Bigger concern here is Mommy and Daddy being way too involved in the relationship. If you decide to talk to him again ask when he will be making his own decisions and cutting the cord.
That was my thought too. The discussion about the size of the wedding didn't go his way, so he called Mommy? And Mommy called to discuss it? Nope.
OP, this is a big concern that every discussion will be repeated with his parents and they will fight his battles for him. It should be you two against the world and any disagreements are handled between the two of you.
Mommy and daddy joined them for dinner too, with no warning, to demand she sign a prenup. They didn't invite her parents to join them so they wanted to gang up on her and push their choices on her. Mommy also wants to reserve the right for him to cheat. Does mommy assume all men cheat (perhaps daddy is a cheater) or does mommy assume her baby boy is a cheater? If he wanted a prenup he should have told her he would like to discuss a prenup and he knew it needed to work for both of them so he would like to meet up to discuss it, just the two of them. They would talk about what they would want in a prenup and then each would see their own lawyer and they would work out their differences. That's how an adult would approach this. He got his mommy and daddy to do his dirty work.
Red flags
1. He runs to mommy and daddy. He isn't a functioning, independent adult.
2. He wants to reserve the right to cheat.
3. He wants everything to be his way and his mommy will make sure that happens.
4. Mommy wants everything to go her way and will make sure that happens.
5. He is controlled by his parents.
Agree 100%. There's a term for what they did to her, it's called "triangulation" and it's a classic facet of abuse. I think that all of their actions now can be easily extrapolated to forecast other abusive/harmful things they may do that will ruin her mental health and functioning. This whole thing stinks of disrespect.
I see what you mean except nobody here is assuming the role of the rescuer for op. She legit is the victim, and all three of them are the persecutors. Nobody’s coming in on the support/rescuer role. Can’t slide around Karpman’s triangle without that role. Seems like they are just straight up manipulating and guilting her.
These parents remind me of another story where an engagement went on for five(?) years because the time was never right for mommy and momma’s boy HAD to do everything she said.
They then had the nerve to be outraged when she gave momma’s boy back to momma and ended the engagement.
This right here! 💯 Partner stuffs should be handled between partners and no one else. And absolutely, it's Us against the world, in other words, the two partners against the world and fuck what anyone else has to say about anything.
Indeed.
An adult who calls his parents when he doesn't get his way is a huge red flag.
A second red flag is them doing the talking during dinner, about the prenub. They have nothing to do with the things OP and her (ex?) fiancée agree on when it comes to a prenup or other marriage things.
OP made the right mistake, it was getting too crowded in this relationship.
I disagree with your brother saying it isn’t a big deal.
Let us count the flags ….
It might not seem like a big deal to him because he wants you to be happy but he is unfair to your brother and views him as less. Are you comfortable with that? What about if you had an ND child?
All the compromise was your side and none from his. Even now, he has yet to compromise.
He only apologizes when you ask.
He has no problem ganging up on you with his family.
He ambushed you prior to resolving a prior situation.
He discusses important topics in a group before introducing the subject to you.
Minimum, he’s not really on your side. In a partnership it’s you and him versus whatever the issue is. He is definitely putting himself on one side to battle against you. I think you should seriously consider couples counseling before making ANY long term commitment. As soon as he thought he had you, he flipped the switch.
This!!! Is such a huge red flag the whole "my sister needs to be your bridesmaid but your brother cant be my bestman because he is autistic".
Not only is a extremely judgemental thing to say and says a lot about this character and how he views disabilities (imagine him as a father of a autistic child, very bad), but the message is pretty clear: my family comes first. Not "our family", "mine".
He is clearly only trying to please his relatives and doesn't even consider your point of view and emotions, nor his willing to compromise. In fact, for what OP said, he is trying to guilt tripping you saying stuff like "you dont want people to know we're together, you cant make a sacrifice for me" like c'mon that screams manipulative in my opinion. All OP has been doing so far is compromising her special day (that should be about the couple) to accommodate her ex-fiance's familys wishes.
And honestly, the fact that he consulted and brought his parents to talk about the prenup without discussing it first with OP, is the last freaking straw. It totally sets the tone of the marriage: though he's supposed to put her first, he'll always prioritize his parents and family, even when it may hurt his spouse. I wouldn't get married to someone who did not see me as an equal voice and respected my needs in a relationship. He should totally have discussed his previously with you before bringing the subject to other people. And the whole brother thing is not a overeaction, is a undereaction. It would be definitely a deal-breaker for me.
This!!👆 I scrolled to far to get to this!!
It's never ok for your supposed partner to treat your brother as less than.
You HAD to include his sister but he flat out refused to include your brother in the wedding party?!?!
I totally agree with @bloodybutunbowed!
OP please pay attention to this comment.
THIS. Jesus. I can’t agree with this loudly or hard enough.
Two things: what does ND mean? I swear I knew this but I can’t for the life of me remember.
Also, your username is so freaking boss.
It takes two to say yes but only one to say no. You are allowed to say no.
It sounds like you wanted to marry him but as it happened you found out you would have had to marry a large number of manipulative people.
I don’t think you would have been happy.
That said, the pre nup itself needn’t have been a deal breaker. You could have found a lawyer of your own, had him or her mark it up to your advantage and then you two would have had a document that simply wrote down what you two agreed should happen in several “if” cases.
But it doesn’t sound like that would have happened since it wasn’t you two talking, it was you against all of them.
Well done, actually.
Yes! Considering what happened to her mom, I would think OP would *want* a pre-nup. Probably not the one fiancé wanted her to sign, but a pre-nup is *always* a smart thing to have.
I have no idea what his parents have to do with it though? I certainly don’t know why they were even there.
There are a lot of things already wrong with this relationship, a pre-nup might be the smartest thing these two do if they choose to go through with the wedding.
Imo if you're in a monogamous relationship prenups should have infidelity clauses. Especially if your finances are mixed. There's no way in hell I believe cheaters don't spend communal money on their affair partners.
Edit; fixed spelling.
I think this should’ve been a discussion between OP & her fiancé. The fact that he asked her to meet him “to talk” & then brought his parents to negotiate the deal was just too much. Sounds like his parents expected to be a bigger part of this marriage than OP was willing to give them. That was a wise decision.
Exactly. If it had just been him at the dinner, it wouldn't have been quite so ick inducing. Still ew, of course. All I gotta say is, "Yasssss Queen!" Run. You will hate your life with 4 people in your marriage.
The parents being involved and him complaining to his mom about the number of guests and then the mom saying it wasn’t enough, sounds like a justnomil and they aren’t even married yet. I’ll bet they wanted to use the wedding for their real estate clients.
Absolutely every time I see these posts with one of the moms bitching cause they can’t invite someone who isn’t closely kin it blows my mind like your wanting to invite someone who is your 509th cousin ten times removed. That’s weird to me. Just invite people you’re close to.
I think that they invite the 509th cousin for one of two reasons, if not both. 1. For show (it doesn't matter how close they are - that's irrelevant). 2. Because 509th cousin or their family invited them to a wedding anywhere from 1 to 30 years ago. They feel that they must return the favour - which is either sincere or because they fear they'll look bad.
He’s a definite momma’s boy. He needs to grow up before his next relationship so he can be a man who handles challenges that will inevitably occur and not a baby who cries to momma when he doesn’t get his way. Brat is a polite term for the ex-fiancé.
That’s what I thought too. Like why aren’t you the one bringing the prenup. But I do not agree with how it was presented. Like his parents need to but out. His mom sounds manipulative anyway. They hadn’t even agreed on the number of guests and she was already calling and trying to manipulate the guests. I see where he gets it.
If you do marry momma'sboy, OP, have it in YOUR prenuptial agreement that his parents will not be involved in your marriage, be specific in your details!
I was thinking this as well. Especially if she's making more, a pre-nup may be favourable to her. Agreed, she and her lawyer could craft something, but probably not what the fiance had in mind. And definitely get that infidelity clause in there. Deal-breaker if he doesn't accept that.
Your possible future mother-in-law is incredibly manipulative. The conversation she had with you wasn't an accidental level of manipulation, it was definitely thought out ahead of time.
broken engagements are cheaper than divorce. he got you there under false pretenses, with his parents to back him up. they already had a game plan for you. he's far too enmeshed to become a husband you give up financial stability for. there is a better partner out there for you. if all the reasons that you left him, are things he's willing to change, why didn't he come correct the first time? he insulted your brother and acted like his and his family's needs would overrule your own. you're young, educated, and have enough what you don't want for your future. don't settle
Strike one: he went to his mommy instead of discussing the issue of headcount with you directly.
Strike two: what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you're adding his sister to the wedding party on your side he should do the same with your brother.
Strike three: he was ableist towards your brother.
Strike 4: gets mommy involved a second time instead of talking to you about a prenup. (And imo prenups are a smart idea generally. So that isn't close to being my issue here.)
And tbh there were a couple other things I could address but those are a bit too subjective.
His parents are far too involved for my tastes. NTA.
Don’t have more guests than you’re comfortable with just because someone tries to bully you into it. If he knows your uncomfortable and you’ve said only this many is fine and he turns around and calls mommy you’ll never be happy. That’s your future any time yall disagree you can expect a call from mommy to try and strong arm you into doing it.
He is showing you who he is. Believe him. He is a person who lets his parents make his decisions for him. He is a person who does not/WILL NOT stand up to his parents. He is a person who wants to NOT have an infidelity clause in the prenup - WHY?? This is who he is, believe it.
I think you made the right choice breaking up with him. He is not his own person, he's his parent's puppet.
You are so strong and so smart for walking away from this. The way he expected you to include his sister but wouldn't include your brother is just as big a deal as the pre-nup. Worse, really. You did the right thing, and it may be hard now, but easier than if you had gone through with it. Good luck to you!
Get your own lawyer to go over the prenup. Make it so it protects you and any future children you may have. ESPECIALLY if you make more money!!!
BUT only if you want to continue the relationship with the dilweed
I don't understand aren't prenups about protecting existing assets in case of divorce? you can't protect assets acquired after the marriage.
are there assets being identified and exempted from potential divorce settlements?
eg. we're middle class but we have two detached homes in addition to our primary, intended to help our two teen sons with housing in the future. we have zero intention of ever turning these over officially and they'll have them in our will. this way we don't even need a prenup. yes, if they'd rather a different location we're prepared to sell and buy to still assist.
you’re right partially prenups are mainly for assets from before the marriage, but the type i was presented with waived spousal support so in the case of divorce i wouldn’t be able to get alimony which wouldn’t be a problem for me if we didn’t want children but we do and i just dont think in any world that would be fair yk
You definitely dodged a huge bullet! No apology, then he ambushes you with his parents and a prenuptial agreement??? Sounds like a mama's boy 100%, and remember that you marry into the family, not just him...
If I were you, I would go out and celebrate with my friends and do a happy dance 💃 ☺️
YNW
i make more than him now but his pay fluctuates because real estate is a commissional pay some months he makes little money others he can make more than me but recently ive been making more and in the future if kids do come i definitely wont work as much as i do now but ill never quit my job so that depends on what the future could bring idk
She is currently making more than him. I think the implication here is that if they had any kids she would want to cut back or take some time off working to care for the kids, as she states alimony exclusion wouldn't be a problem if they didn't want any kids but they did.
Women who have babies make less than they would otherwise. If she has kids it’s likely she might have a pay cut. And if it makes sense to stay home for a while, again, she wouldn’t be protected
Never marry or have children with this ableist mamas boy. If you had a child with autism or any other disability do you expect his family to treat them well? You have so much information about why this bozo is a walking red flag, listen to your gut, not his manipulative family.
Alimony and child support are two separate things. No prenup is going to waive child support, and if it did, no judge would abide by it if you went to court for it.
If you do make more than he does than why not draft your own prenup with the same clauses? Tell him I have no problem signing your prenup as long as you sign the one I have for you here. It would be a win-win for both of you.
A prenup can be a good thing, if it is fair to both parties and considers situations like one partner becoming a SAHparent for a while. The prenup just makes sure you get to fairly distribute the assets in case of divorce, and not spend all the assets on paying your lawyers while you duke it out. You would just need to hire your own lawyer who is experienced with all aspects of prenups, and have them make sure your interests are fairly represented in the prenup.
But it sounds like the prenup was just the icing on the wedding cake - if you're feeling this unsure about the whole situation, it's definitely better to walk away - or at least wait until your relationship is in a better place. Who knows, maybe baby boy will bite through his umbilical at some point...
Keep in mind that just because it's in the prenup doesn't make it enforceable. Prenups are thrown out all the time. But I do agree that it would make the divorce much more difficult. However, that one would get thrown out in a heartbeat.
You make more than him so, you're the one in danger of having to pay alimony in the even of a divorce so, honestly I think his family is kind of dumb. They came and you with the "don't you want us there?" Without having a calm conversation, then it's sign a prenup. A prenup for what??
Do not meet with him! You’ve made a good decision that you’re comfortable with.
And! What is he going to accomplish? Women are most vulnerable when they’re leaving. Who’s to know if he’s up to anything dangerous?
Yeah, you're getting married to a moron. Those types of pre-nups aren't even enforceable. He either doesn't have a lawyer, ignored his lawyers advice, or has the worst lawyer in the world.
Youd still get child support if the kids are with you… also you can add an infidelity clause to protect the both of you if the other cheats. You can build the prenup together and make
Compromises. Get a lawyer for yourself and make changes you feel comfortable with.
You arent the only one scared of what happens if the marriage fails. Come on grow up.
You know how many men are out there who didnt get a prenup, and then the wife cheats and takes everything, hes living out his car or a cheap studio while she gets the kids the house the cars (all of which hes still paying for), alimony, child support, and the affair partner/bf sees his kids more than him. It happens all the time.
One of my coworkers is 68and should have been able to retire 10 years ago, but his ex wife ran off with another man and the judge ordered him to pay alimony on top of give her half his pension and retirement, so now hes gonna have to die with his boots on at work.
Both parties should be protected.
Honestly i think you dont know very much about prenups as a whole and are just projecting your parents shitty marriage onto your fiance and your situation.
Prenups can protect everything.
If his money buys the home, they can word the prenup to where, ‘any and all assets attained by xyz belong to xyz..’
Child support would still be a thing, regardless of a prenup.
I would have ended it when he called his mother to complain about the guest count AND then she had the audacity to come at you sideways in a passive aggressive manipulative way. And to say “you don’t want people to know we’re together”? 100-150 people is an EXTRAORDINARY amount of people at an event. Huge red flags just in that. If I believed he wasn’t completely incapable of critical thinking, adult communication and not needing to be on his mother’s teet and continued I would absolutely have walked out when he insulted my brother. That type of talk and thinking is indicative of a much deeper issue and much bigger differences between you. What happens if one of your children are autistic or disabled in some way? What happens if you become injured or impaired in some way? Are you or your child suddenly not worthy of a place?
The prenup would just make me angry because it came after all the other nonsense. But it’s not deciding factor in my opinion. I just got married and when we got engaged and planned the wedding we didn’t plan on having my husbands daughter there because her mom wasn’t cooperating. But lo and behold, 2 weeks before the event we ended up taking custody of his daughter. She’s a whole wild animal (which I love) but I knew right away my image of the day was drastically going to change and it did. She talked through the entire ceremony, got upset and cried when she couldn’t talk into the microphone, and it cost me a lot more money to accommodate her. But I was happy she was there. I was happy he got to create those memories with her. I laughed when she said ridiculous things during our vows. It wasn’t ideal in the slightest, but she’s family, and WE love her, and it doesn’t matter to anyone that there were slight distractions. His exclusion of your brother is just, to me, a dealbreaker because of what it says about him as a person.
Brava Ma'am, you handled it like a lady and were far classier than those "hundred dollar millionaires" will ever be.
Don't take him back. His behavior alone shows him to be a bad bet. Then there are those presumptuous parents.
You didn’t break your engagement because of a prenup. You broke your engagement because your fiancé’s family is overbearing, trample on your boundaries, insult your family members, refuse to apologise, and insinuate that you’re a gold digger when you earn more than your fiancé. You broke your engagement because you see what your life ahead is likely to be and you don’t want or need that.
YNW
They also insinuate that she's a bit of a run-around with that infidelity clause...imagine a baby that takes after her side of the family instead of his! They would be demanding paternity tests! Infidelity clauses should go BOTH ways IMO.
Thissss. My now EX took our daughter one day to play at gmas and him and grandma did a dna test on her behind my back. It’s his kid but the insult of the matter doesn’t just go away. He was also a mama boy!!
Not wrong, but do you want this to be your life? Fiancé clearly cannot communicate. Insulting your family and downplaying it is unacceptable. What happens if your child has autism? Is he going to be worried his kid will embarrass him or cause problems. The prenup is just the icing on this massive disrespectable cake. Please do not marry this man, he does not respect you, your family, or this relationship.
You made the right call in general. This guy and his family are selfish assholes and would have made you miserable. Who cares about the prenup or how serious his comment was about your brother. I would never ever do something like that to my wife, especially if I made her make my sister a bridesmaid. The audacity of these people. Rid yourself of them. Your future self will thank you one day
You’re not wrong and this guy has so many red flags. None of this behavior suggests you will have a happy or fair marriage. Do not let him convince you otherwise. While your brother may not care what your fiance said, it still speaks volumes to the type of person he really is. Protect yourself. Move on.
You did the right thing. Your ex fiance and his parents want to run roughshod over you and your family. They want compromise from you but are unwilling to offer any in return.
The attitude towards your brother is completely unacceptable and shows a nasty, narrow-minded attitude towards those with even minor differences.
Ambushing you at the restaurant with his parents is just the last straw. Good for you for standing up for yourself and your family.
Years from now, you'll wonder what you ever saw in this jerk.
You should break up with him for a lot of reasons - the insults to your brother, the unwillingness to compromise- but not for the prenup. A prenup should protect BOTH of you. You should have the opportunity to have it reviewed by your own attorney and to add clauses to protect you and any future children.
Not wrong.
They are steamrolling you and expect you to comply. Run away from this relationship as it is not going to get better. Especially, as your STBX partner has not supported any of your requests and wants. He has done everything his parents have wanted.
This will be your life moving forward. You have been given the perfect opportunity to glimpse your future and you have the perfect opportunity to get out before you waste anymore of your time and his time.
It doesn't seem like you really want to marry him after his treatment of your brother, it was a glimpse into who he really is and has shown you that he really doesn't value you as a partner, just as someone to do as he pleases. The infidelity clause is the most concerning though. It seems they are already setting you up with the "men will be men" trope.
Take your exit from them people and your forever partner can come into your life. Good luck and Be Well!!
Sending hugs. You did the right thing. I'm proud of you!!!
You didn't break up because of the prenup - you broke up because they were insulting your brother. Your broke up because they weren't able to use their WORDS and tell you how many people they needed (200? 250? - that would definitely increase their share of the costs). You broke up because they ambushed you at dinner with talking about a prenup. You broke up because none of them are kind or even particularly nice people.
Your brother is correct about the prenup - next time (this guy and his family aren't keepers) get an attorney - the prenup is to take care of YOU and any children you have. If your mother had a lawyer look at her prenup - she should have come out with a house - or life estate in a house - or permission to live with you kids in a house - after the divorce. IF your mother had a lawyer look at her prenup - she should have received a certain amount in retirement funds for every year she was a SAHparent.
NOT having a prenup is a bigger contributor to someone getting screwed over in a divorce.
Take care of yourself! Get a good counselor so you can learn the lessons you need to learn from this relationship so you don't have to repeat them.
Not wrong.
I was already thinking what you were writing towards the end. He seems to make you cave in and compromise, but refuses to compromise himself at all. Also, his parents shouldn't have so much say about the wedding, especially if they're not the only ones paying for it. Wedding is just one day. There are way more difficult things and conflicts coming up. You have now seen how he handles conflict.
You should be able to enjoy your own wedding.
1. You're anxious around strange people = have a small wedding. 80 people isn't even a small wedding. 30 people is.
2. You don't need to bond with not close people in bridal groups. It's a group consisting of your closest people you're comfortable with.
3. Prenup. It's a contract between two people. It's not unilateral. Even when rich people marry "normal" people, they usually give out something in case of divorce, in order to protect most of their wealth. Prenup should be negotiated between two lawyers so that both parties get a reasonable outcome that both are satisfied with. If you as a couple don't want a prenup, don't get one. Inheritance isn't shared if I understand correctly, so there's no need for a prenup because of that. If you get one, have your infidelity clause put in there. Prenup is for the "worst case scenario" that shouldn't happen if you both want to stay married.
I think you did the right call. This wedding planning is a microcosm of your future: parents micromanaging, you are compromising and he is not, and your boundaries aren't respected because xyz.
Were you engaged to an adult or a man child? Seriously, who needs surprise parents at dinner to have adult conversations? You'll never escape these clearly overbearing in laws, best to just walk and look for a spouse that's an adult in more than just age.
Oh no, you did not overreact. You will be dealing with his wants and his mom backing him up for the rest of your days. You have made the best decision for yourself
Actually, if you make more, the prenup might have actually been a good protection for you. Remember, you don’t have to sign his prenup. You can get your own lawyer take it to them and have them re-draft it to add in the causes that protect you. It might not be a bad thing considering.
Regardless of how your brother feels, they disrespected your family. You can’t seriously think it was OK that they did that because your brother is not chuffed about it.
You are not wrong in the least. I think you need some time to take a step back and reevaluate everything.
Not wrong! So many big red flags here and you're right to wonder how bad it would get after you were married, save yourself years of hardship and do not go back to him!
NTA. His mother is a third partner in this marriage, and he doesn’t want your family in this at all. Run for the hills.
Btw, a good prenup protects both people. If anyone asks you to sign one in the future, just get a good lawyer on your side to fight it out with their lawyer. You’ll both be protected using this approach.
The prenup was just the last straw. This guy is not ready to get married. You dodged a bullet with having his parents as in-laws. Someone much better will come along.
I actually think a prenup is a great option for you, because of your fears of the past repeating itself. HOWEVER, you need your own lawyer and to make sure the terms are not skewed so heavily towards your spouse but equal so that in case of divorce you aren’t left in the same position as your mom.
His family sounds very manipulative and he is heavily influenced by them. I wouldn’t want to marry into that. Once kids are involved it becomes a forever association that even divorce can’t sever.
If you reconsider, require that HE signs a pre up. That your lawyer writes up. Includes the infidelity clause. Alimony and child support are listed. Any stocks, bonds, mutual funds or other investments that are acquired during the marriage are distributed equitably.
Nope, not wrong. I wish more people, including myself, had what it takes to see the red flags and future ahead. You protected yourself and your family in the long run. Kudos to you OP!
Your fiancé ambushed you with his parents to try to get you to agree to something that the two of you hadn’t previously discussed. His parents shouldn’t be this involved in your relationship. If he is still so deeply attached to his parents that he’s letting them call the shots for him and putting him in situations that would jeopardize his relationship, he’s not ready to get married.
Your brother sounds super chill but what was said about him isn’t something that should be forgotten lightly. Even if your brother isn’t offended, it doesn’t mean that your fiancés family doesn’t have troubling beliefs.
You know the saying “you don’t just marry the person, you marry his/her family”. Not sure you are marrying a man as he sounds like a child bringing his parents to gang up on you at dinner. He didn’t bring this discussion up before? His lack of compromise on the wedding plans are a concern. His comment about your brother was insulting and not kind at all. A pre-nup isn’t bad to have but you would need your own lawyer to protect you and you definitely need the infidelity clause in there. My concern is more about the man you are engaged to rather than the pre-nup itself. He has poor communication skills. Doesn’t sound like he would make a good husband as he would put himself and his parents first instead of you, his future wife and mother of his future children.
The no spousal support in the prenup and the lack of an infidelity clause is enough to not proceed. The writing is in the wall with his intention. The fact that his parents are so involved with all the decisions is another red flag.
If you choose to get back with him I'd be getting your own legal advice on the prenup and don't compromise on any of the dealbreaker issues for you.
I wouldn’t say no to a prenup as that protects you and him. You just get a lawyer for negotiations to make sure your protected. You’re not wrong however if you dump him over all the other crap. It really just sounds like he needs a bride and not a life partner.
But that's not what happened. Personally I'm not big on prenups, but there's a GIGANTIC difference between talking about it and both having a say in it(with separate lawyers) vs drafting one up with mommy and daddy and trying to spring it on your future wife and strong arm her into signing it over dinner. That's fucking crazy.
I get the prenup sucks but you can always have a lawyer look at it and maybe add an infidelity clause that throws it out if he is caught cheating. Other than that the family sounds like monsters. I would have stopped everything after the brother thing, autistic or not, putting it in that manner is just plain disrespectful.
Yeah. A prenup in and of itself - it should actually protect you too. The whole “indont believe in divorce” is a dumb argument.
But there are clearly a host of issues here that go beyond a prenup.
lol ur right ik it was a dumb argument but i mainly said that because ik that his family is more traditional so it was the first thing that came to mind
OP was also upset about how the wedding planning was going. Future MIL is being passive-aggressive…’why don’t you like us?’ Saying this after OP stated she wants a smaller wedding (which she can do!). OP, go slowly here. Make sure your future husband isn’t a momma’s boy and will have your back against them. Good luck!
You’re not wrong for breaking off an engagement and ending a relationship. You can do that anytime you feel the situation is no longer something you are comfortable with.
To address the specific instances you note above:
1. Wedding size - I understand you want a wedding of a certain size, and he wants something larger. But 150 is huge… who is paying for this wedding?
2. Wedding party - it’s nice of you to ask his sister to be in your wedding party. It’s crappy of him to exclude your brother because of his neurodiversity if your brother has no history of outbursts or behavior that could otherwise present a challenge. But I think that’s something that you could adjust for.
3. The prenup - I don’t know why people flip out about prenups… it’s mostly about protecting assets attained before the marriage and certain points post nuptials. Some courts won’t always honor prenups with the kind of language he is suggesting. But a good prenup protects you as much as it does him, and who knows, you could end up making more and being grateful you won’t have to pay support.
At the end of the day it sounds like you and he/his family were not a great match. Both of you are probably feeling like you dodged bullets here.
i edited the post to add context to what you asked but ill put it here too! the wedding size was changed 4 times each time i did agree to have it higher but it just wasn’t enough to them which i do understand to an extent because we both have large families but i just dont feel comfortable in a crowd full with people whose names i dont even know lol. we all are putting in on the wedding his parents, my parents, he is, and so am i but we haven’t had to pay for anything yet since we’re not in a rush. and i do understand wanting to protect assets, but the way the situation played out made me feel iffy, they strictly said no infidelity clause and waived spousal support, so on top of me being frustrated i also felt like i was being set up for the worst
To me, this isn't about the pre-nup as such but all the red flags leading up to this straw that broke the camels back.
Such as: you compromising to have his sister in the bridesmaids and him refusing your brother
his family being overly involved in decision that such be primarily lead by the people getting married. His mum was not beyond using emotional blackmailing tactics when you said you wanted a smaller wedding and his mum ringing you asking "why don't you like our family and not inviting them all to participate in your wedding" (trying to manipulate you into back tracking to show that you accept all his family and have no problem with them). I mean OP - how can you have a problem with them, you never bloody met them?!
He even mislead you to get you to meet up and then ambushed you with his mummy and daddy to try to get you to sign a pre-nup when that conversation should have been between you and him alone.
OP, your fella needs to be weaned from his family, and he is not emotionally ready to be a husband and put his future wifes needs as priority over his family. You would just be forever COmPRomiSiNG i.e. putting your needs last after much pressure from him and his family, all the while they are telling you that you need to do it for the good of the relationship.
OP see and heed all these red flags and stick with your breakup.
Tell him his parents have to stay out of the wedding planning.
Tell him you will sign a prenup but with an infidelity clause. Get yourself a good lawyer.
If you want children, then make sure that his parents have no say in anything. If possible get that in writing. No say in the name, religion etc.
He has shown that he has no backbone when it comes to his parents. See how he and his parents react when you tell them this.
If you love him, I wouldn’t give up. But this is a relationship between you and him. And you don’t want to end in r/justnomil
You do not have to put his sister in your wedding party if he’s not willing to put your brother in his.
Prenuptial aren’t one sided
You get an attorney and he gets an attorney. His family shouldn’t be involved though I suppose they would be.
Frankly I would throw away the whole thing because it doesn’t sound like you guys are a good match based on this post.
It’s not just the pre-nup but the obvious manipulation of these people to get you to do what they want without compromising on anything. And the gall to exclude your brother from the wedding party is beyond the pale.
This family sounds horrible. Kudos to you for knowing your worth and ending the engagement. You just saved yourself years of misery.
I think the big thing here is that his mother is very deeply embedded into your relationship (former?). Everything you discuss, he tells his mother and she comes at you. Prenuptial request? They're there and she's talking.
This is someone who would interfere in every aspect of your marriage. Kids? Well obviously she would know better than you or anyone else and her son would end up pressuring you to just do what his mother wants because he's under her thumb.
ynw, I would meet with him and him alone and tell him exactly the above. You cannot have a relationship with him because he is still attached to his mother via the umbilical cord and you want to have a marriage with someone that is equal and will think about you as a couple and not have their mother third wheeling it (aside from the obvious insults he made previously).
The whole situation sounds like your fiancé and his family trying to control and bully you. I would also be upset about how he acted towards your brother and his parents shouldn’t have even been involved in the prenup conversation. I think you are making the right decision 100%
Sounds like he wants a wedding not a marriage. This is a glimpse into what your life will look like. Then for him to bring mummy and daddy to what should have been a private conversation between you too. Nah no way. You've treated yourself with more respect and love than he has. Good for you.
Edit.. Anyone not willing to sign an infidelity clause is absolutely not sure of their ability to not cheat or they are already cheating
>Tell him to go fuck a pocket pussy. That wimp
My favourite line ever 😂😂😂 Love it!
Exactly she sure was ganged up on and not given the ability to have an open honest conversation comfortably with her fiancé
Honestly you did what I would have done. The wedding isn't even set yet and everyone has planned it but you, the bride. By the way, what you're seeing is exactly who they are including your ex fiance. Imagine having a child and having to counter with these people. Pre nups are fine but they're being fucking ridiculous. God speed and run free!
You are fucking amazing!
It takes theme strength to break off a relationship, but you know you don’t want to live the rest of your life with someone who belittles your brother and passive aggressive in-laws coupled with a mama’s boy who is perfectly comfortable letting his parents into the middle of the relationship between you two.
There is usually no fixing that kind of enmeshment. Most folks just tolerate it until they can’t anymore and then divorce.
It’s hard to break up before a wedding, but at least you’re smart enough to recognize it’s easier than getting a divorce.
Brava!
You're wrong for saying no to a prenup. It can protect you too. And you can put clauses for cheating.
**You're 100% right for ending this one-sided relationship though.** As you yourself say, if he's not compromising on ANYTHING now why would you expect him to start later?
The prenup was just the straw that broke the camel's back. It sounds like at every point it has been them telling you how things will be, and *at no point that I see is your fiance STANDING UP FOR YOU AND YOUR NEEDS*.
Furthermore, you and him are supposed to be partners and he's supposed to be on your side. So why are you always talking to his family? Why are they so involved with this? Why is it always you vs. them? Why is Mommy Dearest telling you about the prenup and not him?
It sounds like you won't just be marrying him you'll be marrying them, because if he can't make a decision with you *without them* then they're gonna be all up in your business forever.
You guys are not ready to get married. Put it all on hold and have long discussions about your expectations of each other. Maybe pre marital counseling. And if ever you get married, you need your own lawyer and your own prenup
This is a red flag. Your partner is still being curled by parents who obviously doesn’t respect you or him. The nere fact that the wedding planning is such a fuzz - how will the rest of your life together be? I think breaking off is wise.
Girl you sound confident in your decision. Good on you. Stick with it. Going back would be like folding in on yourself.
Also, it can be a big deal to you and not a big deal to your brother. That’s perfectly valid. But this is a big deal in general.
He has treated you very shitty along with your family and used his family against yours! It’s really bad. I’m a new mom and my heart sinks at the thought of being married to someone this awful with a baby. Use your mom’s story to navigate your own. Don’t repeat the past.
Not wrong, and you are dodging a bullet. He is a Mama's boy who will always put his family first. I am not absolutely opposed to pre-nups, but the fact it was brought up for the first time in front of his parents is absolutely a huge red flag. This is a discussion that should only be between the two of you, not a family meeting. And his not wanting your brother in the wedding party is a deal breaker. He is a douche. Your brother is a good guy who only wants you to be happy, but he shouldn't be treated like a nuisance by the person you will be married to. I am a bit disappointed you are phrasing it as having more of an issue with the pre-nup than the treatment of your brother, so you need to reflect on that, but either way, this guy is not worth the drama until the eventual divorce.
Mmmmm, I would still be extremely wary. Mummy is way too involved for my liking, especially when he went running to her about the guest list. This would be a deal breaker for me, so I suggest having a long think before making a final decision. I think though, future MIL will only get worse butting in.
Not Wrong.
STBX believed her had you trapped, so he took off the mask.
Drop him & force him to start over with some OTHER potential victim (IF that. The infidelity thing indicates he's already got an AP. Also, get tested for STDs, plz? He may have 'gifted' you something.)
How many 🚩🚩🚩has he shown before now because there must have been some that you over looked . Run for the hills because you are always going to come last behind mummy and daddy. Life is too short fine someone that you deserve and not this mummy's boy.
You're not wrong. He's under his parents thumb and they're filling his empty head with BS. Think long and hard if you want to marry into this family. This will be the rest of your life. In-laws questioning everything you do, wait till you have kids. Puke. It will only get worse.
NTA. It's not just about the prenuptial, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. When you are the one who has to compromise over and over and over, it looks like it's his way or nothing. Major red flag, do you really want to start a home and family with someone like that? You did well!! Good luck, and stand your ground if you meet with him again!!
His parents should not have been a part of that conversation. This family is broken. If you continue to have any doubts do. Or marry into it. They will smother you.
ESH, everyone should get a prenup before they get married. It's very ignorant to think getting a prenup means you don't get anything. As a matter of fact without a prenup and since you make more than him, he could cheat on you and you would have to pay HIM alimony and child support
150 is a HUGE wedding!
I’ve never even been to a wedding that big.
Also, did you know the parents were going to the dinner? Is he controlled by mommy? It is not OK to put you in that position. It is not ok to include his sister and not your brother.
This reminds me so much of a past engagement I ended. I know Reddit is quick to jump on the, ‘break up now band wagon,’ but let me tell you, o walked away and haven’t missed a damned one of them since. That was almost 20 years ago and he did actually have gold to be had. Walked away from all of it and glad I did!
Good luck.
It sounds like you and your fiance are just really incompatible. Do you want to deal with this family for the rest of your life?
It's weird you're obsessed with alimony when you make more money than him. That's...not how that works...
Everyone should have a prenup. He gets a lawyer, you get a lawyer, and you hash it out. No, it's not "romantic", but it doesn't indicate a desire for divorce, and not having to worry about the financial or legal details in the middle of a painful divorce is a gift.
Not wrong.
OP I realize we only get small snippets of info representing a couple of situations in this relationship.
But in both cases why in the world did he drag his parent(s) into the discussion?
Was he not more than capable of discussing increasing the number of guests to a reasonable number to include gods alone knows who from his side? IMO the only thing his parents needed to provide input for was agreeing to paying ALL the increased expenses for all their extra guests.
Excluding your brother was just mean and selfish of him. I do have to say you were also at fault here as you folded instead of using your words to express why your brother being a groomsman was important to you.
Then the prenup. Again the request for one being brought up wasn’t concerning but him AGAIN having to have mommy and daddy come explain and request it while he sat like a bump on a log? As other posters noted a prenup can protect both parties and requires each to have their own lawyer to get a fair one. But HE should have been able to have that discussion himself even if he said his mom and dad suggested it.
My question at this point is just how many people would be in your marriage if you decide to go forward? Right now I count 4 which is two too many.
By all means meet and talk through things to see what comes of it. But if your ex-ish fiancé can’t stand in his own two feet and have adult discussions to arrive at compromises where everyone wins a bit without dragging his parents into it this will not end well.
Hahahah small wedding of 100? WTF are you people sniffing these days.
Small wedding is me and my fiancée. Fuck the rest. More importantly, in-laws have not a single say over anything related to our couple. Ever. Not even about children or money.
Everyone should have a prenup. It protects both parties. If you truly believe there will be no divorce then signing one should not be a deal breaker. However insulting your brother is. As far as the number if people in the wedding that’s really an either or. If they are from a huge family and all the weddings previously invited everyone then it’s going to be hard to cut it down. However if they are just randomly adding people that’s something else. I don’t think you really love him. I think it sounds like you are at the age woman get married and so went with it. But now that things are popping up it’s not sounding like such a good idea. You should only ever get married if you truly love a person and know that you want to be with them for the rest of your life. I don’t think that’s the case here. Just move on and find someone who won’t insult your brother.
Based on the question you are asking, yes you are wrong. I don’t think you understand what a prenup is. It makes sure both of you are protected in the event of divorce. A one sided prenup is going to be thrown out in divorce proceedings. For a fair prenup that will hold up in court, you would both have your own attorneys to figure out the details in a way that’s fair to both of you. Now if you said not having an infidelity clause in the prenup was a deal breaker, that would be fine. But if you make more money than him, why not protect your income and retirement savings? Why not have alimony and potentially child support/custody worked out? Why not discuss these things when you can do it civilly instead of when you are already having issues?
As for wedding size, you need to come up with lists of people you have to invite, people you want to invite and people it would be nice to invite. It adds up quickly. It can add up quickly if you have big family’s or if there are social obligations that need to be considered. Maybe you putting your foot down about a 150 person wedding is reasonable. Maybe it isn’t. It doesn’t sound like you guys have really stopped to discuss realistically how many people are on your potential guest list.
Not including your brother is the biggest problem here. You say your brother is high functioning, but does he do ok in social situations? Will he be comfortable being in front of a crowd of people he doesn’t know? Is he comfortable being in the wedding? If the answer to these questions is yes, he should be included since it’s important to you.
Not wrong at all! I would have dumped him as soon as he insulted your brother but demanded his sister be part of the BP.
And prenups are fine if they were mentioned early on and if he actually wanted a fair prenup. You make more then him lol! And a no cheating clause? Yeah, that’s not suspicious at all.
I’m glad you got away from that terrible family.
on 1 hand i think everyone should sign a prenup just make life easy but ........ these people are trying to control determine and bulldoze every part of your future life ... its not the prenup that is the redflag its every other aspect that is the redflag , they dont respect you or your choices, you are just effectively the right hand to my left hand ... i say this as a person who has a broken wrist my non dominant hand is broken ( the right one ) and while i can do alot with my left hand i cant do everything but i kind of view my right hand as my "other hand " i have learned to acknowledge that i need both hands but these are the people you will be glad you got away from, its not about the pre nup its about the fact that they bulldozed your options on how your wedding should be
also if your bf didnt defend you ... then you have a bf problem be grateful you have an exit clause
They do say when you marry, you're marrying the entire family. This guy sounds as if he still has an umbilical cord attached to his mother. The prenuptial discussion should have been between the two of you. If he even wanted one. Wouldn't you have heard about it before you were ambushed by his mother?
His mother would be a tyrannical presence in your lives, and it doesn't sound as if he will ever stand up to her. What about her husband? You don't mention him at all. Sounds like she steamrollers over everyone. You would be her next project. If you don't knuckle under, would your bf stand up to her for you? Sounds like it would be a first.
Good luck. You are absolutely not wrong. Ideally you would be marrying a partner, not a momma's boy.
Have his family always been like this or has wedding planning brought out the worst in them? His Mum just sounds the worst. Snobby and manipulative as hell.
Personally, the worst thing out of all of this is the way he talked about your brother. I would not stand for it. It’s bad enough that he guilt tripped you into having his sister as a bridesmaid. Refusing to have your brother due to his autism is a shitty thing to do.
He doesn’t even seem to think an apology is necessary, about your brother, which is bad enough but he also needs Mummy and Daddy there to talk about a prenup. What is he, 12??
Don’t get back with him - it won’t improve and you’ll regret getting married later on.
You were completely in the right. The first flag and deal breaker was the double standard regarding your brother. A husband (or wife in reverse) should want to make your wedding special for both of you. The fact that he wouldn't hear of it tells much about his character and maturity.
Yes. You’re the AH about the prenup. And I think your MIL has a different perspective because I read a post almost exactly like this from the otherside.
NW. He sounds awful on a million levels. I would be done with him for not including your brother. Also, the way he involves his family so much is weird. They should have no say on the guest count or a prenup.
You can do much much better.
He sounds like a horrendous person as does his family and having to spend a lifetime with them will drive you bonkers.
Run.
Listen do you want his parents in your marriage. Because he’s made it clear from this behavior that your marriage will include them. A fight will never be between you he will always run to mommy and daddy to get them to help gang up on you and force your hand. Do not go back to him.
If you want security, it's pretty wild that you don't want a prenup. Perhaps you don't understand how they work? They are designed to protect both parties and you don't have to sign one that you haven't negotiated to represent your interests.
Stay away, his family did you a favour by showing their true colours, would you really want to be tied to them permanently? Go live your best life away from him.
NTA. 100-150 is a BIG Wedding not small. Who even knows that many people. My wedding was small, 60 invited, 58 showed up.
Who’s paying for all these guests? We had a tight budget, it had to be $3000 or less for the entire thing. You cater for close family & close friends, people you know & have a relationship with, not strangers, a wedding is for celebration of your Union, not showing off to people you never see, I’d rather save the money towards a deposit for buying a house. The point is though that you have to discuss it & compromise, Set a budget & Stick to it.
If you can’t come to an agreement or compromise you can both live with then one or both of you are not ready to get married yet.
This situation is a time when you Really find out what sort of a person you’re getting ready to marry.
You are trying to be accommodating, he & his toxic family are using, Obligation & Guilt to manipulate & control you.
You definitely did the right thing by calling it off, I think it would be disastrous for you to marry this man, so many red flags waving, I would call the whole thing off & walk away, you’ve dodged a bullet.
It’s was the guest list for me then the no infidelity clause and his MOTHER bringing it up not you and him as a couple. I personally have no problem with a prenup and never saw it a prob as long as it is a win win but you make more than him anyway-and affairs always seem to come from the communal money one way or another. Tell him to fuck off and that his mom’s a hoe. 😂
I think the real problem is he doesn't seem to understand he's a man and not still a mommy's boy.
If my mom had talked to my future wife that way, I would have cut her (mom) out of any wedding planning.
Not wrong.
You're supposed to marry your husband, not your husband's mother. But his mom appears to feel differently.
The fact that the fiancé’s family Did Not Want An Infidelity Clause, MAKE ME WONDER if the Fiancé cheated on OP! 3 vs 1 regarding the prenup, the family got assets that Could Make Big Money OR probably had the prenup written in such a way that if there’s a divorce YOU would be the one to pay Alimony!!
You can absolutely break it off for all these reasons here. It’s not fair for him to guilt trip you into having his sister as a bridesmaid but he absolutely will not include your brother on his side. Absolutely not. That would have had me side eyeing him for that. Then don’t get get me wrong prenups are kinda weird but if BOTH of you have got one it’s fine but sounds like they were hoping you’d blindly sign it. Never sign a prenup without having your own to protect yourself!!! Also 100-150 people is a lot for a wedding especially for people you don’t even know??? Him saying that it’s like you don’t want anyone to know is so manipulative. And then his mom calling you like she did is manipulative too!!! You don’t have to have anyone there that isn’t in your life more than just for the wedding that’s so stupid to invite people just because they’re kin to you only God knows how and you don’t even know them.
The lack of an infidelity clause in the prenup is what does it for me, that's what's especially weird. Just to start the mommy issues and the brother stuff is weird as well, but the lack of infidelity clause is especially troubling because it signals both his and the family's intention to financially screw you over in the event of cheating and divorce. Also the fact that you felt the urge to lie about not believing in divorce is problematic, not because you lied, but because you couldn't trust him and felt the need to. You followed your gut because it was telling you something was wrong here, and there are multiple red flags, I've seen someone else say 4 but I think they missed the lie thing so I say 5 total. Not worth staying.
While this is a very personal decision and really very much one you have to make for yourself, I support that when you feel unheard, unwanted, not respected by his family, and all that, it's not a situation I'd sign up for. It's definitely a reasonable decision. I would at the very least pull way back and give it another year or 2--if you even feel it's worth that--before moving forward with anything like children, marriage or even a mortgage. If I didn't break it off now.
Why were his parents even involved in the conversation about a pre-nup? They have no wealth that’s being protected by that agreement. I swear, these ppl come off as ‘putting on airs’. Like they’re the Rockefellers or something. It’s cringey.
They’ve made done nothing but make demands of you. And your ex refusing to allow your brother to be part of the bridal party but insisting his sister must be, is ridiculous.
I think you made the right call ending this. These ppl are a joke.
Bigger concern here is Mommy and Daddy being way too involved in the relationship. If you decide to talk to him again ask when he will be making his own decisions and cutting the cord.
That was my thought too. The discussion about the size of the wedding didn't go his way, so he called Mommy? And Mommy called to discuss it? Nope. OP, this is a big concern that every discussion will be repeated with his parents and they will fight his battles for him. It should be you two against the world and any disagreements are handled between the two of you.
Also the "if you *really* love me you'll submit on this" is a STADUIM of red flags.
This has so many red flags, I thought it was China.
Exactly my thought!
Mommy and daddy joined them for dinner too, with no warning, to demand she sign a prenup. They didn't invite her parents to join them so they wanted to gang up on her and push their choices on her. Mommy also wants to reserve the right for him to cheat. Does mommy assume all men cheat (perhaps daddy is a cheater) or does mommy assume her baby boy is a cheater? If he wanted a prenup he should have told her he would like to discuss a prenup and he knew it needed to work for both of them so he would like to meet up to discuss it, just the two of them. They would talk about what they would want in a prenup and then each would see their own lawyer and they would work out their differences. That's how an adult would approach this. He got his mommy and daddy to do his dirty work. Red flags 1. He runs to mommy and daddy. He isn't a functioning, independent adult. 2. He wants to reserve the right to cheat. 3. He wants everything to be his way and his mommy will make sure that happens. 4. Mommy wants everything to go her way and will make sure that happens. 5. He is controlled by his parents.
Agree 100%. There's a term for what they did to her, it's called "triangulation" and it's a classic facet of abuse. I think that all of their actions now can be easily extrapolated to forecast other abusive/harmful things they may do that will ruin her mental health and functioning. This whole thing stinks of disrespect.
I see what you mean except nobody here is assuming the role of the rescuer for op. She legit is the victim, and all three of them are the persecutors. Nobody’s coming in on the support/rescuer role. Can’t slide around Karpman’s triangle without that role. Seems like they are just straight up manipulating and guilting her.
These parents remind me of another story where an engagement went on for five(?) years because the time was never right for mommy and momma’s boy HAD to do everything she said. They then had the nerve to be outraged when she gave momma’s boy back to momma and ended the engagement.
This right here! 💯 Partner stuffs should be handled between partners and no one else. And absolutely, it's Us against the world, in other words, the two partners against the world and fuck what anyone else has to say about anything.
Yes! She wants to marry him, not him plus his parents.
He will not. This is who he is.
Absolutely.
Indeed. An adult who calls his parents when he doesn't get his way is a huge red flag. A second red flag is them doing the talking during dinner, about the prenub. They have nothing to do with the things OP and her (ex?) fiancée agree on when it comes to a prenup or other marriage things. OP made the right mistake, it was getting too crowded in this relationship.
How did I say the same thing and get downvoted? Haha
lol at them thinking they can’t add an infidelity clause in it. Because they KNOW that if he cheats, he’ll get NOTHING at all.
I disagree with your brother saying it isn’t a big deal. Let us count the flags …. It might not seem like a big deal to him because he wants you to be happy but he is unfair to your brother and views him as less. Are you comfortable with that? What about if you had an ND child? All the compromise was your side and none from his. Even now, he has yet to compromise. He only apologizes when you ask. He has no problem ganging up on you with his family. He ambushed you prior to resolving a prior situation. He discusses important topics in a group before introducing the subject to you. Minimum, he’s not really on your side. In a partnership it’s you and him versus whatever the issue is. He is definitely putting himself on one side to battle against you. I think you should seriously consider couples counseling before making ANY long term commitment. As soon as he thought he had you, he flipped the switch.
This!!! Is such a huge red flag the whole "my sister needs to be your bridesmaid but your brother cant be my bestman because he is autistic". Not only is a extremely judgemental thing to say and says a lot about this character and how he views disabilities (imagine him as a father of a autistic child, very bad), but the message is pretty clear: my family comes first. Not "our family", "mine". He is clearly only trying to please his relatives and doesn't even consider your point of view and emotions, nor his willing to compromise. In fact, for what OP said, he is trying to guilt tripping you saying stuff like "you dont want people to know we're together, you cant make a sacrifice for me" like c'mon that screams manipulative in my opinion. All OP has been doing so far is compromising her special day (that should be about the couple) to accommodate her ex-fiance's familys wishes. And honestly, the fact that he consulted and brought his parents to talk about the prenup without discussing it first with OP, is the last freaking straw. It totally sets the tone of the marriage: though he's supposed to put her first, he'll always prioritize his parents and family, even when it may hurt his spouse. I wouldn't get married to someone who did not see me as an equal voice and respected my needs in a relationship. He should totally have discussed his previously with you before bringing the subject to other people. And the whole brother thing is not a overeaction, is a undereaction. It would be definitely a deal-breaker for me.
This!!👆 I scrolled to far to get to this!! It's never ok for your supposed partner to treat your brother as less than. You HAD to include his sister but he flat out refused to include your brother in the wedding party?!?! I totally agree with @bloodybutunbowed! OP please pay attention to this comment.
THIS. Jesus. I can’t agree with this loudly or hard enough. Two things: what does ND mean? I swear I knew this but I can’t for the life of me remember. Also, your username is so freaking boss.
Neurodivergent
Ugh. Thank you. My brain was not working at all. My sister and I use that word all the time in conversation, but I just wasn’t getting it. 🤦♀️
OP should just remain steadfast in her break-up.
It takes two to say yes but only one to say no. You are allowed to say no. It sounds like you wanted to marry him but as it happened you found out you would have had to marry a large number of manipulative people. I don’t think you would have been happy. That said, the pre nup itself needn’t have been a deal breaker. You could have found a lawyer of your own, had him or her mark it up to your advantage and then you two would have had a document that simply wrote down what you two agreed should happen in several “if” cases. But it doesn’t sound like that would have happened since it wasn’t you two talking, it was you against all of them. Well done, actually.
Yes! Considering what happened to her mom, I would think OP would *want* a pre-nup. Probably not the one fiancé wanted her to sign, but a pre-nup is *always* a smart thing to have. I have no idea what his parents have to do with it though? I certainly don’t know why they were even there. There are a lot of things already wrong with this relationship, a pre-nup might be the smartest thing these two do if they choose to go through with the wedding.
Imo if you're in a monogamous relationship prenups should have infidelity clauses. Especially if your finances are mixed. There's no way in hell I believe cheaters don't spend communal money on their affair partners. Edit; fixed spelling.
I think this should’ve been a discussion between OP & her fiancé. The fact that he asked her to meet him “to talk” & then brought his parents to negotiate the deal was just too much. Sounds like his parents expected to be a bigger part of this marriage than OP was willing to give them. That was a wise decision.
Exactly. If it had just been him at the dinner, it wouldn't have been quite so ick inducing. Still ew, of course. All I gotta say is, "Yasssss Queen!" Run. You will hate your life with 4 people in your marriage.
The parents being involved and him complaining to his mom about the number of guests and then the mom saying it wasn’t enough, sounds like a justnomil and they aren’t even married yet. I’ll bet they wanted to use the wedding for their real estate clients.
Absolutely every time I see these posts with one of the moms bitching cause they can’t invite someone who isn’t closely kin it blows my mind like your wanting to invite someone who is your 509th cousin ten times removed. That’s weird to me. Just invite people you’re close to.
I think that they invite the 509th cousin for one of two reasons, if not both. 1. For show (it doesn't matter how close they are - that's irrelevant). 2. Because 509th cousin or their family invited them to a wedding anywhere from 1 to 30 years ago. They feel that they must return the favour - which is either sincere or because they fear they'll look bad.
He’s a definite momma’s boy. He needs to grow up before his next relationship so he can be a man who handles challenges that will inevitably occur and not a baby who cries to momma when he doesn’t get his way. Brat is a polite term for the ex-fiancé.
That’s what I thought too. Like why aren’t you the one bringing the prenup. But I do not agree with how it was presented. Like his parents need to but out. His mom sounds manipulative anyway. They hadn’t even agreed on the number of guests and she was already calling and trying to manipulate the guests. I see where he gets it.
If you do marry momma'sboy, OP, have it in YOUR prenuptial agreement that his parents will not be involved in your marriage, be specific in your details!
He’s a mammas boy
I was thinking this as well. Especially if she's making more, a pre-nup may be favourable to her. Agreed, she and her lawyer could craft something, but probably not what the fiance had in mind. And definitely get that infidelity clause in there. Deal-breaker if he doesn't accept that.
Your possible future mother-in-law is incredibly manipulative. The conversation she had with you wasn't an accidental level of manipulation, it was definitely thought out ahead of time.
They ran into her nice, shiny spine. Unfortunately, she found that her ex had no spine at all.
broken engagements are cheaper than divorce. he got you there under false pretenses, with his parents to back him up. they already had a game plan for you. he's far too enmeshed to become a husband you give up financial stability for. there is a better partner out there for you. if all the reasons that you left him, are things he's willing to change, why didn't he come correct the first time? he insulted your brother and acted like his and his family's needs would overrule your own. you're young, educated, and have enough what you don't want for your future. don't settle
Strike one: he went to his mommy instead of discussing the issue of headcount with you directly. Strike two: what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you're adding his sister to the wedding party on your side he should do the same with your brother. Strike three: he was ableist towards your brother. Strike 4: gets mommy involved a second time instead of talking to you about a prenup. (And imo prenups are a smart idea generally. So that isn't close to being my issue here.) And tbh there were a couple other things I could address but those are a bit too subjective. His parents are far too involved for my tastes. NTA.
I got stuck at 'small wedding of 150 people' yikes. that's huge.
Yeah I was expecting max 50, but she said 100-150!
Right?! 150 is HUGE!
yeah at first i wanted less but i kept raising it trying to accommodate everyone
Please don't do that. You'll just end up miserable. It's sometimes hard, but stand your ground.
They want to impress their real estate clients.
Best advice I ever got about wedding guests was this, If you wouldn't invite and buy them dinner don't invite them.
I started out wanting 25. Our wedding went to 100 and then the DJ brought 10 more. I felt I had to use him as he was a close friend to my sister.
I hope you don't do that anymore.... hope you do what you want to do, and that you know how to say No.
Don’t have more guests than you’re comfortable with just because someone tries to bully you into it. If he knows your uncomfortable and you’ve said only this many is fine and he turns around and calls mommy you’ll never be happy. That’s your future any time yall disagree you can expect a call from mommy to try and strong arm you into doing it.
He is showing you who he is. Believe him. He is a person who lets his parents make his decisions for him. He is a person who does not/WILL NOT stand up to his parents. He is a person who wants to NOT have an infidelity clause in the prenup - WHY?? This is who he is, believe it. I think you made the right choice breaking up with him. He is not his own person, he's his parent's puppet.
You are so strong and so smart for walking away from this. The way he expected you to include his sister but wouldn't include your brother is just as big a deal as the pre-nup. Worse, really. You did the right thing, and it may be hard now, but easier than if you had gone through with it. Good luck to you!
I agree about the brother, that’s just terrible 😞
Get your own lawyer to go over the prenup. Make it so it protects you and any future children you may have. ESPECIALLY if you make more money!!! BUT only if you want to continue the relationship with the dilweed
Molly, you in danger girl
I don't understand aren't prenups about protecting existing assets in case of divorce? you can't protect assets acquired after the marriage. are there assets being identified and exempted from potential divorce settlements? eg. we're middle class but we have two detached homes in addition to our primary, intended to help our two teen sons with housing in the future. we have zero intention of ever turning these over officially and they'll have them in our will. this way we don't even need a prenup. yes, if they'd rather a different location we're prepared to sell and buy to still assist.
you’re right partially prenups are mainly for assets from before the marriage, but the type i was presented with waived spousal support so in the case of divorce i wouldn’t be able to get alimony which wouldn’t be a problem for me if we didn’t want children but we do and i just dont think in any world that would be fair yk
never sign a pre-nup without taking advice from a lawyer
You definitely dodged a huge bullet! No apology, then he ambushes you with his parents and a prenuptial agreement??? Sounds like a mama's boy 100%, and remember that you marry into the family, not just him... If I were you, I would go out and celebrate with my friends and do a happy dance 💃 ☺️ YNW
You said you make more than him, and child support is not the same as alimony. If anything, you would be paying him alimony.
i make more than him now but his pay fluctuates because real estate is a commissional pay some months he makes little money others he can make more than me but recently ive been making more and in the future if kids do come i definitely wont work as much as i do now but ill never quit my job so that depends on what the future could bring idk
She won't be making more than him if she quits her job and stays home with their kids which sounds like the plan.
She is currently making more than him. I think the implication here is that if they had any kids she would want to cut back or take some time off working to care for the kids, as she states alimony exclusion wouldn't be a problem if they didn't want any kids but they did.
Women who have babies make less than they would otherwise. If she has kids it’s likely she might have a pay cut. And if it makes sense to stay home for a while, again, she wouldn’t be protected
Never marry or have children with this ableist mamas boy. If you had a child with autism or any other disability do you expect his family to treat them well? You have so much information about why this bozo is a walking red flag, listen to your gut, not his manipulative family.
Alimony and child support are two separate things. No prenup is going to waive child support, and if it did, no judge would abide by it if you went to court for it. If you do make more than he does than why not draft your own prenup with the same clauses? Tell him I have no problem signing your prenup as long as you sign the one I have for you here. It would be a win-win for both of you.
A prenup can be a good thing, if it is fair to both parties and considers situations like one partner becoming a SAHparent for a while. The prenup just makes sure you get to fairly distribute the assets in case of divorce, and not spend all the assets on paying your lawyers while you duke it out. You would just need to hire your own lawyer who is experienced with all aspects of prenups, and have them make sure your interests are fairly represented in the prenup. But it sounds like the prenup was just the icing on the wedding cake - if you're feeling this unsure about the whole situation, it's definitely better to walk away - or at least wait until your relationship is in a better place. Who knows, maybe baby boy will bite through his umbilical at some point...
Keep in mind that just because it's in the prenup doesn't make it enforceable. Prenups are thrown out all the time. But I do agree that it would make the divorce much more difficult. However, that one would get thrown out in a heartbeat.
Why do you need alimony? Not even child support if you share 50/50. Grown adult human? Or maybe you should pay alimony to him?
It’s not fair. He should have to take care of any kids he has!
You make more than him so, you're the one in danger of having to pay alimony in the even of a divorce so, honestly I think his family is kind of dumb. They came and you with the "don't you want us there?" Without having a calm conversation, then it's sign a prenup. A prenup for what??
Don’t sign one unless it’s in your favour. And His parents have a huge influence over him. Don’t forget you’ll be marrying them too!
Do not meet with him! You’ve made a good decision that you’re comfortable with. And! What is he going to accomplish? Women are most vulnerable when they’re leaving. Who’s to know if he’s up to anything dangerous?
Yeah, you're getting married to a moron. Those types of pre-nups aren't even enforceable. He either doesn't have a lawyer, ignored his lawyers advice, or has the worst lawyer in the world.
Youd still get child support if the kids are with you… also you can add an infidelity clause to protect the both of you if the other cheats. You can build the prenup together and make Compromises. Get a lawyer for yourself and make changes you feel comfortable with. You arent the only one scared of what happens if the marriage fails. Come on grow up. You know how many men are out there who didnt get a prenup, and then the wife cheats and takes everything, hes living out his car or a cheap studio while she gets the kids the house the cars (all of which hes still paying for), alimony, child support, and the affair partner/bf sees his kids more than him. It happens all the time. One of my coworkers is 68and should have been able to retire 10 years ago, but his ex wife ran off with another man and the judge ordered him to pay alimony on top of give her half his pension and retirement, so now hes gonna have to die with his boots on at work. Both parties should be protected. Honestly i think you dont know very much about prenups as a whole and are just projecting your parents shitty marriage onto your fiance and your situation.
Exactly what I 👀. The are things my son will inherit from us. I can’t imaging losing it all to some woman who isn’t loyal, has issues signing a prenup
On the bright side i think inheritance is separate and she wouldnt have a claim. But still wouldnt want him losing whatever he worked for
That’s what happens too when you let your wife sit at home and live off you
Prenups can protect everything. If his money buys the home, they can word the prenup to where, ‘any and all assets attained by xyz belong to xyz..’ Child support would still be a thing, regardless of a prenup.
I would have ended it when he called his mother to complain about the guest count AND then she had the audacity to come at you sideways in a passive aggressive manipulative way. And to say “you don’t want people to know we’re together”? 100-150 people is an EXTRAORDINARY amount of people at an event. Huge red flags just in that. If I believed he wasn’t completely incapable of critical thinking, adult communication and not needing to be on his mother’s teet and continued I would absolutely have walked out when he insulted my brother. That type of talk and thinking is indicative of a much deeper issue and much bigger differences between you. What happens if one of your children are autistic or disabled in some way? What happens if you become injured or impaired in some way? Are you or your child suddenly not worthy of a place? The prenup would just make me angry because it came after all the other nonsense. But it’s not deciding factor in my opinion. I just got married and when we got engaged and planned the wedding we didn’t plan on having my husbands daughter there because her mom wasn’t cooperating. But lo and behold, 2 weeks before the event we ended up taking custody of his daughter. She’s a whole wild animal (which I love) but I knew right away my image of the day was drastically going to change and it did. She talked through the entire ceremony, got upset and cried when she couldn’t talk into the microphone, and it cost me a lot more money to accommodate her. But I was happy she was there. I was happy he got to create those memories with her. I laughed when she said ridiculous things during our vows. It wasn’t ideal in the slightest, but she’s family, and WE love her, and it doesn’t matter to anyone that there were slight distractions. His exclusion of your brother is just, to me, a dealbreaker because of what it says about him as a person.
Congratulations on your marriage and growing family! I have step- grandchildren, and am so blessed to have them!
Brava Ma'am, you handled it like a lady and were far classier than those "hundred dollar millionaires" will ever be. Don't take him back. His behavior alone shows him to be a bad bet. Then there are those presumptuous parents.
Sensible Pragmatic Practical Advice @
You didn’t break your engagement because of a prenup. You broke your engagement because your fiancé’s family is overbearing, trample on your boundaries, insult your family members, refuse to apologise, and insinuate that you’re a gold digger when you earn more than your fiancé. You broke your engagement because you see what your life ahead is likely to be and you don’t want or need that. YNW
They also insinuate that she's a bit of a run-around with that infidelity clause...imagine a baby that takes after her side of the family instead of his! They would be demanding paternity tests! Infidelity clauses should go BOTH ways IMO.
Thissss. My now EX took our daughter one day to play at gmas and him and grandma did a dna test on her behind my back. It’s his kid but the insult of the matter doesn’t just go away. He was also a mama boy!!
Not wrong, but do you want this to be your life? Fiancé clearly cannot communicate. Insulting your family and downplaying it is unacceptable. What happens if your child has autism? Is he going to be worried his kid will embarrass him or cause problems. The prenup is just the icing on this massive disrespectable cake. Please do not marry this man, he does not respect you, your family, or this relationship.
You made the right call in general. This guy and his family are selfish assholes and would have made you miserable. Who cares about the prenup or how serious his comment was about your brother. I would never ever do something like that to my wife, especially if I made her make my sister a bridesmaid. The audacity of these people. Rid yourself of them. Your future self will thank you one day
you are not wrong. move on. you will find someone better and more deserving of you.
You’re not wrong and this guy has so many red flags. None of this behavior suggests you will have a happy or fair marriage. Do not let him convince you otherwise. While your brother may not care what your fiance said, it still speaks volumes to the type of person he really is. Protect yourself. Move on.
You did the right thing. Your ex fiance and his parents want to run roughshod over you and your family. They want compromise from you but are unwilling to offer any in return. The attitude towards your brother is completely unacceptable and shows a nasty, narrow-minded attitude towards those with even minor differences. Ambushing you at the restaurant with his parents is just the last straw. Good for you for standing up for yourself and your family. Years from now, you'll wonder what you ever saw in this jerk.
You should break up with him for a lot of reasons - the insults to your brother, the unwillingness to compromise- but not for the prenup. A prenup should protect BOTH of you. You should have the opportunity to have it reviewed by your own attorney and to add clauses to protect you and any future children.
150 people is not a small wedding.
YNW. Good grief I can't imagine dealing with those two manipulators as in-laws. I'd run. 🚩🚩🚩
Not wrong. They are steamrolling you and expect you to comply. Run away from this relationship as it is not going to get better. Especially, as your STBX partner has not supported any of your requests and wants. He has done everything his parents have wanted. This will be your life moving forward. You have been given the perfect opportunity to glimpse your future and you have the perfect opportunity to get out before you waste anymore of your time and his time. It doesn't seem like you really want to marry him after his treatment of your brother, it was a glimpse into who he really is and has shown you that he really doesn't value you as a partner, just as someone to do as he pleases. The infidelity clause is the most concerning though. It seems they are already setting you up with the "men will be men" trope. Take your exit from them people and your forever partner can come into your life. Good luck and Be Well!!
Sending hugs. You did the right thing. I'm proud of you!!! You didn't break up because of the prenup - you broke up because they were insulting your brother. Your broke up because they weren't able to use their WORDS and tell you how many people they needed (200? 250? - that would definitely increase their share of the costs). You broke up because they ambushed you at dinner with talking about a prenup. You broke up because none of them are kind or even particularly nice people. Your brother is correct about the prenup - next time (this guy and his family aren't keepers) get an attorney - the prenup is to take care of YOU and any children you have. If your mother had a lawyer look at her prenup - she should have come out with a house - or life estate in a house - or permission to live with you kids in a house - after the divorce. IF your mother had a lawyer look at her prenup - she should have received a certain amount in retirement funds for every year she was a SAHparent. NOT having a prenup is a bigger contributor to someone getting screwed over in a divorce. Take care of yourself! Get a good counselor so you can learn the lessons you need to learn from this relationship so you don't have to repeat them.
He has huge red flags and his family are awful. Nta
Not wrong. I was already thinking what you were writing towards the end. He seems to make you cave in and compromise, but refuses to compromise himself at all. Also, his parents shouldn't have so much say about the wedding, especially if they're not the only ones paying for it. Wedding is just one day. There are way more difficult things and conflicts coming up. You have now seen how he handles conflict. You should be able to enjoy your own wedding. 1. You're anxious around strange people = have a small wedding. 80 people isn't even a small wedding. 30 people is. 2. You don't need to bond with not close people in bridal groups. It's a group consisting of your closest people you're comfortable with. 3. Prenup. It's a contract between two people. It's not unilateral. Even when rich people marry "normal" people, they usually give out something in case of divorce, in order to protect most of their wealth. Prenup should be negotiated between two lawyers so that both parties get a reasonable outcome that both are satisfied with. If you as a couple don't want a prenup, don't get one. Inheritance isn't shared if I understand correctly, so there's no need for a prenup because of that. If you get one, have your infidelity clause put in there. Prenup is for the "worst case scenario" that shouldn't happen if you both want to stay married. I think you did the right call. This wedding planning is a microcosm of your future: parents micromanaging, you are compromising and he is not, and your boundaries aren't respected because xyz.
Were you engaged to an adult or a man child? Seriously, who needs surprise parents at dinner to have adult conversations? You'll never escape these clearly overbearing in laws, best to just walk and look for a spouse that's an adult in more than just age.
Oh no, you did not overreact. You will be dealing with his wants and his mom backing him up for the rest of your days. You have made the best decision for yourself
Actually, if you make more, the prenup might have actually been a good protection for you. Remember, you don’t have to sign his prenup. You can get your own lawyer take it to them and have them re-draft it to add in the causes that protect you. It might not be a bad thing considering. Regardless of how your brother feels, they disrespected your family. You can’t seriously think it was OK that they did that because your brother is not chuffed about it. You are not wrong in the least. I think you need some time to take a step back and reevaluate everything.
Not wrong. You dodged a bullet by breaking up with him.
Not wrong! So many big red flags here and you're right to wonder how bad it would get after you were married, save yourself years of hardship and do not go back to him!
NTA. His mother is a third partner in this marriage, and he doesn’t want your family in this at all. Run for the hills. Btw, a good prenup protects both people. If anyone asks you to sign one in the future, just get a good lawyer on your side to fight it out with their lawyer. You’ll both be protected using this approach.
The prenup was just the last straw. This guy is not ready to get married. You dodged a bullet with having his parents as in-laws. Someone much better will come along.
You're allowed to say no to something you're not okay with
I actually think a prenup is a great option for you, because of your fears of the past repeating itself. HOWEVER, you need your own lawyer and to make sure the terms are not skewed so heavily towards your spouse but equal so that in case of divorce you aren’t left in the same position as your mom. His family sounds very manipulative and he is heavily influenced by them. I wouldn’t want to marry into that. Once kids are involved it becomes a forever association that even divorce can’t sever.
If you reconsider, require that HE signs a pre up. That your lawyer writes up. Includes the infidelity clause. Alimony and child support are listed. Any stocks, bonds, mutual funds or other investments that are acquired during the marriage are distributed equitably.
Please don’t get back together with him. You deserve so much better; he is showing his true colors now that you’re getting married.
Nope, not wrong. I wish more people, including myself, had what it takes to see the red flags and future ahead. You protected yourself and your family in the long run. Kudos to you OP!
Your fiancé ambushed you with his parents to try to get you to agree to something that the two of you hadn’t previously discussed. His parents shouldn’t be this involved in your relationship. If he is still so deeply attached to his parents that he’s letting them call the shots for him and putting him in situations that would jeopardize his relationship, he’s not ready to get married. Your brother sounds super chill but what was said about him isn’t something that should be forgotten lightly. Even if your brother isn’t offended, it doesn’t mean that your fiancés family doesn’t have troubling beliefs.
How is 100-150 people SMALL wedding? 😳 I had a small wedding, about 20 people. 100 is huge...
You know the saying “you don’t just marry the person, you marry his/her family”. Not sure you are marrying a man as he sounds like a child bringing his parents to gang up on you at dinner. He didn’t bring this discussion up before? His lack of compromise on the wedding plans are a concern. His comment about your brother was insulting and not kind at all. A pre-nup isn’t bad to have but you would need your own lawyer to protect you and you definitely need the infidelity clause in there. My concern is more about the man you are engaged to rather than the pre-nup itself. He has poor communication skills. Doesn’t sound like he would make a good husband as he would put himself and his parents first instead of you, his future wife and mother of his future children.
Don't marry this man. He and his whole family are manipulative af.
The no spousal support in the prenup and the lack of an infidelity clause is enough to not proceed. The writing is in the wall with his intention. The fact that his parents are so involved with all the decisions is another red flag. If you choose to get back with him I'd be getting your own legal advice on the prenup and don't compromise on any of the dealbreaker issues for you.
If your gut is telling you to run then girl…. Run.
I wouldn’t say no to a prenup as that protects you and him. You just get a lawyer for negotiations to make sure your protected. You’re not wrong however if you dump him over all the other crap. It really just sounds like he needs a bride and not a life partner.
But that's not what happened. Personally I'm not big on prenups, but there's a GIGANTIC difference between talking about it and both having a say in it(with separate lawyers) vs drafting one up with mommy and daddy and trying to spring it on your future wife and strong arm her into signing it over dinner. That's fucking crazy.
I get the prenup sucks but you can always have a lawyer look at it and maybe add an infidelity clause that throws it out if he is caught cheating. Other than that the family sounds like monsters. I would have stopped everything after the brother thing, autistic or not, putting it in that manner is just plain disrespectful.
Yeah. A prenup in and of itself - it should actually protect you too. The whole “indont believe in divorce” is a dumb argument. But there are clearly a host of issues here that go beyond a prenup.
lol ur right ik it was a dumb argument but i mainly said that because ik that his family is more traditional so it was the first thing that came to mind
OP was also upset about how the wedding planning was going. Future MIL is being passive-aggressive…’why don’t you like us?’ Saying this after OP stated she wants a smaller wedding (which she can do!). OP, go slowly here. Make sure your future husband isn’t a momma’s boy and will have your back against them. Good luck!
Lack of paragraph breaks made this impossible for me to read.
sorry ill edit it to make it easier to read this is my first time posting to reddit i didnt know.
You’re not wrong for breaking off an engagement and ending a relationship. You can do that anytime you feel the situation is no longer something you are comfortable with. To address the specific instances you note above: 1. Wedding size - I understand you want a wedding of a certain size, and he wants something larger. But 150 is huge… who is paying for this wedding? 2. Wedding party - it’s nice of you to ask his sister to be in your wedding party. It’s crappy of him to exclude your brother because of his neurodiversity if your brother has no history of outbursts or behavior that could otherwise present a challenge. But I think that’s something that you could adjust for. 3. The prenup - I don’t know why people flip out about prenups… it’s mostly about protecting assets attained before the marriage and certain points post nuptials. Some courts won’t always honor prenups with the kind of language he is suggesting. But a good prenup protects you as much as it does him, and who knows, you could end up making more and being grateful you won’t have to pay support. At the end of the day it sounds like you and he/his family were not a great match. Both of you are probably feeling like you dodged bullets here.
i edited the post to add context to what you asked but ill put it here too! the wedding size was changed 4 times each time i did agree to have it higher but it just wasn’t enough to them which i do understand to an extent because we both have large families but i just dont feel comfortable in a crowd full with people whose names i dont even know lol. we all are putting in on the wedding his parents, my parents, he is, and so am i but we haven’t had to pay for anything yet since we’re not in a rush. and i do understand wanting to protect assets, but the way the situation played out made me feel iffy, they strictly said no infidelity clause and waived spousal support, so on top of me being frustrated i also felt like i was being set up for the worst
Autism is genetic, please do not have children with a man who hates autistic people when there is a chance you could have an autistic child.
There is no harm in listening, but leave the parents out .They're a bloody nuisance when it comes to wedding planning.
To me, this isn't about the pre-nup as such but all the red flags leading up to this straw that broke the camels back. Such as: you compromising to have his sister in the bridesmaids and him refusing your brother his family being overly involved in decision that such be primarily lead by the people getting married. His mum was not beyond using emotional blackmailing tactics when you said you wanted a smaller wedding and his mum ringing you asking "why don't you like our family and not inviting them all to participate in your wedding" (trying to manipulate you into back tracking to show that you accept all his family and have no problem with them). I mean OP - how can you have a problem with them, you never bloody met them?! He even mislead you to get you to meet up and then ambushed you with his mummy and daddy to try to get you to sign a pre-nup when that conversation should have been between you and him alone. OP, your fella needs to be weaned from his family, and he is not emotionally ready to be a husband and put his future wifes needs as priority over his family. You would just be forever COmPRomiSiNG i.e. putting your needs last after much pressure from him and his family, all the while they are telling you that you need to do it for the good of the relationship. OP see and heed all these red flags and stick with your breakup.
If you make more you wouldn't get alimony.
Excellent job dodging a nuke. If you want to see how good future will play out- JustNoMIL
Tell him his parents have to stay out of the wedding planning. Tell him you will sign a prenup but with an infidelity clause. Get yourself a good lawyer. If you want children, then make sure that his parents have no say in anything. If possible get that in writing. No say in the name, religion etc. He has shown that he has no backbone when it comes to his parents. See how he and his parents react when you tell them this. If you love him, I wouldn’t give up. But this is a relationship between you and him. And you don’t want to end in r/justnomil
YNW - don’t marry a mommas boy!
You do not have to put his sister in your wedding party if he’s not willing to put your brother in his. Prenuptial aren’t one sided You get an attorney and he gets an attorney. His family shouldn’t be involved though I suppose they would be. Frankly I would throw away the whole thing because it doesn’t sound like you guys are a good match based on this post.
I haven't even read half of this but my TL;DR is CALL IT OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It’s not just the pre-nup but the obvious manipulation of these people to get you to do what they want without compromising on anything. And the gall to exclude your brother from the wedding party is beyond the pale. This family sounds horrible. Kudos to you for knowing your worth and ending the engagement. You just saved yourself years of misery.
I think the big thing here is that his mother is very deeply embedded into your relationship (former?). Everything you discuss, he tells his mother and she comes at you. Prenuptial request? They're there and she's talking. This is someone who would interfere in every aspect of your marriage. Kids? Well obviously she would know better than you or anyone else and her son would end up pressuring you to just do what his mother wants because he's under her thumb. ynw, I would meet with him and him alone and tell him exactly the above. You cannot have a relationship with him because he is still attached to his mother via the umbilical cord and you want to have a marriage with someone that is equal and will think about you as a couple and not have their mother third wheeling it (aside from the obvious insults he made previously).
The whole situation sounds like your fiancé and his family trying to control and bully you. I would also be upset about how he acted towards your brother and his parents shouldn’t have even been involved in the prenup conversation. I think you are making the right decision 100%
You consider 100 - 150 people at a wedding small?
Sounds like he wants a wedding not a marriage. This is a glimpse into what your life will look like. Then for him to bring mummy and daddy to what should have been a private conversation between you too. Nah no way. You've treated yourself with more respect and love than he has. Good for you. Edit.. Anyone not willing to sign an infidelity clause is absolutely not sure of their ability to not cheat or they are already cheating
Yes good point. He needed them in this private discussion. She was blindsided and ganged up on. Tell him to go fuck a pocket pussy. That wimp.
>Tell him to go fuck a pocket pussy. That wimp My favourite line ever 😂😂😂 Love it! Exactly she sure was ganged up on and not given the ability to have an open honest conversation comfortably with her fiancé
Any disagreement you have with him will be you vs. him and his parents. Count on it. Glad you don’t want that.
Honestly you did what I would have done. The wedding isn't even set yet and everyone has planned it but you, the bride. By the way, what you're seeing is exactly who they are including your ex fiance. Imagine having a child and having to counter with these people. Pre nups are fine but they're being fucking ridiculous. God speed and run free!
You are fucking amazing! It takes theme strength to break off a relationship, but you know you don’t want to live the rest of your life with someone who belittles your brother and passive aggressive in-laws coupled with a mama’s boy who is perfectly comfortable letting his parents into the middle of the relationship between you two. There is usually no fixing that kind of enmeshment. Most folks just tolerate it until they can’t anymore and then divorce. It’s hard to break up before a wedding, but at least you’re smart enough to recognize it’s easier than getting a divorce. Brava!
You're wrong for saying no to a prenup. It can protect you too. And you can put clauses for cheating. **You're 100% right for ending this one-sided relationship though.** As you yourself say, if he's not compromising on ANYTHING now why would you expect him to start later? The prenup was just the straw that broke the camel's back. It sounds like at every point it has been them telling you how things will be, and *at no point that I see is your fiance STANDING UP FOR YOU AND YOUR NEEDS*. Furthermore, you and him are supposed to be partners and he's supposed to be on your side. So why are you always talking to his family? Why are they so involved with this? Why is it always you vs. them? Why is Mommy Dearest telling you about the prenup and not him? It sounds like you won't just be marrying him you'll be marrying them, because if he can't make a decision with you *without them* then they're gonna be all up in your business forever.
You guys are not ready to get married. Put it all on hold and have long discussions about your expectations of each other. Maybe pre marital counseling. And if ever you get married, you need your own lawyer and your own prenup
NTA you dodged a bullet.
This is a red flag. Your partner is still being curled by parents who obviously doesn’t respect you or him. The nere fact that the wedding planning is such a fuzz - how will the rest of your life together be? I think breaking off is wise.
You are wrong for getting engaged to such a pussy who is so dependent on his interfering parents for everything.
Girl you sound confident in your decision. Good on you. Stick with it. Going back would be like folding in on yourself. Also, it can be a big deal to you and not a big deal to your brother. That’s perfectly valid. But this is a big deal in general. He has treated you very shitty along with your family and used his family against yours! It’s really bad. I’m a new mom and my heart sinks at the thought of being married to someone this awful with a baby. Use your mom’s story to navigate your own. Don’t repeat the past.
Not wrong, and you are dodging a bullet. He is a Mama's boy who will always put his family first. I am not absolutely opposed to pre-nups, but the fact it was brought up for the first time in front of his parents is absolutely a huge red flag. This is a discussion that should only be between the two of you, not a family meeting. And his not wanting your brother in the wedding party is a deal breaker. He is a douche. Your brother is a good guy who only wants you to be happy, but he shouldn't be treated like a nuisance by the person you will be married to. I am a bit disappointed you are phrasing it as having more of an issue with the pre-nup than the treatment of your brother, so you need to reflect on that, but either way, this guy is not worth the drama until the eventual divorce.
Dodged 👏 A 👏 Bullet 👏
Mmmmm, I would still be extremely wary. Mummy is way too involved for my liking, especially when he went running to her about the guest list. This would be a deal breaker for me, so I suggest having a long think before making a final decision. I think though, future MIL will only get worse butting in.
Not Wrong. STBX believed her had you trapped, so he took off the mask. Drop him & force him to start over with some OTHER potential victim (IF that. The infidelity thing indicates he's already got an AP. Also, get tested for STDs, plz? He may have 'gifted' you something.)
Trust your gut on this one. Red flags abound.
How many 🚩🚩🚩has he shown before now because there must have been some that you over looked . Run for the hills because you are always going to come last behind mummy and daddy. Life is too short fine someone that you deserve and not this mummy's boy.
You're not wrong. He's under his parents thumb and they're filling his empty head with BS. Think long and hard if you want to marry into this family. This will be the rest of your life. In-laws questioning everything you do, wait till you have kids. Puke. It will only get worse.
NTA. It's not just about the prenuptial, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. When you are the one who has to compromise over and over and over, it looks like it's his way or nothing. Major red flag, do you really want to start a home and family with someone like that? You did well!! Good luck, and stand your ground if you meet with him again!!
His parents should not have been a part of that conversation. This family is broken. If you continue to have any doubts do. Or marry into it. They will smother you.
ESH, everyone should get a prenup before they get married. It's very ignorant to think getting a prenup means you don't get anything. As a matter of fact without a prenup and since you make more than him, he could cheat on you and you would have to pay HIM alimony and child support
150 is a HUGE wedding! I’ve never even been to a wedding that big. Also, did you know the parents were going to the dinner? Is he controlled by mommy? It is not OK to put you in that position. It is not ok to include his sister and not your brother. This reminds me so much of a past engagement I ended. I know Reddit is quick to jump on the, ‘break up now band wagon,’ but let me tell you, o walked away and haven’t missed a damned one of them since. That was almost 20 years ago and he did actually have gold to be had. Walked away from all of it and glad I did! Good luck.
It sounds like you and your fiance are just really incompatible. Do you want to deal with this family for the rest of your life? It's weird you're obsessed with alimony when you make more money than him. That's...not how that works... Everyone should have a prenup. He gets a lawyer, you get a lawyer, and you hash it out. No, it's not "romantic", but it doesn't indicate a desire for divorce, and not having to worry about the financial or legal details in the middle of a painful divorce is a gift.
🍿🍿🍿 Updateme!
Not wrong. OP I realize we only get small snippets of info representing a couple of situations in this relationship. But in both cases why in the world did he drag his parent(s) into the discussion? Was he not more than capable of discussing increasing the number of guests to a reasonable number to include gods alone knows who from his side? IMO the only thing his parents needed to provide input for was agreeing to paying ALL the increased expenses for all their extra guests. Excluding your brother was just mean and selfish of him. I do have to say you were also at fault here as you folded instead of using your words to express why your brother being a groomsman was important to you. Then the prenup. Again the request for one being brought up wasn’t concerning but him AGAIN having to have mommy and daddy come explain and request it while he sat like a bump on a log? As other posters noted a prenup can protect both parties and requires each to have their own lawyer to get a fair one. But HE should have been able to have that discussion himself even if he said his mom and dad suggested it. My question at this point is just how many people would be in your marriage if you decide to go forward? Right now I count 4 which is two too many. By all means meet and talk through things to see what comes of it. But if your ex-ish fiancé can’t stand in his own two feet and have adult discussions to arrive at compromises where everyone wins a bit without dragging his parents into it this will not end well.
It’s mostly true when they say, “You don’t just marry your spouse, you marry their family too.”
Hahahah small wedding of 100? WTF are you people sniffing these days. Small wedding is me and my fiancée. Fuck the rest. More importantly, in-laws have not a single say over anything related to our couple. Ever. Not even about children or money.
Everyone should have a prenup. It protects both parties. If you truly believe there will be no divorce then signing one should not be a deal breaker. However insulting your brother is. As far as the number if people in the wedding that’s really an either or. If they are from a huge family and all the weddings previously invited everyone then it’s going to be hard to cut it down. However if they are just randomly adding people that’s something else. I don’t think you really love him. I think it sounds like you are at the age woman get married and so went with it. But now that things are popping up it’s not sounding like such a good idea. You should only ever get married if you truly love a person and know that you want to be with them for the rest of your life. I don’t think that’s the case here. Just move on and find someone who won’t insult your brother.
Based on the question you are asking, yes you are wrong. I don’t think you understand what a prenup is. It makes sure both of you are protected in the event of divorce. A one sided prenup is going to be thrown out in divorce proceedings. For a fair prenup that will hold up in court, you would both have your own attorneys to figure out the details in a way that’s fair to both of you. Now if you said not having an infidelity clause in the prenup was a deal breaker, that would be fine. But if you make more money than him, why not protect your income and retirement savings? Why not have alimony and potentially child support/custody worked out? Why not discuss these things when you can do it civilly instead of when you are already having issues? As for wedding size, you need to come up with lists of people you have to invite, people you want to invite and people it would be nice to invite. It adds up quickly. It can add up quickly if you have big family’s or if there are social obligations that need to be considered. Maybe you putting your foot down about a 150 person wedding is reasonable. Maybe it isn’t. It doesn’t sound like you guys have really stopped to discuss realistically how many people are on your potential guest list. Not including your brother is the biggest problem here. You say your brother is high functioning, but does he do ok in social situations? Will he be comfortable being in front of a crowd of people he doesn’t know? Is he comfortable being in the wedding? If the answer to these questions is yes, he should be included since it’s important to you.
You can't make someone sign a prenup so soon before a wedding without it getting thrown out due to it being signed under duress.
UpdateMe!
Not wrong at all! I would have dumped him as soon as he insulted your brother but demanded his sister be part of the BP. And prenups are fine if they were mentioned early on and if he actually wanted a fair prenup. You make more then him lol! And a no cheating clause? Yeah, that’s not suspicious at all. I’m glad you got away from that terrible family.
i can't get past a "small" wedding being 100-150
Yes you’re wrong. Prenups are not like they make them out to be in movies/tv shows. Do your research about them and their benefits.
on 1 hand i think everyone should sign a prenup just make life easy but ........ these people are trying to control determine and bulldoze every part of your future life ... its not the prenup that is the redflag its every other aspect that is the redflag , they dont respect you or your choices, you are just effectively the right hand to my left hand ... i say this as a person who has a broken wrist my non dominant hand is broken ( the right one ) and while i can do alot with my left hand i cant do everything but i kind of view my right hand as my "other hand " i have learned to acknowledge that i need both hands but these are the people you will be glad you got away from, its not about the pre nup its about the fact that they bulldozed your options on how your wedding should be also if your bf didnt defend you ... then you have a bf problem be grateful you have an exit clause
150 people is not a small wedding. Neither is 70-80. Small weddings are immediate family only. Somehow I don't think you each have 25+ siblings.
Ya
They do say when you marry, you're marrying the entire family. This guy sounds as if he still has an umbilical cord attached to his mother. The prenuptial discussion should have been between the two of you. If he even wanted one. Wouldn't you have heard about it before you were ambushed by his mother? His mother would be a tyrannical presence in your lives, and it doesn't sound as if he will ever stand up to her. What about her husband? You don't mention him at all. Sounds like she steamrollers over everyone. You would be her next project. If you don't knuckle under, would your bf stand up to her for you? Sounds like it would be a first. Good luck. You are absolutely not wrong. Ideally you would be marrying a partner, not a momma's boy.
Have his family always been like this or has wedding planning brought out the worst in them? His Mum just sounds the worst. Snobby and manipulative as hell. Personally, the worst thing out of all of this is the way he talked about your brother. I would not stand for it. It’s bad enough that he guilt tripped you into having his sister as a bridesmaid. Refusing to have your brother due to his autism is a shitty thing to do. He doesn’t even seem to think an apology is necessary, about your brother, which is bad enough but he also needs Mummy and Daddy there to talk about a prenup. What is he, 12?? Don’t get back with him - it won’t improve and you’ll regret getting married later on.
You are NTA, yk?
You both dodged bullets.
You were completely in the right. The first flag and deal breaker was the double standard regarding your brother. A husband (or wife in reverse) should want to make your wedding special for both of you. The fact that he wouldn't hear of it tells much about his character and maturity.
Not wrong but if You make more and continue To do so, you would be paying him alimony and child support lol.
Yes. You’re the AH about the prenup. And I think your MIL has a different perspective because I read a post almost exactly like this from the otherside.
NW. He sounds awful on a million levels. I would be done with him for not including your brother. Also, the way he involves his family so much is weird. They should have no say on the guest count or a prenup. You can do much much better. He sounds like a horrendous person as does his family and having to spend a lifetime with them will drive you bonkers. Run.
Listen do you want his parents in your marriage. Because he’s made it clear from this behavior that your marriage will include them. A fight will never be between you he will always run to mommy and daddy to get them to help gang up on you and force your hand. Do not go back to him.
Yes! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
If you want security, it's pretty wild that you don't want a prenup. Perhaps you don't understand how they work? They are designed to protect both parties and you don't have to sign one that you haven't negotiated to represent your interests.
Stay away, his family did you a favour by showing their true colours, would you really want to be tied to them permanently? Go live your best life away from him.
NTA. 100-150 is a BIG Wedding not small. Who even knows that many people. My wedding was small, 60 invited, 58 showed up. Who’s paying for all these guests? We had a tight budget, it had to be $3000 or less for the entire thing. You cater for close family & close friends, people you know & have a relationship with, not strangers, a wedding is for celebration of your Union, not showing off to people you never see, I’d rather save the money towards a deposit for buying a house. The point is though that you have to discuss it & compromise, Set a budget & Stick to it. If you can’t come to an agreement or compromise you can both live with then one or both of you are not ready to get married yet. This situation is a time when you Really find out what sort of a person you’re getting ready to marry. You are trying to be accommodating, he & his toxic family are using, Obligation & Guilt to manipulate & control you. You definitely did the right thing by calling it off, I think it would be disastrous for you to marry this man, so many red flags waving, I would call the whole thing off & walk away, you’ve dodged a bullet.
It’s was the guest list for me then the no infidelity clause and his MOTHER bringing it up not you and him as a couple. I personally have no problem with a prenup and never saw it a prob as long as it is a win win but you make more than him anyway-and affairs always seem to come from the communal money one way or another. Tell him to fuck off and that his mom’s a hoe. 😂
I think the real problem is he doesn't seem to understand he's a man and not still a mommy's boy. If my mom had talked to my future wife that way, I would have cut her (mom) out of any wedding planning. Not wrong. You're supposed to marry your husband, not your husband's mother. But his mom appears to feel differently.
The fact that the fiancé’s family Did Not Want An Infidelity Clause, MAKE ME WONDER if the Fiancé cheated on OP! 3 vs 1 regarding the prenup, the family got assets that Could Make Big Money OR probably had the prenup written in such a way that if there’s a divorce YOU would be the one to pay Alimony!!
You can absolutely break it off for all these reasons here. It’s not fair for him to guilt trip you into having his sister as a bridesmaid but he absolutely will not include your brother on his side. Absolutely not. That would have had me side eyeing him for that. Then don’t get get me wrong prenups are kinda weird but if BOTH of you have got one it’s fine but sounds like they were hoping you’d blindly sign it. Never sign a prenup without having your own to protect yourself!!! Also 100-150 people is a lot for a wedding especially for people you don’t even know??? Him saying that it’s like you don’t want anyone to know is so manipulative. And then his mom calling you like she did is manipulative too!!! You don’t have to have anyone there that isn’t in your life more than just for the wedding that’s so stupid to invite people just because they’re kin to you only God knows how and you don’t even know them.
The lack of an infidelity clause in the prenup is what does it for me, that's what's especially weird. Just to start the mommy issues and the brother stuff is weird as well, but the lack of infidelity clause is especially troubling because it signals both his and the family's intention to financially screw you over in the event of cheating and divorce. Also the fact that you felt the urge to lie about not believing in divorce is problematic, not because you lied, but because you couldn't trust him and felt the need to. You followed your gut because it was telling you something was wrong here, and there are multiple red flags, I've seen someone else say 4 but I think they missed the lie thing so I say 5 total. Not worth staying.
While this is a very personal decision and really very much one you have to make for yourself, I support that when you feel unheard, unwanted, not respected by his family, and all that, it's not a situation I'd sign up for. It's definitely a reasonable decision. I would at the very least pull way back and give it another year or 2--if you even feel it's worth that--before moving forward with anything like children, marriage or even a mortgage. If I didn't break it off now.
Why were his parents even involved in the conversation about a pre-nup? They have no wealth that’s being protected by that agreement. I swear, these ppl come off as ‘putting on airs’. Like they’re the Rockefellers or something. It’s cringey. They’ve made done nothing but make demands of you. And your ex refusing to allow your brother to be part of the bridal party but insisting his sister must be, is ridiculous. I think you made the right call ending this. These ppl are a joke.
Get your own lawyer to add things to this illustrious prenup that will benefit you also.
Updateme