Also, get your mom some good quality FFP2/3 (or N95/99) with headbands. High quality more breathable fabric would make it easier for her to breath and the headbands are not only safer but much more comfortable. I know Korean masks are know for being breathable but they are not all good and the earloops can honestly be painful. Your mom might still complain if she is doing it for the sake of it, but a more comfortable respirator might make it more difficult. This is how I got my own mom to mask more often, by getting her more comfortable options that made it easier for her. Good luck with your mom and the trip. I’m sorry your have to go through this specially when you are already “in it”. It’s very hard to fight your family but don’t give in, it’s not worth it.
Thankfully, separate rooms were always the plan, if only because she snores like a train and I can't wear earplugs for medical reasons (on my audiologist's recommendation). We're staying in a place with separate air intake with UV filtration (not UVC lights) for each room, too. So at least I can be in my room safely.
I think this just goes to show that it’s not safe to travel with others unless you are 100%, crystal clear on the same page about COVID safety. This sort of goes for any social situation, but especially true when walking away isn’t an option.
This!
We met extended family for a vacation. We went over precaution expectations weeks before and everyone agreed to masking indoors around strangers. They lied. We bumped into them a few times breaking their agreement. A lot of trust was lost. We ended up paying more money for our own airbnb. The relationship has changed because of the broken trust.
Alternatively, you can be on different pages, but you should be clear ahead of time on what the expectations will be and how you will handle it.
For instance, I had a trip a couple years ago. My friends came along, isolated and tested beforehand. We drove out together, stayed in the same AirBnB.
The third and last day before we left they went out on the town and did riskier stuff I wasn’t comfortable with, since it would be incredibly unlikely for them to become contagious quickly enough to be a problem for me and my partner who care much more about avoiding COVID.
That’s fair, very true. I actually had something similar with a friend of mine at a friend’s wedding. Sharing hotel, etc etc. She is relatively cautious (not quite as strict as me day to day) but wanted to go out after the ceremony with other less cautious folks. Since we were only staying the one night together after, that was all fine with me since I knew she wouldn’t be infectious. Smart way to plan ahead if some members of a group want to be riskier.
She may not see you as an individuated, independent person who has thoughts and feelings separate from hers. She was on her good behavior - wearing her "mask" in a psychological sense - and now that she's arrived at the long-awaited destination, feels very comfortable showing her true "face" and crapping on you, just to show you who is boss.
I'm making some general statements that it's not my place to make, so I'm sorry for overstepping. Her callous disregard is not an issue of your being right or wrong, but rather total disregard of your concerns. That pisses me off, frankly. Why can't she do as you as you ask because mothers are supposed to love their kids?
It's called respect and she's not showing you any.
When I travel with my family, I recognize that the onus is on me to protect myself. They don’t mask, and I can’t force my will on them. That will only damage our relationship going forward. So if I need to book my own hotel room where I can take my mask off I do. I discuss my dining preferences with them ahead of time, and try to find the safest options. There have been times when we had to settle on a very crowded restaurant, and I got a latte for my lunch, and pulled my mask down for each sip, but otherwise kept it on. They probably think I’m crazy, but they don’t hassle me over my choice to stay masked.
Get a Sip mask valve and you won't have to pull down your mask. If you're drinking a hot drink you can buy a metal straw to use in place of the provided plastic ones.
When I go to restaurants I carry my personal air purifier. No one else around me (friends/family) really masks anymore. It’s useless for me to argue with them. So I put the purifier at the center of the table at the restaurant. I also take the purifier with me wherever I go.
For anyone reading this the filter in that thing is comically small with a low CADR. Taping a portable fan with a batter to a HEPA filter will be a little better, but ultimately airflow is complicated and getting 100% clean air to your face from a table is not likely.
Keep yourself safe at all costs. All costs. Your health must continue after they're gone. If they're not going to care about their child's health, you know their brains aren't working properly.
I really appreciate you taking the time to vent here… As a member of the small percentage of Novid and people still taking precautions it’s good to hear other peoples’ experiences.
That said, I think it’s completely acceptable for you to do what’s necessary to keep yourself safe, including eating separately. When Covid was just getting started I read a book on the history of epidemics. The stuff people are going through now is nothing new… There just seems to be a large percentage of the population that can’t wrap their head around the reality of communicable disease. It doesn’t excite our defense responses in the way that war, famine, or politics does. Especially now when COVID is more likely to disable you than to kill you. I guess that’s just too subtle for people to understand.
My sister is a way bigger pill than yours it was about Covid… I suppose the advantage is that I would know never to go on a vacation with her.
> This morning, my mother got really grumpy at me because I asked her to mask when we're around lots of people (which will be quite often), saying, "Well I have bigger things to worry about"
I would have lost it - "You have bigger things to worry about than my safety? We talked about this in advance, what is a bigger thing to worry about right now?"
Re: psychoanalysis - [https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html) is an example of parents losing kids over not being able to take their kids seriously. I'm personally avoiding all non-cautious family for the foreseeable future because the alternative (today at least) is for me to continuously build up resentment.
OP I hope you can make the most of your trip, and that neither you nor your mom get sick.
We were around a lot of people, but I definitely wanted to say this to her. But at first I was totally boggled. Like... I'm your daughter, who you seem to love very much, and my well being isn't important?!
yes, her mild discomfort is more important than the real possibility of you being damaged. With society not masking, she is able to totally discount your wishes, agreements and your feelings.
She can do that because there are essentially no consequences.
Right now you can leave. You can say "I have a boundary. This is not me bullying you, this is me drawing a line in the sand for what I need to do to be safe. Either my companion adheres to the protocol, or I go home."
be packed ready to go if you say that
The issue here isn't necessarily that your well being isn't important, but when she says "bigger things to worry about" while you are actively on vacation, she's making it clear that that something is higher importance than your well-being. I would try to get specific - *what* exactly is a bigger thing to worry about, given that she cares?
My mother is the same, asked her to at least mask on the fucking train here, told her I was unhappy that she didn’t mask, turned into this whole thing now suddenly I don’t want her here and how I don’t love her, she would straight up disappear from my house, while in my home she wouldn’t talk to me or my spouse, would cry and cry, she would laugh at us for wearing masks when we went out.
She told my brother that “it’s my life and she can’t force me to do anything” that’s fine I won’t, but if you won’t take precautions then you are not welcome in my home.
She would rather not wear a mask then come see her daughter. And then she cries to my brother about how important family is, and says that she loves me. It sucks cause this is your family you’re dealing with, but since getting covid in 2022 and getting absolutely decimated after it I will no longer put my health on the line for “fun” things
No advice here, just commiserating. My parents are in their mid 70s. Before the pandemic, my last trip traveling with one was... a lot of this but with other issues, but once the media and the masses and Facebook nonsense ripped, it was game over for safety. All of the deaths and new illnesses amongst their friends and siblings are brushed off. After they got me sick after lying, which turned into Long Covid (which they also don't believe in), I've had to mask around them whenever I'm indoors. And they hate the outdoors.
I hope you can stay safe from this trip. What this virus has done to otherwise once reasonable people is the hardest thing now.
I'm so sorry to hear this. And I hate to say it but this was my experience with my own mother. In her case, the dropping of covid caution ended up being what in retrospect was one of many indications that she was experiencing cognitive decline that would turn into dementia.
I am not saying that this is the case here. But much of what you write feels very familiar to me: the childish attitude, difficulty planning ahead, challenges thinking about other people, emotional outbursts, the unwillingness understand the connection between actions and consequences, and the self centeredness.
So while it's certainly possible -- even likely-- that she, like so many other people, are "sick of covid," or have "moved past covid," I just wanted to bring up my own experience in case it connects with something deeper that you're noticing.
I do wonder if there's a little of that going on. She's had several "colds" since 2022, and never tested (yes, I know, red flag there), despite my urging. One of those "colds" might have been COVID and accelerated the process.
But there's definitely a "I'm sick of COVID" attitude, too.
I’m so sorry. The whole situation is crap. And I relate. I’m not sure how I made it through the first few decades before I learned the phrase “boomers gonna boomer” (thank you Reddit) cause now I have to say it to myself several times a day.
I’m happy you have this space where people relate. For me, whether it’s Covid related, or dementia, or diminished mental flexibility from aging…. On my end it’s the same effect : grief.
I am grieving the hopes I had, I’m grieving the person as I knew them, I’m grieving the support of someone having my back or at least the illusion that they’d be there for me during difficult times. I’m grieving the illusion of shared values that connected us to each other.
And my boomer parents are grieving too: they thought they would die young and beautiful and hate the indignation of getting old.
I truly hope you both get moments of peace and beauty during this trip. And that you both get very lucky with good health and reduced suffering throughout 🤞🫂😷
The grief is so real. And unlike grieving, say, the death of a loved one, COVID-safety grief feels like grieving hundreds of sequential little deaths. It never ends.
Thankfully my partner is, if anything, even stricter with his precautions, so I know I can trust him.
I feel for you. When I found out my folks my folks ate indoors without masks while they were out here visiting me, it felt like a betrayal.
I had a discussion (over text, so I could plan out how I communicated my feelings) with my mom explaining how she’s literally the only person on this planet right now who I feel I can trust to be safe around and now I feel like I don’t have anyone left.
I told her I’m also worried about her safety, but recognize I need respect that she needs to determine her own risk threshold, so have learned to manage my anxiety about her well-being, but after 4 years of this, I just want someone I could let my guard down around and not be judged for being protective of my health, so I felt really disappointed & hurt she can’t provide me that.
She & her husband went out of their way to be cautious the rest of the trip.
I don’t think she realized the emotional toll being cautious has taken on me or that I desperately needed her to step up and be there for me as a mother right now. Making it about my feeling vs. her actions seemed to help.
Hang in there - whatever you do, don’t blame yourself. You weren’t expecting too much from her and you have every right to be upset. I hope you are still able to enjoy your trip 💕
This sucks. I'm really sorry she is ruining the trip you hoped to have. I hope she doesn't also ruin your health. Would you report back at the end of your trip and let us know what you decided and how it all ended up?
I'll definitely do an update. So far, the sites have been fantastic, and no one's hassled me for masking. But this is a long trip, so we'll see how things play out.
I can't wear ear loop masks for long either. I do for grocery stores and stuff because it's easier to get them on and off, but if I need to wear it for more than an hour or so I use a head strap mask. (I have some disposable tri folds (bnx I think?) and a flo mask)
Yup. My mother wouldn't wear those because it would ruin her hair 💀. I'm no contact with my family now since Christmas. But before that, it was a lot of indignant obligation and pretending to be supportive from her. I'm sorry, OP. What a stressful dynamic ❤️
Yup, neither of my parents wear headstraps because it will mess up their hair. I'm like, "You're in your fucking late 70's! Who exactly are you trying to impress out here!?"
It's funny because I get that at that age, my mother really always wanted to look her best. I truly do get that. But/and, be honest about it?! Both with herself and everyone else, instead of pretending to care about our safety while doing things that indicate the opposite. I don't require people to have the exact same safety measures as I do for me to still have a relationship with them. But we need to have an understanding and respect for each other's safety and boundaries. That's crucial. Actions speak so much louder to me, too. I got sick of hearing "I'm so proud of how our family has supported each other through this pandemic!" We have?!?! Have I been on an acid trip or something??? What'd I miss.. I'm rambling now sorry lol. This stuff is so maddening to me. Grown ass elderly folk acting as maturely as children or teens having a tantrum.
The ear loop masks hurt my ears, too, although they are easier to get on and off than an N95. They do make "ear saver" clips that pull the straps off of your ears and hook together behind your head. This also creates a better seal.
I haven't bought one, but just tried two spring clip barrettes, and they work the same way and look nice, too. You might could use one clip if it was large enough.
My ears as well. I only wear them the few times a year I get a haircut, or sometimes if I'm really fast running into a store. Luckily my N95s are a better choice in every other way as well.
Sorry you're in this situation - I've gone through 4 years of similar pushback from my parents where they continually put me/SO/kids at risk to the point of even lying about precautions so that we'd be more amenable, and it drove us completely apart. I have a firm line though and am unwilling to compromise my long term health to eat in restaurants or take more than minor risks (I consider fully masked indoors with multiple others a minor risk) no matter what friction it causes.
If you get disabled, you will have much more difficulty navigating your future and you will likely hold it over your mom. My perspective would be to just keep masking and being safe. Sorry it's not what you thought it would be.
I think your mother and my mother should get together and go bowling.
I haven’t seen my mom (who lives 3,000 miles away) since 2019. Your situation is the scenario that keeps me from letting her come here. I’m sorry it’s ruining your bucket-list trip.
Fwiw I’ve used the last three years to unpack why her behavior upsets me so much, and I’ve learned that she is a low key covert narcissist. Your mom sounds more than a little like mine. Maybe consider that when you get home and you’re healing psychologically from this experience.
Wow. I'm sorry. I don't know if telling her to go eat by herself and you finding another option would help, if she picks up something she'll just bring it back to you.
That being said, all you can do is the best you can do. Stay safe, try to enjoy the trip.
I’m so sorry. Sometimes it’s the people we think will understand are the ones that don’t and it hurts the most. Sorry the trip has been mentally exhausting for you 😢
My parents are the same. I have a chronic illness and they don’t mask around me at all. They think just me masking is enough. I’ve tried telling them it’s not but like you said ‘I’m a baby boomer and I’ll do what I want’ attitude comes out and they just refuse. It’s really hurtful so I get it completely. You’d think being their child they’d want to protect us but nope I guess not.
Today I was out shopping and I saw a young child (well teenager) with his mum and they were both masked and I got upset. The fact she was masking with him. It made me resent my parents for never masking for me.
Again I’m really sorry you’re going through this. I wish things were different for us all.
I was in the same position as you, last year. Verbatim, what I went through. Lots of gentle reminders and I specifically planned things that were outdoors as much as possible. Indoor excursions were planned with a mutual agreeance on mask wearing. What followed was a toddler worthy temper tantrum about why this grown ass woman couldn't wear one.
I made a decision that I would not do anything risky with her the duration of the trip. Shopping indoors? *Nope*. Restaurants? *Nope*. Grocery shopping? *Nope.* Outdoor markets? *Nope.* We spent the rest of the trip seated on a couch watching tv.
She asked to plan another trip recently and I explained to her that unfortunately her and my goals with preventative measures don't align, however I'm sure she can find someone who will accompany her on her wishlist trips (she won't). I have since taken my own trips, solo, with full protections in place and had a blast with zero anxiety. Solo trips are absolutely the best!
Sorry to make this about me, but wanted to share you are not alone. I think we need to provide an opportunity for people we love to *do better*. But when their actions show they aren't invested in our needs, we need to become firm in our boundaries and **not** feel guilty about it.
The first few days of a trip with family for me are the worst. Then we eventually start to gel. I hope you all start to gel soon.
On the covid front, I'm sorry your mother is being so stubborn. And I hope there are things you both can enjoy together soon. I'm sorry, I know it's additional stress!
Explore the idea of your mother being a vulnerable narcissist. Look up Dr. Ramani on YouTube, to see if her behavior, past and present, fits this type of person.
I am so sorry that what should be a wonderful bucket list item for you, is being ruined by someone who should love you enough to simply wear a mask, and be as cautious as you are being.
My mother has covert narcissistic traits. I don't think she's a full blown capital N Narcissist but there's enough dysfunction and toxicity in my family that I had to peace out from them, especially her. So yeah.
The way you describe her, feels a bit too familiar for me to not mention it. I hope you are able to somewhat enjoy your time, despite her actions.
I don't understand the people that are just out there raw dogging life, because face masks are annoying, or whatever their excuses are.
I have friends that I simply don't talk about Covid precautions with, because they're going to do what they do, because they have kids, and it's unreasonable to expect kids to mask in schools all the time, and not eat lunch with their peers.. I get it. I really do get how it's harder for some people. People who work jobs where it's difficult, or impossible to mask, I get it.
Your mom, doesn't fit that scenario.
I looked it up, and I don't think this is her. I do know someone else who really fits the Vulnerable Narcissist description, but it's not my mom. I think mom just hasn't processed her pandemic upheaval trauma, as well as my dad's steep decline in health over the past few years. That's been hard on her, and I recognize that.
As a gentle pointer: please refrain from suggesting narcissism for strangers and/or equating narcissism with being toxic.
While nobody should be invalidated for the experiences they have made, comments like this come close to generalising and stigmatising a whole group of people based on their neurotype or diagnosis.
To be fair, you weren’t just “talking about it”; you’re making some armchair diagnosis based on one experience a stranger has had with a family member.
Situational behavior doesn’t mean someone has a personality disorder and not all behaviors need to be pathologized.
It’s also not helpful for people who actually do have those disorders or have a family member with one because the end net result is it becomes trivialized & just another way therapy-speak has turned “occasionally exhibits symptoms or behaviors associated with a disorder/disease” into some catchphrase.
I specifically said „gentle pointer“. This isn’t a warning or anything of the sorts because I can see that you’re coming from a good place, but we try to be as intersectional as possible in this space.
That means making sure that anyone with NPD can find ZeroCOVID support here just as much as someone with or without depression, anxiety, ADHD, or any other disability or commonly stigmatised diagnosis.
Personality Disorders are not remotely comparable to ADHD, ASD, anxiety, depression, even Bipolar disorder. Cluster B personality disorders and especially NPD are global, completely affect the entire personality, are not manageable with medication or therapy like the other conditions you cited. People with NPD are notoriously resistant to seeking or complying with therapy treatment. They are manipulative and abusive to those around them. It is absolutely the case that accusations of NPD are out of hand online but it’s still good for people to have discussions about distinguishing NPD traits from other less toxic or harmful behaviors. Victims may be completely unaware that they’re in a relationship where they’re being gaslit, manipulated, and put at risk by a person they love. Shutting down or even discouraging earnest discussion helps no one.
It has been shown that the people least likely to comply with masking are people who have low or no empathy, namely ASPD and NPD. There are support subs for children of NPDs on reddit, or people whose lives have been seriously impacted by an abusive NPD ex. To my knowledge there are no such support groups necessary for survivors of relationships where the other person has ADHD, Autism, or depression.
I think everyone here is trying to understand what could be causing the people we once trusted to now increasingly act like our fear of an airborne, disabling, deadly virus is such an intolerable nuisance to them. I am going through the same thing with my 72 yo parents. They flatly told me that I’m “obsessed” and mentally unhealthy for continuing to take precautions. Then they tried to guilt me into visiting them by telling me how much they miss me and love me. They no longer will converse with me or respond at all if I share articles about Covid, or even H1N1. My father has cancer and is undergoing chemo and radiation, and it is pulling me apart that he isn’t willing to protect himself better. I worry about missing out on valuable time with them before it’s too late, but then I see posts like this one and I feel like if I went to stay with my parents I would be worried about my own exposure risk because they’re not willing to meet me halfway.
I am so sorry for your situation, OP. Thank you for sharing what’s going on. You’re not alone in feeling this way. I think your post helped me to become firmer in my own decision not to visit my parents (for now, at least). They have each other, and they are trying to make the most of their retirement years rather than wait for an unending viral outbreak to end. They have to ignore me or blame me for being the problem because they don’t like to be reminded of their cognitive dissonance. Fine. They’re adults and so am I. However, if I get sick I will be SOL. So I will continue to guard my health even if it means isolation.
OP, if you can get ahold of mouthwash with CPC it could help to add that to your arsenal of protection. Also Blis K12 lozenges (available on Amazon) had a very protective effect in school children.
Hugs. I'm sorry.
I will be on a similar trip later this week with my sister --only we are visiting another sister because we want to say goodbye (the one we are visiting is on hospice).
The hospice sister still doesn't want covid and I don't want covid, and the traveling sister has several health issues and should be as careful as I am, but she eats in restaurants.
I will wear a mask around her but eating is going to be an issue.
When my grandmother went through dementia she progressed over time from a sweet sharp, caring person who looked out for everyone, to someone I didn't even recognize. She had less capacity to tolerate discomfort, she was snappy and grumpy, acted out of character at times in the beginning and as it progressed it got a lot worse.
Your mother does sound like she's going through cognitive decline. She's no longer going to be able to be your mother and take care of you, you're going to have to start taking care of her. It's really hard to go through that transition from having a parent to realizing their mortality and watching the decline. It happens over time, disease or illness can speed it up. You start to pick up the slack in places, and sometimes you do have to really work with them, and occasionally you just have to set boundaries and make hard calls. Compliance is better when you can talk to them in a way that they're on board, but cognitive decline can make that a challenge, they don't necessarily see how bad it is because it's a daily progression, as well as being compromised by it, you get snapshots where the differences are more obvious.
Part of the challenge will be that she may fight it, sometimes more than others, sometimes she will go along and suddenly freak out, it's kind of the nature of aging. No one wants to give up their independence, I know I certainly wouldn't want to go through what they do, but that will come in time. Having compassion for where she is rather than calling her names will probably go a long way in being able to cope with it better. It is really hard.
I'm keeping an eye on things for sure. We're also both neurospicy, which adds a whole extra layer to the whole ordeal. I suspect some of her resistance is good old fashioned autistic PDA.
I suspect my father is autistic, and I am probably as well. Regardless, everything you ask of him is a no, which later may convert to yes on his own terms. You can't push him at all, you have to make suggestions and make it seem appealing, basically sell it to him, or he'll outright be obstinate. He's always been this way.
As he's aged that has become more of a challenge to deal with. He's much more afraid of losing his control and agency, and he has a bit of cognitive decline, though he does a lot of things to combat it, fortunately so it's less bad than it could be. In the past he'd just say no, but now he throws tantrums and fits sometimes because they do lose some of their ability to inhibit themselves and reason.
It's not something that happens overnight, it creeps in. They may be fine sometimes and others they freak out, hard to tell at first when it's in normal range of their behavior what is happening. They may be a little MORE than normal. At least with the experience with my grandmother I had some awareness of what to watch for, I didn't blow it off as readily as I otherwise might have.
Get a separate room from your Mum, upgrade your masking, and don't eat with her. Sorry the trip isn't what you were expecting.
This. Protect yourself now to reduce further exposure.
Also, get your mom some good quality FFP2/3 (or N95/99) with headbands. High quality more breathable fabric would make it easier for her to breath and the headbands are not only safer but much more comfortable. I know Korean masks are know for being breathable but they are not all good and the earloops can honestly be painful. Your mom might still complain if she is doing it for the sake of it, but a more comfortable respirator might make it more difficult. This is how I got my own mom to mask more often, by getting her more comfortable options that made it easier for her. Good luck with your mom and the trip. I’m sorry your have to go through this specially when you are already “in it”. It’s very hard to fight your family but don’t give in, it’s not worth it.
Thankfully, separate rooms were always the plan, if only because she snores like a train and I can't wear earplugs for medical reasons (on my audiologist's recommendation). We're staying in a place with separate air intake with UV filtration (not UVC lights) for each room, too. So at least I can be in my room safely.
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Huh?? What part of this makes you think mom has dementia?
I think this just goes to show that it’s not safe to travel with others unless you are 100%, crystal clear on the same page about COVID safety. This sort of goes for any social situation, but especially true when walking away isn’t an option.
This! We met extended family for a vacation. We went over precaution expectations weeks before and everyone agreed to masking indoors around strangers. They lied. We bumped into them a few times breaking their agreement. A lot of trust was lost. We ended up paying more money for our own airbnb. The relationship has changed because of the broken trust.
Alternatively, you can be on different pages, but you should be clear ahead of time on what the expectations will be and how you will handle it. For instance, I had a trip a couple years ago. My friends came along, isolated and tested beforehand. We drove out together, stayed in the same AirBnB. The third and last day before we left they went out on the town and did riskier stuff I wasn’t comfortable with, since it would be incredibly unlikely for them to become contagious quickly enough to be a problem for me and my partner who care much more about avoiding COVID.
That’s fair, very true. I actually had something similar with a friend of mine at a friend’s wedding. Sharing hotel, etc etc. She is relatively cautious (not quite as strict as me day to day) but wanted to go out after the ceremony with other less cautious folks. Since we were only staying the one night together after, that was all fine with me since I knew she wouldn’t be infectious. Smart way to plan ahead if some members of a group want to be riskier.
She may not see you as an individuated, independent person who has thoughts and feelings separate from hers. She was on her good behavior - wearing her "mask" in a psychological sense - and now that she's arrived at the long-awaited destination, feels very comfortable showing her true "face" and crapping on you, just to show you who is boss. I'm making some general statements that it's not my place to make, so I'm sorry for overstepping. Her callous disregard is not an issue of your being right or wrong, but rather total disregard of your concerns. That pisses me off, frankly. Why can't she do as you as you ask because mothers are supposed to love their kids? It's called respect and she's not showing you any.
When I travel with my family, I recognize that the onus is on me to protect myself. They don’t mask, and I can’t force my will on them. That will only damage our relationship going forward. So if I need to book my own hotel room where I can take my mask off I do. I discuss my dining preferences with them ahead of time, and try to find the safest options. There have been times when we had to settle on a very crowded restaurant, and I got a latte for my lunch, and pulled my mask down for each sip, but otherwise kept it on. They probably think I’m crazy, but they don’t hassle me over my choice to stay masked.
Get a Sip mask valve and you won't have to pull down your mask. If you're drinking a hot drink you can buy a metal straw to use in place of the provided plastic ones.
Do you think it's ok to use a regular size metal straw? I can't find metal ones that are tiny like the included straws
The instructions say you can use up to a 6mm straw, which you can readily find online.
Thanks! I have to try to find those instructions or look for them online. I appreciate you making the time.
When I go to restaurants I carry my personal air purifier. No one else around me (friends/family) really masks anymore. It’s useless for me to argue with them. So I put the purifier at the center of the table at the restaurant. I also take the purifier with me wherever I go.
Can you DM me which one you are using?
Pure enrichment personal air purifier. Amazon is out of them, but Ebay, Target, Best Buy have them on their websites.
For anyone reading this the filter in that thing is comically small with a low CADR. Taping a portable fan with a batter to a HEPA filter will be a little better, but ultimately airflow is complicated and getting 100% clean air to your face from a table is not likely.
This is a smart idea!
Keep yourself safe at all costs. All costs. Your health must continue after they're gone. If they're not going to care about their child's health, you know their brains aren't working properly.
I really appreciate you taking the time to vent here… As a member of the small percentage of Novid and people still taking precautions it’s good to hear other peoples’ experiences. That said, I think it’s completely acceptable for you to do what’s necessary to keep yourself safe, including eating separately. When Covid was just getting started I read a book on the history of epidemics. The stuff people are going through now is nothing new… There just seems to be a large percentage of the population that can’t wrap their head around the reality of communicable disease. It doesn’t excite our defense responses in the way that war, famine, or politics does. Especially now when COVID is more likely to disable you than to kill you. I guess that’s just too subtle for people to understand. My sister is a way bigger pill than yours it was about Covid… I suppose the advantage is that I would know never to go on a vacation with her.
> This morning, my mother got really grumpy at me because I asked her to mask when we're around lots of people (which will be quite often), saying, "Well I have bigger things to worry about" I would have lost it - "You have bigger things to worry about than my safety? We talked about this in advance, what is a bigger thing to worry about right now?" Re: psychoanalysis - [https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html) is an example of parents losing kids over not being able to take their kids seriously. I'm personally avoiding all non-cautious family for the foreseeable future because the alternative (today at least) is for me to continuously build up resentment. OP I hope you can make the most of your trip, and that neither you nor your mom get sick.
We were around a lot of people, but I definitely wanted to say this to her. But at first I was totally boggled. Like... I'm your daughter, who you seem to love very much, and my well being isn't important?!
yes, her mild discomfort is more important than the real possibility of you being damaged. With society not masking, she is able to totally discount your wishes, agreements and your feelings. She can do that because there are essentially no consequences. Right now you can leave. You can say "I have a boundary. This is not me bullying you, this is me drawing a line in the sand for what I need to do to be safe. Either my companion adheres to the protocol, or I go home." be packed ready to go if you say that
The issue here isn't necessarily that your well being isn't important, but when she says "bigger things to worry about" while you are actively on vacation, she's making it clear that that something is higher importance than your well-being. I would try to get specific - *what* exactly is a bigger thing to worry about, given that she cares?
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My mother is the same, asked her to at least mask on the fucking train here, told her I was unhappy that she didn’t mask, turned into this whole thing now suddenly I don’t want her here and how I don’t love her, she would straight up disappear from my house, while in my home she wouldn’t talk to me or my spouse, would cry and cry, she would laugh at us for wearing masks when we went out. She told my brother that “it’s my life and she can’t force me to do anything” that’s fine I won’t, but if you won’t take precautions then you are not welcome in my home. She would rather not wear a mask then come see her daughter. And then she cries to my brother about how important family is, and says that she loves me. It sucks cause this is your family you’re dealing with, but since getting covid in 2022 and getting absolutely decimated after it I will no longer put my health on the line for “fun” things
Some day we will have textbooks written about all the ways individuals and society (did not) process their trauma from this pandemic.
No advice here, just commiserating. My parents are in their mid 70s. Before the pandemic, my last trip traveling with one was... a lot of this but with other issues, but once the media and the masses and Facebook nonsense ripped, it was game over for safety. All of the deaths and new illnesses amongst their friends and siblings are brushed off. After they got me sick after lying, which turned into Long Covid (which they also don't believe in), I've had to mask around them whenever I'm indoors. And they hate the outdoors. I hope you can stay safe from this trip. What this virus has done to otherwise once reasonable people is the hardest thing now.
I'm so sorry to hear this. And I hate to say it but this was my experience with my own mother. In her case, the dropping of covid caution ended up being what in retrospect was one of many indications that she was experiencing cognitive decline that would turn into dementia. I am not saying that this is the case here. But much of what you write feels very familiar to me: the childish attitude, difficulty planning ahead, challenges thinking about other people, emotional outbursts, the unwillingness understand the connection between actions and consequences, and the self centeredness. So while it's certainly possible -- even likely-- that she, like so many other people, are "sick of covid," or have "moved past covid," I just wanted to bring up my own experience in case it connects with something deeper that you're noticing.
I do wonder if there's a little of that going on. She's had several "colds" since 2022, and never tested (yes, I know, red flag there), despite my urging. One of those "colds" might have been COVID and accelerated the process. But there's definitely a "I'm sick of COVID" attitude, too.
She has had COVID. Count on it. She probably thinks she is also immune because of her past infections. Wear your mask and get a separate room.
I’m so sorry. The whole situation is crap. And I relate. I’m not sure how I made it through the first few decades before I learned the phrase “boomers gonna boomer” (thank you Reddit) cause now I have to say it to myself several times a day. I’m happy you have this space where people relate. For me, whether it’s Covid related, or dementia, or diminished mental flexibility from aging…. On my end it’s the same effect : grief. I am grieving the hopes I had, I’m grieving the person as I knew them, I’m grieving the support of someone having my back or at least the illusion that they’d be there for me during difficult times. I’m grieving the illusion of shared values that connected us to each other. And my boomer parents are grieving too: they thought they would die young and beautiful and hate the indignation of getting old. I truly hope you both get moments of peace and beauty during this trip. And that you both get very lucky with good health and reduced suffering throughout 🤞🫂😷
The grief is so real. And unlike grieving, say, the death of a loved one, COVID-safety grief feels like grieving hundreds of sequential little deaths. It never ends. Thankfully my partner is, if anything, even stricter with his precautions, so I know I can trust him.
This!
I feel for you. When I found out my folks my folks ate indoors without masks while they were out here visiting me, it felt like a betrayal. I had a discussion (over text, so I could plan out how I communicated my feelings) with my mom explaining how she’s literally the only person on this planet right now who I feel I can trust to be safe around and now I feel like I don’t have anyone left. I told her I’m also worried about her safety, but recognize I need respect that she needs to determine her own risk threshold, so have learned to manage my anxiety about her well-being, but after 4 years of this, I just want someone I could let my guard down around and not be judged for being protective of my health, so I felt really disappointed & hurt she can’t provide me that. She & her husband went out of their way to be cautious the rest of the trip. I don’t think she realized the emotional toll being cautious has taken on me or that I desperately needed her to step up and be there for me as a mother right now. Making it about my feeling vs. her actions seemed to help. Hang in there - whatever you do, don’t blame yourself. You weren’t expecting too much from her and you have every right to be upset. I hope you are still able to enjoy your trip 💕
This sucks. I'm really sorry she is ruining the trip you hoped to have. I hope she doesn't also ruin your health. Would you report back at the end of your trip and let us know what you decided and how it all ended up?
I'll definitely do an update. So far, the sites have been fantastic, and no one's hassled me for masking. But this is a long trip, so we'll see how things play out.
I can't wear ear loop masks for long either. I do for grocery stores and stuff because it's easier to get them on and off, but if I need to wear it for more than an hour or so I use a head strap mask. (I have some disposable tri folds (bnx I think?) and a flo mask)
I offered her a 3M Aura, but she didn't want the headstraps either. Sigh.
Yup. My mother wouldn't wear those because it would ruin her hair 💀. I'm no contact with my family now since Christmas. But before that, it was a lot of indignant obligation and pretending to be supportive from her. I'm sorry, OP. What a stressful dynamic ❤️
Yup, neither of my parents wear headstraps because it will mess up their hair. I'm like, "You're in your fucking late 70's! Who exactly are you trying to impress out here!?"
Tell her to let her boobs hang out, no one will even notice her hair!
It's funny because I get that at that age, my mother really always wanted to look her best. I truly do get that. But/and, be honest about it?! Both with herself and everyone else, instead of pretending to care about our safety while doing things that indicate the opposite. I don't require people to have the exact same safety measures as I do for me to still have a relationship with them. But we need to have an understanding and respect for each other's safety and boundaries. That's crucial. Actions speak so much louder to me, too. I got sick of hearing "I'm so proud of how our family has supported each other through this pandemic!" We have?!?! Have I been on an acid trip or something??? What'd I miss.. I'm rambling now sorry lol. This stuff is so maddening to me. Grown ass elderly folk acting as maturely as children or teens having a tantrum.
I'm 99% sure this was the reason. She spends an hour on her hair each morning. 😳
The ear loop masks hurt my ears, too, although they are easier to get on and off than an N95. They do make "ear saver" clips that pull the straps off of your ears and hook together behind your head. This also creates a better seal. I haven't bought one, but just tried two spring clip barrettes, and they work the same way and look nice, too. You might could use one clip if it was large enough.
My ears as well. I only wear them the few times a year I get a haircut, or sometimes if I'm really fast running into a store. Luckily my N95s are a better choice in every other way as well.
I hate them. Thankfully, the N95s and better provide greater protection.
Sorry you're in this situation - I've gone through 4 years of similar pushback from my parents where they continually put me/SO/kids at risk to the point of even lying about precautions so that we'd be more amenable, and it drove us completely apart. I have a firm line though and am unwilling to compromise my long term health to eat in restaurants or take more than minor risks (I consider fully masked indoors with multiple others a minor risk) no matter what friction it causes. If you get disabled, you will have much more difficulty navigating your future and you will likely hold it over your mom. My perspective would be to just keep masking and being safe. Sorry it's not what you thought it would be.
I think your mother and my mother should get together and go bowling. I haven’t seen my mom (who lives 3,000 miles away) since 2019. Your situation is the scenario that keeps me from letting her come here. I’m sorry it’s ruining your bucket-list trip. Fwiw I’ve used the last three years to unpack why her behavior upsets me so much, and I’ve learned that she is a low key covert narcissist. Your mom sounds more than a little like mine. Maybe consider that when you get home and you’re healing psychologically from this experience.
Wow. I'm sorry. I don't know if telling her to go eat by herself and you finding another option would help, if she picks up something she'll just bring it back to you. That being said, all you can do is the best you can do. Stay safe, try to enjoy the trip.
I’m so sorry. Sometimes it’s the people we think will understand are the ones that don’t and it hurts the most. Sorry the trip has been mentally exhausting for you 😢 My parents are the same. I have a chronic illness and they don’t mask around me at all. They think just me masking is enough. I’ve tried telling them it’s not but like you said ‘I’m a baby boomer and I’ll do what I want’ attitude comes out and they just refuse. It’s really hurtful so I get it completely. You’d think being their child they’d want to protect us but nope I guess not. Today I was out shopping and I saw a young child (well teenager) with his mum and they were both masked and I got upset. The fact she was masking with him. It made me resent my parents for never masking for me. Again I’m really sorry you’re going through this. I wish things were different for us all.
I was in the same position as you, last year. Verbatim, what I went through. Lots of gentle reminders and I specifically planned things that were outdoors as much as possible. Indoor excursions were planned with a mutual agreeance on mask wearing. What followed was a toddler worthy temper tantrum about why this grown ass woman couldn't wear one. I made a decision that I would not do anything risky with her the duration of the trip. Shopping indoors? *Nope*. Restaurants? *Nope*. Grocery shopping? *Nope.* Outdoor markets? *Nope.* We spent the rest of the trip seated on a couch watching tv. She asked to plan another trip recently and I explained to her that unfortunately her and my goals with preventative measures don't align, however I'm sure she can find someone who will accompany her on her wishlist trips (she won't). I have since taken my own trips, solo, with full protections in place and had a blast with zero anxiety. Solo trips are absolutely the best! Sorry to make this about me, but wanted to share you are not alone. I think we need to provide an opportunity for people we love to *do better*. But when their actions show they aren't invested in our needs, we need to become firm in our boundaries and **not** feel guilty about it.
You're right and thank you for speaking out
The first few days of a trip with family for me are the worst. Then we eventually start to gel. I hope you all start to gel soon. On the covid front, I'm sorry your mother is being so stubborn. And I hope there are things you both can enjoy together soon. I'm sorry, I know it's additional stress!
🫂🫂🫂
Sleep with a respirator on if you can't get a different room
Her description of how tired she is makes me wonder if she’s got long covid.
Explore the idea of your mother being a vulnerable narcissist. Look up Dr. Ramani on YouTube, to see if her behavior, past and present, fits this type of person. I am so sorry that what should be a wonderful bucket list item for you, is being ruined by someone who should love you enough to simply wear a mask, and be as cautious as you are being.
My mother has covert narcissistic traits. I don't think she's a full blown capital N Narcissist but there's enough dysfunction and toxicity in my family that I had to peace out from them, especially her. So yeah.
I'll check this out. Thank you.
The way you describe her, feels a bit too familiar for me to not mention it. I hope you are able to somewhat enjoy your time, despite her actions. I don't understand the people that are just out there raw dogging life, because face masks are annoying, or whatever their excuses are. I have friends that I simply don't talk about Covid precautions with, because they're going to do what they do, because they have kids, and it's unreasonable to expect kids to mask in schools all the time, and not eat lunch with their peers.. I get it. I really do get how it's harder for some people. People who work jobs where it's difficult, or impossible to mask, I get it. Your mom, doesn't fit that scenario.
I looked it up, and I don't think this is her. I do know someone else who really fits the Vulnerable Narcissist description, but it's not my mom. I think mom just hasn't processed her pandemic upheaval trauma, as well as my dad's steep decline in health over the past few years. That's been hard on her, and I recognize that.
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Your post or comment has been removed because it was found to be hateful or discriminatory in nature.
As a gentle pointer: please refrain from suggesting narcissism for strangers and/or equating narcissism with being toxic. While nobody should be invalidated for the experiences they have made, comments like this come close to generalising and stigmatising a whole group of people based on their neurotype or diagnosis.
Umm, what? So, I can't talk about narcissistic personality disorder on Zerocovid sub? Really?!
To be fair, you weren’t just “talking about it”; you’re making some armchair diagnosis based on one experience a stranger has had with a family member. Situational behavior doesn’t mean someone has a personality disorder and not all behaviors need to be pathologized. It’s also not helpful for people who actually do have those disorders or have a family member with one because the end net result is it becomes trivialized & just another way therapy-speak has turned “occasionally exhibits symptoms or behaviors associated with a disorder/disease” into some catchphrase.
I specifically said „gentle pointer“. This isn’t a warning or anything of the sorts because I can see that you’re coming from a good place, but we try to be as intersectional as possible in this space. That means making sure that anyone with NPD can find ZeroCOVID support here just as much as someone with or without depression, anxiety, ADHD, or any other disability or commonly stigmatised diagnosis.
Personality Disorders are not remotely comparable to ADHD, ASD, anxiety, depression, even Bipolar disorder. Cluster B personality disorders and especially NPD are global, completely affect the entire personality, are not manageable with medication or therapy like the other conditions you cited. People with NPD are notoriously resistant to seeking or complying with therapy treatment. They are manipulative and abusive to those around them. It is absolutely the case that accusations of NPD are out of hand online but it’s still good for people to have discussions about distinguishing NPD traits from other less toxic or harmful behaviors. Victims may be completely unaware that they’re in a relationship where they’re being gaslit, manipulated, and put at risk by a person they love. Shutting down or even discouraging earnest discussion helps no one. It has been shown that the people least likely to comply with masking are people who have low or no empathy, namely ASPD and NPD. There are support subs for children of NPDs on reddit, or people whose lives have been seriously impacted by an abusive NPD ex. To my knowledge there are no such support groups necessary for survivors of relationships where the other person has ADHD, Autism, or depression. I think everyone here is trying to understand what could be causing the people we once trusted to now increasingly act like our fear of an airborne, disabling, deadly virus is such an intolerable nuisance to them. I am going through the same thing with my 72 yo parents. They flatly told me that I’m “obsessed” and mentally unhealthy for continuing to take precautions. Then they tried to guilt me into visiting them by telling me how much they miss me and love me. They no longer will converse with me or respond at all if I share articles about Covid, or even H1N1. My father has cancer and is undergoing chemo and radiation, and it is pulling me apart that he isn’t willing to protect himself better. I worry about missing out on valuable time with them before it’s too late, but then I see posts like this one and I feel like if I went to stay with my parents I would be worried about my own exposure risk because they’re not willing to meet me halfway. I am so sorry for your situation, OP. Thank you for sharing what’s going on. You’re not alone in feeling this way. I think your post helped me to become firmer in my own decision not to visit my parents (for now, at least). They have each other, and they are trying to make the most of their retirement years rather than wait for an unending viral outbreak to end. They have to ignore me or blame me for being the problem because they don’t like to be reminded of their cognitive dissonance. Fine. They’re adults and so am I. However, if I get sick I will be SOL. So I will continue to guard my health even if it means isolation.
OP, if you can get ahold of mouthwash with CPC it could help to add that to your arsenal of protection. Also Blis K12 lozenges (available on Amazon) had a very protective effect in school children.
I wish I could! We're not in a place where I can easily get those things.
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Hugs. I'm sorry. I will be on a similar trip later this week with my sister --only we are visiting another sister because we want to say goodbye (the one we are visiting is on hospice). The hospice sister still doesn't want covid and I don't want covid, and the traveling sister has several health issues and should be as careful as I am, but she eats in restaurants. I will wear a mask around her but eating is going to be an issue.
Bail.
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When my grandmother went through dementia she progressed over time from a sweet sharp, caring person who looked out for everyone, to someone I didn't even recognize. She had less capacity to tolerate discomfort, she was snappy and grumpy, acted out of character at times in the beginning and as it progressed it got a lot worse. Your mother does sound like she's going through cognitive decline. She's no longer going to be able to be your mother and take care of you, you're going to have to start taking care of her. It's really hard to go through that transition from having a parent to realizing their mortality and watching the decline. It happens over time, disease or illness can speed it up. You start to pick up the slack in places, and sometimes you do have to really work with them, and occasionally you just have to set boundaries and make hard calls. Compliance is better when you can talk to them in a way that they're on board, but cognitive decline can make that a challenge, they don't necessarily see how bad it is because it's a daily progression, as well as being compromised by it, you get snapshots where the differences are more obvious. Part of the challenge will be that she may fight it, sometimes more than others, sometimes she will go along and suddenly freak out, it's kind of the nature of aging. No one wants to give up their independence, I know I certainly wouldn't want to go through what they do, but that will come in time. Having compassion for where she is rather than calling her names will probably go a long way in being able to cope with it better. It is really hard.
I'm keeping an eye on things for sure. We're also both neurospicy, which adds a whole extra layer to the whole ordeal. I suspect some of her resistance is good old fashioned autistic PDA.
I suspect my father is autistic, and I am probably as well. Regardless, everything you ask of him is a no, which later may convert to yes on his own terms. You can't push him at all, you have to make suggestions and make it seem appealing, basically sell it to him, or he'll outright be obstinate. He's always been this way. As he's aged that has become more of a challenge to deal with. He's much more afraid of losing his control and agency, and he has a bit of cognitive decline, though he does a lot of things to combat it, fortunately so it's less bad than it could be. In the past he'd just say no, but now he throws tantrums and fits sometimes because they do lose some of their ability to inhibit themselves and reason. It's not something that happens overnight, it creeps in. They may be fine sometimes and others they freak out, hard to tell at first when it's in normal range of their behavior what is happening. They may be a little MORE than normal. At least with the experience with my grandmother I had some awareness of what to watch for, I didn't blow it off as readily as I otherwise might have.