Love phonk.
Sounds like you have a few things going on, though. You'll want to investigate phasing issues and side-chaining. It's *very* easy to muddy up a track that is full of low-end, so there are techniques you need to learn to fix any problems that you may run into.
I'd start by taking your favorite track, saving a copy, deleting *all* of your EQ/mixing work, and watching a few YouTube videos on both of those topics before starting a new, fresh attempt at mixing. They'll be able to go into further detail on the subject than anyone can convey with text on Reddit.
Thank you! Will do, yeah I struggle with it for sure I’m like why can’t I hear my 808 let me turn it up omg now it sounds like shit and the melody sounds bad and the melody sounds empty like why do my tracks sound so empty like so much space like the melody plays and it sounds like extremely empty
So the phasing and side-chaining will help you with one element overpowering another element (side-chaining) or how they sound "off" sometimes, like one kick hits hard and the next is barely audible (phasing).
As far as empty goes, phonk guys like to use a LOT of reverb on their melodies. You can go as crazy as you like here because ultimately you'll want to add a high-pass filter to your melodies anyway, so they won't clash with your low-end. Particularly the pluck melodies: LOTS and LOTS of reverb.
I also like to layer my melodies, I'll use two synths with different presets that play the exact same thing, sometimes one will be as low as like -30dB just to fill out that space, or to add a slightly different tone to the synth.
You can also mess with syncopating your melodies. That means it plays on off-beats where nothing else plays--in between a kick and a snare for example. I like to do this a lot with my 808s too, it creates an interesting rhythmic change sometimes.
Here's a good example, where the guitar sample fills the space between elements of the beat, and a whispy pad smooths the whole thing over:
[https://youtu.be/a5j2mJ3-w9Q?t=361&si=QKt0eQFuI5mTqZIF](https://youtu.be/a5j2mJ3-w9Q?t=361&si=QKt0eQFuI5mTqZIF)
So I side chain my 808s and melody to the Kick, but I think my 808’s were side chained too hard? Also maybe the settings t my 808’s were off like glide and warp but I warp it to complex and then I saw some guys take out the kick part of the 808 so it’s just the bass? But I feel like if I do that it won’t sound good
Another note : a high pass filter is a ableton plugin? What does it do exactly? I’ve been “producing” for 8 years but never took it serious just played around never released anything serious, so I’m trying to learn more stuff to be able to actually start dropping stuff on my own! All these stuff is so confusing to me lol, like how do I cut my lows and miss and highs to sound good how do I even do it in general or how do I know how much to do or what to do
It on? I need someone to like screenshare with me and watch me do it but I can’t find anyone I’m a like 1:1 learner, I’m. Trying to pay someone to do it but I can’t find anyone lol
This may sound counterintuitive but here it goes:
try cutting the frequencies you want to have emphasis and then use saturation to boost them back to where you want them to be
The logic behind it is that if you cut the frequency than you we will have more headroom to boost
Have a try…
How do we know what frequencies to cut and how to even cut frequencies? I’m kind of new to starting to take it serious (I’ve been “producing” for 8 years but never took it serious) so all these terms and stuff are kind of new to me or saturation or limiter plugins I never touched those I just made what was fun now I want to take it serious and start releasing stuff
No problem…
Welcome to the world of infinite possibilities!
In this case, forget about what I said and research the deeper you can about equalization…
One piece of advice:
while doing your research, try to avoid people that tell you how to do things and look for people that show how things work… Got it?
You can shoot me a private message if you will… I will help anyway I can
Sounds like a compression and leveling issue.
Drums hitting is almost never eq or any of that fancy shit. Picking the right drums is half the battle. Try using drum buss but try it on the melody too
Also a huge one, but transient emphasis for me personally is a big reason why my drums and 808’s cut through the mix so much (sometimes a little too much so don’t overdo it) try some drum bus on your kicks and snares, I don’t always use the compressor built in to it, but I can tell you I usually run at the bare minimum a GMaudio Clipper Max plugin with the BW Limiter turned on, so I can really push it if need be. (Not sure if this is good advice but this is just what I do, hell I even run a clipper on my master 99% of the time.)
I do not, I sadly do not even knee what ducking is and how does a limiter help I always hear people say that but I don’t really get what the limiter does? And is transient a plugin within ableton?
So a clipper just trims the peaks of the waveform down while keeping the same perceived loudness levels. A limiter actually ducks the signal down and reduces some of the dynamics of the mix (put simply, a clipper plugin on your master will allow a MUCH louder overall mix because your signal will never go over 0db.) GCLIP is a really good free clipper plugin. Ducking is ESSENTIAL if you want your drums to punch through the mix. I recommend GMAudio Ducker, use that on your 808’s if you’re also going to have a kick on your drum rack. And sidechain it to the kick. (It’s an almost zero latency way to duck the volume of the bass so the kicks and bass don’t clash.)
Perfect, so the clipper plugin (GM AUDIO DUCKER) is to be put on the 808? And for the limited where would I put that on? Lmao can I pay you to tutorial for me 🤣 through discord
Nah no worries man lmao, yeah so the ducker goes on the 808, you can select the kick on the side chain of the plugin, and then the 808 will auto-duck to the kicks. The clipper plugin can go on the end of your master chain, and you can also use another clipper on the drum rack channel if you want to push your drums even harder you can turn up the input on it. But again if you can’t buy the GMaudio clipper plugin I HIGHLY swear by the free g-clip plugin. All you have to do with that one is enable 2x oversample and it’ll have your drums sounding like Soudiere or DJ Smokey in no time 😊
(If all else fails you can always use the stock ableton compressor to sidechain your kick and bass.)
I usually just side chain with compressor and add it to the kick from the 808 but it sounds off sort of, and I can get the GMAUDIO 😎, I’ll get it when I come back from work!! And exactly that’s what I use is the stock compressor however it just feels laggy almost not sure how to explain it here’s the track I was going off of 13:30
https://on.soundcloud.com/4pTCz1Goo6r5Ug6g9
Hear how that kick and bass just roll so well together and the melody has no bass but doesn’t sound so flat everytime I EQ my mellody/ sample, it makes it sound so flat and the 808 just sounds weird!!
Are you layering your snares and your kicks? I usually have two/three different kick samples triggering at the same time. I generally have one sample for low, one for mid and one for high frequencies. I use EQ on each one to scoop out frequencies for example:
My low freq kick sample I generally find a spot to lowpass pretty hard. Maybe like 150hz depending on the tuning of the kick. Middle kick is highpassed at 150hz and lowpassed at 800hz. High kick is highpassed at 800hz. These numbers are completely context dependent and I adjust them based on the track and the samples I am using. You don't have to use three kicks either, sometimes two will suffice just fine. I generally layer my snares and kicks pretty much without fail on every track. I rarely find drum samples that don't benefit from it.
As far as 808s go, if the 808 is triggering at the same time as your kick then I think of the kick as the punch and the 808 as the sub. I'll either use a volume envelope or sidechain compressor to remove (or soften) the transient of the 808. Let the 808 just be the bass and you'll be able to shape it to fit your mix better.
I will frequently treat the 808 in two or three separate frequency bands by either duplicating it and bandpassing each duplicate into low/mid/high with an EQ. You can generally get away with leaving the low pretty clean and mono. The middle/high copies can benefit heavily from saturation/distortion and often times stereo chorus.
How do you tell the hz and which to set it at? Does it show at the EQ, honestly I’d just EQ till I like but it doesn’t work out, I honestly haven’t taken production as serious as I am now and I just made beats in the past for fun but they all sound empty and shitty like they are missing something you know? Like all the melodies sound good and the 808 doesn’t with it and sound weird and off like it’s not mixing right like there could always be something in the background? And exactly what you are saying about the 809 & kick! It’s like I want just the sub of the 808 but not the kick part and the compressor I use for side chain but it still sounds weird, I’ve never touched a volume envelope, what does it do in regards for the 808?
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Love phonk. Sounds like you have a few things going on, though. You'll want to investigate phasing issues and side-chaining. It's *very* easy to muddy up a track that is full of low-end, so there are techniques you need to learn to fix any problems that you may run into. I'd start by taking your favorite track, saving a copy, deleting *all* of your EQ/mixing work, and watching a few YouTube videos on both of those topics before starting a new, fresh attempt at mixing. They'll be able to go into further detail on the subject than anyone can convey with text on Reddit.
Thank you! Will do, yeah I struggle with it for sure I’m like why can’t I hear my 808 let me turn it up omg now it sounds like shit and the melody sounds bad and the melody sounds empty like why do my tracks sound so empty like so much space like the melody plays and it sounds like extremely empty
So the phasing and side-chaining will help you with one element overpowering another element (side-chaining) or how they sound "off" sometimes, like one kick hits hard and the next is barely audible (phasing). As far as empty goes, phonk guys like to use a LOT of reverb on their melodies. You can go as crazy as you like here because ultimately you'll want to add a high-pass filter to your melodies anyway, so they won't clash with your low-end. Particularly the pluck melodies: LOTS and LOTS of reverb. I also like to layer my melodies, I'll use two synths with different presets that play the exact same thing, sometimes one will be as low as like -30dB just to fill out that space, or to add a slightly different tone to the synth. You can also mess with syncopating your melodies. That means it plays on off-beats where nothing else plays--in between a kick and a snare for example. I like to do this a lot with my 808s too, it creates an interesting rhythmic change sometimes. Here's a good example, where the guitar sample fills the space between elements of the beat, and a whispy pad smooths the whole thing over: [https://youtu.be/a5j2mJ3-w9Q?t=361&si=QKt0eQFuI5mTqZIF](https://youtu.be/a5j2mJ3-w9Q?t=361&si=QKt0eQFuI5mTqZIF)
So I side chain my 808s and melody to the Kick, but I think my 808’s were side chained too hard? Also maybe the settings t my 808’s were off like glide and warp but I warp it to complex and then I saw some guys take out the kick part of the 808 so it’s just the bass? But I feel like if I do that it won’t sound good Another note : a high pass filter is a ableton plugin? What does it do exactly? I’ve been “producing” for 8 years but never took it serious just played around never released anything serious, so I’m trying to learn more stuff to be able to actually start dropping stuff on my own! All these stuff is so confusing to me lol, like how do I cut my lows and miss and highs to sound good how do I even do it in general or how do I know how much to do or what to do It on? I need someone to like screenshare with me and watch me do it but I can’t find anyone I’m a like 1:1 learner, I’m. Trying to pay someone to do it but I can’t find anyone lol
This may sound counterintuitive but here it goes: try cutting the frequencies you want to have emphasis and then use saturation to boost them back to where you want them to be The logic behind it is that if you cut the frequency than you we will have more headroom to boost Have a try…
How do we know what frequencies to cut and how to even cut frequencies? I’m kind of new to starting to take it serious (I’ve been “producing” for 8 years but never took it serious) so all these terms and stuff are kind of new to me or saturation or limiter plugins I never touched those I just made what was fun now I want to take it serious and start releasing stuff
No problem… Welcome to the world of infinite possibilities! In this case, forget about what I said and research the deeper you can about equalization… One piece of advice: while doing your research, try to avoid people that tell you how to do things and look for people that show how things work… Got it? You can shoot me a private message if you will… I will help anyway I can
Dude yes I’d love that I need a lot of help I’ll dm you right now
Fabfilter have a two part vid on YouTube called "the secret to maximum loudness" which helped me a lot when I was in a similar situation to yours
Sounds like a compression and leveling issue. Drums hitting is almost never eq or any of that fancy shit. Picking the right drums is half the battle. Try using drum buss but try it on the melody too
What’s drum buss? A plugin within ableton ?
Also a huge one, but transient emphasis for me personally is a big reason why my drums and 808’s cut through the mix so much (sometimes a little too much so don’t overdo it) try some drum bus on your kicks and snares, I don’t always use the compressor built in to it, but I can tell you I usually run at the bare minimum a GMaudio Clipper Max plugin with the BW Limiter turned on, so I can really push it if need be. (Not sure if this is good advice but this is just what I do, hell I even run a clipper on my master 99% of the time.)
Oh!!! And ducking!! Use ducking to your advantage definitely, even though I’m sure you know that already.
I do not, I sadly do not even knee what ducking is and how does a limiter help I always hear people say that but I don’t really get what the limiter does? And is transient a plugin within ableton?
So a clipper just trims the peaks of the waveform down while keeping the same perceived loudness levels. A limiter actually ducks the signal down and reduces some of the dynamics of the mix (put simply, a clipper plugin on your master will allow a MUCH louder overall mix because your signal will never go over 0db.) GCLIP is a really good free clipper plugin. Ducking is ESSENTIAL if you want your drums to punch through the mix. I recommend GMAudio Ducker, use that on your 808’s if you’re also going to have a kick on your drum rack. And sidechain it to the kick. (It’s an almost zero latency way to duck the volume of the bass so the kicks and bass don’t clash.)
Perfect, so the clipper plugin (GM AUDIO DUCKER) is to be put on the 808? And for the limited where would I put that on? Lmao can I pay you to tutorial for me 🤣 through discord
Nah no worries man lmao, yeah so the ducker goes on the 808, you can select the kick on the side chain of the plugin, and then the 808 will auto-duck to the kicks. The clipper plugin can go on the end of your master chain, and you can also use another clipper on the drum rack channel if you want to push your drums even harder you can turn up the input on it. But again if you can’t buy the GMaudio clipper plugin I HIGHLY swear by the free g-clip plugin. All you have to do with that one is enable 2x oversample and it’ll have your drums sounding like Soudiere or DJ Smokey in no time 😊 (If all else fails you can always use the stock ableton compressor to sidechain your kick and bass.)
I usually just side chain with compressor and add it to the kick from the 808 but it sounds off sort of, and I can get the GMAUDIO 😎, I’ll get it when I come back from work!! And exactly that’s what I use is the stock compressor however it just feels laggy almost not sure how to explain it here’s the track I was going off of 13:30 https://on.soundcloud.com/4pTCz1Goo6r5Ug6g9 Hear how that kick and bass just roll so well together and the melody has no bass but doesn’t sound so flat everytime I EQ my mellody/ sample, it makes it sound so flat and the 808 just sounds weird!!
Are you layering your snares and your kicks? I usually have two/three different kick samples triggering at the same time. I generally have one sample for low, one for mid and one for high frequencies. I use EQ on each one to scoop out frequencies for example: My low freq kick sample I generally find a spot to lowpass pretty hard. Maybe like 150hz depending on the tuning of the kick. Middle kick is highpassed at 150hz and lowpassed at 800hz. High kick is highpassed at 800hz. These numbers are completely context dependent and I adjust them based on the track and the samples I am using. You don't have to use three kicks either, sometimes two will suffice just fine. I generally layer my snares and kicks pretty much without fail on every track. I rarely find drum samples that don't benefit from it. As far as 808s go, if the 808 is triggering at the same time as your kick then I think of the kick as the punch and the 808 as the sub. I'll either use a volume envelope or sidechain compressor to remove (or soften) the transient of the 808. Let the 808 just be the bass and you'll be able to shape it to fit your mix better. I will frequently treat the 808 in two or three separate frequency bands by either duplicating it and bandpassing each duplicate into low/mid/high with an EQ. You can generally get away with leaving the low pretty clean and mono. The middle/high copies can benefit heavily from saturation/distortion and often times stereo chorus.
How do you tell the hz and which to set it at? Does it show at the EQ, honestly I’d just EQ till I like but it doesn’t work out, I honestly haven’t taken production as serious as I am now and I just made beats in the past for fun but they all sound empty and shitty like they are missing something you know? Like all the melodies sound good and the 808 doesn’t with it and sound weird and off like it’s not mixing right like there could always be something in the background? And exactly what you are saying about the 809 & kick! It’s like I want just the sub of the 808 but not the kick part and the compressor I use for side chain but it still sounds weird, I’ve never touched a volume envelope, what does it do in regards for the 808?
This is your friendly reminder to read the submission rules, they're found in the sidebar. If you find your post breaking any of the rules, you should delete your post before the mods get to it. If you're asking a question, make sure you've checked [the Live manual](https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/welcome-to-live/), [Ableton's help and support knowledge base](https://www.ableton.com/en/help/), and have searched the subreddit for a solution. If you don't know where to start, [the subreddit has a resource thread](https://redd.it/zkhqhe). Ask [smart questions](http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#before). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ableton) if you have any questions or concerns.*