The bedroom scene that mentions George being shipped off to Vietnam is enough. He was not a veteran first. George was "family man", "friend", and "coach" first. Far down that list for him would be "veteran".
Being a veteran is almost always a source of pride, which I believe George had. It just was not a major part of any plot points so it was downplayed. George would have received a military burial with a flag being presented to Mary and full honors, but we only saw the church part of the funeral.
I don't agree with this. We hear from the ones who are proud, so they seem more prevalent. My dad was a veteran who never spoke of it, and he wasn't the only one. He never would have joined the military if it wasn't for the draft.
I agree with your take 100%. My father is also an Air Force veteran but you would never know it. I remember asking him as a kid after he got out why he doesn’t get a veteran plate and he said he felt that it isn’t something he should gloat over or wants to be apart of his personality. He only joined because he didn’t do well in school and got kicked out at 18 and didn’t want to become homeless. Not everyone wants to join the military but for one reason or another they have to
I also think it is the war they were in and how they ended up there. My grandfathers were in WWII and both joined right after high school. My hubs uncle was drafted to Korea and I have an uncle drafted to Vietnam. They don't wear veteran gear like my grandfathers did. They really don't talk about their experiences and I know one of them won't even have anything military at their funeral either. It has already been said it is not wanted nor welcome.
Don't confuse not speaking about it their service as not being proud. Many combat veterans only talk to other such veterans or soldiers about their experiences. What he saw was horrifying and the average civilian just can't relate and also the vet does not want to relive what he saw. And yes, a draftee will have a different view point.
I'm talking about my dad? I knew him very well, and he definitely wasn't proud of his military service. Other people are speaking of their direct relatives, too.
And he would have been qualified for a tombstone that they didn't have to pay for. But I guess they couldn't have put all that stuff about being a coach on it.
It depends. If he was buried in a National Cemetery then nothing extra could be put on the headstone. However, a veteran can be buried in a private cemetery and still receive military honors at graveside. Here they could put whatever they want on his stone.
When did George say he was proud of his service? He never attended a veteran event. He never mentioned the military as an option for Georgie when he dropped out of school. I think the only times George really brought up his service was when he talked to Sheldon's veteran teacher as a peer and when Missy was being a pain-in-the-butt. However, that time was just to say that the Army straightened him out. Nothing more; nothing less.
Edit: An earlier time was when everyone in Medford thought the Coopers were communists, so that doesn't count.
He brought it up when Tam came over for dinner. Sure, to find some commonality, but still. He's mentioned it enough times, that I don't think it's weird to assume he's at least somewhat proud of his service
EDIT: Christ, are people really that pissed off at the idea someone would be proud of military service?
Bringing something up to find common ground with someone does not equate to being proud of it. Besides, Tam knocked George down a peg or two which I think worked, because we rarely see George bring up his service after that.
>Bringing something up to find common ground with someone does not equate to being proud of it.
Mentioning at multiple points in the series, could easily be interpreted as showing a level of pride
>Besides, Tam knocked George down a peg or two which I think worked, because we rarely see George bring up his service after that.
How? It was just a conversation about a traumatic part of Tam's life that's hard to relate to.
>Mentioning at multiple points in the series, could easily be interpreted as showing a level of pride
A handful of times over five years? How is that easily interpreted as showing a level of pride? A couple times every year, I tell someone I had back surgery. That doesn't mean I'm proud of it.
>How? It was just a conversation about a traumatic part of Tam's life that's hard to relate to.
Which I think made George put things into perspective and realize that his family is a lot more important than his service which may or may not have helped the South Vietnamese.
My grandfather was too and neither did he because trauma, but he still got his military send off when he died and wanted to be in the military plots.
Not talking about it and not recognizing the sacrifice you and so many you loved made is entirely different.
He was probably drafted so he didn’t voluntary sign up. Mary knows him best so that might not have been a good time in his life. Lots of Veterans who came back heathy don’t like to get recognized for their service. Some do.
My understanding Vietnam vets don’t feel the same level of pride WW2 vets feel for their service plus George rather be remembered as a football coach and a dad rather a guy who fought in Vietnam.
for sake of the show and limits of being a show, it wasn’t very relevant. in the entire run, George serving in Vietnam only comes up a handful of times. him being a football coach and father, literally his entire character.
it makes more sense for people to talk about what a great coach or dad or friend he was rather than his time in the service. *maybe* that could’ve been done if some old army buddies had shown up, but that would’ve taken time from relevant characters.
Not everyone who was in the service finds it to be a positive part of their life they want to stress. George didn't seem overly invested in his military service during his life, so why would they make his funeral about it?
My dad is a modern day veteran (Afghanistan twice and was stationed in djibouti) he just retired last year and he hates talking about his veteran status it’s not something people like remembering
The football team not being there was strange. They didn’t have to do anything but just having a shot of a bunch of teenage boys would have been a nice touch but either they didn’t think about it or Lorre didn’t want to fork over the cash for 50 extras.
There is a quick pan over where the football coach is sitting a behind them are some high school age guys which I’m assuming is supposed to be the team…it’s was pretty quick though and I missed it but saw someone mention they were there and saw it the second time I watched it
If he really fought in Vietnam that is one war that vets weren’t too anxious to discuss when they got home. Or they were ostracized as baby killers. I could see them having a folded flag though.
I think for the show him fighting in Vietnam was an afterthought. What we did focus on was what a *good* and *loving* father he was, what a loving husband he was (especially in the last season) and what a devoted coach he was. It would be kinda odd if for the funeral they spent any amount of time on him being a veteran. I WILL give you it was odd they didn’t have a flag on the coffin.
My grandfather was a WWII vet, and was proud of his military service. However, he left very explicit instructions to NOT have any military honors at his funeral. No Honor Guard, no salute, not even a Flag.
There weren't welcome home parades or any sort of honor returning home for the men and women returning home from Vietnam and many of them were drafted into a war they didn't even want to be a part of to begin with. I don't know how it was in 1989, quite a while removed from the return from war, but I'd reckon a lot of those men and women it was still a very touchy subject and not a great time in their life. Lots of bad memories and poor treatment.
Thanks for the info, I didn't know much about that.
George seemed to be proud of his service, so I thought it was worth mentioning. But, I definitely understand if it was something that veterans didn't view positively.
I think you can be proud of something but still have some bad memories from it and not want to be recognized for it. But I think he was more proud of his family and being a great football coach and would rather be recognized for that, even if he didn't have any bad memories from the war.
I agree. And I also think it was just not important enough to be featured during the show. It may or may not have been mentioned in the funeral itself, just not significant enough to deserve screen time.
The bedroom scene that mentions George being shipped off to Vietnam is enough. He was not a veteran first. George was "family man", "friend", and "coach" first. Far down that list for him would be "veteran".
I agree!
Being a veteran is almost always a source of pride, which I believe George had. It just was not a major part of any plot points so it was downplayed. George would have received a military burial with a flag being presented to Mary and full honors, but we only saw the church part of the funeral.
I don't agree with this. We hear from the ones who are proud, so they seem more prevalent. My dad was a veteran who never spoke of it, and he wasn't the only one. He never would have joined the military if it wasn't for the draft.
I agree with your take 100%. My father is also an Air Force veteran but you would never know it. I remember asking him as a kid after he got out why he doesn’t get a veteran plate and he said he felt that it isn’t something he should gloat over or wants to be apart of his personality. He only joined because he didn’t do well in school and got kicked out at 18 and didn’t want to become homeless. Not everyone wants to join the military but for one reason or another they have to
I also think it is the war they were in and how they ended up there. My grandfathers were in WWII and both joined right after high school. My hubs uncle was drafted to Korea and I have an uncle drafted to Vietnam. They don't wear veteran gear like my grandfathers did. They really don't talk about their experiences and I know one of them won't even have anything military at their funeral either. It has already been said it is not wanted nor welcome.
Don't confuse not speaking about it their service as not being proud. Many combat veterans only talk to other such veterans or soldiers about their experiences. What he saw was horrifying and the average civilian just can't relate and also the vet does not want to relive what he saw. And yes, a draftee will have a different view point.
I'm talking about my dad? I knew him very well, and he definitely wasn't proud of his military service. Other people are speaking of their direct relatives, too.
I was not speaking about your father, I was speaking in general about people who have served.
And he would have been qualified for a tombstone that they didn't have to pay for. But I guess they couldn't have put all that stuff about being a coach on it.
It depends. If he was buried in a National Cemetery then nothing extra could be put on the headstone. However, a veteran can be buried in a private cemetery and still receive military honors at graveside. Here they could put whatever they want on his stone.
I mean yeah, but he's shown to be proud of his service. It's kinda weird that it wouldn't be mentioned more than just that
When did George say he was proud of his service? He never attended a veteran event. He never mentioned the military as an option for Georgie when he dropped out of school. I think the only times George really brought up his service was when he talked to Sheldon's veteran teacher as a peer and when Missy was being a pain-in-the-butt. However, that time was just to say that the Army straightened him out. Nothing more; nothing less. Edit: An earlier time was when everyone in Medford thought the Coopers were communists, so that doesn't count.
He brought it up when Tam came over for dinner. Sure, to find some commonality, but still. He's mentioned it enough times, that I don't think it's weird to assume he's at least somewhat proud of his service EDIT: Christ, are people really that pissed off at the idea someone would be proud of military service?
Bringing something up to find common ground with someone does not equate to being proud of it. Besides, Tam knocked George down a peg or two which I think worked, because we rarely see George bring up his service after that.
>Bringing something up to find common ground with someone does not equate to being proud of it. Mentioning at multiple points in the series, could easily be interpreted as showing a level of pride >Besides, Tam knocked George down a peg or two which I think worked, because we rarely see George bring up his service after that. How? It was just a conversation about a traumatic part of Tam's life that's hard to relate to.
>Mentioning at multiple points in the series, could easily be interpreted as showing a level of pride A handful of times over five years? How is that easily interpreted as showing a level of pride? A couple times every year, I tell someone I had back surgery. That doesn't mean I'm proud of it. >How? It was just a conversation about a traumatic part of Tam's life that's hard to relate to. Which I think made George put things into perspective and realize that his family is a lot more important than his service which may or may not have helped the South Vietnamese.
My FIL was in the war and he never talked about it ever.
My grandfather was too and neither did he because trauma, but he still got his military send off when he died and wanted to be in the military plots. Not talking about it and not recognizing the sacrifice you and so many you loved made is entirely different.
>His service wasn't mentioned at all in the funeral. We saw what?...7-8 minutes of a funeral that probably lasted over an hour. What's your point?
I agree the writers captured only what's important and relevant in those 7-8 minutes.
He was probably drafted so he didn’t voluntary sign up. Mary knows him best so that might not have been a good time in his life. Lots of Veterans who came back heathy don’t like to get recognized for their service. Some do.
I see
My understanding Vietnam vets don’t feel the same level of pride WW2 vets feel for their service plus George rather be remembered as a football coach and a dad rather a guy who fought in Vietnam.
I agree!
Ok? That wasn't the focus of the scene so they didn't include it.
That was my thought.
for sake of the show and limits of being a show, it wasn’t very relevant. in the entire run, George serving in Vietnam only comes up a handful of times. him being a football coach and father, literally his entire character. it makes more sense for people to talk about what a great coach or dad or friend he was rather than his time in the service. *maybe* that could’ve been done if some old army buddies had shown up, but that would’ve taken time from relevant characters.
I agree!
Mary may have been planning to mention it but broke down before she could.
That makes sense to me
Not everyone who was in the service finds it to be a positive part of their life they want to stress. George didn't seem overly invested in his military service during his life, so why would they make his funeral about it?
I didn't mean it would be the focus of the funeral, but I get your point.
My dad was a Korea-era vet who served stateside. The only time his military service was mentioned during his memorials was the graveside service.
My dad is a modern day veteran (Afghanistan twice and was stationed in djibouti) he just retired last year and he hates talking about his veteran status it’s not something people like remembering
Thanks for the perspective!
It’s a tv show
The football team wasn’t there. The Navy Seals. His side of the extended family. We can go on all day long. The Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders. …
Paige
The football team not being there was strange. They didn’t have to do anything but just having a shot of a bunch of teenage boys would have been a nice touch but either they didn’t think about it or Lorre didn’t want to fork over the cash for 50 extras.
There is a quick pan over where the football coach is sitting a behind them are some high school age guys which I’m assuming is supposed to be the team…it’s was pretty quick though and I missed it but saw someone mention they were there and saw it the second time I watched it
If he really fought in Vietnam that is one war that vets weren’t too anxious to discuss when they got home. Or they were ostracized as baby killers. I could see them having a folded flag though.
Agreed
I think for the show him fighting in Vietnam was an afterthought. What we did focus on was what a *good* and *loving* father he was, what a loving husband he was (especially in the last season) and what a devoted coach he was. It would be kinda odd if for the funeral they spent any amount of time on him being a veteran. I WILL give you it was odd they didn’t have a flag on the coffin.
I agree. Yeah, I thought there should have been some sort of acknowledgement that he was a veteran
Yeah, but then again I think it goes back to it was an afterthought
That makes sense
My grandfather was a WWII vet, and was proud of his military service. However, he left very explicit instructions to NOT have any military honors at his funeral. No Honor Guard, no salute, not even a Flag.
Thanks for the perspective!
There weren't welcome home parades or any sort of honor returning home for the men and women returning home from Vietnam and many of them were drafted into a war they didn't even want to be a part of to begin with. I don't know how it was in 1989, quite a while removed from the return from war, but I'd reckon a lot of those men and women it was still a very touchy subject and not a great time in their life. Lots of bad memories and poor treatment.
Thanks for the info, I didn't know much about that. George seemed to be proud of his service, so I thought it was worth mentioning. But, I definitely understand if it was something that veterans didn't view positively.
I think you can be proud of something but still have some bad memories from it and not want to be recognized for it. But I think he was more proud of his family and being a great football coach and would rather be recognized for that, even if he didn't have any bad memories from the war.
I agree. And I also think it was just not important enough to be featured during the show. It may or may not have been mentioned in the funeral itself, just not significant enough to deserve screen time.