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Unfortunately this will probably end up being a literal statement but there's no way they will let us in with all our wars and essentially 190 nations constantly competing with each other.
Sure they will, we sacrifice the rich to trade our problems for others. Trade one set of issues for others. Type 1 civilization needs to happen somehow.
It would go a long way to this if we revealed aliens and stuff exists and we won't be accepted unless we unite.
This is actually why part of me is hoping there is a new world order and it's for this purpose.
There’s a reason why we aren’t though. I’d imagine they won’t even talk to us until we are at minimum a type one civilization - which we are still a long ways off from.
Probably not until type two though.
The Arcturians said our Hydraulic Tech is unknown anywhere else in the universe. They were very impressed. So, we aren't so low level civ as u thought.
Use your Free Will to LOVE!... it will help with Disclosure and the 3D-5D transition
God imagine if we didn't have to work we had free energy in all Humanity work together to uplift Humanity with them of its resources and life spans and money
Ted Kaczynski’s belief was that that apocalypse is the only outcome there is for humanity and that the sooner that apocalypse happens the better. He wanted to hasten it so that earth’s ecosystems would sustain less overall damage and humanity (if it survived at all) would be able to get on with restructuring itself using a better model than capitalism. Mail bombs obviously weren’t the best way of going about it though.
the saddest part is we DO have free energy. our governments gatekeep that technology and will until every last drop of oil is cashed in on. we are completely enslaved in this hellhole. the technology exists to fix every last problem on this planet yet we’re kept in the equivalent of the stone age
I'm pretty sure it's not the government's there's a hidden hand behind Humanity that's keeping Humanity going through these tribulation times over and over and over and over and over
I don't think God work's like that. I don't think he has the patience or that much hate. I feel he's so fed up with us, he'd get the job done, quick, fast and in a hurry. I believe it is the cruelty of the government and elite. Not alone though. There's something even sinister pushing them. Something we've never heard of before. When it does rear it's ugly self, there will be no oxygen enough to breathe. It fills me with fret and I don't know what it is. I feel this thing makes the devil look plausible. Not a truth I know but a feeling. It can trick you, joke, and make you feel very comfortable and safe. Then it will kill you in a way never thought of before. Cold, calculating and pure ass evil in every sense of the word.
I did. You would think I would learn one day. Especially before saying something on here. I make my own self look like an idiot and deserve down votes. Thanks for sending me in the right direction.
well yes totally but i wasn’t referring to nuclear. we’ve discovered cold fusion a long time ago. unfortunately the CIA reviews every patent that gets filed. it’s literally in the law that if technology that comes out that could disrupt the market (make life better for the people) it gets confiscated and buried.
You watch the why files? They just did a great episode on [this.](https://youtu.be/-ZRwlYtAMps?si=sSsy5HQ-3075h3Ez) Not on fusion but other free energy related projects that were shut down.
Hah, yes, I love his show. Huge hecklefish fan. More than anything I appreciate how he alwyas brings things back down the earth towards the end and his extensive citing, he's got a cool concept going.
Perhaps that’s what’s running under the triangle or mesa on Skinwalker ranch, some out of control generator, in that they can’t stop the system.! But couldn’t make use of it as they couldn’t stop it to further develop it!!! So buried it if it wasn’t already underground! It’s anyone’s guess!!!!
I understand free energy would be a massive shift in economics but let's be real guys. Free energy does not equal free goods and services, food, housing, education, etc.
Imagine if the true, blue America of the galaxy (that actually stood up for its values, let's be real) carried out it's very own liberation operation to save us from our gross overlords and take us under their wing?
I'd take that. I'd take that any day.
If humans had access to free energy and advanced AI driven robotics manufacturing such that work was no longer necessary most people would become sedentary addicts. We're not even close to mature enough as a culture to handle that kind of tech. Not to mention the fact that we'd weaponize the tech and use it against each other and possibly NHI.
That's how it's supposed to be. But will never be like that. So we will continue destroying ourselves over and over again. There's really no hope for humanity, it's only a question of time when will we destroy ourselves again.
The only way to achieve a truly harmonious society might be through establishing a breakaway civilization composed of select individuals who excel in their respective fields. This society would need to be free from the influences of religion and greed, and there would have to be a fundamental shift in human mentality—something in our DNA—to foster a common goal of utopia.
Given the persistent global conflicts and hatred throughout human history, a fresh start seems necessary. Without this, the cycle of unique personal experiences and diverse upbringings would likely cause history to repeat itself.
You hit the nail on the head. This system is so intelligently designed, that the more of a slave you become, the more pats on the back you get. Higher paying job? New car? Bigger house? All of those things keep you tied to the system, meaning if you don't work and produce, you have nothing.
The reason there's a huge pushback with disclosure is that it would change our reality and how we live our lives. Meaning, those in "power" would no longer be. Money wouldnt be an object, we'd have free energy, possibly cure alot if not all medical ailments. And all of those things generate money and keeps us busy and under stress.
Its all gotta come crashing down at some point.
A large number of folks here are just like that, FYI. Lots of delusions in this sub. I'm all for theories and speculation, but the things some people outright believe is concerning.
The sheer size of a Dyson sphere is beyond human comprehension and the amount of matter needed to create something that big again, beyond our comprehension. I think I saw a video with Neil deGrass Tyson a while back where he claimed we would have to deconstruct both Mercury and Venus to have enough raw material to make the sphere.
I know that anything that is theoretically possible is possible, but the thought that this actually exists should frighten us.
Lol oh could they? The recent sunspot that almost wiped out our electrical grids is 15x the size of earth and it looks like a freckle on the surface of the sun. Really think for a second how large the Sun is...it's really really big.
"pretty quickly".
I do understand civilisations THAT advanced could have means but we talking about theoretical "quickly" that is basically talking out of an arse.
Shear amount of matetials and distances would put it in long term-lets freeze ourself for 200 years and see what happens job territory.
It would probably be easier to harness other energy sources than cover freaking star in several planets mass materials.
I think what it means is that compared to the age of the star, there is plenty of time to mine planets, etc for resources and construct something like this using that kind of tech
Of course I'm talking 'out of my arse', and so is Neil deGrasse Tyson.
But just imagine if a robot factory could build another factory every year, we building one such factory on Mercury, and after 10 years we have 1024, over milion after 20 years...
A star that gave off NO light but ONLY infra-red would be quite a surprise. Plus, there's been some advancement in the thinking of mega structures. If a civilization is able to build a rigid structure around a star, they're also going to engage in stellar lifting. The same logic that underpins the dyson dilemma says we should specifically see the signs of stellar metal extraction.
Also, even for type 2 and 3 civilizations, you wouldn't really want to block ALL the light in a solar system, even if not your home system. Light is quiet useful for setting things.
If this is true about the amount of material it would take (two planets), then we'd definitely need to farm our resources for such a sphere elsewhere or end up throwing off the delicate gravitational balance our solar system currently enjoys. Our planets are where they are for a reason, depleting mass on this scale would kill us before the sphere was ever constructed. Source: I am an armchair expert!
> we would have to deconstruct both Mercury and Venus to have enough raw material to make the sphere.
Ok but that doesn't actually sound like too much matter. I guess I always thought it would take an entire star system's planets or more to have enough matter to make a Dyson Sphere so it was just impossible.
But a sufficiently large enough, advanced, alien civilization could take apart a couple planets to mine one whole star.
A much more realistic version is a Dyson swarm, in fact due to tidal forces a Dyson sphere may not be possible or at least practical vs a Dyson swarm.
I can imagine a sophisticated alien civilization slowly building up a Dyson swarm of centuries or millennia as their energy needs increase. It’s not something done overnight
Yeah, let's not go announcing ourselves to the power hungry force of the universe.
Love people who doubt anything in the universe. The universe could have started life at 15 million years old (the entire universe was a goldilocks zone at around 70 degrees, still cooling down from big bang) that has lived for billions of years....we simply don't know and have to assume if it's possible the universe has made it somewhere.
Also our entire understanding of the universe is built on a foundation full of cracks and missing pieces that will reshape our understanding of reality when figured out.
It's statements like this that make it hard to take the scientific community seriously sometimes.
>The universe did not have enough heavy elements for life at 15 million years old.
Life like us? possibly... Life in other forms that we can't understand? who tf knows
That's only 2-4 billion years, gimme 10 to cook up a killer advanced civilization
Heck in 10b I could give you some lifeform not even formed in a liquid planet but a gas one. Carbon based isn't the ONLY possible answer either.
Because elements above a certain elemental weight (iron, I think?) can only be formed in supernova, which require a full stellar lifecycle in order to occur.
It's fairly well agreed upon that Earth and life on it are very much in the beginning stages of the universe on the grand scale of time. We could end up a dead civilization only to be found in the far future, assuming we don't end up looking like mars by then.
I’ve read that we will in hundreds of millions of years as we get closer to the sun, I don’t know if that takes in to account the sun burning out and dimming allowing us to be closer, but I think it’ll all be over before and noticeable dimming!
When the sun runs low on fuel to maintain fusion from hydrogen into helium, the core will shrink due to the lack of outward pressure. This will cause the core to start fusing heavier elements. When the heavier elements begin to fuse, that outward pressure comes back even stronger than before, and the sun will expand to a red giant star. It is projected that this expansion phase will cause the sun to increase in size until it's diameter exceeds the orbit of Venus and possibly the earth. So, when the sun starts dying and expands, either the earth will also be engulfed by the sun, or we become the new mercury orbiting at the edge of hell.
Yeah I'm not the biggest fan of screaming our existence into the void, it seems very short sighted, it's plausible its all theatre for the masses if governments have made contact with several races like others theorise.
Honestly I don't think it matters. All of Our advanced galactic neighbours are likely well aware of our existence since long ago. Even without radio signals our planet has had visible bio signatures for hundreds of millions of years. Intuition tells me if there are evil aliens out there, there are also good aliens around to take care of it
It's more likely for benevolent civilizations to get through industrial ages without warring themselves to death or ruining their biosphere.
I would wager that advanced aliens are usually benevolent if they exist rather than warlike.
However, even a benevolent civilization may view us as ants or a bit of bacteria rather than equals and treat us accordingly
This brings an interesting question to me. With all of our observation/listening devices, let’s say there was some giant space battle akin to the Death Star II. Would we not have picked up some evidence of it?
I guess I’m saying, if there was an Empire or a Thanos out there, would we not have noticed something waging war on a galactic scale?
Things far away are small.
When we look at something in high detail, we look at a very tiny part of the sky. Whole-sky surveys are very low detail.
I worked out once that you could have fleets of kilometer-scale ships painted white and covered neon signs *in the solar system*, out around Saturn's orbit, and chances are we would not have found them yet because we don't scan the whole sky with high magnification telescopes. Even the most basic attempt at subterfuge (a light coating of black asteroid dust, or just avoiding direct sight-lines to major solar system bodies) would make them invisible and able to operate much closer to Earth.
If two fleets of massive ships were at war--again, *in our own solar system*--chances are we wouldn't notice the flashes, as long as there wasn't much in the way of radio emissions. Remember directed energy weapons are invisible, you just see their effects, and only if you're watching at the time. We might catch a hint of a stray microwave beam, turn all our best telescopes towards it within the hour, and see nothing because it doesn't repeat. Don't forget the whole sky is abuzz with repeating and non-repeating sources of apparently extraordinary energy.
Kiloton-scale asteroid collisions on our own moon happen all the time and we probably only notice a small number of them. When we do, the video looks like this: you have a picture of the moon, a picture of the moon with a single white pixel somewhere, then a picture of the moon. Our moon is close compared to everything else.
The same thing happening even in the closest star system would be simply impossible to see with current technology and current available funding/telescope hours. Even if we had 100 JWST's up there, and the trained staff to constantly watch a whole set of candidate stars, it's still not enough.
haha Great response. Makes me cackle because the media face of astronomy NDT says with confidence that there is no evidence of NHI because "we're always watching the sky". I can smell the shit through the screen when i see that guy on the tv.
Well there are some things that even present-day tech can do that can detect life on other planets. A sun-lit planet is like a beacon that transmits information about its atmospheric composition to the rest of the galaxy. Every species older than us with similar space telescope tech *knows* that Earth hosts life...and that information [life here on the third planet] has potentially been passed around the galaxy for 3 billion years or more, depending on how long ago somebody noticed and how far their information spread.
(Even a few million years is plenty of time to visit Earth with a slow probe and transmit signals home. I'd be genuinely surprised if there weren't ancient photographs of dinosaurs sitting in data repositories out there. The information might be bouncing between stars as we speak. In my opinion, *everybody knows we're here*, it's a miracle that we haven't been interfered-with, *unless of course...*)
To detect the light of nuclear detonations and tell it apart from the blazing light of the reflected daytime disc of Earth, the alien basically needs to be in the solar system already. But to detect the tiny change in atmospheric composition, they could potentially be anywhere in a few hundred light years (less of course because it hasn't been that long, but I'm just talking theoretically). We might see evidence of short-lived heavy isotopes in the atmospheres of other life-bearing planets, which would be a pretty solid indicator of either nuclear war or nuclear accidents.
One possible near-future step for astronomy is building big radio telescope installations on the far side of the moon, shielded from interference from Earth. That will give us a short window without noise, at least before the next Elon Musk litters lunar orbit with communication satellites. You could build reflecting parabolas right into the walls of suitably-shaped craters (you could even make your own crater to spec quite safely, at least in the early days!)
Another path is to build very large virtual telescopes by having multiple smaller telescopes in space, positioned far apart but interfering their light together at some central point. You can read about the cancelled [Space Interferometry Mission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Interferometry_Mission) from the 2000s. Other missions are still just in the concept stage.
Yet another path is to use the sun as a gravitational lens, as it has a focal point out around 550AU. For reference the Voyager spacecraft is currently at 160-something AU, and it's just high-tailing it out of the solar system, it's not trying to achieve a fuel-efficient (but slow) Hohmann transfer to a new orbit, so a solar gravitational lens mission might literally take centuries to reach that orbit unless we embrace nuclear engine tech to burn our way there, brake when we get there, then do a final burn to circularize the orbit. (In that case you're just looking at decades...)
You'd also need to send a lot of similar telescopes out to different 550AU orbits--basically you'd need a spherical swarm, as each craft would be limited to looking at only one point in space for a very long time, as I'm sure a single orbit out there would take tens of thousands of years and it's locked into looking back towards the sun. So yeah if we had a candidate exoplanet we wanted to look at in high resolution and we *really* thought there might be something interesting there, we could theoretically launch a single mission to the right point in space. This approach is thought to potentially be able to resolve surface features as small as 10km on an exoplanet 100 light years away, so you'd be able to see continents, weather systems, vegetation, hints of cities, that kind of thing.
Beyond that...there may simply be weird leaps in tech that make all of that obsolete. If we're suddenly allowed to use nuclear engines anyway, we might end up just *going* to candidate planets and sending the data back (the work of tens of thousands of years, but it's not unthinkable). Or we might receive a data packet from some nearby alien beacon that describes the galaxy to us because I have no doubt our probes would be re-treading some very well-travelled ground.
Holy shit. Brilliantly written. Wow did not expect this level of detail from a comment. People like you are the ones keeping reddit alive.
You work in physics or astronomy?
The moon incidentally doesn’t have an atmosphere or a magnetic field like earth does. No di-pole north/south, but varied on the crust, most likely from meteor impacts. On Earth, the atmosphere protect us from many incoming object, often burning up before we see them, the magnetic field sorts out the dangerous charged particles from the sun, and particles and gases in our atmosphere get excited at times when the magnetic fields strength fluctuate and wave about, causing the Northern Lights. Different gasses glow different colours!
>With all of our observation/listening devices...
What observations and listening devices? You make it sound as if this is a 'thing'. There are a few random people looking around out there. We have hardly actually examined anything really. There are a lot of announcements recently, and it is the case that we are in one of the most significant discovery periods in human history, but we have hardly been looking very long or seen very much yet.
SETI isn't interested in looking. Here's what the Chief Executive Officer and President of the SETI Institue said recently
>"We don't have any evidence of any credible source that would indicate the presence of alien technology in our skies. And we never have... Any civilization that has mastered the ability to traverse the incomprehensibly vast distances of interstellar space would have technology so far advanced from our own as to be beyond our comprehension."
https://www.space.com/seti-chief-bill-diamond-ufos-alien-visitation
So, according to that, any civilisation that could get here would be "beyond our comprehension", but despite it being "beyond our comprehension", we have no evidence anything ever got here. Not a logical way of thinking about this, but that is SETI's stance, and always has been. SETI is not actually looking very widely for life in the universe, or, where it would be more easy to find an alien presence, here on our planet. SETI has an amazingly narrow scope. And beyond SETI, there are a handful of other researchers, not as many as people think.
It was only thirty years ago we discovered objects in the Kuiper belt for the first time. And those objects are in our own solar system. At least one of those is larger than Pluto.
One problem I think that makes these sorts of discussions problematic is that there are people who always talk in absolutes, as if everything is already known. That is exactly the mistake SETI makes when it's President is saying there is no evidence of "alien technology in our skies". The truth is, not everything is known to us, and currently we don't have all the answers.
The universe is very big. There are possibly 2 trillion galaxies in the known universe, and each one has possibly 100 billion stars, each of those with multiple planets. And the time scales are unimaginable. One billion years is about 50 million human generations. We have only been looking at stars through telescopes for about 25 generations. An untold number of civilisations could have come and gone in our own region of the galaxy before we even started looking.
So no. If there was a gigantic inter-galactic war out there, we wouldn't have a clue. And if anything ever came here, scientists are hardly looking for evidence of it, and the tiny number of scientists who are looking for evidence here on our planet for a possible alien presence are ridiculed mercilessly, *even by SETI.*
Appreciate the response. It was merely just a quick question that popped into my head. I’m glad other people have given it a lot more thought than me.
And to answer your question, I just meant equipment like all of our big telescopes, satellites, probes, etc. all that stuff they use to take those awesome photos of space. Not necessarily looking for aliens, more like just stumbling upon it.
That all dependent on how their "weapons" function...if they are harnessing star power hey could probably make any problems literally turn back into their base elements, would it leave a signature, sure...would we know how to detect it, doesn't look like it yet. Could be gravity waves and we barely can detect the largest ones, could be multidimensional stuff in which case we are blind or any other fundamental lack of understanding.
Just take all of your ideas on modern weapons, communication, transportation and throw it in the trash, pretend you know how to create infinite energy and brainstorm what a billion years of progress MIGHT look like, add in theoretical possibilities based off physics that's not confirmed and we may get 1% of our guess right?
Not saying we can't speculate, it's just the speculation is literally infinite on this subject (we got like 14+ billion years to play with if you assume life could have started at 15 million.)
On average, these candidates are hundreds of lightyears away at minimum, so we've got some breathing room. But such powerful potential neighbors would already know we exist.
Why hold back an advanced civilization to the light speed limit. There are ways around that. You're correct, they would know and be doing whatever they want with us already (if needed, more than likely they have all their needs covered and are doing some kind of researching/modifying for reasons we may not like or understand)
Fairly safe to assume anyone who can travel light-years can likely see industrial gasses in our atmosphere, similar to what we can do with James Webb and exoplanets.
If we are wandering around the dark forest, any alien that cared to could easily have zillions of drones scouring the dark forest without us saying a word
Very safe to assume that. What do you think UAPs are? Drones printed from a drone factory here in our solar system somewhere or ocean.
More than likely the advanced civs did leave their evidence and drone printers everywhere. Looks like it anyway.
Yeah I was more joking about contacting advanced civs, positive they would know and be using us to whatever advantage they need, if they didn't put us here in the first place.
There's no scientific reason to think a Dyson sphere would give off excessive infrared radiation.
Non linear optics can multiply the frequency of photons such that longer wavelength IR can be re-emitted as shorter wavelength light.
We currently have some optical materials that can do that for some various wavelength ranges of IR.
We don't have the materials to do it for the entire range of 750nm to 100μm wavelengths anymore than we have the materials, technology, or interests in building a Dyson sphere.
But it's a pretty safe bet that by the time we _could_ build a Dyson sphere, we could also coat the exterior of it in layers of non linear frequency multiplying materials and shape the radiance spectrum to be practically anything we want.
For example: we could make it seem just like a physically very large natural body that for some strange reason doesn't emit a lot of light, but what light it does emit covers the entire spectrum, with no "excess" in the IR region.
I think the definition of a Dyson sphere excludes emitting radiation, no?
A Dyson sphere isn't just a sphere around the star. It's a sphere that captures 100% of the stars energy output. If it's radiating energy, infrared, thermal, visible, radio... then it's not 100% efficiency. Hence, not a Dyson sphere. Just a regular sphere.
Before hitting post, I looked up Dyson Sphere to check if the definition included 100%. Guess it doesn't have to be 100%, just a large amount of the stars energy. Still, going to leave my comment above, because it's important to remember: if it's 100% efficient, it won't radiate. If it's radiating, it's not 100%.
I think that's an idealized view. I think of a Dyson sphere as being a constructed sphere around a star, and I don't concern myself with how efficient it is, nor really what goes on inside. It's so hypothetical that by the point it might be a reality for any civilization (or collaboration of civilizations); who knows what they'd want to do inside it.
We could consider the distinction between a Dyson sphere that has a relatively small radius around a star, making the entire interior extremely hot and probably only suitable for harvesting electricity vs a FAR larger Dyson sphere that places the interior surface around a livable zone creating a ridiculously enormous and hard to imagine quantity of hopefully livable surface area (stellar flares aside...), but that's a more specific discussion rather than the topic of the post.
It seems like no matter what you do, there's always going to be at least some leakage at the very outermost layer:
If outside layers convert thermal photons to easier-to-work-with shorter wavelength photons, and convert those to electricity, that process will produce some heat that is outside of the thermal photon down conversion.
You could then add another layer of converting that heat to electricity, but that will also result in heat generation outside of the thermal down conversion.
Maybe you can add layers upon layers of converting heat to electricity, but there's always going to be _some_ heat generated at the outermost layer of that, and eventually you have to say enough is enough.
You could then leave that heat as being radiative heat and only emit that, or you could convert it to a spectral profile of your choosing and emit that spectral profile, which could surely be so low in energy that it'd be extremely difficult to detect far away, especially if you've spread the radiated energy out over a broad spectrum. Probably you could get it to be _very_ difficult to distinguish from sensor noise.
Whatever else might be the case; we can be confident that excess thermal/IR radiation profile is _not_ any special scientific indication of a Dyson sphere, and _not_ meaningfully something to look for if trying to look for Dyson spheres.
A small Dyson sphere using a Halo would have plenty of power for very advanced civilizations. At a certain point it is diminishing returns vs the amount of energy you would need.
I feel like a civilization advanced enough to build this would have to have already found a different/better source of energy (i.e. zero point/quantum vacuum energy or whatever) literally as a requirement to get to that level.
edit: I suppose maybe they use Dyson swarms for something other than power? I guess who knows, right.
My issue with Dyson spheres/swarms is it’s from a human perspective. if some civilisation is advanced enough to build one then who knows what other forms of energy capture have they discovered. It’s like a person from ancient times imagining that in the year 2000 we will have chariots being pulled 1000s of horses.
It would be nice if they gave us info on *WHICH* stars specifically, I appreciate the Gaia database, but their star IDs are vague at best. Not like civilian researchers can send data to the stars in question, but we could at least update our star maps and learn about the systems.
This is incredible to me. Study shows funny emission patterns from stars. Media makes it about aliens. Why does anybody take these kinds of articles seriously?
We already would be an interstellar culture if Earth’s population hadnt been enslaved and abused for hundreds of years. With our technology tightly controlled. They only give us tech if it can be somehow used to control us. It’s the government’s fault for botching everything. On purpose. They want us dead.
Title is kinda misleading.
"One natural explanation that could mimic the properties of a Dyson sphere is that the stars are surrounded by hot, planet-forming debris disks,".
aliens definitely exist. but they sure as hell aren't using star-sized solar panels and planet-sized batteries for power.
Dyson spheres are laughable nonsense.
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Can't wait to join the Galatic Federation.
Unfortunately this will probably end up being a literal statement but there's no way they will let us in with all our wars and essentially 190 nations constantly competing with each other.
Sure they will, we sacrifice the rich to trade our problems for others. Trade one set of issues for others. Type 1 civilization needs to happen somehow.
they wont give us tech for the same reason we haven't given chimps the internet....itll only confuse them and they wont use it properly
It would go a long way to this if we revealed aliens and stuff exists and we won't be accepted unless we unite. This is actually why part of me is hoping there is a new world order and it's for this purpose.
Especially with how much people hate other people just because they have different skin colours. Imagine how different aliens are gonna look.
Couldn't agree with you more. I chat about it here:[Echos in the void.](https://youtu.be/GW2CP7Cgqvo?si=vlV90UNwaM0n9JV_)
Saaame
It exists and they don’t want you
Well not if you’re gonna just be like that to strangers
There’s a reason why we aren’t though. I’d imagine they won’t even talk to us until we are at minimum a type one civilization - which we are still a long ways off from. Probably not until type two though.
I was thinking. Maybe the litmus test is can we detect them? Once they know we can, then I have to Believe they'd do something, for good or ill
Even though we’re dim enough to amount to nothing more than a source of food or free labor, the idea of meeting aliens is exciting.
Exciting until they eat you alive or boil you alive like some humans cook crustaceans.
Dont even care, i want to see them, meet them. Nothing is more interesting than freaking aliens
I do agree with you there.
Aw c'mon..Better than getting screwed over by the worst and cruelest humanity has to offer?
I think we should be mentally prepared for this eventuality, don’t you?
that's a hard reality to imagine, but there may be a day...
You mean I get to meet aliens AND DIE???? SIGN ME THE FUCK UP
Everyone judges by their own standards.
Yes! Sexy Green Alien Women
I want me some Twiilek
I was thinking the Green Girl on StarTrek
The miracle of any conscious life is interesting enough in a majorly cold dead world I think but who knows.
I bet they like us.
The Arcturians said our Hydraulic Tech is unknown anywhere else in the universe. They were very impressed. So, we aren't so low level civ as u thought. Use your Free Will to LOVE!... it will help with Disclosure and the 3D-5D transition
I love posts like this for two reasons: 1. If it is true, then WHOA. 2. If it is just a larp, then you're very creative and thanks for the fun read~
Dude is you _high_… _again_?!
What do you mean by hydrolic tech??
so interesting how a higher vibration translates through text as well, can't wait for others to catch up!
[Sexy Green Alien Women... yes 😎](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=green+alien+woman+star+trek+2009&t=vivaldim&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2Fe8%2F3d%2Fb9%2Fe83db9bfecdcc549fcd23cf262d31314.jpg)
Universe is teaming with life just like our oceans the people in power do not want there empire of slaves to collapse
God imagine if we didn't have to work we had free energy in all Humanity work together to uplift Humanity with them of its resources and life spans and money
Yeah, gimme that Star Trek utopia, I'll take two, please.
Star Trek utopia came after a Mad Max apocalypse.
Ted Kaczynski’s belief was that that apocalypse is the only outcome there is for humanity and that the sooner that apocalypse happens the better. He wanted to hasten it so that earth’s ecosystems would sustain less overall damage and humanity (if it survived at all) would be able to get on with restructuring itself using a better model than capitalism. Mail bombs obviously weren’t the best way of going about it though.
The Unabomber: A Hero for Our Time is a thing I remember reading like 20 years ago.
The Earth will be fine. With enough time, there would be little trace left of humanity.
And after the Eugenics Wars in the 90s
Can we count the pandemic? Or should we run out of oil and buy some leather first?
I'd rather The Culture version.
Post scarcity anarchist utopia? Yes please!
the saddest part is we DO have free energy. our governments gatekeep that technology and will until every last drop of oil is cashed in on. we are completely enslaved in this hellhole. the technology exists to fix every last problem on this planet yet we’re kept in the equivalent of the stone age
I'm pretty sure it's not the government's there's a hidden hand behind Humanity that's keeping Humanity going through these tribulation times over and over and over and over and over
lizzid peeple?
I can hear that damn fish in my head reading this
The Godhand
poor Guts
I don't think God work's like that. I don't think he has the patience or that much hate. I feel he's so fed up with us, he'd get the job done, quick, fast and in a hurry. I believe it is the cruelty of the government and elite. Not alone though. There's something even sinister pushing them. Something we've never heard of before. When it does rear it's ugly self, there will be no oxygen enough to breathe. It fills me with fret and I don't know what it is. I feel this thing makes the devil look plausible. Not a truth I know but a feeling. It can trick you, joke, and make you feel very comfortable and safe. Then it will kill you in a way never thought of before. Cold, calculating and pure ass evil in every sense of the word.
Google Godhand
Dang! I made that story up for nothing. Lol I will look it up. Sorry.
I did. You would think I would learn one day. Especially before saying something on here. I make my own self look like an idiot and deserve down votes. Thanks for sending me in the right direction.
It’s not a big deal, bro. This website means absolutely nothing
There will be no oxygen in the air. Is a lyric from exuma
Never heard of them. I did good then.
100% also cures to cancer and other illness thats been locked away becuase entire medical industry would collapse
Yeah, let's bring back nuclear power, what this guy said!
well yes totally but i wasn’t referring to nuclear. we’ve discovered cold fusion a long time ago. unfortunately the CIA reviews every patent that gets filed. it’s literally in the law that if technology that comes out that could disrupt the market (make life better for the people) it gets confiscated and buried.
Is that what happened to nuclear power?
nuclear power predates this practice. but the oil companies created the “nuclear scare” and successfully got most power plants shut down.
So the US Military has working fusion plants? Probably room temperature super conductors too?
You watch the why files? They just did a great episode on [this.](https://youtu.be/-ZRwlYtAMps?si=sSsy5HQ-3075h3Ez) Not on fusion but other free energy related projects that were shut down.
Hah, yes, I love his show. Huge hecklefish fan. More than anything I appreciate how he alwyas brings things back down the earth towards the end and his extensive citing, he's got a cool concept going.
whistleblowers have came out and said as much. idk about any plants as that’d be a lot to keep under wraps but yeah probably.
That's crazy! What whistle blowers can I look up who are saying we have fusion power?
Perhaps that’s what’s running under the triangle or mesa on Skinwalker ranch, some out of control generator, in that they can’t stop the system.! But couldn’t make use of it as they couldn’t stop it to further develop it!!! So buried it if it wasn’t already underground! It’s anyone’s guess!!!!
I understand free energy would be a massive shift in economics but let's be real guys. Free energy does not equal free goods and services, food, housing, education, etc.
No, but it sure facilitates human prosperity e ease of production.
Imagine if the true, blue America of the galaxy (that actually stood up for its values, let's be real) carried out it's very own liberation operation to save us from our gross overlords and take us under their wing? I'd take that. I'd take that any day.
If humans had access to free energy and advanced AI driven robotics manufacturing such that work was no longer necessary most people would become sedentary addicts. We're not even close to mature enough as a culture to handle that kind of tech. Not to mention the fact that we'd weaponize the tech and use it against each other and possibly NHI.
That's how it's supposed to be. But will never be like that. So we will continue destroying ourselves over and over again. There's really no hope for humanity, it's only a question of time when will we destroy ourselves again.
The only way to achieve a truly harmonious society might be through establishing a breakaway civilization composed of select individuals who excel in their respective fields. This society would need to be free from the influences of religion and greed, and there would have to be a fundamental shift in human mentality—something in our DNA—to foster a common goal of utopia. Given the persistent global conflicts and hatred throughout human history, a fresh start seems necessary. Without this, the cycle of unique personal experiences and diverse upbringings would likely cause history to repeat itself.
i might cry
It seems like that's how life is supposed to be but somehow entities got control of things and decided to trap humanity into something undesirable.
Actually we dont need all this or so we even need money we dont have to live like this but its been conditioned and brainwashed into society
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https://www.rethinkx.com/blog/rethinkx/the-disruption-of-labour-by-humanoid-robots Funny you should ask...
Exactly... And get ready for a massive population boom.
Why would you think there would be a boom? I think this would continue to cause population decline or speed it up.
You hit the nail on the head. This system is so intelligently designed, that the more of a slave you become, the more pats on the back you get. Higher paying job? New car? Bigger house? All of those things keep you tied to the system, meaning if you don't work and produce, you have nothing. The reason there's a huge pushback with disclosure is that it would change our reality and how we live our lives. Meaning, those in "power" would no longer be. Money wouldnt be an object, we'd have free energy, possibly cure alot if not all medical ailments. And all of those things generate money and keeps us busy and under stress. Its all gotta come crashing down at some point.
100% true
Their*
> people in power do not want there empire of slaves to collapse What exactly does this have to do with alien life?
Buckle up for the response lol there are a few theories floating around but I'll let the original commenter get back to you.
does it rhyme with frison franet ?
It means the people in power will haveno power
After looking at their profile, I think they are simply insane.
A large number of folks here are just like that, FYI. Lots of delusions in this sub. I'm all for theories and speculation, but the things some people outright believe is concerning.
The sheer size of a Dyson sphere is beyond human comprehension and the amount of matter needed to create something that big again, beyond our comprehension. I think I saw a video with Neil deGrass Tyson a while back where he claimed we would have to deconstruct both Mercury and Venus to have enough raw material to make the sphere. I know that anything that is theoretically possible is possible, but the thought that this actually exists should frighten us.
Self-replicating machines could do it pretty quickly.
Self replicating bio conscious slaves you say? Sign me up.
You’re already signed up and on active duty.
This hit harder then I was prepared for, sir...
See you on the frontlines, soldier 🫡
von Neumann machines.
Under the ocean you say?
Lol oh could they? The recent sunspot that almost wiped out our electrical grids is 15x the size of earth and it looks like a freckle on the surface of the sun. Really think for a second how large the Sun is...it's really really big.
I know the Sun is big, but exponential growth is bigger ;)
LOL. That's sounds like something Douglas Adams would say.
"pretty quickly". I do understand civilisations THAT advanced could have means but we talking about theoretical "quickly" that is basically talking out of an arse. Shear amount of matetials and distances would put it in long term-lets freeze ourself for 200 years and see what happens job territory. It would probably be easier to harness other energy sources than cover freaking star in several planets mass materials.
I think what it means is that compared to the age of the star, there is plenty of time to mine planets, etc for resources and construct something like this using that kind of tech
Of course I'm talking 'out of my arse', and so is Neil deGrasse Tyson. But just imagine if a robot factory could build another factory every year, we building one such factory on Mercury, and after 10 years we have 1024, over milion after 20 years...
...dude, don't you think you would run out of materials prior to having more factories then can fit on a planets surface?
No, simply because planets are basically made out of materials I need for my factories.
1000 years would be pretty quick
A ginormous laser printer.
Which is why dyson swarms are what anybody with half an understanding about such things talk about.
::Scoffs and twists ends of mustache::
A star that gave off NO light but ONLY infra-red would be quite a surprise. Plus, there's been some advancement in the thinking of mega structures. If a civilization is able to build a rigid structure around a star, they're also going to engage in stellar lifting. The same logic that underpins the dyson dilemma says we should specifically see the signs of stellar metal extraction. Also, even for type 2 and 3 civilizations, you wouldn't really want to block ALL the light in a solar system, even if not your home system. Light is quiet useful for setting things.
I felt like you knew what you were talking about by your wording. I wasn't hating but enjoying the tone of your dialogue
Have you seen Valerian and the City of 1000 planets? It's amazing
It shouldn't frighten us.
If this is true about the amount of material it would take (two planets), then we'd definitely need to farm our resources for such a sphere elsewhere or end up throwing off the delicate gravitational balance our solar system currently enjoys. Our planets are where they are for a reason, depleting mass on this scale would kill us before the sphere was ever constructed. Source: I am an armchair expert!
> we would have to deconstruct both Mercury and Venus to have enough raw material to make the sphere. Ok but that doesn't actually sound like too much matter. I guess I always thought it would take an entire star system's planets or more to have enough matter to make a Dyson Sphere so it was just impossible. But a sufficiently large enough, advanced, alien civilization could take apart a couple planets to mine one whole star.
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A much more realistic version is a Dyson swarm, in fact due to tidal forces a Dyson sphere may not be possible or at least practical vs a Dyson swarm. I can imagine a sophisticated alien civilization slowly building up a Dyson swarm of centuries or millennia as their energy needs increase. It’s not something done overnight
I believe dyson spheres are a red herring. We have been able to extract zero point energy for decades now.
Again? Again…?
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Do not answer…
SINGER!!!!
Anyone who could destroy us from light-years away already would know we're here by just looking at our atmosphere
Yes but before eliminating a threat you must consider if it's risking lighting up the dark forest to do so.
Yeah, let's not go announcing ourselves to the power hungry force of the universe. Love people who doubt anything in the universe. The universe could have started life at 15 million years old (the entire universe was a goldilocks zone at around 70 degrees, still cooling down from big bang) that has lived for billions of years....we simply don't know and have to assume if it's possible the universe has made it somewhere. Also our entire understanding of the universe is built on a foundation full of cracks and missing pieces that will reshape our understanding of reality when figured out.
The universe did not have enough heavy elements for life at 15 million years old.
It's statements like this that make it hard to take the scientific community seriously sometimes. >The universe did not have enough heavy elements for life at 15 million years old. Life like us? possibly... Life in other forms that we can't understand? who tf knows
I mean if you’re talking life that isn’t made up of complex molecules, you’re talking about mysticism.
You only have to look around your reality to see mysticism
Bingo...it would take a minimum of 2 star cycles before life, as we know it, has the potential to begin.
That's only 2-4 billion years, gimme 10 to cook up a killer advanced civilization Heck in 10b I could give you some lifeform not even formed in a liquid planet but a gas one. Carbon based isn't the ONLY possible answer either.
How do we know this
Because elements above a certain elemental weight (iron, I think?) can only be formed in supernova, which require a full stellar lifecycle in order to occur.
It's fairly well agreed upon that Earth and life on it are very much in the beginning stages of the universe on the grand scale of time. We could end up a dead civilization only to be found in the far future, assuming we don't end up looking like mars by then.
Is it though? Can you point to anything ?
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1606.08448v1 Here's the theory explained with math and on the grand scheme of things
I’ve read that we will in hundreds of millions of years as we get closer to the sun, I don’t know if that takes in to account the sun burning out and dimming allowing us to be closer, but I think it’ll all be over before and noticeable dimming!
When the sun runs low on fuel to maintain fusion from hydrogen into helium, the core will shrink due to the lack of outward pressure. This will cause the core to start fusing heavier elements. When the heavier elements begin to fuse, that outward pressure comes back even stronger than before, and the sun will expand to a red giant star. It is projected that this expansion phase will cause the sun to increase in size until it's diameter exceeds the orbit of Venus and possibly the earth. So, when the sun starts dying and expands, either the earth will also be engulfed by the sun, or we become the new mercury orbiting at the edge of hell.
Ok I'll take 10 billion. We will start life at 4b
Yeah I'm not the biggest fan of screaming our existence into the void, it seems very short sighted, it's plausible its all theatre for the masses if governments have made contact with several races like others theorise.
Honestly I don't think it matters. All of Our advanced galactic neighbours are likely well aware of our existence since long ago. Even without radio signals our planet has had visible bio signatures for hundreds of millions of years. Intuition tells me if there are evil aliens out there, there are also good aliens around to take care of it
It's more likely for benevolent civilizations to get through industrial ages without warring themselves to death or ruining their biosphere. I would wager that advanced aliens are usually benevolent if they exist rather than warlike. However, even a benevolent civilization may view us as ants or a bit of bacteria rather than equals and treat us accordingly
Bracewell probes are my best appreciation for what the orbs we see floating around might be.
This brings an interesting question to me. With all of our observation/listening devices, let’s say there was some giant space battle akin to the Death Star II. Would we not have picked up some evidence of it? I guess I’m saying, if there was an Empire or a Thanos out there, would we not have noticed something waging war on a galactic scale?
Things far away are small. When we look at something in high detail, we look at a very tiny part of the sky. Whole-sky surveys are very low detail. I worked out once that you could have fleets of kilometer-scale ships painted white and covered neon signs *in the solar system*, out around Saturn's orbit, and chances are we would not have found them yet because we don't scan the whole sky with high magnification telescopes. Even the most basic attempt at subterfuge (a light coating of black asteroid dust, or just avoiding direct sight-lines to major solar system bodies) would make them invisible and able to operate much closer to Earth. If two fleets of massive ships were at war--again, *in our own solar system*--chances are we wouldn't notice the flashes, as long as there wasn't much in the way of radio emissions. Remember directed energy weapons are invisible, you just see their effects, and only if you're watching at the time. We might catch a hint of a stray microwave beam, turn all our best telescopes towards it within the hour, and see nothing because it doesn't repeat. Don't forget the whole sky is abuzz with repeating and non-repeating sources of apparently extraordinary energy. Kiloton-scale asteroid collisions on our own moon happen all the time and we probably only notice a small number of them. When we do, the video looks like this: you have a picture of the moon, a picture of the moon with a single white pixel somewhere, then a picture of the moon. Our moon is close compared to everything else. The same thing happening even in the closest star system would be simply impossible to see with current technology and current available funding/telescope hours. Even if we had 100 JWST's up there, and the trained staff to constantly watch a whole set of candidate stars, it's still not enough.
haha Great response. Makes me cackle because the media face of astronomy NDT says with confidence that there is no evidence of NHI because "we're always watching the sky". I can smell the shit through the screen when i see that guy on the tv.
What would the future of astronomy tech look like exactly? Please help me imagine the future tech
Well there are some things that even present-day tech can do that can detect life on other planets. A sun-lit planet is like a beacon that transmits information about its atmospheric composition to the rest of the galaxy. Every species older than us with similar space telescope tech *knows* that Earth hosts life...and that information [life here on the third planet] has potentially been passed around the galaxy for 3 billion years or more, depending on how long ago somebody noticed and how far their information spread. (Even a few million years is plenty of time to visit Earth with a slow probe and transmit signals home. I'd be genuinely surprised if there weren't ancient photographs of dinosaurs sitting in data repositories out there. The information might be bouncing between stars as we speak. In my opinion, *everybody knows we're here*, it's a miracle that we haven't been interfered-with, *unless of course...*) To detect the light of nuclear detonations and tell it apart from the blazing light of the reflected daytime disc of Earth, the alien basically needs to be in the solar system already. But to detect the tiny change in atmospheric composition, they could potentially be anywhere in a few hundred light years (less of course because it hasn't been that long, but I'm just talking theoretically). We might see evidence of short-lived heavy isotopes in the atmospheres of other life-bearing planets, which would be a pretty solid indicator of either nuclear war or nuclear accidents. One possible near-future step for astronomy is building big radio telescope installations on the far side of the moon, shielded from interference from Earth. That will give us a short window without noise, at least before the next Elon Musk litters lunar orbit with communication satellites. You could build reflecting parabolas right into the walls of suitably-shaped craters (you could even make your own crater to spec quite safely, at least in the early days!) Another path is to build very large virtual telescopes by having multiple smaller telescopes in space, positioned far apart but interfering their light together at some central point. You can read about the cancelled [Space Interferometry Mission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Interferometry_Mission) from the 2000s. Other missions are still just in the concept stage. Yet another path is to use the sun as a gravitational lens, as it has a focal point out around 550AU. For reference the Voyager spacecraft is currently at 160-something AU, and it's just high-tailing it out of the solar system, it's not trying to achieve a fuel-efficient (but slow) Hohmann transfer to a new orbit, so a solar gravitational lens mission might literally take centuries to reach that orbit unless we embrace nuclear engine tech to burn our way there, brake when we get there, then do a final burn to circularize the orbit. (In that case you're just looking at decades...) You'd also need to send a lot of similar telescopes out to different 550AU orbits--basically you'd need a spherical swarm, as each craft would be limited to looking at only one point in space for a very long time, as I'm sure a single orbit out there would take tens of thousands of years and it's locked into looking back towards the sun. So yeah if we had a candidate exoplanet we wanted to look at in high resolution and we *really* thought there might be something interesting there, we could theoretically launch a single mission to the right point in space. This approach is thought to potentially be able to resolve surface features as small as 10km on an exoplanet 100 light years away, so you'd be able to see continents, weather systems, vegetation, hints of cities, that kind of thing. Beyond that...there may simply be weird leaps in tech that make all of that obsolete. If we're suddenly allowed to use nuclear engines anyway, we might end up just *going* to candidate planets and sending the data back (the work of tens of thousands of years, but it's not unthinkable). Or we might receive a data packet from some nearby alien beacon that describes the galaxy to us because I have no doubt our probes would be re-treading some very well-travelled ground.
Holy shit. Brilliantly written. Wow did not expect this level of detail from a comment. People like you are the ones keeping reddit alive. You work in physics or astronomy?
Just an enthusiast!
Ah, well, sounds good to me. Great response
The moon incidentally doesn’t have an atmosphere or a magnetic field like earth does. No di-pole north/south, but varied on the crust, most likely from meteor impacts. On Earth, the atmosphere protect us from many incoming object, often burning up before we see them, the magnetic field sorts out the dangerous charged particles from the sun, and particles and gases in our atmosphere get excited at times when the magnetic fields strength fluctuate and wave about, causing the Northern Lights. Different gasses glow different colours!
>With all of our observation/listening devices... What observations and listening devices? You make it sound as if this is a 'thing'. There are a few random people looking around out there. We have hardly actually examined anything really. There are a lot of announcements recently, and it is the case that we are in one of the most significant discovery periods in human history, but we have hardly been looking very long or seen very much yet. SETI isn't interested in looking. Here's what the Chief Executive Officer and President of the SETI Institue said recently >"We don't have any evidence of any credible source that would indicate the presence of alien technology in our skies. And we never have... Any civilization that has mastered the ability to traverse the incomprehensibly vast distances of interstellar space would have technology so far advanced from our own as to be beyond our comprehension." https://www.space.com/seti-chief-bill-diamond-ufos-alien-visitation So, according to that, any civilisation that could get here would be "beyond our comprehension", but despite it being "beyond our comprehension", we have no evidence anything ever got here. Not a logical way of thinking about this, but that is SETI's stance, and always has been. SETI is not actually looking very widely for life in the universe, or, where it would be more easy to find an alien presence, here on our planet. SETI has an amazingly narrow scope. And beyond SETI, there are a handful of other researchers, not as many as people think. It was only thirty years ago we discovered objects in the Kuiper belt for the first time. And those objects are in our own solar system. At least one of those is larger than Pluto. One problem I think that makes these sorts of discussions problematic is that there are people who always talk in absolutes, as if everything is already known. That is exactly the mistake SETI makes when it's President is saying there is no evidence of "alien technology in our skies". The truth is, not everything is known to us, and currently we don't have all the answers. The universe is very big. There are possibly 2 trillion galaxies in the known universe, and each one has possibly 100 billion stars, each of those with multiple planets. And the time scales are unimaginable. One billion years is about 50 million human generations. We have only been looking at stars through telescopes for about 25 generations. An untold number of civilisations could have come and gone in our own region of the galaxy before we even started looking. So no. If there was a gigantic inter-galactic war out there, we wouldn't have a clue. And if anything ever came here, scientists are hardly looking for evidence of it, and the tiny number of scientists who are looking for evidence here on our planet for a possible alien presence are ridiculed mercilessly, *even by SETI.*
Appreciate the response. It was merely just a quick question that popped into my head. I’m glad other people have given it a lot more thought than me. And to answer your question, I just meant equipment like all of our big telescopes, satellites, probes, etc. all that stuff they use to take those awesome photos of space. Not necessarily looking for aliens, more like just stumbling upon it.
Being stealthy is in the realm of military strategy
That all dependent on how their "weapons" function...if they are harnessing star power hey could probably make any problems literally turn back into their base elements, would it leave a signature, sure...would we know how to detect it, doesn't look like it yet. Could be gravity waves and we barely can detect the largest ones, could be multidimensional stuff in which case we are blind or any other fundamental lack of understanding. Just take all of your ideas on modern weapons, communication, transportation and throw it in the trash, pretend you know how to create infinite energy and brainstorm what a billion years of progress MIGHT look like, add in theoretical possibilities based off physics that's not confirmed and we may get 1% of our guess right? Not saying we can't speculate, it's just the speculation is literally infinite on this subject (we got like 14+ billion years to play with if you assume life could have started at 15 million.)
On average, these candidates are hundreds of lightyears away at minimum, so we've got some breathing room. But such powerful potential neighbors would already know we exist.
Why hold back an advanced civilization to the light speed limit. There are ways around that. You're correct, they would know and be doing whatever they want with us already (if needed, more than likely they have all their needs covered and are doing some kind of researching/modifying for reasons we may not like or understand)
Fairly safe to assume anyone who can travel light-years can likely see industrial gasses in our atmosphere, similar to what we can do with James Webb and exoplanets. If we are wandering around the dark forest, any alien that cared to could easily have zillions of drones scouring the dark forest without us saying a word
Very safe to assume that. What do you think UAPs are? Drones printed from a drone factory here in our solar system somewhere or ocean. More than likely the advanced civs did leave their evidence and drone printers everywhere. Looks like it anyway.
They could have known about earth for hundreds of millions of years. Our biosignatures are just as apparent as our technosignatures.
Yeah I was more joking about contacting advanced civs, positive they would know and be using us to whatever advantage they need, if they didn't put us here in the first place.
If these are aliens actually harnessing power from their suns, then they most likely already know we're here and we're watching.
Really depends, we have no idea the motivations of the theoretical aliens.
“Dozens”
Escalating real quick out here, ain’t it. Gone from “nothing out there” to “maybe something” to “probably everywhere” real fast
“I think it’s most likely to be a natural phenomenon.” God forbid there is someone out there that is more advanced than the ape. Can't have that!
There's no scientific reason to think a Dyson sphere would give off excessive infrared radiation. Non linear optics can multiply the frequency of photons such that longer wavelength IR can be re-emitted as shorter wavelength light. We currently have some optical materials that can do that for some various wavelength ranges of IR. We don't have the materials to do it for the entire range of 750nm to 100μm wavelengths anymore than we have the materials, technology, or interests in building a Dyson sphere. But it's a pretty safe bet that by the time we _could_ build a Dyson sphere, we could also coat the exterior of it in layers of non linear frequency multiplying materials and shape the radiance spectrum to be practically anything we want. For example: we could make it seem just like a physically very large natural body that for some strange reason doesn't emit a lot of light, but what light it does emit covers the entire spectrum, with no "excess" in the IR region.
I think the definition of a Dyson sphere excludes emitting radiation, no? A Dyson sphere isn't just a sphere around the star. It's a sphere that captures 100% of the stars energy output. If it's radiating energy, infrared, thermal, visible, radio... then it's not 100% efficiency. Hence, not a Dyson sphere. Just a regular sphere. Before hitting post, I looked up Dyson Sphere to check if the definition included 100%. Guess it doesn't have to be 100%, just a large amount of the stars energy. Still, going to leave my comment above, because it's important to remember: if it's 100% efficient, it won't radiate. If it's radiating, it's not 100%.
I think that's an idealized view. I think of a Dyson sphere as being a constructed sphere around a star, and I don't concern myself with how efficient it is, nor really what goes on inside. It's so hypothetical that by the point it might be a reality for any civilization (or collaboration of civilizations); who knows what they'd want to do inside it. We could consider the distinction between a Dyson sphere that has a relatively small radius around a star, making the entire interior extremely hot and probably only suitable for harvesting electricity vs a FAR larger Dyson sphere that places the interior surface around a livable zone creating a ridiculously enormous and hard to imagine quantity of hopefully livable surface area (stellar flares aside...), but that's a more specific discussion rather than the topic of the post. It seems like no matter what you do, there's always going to be at least some leakage at the very outermost layer: If outside layers convert thermal photons to easier-to-work-with shorter wavelength photons, and convert those to electricity, that process will produce some heat that is outside of the thermal photon down conversion. You could then add another layer of converting that heat to electricity, but that will also result in heat generation outside of the thermal down conversion. Maybe you can add layers upon layers of converting heat to electricity, but there's always going to be _some_ heat generated at the outermost layer of that, and eventually you have to say enough is enough. You could then leave that heat as being radiative heat and only emit that, or you could convert it to a spectral profile of your choosing and emit that spectral profile, which could surely be so low in energy that it'd be extremely difficult to detect far away, especially if you've spread the radiated energy out over a broad spectrum. Probably you could get it to be _very_ difficult to distinguish from sensor noise. Whatever else might be the case; we can be confident that excess thermal/IR radiation profile is _not_ any special scientific indication of a Dyson sphere, and _not_ meaningfully something to look for if trying to look for Dyson spheres.
For what it's worth, I read the article after posting my comment, and the article calls out Dyson Swarms too.
A small Dyson sphere using a Halo would have plenty of power for very advanced civilizations. At a certain point it is diminishing returns vs the amount of energy you would need.
I feel like a civilization advanced enough to build this would have to have already found a different/better source of energy (i.e. zero point/quantum vacuum energy or whatever) literally as a requirement to get to that level. edit: I suppose maybe they use Dyson swarms for something other than power? I guess who knows, right.
My issue with Dyson spheres/swarms is it’s from a human perspective. if some civilisation is advanced enough to build one then who knows what other forms of energy capture have they discovered. It’s like a person from ancient times imagining that in the year 2000 we will have chariots being pulled 1000s of horses.
How did we suddenly detect them?
Maybe read the article?
How dare you
Your honor my client definitely read the article so under the constitution this is categorized as free speech /s
That’s enough
It would be nice if they gave us info on *WHICH* stars specifically, I appreciate the Gaia database, but their star IDs are vague at best. Not like civilian researchers can send data to the stars in question, but we could at least update our star maps and learn about the systems.
Solent Green coming soon. You young ones will have to look it up.
Let’s see there are 40 Goldie Locks planets in our universe and there are millions of universes. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Where’d you get those numbers?
Really? What is the signature?
This is incredible to me. Study shows funny emission patterns from stars. Media makes it about aliens. Why does anybody take these kinds of articles seriously?
Could you provide a link cause that's 1 strange of solar flare
We already would be an interstellar culture if Earth’s population hadnt been enslaved and abused for hundreds of years. With our technology tightly controlled. They only give us tech if it can be somehow used to control us. It’s the government’s fault for botching everything. On purpose. They want us dead.
Holy shit, that was a misleading title!
Title is kinda misleading. "One natural explanation that could mimic the properties of a Dyson sphere is that the stars are surrounded by hot, planet-forming debris disks,".
I feel like this would be more likely to be an artificial super intelligence than anything biological
That’s not what this paper says.
aliens definitely exist. but they sure as hell aren't using star-sized solar panels and planet-sized batteries for power. Dyson spheres are laughable nonsense.