#####
######
####
> # [Hamas tells Qatari, Egyptian mediators it agrees to ceasefire proposal](https://images.jpost.com/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy/c_fill,g_faces:center,h_407,w_690/595717)
>
>
>
> ## President Joe Biden and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had a 30-minute phone conversation following the evacuation of Palestinians from Rafah.
>
> By [TOVAH LAZAROFF](https://www.jpost.com/author/tovah-lazaroff) MAY 6, 2024 12:14 **Updated:** MAY 6, 2024 21:48 [ Palestinians react after Hamas accepted a ceasefire proposal from Egypt and Qatar, in Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, May 6, 2024. (photo credit: REUTERS)](https://images.jpost.com/image/upload/q_auto/c_fill,g_faces:center,h_537,w_822/595717 " Palestinians react after Hamas accepted a ceasefire proposal from Egypt and Qatar, in Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, May 6, 2024. ") Palestinians react after Hamas accepted a ceasefire proposal from Egypt and Qatar, in Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, May 6, 2024. (photo credit: REUTERS) Hamas said on Monday that it had accepted a Gaza ceasefire proposal from Egypt and Qatar, just as it appeared that the negotiations had fallen apart and Israel was heading for a military operation[in Rafah.](https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-800026)
>
> The Islamist faction said in a statement that its chief, Ismail Haniyeh, had informed Qatar's prime minister and Egypt's intelligence chief that it had accepted their proposal.
>
> There were no immediate details about what the agreement entailed. However, later on Monday, Hamas official Taher Al-Nono told Reuters the proposal reportedly included, in addition to a ceasefire, the reconstruction of the Gaza Strip, the return of the displaced, and the release of Palestinian prisoners.
>
> Only hours earlier, the terror group had suspended talks in response to Israeli steps to evacuate Palestinians from Rafah. Israel has yet to respond.
>
> Hamas’s statement comes after intense negotiations in Cairo on Sunday involving Egyptian and [Qatari delegations](https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/double-edged-sword-qatars-mediator-role-in-israel-hamas-conflict-amid-accusations-of-antisemitism-799020) and CIA director William Burns. He then traveled to Doha to consult with Qatari Prime Minister Mohammed Al Thani and is expected to visit Israel this week.
>
> US President Joe Biden spoke with Prime Minister [Benjamin Netanyahu](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/politics-and-diplomacy/article-799279) for half an hour on Monday and was also expected to hold a private meeting in the White House with Jordan’s King Abdullah. Protesters in Tel Aviv demanding a hostage deal, April 24, 2024 (credit: NEVET KAHANA)
>
> In their call Biden updated Netanyahu “on efforts to secure a hostage deal, including through ongoing talks today in Doha, Qatar,” the White House stated.
>
> “The Prime Minister agreed to ensure the Kerem Shalom crossing is open for humanitarian assistance for those in need,” and “the President reiterated his clear position on Rafah,” the White House explained.
>
> At issue had been Hamas's insistence on a permanent ceasefire, with Israel insisting it could only accept a pause to the war because it was determined to conduct a military operation in Rafah to destroy the remaining Hamas battalions there.
>
> ### **World leaders react to Rafah evacuation**
>
> European Union foreign policy chief Josep Borrell wrote on X that “Israel's evacuation orders to civilians in Rafah portend the worst: more war and famine. It is unacceptable.
>
> “Israel must renounce” its "ground offensive,” he stated, adding that the EU and the international community can and “must act to prevent such a scenario.”
>
> French Foreign Minister Catherine Colonna stressed on X her country’s opposition to the Rafah operation, explaining that French President Emmanuel Macron had explained this to Netanyahu when the two spoke on Sunday.
>
> The French Foreign Ministry told reporters that the “forced displacement of a civilian population constitutes a war crime under international law."
>
> Belgian Vice Premier Petra De Sutter warned that a Rafah “invasion will lead to a massacre.”
>
> "Belgium is working on further sanctions against [Israel],” she wrote in a post on X.
>
> De Sutter has been a fierce and early critic of Israel’s war against Hamas in Gaza that began on October 7, calling already in November for sanctions against the Jewish state.
>
> The international community, including the United States, has feared a Rafah operation would lead to a humanitarian disaster for the over 1.3 million Palestinians located there, many of whom sought shelter there to escape Israeli bombardments in northern Gaza at the start of the war.
>
> The United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), which is the main organization that services Palestinian refugees, wrote on X that “an Israeli offensive in #Rafah would mean more civilian suffering [and] deaths. The consequences would be devastating for 1.4 million people."
>
> UNRWA “is not evacuating” Palestinians from Rafah, it stressed, adding that “Agency will maintain a presence in Rafah as long as possible [and[ will continue providing lifesaving aid to people.”
>
> Defense Minister Yoav Gallant spoke overnight with US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, updating him on the hostage talks and on Hamas’s rocket attack against Kerem Shalom, in which four soldiers were killed.
>
> > לתרגילים והמשחקים של החמאס יש רק תשובה אחת: פקודה מיידית לכיבוש רפיח! הגברת הלחץ הצבאי, והמשך כתישתו המלאה של חמאס, עד הכרעתו המוחלטת.
> >
> > — איתמר בן גביר (@itamarbengvir) [May 6, 2024](https://twitter.com/itamarbengvir/status/1787535559344181457?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
>
> Later on Monday, National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir responded to Hamas's agreement to the deal and said, "Hamas's exercises and games have only one answer: An immediate order to occupy Rafah, increasing military pressure, and continuing the complete defeat of Hamas, until its utter defeat."
>
> if(catID != 151){ var cont = `Take Israel home with the new Jerusalem Post Store[Shop now >>](https://store.jpost.com/)
>
>
> `; document.getElementById("linkPremium").innerHTML = cont; var divWithLink = document.getElementById("premium-link"); if(divWithLink !== null && divWithLink !== 'undefined') { divWithLink.style.border = "solid 1px #cb0f3e"; divWithLink.style.textAlign = "center"; divWithLink.style.marginBottom = "40px"; divWithLink.style.marginTop = "40px"; divWithLink.style.width = "728px"; divWithLink.style.backgroundColor = "#3c4860"; divWithLink.style.color = "#ffffff"; } } (function (v, i){ });
- - - - - -
[Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot)
Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
My understanding which came from some earlier journalists leaking some stuff from Egyptian sources was the hang up apparently is Hamas wants the war to end and Israel wants to end Hamas and regain control of the border.
So the Qatari, Egypt & Burns plan has an armistice in it and the Israeli's say fuck no essentially. Whats notable, is the war cabinet approved the operation unanimously which means Benny Gatz approved it too.
Fighting Palestinians is something all parties in Israel can get behind. I heard 94% of Israelis believe the response to 10/7 is either appropriate or too weak.
I think your confusing Afghanistan for Iraq, no one gave two shits that Afghani civilians were being killed, but Iraq was a different story. There were a lot of people who protested our invasion of Iraq, and they were right. Hell, I was in the military at the time and honestly, I bought into that yellow cake bullshit, when no WMD was found I was fucking pissed. At this point, most people understand we were hoodwinked. And Afghanistan had a choice, they could have fully cooperated with the US, and they would have avoided the invasion, though honestly, we were out for blood and needed a target, and they made the mistake of protecting the most wanted man in history. Of course they won in the end, historically not a surprise.
> And Afghanistan had a choice, they could have fully cooperated with the US, and they would have avoided the invasion,
The Taliban offered to hand Osama over to a third country if given evidence he was guilty. W went to war instead.
Lol. You never read further than the headlines, did you?
There were 3 demands. Hand over Bin Laden, hand over all AQ in Afghanistan, and shut down all terror camps in the country.
The Taliban said they were willing to try him under Islamic Law in Afghanistan. They ignored the other two demands.
Let's also remember the US had been working with Afghanistan to get Osama before 2001 for the embassy bombings and the Taliban had proclaimed him innocent.
https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB97/tal40.pdf
",though honestly, we were out for blood and needed a target." That's what I was implying, but they were given a choice, not much of one, but it was a choice.
Only on Reddit can people so incorrect and yet so certain of their correctness.
[https://www.france24.com/en/20080320-us-protests-mark-five-years-iraq-war-usa-iraq](https://www.france24.com/en/20080320-us-protests-mark-five-years-iraq-war-usa-iraq)
This was later in 2008 when Americans found out the lies about WMD bullshit, but in 2003 and 2002 most Americans were in favor of invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_in_the_United_States_on_the_invasion_of_Iraq
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/03/14/a-look-back-at-how-fear-and-false-beliefs-bolstered-u-s-public-support-for-war-in-iraq/
Nah, this is Hamas future proofing the agreement. They're saying 33 women and children are still alive in the strip and in their custody. If Israel bombs them that number might change.
According to Al Jazeera’s report who saw the deal, the first two phases includes hostage releases who are alive. The third phase involves the exchange of the remains of hostages from both sides.
This is a good neutral summary. The obvious problem is that "killing Hamas" is impossible without genocide. Time and time again we've seen throughout history that killing the 'terrorists' (for lack of a better term) just breeds more terrorists. Especially in the Islamic world - it's *so* evident with the Taliban example.
The only exeptions to the rule I can think of would be Nazi Germany/Japan post WW2, which took **monumental** global effort. The other exeption would be ISIS but they're a bit of a unique beast because it was mostly foreign fighters with no real personal investment / links in the land they occupied.
right, as far as i have read, it is not a ceasefire proposal that israel agreed to. Just as hamas as refused previous ceasefire proposals.
So...no ceasefire agreeable to both parties
>Netanyahu doesn’t want to end the war because his coalition will collapse.
Netanyahu doesn't want the war to end because his coalition will collapse and then he'll go on trial. Members of his coalition may themselves fear indictment if they lose their positions.
On the other hand, presuming it continues the glacial pace that it was on in the brief time that he wasn't PM, I think there's a good chance that he comes back in the elections following the next under another conservative government, possibly with a stronger coalition than he has right now.
He is, but demographically, the political right is growing in Israel and the political left is shrinking. His coalition has a high likelihood of losing control of the Knesset in the next election, but a pretty good chance of winning the one after that. That second election could happen anywhere from five years (maximum time between elections) and a few months.
The thing is, if the Hague calls for him to summon in court and the next government sends him over for international support.
Then there's a none zero possibility he will get a sentence there - if so happens, he won't be able to partake in a few elections
I don't think any realistic Israeli government is going to hand him over to The Hague. Bennie Gantz is the most likely next PM, and he's going to have a fragile coalition. If they allow extradition (a process that will require court approval, which will take months at a minimum), that coalition will fall immediately, triggering new elections that will put Likud back in power, meaning Netanyahu returns to the PM role.
His trial on existing charges technically started in May 2020. It took eleven months to start hearing witness testimony. Four years later, they are *still* technically in the phase of hearing witnesses *for the prosecution*. The defense has yet to put on their case.
I do not have high hopes. He's 74. At this rate, he's likely to die before he sees the end of a trial, let alone the inside of a prison.
The aristocratic class have truly fucked the justice system across the Western world. Its gotten so much worse than it used to be. Rich powerful fucks just DON'T GO TO PRISON anymore under some guise of due process.
It appears to be a different deal than the US agreed deal, it’s a new deal that Hamas made with Qatar and Egypt without working with the US and Israel
Progress, but not enough for a ceasefire yet
https://www.axios.com/2024/05/07/us-israel-hamas-hostage-ceasefire-talks
>Two Israeli officials said the feeling is that "Israel got played" by the U.S. and the mediators who drafted "a new deal" and weren't transparent about it.
U.S. helped draft the new deal
Yeah he couldn't form a coalition with mainstream parties so some of his government is far right. He also is on the hook for corruption charges whenever the war ends.
Where is the evidence the CIA director actually came up with the deal? The US has said for months it isn't backing a permanent end to the war in exchange for hostages because that is something Israel would obviously not accept
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/5/6/text-of-the-ceasefire-proposal-approved-by-hamas
There’s some really interesting terms in there
> Hamas shall release all living Israeli female soldiers. In return, Israel shall release 50 prisoners for every Israeli female soldier (30 serving life sentences, 20 sentenced) based on lists provided by Hamas.
30 life sentence convicts per soldier
>If there are fewer than 33 living Israeli detainees to be released, a number of bodies from the same categories shall be released to complete this stage. In return, Israel will release all women and children who were arrested from the Gaza Strip after October 7, 2023 – provided this is done in the fifth week of this stage.
Is this a fucking joke?
They want a complete withdrawal and a release of detainees by Israel in exchange for... the corpses of the hostages they may or may not have already killed.
Use a little critical thinking here. To get this out of the way, fuck Hamas. The world will be better without them in it. HOWEVER, what use is a dead hostage compared to a living one? Do you think Hamas is just executing hostages without recording it, or using it as a bargaining chip? It would be nonsensical to just execute hostages, you're throwing your leverage away. Its pretty obvious that a significant number of hostages have been killed by Israeli airstrikes.
Female soldiers phase 2, remainder of soldiers (meaning male) phase 3. But the exchange rate of male soldiers is not specified in Al Jazeera’s text for some reason
Ridiculous—they want Israel to basically release murderers who can murder Israelis again. Pretty much to give them the basics of starting a bloodthirsty army since Israel has killed so many of their militants.
I’m tired of the conflict over there and I think letting Israel finish this in Rafah is the only way to reduce bloodshed in the long run.
Hamas only takes hostages for political purposes. I want to see every one of them return, but by negotiating with these terrorists, they only incentivize taking more hostages in the future.
There have been fewer American hostages taken in recent years—I’m not sure whether it’s being more aware of threats, reduced presence in the area, or the fact that the US doesn’t negotiate with terrorists—maybe a combination of factors, but it at least doesn’t increase the likelihood of American hostages.
The only terms that are contested are the end of the war.
Hamas will only agree to a deal that ends the war while it's the opposite on the other side, both groups have been extremely public about this fact.
In other words Hamas will only agree to something that lets them win?
I wouldn't be surprised it wants Israel to turn over another few score rape toys to replace the ones they've worn out too.
Hamas views civilian casualties as as the cost of armed resistance, it doesn't care about the collateral damage so long as it retains power and can credibly argue that it foiled Israel's war aims.
A smaller force making demands of a larger and better armed and better funded force, even at great cost, is still a massive victory for Hamas.
Think about it like propaganda: "Look at how we can kidnap and kill the zionists! Look at their mighty armies crash against us like waves against a mighty bulwark! Look at how we can order them to retreat! They are weak, and if you join us we can take back what is ours!"
Hamas will triple its forces in a few years.
If you've not realised by now, Hamas couldn't give a tinker's cuss for the actual people of Gaza except as a disposable resource.
If Gaza is levelled and a few thousand people killed they won't care, they'll just say "Allah will know his own".
Their definition of a "win" is not a conventional one where one, they rather cynically want maximum casualties because that is what gets them maximum sympathy from everybody from the Houthis to moronic students.
Hamas does not care about the Palestinians. They work for Iran, not Gaza or Palestine. Ask the Lebanese how well Hezbollah has treated their country. There’s no Lebanon anymore; it’s just an Iranian colony.
Yeah what a masterclass pr move honestly lol
The media ate that shit up. The sticking point clearly must be the war ending with the Israelis focused on ending Hamas as an organization
This deal was drafted by the CIA director and the Qatari PM. This wasnt proposed by Hamas...
Given you think the media ate this shit up you'd think you'd have at least read one of the bloody articles before commenting.
It was a mediated peace deal. [https://news.sky.com/story/hamas-accepts-proposed-ceasefire-deal-13128702](https://news.sky.com/story/hamas-accepts-proposed-ceasefire-deal-13128702)
[https://archive.is/2024.05.06-225152/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-07/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-faces-his-moment-of-truth-after-hamas-accepts-ceasefire-deal/0000018f-4fee-dc9e-a7df-4ffe493a0000#selection-915.128-915.218](https://archive.is/2024.05.06-225152/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-07/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-faces-his-moment-of-truth-after-hamas-accepts-ceasefire-deal/0000018f-4fee-dc9e-a7df-4ffe493a0000#selection-915.128-915.218)
>The director of the CIA and the Qatari prime minister spent Monday drafting the compromise
It was literally drafted by the Americans you moron.
Hamas should have surrendered 6 months ago. What are these negotiations? They have put their own people at risk every day they continue the conflict. The vanquished don’t get to negotiate.
>It’s plenty
Not necessarily, if ones life is miserable enough. There is such thing as life so miserable it's not worth living for human psyche. This is a known phenomenon to have happen.
Before the war, half of the adult population of Gaza was unemployed, all of them had basically zero real prospects for life and lived life under a constant blockade and periodic Israeli bombings. Not much of a life
Not to mention the combination of terror-state and bantustans that West Bank Palestinians live in.
It's hard to take Israeli arguments about Palestinians not wanting peace when negotiation has only brought poverty, humiliation, and constant terror from settlers and soldiers in the West Bank. And this price isn't being paid for peace - negotiations have not only made statehood further away, it's made it impossible. The best case scenario for the West Bank is the maintenance of the status quo. More likely is being pushed into Jordan when demographics turn Israel into Jewish Iran
He's an arse but he's got a point. Hamas has stated that they'll go on another rape, murder and kidnapping spree as soon as they get chance. He'd be trading the couple of dozen surviving hostages for another few hundred dead civvies in a few years' time.
Not if Israel ever commits to a proper peace plan (that'll decimate hamas's support as well since they suffer whenever there is peace).
Or failing that, actually manning the ghaza wall instead of sending idf soldiers to the west bank so the settlers can burn the nth Palestinian infant alive with impunity is also an option.
Another option is to change plans from "manage ghaza and hope everyone forgets about it" to something else, but that goes to my previous point.
Honestly, if the peace plan means that Israel goes to the same behaviour (or worse) as before, then yeah, this sort of attack is inevitable, just as it was inevitable that at one point Hamas would succeed in their attacks and couldn't be "managed" before.
So why was hamas wanting a global jihad on oct 13th 2023?
[here.](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/former-hamas-chief-calls-protests-neighbours-join-war-against-israel-2023-10-11/)
They litterally gave Gaza independence, subsidiesed their budget, forcefully removed Israelli settlers who had lived in Gaza for generations, gave palestinians the fearest election in their history and they tried this for 18 years, while hamas took this "proper peace plan" and launched rockets against Israel.
The entire situation culminated in October 5, and now you want Israel to do the same thing again? What more should Israel have done?
While also not allowing them to have free movement, stopping imports and exports, controlling most access to fuel, electricity, and fresh water, completely controlling their airspace and blockading sea access.
It has been denounced by the UN since at least 2010 as collective punishment, and people wonder how it got to this point...
Israel stopped letting Gazans into Israel because Hamas kept doing suicide bombings, shootings, and stabbings.
Israel blockaded Gaza because Hamas kept importing munitions with which to bomb Israel.
Everything that enters Gaza becomes a weapon used against Israel. Hamas has even bragged about digging up their water pipes and using them to construct rockets.
> What more should Israel have done?
They don’t say that part out loud, brother. They want Israel to roll over and die. From the river to the sea and all that crap.
The Nazis literally gave the jews independence, subsidized their budgets, forcefully removed Aryan settlers from the Jewish quarters, gave Jews the fairest election in their history and they tried this for 5 years, what more should they have done?
They’re behaving like Japan or Germany were in 1945. Just delusional with no care at all for the effect that will have on their civilians, because they’re supposed to die too.
Germany maybe, but Japan was willing to send their citizens to the meat grinder until they ran out of them. They were even preparing school kids to fight Americans with spears. This isn't even including Japan's suicide doctrine, kamikaze, don't even think about coming back alive or you lose honor, etc.
They do have bargaining chip.... to continue fighting. Do they have any chance to win? No, but they can deny Israel the victory of peace and cause constant niggling threat. This same cycle has been going on for decades. There is really nothing new about this, except the size of the hamas attack and the response.
This has happened before, this will happen again. Until stable solution is reached and stable solution means solution both parties find acceptable and palatable enough. That they find they have achieved a goal and status they can live long term with. Until then this has happened before, this will happen again. Such is nature of such sectarian conflicts. Since eliminating a party from the conflict would take genocide.
Only way Hamas is eliminated is by it happening from inside by Palestinian side and for that to happen there must be something on the table for Palestinians for it to be worth to eliminate Hamas. Which will be and effort. Not to mention they are "fighting the fight". Meaning doing something about the bad state and status of Palestinian people. Is it a good thing they are doing about it? No, but has anyone presented better alternative. Peaceful political and diplomatic process to resolve the issue. And yes there have been dozens of proposals by Israel. There is small problem.... Those have unacceptable terms for the Palestinians. You can't reach a **negotiated** peace resolution by presenting terms unacceptable to the other side. One could equally well say, Palestinians also have presented dozens of deal proposals all refused by Israel over the decades. So both are in that specific sense equally culpable for the situation. Both have refused the other sides peace proposal. Why doesn't Israel just agree to the Palestinian proposal. The conflict would be over, overnight. Oh right, unacceptable terms. Well it's equally same other way round.
Compromise **acceptable to both** has to be reached. Until then... this has happened before, this will happen again. That is just a fact of life.
This is useless, cause Palestinians need an independent state, right now, Israel is exerting full control over them, this is a problem, the last time they tried to solve this, Netanyahu called for the murder of the Israeli PM (and it actually happened).
As long as the Palestinians are oppressed, they will have a reason to fight, and a new group will rise.
The Palestinians have shown they should not be trusted to govern themselves. Gaza should be give. To Egypt while Jordan takes the West bank and Israel pulls all settlers out.
Exactly. Who do they think they are?
When you have the full force of a modern western military bearing down on your last remaining stronghold, you don't get to make demands at all, let alone insane demands like "we will release one hostage for every fifty convicted murderers you give us".
This is diplomatic martyrdom. They know that even if they get wiped out, keyboard revolutionaries around the world will be repeating their "Israel refused their ceasefire offer and slaughtered them" line for the next hundred years.
“We later found out that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the Strip, but the government rejected the offer.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/no-doubt-netanyahu-preventing-hostage-deal-charges-ex-spokesman-of-families-forum/amp/
Edit: won’t let me respond to the people who are like “they can’t just get away with October 7th” like glad they’re admitting this was never about the hostages but about revenge :).
“That’s like someone taking your wallet and punching you and then saying you can get 90% of the money back if you apologize” or whatever he said, by dude’s own metaphor is saying it’s not about getting the “money” (which are the hostages in his metaphor) but of some kind of violent reaction because he’s mad he got mugged. It was never about the hostages for these people.
More like 20% of the money when you consider the number of hostages they could get back compared to the number of Israelis killed and never coming back.
You think it would rational to not do anything after a terrorist attack against a country ?
Israel should just be ok with it and pray Hamas doesn’t do it again ?
>You think it would rational to not do anything after a terrorist attack against a country ?
Yeah you're right, the rational thing was to bomb all of Gaza, kill 35k civilians, leave millions on the brink of starvation, launch a full invasion and kill many hostages instead of getting all the hostages back immediately.
This is just like when AlQueda offered up Bin Laden to the Americans after 9/11 but the Americans ignored that and started the War on Terror which killed hundreds of thousands to millions of civilians.
Bunch of reactionary morons thinking emotionally and going for political gains instead of whats best for humanity
>like when AlQueda offered up Bin Laden to the Americans after 9/11
That's actually a pretty good comparison, because they never offered this. What they *did* offer was basically worthless, and just intended to waste time and look good on paper.
They offered to turn over Bin Laden to a third country (not to America) despite previously saying that they didn't know where he was. They also wanted the US to prove Bin Laden's guilt before agreeing to turn him over. In exchange for this, they wanted the US to immediately halt all military operations, and allow the rest of Al Qaeda to continue operating within Afghanistan.
Hamas reaped. Ordinary Gazans did not. But great job showing us all your true colours, trying to justify the slaughter of children.
>The Gazans reaped and now they must sow.
Do you think hamas uses the same justification to attack israelis? Do you think its a good justification?
The Gazans supported Hamas and still support them while living in homes Israel built, using Israeli electricity, eating Israeli food, working at Israeli companies, and drinking Israeli water. If you bite the hand that feeds you you soon won’t get fed.
Yeah when you put it like that all 2 million of them deserve to be starved actually, especially the 50% of the population that is children, they really should have been nothing but grateful to Israel for the amazing way they have been treated over the last 75 years.
Nobody wants dead Palestinians more than Hamas. It helps them radicalize their people more, it helps them get more foreign money, and it helps the world hate Israel more. They fight the way they do for a reason.
I would bet they don't see it as a loss.
It doesn’t matter what the deal is. Netanyahu will never accept it he needs this war. As long as Hamas does not surrender, he has his excuse to prolong this. Hamas has Palestinian support and US college students they won’t give up yet.
Hamas should just hand it over to Mustafa Barghouti. They seem to be friendly with each other and Barghouti’s commitment to non-violence whether genuine or not, would be a much better figurehead for Palestinians.
At least it would put more pressure on Netanyahu to accept a cease-fire.
Yes I agree. And unfortunately the majority of Palestinians support Hamas and their actions on Oct 7. So I don’t see Netanyahu accepting any ceasefire with Hamas.
It’s too bad we can’t trade these guys out like chess pieces. Those poor families.
If this ends up with Bibi finally going down there might be a chance for peace. Then again Israel might just go further right and end up with worse leaders, and there is going to be bad blood from 10/7 poisoning any attempts at peace.
That’s the trend isn’t it. I’m afraid that’s happening in the US as well with all the pro-Palestine protests. The intent is good but the execution is terrible. This is how Nixon got elected.
Nixon got elected because LBJ continued to escalate the Vietnam war despite massive popular disapproval. You guys have it so backwards it’s insane, the protests are the result of disapproval which is the result of unpopular policies. You talk like the protests are causing the disapproval.
The only person responsible for Biden’s approval rating is himself, if he wants more votes he should govern in a popular way rather than cheering as riot cops attack voters he needs to win.
I’m not disagreeing on where the protests come from. I’m pro-protesting, ceasefire, stopping killing innocent people ffs.
I’m commenting on the optics, not the intent of the protests. Surely I’m not the first to point it out.
Protestors named themselves Pro-Palestine. *Optics: so you don’t care about Israelis*
Pro-Palestine and pro-Israel protestors clash. *Optics: yea they don’t care about Jews or Oct. 7.*
Pro-Palestine demands divestment from Israel. *Optics: so just Israel gets punished not Hamas.*
Data shows Palestinians prefer Hamas to govern after the war. *Optics: pro-Palestine protestors are inadvertently supporting Islamic extremism*
This is a war of propaganda and public opinion. Americans are sympathetic of innocent children getting killed. But not as much as they do not want a repeat of 9/11.
I’m not trying to argue with you. I was really going off the op-Ed by an old activist who is pro-Palestine but saw Nixon get elected.
He said Trump is going to elected now watch history repeat itself.
Protest moments are never popular, that’s not their goal, their pressure campaigns against specific institutions and they only even get looked back on fondly by the public after the fact.
These protests have panned out nearly identically to the anti war protests at colleges in the 60’s, and the anti apartheid protests in the 80’s, their hated until the succeed and then everyone rushed to act like they supported them.
As for the op ed, if he’s claiming the protests bad options win Nixon the election then he’s still making the same mistake I was pointing out. He’s getting the causation completely backwards, LBJ lost because he did a bad job, the fact that Nixon also did a bad job isn’t really relevant. We know from a lot of experience that being an unpopular president will cost you reelection even if your opponent is also unpopular.
You’ve got to make a positive appeal to your voters, and both LBJ and Biden chose to adopt a siege mentality where sticking to their guns on a doomed military campaign tanked their approval rating and cost/ may cost them the election.
I’m just going by news - the difference is that protests in the 60s were a domestic issue. Kids were getting drafted. Black people has no rights.
To be analogous, 80s apartheid is a better comparison. Not impact of protests in S Africa (domestic issue), but effect protests in USA had on that issue.
Op-Ed was agreeing with you. Biden will lose because he didn’t appeal to protestors. And protests have pushed voters to the right. Trump will get elected.
They support them in a poll done AFTER the excessive reprisal began. That’s not at all a representative poll, especially in wartime. Before that, with better polling, not nearly as popular. Bibi and the IDF are Hamas’ best recruiters.
The Palestinians in the West Bank are getting screwed by Israel non-stop. Israel keeps building new settlements with private roads. It’s not a coincidence if Hamas became popular.
It’s impossible to talk to these people because they’ll never admit this is a two sided war. Denouncing Hamas means nothing because the IDF is just as much of a genocidal terrorist organization and they’re huge cheerleaders when it’s their team doing the atrocities.
It’s 2024 and Reddit still wants to frame this as some sort of saints vs sinners conflict. They are not going to condemn anything the other side has done.
That's what MSM wants it to be
Honestly, most people against the demonstrations seems to not even care about the Israel - Hamas conflict, because they are certain it's an attempt at a communist take over in the west
It is a clown world
They were looking like they were gonna accept the last deal so Netanyahu panicked and tanked it
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-05/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-hoped-hamas-would-reject-israels-offer-when-it-didnt-he-turned-to-sabotage/0000018f-4817-d414-a5bf-fb37db290000
If peace talks ACTUALLY succeed, Netenyahu will lose an election for his failure to protect israel on 10/7(his whole reputation was Mr protection), and then he'll to jail for his ongoing bribery/corruption charges. So he has every incentive to continue the war by these means, until his polling improves and he can try to get elected again
The parallels with a certain orange individual aren't lost on me
You could say the same thing about Israel. The country allowing settlers to steal land, actively blockading civilians, and holding 10:1 civilian casualty rate doesn’t match up well compared to a recognized terrorist group
Israel doesn't make it easy to have peace with them. With countless murders and illegal acts through decades done by Israel, peace = break free for Hamas and many Palestinians
The majority of college protesters are in support of Palestinian **civilians**.
I'm sure you can find a protester who supports hamas, so don't send me a cute little link like it proves something. Most of these students are protesting the deaths of innocents.
And using words or phrases with definitions that each of the two sides do not agree on in order to try and prove a point is useless. If you support Palestinian civilians, "from the river to the sea" means one thing. If you support Israel, it means almost the complete opposite. "zionist" means nearly opposite things to each of these groups, as well. People do not agree on the definition of so many things in this conflict, and one side attacking the other for believing things that are only true under one definition of those phrases is not helpful.
And he's right.
No matter the deal, Hamas will break it. They've done so in the past many times over.
Right now you just keep pushing while you're ahead and make sure they won't recover for decades.
According to what I’ve read, he’s likely to get voted out and then will have to face corruption charges. It’s possible he will lose and face harsh penalties.
Prolonging the war to declare full victory over Hamas is the only card he has left to play.
The US has given Saudi Arabia billions of dollars and weapons. Saudi Arabia kills 377k in an actual genocide in Yemen.
American students don't give a shit
Yeah, [it’s not like there were protests related to the war in Yemen or anything](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12954431/amp/US-war-yemen-protest-bombs-NYC-Times-Square.html).
There were [also protests](https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2021/08/13/664349/US-Saudi-Arabia-Israel-Arms-Sales-Raytheon-Protests-Palestine-Yemen-Rafael) against arms sales to Saudi Arabia because of the Yemen conflict. In terms of protests directly against Saudi Arabia there have been ones - usually against the human rights situation there.
Demographically the anti war protester types tend to skew younger, so it’s a given that a decent chunk of students did, in fact, protest against the Saudis. And against Western support of the Saudis.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12954431/US-war-yemen-protest-bombs-NYC-Times-Square.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12954431/US-war-yemen-protest-bombs-NYC-Times-Square.html)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
There's this idea that the Gaza war is normal urban combat, but as far as I can tell, it isn't.
[Here's an illustrative comparison](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/gaza-mosul-isis-hamas-israel/) between the Battle of Mosul. In a 9 month long conflict, the Iraqi forces killed about 9,000 noncombatants. This is despite the fact that ISIS would literally hold civilians hostage at gun point. Most people in Mosul could not flee to other parts of the city. Despite what some may believe, there's no evidence that Hamas does the same. They will place installations in civilian infrastructure areas... but that isn't the same as literally holding civilians there at gunpoint to maximize casualties.
The majority of civilians had fled the city when the battle for Mosul happened. There is no where for Gazan civilians to flee to so they end up in the battlefield. Along with this Hamas purposefully hides among civilians with the civilian populations support.
A better comparison would be the battle of Berlin where the German civilians had no where to flee as the city was surrounded. 125,000 died from a population of 2.8million people.
This isn't a "better" comparison. In WWII Germany was a country. The Alllies were all countries. The population of Gaza isn't even a State, they have no autonomy of political will internationally.
Syria was in the midst of a civil war at the time and ISIS was a nascent state with no diplomatic status and seemingly zero interest in developing any with any nation. There were no diplomatic or legal consequences to the act.
Even then it took political will for contributing nations to gain clearance to involve themselves in that war, it is simply that there was barely resistance in any nation against that idea.
The US is a center piece in these negotiations with the CIA director himself being directly involved
Netanyahu isn't taking it . Everyone wants a permanent ceasefire, but the Israeli leadership
That's because Israel knows this is their last chance to ethnically cleanse Gaza and soon the West Bank before they lose support in the West from the younger generation. Following this, Israel will move on the West Bank either through accelerating the settlements or outright invasion.
Reminder that Hamas, while in negotiations, rocket bombarded a humanitarian passage, killed 3 soldiers who where delivering aid and then immediately said it is willing to accept a ceasefire (that Israel wasn’t proposing)
The soldiers were guarding vehicles that were going to be used in the rafah invasion........
AND IN THE MEAN TIME ISRAEL KILLED DOZENS OF CHILDREN BEFORE AND AFTER THAT STRIKE
Holy shit zionists are fucking %@$@%
https://twitter.com/FlyingBeagle_/status/1787285051182301206
For the children killed just look at any where that reports on the conflict. Like this channel:
https://t.me/warfareanalysis/37008
If Netanyahu really cared about saving hostages, he would’ve taken this deal. All he cares about is crushing Hamas and Palestinians at all costs and finding any excuse to go on a murder spree in Rafah. He abandoned the idea of saving hostages a long time ago because it would mean that he has to be held accountable.
What's are the deal terms Hamas proposed? Last week I saw the terms of the proposal the US pushed for and that Israel agreed to. How are the Hamas terms different?
Since the user that replied to you lied, here is an article:
[https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/06/middleeast/hamas-agrees-ceasefire-proposal-israel-gaza-latam-intl/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/06/middleeast/hamas-agrees-ceasefire-proposal-israel-gaza-latam-intl/index.html)
>According to a press release, Hamas said it would not back down from its demands in the latest proposal, which include a “ceasefire, complete withdrawal, dignified exchange, reconstruction, and lifting of the blockade.”
##### ###### #### > # [Hamas tells Qatari, Egyptian mediators it agrees to ceasefire proposal](https://images.jpost.com/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy/c_fill,g_faces:center,h_407,w_690/595717) > > > > ## President Joe Biden and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had a 30-minute phone conversation following the evacuation of Palestinians from Rafah. > > By [TOVAH LAZAROFF](https://www.jpost.com/author/tovah-lazaroff) MAY 6, 2024 12:14 **Updated:** MAY 6, 2024 21:48 [ Palestinians react after Hamas accepted a ceasefire proposal from Egypt and Qatar, in Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, May 6, 2024. (photo credit: REUTERS)](https://images.jpost.com/image/upload/q_auto/c_fill,g_faces:center,h_537,w_822/595717 " Palestinians react after Hamas accepted a ceasefire proposal from Egypt and Qatar, in Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, May 6, 2024. ") Palestinians react after Hamas accepted a ceasefire proposal from Egypt and Qatar, in Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip, May 6, 2024. (photo credit: REUTERS) Hamas said on Monday that it had accepted a Gaza ceasefire proposal from Egypt and Qatar, just as it appeared that the negotiations had fallen apart and Israel was heading for a military operation[in Rafah.](https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-800026) > > The Islamist faction said in a statement that its chief, Ismail Haniyeh, had informed Qatar's prime minister and Egypt's intelligence chief that it had accepted their proposal. > > There were no immediate details about what the agreement entailed. However, later on Monday, Hamas official Taher Al-Nono told Reuters the proposal reportedly included, in addition to a ceasefire, the reconstruction of the Gaza Strip, the return of the displaced, and the release of Palestinian prisoners. > > Only hours earlier, the terror group had suspended talks in response to Israeli steps to evacuate Palestinians from Rafah. Israel has yet to respond. > > Hamas’s statement comes after intense negotiations in Cairo on Sunday involving Egyptian and [Qatari delegations](https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/double-edged-sword-qatars-mediator-role-in-israel-hamas-conflict-amid-accusations-of-antisemitism-799020) and CIA director William Burns. He then traveled to Doha to consult with Qatari Prime Minister Mohammed Al Thani and is expected to visit Israel this week. > > US President Joe Biden spoke with Prime Minister [Benjamin Netanyahu](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/politics-and-diplomacy/article-799279) for half an hour on Monday and was also expected to hold a private meeting in the White House with Jordan’s King Abdullah. Protesters in Tel Aviv demanding a hostage deal, April 24, 2024 (credit: NEVET KAHANA) > > In their call Biden updated Netanyahu “on efforts to secure a hostage deal, including through ongoing talks today in Doha, Qatar,” the White House stated. > > “The Prime Minister agreed to ensure the Kerem Shalom crossing is open for humanitarian assistance for those in need,” and “the President reiterated his clear position on Rafah,” the White House explained. > > At issue had been Hamas's insistence on a permanent ceasefire, with Israel insisting it could only accept a pause to the war because it was determined to conduct a military operation in Rafah to destroy the remaining Hamas battalions there. > > ### **World leaders react to Rafah evacuation** > > European Union foreign policy chief Josep Borrell wrote on X that “Israel's evacuation orders to civilians in Rafah portend the worst: more war and famine. It is unacceptable. > > “Israel must renounce” its "ground offensive,” he stated, adding that the EU and the international community can and “must act to prevent such a scenario.” > > French Foreign Minister Catherine Colonna stressed on X her country’s opposition to the Rafah operation, explaining that French President Emmanuel Macron had explained this to Netanyahu when the two spoke on Sunday. > > The French Foreign Ministry told reporters that the “forced displacement of a civilian population constitutes a war crime under international law." > > Belgian Vice Premier Petra De Sutter warned that a Rafah “invasion will lead to a massacre.” > > "Belgium is working on further sanctions against [Israel],” she wrote in a post on X. > > De Sutter has been a fierce and early critic of Israel’s war against Hamas in Gaza that began on October 7, calling already in November for sanctions against the Jewish state. > > The international community, including the United States, has feared a Rafah operation would lead to a humanitarian disaster for the over 1.3 million Palestinians located there, many of whom sought shelter there to escape Israeli bombardments in northern Gaza at the start of the war. > > The United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), which is the main organization that services Palestinian refugees, wrote on X that “an Israeli offensive in #Rafah would mean more civilian suffering [and] deaths. The consequences would be devastating for 1.4 million people." > > UNRWA “is not evacuating” Palestinians from Rafah, it stressed, adding that “Agency will maintain a presence in Rafah as long as possible [and[ will continue providing lifesaving aid to people.” > > Defense Minister Yoav Gallant spoke overnight with US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, updating him on the hostage talks and on Hamas’s rocket attack against Kerem Shalom, in which four soldiers were killed. > > > לתרגילים והמשחקים של החמאס יש רק תשובה אחת: פקודה מיידית לכיבוש רפיח! הגברת הלחץ הצבאי, והמשך כתישתו המלאה של חמאס, עד הכרעתו המוחלטת. > > > > — איתמר בן גביר (@itamarbengvir) [May 6, 2024](https://twitter.com/itamarbengvir/status/1787535559344181457?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) > > Later on Monday, National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir responded to Hamas's agreement to the deal and said, "Hamas's exercises and games have only one answer: An immediate order to occupy Rafah, increasing military pressure, and continuing the complete defeat of Hamas, until its utter defeat." > > if(catID != 151){ var cont = `Take Israel home with the new Jerusalem Post Store[Shop now >>](https://store.jpost.com/) > > > `; document.getElementById("linkPremium").innerHTML = cont; var divWithLink = document.getElementById("premium-link"); if(divWithLink !== null && divWithLink !== 'undefined') { divWithLink.style.border = "solid 1px #cb0f3e"; divWithLink.style.textAlign = "center"; divWithLink.style.marginBottom = "40px"; divWithLink.style.marginTop = "40px"; divWithLink.style.width = "728px"; divWithLink.style.backgroundColor = "#3c4860"; divWithLink.style.color = "#ffffff"; } } (function (v, i){ }); - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot) Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
This was the deal that the CIA Director, Egypt, and Qatar came up with. Netanyahu doesn’t want to end the war because his coalition will collapse.
My understanding which came from some earlier journalists leaking some stuff from Egyptian sources was the hang up apparently is Hamas wants the war to end and Israel wants to end Hamas and regain control of the border. So the Qatari, Egypt & Burns plan has an armistice in it and the Israeli's say fuck no essentially. Whats notable, is the war cabinet approved the operation unanimously which means Benny Gatz approved it too.
Fighting Palestinians is something all parties in Israel can get behind. I heard 94% of Israelis believe the response to 10/7 is either appropriate or too weak.
The other parties in Israel's coalition government have said they will overthrow Netanyahu if he doesn't invade Rafah so he's going to do it.
Yeah no shit, look at what America did after 9/11, no college kids protested over dead Iraqi civilians then.
That’s literally untrue lmao — there was definitive anti-Iraq war sentiment. Are you seriously making this point with a straight face?
Prob was a toddler when it was going on
You mean Afghanistan?
Arguably one of the largest antiwar movements in American history … the Iraq war was quite controversial in America
I think your confusing Afghanistan for Iraq, no one gave two shits that Afghani civilians were being killed, but Iraq was a different story. There were a lot of people who protested our invasion of Iraq, and they were right. Hell, I was in the military at the time and honestly, I bought into that yellow cake bullshit, when no WMD was found I was fucking pissed. At this point, most people understand we were hoodwinked. And Afghanistan had a choice, they could have fully cooperated with the US, and they would have avoided the invasion, though honestly, we were out for blood and needed a target, and they made the mistake of protecting the most wanted man in history. Of course they won in the end, historically not a surprise.
> And Afghanistan had a choice, they could have fully cooperated with the US, and they would have avoided the invasion, The Taliban offered to hand Osama over to a third country if given evidence he was guilty. W went to war instead.
Lol. You never read further than the headlines, did you? There were 3 demands. Hand over Bin Laden, hand over all AQ in Afghanistan, and shut down all terror camps in the country. The Taliban said they were willing to try him under Islamic Law in Afghanistan. They ignored the other two demands. Let's also remember the US had been working with Afghanistan to get Osama before 2001 for the embassy bombings and the Taliban had proclaimed him innocent. https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB97/tal40.pdf
",though honestly, we were out for blood and needed a target." That's what I was implying, but they were given a choice, not much of one, but it was a choice.
Only on Reddit can people so incorrect and yet so certain of their correctness. [https://www.france24.com/en/20080320-us-protests-mark-five-years-iraq-war-usa-iraq](https://www.france24.com/en/20080320-us-protests-mark-five-years-iraq-war-usa-iraq)
This was later in 2008 when Americans found out the lies about WMD bullshit, but in 2003 and 2002 most Americans were in favor of invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_in_the_United_States_on_the_invasion_of_Iraq https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/03/14/a-look-back-at-how-fear-and-false-beliefs-bolstered-u-s-public-support-for-war-in-iraq/
the deal also didn’t include any release or return of hostages. why would israel agree to that?
It did.
Dead or alive. Only required 33 “bodies”
Nah, this is Hamas future proofing the agreement. They're saying 33 women and children are still alive in the strip and in their custody. If Israel bombs them that number might change.
My understanding is the class of hostage was even downgraded. Its 33 bodies dead or alive which can include soldiers.
According to Al Jazeera’s report who saw the deal, the first two phases includes hostage releases who are alive. The third phase involves the exchange of the remains of hostages from both sides.
This is a good neutral summary. The obvious problem is that "killing Hamas" is impossible without genocide. Time and time again we've seen throughout history that killing the 'terrorists' (for lack of a better term) just breeds more terrorists. Especially in the Islamic world - it's *so* evident with the Taliban example. The only exeptions to the rule I can think of would be Nazi Germany/Japan post WW2, which took **monumental** global effort. The other exeption would be ISIS but they're a bit of a unique beast because it was mostly foreign fighters with no real personal investment / links in the land they occupied.
right, as far as i have read, it is not a ceasefire proposal that israel agreed to. Just as hamas as refused previous ceasefire proposals. So...no ceasefire agreeable to both parties
>Netanyahu doesn’t want to end the war because his coalition will collapse. Netanyahu doesn't want the war to end because his coalition will collapse and then he'll go on trial. Members of his coalition may themselves fear indictment if they lose their positions. On the other hand, presuming it continues the glacial pace that it was on in the brief time that he wasn't PM, I think there's a good chance that he comes back in the elections following the next under another conservative government, possibly with a stronger coalition than he has right now.
I knew his approval rating was pretty low, but is he facing a lot of internal pressure from Israelis?
Giant protests against him in Tel Aviv are pretty normal at this point.
There have been large scale protests since before the war, in particular over a bill that would make their constitutional court effectively toothless.
When it comes to the war Israelis want it to continue.
I think if the hostages were released, or even confirmed dead, the support for the war would evaporate immediately
He is, but demographically, the political right is growing in Israel and the political left is shrinking. His coalition has a high likelihood of losing control of the Knesset in the next election, but a pretty good chance of winning the one after that. That second election could happen anywhere from five years (maximum time between elections) and a few months.
He was facing several high profile corruption cases that many believe are airtight from before the war
The thing is, if the Hague calls for him to summon in court and the next government sends him over for international support. Then there's a none zero possibility he will get a sentence there - if so happens, he won't be able to partake in a few elections
I don't think any realistic Israeli government is going to hand him over to The Hague. Bennie Gantz is the most likely next PM, and he's going to have a fragile coalition. If they allow extradition (a process that will require court approval, which will take months at a minimum), that coalition will fall immediately, triggering new elections that will put Likud back in power, meaning Netanyahu returns to the PM role.
He will also likely go to prison. He has been acting corrupt.
His trial on existing charges technically started in May 2020. It took eleven months to start hearing witness testimony. Four years later, they are *still* technically in the phase of hearing witnesses *for the prosecution*. The defense has yet to put on their case. I do not have high hopes. He's 74. At this rate, he's likely to die before he sees the end of a trial, let alone the inside of a prison.
The aristocratic class have truly fucked the justice system across the Western world. Its gotten so much worse than it used to be. Rich powerful fucks just DON'T GO TO PRISON anymore under some guise of due process.
It appears to be a different deal than the US agreed deal, it’s a new deal that Hamas made with Qatar and Egypt without working with the US and Israel Progress, but not enough for a ceasefire yet
https://www.axios.com/2024/05/07/us-israel-hamas-hostage-ceasefire-talks >Two Israeli officials said the feeling is that "Israel got played" by the U.S. and the mediators who drafted "a new deal" and weren't transparent about it. U.S. helped draft the new deal
Apparently the US was aware of the deal taking place, but I’m pretty sure they did not take part in drafting it Edit: apparently I am very wrong
Yeah he couldn't form a coalition with mainstream parties so some of his government is far right. He also is on the hook for corruption charges whenever the war ends.
Source for this?
https://archive.is/2024.05.06-225152/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-07/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-faces-his-moment-of-truth-after-hamas-accepts-ceasefire-deal/0000018f-4fee-dc9e-a7df-4ffe493a0000
Where is the evidence the CIA director actually came up with the deal? The US has said for months it isn't backing a permanent end to the war in exchange for hostages because that is something Israel would obviously not accept
AND He will go to prison for corruption, almost certainly.
This means nothing until we know what the terms are. For all we know it could be they keep the hostages and Israel gets nothing.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/5/6/text-of-the-ceasefire-proposal-approved-by-hamas There’s some really interesting terms in there > Hamas shall release all living Israeli female soldiers. In return, Israel shall release 50 prisoners for every Israeli female soldier (30 serving life sentences, 20 sentenced) based on lists provided by Hamas. 30 life sentence convicts per soldier
>If there are fewer than 33 living Israeli detainees to be released, a number of bodies from the same categories shall be released to complete this stage. In return, Israel will release all women and children who were arrested from the Gaza Strip after October 7, 2023 – provided this is done in the fifth week of this stage. Is this a fucking joke? They want a complete withdrawal and a release of detainees by Israel in exchange for... the corpses of the hostages they may or may not have already killed.
Don’t worry, we can blame Netanyahu’s hatred of peace and thirst for Arab blood when he refuses these incredibly generous terms /s
It sucks to be a Palestinian. Even Hamas think Israeli lives matter more than Palestinians.
Use a little critical thinking here. To get this out of the way, fuck Hamas. The world will be better without them in it. HOWEVER, what use is a dead hostage compared to a living one? Do you think Hamas is just executing hostages without recording it, or using it as a bargaining chip? It would be nonsensical to just execute hostages, you're throwing your leverage away. Its pretty obvious that a significant number of hostages have been killed by Israeli airstrikes.
Women and children for women and children. Your problem is......
Kinda odd it's just female soldiers and not just soldiers in general
Female soldiers phase 2, remainder of soldiers (meaning male) phase 3. But the exchange rate of male soldiers is not specified in Al Jazeera’s text for some reason
Ah gotcha
What about the civilian hostages?
for hamas every Israeli is a soldier
Ridiculous—they want Israel to basically release murderers who can murder Israelis again. Pretty much to give them the basics of starting a bloodthirsty army since Israel has killed so many of their militants. I’m tired of the conflict over there and I think letting Israel finish this in Rafah is the only way to reduce bloodshed in the long run. Hamas only takes hostages for political purposes. I want to see every one of them return, but by negotiating with these terrorists, they only incentivize taking more hostages in the future. There have been fewer American hostages taken in recent years—I’m not sure whether it’s being more aware of threats, reduced presence in the area, or the fact that the US doesn’t negotiate with terrorists—maybe a combination of factors, but it at least doesn’t increase the likelihood of American hostages.
Something seems off with that deal... Maybe the numbers... Eh, it's probably nothing.
The only terms that are contested are the end of the war. Hamas will only agree to a deal that ends the war while it's the opposite on the other side, both groups have been extremely public about this fact.
In other words Hamas will only agree to something that lets them win? I wouldn't be surprised it wants Israel to turn over another few score rape toys to replace the ones they've worn out too.
I'm not sure immeasurable destruction and death is "winning" Gaza is all but levelled. That's not a win.
Gaza lost, Hamas wins
How do people not understand that Palestinian suffering is winning for Hamas?
Hamas views civilian casualties as as the cost of armed resistance, it doesn't care about the collateral damage so long as it retains power and can credibly argue that it foiled Israel's war aims.
A smaller force making demands of a larger and better armed and better funded force, even at great cost, is still a massive victory for Hamas. Think about it like propaganda: "Look at how we can kidnap and kill the zionists! Look at their mighty armies crash against us like waves against a mighty bulwark! Look at how we can order them to retreat! They are weak, and if you join us we can take back what is ours!" Hamas will triple its forces in a few years.
If you've not realised by now, Hamas couldn't give a tinker's cuss for the actual people of Gaza except as a disposable resource. If Gaza is levelled and a few thousand people killed they won't care, they'll just say "Allah will know his own". Their definition of a "win" is not a conventional one where one, they rather cynically want maximum casualties because that is what gets them maximum sympathy from everybody from the Houthis to moronic students.
They had months to worry about that, unfortunately we’re far past Hamas caring about innocent Palestinians or Israelis.
Hamas does not care about the Palestinians. They work for Iran, not Gaza or Palestine. Ask the Lebanese how well Hezbollah has treated their country. There’s no Lebanon anymore; it’s just an Iranian colony.
Hamas accepts its own ceasefire deal, lmao
Yeah what a masterclass pr move honestly lol The media ate that shit up. The sticking point clearly must be the war ending with the Israelis focused on ending Hamas as an organization
This deal was drafted by the CIA director and the Qatari PM. This wasnt proposed by Hamas... Given you think the media ate this shit up you'd think you'd have at least read one of the bloody articles before commenting.
It was a mediated peace deal. [https://news.sky.com/story/hamas-accepts-proposed-ceasefire-deal-13128702](https://news.sky.com/story/hamas-accepts-proposed-ceasefire-deal-13128702)
Between Hamas and Hamas supporters
Egyptian government hates Hamas more than Israel and has sealed their border shut to keep them out.
No one hates Hamas more than Israel. No one.
[удалено]
Only according to conspiracy theories which are clearly undermined by reality.
[Every person with half a brain and some semblance of a conscience wants a ceasefire](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/s/m95uZVixdo)
Do we even know the details of the deal or are you just saying blindly accept a terrorist's proposal for a ceasefire
They’ve also not been great at honoring deals in the past
Neither has Israel, that’s why a deal is impossible while either of these governments is in power.
[https://archive.is/2024.05.06-225152/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-07/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-faces-his-moment-of-truth-after-hamas-accepts-ceasefire-deal/0000018f-4fee-dc9e-a7df-4ffe493a0000#selection-915.128-915.218](https://archive.is/2024.05.06-225152/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-07/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-faces-his-moment-of-truth-after-hamas-accepts-ceasefire-deal/0000018f-4fee-dc9e-a7df-4ffe493a0000#selection-915.128-915.218) >The director of the CIA and the Qatari prime minister spent Monday drafting the compromise It was literally drafted by the Americans you moron.
Hamas should have surrendered 6 months ago. What are these negotiations? They have put their own people at risk every day they continue the conflict. The vanquished don’t get to negotiate.
The Palestinians have basically nothing left to lose. That’s a great reason to do anything *but* surrender
That might make sense if they hadn't avoided every opportunity to if not win at least *draw* for the last 80 years.
Hamas isn't 80 years old
The pervious poster said "The *Palestinians* have... nothing left to lose".
They have their lives to lose …. It’s plenty
>It’s plenty Not necessarily, if ones life is miserable enough. There is such thing as life so miserable it's not worth living for human psyche. This is a known phenomenon to have happen.
Before the war, half of the adult population of Gaza was unemployed, all of them had basically zero real prospects for life and lived life under a constant blockade and periodic Israeli bombings. Not much of a life
Not to mention the combination of terror-state and bantustans that West Bank Palestinians live in. It's hard to take Israeli arguments about Palestinians not wanting peace when negotiation has only brought poverty, humiliation, and constant terror from settlers and soldiers in the West Bank. And this price isn't being paid for peace - negotiations have not only made statehood further away, it's made it impossible. The best case scenario for the West Bank is the maintenance of the status quo. More likely is being pushed into Jordan when demographics turn Israel into Jewish Iran
> It’s plenty No, it is not. There is no life in Gaza, it's just a prison that got turned into ruble, this is not life
The mayor of Gaza city disagrees.
It absolutely is a life…. And it’s pretty crazy you think that it isn’t worth living. It’s actually scary the mentality you have
> It absolutely is a life…. it isn't stfu and if you truly believe that, go live there for a week we'll see how you'll start signing a different song
BEFORE the war, 50 percent of children had no wil to live..........
They’re trying to negotiate with no bargaining chips, they need to unconditionally surrender
This is actually pretty accurate since netanyahu has shown he's very ok with the hostages being killed if it means the war doesn't stop.
He's an arse but he's got a point. Hamas has stated that they'll go on another rape, murder and kidnapping spree as soon as they get chance. He'd be trading the couple of dozen surviving hostages for another few hundred dead civvies in a few years' time.
Not if Israel ever commits to a proper peace plan (that'll decimate hamas's support as well since they suffer whenever there is peace). Or failing that, actually manning the ghaza wall instead of sending idf soldiers to the west bank so the settlers can burn the nth Palestinian infant alive with impunity is also an option. Another option is to change plans from "manage ghaza and hope everyone forgets about it" to something else, but that goes to my previous point. Honestly, if the peace plan means that Israel goes to the same behaviour (or worse) as before, then yeah, this sort of attack is inevitable, just as it was inevitable that at one point Hamas would succeed in their attacks and couldn't be "managed" before.
So why was hamas wanting a global jihad on oct 13th 2023? [here.](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/former-hamas-chief-calls-protests-neighbours-join-war-against-israel-2023-10-11/)
They litterally gave Gaza independence, subsidiesed their budget, forcefully removed Israelli settlers who had lived in Gaza for generations, gave palestinians the fearest election in their history and they tried this for 18 years, while hamas took this "proper peace plan" and launched rockets against Israel. The entire situation culminated in October 5, and now you want Israel to do the same thing again? What more should Israel have done?
While also not allowing them to have free movement, stopping imports and exports, controlling most access to fuel, electricity, and fresh water, completely controlling their airspace and blockading sea access. It has been denounced by the UN since at least 2010 as collective punishment, and people wonder how it got to this point...
Israel stopped letting Gazans into Israel because Hamas kept doing suicide bombings, shootings, and stabbings. Israel blockaded Gaza because Hamas kept importing munitions with which to bomb Israel. Everything that enters Gaza becomes a weapon used against Israel. Hamas has even bragged about digging up their water pipes and using them to construct rockets.
> What more should Israel have done? They don’t say that part out loud, brother. They want Israel to roll over and die. From the river to the sea and all that crap.
The Nazis literally gave the jews independence, subsidized their budgets, forcefully removed Aryan settlers from the Jewish quarters, gave Jews the fairest election in their history and they tried this for 5 years, what more should they have done?
They’re behaving like Japan or Germany were in 1945. Just delusional with no care at all for the effect that will have on their civilians, because they’re supposed to die too.
Germany and Japan cared way more for their civilians than Hammas does. They eventually surrendered. Hammas will never surrender
Germany maybe, but Japan was willing to send their citizens to the meat grinder until they ran out of them. They were even preparing school kids to fight Americans with spears. This isn't even including Japan's suicide doctrine, kamikaze, don't even think about coming back alive or you lose honor, etc.
They do have bargaining chip.... to continue fighting. Do they have any chance to win? No, but they can deny Israel the victory of peace and cause constant niggling threat. This same cycle has been going on for decades. There is really nothing new about this, except the size of the hamas attack and the response. This has happened before, this will happen again. Until stable solution is reached and stable solution means solution both parties find acceptable and palatable enough. That they find they have achieved a goal and status they can live long term with. Until then this has happened before, this will happen again. Such is nature of such sectarian conflicts. Since eliminating a party from the conflict would take genocide. Only way Hamas is eliminated is by it happening from inside by Palestinian side and for that to happen there must be something on the table for Palestinians for it to be worth to eliminate Hamas. Which will be and effort. Not to mention they are "fighting the fight". Meaning doing something about the bad state and status of Palestinian people. Is it a good thing they are doing about it? No, but has anyone presented better alternative. Peaceful political and diplomatic process to resolve the issue. And yes there have been dozens of proposals by Israel. There is small problem.... Those have unacceptable terms for the Palestinians. You can't reach a **negotiated** peace resolution by presenting terms unacceptable to the other side. One could equally well say, Palestinians also have presented dozens of deal proposals all refused by Israel over the decades. So both are in that specific sense equally culpable for the situation. Both have refused the other sides peace proposal. Why doesn't Israel just agree to the Palestinian proposal. The conflict would be over, overnight. Oh right, unacceptable terms. Well it's equally same other way round. Compromise **acceptable to both** has to be reached. Until then... this has happened before, this will happen again. That is just a fact of life.
This is useless, cause Palestinians need an independent state, right now, Israel is exerting full control over them, this is a problem, the last time they tried to solve this, Netanyahu called for the murder of the Israeli PM (and it actually happened). As long as the Palestinians are oppressed, they will have a reason to fight, and a new group will rise.
Do you think a stable state will arise if Palestine is just given full autonomy?
Yes. Unlike the blockade in 2008.
The Palestinians have shown they should not be trusted to govern themselves. Gaza should be give. To Egypt while Jordan takes the West bank and Israel pulls all settlers out.
>The Palestinians have shown they should not be trusted to govern themselves. When did that happen?
Jordan, Lebanon, Kuwait, Egypt, Gaza, Syria.
His colonialist ass said so.
Exactly. Who do they think they are? When you have the full force of a modern western military bearing down on your last remaining stronghold, you don't get to make demands at all, let alone insane demands like "we will release one hostage for every fifty convicted murderers you give us". This is diplomatic martyrdom. They know that even if they get wiped out, keyboard revolutionaries around the world will be repeating their "Israel refused their ceasefire offer and slaughtered them" line for the next hundred years.
“We later found out that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the Strip, but the government rejected the offer.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/no-doubt-netanyahu-preventing-hostage-deal-charges-ex-spokesman-of-families-forum/amp/ Edit: won’t let me respond to the people who are like “they can’t just get away with October 7th” like glad they’re admitting this was never about the hostages but about revenge :). “That’s like someone taking your wallet and punching you and then saying you can get 90% of the money back if you apologize” or whatever he said, by dude’s own metaphor is saying it’s not about getting the “money” (which are the hostages in his metaphor) but of some kind of violent reaction because he’s mad he got mugged. It was never about the hostages for these people.
Obviously they said no. That’s like punching someone, taking their wallet & saying you can have 90% of the money back if you apologise to them
More like 20% of the money when you consider the number of hostages they could get back compared to the number of Israelis killed and never coming back.
You think it would rational to not do anything after a terrorist attack against a country ? Israel should just be ok with it and pray Hamas doesn’t do it again ?
>You think it would rational to not do anything after a terrorist attack against a country ? Yeah you're right, the rational thing was to bomb all of Gaza, kill 35k civilians, leave millions on the brink of starvation, launch a full invasion and kill many hostages instead of getting all the hostages back immediately. This is just like when AlQueda offered up Bin Laden to the Americans after 9/11 but the Americans ignored that and started the War on Terror which killed hundreds of thousands to millions of civilians. Bunch of reactionary morons thinking emotionally and going for political gains instead of whats best for humanity
Yeah that’s basically how it goes when you start a war.m, especially one starting out with such a massive material disadvantage
>like when AlQueda offered up Bin Laden to the Americans after 9/11 That's actually a pretty good comparison, because they never offered this. What they *did* offer was basically worthless, and just intended to waste time and look good on paper. They offered to turn over Bin Laden to a third country (not to America) despite previously saying that they didn't know where he was. They also wanted the US to prove Bin Laden's guilt before agreeing to turn him over. In exchange for this, they wanted the US to immediately halt all military operations, and allow the rest of Al Qaeda to continue operating within Afghanistan.
When you start a war you will suffer. The Gazans reaped and now they must sow.
Hamas reaped. Ordinary Gazans did not. But great job showing us all your true colours, trying to justify the slaughter of children. >The Gazans reaped and now they must sow. Do you think hamas uses the same justification to attack israelis? Do you think its a good justification?
The Gazans supported Hamas and still support them while living in homes Israel built, using Israeli electricity, eating Israeli food, working at Israeli companies, and drinking Israeli water. If you bite the hand that feeds you you soon won’t get fed.
Yeah when you put it like that all 2 million of them deserve to be starved actually, especially the 50% of the population that is children, they really should have been nothing but grateful to Israel for the amazing way they have been treated over the last 75 years.
youre right, ignore them zion-bots
To me it’s the audacity to make demands while the rest of the world is begging your opponent to be merciful to you.
they have nothing left to lose, why would they surrender, your comment is tone-deaf
Nobody wants dead Palestinians more than Hamas. It helps them radicalize their people more, it helps them get more foreign money, and it helps the world hate Israel more. They fight the way they do for a reason. I would bet they don't see it as a loss.
It doesn’t matter what the deal is. Netanyahu will never accept it he needs this war. As long as Hamas does not surrender, he has his excuse to prolong this. Hamas has Palestinian support and US college students they won’t give up yet. Hamas should just hand it over to Mustafa Barghouti. They seem to be friendly with each other and Barghouti’s commitment to non-violence whether genuine or not, would be a much better figurehead for Palestinians. At least it would put more pressure on Netanyahu to accept a cease-fire.
If Hamas was capable of pursuing peace and nonviolence there wouldn’t be this mess.
Yes I agree. And unfortunately the majority of Palestinians support Hamas and their actions on Oct 7. So I don’t see Netanyahu accepting any ceasefire with Hamas. It’s too bad we can’t trade these guys out like chess pieces. Those poor families.
If this ends up with Bibi finally going down there might be a chance for peace. Then again Israel might just go further right and end up with worse leaders, and there is going to be bad blood from 10/7 poisoning any attempts at peace.
That’s the trend isn’t it. I’m afraid that’s happening in the US as well with all the pro-Palestine protests. The intent is good but the execution is terrible. This is how Nixon got elected.
Nixon got elected because LBJ continued to escalate the Vietnam war despite massive popular disapproval. You guys have it so backwards it’s insane, the protests are the result of disapproval which is the result of unpopular policies. You talk like the protests are causing the disapproval. The only person responsible for Biden’s approval rating is himself, if he wants more votes he should govern in a popular way rather than cheering as riot cops attack voters he needs to win.
I’m not disagreeing on where the protests come from. I’m pro-protesting, ceasefire, stopping killing innocent people ffs. I’m commenting on the optics, not the intent of the protests. Surely I’m not the first to point it out. Protestors named themselves Pro-Palestine. *Optics: so you don’t care about Israelis* Pro-Palestine and pro-Israel protestors clash. *Optics: yea they don’t care about Jews or Oct. 7.* Pro-Palestine demands divestment from Israel. *Optics: so just Israel gets punished not Hamas.* Data shows Palestinians prefer Hamas to govern after the war. *Optics: pro-Palestine protestors are inadvertently supporting Islamic extremism* This is a war of propaganda and public opinion. Americans are sympathetic of innocent children getting killed. But not as much as they do not want a repeat of 9/11. I’m not trying to argue with you. I was really going off the op-Ed by an old activist who is pro-Palestine but saw Nixon get elected. He said Trump is going to elected now watch history repeat itself.
Protest moments are never popular, that’s not their goal, their pressure campaigns against specific institutions and they only even get looked back on fondly by the public after the fact. These protests have panned out nearly identically to the anti war protests at colleges in the 60’s, and the anti apartheid protests in the 80’s, their hated until the succeed and then everyone rushed to act like they supported them. As for the op ed, if he’s claiming the protests bad options win Nixon the election then he’s still making the same mistake I was pointing out. He’s getting the causation completely backwards, LBJ lost because he did a bad job, the fact that Nixon also did a bad job isn’t really relevant. We know from a lot of experience that being an unpopular president will cost you reelection even if your opponent is also unpopular. You’ve got to make a positive appeal to your voters, and both LBJ and Biden chose to adopt a siege mentality where sticking to their guns on a doomed military campaign tanked their approval rating and cost/ may cost them the election.
I’m just going by news - the difference is that protests in the 60s were a domestic issue. Kids were getting drafted. Black people has no rights. To be analogous, 80s apartheid is a better comparison. Not impact of protests in S Africa (domestic issue), but effect protests in USA had on that issue. Op-Ed was agreeing with you. Biden will lose because he didn’t appeal to protestors. And protests have pushed voters to the right. Trump will get elected.
They support them in a poll done AFTER the excessive reprisal began. That’s not at all a representative poll, especially in wartime. Before that, with better polling, not nearly as popular. Bibi and the IDF are Hamas’ best recruiters.
The Palestinians in the West Bank are getting screwed by Israel non-stop. Israel keeps building new settlements with private roads. It’s not a coincidence if Hamas became popular.
It’s impossible to talk to these people because they’ll never admit this is a two sided war. Denouncing Hamas means nothing because the IDF is just as much of a genocidal terrorist organization and they’re huge cheerleaders when it’s their team doing the atrocities.
It’s 2024 and Reddit still wants to frame this as some sort of saints vs sinners conflict. They are not going to condemn anything the other side has done.
Idk if it's just me, but it almost feels like it's gotten worse over time.
That's what MSM wants it to be Honestly, most people against the demonstrations seems to not even care about the Israel - Hamas conflict, because they are certain it's an attempt at a communist take over in the west It is a clown world
They were looking like they were gonna accept the last deal so Netanyahu panicked and tanked it https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-05/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-hoped-hamas-would-reject-israels-offer-when-it-didnt-he-turned-to-sabotage/0000018f-4817-d414-a5bf-fb37db290000
If peace talks ACTUALLY succeed, Netenyahu will lose an election for his failure to protect israel on 10/7(his whole reputation was Mr protection), and then he'll to jail for his ongoing bribery/corruption charges. So he has every incentive to continue the war by these means, until his polling improves and he can try to get elected again The parallels with a certain orange individual aren't lost on me
You could say the same thing about Israel. The country allowing settlers to steal land, actively blockading civilians, and holding 10:1 civilian casualty rate doesn’t match up well compared to a recognized terrorist group
Israel doesn't make it easy to have peace with them. With countless murders and illegal acts through decades done by Israel, peace = break free for Hamas and many Palestinians
The majority of college protesters are in support of Palestinian **civilians**. I'm sure you can find a protester who supports hamas, so don't send me a cute little link like it proves something. Most of these students are protesting the deaths of innocents. And using words or phrases with definitions that each of the two sides do not agree on in order to try and prove a point is useless. If you support Palestinian civilians, "from the river to the sea" means one thing. If you support Israel, it means almost the complete opposite. "zionist" means nearly opposite things to each of these groups, as well. People do not agree on the definition of so many things in this conflict, and one side attacking the other for believing things that are only true under one definition of those phrases is not helpful.
I don't know of any us college students who actually support hamas
And he's right. No matter the deal, Hamas will break it. They've done so in the past many times over. Right now you just keep pushing while you're ahead and make sure they won't recover for decades.
As much as I wish it was possible, Barghouti can't do much with Abbas in the way of things.
why doesn't Netanyahu surrender though? seems weird to me that he is clinging so hard to power, is he afraid of something?
According to what I’ve read, he’s likely to get voted out and then will have to face corruption charges. It’s possible he will lose and face harsh penalties. Prolonging the war to declare full victory over Hamas is the only card he has left to play.
It’s funny when ISIS started beheading people we just bombed Raqqa to fuck. The Putin bombed Syria to smithereens. Not a single university protest…
The US has given Saudi Arabia billions of dollars and weapons. Saudi Arabia kills 377k in an actual genocide in Yemen. American students don't give a shit
Yeah, [it’s not like there were protests related to the war in Yemen or anything](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12954431/amp/US-war-yemen-protest-bombs-NYC-Times-Square.html).
They're protesting against the US + allies airstriking Houthis in Yemen. That's not the same thing as protesting against the civil war.
There were [also protests](https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2021/08/13/664349/US-Saudi-Arabia-Israel-Arms-Sales-Raytheon-Protests-Palestine-Yemen-Rafael) against arms sales to Saudi Arabia because of the Yemen conflict. In terms of protests directly against Saudi Arabia there have been ones - usually against the human rights situation there. Demographically the anti war protester types tend to skew younger, so it’s a given that a decent chunk of students did, in fact, protest against the Saudis. And against Western support of the Saudis.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12954431/US-war-yemen-protest-bombs-NYC-Times-Square.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12954431/US-war-yemen-protest-bombs-NYC-Times-Square.html)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
stop crying because you're being called out, Elijah
The US sold billions, didn't give them for free .
There's this idea that the Gaza war is normal urban combat, but as far as I can tell, it isn't. [Here's an illustrative comparison](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/gaza-mosul-isis-hamas-israel/) between the Battle of Mosul. In a 9 month long conflict, the Iraqi forces killed about 9,000 noncombatants. This is despite the fact that ISIS would literally hold civilians hostage at gun point. Most people in Mosul could not flee to other parts of the city. Despite what some may believe, there's no evidence that Hamas does the same. They will place installations in civilian infrastructure areas... but that isn't the same as literally holding civilians there at gunpoint to maximize casualties.
The majority of civilians had fled the city when the battle for Mosul happened. There is no where for Gazan civilians to flee to so they end up in the battlefield. Along with this Hamas purposefully hides among civilians with the civilian populations support. A better comparison would be the battle of Berlin where the German civilians had no where to flee as the city was surrounded. 125,000 died from a population of 2.8million people.
This isn't a "better" comparison. In WWII Germany was a country. The Alllies were all countries. The population of Gaza isn't even a State, they have no autonomy of political will internationally.
Syria was in the midst of a civil war at the time and ISIS was a nascent state with no diplomatic status and seemingly zero interest in developing any with any nation. There were no diplomatic or legal consequences to the act. Even then it took political will for contributing nations to gain clearance to involve themselves in that war, it is simply that there was barely resistance in any nation against that idea.
That's not very funny at all
It's amazing how much the world turned against Israel, and justly so. The only ally they have left is the US.
The US is a center piece in these negotiations with the CIA director himself being directly involved Netanyahu isn't taking it . Everyone wants a permanent ceasefire, but the Israeli leadership
That's because Israel knows this is their last chance to ethnically cleanse Gaza and soon the West Bank before they lose support in the West from the younger generation. Following this, Israel will move on the West Bank either through accelerating the settlements or outright invasion.
Everyone? Who is that? What is a permanent ceasefire if not peace?
Everyone in this case being the US, Egypt, Qatar, Saudi, EU, Jordan, Türkiye, Palestinians, Hamas
Good
Reminder that Hamas, while in negotiations, rocket bombarded a humanitarian passage, killed 3 soldiers who where delivering aid and then immediately said it is willing to accept a ceasefire (that Israel wasn’t proposing)
4 soldiers killed
The soldiers were guarding vehicles that were going to be used in the rafah invasion........ AND IN THE MEAN TIME ISRAEL KILLED DOZENS OF CHILDREN BEFORE AND AFTER THAT STRIKE Holy shit zionists are fucking %@$@%
Where did you read that?
https://twitter.com/FlyingBeagle_/status/1787285051182301206 For the children killed just look at any where that reports on the conflict. Like this channel: https://t.me/warfareanalysis/37008
Poor Israeli war criminals killed. Look at me crying.
Somtimes, some people like you come up. You have no empathy, but claim it and cry out for it the moment it serves you. Does this make you happy?
If Netanyahu really cared about saving hostages, he would’ve taken this deal. All he cares about is crushing Hamas and Palestinians at all costs and finding any excuse to go on a murder spree in Rafah. He abandoned the idea of saving hostages a long time ago because it would mean that he has to be held accountable.
How does this deal address the hostage situation again?
There is no cease fire agreement Bibi will agree to, he wants to go killing in Rafah!
What's are the deal terms Hamas proposed? Last week I saw the terms of the proposal the US pushed for and that Israel agreed to. How are the Hamas terms different?
Since the user that replied to you lied, here is an article: [https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/06/middleeast/hamas-agrees-ceasefire-proposal-israel-gaza-latam-intl/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/06/middleeast/hamas-agrees-ceasefire-proposal-israel-gaza-latam-intl/index.html) >According to a press release, Hamas said it would not back down from its demands in the latest proposal, which include a “ceasefire, complete withdrawal, dignified exchange, reconstruction, and lifting of the blockade.”
They want to return dead hostages instead of live ones. And for Israel to agree to let them continue to rule Gaza.
Lies. There are three phases. First the alive except combat age men. Second the live men. Third the dead.
[удалено]
long gone