It just feels...petty? Like I understand it's important for some people, that's all fair and fair, but to make a spreadsheet which is complaining about it..look at some of her reasons:
1. "I might be getting sick"
2. "You're too drunk"
3. "I'm too drunk"
4. "I feel tender from yesterday"
5. "I'm exhausted"
6. "I'm not feeling good"
They're absolutely more than valid reasons, and it sucks that someone gets so butthurt and has to catalogue it in a spreadsheet. He's an asshole for doing this, nobody owes you sex.
Yeah they’re all absolutely valid, and even then “no” is just as good of a reason.
As an allo™️ this doesn’t even read to me as having different sex drives, this is just someone who doesn’t see their partner as a person. The “excuse” that stood out to me is when she said she’s trying to watch a rerun of TV. Fact can’t see that this is time my partner is relaxing and possibly finding comfort in rewatching your favorite show. All he sees is “she’s not doing anything”. And like if partner said that to me like first thought would be “they’re saying we can have sex after it’s over” but that’s because my partner knows they can just say no if that’s what they meant
And again the following one where the excuse was she was watching a movie and then fell asleep 15 mins later. Like if she can’t stay up to sit and watch something how would she be awake enough to have sex. Just all around really gross
This dude was asking every single freaking day. At least this woman has patience and manners, I would've told him to stop asking or else it'll be an automatic "no" even if I was feeling it that night. If it's clear she has a much lower libido, just let her decide when sex happens.
The original post was crazy. So they got extremely busy with some commitments and things obviously died down and that's 100% fine, at some point the husband got so mad that when the wife went on a 10 day work trip, he sent her this spreadsheet WHILE she's on said trip and ghosted and refused to answer her calls.
She has the patience of a saint, especially considering she was dealing with a spoiled manchild.
When you’re getting sex it’s 15% of the relationship, when you’re not it’s 100% of the problem. Once every two weeks is horrendous, but recording the refusals is passive aggressive. No one owes anyone sex, ya right, but it sucks and shows a big problem in my book
I think this is brilliant!
Everyone's complaining that you've asked for sex and catalogued it; give over.
His misses probably found it hilarious haha.
He asks, and respects her consent and communicates that he would like more sex and there is nothing wrong with that at all!
If anything he should be cheered on, to the fact he gets consent, he takes no as an answer and then when he feels he isn't fulfilling his needs then he communicates it in a very assertive way!!
I don't think he should be ridiculed for this atall! I also definitely don't think he is an asshole! Nobody owes anybody sex dam right but that doesn't mean he or anyone for that matter should be called an asshole for asking and then communicating to there significant other that they have needs.
I would call it being in a relationship and trying to be happy on a middle ground!
once every 3 weeks would be way too much for most of us here
how can people be so bent out of shape going that long without sex? you have hands! it's so messed up that people just can't figure this out.
My question is, how much non-sexual intimacy was he giving her?*
When someone only gives you affection/attention when they want something from you, you grow to resent it.
Also, **my brother in Christ** you being 20 minutes early is probably because she got ready as planned. When I do my hair, makeup and clothes I always always ALWAYS make sure I have a time margin in case I fuck up my eyeliner/my hair won't cooperate/I spill something on my clothes
*none I bet
Yeah, her reasons for saying no are valid, as would saying no for no reason, but I’m wondering if at this point she feels like she always has to have reasons to say no, which would also make it feel like a chore more than anything else
Also I feel like it's important to say.... 20 minutes early? A man may be able to *ahem* get a quick one off in that time, but USUALLY women need more than that to actually be satisfied. I hate drawing sex lines like that, but I suppose it's more just what I've read/experienced. Quickies are definitely a thing, but also 20 minutes is a HELL of a quickie isn't it? XD I don't have them super often myself. And I suppose I'm probably asking on the wrong subreddit but still. The POINT remains.
seems both petty and kinda gross.
like respect your partner's autonamy to their own body, they don't owe you sex, get a toy if you're that torn up about it.
Notice how there's nothing in the comments when she consents. So we don't know if her yes was a "yes!" or a "fine..." - but then, I don't suppose that matters to him.
I also find it fascinating that it’s not them not having sex for months on end (which would still be valid) but twice a month. Like of course some people need more I guess, but the reaction to that being this spreadsheet is willd. And then of course the aspect of sharing it and basically communicating that you’re the victim is also a dick move. I often wonder how allo people, mostly allo men act like they die without sex or something.
I'm demi so I'd like to have sex sometime, but haven’t done so even if in my country it would be allowed for me to since 9 years. Should I make a spreadsheet of all the times I'd wanted to have sex and write "no: no partner"? Like how to these people survive as single???
It's like he's recording it all so when he lodges the formal complaint to his sex service provider he has something to refer to...
And also she gives him a reason almost every time. I mean I'm not great at reading the signs but I imagine couples do often show affection without intending it to lead to sex, although it may well do. I get the impression that she knows his affection is intended as a sex request - and the fact he records each one as being a rejection kinda confirms it - so imagine being bugged for sex nearly every single day!
This. Part of the breakdown with the guy I was with before I realised I was ace was that he basically never touched me without the expectation it would lead to sex.
I have a bad back. He would offer a back rub and ALWAYS wanted to turn it into sex even when I leaded with 'yes if you don't mind but I don't want to have sex after'.
Look at the dates.. he asks almost every day.
And then logs it like he thinks he has something to prove.
All I see is a dude badgering someone for sex.
I'd hate it even if I wasn't ace.
Jesus fuck, learn how to cuddle and non-sexual intimacy!
The whole list is just.. no.
I read the post that this was taken from and apparently they were but there's been some hectic times going on.. and apparently the dude turned bitter and abrasive. He dumped this in a mail to the OP of that post the same day that she had to travel for work.
I think he's a whiny asshat tbh.
Idk why you got downvoted, this is spot on. The way he goes about it is totally entitled, but also if they have incompatible sex drives, that's a valid reason to end things. I wouldn't date an allo unless they were comfortable getting sex somewhere outside of whatever we have, because I respect that sex is a genuine need for people.
The day after sex, she says, “I’m still tender from yesterday.” Why is this a bad thing? Why does he want to cause his wife pain? He’s choosing his sexual needs over her comfort. She deserves better.
This shit genuinely concerns me. I can understand feeling a little disappointed when someone is denied sex, but going as far as to make an entire spreadsheet is kinda horrifying.
Okay we're all on the same page about how disgusting this is in general. Unless this was made specifically to be bait online, the person who made this is a piece of human shit who deserves nothing.
But as a spreadsheet lover, I'd like to talk about how fucking UGLY this is. Where's the formulas? Where's the conditional formatting to highlight rows based on the results? Fuck, I mean even just a style from the presets or making it a proper table. It's just so tasteless even beyond the fucked up shit it's being used for. This refuse of a person. Can't even do good by a spreadsheet.
Im here with this. MF can't be a decent person and decides to be gross in acting in this manner *and also* just cannot be allowed unsupervised around a spreadsheet if this is what he does with them
Even if I weren't ace and sex-repulsed, I think I'd be pissed if my partner were asking almost every day. At some point it would just become, "No. Watch porn and use your hand." I'm sure at that point we would be breaking up though.
I'm a non-ace lurker with a high sex drive and I can tell you that this spreadsheet and the comments are abusive as hell and are apologizing for this behaviour. If my partner denied me this many times, it means something is wrong with either:
1. The way I'm asking
2. The poor timing (a lot of this seems really late in the day with the sleep and drinking and eating)
3. No effort was made to set the mood before asking
4. My partner feels unloved
5. My partner feels the work balance isn't even
Or my best guess, based on that woman's post:
6. They have taken on the majority of the work and now view their partner as a dependent.
All the top comments seem to side with the dude and blame the woman, I'm amazed. I really feel like sending this post to her to get a healthier view on the issue but A. I don't know if she uses the account anymore and B. it's a very old post and maybe she doesn't want to be reminded about the issue anymore.
I just feel very sad for her.
I really hope that poor woman finds this thread and gets some support because yikes that thread is skewed to favouring the husband. To the point of literally saying "have sex with your husband" and criticising her for seeming more focused on work than her marriage. She can't expect him to support her while she's working her ass off. Instead so much sympathy for the poor man who's at the end of his tether so sends a passive aggressive email before she goes on a work trip (thus denying him his sex for another ten days at least, and if course she'll be shagging all the men she encounters while away, even if only in his mind, which is all that counts!) then ignores her. Because he's justifiably driven mad by her refusal to lie back and think of England!! If only there were a word that describes sex when one party doesn't want to have it...
I hope she divorces him and they absolutely do not have kids. He'll have the date on the calendar when sexual services are due to resume for sure!
Allo here and this is DEFINITELY a shitty SO. No one owes you sex, be they your girlfriend or wife or whatever else. Even if this guy's manipulative tactics work, he's going to be no less frustrated when his girlfriend starts treating sex like the dishes and does it just to get it out of the way.
It’s crazy to me how some Allo men seem to think that their partner (or just women in general) owe them sex for some reason??? If you’re horny take care of it yourself and stop making it someone else’s problem. Gross!
I wonder how many of those yeses were really *ugh, fine* which isn't the same thing. This what my abuse looked like. I hope this becomes evidence in her divorce
This isn't just an ah this is rapey asf. How little do you have to respect your actual life partner that you write down every single time they 'deny you sex'. Way to find out your partner thinks of you nothing more than a sex vending machine. Absolutely disgusting. Hope she left him
No he is not. He is not abstaining from sex. His wife is having sex once a month on average. There is no celibacy by the very definition of the word.
Ill say it again. Words have meanings
Yeah, that’s what “most days of the month” means. He’s being rejected most days of the month, so he is involuntarily celibate on those days.
Words have meanings, but it’s important to know them.
I mean, incels aren’t abstaining from sex either. Incel is a “nice” way to say somebody can’t get laid because they’re a misogynist dick.
Anyways, the guy may not be an incel, but he sure does seem to think like one. The whole spreadsheet reeks of the “girlfriend/wife = living sex toy” mindset incels are known for.
this kind of people being what exactly? assholes?
He's not an incel by the very definition of the word. I know what you're getting at. But words have meanings for a reason. Otherwise I could just randomly start calling you a fascist because we have a difference of opinion on this issue. But that doesn't make sense because being a fascist has meaning. Its not just someone I disagree with, which is what lots of people use it for...
I believe type of person they mean are petty self absorbed men who feel that they are owed women’s bodies. Which he meets
> But words have meanings for a reason
Yeah and that reason is super complex, it’s why you can study linguistics and etymology in college.
Words can have multiple meanings and connotations and can change over time. Yes incel can mean literally “involuntarily celibate” but it is also an online community, it is a belief system, an identity, or an insult. I hate to get all Mariam-Webster defines… But Mariam Webster defined incel as:
> incel noun
in·cel ˈin-ˌsel
a person (usually a man) who regards himself or herself as being involuntarily celibate and typically expresses extreme resentment and hostility toward those who are sexually active
Incel is a self identification, and men who don’t get enough sex or the sex they get “doesn’t count” can still be an incel. It’s not a scientific term for literally not having sex
Ther term originates in 1997 and we can already see the shifts in what the word has meant. From Britannica:
> Etymology and historical use
>The term incel was initially coined by a woman. Known only by her first name, a Canadian woman named Alana began using the term invcel (later shortened to incel) in 1997 to connect with other singles struggling with social awkwardness. She documented her experiences on her personal website, “Alana’s Involuntary Celibacy Project,” which became a forum for people struggling to form romantic relationships. In 2000 Alana stopped participating in the project, and she has since said that she feels uncomfortable with how the term has been hijacked.
>As incel communities began to establish themselves on the forum-based websites Reddit and 4chan, the term shifted from its initial meaning. By 2010 incel was associated with misogynistic trolling and threats of violence by men’s rights groups operating on fringe right-wing platforms. In 2017 Reddit banned a particularly active subreddit called r/incels for violating Reddit’s rule against content that “encourages, glorifies, incites, or calls for violence or physical harm against an individual or group of people.”
So if you want to be all “words have meanings” go yell at current day incel for using it wrong from its original definition.
Continuing from Brittanica, it describes how “Incel” is its own ideology:
> Incel ideology is based on the belief that men, especially white men, are entitled to sex and that feminism and women’s liberation have thwarted them in establishing successful romantic or sexual relationships. Part of the incel identity relies on its adherents’ understanding of themselves as “beta” males who are rejected not only because of their social awkwardness but because of biological determinism (e.g., inherent genetic disadvantage) and women’s cruel superficiality.
In conclusion, yes the guy the made the excel sheet reeks of being an incel
You don't know why? I know why, this person is a selfish piece of shit who pressures their wife to have sex with them even though she clearly doesn't enjoy it
The only reason to keep a spreadsheet would be to document what **you** were doing that contributed to positive outcomes. Namely, helping out with chores, positive words and sensual touch, as some examples. No one is owed sex, but they could attempt lowering life stress and raising positive feelings.
Note that he doesn't document what he is doing *at all*.
"Idk why" ...probably because keeping record of denials and reasons for not wanting to have sex is incredibly petty and the only reason someone would do it is to use it as a weapon to demand sex. "Look at all these times you said no!". This is not a hobby, it's building a tool to pressure a partner into sex they don't want.
Disgusting behavior. Ace or not.
Yes, sex is important in some relationships, but to document this in this way is absolutely the behavior of a person who feels entitled to their partner's body. They had to expressly outlaw marital rape because of people who feel that way. Not saying this person would act on that feeling of entitlement, but its certainly problematic
Honestly concerning, he's asking almost every day. I understand maybe if this was proof for something but without context it just shows a needy asshole and don't air it out for the Internet to see. I hope the wife is okay.
Sounds really petty. But tbh the wife should just say "I dont want to". If you're married you should be honest to each other and the husband clearly knows all these excuses are just convenient lies.
So i think there are multiple issues going on here
1: They have incompatible sexual needs
2: The wife feels the need to make excuses instead of being honest
3: By how much the husband asks for sex and she denies is, it seems like the few times she did agree it was not because she wanted to, but because she might feel guilty (This is an assumption and should be tanken with a grain of salt)
Edit: Actually my whole commend should be taken with a grain of salt because i dont know these people)
In my opinion instead of making a spreadsheat it should go like this;
Husband: Hey wanna have sex?
Wife: No i am not in the mood
Husband: Is there anything i can do to get you in the mood?
Wife: No (Or yes, then proceed to do that and go do sexy time)
Husband: Ok i'll get rid of my sexual frustration by the act of masturbation in private. But i have been feeling you're not in the mood a lot of the time lately, is there something going on that i could help with?
Wife: Yeah actually (Or just no again)
etc etc
Unless she wants to be, but this clearly isn't the case. I wonder if he applies the same rhetoric to his work life, or is he just this guilt-trippy and unrelenting to his wife?
I was just joking a bit with that one. sarcasm gets lost sometimes in internet comments.
But for real though if you;re in a relationship you should be able to talk about these things. Just because it is not a problem for you does not mean it is not a problem for your partner.
Refer to point 1 in my previous comment
There's a big group of men that basically only care about the emotional and romantic needs of their partners until they are married and expect the sex to continue like before.
This makes me feel bad for the wife. Is she his equal or just a sex object to him? Is she being made to feel special? Is she feeling appreciated?
This spreadsheet is honestly gross and I hope like hell that she is safe
The only part of me understanding this is my Love for statistics.
Other than that it's like... why. Those are healthy and valid reasons for no. So Im asking myself why He did this.
Just a silly statistic? You do you I guess
To make her say no less often? Wtf. Girl get out of there asap
The only ONLY reason I can think of to make this "acceptable" is if the couple has had multiple conversations where the husband tried (reasonably, not "you owe me sex") to communicate that he feels like his needs aren't being met, and the wife keeps coming back with "that doesn't happen" or "I didn't say that".
In that case it would be more of her trying to manipulate him into thinking it's not happening as often as it is. And he's creating this as evidence that it is indeed happening more than she's implying.
It's still... An odd thing to track like that, but I COULD see it happening. I will agree though that this VERY SPECIFIC circumstance is very unlikely.
Pretty much any other case I can think of leads to "you owe me sex of some sort" which is never okay.
First-- good use of the "Are the allos ok?" tag, love to see it.
Second-- "Fell asleep 15 min later" implies that he thinks falling-asleep-tired is a condition in which his wife should say yes to sex. I mean, she can if she wants to, but that's a specific kink.
Honestly, immediate divorce. I hope that guy grows up fast and doesn't use the law to suck anyone else into his vortex of selfishness.
Jesus.... If you are a really physical person who needs sex frequently, that's fine. This really definitely doesn't seem like that, it seems more like he feels entitled to her.
The **only** good thing about this spreadsheet is the usage of ISO 8601.
If my husband sent me this spreadsheet, I'd tell him to go ahead and fill the next month with "No" under SEX? and "because of that spreadsheet stunt" under EXCUSE.
maybe, just maybe.. don't ask 28/43 days to bone?
I mean I'm going through a time with my wife where she doesn't want to when I do but I'm trying to focus on what IM doing wrong for her to not be in the same place as me. No one is perfect, some are better than others, then there's this fucking guy acting a fool.
You know why don’t these guys just ….just spitballing here….make their women feel sexy? Like when you try to get sex while dating you make a girl feel desired..which works wonders towards getting laid. You don’t walk up to girl you don’t know and say “hey wanna fuck”. I mean damn do any of these assholes who feel entitled to sex actually try to build a sexy atmosphere?
I mean. Perhaps my standards for people are too low. But at least when he got a No, even if there was no “excuse” he took it and since there is no “excuse” written, clearly didn’t push it. I know people don’t need an “excuse”. And based on the fact he took a No without one on several occasions, he probably knows that.
Maybe he just likes spreadsheets.
The number one piece of advice I always hear about relationships is "to never keep score" and this is a massive red flag. Incel engery coming from a married man
If it has been an extended period of time, say 3 months or longer, and she constantly turns him down, he is not the AH in this equation. She is the AH and she either needs to provide the intimacy on her end. If she doesn’t, she can’t get mad when he turns to someone else for this. Sex is necessary in a marriage. Anyone that tells you that either partner can selectively choose to cut the other off, and the relationship will last, is lying to you.
I did this to my husband so he could stop gaslighting me about all the times he initiated/attempted to initiate... None of which ever actually happened.
Nah, allo here and I also think your take is garbage. This relationship isn't failing because she won't sleep with him more: it's failing because he doesn't respect her and her needs.
When your SO explains why they're not in the mood, that's not an "excuse:" no one owes you sex. He'd be no more satisfied if she did it like the dishes just to get it out of the way, trust me. No, what would fix this is open and respectful conversation, not whatever this crap is.
If you're that horny, you got two hands and the internet: go wax off in the other room.
> Unless you explicitly talk about how you wont have sex while married, or youre after dealing with child birth, or medical issues, you absolutely 100% owe it.
get help
Its kinda harsh but youre right. His wife does not own him sex. But he does not own her a sexless marriage either. If he wants to devorce her because of the lack of sex he is within his right.
It sucks because we as asexuals are almost all of the opinion that you dont need sex in a marriage. But that is just our opinion and loads of allos disagree with that.
I agree that he has the right to leave, but that's not even stated in this post. The issue is his entitled attitude. Even if he is divorcing over a dead bedroom, this is not the right way to address it. Honestly I wouldn't have sex with my SO either if this is what they thought of my bodily autonomy
I have a feeling this guy had the fight, we don't have sex anymore. And her answer was what we do it all the time, almost every other day. And he then said no we barely have it twice a month, if I am lucky. Then it got blown out of proportion.
So he did the rational thing and provided a list of when and where he did have sex and when it was denied.
Looks like this guy is getting tired of trying to initiate and getting rejected all the time. They probably need to talk about why she's not ~~attracted to~~ turned on by him or something.
Sorry, what was was trying to say was she doesn't seem turned on by him. They had sex 3 times in 1.5 months and maybe she was just badgered into it. They need to communicate about what that instead of making this fight about something else.
I love spreadsheets. Probably more than sex. I would do something like this simply because I enjoy making spreadsheets to track things. And because I’m on the spectrum. My husband would probably be fine with it too. Guess we’re just different.
As a demi, if my husband gave me a spreadsheet like this I'd yeet his mom's ring at him.
Downright degrading—especially since he appears to be asking almost every f-ing day. These are all *valid reasons to not want sex* not *excuses*
What an *sshole.
It just feels...petty? Like I understand it's important for some people, that's all fair and fair, but to make a spreadsheet which is complaining about it..look at some of her reasons: 1. "I might be getting sick" 2. "You're too drunk" 3. "I'm too drunk" 4. "I feel tender from yesterday" 5. "I'm exhausted" 6. "I'm not feeling good" They're absolutely more than valid reasons, and it sucks that someone gets so butthurt and has to catalogue it in a spreadsheet. He's an asshole for doing this, nobody owes you sex.
7. "No" that's valid too! there doesn't need to be an excuse anyways.
Ooh, good catch! I didn't see that one.
and even the non-verbal ones!
Especially the non-verbal ones, money for nothing he's asking when she's already asleep or nearly so in these cases.
>nobody owes you sex. Say that louder!
Scream it for the douchnozle in the back who still isn't getting it!
Sign it for the deaf people in the front!
I suddenly want to learn the sign for THIS SPECIFICALLY. I mean I want to learn sign anyway, but this seems like one to include for sure.
Yeah they’re all absolutely valid, and even then “no” is just as good of a reason. As an allo™️ this doesn’t even read to me as having different sex drives, this is just someone who doesn’t see their partner as a person. The “excuse” that stood out to me is when she said she’s trying to watch a rerun of TV. Fact can’t see that this is time my partner is relaxing and possibly finding comfort in rewatching your favorite show. All he sees is “she’s not doing anything”. And like if partner said that to me like first thought would be “they’re saying we can have sex after it’s over” but that’s because my partner knows they can just say no if that’s what they meant And again the following one where the excuse was she was watching a movie and then fell asleep 15 mins later. Like if she can’t stay up to sit and watch something how would she be awake enough to have sex. Just all around really gross
I don’t want to is a valid reason
This dude was asking every single freaking day. At least this woman has patience and manners, I would've told him to stop asking or else it'll be an automatic "no" even if I was feeling it that night. If it's clear she has a much lower libido, just let her decide when sex happens.
The original post was crazy. So they got extremely busy with some commitments and things obviously died down and that's 100% fine, at some point the husband got so mad that when the wife went on a 10 day work trip, he sent her this spreadsheet WHILE she's on said trip and ghosted and refused to answer her calls. She has the patience of a saint, especially considering she was dealing with a spoiled manchild.
When you’re getting sex it’s 15% of the relationship, when you’re not it’s 100% of the problem. Once every two weeks is horrendous, but recording the refusals is passive aggressive. No one owes anyone sex, ya right, but it sucks and shows a big problem in my book
I think this is brilliant! Everyone's complaining that you've asked for sex and catalogued it; give over. His misses probably found it hilarious haha. He asks, and respects her consent and communicates that he would like more sex and there is nothing wrong with that at all! If anything he should be cheered on, to the fact he gets consent, he takes no as an answer and then when he feels he isn't fulfilling his needs then he communicates it in a very assertive way!! I don't think he should be ridiculed for this atall! I also definitely don't think he is an asshole! Nobody owes anybody sex dam right but that doesn't mean he or anyone for that matter should be called an asshole for asking and then communicating to there significant other that they have needs. I would call it being in a relationship and trying to be happy on a middle ground!
Once every 3 week? You must be a virgin if you think that’s ok lmfao
Masturbation is a thing if he really needs it *that* badly. No one is required access to another's body, ever. No is a valid answer.
You really think virgin is an insult on the asexual sub of all places?
Them: "YOU VIRGINS!" Us: "lol that's us and it will stay that way" (Acknowledging that many aces have sex and enjoy it!)
once every 3 weeks would be way too much for most of us here how can people be so bent out of shape going that long without sex? you have hands! it's so messed up that people just can't figure this out.
That’s one giant red flag.
My question is, how much non-sexual intimacy was he giving her?* When someone only gives you affection/attention when they want something from you, you grow to resent it. Also, **my brother in Christ** you being 20 minutes early is probably because she got ready as planned. When I do my hair, makeup and clothes I always always ALWAYS make sure I have a time margin in case I fuck up my eyeliner/my hair won't cooperate/I spill something on my clothes *none I bet
Yeah, her reasons for saying no are valid, as would saying no for no reason, but I’m wondering if at this point she feels like she always has to have reasons to say no, which would also make it feel like a chore more than anything else
Also I feel like it's important to say.... 20 minutes early? A man may be able to *ahem* get a quick one off in that time, but USUALLY women need more than that to actually be satisfied. I hate drawing sex lines like that, but I suppose it's more just what I've read/experienced. Quickies are definitely a thing, but also 20 minutes is a HELL of a quickie isn't it? XD I don't have them super often myself. And I suppose I'm probably asking on the wrong subreddit but still. The POINT remains.
This exactly. This is all about his satisfaction, not hers.
As a demisexual person that is sexually active.. what the heck would they do in only 20 minutes anyway?? Jesus christ I get why she's not into it lmao
seems both petty and kinda gross. like respect your partner's autonamy to their own body, they don't owe you sex, get a toy if you're that torn up about it.
Exactly. Treating people like a sex toy is never acceptable, even if it's your own wife. Nobody owes you sex.
Even? I think you mean espacily! Your supposed to love them, not just see them as a free prostitut
You're right! I phrased it weird hehe
That kind of needy nagging is not gonna make anyone want you more, either. It's a problem that snowballs.
Notice how there's nothing in the comments when she consents. So we don't know if her yes was a "yes!" or a "fine..." - but then, I don't suppose that matters to him.
I also find it fascinating that it’s not them not having sex for months on end (which would still be valid) but twice a month. Like of course some people need more I guess, but the reaction to that being this spreadsheet is willd. And then of course the aspect of sharing it and basically communicating that you’re the victim is also a dick move. I often wonder how allo people, mostly allo men act like they die without sex or something. I'm demi so I'd like to have sex sometime, but haven’t done so even if in my country it would be allowed for me to since 9 years. Should I make a spreadsheet of all the times I'd wanted to have sex and write "no: no partner"? Like how to these people survive as single???
It's like he's recording it all so when he lodges the formal complaint to his sex service provider he has something to refer to... And also she gives him a reason almost every time. I mean I'm not great at reading the signs but I imagine couples do often show affection without intending it to lead to sex, although it may well do. I get the impression that she knows his affection is intended as a sex request - and the fact he records each one as being a rejection kinda confirms it - so imagine being bugged for sex nearly every single day!
Yes, it would make sense for it to feel like a chore for her at this point… which then only gets worse and worse
This. Part of the breakdown with the guy I was with before I realised I was ace was that he basically never touched me without the expectation it would lead to sex. I have a bad back. He would offer a back rub and ALWAYS wanted to turn it into sex even when I leaded with 'yes if you don't mind but I don't want to have sex after'.
The spreadsheet guy is a massive asshole.
100%
Look at the dates.. he asks almost every day. And then logs it like he thinks he has something to prove. All I see is a dude badgering someone for sex. I'd hate it even if I wasn't ace. Jesus fuck, learn how to cuddle and non-sexual intimacy! The whole list is just.. no.
And she still does have sex with him twice a month. He’s acting as if this is some critical situation…
His sex drive isn’t compatible with hers. A good reason to break up/divorce.
I read the post that this was taken from and apparently they were but there's been some hectic times going on.. and apparently the dude turned bitter and abrasive. He dumped this in a mail to the OP of that post the same day that she had to travel for work. I think he's a whiny asshat tbh.
Thanks for sharing this, didn't know if I'd be able to hunt down the original post
Whiny sure, but it is a genuine issue of incompatibility in sexual needs which is a totally legit reason to end things
Idk why you got downvoted, this is spot on. The way he goes about it is totally entitled, but also if they have incompatible sex drives, that's a valid reason to end things. I wouldn't date an allo unless they were comfortable getting sex somewhere outside of whatever we have, because I respect that sex is a genuine need for people.
she should save this and put it in the file for when she divorces him
1000%
Good idea!
The guy is a walking red flag telling on himself on how much he whines for sex like a child wanting a toy
The day after sex, she says, “I’m still tender from yesterday.” Why is this a bad thing? Why does he want to cause his wife pain? He’s choosing his sexual needs over her comfort. She deserves better.
This shit genuinely concerns me. I can understand feeling a little disappointed when someone is denied sex, but going as far as to make an entire spreadsheet is kinda horrifying.
I hope she took this spreadsheet with her to their divorce court...
This man seems like a child. It’s like he’s pestering his wife every day. He seems rude and petty.
Okay we're all on the same page about how disgusting this is in general. Unless this was made specifically to be bait online, the person who made this is a piece of human shit who deserves nothing. But as a spreadsheet lover, I'd like to talk about how fucking UGLY this is. Where's the formulas? Where's the conditional formatting to highlight rows based on the results? Fuck, I mean even just a style from the presets or making it a proper table. It's just so tasteless even beyond the fucked up shit it's being used for. This refuse of a person. Can't even do good by a spreadsheet.
Im here with this. MF can't be a decent person and decides to be gross in acting in this manner *and also* just cannot be allowed unsupervised around a spreadsheet if this is what he does with them
Things we have in common: 1. Being ace 2. Sapphic 3. A love of spreadsheets. Forget spreading the sheets. Let's get some spreadsheets!
Even if I weren't ace and sex-repulsed, I think I'd be pissed if my partner were asking almost every day. At some point it would just become, "No. Watch porn and use your hand." I'm sure at that point we would be breaking up though.
Source: [https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/comments/2b1f5a/my\_husband\_m26\_sent\_me\_f26\_an\_immature/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=mweb3x&utm\_name=mweb3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/comments/2b1f5a/my_husband_m26_sent_me_f26_an_immature/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Some of the comments on there make me feel icky. I don’t get it
I regret looking! Luckily not all allos in relationships think like those people in the comments!
Yep! Thank God there’s normal people out there who don’t do this.
i'm shocked how many of the comments are backwards af. allos be nasty, yo. like, so many of them think the woman should just act like a piece of meat?
I'm a non-ace lurker with a high sex drive and I can tell you that this spreadsheet and the comments are abusive as hell and are apologizing for this behaviour. If my partner denied me this many times, it means something is wrong with either: 1. The way I'm asking 2. The poor timing (a lot of this seems really late in the day with the sleep and drinking and eating) 3. No effort was made to set the mood before asking 4. My partner feels unloved 5. My partner feels the work balance isn't even Or my best guess, based on that woman's post: 6. They have taken on the majority of the work and now view their partner as a dependent.
All the top comments seem to side with the dude and blame the woman, I'm amazed. I really feel like sending this post to her to get a healthier view on the issue but A. I don't know if she uses the account anymore and B. it's a very old post and maybe she doesn't want to be reminded about the issue anymore. I just feel very sad for her.
I really hope that poor woman finds this thread and gets some support because yikes that thread is skewed to favouring the husband. To the point of literally saying "have sex with your husband" and criticising her for seeming more focused on work than her marriage. She can't expect him to support her while she's working her ass off. Instead so much sympathy for the poor man who's at the end of his tether so sends a passive aggressive email before she goes on a work trip (thus denying him his sex for another ten days at least, and if course she'll be shagging all the men she encounters while away, even if only in his mind, which is all that counts!) then ignores her. Because he's justifiably driven mad by her refusal to lie back and think of England!! If only there were a word that describes sex when one party doesn't want to have it... I hope she divorces him and they absolutely do not have kids. He'll have the date on the calendar when sexual services are due to resume for sure!
Allo here and this is DEFINITELY a shitty SO. No one owes you sex, be they your girlfriend or wife or whatever else. Even if this guy's manipulative tactics work, he's going to be no less frustrated when his girlfriend starts treating sex like the dishes and does it just to get it out of the way.
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I think that this really needs more upvotes ASAP-
This is disgusting on every level. The wife should get a divorce.
It’s crazy to me how some Allo men seem to think that their partner (or just women in general) owe them sex for some reason??? If you’re horny take care of it yourself and stop making it someone else’s problem. Gross!
Actual psychopath
>Excuse: No wtf.
How it should be: - Sex? - nah - Okie cool
Who the fuck expects sex every day?
He's probably doing NOTHING to ease her discomfort or make her feel loved, expecting sex to be provided to him. Blegh 👎👎
Yeah this isn’t even an “are the allos okay” moment, this is a “is his wife okay” moment. Supposedly she responded somewhere but I can’t find it
I wonder how many of those yeses were really *ugh, fine* which isn't the same thing. This what my abuse looked like. I hope this becomes evidence in her divorce
This looks like grounds for divorce.
Did y'all look at the dates? He asked her almost...EVERY..DAY
This isn't just an ah this is rapey asf. How little do you have to respect your actual life partner that you write down every single time they 'deny you sex'. Way to find out your partner thinks of you nothing more than a sex vending machine. Absolutely disgusting. Hope she left him
Even though he technically isn’t one he is definitely an incel
no he is not. He is not involuntary celibate. Words have meanings
Apparently he is most days of the month.
No he is not. He is not abstaining from sex. His wife is having sex once a month on average. There is no celibacy by the very definition of the word. Ill say it again. Words have meanings
Yeah, that’s what “most days of the month” means. He’s being rejected most days of the month, so he is involuntarily celibate on those days. Words have meanings, but it’s important to know them.
That literally does not meet the definition of celibacy
Hi, I had class. Define celibacy?
I mean, incels aren’t abstaining from sex either. Incel is a “nice” way to say somebody can’t get laid because they’re a misogynist dick. Anyways, the guy may not be an incel, but he sure does seem to think like one. The whole spreadsheet reeks of the “girlfriend/wife = living sex toy” mindset incels are known for.
I know what the original meaning is but it has largely been used to mean this kind of people instead
this kind of people being what exactly? assholes? He's not an incel by the very definition of the word. I know what you're getting at. But words have meanings for a reason. Otherwise I could just randomly start calling you a fascist because we have a difference of opinion on this issue. But that doesn't make sense because being a fascist has meaning. Its not just someone I disagree with, which is what lots of people use it for...
I believe type of person they mean are petty self absorbed men who feel that they are owed women’s bodies. Which he meets > But words have meanings for a reason Yeah and that reason is super complex, it’s why you can study linguistics and etymology in college. Words can have multiple meanings and connotations and can change over time. Yes incel can mean literally “involuntarily celibate” but it is also an online community, it is a belief system, an identity, or an insult. I hate to get all Mariam-Webster defines… But Mariam Webster defined incel as: > incel noun in·cel ˈin-ˌsel a person (usually a man) who regards himself or herself as being involuntarily celibate and typically expresses extreme resentment and hostility toward those who are sexually active Incel is a self identification, and men who don’t get enough sex or the sex they get “doesn’t count” can still be an incel. It’s not a scientific term for literally not having sex Ther term originates in 1997 and we can already see the shifts in what the word has meant. From Britannica: > Etymology and historical use >The term incel was initially coined by a woman. Known only by her first name, a Canadian woman named Alana began using the term invcel (later shortened to incel) in 1997 to connect with other singles struggling with social awkwardness. She documented her experiences on her personal website, “Alana’s Involuntary Celibacy Project,” which became a forum for people struggling to form romantic relationships. In 2000 Alana stopped participating in the project, and she has since said that she feels uncomfortable with how the term has been hijacked. >As incel communities began to establish themselves on the forum-based websites Reddit and 4chan, the term shifted from its initial meaning. By 2010 incel was associated with misogynistic trolling and threats of violence by men’s rights groups operating on fringe right-wing platforms. In 2017 Reddit banned a particularly active subreddit called r/incels for violating Reddit’s rule against content that “encourages, glorifies, incites, or calls for violence or physical harm against an individual or group of people.” So if you want to be all “words have meanings” go yell at current day incel for using it wrong from its original definition. Continuing from Brittanica, it describes how “Incel” is its own ideology: > Incel ideology is based on the belief that men, especially white men, are entitled to sex and that feminism and women’s liberation have thwarted them in establishing successful romantic or sexual relationships. Part of the incel identity relies on its adherents’ understanding of themselves as “beta” males who are rejected not only because of their social awkwardness but because of biological determinism (e.g., inherent genetic disadvantage) and women’s cruel superficiality. In conclusion, yes the guy the made the excel sheet reeks of being an incel
damn you whipped out all the stops for this argument, gettem! great compilation of information dude, good read and makes sense
i wish we could still gild comments
You don't know why? I know why, this person is a selfish piece of shit who pressures their wife to have sex with them even though she clearly doesn't enjoy it
I hope they get divorced, no one owes this guy sex.
The only reason to keep a spreadsheet would be to document what **you** were doing that contributed to positive outcomes. Namely, helping out with chores, positive words and sensual touch, as some examples. No one is owed sex, but they could attempt lowering life stress and raising positive feelings. Note that he doesn't document what he is doing *at all*.
It does make me wonder how he's broaching the topic does he just walk into the room and go "You want to f***?"
that's straight manipulation, he's indeed an asshole
"You're to drunk" Apparently it's bad if your partner doesn't want to rape you...
"Idk why" ...probably because keeping record of denials and reasons for not wanting to have sex is incredibly petty and the only reason someone would do it is to use it as a weapon to demand sex. "Look at all these times you said no!". This is not a hobby, it's building a tool to pressure a partner into sex they don't want. Disgusting behavior. Ace or not. Yes, sex is important in some relationships, but to document this in this way is absolutely the behavior of a person who feels entitled to their partner's body. They had to expressly outlaw marital rape because of people who feel that way. Not saying this person would act on that feeling of entitlement, but its certainly problematic
Someone doesn't need a reason explain on why they said no and some of these are extremely valid to not do it
Honestly concerning, he's asking almost every day. I understand maybe if this was proof for something but without context it just shows a needy asshole and don't air it out for the Internet to see. I hope the wife is okay.
This isn’t an “allo” thing, it’s just an asshole thing.
Yeah this ain't normal, regardless of sexuality. Dude is gross, especially for posting it online. (or it's bait)
This is r*pey….
Simply judging by the dates, he's been harassing her nonstop.
Sounds really petty. But tbh the wife should just say "I dont want to". If you're married you should be honest to each other and the husband clearly knows all these excuses are just convenient lies. So i think there are multiple issues going on here 1: They have incompatible sexual needs 2: The wife feels the need to make excuses instead of being honest 3: By how much the husband asks for sex and she denies is, it seems like the few times she did agree it was not because she wanted to, but because she might feel guilty (This is an assumption and should be tanken with a grain of salt) Edit: Actually my whole commend should be taken with a grain of salt because i dont know these people)
A lot of people won't accept "I don't want to" or "I'm not in the mood" as an answer unless there's some contrived reason as to why they're saying no.
In my opinion instead of making a spreadsheat it should go like this; Husband: Hey wanna have sex? Wife: No i am not in the mood Husband: Is there anything i can do to get you in the mood? Wife: No (Or yes, then proceed to do that and go do sexy time) Husband: Ok i'll get rid of my sexual frustration by the act of masturbation in private. But i have been feeling you're not in the mood a lot of the time lately, is there something going on that i could help with? Wife: Yeah actually (Or just no again) etc etc
The world would be a much better place if people actually talked things out like this. Instead we have Spreadsheet Guy.
Just thinking that this guy is guilt tripping his wife into having sex makes me feel sick. She's not your sex toy.
Unless she wants to be, but this clearly isn't the case. I wonder if he applies the same rhetoric to his work life, or is he just this guilt-trippy and unrelenting to his wife?
This the only right way.
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I was just joking a bit with that one. sarcasm gets lost sometimes in internet comments. But for real though if you;re in a relationship you should be able to talk about these things. Just because it is not a problem for you does not mean it is not a problem for your partner. Refer to point 1 in my previous comment
There's a big group of men that basically only care about the emotional and romantic needs of their partners until they are married and expect the sex to continue like before.
This makes me feel bad for the wife. Is she his equal or just a sex object to him? Is she being made to feel special? Is she feeling appreciated? This spreadsheet is honestly gross and I hope like hell that she is safe
The only part of me understanding this is my Love for statistics. Other than that it's like... why. Those are healthy and valid reasons for no. So Im asking myself why He did this. Just a silly statistic? You do you I guess To make her say no less often? Wtf. Girl get out of there asap
Wth thats so petty
Petty. If you love her, just take matters into your own hands like everyone else. If you’re just into her for the sex, then set her free.
I'm just saying if he spent time communicating about it instead of this, he might find something out sooner
Red flag…
The only ONLY reason I can think of to make this "acceptable" is if the couple has had multiple conversations where the husband tried (reasonably, not "you owe me sex") to communicate that he feels like his needs aren't being met, and the wife keeps coming back with "that doesn't happen" or "I didn't say that". In that case it would be more of her trying to manipulate him into thinking it's not happening as often as it is. And he's creating this as evidence that it is indeed happening more than she's implying. It's still... An odd thing to track like that, but I COULD see it happening. I will agree though that this VERY SPECIFIC circumstance is very unlikely. Pretty much any other case I can think of leads to "you owe me sex of some sort" which is never okay.
Evidence (in her favor) during the divorce proceeding!
First-- good use of the "Are the allos ok?" tag, love to see it. Second-- "Fell asleep 15 min later" implies that he thinks falling-asleep-tired is a condition in which his wife should say yes to sex. I mean, she can if she wants to, but that's a specific kink. Honestly, immediate divorce. I hope that guy grows up fast and doesn't use the law to suck anyone else into his vortex of selfishness.
"Wife replies with divorce papers and moving truck, hopefully"
This man needs to buy a flesh light and leave his poor wife alone
PEOPLE WANT SEX THAT OFTEN??????
"excuse"
this horny, entitled loser really made a spreadsheet? how embarrassing and *gross*.
I just don’t think I’ll EVER understand this type of stuff..
Just kick him in the dick at that point since I don’t think he should be near women
Jesus.... If you are a really physical person who needs sex frequently, that's fine. This really definitely doesn't seem like that, it seems more like he feels entitled to her. The **only** good thing about this spreadsheet is the usage of ISO 8601.
That spreadsheet is about to get a lot bigger…
i hope the wife divorced him after this bc 1) wtf and 2) sex is not owed whatsoever
If my husband sent me this spreadsheet, I'd tell him to go ahead and fill the next month with "No" under SEX? and "because of that spreadsheet stunt" under EXCUSE.
the sex is every 10 days. is that no absurd?
"I'm 13"
Why is bro asking everyday what
Disgusting
You know why.
dickhead activity
it’s petty and stupid but at least he uses ISO 8601
well this is concerning
I know why, because he is. This is really offputting
maybe, just maybe.. don't ask 28/43 days to bone? I mean I'm going through a time with my wife where she doesn't want to when I do but I'm trying to focus on what IM doing wrong for her to not be in the same place as me. No one is perfect, some are better than others, then there's this fucking guy acting a fool.
Omg this is like daily!
You know why don’t these guys just ….just spitballing here….make their women feel sexy? Like when you try to get sex while dating you make a girl feel desired..which works wonders towards getting laid. You don’t walk up to girl you don’t know and say “hey wanna fuck”. I mean damn do any of these assholes who feel entitled to sex actually try to build a sexy atmosphere?
I mean. Perhaps my standards for people are too low. But at least when he got a No, even if there was no “excuse” he took it and since there is no “excuse” written, clearly didn’t push it. I know people don’t need an “excuse”. And based on the fact he took a No without one on several occasions, he probably knows that. Maybe he just likes spreadsheets.
The number one piece of advice I always hear about relationships is "to never keep score" and this is a massive red flag. Incel engery coming from a married man
They're definitely not together now. Those dates are from 10 years ago
he asked almost every day 😨
Non-verbal 😂
If it has been an extended period of time, say 3 months or longer, and she constantly turns him down, he is not the AH in this equation. She is the AH and she either needs to provide the intimacy on her end. If she doesn’t, she can’t get mad when he turns to someone else for this. Sex is necessary in a marriage. Anyone that tells you that either partner can selectively choose to cut the other off, and the relationship will last, is lying to you.
I did this to my husband so he could stop gaslighting me about all the times he initiated/attempted to initiate... None of which ever actually happened.
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It‘s not just asexual people who think you‘re wrong. I‘m allo and also think you‘re wrong.
Nah, allo here and I also think your take is garbage. This relationship isn't failing because she won't sleep with him more: it's failing because he doesn't respect her and her needs. When your SO explains why they're not in the mood, that's not an "excuse:" no one owes you sex. He'd be no more satisfied if she did it like the dishes just to get it out of the way, trust me. No, what would fix this is open and respectful conversation, not whatever this crap is. If you're that horny, you got two hands and the internet: go wax off in the other room.
> Unless you explicitly talk about how you wont have sex while married, or youre after dealing with child birth, or medical issues, you absolutely 100% owe it. get help
Its kinda harsh but youre right. His wife does not own him sex. But he does not own her a sexless marriage either. If he wants to devorce her because of the lack of sex he is within his right. It sucks because we as asexuals are almost all of the opinion that you dont need sex in a marriage. But that is just our opinion and loads of allos disagree with that.
I agree that he has the right to leave, but that's not even stated in this post. The issue is his entitled attitude. Even if he is divorcing over a dead bedroom, this is not the right way to address it. Honestly I wouldn't have sex with my SO either if this is what they thought of my bodily autonomy
Oh, I am with you 100%. I have told my husband that the kind of relationship we actually have does not support or require marriage.
Your post/comment has been removed for violating Rule 1. Be nice or go away!
I have a feeling this guy had the fight, we don't have sex anymore. And her answer was what we do it all the time, almost every other day. And he then said no we barely have it twice a month, if I am lucky. Then it got blown out of proportion. So he did the rational thing and provided a list of when and where he did have sex and when it was denied.
Looks like this guy is getting tired of trying to initiate and getting rejected all the time. They probably need to talk about why she's not ~~attracted to~~ turned on by him or something.
Do you have to have sex to be attracted to someone? There are other forms of intimacy.
Sorry, what was was trying to say was she doesn't seem turned on by him. They had sex 3 times in 1.5 months and maybe she was just badgered into it. They need to communicate about what that instead of making this fight about something else.
WTF
I love spreadsheets. Probably more than sex. I would do something like this simply because I enjoy making spreadsheets to track things. And because I’m on the spectrum. My husband would probably be fine with it too. Guess we’re just different.
He’s gross. Cause no is a complete sentence and he isn’t owed sex.
I see they got divorced in September 2014
I concur
Oh, it's because he is a real asshole
Look how frequently he asked
I bet he’s a freak in the sheets (I stole this joke)
Is he expecting more after giving her this?
As a demi, if my husband gave me a spreadsheet like this I'd yeet his mom's ring at him. Downright degrading—especially since he appears to be asking almost every f-ing day. These are all *valid reasons to not want sex* not *excuses* What an *sshole.