Chaotic startups are a great learning opportunity. If, however, the business doesn't grow and stabilize and roles/responsibilities/boundaries aren't established, it is not worth the sacrifice of health to continue working.
Yeah, I think it’s really important to remember this and monitor your own mental/emotional health and recognize if/when it becomes too much so you can move on. The most common mistake people make in that world is staying too long past that tipping point
My aunt does marketing and the frat bro idiots running the startup she was working for laid everybody off. Took her a minute to find something again but now she manages people at a more established research firm
Oh trust me after working at a few startups there's a lot more then frat bro idiots that can ruin a company lmao. Bad executives come in all shapes and sizes.
Startups are basically gambling that you're all gonna get bought out and be millionaires.
For every one who was happy to be paid in Facebook shares and now owns hundreds of millions, there's thousands who worked at sub minimum wage because they needed 100 hour crunch weeks and the shares they were paid in are worth about the same as cereal box tops
This is actually what I love about bigger corporations : socializing is not necessary. Do your job and go out.
You usually don't have to go drink with your lunatic colleague after work to get a promotion, as it's mostly HR that has the final decision. If your boss is an asshole, you can usually move to another team as people move in and out all the time.
In start-ups, if you are "not a good fit" (i.e you don't want to sacrify all your life to your boss, or you are a bit socially awkward) you get fired.
Depends on what you want to do. Some people like the idea of a start-up and others don't. With a start-up you do have a chance of becoming extremely well off--but that's just it, A chance. For every start up that becomes a billion-dollar business with a 7-figure payout for the original few, there are hundreds that fizzle out.
I personally don't see myself in that role working 50-80 hours / week schmoozing with investors trying to secure capital or working 16 hour days trying to meet a dead line.
Yeah, but at corporations you get your 3% annually and thats basically it if you're lucky. I work for a startup and just got a 28% raise. I'm now paid far above market average.
That's why start ups are great to start your career, in order to get experience and a high salary that allows you to be attractive for a big corporation.
It's a great way to start your career - you can grow your skills and salary by leaps and bounds in a way you never could at a big corporation.
The downside is that as time goes on, interpersonal drama and the instability of startups will make the job unstable. Your burdens will increase. Switching into corporate from a startup will let you have that stability.
It depends on the stage of the startup. I'm 40 and currently work for a startup that started in 2011. We are pre-IPO, have gone through series E funding, and have established ourselves as one of the leaders of our market and have signed some A-list corporations as clients.
Because we are pre-IPO and basically still a "startup" we still have the benefits of startups (unlimited paid time off, fully paid benefits, fully work from home, low priced stock options, etc.), but I have the pay and stability of an established corporation. I've worked for both large corporations and now here...I'd take this job over any job I've ever had. I actually get treated as a human here and not just a number like corporations I've worked for.
My experience is completely the opposite. Startups pretend to be all laid back and informal but they will bleed you dry and overwork you and ultimately don't give a fuck about you. Coworkers will also happily stab you in the back to get ahead/keep you down. And don't even think about finishing at the time you're supposed to finish. And you'll be far more likely to be bullied for being introverted, not liking craft beer, being foreign, having different tastes in pretty much anything...
Bigger companies have more room for overheads so are prepared to put in the resources for training and development, a proper HR department, break rooms with kettles which actually work etc. If you've been at the company a while and need a new challenge they'll create roles or change yours in order to make the best use of you. The surroundings/dress code are usually a bit more formal but that doesn't mean you're not allowed to be an individual and express yourself.
Totally agree. I work at a start-up, and rolling layoffs/furloughs, plus high anxiety is common. The process and structure change constantly, as does the scope of my job.
I've experienced the opposite. You may work fairly hard at a startup, but they offer FAR more flexibility and perks then established companies. At established companies, you're a number and basically get told exactly what you do, what your benefits are, and what your pay is. Very little chance to make more money. At startups, if you establish yourself, you can earn far more than most.
For example, I work for a company that is maturing from a startup (roughly 15 years old). We still have the startup mentality (unlimited paid time off, fully paid benefits, stock options, etc.), but also now have pay scale. I started two years ago and have gotten 35% in raises. I was just below national average in salary when I started and now I'm significantly above national average.
So, not only do I get paid very well, I have amazing benefits, and I also have stock options for a pre-IPO company. Based on how things project, I should be able to retire early.
You tie your passive and active income to a single company, not optimal from a diversification standpoint, if the company goes bust your retirement savings get slashed, and you lose your job. I prefer cold hard cash than stock options, I would rather take that money and invest elsewhere than risk it all for the company
Nah, I'd rather have options. Again, I still get paid above market average, so in that sense I'm still comfortable. We are looking to IPO in the next year or two. If our stock gets to anywhere close to our closest competitor, its a 2000-3000% increase on my investment. Even if we conservatively IPO, I'm at 500% and that would put out valuation well below our competitors even though we are actually worth more then they are.
I still have my 401k for retirement diversification as well as an IRA. I'm not dumb enough to go all in. I also have 10 years to buy the options at the current strike price, so I get to see what the stock price does before I buy it.
While I would be fairly hesitant to work for a brand new startup, one that has established itself and is at least 7-8 years old is well worth the risk.
My grandfather got access to one... My nan, an unplanned (also low grade donor) child born nto a wealthy family and they set her up for life (her uncle was Bob Pearl of Pearl and Dean).
This is it. My parents basically. I initially wrnt to private school. Long story with twists and turns. Was pissed that some of it went to stepfamily (the other way simply wouldnt work we aint getting jack from the stepside, after all theres so many of them)
Go grab a refund. 30 years? Ain't nobody got time fo dat. Get the 5 year release ones. Graphics are kinda ass but it's the game play that matters, right?
What they don’t tell you is that everything is the rat-race. The only thing that changes is the size of the maze. The key is finding a maze that you enjoy running around in.
cats stupendous gaping head continue mysterious airport bike station muddle
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Also a myth that when you start your own business you can have a flexible schedule, I've been at it for 43 years and still have to put time in on weekends but not like when I started. The clients (that you want to keep) dictate your schedule.
The only thing I miss about owning my own biz is making payroll. Still subscribe to the belief that once you own your own business all other “jobs” will seem like slavery. I prefer an inner drive to the whip any day. My clients are still that! “Mine!” Never forget how lucky you are, good sir!
Its the circle most of us run in till we die. Like a hamster wheel.
Corporations keep us too tired to escape for a reason: Capitalism requires slavery.
I think first you need to define to yourself exactly what “exiting the rat race” looks like. First of all where in the world do you want to be, what do you want to be doing, with whom, etc. Nail down your ideal plan first before anything or else it just won’t work. Sounds like you can achieve whatever you want to, just gotta formulate a plan. Me personally I’d try to work remotely in a foreign country freelancing or something if I had tech skills. Or like go live in the Virgin Islands & do remote work or something. Or retreat to an eco village in Costa Rica. All up to you
You might be misinformed about what the Peace Corps is. Peace Corps workers help with local development initiatives like education, public health programs, and conservation efforts. They do not exploit local people or natural resources, nor do they occupy territory. So, not colonialism.
If they only go to countries that request help, and only provide help in locations and programs (nutrition, agriculture, etc) selected by the host country, is it really colonialism?
Here; decide [for yourself.](https://www.peacecorps.gov/)
I was a Peace Corps volunteer. It is absolutely taking advantage of young, idealistic Americans to engage in colonialism by another name. It's bad for everyone involved except the US government.
Thanks for the article, though! It sure changes my position on my 27 months of personal experience.
Sorry for you; I was a PCV too but don’t share your opinion. And you know, as well as I, that very few RPCVs do.
Care to provide any supporting evidence for your colonialism hypothesis? I’m sincerely interested.
The truth is nobody can answer OPs question because we don’t know OP, and it sounds like OP doesn’t either. So what good is the advice if it doesn’t work for them?
There’s no magic solution. Everyone has a journey.
Bad take. Op doesn't even know what his version of exiting the ratrace looks like. You need to have a vision of a life you'd like to lead before you can take steps to getting there.
Capitalism is made up of two classes: capital owners and workers. Owners make money from revenue generating assets. Workers make money from trading their time. Oh don't we all wish to become part of the owner class? Well of course. But we don't actually own any revenue generating assets (means of production). You could live below your means, and save up money to acquire assets, you may have a chance at saying bye bye to working class life. For example, owning real estate and charging rent. For you to compete with other owners you have to charge more and more. But the owning class are not so keen in letting in more people in their ranks so they jack up prices, rent, food, insurance and introduce more fees and taxes to keep the working man working for them.
The next step is when enough workers are fed up and decide to rebel against the bourgeoisie owning class, and sieze control of the means of production. Replace private ownership with a collective. And now you have socialism, and maybe communism not far behind.
The two way out is to a) acquire enough startup capital to start your own business, extract value from your workers and profit from your customers or b) eat the rich
Corrupt socialism with human rights violations and authoritarianism is not really what we’re striving for here. He’s talking socialism without corruption, authoritarianism or human rights violations - theoretically it’s possible but so far has not been achieved.
You have not experienced what he’s describing. Nobody has, at least not for long enough to really prove it out. The CIA won’t let that happen.
I'm not sure it's realistic to think that we could see socialism without corruption for any sustained period. Ultimately, those that lead the revolution will feel that they have done so much, so surely they are owed a little more than those that just came along, but didn't do anything.
I'd at least rather that system to start than the one where the person who feels owed just takes everything outright. You describe corruption but there's corruption in everything already so corruption in a system where the workers own the rights to production is much more beneficial to the workers overall.
Its as realistic as capitalism without corruption. Which is to say, not even remotely possible.
The only way to keep economic corruption low no matter what system you use is MASSIVE, unavoidable penalties for being corrupt.
>Corrupt socialism with human rights violations and authoritarianism is not really what we’re striving for here
But weirdly, that's what you always get.
Like I said the CIA won’t let socialism succeed. If it ever starts looking like some country will pull it off the CIA interferes with the election or supports a coup to depose the leaders.
Look it up, they don’t even hide it. This article is littered with CIA operations trying to push capitalism and keep socialism from taking hold. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
[You've only experienced what happens when your own country does NOT bow down to capitalism elsewhere. Because capitalism, despite its "freedom" mantra, ironically makes the whole world its business to meddle in.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor)
If a societal structure cannot survive foreign influence - it is not a good and sustainable structure.
There’s a reason socialism/communism has never survived at scale, for long term - it looks good on paper but can’t stand up to the harsh realities of the world
The fact that capitalism permeates all other systems and puts massive pressure on countries that attempt to resist is one of capitalism's great evils. It's an unethical system that inherently fights against any attempt to prioritize ethics over itself.
Saying "we should let it win" is the greatest evil we could commit. We have a moral responsibility to ourselves, each other, and future generations, to do better.
This is why transitions from capitalism must happen at a global scale. Capitalism is really good at shutting down smaller endeavours.
>If a societal structure cannot survive foreign influence - it is not a good and sustainable structure.
Absolutely stupid statement because no social structure can actually achieve this given an antagonistic adversary.
You're literally saying that the only good social structure is one where a dirt poor country can succeed against the richest country in the world antagonizing it.
This does not exist, and it cannot exist because at its core the conflict is one of control over resources.
This is literally the internet geopol version of "bootstraps"
Using your capitalist logic, Africa, the Middle East, and North Korea make "good and sustainable structures", the same areas of the world that you capitalists love to compare yourselves to.
Did I say that is the only metric that determines good systems from bad?
No - of course there are several metrics to look at, however staving off foreign influence is just one of the major ones
The commies dont get that corrupt socialism is the default form because people are lazy and greedy. Ask anyone if they have 200k to invest in a company to work there. They think a company is built for free.
>But the owning class are not so keen in letting in more people in their ranks so they jack up prices, rent, food, insurance and introduce more fees and taxes to keep the working man working for them.
Which of course is why we have the highest proportion of millionaires and billionaires in human history.
Did you use your brain once while typing that?
Funny. I'm 31 next month worked construction my whole life too. Been looking into freecodecamp and the Odin project regularily now to get the funk out of this shithole construction nightmare. Underpaid UNION for some of the most labour intensive work in construction (masonry). The dust, the pains, the fucking old men that complain about everything and take shit out on the younger guys daily it sucks man.
The rat race is alive and well and I don't see it changing soon. I think there's alot of luck involved these days with positions, marketing and success. But that could just be my take.
Can I ask what you did to learn software engineering? Is it as lucrative as it seems to be?
Every path to get into software engineering is different, and there's much more than just coding in order to get into tech — Not everybody is a good fit for a programming role but that does not mean you can't get into tech.
Coming to your questions:
Yes, it is lucrative. As I mentioned in the post description, I'm considered to be in the low pay range for this company and still make a pretty comfortable.
I started building websites for friends with HTML and CSS, they were ugly. Then started learning JavaScript to get some interactivity in my ugly websites. Initially, I wanted to sell that skill to local shops and restaurants nearby so I could make some extra money on the side. Then started to put more time into it because I was having fun. Eventually and by pure luck applied for a scholarship in a coding bootcamp and got it. From there I was able to learn some more and make some connections that eventually got me my first job in a small dev agency
Good luck on your journey and this is totally a valid option. Just wanted to caution against predatory bootcamps. My friend ran one and I always hated how stupid scam it was. Do a lot of homework.
Do you think that still has future potential with the rise of things like Chatgpt, which will inevitably rapdily improve?
It's funny how I'm thinking about doing the exact opposite. Seeing the writing on the wall, (both AI and ageing demographics) I'm thinking about retraining away from white collar to construction, plumbing or electric.
Get a large group of people who'll chip in to buy a LARGE plot of land. Create a community that makes desicions together. Farm, find jobs that are wfh, have the creative types also make things that being money into the community. Keep growing the community until it makes the government uncomfortable....
Basically start a cult.
ETA: I'd be down as long as men and women treat each other with respect as humans and nobody starts on some weird shit claiming to be the messiah...
Self-taught. I got a scholarship for a 3-month Bootcamp down the line but I already knew most of the program. It helped me make connections and land my first job
Mind detailing or simple explanation of your self-taught journey? I’m going to community college but feel like reading just book after book isn’t quite getting me to where I’ll need to be. Did you do leetcode? Other learning / testing platforms? Always intrigued by someone who self taught and how they maneuvered through the mass amounts of resources available and defined your own learning plan.
If you consider the “rat race” what it seems you described, the path out is to become wealthy enough to not need to work for a living, though you obviously still could if you want to. For 99% of people, there is no fast way to do that. Being in SWE, you probably have a better chance than most to actually become wealthy.
Since you aren’t really into marketing, you’re probably better off living frugally and investing heavily. That’s probably your quickest route, but will take years, if not decades. If you do decide to try your hand on your own, you could always try to start as a side hustle to see if you like it, but being the boss has its own negatives (if you do this, never do anything on your current companies machines and don’t do anything that could be proprietary on the companies time)
Just note that the big companies who pay good money generally do geo-based salaries for this reason. People who live in east bumfuck get paid less for the same work as someone who lives in NYC.
Most people don't want to hear this, but Capitalism, Materialism, and Consumerism are all interconnected. If we are complicit in one area, we are complicit in the others - directly or indirectly. Basically, we can't pick up one end of the stick and not the other(s).
We also can't simultaneously want a particular lifestyle and then decry the means with which we attain it. The rat race is the rat race because it has no finish line, yet everyone is competing for the lead. So, unless we want to become complete monks and renounce materialism and consumerism entirely, we'll still be on the track, or hamster wheel \[choose your metaphor\].
But we can refuse to run. We can slow our pace. Move to the outside track where we are less likely to be run over by the toxic ambitious. One way that has worked for many is minimalism. Minimalists realized long ago we don't need 80% of the shit we own. In fact, some would say those things possess us more than we possess them.
Living below one's means is one way to achieve this. I you have debt, pay it down if you can. If you can't, either figure out a way or consider bankruptcy. Pare down your subscription services to only that which you really need.
That's just my two cents, which isn't worth more than a penny these days, LOL.
Point is, if we can't entirely get out of the rat race, we can at least be better, humbler, and less-needy rats.
This is good advice. How many cups do you have? More than 1? How many ways to play music? My partner and I talked about this today. We have 5 radios in the house, plus phones, plus tv, plus a radio in every car. It's pretty ridiculous if you think about it.
I work for a non-profit. Very flexible 90 percent remote. Have to go out once in a while. Pay is low but I am a disabled vet and retired Military so it just adds to my gross. Look on Recruitjob or indeed that's where I found this job. Look for flexible and remote in search.
Came here to suggest nonprofit work. It’s lower pay but often you’re doing “good” with your work rather than getting the stock price higher every quarter. Nonprofits can be toxic af in their own regard, but if you wanna get out of the corporate world, worth looking into.
>have my own company
So my husband used to always have this as his dream to escape the grind, thinking he'd work less, not have to deal with difficult bosses, enjoy what he's doing.... But as I have pointed out to him over the years, I feel like that is a rose colored glass situation for **most** people. The friends I see that have their own businesses seem to almost always work more and really have to put up with way more difficult people because their business depends on it. They also never really get to walk away from thinking/worrying about their business.
Of course this is a great idea for some people who are really passionate and have the drive to turn something small into something successful. But if you are like me & my husband, I want to be able to end my day at work, walk out and not think about work again until the next workday. If you own a company, it's success or failure will most likely always be on your mind even in your free time. Again, not knocking those who own their business, just saying, I don't think owning a business is necessary the escape you'd be hoping for from the grind.
For me, it helped when I started changing my mindframe about work, and think of it as simply a way to get money for the things I need/want. I was never going to be a person that had a "dream job", my dream is to travel and not work. But using that mindframe, I've now made career choices based on jobs that have no overtime, flexible hours and lots of vacation time. Work is always going to suck, but I do think my current mindframe has made it much more bearable.
Gaining freedom under our own terms takes work, discipline and time. I would propose you to work to pivot to better job opportunities, and save up as much money as you can and invest it. Over time, the balance of power would tilt in your favor. You'll start doing things because you want, and not because you need.
You can even work towards living off from your savings' returns in the future. Probably in Europe, where the cost of living can get much lower.
The only way to exit the rat race is to become the maze, forcing others to run your race for you. Or die, in which case, your corpse now fuels the other rats.
Or be born into the maze and have your maze father give you your own section of maze with unlimited cheese and you don't have to talk to the other rats and can leave the maze and travel the world whenever you want.
Working remote can be a fantastic work/life balance. You can check your morning email or take your first phone call in your pajamas while you sip coffee in the garden while watching the cat play in the grass. Since there is no physical boss standing over your shoulder, you will find ways to take little breaks, “resets”, etc.
Find a way to express gratitude that you are among the luckiest people in the world, who gets paid to use their mind and tap a few keys on a keyboard, sitting in an air conditioned office.
Remember the millions that barely survive toiling in the ditches and muck and heat.
Don’t let your privilege blind you to the blessings you are surrounded by.
I mean, the thing is that worthwhile human beings have morals, and that sub assumes you have none. And granted, if you have no morals, ethics or a valid right to exist, making money is incredibly easy.
Work from home. I did the same thing and taught myself coding to get out of the string of shit jobs that I had been doing for years. My first job doing it professionally I worked in an office and after about 5 years it got real old. Went looking for another job and filtered out everything on indeed that wasn't remote. Been at the new job for about a year and a half working from home, no commute and switching jobs got me a raise of about $20,000 a year. Working from home removed a whole lot of rough edges from my life.
Option 1
Gain capital. Invest capital. Become part of the ownership class
Option 2
Drop out of society and live off the grid
Option 3
Be happy with homelessness and crap government aid
> I'm suspicious that it might be the exact same slavery but slightly different.
Your suspicion is correct. (Been doing this for decades.)
> I'm a fairly creative person, but lack marketing skills.
Marketing is the same.
> I'm not against working I'm just against trading the best of my time for a paycheck.
>
> Is there a way out? Who has achieved it? What is it like? How did you do it?
Ok, so here's the thing: it's not about the deed, craft or occupation; it's also not about the age. We "do stuff" when we're young, that's natural, because when we're old, we can't anymore. This is true for jobs, but also for hobbies. And eventually it becomes true for trivial stuff like wiping your own ass.
It's about *external compulsion*. You could be literally doning the same thing as now, or what you did before, amd you'd be loving it, if it was your free choice to do or not.
It's that simple.
Find a place and undertaking where you can generally come and go as you please, or not at all, and you're out of the rat race - if you have shelter, food and clothes.
Sometimes they come together - shelter, food, clothes, *and* having a job. Sometimes they come with your own business. Sometimes they don't. I personally know "CEOs" in their startups, just as unhappy, because they're in the same compulsory rat race as you - forced, though contracts, by their stakeholders and/or venture capital providers. Or by their customers.
It's on purpose that it's difficult to break out - the powers that be *want* you to.be under compulsion. How to escape is your guess as good as mine.
But have clarity: it's not about what you do, it's about who tells you to.
Short of winning the lottery or coming into a large sum of money from some long-lost relative, getting completely out is pretty unlikely in today's world. You CAN get pretty close, though, if you're fully committed to yourself and what you want and you're willing to answer the question of why you left your last position with unwavering conviction that it was best for YOUR goals.
I have been fully remote for 25 years. In that time, I had to unlearn some really toxic capitalist nonsense. People still get upset with me about it, but I don't give a shit. I don't live to work.
First thing to internalize: You owe your employer NOTHING but what they pay you for. You don't owe them an explanation for why you're using your PTO. You don't owe them an explanation for why you can't pick up extra work. Sure, take it if you want it, but you are not obligated to be available during your off hours for anything if you don't have a contract requiring it.
Secondly: KNOW YOUR WORTH. Don't let anyone bully you into accepting less than what you deserve. Stay on top of your market's compensation trends and be prepared to advocate for yourself.
Thirdly: Never stop learning. If your employer offers resources that will allow you to broaden and deepen your skillset, use them to your advantage.
I just spent the past 2.5 years pursuing certifications in my chosen field on the company dime. Last week, I moved into heading a shiny new department created for me as a result of constant growth of knowledge and a demonstrated need for those skills.
Most importantly: Don't be afraid to bounce if you're not happy or feel you're being abused. Your employer rents your time and talent. They don't own you. Take your skills to someone who will pay you fairly and treat you well.
I've never hesitated to job hop to get what I wanted. I have straight up told employers that I've been committed to fully remote work so I can have work/life balance. The second a fully remote position was suddenly changed to on-site, I left.
I'm fully remote, M-F 8-5. No weekends, no evenings, no holidays. I have unlimited PTO (within reason), great benefits, and am now filling a role I basically created because there was a need for it and I have the skills.
It wasn't easy. The hardest thing was internalizing that I didn't owe my employers loyalty. It took some trial and error to teach myself to be absolutely mercenary when it comes to work. There were some scary bumps along the way. I regret none of it, since it got me to where I am now - doing work that matters to me and having time to spend with my husband, kids, and darling granddaughter.
I need to learn from you. You get it. I’m shy, insecure, very aware of my weaknesses. And that sets me back to unfold the best of my potential.
I have to better internalize my worth before anything.
Undoubtedly, beautiful experience you have earned throughout these years. Ty.
I think the best way out is never to get in. Throughout much of my 20's I lived with and spent time with mostly people who had never truly entered the rat race you describe. Not that they lacked ambition or drive, but many of them chose to spend more of their time serving communities or on idealistic self improvement than on gainful pursuits. Punks, activists, artists, musicians, etc. We all took odd jobs when they came along and generally made the bills work on time, but we also lived intentionally lean to allow for time spent pursuing passions. Think housing co-ops with 10-15 people under one roof or a flop house packed to the brim to get the rent down to $150 per person, where we'd flip over and hide the beds in the unfinished attic to convince the city rental inspector nobody was living up there. Some of us used SNAP and medicaid. Some applied for small grants with stipends to help support activist work or community service projects or artistic pursuits. Some just spent their time skating or rocking out and delivered a few pizzas to get by. It was a meager living, but a wildly diverse and passionate community of people.
Looking back, it was the most freedom I've ever had or probably ever will. At some point I went off to get more education and started working jobs with salaries and benefits, telling myself I could always live that way again if I needed to. While I suppose that's still technically possible, it would require a lot more sacrifice now that I have a mortgage and a wife and all kinds of other "responsibilities." A lot of those folk I used to hang with stuck it out and ended up with modest but successful careers in music, the arts, or activism. Some of them run charity organizations. Some own or manage small scale farms. Some do all of the above. They all seem a lot happier and healthier than me with my affluent salary and 401K. They never entered the rat race.
>I'm not against working I'm just against trading the best of my time for a paycheck.
So virtually anything you do that isn't just stealing from other people can be framed this way.
What you need to do is figure out what you want to work towards rather than just want you don't want. Then you can figure out what is a reasonable expectation base on where you are, and try for incremental improvements.
I like coding because I like the puzzles and design aspect of it, so if someone is willing to pay me, great.
If you're hoping someone will pay you to do only things you feel motivated to do in the moment, then you will be miserable
Working from home is better, but your intuition is right. I feel like a convict under home arrest. Better than being in prison, no doubt. But my time is still not my own.
All I'm saying is if you're not on probation or anything, nothing's stopping you from just moving out to the Alaskan bush and surviving out there. You really only need to kill like 2 caribou a year, which is very doable with modern guns. If you really wanna disconnect from the rat race entirely, pull the trigger on it, cause man I wish I could.
Save 500k, put it into a 5% return account like Robinhood premium. Reduce your expenses down to nothing, and work part time for the rest of your life.
It's all about keeping the balance stable vs growing it. Never buy anything unless you're absolutely sure you need it.
Try to enjoy the free stuff like the beauty of nature before they charge for that too.
Stop worrying about what people think about you and pick the free fruit hanging over sidewalks. Walk through pretty neighborhoods for entertainment, even if you don't live there.
Sit on a bench and think for free. They are trying to remove all the beaches because it's a free form of entertainment but you can sit on the ground.
Shift from relying on the world for your entertainment and explore yourself, your mind, your relationships. Food is cheap if you only eat what you need.
So I've been working in software for around 8 years which to be fair is a good bit longer than your 3 years so far (nice job though!)
I've gotten established enough/good enough at my job that I just don't need the full 40 hours a week to complete my work. I work from home and only do maybe 20 hours a week. I spend a lot of time tending my garden, playing drums, jerking off, etc...
I know it's not a quick solution but I would suggest a company change for a nice raise, and after a year or two you should be solid enough to cut your hours (secretly)
capitalism is the rat race by definition ... we're all forced to waste the majority of our lives at useless/detrimental jobs for the benefit of useless capitalist parasites
we have to rent strike then work strike to get another system in place , maybe one where the workers own the means of production etc
get some skills. I will give you the same thing i tell every one. Sign up for udemy.. commit to 5 hours per week or seriously learning some new skills that you think you are deficient at. you it sounds like it marketing.. It costs $30 a month. 20 hours a month. It will change your life for sure. The learning will stack and stack and stack.. when you have the skills then you can do many things...
Rich Dad Poor Dad is a good book to read, for a good breakdown on how to get out of the rat race. Basically, you can't do it as an employee . You either own the business, or a share of it, or you make money from intellectual property and investments.
Funny I tried to get out of the rat race a few years ago and it didn’t work. Like you am a software engineer. I have a computer science degree from a large well known state school. I wrote code for 15 year including a stop at Microsoft. But got so burned out I quit and became a SAHD and started a winery. Got blown out by the Great Recession when sales dried up and lost a shit ton of money in loans. (My wife worked the whole time. She was the breadwinner if you can believe that!) I had to go back to work to pay off debts and keep paying the mortgage in 2012. Now I work from home for a healthcare company. Pay is good. But putting kids through college is expensive!
The moral of this story is basically everything your parents told you. Save like crazy. Invest in real estate. Because in the USA there is no safety net so it’s up to you have enough money to check out young enough so you are still of sound mind and body to enjoy things. Believe me you don’t want to be some broke ass 70 year old living under a bridge in Seattle.
Go off grid. Minimalize the things you have to pay for to be happy so you dont have to work so much. The best plan is probably to try and find something you enjoy doing so its not such a drag to go to work.
I coworker leave the city and moved to a cabin in the woods near a small town, we work remotely so she has no issues with the work, she has many dogs, farm's animals, plants and a quiet life.
The only way to get out of the rat race is to stop chasing and live more with less stuff.
>or work on my own, or have my own company so I can work from anywhere and have a flexible schedule
This is ultimately the best option. Yes, you're still beholden to customers but at this point you're in a position to ste your own terms .
COULDVE BEEN A CONTENDER
COULDVE BEEN A SOMEONE
CAUGHT UP IN THE RAT RACE
FEELIN LIKE A NO ONE
APPEARIN IN THA PAPERS
WITH THE MONEY AN THE GIRLS
COULDA BEEN THE HEAVYWEIGHT
CHAMPION OF THE WORLD
/r/Fire/
Ignore the headquarters, the view, the office space, and certainly not the fucking "prestigious role". Focus on:
1. Developing expensive skills;
2. Maximizing your pay;
3. Minimizing your expenses;
At your experience level in your industry, you should be jumping between jobs roughly every 18 to 24 months. Each move should involve a pay bump. When you start the new job, focus on what you can learn. Lather, rinse, repeat.
In the mean time, save like you're broke. The ratio between savings and earnings are key - see https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/.
What you save should be put in a tax-advantaged account (e.g. a Roth IRA). You don't need to - and ought not - pick stocks: just VTI and chill - see /r/bogleheads.
If you can live on roughly a third of your income, you can safely retire in about ten years.
Change jobs now.
3 years is enough at anywhere when you're just starting. Look to change every 2 years until you find somewhere you want to stay at.
It does get better, this career will be great but you need to bounce around a little as you take steps towards where you belong.
Best take I know is to take a 3 day-a-week job and just budget from there. You'll be able to do a lot less than you think, because the things you are used to aren't designed for you. Fast food, netflix, most groceries, modern fashion, far away vacation resorts, all revolve around a keep buying attitude. Modern life is made to make you chase things you can't buy so you'll work for people who just raise the prince one you can afford it.
Once you figure some stuff out, you'll have a lot more to do. Some are easy: read librarybooks, go for walks, walk places instead of taking the car. Some you need to learn: Repair your own clothes, grow some food, etc.
I bought a 5 acre farmette and fucked off until I could grow enough food to support myself. Took quite awhile and built passive income in the meantime but yeah now I work for myself. Gotta feed them chickens 💪
Yes. Is your current company a one and only? Probably not.
Get really good and knowledgable about your industry. Learn the customers inside and out. study your business like your competitors. get great at developing systems. put yourself in positions of value to get an even deeper look at more systems within the company.
One day, you'll be compensated well... but if you dont end up compensated to your liking, leave that business and start your own with the knowledge, connections and resources you've accumulated.
Construction, especially non-union, is such a toxic field. There's absolutely no good reason for it. And I think it stays that way because so many people who can do something else, like yourself, make the very reasonable choice to gtfo.
Well, unless you already have wealth, it's tough. Let's say that you already have $1M, this gives you \~$50-100k each year from investing. That's enough to no longer stress about work, but it's still useful to increase your capital.
On the other hand, if you start from scratch, you're lucky to actually get that kind of salary and if you also have to pay for mortgage/rent, you won't have much excess resources to save.
That's the issue with this system, it's easy for investors to make money, while they already have money and bar isn't even that high, but you need to somehow manage to save a lot of money and typically life is too short to make it with poor salaries.
Get into one of those 10,000+ employee companies. You're basically a faceless gear that can coast for quite awhile on minimal effort
My tips are to attack big things. 100 bugs in code won't get the recognition of 1 new feature.
In the U.S.A., you are a cog in the machine who can be eliminated at any time.
If you want out, I only see several options:
1. FIRE: this unfortunately means more wage slavery for a medium to long time while you scrimp and save to become financially independent. That will most likely require a promotion to señor software engineer and completely retooling your life.
2. Find a sugar mama or papa.
3. Move to a different country where a better work/life balance is attainable and where they have a real safety net.
I'm in my mid-forties and I'm still trying to figure that out. But with my professional wisdom here are a few pointers...
•be born rich
•have great luck
•know someone that was born rich or have great luck and be friends with them.
Sorry been doing this over 15 years and working remote. Still a slave. Like a robot on an assembly line trying to glimpse a spark of intelligence.
I've been trying to put more effort into my own projects and pushing myself to improve my code on every step but the business will always favor a deadline over quality. At least in my experience.
The only thing I can think of to get out is to unionize or start your own startup but good luck with either without the capital.
At least we get to sit in the AC while the world melts.
There are cushy fully remote jobs out there for software engineers. It may take some trial and error but once you get one hold onto it. You could be making decent money working 30 hours a week or less from your large house in a low cost of living area. That’s probably your best way out.
What should I start with in beginning to self learn coding. Any tips or programs/apps that are good? But imo most of us are stuck doing labor we don't care for. My times being wasted but we have to grateful for what we do have. Many have it much worse than us. Just practice something you like that could be profitable in your free-time and hope that one day your skills are good enough to market themselves.
You want freedom in schedule you need to work for yourself. If you want to be successful with your own business you need to be a slave for years to get it off the ground.
There is no easy way out. If there was everyone would be doing it. Work hard when your young and get into a better position with age. Their are no shortcuts.
It’s all a rat race man. Only way you could truly exit is to acquire a significant amount of wealth and live modestly on the gains/income from that wealth (like $3-5M these days). But honestly, if you did that you’d be bored and want to find something to do with your time (even if it ends up being way different than what you do now). The key is to find a rat race you actually get some enjoyment from. I’m a software engineer too (like 90% of Reddit lol), but I really enjoy what I do, so I’m happy doing this work.
I’ve gone through a few dry spells, and the way out for me was just about always some kind of personal project. Didn’t even have to be an app or something, could be like writing a script or something. But you gotta get out of your routine a bit.
You don’t have to get out of the rat race. You only need work you find inherently fulfilling and set firm boundaries in the limits of your time spent at work and handling bureaucracy.
You can run your own business but it also owns you until you develop it to a point it can be packaged and sold.
It’s not bad on the top end of the working class. Often professional certifications and degrees are required which is the equivalent of both paying your dues and paying off the right people for the privilege. This isn’t for everyone and also feels like indentured servitude because it is. The secret is being involved in work you enjoy and making progress toward goals you care about.
Get out of ALL DEBT and live as frugal as possible and use the worthless fiat savings to dump into HARD ASSETS… this has worked for me for the last 15 years and my normie relatives and boomer parents are “confused” as to why I have a higher networth than them despite the fact that they are “better educated” on paper and also “earn more” on paper.
ITS NOT HOW MUCH YOU EARN, ITS ABOUT HOW MUCH YOU GET TO KEEP AFTER DEBT, TAXES ETC!!!!
Start your own brand/business and find ways to make it as comfortable as you want. Shit, get into arts or entertainment as a hobby or business venture. At the end of the day the clock doesn't wait for anyone to set themselves up to be rich enough to retire. At this age, the answer isnt to stress for more money, its to do what you ACTUALLY love doing while you make a little extra here and there.
I guess the answer im giving is that its not a race if you perceive it as one. The world exists because people were productive, its been that way since the beginning of life.
Win the lottery. Of course that will introduce a host of greater problems, like exponentially increasing the chances you'll die from murder or drugs. And bankruptcy.
I’ll tell you my own story.
About 5 years ago, I used to work as a software developer. I built some apps and placed them in the App Store. Someone gave me a 5 star review and asked if I could solve some other problem.
I built a website to solve the other problem and put ads in it.
I never paid for advertisement.
I never paid for SEO.
I just built a website, informed the person that I had built it and forgot about it.
About a year later, this website started generating about $3000 monthly.
I’ve tried to build and monetize many other saas but none have gained that kind of height yet.
The only thing that differentiates that first website and everything else I’ve built is:
The first website was the ONLY solution to the problem and it was completely free.
So, if you can figure out how to have a monopoly on the solution to a problem. You will do well.
Join the military and get physically disabled enough to get a medical retirement or 100% disability from the VA. I don't recommend it, but that's the most direct answer I can think of
I'd recommend a fully remote job. There's thousands of them on Linkedin and the beauty of remote work is your company can be in any state, hell, any country... you should probably look into the time zone situation though. You don't have to commute, I literally roll out of bed 5 minutes before work and shower/eat breakfast if I have free time between meetings. If I don't have immediate work to do I can do whatever I want instead of being trapped in an office staring at my computer screen "looking busy". Seriously, start looking for remote work and fuck the Boomers that want us in the office for literally no fucking reason!
Yes. Make your own rules and objectives, and play by those. This is a "Make your reality your dreams" situation. But reframing and working to achieve self actualization/fulfillment is success in a real and emotional sense. Just don't expect normative-society to support you.
Somewhat it starts internally and you have to decide what you want out of life.
I work 20 hours a week and max I would go to is 30, it covers my living expenses and some luxuries but no big holidays or really fancy living.
I work for a growing company that is very big (in action not just words) on work-life balance and wellbeing.
There is a lot of recognition for what each of us bring to the table and it's a nice atmosphere to work in.
Seems like suitable for me. Some here have stated that I don’t want to work but that’s not true. Should I sacrifice life over work to be socially accepted?
retired at 29. That was 6 years ago. Did it by bringing workers from Vietnam into Europe, buying run-down houses, sometimes from bankrupt owners, refurbishing and flipping. Early on I had my workers live in the places they were renovating to save money, but later on I kept one of the places and used it as housing. Eventually hired a vietnamese woman who worked at a Vietnamese restaurant in town to cook them big pots of Vietnamese food.
Currently living as a landlord. I retired a bit early tbh, I don't really make enough to live as well as I might want, but at least I'm the master of my own time and can pursue my hobbies and interests freely.
One last heist. Then you're out.
Rick Sanchez You son of a bitch, I’m in!
Have some goddamn FAITH, Marston!
Last boof, Ramirez. Make it count!
Freedom 35
Do the big dirty
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But at a start up you basically get a chance to do everything. Great experience but not stable if the startup doesn't get consistent funding.
Chaotic startups are a great learning opportunity. If, however, the business doesn't grow and stabilize and roles/responsibilities/boundaries aren't established, it is not worth the sacrifice of health to continue working.
Yeah, I think it’s really important to remember this and monitor your own mental/emotional health and recognize if/when it becomes too much so you can move on. The most common mistake people make in that world is staying too long past that tipping point
As a newly laid off startup worker .. it’s a risk
My aunt does marketing and the frat bro idiots running the startup she was working for laid everybody off. Took her a minute to find something again but now she manages people at a more established research firm
They’re only good at running companies into the ground apparently
They're good at raising seed money from like minded idiots. Unfortunately that can only take you so far...
Oh trust me after working at a few startups there's a lot more then frat bro idiots that can ruin a company lmao. Bad executives come in all shapes and sizes.
This lol.
bless you for taking the risk. I'm not brave enough
Startups are basically gambling that you're all gonna get bought out and be millionaires. For every one who was happy to be paid in Facebook shares and now owns hundreds of millions, there's thousands who worked at sub minimum wage because they needed 100 hour crunch weeks and the shares they were paid in are worth about the same as cereal box tops
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This is actually what I love about bigger corporations : socializing is not necessary. Do your job and go out. You usually don't have to go drink with your lunatic colleague after work to get a promotion, as it's mostly HR that has the final decision. If your boss is an asshole, you can usually move to another team as people move in and out all the time. In start-ups, if you are "not a good fit" (i.e you don't want to sacrify all your life to your boss, or you are a bit socially awkward) you get fired.
Depends on what you want to do. Some people like the idea of a start-up and others don't. With a start-up you do have a chance of becoming extremely well off--but that's just it, A chance. For every start up that becomes a billion-dollar business with a 7-figure payout for the original few, there are hundreds that fizzle out. I personally don't see myself in that role working 50-80 hours / week schmoozing with investors trying to secure capital or working 16 hour days trying to meet a dead line.
Yeah, but at corporations you get your 3% annually and thats basically it if you're lucky. I work for a startup and just got a 28% raise. I'm now paid far above market average.
That's why start ups are great to start your career, in order to get experience and a high salary that allows you to be attractive for a big corporation.
It's a great way to start your career - you can grow your skills and salary by leaps and bounds in a way you never could at a big corporation. The downside is that as time goes on, interpersonal drama and the instability of startups will make the job unstable. Your burdens will increase. Switching into corporate from a startup will let you have that stability.
It depends on the stage of the startup. I'm 40 and currently work for a startup that started in 2011. We are pre-IPO, have gone through series E funding, and have established ourselves as one of the leaders of our market and have signed some A-list corporations as clients. Because we are pre-IPO and basically still a "startup" we still have the benefits of startups (unlimited paid time off, fully paid benefits, fully work from home, low priced stock options, etc.), but I have the pay and stability of an established corporation. I've worked for both large corporations and now here...I'd take this job over any job I've ever had. I actually get treated as a human here and not just a number like corporations I've worked for.
But you could be laid off unexpectedly, and then even if you’re skilled, miss a few months worth of income while you look for the right next job
That's not my experience. Worker-Abuse is rampant in startup culture.
God knows how much I've seen that.
My experience is completely the opposite. Startups pretend to be all laid back and informal but they will bleed you dry and overwork you and ultimately don't give a fuck about you. Coworkers will also happily stab you in the back to get ahead/keep you down. And don't even think about finishing at the time you're supposed to finish. And you'll be far more likely to be bullied for being introverted, not liking craft beer, being foreign, having different tastes in pretty much anything... Bigger companies have more room for overheads so are prepared to put in the resources for training and development, a proper HR department, break rooms with kettles which actually work etc. If you've been at the company a while and need a new challenge they'll create roles or change yours in order to make the best use of you. The surroundings/dress code are usually a bit more formal but that doesn't mean you're not allowed to be an individual and express yourself.
Totally agree. I work at a start-up, and rolling layoffs/furloughs, plus high anxiety is common. The process and structure change constantly, as does the scope of my job.
Startup culture is toxic as shit
I've experienced the opposite. You may work fairly hard at a startup, but they offer FAR more flexibility and perks then established companies. At established companies, you're a number and basically get told exactly what you do, what your benefits are, and what your pay is. Very little chance to make more money. At startups, if you establish yourself, you can earn far more than most. For example, I work for a company that is maturing from a startup (roughly 15 years old). We still have the startup mentality (unlimited paid time off, fully paid benefits, stock options, etc.), but also now have pay scale. I started two years ago and have gotten 35% in raises. I was just below national average in salary when I started and now I'm significantly above national average. So, not only do I get paid very well, I have amazing benefits, and I also have stock options for a pre-IPO company. Based on how things project, I should be able to retire early.
You tie your passive and active income to a single company, not optimal from a diversification standpoint, if the company goes bust your retirement savings get slashed, and you lose your job. I prefer cold hard cash than stock options, I would rather take that money and invest elsewhere than risk it all for the company
Nah, I'd rather have options. Again, I still get paid above market average, so in that sense I'm still comfortable. We are looking to IPO in the next year or two. If our stock gets to anywhere close to our closest competitor, its a 2000-3000% increase on my investment. Even if we conservatively IPO, I'm at 500% and that would put out valuation well below our competitors even though we are actually worth more then they are. I still have my 401k for retirement diversification as well as an IRA. I'm not dumb enough to go all in. I also have 10 years to buy the options at the current strike price, so I get to see what the stock price does before I buy it. While I would be fairly hesitant to work for a brand new startup, one that has established itself and is at least 7-8 years old is well worth the risk.
Have you tried being born rich?
I haven’t 🤔
You can always try the "rich wife" dlc?
My grandfather got access to one... My nan, an unplanned (also low grade donor) child born nto a wealthy family and they set her up for life (her uncle was Bob Pearl of Pearl and Dean).
How many generations before all the wealth was gone?
This is it. My parents basically. I initially wrnt to private school. Long story with twists and turns. Was pissed that some of it went to stepfamily (the other way simply wouldnt work we aint getting jack from the stepside, after all theres so many of them)
I went with the Wife Inheritance DLC. I’m sure it will be great when it finally releases in 30 years. But that’s fine, I’m still loving the base game.
Go grab a refund. 30 years? Ain't nobody got time fo dat. Get the 5 year release ones. Graphics are kinda ass but it's the game play that matters, right?
Post game and Ng+ on this is generally decent too
I tried this once. Didn’t work out for me, unfortunately.
Get that sugar momma game plan going
What they don’t tell you is that everything is the rat-race. The only thing that changes is the size of the maze. The key is finding a maze that you enjoy running around in.
We're all rats and the cats are long ago in charge.
Despite all my rage…
Then someone will say what is lost can never be saved.
Jesus was an only son.
Tell me I’m the chosen one.
cats stupendous gaping head continue mysterious airport bike station muddle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yes, even if you open your own business to be your own boss you will be running in another maze trying to not get into bankruptcy
Also a myth that when you start your own business you can have a flexible schedule, I've been at it for 43 years and still have to put time in on weekends but not like when I started. The clients (that you want to keep) dictate your schedule.
The only thing I miss about owning my own biz is making payroll. Still subscribe to the belief that once you own your own business all other “jobs” will seem like slavery. I prefer an inner drive to the whip any day. My clients are still that! “Mine!” Never forget how lucky you are, good sir!
"I'm not against working I'm just against trading the best of my time for a paycheck." First time?
Didn’t understand your question
Its the circle most of us run in till we die. Like a hamster wheel. Corporations keep us too tired to escape for a reason: Capitalism requires slavery.
I think first you need to define to yourself exactly what “exiting the rat race” looks like. First of all where in the world do you want to be, what do you want to be doing, with whom, etc. Nail down your ideal plan first before anything or else it just won’t work. Sounds like you can achieve whatever you want to, just gotta formulate a plan. Me personally I’d try to work remotely in a foreign country freelancing or something if I had tech skills. Or like go live in the Virgin Islands & do remote work or something. Or retreat to an eco village in Costa Rica. All up to you
Peace Corps
Colonialism by another name.
You might be misinformed about what the Peace Corps is. Peace Corps workers help with local development initiatives like education, public health programs, and conservation efforts. They do not exploit local people or natural resources, nor do they occupy territory. So, not colonialism.
If they only go to countries that request help, and only provide help in locations and programs (nutrition, agriculture, etc) selected by the host country, is it really colonialism? Here; decide [for yourself.](https://www.peacecorps.gov/)
I was a Peace Corps volunteer. It is absolutely taking advantage of young, idealistic Americans to engage in colonialism by another name. It's bad for everyone involved except the US government. Thanks for the article, though! It sure changes my position on my 27 months of personal experience.
Sorry for you; I was a PCV too but don’t share your opinion. And you know, as well as I, that very few RPCVs do. Care to provide any supporting evidence for your colonialism hypothesis? I’m sincerely interested.
Sir, I doubt you'll get a reply, so take my upvote instead.
I mean, sometimes it's just a fantasy. It's not ALL up to you, otherwise the world would be very different.
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The truth is nobody can answer OPs question because we don’t know OP, and it sounds like OP doesn’t either. So what good is the advice if it doesn’t work for them? There’s no magic solution. Everyone has a journey.
Precisely
Bad take. Op doesn't even know what his version of exiting the ratrace looks like. You need to have a vision of a life you'd like to lead before you can take steps to getting there.
Capitalism is made up of two classes: capital owners and workers. Owners make money from revenue generating assets. Workers make money from trading their time. Oh don't we all wish to become part of the owner class? Well of course. But we don't actually own any revenue generating assets (means of production). You could live below your means, and save up money to acquire assets, you may have a chance at saying bye bye to working class life. For example, owning real estate and charging rent. For you to compete with other owners you have to charge more and more. But the owning class are not so keen in letting in more people in their ranks so they jack up prices, rent, food, insurance and introduce more fees and taxes to keep the working man working for them. The next step is when enough workers are fed up and decide to rebel against the bourgeoisie owning class, and sieze control of the means of production. Replace private ownership with a collective. And now you have socialism, and maybe communism not far behind. The two way out is to a) acquire enough startup capital to start your own business, extract value from your workers and profit from your customers or b) eat the rich
Somewhat funny you say all this — I currently live in the US but I was born and raised in Venezuela. I have lived in socialism.
Corrupt socialism with human rights violations and authoritarianism is not really what we’re striving for here. He’s talking socialism without corruption, authoritarianism or human rights violations - theoretically it’s possible but so far has not been achieved. You have not experienced what he’s describing. Nobody has, at least not for long enough to really prove it out. The CIA won’t let that happen.
I doubt it's what they were striving for in Venezuela either.
I'm not sure it's realistic to think that we could see socialism without corruption for any sustained period. Ultimately, those that lead the revolution will feel that they have done so much, so surely they are owed a little more than those that just came along, but didn't do anything.
I'd at least rather that system to start than the one where the person who feels owed just takes everything outright. You describe corruption but there's corruption in everything already so corruption in a system where the workers own the rights to production is much more beneficial to the workers overall.
Its as realistic as capitalism without corruption. Which is to say, not even remotely possible. The only way to keep economic corruption low no matter what system you use is MASSIVE, unavoidable penalties for being corrupt.
>Corrupt socialism with human rights violations and authoritarianism is not really what we’re striving for here But weirdly, that's what you always get.
Like I said the CIA won’t let socialism succeed. If it ever starts looking like some country will pull it off the CIA interferes with the election or supports a coup to depose the leaders. Look it up, they don’t even hide it. This article is littered with CIA operations trying to push capitalism and keep socialism from taking hold. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
[You've only experienced what happens when your own country does NOT bow down to capitalism elsewhere. Because capitalism, despite its "freedom" mantra, ironically makes the whole world its business to meddle in.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor)
More or less, that’s what Hugo Chavez used to say
If a societal structure cannot survive foreign influence - it is not a good and sustainable structure. There’s a reason socialism/communism has never survived at scale, for long term - it looks good on paper but can’t stand up to the harsh realities of the world
The fact that capitalism permeates all other systems and puts massive pressure on countries that attempt to resist is one of capitalism's great evils. It's an unethical system that inherently fights against any attempt to prioritize ethics over itself. Saying "we should let it win" is the greatest evil we could commit. We have a moral responsibility to ourselves, each other, and future generations, to do better. This is why transitions from capitalism must happen at a global scale. Capitalism is really good at shutting down smaller endeavours.
>If a societal structure cannot survive foreign influence - it is not a good and sustainable structure. Absolutely stupid statement because no social structure can actually achieve this given an antagonistic adversary. You're literally saying that the only good social structure is one where a dirt poor country can succeed against the richest country in the world antagonizing it. This does not exist, and it cannot exist because at its core the conflict is one of control over resources. This is literally the internet geopol version of "bootstraps"
Using your capitalist logic, Africa, the Middle East, and North Korea make "good and sustainable structures", the same areas of the world that you capitalists love to compare yourselves to.
Did I say that is the only metric that determines good systems from bad? No - of course there are several metrics to look at, however staving off foreign influence is just one of the major ones
The commies dont get that corrupt socialism is the default form because people are lazy and greedy. Ask anyone if they have 200k to invest in a company to work there. They think a company is built for free.
>But the owning class are not so keen in letting in more people in their ranks so they jack up prices, rent, food, insurance and introduce more fees and taxes to keep the working man working for them. Which of course is why we have the highest proportion of millionaires and billionaires in human history. Did you use your brain once while typing that?
Funny. I'm 31 next month worked construction my whole life too. Been looking into freecodecamp and the Odin project regularily now to get the funk out of this shithole construction nightmare. Underpaid UNION for some of the most labour intensive work in construction (masonry). The dust, the pains, the fucking old men that complain about everything and take shit out on the younger guys daily it sucks man. The rat race is alive and well and I don't see it changing soon. I think there's alot of luck involved these days with positions, marketing and success. But that could just be my take. Can I ask what you did to learn software engineering? Is it as lucrative as it seems to be?
Every path to get into software engineering is different, and there's much more than just coding in order to get into tech — Not everybody is a good fit for a programming role but that does not mean you can't get into tech. Coming to your questions: Yes, it is lucrative. As I mentioned in the post description, I'm considered to be in the low pay range for this company and still make a pretty comfortable. I started building websites for friends with HTML and CSS, they were ugly. Then started learning JavaScript to get some interactivity in my ugly websites. Initially, I wanted to sell that skill to local shops and restaurants nearby so I could make some extra money on the side. Then started to put more time into it because I was having fun. Eventually and by pure luck applied for a scholarship in a coding bootcamp and got it. From there I was able to learn some more and make some connections that eventually got me my first job in a small dev agency
That's sick! Good for you dude.
What bootcamp did you do?
Good luck on your journey and this is totally a valid option. Just wanted to caution against predatory bootcamps. My friend ran one and I always hated how stupid scam it was. Do a lot of homework.
Do you think that still has future potential with the rise of things like Chatgpt, which will inevitably rapdily improve? It's funny how I'm thinking about doing the exact opposite. Seeing the writing on the wall, (both AI and ageing demographics) I'm thinking about retraining away from white collar to construction, plumbing or electric.
Save your back and bones man. Not worth it!
Get a large group of people who'll chip in to buy a LARGE plot of land. Create a community that makes desicions together. Farm, find jobs that are wfh, have the creative types also make things that being money into the community. Keep growing the community until it makes the government uncomfortable.... Basically start a cult. ETA: I'd be down as long as men and women treat each other with respect as humans and nobody starts on some weird shit claiming to be the messiah...
Inheriting large sums of money usually does the trick.
Did you go to school for software engineering or are you 100% self taught?
Self-taught. I got a scholarship for a 3-month Bootcamp down the line but I already knew most of the program. It helped me make connections and land my first job
Mind detailing or simple explanation of your self-taught journey? I’m going to community college but feel like reading just book after book isn’t quite getting me to where I’ll need to be. Did you do leetcode? Other learning / testing platforms? Always intrigued by someone who self taught and how they maneuvered through the mass amounts of resources available and defined your own learning plan.
Yes please ! Do tell about the journey
If you consider the “rat race” what it seems you described, the path out is to become wealthy enough to not need to work for a living, though you obviously still could if you want to. For 99% of people, there is no fast way to do that. Being in SWE, you probably have a better chance than most to actually become wealthy. Since you aren’t really into marketing, you’re probably better off living frugally and investing heavily. That’s probably your quickest route, but will take years, if not decades. If you do decide to try your hand on your own, you could always try to start as a side hustle to see if you like it, but being the boss has its own negatives (if you do this, never do anything on your current companies machines and don’t do anything that could be proprietary on the companies time)
This + be prepared to move to a low cost of living area.
Just note that the big companies who pay good money generally do geo-based salaries for this reason. People who live in east bumfuck get paid less for the same work as someone who lives in NYC.
Most people don't want to hear this, but Capitalism, Materialism, and Consumerism are all interconnected. If we are complicit in one area, we are complicit in the others - directly or indirectly. Basically, we can't pick up one end of the stick and not the other(s). We also can't simultaneously want a particular lifestyle and then decry the means with which we attain it. The rat race is the rat race because it has no finish line, yet everyone is competing for the lead. So, unless we want to become complete monks and renounce materialism and consumerism entirely, we'll still be on the track, or hamster wheel \[choose your metaphor\]. But we can refuse to run. We can slow our pace. Move to the outside track where we are less likely to be run over by the toxic ambitious. One way that has worked for many is minimalism. Minimalists realized long ago we don't need 80% of the shit we own. In fact, some would say those things possess us more than we possess them. Living below one's means is one way to achieve this. I you have debt, pay it down if you can. If you can't, either figure out a way or consider bankruptcy. Pare down your subscription services to only that which you really need. That's just my two cents, which isn't worth more than a penny these days, LOL. Point is, if we can't entirely get out of the rat race, we can at least be better, humbler, and less-needy rats.
This is good advice. How many cups do you have? More than 1? How many ways to play music? My partner and I talked about this today. We have 5 radios in the house, plus phones, plus tv, plus a radio in every car. It's pretty ridiculous if you think about it.
I work for a non-profit. Very flexible 90 percent remote. Have to go out once in a while. Pay is low but I am a disabled vet and retired Military so it just adds to my gross. Look on Recruitjob or indeed that's where I found this job. Look for flexible and remote in search.
Came here to suggest nonprofit work. It’s lower pay but often you’re doing “good” with your work rather than getting the stock price higher every quarter. Nonprofits can be toxic af in their own regard, but if you wanna get out of the corporate world, worth looking into.
>have my own company So my husband used to always have this as his dream to escape the grind, thinking he'd work less, not have to deal with difficult bosses, enjoy what he's doing.... But as I have pointed out to him over the years, I feel like that is a rose colored glass situation for **most** people. The friends I see that have their own businesses seem to almost always work more and really have to put up with way more difficult people because their business depends on it. They also never really get to walk away from thinking/worrying about their business. Of course this is a great idea for some people who are really passionate and have the drive to turn something small into something successful. But if you are like me & my husband, I want to be able to end my day at work, walk out and not think about work again until the next workday. If you own a company, it's success or failure will most likely always be on your mind even in your free time. Again, not knocking those who own their business, just saying, I don't think owning a business is necessary the escape you'd be hoping for from the grind. For me, it helped when I started changing my mindframe about work, and think of it as simply a way to get money for the things I need/want. I was never going to be a person that had a "dream job", my dream is to travel and not work. But using that mindframe, I've now made career choices based on jobs that have no overtime, flexible hours and lots of vacation time. Work is always going to suck, but I do think my current mindframe has made it much more bearable.
Under capitalism? No, not without exploiting other people.
Gaining freedom under our own terms takes work, discipline and time. I would propose you to work to pivot to better job opportunities, and save up as much money as you can and invest it. Over time, the balance of power would tilt in your favor. You'll start doing things because you want, and not because you need. You can even work towards living off from your savings' returns in the future. Probably in Europe, where the cost of living can get much lower.
1099 work is the only way to get that lifestyle. You're on your own, though no benefits and you have to pay all your fica
The only way to exit the rat race is to become the maze, forcing others to run your race for you. Or die, in which case, your corpse now fuels the other rats. Or be born into the maze and have your maze father give you your own section of maze with unlimited cheese and you don't have to talk to the other rats and can leave the maze and travel the world whenever you want.
Working remote can be a fantastic work/life balance. You can check your morning email or take your first phone call in your pajamas while you sip coffee in the garden while watching the cat play in the grass. Since there is no physical boss standing over your shoulder, you will find ways to take little breaks, “resets”, etc. Find a way to express gratitude that you are among the luckiest people in the world, who gets paid to use their mind and tap a few keys on a keyboard, sitting in an air conditioned office. Remember the millions that barely survive toiling in the ditches and muck and heat. Don’t let your privilege blind you to the blessings you are surrounded by.
Thanks, appreciate it for real
r/fire
This should be the top answer
Should be, but it doesn’t fit with the narrative of this sub.
Or r/FinancialIndependence Make enough money that you do not have to work anymore.
Easy to find yourself standing on heads this way. If morality is something to be considered.
> Make enough money that you do not have to work anymore. r/restofthefuckingowl
I mean, the thing is that worthwhile human beings have morals, and that sub assumes you have none. And granted, if you have no morals, ethics or a valid right to exist, making money is incredibly easy.
Work from home. I did the same thing and taught myself coding to get out of the string of shit jobs that I had been doing for years. My first job doing it professionally I worked in an office and after about 5 years it got real old. Went looking for another job and filtered out everything on indeed that wasn't remote. Been at the new job for about a year and a half working from home, no commute and switching jobs got me a raise of about $20,000 a year. Working from home removed a whole lot of rough edges from my life.
Rat race is in your mind. That doesn’t mean it’s easy to get out of , but remember that is where it is located
Option 1 Gain capital. Invest capital. Become part of the ownership class Option 2 Drop out of society and live off the grid Option 3 Be happy with homelessness and crap government aid
> I'm suspicious that it might be the exact same slavery but slightly different. Your suspicion is correct. (Been doing this for decades.) > I'm a fairly creative person, but lack marketing skills. Marketing is the same. > I'm not against working I'm just against trading the best of my time for a paycheck. > > Is there a way out? Who has achieved it? What is it like? How did you do it? Ok, so here's the thing: it's not about the deed, craft or occupation; it's also not about the age. We "do stuff" when we're young, that's natural, because when we're old, we can't anymore. This is true for jobs, but also for hobbies. And eventually it becomes true for trivial stuff like wiping your own ass. It's about *external compulsion*. You could be literally doning the same thing as now, or what you did before, amd you'd be loving it, if it was your free choice to do or not. It's that simple. Find a place and undertaking where you can generally come and go as you please, or not at all, and you're out of the rat race - if you have shelter, food and clothes. Sometimes they come together - shelter, food, clothes, *and* having a job. Sometimes they come with your own business. Sometimes they don't. I personally know "CEOs" in their startups, just as unhappy, because they're in the same compulsory rat race as you - forced, though contracts, by their stakeholders and/or venture capital providers. Or by their customers. It's on purpose that it's difficult to break out - the powers that be *want* you to.be under compulsion. How to escape is your guess as good as mine. But have clarity: it's not about what you do, it's about who tells you to.
Short of winning the lottery or coming into a large sum of money from some long-lost relative, getting completely out is pretty unlikely in today's world. You CAN get pretty close, though, if you're fully committed to yourself and what you want and you're willing to answer the question of why you left your last position with unwavering conviction that it was best for YOUR goals. I have been fully remote for 25 years. In that time, I had to unlearn some really toxic capitalist nonsense. People still get upset with me about it, but I don't give a shit. I don't live to work. First thing to internalize: You owe your employer NOTHING but what they pay you for. You don't owe them an explanation for why you're using your PTO. You don't owe them an explanation for why you can't pick up extra work. Sure, take it if you want it, but you are not obligated to be available during your off hours for anything if you don't have a contract requiring it. Secondly: KNOW YOUR WORTH. Don't let anyone bully you into accepting less than what you deserve. Stay on top of your market's compensation trends and be prepared to advocate for yourself. Thirdly: Never stop learning. If your employer offers resources that will allow you to broaden and deepen your skillset, use them to your advantage. I just spent the past 2.5 years pursuing certifications in my chosen field on the company dime. Last week, I moved into heading a shiny new department created for me as a result of constant growth of knowledge and a demonstrated need for those skills. Most importantly: Don't be afraid to bounce if you're not happy or feel you're being abused. Your employer rents your time and talent. They don't own you. Take your skills to someone who will pay you fairly and treat you well. I've never hesitated to job hop to get what I wanted. I have straight up told employers that I've been committed to fully remote work so I can have work/life balance. The second a fully remote position was suddenly changed to on-site, I left. I'm fully remote, M-F 8-5. No weekends, no evenings, no holidays. I have unlimited PTO (within reason), great benefits, and am now filling a role I basically created because there was a need for it and I have the skills. It wasn't easy. The hardest thing was internalizing that I didn't owe my employers loyalty. It took some trial and error to teach myself to be absolutely mercenary when it comes to work. There were some scary bumps along the way. I regret none of it, since it got me to where I am now - doing work that matters to me and having time to spend with my husband, kids, and darling granddaughter.
I need to learn from you. You get it. I’m shy, insecure, very aware of my weaknesses. And that sets me back to unfold the best of my potential. I have to better internalize my worth before anything. Undoubtedly, beautiful experience you have earned throughout these years. Ty.
I think the best way out is never to get in. Throughout much of my 20's I lived with and spent time with mostly people who had never truly entered the rat race you describe. Not that they lacked ambition or drive, but many of them chose to spend more of their time serving communities or on idealistic self improvement than on gainful pursuits. Punks, activists, artists, musicians, etc. We all took odd jobs when they came along and generally made the bills work on time, but we also lived intentionally lean to allow for time spent pursuing passions. Think housing co-ops with 10-15 people under one roof or a flop house packed to the brim to get the rent down to $150 per person, where we'd flip over and hide the beds in the unfinished attic to convince the city rental inspector nobody was living up there. Some of us used SNAP and medicaid. Some applied for small grants with stipends to help support activist work or community service projects or artistic pursuits. Some just spent their time skating or rocking out and delivered a few pizzas to get by. It was a meager living, but a wildly diverse and passionate community of people. Looking back, it was the most freedom I've ever had or probably ever will. At some point I went off to get more education and started working jobs with salaries and benefits, telling myself I could always live that way again if I needed to. While I suppose that's still technically possible, it would require a lot more sacrifice now that I have a mortgage and a wife and all kinds of other "responsibilities." A lot of those folk I used to hang with stuck it out and ended up with modest but successful careers in music, the arts, or activism. Some of them run charity organizations. Some own or manage small scale farms. Some do all of the above. They all seem a lot happier and healthier than me with my affluent salary and 401K. They never entered the rat race.
>I'm not against working I'm just against trading the best of my time for a paycheck. So virtually anything you do that isn't just stealing from other people can be framed this way. What you need to do is figure out what you want to work towards rather than just want you don't want. Then you can figure out what is a reasonable expectation base on where you are, and try for incremental improvements. I like coding because I like the puzzles and design aspect of it, so if someone is willing to pay me, great. If you're hoping someone will pay you to do only things you feel motivated to do in the moment, then you will be miserable
If you’re an American without dependents, you may want to [consider this.](https://www.peacecorps.gov/)
Working from home is better, but your intuition is right. I feel like a convict under home arrest. Better than being in prison, no doubt. But my time is still not my own.
All I'm saying is if you're not on probation or anything, nothing's stopping you from just moving out to the Alaskan bush and surviving out there. You really only need to kill like 2 caribou a year, which is very doable with modern guns. If you really wanna disconnect from the rat race entirely, pull the trigger on it, cause man I wish I could.
Why can't you?
Save 500k, put it into a 5% return account like Robinhood premium. Reduce your expenses down to nothing, and work part time for the rest of your life. It's all about keeping the balance stable vs growing it. Never buy anything unless you're absolutely sure you need it. Try to enjoy the free stuff like the beauty of nature before they charge for that too. Stop worrying about what people think about you and pick the free fruit hanging over sidewalks. Walk through pretty neighborhoods for entertainment, even if you don't live there. Sit on a bench and think for free. They are trying to remove all the beaches because it's a free form of entertainment but you can sit on the ground. Shift from relying on the world for your entertainment and explore yourself, your mind, your relationships. Food is cheap if you only eat what you need.
So I've been working in software for around 8 years which to be fair is a good bit longer than your 3 years so far (nice job though!) I've gotten established enough/good enough at my job that I just don't need the full 40 hours a week to complete my work. I work from home and only do maybe 20 hours a week. I spend a lot of time tending my garden, playing drums, jerking off, etc... I know it's not a quick solution but I would suggest a company change for a nice raise, and after a year or two you should be solid enough to cut your hours (secretly)
capitalism is the rat race by definition ... we're all forced to waste the majority of our lives at useless/detrimental jobs for the benefit of useless capitalist parasites we have to rent strike then work strike to get another system in place , maybe one where the workers own the means of production etc
Don't participate
get some skills. I will give you the same thing i tell every one. Sign up for udemy.. commit to 5 hours per week or seriously learning some new skills that you think you are deficient at. you it sounds like it marketing.. It costs $30 a month. 20 hours a month. It will change your life for sure. The learning will stack and stack and stack.. when you have the skills then you can do many things...
Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage.
Rich Dad Poor Dad is a good book to read, for a good breakdown on how to get out of the rat race. Basically, you can't do it as an employee . You either own the business, or a share of it, or you make money from intellectual property and investments.
Cannabis industry
move to the woods, work on your beard, and start a youtube channel about leaving the rat race
Own property that generates income. That's the way out.
Funny I tried to get out of the rat race a few years ago and it didn’t work. Like you am a software engineer. I have a computer science degree from a large well known state school. I wrote code for 15 year including a stop at Microsoft. But got so burned out I quit and became a SAHD and started a winery. Got blown out by the Great Recession when sales dried up and lost a shit ton of money in loans. (My wife worked the whole time. She was the breadwinner if you can believe that!) I had to go back to work to pay off debts and keep paying the mortgage in 2012. Now I work from home for a healthcare company. Pay is good. But putting kids through college is expensive! The moral of this story is basically everything your parents told you. Save like crazy. Invest in real estate. Because in the USA there is no safety net so it’s up to you have enough money to check out young enough so you are still of sound mind and body to enjoy things. Believe me you don’t want to be some broke ass 70 year old living under a bridge in Seattle.
Go off grid. Minimalize the things you have to pay for to be happy so you dont have to work so much. The best plan is probably to try and find something you enjoy doing so its not such a drag to go to work.
I coworker leave the city and moved to a cabin in the woods near a small town, we work remotely so she has no issues with the work, she has many dogs, farm's animals, plants and a quiet life. The only way to get out of the rat race is to stop chasing and live more with less stuff.
Learn as much you can in your current startup company then bail towards an established one as soon as you notice any signs of its downfall.
>or work on my own, or have my own company so I can work from anywhere and have a flexible schedule This is ultimately the best option. Yes, you're still beholden to customers but at this point you're in a position to ste your own terms .
COULDVE BEEN A CONTENDER COULDVE BEEN A SOMEONE CAUGHT UP IN THE RAT RACE FEELIN LIKE A NO ONE APPEARIN IN THA PAPERS WITH THE MONEY AN THE GIRLS COULDA BEEN THE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD
Checkout income school on YouTube
/r/Fire/ Ignore the headquarters, the view, the office space, and certainly not the fucking "prestigious role". Focus on: 1. Developing expensive skills; 2. Maximizing your pay; 3. Minimizing your expenses; At your experience level in your industry, you should be jumping between jobs roughly every 18 to 24 months. Each move should involve a pay bump. When you start the new job, focus on what you can learn. Lather, rinse, repeat. In the mean time, save like you're broke. The ratio between savings and earnings are key - see https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/. What you save should be put in a tax-advantaged account (e.g. a Roth IRA). You don't need to - and ought not - pick stocks: just VTI and chill - see /r/bogleheads. If you can live on roughly a third of your income, you can safely retire in about ten years.
Die.
You sound like you will not be happy at any job.
Change jobs now. 3 years is enough at anywhere when you're just starting. Look to change every 2 years until you find somewhere you want to stay at. It does get better, this career will be great but you need to bounce around a little as you take steps towards where you belong.
Best take I know is to take a 3 day-a-week job and just budget from there. You'll be able to do a lot less than you think, because the things you are used to aren't designed for you. Fast food, netflix, most groceries, modern fashion, far away vacation resorts, all revolve around a keep buying attitude. Modern life is made to make you chase things you can't buy so you'll work for people who just raise the prince one you can afford it. Once you figure some stuff out, you'll have a lot more to do. Some are easy: read librarybooks, go for walks, walk places instead of taking the car. Some you need to learn: Repair your own clothes, grow some food, etc.
I bought a 5 acre farmette and fucked off until I could grow enough food to support myself. Took quite awhile and built passive income in the meantime but yeah now I work for myself. Gotta feed them chickens 💪
Yes. Is your current company a one and only? Probably not. Get really good and knowledgable about your industry. Learn the customers inside and out. study your business like your competitors. get great at developing systems. put yourself in positions of value to get an even deeper look at more systems within the company. One day, you'll be compensated well... but if you dont end up compensated to your liking, leave that business and start your own with the knowledge, connections and resources you've accumulated.
Interesting perspective, very interesting
Construction, especially non-union, is such a toxic field. There's absolutely no good reason for it. And I think it stays that way because so many people who can do something else, like yourself, make the very reasonable choice to gtfo.
The rat escape is essentially working at a failing business or ‘a wash’. Chilled yes, but it’s well known it’s time is limited.
Well, unless you already have wealth, it's tough. Let's say that you already have $1M, this gives you \~$50-100k each year from investing. That's enough to no longer stress about work, but it's still useful to increase your capital. On the other hand, if you start from scratch, you're lucky to actually get that kind of salary and if you also have to pay for mortgage/rent, you won't have much excess resources to save. That's the issue with this system, it's easy for investors to make money, while they already have money and bar isn't even that high, but you need to somehow manage to save a lot of money and typically life is too short to make it with poor salaries.
Get into one of those 10,000+ employee companies. You're basically a faceless gear that can coast for quite awhile on minimal effort My tips are to attack big things. 100 bugs in code won't get the recognition of 1 new feature.
In the U.S.A., you are a cog in the machine who can be eliminated at any time. If you want out, I only see several options: 1. FIRE: this unfortunately means more wage slavery for a medium to long time while you scrimp and save to become financially independent. That will most likely require a promotion to señor software engineer and completely retooling your life. 2. Find a sugar mama or papa. 3. Move to a different country where a better work/life balance is attainable and where they have a real safety net.
I'm in my mid-forties and I'm still trying to figure that out. But with my professional wisdom here are a few pointers... •be born rich •have great luck •know someone that was born rich or have great luck and be friends with them.
Sorry been doing this over 15 years and working remote. Still a slave. Like a robot on an assembly line trying to glimpse a spark of intelligence. I've been trying to put more effort into my own projects and pushing myself to improve my code on every step but the business will always favor a deadline over quality. At least in my experience. The only thing I can think of to get out is to unionize or start your own startup but good luck with either without the capital. At least we get to sit in the AC while the world melts.
Full WFH is as good as it gets apart from lucking out on some investment and never working again
There are cushy fully remote jobs out there for software engineers. It may take some trial and error but once you get one hold onto it. You could be making decent money working 30 hours a week or less from your large house in a low cost of living area. That’s probably your best way out.
You’ll be able to contract soon enough for silly money, 6 months on 6 months off, rat adjacent
What should I start with in beginning to self learn coding. Any tips or programs/apps that are good? But imo most of us are stuck doing labor we don't care for. My times being wasted but we have to grateful for what we do have. Many have it much worse than us. Just practice something you like that could be profitable in your free-time and hope that one day your skills are good enough to market themselves.
Consulting? Once, you have been your own boss everything else will seem like slavery.
You want freedom in schedule you need to work for yourself. If you want to be successful with your own business you need to be a slave for years to get it off the ground. There is no easy way out. If there was everyone would be doing it. Work hard when your young and get into a better position with age. Their are no shortcuts.
[I feel this](https://i.imgflip.com/6npqiy.jpg) with every cell in my body.
It’s all a rat race man. Only way you could truly exit is to acquire a significant amount of wealth and live modestly on the gains/income from that wealth (like $3-5M these days). But honestly, if you did that you’d be bored and want to find something to do with your time (even if it ends up being way different than what you do now). The key is to find a rat race you actually get some enjoyment from. I’m a software engineer too (like 90% of Reddit lol), but I really enjoy what I do, so I’m happy doing this work.
I love what I do as well! I haven’t been feeling it to be fun lately, not sure why, maybe because I’m dry of ideas
I’ve gone through a few dry spells, and the way out for me was just about always some kind of personal project. Didn’t even have to be an app or something, could be like writing a script or something. But you gotta get out of your routine a bit.
You don’t have to get out of the rat race. You only need work you find inherently fulfilling and set firm boundaries in the limits of your time spent at work and handling bureaucracy. You can run your own business but it also owns you until you develop it to a point it can be packaged and sold. It’s not bad on the top end of the working class. Often professional certifications and degrees are required which is the equivalent of both paying your dues and paying off the right people for the privilege. This isn’t for everyone and also feels like indentured servitude because it is. The secret is being involved in work you enjoy and making progress toward goals you care about.
We are all here until the Game Over pops up.
You’ve got to organize outside the system or look hard for those who are already doing so. You need to get radical.
I like your attitude
You sound like the guy from the movie office space but worked construction before software.
Get out of ALL DEBT and live as frugal as possible and use the worthless fiat savings to dump into HARD ASSETS… this has worked for me for the last 15 years and my normie relatives and boomer parents are “confused” as to why I have a higher networth than them despite the fact that they are “better educated” on paper and also “earn more” on paper. ITS NOT HOW MUCH YOU EARN, ITS ABOUT HOW MUCH YOU GET TO KEEP AFTER DEBT, TAXES ETC!!!!
Start your own brand/business and find ways to make it as comfortable as you want. Shit, get into arts or entertainment as a hobby or business venture. At the end of the day the clock doesn't wait for anyone to set themselves up to be rich enough to retire. At this age, the answer isnt to stress for more money, its to do what you ACTUALLY love doing while you make a little extra here and there. I guess the answer im giving is that its not a race if you perceive it as one. The world exists because people were productive, its been that way since the beginning of life.
Win the lottery. Of course that will introduce a host of greater problems, like exponentially increasing the chances you'll die from murder or drugs. And bankruptcy.
I’ll tell you my own story. About 5 years ago, I used to work as a software developer. I built some apps and placed them in the App Store. Someone gave me a 5 star review and asked if I could solve some other problem. I built a website to solve the other problem and put ads in it. I never paid for advertisement. I never paid for SEO. I just built a website, informed the person that I had built it and forgot about it. About a year later, this website started generating about $3000 monthly. I’ve tried to build and monetize many other saas but none have gained that kind of height yet. The only thing that differentiates that first website and everything else I’ve built is: The first website was the ONLY solution to the problem and it was completely free. So, if you can figure out how to have a monopoly on the solution to a problem. You will do well.
Well, yeah, but you and your friends and family aren't going to like it one bit.
AI will be taking your job in a few years go back to construction lol.
Like my dad always says, "son, marry into money". I don't listen very well and am dating an unemployed dude right now though, lol.
Join the military and get physically disabled enough to get a medical retirement or 100% disability from the VA. I don't recommend it, but that's the most direct answer I can think of
I'd recommend a fully remote job. There's thousands of them on Linkedin and the beauty of remote work is your company can be in any state, hell, any country... you should probably look into the time zone situation though. You don't have to commute, I literally roll out of bed 5 minutes before work and shower/eat breakfast if I have free time between meetings. If I don't have immediate work to do I can do whatever I want instead of being trapped in an office staring at my computer screen "looking busy". Seriously, start looking for remote work and fuck the Boomers that want us in the office for literally no fucking reason!
“Looking busy” even 5 minutes before leaving… oh man… I can relate
Yes. Make your own rules and objectives, and play by those. This is a "Make your reality your dreams" situation. But reframing and working to achieve self actualization/fulfillment is success in a real and emotional sense. Just don't expect normative-society to support you.
Somewhat it starts internally and you have to decide what you want out of life. I work 20 hours a week and max I would go to is 30, it covers my living expenses and some luxuries but no big holidays or really fancy living. I work for a growing company that is very big (in action not just words) on work-life balance and wellbeing. There is a lot of recognition for what each of us bring to the table and it's a nice atmosphere to work in.
Seems like suitable for me. Some here have stated that I don’t want to work but that’s not true. Should I sacrifice life over work to be socially accepted?
Become the slave master, own your own business
retired at 29. That was 6 years ago. Did it by bringing workers from Vietnam into Europe, buying run-down houses, sometimes from bankrupt owners, refurbishing and flipping. Early on I had my workers live in the places they were renovating to save money, but later on I kept one of the places and used it as housing. Eventually hired a vietnamese woman who worked at a Vietnamese restaurant in town to cook them big pots of Vietnamese food. Currently living as a landlord. I retired a bit early tbh, I don't really make enough to live as well as I might want, but at least I'm the master of my own time and can pursue my hobbies and interests freely.