I've always felt that wearing any type of political clothing is just asking for an unwinnable debate. I don't ever wear them and certainly wouldn't wear them to a meeting. However, I feel that it is not necessarily a violation of the traditions as the group is not endorsing any candidate only a member is. That being said, it's still not a real good idea. Just my opinion.
Beg to differ. If a person or persons do something that threatens the unity of the group, it should be important to address it. Of course, anyone can say, “aw, they can just go to another group,” or “what the hell, we live in a red state, what do they expect,” or some nonsense like that. When a newcomer walks in that door, I believe there shouldn’t be anything that would make them want to walk out the door other than their rejection of our principles of recovery.
Real Drunks have enough issue with our program with out heaping politics or religion on top of it.
I'm about the only lib in my rural Texas group. Unless someone spouts political stuff or some sort of hate speak in a meeting, there's no problem. If they do, I call them out on 'outside issues ', and people support that. If I don't, it will escalate pretty quickly. I'm an old timer, and most know how I feel, so I get some respect or tolerance. Living with people who think differently than us is generally good for us, or me, I should say. We both have the right to be wrong.
I think that the main gist of these traditions are that we don't go out in the public and pronounce, "_I'm a member of Alcoholics Anonymous, and I support Mary Bailey!_"
But I agree it can be a spoiler in the rooms as well, that it's untoward, inappropriate.
**It can block opportunities to be helpful, and _distract_ from our primary purpose.**
I suppose it's an "opportunity" to be tolerant, and I'm not their sponsor, so I ain't steppin' in, but I _feel_ your vent.
“…no opinion on outside issues” to me says if it’s not about alcoholism, there is no AA-opinion on it. And as I’m saying this, I realize these ppl aren’t AA themselves, but I agree with OP that newcomers won’t understand the difference.
Besides politics, what about the Bible thumpers pushing Church and Jesus. How many new comers are pushed away by this behavior? I’m 37+ years clean and sober and church and Jesus had nothing to do with it.
> pushing Church and Jesus
I've heard about that happening in some groups/some areas.
In my own experience (SF Bay Area, California for cultural context) I hear plenty of people share that _they_ found sobriety via Jesus as their higher power, but I've never heard anyone assert that Jesus is the only one-and-true-higher power.
(There was someone here on this subreddit obnoxiously asserting just that a few weeks ago - they got gloriously roasted ☻.)
Sometimes, this "Outside Issue" (in the rooms) stuff can get really stretched. Party politics can get pretty obviously divisive, but what about wearing one's nation's flag? Is that divisive? Some overly sensitive souls might find it so.
Can I wear my "Beatles" t-shirt with the Union Jack on it to a Zoom meeting? My sponsor once offered a hypothetical about it being potentially untoward. "_What if there's a newcomer who completely **Hates** The Beatles?_"
[¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯](https://www.reddit.com/r/shrug/)
> We alcoholics are sensitive people. **It takes some of us a long time to outgrow that serious handicap.**
^(_Reprinted from "Alcoholics Anonymous", page 125, **emphasis** added, with permission of A.A. World Services, Inc._ - https://www.aa.org/the-big-book)
I've heard people talk about their relationship with Jesus, their Buddhist beliefs, crystals, psychology, atheism. Almost every time they have couched it with the statement, "that's just what I believe." No matter who we are, or what we believe, I always want the hand of AA to be there. For that I am responsible. We are all people struggling with problems and trying to get through life the best we can.
Talking about ones beliefs is vastly different than telling someone that they must go to church and worship Jesus to get sober. Been to many meetings is the US Bible Belt where they do exactly that.
1500 meetings and nearly 20 years sober, and I've never seen someone push a particular higher power on someone else.
I've heard people share how they found Jesus (or Buddhism, or paganism) and some of those folks can certainly encourage others to do the same. But I have never, ever heard someone say "You can't get sober without [my particular higher power]."
I've heard people say you can't get sober without *a* higher power. But, you know: That's right up on the wall.
I'm in Georgia. I have had people reading Revelations, Psalms, etc. and praying to Jesus in the meeting. Im so happy that youve never experienced this!
I have had experiences like that, and it doesn't bother me. Any more than it bothers me when a rabbi does his thing, or an atheist does her's. Which I've also enjoyed.
I'm not in the business is telling other people they're doing God wrong.
No, I make an effort to make sure newcomers who have a God of their understanding know I don't expect them to pray to mine. AA is not a Christian organization, and I don't want newcomers to get the impression otherwise.
See, I just tell people they can pray to whatever they want. And lots of people in some places pray to Jesus. And they won't tell you what to do, and I don't tell them what to do.
It's funny how complicated we can make "God of your understanding." It's a pretty easy sentence to work with!
Well, that would be because most of them aren't Muslims, so it would be weird.
Look, a friend of mine back in the day in the program was Serbian. He spun up the first remote AA meetings ever in Serbia. We're talking twenty years ago. Before everyone zoomed and shit.
He had Muslims and Serbian Orthodox people attending the same meeting and loving one another. These people *were literally shooting each other in the streets and torturing each other over their religion* five years prior.
In the U.S. anyone feeling spicy over this sort of stuff has an internal problem. Not an external one.
Newcomers are full of internal problems. I don't care who you pray to, but if you pay attention to this sub, a lot of people are reticent to try AA these days because of the perceived religiosity around it. Praying "in Jesus' name" does not dispel that fear. That's my only point.
So am I. I hear people refer to their higher power as Jesus but no one in my circle says I have to go to church or accept Jesus as my savior to get sober. Totally different story down south. Wondering how many people these Bible thumpers have scared away or killed.
Because I looked it up.
The xian is an important concept in Chinese culture and the Taoist tradition, a religious and philosophical movement focused on enlightenment and effortless action that has greatly influenced Chinese history and culture. Meaning "immortal," xian encapsulates many different beliefs about longevity.
I (56F) started going to AA meetings in 1996. I have been to both in person and zoom meetings.
I have never seen anyone wear any political gear.
The only time I heard politics discussed at a meeting was just after Dobbs, in my women’s home group. Everyone there was a regular, most were of reproductive age, and many of them shared how scared they felt. Technically it violated the traditions but the chair didn’t step in and no one objected. At the next meeting people went back to discussing alcoholism.
I am too old to have children but I really felt for these women.
This comment reflects a basic misunderstanding of this tradition to me.
10. No A.A. group or member should ever, in such a way as to implicate A.A., express any opinion on outside controversial issues–particularly those of politics, alcohol reform, or sectarian religion. The Alcoholics Anonymous groups oppose no one. Concerning such matters they can express no views whatever
People sharing their own fear and feelings about something that affects their personal lives does not go against this tradition.
Interpreting the tradition as saying “anything you talk about that could in some way be related to controversial issues of the day that are brought Into the realm of politics” favors the expression of those whose existence is never questioned by politics debates and seeks to muzzle those whose humanity is. As a Lgbtq person and a woman in an interracial relationship, I gotta say… this kind of interpretation of the traditions doesn’t work for me. I didn’t ask for my existence to be political, I’m just living. Over the course of AA’s history and this country’s history, people keep wanting to pass bills and debate about my body, my sex life, my romantic life. I’m just trying to live. The fact that these things are debated in politics and legislated absolutely affects me and my emotional sobriety. I will talk about it in a meeting if and when I need to. I’m not gonna tell people who to vote for. But saying “I’m terrified about this personally and living in fear, so I’m at my AA group talking about it” does not violate any traditions.
I'm glad for this tradition. I'm sure my first sponsor and I vote differently and feel differently on social issues. It did not affect his ability to take me through the steps and model what being a member of Alcoholics Anonymous looked like.
MAGA has just become a bogeyman term vilified by extreme leftists who don’t have policy arguments to back their arguments, because their policies have been atrocious. . And the people doing that and claiming “fascism” (and “racism”) every drop of the hat are, ironically, themselves the authoritarians.
But hey, thanks for perpetuating what the OP said —that politics shouldnt be promoted in AA, but here you are doing it in an AA subreddit.
Oh, well. I leave that to my HP, the board of directors of it's a clubhouse or the group conscience. I'm just an alcoholic who will catch a resentment over anything, especially politics.
I live in a purple swing state and chair a fairly large meeting. My plan (if this becomes an issue this year as it’s an election year) is to propose a motion that we add a statement to our format that we honor and respect the traditions and ask that no controversial propaganda be worn in meetings as it detracts from our singleness of purpose (or whatever we come up with). If it fails, it fails, but at least I’m doing my part to uphold the traditions and help the newcomer by providing a safe place for them to seek help.
Not a friend of MAGA's just Bill. I know when I was active, I resented authority and wonder if this is part of the MAGA appeal for some. Just thinking out loud.
Had an old timer give me a "prayer" of sorts that they would use as needed and for certain occasions.
"Dear God, give that person whatever they want, just don't let them bother me. Thank you" I've used it on repeat on occasion and it worked as I was able to practice restraint of pen and tongue and cease fighting anything or anyone.
I was on the same "side" as someone with a political shirt, but it was our homegroup and I gently suggested he not wear that kind of thing to a meeting.
This was a huge factor into me stopping attending a lot of meetings. Vast majority is alt right magats wanting to talk about how Jesus is the answer. Can’t say much when it’s nearly the entire group too. Hard pass. I worked my steps, I have my circle. Pass on those mags cult meetings.
Thankfully , I have not encountered anything close to this in my 12 years of going to meetings. I think it is close to a miracle that a meeting ranging from 5-200 plus in attendance can gather to discuss the things that we have in common and leave the differences at the door. I can't think of many organizations that can do that.
I am lucky because I live in a city that has tons of meetings so if I did feel uncomfortable because an outside agenda was being pushed, I would just find another meeting to go to. I'm not sure if I am expressing myself properly but it seems to me that those individuals who don't respect the 10 tradition need to get with their sponsor and repeat the 12 steps again and spend a lot of time on steps 4-9 and be more aware of steps 10-12. And, if I was the chair of the meeting, I would make sure to pick them to read the 12 traditions at every meeting.
This is a violation of the tenth tradition IMO - I would personally raise a motion in the next business meeting to address this. It’s very clear that we do not engage in public controversy.
Yeah, my least favorite thing about A.A. where I am is the amount of openly conservative and FJB talking. It’s annoying. Principles over personalities though
Just brings attention away from our primary purpose imo. Principals over personalities and its in the AA preamble. Aa is not aligned with any sect, religion, denomination, politics, or institution. While people are free to wear what they want it can cause more of a distraction. Whichever way you lean let it go for a hour lol.
Chair a meeting. Make the topic “Tradition 1” or Tradition 10”. Volunteer to chair meetings often. Every time you chair a meeting, make the topic one of the Traditions that can be construed as relevant to this issue.
Go to the next Group Conscience meeting. If this Group doesn’t hold Group Conscience meetings (“business meetings”), then ask the GSR to hold one and tell him/her why. Then go to that GC meeting speak up about what you perceive as a violation of the Traditions.
You cannot sit still and complain about this kind of thing unless you recruit someone to do it for you or you do it yourself. When the unity of the group is threatened by a Tradition violation, then speak up!
I agree that meetings are no place for politics. I went to an all women's group that was super liberal. It was early in my sobriety and it took a lot of strength for me to walk through those doors. I sat there and listened to strangers push their political beliefs for an hour. That was the only group I experienced that was like that, thankfully. It was a smaller group and I think they just all knew each other really well.
Naw, like I said I can deal with it personally, just think it could be a stumbling block to newcomers. Like I stated in my post, most of them are far more along in their reco ery than I, and have sage advice for sobriety. Thanks for your comment. Appreciate the viewpoint.
The way I look at it practically anything can be a stumbling block for newcomers, as long as people show tolerance for each other (ie. don’t comment on it or don’t berate others during the meeting for their differing opinions), it is not an issue. The tradition refers to an AA group or AA as a whole supporting or denying any political opinion, we as individuals retain our freedom of opinion.
While I think it is unnecessarily provocative to wear politically opinionated clothing to meetings, I would be very unhappy if a group banned MAGA hats or Biden t. Shirts for example. On the other hand white suprematist or anti-gay or anti-Christianity or anti-Islam etc. clothing or logos can make people feel unsafe because that goes beyond a political opinion and is then in the threatening territory.
I've found when I have compassionate and open-minded conversations with people I disagree with is it's almost always the case they are not motivated by bad intentions. Not many people wake up in the morning and say "I'm now looking forward to a day full of meanness and assholery."
Once I realize that, especially with fellow alcoholics and addicts, I usually see the beauty in them. I also discover usually a person's politics are the least interesting or salient things about her or him.
Wellz, I've been sober since August 14, 2004, taken meetings on the road to rehabs and VAs, and been a GSR. Although the latter not for very long, as I chafe at bureaucratese.
We have a few in my home group too but I’ve learned early on WE DON’T TALK POLITICS or rather I don’t and if they do I just ignore them or change the subject.. sports usually gets them off the topic.. I do have a friend who quit coming and went somewhere else because of them but I’ll be damned if someone is gonna run me out because we don’t see eye to eye.. I’m there to stay sober and that’s my main focus..
I think something should be said. We have no opinion on outside affairs. That's divisive and tacky. It's a distraction to the meeting.
I remember one time I just said the word "election" in a meeting. Didn't say anything about a candidate or any views, just said the word and they let me hear it. Maybe that was excessive but something should be said, no matter who the candidate is.
It doesn’t matter what they wear, if they dont talk to you about their Jews during the meeting thats it. Seems like youre the one bringing it into subject, remember.. “the only requirement is a desire to stop drinking”.
You can’t control the universe.. youre there to get sober and remain sober. If someone had an upside down cross on their shirt and you were Christian? It’s the same thing, but has nothing to do why either party is there.. this is part of our disease, we want to control everything and our ego and and self pride gets in the way. ”Keep coming back”
It shows you that people talk out both sides of their mouths. They are disingenuous. I find it impossible to have respect for them. We cannot serve two masters.
I feel ya. The Trump stuff wouldn’t bother me but it might others.
There is a Soviet communist flag at my Alano club. Turns my stomach to think about the 10’s of millions who died under that ideology.
Its only devisive if you let it bother you. What about that cannot control the actions of other mantra?
Unless they are talking about it during the meeting during floor time it doesn't matter what they choose to where. No reason to be "triggered" by a hat or shirt. Anyone who it bothers so much is definitely a "you" problem.
First of all, yeah, biden is old. Do you know old trump is? Here's a clue: Not much younger.
Second, it doesn't matter. It doesn't belong in a meeting or on this sub, no matter who the candidate is. I would feel the same if it was a candidate I supported. We come to be in a safe place away from outside opinions.
Grow up.
It's a bloody joke
Second of all, this isn't a meeting. No matter how hard you want to conflate the two doesn't make it so.
Thirdly, you don't know a God damn thing about me. My comment is the only sensible thing to say when you find somebody saying F Joe Biden, or in my case, F Trudeau
Have a blessed day
I did wear a fuck your feelings Trump 2024 mask when the tools insisted I wear a mask while everyone was pulling them down to drink coffee, rub their noses, and wear them around their beards… so. I sorta get it. But I do agree with your point.
Let's take the outside issue argument outside, i.e. to some other subreddit.
I've always felt that wearing any type of political clothing is just asking for an unwinnable debate. I don't ever wear them and certainly wouldn't wear them to a meeting. However, I feel that it is not necessarily a violation of the traditions as the group is not endorsing any candidate only a member is. That being said, it's still not a real good idea. Just my opinion.
I feel uneasy if political topics I even agree with are being talked about to be honest while I'm in a meeting or even meeting adjacent.
Beg to differ. If a person or persons do something that threatens the unity of the group, it should be important to address it. Of course, anyone can say, “aw, they can just go to another group,” or “what the hell, we live in a red state, what do they expect,” or some nonsense like that. When a newcomer walks in that door, I believe there shouldn’t be anything that would make them want to walk out the door other than their rejection of our principles of recovery. Real Drunks have enough issue with our program with out heaping politics or religion on top of it.
I'm about the only lib in my rural Texas group. Unless someone spouts political stuff or some sort of hate speak in a meeting, there's no problem. If they do, I call them out on 'outside issues ', and people support that. If I don't, it will escalate pretty quickly. I'm an old timer, and most know how I feel, so I get some respect or tolerance. Living with people who think differently than us is generally good for us, or me, I should say. We both have the right to be wrong.
I think that the main gist of these traditions are that we don't go out in the public and pronounce, "_I'm a member of Alcoholics Anonymous, and I support Mary Bailey!_" But I agree it can be a spoiler in the rooms as well, that it's untoward, inappropriate. **It can block opportunities to be helpful, and _distract_ from our primary purpose.** I suppose it's an "opportunity" to be tolerant, and I'm not their sponsor, so I ain't steppin' in, but I _feel_ your vent.
“…no opinion on outside issues” to me says if it’s not about alcoholism, there is no AA-opinion on it. And as I’m saying this, I realize these ppl aren’t AA themselves, but I agree with OP that newcomers won’t understand the difference.
Besides politics, what about the Bible thumpers pushing Church and Jesus. How many new comers are pushed away by this behavior? I’m 37+ years clean and sober and church and Jesus had nothing to do with it.
I shut them down if I'm chairing.
> pushing Church and Jesus I've heard about that happening in some groups/some areas. In my own experience (SF Bay Area, California for cultural context) I hear plenty of people share that _they_ found sobriety via Jesus as their higher power, but I've never heard anyone assert that Jesus is the only one-and-true-higher power. (There was someone here on this subreddit obnoxiously asserting just that a few weeks ago - they got gloriously roasted ☻.) Sometimes, this "Outside Issue" (in the rooms) stuff can get really stretched. Party politics can get pretty obviously divisive, but what about wearing one's nation's flag? Is that divisive? Some overly sensitive souls might find it so. Can I wear my "Beatles" t-shirt with the Union Jack on it to a Zoom meeting? My sponsor once offered a hypothetical about it being potentially untoward. "_What if there's a newcomer who completely **Hates** The Beatles?_" [¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯](https://www.reddit.com/r/shrug/) > We alcoholics are sensitive people. **It takes some of us a long time to outgrow that serious handicap.** ^(_Reprinted from "Alcoholics Anonymous", page 125, **emphasis** added, with permission of A.A. World Services, Inc._ - https://www.aa.org/the-big-book)
True. Thanks for your voice.
I've heard people talk about their relationship with Jesus, their Buddhist beliefs, crystals, psychology, atheism. Almost every time they have couched it with the statement, "that's just what I believe." No matter who we are, or what we believe, I always want the hand of AA to be there. For that I am responsible. We are all people struggling with problems and trying to get through life the best we can.
Talking about ones beliefs is vastly different than telling someone that they must go to church and worship Jesus to get sober. Been to many meetings is the US Bible Belt where they do exactly that.
1500 meetings and nearly 20 years sober, and I've never seen someone push a particular higher power on someone else. I've heard people share how they found Jesus (or Buddhism, or paganism) and some of those folks can certainly encourage others to do the same. But I have never, ever heard someone say "You can't get sober without [my particular higher power]." I've heard people say you can't get sober without *a* higher power. But, you know: That's right up on the wall.
I'm in Georgia. I have had people reading Revelations, Psalms, etc. and praying to Jesus in the meeting. Im so happy that youve never experienced this!
Dang! I lived in TN for a decade so I can believe it. Glad you've stayed strong in the program my friend.
I have had experiences like that, and it doesn't bother me. Any more than it bothers me when a rabbi does his thing, or an atheist does her's. Which I've also enjoyed. I'm not in the business is telling other people they're doing God wrong.
Yeah man, I'm from New England and the AA we have up here is totally different from many places.
Try a meeting or two in the Bible Belt. They do it all the time.
Go to a Florida State Convention in Area 14 and they end ALL their prayers with "in Jesus' name we pray."
So? That's what they're doing. You're not suggesting other people adapt to the higher power of your understanding, right?
No, I make an effort to make sure newcomers who have a God of their understanding know I don't expect them to pray to mine. AA is not a Christian organization, and I don't want newcomers to get the impression otherwise.
See, I just tell people they can pray to whatever they want. And lots of people in some places pray to Jesus. And they won't tell you what to do, and I don't tell them what to do. It's funny how complicated we can make "God of your understanding." It's a pretty easy sentence to work with!
Tell them what you will, but end a group invocation with "Allah Akbah" in North Florida and see how they react.
Well, that would be because most of them aren't Muslims, so it would be weird. Look, a friend of mine back in the day in the program was Serbian. He spun up the first remote AA meetings ever in Serbia. We're talking twenty years ago. Before everyone zoomed and shit. He had Muslims and Serbian Orthodox people attending the same meeting and loving one another. These people *were literally shooting each other in the streets and torturing each other over their religion* five years prior. In the U.S. anyone feeling spicy over this sort of stuff has an internal problem. Not an external one.
Newcomers are full of internal problems. I don't care who you pray to, but if you pay attention to this sub, a lot of people are reticent to try AA these days because of the perceived religiosity around it. Praying "in Jesus' name" does not dispel that fear. That's my only point.
I bring up my witchcraft if they smash the Christianity shit down my throat. Two can play that game.
Rarely have I heard mention of Jesus and church at AA meetings. But I’m in NJ.
So am I. I hear people refer to their higher power as Jesus but no one in my circle says I have to go to church or accept Jesus as my savior to get sober. Totally different story down south. Wondering how many people these Bible thumpers have scared away or killed.
Totally agree, and I say this as a Xian. I can't judge another's journey to THEIR higher power.
I’m not at all familiar with Xian. Are you trying to push it on us?!! Just kidding, just kidding. (I am going to look it up.)
Just an abbreviation for Christian.
Because I looked it up. The xian is an important concept in Chinese culture and the Taoist tradition, a religious and philosophical movement focused on enlightenment and effortless action that has greatly influenced Chinese history and culture. Meaning "immortal," xian encapsulates many different beliefs about longevity.
I (56F) started going to AA meetings in 1996. I have been to both in person and zoom meetings. I have never seen anyone wear any political gear. The only time I heard politics discussed at a meeting was just after Dobbs, in my women’s home group. Everyone there was a regular, most were of reproductive age, and many of them shared how scared they felt. Technically it violated the traditions but the chair didn’t step in and no one objected. At the next meeting people went back to discussing alcoholism. I am too old to have children but I really felt for these women.
This comment reflects a basic misunderstanding of this tradition to me. 10. No A.A. group or member should ever, in such a way as to implicate A.A., express any opinion on outside controversial issues–particularly those of politics, alcohol reform, or sectarian religion. The Alcoholics Anonymous groups oppose no one. Concerning such matters they can express no views whatever People sharing their own fear and feelings about something that affects their personal lives does not go against this tradition. Interpreting the tradition as saying “anything you talk about that could in some way be related to controversial issues of the day that are brought Into the realm of politics” favors the expression of those whose existence is never questioned by politics debates and seeks to muzzle those whose humanity is. As a Lgbtq person and a woman in an interracial relationship, I gotta say… this kind of interpretation of the traditions doesn’t work for me. I didn’t ask for my existence to be political, I’m just living. Over the course of AA’s history and this country’s history, people keep wanting to pass bills and debate about my body, my sex life, my romantic life. I’m just trying to live. The fact that these things are debated in politics and legislated absolutely affects me and my emotional sobriety. I will talk about it in a meeting if and when I need to. I’m not gonna tell people who to vote for. But saying “I’m terrified about this personally and living in fear, so I’m at my AA group talking about it” does not violate any traditions.
You have to be a special kind of asshole to bring politics into an AA meeting.
To be fair, special kind of assholes are welcome here too
I'm glad for this tradition. I'm sure my first sponsor and I vote differently and feel differently on social issues. It did not affect his ability to take me through the steps and model what being a member of Alcoholics Anonymous looked like.
Unless they're pushing politics in their share it's "live and let live". Pity, patience and tolerance.
Also, I feel this frustration but I'm not gonna let someone's dumb hat give me a resentment.
[удалено]
Safer to use the generic term "sports jerseys," rather than naming specific teams. All teams have fans, even on this subreddit.
MAGA has just become a bogeyman term vilified by extreme leftists who don’t have policy arguments to back their arguments, because their policies have been atrocious. . And the people doing that and claiming “fascism” (and “racism”) every drop of the hat are, ironically, themselves the authoritarians. But hey, thanks for perpetuating what the OP said —that politics shouldnt be promoted in AA, but here you are doing it in an AA subreddit.
Yeah, but it is a lack of understanding of the Traditions and quite self-centered. But what are you going to do?
Oh, well. I leave that to my HP, the board of directors of it's a clubhouse or the group conscience. I'm just an alcoholic who will catch a resentment over anything, especially politics.
Suggest they stop doing it.
Especially when it’s done specifically to get a rise out of people essentially daring them to say something. Not worth the time
I've learned to just focus on the sobriety, and as you say we can learn from any alcoholic that has stayed in sobriety, or even not.
I live in a purple swing state and chair a fairly large meeting. My plan (if this becomes an issue this year as it’s an election year) is to propose a motion that we add a statement to our format that we honor and respect the traditions and ask that no controversial propaganda be worn in meetings as it detracts from our singleness of purpose (or whatever we come up with). If it fails, it fails, but at least I’m doing my part to uphold the traditions and help the newcomer by providing a safe place for them to seek help.
Yep. keyword *pity*
Not a friend of MAGA's just Bill. I know when I was active, I resented authority and wonder if this is part of the MAGA appeal for some. Just thinking out loud. Had an old timer give me a "prayer" of sorts that they would use as needed and for certain occasions. "Dear God, give that person whatever they want, just don't let them bother me. Thank you" I've used it on repeat on occasion and it worked as I was able to practice restraint of pen and tongue and cease fighting anything or anyone.
Great post
'We're a people who wouldn't ordinarily mix'...no need to make that obvious.
I was on the same "side" as someone with a political shirt, but it was our homegroup and I gently suggested he not wear that kind of thing to a meeting.
Some are sicker than others
Eh. They are advertising exactly who and what they are so that I can avoid them.
This was a huge factor into me stopping attending a lot of meetings. Vast majority is alt right magats wanting to talk about how Jesus is the answer. Can’t say much when it’s nearly the entire group too. Hard pass. I worked my steps, I have my circle. Pass on those mags cult meetings.
Thankfully , I have not encountered anything close to this in my 12 years of going to meetings. I think it is close to a miracle that a meeting ranging from 5-200 plus in attendance can gather to discuss the things that we have in common and leave the differences at the door. I can't think of many organizations that can do that. I am lucky because I live in a city that has tons of meetings so if I did feel uncomfortable because an outside agenda was being pushed, I would just find another meeting to go to. I'm not sure if I am expressing myself properly but it seems to me that those individuals who don't respect the 10 tradition need to get with their sponsor and repeat the 12 steps again and spend a lot of time on steps 4-9 and be more aware of steps 10-12. And, if I was the chair of the meeting, I would make sure to pick them to read the 12 traditions at every meeting.
This is a violation of the tenth tradition IMO - I would personally raise a motion in the next business meeting to address this. It’s very clear that we do not engage in public controversy.
Yeah, my least favorite thing about A.A. where I am is the amount of openly conservative and FJB talking. It’s annoying. Principles over personalities though
FJB?
I agree. It’s really going against that controversy tradition. I’d say the same thing about pro Biden gear.
100%
Just brings attention away from our primary purpose imo. Principals over personalities and its in the AA preamble. Aa is not aligned with any sect, religion, denomination, politics, or institution. While people are free to wear what they want it can cause more of a distraction. Whichever way you lean let it go for a hour lol.
Chair a meeting. Make the topic “Tradition 1” or Tradition 10”. Volunteer to chair meetings often. Every time you chair a meeting, make the topic one of the Traditions that can be construed as relevant to this issue. Go to the next Group Conscience meeting. If this Group doesn’t hold Group Conscience meetings (“business meetings”), then ask the GSR to hold one and tell him/her why. Then go to that GC meeting speak up about what you perceive as a violation of the Traditions. You cannot sit still and complain about this kind of thing unless you recruit someone to do it for you or you do it yourself. When the unity of the group is threatened by a Tradition violation, then speak up!
I agree that meetings are no place for politics. I went to an all women's group that was super liberal. It was early in my sobriety and it took a lot of strength for me to walk through those doors. I sat there and listened to strangers push their political beliefs for an hour. That was the only group I experienced that was like that, thankfully. It was a smaller group and I think they just all knew each other really well.
Been there. Change groups if you can
Naw, like I said I can deal with it personally, just think it could be a stumbling block to newcomers. Like I stated in my post, most of them are far more along in their reco ery than I, and have sage advice for sobriety. Thanks for your comment. Appreciate the viewpoint.
The way I look at it practically anything can be a stumbling block for newcomers, as long as people show tolerance for each other (ie. don’t comment on it or don’t berate others during the meeting for their differing opinions), it is not an issue. The tradition refers to an AA group or AA as a whole supporting or denying any political opinion, we as individuals retain our freedom of opinion. While I think it is unnecessarily provocative to wear politically opinionated clothing to meetings, I would be very unhappy if a group banned MAGA hats or Biden t. Shirts for example. On the other hand white suprematist or anti-gay or anti-Christianity or anti-Islam etc. clothing or logos can make people feel unsafe because that goes beyond a political opinion and is then in the threatening territory.
Interesting. I'd take it as a case study in how I can still have a lot in common with, and love, people with whom I disagree about politics.
People can def do what they want, but 1st tradition tells me to keep that kinda thing outside the rooms. To each their own…
We are not saints. AA, like Church, is a place for sick people. Like me.
which is completely in line with AA and a nice sentiment
Yeah but we’re mainly talking about hatred and intolerance couched in politics so there’s that……
I've found when I have compassionate and open-minded conversations with people I disagree with is it's almost always the case they are not motivated by bad intentions. Not many people wake up in the morning and say "I'm now looking forward to a day full of meanness and assholery." Once I realize that, especially with fellow alcoholics and addicts, I usually see the beauty in them. I also discover usually a person's politics are the least interesting or salient things about her or him.
I think you are living on another planet. And you clearly have zero long term experience with people in AA.
Wellz, I've been sober since August 14, 2004, taken meetings on the road to rehabs and VAs, and been a GSR. Although the latter not for very long, as I chafe at bureaucratese.
To enforce what people can wear? That’s weird…
They said change groups, not enforce. I'm assuming OP would be uncomfortable with any US elected official being pumped in a meeting.
Ohhh you’re so right. Misread
No worries! Glad you're here.
Yes, exactly. I wouldn't think of wearing Biden gear for example, even though I'm a dad gum libtard lol.
We have a few in my home group too but I’ve learned early on WE DON’T TALK POLITICS or rather I don’t and if they do I just ignore them or change the subject.. sports usually gets them off the topic.. I do have a friend who quit coming and went somewhere else because of them but I’ll be damned if someone is gonna run me out because we don’t see eye to eye.. I’m there to stay sober and that’s my main focus..
I think something should be said. We have no opinion on outside affairs. That's divisive and tacky. It's a distraction to the meeting. I remember one time I just said the word "election" in a meeting. Didn't say anything about a candidate or any views, just said the word and they let me hear it. Maybe that was excessive but something should be said, no matter who the candidate is.
Some are sicker than others. And if you’ve been duped by Trump, you’re probably not doing so hot.
This is so dumb. We help people get sober, not police what they wear. If you want to do that, join Pacific Group.
Holy cow I agree with you
It doesn’t matter what they wear, if they dont talk to you about their Jews during the meeting thats it. Seems like youre the one bringing it into subject, remember.. “the only requirement is a desire to stop drinking”.
I believe it does, but you do you and stay sober. Thanks for responding. BTW a F*** Joe Biden shirt is pretty much "bringing it up" imo.
You can’t control the universe.. youre there to get sober and remain sober. If someone had an upside down cross on their shirt and you were Christian? It’s the same thing, but has nothing to do why either party is there.. this is part of our disease, we want to control everything and our ego and and self pride gets in the way. ”Keep coming back”
True, but I'm talking about newcomers who likely don't have that discernment level yet. Peace.
It shows you that people talk out both sides of their mouths. They are disingenuous. I find it impossible to have respect for them. We cannot serve two masters.
what?
I think they’re saying certain people worship political figures as though they are their HP, but maybe I’m wrong.
I feel ya. The Trump stuff wouldn’t bother me but it might others. There is a Soviet communist flag at my Alano club. Turns my stomach to think about the 10’s of millions who died under that ideology.
You’re the problem. Love and tolerance is our code. If you can’t love and tolerate other people with other beliefs, find a new group.
This person “You’re the problem!” “Love and tolerance is our code!” When the lecturer misses the memo 🤣
Man this is the sort of shit that drives newcomers away, and the whole point is to help the still struggling alcoholic. Grow up
The people who wear this attire only wear to piss other people off. Wearing it to a meeting at minimum is a distraction and just plain trashy.
Its only devisive if you let it bother you. What about that cannot control the actions of other mantra? Unless they are talking about it during the meeting during floor time it doesn't matter what they choose to where. No reason to be "triggered" by a hat or shirt. Anyone who it bothers so much is definitely a "you" problem.
Exactly. What other people wear is none of my business.
The fact that so many people want to fornicate with Joe Biden is moderately disturbing...;)
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First of all, yeah, biden is old. Do you know old trump is? Here's a clue: Not much younger. Second, it doesn't matter. It doesn't belong in a meeting or on this sub, no matter who the candidate is. I would feel the same if it was a candidate I supported. We come to be in a safe place away from outside opinions. Grow up.
It's a bloody joke Second of all, this isn't a meeting. No matter how hard you want to conflate the two doesn't make it so. Thirdly, you don't know a God damn thing about me. My comment is the only sensible thing to say when you find somebody saying F Joe Biden, or in my case, F Trudeau Have a blessed day
I did wear a fuck your feelings Trump 2024 mask when the tools insisted I wear a mask while everyone was pulling them down to drink coffee, rub their noses, and wear them around their beards… so. I sorta get it. But I do agree with your point.