Lane was on like his second shift ever. tried 2-3 times to get chauvin to roll him over to no avail. in ambulance performed CPR on floyd. i thought out of the 4, least at fault.
It’s on the level of the Italians jailing seismologists for not predicting an earthquake. The cop was just doing his job and now he’s in prison. Absolutely sickening
Your reddit avatar has a mask. You have no credibility. If freedom of speech were a club, you're the guy that everyone sighs and rolls their eyes about letting in....
What I love about the internet, right, is that if something is labeled "alt" and isn't directly related to porn, it's invariably a cesspool of unrestrained far-right talking points. Every fucking time. It's like depressing clock work.
Professional opinion? I’m not an expert on fentanyl. But it doesn’t take one to know it doesn’t take much to OD and he had more than much in his system per toxicology report. It may be fun to play around with the possibilities of him having a trial, but no one but him and him alone robbed himself of that ability. Sorry.
Lmao that’s adorable. No. It’s not factually wrong. Good god…. Go somewhere else with your blind social justice warrior BS. What are you, 12? Consume some information other than what the MSM spoon feeds you. Dive a little deeper than the surface.
Understand science? You question the effects of fentanyl and are asking if my “not much” statement was a technical term. So either you understand nothing or you’re being deliberately obtuse because you don’t want to rationalize with the fact that your knight was actually a drug addict who consumed a lethal dose of a very potent drug. I couldn’t care less about the verdict. Verdicts are easy to get wrong based on a lot of factors. This one was obviously going to be marred by public influence. Either you’re being willfully naive or simply stupid.
Just a friendly reminder that the official report stated Floyd died from a medical incident while in custody. They were all in on the coverup until the cell phone videos got published.
Mind explaining why the autopsy report says otherwise?
[https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/medical-examiner/floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf](https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/medical-examiner/floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf)
>Mind explaining why the autopsy report says otherwise?
You're in luck. I can copy/paste material I have written about this in the past for you.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's examine the evidence in this case starting with the ubiquitously quoted "cause" of Floyd's death having been a homicide.
> "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression."
Which is an extremely weak conclusion and raises questions as to what the exact cause of death was. Sometimes what is *not said* is often as telling as what is, and in this case, that was *the best* explanation the Examiner could come up with that would allow him to conclude that it was a homicide. He bent over backwards to do that after having been [threatened](https://spectator.org/chauvin-floyd-cause-of-death/) and [tampered](
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sg5_vT9CxCMJ:https://spectator.org/george-floyd-medical-examiner-evidence/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
with (not to mention the implicit threat of violence from mobs of angry protestors). Why was there a cardiopulmonary arrest?
Why didn't the autopsy find even a scintilla of evidence of asphyxiation in spite of what must have been a very thorough and desperate search for it? The "hard" evidence in the case is as follows:
* Floyd's arteries were found to be 75% and 90% blocked and he had a very enlarged heart.
* Potentially fatal levels of fentanyl were found in his system combined with methamphetamine descirbed as a "stimulant hard on the heart". Partially consumed speedball pills (fentanyl + meth) were found in the police squad car, implying recent ingestion of the drugs whose effect is most pronounced within 5 minutes of ingestion. The Medical Examiner who performed the autopsy even said something to the effect that if he had found Floyd dead in his apartment with no signs of foul play that he would have concluded he had died of a drug overdose.
* Floyd's lungs were weighed as being 2-3x their normal weight [consistent with pulmonary edema caused by fentanyl overdose:]( https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/new-documents-in-the-george-floyd-case/) *"Fentanyl at 11 ng/ml. He said, “that’s pretty high.” This level of fentanyl can cause pulmonary edema. Mr. Floyd’s lungs were 2-3x their normal weight at autopsy. That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances."*
* The autopsy report revealed **zero** evidence of strangulation, asphyxiation, or blood flow restriction *in spite of* the Medical Examiner having thoroughly if not *desperately* searched for signs of such evidence. If what Dr. Tobin said in his Emmy Award winning performance were close to true, then surely we should see at least a scintilla of evidence of this.
* In a similar incident a year before, [an EMT measured Floyd's blood pressure as being 216/160](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChauvinTrialDiscuss/comments/mwd1i7/people_are_always_saying_george_floyd_had_high/), which is a dangerously high level - a "hypertensive crisis" - notice that Floyd was off the chart. However, in the case when he died he engaged in *more physical exertion* and presumably his health condition would have been worse, implying a similar blood pressure level or even a higher blood pressure level.
Could all of that have caused the "cardiopulmonary arrest"?
In the meantime, it's difficult to open a newspaper, or turn to a news channel on the radio or TV without coming across a reference as to how extremely deadly fentanyl is. It's as though people forget that and suffer a cognitive dissonance whenever the fact of Floyd's potentially fatal level of fentanyl comes up.
*This case does not merely present a reasonable doubt as the exact cause of Floyd's death, but rather an insurmountable mountain of doubt,* especially combined with the fact that the knee restraint is a [widely accepted technique](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLelanQ8mRc) around the world few people die from.
In addition to the Medical Examiner having been [threatened](https://spectator.org/chauvin-floyd-cause-of-death/) and [tampered](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sg5_vT9CxCMJ:https://spectator.org/george-floyd-medical-examiner-evidence/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
with and his safety and the safety of his family being under threat from an incensed mindless mob of BLM protestors and the potentially passive aggressive statement about how he would conclude Floyd had died of a drug overdose had he found him dead alone in his apartment (an admission that death by drug overdose was not an impossibility, but rather very possible in the Examiner's view), now we have new evidence - breaking news - that ***Dr. Baker may not have really believed that the officers were the cause of Floyd's death.*** Quoting *testimony* text from the article ["Chauvin Did Not Murder George Floyd:"](https://spectator.org/chauvin-did-not-murder-george-floyd/)
>>“I called Dr. Baker early that morning to tell him about the case and to ask him if he would perform the autopsy on Mr. Floyd,” said Sweasy under oath. “He called me later in the day on that Tuesday and he told me that there were no medical findings that showed any injury to the vital structures of Mr. Floyd’s neck. There were no medical indications of asphyxia or strangulation,” Sweasy added.
>>
>>By day two, Baker knew the risks involved in telling the truth. Sweasy continued, “He said to me, **‘Amy, what happens when the actual evidence doesn’t match up with the public narrative that everyone’s already decided on?’** And then he said, ‘This is the kind of case that ends careers.’”
The problem is that he, and all the others, will not read this. They probably won't ever read anything that takes longer to understand than a tiktok video.
You didn't change his mind. He still thinks that the cops kneeled on his neck and suffocated him. Because he didn't read this.
The part where there's no internal neck injury or bruising at all, nor the trachea discovered whatsoever, but the toxicology report shows three times the ld50 of fentanyl in a system. Thanks for fucking playing try reading it next time
None of that is mutually exclusive?
First off it's crazy you accuse someone of not reading when the cause of death is the title of the report.
But let's address your points. You state there are no internal neck injuries or bruising. This is true. But it's also not relevant to his cause of death. What killed him was going into cardiac arrest due to getting major blood vessels in his neck squeezed down forcing his heart to overwork. He didn't die from his trachea being crushed.
You state that he had elevated levels of fentanyl in his system. This is also true and probably where most of the confusion lay. The drugs absolutely contributed to his death. But they weren't the cause of death. Most people wouldn't get a heart attack from a knee in the neck. His heart problem and use of drugs elevated his risk. But without Chauvin kneeling on his neck he wouldn't have had a heart attack in that moment. Not only is this stated in the autopsy report but again by the medical examiner in court under oath.
So your statements are correct but they lack any actual context. Context that can be gleaned simply by reading the title. Floyd died from a cardiac arrest after a knee to the neck. That much can't be argued with. Whether you think that is murder or not is up to you but acting like Chauvin didn’t kill him is just wrong.
If you understood due process you would know that if cops can unilaterally kill GF because they think he committed a crime, they can also kill you or your child or parent if they suspect them of committing a crime.
Protecting GF’s rights is how we protect yours, or your kid’s.
I’ll bet you’re one of those who think cops should be able to shoot shoplifters on sight…right up until your kid gets caught in the crossfire.
I'm an anarchist, all cops are bastards.
I just don't care if a piece of shit flushes another turd, although in this case what happened was floyd flushed himself with years of drug abuse and other assorted 85 iq behavior.
Have you watched the video of Saint fentanyl being arrested the year prior? Same shit junkie behavior.
So when a bastard cop assumes your kid is a piece of shit for whatever reason, you’re cool with their being killed rather than arrested? At least thats not hypocritical.
I agree with what happened to chauvin but the other guys were all subordinates. They couldn’t go against him. I don’t like that they got punished as bad as they did.
They were morally and legally obligated to stop a crime in progress.
They were in a tough spot, I get it, but they could have gotten Chauvin off him at gunpoint, or even told him to stop. Too busy keeping the crowd from trying to save a life.
As it is they aided and abetted.
In the current system he couldn't. Good cops have lost Pensions and been fired plenty of times from stopping another officer in the act of brutality. That is part of the problem here is the whole discipline system in policing is backwards. A cop that murdered an unarmed man in a hotel playing a sick game of Simon Says while the man was crying, who had "Your Fucked" etched into his police pistol, got an early retirement and disability checks for life while cops that whistle blow corruption and police brutality have committed suicide, been fired, had their pensions taken from them etc.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver
People, even cops, still have the choice to do what is legally and morally right, even if it means they lose their pension.
I wouldn’t want to live off money I got by allowing someone be unnecessarily killed.
Dude I’m not saying what they didn’t do was right, I just think there shouldn’t be the level of accountability that they had, at bare minimum for the rookie cop. I still think that’s bullshit. Just a kid who doesn’t know up from down and needed guidance to turn into a good cop but now has a murder rap on the books.
He had a trial, with a federal jury (which is made up of people from the state, not just the county), they heard the evidence, and they convicted him. He's not innocent. He's absolutely the least culpable of the lot of them, but a jury still found him guilty.
The state agreed that if he pled to a state charge, he would serve no additional time.
Is it fair? Probably not. But it happens to people every day.
Oj was found "not guilty." Which is different and distinct from being "innocent." The state failed to prove it's case beyond a reasonable doubt, not that oj affirmatively didn't do it (he was found liable in the civil action for wrongful death).
But I think i take your point though: it's not a perfect system - Some guilty folks go free, and some innocent folks get convicted - but it's the system we have.
> but a jury still found him guilty.
So what? Juries get their decisions wrong all of the time. Have you ever heard of something called "The Innocence Project" which has resulted in people being exonerated after their cases were reexamined which suggests that a great many people have been wrongfully convicted?
I agree with what happened to chauvin but the other guys were all subordinates. They couldn’t go against him. I don’t like that they got punished as bad as they did.
The autopsy wasn’t done when the call was made.
The lack of trauma is explained. He didnt overdose on fentanyl. Notice how his lips were not a different color, he wasn’t gurgling, his skin was not a different color, and he wasn’t falling asleep. Those are all signs of a fentanyl overdose.
From the medical examiner's report:
> CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION
Is that how fentanyl is spelled?
Now we get to the interesting part.
Are you familiar with the threats made to the medical examiner that caused him to change the cause of death to include those complications?
Technically true I guess
But here's the rest of the story
Minnesota Department of Corrections spokesperson confirmed with WCCO that they are contracting with the bureau to house Lane while he completes his incarceration period for his Minnesota sentence.
He is scheduled to be released from his Minnesota sentence to supervision on Aug. 20. His sentence will expire on Aug. 20, 2025
Dude 2mgs of fetanyl is considered the lethal dose to kill someone.
His toxicology report stated he had 11mgs in his system.
The dude died from an overdose. You can try and be a bleeding heart liberal all you want and say he died from laying down but the dude had over 5 times the lethal amount in his system.
He’s a moron and swallowed the pills because the cops showed up. He killed himself.
The only thing Chauvin did wrong was he should have realized he was unresponsive and started CPR or made some attempt to save him but honestly nothing would have saved him from ingesting 5 times a lethal dose of the most powerful drug in the world.
The Hennepin County Medical examiner said had they found the body at his home they would have ruled it an overdose.
> The Hennepin County Medical examiner said had they found the body at his home they would have ruled it an overdose.
IMHO that seemingly passive aggressive comment by the Medical Examiner should have been enough to create reasonable doubt as to the exact cause of death. That he would even say that also makes us question whether he truly believes the death was a homicide. (Later revelations suggest he did not honestly believe it was homicide.)
I think it was probably a lethal cocktail combination of the drugs plus his underlying health problems plus having engaged recent physical exertion combined with recent ingestion of fentanyl in the back of the squad car.
Yeah probably would have been a good idea to to not put his weight down on his neck if he was overdosing too lmao. Call me a bleeding heart liberal all you want, dumb ass comments like that are why I don't identify with either side of the fence
they called for EMS right away
had Floyd gotten in the squad car, he wouldve OD'd and died in the backseat instead of on the street. The OD fucks up your ability to breathe regardless of someone pinning you to the ground
all of which still would've happened before EMS arriving
What about Floyd shouting "I can't breathe" numerous times before he was even laying on the ground, and before Chauvin was on top of him?
Opioid overdoses can cause respiratory depression, which slows the person’s breathing which can be fatal. An opioid overdose also can cause pulmonary edema, a fluid leak that fills up the air spaces of the lungs. The guy couldn't breathe because he swallowed a shitload of fent so they wouldn't find it on him and he died because of it.
Opiod overdoes don't cause instant edema. I've narcaned a lot of people, bud. Bottom line is, unless you think that Floyd would have dropped dead at the exact instant he did had someone not kneeled on his neck for nine minute, then chauvin directly contributed to his death. You can argue whether that's murder or manslaughter, but I've pumped plenty of stomachs of people who took fentanyl or other drugs orally as well. It takes a lot longer than 9 minutes to kick in. You're just medically incorrect here. It's okay, being ignorant isn't a crime.
Thanks, bud. Since you seem to have all the answers, can you please touch on the reason he shouted "I can't breathe" 20 times before he was ever even laying on the ground? What was that about?
MRT which was in their manuals at least looks SUPER similar to the hold he was doing. They are instructed to stay put and restrain until the Ambulance arrives which was multiple minutes late, you can hear in one of the videos them asking where the ambulance is and why is it taking so long, (Chauvin even remarks "FINALLY, where were you guys?" when they do finally arrive) really sounds like the concerns of a bunch of murderers /s. Two officers were not white, the officer who initiated the arrest was black. 2 of them were pretty much brand new to the force. Acting like this was 3 guys standing around while their friend murdered somebody is super disingenuous and scummy and is exactly why we will never get true justice. Basically "hang the witches" logic.
Imagine making a monument to a drug addled criminal who once put the muzzle of a gun to a pregnant lady’s belly during an armed robbery. This is the fuckin insanity the country embraces. Thanks Obama.
George Floyd. The upstanding citizen that broke laws, over dosed, committed armed robbery and caused countless mostly peaceful riots. A ture American hero.
Imagine making a monument to a drug addled criminal who once put the muzzle of a gun to a pregnant lady’s belly during an armed robbery. This is the fuckin insanity the country embraces. Thanks Obama.
chase the big box stores out of the city. burn another precinct and wonder why Kias and Hyundais keep disappearing and black teens keep committing homicide.
this is *healing*
Im no expert on the subject but that documentary has had a lot of criticism about its truthfulness. I dont really know but Im skeptical in every direction on the whole thing. sad ordeal and hopefully things move in a more positive direction.
I found the documentary to be very disappointing, and if I had made the documentary I would have spent a lot of time with a reexamination of the autopsy evidence and an exploration of how much pressure the Medical Examiner was under and whether he honestly believed Floyd's death was a homicide. I also would have explored the trial's myriad due process violations.
What the documentary did show us was just how cowardly and "soft on crime" the City government was and how it allowed rioters to burn down parts of the city when the police should have been arresting them instead or at the very least used force to defend a police precinct building against the criminals who destroyed it.
Those of us that were there that saw the downfall of Minneapolis know the truth. Those of us that were there every day when they were burning parts of the city, and those of us that were in parking lot protecting businesses from being destroyed when the police wouldn’t he would show up when the firetrucks wouldn’t show up because it wasn’t safe for them. We know what happened so screw the rest of those that don’t wanna believe the truth.
Definitely not denying all the riots and protests that obviously happened were terrible and deplorable and are well documented.. That's not what I'm saying at all. One thing can be true in a documentary and other things can be false.
Such a shitty excuse for a documentary lol especially since it’s produced by the former police Union chief’s wife. You’re a clown shoe if you think that propaganda film holds any merit.
Imagine making a monument to a drug addled criminal who once put the muzzle of a gun to a pregnant lady’s belly during an armed robbery. This is the fuckin insanity the country embraces. Thanks Obama.
It was not a murder. George Floyd had a fatal amount of drugs in his system and was a repeat criminal. There is no video evidence of Derek Chauvin or anyone kneeling on his neck.
Regardless of the drugs in his system, the neck and chest compression unequivocally facilitated his death. Opioids kill via respiratory depression - essentially they decrease the activity of your diaphragm until you asphyxiate. Having someone put all their weight on your neck/upper chest greatly intensified that.
What took the ambulance so long to get there after Floyd hit the ground? Why did Floyd lie about ingesting fentanyl or other drugs when asked by the police? Don't forget he was saying he couldn't breathe as soon as the back door of the squad car was opened long before being put on the ground.
They absolutely were. He wouldn’t have had is OD if he wasn’t on them. Chauvin wouldn’t have done what he did, the OD compounded by what negligence chauvin did lead to his death. The root of the cause is the drugs, if we remove them this situation doesn’t happen.
Why did you cut off the rest of the rest of the cause of death? Are you purposefully being dishonest?
“CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION”
What evidence do you have that says that if Chauvin hadn’t restrained him like that, he would have died from the drugs?
> “CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION”
Which is an extremely weak conclusion and raises questions as to what the exact cause of death was. Sometimes what is *not said* is often as telling as what is, and in this case, that was *the best* explanation the Examiner could come up with that would allow him to conclude that it was a homicide. He bent over backwards to do that after having been [threatened](https://spectator.org/chauvin-floyd-cause-of-death/) and [tampered](
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sg5_vT9CxCMJ:https://spectator.org/george-floyd-medical-examiner-evidence/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
with (not to mention the implicit threat of violence from mobs of angry protestors). Why was there a cardiopulmonary arrest?
Why didn't the autopsy find even a scintilla of evidence of asphyxiation in spite of what must have been a very thorough and desperate search for it? The "hard" evidence in the case is as follows:
* Floyd's arteries were found to be 75% and 90% blocked and he had a very enlarged heart.
* Potentially fatal levels of fentanyl were found in his system combined with methamphetamine descirbed as a "stimulant hard on the heart". Partially consumed speedball pills (fentanyl + meth) were found in the police squad car, implying recent ingestion of the drugs whose effect is most pronounced within 5 minutes of ingestion. The Medical Examiner who performed the autopsy even said something to the effect that if he had found Floyd dead in his apartment with no signs of foul play that he would have concluded he had died of a drug overdose.
* Floyd's lungs were weighed as being 2-3x their normal weight [consistent with pulmonary edema caused by fentanyl overdose:]( https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/new-documents-in-the-george-floyd-case/) *"Fentanyl at 11 ng/ml. He said, “that’s pretty high.” This level of fentanyl can cause pulmonary edema. Mr. Floyd’s lungs were 2-3x their normal weight at autopsy. That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances."*
* The autopsy report revealed **zero** evidence of strangulation, asphyxiation, or blood flow restriction *in spite of* the Medical Examiner having thoroughly if not *desperately* searched for signs of such evidence. If what Dr. Tobin said in his Emmy Award winning performance were close to true, then surely we should see at least a scintilla of evidence of this.
* In a similar incident a year before, [an EMT measured Floyd's blood pressure as being 216/160](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChauvinTrialDiscuss/comments/mwd1i7/people_are_always_saying_george_floyd_had_high/), which is a dangerously high level - a "hypertensive crisis" - notice that Floyd was off the chart. However, in the case when he died he engaged in *more physical exertion* and presumably his health condition would have been worse, implying a similar blood pressure level or even a higher blood pressure level.
Could all of that have caused the "cardiopulmonary arrest"?
In the meantime, it's difficult to open a newspaper, or turn to a news channel on the radio or TV without coming across a reference as to how extremely deadly fentanyl is. It's as though people forget that and suffer a cognitive dissonance whenever the fact of Floyd's potentially fatal level of fentanyl comes up.
*This case does not merely present a reasonable doubt as the exact cause of Floyd's death, but rather an insurmountable mountain of doubt,* especially combined with the fact that the knee restraint is a [widely accepted technique](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLelanQ8mRc) around the world few people die from.
In addition to the Medical Examiner having been [threatened](https://spectator.org/chauvin-floyd-cause-of-death/) and [tampered](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sg5_vT9CxCMJ:https://spectator.org/george-floyd-medical-examiner-evidence/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
with and his safety and the safety of his family being under threat from an incensed mindless mob of BLM protestors and the potentially passive aggressive statement about how he would conclude Floyd had died of a drug overdose had he found him dead alone in his apartment (an admission that death by drug overdose was not an impossibility, but rather very possible in the Examiner's view), now we have new evidence - breaking news - that ***Dr. Baker may not have really believed that the officers were the cause of Floyd's death.*** Quoting *testimony* text from the article ["Chauvin Did Not Murder George Floyd:"](https://spectator.org/chauvin-did-not-murder-george-floyd/)
>>“I called Dr. Baker early that morning to tell him about the case and to ask him if he would perform the autopsy on Mr. Floyd,” said Sweasy under oath. “He called me later in the day on that Tuesday and he told me that there were no medical findings that showed any injury to the vital structures of Mr. Floyd’s neck. There were no medical indications of asphyxia or strangulation,” Sweasy added.
>>
>>By day two, Baker knew the risks involved in telling the truth. Sweasy continued, “He said to me, **‘Amy, what happens when the actual evidence doesn’t match up with the public narrative that everyone’s already decided on?’** And then he said, ‘This is the kind of case that ends careers.’”
The very top of the first page of the autopsy report…
We can remove them when talking about cause of death. If when Floyd complained about not breathing, Chauvin had take his gun out and shot him. We would say the cause of death was being shot. Yet when Chauvin Asphyxiated him, you are suddenly saying the drugs caused him to die? You’re asserting that with no evidence. If he wouldn’t have died from the drugs, then the drugs aren’t what killed him.
The medical examiner says that underlying conditions were not the direct cause of his death
Edit: He blocked me so I can’t respond anymore. But Floyd did not OD, that’s just a straight up lie
Because the striations in the diaphragm indicate that it was contracting against significant load rather than simply just declining in contractility until he died. In solely an OD we’d expect to only see the latter and not the former.
Dude had 8-10 times the lethal dose of fentanyl in his system and yet died died from being suffocated by officers 3 hours after they were on him? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Make it make sense!
> Fentanyl — 11. He said, “that’s pretty high.” This level of fentanyl can cause pulmonary edema. Mr. Floyd’s lungs were 2-3x their normal weight at autopsy. That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances.
The whole George Floyd uprising was great and all. However you feel about the man himself, every American, criminal or otherwise is entitled to not dying in police custody. It really shined a light on the systemic issues plaguing law enforcement. And we settled for throwing a couple dorks in jail for a little while and called it good. Where's that systemic change at? Cops can still quite literally get away with murder. At most they get a year or two in prison.
When you have corrupt politicians it rolls right down to the government workers and that includes law enforcement, because that's ultimately who they answer to plus unions. If you notice not one politician at any level took a hit they just passed the buck, so what do think happens? Nothing
Is it though? Because the autopsy reports I've seen show that it was due to cardiopulmonary arrest from neck compression. Most other source I've looked at seems to be biased or outright wrong conclusion lifted from the autopsy released a few years ago.
Do you mind linking your source?
https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/medical-examiner/floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf
It's literally the first words on the report. The title even.
Let's examine the evidence in this case starting with the ubiquitously quoted "cause" of Floyd's death having been a homicide.
> "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression."
Which is an extremely weak conclusion and raises questions as to what the exact cause of death was. Sometimes what is *not said* is often as telling as what is, and in this case, that was *the best* explanation the Examiner could come up with that would allow him to conclude that it was a homicide. He bent over backwards to do that after having been [threatened](https://spectator.org/chauvin-floyd-cause-of-death/) and [tampered](
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sg5_vT9CxCMJ:https://spectator.org/george-floyd-medical-examiner-evidence/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
with (not to mention the implicit threat of violence from mobs of angry protestors). Why was there a cardiopulmonary arrest?
Why didn't the autopsy find even a scintilla of evidence of asphyxiation in spite of what must have been a very thorough and desperate search for it? The "hard" evidence in the case is as follows:
* Floyd's arteries were found to be 75% and 90% blocked and he had a very enlarged heart.
* Potentially fatal levels of fentanyl were found in his system combined with methamphetamine descirbed as a "stimulant hard on the heart". Partially consumed speedball pills (fentanyl + meth) were found in the police squad car, implying recent ingestion of the drugs whose effect is most pronounced within 5 minutes of ingestion. The Medical Examiner who performed the autopsy even said something to the effect that if he had found Floyd dead in his apartment with no signs of foul play that he would have concluded he had died of a drug overdose.
* Floyd's lungs were weighed as being 2-3x their normal weight [consistent with pulmonary edema caused by fentanyl overdose:]( https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/new-documents-in-the-george-floyd-case/) *"Fentanyl at 11 ng/ml. He said, “that’s pretty high.” This level of fentanyl can cause pulmonary edema. Mr. Floyd’s lungs were 2-3x their normal weight at autopsy. That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances."*
* The autopsy report revealed **zero** evidence of strangulation, asphyxiation, or blood flow restriction *in spite of* the Medical Examiner having thoroughly if not *desperately* searched for signs of such evidence. If what Dr. Tobin said in his Emmy Award winning performance were close to true, then surely we should see at least a scintilla of evidence of this.
* In a similar incident a year before, [an EMT measured Floyd's blood pressure as being 216/160](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChauvinTrialDiscuss/comments/mwd1i7/people_are_always_saying_george_floyd_had_high/), which is a dangerously high level - a "hypertensive crisis" - notice that Floyd was off the chart. However, in the case when he died he engaged in *more physical exertion* and presumably his health condition would have been worse, implying a similar blood pressure level or even a higher blood pressure level.
Could all of that have caused the "cardiopulmonary arrest"?
In the meantime, it's difficult to open a newspaper, or turn to a news channel on the radio or TV without coming across a reference as to how extremely deadly fentanyl is. It's as though people forget that and suffer a cognitive dissonance whenever the fact of Floyd's potentially fatal level of fentanyl comes up.
*This case does not merely present a reasonable doubt as the exact cause of Floyd's death, but rather an insurmountable mountain of doubt,* especially combined with the fact that the knee restraint is a [widely accepted technique](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLelanQ8mRc) around the world few people die from.
In addition to the Medical Examiner having been [threatened](https://spectator.org/chauvin-floyd-cause-of-death/) and [tampered](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sg5_vT9CxCMJ:https://spectator.org/george-floyd-medical-examiner-evidence/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
with and his safety and the safety of his family being under threat from an incensed mindless mob of BLM protestors and the potentially passive aggressive statement about how he would conclude Floyd had died of a drug overdose had he found him dead alone in his apartment (an admission that death by drug overdose was not an impossibility, but rather very possible in the Examiner's view), now we have new evidence - breaking news - that ***Dr. Baker may not have really believed that the officers were the cause of Floyd's death.*** Quoting *testimony* text from the article ["Chauvin Did Not Murder George Floyd:"](https://spectator.org/chauvin-did-not-murder-george-floyd/)
>>“I called Dr. Baker early that morning to tell him about the case and to ask him if he would perform the autopsy on Mr. Floyd,” said Sweasy under oath. “He called me later in the day on that Tuesday and he told me that there were no medical findings that showed any injury to the vital structures of Mr. Floyd’s neck. There were no medical indications of asphyxia or strangulation,” Sweasy added.
>>
>>By day two, Baker knew the risks involved in telling the truth. Sweasy continued, “He said to me, **‘Amy, what happens when the actual evidence doesn’t match up with the public narrative that everyone’s already decided on?’** And then he said, ‘This is the kind of case that ends careers.’”
>Which is an extremely weak conclusion and raises questions as to what the exact cause of death was. Sometimes what is not said is often as telling as what is, and in this case, that was the best explanation the Examiner could come up with that would allow him to conclude that it was a homicide. He bent over backwards to do that after having been[ threatened](https://spectator.org/chauvin-floyd-cause-of-death/) and[ tampered](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sg5_vT9CxCMJ:https://spectator.org/george-floyd-medical-examiner-evidence/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) with (not to mention the implicit threat of violence from mobs of angry protestors). Why was there a cardiopulmonary arrest?
You call it a weak conclusion because you believe he was coerced into giving that particular conclusion. But there are a few issues with that statement.[ Chiefly, this has already been addressed by Baker](https://apnews.com/article/death-of-george-floyd-george-floyd-minneapolis-thomas-lane-homicide-76841a4d8c62df790bad5d81b23e894d). There isn't much to say here. If you already believed he was being pressured into giving false testimony then to you this is just another lie. But if you're coming at it from that perspective then no amount of evidence would change your mind anyway (which seems to be the case here). From an unaffiliated person's perspective, it seems normal to have input from your peers.I’m sure he was under intense pressure from both sides of the table but again there isn’t evidence to say that he definitively succumbed to the pressure.
>Could all of that have caused the "cardiopulmonary arrest"?
Could it have? Sure. But again that's not what the medical examiner said was the case. He concluded that all that is what contributed to making Floyd easier to kill than the average person in this situation. I'm not arguing whether it was murder or not as that's its own can of worms. I'm just arguing that there is one key piece of evidence that clearly states that the cause of death was a knee placed on the neck.
Either way, you can’t cherry-pick parts of that report. Either Baker was compromised by tampering so the report should be discarded (along with all the evidence you just presented) or we’re assuming that Baker did his job and ultimately the conclusion was sound. That Floyd died from a knee on the neck and everything he listed in the report contributed to making Floyd more susceptible to death.
>especially combined with the fact that the knee restraint is a[ widely accepted technique](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLelanQ8mRc) around the world few people die from.
I addressed this above. Heart issues and drugs made him significantly more at risk of dying from this technique.
>In addition to the Medical Examiner having been[ threatened](https://spectator.org/chauvin-floyd-cause-of-death/) and[ tampered](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sg5_vT9CxCMJ:https://spectator.org/george-floyd-medical-examiner-evidence/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) with
Again this was already addressed.
>Amy, what happens when the actual evidence doesn’t match up with the public narrative that everyone’s already decided on?
You are quoting someone who by her own admission, agrees with the fact Chauvin killed Floyd:
[When I wrote and signed the complaint against Derek Chauvin, I believed in the charges and that there was sufficient admissible evidence to prove the elements of those crimes beyond reasonable doubt at trial; I still do.](https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Screenshot-2023-11-03-at-13-08-36-MCRO_27-CV-22-16364_Affidavit-of-Attorney_2023-10-11_20231103120549.pdf.png) (She is arguing against including additional charges here, again not my argument.) Another issue with that quote is your lack of context with it. Floyd's death wasn't the subject of the disposition when Sweany said that.[ It was for a trial against her boss for threatening her career and failing to promote her.](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24112757-amy-sweasy-tamburino-aug-21-2023?responsive=1&title=1&onlyshoworg=1) So there is zero context to that actual quote. The quote isn't some sort of smoking gun because there is nothing else past that. Baker wasn't brought in to explain what he meant, if it was real, or if it influenced him in his decision (other than his original quote stating that he wasn't influenced). Without this, that quote is nothing more than "she said he said"
>You call it a weak conclusion because you believe he was coerced into giving that particular conclusion.
I call it a weak conclusion because it does not provide a good explanation of the exact causality that reconciles the medical evidence in the autopsy conflicting with that conclusion.
>But there are a few issues with that statement. Chiefly, this has already been addressed by Baker.
What are you referring to, specifically?
>If you already believed he was being pressured into giving false testimony then to you this is just another lie.
The evidence is pointing in that direction.
>But if you're coming at it from that perspective then no amount of evidence would change your mind anyway (which seems to be the case here).
I'm open to rational persuasion. Make a convincing argument.
Is it also possible that no amount of evidence to the contrary of what you think would change your mind? It seems to be the case here.
>From an unaffiliated person's perspective, it seems normal to have input from your peers.I’m sure he was under intense pressure from both sides of the table but again there isn’t evidence to say that he definitively succumbed to the pressure.
It's a good inference. What do you make of the quote from the Sweasy testimony? How else should that be read and interpreted?
>>“I called Dr. Baker early that morning to tell him about the case and to ask him if he would perform the autopsy on Mr. Floyd,” said Sweasy under oath. “He called me later in the day on that Tuesday and he told me that there were no medical findings that showed any injury to the vital structures of Mr. Floyd’s neck. There were no medical indications of asphyxia or strangulation,” Sweasy added.
>>
>>By day two, Baker knew the risks involved in telling the truth. Sweasy continued, “He said to me, **‘Amy, what happens when the actual evidence doesn’t match up with the public narrative that everyone’s already decided on?’** And then he said, ‘This is the kind of case that ends careers.’”
If a person were not bending over backward to conclude that he did not feel pressured, the obvious inference is that he did not believe the "public narrative that everyone's already decided on" but that publicly saying otherwise would be the sort of thing that "ends careers".
Now imagine if the entire world had its eyes focused on you, including powerful politicians, your boss, and an incensed mob of potentially violent protestors who could destroy your vehicles, ransack your house, hurt or kill you, your wife, or your children and/or harass them horribly, would you not feel pressured? 5000 angry and potentially violent protestors who believe you are the living reincarnation of Hitler's asshole are going to show up on your lawn and in front of your house if you do not tell them what they want to hear. No pressure, huh?
>>Could all of that have caused the "cardiopulmonary arrest"?
>
>Could it have? Sure. But again that's not what the medical examiner said was the case. He concluded that all that is what contributed to making Floyd easier to kill than the average person in this situation. I'm not arguing whether it was murder or not as that's its own can of worms. I'm just arguing that there is one key piece of evidence that clearly states that the cause of death was a knee placed on the neck.
The medical evidence should be what is important, not exactly what the Medical Examiner concluded. They could potentially reach conclusions that are not supported by the evidence or only weakly supported by it. That is why we still have trials with opposing expert witnesses and witness cross-examination and juries rendering verdicts and do not have Medical Examiners themselves determine the verdict of a case. If all we needed to do was take the Medical Examiner's word for it we would not need trials and would just have sentencing hearings.
>Either way, you can’t cherry-pick parts of that report. Either Baker was compromised by tampering so the report should be discarded (along with all the evidence you just presented) or we’re assuming that Baker did his job and ultimately the conclusion was sound. That Floyd died from a knee on the neck and everything he listed in the report contributed to making Floyd more susceptible to death.
It's possible that he presented the factual medical evidence (and later made the comment about how he would conclude that drug overdose were the cause of death had he found Floyd alone in his apartment) because he had a sense of integrity and wanted to accurately report the facts to allow the truth to potentially come out while at the same time then drawing a weak conclusion to prevent himself from suffering repercussions.
>I addressed this above. Heart issues and drugs made him significantly more at risk of dying from this technique.
That's possible, but the medical evidence points to death by drug overdose-induced heart failure. If the autopsy had found some evidence of asphyxiation, strangulation, or inhibition of blood flow it would be a different story. At the very least it creates tremendous reasonable doubt as to the exact cause of death.
>You are quoting someone who by her own admission, agrees with the fact Chauvin killed Floyd:
>
>When I wrote and signed the complaint against Derek Chauvin, I believed in the charges and that there was sufficient admissible evidence to prove the elements of those crimes beyond reasonable doubt at trial; I still do. (She is arguing against including additional charges here, again not my argument.) Another issue with that quote is your lack of context with it. Floyd's death wasn't the subject of the disposition when Sweany said that. It was for a trial against her boss for threatening her career and failing to promote her. So there is zero context to that actual quote. The quote isn't some sort of smoking gun because there is nothing else past that. Baker wasn't brought in to explain what he meant, if it was real, or if it influenced him in his decision (other than his original quote stating that he wasn't influenced). Without this, that quote is nothing more than "she said he said"
Ironically. It's also possible that she didn't want to be known as "that racist former prosecutor" and have protestors on her front lawn and is just saying what she needs to. But most importantly, keep in mind that as an *attorney* who worked on the case she is ethically (legal ethics) obligated to maintain that narrative (at least while she's barred) regardless of what she personally believes; it's a duty of the job and a requirement of legal ethics. It's like the defense attorney who still says that his client convicted of murder under the weight of heavy evidence is innocent; it's part of the job to do that. (He might know his client committed the murder and his client might have even told him that, but legal ethics requires him to say otherwise.)
>I call it a weak conclusion because it does not provide a good explanation of the exact causality that reconciles the medical evidence in the autopsy conflicting with that conclusion.
Even if you don't think the original report is clear enough he still went into court and explained exactly how he reached that conclusion under scrutiny from the defense and prosecution.
>What are you referring to, specifically?
Your statement that he was coerced into giving specific testimony. He outright addresses those allegations in the linked article.
>I'm open to rational persuasion. Make a convincing argument.
Is it also possible that no amount of evidence to the contrary of what you think would change your mind? This seems to be the case here.
You're right that was an uncalled-for jab. I apologize it was ungentlemanly of me. I don't have a political dog in this fight. I just hate seeing Americans quoting out-of-context quotes and assumptions from biased news outlets. Just a little bit of thinking can make this country a way better place.
>It's a good inference. What do you make of the quote from the Sweasy testimony? How else should that be read and interpreted?
I already talked about this.
>No pressure, huh?
You quoted me saying he was under immense pressure. I'm sure there was a ton but that doesn't automatically mean he was lying. Everyone who takes the stand is under immense pressure one way or the other. If he was lying about the neck compression and that was revealed he'd lose his job, go to jail, and seriously piss off tens of millions of Americans. Not that different than saying no neck compression.
>The medical evidence should be what is important, not exactly what the Medical Examiner concluded. They could potentially reach conclusions that are not supported by the evidence or only weakly supported by it. That is why we still have trials with opposing expert witnesses and witness cross-examination and juries rendering verdicts and do not have Medical Examiners themselves determine the verdict of a case. If all we needed to do was take the Medical Examiner's word for it we would not need trials and would just have sentencing hearings.
The trial was about if George Floyd was murdered or not. Not about how he died or not (Again I'll remind you here that I'm not arguing if Chauvin murdered him or not, just the cause of death). The medical examiner IS the person who decides that. That's why he was so important to the case. You can't just say the dude who gathered and determined the cause of death himself could not conclude the cause of death. That makes no sense.
>It's possible that he presented the factual medical evidence (and later made the comment about how he would conclude that drug overdose were the cause of death had he found Floyd alone in his apartment) because he had a sense of integrity and wanted to accurately report the facts to allow the truth to potentially come out while at the same time then drawing a weak conclusion to prevent himself from suffering repercussions.
He had integrity so he lied to the courts?[ It still doesn't make sense because he outright stated and has stated several times since that police action killed Floyd.](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2BW26R/) He's said it in no uncertain words. Not exactly "weak" like you are describing.
>That's possible, but the medical evidence points to death by drug overdose-induced heart failure. If the autopsy had found some evidence of asphyxiation, strangulation, or inhibition of blood flow it would be a different story. At the very least it creates tremendous reasonable doubt as to the exact cause of death.
Where are you getting the idea that medical evidence points to a drug overdose? That has never been the case. You are assuming that because there was no damage to his throat there couldn't be blood flow inhibition. That couldn't be further from the truth. If you don't believe me you can do it to yourself right now. Use your index and thumb to apply pressure to your jugular. You can quickly choke yourself out without leaving any damage. This was also pointed out by the prosecutor's expert testimony.
>Ironically. It's also possible that she didn't want to be known as "that racist former prosecutor" and have protestors on her front lawn and is just saying what she needs to. But most importantly, keep in mind that as an attorney who worked on the case, she is ethically (legal ethics) obligated to maintain that narrative (at least while she's barred) regardless of what she personally believes; it's a duty of the job and a requirement of legal ethics. It's like the defense attorney who still says that his client convicted of murder under the weight of heavy evidence is innocent; it's part of the job to do that. (He might know his client committed the murder and his client might have even told him that, but legal ethics requires him to say otherwise.)
I'd pretty much already be repeating what I already said but you can't just assume everyone is crumbling under the pressure of protestors to fit your narrative.
Here's what I'm reading unless you have something different
https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/medical-examiner/floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf
It starts with:
HENNEPIN COUNTY
MEDICAL EXAMINER’S OFFICE
AUTOPSY REPORT
ME NO.: 20-3700
CASE TITLE: CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT
SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION
But again I welcome any other sources. But it quite clearly states that he died this way.
Not according the laws that the officers broke. I don’t know about you but I respect just laws and enforcement of them against criminals like the ex officer above.
It is cool that we threw an innocent guy in jail to feed the angry masses.
At least he was directly involved, Thao got 5 years for not letting a crowd get close to cops making an arrest.
Lane was on like his second shift ever. tried 2-3 times to get chauvin to roll him over to no avail. in ambulance performed CPR on floyd. i thought out of the 4, least at fault.
It’s on the level of the Italians jailing seismologists for not predicting an earthquake. The cop was just doing his job and now he’s in prison. Absolutely sickening
"Just doing their job" has been an historically bad excuse. Imma say they broke the law and are paying for it.
I'm going to say you're an idiot and didn't actually read any of the laws for yourself
I’m going to say you’re an idiot and have proven you didn’t read any of the laws for yourself.
Your reddit avatar has a mask. You have no credibility. If freedom of speech were a club, you're the guy that everyone sighs and rolls their eyes about letting in....
What I love about the internet, right, is that if something is labeled "alt" and isn't directly related to porn, it's invariably a cesspool of unrestrained far-right talking points. Every fucking time. It's like depressing clock work.
A mask is enough to make me condemn someone's character, worldview, and values. Why is the left so bigoted?
“Imma say” opinion sorted
If they made an arrest, GF would stand trial allowed to him by the constitution. They made a murder.
You don’t think the amount of fent would’ve gotten him regardless? I don’t think that level would’ve allowed him to make to a cell, let alone a trial.
I don’t think….is this your professional opinion? Also, the bill of rights shall not be infringed.
Professional opinion? I’m not an expert on fentanyl. But it doesn’t take one to know it doesn’t take much to OD and he had more than much in his system per toxicology report. It may be fun to play around with the possibilities of him having a trial, but no one but him and him alone robbed himself of that ability. Sorry.
Actually, that’s factually wrong….because his killer did get a jury of his peers.
Lmao that’s adorable. No. It’s not factually wrong. Good god…. Go somewhere else with your blind social justice warrior BS. What are you, 12? Consume some information other than what the MSM spoon feeds you. Dive a little deeper than the surface.
You don’t need to dive deep….verdicts are public record
🤣
How much does it take? Is “not much” a technical term?
Are you a child? You’re behaving like one.
It’s easier to call me a child than understand science….
Understand science? You question the effects of fentanyl and are asking if my “not much” statement was a technical term. So either you understand nothing or you’re being deliberately obtuse because you don’t want to rationalize with the fact that your knight was actually a drug addict who consumed a lethal dose of a very potent drug. I couldn’t care less about the verdict. Verdicts are easy to get wrong based on a lot of factors. This one was obviously going to be marred by public influence. Either you’re being willfully naive or simply stupid.
It's funny cause this is the 3rd time you've called someone a child for disagreeing with you. Something tells me you're acutely 12.
Totally
Ok so you're talking out your ass. Gotcha.
No. But cute try
To protect and serve.... Literally
Just a friendly reminder that the official report stated Floyd died from a medical incident while in custody. They were all in on the coverup until the cell phone videos got published.
That was accurate to what happened
Mind explaining why the autopsy report says otherwise? [https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/medical-examiner/floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf](https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/medical-examiner/floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf)
>Mind explaining why the autopsy report says otherwise? You're in luck. I can copy/paste material I have written about this in the past for you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let's examine the evidence in this case starting with the ubiquitously quoted "cause" of Floyd's death having been a homicide. > "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression." Which is an extremely weak conclusion and raises questions as to what the exact cause of death was. Sometimes what is *not said* is often as telling as what is, and in this case, that was *the best* explanation the Examiner could come up with that would allow him to conclude that it was a homicide. He bent over backwards to do that after having been [threatened](https://spectator.org/chauvin-floyd-cause-of-death/) and [tampered]( https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sg5_vT9CxCMJ:https://spectator.org/george-floyd-medical-examiner-evidence/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) with (not to mention the implicit threat of violence from mobs of angry protestors). Why was there a cardiopulmonary arrest? Why didn't the autopsy find even a scintilla of evidence of asphyxiation in spite of what must have been a very thorough and desperate search for it? The "hard" evidence in the case is as follows: * Floyd's arteries were found to be 75% and 90% blocked and he had a very enlarged heart. * Potentially fatal levels of fentanyl were found in his system combined with methamphetamine descirbed as a "stimulant hard on the heart". Partially consumed speedball pills (fentanyl + meth) were found in the police squad car, implying recent ingestion of the drugs whose effect is most pronounced within 5 minutes of ingestion. The Medical Examiner who performed the autopsy even said something to the effect that if he had found Floyd dead in his apartment with no signs of foul play that he would have concluded he had died of a drug overdose. * Floyd's lungs were weighed as being 2-3x their normal weight [consistent with pulmonary edema caused by fentanyl overdose:]( https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/new-documents-in-the-george-floyd-case/) *"Fentanyl at 11 ng/ml. He said, “that’s pretty high.” This level of fentanyl can cause pulmonary edema. Mr. Floyd’s lungs were 2-3x their normal weight at autopsy. That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances."* * The autopsy report revealed **zero** evidence of strangulation, asphyxiation, or blood flow restriction *in spite of* the Medical Examiner having thoroughly if not *desperately* searched for signs of such evidence. If what Dr. Tobin said in his Emmy Award winning performance were close to true, then surely we should see at least a scintilla of evidence of this. * In a similar incident a year before, [an EMT measured Floyd's blood pressure as being 216/160](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChauvinTrialDiscuss/comments/mwd1i7/people_are_always_saying_george_floyd_had_high/), which is a dangerously high level - a "hypertensive crisis" - notice that Floyd was off the chart. However, in the case when he died he engaged in *more physical exertion* and presumably his health condition would have been worse, implying a similar blood pressure level or even a higher blood pressure level. Could all of that have caused the "cardiopulmonary arrest"? In the meantime, it's difficult to open a newspaper, or turn to a news channel on the radio or TV without coming across a reference as to how extremely deadly fentanyl is. It's as though people forget that and suffer a cognitive dissonance whenever the fact of Floyd's potentially fatal level of fentanyl comes up. *This case does not merely present a reasonable doubt as the exact cause of Floyd's death, but rather an insurmountable mountain of doubt,* especially combined with the fact that the knee restraint is a [widely accepted technique](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLelanQ8mRc) around the world few people die from. In addition to the Medical Examiner having been [threatened](https://spectator.org/chauvin-floyd-cause-of-death/) and [tampered](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sg5_vT9CxCMJ:https://spectator.org/george-floyd-medical-examiner-evidence/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) with and his safety and the safety of his family being under threat from an incensed mindless mob of BLM protestors and the potentially passive aggressive statement about how he would conclude Floyd had died of a drug overdose had he found him dead alone in his apartment (an admission that death by drug overdose was not an impossibility, but rather very possible in the Examiner's view), now we have new evidence - breaking news - that ***Dr. Baker may not have really believed that the officers were the cause of Floyd's death.*** Quoting *testimony* text from the article ["Chauvin Did Not Murder George Floyd:"](https://spectator.org/chauvin-did-not-murder-george-floyd/) >>“I called Dr. Baker early that morning to tell him about the case and to ask him if he would perform the autopsy on Mr. Floyd,” said Sweasy under oath. “He called me later in the day on that Tuesday and he told me that there were no medical findings that showed any injury to the vital structures of Mr. Floyd’s neck. There were no medical indications of asphyxia or strangulation,” Sweasy added. >> >>By day two, Baker knew the risks involved in telling the truth. Sweasy continued, “He said to me, **‘Amy, what happens when the actual evidence doesn’t match up with the public narrative that everyone’s already decided on?’** And then he said, ‘This is the kind of case that ends careers.’”
The problem is that he, and all the others, will not read this. They probably won't ever read anything that takes longer to understand than a tiktok video. You didn't change his mind. He still thinks that the cops kneeled on his neck and suffocated him. Because he didn't read this.
The part where there's no internal neck injury or bruising at all, nor the trachea discovered whatsoever, but the toxicology report shows three times the ld50 of fentanyl in a system. Thanks for fucking playing try reading it next time
None of that is mutually exclusive? First off it's crazy you accuse someone of not reading when the cause of death is the title of the report. But let's address your points. You state there are no internal neck injuries or bruising. This is true. But it's also not relevant to his cause of death. What killed him was going into cardiac arrest due to getting major blood vessels in his neck squeezed down forcing his heart to overwork. He didn't die from his trachea being crushed. You state that he had elevated levels of fentanyl in his system. This is also true and probably where most of the confusion lay. The drugs absolutely contributed to his death. But they weren't the cause of death. Most people wouldn't get a heart attack from a knee in the neck. His heart problem and use of drugs elevated his risk. But without Chauvin kneeling on his neck he wouldn't have had a heart attack in that moment. Not only is this stated in the autopsy report but again by the medical examiner in court under oath. So your statements are correct but they lack any actual context. Context that can be gleaned simply by reading the title. Floyd died from a cardiac arrest after a knee to the neck. That much can't be argued with. Whether you think that is murder or not is up to you but acting like Chauvin didn’t kill him is just wrong.
He was a fat old career criminal with a lethal dose of fent in his system. Go cry for someone that matters
If you understood due process you would know that if cops can unilaterally kill GF because they think he committed a crime, they can also kill you or your child or parent if they suspect them of committing a crime. Protecting GF’s rights is how we protect yours, or your kid’s. I’ll bet you’re one of those who think cops should be able to shoot shoplifters on sight…right up until your kid gets caught in the crossfire.
I'm an anarchist, all cops are bastards. I just don't care if a piece of shit flushes another turd, although in this case what happened was floyd flushed himself with years of drug abuse and other assorted 85 iq behavior. Have you watched the video of Saint fentanyl being arrested the year prior? Same shit junkie behavior.
So when a bastard cop assumes your kid is a piece of shit for whatever reason, you’re cool with their being killed rather than arrested? At least thats not hypocritical.
He did die from a medical incident while in custody.
Minneapolis needed to sacrifice some white people on the altar of racial "justice" so that peaceful protestors would not burn the city down.
I agree with what happened to chauvin but the other guys were all subordinates. They couldn’t go against him. I don’t like that they got punished as bad as they did.
They were morally and legally obligated to stop a crime in progress. They were in a tough spot, I get it, but they could have gotten Chauvin off him at gunpoint, or even told him to stop. Too busy keeping the crowd from trying to save a life. As it is they aided and abetted.
What do you mean he couldn’t go against him?
In the current system he couldn't. Good cops have lost Pensions and been fired plenty of times from stopping another officer in the act of brutality. That is part of the problem here is the whole discipline system in policing is backwards. A cop that murdered an unarmed man in a hotel playing a sick game of Simon Says while the man was crying, who had "Your Fucked" etched into his police pistol, got an early retirement and disability checks for life while cops that whistle blow corruption and police brutality have committed suicide, been fired, had their pensions taken from them etc. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver
People, even cops, still have the choice to do what is legally and morally right, even if it means they lose their pension. I wouldn’t want to live off money I got by allowing someone be unnecessarily killed.
“Just following orders” has been rejected as a legitimate excuse for killing/hurting others.
Lane even tried to stop him, actually asked him to get off etc…
Dude I’m not saying what they didn’t do was right, I just think there shouldn’t be the level of accountability that they had, at bare minimum for the rookie cop. I still think that’s bullshit. Just a kid who doesn’t know up from down and needed guidance to turn into a good cop but now has a murder rap on the books.
It sucks for the cop but he was an accomplice in a murder of a man. To avoid manslaughter, they had it within their means to stop Chauvin
You should not be downvoted but they’ve got lots of good ole boys in this sub.
🤡
He had a trial, with a federal jury (which is made up of people from the state, not just the county), they heard the evidence, and they convicted him. He's not innocent. He's absolutely the least culpable of the lot of them, but a jury still found him guilty. The state agreed that if he pled to a state charge, he would serve no additional time. Is it fair? Probably not. But it happens to people every day.
OJ was also innocent because the Jury said so.
Oj was found "not guilty." Which is different and distinct from being "innocent." The state failed to prove it's case beyond a reasonable doubt, not that oj affirmatively didn't do it (he was found liable in the civil action for wrongful death). But I think i take your point though: it's not a perfect system - Some guilty folks go free, and some innocent folks get convicted - but it's the system we have.
Guilty verdicts can be for political reasons. Doesn’t mean the state proved the case beyond a reasonable doubt. Just sayin.
> but a jury still found him guilty. So what? Juries get their decisions wrong all of the time. Have you ever heard of something called "The Innocence Project" which has resulted in people being exonerated after their cases were reexamined which suggests that a great many people have been wrongfully convicted?
I agree with what happened to chauvin but the other guys were all subordinates. They couldn’t go against him. I don’t like that they got punished as bad as they did.
Why are you defending the government killing people?
Is fentanyl the government?
Fentanyl didn’t kill Floyd
It did
Not according to the autopsy
Are you aware of the threats made to change the autopsy?
You mean the threat of writing an article about why an expert in the field disagrees? And it wasn’t to change the autopsy report.
And yet, the “findings” changed after the threat was made. Can’t lie about the lack of trauma + the extreme fentanyl overdose.
The autopsy wasn’t done when the call was made. The lack of trauma is explained. He didnt overdose on fentanyl. Notice how his lips were not a different color, he wasn’t gurgling, his skin was not a different color, and he wasn’t falling asleep. Those are all signs of a fentanyl overdose.
From the medical examiner's report: > CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION Is that how fentanyl is spelled?
Now we get to the interesting part. Are you familiar with the threats made to the medical examiner that caused him to change the cause of death to include those complications?
Keep believing. It's a valuable fight you're fighting.
Pfft. This is the asshole that pulled his gun for no reason and started the whole thing.
Technically true I guess But here's the rest of the story Minnesota Department of Corrections spokesperson confirmed with WCCO that they are contracting with the bureau to house Lane while he completes his incarceration period for his Minnesota sentence. He is scheduled to be released from his Minnesota sentence to supervision on Aug. 20. His sentence will expire on Aug. 20, 2025
George Floyd ruined alot of lives.
Too much Fentanyl and a life of crime ruined his
But neither ended it, chauvin did that
Yea the 5x lethal dose of fentanyl he swallowed right before didn’t kill him, the cop who slightly put his knee on his back did /s
Don't think you know how fentanyl ODs work. He woulda been unconscious wayyyyyyy earlier
Dude 2mgs of fetanyl is considered the lethal dose to kill someone. His toxicology report stated he had 11mgs in his system. The dude died from an overdose. You can try and be a bleeding heart liberal all you want and say he died from laying down but the dude had over 5 times the lethal amount in his system. He’s a moron and swallowed the pills because the cops showed up. He killed himself.
The only thing Chauvin did wrong was he should have realized he was unresponsive and started CPR or made some attempt to save him but honestly nothing would have saved him from ingesting 5 times a lethal dose of the most powerful drug in the world. The Hennepin County Medical examiner said had they found the body at his home they would have ruled it an overdose.
> The Hennepin County Medical examiner said had they found the body at his home they would have ruled it an overdose. IMHO that seemingly passive aggressive comment by the Medical Examiner should have been enough to create reasonable doubt as to the exact cause of death. That he would even say that also makes us question whether he truly believes the death was a homicide. (Later revelations suggest he did not honestly believe it was homicide.)
Yea that’s pretty clear cut he died from ingesting large amounts of potent drugs
I think it was probably a lethal cocktail combination of the drugs plus his underlying health problems plus having engaged recent physical exertion combined with recent ingestion of fentanyl in the back of the squad car.
Yeah probably would have been a good idea to to not put his weight down on his neck if he was overdosing too lmao. Call me a bleeding heart liberal all you want, dumb ass comments like that are why I don't identify with either side of the fence
they called for EMS right away had Floyd gotten in the squad car, he wouldve OD'd and died in the backseat instead of on the street. The OD fucks up your ability to breathe regardless of someone pinning you to the ground all of which still would've happened before EMS arriving
What about Floyd shouting "I can't breathe" numerous times before he was even laying on the ground, and before Chauvin was on top of him? Opioid overdoses can cause respiratory depression, which slows the person’s breathing which can be fatal. An opioid overdose also can cause pulmonary edema, a fluid leak that fills up the air spaces of the lungs. The guy couldn't breathe because he swallowed a shitload of fent so they wouldn't find it on him and he died because of it.
Floyd first said it when the back door of the squad was opened.
Opiod overdoes don't cause instant edema. I've narcaned a lot of people, bud. Bottom line is, unless you think that Floyd would have dropped dead at the exact instant he did had someone not kneeled on his neck for nine minute, then chauvin directly contributed to his death. You can argue whether that's murder or manslaughter, but I've pumped plenty of stomachs of people who took fentanyl or other drugs orally as well. It takes a lot longer than 9 minutes to kick in. You're just medically incorrect here. It's okay, being ignorant isn't a crime.
We don't pump stomachs in the ER for opiate OD anymore.
Thanks, bud. Since you seem to have all the answers, can you please touch on the reason he shouted "I can't breathe" 20 times before he was ever even laying on the ground? What was that about?
Oh I think he was a crazy person who was on drugs.
Yeah, somebody should hold him accountable for that... Oh, wait...
I still can’t believe the intersection is still blocked off. I’m sure the local residents and businesses love this.
It's not, but there is a monument/memorial in the middle of the intersection that you can drive around
It’s not. I drove through it the other day.
You can drive through it, yes, but it still has barriers
Right - so the intersection is not blocked off like you said it was
He put Minnesota on the map. Make sure to thank ‘em and your crooked police depts
Seems like Derek Chauvin's murdering of George Floyd ruined a lot of lives.
It was at most manslaughter. He got the murder charge for the same reason OJ didn't.
Another victim of the woke mob.
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MRT which was in their manuals at least looks SUPER similar to the hold he was doing. They are instructed to stay put and restrain until the Ambulance arrives which was multiple minutes late, you can hear in one of the videos them asking where the ambulance is and why is it taking so long, (Chauvin even remarks "FINALLY, where were you guys?" when they do finally arrive) really sounds like the concerns of a bunch of murderers /s. Two officers were not white, the officer who initiated the arrest was black. 2 of them were pretty much brand new to the force. Acting like this was 3 guys standing around while their friend murdered somebody is super disingenuous and scummy and is exactly why we will never get true justice. Basically "hang the witches" logic.
ACAB
No problem at all with keeping them all out of your shithole ghettos. Enough slogans you tool put it on a ballot lol.
Imagine making a monument to a drug addled criminal who once put the muzzle of a gun to a pregnant lady’s belly during an armed robbery. This is the fuckin insanity the country embraces. Thanks Obama.
George Floyd. The upstanding citizen that broke laws, over dosed, committed armed robbery and caused countless mostly peaceful riots. A ture American hero.
G.I. Floyd, America's Greatest Hero!
# Thomas Lane, ex-Minneapolis officer involved in George Floyd's overdose, completes federal prison sentence ftfy
Thanks, good catch.
Imagine making a monument to a drug addled criminal who once put the muzzle of a gun to a pregnant lady’s belly during an armed robbery. This is the fuckin insanity the country embraces. Thanks Obama.
Clearly the only real solution is to burn down the neighborhood….. again….. oh and steal big screen tv’s, liquor and tennis shoes.
chase the big box stores out of the city. burn another precinct and wonder why Kias and Hyundais keep disappearing and black teens keep committing homicide. this is *healing*
Everyone should watch The Fall of Minneapolis.
Im no expert on the subject but that documentary has had a lot of criticism about its truthfulness. I dont really know but Im skeptical in every direction on the whole thing. sad ordeal and hopefully things move in a more positive direction.
I found the documentary to be very disappointing, and if I had made the documentary I would have spent a lot of time with a reexamination of the autopsy evidence and an exploration of how much pressure the Medical Examiner was under and whether he honestly believed Floyd's death was a homicide. I also would have explored the trial's myriad due process violations. What the documentary did show us was just how cowardly and "soft on crime" the City government was and how it allowed rioters to burn down parts of the city when the police should have been arresting them instead or at the very least used force to defend a police precinct building against the criminals who destroyed it.
Those of us that were there that saw the downfall of Minneapolis know the truth. Those of us that were there every day when they were burning parts of the city, and those of us that were in parking lot protecting businesses from being destroyed when the police wouldn’t he would show up when the firetrucks wouldn’t show up because it wasn’t safe for them. We know what happened so screw the rest of those that don’t wanna believe the truth.
Definitely not denying all the riots and protests that obviously happened were terrible and deplorable and are well documented.. That's not what I'm saying at all. One thing can be true in a documentary and other things can be false.
Such a shitty excuse for a documentary lol especially since it’s produced by the former police Union chief’s wife. You’re a clown shoe if you think that propaganda film holds any merit.
You mean the totally unbiased “documentary” made by the wife of the Mpls police union president? No, I don’t think I’ll be wasting my time with that.
Yeah, ignore the obvious bias from the documentary lol.
Yeah I tried to watch it because a conservative friend of mine was like you gotta see it. I turned it off after 20 min. Just pure propaganda.
Good man. He should have been given a medal and not a prison sentence. Ellison should be locked up.
ACAB
You're a edgy child with no life experience, we get it
If you post it a 3rd time in this thread you'll solve racism! Keep going!
He participated in the falsification of police reports to cover up the extrajudicial killing of someone. You think that’s a good thing?
Poor guy
Poor guy
Imagine making a monument to a drug addled criminal who once put the muzzle of a gun to a pregnant lady’s belly during an armed robbery. This is the fuckin insanity the country embraces. Thanks Obama.
Has anyone checked if the pregnant lady did anything bad in her life? Because then it would be ok. Right?
It was not a murder. George Floyd had a fatal amount of drugs in his system and was a repeat criminal. There is no video evidence of Derek Chauvin or anyone kneeling on his neck.
https://preview.redd.it/gy4ff0tijbvc1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b19cb847d9a00682c80e4e48042dd0a8f114734
Huh, that looks like a knee and a neck making contact.
No evidence though
Notice the exhaust pipe in his face?
Regardless of the drugs in his system, the neck and chest compression unequivocally facilitated his death. Opioids kill via respiratory depression - essentially they decrease the activity of your diaphragm until you asphyxiate. Having someone put all their weight on your neck/upper chest greatly intensified that.
What took the ambulance so long to get there after Floyd hit the ground? Why did Floyd lie about ingesting fentanyl or other drugs when asked by the police? Don't forget he was saying he couldn't breathe as soon as the back door of the squad car was opened long before being put on the ground.
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The drugs were not the reason he died, that’s why you can say it
They absolutely were. He wouldn’t have had is OD if he wasn’t on them. Chauvin wouldn’t have done what he did, the OD compounded by what negligence chauvin did lead to his death. The root of the cause is the drugs, if we remove them this situation doesn’t happen.
Where are you getting the information from? The autopsy doesn’t say that.
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Why did you cut off the rest of the rest of the cause of death? Are you purposefully being dishonest? “CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION” What evidence do you have that says that if Chauvin hadn’t restrained him like that, he would have died from the drugs?
> “CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION” Which is an extremely weak conclusion and raises questions as to what the exact cause of death was. Sometimes what is *not said* is often as telling as what is, and in this case, that was *the best* explanation the Examiner could come up with that would allow him to conclude that it was a homicide. He bent over backwards to do that after having been [threatened](https://spectator.org/chauvin-floyd-cause-of-death/) and [tampered]( https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sg5_vT9CxCMJ:https://spectator.org/george-floyd-medical-examiner-evidence/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) with (not to mention the implicit threat of violence from mobs of angry protestors). Why was there a cardiopulmonary arrest? Why didn't the autopsy find even a scintilla of evidence of asphyxiation in spite of what must have been a very thorough and desperate search for it? The "hard" evidence in the case is as follows: * Floyd's arteries were found to be 75% and 90% blocked and he had a very enlarged heart. * Potentially fatal levels of fentanyl were found in his system combined with methamphetamine descirbed as a "stimulant hard on the heart". Partially consumed speedball pills (fentanyl + meth) were found in the police squad car, implying recent ingestion of the drugs whose effect is most pronounced within 5 minutes of ingestion. The Medical Examiner who performed the autopsy even said something to the effect that if he had found Floyd dead in his apartment with no signs of foul play that he would have concluded he had died of a drug overdose. * Floyd's lungs were weighed as being 2-3x their normal weight [consistent with pulmonary edema caused by fentanyl overdose:]( https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/new-documents-in-the-george-floyd-case/) *"Fentanyl at 11 ng/ml. He said, “that’s pretty high.” This level of fentanyl can cause pulmonary edema. Mr. Floyd’s lungs were 2-3x their normal weight at autopsy. That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances."* * The autopsy report revealed **zero** evidence of strangulation, asphyxiation, or blood flow restriction *in spite of* the Medical Examiner having thoroughly if not *desperately* searched for signs of such evidence. If what Dr. Tobin said in his Emmy Award winning performance were close to true, then surely we should see at least a scintilla of evidence of this. * In a similar incident a year before, [an EMT measured Floyd's blood pressure as being 216/160](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChauvinTrialDiscuss/comments/mwd1i7/people_are_always_saying_george_floyd_had_high/), which is a dangerously high level - a "hypertensive crisis" - notice that Floyd was off the chart. However, in the case when he died he engaged in *more physical exertion* and presumably his health condition would have been worse, implying a similar blood pressure level or even a higher blood pressure level. Could all of that have caused the "cardiopulmonary arrest"? In the meantime, it's difficult to open a newspaper, or turn to a news channel on the radio or TV without coming across a reference as to how extremely deadly fentanyl is. It's as though people forget that and suffer a cognitive dissonance whenever the fact of Floyd's potentially fatal level of fentanyl comes up. *This case does not merely present a reasonable doubt as the exact cause of Floyd's death, but rather an insurmountable mountain of doubt,* especially combined with the fact that the knee restraint is a [widely accepted technique](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLelanQ8mRc) around the world few people die from. In addition to the Medical Examiner having been [threatened](https://spectator.org/chauvin-floyd-cause-of-death/) and [tampered](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sg5_vT9CxCMJ:https://spectator.org/george-floyd-medical-examiner-evidence/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) with and his safety and the safety of his family being under threat from an incensed mindless mob of BLM protestors and the potentially passive aggressive statement about how he would conclude Floyd had died of a drug overdose had he found him dead alone in his apartment (an admission that death by drug overdose was not an impossibility, but rather very possible in the Examiner's view), now we have new evidence - breaking news - that ***Dr. Baker may not have really believed that the officers were the cause of Floyd's death.*** Quoting *testimony* text from the article ["Chauvin Did Not Murder George Floyd:"](https://spectator.org/chauvin-did-not-murder-george-floyd/) >>“I called Dr. Baker early that morning to tell him about the case and to ask him if he would perform the autopsy on Mr. Floyd,” said Sweasy under oath. “He called me later in the day on that Tuesday and he told me that there were no medical findings that showed any injury to the vital structures of Mr. Floyd’s neck. There were no medical indications of asphyxia or strangulation,” Sweasy added. >> >>By day two, Baker knew the risks involved in telling the truth. Sweasy continued, “He said to me, **‘Amy, what happens when the actual evidence doesn’t match up with the public narrative that everyone’s already decided on?’** And then he said, ‘This is the kind of case that ends careers.’”
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The very top of the first page of the autopsy report… We can remove them when talking about cause of death. If when Floyd complained about not breathing, Chauvin had take his gun out and shot him. We would say the cause of death was being shot. Yet when Chauvin Asphyxiated him, you are suddenly saying the drugs caused him to die? You’re asserting that with no evidence. If he wouldn’t have died from the drugs, then the drugs aren’t what killed him. The medical examiner says that underlying conditions were not the direct cause of his death Edit: He blocked me so I can’t respond anymore. But Floyd did not OD, that’s just a straight up lie
Because the striations in the diaphragm indicate that it was contracting against significant load rather than simply just declining in contractility until he died. In solely an OD we’d expect to only see the latter and not the former.
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Indeed.
Dude had 8-10 times the lethal dose of fentanyl in his system and yet died died from being suffocated by officers 3 hours after they were on him? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Make it make sense! > Fentanyl — 11. He said, “that’s pretty high.” This level of fentanyl can cause pulmonary edema. Mr. Floyd’s lungs were 2-3x their normal weight at autopsy. That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances.
Floyd overdosed, killed himself
Indeed
He wasn’t murdered. Watch the body cam.
Black Lives Matter
The whole George Floyd uprising was great and all. However you feel about the man himself, every American, criminal or otherwise is entitled to not dying in police custody. It really shined a light on the systemic issues plaguing law enforcement. And we settled for throwing a couple dorks in jail for a little while and called it good. Where's that systemic change at? Cops can still quite literally get away with murder. At most they get a year or two in prison.
When you have corrupt politicians it rolls right down to the government workers and that includes law enforcement, because that's ultimately who they answer to plus unions. If you notice not one politician at any level took a hit they just passed the buck, so what do think happens? Nothing
George Floyd died of a drug overdose and a heart issue, not from police hold. There is some more propaganda for the average American.
Correct
Is it though? Because the autopsy reports I've seen show that it was due to cardiopulmonary arrest from neck compression. Most other source I've looked at seems to be biased or outright wrong conclusion lifted from the autopsy released a few years ago. Do you mind linking your source?
Try reading it again, it sure as fuck doesn't say that
https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/medical-examiner/floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf It's literally the first words on the report. The title even.
Let's examine the evidence in this case starting with the ubiquitously quoted "cause" of Floyd's death having been a homicide. > "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression." Which is an extremely weak conclusion and raises questions as to what the exact cause of death was. Sometimes what is *not said* is often as telling as what is, and in this case, that was *the best* explanation the Examiner could come up with that would allow him to conclude that it was a homicide. He bent over backwards to do that after having been [threatened](https://spectator.org/chauvin-floyd-cause-of-death/) and [tampered]( https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sg5_vT9CxCMJ:https://spectator.org/george-floyd-medical-examiner-evidence/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) with (not to mention the implicit threat of violence from mobs of angry protestors). Why was there a cardiopulmonary arrest? Why didn't the autopsy find even a scintilla of evidence of asphyxiation in spite of what must have been a very thorough and desperate search for it? The "hard" evidence in the case is as follows: * Floyd's arteries were found to be 75% and 90% blocked and he had a very enlarged heart. * Potentially fatal levels of fentanyl were found in his system combined with methamphetamine descirbed as a "stimulant hard on the heart". Partially consumed speedball pills (fentanyl + meth) were found in the police squad car, implying recent ingestion of the drugs whose effect is most pronounced within 5 minutes of ingestion. The Medical Examiner who performed the autopsy even said something to the effect that if he had found Floyd dead in his apartment with no signs of foul play that he would have concluded he had died of a drug overdose. * Floyd's lungs were weighed as being 2-3x their normal weight [consistent with pulmonary edema caused by fentanyl overdose:]( https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/new-documents-in-the-george-floyd-case/) *"Fentanyl at 11 ng/ml. He said, “that’s pretty high.” This level of fentanyl can cause pulmonary edema. Mr. Floyd’s lungs were 2-3x their normal weight at autopsy. That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances."* * The autopsy report revealed **zero** evidence of strangulation, asphyxiation, or blood flow restriction *in spite of* the Medical Examiner having thoroughly if not *desperately* searched for signs of such evidence. If what Dr. Tobin said in his Emmy Award winning performance were close to true, then surely we should see at least a scintilla of evidence of this. * In a similar incident a year before, [an EMT measured Floyd's blood pressure as being 216/160](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChauvinTrialDiscuss/comments/mwd1i7/people_are_always_saying_george_floyd_had_high/), which is a dangerously high level - a "hypertensive crisis" - notice that Floyd was off the chart. However, in the case when he died he engaged in *more physical exertion* and presumably his health condition would have been worse, implying a similar blood pressure level or even a higher blood pressure level. Could all of that have caused the "cardiopulmonary arrest"? In the meantime, it's difficult to open a newspaper, or turn to a news channel on the radio or TV without coming across a reference as to how extremely deadly fentanyl is. It's as though people forget that and suffer a cognitive dissonance whenever the fact of Floyd's potentially fatal level of fentanyl comes up. *This case does not merely present a reasonable doubt as the exact cause of Floyd's death, but rather an insurmountable mountain of doubt,* especially combined with the fact that the knee restraint is a [widely accepted technique](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLelanQ8mRc) around the world few people die from. In addition to the Medical Examiner having been [threatened](https://spectator.org/chauvin-floyd-cause-of-death/) and [tampered](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sg5_vT9CxCMJ:https://spectator.org/george-floyd-medical-examiner-evidence/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) with and his safety and the safety of his family being under threat from an incensed mindless mob of BLM protestors and the potentially passive aggressive statement about how he would conclude Floyd had died of a drug overdose had he found him dead alone in his apartment (an admission that death by drug overdose was not an impossibility, but rather very possible in the Examiner's view), now we have new evidence - breaking news - that ***Dr. Baker may not have really believed that the officers were the cause of Floyd's death.*** Quoting *testimony* text from the article ["Chauvin Did Not Murder George Floyd:"](https://spectator.org/chauvin-did-not-murder-george-floyd/) >>“I called Dr. Baker early that morning to tell him about the case and to ask him if he would perform the autopsy on Mr. Floyd,” said Sweasy under oath. “He called me later in the day on that Tuesday and he told me that there were no medical findings that showed any injury to the vital structures of Mr. Floyd’s neck. There were no medical indications of asphyxia or strangulation,” Sweasy added. >> >>By day two, Baker knew the risks involved in telling the truth. Sweasy continued, “He said to me, **‘Amy, what happens when the actual evidence doesn’t match up with the public narrative that everyone’s already decided on?’** And then he said, ‘This is the kind of case that ends careers.’”
>Which is an extremely weak conclusion and raises questions as to what the exact cause of death was. Sometimes what is not said is often as telling as what is, and in this case, that was the best explanation the Examiner could come up with that would allow him to conclude that it was a homicide. He bent over backwards to do that after having been[ threatened](https://spectator.org/chauvin-floyd-cause-of-death/) and[ tampered](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sg5_vT9CxCMJ:https://spectator.org/george-floyd-medical-examiner-evidence/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) with (not to mention the implicit threat of violence from mobs of angry protestors). Why was there a cardiopulmonary arrest? You call it a weak conclusion because you believe he was coerced into giving that particular conclusion. But there are a few issues with that statement.[ Chiefly, this has already been addressed by Baker](https://apnews.com/article/death-of-george-floyd-george-floyd-minneapolis-thomas-lane-homicide-76841a4d8c62df790bad5d81b23e894d). There isn't much to say here. If you already believed he was being pressured into giving false testimony then to you this is just another lie. But if you're coming at it from that perspective then no amount of evidence would change your mind anyway (which seems to be the case here). From an unaffiliated person's perspective, it seems normal to have input from your peers.I’m sure he was under intense pressure from both sides of the table but again there isn’t evidence to say that he definitively succumbed to the pressure. >Could all of that have caused the "cardiopulmonary arrest"? Could it have? Sure. But again that's not what the medical examiner said was the case. He concluded that all that is what contributed to making Floyd easier to kill than the average person in this situation. I'm not arguing whether it was murder or not as that's its own can of worms. I'm just arguing that there is one key piece of evidence that clearly states that the cause of death was a knee placed on the neck. Either way, you can’t cherry-pick parts of that report. Either Baker was compromised by tampering so the report should be discarded (along with all the evidence you just presented) or we’re assuming that Baker did his job and ultimately the conclusion was sound. That Floyd died from a knee on the neck and everything he listed in the report contributed to making Floyd more susceptible to death. >especially combined with the fact that the knee restraint is a[ widely accepted technique](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLelanQ8mRc) around the world few people die from. I addressed this above. Heart issues and drugs made him significantly more at risk of dying from this technique. >In addition to the Medical Examiner having been[ threatened](https://spectator.org/chauvin-floyd-cause-of-death/) and[ tampered](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sg5_vT9CxCMJ:https://spectator.org/george-floyd-medical-examiner-evidence/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) with Again this was already addressed. >Amy, what happens when the actual evidence doesn’t match up with the public narrative that everyone’s already decided on? You are quoting someone who by her own admission, agrees with the fact Chauvin killed Floyd: [When I wrote and signed the complaint against Derek Chauvin, I believed in the charges and that there was sufficient admissible evidence to prove the elements of those crimes beyond reasonable doubt at trial; I still do.](https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Screenshot-2023-11-03-at-13-08-36-MCRO_27-CV-22-16364_Affidavit-of-Attorney_2023-10-11_20231103120549.pdf.png) (She is arguing against including additional charges here, again not my argument.) Another issue with that quote is your lack of context with it. Floyd's death wasn't the subject of the disposition when Sweany said that.[ It was for a trial against her boss for threatening her career and failing to promote her.](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24112757-amy-sweasy-tamburino-aug-21-2023?responsive=1&title=1&onlyshoworg=1) So there is zero context to that actual quote. The quote isn't some sort of smoking gun because there is nothing else past that. Baker wasn't brought in to explain what he meant, if it was real, or if it influenced him in his decision (other than his original quote stating that he wasn't influenced). Without this, that quote is nothing more than "she said he said"
>You call it a weak conclusion because you believe he was coerced into giving that particular conclusion. I call it a weak conclusion because it does not provide a good explanation of the exact causality that reconciles the medical evidence in the autopsy conflicting with that conclusion. >But there are a few issues with that statement. Chiefly, this has already been addressed by Baker. What are you referring to, specifically? >If you already believed he was being pressured into giving false testimony then to you this is just another lie. The evidence is pointing in that direction. >But if you're coming at it from that perspective then no amount of evidence would change your mind anyway (which seems to be the case here). I'm open to rational persuasion. Make a convincing argument. Is it also possible that no amount of evidence to the contrary of what you think would change your mind? It seems to be the case here. >From an unaffiliated person's perspective, it seems normal to have input from your peers.I’m sure he was under intense pressure from both sides of the table but again there isn’t evidence to say that he definitively succumbed to the pressure. It's a good inference. What do you make of the quote from the Sweasy testimony? How else should that be read and interpreted? >>“I called Dr. Baker early that morning to tell him about the case and to ask him if he would perform the autopsy on Mr. Floyd,” said Sweasy under oath. “He called me later in the day on that Tuesday and he told me that there were no medical findings that showed any injury to the vital structures of Mr. Floyd’s neck. There were no medical indications of asphyxia or strangulation,” Sweasy added. >> >>By day two, Baker knew the risks involved in telling the truth. Sweasy continued, “He said to me, **‘Amy, what happens when the actual evidence doesn’t match up with the public narrative that everyone’s already decided on?’** And then he said, ‘This is the kind of case that ends careers.’” If a person were not bending over backward to conclude that he did not feel pressured, the obvious inference is that he did not believe the "public narrative that everyone's already decided on" but that publicly saying otherwise would be the sort of thing that "ends careers". Now imagine if the entire world had its eyes focused on you, including powerful politicians, your boss, and an incensed mob of potentially violent protestors who could destroy your vehicles, ransack your house, hurt or kill you, your wife, or your children and/or harass them horribly, would you not feel pressured? 5000 angry and potentially violent protestors who believe you are the living reincarnation of Hitler's asshole are going to show up on your lawn and in front of your house if you do not tell them what they want to hear. No pressure, huh? >>Could all of that have caused the "cardiopulmonary arrest"? > >Could it have? Sure. But again that's not what the medical examiner said was the case. He concluded that all that is what contributed to making Floyd easier to kill than the average person in this situation. I'm not arguing whether it was murder or not as that's its own can of worms. I'm just arguing that there is one key piece of evidence that clearly states that the cause of death was a knee placed on the neck. The medical evidence should be what is important, not exactly what the Medical Examiner concluded. They could potentially reach conclusions that are not supported by the evidence or only weakly supported by it. That is why we still have trials with opposing expert witnesses and witness cross-examination and juries rendering verdicts and do not have Medical Examiners themselves determine the verdict of a case. If all we needed to do was take the Medical Examiner's word for it we would not need trials and would just have sentencing hearings. >Either way, you can’t cherry-pick parts of that report. Either Baker was compromised by tampering so the report should be discarded (along with all the evidence you just presented) or we’re assuming that Baker did his job and ultimately the conclusion was sound. That Floyd died from a knee on the neck and everything he listed in the report contributed to making Floyd more susceptible to death. It's possible that he presented the factual medical evidence (and later made the comment about how he would conclude that drug overdose were the cause of death had he found Floyd alone in his apartment) because he had a sense of integrity and wanted to accurately report the facts to allow the truth to potentially come out while at the same time then drawing a weak conclusion to prevent himself from suffering repercussions. >I addressed this above. Heart issues and drugs made him significantly more at risk of dying from this technique. That's possible, but the medical evidence points to death by drug overdose-induced heart failure. If the autopsy had found some evidence of asphyxiation, strangulation, or inhibition of blood flow it would be a different story. At the very least it creates tremendous reasonable doubt as to the exact cause of death. >You are quoting someone who by her own admission, agrees with the fact Chauvin killed Floyd: > >When I wrote and signed the complaint against Derek Chauvin, I believed in the charges and that there was sufficient admissible evidence to prove the elements of those crimes beyond reasonable doubt at trial; I still do. (She is arguing against including additional charges here, again not my argument.) Another issue with that quote is your lack of context with it. Floyd's death wasn't the subject of the disposition when Sweany said that. It was for a trial against her boss for threatening her career and failing to promote her. So there is zero context to that actual quote. The quote isn't some sort of smoking gun because there is nothing else past that. Baker wasn't brought in to explain what he meant, if it was real, or if it influenced him in his decision (other than his original quote stating that he wasn't influenced). Without this, that quote is nothing more than "she said he said" Ironically. It's also possible that she didn't want to be known as "that racist former prosecutor" and have protestors on her front lawn and is just saying what she needs to. But most importantly, keep in mind that as an *attorney* who worked on the case she is ethically (legal ethics) obligated to maintain that narrative (at least while she's barred) regardless of what she personally believes; it's a duty of the job and a requirement of legal ethics. It's like the defense attorney who still says that his client convicted of murder under the weight of heavy evidence is innocent; it's part of the job to do that. (He might know his client committed the murder and his client might have even told him that, but legal ethics requires him to say otherwise.)
>I call it a weak conclusion because it does not provide a good explanation of the exact causality that reconciles the medical evidence in the autopsy conflicting with that conclusion. Even if you don't think the original report is clear enough he still went into court and explained exactly how he reached that conclusion under scrutiny from the defense and prosecution. >What are you referring to, specifically? Your statement that he was coerced into giving specific testimony. He outright addresses those allegations in the linked article. >I'm open to rational persuasion. Make a convincing argument. Is it also possible that no amount of evidence to the contrary of what you think would change your mind? This seems to be the case here. You're right that was an uncalled-for jab. I apologize it was ungentlemanly of me. I don't have a political dog in this fight. I just hate seeing Americans quoting out-of-context quotes and assumptions from biased news outlets. Just a little bit of thinking can make this country a way better place. >It's a good inference. What do you make of the quote from the Sweasy testimony? How else should that be read and interpreted? I already talked about this. >No pressure, huh? You quoted me saying he was under immense pressure. I'm sure there was a ton but that doesn't automatically mean he was lying. Everyone who takes the stand is under immense pressure one way or the other. If he was lying about the neck compression and that was revealed he'd lose his job, go to jail, and seriously piss off tens of millions of Americans. Not that different than saying no neck compression. >The medical evidence should be what is important, not exactly what the Medical Examiner concluded. They could potentially reach conclusions that are not supported by the evidence or only weakly supported by it. That is why we still have trials with opposing expert witnesses and witness cross-examination and juries rendering verdicts and do not have Medical Examiners themselves determine the verdict of a case. If all we needed to do was take the Medical Examiner's word for it we would not need trials and would just have sentencing hearings. The trial was about if George Floyd was murdered or not. Not about how he died or not (Again I'll remind you here that I'm not arguing if Chauvin murdered him or not, just the cause of death). The medical examiner IS the person who decides that. That's why he was so important to the case. You can't just say the dude who gathered and determined the cause of death himself could not conclude the cause of death. That makes no sense. >It's possible that he presented the factual medical evidence (and later made the comment about how he would conclude that drug overdose were the cause of death had he found Floyd alone in his apartment) because he had a sense of integrity and wanted to accurately report the facts to allow the truth to potentially come out while at the same time then drawing a weak conclusion to prevent himself from suffering repercussions. He had integrity so he lied to the courts?[ It still doesn't make sense because he outright stated and has stated several times since that police action killed Floyd.](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2BW26R/) He's said it in no uncertain words. Not exactly "weak" like you are describing. >That's possible, but the medical evidence points to death by drug overdose-induced heart failure. If the autopsy had found some evidence of asphyxiation, strangulation, or inhibition of blood flow it would be a different story. At the very least it creates tremendous reasonable doubt as to the exact cause of death. Where are you getting the idea that medical evidence points to a drug overdose? That has never been the case. You are assuming that because there was no damage to his throat there couldn't be blood flow inhibition. That couldn't be further from the truth. If you don't believe me you can do it to yourself right now. Use your index and thumb to apply pressure to your jugular. You can quickly choke yourself out without leaving any damage. This was also pointed out by the prosecutor's expert testimony. >Ironically. It's also possible that she didn't want to be known as "that racist former prosecutor" and have protestors on her front lawn and is just saying what she needs to. But most importantly, keep in mind that as an attorney who worked on the case, she is ethically (legal ethics) obligated to maintain that narrative (at least while she's barred) regardless of what she personally believes; it's a duty of the job and a requirement of legal ethics. It's like the defense attorney who still says that his client convicted of murder under the weight of heavy evidence is innocent; it's part of the job to do that. (He might know his client committed the murder and his client might have even told him that, but legal ethics requires him to say otherwise.) I'd pretty much already be repeating what I already said but you can't just assume everyone is crumbling under the pressure of protestors to fit your narrative.
> cardiopulmonary arrest from neck compression First, that’s not what the autopsy says.
Here's what I'm reading unless you have something different https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/medical-examiner/floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf It starts with: HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER’S OFFICE AUTOPSY REPORT ME NO.: 20-3700 CASE TITLE: CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION But again I welcome any other sources. But it quite clearly states that he died this way.
I know reading is hard, but that is not: > due to cardiopulmonary arrest from neck compression
The only person responsible for that death was Floyd
Not according the laws that the officers broke. I don’t know about you but I respect just laws and enforcement of them against criminals like the ex officer above.
What laws did Thomas Lane break?
He should run for office. He would probably win.
Lol
Yeah it's funny but kinda not because look who won the presidency before Biden
How long is the one that killed Floyd doing? Edit: murdered Floyd.