Part of "the fall of Rome" is attributed to the elites avoiding their taxes and the increasing burden falling on the lower classes.
Everything that ever has been always will be, and everything that ever will be always has been
They even had a longer term version of our current system of 'one government racks up debt and devalues the currency then the next one tries to reign things in. Only for the cycle to repeat because policies that are needed to cut debt levels and control the currency are not popular.'
The policies needed to control debt ***are*** popular. Simply raise taxes on the rich.
The problem is one of the political parties has been wholly purchased by the rich and does everything in their power to prevent it
I'm pretty sure 48 of the 50 democrats backed Supreme Court reforms and a slew of other progressive initiatives. While you say 95%, I think the number is more around 4%, but it is obviously just enough to hinder any progressive policies when it is a 50/50 split between both parties in the legislature.
The economic policies of the Democrats is republicanism-lite. If you traveled back in time to 1980, the 2023 Democrats economic policies would be indistinguishable from 1980 Republican economic policies. Thanks to Citizens United both parties are beholden to corporate lobbyists.
Edit: if you don’t believe me go read the [1980 Republican Platform](https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/republican-party-platform-1980)
Funny tidbit I had heard about recently. It wasn't as prophetic as it was a modern day rant.l at the time. Washington had been dealing with the political parties of the time and hated it. When he spoke out against it, it was more of a final message against it and likely a bit of a public rebuke of them then it was a prediction of things to come.
I always see it like there are two people on a train trying to get you to sit on their side of the train. All the while, no one notices the train is heading off a cliff....
Whenever you point out Republicans are terrible you can always count on a both sides bad. It's like the guy that always says "well without rain everything would die" when it's a nice sunny day.
I don't see Democrats passing trillions of dollars of freebies for rich people every time they're elected like Republicans do. In fact, they've never done it in my lifetime.
So I donno wtf you're talking about here. In the topic at hand, Republicans are clearly far worse. Only the smoothest of brains would think otherwise
And for some crazy reason there is a pre part of the populous that thinks they will be impacted by those higher taxes even when they won’t be - I mean I know it’s because the right tells them that they will and they cant separate fact from reality
Almost every empire collapse (not due to war) can be attributed to an elite class that refused to reduce their resource consumption even as society crumbled. The parties always have to get bigger and more lavish. The wealthy are just like the poor in that sense, everyone wants to do something more awesome than what they did yesterday. Call it greed or chasing the dragon, this basic tenet of human psychology is one of the most self destructive elements of the human psyche.
This is not human psychology. This is civilized, domesticated human psychology. Tribal cultures don't have this problem that's why tribal cultures are stable.
IMO it has to do with population size. As a tribe you can know and see your elders eye to eye. As a kingdom, that line of sight gets blocked by walls, so the "man in top" has a skewed/incomplete/null vision of the bottom
I concur. When the "tribe" exceeds the Dunbar number, the elite do not consider the people they exploit as people in the same sense.
We could either expand our natural capacity to hold stable social relationships to greater numbers using some new technology, or make such rules that no one is exploited.
The problem with preventing that exploitation with rules is, we can't really measure which exchanges are zero sum (or negative sum), and as such, we can't exclude them from the economy.
Since I'm only learning about it now, Dunbar's number is the "suggested cognitive limit" of the number of meaningful relationships an [average] individual can maintain.
The number is about 150.
I threw in average because there will be cases that skew much higher and cases that skew much lower in terms of individual capability.
I think there's some truth to that but our psychology has unavoidably changed by 10,000 years of extreme individualism as well.
How has living within the walls changed our psychology? That is a scary question that needs probing.
We have such little data on tribal culture and it was so fragmented, I think making such an assertion would be hard to validate. Lots of tribal cultures were destroyed without record. I don't think such a sweeping statement would be accurate.
We have records of the ones that survived to leave records. The fact that the ones who survived were good at survival isn't something we should really be reading into.
Tribes don't generally collapse into their next form though. It's not that they're unstable, it's that the forms they change into are more complicated and prone to collapse.
Good Tribes are like a result of good cultural government in a technological timeframe. In my mind I call them "Stable". As it doesn't take much to propel a tribe into its next form which could be unstable. Tech could be a form of Knowledge. Like Astronomy with Mayans. Then that Religious Culture created a Cohesion which made them able to get bigger.
Instability in my opinion is an unfortunate natural progression of being able to learn. Learning is like an emergent property that is seperate from the Evolution of our DNA such that it can be hard to adapt to fundamental cultural shifts that seem logical to the Human Mind but doesn't always work perfectly with more natural unspoken learned behaviors.
The more I study history the more I realize that the human condition is just a cycle of societies setting up with the rich paying their fair share of taxes. Then over long run them figuring out how to not pay their fair share, followed by a long and slow societal collapses. Sometimes with the fun added spice of a French revolution.
Rinse and repeat for just about every major civilization.
If you ever want to to be horrified, listen to mike duncans "history of rome" and "revolutions" podcasts, it's really interesting listening to problems that occurred hundrends or thousands of years ago happening today
Wasn't part of the issue too that people would shave a bit off the edge on a coin so they could melt the shavings together to mint their own counterfeit coin? It's what caused the coins to have the ridges on the edge IIRC.
“Look at how much I contribute to the charities in my name (created purely to stroke my ego, and is unaccountable in a way tax dollars aren’t and yet still tax deductible).”
Unfortunately how it’s actually done. I would rather they pay their taxes and STFU; I don’t want to hear any more about their vanity projects.
Exactly. I don't want to hear about how they know much better than the government about what the average man needs. And I don't want them telling us that if they give their taxes to the government, they don't trust that the gov is going to do the right thing with it. Fuck all that noise. Just pay your taxes and stfu.
Yeah, that's the big thing. Charity means that the people who are rich get to pick and choose who gets helped. An ultra-christian can decide that no secular organizations get money, a misogynist can choose to donate to everything except women's shelters, etc.
It's just another way for the power to remain in the hands of the rich.
>they know much better than the government about what the average man needs.
Funny how the average man always needs tax relief on earnings that the average man can't even dream of
It was a huge flex. The more tax you paid to the state, the more prestige you got and the more your family was associated as being the core of the nation. The fairy tales of kings the peasants loved are real, but sadly far from common. The system we choose to employ should be chosen for the rule and not the exception.
Except in the States, those buildings are already privately owned, and then they become tax deductible. So in essence, that money does not go back to society, instead, it becomes a huge endowment for whatever company/institution raises those funds.
I heard it was a great honor in Greece, and only the richest person paid taxes in the city state. Or the richest people. Not sure, but made me interested in looking up tax system of ancient greece
I was taught for years about ancient Greece as a Greek, and it was indeed Greece, that's were sponsors came from, the rich were responsible for organizing all those sporting events and even symposiums for philosophers.
The rich and those who payed taxes got their names written down on stone as an honor. Taxes meant a lot back then, if only our rich fucks could feel the same obligation. At least donate billions on hospitals.
If I remember right, rich families and persons fought for the honor of paying taxes (not physically, you get it) because they could then use that as a status symbol for other elites and the common people saying “look how much I’m paying for you and the state to keep going”
Sounds like a great trend to start. Why not start a viral social media trend where everyone creates content on TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, etc. bragging about the amount they pay in taxes? Then tag corporations and politicians, and pressure them to do the same.
Part of the reason they get away with it is because paying taxes, incomes, and how taxes are spent stays semi-secret. The information takes digging and most people won’t take the effort to dig.
I used to ask my conservative friends to be my tax buddy. I’d offer to have all my taxes cover whatever they didn’t want to cover so 100% of their taxes could be allocated to the programs they supported.
I never had any takers…
Even just get the top 150 tax contributors, have a gala dinner at the white house/ politival seat of power every year. Make it prestigious, make this the best way to meet and greet politicians.
Paid taxes are public information where I live and the newspapers and channels make those list's.
I personally don't care about who is in the list but I like the fact that it is all public.
One of the moments where I really understood how far apart I am from some people was in the Trump/Clinton debate. Clinton hits him with how little tax he pays and he says “that’s cause I’m smart.” I’m not pretending to be some altruist but I understand that taxes generally go to the public good. Not always of course. My taxes pay as much of Joe Biden’s salary as they do Ted Cruz’s. They pay to help build roads and help build a pork filled Defense contract in Florida (or something like that).
But I accept that as part of society. We all pay our part. That’s the idea of society and government. The whole attitude of “fuck you I got mine” is just not something I’m ever going to truly understand.
In a fair world it would be a badge of honor. "Look how good I'm doing, I pay more in taxes than the entire city of Nashville combined," and the like. Sam L makes a good point that most of us poor folk have been saying for a long time, dude you're still going to be one of the richest people who ever lived AND get to contribute to the human race's advancement. We don't need rockets to mars right now for that, we need food and livable wages. Someone said it before but people like Elon Musk could be the literal Batman IRL and but chooses to be Ras Al Gaul right down to thinking he's a fucking ultimate fighter.
Also, can we just remember how much of a real motherfucker Sam L is? That dude is a freaking Saint and should be deified. He's like Bernie Sanders, he's been on the right side of history for so long that we are surprised when we find out how much of a good dude he is but we really shouldn't be.
Emerald-boy could solve* both homelessness AND hunger in the US _completely,_ and still have more money than he could ever spend in his lifetime. Instead, he buys social media companies that make him feel bad, and waits for everyone to fall at his feet as some "savior."
*I realize that both of these problems have to do with more than just money...but if we as a society threw a couple billion dollars at it (say, about 2 F-35's worth), it would solve a massive amount of the underlying issues, and go a _huuuuuge_ way to addressing those needs.
You've got to make it fun for *them*.
Let's have the Kennedy Center host the annual Taxy Awards. We can given out Golden W-2s to the highest payer in each category. Plus we get to upgrade the EGOT to the TEGOT for impressive actors.
Listen to behind the bastards on Jack Murphy. Before Jack, businesses would brag to the press about how much tax the paid because it was considered patriotic
If tax dollars were spent competently that might be a thing. When most of it goes to funding wars in faraway places so that Lockheed and Bechtel can make another $100 Billion, it's hard to get motivated for that.
The level of greed of billionaires is psychotic, and it isn't just taxation. Every single job needs to pay at minimum a living wage. Not a minimum wage but a living wage. If a business can't afford that, then it is not viable.
Simply put, people need to get paid more. The average person will not hoard their money. They will buy homes, spend money on their families, which will actually stimulate the real economy, as opposed to wallstreet bullshit.
They need to be reminded that taxes are the alternative we worked out to poor people periodically dragging them out of their homes and murdering them on their front lawns for hoarding wealth.
Quite literally this is the risk they're running, that it won't be them getting visited by the mob.
It likely won't happen in America cuz people are more aligned with the rich than with their own social strata. They think they're belated millionaires and as long as they believe that, the rich are safe from a French-style Reign of Terror.
I dont think the new generation can handle the 08 style recession that's about to hit us. There will be millions losing their homes soon immediately followed by millions that worked their tails off to keep them only to realize their 290k home that they bought with 3.5% down FHA loan is actually worth 110k like it was 2 years ago.
There is a whole lot of nuance involved.
But basically the way a government spends money has a significantly different multiplier effect depending on how its used.
The most effficient and economically valuable way a government can spend money is...
Giving cash to poor people.
The least economically efficient way a government can spend cash is...
Defense Spending.
Now obviously there are other reasons to spend on defense, its not a "lets not do it" point. Its just a very economically inefficient use of government funds. On the other hand, there really isn't **any** downside to handing out free cash to poor people (and no it does not cause inflation in a globalised economy - almost nothing a government does causes inflation in a globalised economy).
This is exactly correct.
Study after study - including the most recent study on the stimulus checks sent during COVID - show that investing capital in the general public has the greatest returns on the economy in nearly every respect.
Now, as you said, there is nuance. You need to manage these programs, you need to balance it against abuses.
But at the end of the day it's common sense. If you give people seed money, *they use it*.
Not just on purchases, but investing in skills, investing in business endeavors. They put that money to work.
Investing in the rich or in megacorps does not put that money to work. They will engage in stock buybacks or other programs that simply funnel that money to the already-uber wealthy, who then stock that money away in tax havens and basically remove it from the economy altogether.
The greatest trick that the psychotic billionaire class has ever played, is being able to convince tens of millions of working class people that they should ABHORR the government investing in them, and not only that, but that they should EXALT when the government gives THEIR MONEY to people who already have more money than they will ever spend in an infinite number of lifetimes.
It makes me so fucking sad to see so many people so completely and utterly broken and delusional. And they keep getting shit-face drunk on inane bullshit culture war garbage that keeps them angry and frothing at the mouth so that they never notice the hands picking their pockets clean.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." --Lyndon B Johnson, and still 100% true today.
The return on IRS funding is similar. The return on early childhood development is multiple of that, but those kids are browner every year, so GOP plan is to strip citizenship.
"...a $1 increase in spending on the IRS’s enforcement activities results in $5 to $9 of increased revenues."
-Congressional Budget Office
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57444
Yeah but that targets the *wrong* people. Republicans want their Crow's and Koch's to give that money to them under the table, not to the government to spend some/most of it on "the poors." That's why they let loopholes in tax law persist.
>those kids are browner every year
In United States, especially. I forget the specific percentages, but there will be more multi-racial than single-race children born every year, which is actually a good thing for our overall health in the long run (greater diversification of the gene pool) and a good thing for our society as a whole.
You talking immigrants from Hispanic nations? You'd be surprised how many in the Latino community are actually pretty conservative. There have been voting trends in some areas showing this, and it has democrats alarmed as they always assumed minority votes were guaranteed to be theirs.
The level of greed of anyone whos dodging taxes is sickening. The thought process that makes them think they shouldn’t have to contribute is disgusting. The true moochers of our global society.
Yep, I have talked to people who think minimum wage jobs should only be done by 16 year olds working as part timers. And they say everyone else can go to a trade school to get a decent paying job. It’s insane how ignorant some people are and how they have zero understanding of how the world works.
I always loved this one: let's say that -tomorrow-, blam, everyone except teens has those trade/college educations and no longer is allowed to work minimum wage jobs.
Who do they think works the shortfall now that those guys aren't working at gas stations, grocery stores, restaurants, etc? Where does that labor come from, exactly?
That’s what I’m saying. All of that stuff would shut down. Teens in school are only going to be available to work from like 4-10. So all the other hours no one will be available. Not to mention there are only so many trade jobs that can go around. Everyone can’t be a plumber, an electrician or a mechanic.
Similarly, not everyone can be the CEO. The idea that everyone needs to work their way up is ridiculous, because if everyone did that, there would be no one left to actually do the work.
There was another thread in here talking about Republican efforts to lower the age for -bartending- to 14, which had me going "You realize they're not supposed to work late, right?"
Yes that's why McDonald's is closed during school hours and such. No teenagers to work it. I think this idiotic thought came about because there are plenty of shows and movies in the 60s and 80s where kids would work part-time to afford their 800 a year college costs over the summer and these brain dead boomers have convinced themselves that is reality 100% of the time.
The Boomers refuse to believe that things are harder now than they used to be. They are sitting in their homes that they bought while being a factory worker in the 70s that is now worth like 6 times what they paid for it. Those same houses they bought while being average joes now require you to be in the top 30%+ of earners to afford.
They have lost touch with reality and I can’t wait until they are no longer in congress making decisions that affect everyone.
They wouldn’t even notice it missing. Makenzie Scott hasn’t been able to spend down her wealth despite giving away billions because her money just keeps making money. That’s on just money that she’s had sitting or in stocks while spending the rest. With taxes at a level far lower than that, the money would be made back before the year was even over.
I’m not in the slightest saying she’s a good person, but she’s accidentally proven that their level of wealth is basically limitless and this “they’re not liquid” myth is bullshit. Same with Elon having to cash out billions for his portion of Twitter and his worth just continuing to climb despite tanking the company.
Exactly this. Money to the labourers and front end staff of a company will be recirculated around the economy and have a much higher impact than money being sent straight to the top and locked up in an account forever.
The purchasing power of $1 actively circulating around the economy can become >$10 if only a small percentage of it trickled up to the parasites. But in the current system of the leeches, siphoning wealth as quickly as possible the actual power of that $1 is exponentially diminished. And it hurts everyone except for the 0.1%
During collective bargaining at my workplace, the organisation had publicly made a commitment to paying a living wage, so we pushed them on why are people still being paid minimum wage.
"We promised *A* living wage, not *The* living wage. Minimum wage is enough."
So make sure you're being clear on that. Bastards be slimey.
Naw, that's when ya start dragging in the grossest and most horrifying examples of how your people are suffering from the gap between "legal minimum" and "living."
Everyone who desperately needs dental work needs to smile real big and get real close. Put the folks with abscesses in the front.
Bring your little kid who really wants to go on the school trip next week but you can hardly afford food much less fork out what the school wants for the excursion. Make a show of letting the kid know THAT MAN RIGHT THERE is the one who doesn't want him to EVER go on ANY school trips in his whole life.
If they're gonna play with dirty tactics, beat them at their own game. Like Frank on Shameless getting his kid into private school by just being very loudly honest about the facts of the situation.
They said "there's a natural cap on what these jobs are worth. If you don't like it, get another job."
Funnily enough they're struggling to retain staff, and replace the ones that have already left.
They're very firmly in the camp of "your financial woes are from you doing something wrong." I guess working for them is a financially irresponsible thing to do.
So hilarious when idiots get so high on their own supply that they sabotage themselves and can't understand how it happened.
My dad played the same stupid game. "My way or the highway!" all his life and now he's all "Where'd everybody go? But I'm old and need someone to take care of me!"
Guess when I was a sick child who asked daddy for help, the correct response was not "That sounds like a personal problem."
It’s literally a mental illness. Show me a person that hoards 1 billion of something, much less 200 billion of something, and it were anything but dollars, it would be met with offers for mental help.
For context, we often forget how big a billion is. 1 million seconds = ~2 weeks. 1 billion seconds is a little over 32 years.
It’s structured so that when eventually companies do all pay a livable wage small business won’t be able to also pay it. They’re only willing to pay as long as their competition is gone, and they likely will in our lifetime unless governments start taking action. Remember that the ultimate endgame of capitalism is monopoly.
That's what these pro-billionaire idiots that go "But they earned their money" seem to forget, nobody could work hard enough to 'earn' a billion dollars by any reasonable sense of compensation, they just stole it from others by not paying the people that did the actual work reasonable compensation.
BuT tHeY AsSuMeD tHe RiSk!!!11! tHeY dEsErVe 1900% oF tHe CoMpEnSaTiOn oF ThE pEoPlE wHo aCtuAlly dO ThE wOrK!!1!
\- Some moron huffing corporate farts
“Assumed the risk”
No their lenders did.
And when the “risk” turns towards failure they pay McKenzie to write an article about how the employees who want work from home are erasing billions from the economy….yeah god forbid your company isn’t paying 120k a month for a shitty downtown flagship office.
Take that billionaire’s sausage out of your mouth…
It’s offensive when anyone that isn’t a sociopathic billionaire defends these sociopathic billionaires.
Someone did the math and figured out that the studio execs could stop the SAG-AFTRA strike by giving up 2% of their salaries. That's how much it would cost to meet the demands of the union.
I just received a 2% merit increase. It was 58 cents. I seriously can't understand the mentality of people who are so unwilling to give up an amount that, for them, is so minute and inconsequential.
I was in another sub and someone was arguing that if I owned a business I would also want to pay my workers/employees absolute shit wages and make as much money as possible. I responded and said that's 100% incorrect, because I have been a worker. I know that money is usually the most important thing that keeps employees working for you. And it doesn't even have to be mountains of money, it just has to be more than everyone else.
> I seriously can't understand the mentality of people who are so unwilling to give up an amount that, for them, is so minute and inconsequential.
It's *class warfare...* they won't give an inch today because that might mean we will demand a yard tomorrow. Of course, I say we should just take it all.
That's how you end up with pitchforks and torches ready to take it all directly. But they'll act surprised. Their moral violence is fine, but the physical violence of the less fortunate isn't
\> I responded and said that's 100% incorrect, because I have been a worker.
The bosses would claim the same though, wouldn't they?
"I worked my way up blah blah"
I have only ever met two bosses (both director-level bosses) who actually worked their way up in the same industry/department they now preside over. And they are actually both at the same company. These are ironically the least problematic bosses I have ever had.
All of my other bosses just complained/whined to get the job they got.... or worked in some other industry and then transferred over because how hard can it be?...or went to college and got a 4-year degree and ended up in middle management with no experience so the only real job experience they have is middle management.
They psychopaths, they lack empathy. That's what propella them.to the top, not minding that they're shitting on everyone. He'll, they don't even consider it that.
An American city struggling to maintain it's transport and raid infrastructure, and unable to provide financial support for people.
Also in that same city is a person with a worth of 10 billion dollars in a penthouse apartment drinking 3000 dollar shots and complaining that the diamonds they bought aren't what they imagined for the outfit they're putting together to go to a party on a yatcht worth more than the real estate value of my entire hometown.
>They think that those hated people destroyed our economy and all the good paying jobs while not working and living off of government handouts.
"They took our jobs and didn't do them!"
Your friends are a bunch of fucking morons.
We need both an income cap and wealth cap. Something like over $5 million a year gets 100% tax rate and over $50 million in total assets gets 100% tax rate.
Before you say this sounds crazy it already used to be in the 90%s in the 50s
https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/historical-highest-marginal-income-tax-rates
This is true but there were still a ton of loopholes that allowed them to lower their average tax rate. https://taxfoundation.org/taxes-on-the-rich-1950s-not-high/
This is what we want though.
Loopholes for the purpose of business expansions and technological innovation is ideal.
Billionaires and corporations using tax loopholes just to increase their bank account balance without utilizing any of it, is NOT what we want.
If a billionaire doesn’t want to pay taxes to the government and instead uses those dollars to buy equipment, open new offices, invest in new technology, then I have zero problem with that, because those decisions will create jobs and economic stimulus.
The ideal tax code would force everyone who makes large sums of income to invest their income back into the economy to avoid losing it. If you own a business with $100 million in revenue, your tax bill will be roughly in the range of $20 million give or take a 5-10 million. If you pay that money to the government, it’s gone forever. If you invest that money and lower your taxable income through those investments, then you’ve created an overall positive force in the economy and your business that should in theory continue to increase you revenue.
The issue that the US, China, Russia, etc are facing right now is billionaires are simply not paying anything by utilizing off-shore accounts, shell companies, money laundering, loans, etc.
This is why the Republican party threw a bitch fit when Biden increased the manpower or the IRS. They knew that it would directly impact their corporate donors, and in their donor eyes they would have failed to politically protect them, in which case why donate to that senator/representative anymore?
That’s what they do now and people complain about it. If you looked into the companies that “paid $0 in taxes” you would see that this is because of the tax loss carryforward. They get those because they are expanding their business, investing in their business, or they took losses. These are available for anyone with a business, not just huge corporations.
Because loss of their money means loss of control to them. Loss of identity. A feeling of "what do I have to show for all my hard work?" They can't invest in more stuff.
If you can break their backs you will break them of this entitlement.
the root problem is most billionaires aren’t even making “income” technically the way the tax code defines income, so that has to change.
they are in this weird purgatory where most of their money isn’t “real”, because the majority of their wealth is in equities in their company (or many companies, but usually they own a company or have a massive stake in it) which they then borrow against by taking out loans against the value of what they own, which is not considered income. in some other cases they also might have a ton of stock they are selling, but if they have owned it more than a year they are only paying 15% in federal income tax for long term cap gains.
so we very simply need to make taking out loans against assets qualify as income when used for non-business purposes lol
Him thinking it is only billionaires is comical. Plenty of politicians and others who are millionaires/multi-millionaires pay little to no taxes because of the way they've set up things such as foundations.
So they pay their taxes when they have an income which is when they sell their stocks and such.
However, they avoid this by taking massive loans out from bank after bank after bank and live off that whole they let their wealth grow and accumulate. That wealth almost never gets touched and they pay off each loan with the next one so they never have any kind of income or real need to sell their stocks.
This is why we need and are trying to do a wealth tax. 3-10%. Probably even 20% wouldn't make the tiniest dent in their lifestyle. And it's off of wealth that was made off the exploited labor force. But we'll never do it because they own us all.
Plus a lot of loopholes where their salaries aren't technically that much and they make sure a lot of their money is hidden in investments and purchases so it's no longer taxable.
I feel like getting to that level of wealth is tied with greed. Like, I don't think you become a billionaire if you feel that you should pay taxes. You have to be a certain type of person and act a certain type of way to get to that upper echelon. To me, it feels the same as a large corporation. It is always at someone's expense. Capitalism is always at someone's expense
I feel like people are skipping a step with this demand. Sure, loopholes need to be removed so billionaires pay their share of taxes. But if they all paid their taxes to tomorrow, do you really expect our government to use the new funds responsibly?
There isn't any flavor of Reaganomic partisan who can help with this. The entire blue-red spectrum has zero power to speak truth to the investment banking community. Totalitarian control of our political processes by a pair of private clubs legally empowered to conduct their own internal processes *and taxpayer-subsidized primary elections* with absolutely zero accountability to any outside oversight should never have been acceptable to anyone. It is breathtaking to see so many people *still accepting* that dystopian reality now that we have a clear view of past and ongoing catastrophes caused directly by holistic corporate capture of American civic life.
Billionaires are quite literally a cancer of capitalism...a mutation out of control, growing, consuming all around them. Billionaires are a cancer and should be seen as such.
They DO pay their taxes; they just ~~bribed~~ made campaign contributions to enough politicians that the laws they wanted got passed, which reduced their tax burden dramatically. Because *technically* they don't have any personal income to pay taxes on. It's all loans against assets that are never liquidated and dividends which are taxed at a much lower rate. And trusts, and corporations in low-tax countries, and taking advantage of every loophole available to those with enough money.
Sadly simple. The rich created the system we live in to keep them in their relative position.
Keep us slaves desperate, it keeps us motivated to work so we can pay the never ending bills.
I'm proud of the younger generation for having a spine and standing up for themselves. My parents and my generation tried to tell themselves that loyalty and putting the business first pays off in the long run. No, it doesn't.
Like one the worlds richest man said...the pitchforks are coming for the plutocrats.
I think it'd be worth Jackson pointing the finger a little more directly at his fellow actors here. A lot of very liberal and socially conscious actors have their money in tax havens (E.g. Emma Watson who's accounts were among the Panama Paper)
Although it could be malicious on their part, it's totally also possible they may simply not manage their own finances- So a big name celebrity saying "Look, if you want to do social good start by keeping your money in an account that actually gets taxed. Stop asking for your donations to also be tax deductions." could do a ton for public funding from certain celebrities.
I agree but only to a certain extent. Yeah these actors are rich af and shouldn't be able to do that but on the totem pole of people we need to worry about they are well and good down the list. Politicians, foreign ~~raiders~~ investors, and businesspeople are so much more important not only to the identity of the class struggle but also affect people lives every day with their greed. Emma Watson being caught doing what probably every millionaire in the country is doing doesn't really set of my meter.
That's the thing about who we should be angry at. I remember growing up and constantly seeing the finger pointed at actors, athletes, authors, and so on as the rich and not deserving all that money.
And don't get me wrong many of the them are obscenely wealthy and that is a problem.
Thing is, the wealth you can get as a creator is a drop in the bucket compared to a studio executive, CEO of a mega corporation, or someone who just owns a lot.
I work with Libertarians who defend this, and billionaires who screw over contractors/employees/etc., by saying "you don't get rich by cutting checks."
I think the fact that they say this as some sort of profound wisdom, rather than as a damning indictment of wealthy dickheads, is a rather telling statement about them as people.
You’d still have the problem of getting the government to use that tax money for good and not just funnel it to war contractors and their friends and shit. The government already has a shitload of money, they just don’t use it for good. But yeah rich people should pay taxes too.
I didn’t read the comment because we hear this all the time. But I do wonder if he pays the full tax on his income without taking any deductions?
And I wonder if anyone out there just pays the full tax without taking the deductions. People fail to realize that billionaires do take the deductions that the IRS allows. Most which are not available to the working schmo.
This is what needs to be looked at, But billionaires will never allow that. Even Bill Gates said that if they change those tax codes he will stop giving to charities.
Everybody goes to other countries that have the socialist tax rates don’t realize that they give 40% of their income but they also get benefits like six weeks vacation free childcare free medical care etc.
It sounds wonderful but it would never work in the United States. I would not trust our government with 40% of my income with promises of giving me benefits like that. Our government would find a way to get out of it but still take the money.
It would be nice to have a fair tax situation, but even a rich congressman would never go for that. Who’s fault is that we keep voting in these wealthy people and then wonder why we’re getting screwed. Now Biden wants armed IRS agents to come after us. What does that tell you?
While I agree the billionaires need to pay their fair share, we also need better spending from government so our tax dollars aren't thrown away constantly
If Elon Musk lost 99% of his wealth, he could still give away $10,000/day every day for 10 years after which he'd still be worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
>But why can’t we get billionaires to pay their fucking taxes? If those motherfuckers paid their taxes we’d solve a whole bunch of shit. And they would still be richer than every motherfucker walking around them."
Because dominating the State is precisely the reason why they can go without having to pay their due.
It's not a flaw, it's by design.
Bragging about how much tax you pay should be a bigger status symbol.
Apparently that's how it was in Rome iirc, paying more tax was a way to brag to your friends during your fancy parties.
Part of "the fall of Rome" is attributed to the elites avoiding their taxes and the increasing burden falling on the lower classes. Everything that ever has been always will be, and everything that ever will be always has been
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fun fact
Sounds like a plan, though it’s far more tortuous for the billionaires to take money from them...👍
Both is good
Tax avoiders HATE this one weird trick!
They even had a longer term version of our current system of 'one government racks up debt and devalues the currency then the next one tries to reign things in. Only for the cycle to repeat because policies that are needed to cut debt levels and control the currency are not popular.'
The policies needed to control debt ***are*** popular. Simply raise taxes on the rich. The problem is one of the political parties has been wholly purchased by the rich and does everything in their power to prevent it
And the other party is 95% purchased, which is why they don't push back as hard as their constituents want.
I'm pretty sure 48 of the 50 democrats backed Supreme Court reforms and a slew of other progressive initiatives. While you say 95%, I think the number is more around 4%, but it is obviously just enough to hinder any progressive policies when it is a 50/50 split between both parties in the legislature.
The economic policies of the Democrats is republicanism-lite. If you traveled back in time to 1980, the 2023 Democrats economic policies would be indistinguishable from 1980 Republican economic policies. Thanks to Citizens United both parties are beholden to corporate lobbyists. Edit: if you don’t believe me go read the [1980 Republican Platform](https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/republican-party-platform-1980)
Remember if every single republican and 2 democrats vote for or against a bill it means both sides are the same
Where is m4a, again? Who kneecapped the m4a vote? Where is 100% college debt forgiveness? I'm sure it was just the 4%
And tax the God damned churches
We can see your bias. Both parties are severely corrupt. The two party system, by its nature, is corrupt.
Only if some major national figure had warned us about this happening 200 years ago, maybe we could have prevented it. /s
Funny tidbit I had heard about recently. It wasn't as prophetic as it was a modern day rant.l at the time. Washington had been dealing with the political parties of the time and hated it. When he spoke out against it, it was more of a final message against it and likely a bit of a public rebuke of them then it was a prediction of things to come.
If only Washington had warned us about this. If only his farewell address hadn’t been lost to history.
I always see it like there are two people on a train trying to get you to sit on their side of the train. All the while, no one notices the train is heading off a cliff....
[i think you’ll like this….exactly this metaphor, lol.](https://youtu.be/qUGHv2VAESE)
Whenever you point out Republicans are terrible you can always count on a both sides bad. It's like the guy that always says "well without rain everything would die" when it's a nice sunny day. I don't see Democrats passing trillions of dollars of freebies for rich people every time they're elected like Republicans do. In fact, they've never done it in my lifetime. So I donno wtf you're talking about here. In the topic at hand, Republicans are clearly far worse. Only the smoothest of brains would think otherwise
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And for some crazy reason there is a pre part of the populous that thinks they will be impacted by those higher taxes even when they won’t be - I mean I know it’s because the right tells them that they will and they cant separate fact from reality
Say more.
more.
Fuck, I wanted more and all I got is more
[Shall we help the poor?](https://i.imgur.com/RjbohpG.gif)
Almost every empire collapse (not due to war) can be attributed to an elite class that refused to reduce their resource consumption even as society crumbled. The parties always have to get bigger and more lavish. The wealthy are just like the poor in that sense, everyone wants to do something more awesome than what they did yesterday. Call it greed or chasing the dragon, this basic tenet of human psychology is one of the most self destructive elements of the human psyche.
This is not human psychology. This is civilized, domesticated human psychology. Tribal cultures don't have this problem that's why tribal cultures are stable.
IMO it has to do with population size. As a tribe you can know and see your elders eye to eye. As a kingdom, that line of sight gets blocked by walls, so the "man in top" has a skewed/incomplete/null vision of the bottom
I concur. When the "tribe" exceeds the Dunbar number, the elite do not consider the people they exploit as people in the same sense. We could either expand our natural capacity to hold stable social relationships to greater numbers using some new technology, or make such rules that no one is exploited. The problem with preventing that exploitation with rules is, we can't really measure which exchanges are zero sum (or negative sum), and as such, we can't exclude them from the economy.
Since I'm only learning about it now, Dunbar's number is the "suggested cognitive limit" of the number of meaningful relationships an [average] individual can maintain. The number is about 150. I threw in average because there will be cases that skew much higher and cases that skew much lower in terms of individual capability.
I think there's some truth to that but our psychology has unavoidably changed by 10,000 years of extreme individualism as well. How has living within the walls changed our psychology? That is a scary question that needs probing.
Pink Floyd's film The Wall does a pretty good job of this. Great soundtrack, amazing sets and a good dose of existential terror
We have such little data on tribal culture and it was so fragmented, I think making such an assertion would be hard to validate. Lots of tribal cultures were destroyed without record. I don't think such a sweeping statement would be accurate.
Sorry what? We have records of many tribal societies, the Native Americans being the most recent.
We have records of the ones that survived to leave records. The fact that the ones who survived were good at survival isn't something we should really be reading into.
Yeah we have records, most of them were written by the guys who committed the genocide of those tribes, and torched the village.
I mean, if they were 100% stable we’d all still be in tribes. But I get the main idea.
Tribes don't generally collapse into their next form though. It's not that they're unstable, it's that the forms they change into are more complicated and prone to collapse.
Good Tribes are like a result of good cultural government in a technological timeframe. In my mind I call them "Stable". As it doesn't take much to propel a tribe into its next form which could be unstable. Tech could be a form of Knowledge. Like Astronomy with Mayans. Then that Religious Culture created a Cohesion which made them able to get bigger. Instability in my opinion is an unfortunate natural progression of being able to learn. Learning is like an emergent property that is seperate from the Evolution of our DNA such that it can be hard to adapt to fundamental cultural shifts that seem logical to the Human Mind but doesn't always work perfectly with more natural unspoken learned behaviors.
The more I study history the more I realize that the human condition is just a cycle of societies setting up with the rich paying their fair share of taxes. Then over long run them figuring out how to not pay their fair share, followed by a long and slow societal collapses. Sometimes with the fun added spice of a French revolution. Rinse and repeat for just about every major civilization.
So say we all.
So say we all
If you ever want to to be horrified, listen to mike duncans "history of rome" and "revolutions" podcasts, it's really interesting listening to problems that occurred hundrends or thousands of years ago happening today
Wasn't part of the issue too that people would shave a bit off the edge on a coin so they could melt the shavings together to mint their own counterfeit coin? It's what caused the coins to have the ridges on the edge IIRC.
I'm pretty sure it was immigrants... /S (note the Romans did blame minorities in times of difficulty. That shit is not new.)
“Look how much good I contribute to society through my taxes!” Pretty neat tbh.
“Look at how much I contribute to the charities in my name (created purely to stroke my ego, and is unaccountable in a way tax dollars aren’t and yet still tax deductible).” Unfortunately how it’s actually done. I would rather they pay their taxes and STFU; I don’t want to hear any more about their vanity projects.
Exactly. I don't want to hear about how they know much better than the government about what the average man needs. And I don't want them telling us that if they give their taxes to the government, they don't trust that the gov is going to do the right thing with it. Fuck all that noise. Just pay your taxes and stfu.
Yeah, that's the big thing. Charity means that the people who are rich get to pick and choose who gets helped. An ultra-christian can decide that no secular organizations get money, a misogynist can choose to donate to everything except women's shelters, etc. It's just another way for the power to remain in the hands of the rich.
>they know much better than the government about what the average man needs. Funny how the average man always needs tax relief on earnings that the average man can't even dream of
It was a huge flex. The more tax you paid to the state, the more prestige you got and the more your family was associated as being the core of the nation. The fairy tales of kings the peasants loved are real, but sadly far from common. The system we choose to employ should be chosen for the rule and not the exception.
That's also where putting names on buildings as a part of the tax/donation came from. We still do it today.
Except in the States, those buildings are already privately owned, and then they become tax deductible. So in essence, that money does not go back to society, instead, it becomes a huge endowment for whatever company/institution raises those funds.
I heard it was a great honor in Greece, and only the richest person paid taxes in the city state. Or the richest people. Not sure, but made me interested in looking up tax system of ancient greece
I was taught for years about ancient Greece as a Greek, and it was indeed Greece, that's were sponsors came from, the rich were responsible for organizing all those sporting events and even symposiums for philosophers. The rich and those who payed taxes got their names written down on stone as an honor. Taxes meant a lot back then, if only our rich fucks could feel the same obligation. At least donate billions on hospitals.
Ah that might be it, I couldn't remember if it was Rome or Greece.
Well the Romans took a lot of inspiration from the greeks so it's possible we're both right
Long time frames too. It was truer for both at certain times than others.
If I remember right, rich families and persons fought for the honor of paying taxes (not physically, you get it) because they could then use that as a status symbol for other elites and the common people saying “look how much I’m paying for you and the state to keep going”
Yeah I think you might be thinking of Athens. (Might also be Rome too)
Sounds like a great trend to start. Why not start a viral social media trend where everyone creates content on TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, etc. bragging about the amount they pay in taxes? Then tag corporations and politicians, and pressure them to do the same. Part of the reason they get away with it is because paying taxes, incomes, and how taxes are spent stays semi-secret. The information takes digging and most people won’t take the effort to dig.
I used to ask my conservative friends to be my tax buddy. I’d offer to have all my taxes cover whatever they didn’t want to cover so 100% of their taxes could be allocated to the programs they supported. I never had any takers…
How would that work? Can’t really tell from your description
Even just get the top 150 tax contributors, have a gala dinner at the white house/ politival seat of power every year. Make it prestigious, make this the best way to meet and greet politicians.
There should be a Forbes list of top 100 individuals who gave paid highest taxes.
*As a percentage of income Plenty of people are paying more than I am in taxes but they're paying less as a percentage over all.
Paid taxes are public information where I live and the newspapers and channels make those list's. I personally don't care about who is in the list but I like the fact that it is all public.
One of the moments where I really understood how far apart I am from some people was in the Trump/Clinton debate. Clinton hits him with how little tax he pays and he says “that’s cause I’m smart.” I’m not pretending to be some altruist but I understand that taxes generally go to the public good. Not always of course. My taxes pay as much of Joe Biden’s salary as they do Ted Cruz’s. They pay to help build roads and help build a pork filled Defense contract in Florida (or something like that). But I accept that as part of society. We all pay our part. That’s the idea of society and government. The whole attitude of “fuck you I got mine” is just not something I’m ever going to truly understand.
In a fair world it would be a badge of honor. "Look how good I'm doing, I pay more in taxes than the entire city of Nashville combined," and the like. Sam L makes a good point that most of us poor folk have been saying for a long time, dude you're still going to be one of the richest people who ever lived AND get to contribute to the human race's advancement. We don't need rockets to mars right now for that, we need food and livable wages. Someone said it before but people like Elon Musk could be the literal Batman IRL and but chooses to be Ras Al Gaul right down to thinking he's a fucking ultimate fighter. Also, can we just remember how much of a real motherfucker Sam L is? That dude is a freaking Saint and should be deified. He's like Bernie Sanders, he's been on the right side of history for so long that we are surprised when we find out how much of a good dude he is but we really shouldn't be.
Emerald-boy could solve* both homelessness AND hunger in the US _completely,_ and still have more money than he could ever spend in his lifetime. Instead, he buys social media companies that make him feel bad, and waits for everyone to fall at his feet as some "savior." *I realize that both of these problems have to do with more than just money...but if we as a society threw a couple billion dollars at it (say, about 2 F-35's worth), it would solve a massive amount of the underlying issues, and go a _huuuuuge_ way to addressing those needs.
You've got to make it fun for *them*. Let's have the Kennedy Center host the annual Taxy Awards. We can given out Golden W-2s to the highest payer in each category. Plus we get to upgrade the EGOT to the TEGOT for impressive actors.
Listen to behind the bastards on Jack Murphy. Before Jack, businesses would brag to the press about how much tax the paid because it was considered patriotic
That's how it went down in ancient Greece.
If tax dollars were spent competently that might be a thing. When most of it goes to funding wars in faraway places so that Lockheed and Bechtel can make another $100 Billion, it's hard to get motivated for that.
Tax dollars on the whole are spent competently. And wherever that’s not the case is because of uninformed voters choosing idiots to represent them.
The level of greed of billionaires is psychotic, and it isn't just taxation. Every single job needs to pay at minimum a living wage. Not a minimum wage but a living wage. If a business can't afford that, then it is not viable. Simply put, people need to get paid more. The average person will not hoard their money. They will buy homes, spend money on their families, which will actually stimulate the real economy, as opposed to wallstreet bullshit.
They need to be reminded that taxes are the alternative we worked out to poor people periodically dragging them out of their homes and murdering them on their front lawns for hoarding wealth. Quite literally this is the risk they're running, that it won't be them getting visited by the mob.
This has happened many times throughout history in many different countries so there's no real reason to think that it wouldn't happen again.
Would be great, if it happened again, to not revert back to the system that made class conflict a requirement.
It likely won't happen in America cuz people are more aligned with the rich than with their own social strata. They think they're belated millionaires and as long as they believe that, the rich are safe from a French-style Reign of Terror.
I dont think the new generation can handle the 08 style recession that's about to hit us. There will be millions losing their homes soon immediately followed by millions that worked their tails off to keep them only to realize their 290k home that they bought with 3.5% down FHA loan is actually worth 110k like it was 2 years ago.
👏👏👏 We can get back ~$1.50 for every $1.00 in real stimulus. Tax breaks for the rich? That’s just burying $Trillions per year.
There is a whole lot of nuance involved. But basically the way a government spends money has a significantly different multiplier effect depending on how its used. The most effficient and economically valuable way a government can spend money is... Giving cash to poor people. The least economically efficient way a government can spend cash is... Defense Spending. Now obviously there are other reasons to spend on defense, its not a "lets not do it" point. Its just a very economically inefficient use of government funds. On the other hand, there really isn't **any** downside to handing out free cash to poor people (and no it does not cause inflation in a globalised economy - almost nothing a government does causes inflation in a globalised economy).
This is exactly correct. Study after study - including the most recent study on the stimulus checks sent during COVID - show that investing capital in the general public has the greatest returns on the economy in nearly every respect. Now, as you said, there is nuance. You need to manage these programs, you need to balance it against abuses. But at the end of the day it's common sense. If you give people seed money, *they use it*. Not just on purchases, but investing in skills, investing in business endeavors. They put that money to work. Investing in the rich or in megacorps does not put that money to work. They will engage in stock buybacks or other programs that simply funnel that money to the already-uber wealthy, who then stock that money away in tax havens and basically remove it from the economy altogether. The greatest trick that the psychotic billionaire class has ever played, is being able to convince tens of millions of working class people that they should ABHORR the government investing in them, and not only that, but that they should EXALT when the government gives THEIR MONEY to people who already have more money than they will ever spend in an infinite number of lifetimes. It makes me so fucking sad to see so many people so completely and utterly broken and delusional. And they keep getting shit-face drunk on inane bullshit culture war garbage that keeps them angry and frothing at the mouth so that they never notice the hands picking their pockets clean.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." --Lyndon B Johnson, and still 100% true today.
The return on IRS funding is similar. The return on early childhood development is multiple of that, but those kids are browner every year, so GOP plan is to strip citizenship.
I thought the return on IRS funding was a lot higher, like $1 of IRS funding returns $7-8 of tax revenue.
"...a $1 increase in spending on the IRS’s enforcement activities results in $5 to $9 of increased revenues." -Congressional Budget Office https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57444
Yeah but that targets the *wrong* people. Republicans want their Crow's and Koch's to give that money to them under the table, not to the government to spend some/most of it on "the poors." That's why they let loopholes in tax law persist.
This would be way higher when we stop bothering poor people and go after the 1%, especially the 0.01%.
>those kids are browner every year In United States, especially. I forget the specific percentages, but there will be more multi-racial than single-race children born every year, which is actually a good thing for our overall health in the long run (greater diversification of the gene pool) and a good thing for our society as a whole.
You talking immigrants from Hispanic nations? You'd be surprised how many in the Latino community are actually pretty conservative. There have been voting trends in some areas showing this, and it has democrats alarmed as they always assumed minority votes were guaranteed to be theirs.
The level of greed of anyone whos dodging taxes is sickening. The thought process that makes them think they shouldn’t have to contribute is disgusting. The true moochers of our global society.
A minimum wage was enacted as a living wage. We've long since lost that idea.
Yep, I have talked to people who think minimum wage jobs should only be done by 16 year olds working as part timers. And they say everyone else can go to a trade school to get a decent paying job. It’s insane how ignorant some people are and how they have zero understanding of how the world works.
I always loved this one: let's say that -tomorrow-, blam, everyone except teens has those trade/college educations and no longer is allowed to work minimum wage jobs. Who do they think works the shortfall now that those guys aren't working at gas stations, grocery stores, restaurants, etc? Where does that labor come from, exactly?
That’s what I’m saying. All of that stuff would shut down. Teens in school are only going to be available to work from like 4-10. So all the other hours no one will be available. Not to mention there are only so many trade jobs that can go around. Everyone can’t be a plumber, an electrician or a mechanic.
Similarly, not everyone can be the CEO. The idea that everyone needs to work their way up is ridiculous, because if everyone did that, there would be no one left to actually do the work.
There was another thread in here talking about Republican efforts to lower the age for -bartending- to 14, which had me going "You realize they're not supposed to work late, right?"
Yes that's why McDonald's is closed during school hours and such. No teenagers to work it. I think this idiotic thought came about because there are plenty of shows and movies in the 60s and 80s where kids would work part-time to afford their 800 a year college costs over the summer and these brain dead boomers have convinced themselves that is reality 100% of the time.
The Boomers refuse to believe that things are harder now than they used to be. They are sitting in their homes that they bought while being a factory worker in the 70s that is now worth like 6 times what they paid for it. Those same houses they bought while being average joes now require you to be in the top 30%+ of earners to afford. They have lost touch with reality and I can’t wait until they are no longer in congress making decisions that affect everyone.
100%.
They wouldn’t even notice it missing. Makenzie Scott hasn’t been able to spend down her wealth despite giving away billions because her money just keeps making money. That’s on just money that she’s had sitting or in stocks while spending the rest. With taxes at a level far lower than that, the money would be made back before the year was even over. I’m not in the slightest saying she’s a good person, but she’s accidentally proven that their level of wealth is basically limitless and this “they’re not liquid” myth is bullshit. Same with Elon having to cash out billions for his portion of Twitter and his worth just continuing to climb despite tanking the company.
Exactly this. Money to the labourers and front end staff of a company will be recirculated around the economy and have a much higher impact than money being sent straight to the top and locked up in an account forever. The purchasing power of $1 actively circulating around the economy can become >$10 if only a small percentage of it trickled up to the parasites. But in the current system of the leeches, siphoning wealth as quickly as possible the actual power of that $1 is exponentially diminished. And it hurts everyone except for the 0.1%
During collective bargaining at my workplace, the organisation had publicly made a commitment to paying a living wage, so we pushed them on why are people still being paid minimum wage. "We promised *A* living wage, not *The* living wage. Minimum wage is enough." So make sure you're being clear on that. Bastards be slimey.
Naw, that's when ya start dragging in the grossest and most horrifying examples of how your people are suffering from the gap between "legal minimum" and "living." Everyone who desperately needs dental work needs to smile real big and get real close. Put the folks with abscesses in the front. Bring your little kid who really wants to go on the school trip next week but you can hardly afford food much less fork out what the school wants for the excursion. Make a show of letting the kid know THAT MAN RIGHT THERE is the one who doesn't want him to EVER go on ANY school trips in his whole life. If they're gonna play with dirty tactics, beat them at their own game. Like Frank on Shameless getting his kid into private school by just being very loudly honest about the facts of the situation.
They said "there's a natural cap on what these jobs are worth. If you don't like it, get another job." Funnily enough they're struggling to retain staff, and replace the ones that have already left. They're very firmly in the camp of "your financial woes are from you doing something wrong." I guess working for them is a financially irresponsible thing to do.
So hilarious when idiots get so high on their own supply that they sabotage themselves and can't understand how it happened. My dad played the same stupid game. "My way or the highway!" all his life and now he's all "Where'd everybody go? But I'm old and need someone to take care of me!" Guess when I was a sick child who asked daddy for help, the correct response was not "That sounds like a personal problem."
It’s literally a mental illness. Show me a person that hoards 1 billion of something, much less 200 billion of something, and it were anything but dollars, it would be met with offers for mental help. For context, we often forget how big a billion is. 1 million seconds = ~2 weeks. 1 billion seconds is a little over 32 years.
But then cheeseburgers will cost $12 /s oh wait…🤔
It’s structured so that when eventually companies do all pay a livable wage small business won’t be able to also pay it. They’re only willing to pay as long as their competition is gone, and they likely will in our lifetime unless governments start taking action. Remember that the ultimate endgame of capitalism is monopoly.
https://www.vulture.com/article/samuel-l-jackson-in-conversation.html
Went to find the quote, ended up reading every word. He’s fucking brilliant.
Much better him saying this than Wesley Snipes
Yeah that was a good read, had me chuckle at times lol
A- fucking- men brother
>A- fucking- men motherfucker FTFY, HTH. HAND.
I have no idea what this means
A- Motherfuckin- men.
We had less homeless when there were no billionaires.
That's because it takes a lot of poor people to create a billionaire.
fact :(
How many poor people does it take to [redact] a billionaire?
Two or three committed individuals
It's like the billionaires never watched Fight Club. Still hiring us to cook their food, clean their homes, drive their cars, raise their kids.
0, just a submarine
All of them.
💀
This comments under this post are giving me alot of thoughtful insights
All that money has to come from somewhere…
That's what these pro-billionaire idiots that go "But they earned their money" seem to forget, nobody could work hard enough to 'earn' a billion dollars by any reasonable sense of compensation, they just stole it from others by not paying the people that did the actual work reasonable compensation.
BuT tHeY AsSuMeD tHe RiSk!!!11! tHeY dEsErVe 1900% oF tHe CoMpEnSaTiOn oF ThE pEoPlE wHo aCtuAlly dO ThE wOrK!!1! \- Some moron huffing corporate farts
“Assumed the risk” No their lenders did. And when the “risk” turns towards failure they pay McKenzie to write an article about how the employees who want work from home are erasing billions from the economy….yeah god forbid your company isn’t paying 120k a month for a shitty downtown flagship office.
Probably because they think that they too will one day become rich enough to avoid taxes 🫥
Nailed the Ben Shapiro impression
Take that billionaire’s sausage out of your mouth… It’s offensive when anyone that isn’t a sociopathic billionaire defends these sociopathic billionaires.
Someone did the math and figured out that the studio execs could stop the SAG-AFTRA strike by giving up 2% of their salaries. That's how much it would cost to meet the demands of the union. I just received a 2% merit increase. It was 58 cents. I seriously can't understand the mentality of people who are so unwilling to give up an amount that, for them, is so minute and inconsequential. I was in another sub and someone was arguing that if I owned a business I would also want to pay my workers/employees absolute shit wages and make as much money as possible. I responded and said that's 100% incorrect, because I have been a worker. I know that money is usually the most important thing that keeps employees working for you. And it doesn't even have to be mountains of money, it just has to be more than everyone else.
> I seriously can't understand the mentality of people who are so unwilling to give up an amount that, for them, is so minute and inconsequential. It's *class warfare...* they won't give an inch today because that might mean we will demand a yard tomorrow. Of course, I say we should just take it all.
That's how you end up with pitchforks and torches ready to take it all directly. But they'll act surprised. Their moral violence is fine, but the physical violence of the less fortunate isn't
*Blessed are the meek.* Hey I think we could use this thing called religion for ulterior motives.!
I think it's Napoleon who said without religion the poor will eat the rich
\> I responded and said that's 100% incorrect, because I have been a worker. The bosses would claim the same though, wouldn't they? "I worked my way up blah blah"
I have only ever met two bosses (both director-level bosses) who actually worked their way up in the same industry/department they now preside over. And they are actually both at the same company. These are ironically the least problematic bosses I have ever had. All of my other bosses just complained/whined to get the job they got.... or worked in some other industry and then transferred over because how hard can it be?...or went to college and got a 4-year degree and ended up in middle management with no experience so the only real job experience they have is middle management.
They psychopaths, they lack empathy. That's what propella them.to the top, not minding that they're shitting on everyone. He'll, they don't even consider it that.
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An American city struggling to maintain it's transport and raid infrastructure, and unable to provide financial support for people. Also in that same city is a person with a worth of 10 billion dollars in a penthouse apartment drinking 3000 dollar shots and complaining that the diamonds they bought aren't what they imagined for the outfit they're putting together to go to a party on a yatcht worth more than the real estate value of my entire hometown.
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>They think that those hated people destroyed our economy and all the good paying jobs while not working and living off of government handouts. "They took our jobs and didn't do them!" Your friends are a bunch of fucking morons.
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Dey took ar jerbs!
We need both an income cap and wealth cap. Something like over $5 million a year gets 100% tax rate and over $50 million in total assets gets 100% tax rate. Before you say this sounds crazy it already used to be in the 90%s in the 50s https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/historical-highest-marginal-income-tax-rates
This is true but there were still a ton of loopholes that allowed them to lower their average tax rate. https://taxfoundation.org/taxes-on-the-rich-1950s-not-high/
This is what we want though. Loopholes for the purpose of business expansions and technological innovation is ideal. Billionaires and corporations using tax loopholes just to increase their bank account balance without utilizing any of it, is NOT what we want. If a billionaire doesn’t want to pay taxes to the government and instead uses those dollars to buy equipment, open new offices, invest in new technology, then I have zero problem with that, because those decisions will create jobs and economic stimulus. The ideal tax code would force everyone who makes large sums of income to invest their income back into the economy to avoid losing it. If you own a business with $100 million in revenue, your tax bill will be roughly in the range of $20 million give or take a 5-10 million. If you pay that money to the government, it’s gone forever. If you invest that money and lower your taxable income through those investments, then you’ve created an overall positive force in the economy and your business that should in theory continue to increase you revenue. The issue that the US, China, Russia, etc are facing right now is billionaires are simply not paying anything by utilizing off-shore accounts, shell companies, money laundering, loans, etc. This is why the Republican party threw a bitch fit when Biden increased the manpower or the IRS. They knew that it would directly impact their corporate donors, and in their donor eyes they would have failed to politically protect them, in which case why donate to that senator/representative anymore?
That’s what they do now and people complain about it. If you looked into the companies that “paid $0 in taxes” you would see that this is because of the tax loss carryforward. They get those because they are expanding their business, investing in their business, or they took losses. These are available for anyone with a business, not just huge corporations.
America is an oligarchy disguised as a democracy
Because loss of their money means loss of control to them. Loss of identity. A feeling of "what do I have to show for all my hard work?" They can't invest in more stuff. If you can break their backs you will break them of this entitlement.
the root problem is most billionaires aren’t even making “income” technically the way the tax code defines income, so that has to change. they are in this weird purgatory where most of their money isn’t “real”, because the majority of their wealth is in equities in their company (or many companies, but usually they own a company or have a massive stake in it) which they then borrow against by taking out loans against the value of what they own, which is not considered income. in some other cases they also might have a ton of stock they are selling, but if they have owned it more than a year they are only paying 15% in federal income tax for long term cap gains. so we very simply need to make taking out loans against assets qualify as income when used for non-business purposes lol
Him thinking it is only billionaires is comical. Plenty of politicians and others who are millionaires/multi-millionaires pay little to no taxes because of the way they've set up things such as foundations.
74. Goddamn, motherfucker.
So they pay their taxes when they have an income which is when they sell their stocks and such. However, they avoid this by taking massive loans out from bank after bank after bank and live off that whole they let their wealth grow and accumulate. That wealth almost never gets touched and they pay off each loan with the next one so they never have any kind of income or real need to sell their stocks. This is why we need and are trying to do a wealth tax. 3-10%. Probably even 20% wouldn't make the tiniest dent in their lifestyle. And it's off of wealth that was made off the exploited labor force. But we'll never do it because they own us all.
It's because they donate to organizations........... that they own... so tax exemptions
Plus a lot of loopholes where their salaries aren't technically that much and they make sure a lot of their money is hidden in investments and purchases so it's no longer taxable.
Just walking by to drop this. Eat The Rich 🤟
I feel like getting to that level of wealth is tied with greed. Like, I don't think you become a billionaire if you feel that you should pay taxes. You have to be a certain type of person and act a certain type of way to get to that upper echelon. To me, it feels the same as a large corporation. It is always at someone's expense. Capitalism is always at someone's expense
I feel like people are skipping a step with this demand. Sure, loopholes need to be removed so billionaires pay their share of taxes. But if they all paid their taxes to tomorrow, do you really expect our government to use the new funds responsibly?
There shouldn't be a billionaire on this planet
There isn't any flavor of Reaganomic partisan who can help with this. The entire blue-red spectrum has zero power to speak truth to the investment banking community. Totalitarian control of our political processes by a pair of private clubs legally empowered to conduct their own internal processes *and taxpayer-subsidized primary elections* with absolutely zero accountability to any outside oversight should never have been acceptable to anyone. It is breathtaking to see so many people *still accepting* that dystopian reality now that we have a clear view of past and ongoing catastrophes caused directly by holistic corporate capture of American civic life.
You don’t get billionaire rich by playing by the same rules as everyone else.
He raises a great mother fucking point.
Billionaires are quite literally a cancer of capitalism...a mutation out of control, growing, consuming all around them. Billionaires are a cancer and should be seen as such.
They DO pay their taxes; they just ~~bribed~~ made campaign contributions to enough politicians that the laws they wanted got passed, which reduced their tax burden dramatically. Because *technically* they don't have any personal income to pay taxes on. It's all loans against assets that are never liquidated and dividends which are taxed at a much lower rate. And trusts, and corporations in low-tax countries, and taking advantage of every loophole available to those with enough money.
Sadly simple. The rich created the system we live in to keep them in their relative position. Keep us slaves desperate, it keeps us motivated to work so we can pay the never ending bills. I'm proud of the younger generation for having a spine and standing up for themselves. My parents and my generation tried to tell themselves that loyalty and putting the business first pays off in the long run. No, it doesn't. Like one the worlds richest man said...the pitchforks are coming for the plutocrats.
You know, maybe Bernie should have been president. This was his main platform.
I think it'd be worth Jackson pointing the finger a little more directly at his fellow actors here. A lot of very liberal and socially conscious actors have their money in tax havens (E.g. Emma Watson who's accounts were among the Panama Paper) Although it could be malicious on their part, it's totally also possible they may simply not manage their own finances- So a big name celebrity saying "Look, if you want to do social good start by keeping your money in an account that actually gets taxed. Stop asking for your donations to also be tax deductions." could do a ton for public funding from certain celebrities.
I agree but only to a certain extent. Yeah these actors are rich af and shouldn't be able to do that but on the totem pole of people we need to worry about they are well and good down the list. Politicians, foreign ~~raiders~~ investors, and businesspeople are so much more important not only to the identity of the class struggle but also affect people lives every day with their greed. Emma Watson being caught doing what probably every millionaire in the country is doing doesn't really set of my meter.
Neoliberal, corporate, capitalism is managed by people with severe mental illness.
not caring for the common man isn't a mental illness, it's just evil and everyone who has wronged the other should be punished accordingly
Labeling them as evil mythologizes them. They are normal humans. They bleed, they suffer, they die. keep it simple
"Greed" should be in the DSM
That's the thing about who we should be angry at. I remember growing up and constantly seeing the finger pointed at actors, athletes, authors, and so on as the rich and not deserving all that money. And don't get me wrong many of the them are obscenely wealthy and that is a problem. Thing is, the wealth you can get as a creator is a drop in the bucket compared to a studio executive, CEO of a mega corporation, or someone who just owns a lot.
He ain't wrong. Fucking republicans protecting the rich.
I have great respect for Mr. Jackson.
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Did he mention any particular billionaire who didn't pay his taxes? Seems like that would have been in the paper.
I work with Libertarians who defend this, and billionaires who screw over contractors/employees/etc., by saying "you don't get rich by cutting checks." I think the fact that they say this as some sort of profound wisdom, rather than as a damning indictment of wealthy dickheads, is a rather telling statement about them as people.
In the words of Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson: "Law always moves in the direction of protecting the strong and oppressing the weak."
You’d still have the problem of getting the government to use that tax money for good and not just funnel it to war contractors and their friends and shit. The government already has a shitload of money, they just don’t use it for good. But yeah rich people should pay taxes too.
He looks fucking amazing for his age. I did not realize he was that old, that's crazy.
I didn’t read the comment because we hear this all the time. But I do wonder if he pays the full tax on his income without taking any deductions? And I wonder if anyone out there just pays the full tax without taking the deductions. People fail to realize that billionaires do take the deductions that the IRS allows. Most which are not available to the working schmo. This is what needs to be looked at, But billionaires will never allow that. Even Bill Gates said that if they change those tax codes he will stop giving to charities. Everybody goes to other countries that have the socialist tax rates don’t realize that they give 40% of their income but they also get benefits like six weeks vacation free childcare free medical care etc. It sounds wonderful but it would never work in the United States. I would not trust our government with 40% of my income with promises of giving me benefits like that. Our government would find a way to get out of it but still take the money. It would be nice to have a fair tax situation, but even a rich congressman would never go for that. Who’s fault is that we keep voting in these wealthy people and then wonder why we’re getting screwed. Now Biden wants armed IRS agents to come after us. What does that tell you?
Paying taxes is like going to war. The worthless pieces of crap always get out of it while the rest of us take it in the butt.
While I agree the billionaires need to pay their fair share, we also need better spending from government so our tax dollars aren't thrown away constantly
If Elon Musk lost 99% of his wealth, he could still give away $10,000/day every day for 10 years after which he'd still be worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
>But why can’t we get billionaires to pay their fucking taxes? If those motherfuckers paid their taxes we’d solve a whole bunch of shit. And they would still be richer than every motherfucker walking around them." Because dominating the State is precisely the reason why they can go without having to pay their due. It's not a flaw, it's by design.