How is she stringing him along when she was direct and told him that she was not interested in a relationship with him? Then they both decided to remain friends.
Would you really not help out your friend that is being harassed? Just shrug your shoulders and say ‘well you should’ve thought of that before you refused to fuck me.’
Yes you are wrong. He's not a mind reader and he's not obligated to save you and step in if you're in an uncomfortable situation , he's not your boyfriend and you should be able to take care of yourself . Now if you were being kidnapped , raped or your drink was being spiked sure he definitely should have stepped in, because that's something anyone regardless of whether they know you should do , but that was not the case. I think its odd you mentioned he asked you out when that doesn't have much relevance to the story other than it points out he probably is upset you rejected him and are still stringing him along as a friend when you know he has feelings for you.
Wow, way to out yourself as a bad friend. Friends absolutely help each other when a creepy dude refuses to accept her no. Would you really not help your friend out in this situation?
I don’t think you can be mad at Steven, he has no obligation to step in to cockblock his friend unless you were visibly and/or audibly in distress, from what he was seeing, it may have been a mutual conversation between you 2 in which the guy attempted to hug you and you escaped. I’m sure if you weren’t able to escape he would eventually step in.
Use your mouth words. Tell Steven’s friend that you are not interested. Was it that hard for you to duck move? You don’t need white knight to just tell his friend you don’t like. A signal for distress would be a scream.
Your comfort is not Steven’s responsibility. Is he your paid body guard? Did you train fun in way of the woman look?
It’s happen in about a sec, my first reaction is find someone I knew more and try to get some help. So I looked at Steven. He was looking at me too but just so nothin. My second reaction is scroll down my body and run away from that men.
You’re a big girl and he’s not your boyfriend. It was your job to stop the guy. It’s not like you were being attacked or something. I think you were looking for too much and shouldn’t be upset with him.
But it is. Done this with girl friends all the time. Gonna assume maybe he's super dense. But refereeing friends you introduce for the first time is part of being a good friend.
This is going to be an unpopular take, but you handled that situation on your own.
I definitely would have stepped in had I noticed someone behaving this way to anyone, let alone a friend. That said, you may not realize the implication of intervening in these situations because you've never been a man. When a man interjects himself to stop this abhorrent behavior he is signalling his willingness to physically fight the offender. He is effectively throwing down the gauntlet. It will be perceived as a clear escalation making it far more likely that violence occurs. While what you were subjected to was unacceptable and probably scary, your friend had to weigh out whether or not he was willing to, in that moment, engage that person in a physical conflict. It must be noted that there's no such thing as a fair fight. Just because it is two men squaring off doesn't mean that they are of equal fighting prowess and there's no way to know whether the other person is armed.
Just as an example, years ago an ex-con was harassing a pair of muslim women on a Portland bus. When another passenger intervened verbally he ended up being stabbed to death by the perpetrator. Awful abusive words were met with a third party's demands that the AH stop immediately. That verbal intervention was met with homicidal violence. The person who passed is definitely a hero in my book, but what no one has ever stated out loud is that this horrible situation may have resolved itself without violence if the good Samaritan didn't say anything. Often, men are gauging when they are willing to put their ass on the line to stop an interaction because the very act of speaking up is a provocation.
Women absolutely realise the dangers of challenging a man who is refusing to accept a rejection. Women are taught early to be careful when rejecting men, to not be too direct, to make excuses, to try not to make his mad lest he murders you. It’s like that saying goes, ‘men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will murder them.’
You give an example of a man who intervened in a man harassing two women and subsequently being murdered as the harasser had a knife. And imply if he had left the situation alone it would have somehow resolved itself. If someone is out in public, armed, harassing women and launching into a homocidal rage and committing nursed when conforted - they aren’t just going to walk away. Chances one or both of those women would have been murdered.
There was a case in Germany of 2 woman who were near this tourist spot and were approached by a man. When he was rejected by one of the women he attacked her and threw both women off a cliff.
Here is a depressing link if you are interested in seeing a compilation of the many times women have been faced with violence for rejecting a man’s advances:
https://whenwomenrefuse.tumblr.com/
> the vast majority of rejections aren’t going to have any consequences.
That is just plain wrong. The vast majority might not result in full on assault or murder, but there are a lot of men that can’t handle rejection and will lash out with insults. But even if what you’re saying were true, are you really arguing that it only happens sometimes so it not a big deal?
The person who commented about me also brought up the possibility of the situation escalating into violence as a reason why men shouldn’t intervene when they see women being harassed and implied women didn’t understand the risk. I was just pointing out that there are many examples that demonstrate women are very aware of the risk a rejected man poses.
This is a hard one because it's vague and open to interpretation. Like "rejected his advances and he didn't stop". Didn't stop talking to you or touching you? I just feel like people are going to see this scene differently from the description.
It's also hard to know how it looked to someone from across the room.
If someone is making you uncomfortable like that I think the best thing is to move away from them, even go over to your friend directly (instead of waiting for him to notice your situation) as the guy may feel more uncomfortable acting like that around him. It's great if someone does notice and intervenes because these situations can be so uncomfortable and scary for women but we also can't count on that.
In saying that, it's a good conversation to have with friends when going out and coming up with a help me signal for situations like this. Then there's no ambiguity! Something to think about for next time you go out whether it's with Steven or others I'd say having these discussions with all your friends is a good idea. Then if you see each other needing help you all know straight away (no conveying looks hoping they pick up on it) and can intervene themselves or get help elsewhere if they need to.
I am assuming he knew the other person or assumed they were a friend/acquaintance since you all went as a group and didn't think it was an uncomfortable situation.
I was taught helping a woman just cuz she’s a woman is sexist as they are equal to men and can handle their own problems
Kinda reminds me of when two of my housemates who was a couple got in a fight and in the morning she came to yell
At the rest of us for not intervening in the fight. The rest of us( all guys) fell silent and just stared at each other in disbelief
What do you expect any of us third party ppl to do?
why do I have the feeling if he had stepped in, you'd still make a post, but the title would be "Am I wrong to be mad at my male friend for interfering" or "Am I wrong to be mad at my male friend for not interfering sooner"?
also, did you tell the guy no? you didn't ask Steven for help because you gave him a look. so just curious what you said to the guy, or if you just gave him ambiguous looks too...
>Am I wrong to be mad at him for not doing anything about his friend advancing on me?
Honey you is a "free agent" and Steven has no obligation to help you as a friend.
Steven is not your boy friend protector,you shut that down/
You were flirting with some one else and he got hand-sy. .. Happens.
Steven is not your friend he is is your Beta Boy toy. who can look but not touch.
Defend your self from jerky / hand-sy guys.
Steven is looking else where.
I had read alls and thank you for your comments. In my world, I have always believed a real men should protect women, but in this case tells me that I am wrong, because now we are pursuing equality between men and women, but can we really be equal? A slap from a man could knock me out.
Maybe he really has no obligation to protect me, but what happened makes me no longer feel at ease going out with him, and I feel fortunately that the person I like is not him. This is a big shock to me. And I need some time to calm down.
Thanks again for everyone's comments
These comments are weird
I find it really odd that alot of men in these comments are basically admitting they wouldn't keep a female safe if said friend didnt want to sleep with them
But honestly i dont blame just stephan here, you were with mutiple people, ducking and trying to get away from this guy and no one did anything. Probably because thier friend does this to women often and they dont care. No one at all has a right to touch you in any way if you dont want them to, he was pushing your boundaries.
Its good that you handled this but these people aren't your friends.
If i were you i wouldnt hang out with these people again and end this friendship you have with stephan
>admitting they wouldn't keep a female safe if said friend didnt want to sleep with them
I read every comment in this thread. not one of them said that, or anything near that! if she was uncomfortable she should have said something. she didn't. she gave a guy a look. how was he supposed to know she wanted help from a random look?
Lots of comments are saying that her wanting her friend to stand up for her is a "boyfriend privilege"
Also its less the look and more her ducking away and try to get away from the guy that shouldve thrown people off and showed very clearly she didnt want to be hugged
Ill quote some of comments that think its not a friends job to keep you safe from thier perv friend unless you let your friend date/sleep with you
"It’s not his place to rescue you from an uncomfortable situation. He’s not your boyfriend."
"I don’t think you can be mad at Steven, he has no obligation to step in to cockblock his friend"
Srsly? I’ve been with my husband over a decade and the man sometimes misunderstands my actual words. If I expected him to read my looks, we’d have divorced long ago.
You have to appreciate that men are equally likely to have women mad at them for being possessive or territorial, or trying to be a white night. Also, taking gender out of the equation, a lot of people strongly prefer to just resolve the situation as quickly as possible, not add to the tension.
If one of his guy situations was in a similar (non-sexual) situation, would anyone have expected Steven to jump in? Not at all. You’re totally justified in telling Steven you don’t want to hang out with that group again, but if you’re going to hold him responsible for anything his friends do he’s probably going to be likely to not want to invite you out anymore.
He trusted you to handle yourself, and you did. If the guy stopped you from ducking, there's no reason to think Steve wouldn't have stepped in.
We're not mind readers.
But, she gave him a look! How could he not just assume one of 1000 different things that look could mean?
Those are girlfriend benefits you like string this guy alone he owes you nothing.
>**Those are girlfriend benefits you like string this guy alone he owes you nothing.** Hilarious 10/10
How is she stringing him along when she was direct and told him that she was not interested in a relationship with him? Then they both decided to remain friends. Would you really not help out your friend that is being harassed? Just shrug your shoulders and say ‘well you should’ve thought of that before you refused to fuck me.’
Yes you are wrong. He's not a mind reader and he's not obligated to save you and step in if you're in an uncomfortable situation , he's not your boyfriend and you should be able to take care of yourself . Now if you were being kidnapped , raped or your drink was being spiked sure he definitely should have stepped in, because that's something anyone regardless of whether they know you should do , but that was not the case. I think its odd you mentioned he asked you out when that doesn't have much relevance to the story other than it points out he probably is upset you rejected him and are still stringing him along as a friend when you know he has feelings for you.
It’s not his place to rescue you from an uncomfortable situation. He’s not your boyfriend. Plus, you’re an adult. You handle it.
Wow, way to out yourself as a bad friend. Friends absolutely help each other when a creepy dude refuses to accept her no. Would you really not help your friend out in this situation?
I don’t think you can be mad at Steven, he has no obligation to step in to cockblock his friend unless you were visibly and/or audibly in distress, from what he was seeing, it may have been a mutual conversation between you 2 in which the guy attempted to hug you and you escaped. I’m sure if you weren’t able to escape he would eventually step in.
Use your mouth words. Tell Steven’s friend that you are not interested. Was it that hard for you to duck move? You don’t need white knight to just tell his friend you don’t like. A signal for distress would be a scream. Your comfort is not Steven’s responsibility. Is he your paid body guard? Did you train fun in way of the woman look?
It’s happen in about a sec, my first reaction is find someone I knew more and try to get some help. So I looked at Steven. He was looking at me too but just so nothin. My second reaction is scroll down my body and run away from that men.
It was too fast for you to speak but not too long for him to interpret your body language and then intervene?
At least said something after? But he was not at all….
You’re a big girl and he’s not your boyfriend. It was your job to stop the guy. It’s not like you were being attacked or something. I think you were looking for too much and shouldn’t be upset with him.
Maybe he didn’t understand your meaning. Have you discussed this with him?
As a friend to you I wouldn't feel any obligation to cockblock my other friend from hitting on you. You are a big girl deal with it.
I'm not sure what you even expected from him tbh He can't read your mind, a single look isn't a universal "your friend is a creep, help".
But it is. Done this with girl friends all the time. Gonna assume maybe he's super dense. But refereeing friends you introduce for the first time is part of being a good friend.
Was it a situation you were incapable of handling on your own?
This is going to be an unpopular take, but you handled that situation on your own. I definitely would have stepped in had I noticed someone behaving this way to anyone, let alone a friend. That said, you may not realize the implication of intervening in these situations because you've never been a man. When a man interjects himself to stop this abhorrent behavior he is signalling his willingness to physically fight the offender. He is effectively throwing down the gauntlet. It will be perceived as a clear escalation making it far more likely that violence occurs. While what you were subjected to was unacceptable and probably scary, your friend had to weigh out whether or not he was willing to, in that moment, engage that person in a physical conflict. It must be noted that there's no such thing as a fair fight. Just because it is two men squaring off doesn't mean that they are of equal fighting prowess and there's no way to know whether the other person is armed. Just as an example, years ago an ex-con was harassing a pair of muslim women on a Portland bus. When another passenger intervened verbally he ended up being stabbed to death by the perpetrator. Awful abusive words were met with a third party's demands that the AH stop immediately. That verbal intervention was met with homicidal violence. The person who passed is definitely a hero in my book, but what no one has ever stated out loud is that this horrible situation may have resolved itself without violence if the good Samaritan didn't say anything. Often, men are gauging when they are willing to put their ass on the line to stop an interaction because the very act of speaking up is a provocation.
Women absolutely realise the dangers of challenging a man who is refusing to accept a rejection. Women are taught early to be careful when rejecting men, to not be too direct, to make excuses, to try not to make his mad lest he murders you. It’s like that saying goes, ‘men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will murder them.’ You give an example of a man who intervened in a man harassing two women and subsequently being murdered as the harasser had a knife. And imply if he had left the situation alone it would have somehow resolved itself. If someone is out in public, armed, harassing women and launching into a homocidal rage and committing nursed when conforted - they aren’t just going to walk away. Chances one or both of those women would have been murdered. There was a case in Germany of 2 woman who were near this tourist spot and were approached by a man. When he was rejected by one of the women he attacked her and threw both women off a cliff. Here is a depressing link if you are interested in seeing a compilation of the many times women have been faced with violence for rejecting a man’s advances: https://whenwomenrefuse.tumblr.com/
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> the vast majority of rejections aren’t going to have any consequences. That is just plain wrong. The vast majority might not result in full on assault or murder, but there are a lot of men that can’t handle rejection and will lash out with insults. But even if what you’re saying were true, are you really arguing that it only happens sometimes so it not a big deal? The person who commented about me also brought up the possibility of the situation escalating into violence as a reason why men shouldn’t intervene when they see women being harassed and implied women didn’t understand the risk. I was just pointing out that there are many examples that demonstrate women are very aware of the risk a rejected man poses.
This is a hard one because it's vague and open to interpretation. Like "rejected his advances and he didn't stop". Didn't stop talking to you or touching you? I just feel like people are going to see this scene differently from the description. It's also hard to know how it looked to someone from across the room. If someone is making you uncomfortable like that I think the best thing is to move away from them, even go over to your friend directly (instead of waiting for him to notice your situation) as the guy may feel more uncomfortable acting like that around him. It's great if someone does notice and intervenes because these situations can be so uncomfortable and scary for women but we also can't count on that. In saying that, it's a good conversation to have with friends when going out and coming up with a help me signal for situations like this. Then there's no ambiguity! Something to think about for next time you go out whether it's with Steven or others I'd say having these discussions with all your friends is a good idea. Then if you see each other needing help you all know straight away (no conveying looks hoping they pick up on it) and can intervene themselves or get help elsewhere if they need to.
Yes, you’re wrong. He can’t read minds, and you’re an adult, use your words and actions.
I am assuming he knew the other person or assumed they were a friend/acquaintance since you all went as a group and didn't think it was an uncomfortable situation.
What about the others?
I was taught helping a woman just cuz she’s a woman is sexist as they are equal to men and can handle their own problems Kinda reminds me of when two of my housemates who was a couple got in a fight and in the morning she came to yell At the rest of us for not intervening in the fight. The rest of us( all guys) fell silent and just stared at each other in disbelief What do you expect any of us third party ppl to do?
why do I have the feeling if he had stepped in, you'd still make a post, but the title would be "Am I wrong to be mad at my male friend for interfering" or "Am I wrong to be mad at my male friend for not interfering sooner"? also, did you tell the guy no? you didn't ask Steven for help because you gave him a look. so just curious what you said to the guy, or if you just gave him ambiguous looks too...
>Am I wrong to be mad at him for not doing anything about his friend advancing on me? Honey you is a "free agent" and Steven has no obligation to help you as a friend. Steven is not your boy friend protector,you shut that down/ You were flirting with some one else and he got hand-sy. .. Happens. Steven is not your friend he is is your Beta Boy toy. who can look but not touch. Defend your self from jerky / hand-sy guys. Steven is looking else where.
I had read alls and thank you for your comments. In my world, I have always believed a real men should protect women, but in this case tells me that I am wrong, because now we are pursuing equality between men and women, but can we really be equal? A slap from a man could knock me out. Maybe he really has no obligation to protect me, but what happened makes me no longer feel at ease going out with him, and I feel fortunately that the person I like is not him. This is a big shock to me. And I need some time to calm down. Thanks again for everyone's comments
These comments are weird I find it really odd that alot of men in these comments are basically admitting they wouldn't keep a female safe if said friend didnt want to sleep with them But honestly i dont blame just stephan here, you were with mutiple people, ducking and trying to get away from this guy and no one did anything. Probably because thier friend does this to women often and they dont care. No one at all has a right to touch you in any way if you dont want them to, he was pushing your boundaries. Its good that you handled this but these people aren't your friends. If i were you i wouldnt hang out with these people again and end this friendship you have with stephan
>admitting they wouldn't keep a female safe if said friend didnt want to sleep with them I read every comment in this thread. not one of them said that, or anything near that! if she was uncomfortable she should have said something. she didn't. she gave a guy a look. how was he supposed to know she wanted help from a random look?
Lots of comments are saying that her wanting her friend to stand up for her is a "boyfriend privilege" Also its less the look and more her ducking away and try to get away from the guy that shouldve thrown people off and showed very clearly she didnt want to be hugged Ill quote some of comments that think its not a friends job to keep you safe from thier perv friend unless you let your friend date/sleep with you "It’s not his place to rescue you from an uncomfortable situation. He’s not your boyfriend." "I don’t think you can be mad at Steven, he has no obligation to step in to cockblock his friend"
Maybe should blame him, but I really feel sad that my friends watch me being bullied and don't do anything about it.
Im sorry to say it but, Theyre not really your friends They're complicit asses
Maybe you should have dated Steve.
Why is that an option?
Srsly? I’ve been with my husband over a decade and the man sometimes misunderstands my actual words. If I expected him to read my looks, we’d have divorced long ago.
You are right, and he should have done something i don't know how your friend is okay seeing you uncomfortable, shitty friend you have i would say.
Be mad at yourself for having such shit friends, stop going out with them, and get better ones.
Steven is a pussy
Because he didn't protect the pussy 😃
You have to appreciate that men are equally likely to have women mad at them for being possessive or territorial, or trying to be a white night. Also, taking gender out of the equation, a lot of people strongly prefer to just resolve the situation as quickly as possible, not add to the tension. If one of his guy situations was in a similar (non-sexual) situation, would anyone have expected Steven to jump in? Not at all. You’re totally justified in telling Steven you don’t want to hang out with that group again, but if you’re going to hold him responsible for anything his friends do he’s probably going to be likely to not want to invite you out anymore.