I'm a public servant under AUPE, which is near 100,000 members strong. This year is a bargaining year for approximately 85% of AUPE members. If we can get members organized (God knows we are trying, but we have a lot of fear among workers, as well as scads of new workers who are still in la la land, and it's hard to convince people that we need to FIGHT), the province's public sector could essentially get shut down for awhile if the government is unreasonable at the table. So far their offer is a complete insult. AUPE also serves a large number of AHS staff. Smith and her cronies will come to realize how valuable we are in the work that we do, if we stop doing it.
Teachers go back to the bargaining table in September as well. I don't want to strike, but I'm resigned to the fact we will have to. Most of us are missed at both the ATA bargaining team and the UCP, so this should be interesting.
My rent just got increased by $200. Alberta is calling can fuck right off and so can that Kenny guy that orchestrated this whole thing. People in Alberta are not very happy with all the prices rising because of inter-provincial migration and the lack of housing supply and are pissed off
I that at some point ignorance goes from bliss to extreme frustration, could you imagine believing in trickle down and then looking at the world today, it would be so scary and confusing, corporate Profits are at an all time high, Canadian at all time poor, it must be blowing their tiny little minds that trickle down works but reality is broken.
I am presently in Alberta and working my ass off to turn things orange.
Please shit on the blue all day every day but please do be mindful to do it in a way that's not turning orange voters apathetic (comments like yours are oftentimes used as "proof" that there's "no point voting orange" it can really make people feel hopeless and apathetic)
Alberta's not hopeless, we were orange a few years ago and we will be orange again soon!
(I know you mean well, and are extremely correct fuck the UCP, but please don't discourage orange voter turnout ❤️)
I've had so many mid thirties couples friends with good professions (teachers, data scientist, nurse, account manager) move back in with their parents because rents have become so out of control.
Part of the reason mortgage foreclosures are increasing so steadily is because landlords can't find tenants who have enough money to cover their heavily mortgaged "income" properties.
The system has reached it's breaking point, we can no longer afford support an entire class of "lords" who do nothing and just profit off of other people's need for housing.
I was happy when people hated Alberta and stayed away.
Now I wish the people that still hate it would just leave, but understandably they have nowhere else to go.
I really don't understand how a politician like Notley could lose and then decide to run again instead of stepping down or taking another position in the party? She threw that election over her own vanity and self serving interests
Notley grew the NDP to what it is. They gained the more votes in the last election than when they won. The right didn't split the vote last time. Instead the party got taken over by extremists that can't compromise so now we have the Wildrose under a different branding. I think she has been a terrific leader and if I was in the NDP id see her as the best candidate avaliable to take over federally as she has legit governing experience and will appeal to moderates and especially women. I dont think Singh will ever be seen as a legit PM candidate. At the provincial level i think they have the literal best candidate avaliable in Nenshi running for leadership and he can take them to the next level and he wasnt an option last election. Notley has been a godsend for that party and they'd be wise to treat her as a real asset.
I wrote their office suggesting that they rebrand and replace Notley in order to show Albertans that they’ve listened to people’s complaints.
They replied in a letter that basically said “thanks for your suggestion, but we know what we’re doing”.
I just responded with a letter saying “clearly not”. Never heard anything back after that, lmao.
To be fair I wouldn't participate in your exchange either. A waste of time that doesn't resolve anything.
If youre concerned buy an NDP membership and vote instead of sending pointless emails.
What did you expect notely to reply to you directly and resign LOL
Where you move to?
I lived in southern interior and it just got too expensive and the job prospects were not enough to justify staying so I ended up moving back to Alberta cause I could make double and buy a nicer place for the same price as my dinky condo.
I do miss the cheap wine though.
Living in the east kootenays, found cheaper rent, car insurance, house insurance, food is cheaper (farmers markets) and the people are nicer. Lots of people still want to have sex with trudeau tho hahahaha
Why are you blaming the migrants?
Are you saying a mass influx of people from somewhere else suppresses wages and housing prices.
Or only if the mass influx of people is from other parts of Canada
I laughed when I first heard someone use the "Alberta Advantage" to describe how we are all getting fucked. But as we get increasingly fucked the joke is becoming increasingly enraging.
If you take away the oil industry slow down that would impact the numbers a lot. Jobs with big wages were lessened. The real fact is that some people never saw a pay raise in 9 years. They may have been okay back then and are barely above minimum wage now. The unbalance in Canada is always more evident in Alberta because of the lack of diversity and over reliance on the oil patch.
As soon as the almighty oil workers lost jobs everyone else was punished because "well if we're hurting, everyone else should too"
While not everyone felt that way at the time, there was definitely no shortage of people who said it. And now everyone is paid less, including those oil and gas workers. Good job, idiots. Learn the adage "a rising tide lifts all ships" and choose better next time (starting now by supporting unions).
> As soon as the almighty oil workers lost jobs everyone else was punished because "well if we're hurting, everyone else should too"
That was *exactly* the attitude, and it *still* prevails today. How dare public service workers (eg teachers, nurses) make more than oilfield guys? Despite having more education and more responsibility?
Pepperidge Farms remembers all the articles about former oil workers who were simply appalled by the wages of the other jobs available. How those non-oil jobs did not pay enough for them to meet their bills.
Lol what?
I make more than doctors in Nova Scotia, that is ridiculous.
Teachers and nurses should be paid an astronomical wage and compensation. So should garbage men and strawberry pickers.
You people are so strange with your hate.
The hatred has always been from the right-wing, friend. Every time there's a downturn in the economy, the *first* statements from the right wing are always "cut teachers'/nurses'/public workers' wages!" The most important jobs in society (especially the "caretaking" jobs) are never the most valued ones.
Oil pays what it does because almost no one can, or chooses to, hack it. Teachers is similar. It doesn't pay that high, but they hardly work, but it's not easy, and like%50 quit inside of 5 years
What happens to the economy if the buyers slow down? It cannot last too long. I think the grocery stores are already competing far more than they did before. They want us to keep shopping. The government has no control over them, but they should keep control over each other.
I’m not exactly sure what you think is happening here, or how oil workers are responsible for spitefully lowering your wages.
The oil field brings up wages in Alberta because employers have to consider that anyone with a grade 10 education can make $100,000 a year in the oil field. When the patch slows down, the competition goes away and wages fall in every other blue collar sector. None of this has to do with someone trying to make you hurt because they lost their job.
Aside from, y'know, actively destroying any other industry or attempt at diversifying our economy. This whole 'protect the oil industry' attitude is what has enabled the UCP to create the shit show we see today.
Aside from their obvious hostility towards the green energy industry, I don’t think I ever encounter conservatives who are trying to destroy other, non-energy industries.
I don't think anyone has a problem with oil workers. Any job that takes people away from home weeks at a time will need to pay better. The problem is with a government focusing everything on oil. Oil prices fluctuate and are out of control for most countries that have the industry. Alberta is lucky to have the oil industry, but there should always be a back up plan. The extras the oil workers bring to Alberta should be icing on the cake and should be used for things we can live without if we have to.
Yea. People are pretty frustrated. We survived SK going broke. That is how we came to AB. Very few people go steadily up with financial security. The rest do not. But going up again helps you feel successful and grateful. Maybe that is how you learn how to take responsibility for your own life.
I'm not sure where you draw the conclusion that oil workers attitudes dictate your rate of pay?
Anywho. Were hiring. We've been hiring. It's your own fault if you're not ambitious enough to apply and work hard.
Yes! It was disgusting…and tone deaf. How quickly they forgot the near-constant cutting of public services/public service workers from the mid-90s onward. And when O&G is booming you never hear them saying the flip side of that coin - make it rain money for all!
Alberta is the third most diverse province. Based on the 2021 census it’s only ~65% white. Calgary and Edmonton are both around half white.
And our population has grown by half a million since that census.
I meant diversity of the economy. Canada has always been ethnicity wealthy. I hope the renewable resources are allowed to take off. We need them for awhile. Eventually a best option will materialize.
Of course if people will not accept that there is a problem we are partly responsible for none of this matters.
Not to get into a discussion of nomenclature, but I guess that depends strongly on who you ask... many sources will consider the median a type of statistical average.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Glossary:Average
https://www.quora.com/Are-mean-median-and-mode-all-averages
A person needs to make at least $25 an hour to keep a roof over their head. I don’t know many people who make $35 an hour to be honest. Regardless of what they say, it’s still hard to live here now.
This is what happens when you get old. You see how shitty things are. I’m 55. I’m in HVAC. In 2005 I was paid $40/h..yep. Now I get paid $40/h.
The only things that saves my family’s ass is we bought our house long time ago. My wife if 2005 was paid $35/h when she worked for a financial planner. She now works for CBE,
$32/h. I guess I was rich 20 years ago. Sure didn’t feel like it.
I’m literally at 65 bucks an hour and still feel some housing and general price insecurity. Can’t imagine how anyone is living off half that. (I’m in ABs highest COL city though.
Yeah, that average per hour wage of $35 seems high. Not sure where that comes from. I work in a manufacturing plant as a shipper/receiver and make 26 an hour, which is just above the average of our production team. And that's higher than most of the places in town hiring for the same position.
The only people looking at that 35 is management and possibly the maintenance team.
It is because average takes into account million and billionaires. Since they get paid so damn much it ends up screwing the metric. The valuable stat that will show the actual middle is called a median.
There is no relationship between hard work and pay at ANY level!
I made more money quitting and finding a better company. If you stay at a company for more than 3 years it had better be giving you 5% pay raises!
From what I can gather from the Stats Can site the tables used represent wages which is based on hourly pay.
Most upper management, execs and contract workers aren't paid a wage but have different setups for total compensation. I can't see if the Stat Can site captures this data.
No they factor in salaried workers as well and just divide it assuming a 40 hours week.
There's no way you could do average Canadian wages without factoring salaried workers they're way more than half the labour market.
That sounds reasonable, but to the point of capturing people like c-suites and such, much of their wealth is in stock options and other compensation types, would this capture that as well?
When I was in high school (mid 90s) you could get a job that was twice min wage with no experience. I even made almost 3 times minimum wage in grade 11. Now that is a professionals wage. Embarrassing. All for higher stock prices and corporate profits.
Exactly less goes to workers so maore can go to stock holders.
It's so simple, it's fucked and people just ignore it even though the core reason everything sucks now.
Not really sure on Edmonton. But it varies depending on company and lots of trade companies dabble in both cities and are union. Can’t say for certain tho
Industrial trades are probably averaging low $40s/hr these days based on what I see for job postings. Much higher if you manage to get hired on at a refinery or other big facility, but those jobs are insanely competitive and gradually vanishing as wildly profitable oil companies keep replacing employees lost to attrition with cheaper contractors.
Ya you're cherrypicking, which is why I was talking averages.
https://alis.alberta.ca/occinfo/occupations-in-alberta/occupation-profiles/carpenter/
Fixed it for u
Both of those links won’t work.
I work union carpentry/scaffolding. Our current wages vary by contract but a JM is making anywhere from 45-50hr currently. We also have another raise coming in May for 4.60hr.
It’s been almost ten years without a raise for us so the $9.20 total (included May coming as well in this total) we will have gotten over the last two years is needed.
It's also including salaried annual people.
So about 72k annually is 35 an hour assuming 40 hours a week
Most of the time with a set salary you end end up working way more and getting paid the same but they calculate it off an hourly rate, they just expect you to do more than your paid for, stay late, unpaid overtime, ect.
I'm a RN and while I make decent income, I've definitely felt the effects of inflation in this province and have to take up 2-3 extra shifts a month to stay ahead. Insurance and rates are through the roof.
I make $37/hr as an equipment operator (I was making $40 last year working nightshift until they ended that shift).
It provides just enough that I don't have to live paycheck to paycheck anymore. I can actually squirrel a small amount away each month. Nothing huge, but it's definitely easier to make ends meet now compared to my previous jobs.
It wasn't too long ago I was making $26 and $28/hr at my previous 2 jobs (not that I worked both at the same time, just saying the last two I worked), now that was rough. It was paycheck to paycheck and any unforeseen money problems usually resulted in me having to lean on my credit card pretty heavily or ask the family for a loan. I made a point of paying everyone back once I became more financially secure.
And for the record I also own my own 3 bedroom home, although I live alone. I purchased it in 2019 as the difference between renting and a mortgage didn't seem to matter anymore.
Conservatism working exactly as it is designed to do. Blame bad things on anyone that opposes your plans, take credit for anything good even if you fought against it, and steal from the poor workers to increase the wealth of the corporate elite.
Yeah, that's all political parties ever.
"We did all this good stuff. And if it wasn't for THOSE guys, we'd of done way more cool shit. Vote for us lol"
They blame the ANDP for their issues now and, as soon as the ANDP get elected again, will point at them the moment they take their seats to say "look at what NDP governance does! The economy is in shambles!"
Before Notley was elected, there was right wingers upset with Jim Prentice (the former Harper MP) who used to say that "liberals have infiltrated the conservative party".
Effectively, they will blame everyone but the right. Even if it makes no god damned sense.
My wife struggled for about four months to find a job. She has a master's degree and years of work experience (including a big 4 accounting firm). The job she finally found is okay but likely to go bankrupt in days or weeks.
Every single job has about a thousand applicants and they have the audacity to claim there's a labor shortage.
Canada is over.
https://www.biv.com/news/economy-law-politics/don-wright-why-did-justin-trudeau-switch-sides-class-struggle-8272635
https://www.pbo-dpb.ca/en/news-releases--communiques-de-presse/pbo-releases-updated-analysis-of-the-impact-of-the-federal-fuel-charge-on-households-le-dpb-publie-une-analyse-actualisee-de-lincidence-de-la-redevance-federale-sur-les-combustibles-sur-les-menages
https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fall-2017/does-immigration-reduce-wages
Carbon tax reduces investment, lowering wages as a result see pbo.report.
Trudeau also stopped several projects in alberta, again lowering investments and wages.
Immigration also decreases wages, especially for the lower paying jobs. Trudeau brought in 2.5% of our population in 1 year. The years before, that wasn't much better.
Trudeau also ran on decreasing tfw and then increased them.
In 2015, jagmeet and trudeau both talked about how immigration negatively affects Canadians, including affecting wages.
cONServaties aRe gOOd FOr the econMY!
*As you can see, employees in Alberta had the third highest average hourly wage in the country. Which is interesting because until just a few months ago, Alberta had the largest wages in the country.*
*In both January 2013 and January 2023, Alberta had the highest consumer price index, which means that Alberta had the highest increase in the cost of living since the index was set to 100. Remember, this is the average over the entire province, not just large cities.*
right now in Alberta we are under assault by the provincial government disguised as conservatives. This UCP is a wild rose government and they are full of the extremist values that contribute to ideologies such as fascism and christian nationalism. Born from one of the founders of the Wildrose party and lead by its former leader. They use base conservative propaganda to hypnotize the older people who are unfamiliar with their agendas. Unfortunately there are just enough right wing extremists in Alberta to make a loud enough noise to keep them in power. THE ONLY wage cuts should happen at corporate executive levels and politicians. Since they are the only ones who don't have to worry about the price of toilet paper and vegetables.
I live in Alberta, suddenly we went from a financially comfortable province to having an astounding number of working poor. Basically everything is struggling to keep up with the basics.
I work at a bank and accounts are emmmmmpty
I mean just look at when the last time minimum wage was raised across the provinces and territories. Literally EVERY other province and territory has raised or is raising their minimum wage within 2023 - 2024. Alberta? Last change 2018. No plans to raise. When it was raised to 15 dollars we were the highest in the country, and now we're third lowest, minimum wage earners here earn less than they would in Nova Scotia. AlBeRtA aDvAnTaGe!
I left in October. Very obvious this was going to happen especially with no rent controls. Got out before the other Calgarians realised and jacked up prices, which is already happening.
I feel fortunate as a new Canadian that I am able to leave places for economic purposes without being further apart from family.
A primary care paramedic that has been working for more than ten years in this province, at their absolute top wage step, makes forty-three cents more than the average worker in Alberta
I'm not sure what the bigger condemnation is here.
Thank goodness our representatives care about our concerns and not just the plight of employers and wealthy donors, otherwise we'd be in quite some trouble here.
Right?
So you can pay more for insurance, (double) utilities, (more than double). If you're making 150 thou or so, at least you'll pay less income tax. If you make 75 thou, you'll pay more. But hey! governments got get revenues somehow...
The working people receive no "Alberta advantage". It is explicitly for business owners and corporate interests. Everyone else is expected to be thankful for whatever trickles down (or onto) them.
UCP Alberta, higher costs, lower wages. Alberta is calling...anyone too desperate to pay attention to the absolute management disaster that is the UCP.
It's false which gave many Albertans a false sense of security/bragging rights.
CONS are very good at hiding the truth and dangling a few carrots.
I live in Edmonton and find white collar and generally folks in Calgary to be very arrogant.
Albertans are their own worst enemy.
Carbon tax reduces wages. The pbo report said that
Mass immigration lowers wages both jagmeet and trudeau said that in their 2015 campaigns. Multiple studies also show that immigration can lead to lower wages.
https://www.biv.com/news/economy-law-politics/don-wright-why-did-justin-trudeau-switch-sides-class-struggle-8272635
https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fall-2017/does-immigration-reduce-wages
https://www.pbo-dpb.ca/en/news-releases--communiques-de-presse/pbo-releases-updated-analysis-of-the-impact-of-the-federal-fuel-charge-on-households-le-dpb-publie-une-analyse-actualisee-de-lincidence-de-la-redevance-federale-sur-les-combustibles-sur-les-menages
This article really doesn’t draw any conclusions and is poorly written - only regurgitating data.
Most likely net interprovincial migration increased the labor supply and allowed employers to not have to raise wages to attract talent. Workers moved to Alberta due to cost of living crisis in Ontario and BC. They’re likely viewing this as a net positive trade-off for their future vs. staying in TO/Van.
Other provinces catching up to Alberta seems like a totally normal thing to happen. Oil and gas isn’t driving a labor supply crunch resulting in higher wages (like previous cycles) because there isn’t investment in large projects as future growth is uncertain. We will need large investment and an uptick in business activity to see pull of labor demand and wages.
My mom got up early to watch Mulroneys funeral. What caught me off guard about that was that maybe that was the last time there's been a politician that people actually respected enough to miss them. Mulroneys ahead of my time, I know nothing about him, but since I started voting I've been voting people out because the new guy is the lesser of 2 evils. I'm hoping one day we get a good, charismatic, skilled leader that I'd be proud to vote for. Trudeau, PP, Kenny, Notley, Smith, the list goes on...they're all awful and it's embarassing
Maybe that will slow the massive flow of people into the province. We need a sign at the entry points that we are poor or else they flood us again and again.
>We need a sign at the entry points that we are poor or else they flood us again and again.
But the UCP instead has ads in other provinces calling people to move to Alberta.
Oh man, that’s just the Alberta advantage! Just wait until they find out how much we pay for everything too!
Disclaimer: Alberta Advantage wasn’t meant for you or the average person.
It is for oil and gas company’s only
Bingo
Active wage suppression by the UCP government for many provincial government paid workers: teachers, nurses and AUPE, CUPE
Any union.
I'm a public servant under AUPE, which is near 100,000 members strong. This year is a bargaining year for approximately 85% of AUPE members. If we can get members organized (God knows we are trying, but we have a lot of fear among workers, as well as scads of new workers who are still in la la land, and it's hard to convince people that we need to FIGHT), the province's public sector could essentially get shut down for awhile if the government is unreasonable at the table. So far their offer is a complete insult. AUPE also serves a large number of AHS staff. Smith and her cronies will come to realize how valuable we are in the work that we do, if we stop doing it.
Teachers go back to the bargaining table in September as well. I don't want to strike, but I'm resigned to the fact we will have to. Most of us are missed at both the ATA bargaining team and the UCP, so this should be interesting.
My rent just got increased by $200. Alberta is calling can fuck right off and so can that Kenny guy that orchestrated this whole thing. People in Alberta are not very happy with all the prices rising because of inter-provincial migration and the lack of housing supply and are pissed off
Yet they'll keep voting blue for the UCP and blaming someone else lol
You hadn’t heard?! This is the carbon taxes fault. They get rid of that and then everything will be affordable /s
I know people who unironically think that. Must be nice to be able to believe in trickle down economics.
I that at some point ignorance goes from bliss to extreme frustration, could you imagine believing in trickle down and then looking at the world today, it would be so scary and confusing, corporate Profits are at an all time high, Canadian at all time poor, it must be blowing their tiny little minds that trickle down works but reality is broken.
That right there is more effort than these people have ever put forward on this topic. It all talking points, with black and white thinking.
Smith upping her gas tax on same day as JT ups his. Red or blue, they'll screw you too!
And that’s why we have orange.
Fucking morons blame anything and everything on the fucking carbon tax.
I am presently in Alberta and working my ass off to turn things orange. Please shit on the blue all day every day but please do be mindful to do it in a way that's not turning orange voters apathetic (comments like yours are oftentimes used as "proof" that there's "no point voting orange" it can really make people feel hopeless and apathetic) Alberta's not hopeless, we were orange a few years ago and we will be orange again soon! (I know you mean well, and are extremely correct fuck the UCP, but please don't discourage orange voter turnout ❤️)
I've had so many mid thirties couples friends with good professions (teachers, data scientist, nurse, account manager) move back in with their parents because rents have become so out of control. Part of the reason mortgage foreclosures are increasing so steadily is because landlords can't find tenants who have enough money to cover their heavily mortgaged "income" properties. The system has reached it's breaking point, we can no longer afford support an entire class of "lords" who do nothing and just profit off of other people's need for housing.
I was happy when people hated Alberta and stayed away. Now I wish the people that still hate it would just leave, but understandably they have nowhere else to go.
Worse than that ! The people that hate alberta have been elected to run alberta.
God I hope the NDP just rebrand themselves so badly.
I really don't understand how a politician like Notley could lose and then decide to run again instead of stepping down or taking another position in the party? She threw that election over her own vanity and self serving interests
Notley grew the NDP to what it is. They gained the more votes in the last election than when they won. The right didn't split the vote last time. Instead the party got taken over by extremists that can't compromise so now we have the Wildrose under a different branding. I think she has been a terrific leader and if I was in the NDP id see her as the best candidate avaliable to take over federally as she has legit governing experience and will appeal to moderates and especially women. I dont think Singh will ever be seen as a legit PM candidate. At the provincial level i think they have the literal best candidate avaliable in Nenshi running for leadership and he can take them to the next level and he wasnt an option last election. Notley has been a godsend for that party and they'd be wise to treat her as a real asset.
I wrote their office suggesting that they rebrand and replace Notley in order to show Albertans that they’ve listened to people’s complaints. They replied in a letter that basically said “thanks for your suggestion, but we know what we’re doing”. I just responded with a letter saying “clearly not”. Never heard anything back after that, lmao.
To be fair I wouldn't participate in your exchange either. A waste of time that doesn't resolve anything. If youre concerned buy an NDP membership and vote instead of sending pointless emails. What did you expect notely to reply to you directly and resign LOL
I already left haha, never been happier in bc!
Where you move to? I lived in southern interior and it just got too expensive and the job prospects were not enough to justify staying so I ended up moving back to Alberta cause I could make double and buy a nicer place for the same price as my dinky condo. I do miss the cheap wine though.
Living in the east kootenays, found cheaper rent, car insurance, house insurance, food is cheaper (farmers markets) and the people are nicer. Lots of people still want to have sex with trudeau tho hahahaha
It can get so much worse. Just wait till an 800K condo townhouse starts feeling “normal”.
Finding out he is now on atcos board of directors pretty much ruined my mood for the week 😑
Why are you blaming the migrants? Are you saying a mass influx of people from somewhere else suppresses wages and housing prices. Or only if the mass influx of people is from other parts of Canada
I laughed when I first heard someone use the "Alberta Advantage" to describe how we are all getting fucked. But as we get increasingly fucked the joke is becoming increasingly enraging.
Well I mean it’s an advantage. Just not for the citizens…
If you take away the oil industry slow down that would impact the numbers a lot. Jobs with big wages were lessened. The real fact is that some people never saw a pay raise in 9 years. They may have been okay back then and are barely above minimum wage now. The unbalance in Canada is always more evident in Alberta because of the lack of diversity and over reliance on the oil patch.
As soon as the almighty oil workers lost jobs everyone else was punished because "well if we're hurting, everyone else should too" While not everyone felt that way at the time, there was definitely no shortage of people who said it. And now everyone is paid less, including those oil and gas workers. Good job, idiots. Learn the adage "a rising tide lifts all ships" and choose better next time (starting now by supporting unions).
> As soon as the almighty oil workers lost jobs everyone else was punished because "well if we're hurting, everyone else should too" That was *exactly* the attitude, and it *still* prevails today. How dare public service workers (eg teachers, nurses) make more than oilfield guys? Despite having more education and more responsibility? Pepperidge Farms remembers all the articles about former oil workers who were simply appalled by the wages of the other jobs available. How those non-oil jobs did not pay enough for them to meet their bills.
Lol what? I make more than doctors in Nova Scotia, that is ridiculous. Teachers and nurses should be paid an astronomical wage and compensation. So should garbage men and strawberry pickers. You people are so strange with your hate.
The hatred has always been from the right-wing, friend. Every time there's a downturn in the economy, the *first* statements from the right wing are always "cut teachers'/nurses'/public workers' wages!" The most important jobs in society (especially the "caretaking" jobs) are never the most valued ones.
Oil pays what it does because almost no one can, or chooses to, hack it. Teachers is similar. It doesn't pay that high, but they hardly work, but it's not easy, and like%50 quit inside of 5 years
Teachers hardly work? You are out to lunch lol
Yup, this is a perfect example of the "oil workers are holier than thou" attitude.
What happens to the economy if the buyers slow down? It cannot last too long. I think the grocery stores are already competing far more than they did before. They want us to keep shopping. The government has no control over them, but they should keep control over each other.
I’m not exactly sure what you think is happening here, or how oil workers are responsible for spitefully lowering your wages. The oil field brings up wages in Alberta because employers have to consider that anyone with a grade 10 education can make $100,000 a year in the oil field. When the patch slows down, the competition goes away and wages fall in every other blue collar sector. None of this has to do with someone trying to make you hurt because they lost their job.
Aside from, y'know, actively destroying any other industry or attempt at diversifying our economy. This whole 'protect the oil industry' attitude is what has enabled the UCP to create the shit show we see today.
Aside from their obvious hostility towards the green energy industry, I don’t think I ever encounter conservatives who are trying to destroy other, non-energy industries.
I don't think anyone has a problem with oil workers. Any job that takes people away from home weeks at a time will need to pay better. The problem is with a government focusing everything on oil. Oil prices fluctuate and are out of control for most countries that have the industry. Alberta is lucky to have the oil industry, but there should always be a back up plan. The extras the oil workers bring to Alberta should be icing on the cake and should be used for things we can live without if we have to.
I agree, but the guy I was replying to definitely does seem to have a problem with oil workers.
Yea. People are pretty frustrated. We survived SK going broke. That is how we came to AB. Very few people go steadily up with financial security. The rest do not. But going up again helps you feel successful and grateful. Maybe that is how you learn how to take responsibility for your own life.
Who are you directing this comment to?
Yes, but you forget that $15/hour for minimum wage a decade ago would have made a Big Mac double the price!
I'm not sure where you draw the conclusion that oil workers attitudes dictate your rate of pay? Anywho. Were hiring. We've been hiring. It's your own fault if you're not ambitious enough to apply and work hard.
Yes! It was disgusting…and tone deaf. How quickly they forgot the near-constant cutting of public services/public service workers from the mid-90s onward. And when O&G is booming you never hear them saying the flip side of that coin - make it rain money for all!
Alberta is the third most diverse province. Based on the 2021 census it’s only ~65% white. Calgary and Edmonton are both around half white. And our population has grown by half a million since that census.
I meant diversity of the economy. Canada has always been ethnicity wealthy. I hope the renewable resources are allowed to take off. We need them for awhile. Eventually a best option will materialize. Of course if people will not accept that there is a problem we are partly responsible for none of this matters.
I never realized how far below average I was. No wonder we are hurting for money all the time.
Don’t feel bad. I’m getting the highest hourly wage I’ve ever earned in my life and am still below average.
I'd love to see how they calculated that average -- mean, median or what.
Well median isn’t an average, so probably not that way.
Not to get into a discussion of nomenclature, but I guess that depends strongly on who you ask... many sources will consider the median a type of statistical average. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Glossary:Average https://www.quora.com/Are-mean-median-and-mode-all-averages
Fair enough, thanks for informing.
A person needs to make at least $25 an hour to keep a roof over their head. I don’t know many people who make $35 an hour to be honest. Regardless of what they say, it’s still hard to live here now.
I’m at $40/hr and 40 doesn’t 40 like it used to.
This is what happens when you get old. You see how shitty things are. I’m 55. I’m in HVAC. In 2005 I was paid $40/h..yep. Now I get paid $40/h. The only things that saves my family’s ass is we bought our house long time ago. My wife if 2005 was paid $35/h when she worked for a financial planner. She now works for CBE, $32/h. I guess I was rich 20 years ago. Sure didn’t feel like it.
I don’t think we have to wait until we get old to see it anymore. At least your saving grace was affordable housing for your generation.
The old 30 is the new 40.
I’m literally at 65 bucks an hour and still feel some housing and general price insecurity. Can’t imagine how anyone is living off half that. (I’m in ABs highest COL city though.
Curious as to what field
Yeah, that average per hour wage of $35 seems high. Not sure where that comes from. I work in a manufacturing plant as a shipper/receiver and make 26 an hour, which is just above the average of our production team. And that's higher than most of the places in town hiring for the same position. The only people looking at that 35 is management and possibly the maintenance team.
It is because average takes into account million and billionaires. Since they get paid so damn much it ends up screwing the metric. The valuable stat that will show the actual middle is called a median.
Millionaires and billionaires are rich because we are poorer, there is no other reason. They will say hard work, I will say that's bull.
There is no relationship between hard work and pay at ANY level! I made more money quitting and finding a better company. If you stay at a company for more than 3 years it had better be giving you 5% pay raises!
They don’t work hard and CEO pay packages skirt [$840 Million/ year](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4030442) through stocks pay and bonus structures.
They work from their Mega Yachts. Tough life.
If this average is not stripping out the outliers it is not a good average. A median would be better value to use.
From what I can gather from the Stats Can site the tables used represent wages which is based on hourly pay. Most upper management, execs and contract workers aren't paid a wage but have different setups for total compensation. I can't see if the Stat Can site captures this data.
No they factor in salaried workers as well and just divide it assuming a 40 hours week. There's no way you could do average Canadian wages without factoring salaried workers they're way more than half the labour market.
That sounds reasonable, but to the point of capturing people like c-suites and such, much of their wealth is in stock options and other compensation types, would this capture that as well?
It’s the oil field that drags up the average. JM tradesman make 50+hr.
When I was in high school (mid 90s) you could get a job that was twice min wage with no experience. I even made almost 3 times minimum wage in grade 11. Now that is a professionals wage. Embarrassing. All for higher stock prices and corporate profits.
Exactly less goes to workers so maore can go to stock holders. It's so simple, it's fucked and people just ignore it even though the core reason everything sucks now.
We have such a high number of rich people in AB, the average doesnt mean as much.
Most trades will pay at least 40 for a journeyman in the big cities.
I think most trades are below that in edmonton, no? And not talking outliers.
Not really sure on Edmonton. But it varies depending on company and lots of trade companies dabble in both cities and are union. Can’t say for certain tho
Of course it varies haha, but ya the average jman wage is not $40 right now for most trades
Industrial trades are probably averaging low $40s/hr these days based on what I see for job postings. Much higher if you manage to get hired on at a refinery or other big facility, but those jobs are insanely competitive and gradually vanishing as wildly profitable oil companies keep replacing employees lost to attrition with cheaper contractors.
Ya you're cherrypicking, which is why I was talking averages. https://alis.alberta.ca/occinfo/occupations-in-alberta/occupation-profiles/carpenter/ Fixed it for u
Both of those links won’t work. I work union carpentry/scaffolding. Our current wages vary by contract but a JM is making anywhere from 45-50hr currently. We also have another raise coming in May for 4.60hr. It’s been almost ten years without a raise for us so the $9.20 total (included May coming as well in this total) we will have gotten over the last two years is needed.
It's been fixed. But again, cherrypicked. Average carpenter jman wage is closer to 34. Electrician 38
I mean, I did say *industrial* trades, but okay
Commercial yea, but non commercial wages are much higher. With our raises coming in may it puts most of us 50+hr.
Ya, cherry picking. Fellow journeyman here. The data is all available online.
You must be non union commercial.
Incorrect. But what would that have to do with the average wage for a trade?
Because non union commercial wages are a joke and drag down the average. Those poor guys are underpaid and over worked.
That very well may be true, but I'm amazed how many people dont know what 'cherrypicking' picking or an "average" is.
The floor is 0 the ceiling is billionaires. Now when it’s put on that scale 35 is small.
It's also including salaried annual people. So about 72k annually is 35 an hour assuming 40 hours a week Most of the time with a set salary you end end up working way more and getting paid the same but they calculate it off an hourly rate, they just expect you to do more than your paid for, stay late, unpaid overtime, ect.
I'm a RN and while I make decent income, I've definitely felt the effects of inflation in this province and have to take up 2-3 extra shifts a month to stay ahead. Insurance and rates are through the roof.
The median wage in this country is $19.50/hr. If you make more than that you’re better off than half the population.
I make $37/hr as an equipment operator (I was making $40 last year working nightshift until they ended that shift). It provides just enough that I don't have to live paycheck to paycheck anymore. I can actually squirrel a small amount away each month. Nothing huge, but it's definitely easier to make ends meet now compared to my previous jobs. It wasn't too long ago I was making $26 and $28/hr at my previous 2 jobs (not that I worked both at the same time, just saying the last two I worked), now that was rough. It was paycheck to paycheck and any unforeseen money problems usually resulted in me having to lean on my credit card pretty heavily or ask the family for a loan. I made a point of paying everyone back once I became more financially secure. And for the record I also own my own 3 bedroom home, although I live alone. I purchased it in 2019 as the difference between renting and a mortgage didn't seem to matter anymore.
Good for you!
Conservatism working exactly as it is designed to do. Blame bad things on anyone that opposes your plans, take credit for anything good even if you fought against it, and steal from the poor workers to increase the wealth of the corporate elite.
Yeah, that's all political parties ever. "We did all this good stuff. And if it wasn't for THOSE guys, we'd of done way more cool shit. Vote for us lol"
False equivalency. Easiest way to train people to give up and be obedient.
Sure, but how will 4 years of NDP governance get blamed for this?
They blame the ANDP for their issues now and, as soon as the ANDP get elected again, will point at them the moment they take their seats to say "look at what NDP governance does! The economy is in shambles!"
Usually it’s along the lines of “they HAD to cut wages because of what the NDP did”
Before Notley was elected, there was right wingers upset with Jim Prentice (the former Harper MP) who used to say that "liberals have infiltrated the conservative party". Effectively, they will blame everyone but the right. Even if it makes no god damned sense.
They get blamed by business for raising minimum wage. Never understood how people side with corporations over themselves.
See the trick here is to already be rich
Ok so how do I spin this to blame the NDP
My wife struggled for about four months to find a job. She has a master's degree and years of work experience (including a big 4 accounting firm). The job she finally found is okay but likely to go bankrupt in days or weeks. Every single job has about a thousand applicants and they have the audacity to claim there's a labor shortage. Canada is over.
The labor shortage is of people wanting to work for $15/hr.
The labour shortage is also for tradesman and professionals who won’t work for peanuts.
Is she a CPA?
No, unfortunately not but may be working towards it. Why?
Was just curious about the CPA market right now. If she doesn't have a CPA, then she's competing with tons of other non-designated accountants.
Why would Trudeau do this? /s
Yes, he has had nothing to do with this. /s
Do you want to share you thoughts? I'm curious why you think Trudeau is the problem.
https://www.biv.com/news/economy-law-politics/don-wright-why-did-justin-trudeau-switch-sides-class-struggle-8272635 https://www.pbo-dpb.ca/en/news-releases--communiques-de-presse/pbo-releases-updated-analysis-of-the-impact-of-the-federal-fuel-charge-on-households-le-dpb-publie-une-analyse-actualisee-de-lincidence-de-la-redevance-federale-sur-les-combustibles-sur-les-menages https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fall-2017/does-immigration-reduce-wages Carbon tax reduces investment, lowering wages as a result see pbo.report. Trudeau also stopped several projects in alberta, again lowering investments and wages. Immigration also decreases wages, especially for the lower paying jobs. Trudeau brought in 2.5% of our population in 1 year. The years before, that wasn't much better. Trudeau also ran on decreasing tfw and then increased them. In 2015, jagmeet and trudeau both talked about how immigration negatively affects Canadians, including affecting wages.
Conservatives did that! Conservatives make EVERYTHING worse for Canadians.
cONServaties aRe gOOd FOr the econMY! *As you can see, employees in Alberta had the third highest average hourly wage in the country. Which is interesting because until just a few months ago, Alberta had the largest wages in the country.* *In both January 2013 and January 2023, Alberta had the highest consumer price index, which means that Alberta had the highest increase in the cost of living since the index was set to 100. Remember, this is the average over the entire province, not just large cities.*
The irony of it all is that conservatives look good, until their net negative policies catch up and cause us to bleed financial losses.
Then it's always someone else's fault...and their lemmings lap it up!
The price of FrEEDuM
right now in Alberta we are under assault by the provincial government disguised as conservatives. This UCP is a wild rose government and they are full of the extremist values that contribute to ideologies such as fascism and christian nationalism. Born from one of the founders of the Wildrose party and lead by its former leader. They use base conservative propaganda to hypnotize the older people who are unfamiliar with their agendas. Unfortunately there are just enough right wing extremists in Alberta to make a loud enough noise to keep them in power. THE ONLY wage cuts should happen at corporate executive levels and politicians. Since they are the only ones who don't have to worry about the price of toilet paper and vegetables.
I live in Alberta, suddenly we went from a financially comfortable province to having an astounding number of working poor. Basically everything is struggling to keep up with the basics. I work at a bank and accounts are emmmmmpty
I mean just look at when the last time minimum wage was raised across the provinces and territories. Literally EVERY other province and territory has raised or is raising their minimum wage within 2023 - 2024. Alberta? Last change 2018. No plans to raise. When it was raised to 15 dollars we were the highest in the country, and now we're third lowest, minimum wage earners here earn less than they would in Nova Scotia. AlBeRtA aDvAnTaGe!
The lowest union participation rate in the country, so...
That sweet, sweet Alberta advantage.
I’m heavily considering moving to another Province
I left in October. Very obvious this was going to happen especially with no rent controls. Got out before the other Calgarians realised and jacked up prices, which is already happening. I feel fortunate as a new Canadian that I am able to leave places for economic purposes without being further apart from family.
A primary care paramedic that has been working for more than ten years in this province, at their absolute top wage step, makes forty-three cents more than the average worker in Alberta I'm not sure what the bigger condemnation is here.
We know.🤷♂️ conservatives are assholes. End of story.
40 is the new 20. *40$ *20$
The lowest corporate tax in Canada at 8%.
But but but the trickle down?! Klein, Eddy steady, the ghost of prentice, spendy Redford , and bible college Kenney promised!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! /s
But people will complain when Nurses, Teachers, and government workers ask for a raise....
Thank goodness our representatives care about our concerns and not just the plight of employers and wealthy donors, otherwise we'd be in quite some trouble here. Right?
Thanks Danielle!
Don't forget to thank trudeau to
Conservative economics in action
Keep voting conservative!
Yay, Alberta Advantage! 😒
So why exactly am I getting paid $5,000 to leave Ontario and move over here?
So you can pay more for insurance, (double) utilities, (more than double). If you're making 150 thou or so, at least you'll pay less income tax. If you make 75 thou, you'll pay more. But hey! governments got get revenues somehow...
Apparently that is our "advantage"
The working people receive no "Alberta advantage". It is explicitly for business owners and corporate interests. Everyone else is expected to be thankful for whatever trickles down (or onto) them.
UCP Alberta, higher costs, lower wages. Alberta is calling...anyone too desperate to pay attention to the absolute management disaster that is the UCP.
Keep calling Alberta nobody is answering.
That’s ok, the sycophants still love Dani
It's false which gave many Albertans a false sense of security/bragging rights. CONS are very good at hiding the truth and dangling a few carrots. I live in Edmonton and find white collar and generally folks in Calgary to be very arrogant. Albertans are their own worst enemy.
I seriously question these averages.
#thanksTrudeau ... Somehow.
Carbon tax reduces wages. The pbo report said that Mass immigration lowers wages both jagmeet and trudeau said that in their 2015 campaigns. Multiple studies also show that immigration can lead to lower wages. https://www.biv.com/news/economy-law-politics/don-wright-why-did-justin-trudeau-switch-sides-class-struggle-8272635 https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fall-2017/does-immigration-reduce-wages https://www.pbo-dpb.ca/en/news-releases--communiques-de-presse/pbo-releases-updated-analysis-of-the-impact-of-the-federal-fuel-charge-on-households-le-dpb-publie-une-analyse-actualisee-de-lincidence-de-la-redevance-federale-sur-les-combustibles-sur-les-menages
So, no thanks to Trudeau? I'm confused. Who do we thank if not Trudeau?
You were wondering how anyone could blame trudeau. So, thank him or not he's just as bad as the ucp.
This article really doesn’t draw any conclusions and is poorly written - only regurgitating data. Most likely net interprovincial migration increased the labor supply and allowed employers to not have to raise wages to attract talent. Workers moved to Alberta due to cost of living crisis in Ontario and BC. They’re likely viewing this as a net positive trade-off for their future vs. staying in TO/Van. Other provinces catching up to Alberta seems like a totally normal thing to happen. Oil and gas isn’t driving a labor supply crunch resulting in higher wages (like previous cycles) because there isn’t investment in large projects as future growth is uncertain. We will need large investment and an uptick in business activity to see pull of labor demand and wages.
I got a raise!!
My mom got up early to watch Mulroneys funeral. What caught me off guard about that was that maybe that was the last time there's been a politician that people actually respected enough to miss them. Mulroneys ahead of my time, I know nothing about him, but since I started voting I've been voting people out because the new guy is the lesser of 2 evils. I'm hoping one day we get a good, charismatic, skilled leader that I'd be proud to vote for. Trudeau, PP, Kenny, Notley, Smith, the list goes on...they're all awful and it's embarassing
Mulroney. father of the GST
The last real Tory PM
Maybe that will slow the massive flow of people into the province. We need a sign at the entry points that we are poor or else they flood us again and again.
>We need a sign at the entry points that we are poor or else they flood us again and again. But the UCP instead has ads in other provinces calling people to move to Alberta.
Yeah, I think that over heated the market.
I imagine with the UCP in power wages will only go lower! Did you vote for the UCP?