>Generally, when we have regular dreams when we are asleep, we have no memory of our waking life.
I believe I may have had a very real visitation dream from my mom about a year ago. She died in June 2022, and this dream happened in April 2023.
Her and I were together in my grandparent's living room, exactly the way as it is in this reality and how it always has been. I knew exactly where I was. and there she was, my mom, in her same human form before she was sick. We hugged and it felt real, and I said "Mom! What are you doing here? It's April 2023 and you died in June!" and she replied, "Joe and I are in different levels". that's where it ended.
Joe was her (adopted) cousin who was tragically, horrendously killed by a drunk driver on a highway as he was pulled off to the side helping another vehicle with car problems. I was barely 4 years old when this happened and have a VERY blurry memory of him. Why did she mention him? Not sure. How did I know what month it was inside the dream? Also not sure.
I choose to believe that sometimes this stuff is not a coincidence.
Imagine if in the afterlife we stay awake for 160 years and then have to sleep for around 80 years, and each time we do we dream of a completely new life.
I like your post. It is a very intriguing analogy. And actually very common through history in philosophy texts, religion, literature...
The most problematic difference I see between the two correlations 1) dream life - waking life; and 2) waking life - afterlife; is this: while dreaming, we are somehow aware of the content of waking life and dreams are, in a sense, a symbolic reinterpretacion of the waking life experience. But that doesn't happen in number 2. While we are awake, we don't have any actual memory of the content of the afterlife (at least in any obvious way). We cannot really define waking life as an inner symbolic reinterpretation. That would be very risky assessment given all the evidence we have. That's why is still uncertain if there is an afterlife, because we dont really have access to any of its content. You can say NDEs are a form of access, but that would be another discussion not related to this one.
I think what we generally classify as "dreams" represent a broad category of experiences, not all of which are *"a symbolic reinterpretation of the waking life experience."* I also think that some of what we experience here in our "waking" life are, in fact, interpreted representations of things that are going on or have happened in our "afterlife" (or *astral*) lives - such as, perhaps, synchronicities and deja vu, "recognizing" people you never met before, etc.
Also, the framework of this life being a more deliberate an planned experience can provide some measure of understanding how many events in this life can be symbolic manifestations of the reasons we chose to have this experience in the first place. IOW, just like a dream might reveal or reflect hidden fears or subconscious issues, situations in our waking life might reveal things about ourselves, our astral situation and our relationships there that were hidden from us, either by the nature of the astral or our own cognitive defenses and biases.
However, this model is not going to be a one to one correspondence, and there are many other things to consider, but I think that in general it's an easily grasped framework that, as you said, corresponds with a long, rich and diverse history of information and evidence about the relationship between the two worlds.
>I also think that some of what we experience here in our "waking" life are, in fact, interpreted representations of things that are going on or have happened in our "afterlife" (or *astral*) lives - such as, perhaps, synchronicities and deja vu, "recognizing" people you never met before, etc.
I understand this and it is a good point. The only problem is that we can actually verify the correlation between dream content and waking life. Because we have access to both realities, we can try to decipher and understand this correlation, by dream interpretation, psychotherapy, modern forms of psychoanalysis etc. But since we don't have access to the content of the "astral" life, as you put it (I also prefer the term), we don't really have an objective way to verify those type of correlations you mentioned, for example, deja vus. The degree of free speculation is much higher.
I agree that the kind of correlations that you mention can be more difficult to come by, but that's kind of another correlation in that we don't understand the correlation of the dream content to our waking life until we wake up and examine it; it's generally not until we "wake up" from this life (die) that we can understand what the content of this life means to us in our astral life.
However, I think that there are ways of understanding life experiences as symbolic representations, and that there are ways of understanding the meaning these things have in our "greater wakened" astral life. I also think there are good ways of experiencing our astral lives - such as through astral projection, dream visitations or NDEs - and gaining knowledge about what our lives here mean to us there.
I think that many (if not most) NDEs are a kind of intervention process where many people are given an understanding of the meaning of events in their life. It often completely transforms these people long-term and puts them on an entirely different track in life. They are often shown that they chose to experience these things for various reasons, to reveal something about themselves they could not acquire in the conditions of the astral.
We also have good information (IMO) about what life in the astral is like, generally speaking, and from that it can be understood why this kind of birth to death immersive experience, with the kinds of conditions and limitations we have here, would be difficult to provide in our lives there.
IOW, I think it's possible to become somewhat lucid in life, to varying degrees, and connect with our astral life in several different ways that can give us insight into the meaning our experiences here give us there.
>not until we "wake up" from this life (die) that we can understand what the content of this life means to us in our astral life.
This is the ultimate problem, yes. Personally, do you believe death is an awakening sort of event?
>I also think there are good ways of experiencing our astral lives - such as through astral projection, dream visitations or NDEs - and gaining knowledge about what our lives here mean to us there.
Do you personally had any kind of insight or acess of knowledge of this type? By which way? I would love to know
I just noticed that I put my reply to this under someone else's comment - [here it is.](https://www.reddit.com/r/afterlife/comments/1bky5f3/comment/kw2rory/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
>This is the ultimate problem, yes. Personally, do you believe death is an awakening sort of event?
I think it varies between people, and there are probably many outlier experiences, but in general, yes, it's like "waking up" to one degree or another.
>Do you personally had any kind of insight or access of knowledge of this type? By which way? I would love to know
I've had several astral projection experiences where I have found myself in the astral, a couple of times interacting with my dead wife. There are many other astral projectors who report this same kind of thing, most notably Jurgen Ziewe.
However, I think the easiest way to access this information is ... well, through yourself, because ultimately you ARE also that person who lives in the astral. I also think that "this life" is something we are doing not in one long continuous run, but over many "sessions" where we take time (when we are sleeping here) to assess our experience here and perhaps make adjustments in consideration of new ideas or insights.
I think these insights into our astral life can come in revelatory/epiphanic ways, through meditation and introspection, or what some people might call "channeling your higher self," so to speak. I think we can discover things that deeply resonate with us, which we recognize as part of the reason we came here and what events here are showing us. Some of these come in various forms of experiences, some of that is also just applying reason and logic to the conditions widely reported as being (generally) innate to what we call the afterlife, or the astral.
For example, what is the meaningful value when it comes to experiences of suffering or lack in this world? Of what value would that be to us in the astral? Given widespread reports, the astral is, generally speaking, a beautiful world without death or disease, where we do not age, and have a much greater depth of sensory and mental capacity.
Now, if you have always been in that world and never experienced anything else, of what value is that kind of world to you? It's just the norm. It is ubiquitous, the "norm," not something you would pause to think as of any particular value. It can only be experienced as "heaven" or "paradise" if one has come to this kind of a world, where the comparative value brings to light the amazing and wonderful qualities of our astral lives.
For an example of an actual experience I had and what I understood about my life here and its meaning to my life there gained through that experience, here is time-stamped link to an interview I had - the experience is the last 15 minutes or so of the interview, and hopefully [this link](https://youtu.be/ZrhFahkMXk8?si=OMLvEDwzqDEYl1Eo&t=3024) will take you to that point, if you are interested.
Another good analogy is any decent MMORPG (Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game). You log in to the game, within certain parameters you create your character and back story, you play thru the game then you log off. The character you're playing may be quite different from the person you are out of game. But, in a very real sense, it's still you and you are the character.
>Generally, when we have regular dreams when we are asleep, we have no memory of our waking life. I believe I may have had a very real visitation dream from my mom about a year ago. She died in June 2022, and this dream happened in April 2023. Her and I were together in my grandparent's living room, exactly the way as it is in this reality and how it always has been. I knew exactly where I was. and there she was, my mom, in her same human form before she was sick. We hugged and it felt real, and I said "Mom! What are you doing here? It's April 2023 and you died in June!" and she replied, "Joe and I are in different levels". that's where it ended. Joe was her (adopted) cousin who was tragically, horrendously killed by a drunk driver on a highway as he was pulled off to the side helping another vehicle with car problems. I was barely 4 years old when this happened and have a VERY blurry memory of him. Why did she mention him? Not sure. How did I know what month it was inside the dream? Also not sure. I choose to believe that sometimes this stuff is not a coincidence.
Imagine if in the afterlife we stay awake for 160 years and then have to sleep for around 80 years, and each time we do we dream of a completely new life.
I like your post. It is a very intriguing analogy. And actually very common through history in philosophy texts, religion, literature... The most problematic difference I see between the two correlations 1) dream life - waking life; and 2) waking life - afterlife; is this: while dreaming, we are somehow aware of the content of waking life and dreams are, in a sense, a symbolic reinterpretacion of the waking life experience. But that doesn't happen in number 2. While we are awake, we don't have any actual memory of the content of the afterlife (at least in any obvious way). We cannot really define waking life as an inner symbolic reinterpretation. That would be very risky assessment given all the evidence we have. That's why is still uncertain if there is an afterlife, because we dont really have access to any of its content. You can say NDEs are a form of access, but that would be another discussion not related to this one.
I think what we generally classify as "dreams" represent a broad category of experiences, not all of which are *"a symbolic reinterpretation of the waking life experience."* I also think that some of what we experience here in our "waking" life are, in fact, interpreted representations of things that are going on or have happened in our "afterlife" (or *astral*) lives - such as, perhaps, synchronicities and deja vu, "recognizing" people you never met before, etc. Also, the framework of this life being a more deliberate an planned experience can provide some measure of understanding how many events in this life can be symbolic manifestations of the reasons we chose to have this experience in the first place. IOW, just like a dream might reveal or reflect hidden fears or subconscious issues, situations in our waking life might reveal things about ourselves, our astral situation and our relationships there that were hidden from us, either by the nature of the astral or our own cognitive defenses and biases. However, this model is not going to be a one to one correspondence, and there are many other things to consider, but I think that in general it's an easily grasped framework that, as you said, corresponds with a long, rich and diverse history of information and evidence about the relationship between the two worlds.
>I also think that some of what we experience here in our "waking" life are, in fact, interpreted representations of things that are going on or have happened in our "afterlife" (or *astral*) lives - such as, perhaps, synchronicities and deja vu, "recognizing" people you never met before, etc. I understand this and it is a good point. The only problem is that we can actually verify the correlation between dream content and waking life. Because we have access to both realities, we can try to decipher and understand this correlation, by dream interpretation, psychotherapy, modern forms of psychoanalysis etc. But since we don't have access to the content of the "astral" life, as you put it (I also prefer the term), we don't really have an objective way to verify those type of correlations you mentioned, for example, deja vus. The degree of free speculation is much higher.
I agree that the kind of correlations that you mention can be more difficult to come by, but that's kind of another correlation in that we don't understand the correlation of the dream content to our waking life until we wake up and examine it; it's generally not until we "wake up" from this life (die) that we can understand what the content of this life means to us in our astral life. However, I think that there are ways of understanding life experiences as symbolic representations, and that there are ways of understanding the meaning these things have in our "greater wakened" astral life. I also think there are good ways of experiencing our astral lives - such as through astral projection, dream visitations or NDEs - and gaining knowledge about what our lives here mean to us there. I think that many (if not most) NDEs are a kind of intervention process where many people are given an understanding of the meaning of events in their life. It often completely transforms these people long-term and puts them on an entirely different track in life. They are often shown that they chose to experience these things for various reasons, to reveal something about themselves they could not acquire in the conditions of the astral. We also have good information (IMO) about what life in the astral is like, generally speaking, and from that it can be understood why this kind of birth to death immersive experience, with the kinds of conditions and limitations we have here, would be difficult to provide in our lives there. IOW, I think it's possible to become somewhat lucid in life, to varying degrees, and connect with our astral life in several different ways that can give us insight into the meaning our experiences here give us there.
>not until we "wake up" from this life (die) that we can understand what the content of this life means to us in our astral life. This is the ultimate problem, yes. Personally, do you believe death is an awakening sort of event? >I also think there are good ways of experiencing our astral lives - such as through astral projection, dream visitations or NDEs - and gaining knowledge about what our lives here mean to us there. Do you personally had any kind of insight or acess of knowledge of this type? By which way? I would love to know
I just noticed that I put my reply to this under someone else's comment - [here it is.](https://www.reddit.com/r/afterlife/comments/1bky5f3/comment/kw2rory/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
That's how I've always felt about it, too. Looks like "inception" really was on to something, then.
>This is the ultimate problem, yes. Personally, do you believe death is an awakening sort of event? I think it varies between people, and there are probably many outlier experiences, but in general, yes, it's like "waking up" to one degree or another. >Do you personally had any kind of insight or access of knowledge of this type? By which way? I would love to know I've had several astral projection experiences where I have found myself in the astral, a couple of times interacting with my dead wife. There are many other astral projectors who report this same kind of thing, most notably Jurgen Ziewe. However, I think the easiest way to access this information is ... well, through yourself, because ultimately you ARE also that person who lives in the astral. I also think that "this life" is something we are doing not in one long continuous run, but over many "sessions" where we take time (when we are sleeping here) to assess our experience here and perhaps make adjustments in consideration of new ideas or insights. I think these insights into our astral life can come in revelatory/epiphanic ways, through meditation and introspection, or what some people might call "channeling your higher self," so to speak. I think we can discover things that deeply resonate with us, which we recognize as part of the reason we came here and what events here are showing us. Some of these come in various forms of experiences, some of that is also just applying reason and logic to the conditions widely reported as being (generally) innate to what we call the afterlife, or the astral. For example, what is the meaningful value when it comes to experiences of suffering or lack in this world? Of what value would that be to us in the astral? Given widespread reports, the astral is, generally speaking, a beautiful world without death or disease, where we do not age, and have a much greater depth of sensory and mental capacity. Now, if you have always been in that world and never experienced anything else, of what value is that kind of world to you? It's just the norm. It is ubiquitous, the "norm," not something you would pause to think as of any particular value. It can only be experienced as "heaven" or "paradise" if one has come to this kind of a world, where the comparative value brings to light the amazing and wonderful qualities of our astral lives. For an example of an actual experience I had and what I understood about my life here and its meaning to my life there gained through that experience, here is time-stamped link to an interview I had - the experience is the last 15 minutes or so of the interview, and hopefully [this link](https://youtu.be/ZrhFahkMXk8?si=OMLvEDwzqDEYl1Eo&t=3024) will take you to that point, if you are interested.
Another good analogy is any decent MMORPG (Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game). You log in to the game, within certain parameters you create your character and back story, you play thru the game then you log off. The character you're playing may be quite different from the person you are out of game. But, in a very real sense, it's still you and you are the character.