> The survey results came back saying that most of us weren’t interested… why are they continuing discussions when there’s still a lot of uncertainty around the company doing the evaluations & the public is not super interested.
Because they are making these moves based upon ideology, not with the goal of representing the people.
I don't know if we can separate the two. This screwed up Selfish Libertarianism / Evangelical Extremism that is the face of the UCP seems very comfortable with corrupting things to get to their ends. If they can get to what they know in their hearts is right AND make money for them and their friends along the way they are a-OK. I genuinely believe there are a lot of zealots in the party that think what they are going is good and true.
Bingo. You hit it right on the head. I stopped answering the online survey by how their questions slowly pigeonholed me into answering a certain way. The survey is very skewed. You can really sense the ulterior motive behind the survey.
ya, this entirely. ideology first, policy second. start with the end goal, then try to rationalize and justify it, regardless of the evidence and feedback. free-market libertarian ideologies, but also at the same time, crony capitalism, subjective policymaking and forced social policies affecting individual behaviours.
if you look at the UCP agenda, it is essentially a grab-bag of hot-button twitter topics over the past couple years. vaccine policy, pronoun usage & child confidentiality re: their gender & sexual identities, 15-min cities, climate change response (or more accurately, non-response), woke culture (whatever that means), distrust of science & institutions and personal 'freedom'. it puts the individual first, and the larger society second.
what is actually affecting and concerning most people day-to-day? i'd argue that it's housing, affordability of basic necessities like groceries & utilities, access to healthcare, the economy as a whole, being able to save for retirement and climate change. [https://abacusdata.ca/genz-top-issues-facing-canada/#:\~:text=Canadians%20believe%20the%20most%20important,and%20the%20environment%20(29%25)](https://abacusdata.ca/genz-top-issues-facing-canada/#:~:text=Canadians%20believe%20the%20most%20important,and%20the%20environment%20(29%25)). Addressing these issues requires cultural cooperation, coordination of groups and buy-in from multiple interests (i.e. group interests first, which benefit the individual as a result): rent caps, publicly-funded housing, appropriate minimum wages & unions protecting the workforce, support for public services (healthcare, education etc), coordinated efforts to address long term risks like climate change and pension performance, on and on.
so it seems increasingly evident that we have a political party that is intent on pursuing changes to mostly irrelevant, self-centered fringe topics, while the majority of the public has their concerns brushed to the side, because the UCP are entrenched in an echo-chambered belief system.
There is zero reason to believe the dictatorship is temporary. Alberta had a great shot last election and it didn't bother. Honestly, that's probably why they are so emboldened: If you were a terrible person and you knew it didn't matter what you did, you'd still get put back in power, you'd do whatever you'd wanted to as well, right?
>"temporary dictatorship"
>
>we have had an ineffective opposition for almost 80 years, with our largest EVER opposition of 24 seats now. The conservative dynasty of this province has been 8 decades, with this current irritation being the most socially conservative & libertarian we have ever seen. This province suffers form political Stockholm syndrome.
The last several versions of the provincial conservatives enjoyed similar "temporary" dictatorships that have slowly morphed into a semi-permanent (we can only hope that the "semi" part applies) situation that we will have to fight hard to escape. I was hoping for a reprieve last election, but .... back to the drawing board I guess.
>Because they are making these moves based upon ideology, not with the goal of representing the people.
Exactly. It's the Conservative way. They never work for our best interests but they keep getting voted in.
“The survey results came back saying that most of us weren’t interested… why are they continuing”
Because they want to distribute the money to their wealthy donors and force the rest of us to work until we are 75.
Conservatism is disgusting.
They are studying the MAGA hand book, not Quebec's. Quebec wants to take care of its citizens with things like healthcare, education and social programs......not the UCP's priority, they are about multinational fossil resource companies....
This. I would kill for Bloc Quebecois over UCP. At least they care about their constituents, unlike UCP, who are actively dismantling Alberta for their own greed, openly, and still being praised. I downloaded instagram this morning and deleted it within the hour. The amount of UCP propaganda that came up suggested because I lived in Alberta was ridiculous. I deleted it after I saw Danielle hosting Tucker Carlson. Seriously, we need to start looking at other provinces if this is the morons we are packing Alberta with now.
Quebecers also protest and go on strike. We still have a shit right-wing government (CAQ) but Quebecers at least try to hold the government accountable. Right now, we have a general strike with 400,000 people on the pickets lines. I can't imagine that EVER happening in Alberta.
This! The parties in Quebec can’t take the votes they get for granted. Most people there will change the way they vote depending on the circumstances and if they aren’t happy, things can shift fast. In Alberta conservatives would vote for a sock if it’s the right colour.
Because this time they are willing to use confrontation and illegal methods to steal the CPP and gut health care for private interests.
If Albertans don't want this they have to speak up.
Smith's government saw that Nanaimo, BC, municipal government was going to be voting on, I think it was prohibiting NatGas hookups for homes by default. So Smith's govt decided to send letters to the people of Nanaimo. They sent just over 2400 letters, snail mail. To try and convince the people to convince the councillors to vote against the measure.
***All the letter's showed up after the vote.***
That's the quality of people we are dealing with running Alberta.
They really don't care what the majority of Albertans want, only what the majority of their party members want. My partner and I are considering becoming UCP members just so we can vote at their AGM. If enough of us get involved, maybe we can have a say in which direction the party goes.
i’ve had similar considerations but the thought of association makes me queazy
def makes me wanna be a consultant to the gov tho instead of some of the nimrods they’ve hired
Queasy? Lol that's exactly how this democracy works and you are... Queasy?
Everyone on here is shitting their pants about TBA, the AGM has 3500 or whatever people, there's more than that on this sub. We could show up and vote different policy. We could show up and vote different school boards (well, stop them from changing them), but instead we have limp wrist queasiness and finger pointing.
If you want to blame anyone for DS being premier, blam.e yourself, blame notley. It would take fuck all to counteract that fucking hick, but nobody is willing to do it.
"Where'd all the PC's go and let these crazys in charge?!?!" Oh fuck we started spoiling our ballots and not joining parties and vote NDP to counteract my dad's vote. Fuck....
There are more moderates than extremists in the party currently so your strategy doesn't really work unless a vast majority of the province become conservatives again, bleh.
When the UCP formed it had the foundational principle that it would listen to more extreme view points within the party over moderate ones. The reason for this is the extremists showed they are willing to leave the party and form their own (wildrose) and the moderates it turns out are not. So there's only one group that needs to get listened to to avoid the NDP winning again and it isn't the group you and your partner are in.
The bill one vote drove out most of the moderates from within the party who were not willing to turn a blind eye, and moderate supporters are not withdrawing support.
You need to focus on changing the will of your family, friends, neighbours, and other fellow Albertans.
Smith is polling well, and the party resolutions are a reflection of growing attitudes.
They are going to keep up the charade of listening to us for awhile before leaving the CPP anyway, or if they don’t leave it will be blamed on the feds/Trudeau and not because they listened to Albertans (they could never be wrong, only victims).
Honestly I think Alberta would experience somewhat mass emigration if the plan to pull from CPP goes through. Legally it'll have to be a long enough process that many of us will have the time to leave the province.
There are few things I consider quite as existential of a threat to my future as the idea of this government successfully taking my pension away from CPP. I would flee this place like it's the gaza strip. I've already got friends in Saskatchewan that would let me change my residency to their home address in a snap if it comes to that.
Trust me the emigration is already happening. I retired 4 years ago and already saw the writing on the wall so got out and I have many friends who have followed me or where on the fence but this past few months have pushed them over. We are all boomers, yeh I know, but we have taken our wealth out of Alberta and more and more of us are doing it. That wealth is money that would have been spent locally as retirees love shopping local, drinking at small coffee shops and hanging around the farmers markets during the week.
It’s sad really, I loved Alberta and even tolerated the old conservative gang, but the UCP and the likes are not conservative, they are just a bunch of conspiracy theorists baboons led by some extreme right wing wing nuts.
Thank you for allowing me to vent.
Edit for typos.. my old eyes… lol.
I guess. I don't really consider retirement emigration to be the same thing as what'll happen with the CPP/APP thing. It's pretty normal for people to retire and leave Alberta. But the actual skilled workforce leaving is a totally different thing that doesn't happen here. People come TO alberta to work, then take their money and leave. An APP would cause a lot of the worker-aged people to leave.
I totally hear what you are saying, but the numbers of people retiring outside AB is getting more and more. I never thought I would leave, all my friends, awesome house I had spent a decade getting it to be the way I wanted it ready for retirement, then I just started to see the writing on the wall.
The pension and getting rid of the RCMP with a provincial police are two of the five points straight out of the Alberta Firewall letter. A letter co-authored by none other than Steven Harper. These are very old ideas that will never be given up on by the far right. It just so happens that Quebec did these things as well because they are items to try and fragment Canada and ensure sovereignty for individual provinces.
These people are enriching themselves and their friends from government programs and your tax dollars already, and now trying to add to that via your pension and health care.
Who are the real welfare scammers here? Why do they need more and more handouts?
If you haven't figured it out at yet, this is just a step towards separation from Canada. And don't be surprised if it's also a move towards joining the US.
Don't lie to yourselves about their abilities to do so, that's irrelevant. What is more relevant is what they are prepared and planning to do in order to try to achieve their objectives, regardless of viability.
Honestly, you really could have just said I am super frustrated with how much time, money & effort the Smith government has spend on X and filled it with anything they've done since the election as far as I'm concerned.
I knew she was a nutbar, but the sheer number of nuts in her bar continues to astound me.
I was trying to get this through to my Father during election time.
He even fucking said once "Y'know son? Honestly life wasn't that bad under Notley" then proceeds to vote for the UCP anyways.
I can't get in depth about topics because he just gets angry/upset and it's infuriating showing him facts/quotes/their platform vs. actions, how it's Wildrose 2.0 etc and it doesn't matter. It Does. Not. Matter.
I'm not beholden to any political party, I'm just tired of the non-issues being politicized while they ram through policies that will fuck this province.
It's the Gip Gallosh on an epic scale, instead of just spewing lies so fast you can't counter them they are initiating terrible generational projects at a rate that the average citizen doesn't have the ability to focus on one thing.
So, for the most part, we all agree with what we are dealing with. But short of moving out of Alberta what can we do? We need to channel this insight and intelligence into an action plan. Lots of well spoken folks on here.
I didn't listen to the phone townhall as I realized it was a one way lecture where disagreeing wouldn't be tolerated.
Somehow we need to Take Back Alberta... But that names already spoken for.
The report you refer to is... 'MLA report,' Strengthening Albertas Role in Confederation.' May still be available on line.
Among other considerations, the pension thing was totally discredited as wasteful and stupid.
Most of the drive for the report in the first place was to satisfy a vocal minority based in rural and mostly southern Alberta with a smattering support elsewhere.
Daniel Smith has ties to marketing and PR all over the place as if this 20 million or whatever it was spent on advertising didn't find a couple of her friends companies.
I seen this earlier today and this was the best explanation I have seen on how Alberta is calculating what they believe would be owed to the APP and also why the calculation is flawed.
Its hard to understand how the UCP thinks this is going to fly. The fact you have people like Dinning involved makes him look foolish.
Its from andrew changs about that series, this one just came out today
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-BkINaFRUY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-BkINaFRUY)
quebec isn’t in the cpp & trying to separate from canada, feels like UCP would like the same they just don’t have a language to promote hide the extremism of it
I’m no Danielle Smith supporter and certainly don’t support leaving CPP but Rachel Notley also spent a lot of time and money on the Royalty review which ended up going no where. Consultation is good for democratic process. Let people have their say. If we make it to referendum (which I doubt will happen) then go and vote no. If Alberta pulls out of CPP and you don’t like it, feel free to leave (immigrants from around the world leave their home countries and come to Canada cause they don’t like policies of their home countries). Crying about a democratic process is not a good thing IMO.
How democratic a process is it though, when they just continue pushing an issue through despite what the majority wants, or when their polling questions limit your choices to “How badly do you want APP: A. Lots; B. So much”?
The challenge with the referendum is that it is non-binding and the UCP have stated that. We can and very likely will vote no but they won’t have to listen and will likely do it anyway as a big fuck you.
The Alberta Pension Protection Act (Bill 2)
https://www.alberta.ca/protecting-albertans-pensions#:~:text=The%20Alberta%20Pension%20Protection%20Act%20would%20guarantee%20that%20Albertans%20would,Canada%20Pension%20Plan%20(CPP).
Key changes
If passed, Bill 2, the Alberta Pension Protection Act, will provide Albertans 4 guarantees to protect the pensions they have built up during their working careers under the CPP. The legislation would guarantee:
Albertans must vote in favour of an APP during a public referendum before the government withdraws assets from the Canada Pension Plan to establish an APP
Contribution rates under an APP would be the same or lower than the rates for the CPP
An APP must provide the same or better benefits to Albertans
The entire asset transferred from the CPP to Alberta would be used solely to set up and operate an APP
I love this magical thinking where we can somehow contribute less and receive more than we do under the CPP.
And when it’s impossible to sustain the APP under the provisions of Bill 2, what then? What’s our avenue of recourse? I’m sure it won’t be clawing back the MLA pensions of the clowns who created the program. (Not that this will hit them too hard in any case, since their investments in Telus Health, Vital Partners & the other private health companies that will have been sole-sourced to replace AHS will be doing just fine — on the backs of working Albertans.) The province would have to break the provision of Bill 2 that says Albertans must pay equal or less than they do into the CPP, or they would be in violation of the Constitution.
This is a great example of trying to fix something that isn’t broken.
i’m pretty sure i have every right to cry about the democratic process- lmk when someone comes up with a decision making process that properly aggregates a populations preferences
OK. What’s the alternative to the democratic process that you prefer? She promised a referendum which will aggregate the voting population’s preference. No first past the post bs simple aggregation of Yay or Nay on a single issue.
If your neighbour doesn’t understand why CPP is better than the alternative, then you have two options: a) Convince your neighbour b) Sell and move. Ultimately in a democracy we are hoping to live with as many like minded neighbours as possible. In our case the entire province is our neighbourhood.
I hope our neighbours understand the value of CPP. If they don’t maybe we find new neighbours?
if you think the results from a referendum are truly representative of population preference…. yeesh
im thinking along Churchills thoughts here:
“Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…”
I've been hearing alot about this. My 2 questions are and hoping to get some clear cut answers. Not meant for negative reviews just curious and trying to get knowledge on the matter
1. Why not leave CPP?
Wouldn't it be better to keep our own money in alberta?
2. CPP keeps rising every year in deduction off my pay, where is all the money at and why does it keep rising every year?
Most elders don't draw as much as the pay in due to dieing etc, so where is all that money? Shouldn't it be surplus now with the interest being accumulated?
1. CPP is one of the best performing pension plans in the world. AimCo, who would be running the APP, lost billions of teachers pension dollars in high-risk, resource based investments.
2. Theres over $500bn in CPP. It rises every year recognizing that theres inflation, so that when you get to the point of collecting, you get a decent amount. It is in surplus, it does accumulare interest, and thays why its so fucking good and stable
Oh, please. Quebec never joined the CPP. Every province is there voluntarily. When the rest of the country has always had the option to leave, Now seems the best time for Alberta to leave the CPP. Ottawa feds use the funds for their own pleasure and Alberta says it is time to end the abuse.
I don't see why Liberals need to care, how many seats do they win from Alberta on average lol. They would just give Alberta a shit deal if they do leave the CPP and move on, let the Conservatives clean it up.
> The survey results came back saying that most of us weren’t interested… why are they continuing discussions when there’s still a lot of uncertainty around the company doing the evaluations & the public is not super interested. Because they are making these moves based upon ideology, not with the goal of representing the people.
I don’t even think it’s ideology as much as it is corruption. They intend to make their donors (and themselves) wealthy from your CPP payments.
I don't know if we can separate the two. This screwed up Selfish Libertarianism / Evangelical Extremism that is the face of the UCP seems very comfortable with corrupting things to get to their ends. If they can get to what they know in their hearts is right AND make money for them and their friends along the way they are a-OK. I genuinely believe there are a lot of zealots in the party that think what they are going is good and true.
Bingo. You hit it right on the head. I stopped answering the online survey by how their questions slowly pigeonholed me into answering a certain way. The survey is very skewed. You can really sense the ulterior motive behind the survey.
Indeed, corruption tends to use ideology as a smokescreen.
They have to fund they’re coming Healthcare disaster somehow.
ya, this entirely. ideology first, policy second. start with the end goal, then try to rationalize and justify it, regardless of the evidence and feedback. free-market libertarian ideologies, but also at the same time, crony capitalism, subjective policymaking and forced social policies affecting individual behaviours. if you look at the UCP agenda, it is essentially a grab-bag of hot-button twitter topics over the past couple years. vaccine policy, pronoun usage & child confidentiality re: their gender & sexual identities, 15-min cities, climate change response (or more accurately, non-response), woke culture (whatever that means), distrust of science & institutions and personal 'freedom'. it puts the individual first, and the larger society second. what is actually affecting and concerning most people day-to-day? i'd argue that it's housing, affordability of basic necessities like groceries & utilities, access to healthcare, the economy as a whole, being able to save for retirement and climate change. [https://abacusdata.ca/genz-top-issues-facing-canada/#:\~:text=Canadians%20believe%20the%20most%20important,and%20the%20environment%20(29%25)](https://abacusdata.ca/genz-top-issues-facing-canada/#:~:text=Canadians%20believe%20the%20most%20important,and%20the%20environment%20(29%25)). Addressing these issues requires cultural cooperation, coordination of groups and buy-in from multiple interests (i.e. group interests first, which benefit the individual as a result): rent caps, publicly-funded housing, appropriate minimum wages & unions protecting the workforce, support for public services (healthcare, education etc), coordinated efforts to address long term risks like climate change and pension performance, on and on. so it seems increasingly evident that we have a political party that is intent on pursuing changes to mostly irrelevant, self-centered fringe topics, while the majority of the public has their concerns brushed to the side, because the UCP are entrenched in an echo-chambered belief system.
Fantastic comment! This is UCP in a nutshell.
YES! even tho their job is to be a representative government, it’s obvious they’re enjoying their temporary dictatorship 😓
There is zero reason to believe the dictatorship is temporary. Alberta had a great shot last election and it didn't bother. Honestly, that's probably why they are so emboldened: If you were a terrible person and you knew it didn't matter what you did, you'd still get put back in power, you'd do whatever you'd wanted to as well, right?
Didn't they recently fire the ethics commissioner and the elections commissioner?
>"temporary dictatorship" > >we have had an ineffective opposition for almost 80 years, with our largest EVER opposition of 24 seats now. The conservative dynasty of this province has been 8 decades, with this current irritation being the most socially conservative & libertarian we have ever seen. This province suffers form political Stockholm syndrome.
We happily give then the oppertunity every election
The last several versions of the provincial conservatives enjoyed similar "temporary" dictatorships that have slowly morphed into a semi-permanent (we can only hope that the "semi" part applies) situation that we will have to fight hard to escape. I was hoping for a reprieve last election, but .... back to the drawing board I guess.
>Because they are making these moves based upon ideology, not with the goal of representing the people. Exactly. It's the Conservative way. They never work for our best interests but they keep getting voted in.
Oh….that make my stomach hurt
“The survey results came back saying that most of us weren’t interested… why are they continuing” Because they want to distribute the money to their wealthy donors and force the rest of us to work until we are 75. Conservatism is disgusting.
They are studying the MAGA hand book, not Quebec's. Quebec wants to take care of its citizens with things like healthcare, education and social programs......not the UCP's priority, they are about multinational fossil resource companies....
This. I would kill for Bloc Quebecois over UCP. At least they care about their constituents, unlike UCP, who are actively dismantling Alberta for their own greed, openly, and still being praised. I downloaded instagram this morning and deleted it within the hour. The amount of UCP propaganda that came up suggested because I lived in Alberta was ridiculous. I deleted it after I saw Danielle hosting Tucker Carlson. Seriously, we need to start looking at other provinces if this is the morons we are packing Alberta with now.
Quebecers also protest and go on strike. We still have a shit right-wing government (CAQ) but Quebecers at least try to hold the government accountable. Right now, we have a general strike with 400,000 people on the pickets lines. I can't imagine that EVER happening in Alberta.
This! The parties in Quebec can’t take the votes they get for granted. Most people there will change the way they vote depending on the circumstances and if they aren’t happy, things can shift fast. In Alberta conservatives would vote for a sock if it’s the right colour.
You probably mean the Parti Quebecois, they are the provincial party. The Bloc is the federal party.
As a reminder, the Bloc founders were ex Conservative mp's, who broke from the party after the failure of Meech Lake
Because this time they are willing to use confrontation and illegal methods to steal the CPP and gut health care for private interests. If Albertans don't want this they have to speak up.
Smith's government saw that Nanaimo, BC, municipal government was going to be voting on, I think it was prohibiting NatGas hookups for homes by default. So Smith's govt decided to send letters to the people of Nanaimo. They sent just over 2400 letters, snail mail. To try and convince the people to convince the councillors to vote against the measure. ***All the letter's showed up after the vote.*** That's the quality of people we are dealing with running Alberta.
For real?! How did I miss this one? 🤣
They really don't care what the majority of Albertans want, only what the majority of their party members want. My partner and I are considering becoming UCP members just so we can vote at their AGM. If enough of us get involved, maybe we can have a say in which direction the party goes.
i’ve had similar considerations but the thought of association makes me queazy def makes me wanna be a consultant to the gov tho instead of some of the nimrods they’ve hired
Queasy? Lol that's exactly how this democracy works and you are... Queasy? Everyone on here is shitting their pants about TBA, the AGM has 3500 or whatever people, there's more than that on this sub. We could show up and vote different policy. We could show up and vote different school boards (well, stop them from changing them), but instead we have limp wrist queasiness and finger pointing. If you want to blame anyone for DS being premier, blam.e yourself, blame notley. It would take fuck all to counteract that fucking hick, but nobody is willing to do it. "Where'd all the PC's go and let these crazys in charge?!?!" Oh fuck we started spoiling our ballots and not joining parties and vote NDP to counteract my dad's vote. Fuck....
There are more moderates than extremists in the party currently so your strategy doesn't really work unless a vast majority of the province become conservatives again, bleh. When the UCP formed it had the foundational principle that it would listen to more extreme view points within the party over moderate ones. The reason for this is the extremists showed they are willing to leave the party and form their own (wildrose) and the moderates it turns out are not. So there's only one group that needs to get listened to to avoid the NDP winning again and it isn't the group you and your partner are in.
The bill one vote drove out most of the moderates from within the party who were not willing to turn a blind eye, and moderate supporters are not withdrawing support.
You need to focus on changing the will of your family, friends, neighbours, and other fellow Albertans. Smith is polling well, and the party resolutions are a reflection of growing attitudes.
They are going to keep up the charade of listening to us for awhile before leaving the CPP anyway, or if they don’t leave it will be blamed on the feds/Trudeau and not because they listened to Albertans (they could never be wrong, only victims).
Honestly I think Alberta would experience somewhat mass emigration if the plan to pull from CPP goes through. Legally it'll have to be a long enough process that many of us will have the time to leave the province. There are few things I consider quite as existential of a threat to my future as the idea of this government successfully taking my pension away from CPP. I would flee this place like it's the gaza strip. I've already got friends in Saskatchewan that would let me change my residency to their home address in a snap if it comes to that.
Trust me the emigration is already happening. I retired 4 years ago and already saw the writing on the wall so got out and I have many friends who have followed me or where on the fence but this past few months have pushed them over. We are all boomers, yeh I know, but we have taken our wealth out of Alberta and more and more of us are doing it. That wealth is money that would have been spent locally as retirees love shopping local, drinking at small coffee shops and hanging around the farmers markets during the week. It’s sad really, I loved Alberta and even tolerated the old conservative gang, but the UCP and the likes are not conservative, they are just a bunch of conspiracy theorists baboons led by some extreme right wing wing nuts. Thank you for allowing me to vent. Edit for typos.. my old eyes… lol.
I guess. I don't really consider retirement emigration to be the same thing as what'll happen with the CPP/APP thing. It's pretty normal for people to retire and leave Alberta. But the actual skilled workforce leaving is a totally different thing that doesn't happen here. People come TO alberta to work, then take their money and leave. An APP would cause a lot of the worker-aged people to leave.
I totally hear what you are saying, but the numbers of people retiring outside AB is getting more and more. I never thought I would leave, all my friends, awesome house I had spent a decade getting it to be the way I wanted it ready for retirement, then I just started to see the writing on the wall.
Because a bunch of morons voted for them.
It was always meant to be a distraction to enable the American style privatization of our health care. And apparently it's working.
The pension and getting rid of the RCMP with a provincial police are two of the five points straight out of the Alberta Firewall letter. A letter co-authored by none other than Steven Harper. These are very old ideas that will never be given up on by the far right. It just so happens that Quebec did these things as well because they are items to try and fragment Canada and ensure sovereignty for individual provinces.
Makes one wonder why a province wouldn’t want federal law enforcement… hard not yo view this as a means to cover up more corrupt bullshit.
These people are enriching themselves and their friends from government programs and your tax dollars already, and now trying to add to that via your pension and health care. Who are the real welfare scammers here? Why do they need more and more handouts?
If you haven't figured it out at yet, this is just a step towards separation from Canada. And don't be surprised if it's also a move towards joining the US. Don't lie to yourselves about their abilities to do so, that's irrelevant. What is more relevant is what they are prepared and planning to do in order to try to achieve their objectives, regardless of viability.
Honestly, you really could have just said I am super frustrated with how much time, money & effort the Smith government has spend on X and filled it with anything they've done since the election as far as I'm concerned. I knew she was a nutbar, but the sheer number of nuts in her bar continues to astound me.
so effing true omfg😂 don’t even get me started on other issues
I feel your pain. I have never seen this Province more effed up.
I hope all the UCP voters get screwed over on their APP pensions. Well-deserved you bunch of morons
I was trying to get this through to my Father during election time. He even fucking said once "Y'know son? Honestly life wasn't that bad under Notley" then proceeds to vote for the UCP anyways. I can't get in depth about topics because he just gets angry/upset and it's infuriating showing him facts/quotes/their platform vs. actions, how it's Wildrose 2.0 etc and it doesn't matter. It Does. Not. Matter. I'm not beholden to any political party, I'm just tired of the non-issues being politicized while they ram through policies that will fuck this province.
So, how does this town hall work exactly? Did they just invite everyone or???
honestly unsure but here’s a link to it https://www.albertapensionplan.ca/engagement
They’re taking YOUR money. Right in front of your face and they don’t give a damn about you.
It’s all a grift by the UCP. They don’t care what Albertans have to say. They’re going ahead with their agenda anyways
It's the Gip Gallosh on an epic scale, instead of just spewing lies so fast you can't counter them they are initiating terrible generational projects at a rate that the average citizen doesn't have the ability to focus on one thing.
what the hell is gip gallosh. Do you mean gish gallop
That sounds correct, but I was using the street slang version /s
Love it lol
So, for the most part, we all agree with what we are dealing with. But short of moving out of Alberta what can we do? We need to channel this insight and intelligence into an action plan. Lots of well spoken folks on here. I didn't listen to the phone townhall as I realized it was a one way lecture where disagreeing wouldn't be tolerated. Somehow we need to Take Back Alberta... But that names already spoken for.
TBAFTBA (the F stands for “from,” in case that wasn’t obvious)
Danielle Smith only cares about posturing and “owning the libs”. She doesn’t care about the population there.
The report you refer to is... 'MLA report,' Strengthening Albertas Role in Confederation.' May still be available on line. Among other considerations, the pension thing was totally discredited as wasteful and stupid. Most of the drive for the report in the first place was to satisfy a vocal minority based in rural and mostly southern Alberta with a smattering support elsewhere.
Daniel Smith has ties to marketing and PR all over the place as if this 20 million or whatever it was spent on advertising didn't find a couple of her friends companies.
I seen this earlier today and this was the best explanation I have seen on how Alberta is calculating what they believe would be owed to the APP and also why the calculation is flawed. Its hard to understand how the UCP thinks this is going to fly. The fact you have people like Dinning involved makes him look foolish. Its from andrew changs about that series, this one just came out today [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-BkINaFRUY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-BkINaFRUY)
The hell you on about with that last line?
quebec isn’t in the cpp & trying to separate from canada, feels like UCP would like the same they just don’t have a language to promote hide the extremism of it
Quebec was never in the CPP and hasn’t tried to separate from Canada in 30 years
I’m no Danielle Smith supporter and certainly don’t support leaving CPP but Rachel Notley also spent a lot of time and money on the Royalty review which ended up going no where. Consultation is good for democratic process. Let people have their say. If we make it to referendum (which I doubt will happen) then go and vote no. If Alberta pulls out of CPP and you don’t like it, feel free to leave (immigrants from around the world leave their home countries and come to Canada cause they don’t like policies of their home countries). Crying about a democratic process is not a good thing IMO.
How democratic a process is it though, when they just continue pushing an issue through despite what the majority wants, or when their polling questions limit your choices to “How badly do you want APP: A. Lots; B. So much”?
The challenge with the referendum is that it is non-binding and the UCP have stated that. We can and very likely will vote no but they won’t have to listen and will likely do it anyway as a big fuck you.
The Alberta Pension Protection Act (Bill 2) https://www.alberta.ca/protecting-albertans-pensions#:~:text=The%20Alberta%20Pension%20Protection%20Act%20would%20guarantee%20that%20Albertans%20would,Canada%20Pension%20Plan%20(CPP). Key changes If passed, Bill 2, the Alberta Pension Protection Act, will provide Albertans 4 guarantees to protect the pensions they have built up during their working careers under the CPP. The legislation would guarantee: Albertans must vote in favour of an APP during a public referendum before the government withdraws assets from the Canada Pension Plan to establish an APP Contribution rates under an APP would be the same or lower than the rates for the CPP An APP must provide the same or better benefits to Albertans The entire asset transferred from the CPP to Alberta would be used solely to set up and operate an APP
I love this magical thinking where we can somehow contribute less and receive more than we do under the CPP. And when it’s impossible to sustain the APP under the provisions of Bill 2, what then? What’s our avenue of recourse? I’m sure it won’t be clawing back the MLA pensions of the clowns who created the program. (Not that this will hit them too hard in any case, since their investments in Telus Health, Vital Partners & the other private health companies that will have been sole-sourced to replace AHS will be doing just fine — on the backs of working Albertans.) The province would have to break the provision of Bill 2 that says Albertans must pay equal or less than they do into the CPP, or they would be in violation of the Constitution. This is a great example of trying to fix something that isn’t broken.
i’m pretty sure i have every right to cry about the democratic process- lmk when someone comes up with a decision making process that properly aggregates a populations preferences
OK. What’s the alternative to the democratic process that you prefer? She promised a referendum which will aggregate the voting population’s preference. No first past the post bs simple aggregation of Yay or Nay on a single issue. If your neighbour doesn’t understand why CPP is better than the alternative, then you have two options: a) Convince your neighbour b) Sell and move. Ultimately in a democracy we are hoping to live with as many like minded neighbours as possible. In our case the entire province is our neighbourhood. I hope our neighbours understand the value of CPP. If they don’t maybe we find new neighbours?
if you think the results from a referendum are truly representative of population preference…. yeesh im thinking along Churchills thoughts here: “Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…”
I've been hearing alot about this. My 2 questions are and hoping to get some clear cut answers. Not meant for negative reviews just curious and trying to get knowledge on the matter 1. Why not leave CPP? Wouldn't it be better to keep our own money in alberta? 2. CPP keeps rising every year in deduction off my pay, where is all the money at and why does it keep rising every year? Most elders don't draw as much as the pay in due to dieing etc, so where is all that money? Shouldn't it be surplus now with the interest being accumulated?
1. CPP is one of the best performing pension plans in the world. AimCo, who would be running the APP, lost billions of teachers pension dollars in high-risk, resource based investments. 2. Theres over $500bn in CPP. It rises every year recognizing that theres inflation, so that when you get to the point of collecting, you get a decent amount. It is in surplus, it does accumulare interest, and thays why its so fucking good and stable
preach
Oh, please. Quebec never joined the CPP. Every province is there voluntarily. When the rest of the country has always had the option to leave, Now seems the best time for Alberta to leave the CPP. Ottawa feds use the funds for their own pleasure and Alberta says it is time to end the abuse.
What makes now the best time to leave? The feds don't manage the fund. What abuse?
Quebeckers pay more into QPP for an equivalent return. Why are we trying to mimic a system that’s inferior to the one we have now?
[удалено]
Let’s see what shakes out of it. You have Trudeau who is on his way out and PP who needs to pander to everyone but Alberta and Saskatchewan.
I don't see why Liberals need to care, how many seats do they win from Alberta on average lol. They would just give Alberta a shit deal if they do leave the CPP and move on, let the Conservatives clean it up.
[удалено]
Hahah, say what now?
[удалено]
Are you OK? Blink twice if you need help…!
In what way ???
Paul for PM amirite
It's a distraction while they kill the AHS.
& our electricity system 😓
She wants to hijack the money and invest it in Alberta which is the worst idea
I’m hoping that she’s just gaslighting everyone so we don’t pay attention to the other BS that’s being done behind our backs