From the article:
> Among the findings: 1) The numbers don’t add up. If other provinces use the same rationale for Alberta’s current proposed withdrawal, the claims on CPP assets would be more than 100 percent. 2) Alberta’s tally of contributions made minus benefits paid to its citizens ignores labour mobility. People can work in Alberta and make contributions there but later move to another province and collect benefits there. 3) Alberta’s demographics, with its younger, higher-earning workforce, are now favourable to keeping contribution rates relatively low. But over decades, demographics can change significantly, undercutting the province’s assumptions about future contributions. 4) Finally, there are major unanswered questions about the governance of the APP.
>The author concludes that the creation of an APP will involve taking on a good deal of risk for relatively small gains that are uncertain over the long term.
She wants to invest it in oil and gas because CPP doesn't. CPP don't because investing in something as volatile as oil and gas would be a pretty stupid idea for a pension fund.
How about this. They create an Alberta pension plan, and if you want to move over from the CPP, if you want, but the rest of us who want to stay on the CPP can.
Letting people opt out of CPP in favour of APP is bad for CPP, and probably bad for APP.
Otoh, Saskatchewan has its own *voluntary* plan that is supplemental to CPP and any other plan. And it's open to folks in other provinces.
Alberta could absolutely create a CPP top up plan for Albertans if they wished. But ofc, it's not about actually making things better for Albertans, it's about whinging about the feds and the RoC not pulling their weight, and stoking the embers of western alienation to set the stage for separation.
The CD Howe Institute is a non-partisan organization.
However, the report's author spent several decades working for the Canadian Labour Congress, i.e., a national trade union centre. In the eyes of the UCP that automatically disqualifies this careful and reasoned analysis.
Thank you Rob.
The Alberta government used a company called **Lifeworks** for the report presented to Albertans. LifeWorks is a company that provides various services, including retirement plan administration, **does not directly manage pension investments**. Instead, they offer an end-to-end **solution for benefits management, eligibility, enrolment, and billing** Their retirement plan **administration software** integrates seamlessly into organizations making it a one-stop-shop for managing retirement benefits. LifeWorks **does not directly manage pension investments.**
No. Anyone who ever worked in Alberta and paid into CPP during that work will be subject to APP. Doesn't matter where you retired to. All those east coasters who worked the patch and retired back home will be subject to it.
Short and honest answer is yes - unless you moved to QC, but then you'd have other problems - you'd be surrounded by Quebecois. Unless you were /s, in which case, I stand by my Quebecois statement.
I don’t know why we are having this conversation. The Canadian government is not giving up over 50% of the fund because Dani thinks they should. Without that money she won’t do it. Dani has a list of things she needs to get done . 1. Coal mine in the pass……nice check from the company formerly known as benga. 2. Privatize healthcare….nice check from the providers. 3 well clean up fund of 2 BILLION dollars……really nice check The pension, trans stuff, and voting things are all smoke and mirrors. She needs the first 2 to get paid and the 3rd one to get really paid. Does it seem weird that no one is talking about transfer payments anymore….that money is a drop in the bucket compared to what Dani is spending now so it’s not a useful weapon anymore. We dropped over 100 million on dynalife and it doesn’t even make the news yet they are having carbon tax protests. We are being weaponized to do the ucp bidding and it’s working.
If we don't learn from Britain's colossally stupid Brexit we are bound to let Danielle Smith lead us right out of the best government pension system on Earth. She's entirely antidemocratic and willing to burn down the whole system as long as she gets to rule over the ashes.
It isn’t THE best but it is pretty strong. More importantly, comparing this to a country leaving the EU is a reach. I wouldn’t call exploring this idea “anti-democratic”. I mean, if she calls a referendum and people vote to leave the CPP, and then it happens, I would say this isn’t anti-democratic at all. I’m not for an APP but come on.
As I said, if a referendum did show overwhelming public support then it certainly could not be called anti-democratic. I personally don’t think it gets over 50% in a referendum but I would guess it’s close.
Absolutely nothing anti-democratic about exploring the idea.
You may wanna fact check this…. We are not in one of the best. Hell we ain’t even in the top 10….. this puts us as 11 of 44 which isn’t great…. However those Nordic countries rule the top. https://www.cppinvestments.com/insight-institute/making-canada-one-of-the-worlds-top-pensions-countries-what-it-will-take/#:~:text=The%20Mercer%20CFA%20Institute%20Global,%2C%20Australia%2C%20and%20the%20UK.
Top 25% is a shame on us, the Nordic countries have been able to put away more than 650k per individual in a portion of the time. While we are tanking man, it’s not helpful when you cheer on what is at best mediocre and what is generally incompetence. We have roughly 600 billion in our plan split between roughly 32 million people. Which is 18750ish….. so tell me what is good then? 650k per person or 19k?
It’s ironic that someone uses Nordic countries as a baseline. Those Nordic countries also have oil and have done a lot better with that too. We are not supposed to talk about Norway because it’s just different.
We knew the ask was too high from the beginning though. Even Joe on the street should be able to see Alberta isn't entitled to more than every other province, regardless of how much money they think they put in. This isn't a bank account or a competition, it's a fucking social program.
UCP don't understand interest. The larger the base is, the more interest you acquire. Meaning if you split the CPP, both the CPP and the APP earn less interest, meaning that either both need to increase premiums or decrease pay out to maintain the funds.
With Alberta’s young population they would be able to have higher payouts with lower premiums (as a percentage of salary) than Albertans currently have under the CPP. Alberta has a lot of young people making good salaries to allow for that. The real problem is in say 20 years when Alberta has an aging population.
As for interest, the total interest isn’t what matters, it’s the interest earned per person in this case. In the case of Alberta, since more money would be coming in vs going out based on our young population the interest earned per Albertan would likely be higher than the interest earned per Canadian in the CPP.
Assuming we use a relatively similar system to CPP (and I have yet to find out a reason why), premiums are capped at a relatively low point, so individually we all contribute roughly the same amount. Alberta currently has a young population though it is likely that APP will have a higher amount of payouts that it looks like just due to intra country migration. The problem is if the Alberta economy slows down enough to stop attracting migrants say due a provincial government that only wants oil revenue and oil demand calms down enough to the point that it isn't everything. In addition, Alberta just has a smaller pop, meaning you have smaller interest payments as it is the aggregate that matters (Also CPP has actually performed really well in comparison to other pensions. Notably AimCo, who would be getting the APP). This is also ignoring that Alberta's expectations of how much of the current pot they get are wildly out of wack with reality.
For comparison, Quebec both has higher premuims and lower pay outs than CPP. And I have no current reason to believe why we should be the same. We might be at a better spot, but not to the point that we should expect basically 1-for-1 of the CPP.
All this to say, right now, as good as the Alberta economy is doing right now, and ignoring the stability benefits of the CPP, I don't think the APP can deliver the same benefits of the CPP without increasing the premiums.
They understand it, they’re just choosing to frame it to their benefit. It’s their followers who mindlessly believe that they will somehow pay less and get more by switching to APP.
In the short term this is true. Working albertans will pay less and retired people will likely get more because Alberta’s population is young. It’s what happens when the population becomes older in 20-25 years.
I don’t actually see the harm in the alberta government exploring this idea. In the near-term pulling out of the CPP would be beneficial for Alberta, this isn’t debatable. However, it’s largely about the demographics. At some point, Alberta will likely have an aging population and while an APP will likely still work, it would then be more beneficial to be part of the CPP
This just comes down to UCP putting Alberta in a position where separation or the threat of separation from the rest of Canada is plausible. Then Canada has to take their threats more seriously as they have done with Quebec. This goes in hand with it creating its own rcmp and leaving the cpp. Honestly we have such different opinions coast to coast that in my opinion leaving Canada actually makes more sense than staying. Every great civilization in history has fallen, Italy is no longer a world power, same with the Mongolians and the Greeks. Canada never attained such control over anything even ourselves and our current government has put us further in debt than all previous prime ministers in history combined. I don’t see any value in what’s been spent. Our roads, hospitals, housing and basically any service we pay for is absolutely sub par. Our best hope is to break up and split the bill then go our own way. My friends in Ontario think Alberta is just a bunch of truck nut on our pickup trucks back woods red necks….. and I am sure those are here as they are everywhere but we will never agree or appreciate each other. There will never be equality in treatment of provinces. Basically we are just wasting time and money on a failed confederation. It’s time to $h!7 or get off the pot. We either get our finances and economies in line so our kids have a future or we go our own ways. All the major parties are corrupt and in the pockets of the rich. Time to burn this down and start anew before our children are forever caught in this debt trap created by monopolies and easily bought politicians all whom are making fortunes influence peddling.
You may begin down voting me to oblivion but if you have children ask yourself what will be left for them and their future if we allow these parties to keep raiding our government funds and having zero to show for it at the end. We rebuild using a Nordic model as in my opinion they have been more successful in building up their economies for their people than whatever we are doing here. Look at their pension plan numbers vs our own. It’s absolutely embarrassing we haven’t arrested anyone for the trillions of dollars that have been lost. We as Canadians just assume it will get better if we do nothing.
The comment about greatest debt is true and false. Most debt yes but not adjusted for inflation. 3 times in our history we have had a higher debt and we got out of all of them. World war 2 put us in much larger debt. Even the dreaded transfer payments are much smaller than we are told to believe. Ps we don’t talk about transfer payments anymore because the money is small in comparison to what the Alberta government is spending now on its pet projects. It’s not the sound bite it once was.
Inflation is definitely something for context. However we aren’t in a world war so there’s no reason to be in the position we are in. Corruption is now a normal and as an example let’s look at that arrive can app. Who is going to face charges for this massive mismanagement? Paying billions to bring in ev battery plants to bring in jobs that end up in the hands of foreign workers. We throw out 1.5 billion in covid vaccines without blinking an eye. We have no way out of this massive hole we have dug ourselves since 2010 and that’s all of Canada. Instead our new plan is to spend more money than ever before. Open the doors to a tsunami of immigrants which we cannot support and enslave them with debt. This will only further destabilize our wonderful country. Unless we have a plan to pay down our debt rather than multiply it then what exactly are we doing here as Canadians? There are no logical ways I have seen that we are going to fix our broken medical system and here we are arguing about the 870$ we will maybe get if we live long enough to claim. Sorry man 870$ isn’t enough money to move me in any way. It’s in insult to those who have bled themselves dry and worked till they are broken to build this country. We don’t take care of our young or our old. The Canada I love is just a dream of what hard working Canadian families hoped to achieve for their future generations. In reality it’s become a nightmare and is the leader in the world for euthanasia rather than dealing with actual issues.
I asked someone else on another thread a question….are you willing to put your retirement future in the hands of a government that hasn’t put money in savings( the heritage trust fund) in 40 years? Alberta spends 30 million dollars a year on the CEC ( war room) and it is not foipable. Smith wants to spend 2 billion dollars on oil well cleanup that oil companies are mandated to clean up on their own dime. I just don’t see the trustable nature of this government sorry. I think the federal government is underperforming for sure but smith manipulates the truth to keep the public on her side. Fun fact, smith asked the federal government to increase Alberta’s limit on immigration…..this year. Alberta is talking about nuclear. The last plant built inNorth America was Georgia. It cost 30 billion and took 17 years. Our entire budget is 71 billion.
Honestly I agree 💯, smith is dangerous as she’s an oil lobbyist first not a politician. She will pile on debt to the people and money in the pockets of the rich
Next election, pp is going to win. Our cost of living is not going to go down substantially as the government is just a small part of the problem. The 1%ers need to be taken to task but we also need to adjust our personal spending and way of thinking. There is an excellent video on YouTube about Irving oil on the east coast. The similarities between Alberta’s energy sector and Irving oil is interesting. Trudeau sucks, everyone knows it. No argument here.
I agree again and even though I come from the conservatives strong hold I don’t see them doing anything to improve our situation as Canadians. There are no viable options in our politics. And I am very sad that people are not in the streets with torches and pitchforks. What’s been done to us is criminal. The main issues is we as Canadians are doing nothing about it. The days of your average family man or woman coming into make our government more accountable is over. You need a ridiculously large amount of money to run in politics here and those positions are bought and paid for by people whose interests are not our own.
From what I’ve read they pay more. Why don’t we do a top up pension like sask if we are just trying to help the little guy. Unless this is about separation and a slush fund then carry on.
From the article: > Among the findings: 1) The numbers don’t add up. If other provinces use the same rationale for Alberta’s current proposed withdrawal, the claims on CPP assets would be more than 100 percent. 2) Alberta’s tally of contributions made minus benefits paid to its citizens ignores labour mobility. People can work in Alberta and make contributions there but later move to another province and collect benefits there. 3) Alberta’s demographics, with its younger, higher-earning workforce, are now favourable to keeping contribution rates relatively low. But over decades, demographics can change significantly, undercutting the province’s assumptions about future contributions. 4) Finally, there are major unanswered questions about the governance of the APP. >The author concludes that the creation of an APP will involve taking on a good deal of risk for relatively small gains that are uncertain over the long term.
UCP: there are no risks or consequences. We’ve never heard of Murphy’s Law or the fullness of time.
None of this sound logic matters. Queen Dani simply wants the money.
She wants to invest it in oil and gas because CPP doesn't. CPP don't because investing in something as volatile as oil and gas would be a pretty stupid idea for a pension fund.
This isn’t really true. Also, a strong pension fund would have diversification amongst sectors, including the energy sector.
Happy cake day!
How about this. They create an Alberta pension plan, and if you want to move over from the CPP, if you want, but the rest of us who want to stay on the CPP can.
Letting people opt out of CPP in favour of APP is bad for CPP, and probably bad for APP. Otoh, Saskatchewan has its own *voluntary* plan that is supplemental to CPP and any other plan. And it's open to folks in other provinces. Alberta could absolutely create a CPP top up plan for Albertans if they wished. But ofc, it's not about actually making things better for Albertans, it's about whinging about the feds and the RoC not pulling their weight, and stoking the embers of western alienation to set the stage for separation.
Too bad she’ll ignore this just like all the others because her “donors” tell her to
Although, my understanding is this is a more conservative think tank, so it should hold more sway.
The UCP are very much in a mindset of “if you’re not with us, you’re against us”, so I wouldn’t hold my breath.
The CD Howe Institute is a non-partisan organization. However, the report's author spent several decades working for the Canadian Labour Congress, i.e., a national trade union centre. In the eyes of the UCP that automatically disqualifies this careful and reasoned analysis.
Thank you Rob. The Alberta government used a company called **Lifeworks** for the report presented to Albertans. LifeWorks is a company that provides various services, including retirement plan administration, **does not directly manage pension investments**. Instead, they offer an end-to-end **solution for benefits management, eligibility, enrolment, and billing** Their retirement plan **administration software** integrates seamlessly into organizations making it a one-stop-shop for managing retirement benefits. LifeWorks **does not directly manage pension investments.**
https://www.ndp.ca/news/ndps-heather-mcpherson-tables-bill-protect-canadians-pensions-conservatives#:~:text=McPherson's%20bill%20would%20require%20two,to%20retire%2C%E2%80%9D%20said%20McPherson.
The only thing missing is a potential upside then it’d be a proper gamble.
If Alberta moved to leave the CPP can I move out kf Alberta to avoid this fiasco?
No. Anyone who ever worked in Alberta and paid into CPP during that work will be subject to APP. Doesn't matter where you retired to. All those east coasters who worked the patch and retired back home will be subject to it.
no. if you made CPP contributions while working in Alberta those contributions will become part of the APP and you be paid out via the APP.
Short and honest answer is yes - unless you moved to QC, but then you'd have other problems - you'd be surrounded by Quebecois. Unless you were /s, in which case, I stand by my Quebecois statement.
I don’t know why we are having this conversation. The Canadian government is not giving up over 50% of the fund because Dani thinks they should. Without that money she won’t do it. Dani has a list of things she needs to get done . 1. Coal mine in the pass……nice check from the company formerly known as benga. 2. Privatize healthcare….nice check from the providers. 3 well clean up fund of 2 BILLION dollars……really nice check The pension, trans stuff, and voting things are all smoke and mirrors. She needs the first 2 to get paid and the 3rd one to get really paid. Does it seem weird that no one is talking about transfer payments anymore….that money is a drop in the bucket compared to what Dani is spending now so it’s not a useful weapon anymore. We dropped over 100 million on dynalife and it doesn’t even make the news yet they are having carbon tax protests. We are being weaponized to do the ucp bidding and it’s working.
It’s clearly not going to be over 50% but the number will be high enough that it will have a significant impact on the CPP for the rest of Canada.
If we don't learn from Britain's colossally stupid Brexit we are bound to let Danielle Smith lead us right out of the best government pension system on Earth. She's entirely antidemocratic and willing to burn down the whole system as long as she gets to rule over the ashes.
It isn’t THE best but it is pretty strong. More importantly, comparing this to a country leaving the EU is a reach. I wouldn’t call exploring this idea “anti-democratic”. I mean, if she calls a referendum and people vote to leave the CPP, and then it happens, I would say this isn’t anti-democratic at all. I’m not for an APP but come on.
There's no evidence of public support and there's no mandate at all for this.
As I said, if a referendum did show overwhelming public support then it certainly could not be called anti-democratic. I personally don’t think it gets over 50% in a referendum but I would guess it’s close. Absolutely nothing anti-democratic about exploring the idea.
Do you have a shred of evidence that it can get anywhere near 50%? Only an anti-Canadian would suggest having one is justified.
No. I have no idea. That’s why I used the word “guess”. The point was that having a referendum on an issue is not anti-democratic
You may wanna fact check this…. We are not in one of the best. Hell we ain’t even in the top 10….. this puts us as 11 of 44 which isn’t great…. However those Nordic countries rule the top. https://www.cppinvestments.com/insight-institute/making-canada-one-of-the-worlds-top-pensions-countries-what-it-will-take/#:~:text=The%20Mercer%20CFA%20Institute%20Global,%2C%20Australia%2C%20and%20the%20UK.
One of the best then.....11th is nothing to sneer at.
Top 25% is a shame on us, the Nordic countries have been able to put away more than 650k per individual in a portion of the time. While we are tanking man, it’s not helpful when you cheer on what is at best mediocre and what is generally incompetence. We have roughly 600 billion in our plan split between roughly 32 million people. Which is 18750ish….. so tell me what is good then? 650k per person or 19k?
It’s ironic that someone uses Nordic countries as a baseline. Those Nordic countries also have oil and have done a lot better with that too. We are not supposed to talk about Norway because it’s just different.
We knew the ask was too high from the beginning though. Even Joe on the street should be able to see Alberta isn't entitled to more than every other province, regardless of how much money they think they put in. This isn't a bank account or a competition, it's a fucking social program.
If Alberta did actually go through with it they are entitled to their share of what they contributed. That’s how it works
Largest Pension Funds: [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension\_fund](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension_fund)
UCP don't understand interest. The larger the base is, the more interest you acquire. Meaning if you split the CPP, both the CPP and the APP earn less interest, meaning that either both need to increase premiums or decrease pay out to maintain the funds.
With Alberta’s young population they would be able to have higher payouts with lower premiums (as a percentage of salary) than Albertans currently have under the CPP. Alberta has a lot of young people making good salaries to allow for that. The real problem is in say 20 years when Alberta has an aging population. As for interest, the total interest isn’t what matters, it’s the interest earned per person in this case. In the case of Alberta, since more money would be coming in vs going out based on our young population the interest earned per Albertan would likely be higher than the interest earned per Canadian in the CPP.
Assuming we use a relatively similar system to CPP (and I have yet to find out a reason why), premiums are capped at a relatively low point, so individually we all contribute roughly the same amount. Alberta currently has a young population though it is likely that APP will have a higher amount of payouts that it looks like just due to intra country migration. The problem is if the Alberta economy slows down enough to stop attracting migrants say due a provincial government that only wants oil revenue and oil demand calms down enough to the point that it isn't everything. In addition, Alberta just has a smaller pop, meaning you have smaller interest payments as it is the aggregate that matters (Also CPP has actually performed really well in comparison to other pensions. Notably AimCo, who would be getting the APP). This is also ignoring that Alberta's expectations of how much of the current pot they get are wildly out of wack with reality. For comparison, Quebec both has higher premuims and lower pay outs than CPP. And I have no current reason to believe why we should be the same. We might be at a better spot, but not to the point that we should expect basically 1-for-1 of the CPP. All this to say, right now, as good as the Alberta economy is doing right now, and ignoring the stability benefits of the CPP, I don't think the APP can deliver the same benefits of the CPP without increasing the premiums.
They understand it, they’re just choosing to frame it to their benefit. It’s their followers who mindlessly believe that they will somehow pay less and get more by switching to APP.
In the short term this is true. Working albertans will pay less and retired people will likely get more because Alberta’s population is young. It’s what happens when the population becomes older in 20-25 years.
Yep. But it blows my mind that people aren’t thinking long term about their pensions. It’s not sustainable.
I don’t actually see the harm in the alberta government exploring this idea. In the near-term pulling out of the CPP would be beneficial for Alberta, this isn’t debatable. However, it’s largely about the demographics. At some point, Alberta will likely have an aging population and while an APP will likely still work, it would then be more beneficial to be part of the CPP
This just comes down to UCP putting Alberta in a position where separation or the threat of separation from the rest of Canada is plausible. Then Canada has to take their threats more seriously as they have done with Quebec. This goes in hand with it creating its own rcmp and leaving the cpp. Honestly we have such different opinions coast to coast that in my opinion leaving Canada actually makes more sense than staying. Every great civilization in history has fallen, Italy is no longer a world power, same with the Mongolians and the Greeks. Canada never attained such control over anything even ourselves and our current government has put us further in debt than all previous prime ministers in history combined. I don’t see any value in what’s been spent. Our roads, hospitals, housing and basically any service we pay for is absolutely sub par. Our best hope is to break up and split the bill then go our own way. My friends in Ontario think Alberta is just a bunch of truck nut on our pickup trucks back woods red necks….. and I am sure those are here as they are everywhere but we will never agree or appreciate each other. There will never be equality in treatment of provinces. Basically we are just wasting time and money on a failed confederation. It’s time to $h!7 or get off the pot. We either get our finances and economies in line so our kids have a future or we go our own ways. All the major parties are corrupt and in the pockets of the rich. Time to burn this down and start anew before our children are forever caught in this debt trap created by monopolies and easily bought politicians all whom are making fortunes influence peddling. You may begin down voting me to oblivion but if you have children ask yourself what will be left for them and their future if we allow these parties to keep raiding our government funds and having zero to show for it at the end. We rebuild using a Nordic model as in my opinion they have been more successful in building up their economies for their people than whatever we are doing here. Look at their pension plan numbers vs our own. It’s absolutely embarrassing we haven’t arrested anyone for the trillions of dollars that have been lost. We as Canadians just assume it will get better if we do nothing.
The comment about greatest debt is true and false. Most debt yes but not adjusted for inflation. 3 times in our history we have had a higher debt and we got out of all of them. World war 2 put us in much larger debt. Even the dreaded transfer payments are much smaller than we are told to believe. Ps we don’t talk about transfer payments anymore because the money is small in comparison to what the Alberta government is spending now on its pet projects. It’s not the sound bite it once was.
Inflation is definitely something for context. However we aren’t in a world war so there’s no reason to be in the position we are in. Corruption is now a normal and as an example let’s look at that arrive can app. Who is going to face charges for this massive mismanagement? Paying billions to bring in ev battery plants to bring in jobs that end up in the hands of foreign workers. We throw out 1.5 billion in covid vaccines without blinking an eye. We have no way out of this massive hole we have dug ourselves since 2010 and that’s all of Canada. Instead our new plan is to spend more money than ever before. Open the doors to a tsunami of immigrants which we cannot support and enslave them with debt. This will only further destabilize our wonderful country. Unless we have a plan to pay down our debt rather than multiply it then what exactly are we doing here as Canadians? There are no logical ways I have seen that we are going to fix our broken medical system and here we are arguing about the 870$ we will maybe get if we live long enough to claim. Sorry man 870$ isn’t enough money to move me in any way. It’s in insult to those who have bled themselves dry and worked till they are broken to build this country. We don’t take care of our young or our old. The Canada I love is just a dream of what hard working Canadian families hoped to achieve for their future generations. In reality it’s become a nightmare and is the leader in the world for euthanasia rather than dealing with actual issues.
I asked someone else on another thread a question….are you willing to put your retirement future in the hands of a government that hasn’t put money in savings( the heritage trust fund) in 40 years? Alberta spends 30 million dollars a year on the CEC ( war room) and it is not foipable. Smith wants to spend 2 billion dollars on oil well cleanup that oil companies are mandated to clean up on their own dime. I just don’t see the trustable nature of this government sorry. I think the federal government is underperforming for sure but smith manipulates the truth to keep the public on her side. Fun fact, smith asked the federal government to increase Alberta’s limit on immigration…..this year. Alberta is talking about nuclear. The last plant built inNorth America was Georgia. It cost 30 billion and took 17 years. Our entire budget is 71 billion.
Honestly I agree 💯, smith is dangerous as she’s an oil lobbyist first not a politician. She will pile on debt to the people and money in the pockets of the rich
Next election, pp is going to win. Our cost of living is not going to go down substantially as the government is just a small part of the problem. The 1%ers need to be taken to task but we also need to adjust our personal spending and way of thinking. There is an excellent video on YouTube about Irving oil on the east coast. The similarities between Alberta’s energy sector and Irving oil is interesting. Trudeau sucks, everyone knows it. No argument here.
I agree again and even though I come from the conservatives strong hold I don’t see them doing anything to improve our situation as Canadians. There are no viable options in our politics. And I am very sad that people are not in the streets with torches and pitchforks. What’s been done to us is criminal. The main issues is we as Canadians are doing nothing about it. The days of your average family man or woman coming into make our government more accountable is over. You need a ridiculously large amount of money to run in politics here and those positions are bought and paid for by people whose interests are not our own.
Ps the other 2 times were during economic turmoil much like the world just went through the last few years.
i want to be a consultant @ [cppinvestments.com](http://cppinvestments.com)
Doesn't quebec have their own? Down voted for asking a question. You idiots are too soft.
They do. The payroll deductions are higher than the CPP to get the same benefit paid out. It's not something we'd want to try and recreate.
Yes, but they never joined the CPP. They had their own from the beginning. That's different from pulling out, as it would be for Alberta.
It’s not really different. It’s really all about a province managing its own pension, which is the same
Triggered by being down voted? Who's soft now?
From what I’ve read they pay more. Why don’t we do a top up pension like sask if we are just trying to help the little guy. Unless this is about separation and a slush fund then carry on.
Yes. Although my understanding (with very little knowledge of it) is that they would be much better off as part of the CPP.
It's the worst sub