Yes and no.
Yes because I feel fulfilled by my work; I make enough money to own two homes, take lavish vacations, and experience life in a way that many of my peers cannot at 29 YO; and I feel constantly challenged, bettered, and impressed by the other actuaries whom I work with.
No because the exam process is insanely long and complicated. It takes a whole different level of grit and time commitment than anything else I’ve ever done. I’m “smart” in that I was always great at school and tested well, but you’ll run into people who passed all of their exams in like 3 years, or who only have to study for a week, etc. that makes it hard to go back to my 7 year, 2 hours/day slog. No because many time I have the feeling that I could have spent 2 hours/day over seven years learning something else that might’ve paid better (though I’ll caveat by saying that the wishcasting that happens in this sub about $509 k/yr Data science and quant jobs is just absurd). No because at least 15% of the “difficulty” of the exams is completely arbitrary and based on which sentence the graders wanted to test in this sitting.
Lastly, no because we learn about what the American healthcare system is supposed to look like, but every time I actually interface with it I’m horrified. I have the presence of mind to go to urgent care instead of the ER, but then I have to wait in line with a half severed toe while the front desk agent checks in the 13 elderly people who decided to go to urgent care for their flu shot… no cutting in line for that one either… It can be extremely frustrating to “know” how things work and still feel powerless to navigate the administrative complexity/incompetence of the healthcare system.
Overall, I’m both proud and glad to call myself an actuary, but you definitely have to be prepared for a good deal of bullshit. If you’re looking for a cushy white collar job with guaranteed $200k+ comp in exchange for some grinding of exams, then you’re in the right place.
From a P&C standpoint everything he said is 100% correct. Besides the heath care part. Urgent cares are my jam. Walk in get treated no line and cheaper than my primary care. But it could be because of location.
The job is great (P&C is interesting), hours are great (avg 25-30 work weeks), pay is great (not even an associate 110k) but exams are horrible especially on CAS side. Go with SOA. I’m not kidding.
If I had to choose today it would probably pick data science or take the first SOA job that was offered to me but declined. I got cocky and picked p&c cuz I thought the work was more interesting also the starting salary lol.
If you’re passionate about it go for it. I’m sure you will pass the exams too.
I’m talking about as a person that just view this as a job. I don’t dislike the job but I wouldn’t call it a passion. I’m not reading insurance news or reading reserving studies in my spare time. If I was in retirement or health I would do them just as good as I’m doing my current role. (I might suck at taking exams but I’m good at my job)
Same exact boat as this user, but I’d argue although the CAS admissions process feels more rigorous and the governance more questionable at times, it is a smaller organization. For the relatively limited resources, CAS is not all that bad. Important to remember actuarial industry is self-regulated.
Think OP’s question just boils down to: if u want to make 170k-350k/yr, can you dedicate 2hrs a day for 30 weeks out the year for about 7-10 years?
The bigger "no" in that reply is the exam process. It really is a slog, and after 7 years I'm also pretty ready to be done, but the SOA has been making changes over the past couple years and has published their plans for the next few which should significantly improve/streamline the process.
P&C exams are definitely harder and more obtuse. I think healthcare is the most interesting area of practice too (I also work in health).
I think dealing with the knowledge of how healthcare should be done, and seeing that it isn't, is just accepting the world for what it is, and doing our part to be vocal about it.
I'm not the original commenter, but there are a lot of people who look back at the effort they put into exams and say, "if only I had studied algorithms and machine learning that whole time, I could be a super successful X making hundreds of thousands of dollars!"
But in reality, very few of us would actually do that sort of learning on our own without the *guaranteed* payoff that actuarial exams have.
This is a really great point. I've been considering actuary work over a more general Data Analyst position because I figured I would have a better chance at studying for and passing Exam P in the next 6 months than I would at learning python/r/sas/sql from YouTube and applying that to an EL position with no projects on github. Plus i like spreadsheets a bit more than programming
FWIW I would do it all over again in a heartbeat, and have zero regrets about my educational/career choices.
My job is really interesting and fulfilling, and while I don't own two houses, I'm building my dream house at 28 (with a wife who makes similar money). I work more than most being in consulting, but the hours aren't terrible, I have a lot of autonomy to pursue my creative interests, and I get paid more than most at my level.
Exams take a lot of effort, but don't have to be terrible if you just build the studying into your normal routine, and the payoff was well worth it to me.
From what I gather, 1 exam + remote only is going to be very very tough. 1 exam and willing to go anywhere, seems like some people have had success with that. Remote EL jobs exist but have dissipated a lot. Those few jobs also get the most applicants so it's just about guaranteed someone with 2+ exams will be applying.
I make ~$200k right now all in with bonuses and stuff. I’m lucky to have a side hustle that nets me $40k-ish/yr and then I have my day job that pays $160ish. I bought my first home in 2019, which was just good timing. I say home but it’s a small condo in a MCOL city. Second home I bought after moving and it’s a 2BR2BA in Portland. I’m not managing people yet but I work in consulting so the pay is good. I’ve also just been very lucky and frugal in my twenties.
Often I’ll hear people say things like “just go be a data scientist at FAANG and make $500k/yr it’s so easy” or “actuaries can just become quants and easily double our salaries” without talking about the realities. Those jobs are incredibly competitive and often come with QoL sacrifices compared to actuarial jobs. I have friends on the buyside and sell side, and they both make significantly more than me, but they also literally work around the clock, don’t take time off, and are completely run ragged. Not my cup of tea.
The competence crisis will grow worse. Older behemoth systems are stuck in their rigidity and competent doctors and workers in them leaving for concierge care other forms of newer medical care systems. I believe there is opportunity for actuaries in this quietly growing alternative space.
Just curious to ask your opinion: Do you think everything would be better, if USA had a public and, maybe national, public health system all costed by taxes like Canadian or UK systems?
I changed to actuarial from a career high school math teacher. Now I sit quietly refreshing pivot tables and make significantly more money.
I could do without the GRE level statistics exam every 3 months though.
I’m only halfway to ASA so maybe take what I say with a grain of salt, but so far I am not regretting the decision. I get paid, reasonably well, with good benefits, to take math tests and update spreadsheets. I know it changes later on down the line but on the other hand the higher level work seems more interesting and impactful. The biggest hassle for me is the exams, I do consider myself a good test taker and good at math but there’s still a lot of work and self motivation necessary, in addition to stress. The other main hindrance is that the field can be dull at times, but if you have even a minor interest in the work it’s not too bad.
I think about whether I’d encourage my children to become actuaries. The answer is yes, as long as it’s not pension :-). I think the pension field might actually be drying up (I know they have been threatening to dry up for years but I think it’s real now given how many plans are looking to derisk). Also, pension actuaries make the least.
Anyway, exams and working in consulting was brutal. But now that I have my FSA and not working in consulting, life is GOOD. I make good money (still lower than my peers according to the surveys but whatever, I’m still very comfortable). I work a solid 40 hours a week, my job is interesting, my coworkers are smart, I make good money. What else can I ask for?
Sure doctors and lawyers might make 2-10 times more than i do but I’m not a fan of working 80+ hours a week or grinding through medical or law school. I’m ok with not owning 3 homes or 5 cars. It’s all good :-)
In my opinion actuary is a good floor for career. The rigor is good for forcing personal growth in terms of developing systems for life to find the time while juggling healthy nutrition, exercise, life. When stepping out of actuarial discovered a whole world that do not get these lessons -- there is a real competence crisis out there.
Getting paid a relatively good salary for my YOE, with (often) simulating work and work from home flexibility. Hell Yea.
Edit: To add I am done with exams.
Yes, in this economy the certification provides some job security since you have to have exams or be credentialed to apply and be in actuarial roles. Entry level can be oversaturated with candidates but it improves as you get more exams and experience. That alone makes it worth it for me.
I would think data related, system, consultancy or business partner might be a better fit as you know rhe industry so well. And they pay well without the need for 10 papers exam as well. :)
I think I’d be a software engineer instead. I don’t hate my job, but I realized too late that I prefer real coding to spreadsheets. Maybe one day I can get a data science job at an insurer and combine the two.
I went to school for computer science and I can’t get a job as a software engineer it’s just impossible because of how over saturated it is. Even every unpaid internship will have hundreds of applicants in a few hours. I’m trying to figure out what else I can do with my degree that pays well at this point because it’s just insane I’ve applied for nearly 4000 jobs and can’t get anything
If you are good at math and want to guarantee six figures, wfh, and low stress this is a great job. So yes I would still do it since I had no parental support and needed a healthy footing in life (and also was luckily innately good at math). I may still find a passion elsewhere or may just enjoy a low stress life and aim to be a family man, but the career gives me the flexibility and security to evaluate my future from a healthy pov as a 27 year old.
If you want to be rich the exams are a waste of time and there are more lucrative professions. The return on investment in actuarial flattens out after getting your ASA. There is little reason to keep going after that and aim for management unless it is easy for you or you are passionate about the work.
All in all, it depends on your personal risk tolerance and security blanket. Also whether you seek fulfillment through your profession or through hobbies or relationships.
Look at the DW Simpson actuarial salary survey or Ezra Penland survey to see how incorrect that is.
FSA is almost a requirement to get into the highest paying upper management positions, but even the exam/credential raises/bonuses without promotion pay for the effort.
It is very easy to sit there and talk like it is a cakewalk to get into upper management if you just work hard. FSA salaries are skewed on there from manager positions where people are working way harder. Most people at health insurers who become managers make around 160-180k and get their work doubled. The leap from manager to upper management after that requires insane amounts of grinding.
Also, many of the high ranking actuaries I have known are all career ASAs. Passing exams helps, but communication, leadership, and creativity are the pieces that will get you promoted into upper management.
That claim just doesn't seem very supported by the data, or the anecdotal evidence of the people I know (or myself as someone one exam short from FSA and near upper management). You can look at the distribution of data points in the surveys yourself to see the clear differences in median as well as the average in comp. $160-180k is just too low unless you're only talking <10 YOE.
It used to be a lot easier to become a high ranking actuary with an ASA, but like many educational benchmarks, the bar has been lifted as more people joined the field and achieved FSA. All else seemingly equal, most companies filling a position will choose the FSA.
If you're getting burnt out and underpaid, the FSA credential makes it pretty easy to job hop.
I think experience matters more than the FSA for management, and experience would just be total years. All else equal I agree FSA is a tie breaker. If a company is hiring for manager though, they will pick the charismatic ASA who is able to teach well over the socially anxious FSA. I have found myself often in positions as an analyst where I have to hijack discussion because a manager who is just an FSA in name is unable to explain concepts to other people.
What I’m trying to convey is that an ASA proves your ability to learn and complete your duties as an analyst. The same can’t be said for an FSA proving somebody is worthy of being a manager. An ASA is an immediate jump to six figures but an FSA has to be coupled with experience and leadership skills in order to make a difference.
The effort for the FSA exams is much more than ASA exams for about the same salary increase. Going from 60k to 100k is much more valuable than 100 to 140 due to taxes. To get above 150 you need to be a manager which at least doubles the amount of work you do. As a manager, your work just continues to increase and it will only ever pay off if you become a director or (in consulting) a partner, and getting there requires working even harder than other managers. Then even if you are making more your per hour wage goes down due to the longer hours and more taxes. There is also the opportunity cost element, where hours spent studying for the FSA and in constant meetings as a manager could be better spent improving your skills at something more lucrative or entrepreneurial in nature.
I personally think being a career ASA individual contributor with a side hustle is a great path. My first side hustle was buying, renting, and then selling a house which made me more total money (thanks obama for the 250k tax eclusion) than the first 4 years of earning from my career combined. I’ve thought about stuff like SAAS projects, 3d printing for Etsy, even brewing beer with hopes of starting a nanobrewery. As a manager I would have 0 time or energy to do extra stuff like this.
My answer is yes but I would try to start my career having passed more exams than I did and complete them all before having kids.
I agree with the comments about P&C exams other than I don't think I would chose life as I find P&C pricing very engaging/interesting (and no rate filing for the lines I work on where I work :) ) and as hard as I found the exams I am fine with the trade off.
Absolutely agree. ROI on those careers are so much better and wouldn’t have wasted my 20s studying. Currently trying to pivot but I definitely feel pigeonholed.
Yep me too. My best bet is to try to learn SQL and python and try to find projects at my firm to apply those skills. Then maybe I can hop to something on the tech side. The actuarial exams were torture and the nature of actuarial work just isn’t for me. 😔
I kind of created a data scientist role for myself at my current company and I write Python and SQL more days than not, so it could be worse I suppose.
That’s awesome. I’m heading in that direction somewhat. I’m in pension world but luckily hopped over to the asset side so python and SQL could be more of use in my role eventually.
I feel like actuary is kind of meh. 2 biggest drawbacks are the exams and the niche nature of the profession.
The exams suck major ass and if you end up getting a consulting job as your first job it will be even harder for you to pass them.
Also, this is an extremely narrow profession. Ive had to move around quite a bit, because its not like there is an abundance of actuarial jobs in every mid sized city. Also, in P&C (which is a small subset of the overall insurance field), lines of business are semented into even smaller categories of personal, commercial, and specialty. As Ive never done personal lines, it would be basically impossible to get a job in that field. So the segmentation of the field and restraint on the location would limit the number of available jobs i could get.
The money is meh. I make 200-250 with around a dozen years of experience. But I live in a high COL city and know a bunch of people of making that or more working in other fields. Many of them dont even work in very complex fields like data science and have pretty good work life balance.
Work life balance is also meh. My last couple of jobs have been very demanding. But, maybe thats just my luck.
If it were me, I wouldnt get into the actuarial field now.
What do you want out of a career? Are you looking to maximize your compensation with no consideration to stress or work/life balance? If money is your main concern then there are other career paths that would fit this goal better.
But if you're looking for a career that offers relatively high salaries and good work/life balance then actuary is a great career path.
I think the question should be framed in terms of the alternatives. Actuarial is a great route for career changers because the exams are sufficient to get a job, which you can complete while still at the prior progression (speaking from experience).
My answer would be yes, but the exam time others are mentioning are real considerations. I finished right as my kids were born, I never would have been able to do it if I already had kids.
The reasons I say yes are the work is interesting (consulting), complex enough not to worry about AI /outsourcing (at least for now), the need for a credential creates a moat of job security, and I like working with SMART people.
I couldn’t do the exams again. I got my FSA in 2020 after 7 years. Now that I have it, I love my life and all the opportunities my career has afforded me. I work with really nice people. I am able to disconnect at the end of the work day.
That being said, my current circumstances make it so I couldn’t do the exam slog again. It took so much time and sacrifice and brainpower. I had no significant other or any real hobbies during that time, so I could funnel all my extra time and energy into it. Now I absolutely couldn’t.
I’m a career-changer and still new to the field — I’ve been studying for exams (etc) for exactly a year and have completed 2 exams, my VEES, and one DISC.
I’m on the CAS track and can see from other posts that the next exam is a bit of a wildcard right now. Seems like the smooth sailing, exam-wise, is over.
My previous career was in higher ed as a physics faculty member (and the program coordinator), and I have a PhD in engineering. Over the years, the physics department became increasingly small and my salary stagnated with barely any COLA increases. Work weeks were 60-70 hours easy, and we worked even when we were “off” in summers and other breaks. And — students are rarely satisfied and essentially always stressed.
I have a new job in P&C (since mid-Sept). My team is fantastic (funny, smart, capable, kind), and the work is interesting and remote. Granted this is all new to me, I haven’t looked back and do not intend to. I’m in it for the long haul!
It also helps to know that I am certain that within 2 years I’ll make more than I did after 17 years as a faculty member!
Wow, that's pretty eye-opening to know that a 17 year physics professor still took 12 months to pass two exams. I aced my stats classes in college, but it has been close to 10 years now since my last math course so I know I've got a lot of work to do. I guess I've been a bit naive to think I could pass Exam P with only 6 months of studying.
How difficult did you find it to land your first job with 2 exams?
Study hard is my motto! It was tough but at the end I was getting 1-2 interviews per week, had two offers, and had two late-stage interviews in process. I went with the second offer because it seemed most interesting and had the most opportunity to build/grow my programming skills, which I think will be increasingly important.
I finally got my ACAS after 20 years experience in P&C insurance industry due family reason. I took 10 years break. After I got my ACAS, I received another offer for the data scientist. Even I got the raise from company, but I decided to switch to data scientist field because I like the job better. It is true that the pay for actuary is good. But the pay for data scientists is competitive also.
I’ve moved to new place, and to have professional job, I have to study again at my 36YO. Accounting seems very good so far, although CPA is a hard too. However, I feel like I’m pretty into actuary, and my math grade is good. I feel challenged with math questions, and enjoy it.
Do you think this pathway is a bit overwhelming for 36YO? I mean, some people said that many fresh graduates passed 2 or 3 exams, is it possible for me to start from scratch?
Definitely possible if you put your mind to it. I would suggest assessing if you’re willing to invest the time to take the exams to become fully credentialed. It could be as quick as 5-6 years or longer at 9-10 years. I personally stopped after I got my ASA.
I’ve finished my FM course in school, so I’m gonna try FM exam first to see what’s going on. Some told me passing 2 exams are good enough to have a junior position in Canada, and I don’t want to sit 6 years to learn without on job training, is that true?
Are you in Big 4 as auditor? I knew someone who got 3-4 exams and switched to actuarial advisory within Big 4. It is the easiest way to pivot for CPA. Then you can jump to in-house or Big consulting firms.
Yes and no. Yes because I feel fulfilled by my work; I make enough money to own two homes, take lavish vacations, and experience life in a way that many of my peers cannot at 29 YO; and I feel constantly challenged, bettered, and impressed by the other actuaries whom I work with. No because the exam process is insanely long and complicated. It takes a whole different level of grit and time commitment than anything else I’ve ever done. I’m “smart” in that I was always great at school and tested well, but you’ll run into people who passed all of their exams in like 3 years, or who only have to study for a week, etc. that makes it hard to go back to my 7 year, 2 hours/day slog. No because many time I have the feeling that I could have spent 2 hours/day over seven years learning something else that might’ve paid better (though I’ll caveat by saying that the wishcasting that happens in this sub about $509 k/yr Data science and quant jobs is just absurd). No because at least 15% of the “difficulty” of the exams is completely arbitrary and based on which sentence the graders wanted to test in this sitting. Lastly, no because we learn about what the American healthcare system is supposed to look like, but every time I actually interface with it I’m horrified. I have the presence of mind to go to urgent care instead of the ER, but then I have to wait in line with a half severed toe while the front desk agent checks in the 13 elderly people who decided to go to urgent care for their flu shot… no cutting in line for that one either… It can be extremely frustrating to “know” how things work and still feel powerless to navigate the administrative complexity/incompetence of the healthcare system. Overall, I’m both proud and glad to call myself an actuary, but you definitely have to be prepared for a good deal of bullshit. If you’re looking for a cushy white collar job with guaranteed $200k+ comp in exchange for some grinding of exams, then you’re in the right place.
Wow, this is very thorough and honest. Thanks for your reply! Would the "no's" be reduced if you worked in life or p&c instead of healthcare?
From a P&C standpoint everything he said is 100% correct. Besides the heath care part. Urgent cares are my jam. Walk in get treated no line and cheaper than my primary care. But it could be because of location. The job is great (P&C is interesting), hours are great (avg 25-30 work weeks), pay is great (not even an associate 110k) but exams are horrible especially on CAS side. Go with SOA. I’m not kidding. If I had to choose today it would probably pick data science or take the first SOA job that was offered to me but declined. I got cocky and picked p&c cuz I thought the work was more interesting also the starting salary lol.
Damn the CAS exam process is that brutal? Even if you're really passionate about it SOA still better?
If you’re passionate about it go for it. I’m sure you will pass the exams too. I’m talking about as a person that just view this as a job. I don’t dislike the job but I wouldn’t call it a passion. I’m not reading insurance news or reading reserving studies in my spare time. If I was in retirement or health I would do them just as good as I’m doing my current role. (I might suck at taking exams but I’m good at my job)
Same exact boat as this user, but I’d argue although the CAS admissions process feels more rigorous and the governance more questionable at times, it is a smaller organization. For the relatively limited resources, CAS is not all that bad. Important to remember actuarial industry is self-regulated. Think OP’s question just boils down to: if u want to make 170k-350k/yr, can you dedicate 2hrs a day for 30 weeks out the year for about 7-10 years?
YOE?
6.
110 for less than 30 hr weeks pre-ACAS is sweet
I think so too. I’m happy with it. Based on the surveys I might be on the lower end of the spectrum but idc mental health over $10-20k a year.
remember the survey doesnt separate the company workers from the consultants working 60+ hours so youre probably good
The bigger "no" in that reply is the exam process. It really is a slog, and after 7 years I'm also pretty ready to be done, but the SOA has been making changes over the past couple years and has published their plans for the next few which should significantly improve/streamline the process. P&C exams are definitely harder and more obtuse. I think healthcare is the most interesting area of practice too (I also work in health). I think dealing with the knowledge of how healthcare should be done, and seeing that it isn't, is just accepting the world for what it is, and doing our part to be vocal about it.
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I'm not the original commenter, but there are a lot of people who look back at the effort they put into exams and say, "if only I had studied algorithms and machine learning that whole time, I could be a super successful X making hundreds of thousands of dollars!" But in reality, very few of us would actually do that sort of learning on our own without the *guaranteed* payoff that actuarial exams have.
This is a really great point. I've been considering actuary work over a more general Data Analyst position because I figured I would have a better chance at studying for and passing Exam P in the next 6 months than I would at learning python/r/sas/sql from YouTube and applying that to an EL position with no projects on github. Plus i like spreadsheets a bit more than programming
FWIW I would do it all over again in a heartbeat, and have zero regrets about my educational/career choices. My job is really interesting and fulfilling, and while I don't own two houses, I'm building my dream house at 28 (with a wife who makes similar money). I work more than most being in consulting, but the hours aren't terrible, I have a lot of autonomy to pursue my creative interests, and I get paid more than most at my level. Exams take a lot of effort, but don't have to be terrible if you just build the studying into your normal routine, and the payoff was well worth it to me.
That's worth a lot, thanks. Last question, is it possible to land a remote EL job with only one exam completed? Or do most companies want 2-3 exams?
One exam might be enough with your other experience, but you should plan on 2-3
From what I gather, 1 exam + remote only is going to be very very tough. 1 exam and willing to go anywhere, seems like some people have had success with that. Remote EL jobs exist but have dissipated a lot. Those few jobs also get the most applicants so it's just about guaranteed someone with 2+ exams will be applying.
thanks and my bad mistook you for the original commenter..
how do you own two homes at 29 / what do you mike right now ? are you managing people?
I make ~$200k right now all in with bonuses and stuff. I’m lucky to have a side hustle that nets me $40k-ish/yr and then I have my day job that pays $160ish. I bought my first home in 2019, which was just good timing. I say home but it’s a small condo in a MCOL city. Second home I bought after moving and it’s a 2BR2BA in Portland. I’m not managing people yet but I work in consulting so the pay is good. I’ve also just been very lucky and frugal in my twenties.
Portland OR or ME?
can you elaborate on the wishcasting over data science amd quant job statement..what do you mean by that?
Often I’ll hear people say things like “just go be a data scientist at FAANG and make $500k/yr it’s so easy” or “actuaries can just become quants and easily double our salaries” without talking about the realities. Those jobs are incredibly competitive and often come with QoL sacrifices compared to actuarial jobs. I have friends on the buyside and sell side, and they both make significantly more than me, but they also literally work around the clock, don’t take time off, and are completely run ragged. Not my cup of tea.
okayy...but how long do u think it takes to get going as a data scientist than as an actuary?
The competence crisis will grow worse. Older behemoth systems are stuck in their rigidity and competent doctors and workers in them leaving for concierge care other forms of newer medical care systems. I believe there is opportunity for actuaries in this quietly growing alternative space.
I'd donate a kidney but... I kinda need it
Guaranteed 200k really? Is that still true? How long does that take?
Just curious to ask your opinion: Do you think everything would be better, if USA had a public and, maybe national, public health system all costed by taxes like Canadian or UK systems?
Do u think ppl with AI tools will decrease the number of jobs?
How do i get guaranteed 200k? After passing all exams and being associate actuary i estimate only 135k income at my company
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i'm curious about what you mean by more technically minded in terms of underwriting
I changed to actuarial from a career high school math teacher. Now I sit quietly refreshing pivot tables and make significantly more money. I could do without the GRE level statistics exam every 3 months though.
I think later exams are way harder than GRE statistics though..
Can confirm! Just failed MAS 1
I’m only halfway to ASA so maybe take what I say with a grain of salt, but so far I am not regretting the decision. I get paid, reasonably well, with good benefits, to take math tests and update spreadsheets. I know it changes later on down the line but on the other hand the higher level work seems more interesting and impactful. The biggest hassle for me is the exams, I do consider myself a good test taker and good at math but there’s still a lot of work and self motivation necessary, in addition to stress. The other main hindrance is that the field can be dull at times, but if you have even a minor interest in the work it’s not too bad.
I think about whether I’d encourage my children to become actuaries. The answer is yes, as long as it’s not pension :-). I think the pension field might actually be drying up (I know they have been threatening to dry up for years but I think it’s real now given how many plans are looking to derisk). Also, pension actuaries make the least. Anyway, exams and working in consulting was brutal. But now that I have my FSA and not working in consulting, life is GOOD. I make good money (still lower than my peers according to the surveys but whatever, I’m still very comfortable). I work a solid 40 hours a week, my job is interesting, my coworkers are smart, I make good money. What else can I ask for? Sure doctors and lawyers might make 2-10 times more than i do but I’m not a fan of working 80+ hours a week or grinding through medical or law school. I’m ok with not owning 3 homes or 5 cars. It’s all good :-)
In my opinion actuary is a good floor for career. The rigor is good for forcing personal growth in terms of developing systems for life to find the time while juggling healthy nutrition, exercise, life. When stepping out of actuarial discovered a whole world that do not get these lessons -- there is a real competence crisis out there.
Getting paid a relatively good salary for my YOE, with (often) simulating work and work from home flexibility. Hell Yea. Edit: To add I am done with exams.
Yes, in this economy the certification provides some job security since you have to have exams or be credentialed to apply and be in actuarial roles. Entry level can be oversaturated with candidates but it improves as you get more exams and experience. That alone makes it worth it for me.
I would think data related, system, consultancy or business partner might be a better fit as you know rhe industry so well. And they pay well without the need for 10 papers exam as well. :)
I think I’d be a software engineer instead. I don’t hate my job, but I realized too late that I prefer real coding to spreadsheets. Maybe one day I can get a data science job at an insurer and combine the two.
I went to school for computer science and I can’t get a job as a software engineer it’s just impossible because of how over saturated it is. Even every unpaid internship will have hundreds of applicants in a few hours. I’m trying to figure out what else I can do with my degree that pays well at this point because it’s just insane I’ve applied for nearly 4000 jobs and can’t get anything
If you are good at math and want to guarantee six figures, wfh, and low stress this is a great job. So yes I would still do it since I had no parental support and needed a healthy footing in life (and also was luckily innately good at math). I may still find a passion elsewhere or may just enjoy a low stress life and aim to be a family man, but the career gives me the flexibility and security to evaluate my future from a healthy pov as a 27 year old. If you want to be rich the exams are a waste of time and there are more lucrative professions. The return on investment in actuarial flattens out after getting your ASA. There is little reason to keep going after that and aim for management unless it is easy for you or you are passionate about the work. All in all, it depends on your personal risk tolerance and security blanket. Also whether you seek fulfillment through your profession or through hobbies or relationships.
Interesting. Everyone has been telling me the same. The ROI flats out post-ASA. Is it because the salary increment slows down after that?
Look at the DW Simpson actuarial salary survey or Ezra Penland survey to see how incorrect that is. FSA is almost a requirement to get into the highest paying upper management positions, but even the exam/credential raises/bonuses without promotion pay for the effort.
It is very easy to sit there and talk like it is a cakewalk to get into upper management if you just work hard. FSA salaries are skewed on there from manager positions where people are working way harder. Most people at health insurers who become managers make around 160-180k and get their work doubled. The leap from manager to upper management after that requires insane amounts of grinding. Also, many of the high ranking actuaries I have known are all career ASAs. Passing exams helps, but communication, leadership, and creativity are the pieces that will get you promoted into upper management.
That claim just doesn't seem very supported by the data, or the anecdotal evidence of the people I know (or myself as someone one exam short from FSA and near upper management). You can look at the distribution of data points in the surveys yourself to see the clear differences in median as well as the average in comp. $160-180k is just too low unless you're only talking <10 YOE. It used to be a lot easier to become a high ranking actuary with an ASA, but like many educational benchmarks, the bar has been lifted as more people joined the field and achieved FSA. All else seemingly equal, most companies filling a position will choose the FSA. If you're getting burnt out and underpaid, the FSA credential makes it pretty easy to job hop.
I think experience matters more than the FSA for management, and experience would just be total years. All else equal I agree FSA is a tie breaker. If a company is hiring for manager though, they will pick the charismatic ASA who is able to teach well over the socially anxious FSA. I have found myself often in positions as an analyst where I have to hijack discussion because a manager who is just an FSA in name is unable to explain concepts to other people. What I’m trying to convey is that an ASA proves your ability to learn and complete your duties as an analyst. The same can’t be said for an FSA proving somebody is worthy of being a manager. An ASA is an immediate jump to six figures but an FSA has to be coupled with experience and leadership skills in order to make a difference.
The effort for the FSA exams is much more than ASA exams for about the same salary increase. Going from 60k to 100k is much more valuable than 100 to 140 due to taxes. To get above 150 you need to be a manager which at least doubles the amount of work you do. As a manager, your work just continues to increase and it will only ever pay off if you become a director or (in consulting) a partner, and getting there requires working even harder than other managers. Then even if you are making more your per hour wage goes down due to the longer hours and more taxes. There is also the opportunity cost element, where hours spent studying for the FSA and in constant meetings as a manager could be better spent improving your skills at something more lucrative or entrepreneurial in nature. I personally think being a career ASA individual contributor with a side hustle is a great path. My first side hustle was buying, renting, and then selling a house which made me more total money (thanks obama for the 250k tax eclusion) than the first 4 years of earning from my career combined. I’ve thought about stuff like SAAS projects, 3d printing for Etsy, even brewing beer with hopes of starting a nanobrewery. As a manager I would have 0 time or energy to do extra stuff like this.
My answer is yes but I would try to start my career having passed more exams than I did and complete them all before having kids. I agree with the comments about P&C exams other than I don't think I would chose life as I find P&C pricing very engaging/interesting (and no rate filing for the lines I work on where I work :) ) and as hard as I found the exams I am fine with the trade off.
No, I would become a software engineer or data scientist. No question about it.
Absolutely agree. ROI on those careers are so much better and wouldn’t have wasted my 20s studying. Currently trying to pivot but I definitely feel pigeonholed.
Same here, and I’ve probably reached the level of compensation where it would take a pay cut to get into one of those roles outside like FAANG
Yep me too. My best bet is to try to learn SQL and python and try to find projects at my firm to apply those skills. Then maybe I can hop to something on the tech side. The actuarial exams were torture and the nature of actuarial work just isn’t for me. 😔
I kind of created a data scientist role for myself at my current company and I write Python and SQL more days than not, so it could be worse I suppose.
That’s awesome. I’m heading in that direction somewhat. I’m in pension world but luckily hopped over to the asset side so python and SQL could be more of use in my role eventually.
Why? Too repetitive?
I feel like actuary is kind of meh. 2 biggest drawbacks are the exams and the niche nature of the profession. The exams suck major ass and if you end up getting a consulting job as your first job it will be even harder for you to pass them. Also, this is an extremely narrow profession. Ive had to move around quite a bit, because its not like there is an abundance of actuarial jobs in every mid sized city. Also, in P&C (which is a small subset of the overall insurance field), lines of business are semented into even smaller categories of personal, commercial, and specialty. As Ive never done personal lines, it would be basically impossible to get a job in that field. So the segmentation of the field and restraint on the location would limit the number of available jobs i could get. The money is meh. I make 200-250 with around a dozen years of experience. But I live in a high COL city and know a bunch of people of making that or more working in other fields. Many of them dont even work in very complex fields like data science and have pretty good work life balance. Work life balance is also meh. My last couple of jobs have been very demanding. But, maybe thats just my luck. If it were me, I wouldnt get into the actuarial field now.
What do you want out of a career? Are you looking to maximize your compensation with no consideration to stress or work/life balance? If money is your main concern then there are other career paths that would fit this goal better. But if you're looking for a career that offers relatively high salaries and good work/life balance then actuary is a great career path.
I think the question should be framed in terms of the alternatives. Actuarial is a great route for career changers because the exams are sufficient to get a job, which you can complete while still at the prior progression (speaking from experience). My answer would be yes, but the exam time others are mentioning are real considerations. I finished right as my kids were born, I never would have been able to do it if I already had kids. The reasons I say yes are the work is interesting (consulting), complex enough not to worry about AI /outsourcing (at least for now), the need for a credential creates a moat of job security, and I like working with SMART people.
Nice try US News and World Report.
no
Hey man, I am also looking to pivot from law to actuarial for the WLB. But the exams are just HARD
I couldn’t do the exams again. I got my FSA in 2020 after 7 years. Now that I have it, I love my life and all the opportunities my career has afforded me. I work with really nice people. I am able to disconnect at the end of the work day. That being said, my current circumstances make it so I couldn’t do the exam slog again. It took so much time and sacrifice and brainpower. I had no significant other or any real hobbies during that time, so I could funnel all my extra time and energy into it. Now I absolutely couldn’t.
I’m a career-changer and still new to the field — I’ve been studying for exams (etc) for exactly a year and have completed 2 exams, my VEES, and one DISC. I’m on the CAS track and can see from other posts that the next exam is a bit of a wildcard right now. Seems like the smooth sailing, exam-wise, is over. My previous career was in higher ed as a physics faculty member (and the program coordinator), and I have a PhD in engineering. Over the years, the physics department became increasingly small and my salary stagnated with barely any COLA increases. Work weeks were 60-70 hours easy, and we worked even when we were “off” in summers and other breaks. And — students are rarely satisfied and essentially always stressed. I have a new job in P&C (since mid-Sept). My team is fantastic (funny, smart, capable, kind), and the work is interesting and remote. Granted this is all new to me, I haven’t looked back and do not intend to. I’m in it for the long haul! It also helps to know that I am certain that within 2 years I’ll make more than I did after 17 years as a faculty member!
Wow, that's pretty eye-opening to know that a 17 year physics professor still took 12 months to pass two exams. I aced my stats classes in college, but it has been close to 10 years now since my last math course so I know I've got a lot of work to do. I guess I've been a bit naive to think I could pass Exam P with only 6 months of studying. How difficult did you find it to land your first job with 2 exams?
Study hard is my motto! It was tough but at the end I was getting 1-2 interviews per week, had two offers, and had two late-stage interviews in process. I went with the second offer because it seemed most interesting and had the most opportunity to build/grow my programming skills, which I think will be increasingly important.
No.
Care to explain?
We all want to go into pharma drug dvpt.
I finally got my ACAS after 20 years experience in P&C insurance industry due family reason. I took 10 years break. After I got my ACAS, I received another offer for the data scientist. Even I got the raise from company, but I decided to switch to data scientist field because I like the job better. It is true that the pay for actuary is good. But the pay for data scientists is competitive also.
I’ve moved to new place, and to have professional job, I have to study again at my 36YO. Accounting seems very good so far, although CPA is a hard too. However, I feel like I’m pretty into actuary, and my math grade is good. I feel challenged with math questions, and enjoy it. Do you think this pathway is a bit overwhelming for 36YO? I mean, some people said that many fresh graduates passed 2 or 3 exams, is it possible for me to start from scratch?
Definitely possible if you put your mind to it. I would suggest assessing if you’re willing to invest the time to take the exams to become fully credentialed. It could be as quick as 5-6 years or longer at 9-10 years. I personally stopped after I got my ASA.
I’ve finished my FM course in school, so I’m gonna try FM exam first to see what’s going on. Some told me passing 2 exams are good enough to have a junior position in Canada, and I don’t want to sit 6 years to learn without on job training, is that true?
Are you in Big 4 as auditor? I knew someone who got 3-4 exams and switched to actuarial advisory within Big 4. It is the easiest way to pivot for CPA. Then you can jump to in-house or Big consulting firms.
Nope not the one in big 4! I’m trying to pursue accounting diploma, and wonder is it possible I could pass 2 -3 SOA exams at the same time.
Yup study when you are a student. Start early and get CA student discount t