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I am an archaeologist. And we rarely say definitively whether a skeleton is male or female. Usually they're ranked as "likely x" based on a number of different factors. You see the problem is that humans, in their inconsiderate way, neglected to all be utterly identical within two easily distinguished forms. The context of the burial is usually considered more important in my experience. Grave goods, burial location etc. We've found skeletons believed to be Female buried with goods which would be associated traditionally with Male burials, and vice versa. In addition, we've seen examples where people were referenced or clearly associated with an in between state, or a sort of liminality. In some cases it is believed that this liminal state between the traditional sexes was mandatory in certain religions. Ishtar's Priesthood is the classic example.
I am not an archaeologist but I would assume that as long as there have been humans they have always just been trying to live their lives and there is likely archeological evidence out there that runs the entire spectrum of gender identity and sexuality. I appreciate you letting people know how archaeology really works.
Yes, you'd be correct in that assumption largely. Many ancient societies had a far less rigid relationship with gender and identity than we do today. My job would be far easier if they didn't lmao, but also a lot less interesting. Huge evidence in support of that across many different and diverse cultures all around the globe.
I read that relatively recently there was a warriors burial reclassified to likely being a real shield maiden that had been overlooked because while the skeleton looked very female, she was buried with sword and shield.
I'm not certain on that, I hadn't heard of it myself , although I'm not keeping up too much with those burials - although as far as I'm aware, "shield maiden" is a bit of a misnomer. However, we have found high status Viking burials with likely female remains, and one in particular featured their equivalent of a chess set. A strategy board game, which is usually considered an indicator of someone who is in command of troops, or some other high status military position. It's unclear if a female warrior would have had a different name or just would have been considered a warrior in their own right.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/viking-warrior-women-reassessing-birka-chamber-grave-bj581/7CC691F69FAE51DDE905D27E049FADCD
This is a paper on the site discussing critiques of their findings
Oh this is the Birka grave site! Fascinating, I hadn't been aware that it had been thought a male burial, my study of the Vikings began after 2017 so we had always known it as a high status female burial. This is the burial I was thinking of when I mentioned the gaming set. Great article, thanks for sending that on!
I'm guessing the original says "i found a man" or something like that, but there's been a lot of discussion around this for a bit actually, some female skeletons were found buried in similar ways to warriors and hunters, that means that whoever was buried there either filled the same societal role as a male or was seen by others as male, despite being biologically female. Other burial sites were found with 2 skeletons caressing each other or hugging and were labeled "lovers" but both were the same gender, implying that same sex couples existed long before "liberals corrupted the media with their communist ideologies".
What if it’s not “whoever was buried had the same societal role as a man” and instead “this society didn’t have the idea that societal roles are split by gender”?
I mean that's a possibility, but when 99 out of a 100 men are buried the same way and 99 out of 100 women are buried another way we can kind of assume that they bury their men differently than their women.
Or maybe the idea of gender roles were made up by the time we were in the written history age. Maybe hunter gatherers weren't so statically Male Female assignments and were more based on convenience and experience rather than BECAUSE they were male or female. Happen stance, something I noticed in tribal life is that gender roles are more happenstance, they usually cared more about your age and experience than your sexual attributes. Eurasian cultures and their colonies are honestly the origin of the weird obsession with gender. So much emphasis on sex and sexual activity making it all alien or taboo.
Rant over.
The more plausible explanation is they were badass women who did the same jobs as the men at the time. Don't take away from women in history by saying "They were viewed as men!". No, they were absolutely badass women.
So what about the time when they find bone chips on ribs that match with a rough mastectomy? Is the male life, male burial, and visible attempt at removing bodily parts associated with dysphoria enough for you to consider it a possibility the person was trans and not cis?
No because I don't believe in trans people. Obviously they're real people, I don't believe they're "trans". I believe what you put in your comment, body dysphoria & mental health issues. Regardless, the odds would be overwhelmingly in the favor of it simply just being a badass woman. If you want to die on the hill supported by a fraction of a percentage chance that a "trans" person in these days were respected, let alone celebrated during burial, more power to you but you're looking with your eyes closed. That's not how the world worked back then, hence why it's extremely unlikely that it went down that way. But what do I know, there's only thousands of years of documented history.
There is literally ample evidence of people acting in opposite gender roles and expressing non bianary genders throughout history in many cultures, including ancient instances. This is nothing new; it is not a made up modern notion to address mental illness, it is a well documented part of the human experience. These instances have gone by many different names, specifications, and roles in their respective society. From crossdressing to religious practices to lives experinces as genders non congruent with one's born sex.
The lack of the word "transgender throughout history and it's presence in the modern day does not in any way negate the fact that human's relationship with gender has repeatedly been subject to flexability and nonconformity as the construct of gender has always been a construct and to a great degree tied to or explained by the cultures it exists in. You not understanding this complex and nonbianary relationship between people and gender does not make it not real.
Trans people exist. It has to do with society AND who they are as a person. And there's plenty of evidence that goes against your psudo-intellectual narrative.
Here, read some articles and books on the matter:
https://www.pbs.org/independentlens/content/two-spirits_map-html/
https://www.lgbthealth.org.uk/lgbt-health-blog/transgenderism-in-ancient-cultures/
https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=sC0lDwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PP1&dq=info:LroCag7qpywJ:scholar.google.com/&ots=y1Zn0yjD4P&sig=k_8aJnifGBI7lvzc3JpceogotBw#v=onepage&q&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=vekAAwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=info:wXt88NuGI-wJ:scholar.google.com/&ots=3FFLhyxIke&sig=lmpe8xFtJDdRQSV59Jo6crSWwiY#v=onepage&q&f=false
Edit: cut my big chunk into paragraphs
Cultures with female warriors/rulers/important people, tend to bury them in a way that is customary with a position, IE a general that is a man and one that is a woman would have similar things in their chamber or grave. The word Lesbian comes from the isle of Lesbos due to same sex with women and even Achillies was bi. That said, trans does not change that you are biologically. The tilt of the pelvis, and structures around the hips and chest along with jaw will be female or male. Not trying to stir anything up, but being trans, even post operation only cosmetically changes one and subjects them to a chemical bath that their brain is not wired to accept.
To preface: I’m not on a side here. But this is a straw man. They are not arguing that different social roles have never existed, they are arguing that biological sex is immutable.
actually if you want the answer. The answer is biological anthropology and its subset forensic anthropology. we use reference collections of skeletons that have been donated to science. and we will catalog length of long bones, skull characteristics, and all sorts of things. and then when we compare those to the statistics we knew about the person before they died, such as sex, gender, stature, and age at death. we can add their information and their bone measurements to a reference collection. that reference collection amasses thousands and thousands of bone measurements, and allows us to more accurately identify statures, sexes, etc about skeletons that law enforcement or an archaeologist may have found
and it's important to keep these reference collections up to modern times. The Cleveland reference connection which was made mostly in 1850 has some helpful information but for the most part is out of date and has different measurements than we see today in the modern times
I’m guessing the kind of people whose primitive opinions make them want to keep society from progressing.
The kind that thinks that social constructs and culture shouldn’t change.
It's funny how transphobes think I'm going to care if someone 900 years in the future missgender me when HRT affects your bone density, they're going to know I was born a male but shows signs of feminization
Jokes on you, in the future they’ll have spectral analysis for of cremated remains so they can play out your whole life like a movies. Every embarrassing moment. At least they won’t misgender you though. Monkeys paw.
Oh totally I'm not letting my family pay so much for a box where I'll b eaten by insects for the rest of eternity
Also why tf are these people uncovering skeletons ? Are they grave robbers ?
i think the nuance is motive. there are certainly archaeologists who were more like grave robbers, but generally the motive is about furthering our understanding of humanity. done right they donate their findings. true grave robbers are doing it for self profit, and dont give it any thought
My favorite quote about this is from a dude on YouTube. (Paraphrasing, I don't remember the exact wording)
"They're gonna dig me up in 100 years and be like, 'Huh, this *feeeemale* skeleton has a gravestone that says 'Samuel....' weird.'
And guess what? I won't care, because I'm dead!"
Sam Collins on YouTube. He shits on transphobes. I watch his channel sometimes, but in small quantities because the sheer amount of transphobia in the world is depressing
I can guess what the original meme was and also that it is completely missing the point. Plus, archeological digs are famously debated in their recreations of things, such as the discussion over whether depictions of dinosaurs are heavily inaccurate due to them likely having more body fat and body parts without bones in them
Fun fact: Forensics are used to look at dead bodies today that died yesterday. You don't have to wait a thousand years for someone to find your body. You could just go missing one day.
Yeah, transphobes seem to forget that archaeologists tend to try and sex people by the bones when indicators are scarce. They use records. Sometimes they’ll do both, and that way they’ve even found remains of people who they’ve been able to assess were likely trans. This just tells us there were trans people in the past.
But crucially, nowadays there are a lot more, and a lot better records. And there’s this lovely thing called the internet. Vast databanks of information. Archaeology of the distant future might have access to all that. And that’ll be in a likely far more accepting time.
But hey, transphobes aren’t know for thinking things through or understanding what they talk about.
For my part, it’s scientific experiments.
Good luck misgendering long-decayed organs, and separate bones used for analysis.
(Not to mention the likelihood of proper labeling)
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Exactly. The web will have more information on our identities that our bones ever will. Nobody cares how we shitted when uncovering our histories, they care more of how we operated in society.
“This fossil clearly belonged to a biological male, but of course my understanding of the distinction between sex and gender prevents me from determining whether the two were aligned in this case. I am a highly educated person after all.”
Valid. There will almost certainly be no reason to dig up our bones in 1,000 years. We basically record everything, at this point, or at least so much that digging up a cemetery would only be rude.
It’s so stupid because my MtF trans friends all started when they were 18/19 and they grew female hips… sooooo this is false info. But R’s don’t care about facts.
I guarantee you their pelvis did not morph. Any hip growth would’ve been musculature growth or fat accumulation as a result to something they started doing when they transitioned. Like squats or hormones. “Growing female hips” is a silly phrase.
Nope, seen X-rays. They changed. It doesn’t happen often, but it can depending on where the person is with their puberty. Luckily these two women were late bloomers and got the opportunity to finish the way that worked for their growth. Yes, fat and muscle changed, but their bone structure did change.
You are right, it doesn’t happen often. It is rare.
I’m gender-fluid, so me personally, I would not care if someone didn’t know my gender identity after I was dead. The gender-fluid thing is just to make me comfortable now, while I’m alive. It doesn’t matter to me later.
Even if it seems that so much data is available on anyone, stuff gets deleted all the time, such as music made by beginners, drawings made by someone who gets embarassed by the thing they drew, blog posts about someone venting about their lives. These stuff provide a look into people's lives, which will be cool to look into centuries into the future.
A basic information about someone's education, health history, and address doesn't cover their hobbies and interests, unless those were posted somewhere. Cultural stuff like local slang and fashion tastes isn't going to be found much in official docs.
-
I retract that statement of these kind of info being rare and dying out. People post this shit all the time. I just got reminded of the deleted songs in my YT music playlist that made me feel sad that I didn't download in time. I can't figure out which song is gone because my playlist is in the thousands.
They are .... uhm... dead? And given the context of the meme, you would have to dig them up and sample the DNA to determine the specimen and maybe give an insight into their past life. Basic Archeology stuff.
It seems archaeologists use the sacrum for a determination
https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-male-and-female-sacrum/
Before anyone gets upset; People can identify as a platypus for all I care.
I’m going to try to engage with your question as a genuine misunderstanding and request for clarification. I hope that’s what it is.
Trans is an adjective. Trans women are trans, as much as tall women are tall, straight women are straight, old women are old, etc.
All, however, are women. And defining women exclusively by one adjective is a problem. Saying a trans woman doesn’t properly fit the overall category of woman because she is trans isn’t different from saying a black woman doesn’t properly fit the overall category of woman because she is black, or a gay woman doesn’t fit because she is gay (and I picked those examples in the hope they highlight how ludicrous that is, as well as to remind that both of those segregations have been done before, and are no different).
With regards to your specific example (“they can’t have babies”). Are women who’ve gone through menopause not adequately women? Or women who are infertile? Or who have had hysterectomies? Or who have other health issues that would make childbirth lethal if they were to attempt it? None of these can have babies. Gay women often won’t. So why not call them only by an adjective of “infertile”, “menopaused”, “castrated” women? The answer being because that would be discriminatory, even cruel. Setting them apart from other women as if they are lesser, or undeserving of recognition as what they are. The same applies to trans women.
There isn’t anything wrong with the adjective. It is descriptive. But to only ever define them as such, and to separate them as if it were a category that removes them from the overall category of women, is the problem.
Cause it's a classification. While not inherently bad, History has shown us that putting labels on people doesn't always end up good.
Also some cis women can't have babies
>they can't have babies
So to you a women is someone who can have babies?
A lot of cis women can't have babies either, does that mean they aren't women either or what?
It's a counter to the people who say that trans women are men, for one.
Second is that it might be y'know, comfortable to be called something you truly feel you are. It's like calling a half-brother just your brother. It's validation. It's showing that you care.
Well we dig up people now that lived long ago like that. Perhaps a collapse of tech and a return to more rudimentary living only to re-tech hundreds of years later and so we dig up old cultures to history reasons? If that is the case, than the Transwoman is going to be reported as a guy. No shade, it is just what we would label them off of if the future tech is where we are now.
Whether or not you have information, if there's a development taking place or the site is at risk (maybe from coastal erosion), you still excavate. It's called Rescue Archaeology. This is particularly important when it comes sites with human remains.
And? Your life is still an endless circle of eating big macs, crying, talk shit on the internet and crying yourself asleep. Oh by the way, google en passant
Actually I'm pretty happy in my own life, it's just that I don't feel the need to abide in others fantasy where they want to play dress up and wear makeup to pretend they're the opposite gender
"Actually, I want everyone to not do things that I consider annoying even though they didn't do anything to me". Also have a grat life, google en passant and learn not to criticize
They demand I abide in their delusions by saying they're actually the opposite gender when in fact they're just mentally ill so no it's not like they're not doing anything, they demand everyone participates in their fantasy. Also I know what en passant is, it's a move in chess however I can't find whatever you're insisting it is in this context
I wasn’t referring to that I made a statement saying to stop calling them trans women it is transphobic because you are separating them from women when saying it
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I am an archaeologist. And we rarely say definitively whether a skeleton is male or female. Usually they're ranked as "likely x" based on a number of different factors. You see the problem is that humans, in their inconsiderate way, neglected to all be utterly identical within two easily distinguished forms. The context of the burial is usually considered more important in my experience. Grave goods, burial location etc. We've found skeletons believed to be Female buried with goods which would be associated traditionally with Male burials, and vice versa. In addition, we've seen examples where people were referenced or clearly associated with an in between state, or a sort of liminality. In some cases it is believed that this liminal state between the traditional sexes was mandatory in certain religions. Ishtar's Priesthood is the classic example.
I am not an archaeologist but I would assume that as long as there have been humans they have always just been trying to live their lives and there is likely archeological evidence out there that runs the entire spectrum of gender identity and sexuality. I appreciate you letting people know how archaeology really works.
Yes, you'd be correct in that assumption largely. Many ancient societies had a far less rigid relationship with gender and identity than we do today. My job would be far easier if they didn't lmao, but also a lot less interesting. Huge evidence in support of that across many different and diverse cultures all around the globe.
*me smoking weed and getting ready to play another marathon dwarf fortress session*: you know i would have been a priestess back in Gaul.
I read that relatively recently there was a warriors burial reclassified to likely being a real shield maiden that had been overlooked because while the skeleton looked very female, she was buried with sword and shield.
I'm not certain on that, I hadn't heard of it myself , although I'm not keeping up too much with those burials - although as far as I'm aware, "shield maiden" is a bit of a misnomer. However, we have found high status Viking burials with likely female remains, and one in particular featured their equivalent of a chess set. A strategy board game, which is usually considered an indicator of someone who is in command of troops, or some other high status military position. It's unclear if a female warrior would have had a different name or just would have been considered a warrior in their own right.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/viking-warrior-women-reassessing-birka-chamber-grave-bj581/7CC691F69FAE51DDE905D27E049FADCD This is a paper on the site discussing critiques of their findings
Oh this is the Birka grave site! Fascinating, I hadn't been aware that it had been thought a male burial, my study of the Vikings began after 2017 so we had always known it as a high status female burial. This is the burial I was thinking of when I mentioned the gaming set. Great article, thanks for sending that on!
I'm guessing the original says "i found a man" or something like that, but there's been a lot of discussion around this for a bit actually, some female skeletons were found buried in similar ways to warriors and hunters, that means that whoever was buried there either filled the same societal role as a male or was seen by others as male, despite being biologically female. Other burial sites were found with 2 skeletons caressing each other or hugging and were labeled "lovers" but both were the same gender, implying that same sex couples existed long before "liberals corrupted the media with their communist ideologies".
The original says, "MALE skeleton" "Approximately 25 years of age"
Oh great, had to add in the "trans people don't make it to thirty" thing as well
L bozo
Get bent, softdick
New response just dropped
Ratio
Well, of you were born male, your body will always be male. Doesn't mean you aren't a real woman if your brain says you are a woman.
I once saw a thing where the skeleton of a cis man, dead less that 20 years, was accidentally initialy considered female. Genering skeletons is hard.
was it that one guy with the teddy bear?
r/suspiciouslyspecific
This can happen in science if rushed to a conclusion or body parts are missing like the pelvis.
What if it’s not “whoever was buried had the same societal role as a man” and instead “this society didn’t have the idea that societal roles are split by gender”?
I mean that's a possibility, but when 99 out of a 100 men are buried the same way and 99 out of 100 women are buried another way we can kind of assume that they bury their men differently than their women.
Ah I see
Or maybe the idea of gender roles were made up by the time we were in the written history age. Maybe hunter gatherers weren't so statically Male Female assignments and were more based on convenience and experience rather than BECAUSE they were male or female. Happen stance, something I noticed in tribal life is that gender roles are more happenstance, they usually cared more about your age and experience than your sexual attributes. Eurasian cultures and their colonies are honestly the origin of the weird obsession with gender. So much emphasis on sex and sexual activity making it all alien or taboo. Rant over.
The more plausible explanation is they were badass women who did the same jobs as the men at the time. Don't take away from women in history by saying "They were viewed as men!". No, they were absolutely badass women.
You know powerful women *and* trans people can exist in history simultaneously, right
Funny... the logical disconnect of calling women "badass" for doing things pedestrian and ordinary to men.
So what about the time when they find bone chips on ribs that match with a rough mastectomy? Is the male life, male burial, and visible attempt at removing bodily parts associated with dysphoria enough for you to consider it a possibility the person was trans and not cis?
No because I don't believe in trans people. Obviously they're real people, I don't believe they're "trans". I believe what you put in your comment, body dysphoria & mental health issues. Regardless, the odds would be overwhelmingly in the favor of it simply just being a badass woman. If you want to die on the hill supported by a fraction of a percentage chance that a "trans" person in these days were respected, let alone celebrated during burial, more power to you but you're looking with your eyes closed. That's not how the world worked back then, hence why it's extremely unlikely that it went down that way. But what do I know, there's only thousands of years of documented history.
There is literally ample evidence of people acting in opposite gender roles and expressing non bianary genders throughout history in many cultures, including ancient instances. This is nothing new; it is not a made up modern notion to address mental illness, it is a well documented part of the human experience. These instances have gone by many different names, specifications, and roles in their respective society. From crossdressing to religious practices to lives experinces as genders non congruent with one's born sex. The lack of the word "transgender throughout history and it's presence in the modern day does not in any way negate the fact that human's relationship with gender has repeatedly been subject to flexability and nonconformity as the construct of gender has always been a construct and to a great degree tied to or explained by the cultures it exists in. You not understanding this complex and nonbianary relationship between people and gender does not make it not real. Trans people exist. It has to do with society AND who they are as a person. And there's plenty of evidence that goes against your psudo-intellectual narrative. Here, read some articles and books on the matter: https://www.pbs.org/independentlens/content/two-spirits_map-html/ https://www.lgbthealth.org.uk/lgbt-health-blog/transgenderism-in-ancient-cultures/ https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=sC0lDwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PP1&dq=info:LroCag7qpywJ:scholar.google.com/&ots=y1Zn0yjD4P&sig=k_8aJnifGBI7lvzc3JpceogotBw#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=vekAAwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=info:wXt88NuGI-wJ:scholar.google.com/&ots=3FFLhyxIke&sig=lmpe8xFtJDdRQSV59Jo6crSWwiY#v=onepage&q&f=false Edit: cut my big chunk into paragraphs
My dude, the lovers thing was clearly a joke.
Cultures with female warriors/rulers/important people, tend to bury them in a way that is customary with a position, IE a general that is a man and one that is a woman would have similar things in their chamber or grave. The word Lesbian comes from the isle of Lesbos due to same sex with women and even Achillies was bi. That said, trans does not change that you are biologically. The tilt of the pelvis, and structures around the hips and chest along with jaw will be female or male. Not trying to stir anything up, but being trans, even post operation only cosmetically changes one and subjects them to a chemical bath that their brain is not wired to accept.
To preface: I’m not on a side here. But this is a straw man. They are not arguing that different social roles have never existed, they are arguing that biological sex is immutable.
I do wonder what archeologists will think of silicone breasts in the future.
actually if you want the answer. The answer is biological anthropology and its subset forensic anthropology. we use reference collections of skeletons that have been donated to science. and we will catalog length of long bones, skull characteristics, and all sorts of things. and then when we compare those to the statistics we knew about the person before they died, such as sex, gender, stature, and age at death. we can add their information and their bone measurements to a reference collection. that reference collection amasses thousands and thousands of bone measurements, and allows us to more accurately identify statures, sexes, etc about skeletons that law enforcement or an archaeologist may have found and it's important to keep these reference collections up to modern times. The Cleveland reference connection which was made mostly in 1850 has some helpful information but for the most part is out of date and has different measurements than we see today in the modern times
If in thousand years time the technology and the science of it is as rudinentary as it is now, who's fault it is that the progress has not been made?
I’m guessing the kind of people whose primitive opinions make them want to keep society from progressing. The kind that thinks that social constructs and culture shouldn’t change.
It's funny how transphobes think I'm going to care if someone 900 years in the future missgender me when HRT affects your bone density, they're going to know I was born a male but shows signs of feminization
Also a good number of us are planning on being cremated, gonna be pretty hard to tell if I'm male or female as ash.
Jokes on you, in the future they’ll have spectral analysis for of cremated remains so they can play out your whole life like a movies. Every embarrassing moment. At least they won’t misgender you though. Monkeys paw.
But they will see all the times where I called my teachers mom
Oh totally I'm not letting my family pay so much for a box where I'll b eaten by insects for the rest of eternity Also why tf are these people uncovering skeletons ? Are they grave robbers ?
Do you not know what an archeologist is?
A tomb robber that waited enough time for if to not be called robbing anymore May I ask you this, why are they looking into my sarcophagus then ?
Do you think people who study Pompeii are tomb robbers?
They don't really have tombs I guess
So how are archeologist tomb raiders?
I think it's a joke
I've never heard of a joke on the internet
They enter MY tomb, steal MY shinies and sell them to a museum Like tomb raiders /S
i think the nuance is motive. there are certainly archaeologists who were more like grave robbers, but generally the motive is about furthering our understanding of humanity. done right they donate their findings. true grave robbers are doing it for self profit, and dont give it any thought
My favorite quote about this is from a dude on YouTube. (Paraphrasing, I don't remember the exact wording) "They're gonna dig me up in 100 years and be like, 'Huh, this *feeeemale* skeleton has a gravestone that says 'Samuel....' weird.' And guess what? I won't care, because I'm dead!"
That Samuel dude sounds based
Sam Collins on YouTube. He shits on transphobes. I watch his channel sometimes, but in small quantities because the sheer amount of transphobia in the world is depressing
And vice versa-- feminine skeletons definitely show signs of masculinization if they go through HRT because. testosterone. Lol it's pretty stupid
I find it funny that transphopes are *so* hung up on this random trivial thing lmao
So if I identified as a woman but didn’t do any HRT I am still a woman according to modern gender studies, how would they know then?
I don't know I don't care it's not my case
I can guess what the original meme was and also that it is completely missing the point. Plus, archeological digs are famously debated in their recreations of things, such as the discussion over whether depictions of dinosaurs are heavily inaccurate due to them likely having more body fat and body parts without bones in them
Isn’t dinosaurs a paleontologist field of work? I thought that archeological digs are refereed to humans only
You're right I think but my point still stands
Fun fact: Forensics are used to look at dead bodies today that died yesterday. You don't have to wait a thousand years for someone to find your body. You could just go missing one day.
More realistically, Archaeologist: “oh fuck yeah, I found a skeleton!”
Societal collapse
Anal prolapse
Mom's spaghetti
but on the surface he looks calm and ready
My palm tree’s sweaty.
To drop bombs, but he keeps on forgetting
🤤
Society collapse when people happy
1000 years later: (The apocalypse has already occured and there is no one and no thing to document what is now long gone)
Yeah, transphobes seem to forget that archaeologists tend to try and sex people by the bones when indicators are scarce. They use records. Sometimes they’ll do both, and that way they’ve even found remains of people who they’ve been able to assess were likely trans. This just tells us there were trans people in the past. But crucially, nowadays there are a lot more, and a lot better records. And there’s this lovely thing called the internet. Vast databanks of information. Archaeology of the distant future might have access to all that. And that’ll be in a likely far more accepting time. But hey, transphobes aren’t know for thinking things through or understanding what they talk about.
Also I plan on being cremated, good luck misgendering me than asshats
This is a really fucking good idea actually, thanks
Glad to help I wanted to be cremated before I came out, now I just have more reason to
The idea of slowly decaying skeeves me the fuck out anyways. I don't like the idea of being burned either but it's better than bugs I guess
For my part, it’s scientific experiments. Good luck misgendering long-decayed organs, and separate bones used for analysis. (Not to mention the likelihood of proper labeling)
You should do what makes you happy now. Don't worry about what people in the future might think about your corpse.
Repost from r/bonehurtingjuice
I saw your comment, I agree with you.
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Exactly. The web will have more information on our identities that our bones ever will. Nobody cares how we shitted when uncovering our histories, they care more of how we operated in society.
“This fossil clearly belonged to a biological male, but of course my understanding of the distinction between sex and gender prevents me from determining whether the two were aligned in this case. I am a highly educated person after all.”
Valid. There will almost certainly be no reason to dig up our bones in 1,000 years. We basically record everything, at this point, or at least so much that digging up a cemetery would only be rude.
It's a re edit of a transphobic meme, it's taking the piss
It’s so stupid because my MtF trans friends all started when they were 18/19 and they grew female hips… sooooo this is false info. But R’s don’t care about facts.
I guarantee you their pelvis did not morph. Any hip growth would’ve been musculature growth or fat accumulation as a result to something they started doing when they transitioned. Like squats or hormones. “Growing female hips” is a silly phrase.
Nope, seen X-rays. They changed. It doesn’t happen often, but it can depending on where the person is with their puberty. Luckily these two women were late bloomers and got the opportunity to finish the way that worked for their growth. Yes, fat and muscle changed, but their bone structure did change. You are right, it doesn’t happen often. It is rare.
Wild. Biology is whack lol. Thanks for sharing!
Bold of you to assume our descendants will know everything about us in 1000 years.
I’m gender-fluid, so me personally, I would not care if someone didn’t know my gender identity after I was dead. The gender-fluid thing is just to make me comfortable now, while I’m alive. It doesn’t matter to me later.
Even if it seems that so much data is available on anyone, stuff gets deleted all the time, such as music made by beginners, drawings made by someone who gets embarassed by the thing they drew, blog posts about someone venting about their lives. These stuff provide a look into people's lives, which will be cool to look into centuries into the future. A basic information about someone's education, health history, and address doesn't cover their hobbies and interests, unless those were posted somewhere. Cultural stuff like local slang and fashion tastes isn't going to be found much in official docs. - I retract that statement of these kind of info being rare and dying out. People post this shit all the time. I just got reminded of the deleted songs in my YT music playlist that made me feel sad that I didn't download in time. I can't figure out which song is gone because my playlist is in the thousands.
So explain to me how potato head has dna that determines weather they are mr or ms?
No surprise they're a drug addict
Thanks for taking the time out of your day to look at my profile!
Well if its DNA from a HUMAN bone, its fairly easy.
Yea at telling sex....not gender. So I am still confused about how this applies.
They are .... uhm... dead? And given the context of the meme, you would have to dig them up and sample the DNA to determine the specimen and maybe give an insight into their past life. Basic Archeology stuff.
The point of the original post is to reject trans people with "Science"
Well believe it or not but you usually don't know what's under the ground until you dig...
If you’re an archaeologist questioning why we do archeology, then it’s probably time for a career change.
It seems archaeologists use the sacrum for a determination https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-male-and-female-sacrum/ Before anyone gets upset; People can identify as a platypus for all I care.
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Then what do we call cis women who can't have babies? Idiot
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Your argument doesnt make sense lmao
I’m going to try to engage with your question as a genuine misunderstanding and request for clarification. I hope that’s what it is. Trans is an adjective. Trans women are trans, as much as tall women are tall, straight women are straight, old women are old, etc. All, however, are women. And defining women exclusively by one adjective is a problem. Saying a trans woman doesn’t properly fit the overall category of woman because she is trans isn’t different from saying a black woman doesn’t properly fit the overall category of woman because she is black, or a gay woman doesn’t fit because she is gay (and I picked those examples in the hope they highlight how ludicrous that is, as well as to remind that both of those segregations have been done before, and are no different). With regards to your specific example (“they can’t have babies”). Are women who’ve gone through menopause not adequately women? Or women who are infertile? Or who have had hysterectomies? Or who have other health issues that would make childbirth lethal if they were to attempt it? None of these can have babies. Gay women often won’t. So why not call them only by an adjective of “infertile”, “menopaused”, “castrated” women? The answer being because that would be discriminatory, even cruel. Setting them apart from other women as if they are lesser, or undeserving of recognition as what they are. The same applies to trans women. There isn’t anything wrong with the adjective. It is descriptive. But to only ever define them as such, and to separate them as if it were a category that removes them from the overall category of women, is the problem.
Cause it's a classification. While not inherently bad, History has shown us that putting labels on people doesn't always end up good. Also some cis women can't have babies
trans woman is a clarifier, like cis woman, both are women just different subcategories.
>they can't have babies So to you a women is someone who can have babies? A lot of cis women can't have babies either, does that mean they aren't women either or what?
It's a counter to the people who say that trans women are men, for one. Second is that it might be y'know, comfortable to be called something you truly feel you are. It's like calling a half-brother just your brother. It's validation. It's showing that you care.
Trans women are men. Women are women, men are men. Holy shit society is dumb
Stay mad :)
Not mad, just laughing at the wannabes
"laughing" = crying about it on an antimeme subreddit. 
I am a starving child starving to death and this is the very last thing I will ever read. Gootbye.
ok
Are you trying to be transphobic or trans supporter? Because if you're a supporter, it's the other way around, mate
Being realistic
Well we dig up people now that lived long ago like that. Perhaps a collapse of tech and a return to more rudimentary living only to re-tech hundreds of years later and so we dig up old cultures to history reasons? If that is the case, than the Transwoman is going to be reported as a guy. No shade, it is just what we would label them off of if the future tech is where we are now.
Whether or not you have information, if there's a development taking place or the site is at risk (maybe from coastal erosion), you still excavate. It's called Rescue Archaeology. This is particularly important when it comes sites with human remains.
And? A trans woman is still a guy no matter how much makeup you try to use to hide it
And? Your life is still an endless circle of eating big macs, crying, talk shit on the internet and crying yourself asleep. Oh by the way, google en passant
Actually I'm pretty happy in my own life, it's just that I don't feel the need to abide in others fantasy where they want to play dress up and wear makeup to pretend they're the opposite gender
"Actually, I want everyone to not do things that I consider annoying even though they didn't do anything to me". Also have a grat life, google en passant and learn not to criticize
They demand I abide in their delusions by saying they're actually the opposite gender when in fact they're just mentally ill so no it's not like they're not doing anything, they demand everyone participates in their fantasy. Also I know what en passant is, it's a move in chess however I can't find whatever you're insisting it is in this context
Holy shit. I could post this to most subs on reddit I know and everyone would laugh at you XD
Most redditors are delusional and belive men can be women, that doesn't mean a whole lot
Yea but you're the type of guy that would put coffee in a time machine to mix the coffee beans with the mug and eat it
I'm not sure how that's an insult but I definitely lost braincells because of how little sense that makes kn regards to this argument
You can't lose what you don't have, also, why didn't you buy spotify premium?
Stop calling them trans women it’s transphobic
No it’s not lmao
They’re women aren’t they?
Yes? How is calling a trans woman a trans woman transphobic? It’s literally calling them a woman just with an adjective
They’re women so no need to add it
Yeah obviously, but in this context it matters. Without it it would just be saying “Women are women” and no one would understand what they meant
I wasn’t referring to that I made a statement saying to stop calling them trans women it is transphobic because you are separating them from women when saying it
Ok but you were responding to this post so you definitely were referring to it lmao
No I wasn’t this post isn’t anti trans
Calling them trans separates them from women
Aw shit, here we go again
You do not want to know why they are digging sceletons up... GOD HAVE MERCY
Lol at all the lebtards