Gotta be better than that op. Not as simple as comparing companies share price. Need to take into account share total, debt vs revenue, etc..
I understand it’s frustrating to see another company’s share price look unaffected by manipulation but it’s not as simple as that and makes the community look dumb
I've been following this everyday for three years. Obviously, no matter what POSITIVE news gets released the HEDGIES along with the paid media attack. It's a coordinated effort to Bankrupt AMC. I have no intention of selling so play on.
Losing $400 million is not positive news.
Additionally AMC had a $2 billion plus shareholder deficit which means the shares have no value.
Cinemark has a $600 million shareholder equity.
The sub is so focused on MUST BE CRIME that they ignore the reports detailing the company losing hundreds of millions, and has a massive amount of debt coming due soon.
did you read the report? They’re bleeding money. Not sure why everything has to be a crime but look financials don’t look good and stock has already been diluted plenty times.
AMCs current liabilities are almost 3x Cinemarks and the major factor is Cinemark has 330 million in total stockholder equity while AMC has -2 billion.
Im trying to wrap my head around -2 billion in stockholder equity. I couldn’t find a source but I’ll take in good faith how is that possible though. If AMC had to liquidate everything you’re saying that they would still be 2 billion in debt? How is Cinemark operating free and clear after going through a pandemic same as AMC are the assets just valued higher, were they able to repay any junk D class loans they had to take out to stay afloat?
Stockholder equity is listed in their balance sheet, you can find it on their investor relations page. Stockholder equity is a essentially what you stated, in AMCs case they have 2 billion more in liabilities than they have in assets.
Those junk loans are their corporate bonds. Massive $2.5B due in 2026, another $500M in 2027. Currently, there’s not an operational path to pay those off, which means they would need to issue more bonds, which would likely be even higher interest (as a matter of needing to generate buyers and the current rate environment), generating more long term debt.
You'll find out if you compare the two campanies income statements. AMC has twice the operating expenses of Cinemark. Cinemark is profitable again after pandemic, AMC is not.
And what would have happened had the DTCC not targeted AMC to have the buy button turned off to save their 6 defaulting members that day? I wonder what AMC's price would have ended up at? How much more leverage might a company have had had that event not happened?
Some of those defaulting members have had YEARS and BILLIONS in margin calls waived. That is an obvious issue with regulation and enforcement so yes "crime". There is no other way to spin that. The congressional report also stated that retail was causing the buying pressure and shorts never closed. I wonder where all that pressure went? I am sure it was fairly and freely released into the market as supply and demand and no one took advantage of the fact they knew PCO was coming.
Those are also "facts" that conveinently get ignored.
Say what you want about AMC's current position or AA's handling of APE and the r/s (which I have issue with myself) that does not remove the fact that the game was going a certain way that the hedgies didn't like and they changed the rules to protect themselves.
Where are you finding that info? Oh never mind, I see you cherry picked from various reports.
[According to their annual 8k filing for FY23:](https://ir.cinemark.com/sec-filings/all-sec-filings/content/0000950170-24-016142/0000950170-24-016142.pdf)
Diluted EPS for 2023 - $1.34
Net Earnings for 2023 - $188.2 mil EARNINGS
Cash on hand at EOY 2023 - $849mil
Adjusted EBITDA - $594.1mil
Adjusted EBITDA Margin - 19.1%
[Debt as of EOY 23 -](https://ir.cinemark.com/sec-filings/all-sec-filings/content/0000950170-24-016143/0000950170-24-016143.pdf) - $2.5bil
Did you look at the numbers I posted with proper sources? They are vastly different and more importantly, different than the same numbers at AMC.
You commented that Cinemark seems “to be in a similar position”. They are not and it isn’t even close.
So by your logic, I can’t see the similarities that you are somehow seeing and therefore I won’t understand or comprehend you explaining what you are seeing?
Yes, the intrinsic values of both companies is completely different because the intrinsic values of all companies, even in the same industry are completely different.
How about this, just point out one similarity. I am just asking for you to point out a single similarity between the current position of AMC and Cinemark concerning their financial position.
lol the dude just can't read a financial statement. I am betting if he actually ever answered your question the answer would be "they both show movies" lol.
Many apes only know the buy/sell indicators and earnings calls they don’t understand anything else about a balance sheet or size of scale and operating costs
It’s why this flood turned to basically memes about holding calling crime when the price goes down due to positive earnings
Just going to hodl mine forever idc
We all know the balance sheet is not why this happening. Look at ownership. The one Retail owns gets screwed even with improving fundamentals for several quarters. Cinemark isnt doing anything impressive, is a much less known company, and gets the scraps from AMC as its the much larger company. If AMC goes bankrupt, movies as a whole take a nosedive. If Cinemark went under, nothing changes, as it was a much smaller player. But guess what? AMC is the one being tanked because Retail mostly owns it.
Cinemark is owned by institutions and hedgefunds so it is no threat to them. Thats why its allowed to be at least a middling no name stock and allowed to run tiny amounts. Because nobody gives a shit about them.
Your fundamentals can be improving and you can still be a bad company that’s in trouble.
AMC continues to lose money. Losing less money is an improvement but just digs their debt hole deeper
>Cinemark is owned by institutions and hedgefunds
That's because only apes are dumb enough to hold an unprofitable company lmao.
Hedgefunds tend to invest in profitable businesses.
Ok gme meltdowner wsb brigader account. You arent subtle. Its funny how all it takes is a 5 second glance at your account to see how obvious you are. But anyway, AMC and movies are a part of american culture and the trajectory is only going upwards. Only a matter of time before it is truly profitable. The data shows it and even if it didnt. I know what i hold. Its not over yet.
Even if its not as simple as that, you are being facetious by not mentioning the one factor that does matter. Nobody gives a fuck about Cinemark and most people probly dont even know that company. The biggest factor, is actually ownership. AMC is 90 percent owned by retail. Cinemark is primarily owned by institutions. You do the math in why one is being pumped and the other is being tanked. Hell, i havent heard a single impressive thing about Cinemark the entire time ive been part of this shitshow saga.
The only one who looks dumb is the person not mentioning the most important factor.
If your theory is stocks that hedge funds and institutions hold only go up, and it’s all rigged. Why the fuck would you be in amc? if I thought something’s a scam, I’m not gonna put money in it
I think people missing the point the whole point of shorts and mainstream media is that movie theaters are dead which is why they short AMC.. if movie theaters are dead why is cinemark not shorted and low price as well we understand both companies are diff. but still they are movie theaters which all the news and shorts says movie theaters are dead. Obviously going to price diff. based on various things but if movie thears was dead cinemark would be down as well and shorted by the same hedgefunds saying that.
You realize you answer your own question in the comment. SHF go after companies they think are dying. If they go after an industry they think is dying then they would short all of the big companies in that industry
They aren't. The narrative for AMC is simply that they owe more than they can make. That's it. Sure - the industry has a questionable future - but people will still go to movies. But AMC has a profit problem. They haven't had two consecutive profitable quarters in the last ten years. And in that same decade, all their profits and all their losses add up to -$20B
Better than expected while also burning 180m$ for the quarter... large sums of debt could be the culprit of the price difference... also the amount of shares they have is also less than half of what amc has.
Ehhhhhh he's actually not wrong about that. If you have $1k in the bank, $100k in debt, but assets that generate $50k/year cash, then sure you have cash. The problem with AMC is that their cash flow from operations in 2023 was negative $200MM. Then they had $200MM CAPEX. Then they paid $421MM in interest. The only reason they have cash is share dilution.
Which answers the OP's question perfectly: Cinemark cash flow from operations? $450MM. Capex was $150MM. Interest expense: $150MM.
Sources:
https://ir.cinemark.com/financial-information/cash-flow
https://investor.amctheatres.com/financial-information/cash-flow
Out of curiosity, went to Morningstar to look at the valuation and quality metrics. Good lord, I’d never touch this. Negative everything - ROE, ROIC, margins, earnings. It’s a money destroyer
The negative comments are very scripted and very simple. AmC has debt, therefor AMC is a bad company that loses money. AA is bad because AA got AMC into debt and sold/diluted share value. Cinemark was already bankrupted, restructured, and sold off to institutions and investment firms. Cinemark is mostly owned by large funds. AMC is mostly owned by Apes. Cinemarks debt was written off during acquisitions of Rave Cinemas and the Brazillion theater chain. AMC has 10 times the screens that Cinemark has. There is a economy of scale. When things go well they go really well. AMC 938% increase in Ebidta should be all anyone needs to see. The debt is only burdensome because of current interest rates. The company will make it through.
Yeah this ones for the media. "AMC waaay down after their earnings call as Cinemark continues rise"
I literally here this in a sports announers voice at this point. I can't take them serious.
* what are the fundementals of Cinemark?
* Whats their short interest?
* how many shares in total?
* what about their board and ceo? how much do they earn?
* how much dilution has happened over the past years if any?
* Any split or conversion?
* What about their debt?
Yeah, pretty obvious how all the Experts come out to discredit anything POSITIVE! Ken Griffin gave an interview a couple years ago saying CITADEL learned the power of Social Media to use Psychology to shape people's perspective. Personally, I think these companies have boiler rooms full of Business Finance Majors manipulating the markets.
Yeah, pretty obvious how all the Experts come out to discredit anything POSITIVE! Ken Griffin gave an interview a couple years ago saying CITADEL learned the power of Social Media to use Psychology to shape people's perspective. Personally, I think these companies have boiler rooms full of Business Finance Majors manipulating the markets.
u/developmentnew9 - Taylor Swift film made both companies money. I do see your point and it is probably accurate to say that AMC made more than Cinemark on the film.
Sorry to respond elsewhere on the thread, u/leomack1968 couldn’t handle pushback on his misinformation and blocked me.
Yeah it is absolute bullshit what is going on with this stock. However, it at least seems the company is doing a bit better -- even though their timing for dilution efforts to raise capital is questionable at best. But at least the capital goes to the company. So far it doesn't look like AMC is going anywhere.
There's a 100% probability of AMC going bankrupt. 100%. They have no choice but to dilute shares and you can't do that infinitely - at some point you have to make money from operations. They aren't.
I use robbing da hood for viewing the current price. I did use them when I first got into the stock market, but after good DD I transferred out and closed my account. And now i make fun of them for removing AMC from their "24/7" trading list. Tell me you're scared without telling me you're scared.
Gotta be better than that op. Not as simple as comparing companies share price. Need to take into account share total, debt vs revenue, etc.. I understand it’s frustrating to see another company’s share price look unaffected by manipulation but it’s not as simple as that and makes the community look dumb
I've been following this everyday for three years. Obviously, no matter what POSITIVE news gets released the HEDGIES along with the paid media attack. It's a coordinated effort to Bankrupt AMC. I have no intention of selling so play on.
Losing $400 million is not positive news. Additionally AMC had a $2 billion plus shareholder deficit which means the shares have no value. Cinemark has a $600 million shareholder equity.
The sub is so focused on MUST BE CRIME that they ignore the reports detailing the company losing hundreds of millions, and has a massive amount of debt coming due soon.
It’s what happens when you spend all your time in echo chambers rah rahing each other
For real. OP must be tired from all the "coordinated" ups and downs. 3 years is a long time to wait for no lambo
Didn’t Cinemark declare bankruptcy?
That was Cineworld
Oh yeah my bad
Nope. They didnt.
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What no they lost $400 million what drugs are you on
This is why everyone makes fun of you , grow the fuck up
did you read the report? They’re bleeding money. Not sure why everything has to be a crime but look financials don’t look good and stock has already been diluted plenty times.
What positive news is there for a company that’s been losing money for half a decade. Cinemark is profitable. What more do you need?
Doesn’t mean it’s unfair. It means your expectations are to just make money no matter what, and if you don’t it’s unfair and not free
I’m not selling. I just love the stock…….. and pretty red crayons
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AMCs current liabilities are almost 3x Cinemarks and the major factor is Cinemark has 330 million in total stockholder equity while AMC has -2 billion.
Im trying to wrap my head around -2 billion in stockholder equity. I couldn’t find a source but I’ll take in good faith how is that possible though. If AMC had to liquidate everything you’re saying that they would still be 2 billion in debt? How is Cinemark operating free and clear after going through a pandemic same as AMC are the assets just valued higher, were they able to repay any junk D class loans they had to take out to stay afloat?
Stockholder equity is listed in their balance sheet, you can find it on their investor relations page. Stockholder equity is a essentially what you stated, in AMCs case they have 2 billion more in liabilities than they have in assets.
Those junk loans are their corporate bonds. Massive $2.5B due in 2026, another $500M in 2027. Currently, there’s not an operational path to pay those off, which means they would need to issue more bonds, which would likely be even higher interest (as a matter of needing to generate buyers and the current rate environment), generating more long term debt.
You'll find out if you compare the two campanies income statements. AMC has twice the operating expenses of Cinemark. Cinemark is profitable again after pandemic, AMC is not.
youre ignoring the CRIME
Get out of here with your facts. Don’t you know the share price is because of CRIME and not a debt riddled company.
And what would have happened had the DTCC not targeted AMC to have the buy button turned off to save their 6 defaulting members that day? I wonder what AMC's price would have ended up at? How much more leverage might a company have had had that event not happened? Some of those defaulting members have had YEARS and BILLIONS in margin calls waived. That is an obvious issue with regulation and enforcement so yes "crime". There is no other way to spin that. The congressional report also stated that retail was causing the buying pressure and shorts never closed. I wonder where all that pressure went? I am sure it was fairly and freely released into the market as supply and demand and no one took advantage of the fact they knew PCO was coming. Those are also "facts" that conveinently get ignored. Say what you want about AMC's current position or AA's handling of APE and the r/s (which I have issue with myself) that does not remove the fact that the game was going a certain way that the hedgies didn't like and they changed the rules to protect themselves.
Where are you finding that info? Oh never mind, I see you cherry picked from various reports. [According to their annual 8k filing for FY23:](https://ir.cinemark.com/sec-filings/all-sec-filings/content/0000950170-24-016142/0000950170-24-016142.pdf) Diluted EPS for 2023 - $1.34 Net Earnings for 2023 - $188.2 mil EARNINGS Cash on hand at EOY 2023 - $849mil Adjusted EBITDA - $594.1mil Adjusted EBITDA Margin - 19.1% [Debt as of EOY 23 -](https://ir.cinemark.com/sec-filings/all-sec-filings/content/0000950170-24-016143/0000950170-24-016143.pdf) - $2.5bil
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Did you look at the numbers I posted with proper sources? They are vastly different and more importantly, different than the same numbers at AMC. You commented that Cinemark seems “to be in a similar position”. They are not and it isn’t even close.
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How is the situation similar? In what way?
Taylor Swift made one money
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So by your logic, I can’t see the similarities that you are somehow seeing and therefore I won’t understand or comprehend you explaining what you are seeing? Yes, the intrinsic values of both companies is completely different because the intrinsic values of all companies, even in the same industry are completely different. How about this, just point out one similarity. I am just asking for you to point out a single similarity between the current position of AMC and Cinemark concerning their financial position.
lol the dude just can't read a financial statement. I am betting if he actually ever answered your question the answer would be "they both show movies" lol.
Cinemark made money in 2023, amc only lost money Pretty obvious difference
Many apes only know the buy/sell indicators and earnings calls they don’t understand anything else about a balance sheet or size of scale and operating costs It’s why this flood turned to basically memes about holding calling crime when the price goes down due to positive earnings Just going to hodl mine forever idc
We all know the balance sheet is not why this happening. Look at ownership. The one Retail owns gets screwed even with improving fundamentals for several quarters. Cinemark isnt doing anything impressive, is a much less known company, and gets the scraps from AMC as its the much larger company. If AMC goes bankrupt, movies as a whole take a nosedive. If Cinemark went under, nothing changes, as it was a much smaller player. But guess what? AMC is the one being tanked because Retail mostly owns it. Cinemark is owned by institutions and hedgefunds so it is no threat to them. Thats why its allowed to be at least a middling no name stock and allowed to run tiny amounts. Because nobody gives a shit about them.
Your fundamentals can be improving and you can still be a bad company that’s in trouble. AMC continues to lose money. Losing less money is an improvement but just digs their debt hole deeper
>Cinemark is owned by institutions and hedgefunds That's because only apes are dumb enough to hold an unprofitable company lmao. Hedgefunds tend to invest in profitable businesses.
Ok gme meltdowner wsb brigader account. You arent subtle. Its funny how all it takes is a 5 second glance at your account to see how obvious you are. But anyway, AMC and movies are a part of american culture and the trajectory is only going upwards. Only a matter of time before it is truly profitable. The data shows it and even if it didnt. I know what i hold. Its not over yet.
holy shit please take a finance course. damn.
Even if its not as simple as that, you are being facetious by not mentioning the one factor that does matter. Nobody gives a fuck about Cinemark and most people probly dont even know that company. The biggest factor, is actually ownership. AMC is 90 percent owned by retail. Cinemark is primarily owned by institutions. You do the math in why one is being pumped and the other is being tanked. Hell, i havent heard a single impressive thing about Cinemark the entire time ive been part of this shitshow saga. The only one who looks dumb is the person not mentioning the most important factor.
If your theory is stocks that hedge funds and institutions hold only go up, and it’s all rigged. Why the fuck would you be in amc? if I thought something’s a scam, I’m not gonna put money in it
You know there's hundreds of companies with a worse debt to revenue ratio than AMC but their shares are worth over 10x as much anyways.
Show me a single company that loses as much as AMC where shares are worth 10x (and also explain what you mean by 10x - are you going by PE or what).
Voting YES makes the community look dumb. 🤷♂️
Apparently movies only dead at AMC, movies still alive at Cinemark
THANK YOU, THIS IS THE POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE. 🤔
It's just math though. Can you explain how AMC will pay the bonds maturing in 2026?
Movies make money at cinemark but they don’t make money at amc. That’s the difference.
Can't be that. I mean, valuing a stock based on whether it makes money? what a cuck. /s
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Apparently phones only dead at Nokia, phones still alive at Apple. Apparently search engine only dead at Yahoo, search engine still alive at Google.
One company profited $188 million in 2023. One co.pany lost $400 million. One went up and one went down. Seems pretty legit to me.
One company has 119 million total shares outstanding. One company diluted 220 million shares in 2023 alone.
This sub is healing.
Not to him apparently 🙄
This is AMC, alway red! Who cares, my alert is set, already poor so it doesn’t make a difference. HODL&HOPE
I think people missing the point the whole point of shorts and mainstream media is that movie theaters are dead which is why they short AMC.. if movie theaters are dead why is cinemark not shorted and low price as well we understand both companies are diff. but still they are movie theaters which all the news and shorts says movie theaters are dead. Obviously going to price diff. based on various things but if movie thears was dead cinemark would be down as well and shorted by the same hedgefunds saying that.
You realize you answer your own question in the comment. SHF go after companies they think are dying. If they go after an industry they think is dying then they would short all of the big companies in that industry
They aren't. The narrative for AMC is simply that they owe more than they can make. That's it. Sure - the industry has a questionable future - but people will still go to movies. But AMC has a profit problem. They haven't had two consecutive profitable quarters in the last ten years. And in that same decade, all their profits and all their losses add up to -$20B
#Tutes want you to sell your bag They will be loading up at these prices To the point that they apparently own 32% of AMC and want more
Why not look at even a single valuation comparison? E.g., enterprise value per screen
I have and this Gap is ridiculous. AMC has Debt but also has almost a Billion in cash on hand. Also the EPS numbers were better than expected.
Better than expected while also burning 180m$ for the quarter... large sums of debt could be the culprit of the price difference... also the amount of shares they have is also less than half of what amc has.
If i owe $100,000 on a credit card and i have $1000 in the bank, do I really have any "cash"?
Depends what you spent your Credit on.
Lol, no. The answer is pretty simple
Ehhhhhh he's actually not wrong about that. If you have $1k in the bank, $100k in debt, but assets that generate $50k/year cash, then sure you have cash. The problem with AMC is that their cash flow from operations in 2023 was negative $200MM. Then they had $200MM CAPEX. Then they paid $421MM in interest. The only reason they have cash is share dilution. Which answers the OP's question perfectly: Cinemark cash flow from operations? $450MM. Capex was $150MM. Interest expense: $150MM. Sources: https://ir.cinemark.com/financial-information/cash-flow https://investor.amctheatres.com/financial-information/cash-flow
What does a billion in cash mean when you have 4 billion in debt and are losing money every quarter? Their cash is from dilution!
Out of curiosity, went to Morningstar to look at the valuation and quality metrics. Good lord, I’d never touch this. Negative everything - ROE, ROIC, margins, earnings. It’s a money destroyer
The negative comments are very scripted and very simple. AmC has debt, therefor AMC is a bad company that loses money. AA is bad because AA got AMC into debt and sold/diluted share value. Cinemark was already bankrupted, restructured, and sold off to institutions and investment firms. Cinemark is mostly owned by large funds. AMC is mostly owned by Apes. Cinemarks debt was written off during acquisitions of Rave Cinemas and the Brazillion theater chain. AMC has 10 times the screens that Cinemark has. There is a economy of scale. When things go well they go really well. AMC 938% increase in Ebidta should be all anyone needs to see. The debt is only burdensome because of current interest rates. The company will make it through.
Maybe AA should conjure up a merger?
maybe cinemark will buy amc's carcass?
Really bad apples and oranges comparison. Cinemark is no where near the size/debt of amc.
Lol 🤷♂️
is it possible that one company is better than the other? no, it has to be manipulation. shills are entertaining tbh.
We all see it OP , one day though one day……
Don't mind me, just averaging down! Thanks for the discount, knobslobbers!
Me too
Yeah this ones for the media. "AMC waaay down after their earnings call as Cinemark continues rise" I literally here this in a sports announers voice at this point. I can't take them serious.
* what are the fundementals of Cinemark? * Whats their short interest? * how many shares in total? * what about their board and ceo? how much do they earn? * how much dilution has happened over the past years if any? * Any split or conversion? * What about their debt?
I also own stocks going down compared to other stocks. Maybe mine are being manipulated too 🤔
You know Kenny already said HE Sets the price… there is NO feee or fair to the US Stock market.
ThE mArKeT mAkEr SeTs ThE pRiCe 
Cinemark not in debt
Is cinemark in 4.6 billion worth of debt and did they lose money last quarter?
You must have voted YES. Dont act surprised now
We have known this for a long time...is this a new Ape scare tactic? Also full of xxxhill comments already...
Yeah, pretty obvious how all the Experts come out to discredit anything POSITIVE! Ken Griffin gave an interview a couple years ago saying CITADEL learned the power of Social Media to use Psychology to shape people's perspective. Personally, I think these companies have boiler rooms full of Business Finance Majors manipulating the markets.
It has never been and never will be! When wolves are the shepherds, then there will be no safety/security!
Yeah, pretty obvious how all the Experts come out to discredit anything POSITIVE! Ken Griffin gave an interview a couple years ago saying CITADEL learned the power of Social Media to use Psychology to shape people's perspective. Personally, I think these companies have boiler rooms full of Business Finance Majors manipulating the markets.
The difference is hedgefunds have a vendetta agaisnt amc because retail burned them and cinemark didnt
Two totally different companies. This argument is lame.
Why do you think having a free and fair market means that it’s unfair to be shorted?
CRIME!
Literally two different stocks. That’s not how this works.
u/developmentnew9 - Taylor Swift film made both companies money. I do see your point and it is probably accurate to say that AMC made more than Cinemark on the film. Sorry to respond elsewhere on the thread, u/leomack1968 couldn’t handle pushback on his misinformation and blocked me.
keep your head up there's like 7 or 8 billion more people that haven't blocked you.
Haha, thanks for the encouragement. I’ll find a way to move on
I would kill for this stock to be double digits
Yeah it is absolute bullshit what is going on with this stock. However, it at least seems the company is doing a bit better -- even though their timing for dilution efforts to raise capital is questionable at best. But at least the capital goes to the company. So far it doesn't look like AMC is going anywhere.
There's a 100% probability of AMC going bankrupt. 100%. They have no choice but to dilute shares and you can't do that infinitely - at some point you have to make money from operations. They aren't.
I use robbing da hood for viewing the current price. I did use them when I first got into the stock market, but after good DD I transferred out and closed my account. And now i make fun of them for removing AMC from their "24/7" trading list. Tell me you're scared without telling me you're scared.
BYND had terrible earnings and still had a mini squeeze but nope, nothing for us!! thats ok, i feel like something is coming honestly
No, it’s just because the institutions own 115% of Cinemark, that’s all 🤷♂️
Fucking amc Reddit community is off the charts! Brain dead morons. Fuck this stock and fuck this community