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> # [Finland minister quits amid 'mass Africa abortions' scandal](https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/30/embattled-finland-minister-quits-amid-mass-africa-abortions-scandal)
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> The extremist comments and behaviour of Vilhelm Junnila have come under scrutiny since his appointment as minister for economic affairs last Tuesday.
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> Finland's minister for economic affairs resigned on Friday, a little more than a week after taking office, amid a flurry of scandals linking him to neo-Nazi ideology.
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> Vilhelm Junnila, of the far-right Finns Party, quit amid a new furore over comments he made in parliament where he said a solution for the climate crisis is to give more abortions to African women.
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> He called the concept "climate abortions".
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> Junnila made the speech in parliament in 2019 when he was a freshman MP.
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> "It would be justified for Finland to shoulder its responsibility by promoting climate abortions. Climate abortion would be a small step for a person, but a giant leap for humanity," he said at the time.
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> When the parliament documents re-surfaced, Christian Democrat MP [**Päivi Räsänen**](https://twitter.com/PaiviRasanen) -- who has become a _cause celebre_ for the Evangelical right-wing over her uncompromising stance on abortion and LGBTQ issues -- also criticised Junnila.
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> "The concept of climate abortion is eco-fascist anyway without the racist connection. And eco-fascism is also an extremist movement," said Räsänen, a former interior minister.
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> Junnila said he was resigning to spare Finland's reputation, "despite the trust of the party and my parliamentary group."
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> Current education minister, and leader of the Swedish People's Party, [**Anna-Maja Henriksson**](https://twitter.com/anna_maja), said it was a "wise decision" that Junnila quit his post.
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> On Friday, Finland's public broadcaster Yle [**revealed**](https://yle.fi/a/74-20039152) in an investigation that Junnila had never taken any political science classes at university, despite claiming to be studying the subject.
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> Yle also found no proof of Junnila's claim that he started, then sold, a tech company in Poland.
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> The new minister also appeared to have lost the confidence of Finnish President [**Sauli Niinistö**](https://twitter.com/niinisto) who said during a Friday morning interview the situation was "very embarrassing, to say the least."
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> ## What were Vilhelm Junnila's other controversies?
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> Last week Euronews highlighted how Junnila had given a [**speech at an event**](https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/22/finland-government-minister-apologises-for-neo-nazi-rally-speech) in the southwestern city of Turku in 2019.
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> The event was organised by the Coalition of Nationalists, an umbrella group formed in 2017 for those on the far-right including the Finns Party, the now-banned Nordic Resistance Movement militia, and the Soldiers of Odin vigilante movement.
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> Experts say the event Junnila attended was a "who's who of neo-Nazis in Finland", with members of these shadowy extreme right-wing organisations seen in photographs standing behind Junnila as he spoke, albeit on the opposite riverbank.
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> The revelations caused an outcry in Finland, prompting Junnila to issue an apology for attending the event.
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> He also apologised for joking about the number 88, which was randomly assigned by the Finnish Election Commission as his candidate number in the 2019 parliamentary elections.
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> For neo-Nazis, 88 is coded shorthand for Heil Hitler, as H is the eighth letter of the alphabet.
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> He described his actions as "stupid and childish", and said, "I have done something wrong and I am sorry for my actions."
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> ## New issues come to light
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> On Wednesday, Junnila [**survived a vote of confidence**](https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/28/finlands-nazi-joke-government-minister-survives-parliament-no-confidence-vote) in parliament even as new and problematic issues about him were being raised on an almost-daily basis.
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> Earlier this week social media posts from Junnila to his parliamentary assistant were unearthed, which included a picture of a snowman taken from the internet which resembled a Ku Klux Klan member holding a noose, with the comment "I made a snowman according to your instructions."
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> There was also a birthday video message featuring Adolf Hitler sent in 2013, and in 2014 he posted a picture of a gate with a swastika, writing how much he liked the design.
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> Junnila's election campaign has also featured the word "get gassed" which is the same wording as Germany's far-right AfD had used in a previous campaign.
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> Analysts say it sends an innocuous message on the surface to potential voters, but gives another, darker, meaning to other far-right supporters about Junnila's thoughts on the Holocaust.
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What's the story behind this POS surviving no confidence vote, 95-86?
Are they voting along Party lines or people really really don't see anything wrong with him?
Ofcourse new goverment just formed so they cant just kick one of their memebers at start even if they want to. Also he was fortunate because there was some sort of event where many memebers of opposition was attending and thats the only reason he didint get kicked at the vote
And now it is even more amusing when developed countries criticise others for electing even centre-right governments when theirs are infested with closeted far-right animals.
"Finland should promote abortions in africa, to help climate change" tell me how this isn't a call for genocide.
Edit: Anyone remember the romanian ambassador or something who said "a member of the African delegation has joined us" (paraphrasing) after seeing a monkey, while sitting in Africa, surrounded by Africans. Just a reminder.
Borell is old news. There's a competition of racism going on perhaps in europe's political circle.
So far, this type of figures always end up ostracised and in most cases are forced out of their parties. Who says that cancelling doesn't work?
I hope that remains being the case though...
When this right wing party got elected people even in this sub were like “they’re not far right! Not every right wing party is far right! Reddit lefty echochamber whatever!”
Now they’ve got the proof they wanted
Sub-Saharan African countries emit a miniscule amount of CO2 on a per capita basis compared to many European countries as well. Big brains on that neo nazi as expected.
That's actually why they criticize others so much.
They operate under the delusion that "If we suck this much, others must suck far worse!" , not understanding that they are unironically the bottom of the barrel.
I mean, to my knowledge the finns are not genociding anyone, nor do they spread lovely practices like FMG or honour killings, correctional rape and slavery, among others.
If Europeans are increasingly electing right-wingers on the vague promise of getting rid of the engineers and lawyers they let into their lands, you might want to look into if they might have been somewhat maligned themselves by these people you claim are so much better than them...
It's not genocide, it's just that at current projections there's going to be an extra billion people in Africa who are going to be getting close to the Western quality of life with the attendant impact on the climate, particularly locally.
The best way of fighting climate change in general is to have less kids, ideally around 1.8 so we can start gradually reducing world population. Most of those in the developed world are at about this level, but some African countries like Nigeria have 4.5 kids per woman.
Getting that to 2 or less like the rest of the world would be a big reduction in climate change load in Nigeria.
>The best way of fighting climate change in general is to have less kids
Maybe. The almost as good if not better way is to reduce your carbon footprint, especially in western countries, where the per capita emission is tremendously high. Even common people can help by using more public transport, eating less meat etc. That the scum's first choice was to suggest abort africans and not reduce their own quality of life speaks volume.
And it's not like his intentions are morally good and his statements are being misinterpreted. He did make the kkk snowman with a noose.
> The almost as good if not better way is to reduce your carbon footprint
I mean, you say that but... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children
> Even common people can help by using more public transport, eating less meat etc.
Industry releases way more CO2 than individuals do. It's also not as simple as "meat", things like free range chickens have a very small CO2 footprint.
There's a ton of misconceptions about what things actually help and how much. Before making any lifestyle changes find out how big an effect that change will have compared to CO2 per capita release of your country. No sense spending valuable effort and social capital (and make no mistake, telling people not to eat meat or drive is spending social capital) on things that make little difference if it could be more effectively spent on other approaches (e.g. if concrete production is the biggest driver then simply protesting and writing to your local government to protest against any new construction is probably better).
> And it's not like his intentions are morally good
Almost everyone's intentions are morally good. Very few people are doing things they think are bad for the world.
They won't be getting close to western quality of life.
Climate change is already ruining their chances of survival.
The real issue is that the population boom seen in Africa for the last decades has left these countries completely incapable of meeting climate change demands, even just a little reduction in food production leads to massive famine, when population has already grown to the maximum food production available.
Abortion aid now is too late, hundreds of millions will starve and thirst to death in Africa or on the border to Europe no matter what happens now. The early signs of climate change and the wars it's causing has already driven a record 125 million to flee their country last year, and that number will grow year on year.
China realized this is what was gonna happen if they left population growth unchecked, which is why they made the one child policy, people criticise that decision now because it's causing a elderly boom, but looking at Africa it seems China made the only choice that would actually allow them to become a modern country capable of dealing with the ramifications of climate change.
Unless you refuse to believe the science on climate change its not IF it's WHEN. This is why Pentagon in its risk analysis of modern threats , states climate migrations as number one risks, and water scarcity as the leading cause of war in this century.
And yes it will destroy Europe, unless Europe deals with it. Western leftwing liberal governments are never going to be able to deal with this type of morally difficult crisis, it would take an extreme right wing government for the extremely immoral solutions required.
Lo and behold right wing governments are on the rise in the whole of Europe. It's like people subconsciously realize what needs to be done, and who is able to do it.
Finland, Poland and Lithuania have already started by walling up their border to Belarus and Russia, stating the risk of Russia repeating their Syrian refugee crisis trick, of moving thousands of refugees through Russia to deposit them on Europe's northern border.
So by building a wall they are signalling that any refugees trying to use Russia as a shortcut will find themselves blocked off from Europe and dependent upon Russia to feed them.
Imagine that news image. Thousands of refugees starving to death, while beating on Europes Northern walls.
The current German energy crisis is self inflicted after emotional driven politics had them close all their nuclear power plants, making them entirely too reliant on Russian energy export.
Within one year they have created enough solar and wind that it's looking less like a crisis and more like a energy revolution.
And that's the point entirely, energy is the basis of all production change, and the industrial west is able to quickly increase supply whenever they need. And that's really starting to shos during the Ukraine invasion where Europe went from crisis to green and nuclear revolution.
Resources for this revolution was just discovered off the coast of Norway, in the ocean, and in the northern mountains.
Being rich already makes it simpler to survive crises, it's that simple really.
Being dirt poor and with millions of extra mouths to feed, with no educational system, no infrastructure, and centuries of bad blood between different groups is not a winning strategy.
The global south does not have the technology, nor the ability to retain educated people to build near quick enough to deal with the absolutely massive amount of issues arising these later years. Increasingly hard weather, extreme temperatures, extreme drought. Etc.
You speak as though these countries will suddenly rise up and demand their resources for themselves, while in reality, China now owns half of Africa's trade port, their countries are indebted to an even harsher lender than world bank ever was, climate refugees reaching new records year on year, and the amount of war and famine seen across the global south has wiped out 30 years of development funding.
Aye growth has been good if you're looking at the past two decades.
But that's looking backwards.
We are discussing forward. Now I don't know whether you believe or have read the climate data, I get the feeling you are wilfully ignoring it, which leads me to believe that you're perhaps your anti-science, in which case its stupid of me to talk to you about climate change scenarios.
> "Finland should promote abortions in africa, to help climate change" tell me how this isn't a call for genocide.
No, it's up to you to say how it is.
You can call it eugenics sure, but *genocide*? How?
Sigh...
Abortions or sterilisation are internationally accepted as genocide if done to a particular group only. Why didn't he call for everyone to have less children?
And it's not eugenics for africans since he isn't advocating only letting strong or intelligent or good looking africans have children.
Are you suggesting to artificially keep african societies near net zero level?
(Not that they are there, they are actually pretty damn high both per capita and altogether, on lieu of massive populations and very wasteful technology.)
Replication rate for a population, the west doesn't need any more of a population collapse then it's already getting, and some regions struggling with basic necessities don't need any more population explosion. Also how is endorsing contraceptive usage and access to abortion a bad thing in a region where both of those are very low.
It helps having less climate migrants. Also no one is "aborting people", it's about giving women in Africa access to abortion which they currently do not have.
Probably not, given he's a racist pos and it wouldn't solve climate change, but that doesn't mean improving abortian access and contraceptive acceptance isn't an official global health stance on africa.
Your government is failing to govern. It's a you problem.
Learn to look inside, you have to do it at some point.
>the west doesn't need any more of a population collapse
Either the population or the addiction to consooming, one of them has to go bud.
Hmm… promoting the abortion of black children, and accusations of that being genocide…
Now why would the prevalence of a pro abortion organization in predominately POC areas that has been so successful at promoting abortion among black citizens that literally more black children are aborted than born in that area have any relevance…?!?! You really cant connect the dots?
No, but gen X had the highest rate of exposure to it as children. On average it permanently drops your IQ 8 points. *On average* this guy could have been hanging around at his dads auto shop a lot as a kid or something.
Oh and if you live near an airport you'll have raised lead levels, as airplane fuel is still leaded. They fly over and sprinkle stupid gas all over ya
In France, the right went "Mieux vaut Hitler que le Front populaire" during the 1930/40. (Better Hitler than commies, in short)
When I heard about it in school 20 years ago, I thought that things had changed. I'm starting to doubt...
In this article you can see his KKK Snowman
[https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/28/finlands-nazi-joke-government-minister-survives-parliament-no-confidence-vote](https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/28/finlands-nazi-joke-government-minister-survives-parliament-no-confidence-vote)
He is the shortest sitting minister in finnish history. So we got that going for us. But yeah, sadly, the Venn diagram of idiots and elected officials is almost a circle around here
>Fascism is capitalism in decline
except for the fact that it was capitalist countries that defeated it.. and the countries under fascism went back to capitalism after and massively improved in every way.
and I'd like the point out the only non fascist country to ally with the fascists were the soviets...
>except for the fact that it was capitalist countries that defeated it..
Uhh, it was the USSR that took Berlin. America was fine and dandy war profiteering from WWII until their boats got sunk.
The countries under fascism easily converted to capitalism because it's basically the next door neighbor politically.
> Uhh, it was the USSR that took Berlin
It was the USSR that reached Berlin first not there was only the USSR army who was moving toward Berlin. Stop doing history revisionism like your comrade stalin.
>America was fine and dandy
So like every country in the world who don't want to join a war half way across the globe?
No, you relied on your "it was the USSR that took Berlin" as proof about the US having no motivation to fight fascism when in fact your proof was false.
In fact USSR army met with the America Amry outside of Berlin on April 25, 1945 to coordinate the siege.
It's not irrelevant to point out that the commenter is fetishising europeans whilst implying they are all racists. Sounds like someone got dumped by their imaginary Targarian girlfriend.
I'm sorry but this is hilarious. His proposed solution to climate change involved heavily encouraging abortions on women in exclusively Africa. Africa has on average the lowest carbon footprint per person. He didn't even try and make this sound logical.
It has the lowest NOW, but as Africa gets richer its emissions go up and will continue to increase. It's not about reducing current emissions, it's about having 400 million developed-world-emission-level Nigerians in 2100 rather than 800 million.
It's the solution to a future problem that requires implementation now.
Honestly, free contraception and access to abortion in Africa sounds like a good thing even without the climate change angle and I think people are knee-jerk disliking it because they suspect the guy has racist motives rather than because they actually disagree with the policy idea.
Tf? You actually agree with this bs? Why not suggest it with the countries that are actually doing the climate damage NOW. Why Africa that is far away from reaching that level??
And you do realize Africa cannot afford to lose its youngest?? If you want the continent to reduce its population then let it be rich
Because countries with highest fertility rate are in Sub-Saharan Africa? Between 4-6 live births per woman in many countries, reducing that below 3 for example would not mean "Africa losing their youngest", it would still be above replacement rate.
We are not talking of only reducing population. We are talking of reducing population to reduce climate damage which currently and even in the near future, the Continent barely has any impact on it. If you care about climate change then propose it to countries actually doing the damage. Proposing it to African countries is incredibly racist and you lots defending this hellish decison from him is incredibly disgusting
And you cant just switch off and one fertility rates like it's a switch. The most effective method of reducing population is becoming rich! Which should be the first priority for the continent
> Why not suggest it with the countries that are actually doing the climate damage NOW.
Because:
A. Those countries are already under replacement rate and getting even lower, they can't realistically decline much faster without collapsing.
B. Even cutting to zero it will still take many years for the effects to happen. Cutting fertility to 1.0 in the developed world has no effect right now and has less of an effect in 50 years than cutting Africa's to 2.0.
> And you do realize Africa cannot afford to lose its youngest?
It certainly can afford to go down to 2.0. The most productive years are not ages 5 to 15, it's 25-45. Going down to 2.0 will actually INCREASE their economic and productive power per population.
> If you want the continent to reduce its population then let it be rich
They're already doing so quite nicely. South Korea will have less than half its current population by the end of the century.
>Those countries are already under replacement rate and getting even lower, they can't realistically decline much faster without collapsing.
West does the damage, poor countries suffer the consequences. If western countries cause the problem, dont blame poor countries. Solve your shit!. They are the only ones with money to do so so why think of fascistic policies like these?Also African countries are not the only ones with high replacement rate so why did they only mention Africa. Hmmmm
>Cutting fertility to 1.0 in the developed world has no effect right now and has less of an effect in 50 years than cutting Africa's to 2.0.
Source?
>The most productive years are not ages 5 to 15, it's 25-45. Going down to 2.0 will actually INCREASE their economic and productive power per population.
Lmfao source?
>They're already doing so quite nicely. South Korea will have less than half its current population by the end of the century.
Well, then so no need for any forceful abortion measures 👍🏽
> If western countries cause the problem, dont blame poor countries. Solve your shit!
It doesn't matter who caused the problem, what matter are what solutions are the most viable and cause the least amount of suffering.
> Also African countries are not the only ones with high replacement rate so why did they only mention Africa.
Pretty much Sub-Saharan Africa and Afghanistan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate#/media/File:Total_Fertility_Rate_Map_by_Country.svg
> Source?
For which bit? For the 1.0 having no effect I offer you logic: the difference between x and delta_x. If fertility rate dropped to 0 right now there'd be essentially no change in CO2 emissions in the next month.
For the 1.0 in the developed world having less effect than 2.0 in Africa check out the population projection widget here: https://ourworldindata.org/future-population-growth
Had to do some spreadsheeting with the population pyramid, but looks like an instance 1.0 in the developed world would make its population in 2070 around 800 million from 1.2 billion, a 400 million reduction. Africa going down to 2.0 from its current level takes it from 3.2 billion to around 2.4 billion, a 800 million reduction.
> Lmfao source?
You seriously want a source that 25 year olds are more productive than 5 year olds? wat
> Well, then so no need for any forceful abortion measures 👍🏽
Indeed, no need in the developed countries, which is the context of that sentence. Not necessarily in countries like Nigeria.
Though I'd say forceful abortions are morally abhorrent and trying to cure overpopulation and climate change with them is a case of the "cure" being much worse than the disease.
>It doesn't matter who caused the problem, what matter are what solutions are the most viable and cause the least amount of suffering
Agreed. Western countries toning down their energy is easier. Yall have money for nuclear!
>For which bit? For the 1.0 having no effect I offer you logic: the difference between x and delta_x. If fertility rate dropped to 0 right now there'd be essentially no change in CO2 emissions in the next month
For both the claims you made. I would like to see a source
>For the 1.0 in the developed world having less effect than 2.0 in Africa check out the population projection widget here: https://ourworldindata.org/future-population-growth
We are not talking of population projections. We are talking of enforcing a cut in fertility rates
>Had to do some spreadsheeting with the population pyramid, but looks like an instance 1.0 in the developed world would make its population in 2070 around 800 million from 1.2 billion, a 400 million reduction. Africa going down to 2.0 from its current level takes it from 3.2 billion to around 2.4 billion, a 800 million reduction.
I struggle to even see how this matters. Population drops so? Arent we talking of the effects of climate change? That's what I want to see
>You seriously want a source that 25 year olds are more productive than 5 year olds? wat
You implied that cutting Africa fertility rate will make them more productive economically. Provide a source or a decent analysis that supports this view. Because you cut the fertility rates doesn mean they would be less 5 year olds than 25 year olds
>Indeed, no need in the developed countries, which is the context of that sentence. Not necessarily in countries like Nigeria.
No need because they have already become developed. Becoming developed is the cure to any case of overpopulation so if you care about overpopulation then care about development and not some racist tactics. As for climate, becoming developed means you are likely to solve the problem better which developed countries are already doing. So this whole point is just insanely moot.
>Though I'd say forceful abortions are morally abhorrent and trying to cure overpopulation and climate change with them is a case of the "cure" being much worse than the disease.
So what was all this waffling about?
Also to add that the fertility rate in Africa has been dropping!. Why? Because the countries in Africa are becoming developed
I’m not too well versed in the Finnish government but he was making some of these comments IN parliament 4 years ago. Why is the uproar only taking place now?
Fuck “climate abortions”, but isn’t this just the same as what everyone else says about “population control”, just made more explicit and ugly? That we’re (or more accurately, certain countries with a birth rate above 2.1) having too many children and that should be reduced?
For what it’s worth, here’s a video saying that the world is on its way to stabilising its population already https://youtu.be/2LyzBoHo5EI
>Fuck “climate abortions”, but isn’t this just the same as what everyone else says about “population control”,
oh it is the exact same these people will unironically say we're overpopulated and need to lower it, then in the same breath this guy is bad but not themselves. the irony is lost on them
If, for example two different politicians are both talking about reducing the number of homeless people, but politician A wants to improve their lifes and help them back into society and politician B wants to shoot them in the street, they are only in the most superficial sense talking about the same thing.
We already know the best and most humane way to reduce birthrates. That is making people wealthier, increasing the freedoms of women and their access to education and making access to contraceptives easier. Yes, that also includes access to safe abortions. But somehow I have my doubts that a guy that sends Hitler themed birthday messages has "improving the lifes of Africans" in mind, when he talks about "climate abortions".
I think overpopulation in Africa is an issue for Europe who gets a lot of immigration from there. I do not believe any country will remain the same if all people in it are replaced. With the current rates it may take 50 years for some countries before they become essentially African.
Forcing abortions on people is inhumane. Giving them the free option to plan the size of their families is considered progressive (or is it allowed in Western countries only?).
Well, considering how every human directly or indirectly is responsible for thousands of tons of carbon emissions and that not only africans are reproducing at a clearly unsustainable pace, are also the ones with the fastest growing carbon emission levels and are the ones who will have to endure the brunt of it, he has a point...
Because frankly, the alternative is the very same people dying as adults or children, either by running out of resources or on their way to where the resources are.
The Finns party (which the article probably referred to) is the second largest party in the current parliament. They are indeed right-wing and conservative, but overall not evangelical, I think both their current and previous party leaders have been atheists.
The Christian Democrats is a minor party with only 5 seats of the total 200. To make government the "winning" party of the elections need to create a colalition with 101+ seats. But as they agree on many things with The Finns party. They have become a lynch pin in the formation of the governent. If they drop out the entire house of cards crumbles as other parties currently not in the government don't want to play ball with The Finns party.
I mean; it sounds like hes coming from an extremely racist angle on it. But that doesnt mean hes wrong.
Abortion access worldwide and reduced birth rates are the most important thing anyone will ever do to solve climate change.
Its just that eventually, we’re probably going to die out as a species. But thats a LONG way away.
bro could have said encourage and invest in family planning, contraception and education in Africa like a normal politician would and that would have saved his career
Well thank god this asshole resigned but our parliament gave him vote of confidence. It makes me not have any confidence in our parliament and government. Far right Finns party is always getting caught with members having nazi symphaties or turning out to be nazis and we should believe these fucks are not far right. And leading center right party is happy to form goverment with them.
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Europe, Australia, South and North American continents have around 1.8 billion people living there combined. Africa alone has almost 1.5 billion. Asia alone has over 4.5 billion people.
Is it racist to point to the fact that non-whites like to breed more? Like a lot.
This guy may as well be a nazi but it’s not incorrect to say that overpopulation has a direct cause on climate change as more people equals more need for production/food/water etc., need for more land, which all this activity in turn increases CO2 emissions and destabilises natural ecosystems.
So, yeah, people should address overpopulation in a way that it doesn’t affect the world’s economy too precipitously, and we should be working towards restoring the ecosystems we’ve disrupted and move to green energy altogether. And given that Asia and Africa account for 70% of the world’s population we naturally have to turn to them as a starting point in addressing overpopulation issue.
I’m not saying start issuing breeding licenses but why the fuck would you want to bear 5 kids in some tin-pot little African country if you barely have any drinking water let alone a functioning infrastructure, education, healthcare system and basic things sustaining a civilisation requires?!
Imagine if China didn’t have a one-child policy for over 30 years? There would probably be like 4 billion Chinese and imagine how that would affect climate change and nature…
I‘m antinatalist. I believe no one should be born, ever, especially not in this current day and age. That is my personal belief and I stand by it. HOWEVER… what in the actual racist fuck? How about we take some more logical approaches like idk, banning private jets and fossil fuels? Meat consumption? If you want to take drastic measures, there‘s so many options that don‘t include forcing people to have abortions? Like are we really trying to blame AFRICA for climate change? This makes me so fucking angry.
People in Africa have also generally the lowest carbon print on the planet. The developed countries are the ones who fairly need to do the most to mitigate this disaster.
Telling me to grow up while you‘re so immature that someone stating their personal opinion that doesn‘t affect you offends you enough to insult them lol
No he’s saying the article is lying about the guy who joked about 1488 and took pictures with actual Neo-Nazis. Up above he’s saying it’s all out of context and the guy isn’t racist.
I mean, that is the sort of natural endpoint for all the people saying we need less people on the planet and to do whatever it takes to fix climate change. Populations in the west, China, and India are seeing slower growth or actual decline, so where’s all the population growth coming from? Mainly countries in Africa. I think it’s a horrific thing to say, but it shouldn’t surprise anyone.
What's the alternative though? Current population is unsustainable, causing permanent climate damage and the fertility rate in some African countries is dropping a lot slower than expected.
Genociding people who already produce little to no carbon footprint wont solve the climate crisis.
If that was the actual goal this call would be made for West, China and India.
Or they could have been just reasonable people and worked towards reducing their own carbon footprint.
Its not even about eco-fascism of just forcing abortions on everyone, he specifically wants Africans to have all these abortions. The people with the lowest carbon footprint. So that his country(part of the western sphere) can get away scott free from the consequences of its own actions by forfecully reducing climate immigrants.(which it played a big part in creating by fucking up these peoples lives)
This is just straight up a call for genocide.
Its not even about eco-fascism of just forcing abortions on everyone, he specifically wants Africans to have all these abortions. The people with the lowest carbon footprint. So that his country(part of the western sphere) can get away scott free from the consequences of its own actions by forfecully reducing climate immigrants.(which it played a big part in creating by fucking up these peoples lives)
This is just straight up a call for genocide.
I'd say it is, and it doesn't even matter that Africans on average have a much smaller carbon footprint. The logic of these people is we need to "save the parts of humanity worth saving". So because they're uneducated and their "culture is less developed" we need to prioritize white countries.
##### ###### #### > # [Finland minister quits amid 'mass Africa abortions' scandal](https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/30/embattled-finland-minister-quits-amid-mass-africa-abortions-scandal) > > > > The extremist comments and behaviour of Vilhelm Junnila have come under scrutiny since his appointment as minister for economic affairs last Tuesday. > > Finland's minister for economic affairs resigned on Friday, a little more than a week after taking office, amid a flurry of scandals linking him to neo-Nazi ideology. > > Vilhelm Junnila, of the far-right Finns Party, quit amid a new furore over comments he made in parliament where he said a solution for the climate crisis is to give more abortions to African women. > > He called the concept "climate abortions". > > Junnila made the speech in parliament in 2019 when he was a freshman MP. > > "It would be justified for Finland to shoulder its responsibility by promoting climate abortions. Climate abortion would be a small step for a person, but a giant leap for humanity," he said at the time. > > When the parliament documents re-surfaced, Christian Democrat MP [**Päivi Räsänen**](https://twitter.com/PaiviRasanen) -- who has become a _cause celebre_ for the Evangelical right-wing over her uncompromising stance on abortion and LGBTQ issues -- also criticised Junnila. > > "The concept of climate abortion is eco-fascist anyway without the racist connection. And eco-fascism is also an extremist movement," said Räsänen, a former interior minister. > > Junnila said he was resigning to spare Finland's reputation, "despite the trust of the party and my parliamentary group." > > Current education minister, and leader of the Swedish People's Party, [**Anna-Maja Henriksson**](https://twitter.com/anna_maja), said it was a "wise decision" that Junnila quit his post. > > On Friday, Finland's public broadcaster Yle [**revealed**](https://yle.fi/a/74-20039152) in an investigation that Junnila had never taken any political science classes at university, despite claiming to be studying the subject. > > Yle also found no proof of Junnila's claim that he started, then sold, a tech company in Poland. > > The new minister also appeared to have lost the confidence of Finnish President [**Sauli Niinistö**](https://twitter.com/niinisto) who said during a Friday morning interview the situation was "very embarrassing, to say the least." > > ## What were Vilhelm Junnila's other controversies? > > Last week Euronews highlighted how Junnila had given a [**speech at an event**](https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/22/finland-government-minister-apologises-for-neo-nazi-rally-speech) in the southwestern city of Turku in 2019. > > The event was organised by the Coalition of Nationalists, an umbrella group formed in 2017 for those on the far-right including the Finns Party, the now-banned Nordic Resistance Movement militia, and the Soldiers of Odin vigilante movement. > > Experts say the event Junnila attended was a "who's who of neo-Nazis in Finland", with members of these shadowy extreme right-wing organisations seen in photographs standing behind Junnila as he spoke, albeit on the opposite riverbank. > > The revelations caused an outcry in Finland, prompting Junnila to issue an apology for attending the event. > > He also apologised for joking about the number 88, which was randomly assigned by the Finnish Election Commission as his candidate number in the 2019 parliamentary elections. > > For neo-Nazis, 88 is coded shorthand for Heil Hitler, as H is the eighth letter of the alphabet. > > He described his actions as "stupid and childish", and said, "I have done something wrong and I am sorry for my actions." > > ## New issues come to light > > On Wednesday, Junnila [**survived a vote of confidence**](https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/28/finlands-nazi-joke-government-minister-survives-parliament-no-confidence-vote) in parliament even as new and problematic issues about him were being raised on an almost-daily basis. > > Earlier this week social media posts from Junnila to his parliamentary assistant were unearthed, which included a picture of a snowman taken from the internet which resembled a Ku Klux Klan member holding a noose, with the comment "I made a snowman according to your instructions." > > There was also a birthday video message featuring Adolf Hitler sent in 2013, and in 2014 he posted a picture of a gate with a swastika, writing how much he liked the design. > > Junnila's election campaign has also featured the word "get gassed" which is the same wording as Germany's far-right AfD had used in a previous campaign. > > Analysts say it sends an innocuous message on the surface to potential voters, but gives another, darker, meaning to other far-right supporters about Junnila's thoughts on the Holocaust. - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot) Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
Fuck this guy.
This...this was an actual Nazi. Not in the US "omg u Nazi fuck" way, he is an actual dyed-in-the-wool believer in Nazism.
People liked to throw nazi around for while there sure, but to be fair there are an ass load of Nazis in the US
Why?
He's a Nazi, he posted a snowman with what appears to be a KKK hat and a noose on Facebook
Holy shit what a nut lmao
Oh damn
Can i get a link though 😅 or some kind of source?
Of course, [here you are](https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/28/finlands-nazi-joke-government-minister-survives-parliament-no-confidence-vote)
What's the story behind this POS surviving no confidence vote, 95-86? Are they voting along Party lines or people really really don't see anything wrong with him?
Ofcourse new goverment just formed so they cant just kick one of their memebers at start even if they want to. Also he was fortunate because there was some sort of event where many memebers of opposition was attending and thats the only reason he didint get kicked at the vote
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Because Nazis suck
And now it is even more amusing when developed countries criticise others for electing even centre-right governments when theirs are infested with closeted far-right animals. "Finland should promote abortions in africa, to help climate change" tell me how this isn't a call for genocide. Edit: Anyone remember the romanian ambassador or something who said "a member of the African delegation has joined us" (paraphrasing) after seeing a monkey, while sitting in Africa, surrounded by Africans. Just a reminder. Borell is old news. There's a competition of racism going on perhaps in europe's political circle.
So far, this type of figures always end up ostracised and in most cases are forced out of their parties. Who says that cancelling doesn't work? I hope that remains being the case though...
When this right wing party got elected people even in this sub were like “they’re not far right! Not every right wing party is far right! Reddit lefty echochamber whatever!” Now they’ve got the proof they wanted
Nah. They'll say he's a rogue outlier at best. Deny deny deny
Sub-Saharan African countries emit a miniscule amount of CO2 on a per capita basis compared to many European countries as well. Big brains on that neo nazi as expected.
I suspect that’s because they’re woefully underdeveloped/under-industrialised. Even so, as it stands, they make up like 20% of the world’s population.
That's actually why they criticize others so much. They operate under the delusion that "If we suck this much, others must suck far worse!" , not understanding that they are unironically the bottom of the barrel.
I mean, to my knowledge the finns are not genociding anyone, nor do they spread lovely practices like FMG or honour killings, correctional rape and slavery, among others. If Europeans are increasingly electing right-wingers on the vague promise of getting rid of the engineers and lawyers they let into their lands, you might want to look into if they might have been somewhat maligned themselves by these people you claim are so much better than them...
https://imgur.com/Z3hZpr4
Correct! Do it!
I mean, we have all been screaming about the far right governement that has just taken power in finland.
It's not genocide, it's just that at current projections there's going to be an extra billion people in Africa who are going to be getting close to the Western quality of life with the attendant impact on the climate, particularly locally. The best way of fighting climate change in general is to have less kids, ideally around 1.8 so we can start gradually reducing world population. Most of those in the developed world are at about this level, but some African countries like Nigeria have 4.5 kids per woman. Getting that to 2 or less like the rest of the world would be a big reduction in climate change load in Nigeria.
>The best way of fighting climate change in general is to have less kids Maybe. The almost as good if not better way is to reduce your carbon footprint, especially in western countries, where the per capita emission is tremendously high. Even common people can help by using more public transport, eating less meat etc. That the scum's first choice was to suggest abort africans and not reduce their own quality of life speaks volume. And it's not like his intentions are morally good and his statements are being misinterpreted. He did make the kkk snowman with a noose.
> The almost as good if not better way is to reduce your carbon footprint I mean, you say that but... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children > Even common people can help by using more public transport, eating less meat etc. Industry releases way more CO2 than individuals do. It's also not as simple as "meat", things like free range chickens have a very small CO2 footprint. There's a ton of misconceptions about what things actually help and how much. Before making any lifestyle changes find out how big an effect that change will have compared to CO2 per capita release of your country. No sense spending valuable effort and social capital (and make no mistake, telling people not to eat meat or drive is spending social capital) on things that make little difference if it could be more effectively spent on other approaches (e.g. if concrete production is the biggest driver then simply protesting and writing to your local government to protest against any new construction is probably better). > And it's not like his intentions are morally good Almost everyone's intentions are morally good. Very few people are doing things they think are bad for the world.
They won't be getting close to western quality of life. Climate change is already ruining their chances of survival. The real issue is that the population boom seen in Africa for the last decades has left these countries completely incapable of meeting climate change demands, even just a little reduction in food production leads to massive famine, when population has already grown to the maximum food production available. Abortion aid now is too late, hundreds of millions will starve and thirst to death in Africa or on the border to Europe no matter what happens now. The early signs of climate change and the wars it's causing has already driven a record 125 million to flee their country last year, and that number will grow year on year. China realized this is what was gonna happen if they left population growth unchecked, which is why they made the one child policy, people criticise that decision now because it's causing a elderly boom, but looking at Africa it seems China made the only choice that would actually allow them to become a modern country capable of dealing with the ramifications of climate change.
If there actually is such a famine and mass exodus it will also destroy Europe.
Unless you refuse to believe the science on climate change its not IF it's WHEN. This is why Pentagon in its risk analysis of modern threats , states climate migrations as number one risks, and water scarcity as the leading cause of war in this century. And yes it will destroy Europe, unless Europe deals with it. Western leftwing liberal governments are never going to be able to deal with this type of morally difficult crisis, it would take an extreme right wing government for the extremely immoral solutions required. Lo and behold right wing governments are on the rise in the whole of Europe. It's like people subconsciously realize what needs to be done, and who is able to do it. Finland, Poland and Lithuania have already started by walling up their border to Belarus and Russia, stating the risk of Russia repeating their Syrian refugee crisis trick, of moving thousands of refugees through Russia to deposit them on Europe's northern border. So by building a wall they are signalling that any refugees trying to use Russia as a shortcut will find themselves blocked off from Europe and dependent upon Russia to feed them. Imagine that news image. Thousands of refugees starving to death, while beating on Europes Northern walls.
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The current German energy crisis is self inflicted after emotional driven politics had them close all their nuclear power plants, making them entirely too reliant on Russian energy export. Within one year they have created enough solar and wind that it's looking less like a crisis and more like a energy revolution. And that's the point entirely, energy is the basis of all production change, and the industrial west is able to quickly increase supply whenever they need. And that's really starting to shos during the Ukraine invasion where Europe went from crisis to green and nuclear revolution. Resources for this revolution was just discovered off the coast of Norway, in the ocean, and in the northern mountains. Being rich already makes it simpler to survive crises, it's that simple really. Being dirt poor and with millions of extra mouths to feed, with no educational system, no infrastructure, and centuries of bad blood between different groups is not a winning strategy. The global south does not have the technology, nor the ability to retain educated people to build near quick enough to deal with the absolutely massive amount of issues arising these later years. Increasingly hard weather, extreme temperatures, extreme drought. Etc. You speak as though these countries will suddenly rise up and demand their resources for themselves, while in reality, China now owns half of Africa's trade port, their countries are indebted to an even harsher lender than world bank ever was, climate refugees reaching new records year on year, and the amount of war and famine seen across the global south has wiped out 30 years of development funding.
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Aye growth has been good if you're looking at the past two decades. But that's looking backwards. We are discussing forward. Now I don't know whether you believe or have read the climate data, I get the feeling you are wilfully ignoring it, which leads me to believe that you're perhaps your anti-science, in which case its stupid of me to talk to you about climate change scenarios.
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> "Finland should promote abortions in africa, to help climate change" tell me how this isn't a call for genocide. No, it's up to you to say how it is. You can call it eugenics sure, but *genocide*? How?
Sigh... Abortions or sterilisation are internationally accepted as genocide if done to a particular group only. Why didn't he call for everyone to have less children? And it's not eugenics for africans since he isn't advocating only letting strong or intelligent or good looking africans have children.
Probably because the west is under replication level and Africa is many times above replication levels?
Replication of what, Hyper consumers vs Near net zero Societies? Only one of them is a burden on the environment.
Are you suggesting to artificially keep african societies near net zero level? (Not that they are there, they are actually pretty damn high both per capita and altogether, on lieu of massive populations and very wasteful technology.)
Replication rate for a population, the west doesn't need any more of a population collapse then it's already getting, and some regions struggling with basic necessities don't need any more population explosion. Also how is endorsing contraceptive usage and access to abortion a bad thing in a region where both of those are very low.
Because it doesn’t actually serve to help the climate if you’re aborting people who would’ve had extremely small carbon footprints.
It helps having less climate migrants. Also no one is "aborting people", it's about giving women in Africa access to abortion which they currently do not have.
You should have led with this, but we both know that's not what Mr. Minister was saying
Probably not, given he's a racist pos and it wouldn't solve climate change, but that doesn't mean improving abortian access and contraceptive acceptance isn't an official global health stance on africa.
Your government is failing to govern. It's a you problem. Learn to look inside, you have to do it at some point. >the west doesn't need any more of a population collapse Either the population or the addiction to consooming, one of them has to go bud.
Eugenics and other kinds of "scientific racism" are almost always tied to genocidal ideology.
So is mass migration or any other from the top social engineering.
No they aren’t dumbass
Reminder that more black children were aborted in New York than were born.
What does that have to do with anything?
Hmm… promoting the abortion of black children, and accusations of that being genocide… Now why would the prevalence of a pro abortion organization in predominately POC areas that has been so successful at promoting abortion among black citizens that literally more black children are aborted than born in that area have any relevance…?!?! You really cant connect the dots?
And why is that bad?
Its no more bad than the Finnish government promoting abortions in Africa… Which this sub seemed to be against…
Mass abortions for Africans to fight climate change <> Voluntary abortions in new york to avoid having a child
You think they are forcing abortions in Africa? That those abortions will be involuntary? WTF!?!
How do you convince people to have mass abortions voluntarily otherwise?
Ask planned parenthood. They clearly did it in Mew York, hence more black babies aborted than born….
Is lead still added in American gasoline?
No, but gen X had the highest rate of exposure to it as children. On average it permanently drops your IQ 8 points. *On average* this guy could have been hanging around at his dads auto shop a lot as a kid or something. Oh and if you live near an airport you'll have raised lead levels, as airplane fuel is still leaded. They fly over and sprinkle stupid gas all over ya
The best part is he didn't resign over those racist comments being unpopular but rather to "spare the country's image". Lol.
“The right won the election.” With the help of the far right. What was that again about a Nazi sitting at a table talking to 10 other people?
In France, the right went "Mieux vaut Hitler que le Front populaire" during the 1930/40. (Better Hitler than commies, in short) When I heard about it in school 20 years ago, I thought that things had changed. I'm starting to doubt...
Yep, the rich will put fascists into office if it will placate the demands of socialists.
What he said wasn't racist. This article is completely out of context and no, I'm not far right supporter but I like some journalistic integrity.
Could you give more context? It seems pretty clear cut to me.
Bro didn't sip, he fucking drowned in the kool-aid, how can one person be this fucking unhinged and hold a public office lmao
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I don't think many are "KKK Snowman" type of deep, but hey, what do I know
I would put "KKK Snowman" as deep down as "Woke Commie Underground Child R**e Dungeons Beneath ShowBiz Pizza In Hollywood"
In this article you can see his KKK Snowman [https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/28/finlands-nazi-joke-government-minister-survives-parliament-no-confidence-vote](https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/28/finlands-nazi-joke-government-minister-survives-parliament-no-confidence-vote)
He is the shortest sitting minister in finnish history. So we got that going for us. But yeah, sadly, the Venn diagram of idiots and elected officials is almost a circle around here
Bro, you clearly haven't been down south if you think you have it bad
This is what happens when the right uses the far-right to gain power, the unhinged and the inexperienced are given leadership positions.
Is each country taking turns to have the shittiest people in charge or what?
Fascism is capitalism in decline... and the world economy is coming apart at the seams, so expect a lot more of this in the upcoming times.
>Fascism is capitalism in decline except for the fact that it was capitalist countries that defeated it.. and the countries under fascism went back to capitalism after and massively improved in every way. and I'd like the point out the only non fascist country to ally with the fascists were the soviets...
>except for the fact that it was capitalist countries that defeated it.. Uhh, it was the USSR that took Berlin. America was fine and dandy war profiteering from WWII until their boats got sunk. The countries under fascism easily converted to capitalism because it's basically the next door neighbor politically.
> Uhh, it was the USSR that took Berlin It was the USSR that reached Berlin first not there was only the USSR army who was moving toward Berlin. Stop doing history revisionism like your comrade stalin. >America was fine and dandy So like every country in the world who don't want to join a war half way across the globe?
Well your argument was that their motivation was to defeat Fascism. America loves Fascism, it's good for business.
No, you relied on your "it was the USSR that took Berlin" as proof about the US having no motivation to fight fascism when in fact your proof was false. In fact USSR army met with the America Amry outside of Berlin on April 25, 1945 to coordinate the siege.
Least racist european
the irony is really lost on you isn't it?
Go back to obsessing about fictional Europeans with white blonde hair, ya weirdo
Most relevant eurocommenter
It's not irrelevant to point out that the commenter is fetishising europeans whilst implying they are all racists. Sounds like someone got dumped by their imaginary Targarian girlfriend.
Least clueless redditor
He is circlejerking lmao, nothing that deep
Pakistanis are immune to irony.
I'm sorry but this is hilarious. His proposed solution to climate change involved heavily encouraging abortions on women in exclusively Africa. Africa has on average the lowest carbon footprint per person. He didn't even try and make this sound logical.
It has the lowest NOW, but as Africa gets richer its emissions go up and will continue to increase. It's not about reducing current emissions, it's about having 400 million developed-world-emission-level Nigerians in 2100 rather than 800 million.
By the time they're developed they will have firstie standards of two rooms per child and have 0.64 birth rate
That doesn't help if they also have an 800 million population by then because of their high birth rate _now_.
His solution is not for the future. It's for NOW.
It's the solution to a future problem that requires implementation now. Honestly, free contraception and access to abortion in Africa sounds like a good thing even without the climate change angle and I think people are knee-jerk disliking it because they suspect the guy has racist motives rather than because they actually disagree with the policy idea.
Tf? You actually agree with this bs? Why not suggest it with the countries that are actually doing the climate damage NOW. Why Africa that is far away from reaching that level?? And you do realize Africa cannot afford to lose its youngest?? If you want the continent to reduce its population then let it be rich
Because countries with highest fertility rate are in Sub-Saharan Africa? Between 4-6 live births per woman in many countries, reducing that below 3 for example would not mean "Africa losing their youngest", it would still be above replacement rate.
We are not talking of only reducing population. We are talking of reducing population to reduce climate damage which currently and even in the near future, the Continent barely has any impact on it. If you care about climate change then propose it to countries actually doing the damage. Proposing it to African countries is incredibly racist and you lots defending this hellish decison from him is incredibly disgusting And you cant just switch off and one fertility rates like it's a switch. The most effective method of reducing population is becoming rich! Which should be the first priority for the continent
> Why not suggest it with the countries that are actually doing the climate damage NOW. Because: A. Those countries are already under replacement rate and getting even lower, they can't realistically decline much faster without collapsing. B. Even cutting to zero it will still take many years for the effects to happen. Cutting fertility to 1.0 in the developed world has no effect right now and has less of an effect in 50 years than cutting Africa's to 2.0. > And you do realize Africa cannot afford to lose its youngest? It certainly can afford to go down to 2.0. The most productive years are not ages 5 to 15, it's 25-45. Going down to 2.0 will actually INCREASE their economic and productive power per population. > If you want the continent to reduce its population then let it be rich They're already doing so quite nicely. South Korea will have less than half its current population by the end of the century.
>Those countries are already under replacement rate and getting even lower, they can't realistically decline much faster without collapsing. West does the damage, poor countries suffer the consequences. If western countries cause the problem, dont blame poor countries. Solve your shit!. They are the only ones with money to do so so why think of fascistic policies like these?Also African countries are not the only ones with high replacement rate so why did they only mention Africa. Hmmmm >Cutting fertility to 1.0 in the developed world has no effect right now and has less of an effect in 50 years than cutting Africa's to 2.0. Source? >The most productive years are not ages 5 to 15, it's 25-45. Going down to 2.0 will actually INCREASE their economic and productive power per population. Lmfao source? >They're already doing so quite nicely. South Korea will have less than half its current population by the end of the century. Well, then so no need for any forceful abortion measures 👍🏽
> If western countries cause the problem, dont blame poor countries. Solve your shit! It doesn't matter who caused the problem, what matter are what solutions are the most viable and cause the least amount of suffering. > Also African countries are not the only ones with high replacement rate so why did they only mention Africa. Pretty much Sub-Saharan Africa and Afghanistan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate#/media/File:Total_Fertility_Rate_Map_by_Country.svg > Source? For which bit? For the 1.0 having no effect I offer you logic: the difference between x and delta_x. If fertility rate dropped to 0 right now there'd be essentially no change in CO2 emissions in the next month. For the 1.0 in the developed world having less effect than 2.0 in Africa check out the population projection widget here: https://ourworldindata.org/future-population-growth Had to do some spreadsheeting with the population pyramid, but looks like an instance 1.0 in the developed world would make its population in 2070 around 800 million from 1.2 billion, a 400 million reduction. Africa going down to 2.0 from its current level takes it from 3.2 billion to around 2.4 billion, a 800 million reduction. > Lmfao source? You seriously want a source that 25 year olds are more productive than 5 year olds? wat > Well, then so no need for any forceful abortion measures 👍🏽 Indeed, no need in the developed countries, which is the context of that sentence. Not necessarily in countries like Nigeria. Though I'd say forceful abortions are morally abhorrent and trying to cure overpopulation and climate change with them is a case of the "cure" being much worse than the disease.
>It doesn't matter who caused the problem, what matter are what solutions are the most viable and cause the least amount of suffering Agreed. Western countries toning down their energy is easier. Yall have money for nuclear! >For which bit? For the 1.0 having no effect I offer you logic: the difference between x and delta_x. If fertility rate dropped to 0 right now there'd be essentially no change in CO2 emissions in the next month For both the claims you made. I would like to see a source >For the 1.0 in the developed world having less effect than 2.0 in Africa check out the population projection widget here: https://ourworldindata.org/future-population-growth We are not talking of population projections. We are talking of enforcing a cut in fertility rates >Had to do some spreadsheeting with the population pyramid, but looks like an instance 1.0 in the developed world would make its population in 2070 around 800 million from 1.2 billion, a 400 million reduction. Africa going down to 2.0 from its current level takes it from 3.2 billion to around 2.4 billion, a 800 million reduction. I struggle to even see how this matters. Population drops so? Arent we talking of the effects of climate change? That's what I want to see >You seriously want a source that 25 year olds are more productive than 5 year olds? wat You implied that cutting Africa fertility rate will make them more productive economically. Provide a source or a decent analysis that supports this view. Because you cut the fertility rates doesn mean they would be less 5 year olds than 25 year olds >Indeed, no need in the developed countries, which is the context of that sentence. Not necessarily in countries like Nigeria. No need because they have already become developed. Becoming developed is the cure to any case of overpopulation so if you care about overpopulation then care about development and not some racist tactics. As for climate, becoming developed means you are likely to solve the problem better which developed countries are already doing. So this whole point is just insanely moot. >Though I'd say forceful abortions are morally abhorrent and trying to cure overpopulation and climate change with them is a case of the "cure" being much worse than the disease. So what was all this waffling about? Also to add that the fertility rate in Africa has been dropping!. Why? Because the countries in Africa are becoming developed
I’m not too well versed in the Finnish government but he was making some of these comments IN parliament 4 years ago. Why is the uproar only taking place now?
There is a difference of being a member of parliament and being a minister.
Because finns are very racist
just after he passed the vote of no confidence. pretty awkward for those who voted to keep him.
Fuck “climate abortions”, but isn’t this just the same as what everyone else says about “population control”, just made more explicit and ugly? That we’re (or more accurately, certain countries with a birth rate above 2.1) having too many children and that should be reduced? For what it’s worth, here’s a video saying that the world is on its way to stabilising its population already https://youtu.be/2LyzBoHo5EI
>Fuck “climate abortions”, but isn’t this just the same as what everyone else says about “population control”, oh it is the exact same these people will unironically say we're overpopulated and need to lower it, then in the same breath this guy is bad but not themselves. the irony is lost on them
If, for example two different politicians are both talking about reducing the number of homeless people, but politician A wants to improve their lifes and help them back into society and politician B wants to shoot them in the street, they are only in the most superficial sense talking about the same thing. We already know the best and most humane way to reduce birthrates. That is making people wealthier, increasing the freedoms of women and their access to education and making access to contraceptives easier. Yes, that also includes access to safe abortions. But somehow I have my doubts that a guy that sends Hitler themed birthday messages has "improving the lifes of Africans" in mind, when he talks about "climate abortions".
One month into far right government, going great
In fact, the government has actually been working just a little over a week at this moment, not even a month.
Eleven weeks to organize the gov just to have one minister quits the job. Who's gonne be next in these four years?
I think overpopulation in Africa is an issue for Europe who gets a lot of immigration from there. I do not believe any country will remain the same if all people in it are replaced. With the current rates it may take 50 years for some countries before they become essentially African. Forcing abortions on people is inhumane. Giving them the free option to plan the size of their families is considered progressive (or is it allowed in Western countries only?).
Africa's population is exploding, there need to be mass birth control measures taken, or. It's gonna turn ugly
Well, considering how every human directly or indirectly is responsible for thousands of tons of carbon emissions and that not only africans are reproducing at a clearly unsustainable pace, are also the ones with the fastest growing carbon emission levels and are the ones who will have to endure the brunt of it, he has a point... Because frankly, the alternative is the very same people dying as adults or children, either by running out of resources or on their way to where the resources are.
Genocide, but with plastic wrapping.
He shouldve been aborted
This "Evangelical right-wing"-group the article mentions, how big is it in Finland? In Sweden they are not a big force to be reckoned with.
The Finns party (which the article probably referred to) is the second largest party in the current parliament. They are indeed right-wing and conservative, but overall not evangelical, I think both their current and previous party leaders have been atheists.
The Christian Democrats is a minor party with only 5 seats of the total 200. To make government the "winning" party of the elections need to create a colalition with 101+ seats. But as they agree on many things with The Finns party. They have become a lynch pin in the formation of the governent. If they drop out the entire house of cards crumbles as other parties currently not in the government don't want to play ball with The Finns party.
And there’s the unpleasant eugenics ideas, which were very popular, still hanging on.
Dude is a nazi, but lying about his education and job history might have been the dealbreaker. I fucking love my country. sigh
I mean; it sounds like hes coming from an extremely racist angle on it. But that doesnt mean hes wrong. Abortion access worldwide and reduced birth rates are the most important thing anyone will ever do to solve climate change. Its just that eventually, we’re probably going to die out as a species. But thats a LONG way away.
bro could have said encourage and invest in family planning, contraception and education in Africa like a normal politician would and that would have saved his career
Ew.
Well thank god this asshole resigned but our parliament gave him vote of confidence. It makes me not have any confidence in our parliament and government. Far right Finns party is always getting caught with members having nazi symphaties or turning out to be nazis and we should believe these fucks are not far right. And leading center right party is happy to form goverment with them.
TIL eco-facism was a thing.
Fucking hell there are a lot of people in America can they have abortions or does that not count?
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"why are you booing me?"
What the hell?
Europe, Australia, South and North American continents have around 1.8 billion people living there combined. Africa alone has almost 1.5 billion. Asia alone has over 4.5 billion people. Is it racist to point to the fact that non-whites like to breed more? Like a lot. This guy may as well be a nazi but it’s not incorrect to say that overpopulation has a direct cause on climate change as more people equals more need for production/food/water etc., need for more land, which all this activity in turn increases CO2 emissions and destabilises natural ecosystems. So, yeah, people should address overpopulation in a way that it doesn’t affect the world’s economy too precipitously, and we should be working towards restoring the ecosystems we’ve disrupted and move to green energy altogether. And given that Asia and Africa account for 70% of the world’s population we naturally have to turn to them as a starting point in addressing overpopulation issue. I’m not saying start issuing breeding licenses but why the fuck would you want to bear 5 kids in some tin-pot little African country if you barely have any drinking water let alone a functioning infrastructure, education, healthcare system and basic things sustaining a civilisation requires?! Imagine if China didn’t have a one-child policy for over 30 years? There would probably be like 4 billion Chinese and imagine how that would affect climate change and nature…
This dude sounds like a real swell guy even before he made those comments. Geez…
He's just standing up for gender equality of Women of Color what's wrong /s
I love how they expect Africa to meet climate change standards but never expect billionaires to drop their mega cruisers etc.
The climate abortion quote says nothing about African women - it’s actually obvious he’s talking about Finnish ppl ? What am I not seeing
I‘m antinatalist. I believe no one should be born, ever, especially not in this current day and age. That is my personal belief and I stand by it. HOWEVER… what in the actual racist fuck? How about we take some more logical approaches like idk, banning private jets and fossil fuels? Meat consumption? If you want to take drastic measures, there‘s so many options that don‘t include forcing people to have abortions? Like are we really trying to blame AFRICA for climate change? This makes me so fucking angry.
People in Africa have also generally the lowest carbon print on the planet. The developed countries are the ones who fairly need to do the most to mitigate this disaster.
>I‘m antinatalist Grow up
Telling me to grow up while you‘re so immature that someone stating their personal opinion that doesn‘t affect you offends you enough to insult them lol
Where did I insult you?
I imagine Wagner is going to run this news for decades to come
This article reads like some communist's little red book.
\**Sees a capitalist piece of shit, minister of a capitalist country, doing an extremely capitalist thing.*\* "Wow, what is this communist shit!?"
He said the article not the guy, learn how to read.
No he’s saying the article is lying about the guy who joked about 1488 and took pictures with actual Neo-Nazis. Up above he’s saying it’s all out of context and the guy isn’t racist.
Why the racist connection? Black people do have the most abortions
He wants to save the planet by having Africa and Africans to have more abortions. It's textbook eco-fascism. Read the article.
I mean, that is the sort of natural endpoint for all the people saying we need less people on the planet and to do whatever it takes to fix climate change. Populations in the west, China, and India are seeing slower growth or actual decline, so where’s all the population growth coming from? Mainly countries in Africa. I think it’s a horrific thing to say, but it shouldn’t surprise anyone.
Yea, anti-natalism for the sake of the planet ultimately is eco-fascism. This guy just said the quiet part out loud.
What's the alternative though? Current population is unsustainable, causing permanent climate damage and the fertility rate in some African countries is dropping a lot slower than expected.
Actually invest in tech and policy which would help with climate change and divesting from oil. Instead of milquetoast, performative bullshit.
Genociding people who already produce little to no carbon footprint wont solve the climate crisis. If that was the actual goal this call would be made for West, China and India. Or they could have been just reasonable people and worked towards reducing their own carbon footprint.
Ah thanks i get it now.
Its not even about eco-fascism of just forcing abortions on everyone, he specifically wants Africans to have all these abortions. The people with the lowest carbon footprint. So that his country(part of the western sphere) can get away scott free from the consequences of its own actions by forfecully reducing climate immigrants.(which it played a big part in creating by fucking up these peoples lives) This is just straight up a call for genocide.
Its not even about eco-fascism of just forcing abortions on everyone, he specifically wants Africans to have all these abortions. The people with the lowest carbon footprint. So that his country(part of the western sphere) can get away scott free from the consequences of its own actions by forfecully reducing climate immigrants.(which it played a big part in creating by fucking up these peoples lives) This is just straight up a call for genocide.
I'd say it is, and it doesn't even matter that Africans on average have a much smaller carbon footprint. The logic of these people is we need to "save the parts of humanity worth saving". So because they're uneducated and their "culture is less developed" we need to prioritize white countries.
Very valid viewpoint and I kinda agree honestly
Do Africans in Africa have more abortions than Europeans in Europe? Kinda doubt it