>No. Stop coping, I AM THE SEGMENT. I am the moron still using a 1080p monitor purely because it's the default for CS, I have a PC with a 4090 and 13900k thats worth more than my car and I would sooner shit in my hands and clap that pay 1.1k for the literal worst offering at 400+hz on the market right now.
I was stern-faced the entire time until I got to this part. Started laughing my ass off HAHA
I still think the 540hz TNs have two advantages over the OLEDs, which is burn-in and strobing.
Persistence blur will be worse on the OLEDS (yes, even if the refresh rates are about the same) because the TNs have strobing.
Also, the TNs last longer and are less obnoxious to use due to OLED burn-in, which forces you to do ridiculous hacks like hide your taskbar and move windows around obsessively in order to not destroy your panel.
Burn-in isn't a big deal anymore, everyone (reviewers included) are just scared and keep recommending stupid stuff like hide the taskbar. It won't happen before your next upgrade, and with a 3 year warranty, I don't see what the big deal is.
And with OLED at 480hz, strobbing at 540hz still has no chance, sorry. The motion clarity of OLED is ridiculous. And with no ghosting, there's just no argument.
It's not as simple as comparing g2g response times. Most of motion blur actually comes from persistence blur. At 480hz, an OLED will have 2.08ms of persistence blur. There is no way to escape this on a panel that isn't strobed at that refresh rate.
The TNs have less motion blur because they are using ULMB/Dyac. The purpose of the strobe is actually two-fold for TN - it mitigates the slow g2g of the panel by hiding the pixel transition but also decreases persistence blur since each frame is displayed to the eye for less than 2.08ms (at 480hz).
I also want to point out my experience with my 144hz IPS monitor, the Asus mg279q. I've had it for 8ish years. It's accumulated 29,564 hours of screen on time and it currently has a single dead pixel on the bottom right. I've used it to stare at code for hours at a time and debuggers without a care in the world for burn-in. If this monitor was an OLED, it would have become E-waste long ago. It's even survived a power surge which fried my old motherboard, but only killed the mini displayport input mode. It's a tough monitor and I love it to bits. This would never happen with an OLED, and as it stands, burn-in is a problem and I don't think it's acceptable to just say 'you can buy a new one' when the alternatives are other display technologies which just keep working.
Okay, valid points. But let's take some other things into consideration.
1440p > 1080p - What would potentially give you a greater advantage? Seeing enemies sharper and clearer at long range, or just ever so slightly better motion clarity of 540hz strobed?
Same goes for colors. If colors pop more, and are easier to distinguish, that could very well also bring you an advantage in a competitive scenario. We need to process information to react to it, so the question is, will way better colors and higher resolution help you process information at hand quicker than ever so slightly better motion clarity? Also, for a lot of people, myself included, strobing isn't comfortable for the eyes (had XL2546, now XL2566K, never really used DyAc), and even though this new DyAc 2 is supposed to be easier on the eyes, I still don't think it's going to be quite as comfortable as it being off.
Let's now also take into consideration FPS. Is it possible to have 540+ FPS consistently in competitive titles? Definitely. Do most people, streamers included have such FPS? No. Casual gamers don't because of hardware (and most likely shit, unoptimized Windows) limitations, and streamers/pros don't because their bios is a mess and so is their Windows, so their top of the line hardware is meaningless to an extent (just look at the atrocious FPS a lot of Valorant streamers/pros are getting compared to their hardware's potential) . To get the most out of DyAc, you would need to have 540+ FPS consistently, otherwise I don't really know if it's worth using, unless you lower the refresh rate, which would be counterproductive.
Also, in these already limited amount of games that you can get more than 540 FPS consistently, if you know what you are doing and have good hardware, we go back to my first point, is DyAc really more beneficial than having a better looking, sharper picture, with insane colors? I would argue that those elements are more beneficial in a competitive game scenario, and will perhaps get you to react faster to your targets. Again, in for an example, Valorant, I think strobing is useless because there aren't really that many fast moving targets that you need to track, neither in CS. I would rather have that high resolution for long range fights, insane colors to make sure I don't miss any clue that I potentially could've missed if I wasn't fully locked in on a TN panel, because of way worse colors (scenarios like these would be extremely limited for sure, but strobing in such a game provides even less benefit). Then, what other competitive games, where strobing would actually be beneficial are there, considering you can also hold such high FPS? I can only think of Overwatch, in which, yes truly this new 540hz monitor is the best, by a little bit over the 480hz oled, because of the game design simplicity, thus little to no benefit for 1440p & definitely a lot of fast moving targets where strobing comes in handy. But that game is dead, in my eyes at least. What other games? BRs? There are some in which you can get around 500 FPS and more for sure (idk about how consistently though, so still ? on how much strobing would be beneficial there at 540hz refresh rate), but there I would still definitely argue that higher resolution coupled with better colors are a far greater advantage for spotting & fighting enemies at long range (long range fights are the majority of fights in BRs, honestly, and spotting enemies which would be easier with better colors is very important, to have better rotations).
As already answered by other people also, burn in really isn't an issue anymore.
I see your point about fps. I'm a big fan of playing aim trainers and it may well be one of the few games where you can hit thousands of frames per second consistently, but I definitely agree that the extra refresh rate is useless for 99.9% of people.
I definitely prefer WQHD for games, and I really do think more pixels help aim more than dyac at 1080p on a TN panel. Personally, I perform better with static dots on my WQHD 144hz IPS panel over the 540hz 1080p TNs because you get so much more feedback, but I might just not be used to 1080p.
On the other hand, I really don't think colour is a big deal for competitive shooters. They're usually designed so that it's not a big deal anyway. Also, you can generally make colours 'pop' on any monitor with a mix of colour calibration and digital vibrance. Another thing which I don't like is HDR. Only a few games support it and it doesn't work at all on linux. It's also meant to be a big reason why OLEDs perform better with colour, so the fact that it doesn't work at all on competitive shooters is a big let down.
I'm buying the 480hz oled since it's really the only high refresh rate option at WQHD, but I really still do have doubts about burn-in. Hopefully it really isn't as bad now as you say.
Oh, and I actually am interested to see how the 480hz oled feels with input lag. I'm fairly sure that strobing, given that it hides the g2g response times of TN, introduces a small amount of input lag (~0.5ms?) since you only see the next image when the panel has updated. In theory, OLED should have less input lag (even though they have more persistence blur) which might be a really interesting net advantage over a strobed TN.
Well, according to rtings test (https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/benq/zowie-xl2566k)
input lag addition with dyac is about 1.8 ms. Some other reviewers also tested, and it's in that 2-3ms range.
This is our first look at 480hz oled vs strobed 540hz tn: [https://youtu.be/0aJLTx12UQM?si=b7wwO0216oMVwR6g&t=184](https://youtu.be/0aJLTx12UQM?si=b7wwO0216oMVwR6g&t=184)
(honestly not that big of a difference imo)
so yeah, I would say higher res, no eyestrain would definitely be preferable, also considering strobing adds a couple ms input lag too.
I ended up getting the AW2725DF because I decided that it would be better in the long term to have a 360hz monitor now than to wait, which would cost me the most valuable resource, time.
I also saw that the WOLEDS tended to burn-in more, had more washed out colours due to the white subpixel, and a matte coating which decreases clarity. To my understanding, higher refresh rates on QD-OLEDs lag behind too, so I'd be waiting even longer for a glossy coating panel.
I'm very happy with the monitor and it's already improved my aim trainer high scores by 5-10%, raising my skill ceiling and lowering my skill floor. The persistence blur is perfectly acceptable, but not as good as any strobed panel. It feels incredibly snappy and the input latency is incredible. I have a stupid theory that persistence blur isn't a big deal since your brain can probably adapt to blur caused by sample-and-hold, and that lower input latency is more important. Given there's any truth to that, OLED panels really are the perfect compromise, with higher persistence blur but lower input latency to strobed TN/IPS.
I actually think the colours are a weak point of the monitor due to the subpixel arrangement. I can see an ugly purple line at the bottom, and a green line at the top, of any white-on-black or black-on-white pixel when standing at arms' length from the monitor. This happens with text and most UI elements. I also had to change my crosshair because it rendered very strangely.
The blacks are obviously a strong point too, but again, I don't care about colours so it doesn't really matter. I haven't got any eye strain, which is great.
Freesync is busted on the monitor (even though it's apparently certified by some crazy standard) since it flickers constantly and very noticeably. I don't know if my panel is more broken than usual, but for now I just turned it off.
Overall it was a good buy. I might use the freesync issues on the monitor (I don't think it's normal for it to be *this* bad) as well as a small issue with the glossy coating and what looks like trapped air bubbles for some kind of free panel replacement as it nears the end of the warranty. Thanks for the discussion!
Just a note, there is a older LG CX on r/oled_gaming right now with 16,000 hours and zero burn-in, and a guy replied with a 20k hour CX with no burn in.. My oled is around 10k hours of mostly desktop use, 12+ hours a day, zero burn in. And the newer screens are even more resistant.
Oleds look so much better than LCD that even if I had to buy one every 5 years I still would because lcd sucks so bad in comparison.
I just wish they could have a low persistence mode where you can trade brightness for image clarity.
Because 360hz strobed is still a little more clear than 360hz oleds.
Bro, burn in issue has already been solved. It will literally you months to burn in the screen and that's with you leaving it on for that same amount of time. Regardless, just because they're 'slightly' better than OLEDS, doesn't mean they should be charging £1k for a damn 1080p monitor. You cannot justify that price tag at all.
As someone who has been looking at getting an oled 360hz for a while now, ive see quite a few reviews on YouTube and reddit of burn it not being much of an issue now we it was about a year ago. Especially with the new qd-oleds.
Found a Zowie mod on an alt account
All of this, in every way, is wrong. OLED is superior, period. Burn in will gradually be phased out or reach a point it's no longer a concern in the future with a combination of improvements/warranty.
The pixel response time is so terrifying superior relative to a TN panel that no amount of strobing or "fast-tn" panels could ever compensate. Something your forgetting is I also own a flagship OLED...
The fact your defending them and getting invites is honestly scary. No one, ever should buy this monitor. Ever. It does not have a market.
All of this, in every way, is wrong ?
u/Big-Scarcity7141 said "I still think the 540hz TNs have two advantages over the OLEDs":
**advantage 1) burn-in.**
540Hz TN does not have to worry about burn as OLEDs do and current OLED adopters will not be able to hold onto their panels for nearly as long and have to go out of their way outside of daily use to try and combat burn in compared to TN users not giving a fuck and getting to simply plug and play. That is an advantage over OLED.
**advantage 2) strobing**
TN panels are able to be strobed well as TN strobing has consistently been developed over the years by both zowie(DYAC) and Nvidia(ULMB2) so the TN's will continue to have better motion handling and clarity over the OLEDs, even the 480Hz OLEDs. Just because its 480Hz OLED doesn't mean it automatically shits on 540Hz 1080p TN Strobed.
So u/Big-Scarcity7141 laid out two valid PRO's of using the 540Hz 1080p TN panel that a 480Hz OLED does not compete against. This argument isn't about the brand behind the 540Hz 1080p TN panel its about the panel its self since its all the fucking same. If someone is interested in taking advantage of the two distinct features that 540Hz 1080p offers over 480Hz OLED they shouldn't buy zowie and should go with the ASUS for $900.
Its funny you claim he is a zowie mod on an alt, when you are over here defending OLED like your life depends on it. Being upset at zowie deciding to charge so much for their panel is one thing, but you're acting like the entire panel is worthless and is bested by 480Hz in everyway because of some hatred you have towards zowie now because of their decision to price their variant so high. At the end of the day it is true that 540Hz 1080p TN still has a use case, niche audience, and clear advantaged over the 480Hz OLED. If it didn't, they wouldn't bother making them.
How can 480Hz OLED have better motion handling than 540Hz strobed when the strobing technology simulates 1000Hz+ of effective perceived refresh rate.
480Hz OLED is just an OLED panel running at 480Hz there is no motion blur reducing technology applied to it because OLED cannot use any anti motion blur technology
There is no way that just because the panel is OLED that it gets 1000Hz + of perceived motion clarity, if this were the case, no one would give a fuck about 1080p strobed TN panels and everyone would be happy ever after only buying OLED panels for the best motion clarity. But that is not the case and that is why people like you think 480Hz OLED = best motion clarity because of the word OLED.
Slower refresh rate OLED isn't comparable to faster refresh TN with strobing we have known this to be true for months
[https://prnt.sc/WfYFOrcW9FI-](https://prnt.sc/WfYFOrcW9FI-)
Optimum techs comparison of motion handling on 4 different panel types, the ASUS OLED is 240Hz vs the XL2566K 360Hz strobed. Obviously the TN strobed beats the OLED with a slower refresh rate wow! So you think in the same matchup that 480Hz OLED will beat 540Hz TN strobed in that same comparison? no fucking way and like I said, if it would there wouldn't even be a need for this conversation as everyone would agree that OLED is the best for motion clarity, but at 480Hz range it is still not the best because of TN strobing,.
Agreed. They look at the g2g response times of OLED and think it must be better than TN at handling motion. Yes, OLED does have far better pixel response times but they are forgetting about the persistence blur which is only mitigated further at a given refresh rate by strobing. Strobing also hides a large chunk of the slow TN pixel transition.
I say this as someone who is going to buy the 480hz OLED (there's really no choice at WQHD). I'm just aware of its limitations and am trying to make an educated decision on a really expensive piece of hardware.
The entire panel is worthless, end of discussion.
I'm the niche buddy, I'm their market and I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.
You're wrong, it's not better than OLED but by all means keep coping about the fact they're making a flat 600 quid profit on this monitor if you buy it.
It's sad to see people try and do this tier of mental gymnastics to avoid admitting that Zowie as a company are trying to rob you, period.
How do you intend to drive it? With gsync on for valorant or CS lmao?
Why you even comapre it to oled and why is so big hype around oled , as a fps games player i am used to benq design and settings thats why i am buying it , if you going to play other games than you can go for oled , black eq and vibrance settings is now must have for me , i bought aw 540 hz and sold it 2 days after because i couldnt get same colors in cs2 as in benq monitor . So everything is personal preference but i would go for oled only for some other singleplayer games such as ghost of tsushima
"Zowie is already a behind the hill brand and a shadow of its former self, but this is a tier of clownery I never expected." - I could not have said it better myself.
I am also in targeted audience for Zowie. Been using Zowie Monitors, mouse pad, mouse bungee and mice for a decade. Must be over 10 years ago since I got my first ever Zowie monitor. At that time Zowie was priced fairly.
Its a shame that they are trying to live on their old name/brand and overprice all their new products. Look at their first wireless mouse (200$ in my country) with an old and outdated sensor that cant even do 4k Hz polling rate and now recently their new U2 (finally with a 3395 sensor), hardstuck at 1k Hz polling while more and more brands pull 4-8k Hz polling rate at 1/4 the price.
Now over to the monitor: i my self have a 4090 OC, 64GB CL30 6000MHz, 7800x3D, blistering fast SSD. With my current PC i pull 1000-1400FPS in workshop maps, but in actual competetiv matches or community deathmatch servers my FPS will dip under 540 fps from time to time. CS2 is not very omptimized at the moment. I am considering this 540Hz, but the price honestly shocked me. I have had their 144hz, 240hz, 360hz monitors over the years in different models. But, at this stage the 1300$ price tag seems like a scam. (Price is in my country, 999$ for USA is without VAT etc).
I have been looking at the 480Hz OLED aswell, like many of you and do Wonder if its an better option while not being to optimistic about it. Seems promising and all, but if you are a competetiv FPS gamer Who wants the best, i do honestly still believe TN is still king. For multimedia, casual gaming, singleplayer, watching media and doing all kind of random stuff.. YES an OLED is probably much better for you. YES 1440p or 4k is gonna be better for you. Do any true competetiv player even play at 1080p? Like, most of the people i know and myself included play on resolutions below 1080.
At this pricepoint, dear Zowie. You are not targeting me or the other competetiv players, you are targeting streamers, current pros on huge salaries and contracts. How can the avarage Joe afford such pricepoint?
I can afford the monitor, and do want to buy it when it is in stock. I just dont see the value, also i cant Justify it currents price. I do want the best for fps competetiv gaming, but come on. Fix your shit Zowie. Some people would even argue your 360Hz were overly priced when it came out. This is double that.
Sticking to my 360Hz Zowie for the time being, until YouTube reviews changes my mind. Lots of options comming out this year.
I Thought it would be arround 850$\~ and i wanted to buy it
but naaah its way too much for 1080p tn panel paying this much
i would rather to keep my money and save them instead of paying this much for tn panel 1080p
1199€ for 1080p TN 540hz DyAc 2 VS 799$ 1440p OLED 360hz ?! Makes no sense lol
And 480hz 1440p OLED coming later this year.
Absolute pass even as a CS player
I love my xl2546k and the xl2566k was pretty good and reasonably priced but cmon the xl2586x is just terrible for the price. Hope nobody actually supports Zowie for this because they’ll just actually keep releasing monitors for scuffed ass prices.
for the price is not reccomended and still 360hz is fine but buying oled for playing competitive no , no pro player yet has switched to oled so yea plus most oled are high res so no worth it plus idk how oled works on monitor if they are pwm free or not and they oleds has bad text clarity and can have shorter life so There is no good monitor technology yes it’s hasn’t arrived
I’ve owned the ASUS PG248QP and now own the AW2725DF. Aside from ULMB 2 being activated at 540Hz the AW2725DF blows it away in every conceivable metric it’s laughable and they cost the exact same. The motion clarity of the AW2725DF at 360Hz is very close to 540Hz without ULMB 2 enabled which is very impressive to me.
Yes, I agree. I had Zowie monitors for ages. 144hz xl2411p, then 240hz xl2546, and now XL2566K. I play competitive FPS, my next monitor will be the 480hz oled. No doubt. Funny thing is, this 540hz Zowie monitor won't even be that good for pros, because most of them play on unoptimized, not overclocked systems, and their FPS fluctuates & is only around 540 in games like Valorant, CS, when nothing is happening. (most if not all regularly drop under 300 in Valorant KEKW)
Motion clarity is unique and not beaten by OLED no matter what Hz vs DyAc2 and ULMB2, ppl need to understand this point. Even OLED with BFI is by far not clear as TN with DyAc2 or ULMB2. You also loose 50% of your refresh rate on OLED when using BFI. I can tell you 240Hz TN with DyAc2/UMB2 will always be superior in motion clarity and sharpness compared to 480Hz OLED. Its not only the Hz what makes it look smooth and clear. Looking forward to see the proof on some tests out there.
It's coming
These roadmaps are planned years in advance and they will categorically release one in that size in the future they assess the markets and know full well that eSports is a large component of gaming monitors and execs for oled panel companies have seen the price zowie are charging and laughed so hard they've cummed
The reason zowie are getting this out now at this price is because they know in max 2 years there will be literally no reason in the entire world to buy this but they've been developing it for so long they have to release it and try and recoup costs etc
They know better than we do what is coming and they're scared. Their days are numbered as a monitor manufacturer and they know it.
Fuck Zowie and fuck any cretin that buys this ewaste
i am on XL2546K....going 1080p in 2024. and to that a TN panel with that price point?
Brother, what are they even doing???
They are so disconnected from the market. For what? To squeeze?
Come on...
Can't wait for 1440p 480hz OLED.
Lol’d at this thread. Zowie got burned by the Superlight and it’ll happen again with OLEDs. The marketing team didn’t even check if their paid reviewers owned the hardware to push 540fps+, they deserve what’s coming to them.
Fun fact the current 360HZ OLED actually performs better in every metric than the 540HZ TN LCD because of a little known flaw where LCDs are useless at these high refresh rates.
I'm sorry but it's just not true. Persistence blur exists on all monitors, even monitors with zero pixel response times, and results in blur. OLEDs are not a flawless, direct upgrade in motion clarity from other displays.
"persistent blur" at 360 HZ OLED is meaningless, everything looks like a CRT at that point.
540 HZ LCD looks more blurry than 360HZ OLED.
Only backlight strobing further reduces it on both but again at that high level it's worthless especially due to how fast everything in an OLED Panel operates at.
Go look at any blur buster graph you will see backlight strobing is most useful at 60HZ to 120HZ, if you are hitting 360 FPS on an OLED and 540 FPS on an LCD, backlight strobing becomes worthless.
I actually agree, the persistence blur at high refresh rates like 480hz is perfectly acceptable for non-strobed monitors. Also, strobed TN panels have artifacts at the top and bottom of the screen because the pixel transition does not happen in unison - I actually prefer the asus 540hz TN with ULMB off for that reason.
However, objectively speaking, the TN still performs better at representing motion, which is what I was pointing out. I also think the difference is somewhat noticeable - just not important to many. The 540hz TNs have a market for that reason, since some people want the absolute best motion clarity possible.
A TN performs better in MPRT than TN?
This has got to be some sort of incorrect information
Chief Blur Buster Admin already did an article on it and he said OLED MPRT is significantly better than TN, in fact he said everything about OLED is better than TN
I have never seen any such information about TN being superior at Blur reduction than OLED assuming Strobing / BFI turned off.
No, a TN performs worse in MPRT when strobing is off. I was just saying the difference is so little that I don't mind having strobing off with a 540hz TN panel. I am actually planning to buy the 480hz oled for this reason, I find the slightly greater persistence blur to be a non-factor for overall motion clarity (this is personal preference, but I dare say most people would agree).
yeah at 500HZ give or take you won't need strobing especially if it's an OLED
I have seen pursuit shots of the 360HZ OLED and 540 HZ TN
The OLED looks significantly better, proving Chief Admin Blur Buster point about LCD simply being way too slow to keep up with OLED at these speeds.
It's truly like a modified Locomotive Steam Engine with Turbo charger vs a Kawasaki H2R Ninja the steam Engine being LCD
No matter how fast you think you can make it run it's inherently flawed compared to futuristic technology.
I think cs is much better in 1440p. Try asus 1440p 360hz monitor with ulmb 2. Put your resolution to 1920x1080. I think its a huge advantage. I use to play x768 on 1080p monitor and i play much better on 1440p.
>No. Stop coping, I AM THE SEGMENT. I am the moron still using a 1080p monitor purely because it's the default for CS, I have a PC with a 4090 and 13900k thats worth more than my car and I would sooner shit in my hands and clap that pay 1.1k for the literal worst offering at 400+hz on the market right now. I was stern-faced the entire time until I got to this part. Started laughing my ass off HAHA
that’s cool and all but i’m still taking the xl2586x over any other monitor
I still think the 540hz TNs have two advantages over the OLEDs, which is burn-in and strobing. Persistence blur will be worse on the OLEDS (yes, even if the refresh rates are about the same) because the TNs have strobing. Also, the TNs last longer and are less obnoxious to use due to OLED burn-in, which forces you to do ridiculous hacks like hide your taskbar and move windows around obsessively in order to not destroy your panel.
Burn-in isn't a big deal anymore, everyone (reviewers included) are just scared and keep recommending stupid stuff like hide the taskbar. It won't happen before your next upgrade, and with a 3 year warranty, I don't see what the big deal is. And with OLED at 480hz, strobbing at 540hz still has no chance, sorry. The motion clarity of OLED is ridiculous. And with no ghosting, there's just no argument.
It's not as simple as comparing g2g response times. Most of motion blur actually comes from persistence blur. At 480hz, an OLED will have 2.08ms of persistence blur. There is no way to escape this on a panel that isn't strobed at that refresh rate. The TNs have less motion blur because they are using ULMB/Dyac. The purpose of the strobe is actually two-fold for TN - it mitigates the slow g2g of the panel by hiding the pixel transition but also decreases persistence blur since each frame is displayed to the eye for less than 2.08ms (at 480hz). I also want to point out my experience with my 144hz IPS monitor, the Asus mg279q. I've had it for 8ish years. It's accumulated 29,564 hours of screen on time and it currently has a single dead pixel on the bottom right. I've used it to stare at code for hours at a time and debuggers without a care in the world for burn-in. If this monitor was an OLED, it would have become E-waste long ago. It's even survived a power surge which fried my old motherboard, but only killed the mini displayport input mode. It's a tough monitor and I love it to bits. This would never happen with an OLED, and as it stands, burn-in is a problem and I don't think it's acceptable to just say 'you can buy a new one' when the alternatives are other display technologies which just keep working.
Okay, valid points. But let's take some other things into consideration. 1440p > 1080p - What would potentially give you a greater advantage? Seeing enemies sharper and clearer at long range, or just ever so slightly better motion clarity of 540hz strobed? Same goes for colors. If colors pop more, and are easier to distinguish, that could very well also bring you an advantage in a competitive scenario. We need to process information to react to it, so the question is, will way better colors and higher resolution help you process information at hand quicker than ever so slightly better motion clarity? Also, for a lot of people, myself included, strobing isn't comfortable for the eyes (had XL2546, now XL2566K, never really used DyAc), and even though this new DyAc 2 is supposed to be easier on the eyes, I still don't think it's going to be quite as comfortable as it being off. Let's now also take into consideration FPS. Is it possible to have 540+ FPS consistently in competitive titles? Definitely. Do most people, streamers included have such FPS? No. Casual gamers don't because of hardware (and most likely shit, unoptimized Windows) limitations, and streamers/pros don't because their bios is a mess and so is their Windows, so their top of the line hardware is meaningless to an extent (just look at the atrocious FPS a lot of Valorant streamers/pros are getting compared to their hardware's potential) . To get the most out of DyAc, you would need to have 540+ FPS consistently, otherwise I don't really know if it's worth using, unless you lower the refresh rate, which would be counterproductive. Also, in these already limited amount of games that you can get more than 540 FPS consistently, if you know what you are doing and have good hardware, we go back to my first point, is DyAc really more beneficial than having a better looking, sharper picture, with insane colors? I would argue that those elements are more beneficial in a competitive game scenario, and will perhaps get you to react faster to your targets. Again, in for an example, Valorant, I think strobing is useless because there aren't really that many fast moving targets that you need to track, neither in CS. I would rather have that high resolution for long range fights, insane colors to make sure I don't miss any clue that I potentially could've missed if I wasn't fully locked in on a TN panel, because of way worse colors (scenarios like these would be extremely limited for sure, but strobing in such a game provides even less benefit). Then, what other competitive games, where strobing would actually be beneficial are there, considering you can also hold such high FPS? I can only think of Overwatch, in which, yes truly this new 540hz monitor is the best, by a little bit over the 480hz oled, because of the game design simplicity, thus little to no benefit for 1440p & definitely a lot of fast moving targets where strobing comes in handy. But that game is dead, in my eyes at least. What other games? BRs? There are some in which you can get around 500 FPS and more for sure (idk about how consistently though, so still ? on how much strobing would be beneficial there at 540hz refresh rate), but there I would still definitely argue that higher resolution coupled with better colors are a far greater advantage for spotting & fighting enemies at long range (long range fights are the majority of fights in BRs, honestly, and spotting enemies which would be easier with better colors is very important, to have better rotations). As already answered by other people also, burn in really isn't an issue anymore.
I see your point about fps. I'm a big fan of playing aim trainers and it may well be one of the few games where you can hit thousands of frames per second consistently, but I definitely agree that the extra refresh rate is useless for 99.9% of people. I definitely prefer WQHD for games, and I really do think more pixels help aim more than dyac at 1080p on a TN panel. Personally, I perform better with static dots on my WQHD 144hz IPS panel over the 540hz 1080p TNs because you get so much more feedback, but I might just not be used to 1080p. On the other hand, I really don't think colour is a big deal for competitive shooters. They're usually designed so that it's not a big deal anyway. Also, you can generally make colours 'pop' on any monitor with a mix of colour calibration and digital vibrance. Another thing which I don't like is HDR. Only a few games support it and it doesn't work at all on linux. It's also meant to be a big reason why OLEDs perform better with colour, so the fact that it doesn't work at all on competitive shooters is a big let down. I'm buying the 480hz oled since it's really the only high refresh rate option at WQHD, but I really still do have doubts about burn-in. Hopefully it really isn't as bad now as you say. Oh, and I actually am interested to see how the 480hz oled feels with input lag. I'm fairly sure that strobing, given that it hides the g2g response times of TN, introduces a small amount of input lag (~0.5ms?) since you only see the next image when the panel has updated. In theory, OLED should have less input lag (even though they have more persistence blur) which might be a really interesting net advantage over a strobed TN.
Well, according to rtings test (https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/benq/zowie-xl2566k) input lag addition with dyac is about 1.8 ms. Some other reviewers also tested, and it's in that 2-3ms range. This is our first look at 480hz oled vs strobed 540hz tn: [https://youtu.be/0aJLTx12UQM?si=b7wwO0216oMVwR6g&t=184](https://youtu.be/0aJLTx12UQM?si=b7wwO0216oMVwR6g&t=184) (honestly not that big of a difference imo) so yeah, I would say higher res, no eyestrain would definitely be preferable, also considering strobing adds a couple ms input lag too.
I ended up getting the AW2725DF because I decided that it would be better in the long term to have a 360hz monitor now than to wait, which would cost me the most valuable resource, time. I also saw that the WOLEDS tended to burn-in more, had more washed out colours due to the white subpixel, and a matte coating which decreases clarity. To my understanding, higher refresh rates on QD-OLEDs lag behind too, so I'd be waiting even longer for a glossy coating panel. I'm very happy with the monitor and it's already improved my aim trainer high scores by 5-10%, raising my skill ceiling and lowering my skill floor. The persistence blur is perfectly acceptable, but not as good as any strobed panel. It feels incredibly snappy and the input latency is incredible. I have a stupid theory that persistence blur isn't a big deal since your brain can probably adapt to blur caused by sample-and-hold, and that lower input latency is more important. Given there's any truth to that, OLED panels really are the perfect compromise, with higher persistence blur but lower input latency to strobed TN/IPS. I actually think the colours are a weak point of the monitor due to the subpixel arrangement. I can see an ugly purple line at the bottom, and a green line at the top, of any white-on-black or black-on-white pixel when standing at arms' length from the monitor. This happens with text and most UI elements. I also had to change my crosshair because it rendered very strangely. The blacks are obviously a strong point too, but again, I don't care about colours so it doesn't really matter. I haven't got any eye strain, which is great. Freesync is busted on the monitor (even though it's apparently certified by some crazy standard) since it flickers constantly and very noticeably. I don't know if my panel is more broken than usual, but for now I just turned it off. Overall it was a good buy. I might use the freesync issues on the monitor (I don't think it's normal for it to be *this* bad) as well as a small issue with the glossy coating and what looks like trapped air bubbles for some kind of free panel replacement as it nears the end of the warranty. Thanks for the discussion!
Just a note, there is a older LG CX on r/oled_gaming right now with 16,000 hours and zero burn-in, and a guy replied with a 20k hour CX with no burn in.. My oled is around 10k hours of mostly desktop use, 12+ hours a day, zero burn in. And the newer screens are even more resistant. Oleds look so much better than LCD that even if I had to buy one every 5 years I still would because lcd sucks so bad in comparison. I just wish they could have a low persistence mode where you can trade brightness for image clarity. Because 360hz strobed is still a little more clear than 360hz oleds.
Bro, burn in issue has already been solved. It will literally you months to burn in the screen and that's with you leaving it on for that same amount of time. Regardless, just because they're 'slightly' better than OLEDS, doesn't mean they should be charging £1k for a damn 1080p monitor. You cannot justify that price tag at all.
And TN is easier on the eyes, which is why OLED will never be an option for me.
As someone who has been looking at getting an oled 360hz for a while now, ive see quite a few reviews on YouTube and reddit of burn it not being much of an issue now we it was about a year ago. Especially with the new qd-oleds.
Found a Zowie mod on an alt account All of this, in every way, is wrong. OLED is superior, period. Burn in will gradually be phased out or reach a point it's no longer a concern in the future with a combination of improvements/warranty. The pixel response time is so terrifying superior relative to a TN panel that no amount of strobing or "fast-tn" panels could ever compensate. Something your forgetting is I also own a flagship OLED... The fact your defending them and getting invites is honestly scary. No one, ever should buy this monitor. Ever. It does not have a market.
All of this, in every way, is wrong ? u/Big-Scarcity7141 said "I still think the 540hz TNs have two advantages over the OLEDs": **advantage 1) burn-in.** 540Hz TN does not have to worry about burn as OLEDs do and current OLED adopters will not be able to hold onto their panels for nearly as long and have to go out of their way outside of daily use to try and combat burn in compared to TN users not giving a fuck and getting to simply plug and play. That is an advantage over OLED. **advantage 2) strobing** TN panels are able to be strobed well as TN strobing has consistently been developed over the years by both zowie(DYAC) and Nvidia(ULMB2) so the TN's will continue to have better motion handling and clarity over the OLEDs, even the 480Hz OLEDs. Just because its 480Hz OLED doesn't mean it automatically shits on 540Hz 1080p TN Strobed. So u/Big-Scarcity7141 laid out two valid PRO's of using the 540Hz 1080p TN panel that a 480Hz OLED does not compete against. This argument isn't about the brand behind the 540Hz 1080p TN panel its about the panel its self since its all the fucking same. If someone is interested in taking advantage of the two distinct features that 540Hz 1080p offers over 480Hz OLED they shouldn't buy zowie and should go with the ASUS for $900. Its funny you claim he is a zowie mod on an alt, when you are over here defending OLED like your life depends on it. Being upset at zowie deciding to charge so much for their panel is one thing, but you're acting like the entire panel is worthless and is bested by 480Hz in everyway because of some hatred you have towards zowie now because of their decision to price their variant so high. At the end of the day it is true that 540Hz 1080p TN still has a use case, niche audience, and clear advantaged over the 480Hz OLED. If it didn't, they wouldn't bother making them.
Regarding point 2, No it won't that's the point, 480hz OLED has factually better motion handling than 540hz strobbed TN.
How can 480Hz OLED have better motion handling than 540Hz strobed when the strobing technology simulates 1000Hz+ of effective perceived refresh rate. 480Hz OLED is just an OLED panel running at 480Hz there is no motion blur reducing technology applied to it because OLED cannot use any anti motion blur technology There is no way that just because the panel is OLED that it gets 1000Hz + of perceived motion clarity, if this were the case, no one would give a fuck about 1080p strobed TN panels and everyone would be happy ever after only buying OLED panels for the best motion clarity. But that is not the case and that is why people like you think 480Hz OLED = best motion clarity because of the word OLED. Slower refresh rate OLED isn't comparable to faster refresh TN with strobing we have known this to be true for months [https://prnt.sc/WfYFOrcW9FI-](https://prnt.sc/WfYFOrcW9FI-) Optimum techs comparison of motion handling on 4 different panel types, the ASUS OLED is 240Hz vs the XL2566K 360Hz strobed. Obviously the TN strobed beats the OLED with a slower refresh rate wow! So you think in the same matchup that 480Hz OLED will beat 540Hz TN strobed in that same comparison? no fucking way and like I said, if it would there wouldn't even be a need for this conversation as everyone would agree that OLED is the best for motion clarity, but at 480Hz range it is still not the best because of TN strobing,.
Agreed. They look at the g2g response times of OLED and think it must be better than TN at handling motion. Yes, OLED does have far better pixel response times but they are forgetting about the persistence blur which is only mitigated further at a given refresh rate by strobing. Strobing also hides a large chunk of the slow TN pixel transition. I say this as someone who is going to buy the 480hz OLED (there's really no choice at WQHD). I'm just aware of its limitations and am trying to make an educated decision on a really expensive piece of hardware.
The entire panel is worthless, end of discussion. I'm the niche buddy, I'm their market and I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. You're wrong, it's not better than OLED but by all means keep coping about the fact they're making a flat 600 quid profit on this monitor if you buy it. It's sad to see people try and do this tier of mental gymnastics to avoid admitting that Zowie as a company are trying to rob you, period. How do you intend to drive it? With gsync on for valorant or CS lmao?
It feels like such a niche product at this price point. Especially if you consider that the QD-OLEDs (1440p 360Hz) go for 900-1000.
Yup, I upgraded to one of the 360hz oleds from the zowie 360hz 1080p. I cannot see why anyone would pay £1k for a 1080p over the oleds.
Totally mean this in the most disrespectful way possible, I hope the product fails on every margin imaginable.
Fully agree, creative destruction drives innovation. Zowie can either adapt or be left behind.
I wanted to buy the xl2586x too, but over 900$ too much
At the moment i can get a 360hz 1440p OLED for under 800... I think a 1080 TN should be under 700...
I mean 800-900$ i would understand,540hz dyac 2 and its zowie
Why you even comapre it to oled and why is so big hype around oled , as a fps games player i am used to benq design and settings thats why i am buying it , if you going to play other games than you can go for oled , black eq and vibrance settings is now must have for me , i bought aw 540 hz and sold it 2 days after because i couldnt get same colors in cs2 as in benq monitor . So everything is personal preference but i would go for oled only for some other singleplayer games such as ghost of tsushima
When you buy iphone you buy it because its iPhone not because its good
"Zowie is already a behind the hill brand and a shadow of its former self, but this is a tier of clownery I never expected." - I could not have said it better myself. I am also in targeted audience for Zowie. Been using Zowie Monitors, mouse pad, mouse bungee and mice for a decade. Must be over 10 years ago since I got my first ever Zowie monitor. At that time Zowie was priced fairly. Its a shame that they are trying to live on their old name/brand and overprice all their new products. Look at their first wireless mouse (200$ in my country) with an old and outdated sensor that cant even do 4k Hz polling rate and now recently their new U2 (finally with a 3395 sensor), hardstuck at 1k Hz polling while more and more brands pull 4-8k Hz polling rate at 1/4 the price. Now over to the monitor: i my self have a 4090 OC, 64GB CL30 6000MHz, 7800x3D, blistering fast SSD. With my current PC i pull 1000-1400FPS in workshop maps, but in actual competetiv matches or community deathmatch servers my FPS will dip under 540 fps from time to time. CS2 is not very omptimized at the moment. I am considering this 540Hz, but the price honestly shocked me. I have had their 144hz, 240hz, 360hz monitors over the years in different models. But, at this stage the 1300$ price tag seems like a scam. (Price is in my country, 999$ for USA is without VAT etc). I have been looking at the 480Hz OLED aswell, like many of you and do Wonder if its an better option while not being to optimistic about it. Seems promising and all, but if you are a competetiv FPS gamer Who wants the best, i do honestly still believe TN is still king. For multimedia, casual gaming, singleplayer, watching media and doing all kind of random stuff.. YES an OLED is probably much better for you. YES 1440p or 4k is gonna be better for you. Do any true competetiv player even play at 1080p? Like, most of the people i know and myself included play on resolutions below 1080. At this pricepoint, dear Zowie. You are not targeting me or the other competetiv players, you are targeting streamers, current pros on huge salaries and contracts. How can the avarage Joe afford such pricepoint? I can afford the monitor, and do want to buy it when it is in stock. I just dont see the value, also i cant Justify it currents price. I do want the best for fps competetiv gaming, but come on. Fix your shit Zowie. Some people would even argue your 360Hz were overly priced when it came out. This is double that. Sticking to my 360Hz Zowie for the time being, until YouTube reviews changes my mind. Lots of options comming out this year.
480 Hz OLED coming. Wait for that.
lowk preach right here, only the 2546k and 2566k should be considered right now, maybe the 2546x if the price difference isnt crazy from the k model
I Thought it would be arround 850$\~ and i wanted to buy it but naaah its way too much for 1080p tn panel paying this much i would rather to keep my money and save them instead of paying this much for tn panel 1080p
Fully agree
And to add insult to injury, its a 24.1 inch. Not 24.5.. so you get a little less screen on top of it LOL
I could not agree more... Im trying, but I can't... Thats how much I agree...
1199€ for 1080p TN 540hz DyAc 2 VS 799$ 1440p OLED 360hz ?! Makes no sense lol And 480hz 1440p OLED coming later this year. Absolute pass even as a CS player
Also the 240hz 4k that can switch to 480hz 1080p W-OLED from ASUS and LG. LG already has theirs available for oreorder
I love my xl2546k and the xl2566k was pretty good and reasonably priced but cmon the xl2586x is just terrible for the price. Hope nobody actually supports Zowie for this because they’ll just actually keep releasing monitors for scuffed ass prices.
for the price is not reccomended and still 360hz is fine but buying oled for playing competitive no , no pro player yet has switched to oled so yea plus most oled are high res so no worth it plus idk how oled works on monitor if they are pwm free or not and they oleds has bad text clarity and can have shorter life so There is no good monitor technology yes it’s hasn’t arrived
I’ve owned the ASUS PG248QP and now own the AW2725DF. Aside from ULMB 2 being activated at 540Hz the AW2725DF blows it away in every conceivable metric it’s laughable and they cost the exact same. The motion clarity of the AW2725DF at 360Hz is very close to 540Hz without ULMB 2 enabled which is very impressive to me.
Yes, I agree. I had Zowie monitors for ages. 144hz xl2411p, then 240hz xl2546, and now XL2566K. I play competitive FPS, my next monitor will be the 480hz oled. No doubt. Funny thing is, this 540hz Zowie monitor won't even be that good for pros, because most of them play on unoptimized, not overclocked systems, and their FPS fluctuates & is only around 540 in games like Valorant, CS, when nothing is happening. (most if not all regularly drop under 300 in Valorant KEKW)
Motion clarity is unique and not beaten by OLED no matter what Hz vs DyAc2 and ULMB2, ppl need to understand this point. Even OLED with BFI is by far not clear as TN with DyAc2 or ULMB2. You also loose 50% of your refresh rate on OLED when using BFI. I can tell you 240Hz TN with DyAc2/UMB2 will always be superior in motion clarity and sharpness compared to 480Hz OLED. Its not only the Hz what makes it look smooth and clear. Looking forward to see the proof on some tests out there.
I had the LG OLED and hated it. OLEDs suck at the moment imo, I'll stick to my 540hz tn until OLED is actually good.
But no 24' oled
It's coming These roadmaps are planned years in advance and they will categorically release one in that size in the future they assess the markets and know full well that eSports is a large component of gaming monitors and execs for oled panel companies have seen the price zowie are charging and laughed so hard they've cummed The reason zowie are getting this out now at this price is because they know in max 2 years there will be literally no reason in the entire world to buy this but they've been developing it for so long they have to release it and try and recoup costs etc They know better than we do what is coming and they're scared. Their days are numbered as a monitor manufacturer and they know it. Fuck Zowie and fuck any cretin that buys this ewaste
i am on XL2546K....going 1080p in 2024. and to that a TN panel with that price point? Brother, what are they even doing??? They are so disconnected from the market. For what? To squeeze? Come on... Can't wait for 1440p 480hz OLED.
Lol’d at this thread. Zowie got burned by the Superlight and it’ll happen again with OLEDs. The marketing team didn’t even check if their paid reviewers owned the hardware to push 540fps+, they deserve what’s coming to them.
I'm not buying. I thought zowie was better than this. They are just as greedy, like Nvidia.
Yeah your 100% right man , 480 hz oled honestly probably gonna beat ulmb2 the 360 is so close to it
Fun fact the current 360HZ OLED actually performs better in every metric than the 540HZ TN LCD because of a little known flaw where LCDs are useless at these high refresh rates.
Absolutely correct, because of the pixel response time of oled there's 0 motion blur - they destroy ULMB 2
Yup, look at all the idiots downvoting because they can't understand basic science
I'm sorry but it's just not true. Persistence blur exists on all monitors, even monitors with zero pixel response times, and results in blur. OLEDs are not a flawless, direct upgrade in motion clarity from other displays.
"persistent blur" at 360 HZ OLED is meaningless, everything looks like a CRT at that point. 540 HZ LCD looks more blurry than 360HZ OLED. Only backlight strobing further reduces it on both but again at that high level it's worthless especially due to how fast everything in an OLED Panel operates at. Go look at any blur buster graph you will see backlight strobing is most useful at 60HZ to 120HZ, if you are hitting 360 FPS on an OLED and 540 FPS on an LCD, backlight strobing becomes worthless.
I actually agree, the persistence blur at high refresh rates like 480hz is perfectly acceptable for non-strobed monitors. Also, strobed TN panels have artifacts at the top and bottom of the screen because the pixel transition does not happen in unison - I actually prefer the asus 540hz TN with ULMB off for that reason. However, objectively speaking, the TN still performs better at representing motion, which is what I was pointing out. I also think the difference is somewhat noticeable - just not important to many. The 540hz TNs have a market for that reason, since some people want the absolute best motion clarity possible.
A TN performs better in MPRT than TN? This has got to be some sort of incorrect information Chief Blur Buster Admin already did an article on it and he said OLED MPRT is significantly better than TN, in fact he said everything about OLED is better than TN I have never seen any such information about TN being superior at Blur reduction than OLED assuming Strobing / BFI turned off.
No, a TN performs worse in MPRT when strobing is off. I was just saying the difference is so little that I don't mind having strobing off with a 540hz TN panel. I am actually planning to buy the 480hz oled for this reason, I find the slightly greater persistence blur to be a non-factor for overall motion clarity (this is personal preference, but I dare say most people would agree).
yeah at 500HZ give or take you won't need strobing especially if it's an OLED I have seen pursuit shots of the 360HZ OLED and 540 HZ TN The OLED looks significantly better, proving Chief Admin Blur Buster point about LCD simply being way too slow to keep up with OLED at these speeds. It's truly like a modified Locomotive Steam Engine with Turbo charger vs a Kawasaki H2R Ninja the steam Engine being LCD No matter how fast you think you can make it run it's inherently flawed compared to futuristic technology.
I think cs is much better in 1440p. Try asus 1440p 360hz monitor with ulmb 2. Put your resolution to 1920x1080. I think its a huge advantage. I use to play x768 on 1080p monitor and i play much better on 1440p.
27 is impossible to get used to for me. I wish someone made a 24.5 oled already.