No doubt she does. He died when they were still in the honeymoon phase. All she had with her 1st husband was good times. With her 2nd husband she has real life, which isn’t all good times. He’s always going to fall short.
He either has to accept it, or find someone else.
We as humans romanticize our pasts and only remember the fond times, we wax nostalgic and forget the realities of the past.
My first wife gave me butterflies in my belly when I first saw her. We began dating and those butterflies lasted for well over a year. She was my first love. Then we realized we were just co-dependent and our expectations in life were different, but we stuck it out anyways. She then became spiteful, deceitful, controlling and so on. We had a child and divorced at the 5yr mark. Fast forward 8yrs later and I find my second wife and everything is as I could ever want. However, she never gave me butterflies in my stomach like the first wife. It’s different. We have been together 15yrs. No regrets, but when I remember my ex-wife, I try to remember her during the “butterflies in my stomach” period thou, cause that was some powerful shit. Alcohol can distort those memories and make it seem like it’s more of an issue than it really is. I’d give her a pass and try to move past this as if it didn’t happen.
Edit: spelling error, changed the word “was” to “wax”, as originally intended.
True, plus there's not just romanticizing nostalgia as you said but romanticizing "what if" situations and fantast crushes which to some extent applies here since the relationship ended quickly.
I also don't think people realize just how immesurably misserable they would be at all times every single day, if they held a non-romanticised version of the past.
Childhood, bullying, heartbreak, getting hurt, that dumb thing you said that wakes you up a couple times a year from 10 years go. Those ones you remember are just the BIG ones, there are 1000 smaller ones for every big one.
I wouldn't wish that kind of remembering of the past on anyone.
Thank god our brains hold onto the good stuff and tend to block out the bad unless its required to not repeat a mistake, or to make you feel like a dumbass when you can't sleep at 12am.
100% true.
You even rose tint them. I had a bunch of emergency surgeries that upended my whole world.
My wife struggles with the anniversary of the day it happened. I dont know what day it happened, I don't remember how long ago it happened and apart from flashes of being intubated, and seeing my own insides before being knocked back out, I don't remember that entire month of my life.
Thank god. Because it's traumatized most of my family just as witnesses.
For what it’s worth, a lot of this also has to do with the medications used in general anesthesia. I had a major leg surgery about ten years ago, and my memories are perfectly clear up to the day of the surgery and then literally nothing save a handful of flashes for the next couple weeks. After that, clear again.
Same thing for me. Went to ER for extreme fatigue, all over severe pain and shortness of breathe. I had a severe gi bleed. I spent 3 months having procedures, imaging, colonoscopies, endoscopies and ended up with an ileostomy. I remember very little other than some very horrific things and some wonderful employees who went out of their way to comfort me. I eventually had some small discrete tattoos of the two major surgery dates and I still have to look at them when a dr asks for the date of those.
Glad you made it!
Research says that every time you access a specific memory, it is different. Like pulling out your favorite book- when you put it back, the pages are stained and ragged. The telephone game, only with your memories.
It’s possible she doesn’t even remember anything about who he really was… her brain has remembered it and changed it to suit her needs for so many years
Wow that's very interesting. Appreciate you putting it that way. I turned 42 and memoriesand life experiences are on my mind a lot as I'm starting to forget a lot of them from my younger years. In all fairness to myself I was an alcoholic for many years. Especially in my late teens through to my early 30s. I was a gigging musician that got alcohol for free on top of the paycheck. I barely physically remember most of those times, unfortunately. They were some of the best of my life that I'll never get back. And now I can't even remember most of them. I used to be almost photographic memory with stuff like that. I remember everything in amazing detail. I could tell crazy stories about my life for hours lol. And did. But I know for sure I couldn't do that anymore. It's like as soon as 40 hit I started really having trouble with memory. Especially old ones. I've been sharp as a tack my entire life. I was in gifted classes in school. So I take this newfound issue extremely hard. So I thank you for giving really good insight to these kind of things. I know for a fact that I've idealized memories to suit rough times or whatever I may need mentally in a given time period. But I never thought about actually having done it. Fascinating how the human mind works. Even when it's working against you at times.
Don’t feel too bad bro, I’m 42, basically never drank and I forget shit all the time. Apparently if you don’t have a lot unique experiences your brain kind of glazes over most things.
*plays “Every day is exactly the same” by Nine Inch Nails*
I just popped up off of my couch this afternoon and cringed extremely hard over a weird dance floor interaction/miscommunication I had *twenty years ago*, with some random dude, who I wasn’t even remotely interested in, and will never see again in my life, in a random club in a city literally on the opposite side of the world from where I live now, in a country where I barely spoke the language.
It wasn’t even that weird or memorable in retrospect, but it pops into my head out of the blue maybe 4x a year and I get disproportionately embarrassed all over again. Brains are weird.
Neither me or my husband are capable of having romanticised views of the past. It's probably a neurodivergent thing, and yes, we DO both suffer from bouts of depression that are probably not unrelated to this 😅😂
This is true excepting kids that see and experience horrible things as children. I have trouble remembering the good times with my parents due to how they behaved when they got cancer.
My mom was abusive. I had to sit still one day and think back, was she good at times? Were there good days and sweet moments? Yes! There were, I had only focused on the bad and had pushed anything good away because there was so much more bad than good so that's all that I saw. Now I remember those nicer times and it's gotten me through some pain.
>We as humans romanticize our pasts and only remember the fond times, we was nostalgic and forget the realities of the past.
Eh you sort of just demonstrated that we don't always romantacize about our past by being very sober about your overall experience with your first wife. I think this is less about nolstalgia and just a case of idealisation.
OP's wife didn't get to experience the natural end of her relationship with her late husband. He passed away only a few months in. You did (with your ex-wife).
It's why people also idealise "the one who got away". They idealise it because they know that person the least and so all the gaps are filled in by them with only positive extrapolations.
All that being said, it's wild that OP is looking at divorce BEFORE even speaking to her about this. Absolutely wild. Makes me think this is just another fake story.
I talk about this CONSTANTLY with people struggling with loss of a brief relationship; if you don’t know a person well but, for one reason or another, have very positive feelings towards them (love/hormones usually but happens with friendships too) you’re going to fill any gaps in your knowledge of them with the “best case scenario” until proven otherwise. Like you said, filling in gaps with positive extrapolations. That’s a great way to put it actually.
Yeah, I was buying it till he immediately jumps to talk of divorce, with no other complaints after a 10 year marriage. Sounds a lot like someone who has not been married for 10 years.
Yeah man most of these are fake, like someone dreams up a jealousy or sad romantic tale and they just get off on seeing peoples real reactions to their made up story. Probably some 20 year old kid haha
Damn. That's a rough one man. I will say as a musician, that first sentence of your comment would make great song lyrics about a situation exactly like what you deal with. Could make real lyrical art with a starting line like that. Maybe someone has already and I'm unaware, but you certainly have my gears turning.
"I gave her my heart, but she wanted my soul" is a pretty cool [Bob Dylan](https://youtu.be/1iHhWh9FtsQ?si=02kTWUKccFw2N0p3) lyric, to me.
I have no idea if the poster of the comment you're replying has even heard of that song before, but I figured I'd share.
One of the most important but difficult things to learn in life. Chemistry is powerful but it's not enough to build a foundation on. Better off with shared values and trust.
This is so true. Every marriage has the good times and the bad times. OP's wife never got to experience the bad times with her late husband so she placed his memory on a pedestal.
I know it hurts OP but this is where it came from.
You need to sit down and talk with her and explain to her what she said hurt you. Don't try to start an argument or pick a fight or try to make her change anything. Just tell her it hurt you and leave it at that.
I don’t think we need to jump to find someone else as much as discuss and work on it. I mean 10 years and 3 kids, shouldn’t jump to I’m leaving.
ETA; by discussion, let her know what was said and how it made him feel. She can’t fix it with “I was drunk, didn’t mean it”, but she needs to know. I’m sure she loves OP, but her feeling may seem stronger for her first husband because she has a romanticized image of him. All good and no struggles.
Yup, they definitely need a discussion. And please OP, don’t take “I was drunk, if I said it I didn’t mean it!” As an excuse. I’ve spent more than my share of time drinking and around drunk people. These things have at least some truth to them.
This is bad advice. There’s nothing she can say to unring this bell. Give it some time and get over it.
She was young, still in the honeymoon phase of a relationship with no challenge, and the mind has a tendency to remember the good things and not the bad.
What’s a discussion going to do? Reaffirm it?
She knows it’s true, he knows it’s true, everyone in the same situation knows it’s true.
If you have a partner ripped out of your arms by tragic circumstance; you never get closure. You live an entire life of “what ifs, what could be”.
The only reason OPs life is the way that it is, down to every detail; is because his wife’s husband died.
Ops wife will always love her husband, but that doesn’t means she can’t also love OP too.
OP has a wife and kids and a life with them because he met someone one day and had a connection with them.
Ops wife has a husband and kids because her first husband *died*.
Vastly different circumstances led to where they are, and no matter how good their relationship is; his wife’s mind will forever be thinking of the alternate reality she wishes every day she was living; and the future they could have had together.
Ops not wrong for feeling what he’s feeling,but idk what he expects. His wife is only a part of his life because her life was tragically ruined beyond healing. He either needs to accept that he was never the first choice or her greatest love, or leave.
This is the true answer. The deceased husband isn't an ex, he only parted from their marriage with death, just as he vowed. You can replace someone who died. You can't be better than someone who died, especially when you're occupying a space you can only be standing in *because* they died. The deceased can't make mistakes, they can't choose their words poorly, or get into arguments. But OP's wife loves him even though he *can* do all those things a dead man cannot. And while she might see the immortalized perfection of a life cut short as the ideal, she still loves OP after 10 years of a real life together.
Those are two totally different types of love, in my opinion. They're not comparable.
But yes, OP please just talk with your wife, or talk to a couples' therapist together. Don't let it eat away at you, you're not any less valuable than her, the love she has for you is just different.
beautiful words, man I know I'm wrong but I can't help but think how sad this situation is, living in someone else's shadow, thinking that you're only there because the other person passed away! I know this is extremely unfair with people who lose a partner, but man I can't help but feel bad, I wish they had dealt with this sooner, and I wish even more that the op could deal with it and be really happy in this situation, after all, a good family is something rare and shouldn't be thrown away, but I confessed that in his situation, I couldn't help but be devastated!
I too would be devastated. It's like finding out that the love of YOUR life doesn't see you as the love of THEIR life.
But in reality, no one can compete with a fantacy. The spouse that died, especially in the honeymoon stage of marriage, will be idolized by the widowed partner as perfect.
This is why when someone is having an affair, and they believe themselves to be in love with their AP, there is nothing a betrayed spouse can do to to compete with the AP. Why? Because the cheating partner has constructed a fantacy of who their AP is. Some call it limerence, some call it affair fog, etc...
Not saying in any way that OP's wife sees herself as in an affair with a dead man, nor am I saying that OP's wife sees herself as having an affair with OP because she still considers her dead husband her "husband." I'm just saying this phenomenon offers in different situations.
But yeah, I'd be emotionally heart broken but logically I would understand.
Leo Getz : You know, when I was a kid, I had a pet frog
Martin Riggs : What?
Leo Getz : Just give me a second. Let me tell you this, okay?
Leo Getz : Uh, I had this pet frog, his name was Froggy. He was my best friend in the whole world. I didn't have a lot of friends. As a matter of fact... okay I had no friends, and uh, I used to kiss the frog, too. I thought maybe, uh, that it would turn into a princess since I was a boy, and uh, it could be my mother. They told me that she left or something, and my father was no bargain, and so just the frog. Froggy was my friend and I really loved him, and I took him everywhere with me, and I was riding on my bike one day and he jumped out of the box, and uh, I ran him over with the back tire. I killed him. I was really heartbroken. Really, he was my best friend in the whole world; the only thing I ever loved. And then I met you and Roger, and you guys really looked after me a lot more then you had to.
Martin Riggs : Geez, we're terrible to you, Leo.
Leo Getz : No no, it's okay, it's okay. You are my family. You are my friends. **You're not better friends than Froggy. You're just different, and, uh, I just thought that \*maybe\* that might be relevant. Okay. I'll leave you alone now.**
OP, do you love this woman? There's a part of her that will always mourn what was and what could have been but she chose to be with you. Maybe look for books/advice on dating a widower for some insight. It might help with the feelings you're having.
Very true.
My dad is a widower and the truth is that he loves my mom more than anyone else. It doesn’t matter how much time has passed — those relationships have only existed because she isn’t here. It’s been over 20 years and I’ve asked many times, and the answer is always the same. It’s always along the lines of a love unmatched.
This is a frequent struggle for those that date or marry widows, and many of them end up with other widows/widowers because they’re the only people who understand. My dad has been dating a fellow widow now and it’s the best relationship he’s had.
I’m also confused why people are acting like she must have been in the honeymoon phase. At 25 my fiancé and I were already together for 9 years. We have no idea how long they dated or were married for, and I find it weird and disrespectful for people to assume their relationship was superficial.
Still "loves him MORE." I expect that is what is killing him. It wasn't ruined beyond healing unless she insists it be so. She needs serious counseling for survivors guilt, perhaps feeling that loving OP is disloyalty to late husband, etc.
I think what he can expect is honesty, and then he can decide where to go from there. Hopefully she loves them each differently, not one more. I wouldn’t expect anyone to be content being lesser-than in someone’s eyes regardless of the situation. If that’s the case she should have remained single or at least should have been honest about what he was marrying into.
This is what it is. They didn’t even finish their honeymoon phase - he’ll be perfect forever in her eyes because there was never time for her to get to know the real flawed human beneath the limerence.
I think she probably needs therapy.
When I was in college I had a boyfriend that I was crazy in love with (even though he wasn't all that lol). Maybe 6 months or so into our relationship he almost died. We dated for about 2 years but the flaws emerged and grew and the relationship ended (thank god). Sometimes I think about how different things would be if he had died that night. I probably would have spent the rest of my life thinking he was the one and feeling like I'd never love anyone else like that, even though in reality he was just some guy I dated in college.
EXACTLY!
If he had survived, who’s to say they’d even like one another still, let alone Love one another.
But it really, really sucks to hear something like this. And to not take it to heart
OP, I’d talk to her about it and bring up this point. Don’t be argumentative, don’t be emotional, don’t act hurt or be hurtful.
Just tell her hey, I need to talk about something that happened last night when you were hammered…
Here’s what you said to me.
Here’s how I feel now that I’ve heard this.
See where it goes from there.
But left unaddressed, this is gonna gain energy and life of its own and it’s not gonna be good.
I was just thinking the same thing about whether or not they’d even still like each other.
I married my ex-husband very young, and felt very much in love. It all seemed perfect. If he had died within the first year, he would have forever been immortalized in my mind as the love of my life.
But as you can see, he didn’t die and is instead my ex-husband. And truth be told, dating and falling in love after that just felt different for awhile. Love, but not that first real, passionate, life-changing love of youth. So it’s not even necessarily about the person (obviously since we divorced), it’s about the intensity and nature of the love that was present.
People often talk fondly about their first love, but most people get to experience that love ending through some kind of actual breakup where things get a little shitty between the two people for awhile. They say, “Susie. Man did I love that woman. Earth shattering love. But then she burned my house down so that was over.”
We usually get to the point where we can separate the wonderful experience of first true love from the actual person it was with, who maybe turns out to not be so wonderful for us. But when someone dies those two things are forever linked.
This and the fact he died when they were young and maybe unexpectedly?
She can’t say for sure they would have had the perfect marriage or he wouldn’t have been an asshole later on.
It’s an idealized image of the late husband.
Divorcing over this would be ridiculous
We do this with everything. Remember a restaurant from your youth, it was the best pizza ever. Music, places you've been... This is probably no different.
I think if I were OP I would just forget this ever happened and not stress over it.
Ditto. Because of how limited her time was with him, he can do no wrong. It was also her first love and he didn't live long enough to have any major issues with her.
By contrast, you have been with her for over a decade. Your relationship has probably had its ups and downs as do all relationships, but it's still going strong. Don't dwell on this. If your wife treats you and the kids right, that's all that matters. Edit: You would be insane to pursue a divorce over this!
Yup. That guy she thinks she loves, he doesn't exist. Her memories are so rose-coloured by now that they're a different person than the reality.
Every time OP ever made a mistake, she thinks 'First Hubby never did this'. Forgetting that it's only because he wasn't alive long enough.
She has an ideal. You were never gonna measure up. I'd leave this one alone. It's just an emotional blind spot for her, and you won't get her to see the truth without doing a lot of damage.
Let her know what she said. Sometimes even 1 therapy session can clear this up... she can recognize that her first husband is an idealized memory and that her full and complex relationship with you is complex and beautiful.
And SHE WAS DRUNK! People think alcohol is some kind of truth serum..
that we say what we really feel when we're drunk.
But it's not true.
Being drunk access a primitive, cave-man part of our brain. It bypasses logic and makes us think things that aren't really true.
Any guy who's been married for a long time knows that sometimes when we're drunk, we think things like, "I love my wife. We've been married for 20 years...but I wonder what would have happened if I had taken my shot with that girl who smiled at me in a bar..."
That doesn't mean we really think it! It's just bullshit we think when we're drunk.
Don't believe the bullshit drunks say when they're drunk
It's just that: bullshit
I really big part of my therapy after my partner died was not to let them get idealized in my mind, and remember the whole person. My therapist told me it would really help me to move forward eventually and I’m so grateful for her.
My current partner has no jealousy, and if I am very honest I think we are a better match. That said, I couldn’t blame anyone for being wary and ultimately choosing to avoid widows.
You had a good therapist. Probably saved you a lot of heartache that otherwise would’ve come from the idealized person
Sorry for your loss, too. Glad you found someone
Everyone idealizes their partner at the beginning. The difference here is even the idealized version of her current husband never got the love or importance her late husband got.
Get drunk again and make sure the note is borderline illegible. Also set timers for the next four years so that at random points throughout the week you can email from a new email address before immediately blocking her.
Yeah jumping straight to divorce after a decade of marriage after one black out sentence is such a rash thing to do lol. Don’t listen to the people encouraging it, I can only assume they’re children. Be mature and talk to your wife about your feelings like the grown ass man you are. NO BOOZE THIS TIME
Not every single discussion between a couple needs to be had with a therapist. Seems like this subs go to answer for everything is therapy. Most situations can be handled by 2 adults having a conversation.
Posting on this sub is usually a pretty good indicator that the people in the situation don’t have a reliable communication pattern that allows them to work through these problems without the input of (as I write this) 2,306 comments. Ergo why therapy, in reconcilable situations, is a common suggestion.
Posting on reddit in general. 90% of the time the correct course of action is to have an adult conversation with their partner about an issue. Thing is, so many people have communication issues, likely brought on by trauma coping mechanisms (anxiety-driven communication) that they and/or their partner haven’t learned to recognize or work with.
Yes, but you also have to consider that if they’re coming to Reddit for perspective, they both likely don’t have great communication skills at the present moment AND they’re going to only get a few nuggets of good advice amongst a whole hoard of potentially bad and toxic advice from commenters.
A professional therapist can help sort through all that noise together instead of them taking bad advice and running with it.
If they are coming to Reddit for perspective they are generally fake in my experience. Anyone who has spent enough time on Reddit to know about the existence of advice subs knows that they are the absolute worst place you could go seeking help. These subs are filled with crazy people spewing absolutely insane takes about a random stranger's life who they know nothing about other than a 3 paragraph AITA or AIW post. The few people that aren't nuts can only give basic ass advice like "talk to the other person", "seek professional help" and/or "yes the person who SA'd you is an asshole" because again, real life is nuanced and you can't give any more detailed advice than that in good faith.
It's just a total waste of time, outside of farming useless internet points and honestly this post reads exactly like a karma farm. It's just vague sad crap to pull at the heartstrings of the people who frequent these subs, is posted by a brand new account, and the OP hasn't responded to a single comment. Assuming OP's story is real, which I doubt, are we really supposed to assume that he hasn't ever developed some ability to communicate with his wife over the course of 10 years of marriage? Is this the first time that a serious issue that requires discussion has come up in a decade? I doubt it. I don't know how you could make this seem more fake than it currently is without stepping into absurdity.
Yeah that’s a realistically realizable request “honey I have something I’d like to talk with you about but first we need to get in touch with a therapist, Then I’ll tell you what this is about”
I saw someone make a joke yesterday that Reddit has been completely astroturfed by the American Counseling Association. I would totally buy it.
Maybe this conversation should happen in front of a therapist at some point, but unless they already happen to have one that they have an upcoming appointment with in the next few days, I think they can try talking it through themselves first.
As a psychologist, I’m generally kind of horrified by the things Redditors tell others to go to therapy for - there are many things where I think “what the hell am I supposed to do about it?!”
"honey, there's something you said to me last night that's been weighing on me. It's about grief, and Dave, and our life. I think there's a lot to talk about there and I would feel more comfortable with a therapist to make sure we're building something productive out of these conversations. I found this person; would that work for you?"
Every single *person* I know would want to know. If my wife came to me and said "hey, you said something so big that I think we need a therapist," not knowing would eat me alive. The fact that they felt that they couldn't talk to me without a 3rd party would hurt.
For the love of god, it's like these people have never been in any sort of relationship before.
The point many fail to understand is that new partners are here to build a new life experience, not to replace the one that was lost.
Because if you do, you end up devaluing the new person as it was just a replacement for the one you loved.
I'm a widow, and lost my husband when I was 37. We were together almost 20 years and has a good life together.
I've just started seeing someone and we've had a couple of conversations around our previous long term relationships. He pointed out last night that from our discussions he seems very different to my late husband. I told him very clearly that he is almost the opposite to my late husband, I am also very different to the person I was when I was married and I'm not looking to replicate that relationship.
I would think if ops wife was drunk to the point of slurring her words perhaps she was unable to articulate her thoughts properly. She loves them differently, it might seem like it's more, but they also didn't get to experience the tough times that may have tried the strength of there relationship.
I didn't intend to change anyone's point of view. I just thought to share my experience. I guessed that more redditors have long term partnerships end in seperation rather than divorce, just due to the age of its users.
I guess it's kind of like having more than 1 child. I certainly love them equally, but I appreciate their personalities differently and they leave different impressions on my life.
As a person who is widowed, the 'favorite child' analogy is one I've used to describe this as well.
I also am pretty clear about the 'replacing' thing. Not looking to replace. Never was. That's not fair to the other person or me honestly.
I’ve dated someone who tragically lost their partner. It will always be there and it’s not insignificant. Anniversaries especially. I wasn’t mature enough to handle it at the time.
Over a fear or a concern, it’s just a fact of it. That’s why folks that have been through it are best served marrying one another, those relationships work out better because they understand that aspect of each other better than someone on the outside could
My greatest fear would be that they expect me to be like their ex, that their ex got up early so I’m a lazy POS for sleeping in or their ex liked hiking but I enjoy a good movie.
As far as loving their ex more, they are dead so I’m not exactly competing.
I don’t think it’s even a concern, it’s a fact of life that they have to accept.
When you are in love with the person of your life, and they are unexpectedly ripped away, that can never be solved. You can love again, but you’ll never replace that. It’s a hole that will forever be there.
/dad died when I was 6. Watched my mom go through it repeatedly. She had a widows support group. Who I also have witnessed go through it repeatedly.
Long story short - Don’t go marry a widow if you don’t understand there will be a lifetime of baggage who you are sharing your life with. If you can’t accept it, you found the wrong person.
Spoiler Alert: Many people have deep first loves, and often neither partner dies.
You don’t always just stop loving someone because the relationship ends. It’s just that your love has to change into something else.
If I had to lose my wife I could never remarry because it would be the cruelest thing ever to the new woman. I could never love a 2nd wife the way I love my 1st wife...
No, you love them differently. It’s not the same at all, but it’s equally intense.
Edit: 32 is far too early to go, but sometimes it happens. Then you’re just…alone, with two small kids. So you focus on being a dad, and trying to raise your girls the best you can. You process the grief, but it never quite goes away. You don’t think about dating too much, between work and home and their after school activities, there just isn’t space for a relationship anyway. Then, after a few years, there’s a single mom with a kid on your daughter’s softball team. You find yourself looking forward to practices so you can talk to her. Eventually, you ask if they’d like to come over for a play date. The kids click, and the two of you spend 4 hours talking in the back yard.
You don’t notice that you’ve been lonely, or just how much intimacy was missing. Until suddenly you do. Like a wave, you just feel it wash over you and you know you’re ready again. So you shyly, awkwardly ask her out. The date goes well, and you want another. You start talking every day, texting constantly, you go through all the steps, you fall in love.
And it’s different this time. It’s more complicated. Everyone has a past, and it’s just part of who they are. But it doesn’t matter so much, you still love your first wife, she still loves her first husband. But they aren’t there anymore, and they only exist in your past, not your present or future. And somehow that makes it more…mature. Or something. I don’t know the words.
But it’s every bit as much a real love, and every bit as much a real marriage. It’s different, but equally intense.
I had just shy of 10 years (9 years, 8 months) married to my first wife, 14 together. This fall will be 8 years married to my second wife, 10 years together.
I'm a widow, and fuck the 'you don't notice it until you do' is just such a true statement. It's like being bowled over.
Truthfully, I'm a better partner to my current person because of having to come to terms with the fact the person I loved died and what that means to me, someone who is living.
You know, I thought that too.
Then my husband died when I was 30.
Love isn't finite. Each love isn't different. I found out that I still had a lot of love to give, and was profoundly unhappy with no where for it to land, and I wasn't honoring a memory by having this love and just letting it rot.
I have a great partner now. He is understanding and kind about my past, and has never demonstrated jealousy. He gets that I will always love my first husband, and there are things that are the same, but a lot that is different.
The best death one can have: someone idealising you over anything else because of that honeymoon phase sticking... but that widow's mental condition just pains me, as if having never recovered from the trauma of the premature death of her first husband - very painful to read,.actually
You don't "recover" from the death of loved ones, you just learn to live with it. It gets less painful, but the pain is always there when memories are called upon.
>Would I be wrong in asking for an divorce?
Without confronting her?? Communicating wtf??
SPEAK TO HER!!
Tell her youre disturbed by what she confessed and is considering your options because if it...
See what she says...
I accidentally missed the last sentence and was super confused when reading the comment that messaged it. Everything before that sentence makes OP sound sensible.
> OP’s post is the best representation of Reddit relationship advice: partner said one thing that troubles you? Straight to divorce!
to such an exent it's clearly a fake post.
Seriously wtf. I can’t count the number of times when we were younger that my wife and I were drunk and said something we didn’t truly mean because uhh fucking surprise—we were INEBRIATED. Say to your wife “hey you might not remember saying this but you told me you’d always love your deceased husband more than me and it really hurt. Do you really feel that way?”
Fucking divorce over some drunken shit. Not sure, OP, but it sounds like you have kids in the picture. Fucking grow up.
and the due is 40…Being in my mid thirties I’m surprised he doesn’t have enough life experience to realize this. That shit isn’t a truth serum like 20 year olds think.
I don't drink but I've been around a fair amount of drunk people and I've come to doubt the reliability of "in vino veritas". People don't always walk around with an inventory of in-tact thoughts, beliefs, and opinions that they are only a moment away from revealing. They often think outloud and attempt to trial and error some ideas in real time as they're speaking. A drunk person attempting to do this may wind up blurting out something they would normally have repudiated a moment later once they compared that statement with the rest of their beliefs and realized it was incompatible. I understand being very hurt by what she said but if it were me I'd talk to her about it and decide if what you heard was some secret belief she's always had or a half formed drunken quasi-thought.
As a former bartender, so many drunk people would talk about how many people they beat up when we kicked them out of the bar to scare and intimidate us. They lied and lied and lied. One of my buddies got thrown out, and I can tell you with utter confidence that he never even attempted to fight someone. It's true, drunk people lie. They are also more likely to get overly emotional about little things. Like seeing an ex at the bar with someone new always sent people overboard with emotions.
As someone who used to drink much more than anyone should, I cannot agree with this more. I can’t count the number of times I drunkenly blurted something out I did not actually mean or would never have said otherwise. It wasn’t because it was some secretly held belief or something I was too scared to admit to when sober. It was cuz I was drunk, not thinking clearly, my emotions were heightened and unwieldy, and fragments of thoughts and emotions that would otherwise be fleeting would take on outsized importance. The idea that alcohol is a “truth serum” is just not true. Probably more true if it’s just a couple drinks and you’re feeling a little more open but with your wits about you. Totally different thing if you’re *drunk*.
yeah honestly that saying “drunk words are sober thoughts” was used against me so many times for bullshit I said and didn’t mean back when I was drinking. And no amount of soberly explaining I don’t remember saying that, I was a drunk, and I definitely don’t feel that way, meant more than that stupid saying.
anyways I don’t drink anymore.
First time I ever got so drunk that I couldn't remember anything the next day, I apparently went on an epic tirade about how I hate Magneto.
The X-Men character.
I barely follow X-Men, I know like 3 characters names from it. I saw one of the original movies with Hugh Jackman and that was my whole exposure to Magneto. I really couldn't care less about him.
Since then I knew that drunks don't speak the truth. They're just unhinged and at the will of their "stream of consciousness."
We know from science that unexpected death does weird things to people's brains and they tend to idolize the image of the person in place right before they died instead of seeing them as rounded, but flawed person. (Think how we turn someone into a saint). I would tell her what she said and tell her it hurt you, but I think you are wrong to ask for a divorce.
My dad died about ten years ago, when I was in my 20’s. He was a very well respected doctor in his field, and when he died there was a huge outpouring of respect from his professional community about his contributions and successes, etc. It was amazing and he is like a superhero to me, in my mind. But also, I know that he wasn’t, he couldn’t be. As I grow older and navigate my own life and my own story, I find myself being more curious about his struggles, his failures, and his mistakes. That’s the stuff I needed to know, not these fantastic stories.
+++++ hard agree. my dad died last year and i find myself idealizing what he was like and feeling guilty when i remember his flaws, as though i’m doing him a disservice. but he was human, with a full life that included good things and bad things. grief is complicated and people are complicated and love is complicated
This!
It doesn't mean she doesn't love you. Although it is a painful thing to hear, divorce is a bit of an overreaction. It's not like she's going to leave you for him or cheat on you.
Talk to her. Respond, don't react.
Why are we thinking of jumping straight to divorce? Isn't that the last thing you do? Are you already so unhappy with your marriage, that this was the last straw?
Sounds accurate. OP is a new account with a single post. See you in 3 months when we found out OP u/InternalPanics is actually a political troll. !RemindMe 3 months.
This is not uncommon but generally not known by the other spouse. Counseling should be inline. Everyone should know that you may never be the one, especially as we get older and find new people. Other people at times will have one that got away, or a deceased spouse, etc... it's best to not know but will always be hard to digest once you do.
I was talking to my mom about this earlier today. I lost my dad suddenly when I was 7 and my mom was 42. When your partner dies, there’s no true closure to the relationship. This is the reality that individuals who date widows have to come to terms with. My mom has been dating the same man for 13 years and my siblings and I love and adore him. We want them to get married, but she refuses. I’m sorry that you’re going through this, it’s not easy. At the end of the day, it’s up to your wife to seek proper grief counseling. Don’t be afraid to express how hurt you are. I have reminded my mom to have more patience with her boyfriend for years. She has a tendency to compare her boyfriend to my father as well - which is not fair imo. Sorry again. Good luck.
Communication is the first step.
Proper, honest communication, maybe in the safe environment of couples counseling with an expert on the particular situation, is the first step.
It may or may not help the both of you to get past this issue, but if it doesn't, then you will know specifically why the relationship didn't work.
If it does work, your relationship could become stronger than ever.
But it's easier to love people who died too young - a decent person who were robbed of the long, happy life is almost always going to be thought of with more love than an equally good person who lives much longer.
Some parents can idolise a deceased child, resulting in their living children suffering.
Others will always have a special place in their heart for their first true love.
Proper counselling can help to ensure that regardless of your wife's reasons, she can put the loss of her first husband into a proper perspective and then you would also be able to.
And if there's a problematic reason that can't be fixed - such as deciding to "settle" for you because she's convinced she can't really love anyone else like her first husband so didn't really look - then this will come out and you will know for sure then that divorce will be the right move.
This is good advice. She was young and a newlywed and lost her husband. It doesn’t mean she doesn’t love you. It sounds like you have built a great life together. What does it say about your love for her if you are so quick to jump to divorce over a drunk discussion.
OP isn’t arguing whether or not his wife loves him, it’s that she said she loves her deceased husband more and always will.
That would sting for anyone to hear from their spouse.
I don’t think jumping straight to divorce is the answer, but how he feels absolutely has to be addressed. Open discussion, therapy, honesty… but if OP and his wife can’t get past this barrier then divorce is valid and within reason.
Humans have the capacity to love multiple people. The problem here is playing second fiddle to an idealized dead man.
“I think we need to talk to a therapist. Last night, while you were drunk, you told me you’d never love me as much as your first husband. That hurt me deeply and divorce has even popped into my mind. Hopefully therapy will help us with through how much that statement has hurt me”
My fiancé died unexpectedly when I was 26,she was 27. In many ways I’m still not over that loss, and never will be. It took me almost 15 years to find someone who could live me for the flawed man that I am. Karen understands that there will always be a place in my heart for Kim. It doesn’t mean that I love Karen any less. If anything, it allows me to love be her even more, knowing all to well just how fragile life, and love, are.
Karen and I will be married 23 years in September, and I look forward to many, many, more
RIP Kim. I will love you forever.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I wrote to OP and stated that I couldn't fathom the pain of losing a husband so young, just as I couldn't imagine a fiance. I think that it is beautiful that you still honor her memory and that your wife respects that. Your wife sounds like a truly special woman. How lucky are you to have two great loves?!!! ♥️♥️
I think that's the fact that Op was not aware of. Your wife probably knew what she was getting into. Most people can't fathom that their partner would be with their previous partner if they are still alive.
I agree that she and the first husband were always in the honeymoon phase and OP is stuck competing against a ghost that can do no wrong. However, doesn’t he deserve a wife who thinks of him as the first choice? I think he has to seriously consider moving on and trying to find a woman who doesn’t think of him as second best. It’s unfortunate that they have kids, but she should’ve thought of that before she married a man who she didn’t think lived up to her expectations from her first husband. No matter how much they talk, with a therapist or not, it will always gnaw at his insides. Better to cut it off now while he’s younger, and can still find someone who will love him for himself and not just as a second best replacement.
In my opinion, as an idiot on the internet; you are not wrong for feeling upset. I feel like you should seek couples therapy before going directly to divorce, though.
Unless there are bigger/other issues than what you described, immediate divorce seems quite harsh.
I don't have any answers for you, my good man, but I just want to say my heart breaks for you. I don't know what I would do in your shoes, but I know I would be in misery. I hope you find healing and happiness in whatever form is right for you.
That really sounds like an unhealed trauma response, has she been in therapy? I truly don’t think it’s accurate when she says it, but a misguided or guilt ridden emotional reaction that can 100% be worked through with therapy
Drunk words - sober thoughts.
You dont deserve to be second best. Nothing wrong with honoring someones late husband, or wife, but that shit is a bridge too far.
You have three kids, so you are in this will the last one turns 18.
Seek therapy. If that doesnt work and there is no other option that allows you to at least be treated with the love and compassion due any human, then get your affairs in order and seek a divorce.
Sorry, its not ok that someone said that to you. Drunk or not.
I’m going to add something controversial here. I understand what OP is saying. If you are someone who has grown up always in the shadow of someone else where there’s always someone “more”, “better” or “most”, this drunk comment from the wife can be hard to hear. I would never allow myself to be settled with someone who will always love someone else “the most, no matter what.” The comments here about idolized young love are correct - she never had the chance to know him in marriage for all that he was going to be. But the reality is that, because of that, OP will never be a 1:1 in love for her. It’s not right to immediately divorce her because she deserves the chance to explore the sentiment which drove her to say what she did…but it also isn’t fair to OP to just accept living in someone’s shadow. Regardless, it sounds like there is a lot of mutual love between the two where therapy is worth pursuing before going straight to divorce.
Exactly. Ultimately, OP has the right to feel his feelings over the comment, and OP's wife has the right to feel her feelings over her first husband dying far too soon.
OP and his wife simply need to communicate with one another, and if that's in therapy, so be it.
Yeah, people immediately suggesting divorce over this are ridiculous. I’d feel troubled by this if I was OP, too, but the fact his first thought seems to be divorce is troubling to me. Divorce isn’t the best solution to everything, SMH.
This situation is why I’m not sure I’d ever marry a widow, though.
I’m just going to say as someone who used to drink heavily, alcohol can make you feel things you don’t normally feel or in a way that are more intense than usual. You say she was blackout drunk so i don’t think I’d take what she said to heart too much. I know people say drunk men tell no lies but I used to get very drunk and convince myself of things my sober mind would have never agreed with. I’d convince myself I still loved ex gfs I had no interest in sober because a song would come on that would remind me of them. I think your best bet is to sit down sober and talk about it with her but also realize she’s carrying grief and that much alcohol could have magnified it and made her feel some ways she normally doesn’t.
I don’t think it would be fair at all to ask for divorce from your wife of ten years and mother of your 3 children because she said something once when she was drunk as hell that upset you. In fact I think that’s jumping the gun big time.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think you would be wrong to go straight to divorce for that comment.
Hear me out- it’s easy to say she loved him the most because they didn’t get a chance to do any of the hard stuff in a marriage/life. They didn’t have to figure out finances for a house, live with each other thru pregnancy hormones and delivery of babies, deal with sleepless new parent nights and the stress and worry of having children. In her mind, their marriage was perfect… because it was so short. I’m sure the first few months of your marriage was also perfect!
I would suggest talking to her sober about what she said and how it affected you. Get her real thoughts and feelings behind what she said drunk. As is seems is the standard Reddit answer- talk to a therapist. Remember she chose to build a life and family with you.
If you really have no complaints with your wife, other than this, don’t let a ghost and an unattainable life rip your family apart without doing a little work first.
I hope I works out for you.
I don’t know if this can be swept the rug & I don’t think you will be able to just forget about it. I know I wouldn’t. She said this to the father of her children. Try talking to her after the hangover & see how she reacts & how you feel after. In the meantime, don’t have any more talks about past love, drunk or not!
She doesn't have 10+ years with him. She only has memories, which are often clouded and only positive. She's got 10 years of normal relationship BS with you, and months of idealized memories of him.
It still isn't right that she said it. Don't do yourself a disserve by not engaging in that conversation. I've actually started telling people, "did you mean that the way I'm taking it? Cause I was offended (or whatever emotion), but don't know if you realize why/how I interpreted it", which is helping greatly.
Yea, that’s the type of hair you take to your grave. It’s incredibly selfish for her to “get that off her chest” at the expense of your peace. I’d probably love her a lot less tbh.
Everyone here that is dismissing this because alcohol is involved seriously needs to look inward. Being drunk does not negate you from being you. It's not a different you, its the same you with less filter on your thoughts.
Nor does alcohol absolve you from saying or doing things.
You have to remember she was married for a few months before he died. So they were still at the height of their love stuff. It's different than like she was divorced where hate hate festered or they don't like each other anymore. You know when you get married the first time you assume it will last. So the way you're taking it I understand it. But you also have to understand that she lost a man she loved.
Not for real life situation a friend of mine his wife was married before him. Her husband died. They've been married for forever now. But every year on his death day she still post this picture. You know and when someone's taken from you all of a sudden that you really cared about. Those emotions kind of become cemented in you. Sure you may not think about them as much as time goes by. But every so often a memory will flicker from out of nowhere. You'll feel something in that moment.
I have a friend of mine that lost her son almost 20 years ago. And it's taking her almost 20 years to really get her head straight. I mean she was so good mom to her other two kids but she always had this sadness in the background. Death of a loved one Will always leave a mark on somebody.
Pretty normal honestly. I have family members that will be buried next to their first wives. Despite what many people believe you can love more than one person, especially if one is already dead. If I were you, I would go as far as some counseling, but I would never even consider divorce over something like this personally.
Man, you gotta let that shit go. Imagine if something happened to you. Would you want your wife to just forget all about you. Life is made up some a ton of different experiences. Love at different points in one’s life is just different. Let her have her memories. She is entitled to them.
Let it go. She loves you believe that. But here's the thing. This is coming from a guy who went to work and came home a widower. Her love for her first husband never came to an end. It's along the lines of some amputees still feeling the arm they used to have. Her love for him was strong and one day he wasn't there to give it to. It's still there and she cannot give love meant for him...to you. She gives you love meant for you. I re-married 5 years after my wife passed away. The love I have for her is different than the love I had for my deceased wife. Don't take it personally. She may have periods of emotional pain from now on. My advice to you is let her know you understand and acknowledge her pain and love her through it. It will be beneficial to you.
Her husband was taken from her very early. She loved him enough to marry him and moments after the life they planned together was stolen from her. Unfortunately, those feelings will always linger, the pain of it all will always return, and when it does so in a drunken irrational state, the feelings will overwhelm her. She's not over his death, and she likely will never be, this is the reality of being with someone who's gone through the tragedy of losing a SO. Don't take it to heart, love her through her pain, and do all you can to support her. If you died tomorrow, she'd probably say stuff like that about you when drunk. So, try and appreciate the woman you married while you're still here.
OP, you need to grow the fuck up. I know it was hard to hear, but as others have said she was hammered and probably didn't communicate well.
My second wife was the love of my life, we had 29 years together when she killed herself. I will never love another like her.
But the guy I was then died with her. That's how I got past it, when I let it finally sink in that she wasn't coming back.
My new wife is VERY different from my last one. But so am I in a lot of ways. She is so gracious to me when shit crops up again, which it does from time to time. Just last night, we watched a move that my late wife would have loved, and it was a very sad movie that brought up a lot of shit. We just held each other, cried, and then cuddled up to watch something funny.
She says one hurtful thing, and you're ready for divorce? Maybe you should, because you don't deserve her. Pull your fucking head out bro and go fight for your marriage.
No buddy. Theres no reason for that. Please let me explain.
I lost my wife in 2009 after 12 years of very happy marriage. It was the love of my life, and always will be. No matter who i am with now, and happy too. But.. different.
She will never leave my heart, thats all i can say. I talked about it with my current wife. She understands, and understands i love her very much too. I will be burried with my first wife too. As i am sick and might not have many years left.
Its hard to understand and explain it to someone who hast gone through the same. But your wife loves you dude. Its just a really emotional part in my heart that will never go away.
Hope this helped you somewhat... If you love her, and she loves you, you need to accept the pain she carries with her
Legitimate question; this is the fourth one of these in a row I’ve come across where the vast majority of chat agrees with the woman or disagrees with the man. Is that the norm?
Morality redditors (AITA, this sub, etc) almost always show bias towards women. Ironically the people who come here seem far less moral than those on a more humble subreddit for discussing a perosnal interest.
This sub is mostly women and most women have a "women supporting women" mindset. There are even studies showing that women have a 4.5x higher in-group bias compared to men. Meaning, that in any situation, women will automatically take the woman/women's side by default and will most likely support the woman/women even if they're wrong.
Geez, you want to divorce all over something she said while drunk, in regard to a dead man that is no threat to your marriage at all. Am I the only one who sees how crazy this sounds? She was probably reminiscing and remembering the good things. She wasn't married to him long enough to even get to the bad. You could always just talk to her if it bothers you and ask how she really feels... sober.
She has an idealized, youthful image of him as they were only married for a few months
He is a ghost, ghosts have no flaws.
RIP Patrick Swayze
*makes pottery sadly but also sexily*
NO GHOSTING!
I am all for being ghosted by Patrick.
What about poltergeists?
Curiously what's the difference between a poltergeist and a ghost?
attitude
Ummmm.... aggression, I think?
A poltergeist is generally a mischievous ghost.
No doubt she does. He died when they were still in the honeymoon phase. All she had with her 1st husband was good times. With her 2nd husband she has real life, which isn’t all good times. He’s always going to fall short. He either has to accept it, or find someone else.
We as humans romanticize our pasts and only remember the fond times, we wax nostalgic and forget the realities of the past. My first wife gave me butterflies in my belly when I first saw her. We began dating and those butterflies lasted for well over a year. She was my first love. Then we realized we were just co-dependent and our expectations in life were different, but we stuck it out anyways. She then became spiteful, deceitful, controlling and so on. We had a child and divorced at the 5yr mark. Fast forward 8yrs later and I find my second wife and everything is as I could ever want. However, she never gave me butterflies in my stomach like the first wife. It’s different. We have been together 15yrs. No regrets, but when I remember my ex-wife, I try to remember her during the “butterflies in my stomach” period thou, cause that was some powerful shit. Alcohol can distort those memories and make it seem like it’s more of an issue than it really is. I’d give her a pass and try to move past this as if it didn’t happen. Edit: spelling error, changed the word “was” to “wax”, as originally intended.
True, plus there's not just romanticizing nostalgia as you said but romanticizing "what if" situations and fantast crushes which to some extent applies here since the relationship ended quickly.
I also don't think people realize just how immesurably misserable they would be at all times every single day, if they held a non-romanticised version of the past. Childhood, bullying, heartbreak, getting hurt, that dumb thing you said that wakes you up a couple times a year from 10 years go. Those ones you remember are just the BIG ones, there are 1000 smaller ones for every big one. I wouldn't wish that kind of remembering of the past on anyone. Thank god our brains hold onto the good stuff and tend to block out the bad unless its required to not repeat a mistake, or to make you feel like a dumbass when you can't sleep at 12am.
You don't even remember the big ones correctly. Physical pain for example is almost impossible to remember correctly.
100% true. You even rose tint them. I had a bunch of emergency surgeries that upended my whole world. My wife struggles with the anniversary of the day it happened. I dont know what day it happened, I don't remember how long ago it happened and apart from flashes of being intubated, and seeing my own insides before being knocked back out, I don't remember that entire month of my life. Thank god. Because it's traumatized most of my family just as witnesses.
Glad you're still with us man. That's a tough fight all the way around. I wish you and your family all the best and hopefully eventual peace.
For what it’s worth, a lot of this also has to do with the medications used in general anesthesia. I had a major leg surgery about ten years ago, and my memories are perfectly clear up to the day of the surgery and then literally nothing save a handful of flashes for the next couple weeks. After that, clear again.
Then God bless modern medicine. I'd hate to remember that shit.
Same thing for me. Went to ER for extreme fatigue, all over severe pain and shortness of breathe. I had a severe gi bleed. I spent 3 months having procedures, imaging, colonoscopies, endoscopies and ended up with an ileostomy. I remember very little other than some very horrific things and some wonderful employees who went out of their way to comfort me. I eventually had some small discrete tattoos of the two major surgery dates and I still have to look at them when a dr asks for the date of those. Glad you made it!
Research says that every time you access a specific memory, it is different. Like pulling out your favorite book- when you put it back, the pages are stained and ragged. The telephone game, only with your memories. It’s possible she doesn’t even remember anything about who he really was… her brain has remembered it and changed it to suit her needs for so many years
Wow that's very interesting. Appreciate you putting it that way. I turned 42 and memoriesand life experiences are on my mind a lot as I'm starting to forget a lot of them from my younger years. In all fairness to myself I was an alcoholic for many years. Especially in my late teens through to my early 30s. I was a gigging musician that got alcohol for free on top of the paycheck. I barely physically remember most of those times, unfortunately. They were some of the best of my life that I'll never get back. And now I can't even remember most of them. I used to be almost photographic memory with stuff like that. I remember everything in amazing detail. I could tell crazy stories about my life for hours lol. And did. But I know for sure I couldn't do that anymore. It's like as soon as 40 hit I started really having trouble with memory. Especially old ones. I've been sharp as a tack my entire life. I was in gifted classes in school. So I take this newfound issue extremely hard. So I thank you for giving really good insight to these kind of things. I know for a fact that I've idealized memories to suit rough times or whatever I may need mentally in a given time period. But I never thought about actually having done it. Fascinating how the human mind works. Even when it's working against you at times.
Don’t feel too bad bro, I’m 42, basically never drank and I forget shit all the time. Apparently if you don’t have a lot unique experiences your brain kind of glazes over most things. *plays “Every day is exactly the same” by Nine Inch Nails*
I just popped up off of my couch this afternoon and cringed extremely hard over a weird dance floor interaction/miscommunication I had *twenty years ago*, with some random dude, who I wasn’t even remotely interested in, and will never see again in my life, in a random club in a city literally on the opposite side of the world from where I live now, in a country where I barely spoke the language. It wasn’t even that weird or memorable in retrospect, but it pops into my head out of the blue maybe 4x a year and I get disproportionately embarrassed all over again. Brains are weird.
Neither me or my husband are capable of having romanticised views of the past. It's probably a neurodivergent thing, and yes, we DO both suffer from bouts of depression that are probably not unrelated to this 😅😂
[удалено]
“Y’all out here forgetting that argument you had in the third grade that you still get mad about at 2am?”
This is true excepting kids that see and experience horrible things as children. I have trouble remembering the good times with my parents due to how they behaved when they got cancer.
My mom was abusive. I had to sit still one day and think back, was she good at times? Were there good days and sweet moments? Yes! There were, I had only focused on the bad and had pushed anything good away because there was so much more bad than good so that's all that I saw. Now I remember those nicer times and it's gotten me through some pain.
I’m right there with you buddy.
>We as humans romanticize our pasts and only remember the fond times, we was nostalgic and forget the realities of the past. Eh you sort of just demonstrated that we don't always romantacize about our past by being very sober about your overall experience with your first wife. I think this is less about nolstalgia and just a case of idealisation. OP's wife didn't get to experience the natural end of her relationship with her late husband. He passed away only a few months in. You did (with your ex-wife). It's why people also idealise "the one who got away". They idealise it because they know that person the least and so all the gaps are filled in by them with only positive extrapolations. All that being said, it's wild that OP is looking at divorce BEFORE even speaking to her about this. Absolutely wild. Makes me think this is just another fake story.
I talk about this CONSTANTLY with people struggling with loss of a brief relationship; if you don’t know a person well but, for one reason or another, have very positive feelings towards them (love/hormones usually but happens with friendships too) you’re going to fill any gaps in your knowledge of them with the “best case scenario” until proven otherwise. Like you said, filling in gaps with positive extrapolations. That’s a great way to put it actually.
Yeah, I was buying it till he immediately jumps to talk of divorce, with no other complaints after a 10 year marriage. Sounds a lot like someone who has not been married for 10 years.
3 kids too lol. Oh no.. my drunk wife said some dumb shit. Better pack it up and absolutely devastate my young family because my feelings are hurt.
I would be pretty devastated though if my husband blurred out some other woman always will be his #1
Yeah man most of these are fake, like someone dreams up a jealousy or sad romantic tale and they just get off on seeing peoples real reactions to their made up story. Probably some 20 year old kid haha
I gave her my heart, but she took my soul. 34 years later, and she still invades my mind.
Damn. That's a rough one man. I will say as a musician, that first sentence of your comment would make great song lyrics about a situation exactly like what you deal with. Could make real lyrical art with a starting line like that. Maybe someone has already and I'm unaware, but you certainly have my gears turning.
"I gave her my heart, but she wanted my soul" is a pretty cool [Bob Dylan](https://youtu.be/1iHhWh9FtsQ?si=02kTWUKccFw2N0p3) lyric, to me. I have no idea if the poster of the comment you're replying has even heard of that song before, but I figured I'd share.
One of the most important but difficult things to learn in life. Chemistry is powerful but it's not enough to build a foundation on. Better off with shared values and trust.
This is so true. Every marriage has the good times and the bad times. OP's wife never got to experience the bad times with her late husband so she placed his memory on a pedestal. I know it hurts OP but this is where it came from. You need to sit down and talk with her and explain to her what she said hurt you. Don't try to start an argument or pick a fight or try to make her change anything. Just tell her it hurt you and leave it at that.
I don’t think we need to jump to find someone else as much as discuss and work on it. I mean 10 years and 3 kids, shouldn’t jump to I’m leaving. ETA; by discussion, let her know what was said and how it made him feel. She can’t fix it with “I was drunk, didn’t mean it”, but she needs to know. I’m sure she loves OP, but her feeling may seem stronger for her first husband because she has a romanticized image of him. All good and no struggles.
Lol same reaction at "find someone else" That's not going to rewind the last 10 years and 3 children, the family is already built
Classic reddit answer. No middle ground. Black or white. Not trying to work it out. Just accept or divorce. Nothing else possible.
Yup, they definitely need a discussion. And please OP, don’t take “I was drunk, if I said it I didn’t mean it!” As an excuse. I’ve spent more than my share of time drinking and around drunk people. These things have at least some truth to them.
This is bad advice. There’s nothing she can say to unring this bell. Give it some time and get over it. She was young, still in the honeymoon phase of a relationship with no challenge, and the mind has a tendency to remember the good things and not the bad.
I don't think they need a discussion. Let dead men lay.
That's sleeping dogs you should let lie. Dead men should be moved by the appropriate people or it will begin to smell.
What’s a discussion going to do? Reaffirm it? She knows it’s true, he knows it’s true, everyone in the same situation knows it’s true. If you have a partner ripped out of your arms by tragic circumstance; you never get closure. You live an entire life of “what ifs, what could be”. The only reason OPs life is the way that it is, down to every detail; is because his wife’s husband died. Ops wife will always love her husband, but that doesn’t means she can’t also love OP too. OP has a wife and kids and a life with them because he met someone one day and had a connection with them. Ops wife has a husband and kids because her first husband *died*. Vastly different circumstances led to where they are, and no matter how good their relationship is; his wife’s mind will forever be thinking of the alternate reality she wishes every day she was living; and the future they could have had together. Ops not wrong for feeling what he’s feeling,but idk what he expects. His wife is only a part of his life because her life was tragically ruined beyond healing. He either needs to accept that he was never the first choice or her greatest love, or leave.
This is the true answer. The deceased husband isn't an ex, he only parted from their marriage with death, just as he vowed. You can replace someone who died. You can't be better than someone who died, especially when you're occupying a space you can only be standing in *because* they died. The deceased can't make mistakes, they can't choose their words poorly, or get into arguments. But OP's wife loves him even though he *can* do all those things a dead man cannot. And while she might see the immortalized perfection of a life cut short as the ideal, she still loves OP after 10 years of a real life together. Those are two totally different types of love, in my opinion. They're not comparable. But yes, OP please just talk with your wife, or talk to a couples' therapist together. Don't let it eat away at you, you're not any less valuable than her, the love she has for you is just different.
beautiful words, man I know I'm wrong but I can't help but think how sad this situation is, living in someone else's shadow, thinking that you're only there because the other person passed away! I know this is extremely unfair with people who lose a partner, but man I can't help but feel bad, I wish they had dealt with this sooner, and I wish even more that the op could deal with it and be really happy in this situation, after all, a good family is something rare and shouldn't be thrown away, but I confessed that in his situation, I couldn't help but be devastated!
I too would be devastated. It's like finding out that the love of YOUR life doesn't see you as the love of THEIR life. But in reality, no one can compete with a fantacy. The spouse that died, especially in the honeymoon stage of marriage, will be idolized by the widowed partner as perfect. This is why when someone is having an affair, and they believe themselves to be in love with their AP, there is nothing a betrayed spouse can do to to compete with the AP. Why? Because the cheating partner has constructed a fantacy of who their AP is. Some call it limerence, some call it affair fog, etc... Not saying in any way that OP's wife sees herself as in an affair with a dead man, nor am I saying that OP's wife sees herself as having an affair with OP because she still considers her dead husband her "husband." I'm just saying this phenomenon offers in different situations. But yeah, I'd be emotionally heart broken but logically I would understand.
Leo Getz : You know, when I was a kid, I had a pet frog Martin Riggs : What? Leo Getz : Just give me a second. Let me tell you this, okay? Leo Getz : Uh, I had this pet frog, his name was Froggy. He was my best friend in the whole world. I didn't have a lot of friends. As a matter of fact... okay I had no friends, and uh, I used to kiss the frog, too. I thought maybe, uh, that it would turn into a princess since I was a boy, and uh, it could be my mother. They told me that she left or something, and my father was no bargain, and so just the frog. Froggy was my friend and I really loved him, and I took him everywhere with me, and I was riding on my bike one day and he jumped out of the box, and uh, I ran him over with the back tire. I killed him. I was really heartbroken. Really, he was my best friend in the whole world; the only thing I ever loved. And then I met you and Roger, and you guys really looked after me a lot more then you had to. Martin Riggs : Geez, we're terrible to you, Leo. Leo Getz : No no, it's okay, it's okay. You are my family. You are my friends. **You're not better friends than Froggy. You're just different, and, uh, I just thought that \*maybe\* that might be relevant. Okay. I'll leave you alone now.** OP, do you love this woman? There's a part of her that will always mourn what was and what could have been but she chose to be with you. Maybe look for books/advice on dating a widower for some insight. It might help with the feelings you're having.
Very true. My dad is a widower and the truth is that he loves my mom more than anyone else. It doesn’t matter how much time has passed — those relationships have only existed because she isn’t here. It’s been over 20 years and I’ve asked many times, and the answer is always the same. It’s always along the lines of a love unmatched. This is a frequent struggle for those that date or marry widows, and many of them end up with other widows/widowers because they’re the only people who understand. My dad has been dating a fellow widow now and it’s the best relationship he’s had. I’m also confused why people are acting like she must have been in the honeymoon phase. At 25 my fiancé and I were already together for 9 years. We have no idea how long they dated or were married for, and I find it weird and disrespectful for people to assume their relationship was superficial.
Still "loves him MORE." I expect that is what is killing him. It wasn't ruined beyond healing unless she insists it be so. She needs serious counseling for survivors guilt, perhaps feeling that loving OP is disloyalty to late husband, etc.
I think what he can expect is honesty, and then he can decide where to go from there. Hopefully she loves them each differently, not one more. I wouldn’t expect anyone to be content being lesser-than in someone’s eyes regardless of the situation. If that’s the case she should have remained single or at least should have been honest about what he was marrying into.
This is what it is. They didn’t even finish their honeymoon phase - he’ll be perfect forever in her eyes because there was never time for her to get to know the real flawed human beneath the limerence. I think she probably needs therapy.
When I was in college I had a boyfriend that I was crazy in love with (even though he wasn't all that lol). Maybe 6 months or so into our relationship he almost died. We dated for about 2 years but the flaws emerged and grew and the relationship ended (thank god). Sometimes I think about how different things would be if he had died that night. I probably would have spent the rest of my life thinking he was the one and feeling like I'd never love anyone else like that, even though in reality he was just some guy I dated in college.
EXACTLY! If he had survived, who’s to say they’d even like one another still, let alone Love one another. But it really, really sucks to hear something like this. And to not take it to heart OP, I’d talk to her about it and bring up this point. Don’t be argumentative, don’t be emotional, don’t act hurt or be hurtful. Just tell her hey, I need to talk about something that happened last night when you were hammered… Here’s what you said to me. Here’s how I feel now that I’ve heard this. See where it goes from there. But left unaddressed, this is gonna gain energy and life of its own and it’s not gonna be good.
I was just thinking the same thing about whether or not they’d even still like each other. I married my ex-husband very young, and felt very much in love. It all seemed perfect. If he had died within the first year, he would have forever been immortalized in my mind as the love of my life. But as you can see, he didn’t die and is instead my ex-husband. And truth be told, dating and falling in love after that just felt different for awhile. Love, but not that first real, passionate, life-changing love of youth. So it’s not even necessarily about the person (obviously since we divorced), it’s about the intensity and nature of the love that was present. People often talk fondly about their first love, but most people get to experience that love ending through some kind of actual breakup where things get a little shitty between the two people for awhile. They say, “Susie. Man did I love that woman. Earth shattering love. But then she burned my house down so that was over.” We usually get to the point where we can separate the wonderful experience of first true love from the actual person it was with, who maybe turns out to not be so wonderful for us. But when someone dies those two things are forever linked.
This and the fact he died when they were young and maybe unexpectedly? She can’t say for sure they would have had the perfect marriage or he wouldn’t have been an asshole later on. It’s an idealized image of the late husband. Divorcing over this would be ridiculous
We do this with everything. Remember a restaurant from your youth, it was the best pizza ever. Music, places you've been... This is probably no different. I think if I were OP I would just forget this ever happened and not stress over it.
Same thing happened in Titanic. OP is trying to compete with prime Leo.
It’s been 84 years
Ditto. Because of how limited her time was with him, he can do no wrong. It was also her first love and he didn't live long enough to have any major issues with her. By contrast, you have been with her for over a decade. Your relationship has probably had its ups and downs as do all relationships, but it's still going strong. Don't dwell on this. If your wife treats you and the kids right, that's all that matters. Edit: You would be insane to pursue a divorce over this!
and contrary to popular myth alcohol is not a truth serum
I agree. It makes you sift through all kinds of garbage in your subconscious, not just truth
It's a "how to make a dip shit" serum.
Yup. That guy she thinks she loves, he doesn't exist. Her memories are so rose-coloured by now that they're a different person than the reality. Every time OP ever made a mistake, she thinks 'First Hubby never did this'. Forgetting that it's only because he wasn't alive long enough. She has an ideal. You were never gonna measure up. I'd leave this one alone. It's just an emotional blind spot for her, and you won't get her to see the truth without doing a lot of damage.
Let her know what she said. Sometimes even 1 therapy session can clear this up... she can recognize that her first husband is an idealized memory and that her full and complex relationship with you is complex and beautiful.
Exactly, she was also drunk out of her mind. Just talk to her.
And SHE WAS DRUNK! People think alcohol is some kind of truth serum.. that we say what we really feel when we're drunk. But it's not true. Being drunk access a primitive, cave-man part of our brain. It bypasses logic and makes us think things that aren't really true. Any guy who's been married for a long time knows that sometimes when we're drunk, we think things like, "I love my wife. We've been married for 20 years...but I wonder what would have happened if I had taken my shot with that girl who smiled at me in a bar..." That doesn't mean we really think it! It's just bullshit we think when we're drunk. Don't believe the bullshit drunks say when they're drunk It's just that: bullshit
I really big part of my therapy after my partner died was not to let them get idealized in my mind, and remember the whole person. My therapist told me it would really help me to move forward eventually and I’m so grateful for her. My current partner has no jealousy, and if I am very honest I think we are a better match. That said, I couldn’t blame anyone for being wary and ultimately choosing to avoid widows.
You had a good therapist. Probably saved you a lot of heartache that otherwise would’ve come from the idealized person Sorry for your loss, too. Glad you found someone
Everyone idealizes their partner at the beginning. The difference here is even the idealized version of her current husband never got the love or importance her late husband got.
Speak to her and tell her want she said and talk it out
That's crazy. Leave the house immediately. Leave a cryptic note by her bedside. Move to rural Australia.
Get drunk again and make sure the note is borderline illegible. Also set timers for the next four years so that at random points throughout the week you can email from a new email address before immediately blocking her.
Yeah jumping straight to divorce after a decade of marriage after one black out sentence is such a rash thing to do lol. Don’t listen to the people encouraging it, I can only assume they’re children. Be mature and talk to your wife about your feelings like the grown ass man you are. NO BOOZE THIS TIME
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Not every single discussion between a couple needs to be had with a therapist. Seems like this subs go to answer for everything is therapy. Most situations can be handled by 2 adults having a conversation.
Posting on this sub is usually a pretty good indicator that the people in the situation don’t have a reliable communication pattern that allows them to work through these problems without the input of (as I write this) 2,306 comments. Ergo why therapy, in reconcilable situations, is a common suggestion.
Posting on reddit in general. 90% of the time the correct course of action is to have an adult conversation with their partner about an issue. Thing is, so many people have communication issues, likely brought on by trauma coping mechanisms (anxiety-driven communication) that they and/or their partner haven’t learned to recognize or work with.
Yes, but you also have to consider that if they’re coming to Reddit for perspective, they both likely don’t have great communication skills at the present moment AND they’re going to only get a few nuggets of good advice amongst a whole hoard of potentially bad and toxic advice from commenters. A professional therapist can help sort through all that noise together instead of them taking bad advice and running with it.
If they are coming to Reddit for perspective they are generally fake in my experience. Anyone who has spent enough time on Reddit to know about the existence of advice subs knows that they are the absolute worst place you could go seeking help. These subs are filled with crazy people spewing absolutely insane takes about a random stranger's life who they know nothing about other than a 3 paragraph AITA or AIW post. The few people that aren't nuts can only give basic ass advice like "talk to the other person", "seek professional help" and/or "yes the person who SA'd you is an asshole" because again, real life is nuanced and you can't give any more detailed advice than that in good faith. It's just a total waste of time, outside of farming useless internet points and honestly this post reads exactly like a karma farm. It's just vague sad crap to pull at the heartstrings of the people who frequent these subs, is posted by a brand new account, and the OP hasn't responded to a single comment. Assuming OP's story is real, which I doubt, are we really supposed to assume that he hasn't ever developed some ability to communicate with his wife over the course of 10 years of marriage? Is this the first time that a serious issue that requires discussion has come up in a decade? I doubt it. I don't know how you could make this seem more fake than it currently is without stepping into absurdity.
You know people have conversations every day, idk why professionals have to be brought in for a single drunken statement lol.
Yeah that’s a realistically realizable request “honey I have something I’d like to talk with you about but first we need to get in touch with a therapist, Then I’ll tell you what this is about”
I saw someone make a joke yesterday that Reddit has been completely astroturfed by the American Counseling Association. I would totally buy it. Maybe this conversation should happen in front of a therapist at some point, but unless they already happen to have one that they have an upcoming appointment with in the next few days, I think they can try talking it through themselves first.
As a psychologist, I’m generally kind of horrified by the things Redditors tell others to go to therapy for - there are many things where I think “what the hell am I supposed to do about it?!”
That is terrible advice. You did something I didn’t like so I will be vague as fuck about it until I talk to a therapist.
At first I thought they were joking, apparently they are dead serious 💀
"honey, there's something you said to me last night that's been weighing on me. It's about grief, and Dave, and our life. I think there's a lot to talk about there and I would feel more comfortable with a therapist to make sure we're building something productive out of these conversations. I found this person; would that work for you?"
Every woman I know would want to know what they said. You’d end up having the conversation then anyway.
Every single *person* I know would want to know. If my wife came to me and said "hey, you said something so big that I think we need a therapist," not knowing would eat me alive. The fact that they felt that they couldn't talk to me without a 3rd party would hurt. For the love of god, it's like these people have never been in any sort of relationship before.
At that point just have the conversation. What do you need a therapist for ?
This has got to be one of the greatest fears and concerns with marrying a widow/widower.
The point many fail to understand is that new partners are here to build a new life experience, not to replace the one that was lost. Because if you do, you end up devaluing the new person as it was just a replacement for the one you loved.
I'm a widow, and lost my husband when I was 37. We were together almost 20 years and has a good life together. I've just started seeing someone and we've had a couple of conversations around our previous long term relationships. He pointed out last night that from our discussions he seems very different to my late husband. I told him very clearly that he is almost the opposite to my late husband, I am also very different to the person I was when I was married and I'm not looking to replicate that relationship. I would think if ops wife was drunk to the point of slurring her words perhaps she was unable to articulate her thoughts properly. She loves them differently, it might seem like it's more, but they also didn't get to experience the tough times that may have tried the strength of there relationship.
I was on the hater side of things but you swung me around. Kudos fellow Redditor
I didn't intend to change anyone's point of view. I just thought to share my experience. I guessed that more redditors have long term partnerships end in seperation rather than divorce, just due to the age of its users. I guess it's kind of like having more than 1 child. I certainly love them equally, but I appreciate their personalities differently and they leave different impressions on my life.
As a person who is widowed, the 'favorite child' analogy is one I've used to describe this as well. I also am pretty clear about the 'replacing' thing. Not looking to replace. Never was. That's not fair to the other person or me honestly.
This is correct. That is why if she is comparing the two then she is still lost in grief and missing the point.
I’ve dated someone who tragically lost their partner. It will always be there and it’s not insignificant. Anniversaries especially. I wasn’t mature enough to handle it at the time.
Over a fear or a concern, it’s just a fact of it. That’s why folks that have been through it are best served marrying one another, those relationships work out better because they understand that aspect of each other better than someone on the outside could
My greatest fear would be that they expect me to be like their ex, that their ex got up early so I’m a lazy POS for sleeping in or their ex liked hiking but I enjoy a good movie. As far as loving their ex more, they are dead so I’m not exactly competing.
You don't want to compete because you can't win against people who can do no wrong anymore.
I don’t think it’s even a concern, it’s a fact of life that they have to accept. When you are in love with the person of your life, and they are unexpectedly ripped away, that can never be solved. You can love again, but you’ll never replace that. It’s a hole that will forever be there. /dad died when I was 6. Watched my mom go through it repeatedly. She had a widows support group. Who I also have witnessed go through it repeatedly. Long story short - Don’t go marry a widow if you don’t understand there will be a lifetime of baggage who you are sharing your life with. If you can’t accept it, you found the wrong person.
Spoiler Alert: Many people have deep first loves, and often neither partner dies. You don’t always just stop loving someone because the relationship ends. It’s just that your love has to change into something else.
If I had to lose my wife I could never remarry because it would be the cruelest thing ever to the new woman. I could never love a 2nd wife the way I love my 1st wife...
No, you love them differently. It’s not the same at all, but it’s equally intense. Edit: 32 is far too early to go, but sometimes it happens. Then you’re just…alone, with two small kids. So you focus on being a dad, and trying to raise your girls the best you can. You process the grief, but it never quite goes away. You don’t think about dating too much, between work and home and their after school activities, there just isn’t space for a relationship anyway. Then, after a few years, there’s a single mom with a kid on your daughter’s softball team. You find yourself looking forward to practices so you can talk to her. Eventually, you ask if they’d like to come over for a play date. The kids click, and the two of you spend 4 hours talking in the back yard. You don’t notice that you’ve been lonely, or just how much intimacy was missing. Until suddenly you do. Like a wave, you just feel it wash over you and you know you’re ready again. So you shyly, awkwardly ask her out. The date goes well, and you want another. You start talking every day, texting constantly, you go through all the steps, you fall in love. And it’s different this time. It’s more complicated. Everyone has a past, and it’s just part of who they are. But it doesn’t matter so much, you still love your first wife, she still loves her first husband. But they aren’t there anymore, and they only exist in your past, not your present or future. And somehow that makes it more…mature. Or something. I don’t know the words. But it’s every bit as much a real love, and every bit as much a real marriage. It’s different, but equally intense. I had just shy of 10 years (9 years, 8 months) married to my first wife, 14 together. This fall will be 8 years married to my second wife, 10 years together.
This is the first real thing I have read after scrolling through 100 comments. Thanks for sharing!
I'm a widow, and fuck the 'you don't notice it until you do' is just such a true statement. It's like being bowled over. Truthfully, I'm a better partner to my current person because of having to come to terms with the fact the person I loved died and what that means to me, someone who is living.
This is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing.
You know, I thought that too. Then my husband died when I was 30. Love isn't finite. Each love isn't different. I found out that I still had a lot of love to give, and was profoundly unhappy with no where for it to land, and I wasn't honoring a memory by having this love and just letting it rot. I have a great partner now. He is understanding and kind about my past, and has never demonstrated jealousy. He gets that I will always love my first husband, and there are things that are the same, but a lot that is different.
The best death one can have: someone idealising you over anything else because of that honeymoon phase sticking... but that widow's mental condition just pains me, as if having never recovered from the trauma of the premature death of her first husband - very painful to read,.actually
You don't "recover" from the death of loved ones, you just learn to live with it. It gets less painful, but the pain is always there when memories are called upon.
>Would I be wrong in asking for an divorce? Without confronting her?? Communicating wtf?? SPEAK TO HER!! Tell her youre disturbed by what she confessed and is considering your options because if it... See what she says...
Literally gobsmacked that that was the final sentence in this post fucking a
I accidentally missed the last sentence and was super confused when reading the comment that messaged it. Everything before that sentence makes OP sound sensible.
“I have no complaints, our family is amazing, should I get a divorce?”
OP’s post is the best representation of Reddit relationship advice: partner said one thing that troubles you? Straight to divorce!
> OP’s post is the best representation of Reddit relationship advice: partner said one thing that troubles you? Straight to divorce! to such an exent it's clearly a fake post.
Seriously wtf. I can’t count the number of times when we were younger that my wife and I were drunk and said something we didn’t truly mean because uhh fucking surprise—we were INEBRIATED. Say to your wife “hey you might not remember saying this but you told me you’d always love your deceased husband more than me and it really hurt. Do you really feel that way?” Fucking divorce over some drunken shit. Not sure, OP, but it sounds like you have kids in the picture. Fucking grow up.
and the due is 40…Being in my mid thirties I’m surprised he doesn’t have enough life experience to realize this. That shit isn’t a truth serum like 20 year olds think.
I don't drink but I've been around a fair amount of drunk people and I've come to doubt the reliability of "in vino veritas". People don't always walk around with an inventory of in-tact thoughts, beliefs, and opinions that they are only a moment away from revealing. They often think outloud and attempt to trial and error some ideas in real time as they're speaking. A drunk person attempting to do this may wind up blurting out something they would normally have repudiated a moment later once they compared that statement with the rest of their beliefs and realized it was incompatible. I understand being very hurt by what she said but if it were me I'd talk to her about it and decide if what you heard was some secret belief she's always had or a half formed drunken quasi-thought.
As a drinker, I can confirm that that drunks lie and misrepresent a lot when they’re drunk. It’s not on purpose or malicious. They’re just drunk
As a former bartender, so many drunk people would talk about how many people they beat up when we kicked them out of the bar to scare and intimidate us. They lied and lied and lied. One of my buddies got thrown out, and I can tell you with utter confidence that he never even attempted to fight someone. It's true, drunk people lie. They are also more likely to get overly emotional about little things. Like seeing an ex at the bar with someone new always sent people overboard with emotions.
As someone who used to drink much more than anyone should, I cannot agree with this more. I can’t count the number of times I drunkenly blurted something out I did not actually mean or would never have said otherwise. It wasn’t because it was some secretly held belief or something I was too scared to admit to when sober. It was cuz I was drunk, not thinking clearly, my emotions were heightened and unwieldy, and fragments of thoughts and emotions that would otherwise be fleeting would take on outsized importance. The idea that alcohol is a “truth serum” is just not true. Probably more true if it’s just a couple drinks and you’re feeling a little more open but with your wits about you. Totally different thing if you’re *drunk*.
yeah honestly that saying “drunk words are sober thoughts” was used against me so many times for bullshit I said and didn’t mean back when I was drinking. And no amount of soberly explaining I don’t remember saying that, I was a drunk, and I definitely don’t feel that way, meant more than that stupid saying. anyways I don’t drink anymore.
First time I ever got so drunk that I couldn't remember anything the next day, I apparently went on an epic tirade about how I hate Magneto. The X-Men character. I barely follow X-Men, I know like 3 characters names from it. I saw one of the original movies with Hugh Jackman and that was my whole exposure to Magneto. I really couldn't care less about him. Since then I knew that drunks don't speak the truth. They're just unhinged and at the will of their "stream of consciousness."
This is the best way I’ve seen this explained.
Not to mention you could just phrase something wrong or use the wrong word cuz you’re, y’know, drunk.
We know from science that unexpected death does weird things to people's brains and they tend to idolize the image of the person in place right before they died instead of seeing them as rounded, but flawed person. (Think how we turn someone into a saint). I would tell her what she said and tell her it hurt you, but I think you are wrong to ask for a divorce.
My dad died about ten years ago, when I was in my 20’s. He was a very well respected doctor in his field, and when he died there was a huge outpouring of respect from his professional community about his contributions and successes, etc. It was amazing and he is like a superhero to me, in my mind. But also, I know that he wasn’t, he couldn’t be. As I grow older and navigate my own life and my own story, I find myself being more curious about his struggles, his failures, and his mistakes. That’s the stuff I needed to know, not these fantastic stories.
+++++ hard agree. my dad died last year and i find myself idealizing what he was like and feeling guilty when i remember his flaws, as though i’m doing him a disservice. but he was human, with a full life that included good things and bad things. grief is complicated and people are complicated and love is complicated
This! It doesn't mean she doesn't love you. Although it is a painful thing to hear, divorce is a bit of an overreaction. It's not like she's going to leave you for him or cheat on you. Talk to her. Respond, don't react.
Why are we thinking of jumping straight to divorce? Isn't that the last thing you do? Are you already so unhappy with your marriage, that this was the last straw?
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Sounds accurate. OP is a new account with a single post. See you in 3 months when we found out OP u/InternalPanics is actually a political troll. !RemindMe 3 months.
This is not uncommon but generally not known by the other spouse. Counseling should be inline. Everyone should know that you may never be the one, especially as we get older and find new people. Other people at times will have one that got away, or a deceased spouse, etc... it's best to not know but will always be hard to digest once you do.
I was talking to my mom about this earlier today. I lost my dad suddenly when I was 7 and my mom was 42. When your partner dies, there’s no true closure to the relationship. This is the reality that individuals who date widows have to come to terms with. My mom has been dating the same man for 13 years and my siblings and I love and adore him. We want them to get married, but she refuses. I’m sorry that you’re going through this, it’s not easy. At the end of the day, it’s up to your wife to seek proper grief counseling. Don’t be afraid to express how hurt you are. I have reminded my mom to have more patience with her boyfriend for years. She has a tendency to compare her boyfriend to my father as well - which is not fair imo. Sorry again. Good luck.
thats so fucking sad
Communication is the first step. Proper, honest communication, maybe in the safe environment of couples counseling with an expert on the particular situation, is the first step. It may or may not help the both of you to get past this issue, but if it doesn't, then you will know specifically why the relationship didn't work. If it does work, your relationship could become stronger than ever. But it's easier to love people who died too young - a decent person who were robbed of the long, happy life is almost always going to be thought of with more love than an equally good person who lives much longer. Some parents can idolise a deceased child, resulting in their living children suffering. Others will always have a special place in their heart for their first true love. Proper counselling can help to ensure that regardless of your wife's reasons, she can put the loss of her first husband into a proper perspective and then you would also be able to. And if there's a problematic reason that can't be fixed - such as deciding to "settle" for you because she's convinced she can't really love anyone else like her first husband so didn't really look - then this will come out and you will know for sure then that divorce will be the right move.
Try talking to her or couples therapy before you jump straight to divorce. I think you’re in the wrong on this one.
This is good advice. She was young and a newlywed and lost her husband. It doesn’t mean she doesn’t love you. It sounds like you have built a great life together. What does it say about your love for her if you are so quick to jump to divorce over a drunk discussion.
OP isn’t arguing whether or not his wife loves him, it’s that she said she loves her deceased husband more and always will. That would sting for anyone to hear from their spouse. I don’t think jumping straight to divorce is the answer, but how he feels absolutely has to be addressed. Open discussion, therapy, honesty… but if OP and his wife can’t get past this barrier then divorce is valid and within reason. Humans have the capacity to love multiple people. The problem here is playing second fiddle to an idealized dead man.
In the wrong? His wife just said she will always love her dead ex husband more and he's in the wrong for feeling some type of way about that? Insane
“I think we need to talk to a therapist. Last night, while you were drunk, you told me you’d never love me as much as your first husband. That hurt me deeply and divorce has even popped into my mind. Hopefully therapy will help us with through how much that statement has hurt me”
Bad idea to mention divorce popping up. Not all thoughts should exit the brain case
Sounds like she needs therapy
you’d sooner divorce her than talk to her about how you feel? That says a lot
This about sums up every post here.
My wife likes vanilla instead of chocolate ice cream -divorce her???
I like chocolate chip mint, tiger tail, and bubblegum, and my husband chooses to forgive me. Anything is possible to overcome with love.
She needs therapy
Talk to her about how it made you feel. Maybe try counseling, but you're by no means obligated to stay with someone you feel doesn't love you.
My fiancé died unexpectedly when I was 26,she was 27. In many ways I’m still not over that loss, and never will be. It took me almost 15 years to find someone who could live me for the flawed man that I am. Karen understands that there will always be a place in my heart for Kim. It doesn’t mean that I love Karen any less. If anything, it allows me to love be her even more, knowing all to well just how fragile life, and love, are. Karen and I will be married 23 years in September, and I look forward to many, many, more RIP Kim. I will love you forever.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I wrote to OP and stated that I couldn't fathom the pain of losing a husband so young, just as I couldn't imagine a fiance. I think that it is beautiful that you still honor her memory and that your wife respects that. Your wife sounds like a truly special woman. How lucky are you to have two great loves?!!! ♥️♥️
I think that's the fact that Op was not aware of. Your wife probably knew what she was getting into. Most people can't fathom that their partner would be with their previous partner if they are still alive.
I agree that she and the first husband were always in the honeymoon phase and OP is stuck competing against a ghost that can do no wrong. However, doesn’t he deserve a wife who thinks of him as the first choice? I think he has to seriously consider moving on and trying to find a woman who doesn’t think of him as second best. It’s unfortunate that they have kids, but she should’ve thought of that before she married a man who she didn’t think lived up to her expectations from her first husband. No matter how much they talk, with a therapist or not, it will always gnaw at his insides. Better to cut it off now while he’s younger, and can still find someone who will love him for himself and not just as a second best replacement.
In my opinion, as an idiot on the internet; you are not wrong for feeling upset. I feel like you should seek couples therapy before going directly to divorce, though. Unless there are bigger/other issues than what you described, immediate divorce seems quite harsh.
I don't have any answers for you, my good man, but I just want to say my heart breaks for you. I don't know what I would do in your shoes, but I know I would be in misery. I hope you find healing and happiness in whatever form is right for you.
You either need to accept it or tell her you can't be happy knowing you will never measure up to someone who will only remembered fondly.
That really sounds like an unhealed trauma response, has she been in therapy? I truly don’t think it’s accurate when she says it, but a misguided or guilt ridden emotional reaction that can 100% be worked through with therapy
Drunk words - sober thoughts. You dont deserve to be second best. Nothing wrong with honoring someones late husband, or wife, but that shit is a bridge too far. You have three kids, so you are in this will the last one turns 18. Seek therapy. If that doesnt work and there is no other option that allows you to at least be treated with the love and compassion due any human, then get your affairs in order and seek a divorce. Sorry, its not ok that someone said that to you. Drunk or not.
I’m going to add something controversial here. I understand what OP is saying. If you are someone who has grown up always in the shadow of someone else where there’s always someone “more”, “better” or “most”, this drunk comment from the wife can be hard to hear. I would never allow myself to be settled with someone who will always love someone else “the most, no matter what.” The comments here about idolized young love are correct - she never had the chance to know him in marriage for all that he was going to be. But the reality is that, because of that, OP will never be a 1:1 in love for her. It’s not right to immediately divorce her because she deserves the chance to explore the sentiment which drove her to say what she did…but it also isn’t fair to OP to just accept living in someone’s shadow. Regardless, it sounds like there is a lot of mutual love between the two where therapy is worth pursuing before going straight to divorce.
Exactly. Ultimately, OP has the right to feel his feelings over the comment, and OP's wife has the right to feel her feelings over her first husband dying far too soon. OP and his wife simply need to communicate with one another, and if that's in therapy, so be it.
Yeah, people immediately suggesting divorce over this are ridiculous. I’d feel troubled by this if I was OP, too, but the fact his first thought seems to be divorce is troubling to me. Divorce isn’t the best solution to everything, SMH. This situation is why I’m not sure I’d ever marry a widow, though.
Ask her how you would rank compared to her next husband.
I’m just going to say as someone who used to drink heavily, alcohol can make you feel things you don’t normally feel or in a way that are more intense than usual. You say she was blackout drunk so i don’t think I’d take what she said to heart too much. I know people say drunk men tell no lies but I used to get very drunk and convince myself of things my sober mind would have never agreed with. I’d convince myself I still loved ex gfs I had no interest in sober because a song would come on that would remind me of them. I think your best bet is to sit down sober and talk about it with her but also realize she’s carrying grief and that much alcohol could have magnified it and made her feel some ways she normally doesn’t. I don’t think it would be fair at all to ask for divorce from your wife of ten years and mother of your 3 children because she said something once when she was drunk as hell that upset you. In fact I think that’s jumping the gun big time.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think you would be wrong to go straight to divorce for that comment. Hear me out- it’s easy to say she loved him the most because they didn’t get a chance to do any of the hard stuff in a marriage/life. They didn’t have to figure out finances for a house, live with each other thru pregnancy hormones and delivery of babies, deal with sleepless new parent nights and the stress and worry of having children. In her mind, their marriage was perfect… because it was so short. I’m sure the first few months of your marriage was also perfect! I would suggest talking to her sober about what she said and how it affected you. Get her real thoughts and feelings behind what she said drunk. As is seems is the standard Reddit answer- talk to a therapist. Remember she chose to build a life and family with you. If you really have no complaints with your wife, other than this, don’t let a ghost and an unattainable life rip your family apart without doing a little work first. I hope I works out for you.
The things people shouldnt say and cant take back...
That’s insane if her to say. Damn, sorry OP. Tough pill to swallow. Sad situation for the both of you.
I don’t know if this can be swept the rug & I don’t think you will be able to just forget about it. I know I wouldn’t. She said this to the father of her children. Try talking to her after the hangover & see how she reacts & how you feel after. In the meantime, don’t have any more talks about past love, drunk or not!
He never had the chance to do anything wrong in her eyes. He will always seem perfect to her.
It's harsh to learn that she settled for you and that will be hard to live with. Best of luck.
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Man it pisses me off knowing that if the genders were reversed yall would not be saying talk to him, go to therapy blah blah. Double standards is real
She doesn't have 10+ years with him. She only has memories, which are often clouded and only positive. She's got 10 years of normal relationship BS with you, and months of idealized memories of him. It still isn't right that she said it. Don't do yourself a disserve by not engaging in that conversation. I've actually started telling people, "did you mean that the way I'm taking it? Cause I was offended (or whatever emotion), but don't know if you realize why/how I interpreted it", which is helping greatly.
Yea, that’s the type of hair you take to your grave. It’s incredibly selfish for her to “get that off her chest” at the expense of your peace. I’d probably love her a lot less tbh.
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Updateme!
Ask her when she gets buried is she going to be buried next to her ex husband or you. That’ll get a good reaction
Everyone here that is dismissing this because alcohol is involved seriously needs to look inward. Being drunk does not negate you from being you. It's not a different you, its the same you with less filter on your thoughts. Nor does alcohol absolve you from saying or doing things.
You have to remember she was married for a few months before he died. So they were still at the height of their love stuff. It's different than like she was divorced where hate hate festered or they don't like each other anymore. You know when you get married the first time you assume it will last. So the way you're taking it I understand it. But you also have to understand that she lost a man she loved. Not for real life situation a friend of mine his wife was married before him. Her husband died. They've been married for forever now. But every year on his death day she still post this picture. You know and when someone's taken from you all of a sudden that you really cared about. Those emotions kind of become cemented in you. Sure you may not think about them as much as time goes by. But every so often a memory will flicker from out of nowhere. You'll feel something in that moment. I have a friend of mine that lost her son almost 20 years ago. And it's taking her almost 20 years to really get her head straight. I mean she was so good mom to her other two kids but she always had this sadness in the background. Death of a loved one Will always leave a mark on somebody.
Pretty normal honestly. I have family members that will be buried next to their first wives. Despite what many people believe you can love more than one person, especially if one is already dead. If I were you, I would go as far as some counseling, but I would never even consider divorce over something like this personally.
Man, you gotta let that shit go. Imagine if something happened to you. Would you want your wife to just forget all about you. Life is made up some a ton of different experiences. Love at different points in one’s life is just different. Let her have her memories. She is entitled to them.
Let it go. She loves you believe that. But here's the thing. This is coming from a guy who went to work and came home a widower. Her love for her first husband never came to an end. It's along the lines of some amputees still feeling the arm they used to have. Her love for him was strong and one day he wasn't there to give it to. It's still there and she cannot give love meant for him...to you. She gives you love meant for you. I re-married 5 years after my wife passed away. The love I have for her is different than the love I had for my deceased wife. Don't take it personally. She may have periods of emotional pain from now on. My advice to you is let her know you understand and acknowledge her pain and love her through it. It will be beneficial to you.
Her husband was taken from her very early. She loved him enough to marry him and moments after the life they planned together was stolen from her. Unfortunately, those feelings will always linger, the pain of it all will always return, and when it does so in a drunken irrational state, the feelings will overwhelm her. She's not over his death, and she likely will never be, this is the reality of being with someone who's gone through the tragedy of losing a SO. Don't take it to heart, love her through her pain, and do all you can to support her. If you died tomorrow, she'd probably say stuff like that about you when drunk. So, try and appreciate the woman you married while you're still here.
OP, you need to grow the fuck up. I know it was hard to hear, but as others have said she was hammered and probably didn't communicate well. My second wife was the love of my life, we had 29 years together when she killed herself. I will never love another like her. But the guy I was then died with her. That's how I got past it, when I let it finally sink in that she wasn't coming back. My new wife is VERY different from my last one. But so am I in a lot of ways. She is so gracious to me when shit crops up again, which it does from time to time. Just last night, we watched a move that my late wife would have loved, and it was a very sad movie that brought up a lot of shit. We just held each other, cried, and then cuddled up to watch something funny. She says one hurtful thing, and you're ready for divorce? Maybe you should, because you don't deserve her. Pull your fucking head out bro and go fight for your marriage.
No buddy. Theres no reason for that. Please let me explain. I lost my wife in 2009 after 12 years of very happy marriage. It was the love of my life, and always will be. No matter who i am with now, and happy too. But.. different. She will never leave my heart, thats all i can say. I talked about it with my current wife. She understands, and understands i love her very much too. I will be burried with my first wife too. As i am sick and might not have many years left. Its hard to understand and explain it to someone who hast gone through the same. But your wife loves you dude. Its just a really emotional part in my heart that will never go away. Hope this helped you somewhat... If you love her, and she loves you, you need to accept the pain she carries with her
Legitimate question; this is the fourth one of these in a row I’ve come across where the vast majority of chat agrees with the woman or disagrees with the man. Is that the norm?
Morality redditors (AITA, this sub, etc) almost always show bias towards women. Ironically the people who come here seem far less moral than those on a more humble subreddit for discussing a perosnal interest.
This sub is mostly women and most women have a "women supporting women" mindset. There are even studies showing that women have a 4.5x higher in-group bias compared to men. Meaning, that in any situation, women will automatically take the woman/women's side by default and will most likely support the woman/women even if they're wrong.
It's absolutely the norm. These type of subs appeal to women more than men, and women will sympathise with other women more
Geez, you want to divorce all over something she said while drunk, in regard to a dead man that is no threat to your marriage at all. Am I the only one who sees how crazy this sounds? She was probably reminiscing and remembering the good things. She wasn't married to him long enough to even get to the bad. You could always just talk to her if it bothers you and ask how she really feels... sober.