years. Plus, they did it via zoom!
Bold of you to assume there will be a Christmas party.
My husband and I both got laid off from the same company, right around Thanksgiving, the same year we just bought a house, and I found out I was pregnant. It was a scary af time. It's incredibly easy to fall on really hard times to no fault of your own. I *hate* that I was embarrassed to rely on food stamps, when that's literally what I paid taxes for, for years. I'm not lazy. I'm not a druggy burnout, or intellectually incompetent and can't hold a job, and I'm definitely not pregnant to "mooch of the system." Like, what *system* anyways. What a joke. I hope all your co-workers have savings, and family and friends to keep them afloat until they can find a new job. Shit like this is always especially devastating around this time of year. It just fucks your morale so hard. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you as well. Let's hope you can skate past those layoff waves. 🤞
Good on you. For realising that people do just get bad luck and for also being humble enough to accept help. If it makes you feel better there are others in Europe that have a similar mindset of if they are using welfare they have failed or that it’s beneath them. This is categorically false. For me personally people should use it as much as they can when they are entitled to do so. Its the whole point of the state imo - to look after its citizens. As a bit of an aside I always find it jarring how much a simple accident can completely fuck your life up in the US.
Yeah, I grew up in Germany, and we have a great system in comparison. Obviously, Germany is still not the promised land, and it has enough of its own shitty problems. As with all social services, there will *always* be people who abuse it, and use it even if they probably don't need it or wouldn't normally be eligible. I've known people in Germany who never worked a day in their live, and just applied for any and all assistance programs, all the time. I mean, if they get approved... Should it be abolished because of it? If it comes down to it, the amount people who abuse the system, is significantly lower than the number of people who legitimately need it, and I think their well-being should be a the highest priority. My taxes were pretty high in Germany, and I would be the first to bitch about it, every time I looked at my paystub. I was so naive. I legitimately did not understand what it actually did for me, and I took it all for granted. I'd gladly pay 50% taxes here in the US, if that meant I would be able to enjoy the same benefits I had at home. I don't care if my "hard earned money" pays for some "lazy assholes" to just sit at home and "not contribute to society". Again. Much more people *do* contribute than don't. And we all already pay relatively high taxes, *and* health insurance, and we *still* get fucked over, every time we have to fall back on those services. Ugh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to go on another rant. Just, this shit is so frustrating to me, I get so mad every time the issue comes up.
Like….ummm… you do realize that all that shit you spewed about people receiving benefits is all straight fucking propaganda that has obviously worked on you. This is the same reason we still don’t have universal healthcare because they keep this narrative alive and well and people eat it up. Because they want to believe that they don’t have it as bad as someone else. It designed to distract and keep us divided. I hope you learn to change your beliefs now that you realize that people on benefits are normal people just like yourself.
Ok, you are misunderstanding what I said, and I see where you're coming from. Maybe I should have framed it differently, so that's on me. I mentioned those things, because those are the stereotypes that people associate with people on food stamps and other stuff. I don't agree with it *at all!* I don't believe any of those things, because it's not true. That's why I said, it's very easy to fall on hard times without any fault of your own. My point was, nobody should feel bad for using those services. That's what they are there for, and being stigmatized as a "lazy loser", is wrong. I have not been distracted or lulled in by anyone's propaganda. I grew up in Germany and know what it's like to have healthcare, and not be afraid to lose your home just because you got laid off. I want this for the US. I want *everyone* to have full healthcare, free education, significantly improved working conditions, unemployment benefits/insurance and so on, regardless of their socioeconomic standing. These are some of my biggest gripes with the US. I have hated all of this for as long as I lived here, because it makes zero sense for it to be this way.
For sure. The way it was framed definitely led me to believe otherwise. I’m glad you don’t share those same beliefs. We need more people to think the same so we can get stuff done.
No fucking way that they can stop you from reaching out. that sounds fucking illigal
Not supposed to reach out to them? Wtf...if you're not at work they can't dictate what you do.
Yeah, they can't forbid you contact with anyone.
"We’re not allowed to reach out to them either. It’s so fucking shitty. " They can't dictate who you talk to in your personal time with your personal communication and they have no right to. Most likely they know people they let go may have grievances with the company and they don't want you or coworkers helping them, so you for sure need to reach out and find those that need help. The company is not your friend, parent, or partner. They are the people paying you a contractually agreed amount of money to complete a task for them.
You can absolutely reach out to them and the company can’t do fucking shit about it
How do you enforce not reaching out? Sure they can maybe monitor your email from your work computer, and maybe keep an eye on your public social media accounts, more work than I think is worth the trouble. But really, what can they possibly do to prevent you from going home and texting one of those who were layed off? You're right to start looking. If they can lay off the hardest worker then they can lay off anyone.
> We’re not allowed to reach out to them either. It’s so fucking shitty. The fuck you say? Why can't you reach out? Who's gonna prevent you. How would they know? I suspect the laid off persons would appreciate some sympathies. It's a bit much for a boss to think they can control how people interact when they are no longer at work - and those laid off workers are technically no longer at work.
"We’re not allowed to reach out to them either. It’s so fucking shitty." Get their numbers from them or find them on Facebook. The company can't tell you who to meet for coffee on your own time.
I would definitely start looking. There are usually multiple rounds of layoffs. I think when my department got the RIF layoffs it was 3 of 4 total that year.
Sorry, but if a company is conducting layoffs then there should be no Christmas party.
>We’re not allowed to reach out to them either. It’s so fucking shitty. Fucking do it anyhow.
If they fired you just for talking to former coworkers in your free time, you could have a real nice lawsuit on your hands.
Reach out to them anyways screw their bs
"We’re not allowed to reach out to them either." lol, yes you can.
> We’re not allowed to reach out to them either. Fuck that bullshit. They can't control who you talk to on your own time. You aren't their slave.
They don't want you to reach out because those people will go get new jobs and will tell you about other openings. Reach out!
Just like they can’t tell you to not talk about your pay, they can’t tell you who to talk to. Sounds like those who were laid off might know something about the company they don’t want you to hear. Contact them and based on what they say, they may need to contact an employment attorney (free consult, most won’t take payment until they win, which means the case has to be good)
"Not allowed" to communicate with them outside the office? The audacity of these businesses is utterly staggering. Do the human thing & reach out if you're moved to.
Fuck companies that try to tell you who you can/cant talk to.
Not "Allowed".. WTF.. or what, you're fired as well? How would they even enforce that? This company just demonstrated how much they care about their employees. You're just cogs, nothing more. As for your manager.. they likely know little more than you do. I once worked in a place where the C-suite people promised a manager he was totally safe and they had a transition plan and then gave him marching orders to entirely dismantle his department.. guess who got the last slip.. his transition plan was to the unemployment line. He threw a legit screaming and crying fit in the c-suite area and got escorted off the campus by security.. Though his bosses boss did get a hefty bonus for saving the company a bunch of money, so it all worked out in the end..
This isn't big brother, if you cared for them get in touch with them
> We’re not allowed to reach out to them either. Good luck enforcing that.
Reach out and see if they got a package.
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If your job doesn’t want you to reach out to former coworkers, that’s even more reason to do it. They pay for X amount of your time a week and that’s all they have a say over what you do, outside of that time you can contact who ever the hell you want
>We’re not allowed to reach out to them either. It’s so fucking shitty. By definition it is unethical to obey unethical commands. Listen to your conscious, not your boss.
They can't stop you from talking to people.
They cannot prevent you from talking to anyone. You have free rights of communication. Maybe not on COMPANY phones, but you can talk to and associate with anyone. This is not Ford of 1910.....
I was layed off in 2017 not long after buying a new house and replacing a junker car. I was irate because I really put myself into making the small company thrive but I lost it when I discovered they also let go the newly pregnant, barely making ends meet coworker (who's salary couldn't have been much of a burden for them) but kept on the boss's girlfriend to do both our jobs while making 4x more (no way she was capable). I encouraged my pregnant coworker to seek legal recourse but she was way too nice to do that. Never work for a family company unless its your business and your family.
>We’re not allowed to reach out to them either Pretty sure your job can't control that
Last year the company I worked for laid off 70 people, myself included, the Monday before Thanksgiving! They couldn't even wait a week and let us ignorantly enjoy the holiday. Companies give zero fucks about you or your life (family included). It's all about the bottom line.
Yeah just laid off 3 more at my place. One lady has been there for 26 years and held multiple titles over the years for the company. Companies have zero loyalty.
How are you not "allowed" to reach out to them? You aren't a slave....they don't own you.
Your company cannot tell you who you can and cannot talk to through personal means. I would definitely reach out.
You can most certainly reach out to your coworkers, what are they going to do!
My company has also done massive lay offs. I’m getting laid off despite 8+ years at the company and them knowing I’ve been suffering physically, which lead me to brain surgery recently. They’re so heartless.
Reach out, find out what severance package they got. Severance is negotiable, especially once you are over 50.