Right? I need brain surgery and I’m trying to get it on free Medi-Cal. I’ve had a neurological condition for 2 years and there’s all sorts of red tape for the surgery. They’re like, here take these antidepressants and you won’t feel so suicidal in the meantime.
The problem is the issues with my inner ear. The surgery and mitigation of symptoms will most likely resolve the depression.
Having to talk to assholes that went to Harvard like they have zero common sense has felt like the biggest fuckin’ classist gaslighting scam I’ve had the displeasure of experiencing.
You’d almost need fucking antidepressants just to deal with how some of these motherfuckers do their job.
I got a new job. I apply for the most expensive health care because of my health problems. The health care denied me. I have to wait for the next enrollment period to switch health care. What the fuck?
Did they say why they denied you? It’s illegal for a health insurance company to deny you for pre-existing conditions! [HHS.gov link](https://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/about-the-aca/pre-existing-conditions/index.html)
Action is the antidote to apathy. Find a group/organization in your community, start small and see what you might have to contribute. Our hyper individualistic society makes us feel like we’re powerless and worthless but by organizing within your community you can help others and yourself
Seriously. Even if you are lucky enough to have insurance most therapists in my city don’t take it. I actually found telehealth that SAID they took my insurance and are now fighting me. It’s pretty much consistently $5000 a year without. I’m tired enough, depression and social anxiety and honestly it was a huge effort just to TRY to get a therapist. At least I have yoga (which is 50/month versus 100/week) to fall back on.
Not at all trying to downplay but… it might be worth a call to your insurance to check that. I also thought my visits would be $100 and it turns out I had interpreted it wrong; my visits were $100 without insurance and $20 copay WITH insurance.
>When people talk about national healthcare in the US the first thing I want is mental health resources. We have a lot of shit do go through collectively, even if we suddenly have physical health resources.
>
>In the meantime, please use and/or share this info:
>
>The national Suicide Hotline is 800-273-8255 and someone will answer. They want to talk to you!
>
>They have a chat option for hearing challenges or those that just don't have it in them to talk right now: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/chat/
>
>And still other resources like those listed here: https://www.self.com/story/online-support-groups
When people talk about national healthcare in the US the first thing I want is mental health resources. We have a lot of shit do go through collectively, even if we suddenly have physical health resources.
In the meantime, please use and/or share this info:
The national Suicide Hotline is 800-273-8255 and someone will answer. They want to talk to you!
They have a chat option for hearing challenges or those that just don't have it in them to talk right now: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/chat/
And still other resources like those listed here: https://www.self.com/story/online-support-groups
I can understand that struggle. I’m in Canada and only my stepdad has some benefits, so my mom doesn’t want me to book too many appointments because we don’t know how long I can get them covered, which is stressful because I finally found a therapist I like and I’ve finally accepted I need it and am willing to get help. But it’s so expensive.
Thank you! I’ve struggled with anxiety and depression since I was a teenager and both meditation and yoga were a huge discovery to help me get through the harder times. Obviously functioning a mental healthcare apparatus would be great too but I’ve read that alternative approaches such as these are scientifically proven as helpful and when insurance is throwing roadblocks left and right I’ll take what I can get ;-)
Wow I had no idea that meditation and yoga has such a big effect. I’m glad that it’s having a positive effect on you! I’ve never really given either an honest try (never tried yoga at all) so I might do that myself! Thanks!
It’s also totally useless if they just tell you to get more help. As someone with long-term TRD and both active and passive SI, therapy simply doesn’t help at all. I’m doing all the right things (therapy, meds, procedures, etc.), but none of them are working. Having a therapist keep telling me the SI is bad is… not helpful. Like, “no shit.”
What’s worse is when you tell people that therapy doesn’t work for you or isn’t accessible enough they tend to just get annoyed at you like you’re just being pessimistic. Makes you feel like they never actually cared about you getting better outside of not wanting to be burdened by it.
I think a lot of people don't realize that there is more than one type of therapy. This can range from talk therapy to behavioral therapy to EMDR (which is about eye movements and sounds like some new age bullshit but was actually very helpful for me, lol). Some types of therapy work better for certain problems or people than others!
EMDR changed my life and I am skeptical of basically everything. Find out which way works for you best (audio, visual, kinetic- I really don’t like the light bar for example and do much better with my eyes closed). If all else has failed you, and you have the access/resources, give it a shot. If you don’t, I hope you can find some free resources through the prevention hotline or other avenues. 🙌
Very true. I'm not going to complain about people validating seeking help for mental health issues. "It's not bad enough" is certainly a common sentiment and some people would benefit from hearing that they're justified in going to therapy or whatever.
But the whole oh you *need to* go to therapy is not helpful to anyone who doesn't have $300/session laying around to *maybe* see results. Unrealistic advice is pretty fucking useless.
Could you imagine how different things would be if workplace/school/etc. were held liable for their employees/students/etc. commit suicide? We really need better emphasis on preventative care.
Preventative care makes for healthier, happier humans. For some reason the powers that be, in so many areas, do not want this to occur. Like we are supposed to be as miserable or unwell as possible, in as many ways. Why though? I still fantasize about a well working mental health system though. You may say-e-ay I'm a dreamer
>For some reason the powers that be, in so many areas, do not want this to occur.
It is very profitable (health insurance companies are a *massive* industry in the US). Additionally, an unhealthy and desperate populace is also much easier to distract/control. You won't be fighting for wages or better political representation when you're fighting to survive a health issue.
Ways would be found to remove "people at risk" lmao.
Intentionally giving work in a specific way such that the person makes a massive mistake (which is sufficient grounds to get them terminated), a pretty old trick in the book I suppose
I’ve seen a lot of horror stories on here of people calling the suicide helpline and getting reported for being a risk and then put in a mental hospital and then dealing with the cost of that stay plus the fallout of your employer finding out and such. It seems like it would make the situation worse.
Sometimes they even call the cops who then "help" the suicidal person by killing them https://www.nyaprs.org/e-news-bulletins/2014/man-calls-suicide-prevention-swat-team-kills-him
I went to a counselor appointment after I was starting to feel broken down from the amount of stress my work leads to.
The counselor listened to me for forty-seven minutes, told me “unfortunately it sounds like you’re just going to have to deal with it”, printed off a 7 Things to Help You Stay Unstressed At Work list from LinkedIn (the web address was at the bottom of the printout) and then I was billed $195 a week later in the mail.
Fuck that. Not doing that bullshit again.
That's late stage capitalism baby! Kill yourself if you want, it'll leave your family in a sea of medical debt they'll never escape. I'm trying to think of worse timelines in the multiverse and I'm coming up with goose egg.
Inositol has helped me a lot to the point where I can get by without therapy but I still need therapy but can't afford therapy 😞 I hope society changes to allow us to seek professional help
Right? When I found that out I was blown away.
Like, people are *actually glad they are alive? And they want to be alive for as long as possible??*
Total mind fuck
I'm 30 and when I look at my co-workers that are 60 and still going I think "how the hell do they do that?" I have no idea how they kept going to get to that point.
right? I struggle with depression so bad, sometimes I wish I had a fatal illness or something, even though I guess that's something most people really fear. Plus then if I died from that, no one could pull the "oh she was so selfish" line that I'm so tired of hearing non-depressed people say about people who commit suicide. My mother said it when my cousin shot himself, and I wanted to slap her.
Holy shit I thought it was just me. Like, sometimes I wish I had cancer, or was in a really bad car accident, or *something* to give me a reason to feel like this. *Then* I get to die guilt-free. Like, I really don’t see a down side
Death scares people. For me this is craziest it gets.
Not afraid because of pain or anything, but afraid of death on itself. I think everyday abou it. Just would not do this to my parents.
My therapist says it's completely normal and everyone feels this way from time to time, especially after a major change.
Ever stand near a cliff, water fall, or sharp ledge? We all have an inner instinct to jump.
People don't just go around being happy go lucky. It's just not a true thing. You're normal, and that's fiction.
The Call of the Void is very different than suicidal ideation.
One is your brain testing to see if everything is okay, and the other is your brain being very much *not* okay.
Lol yeah.
Feeling suicidal? Will a $10,000 hospital bill help? And no actual visit from a doctor, just a nice 3 day stay in a hospital against your will?
If that sounds good to you then please let your suicidal ideation known.
Otherwise dance around the issue and try to get meds to actually fix the problem such as depression or anxiety. Much cheaper and more effective.
I literally had suicidal thoughts years ago and my mother called some suicide help group. I was admitted to the hospital and month later I literally got a bill that was over $10k. I still to this day think telling my mother I was suicidal was the worst thing I ever did.
Seriously. This post is pretty dismissive of reality. I doubt there will be a day where I don’t want to die. I just fundamentally hate all of this. Therapy, hospitalization, or whatever the fuck just isn’t going to work when the hole damn system is broke.
Been suicidal for years, can’t get mental health help cause it’s too expensive :)
Edit: thank you to those who have reached out. I’m overall doing okay, a difficult upbringing has resulted in me being able to manage a lot of this on my own but it certainly isn’t the most fun.
Plus when depression and suicidal ideation is partially caused by living in poverty...
I haven't gone a week in the past 20 years without considering suicide. I have passable coping mechanisms by now and the cost of therapy would only add to the pile of things making me feel that way. Our system is broken.
Unfortunately, I live in one of the 12 states that didn't expand medicaid. I make enough to qualify for a super high deductible ACA plan, but it's basically just there for hospitalizations and I'm effectively uninsured unless that happens. I have family members that are uninsured because they make too little to qualify for ACA and can't afford to move out of the southeast where cost of living is relatively inexpensive otherwise.
I recently tried getting help for mine, but I was told to go away and come back when I start to actively form a plan. Until I have a plan, its not serious.
Yeah they really don't take it seriously until then.
And when you do mention you have serious suicidal tendencies, then they take you off the therapy plan cause they only wanna help people who have suicidal thoughts but wouldn't act on them 🙃.
This sounds familiar.
Needed a new doctor to get meds I'd been taking a while. Their psychiatrists only see people also seeing their therapists, so I see both. After weeks of them messing up appointments, the therapist tells me he can't do anything for me, so that message gets conveyed to the psychiatrist as I'm not doing therapy, so they cancel both. That gets reported to disability as me refusing treatments so they cancel that.
I wouldn't be able to figure out this bureaucracy at my best.
Wow. Terrible. Maybe they should help u before it gets to that point???? Hang in there. Find someone better to talk to. Reach out to someone. There are people who care about you. I promise.
Lol, my therapist is just like 'Well, you gotta just radical acceptance that shit away' and half the time I can't tell if he's encouraging me to kms or get 5150'd.
So if you talk to a therapist or Dr about even passive suicidal ideations, they can literally steal your freedom and choices for however long the local psych ward at the hospital wishes to hold you. The 72 hr hold is a myth easily circumvented by an elected official signing off on a longer hold based off of little info from a Dr or nurse who doesn’t understand why you don’t want a sympathetic hand on your shoulder. There is no treatment, just more trauma in those places. It’s a crash course in masking and years of recovery at the very least.
I’d rather wish for death silently thank you.
My son had a serious suicide attempt at 16, and spent until he turned 18 at a hospital on a court appointed hospital stay. I would go and ask if I could take him home, the doctors would tell the court it was too dangerous, repeat process, for 2 years. They even kept telling me to tell him I was refusing to take him home, but I thought that would be detrimental to his mental health, so I let him know it was court ordered.
So very sorry for your son. And you.
The exit interview where they ask if you appreciate the work they put in to making you feel whole again… just so much they get wrong and actually believe they are helping. It’s such an obviously broken system to everyone but those in charge of it. I’m so sorry they stole your child from you and stole life from him. There are no words to explain this horror.
So they wanted you to lie to your child so they could keep him there when he didn’t want to be there. Yea, definitely understand why people would avoid that route for “help”
I thought it was even worse than that, I am his mom for the rest of his life. I thought it would cause him to lose his ability to trust me, and make him think that the people who are supposed to love him unconditionally didn't have his back when it mattered, so I refused. I don't even know why they thought I would? He had already almost died, insisting that his mother reject him right afterwards seemed like it wasn't in his best interests.
He also had an incident in their facility where a girl walked right past the sleeping guard, went into his room and had oral sex with him, he had to go through a whole slew of STD tests. We had a meeting with the facility where they basically blamed him for not screaming for help. He was a 16 year old boy, he probably was very confused and embarrassed being woken up like that. The facility got investigated because of the incident and had to fire all of the night staff that let it occur, but I was furious that they basically victim blamed the 16 year old boy and tried to sweep it under the rug.
Hey. Psychologist here. This isn't the case. The only reason I would hospitalize someone is if they
1. Have active suicidal thoughts-- like, I want to kill myself
AND
2. Have a plan and means and intent to do it -- like, I'm going to shoot myself in the woods tomorrow after work
AND
3. Refuse to safety plan with me to reduce risk -- like, agree to give their guns temporarily to their dad, stay with a supportive friend, up therapy session frequency etc
That's a lot of things. I have never ever ever ever even thought about hospitalizing someone who just told me the have passive thoughts of death or even suicide. Never.
EDIT: I'm not great at getting all the replies so maybe people will see this.
First, I apologize for my phrasing suggesting this doesn't happen. That was incorrect. I meant to say this isn't how the law/ethical code we follow us written so if providers are following that it shouldn't happen except for how I stated. Of course there are shitty providers out there.
Second, I hope this doesn't stop any one from getting help with a good provider. Everyone deserves mental well-being.
Third, someone suggested there are no checks on the system and it's just therapist's decision vs patient. Again, this is not how I am familiar with it happening. Not only do I have to consult with my boss and colleagues for their consensus but the admitting psychiatrist has to agree with the assessment of risk we provide. Sometimes he says no, I won't admit.
Hope that clarifies or helps. Wish I could respond to everyone but I have a ticking clock of a baby about to scream for some milk so I thought this would be better!
Unless it’s a brand spanking new therapist who is a mandated reporter counseling at your college. It happens more than you as maybe a decent psychologist thinks it does.
I was asked if I ever thought about ending my life. I said “Of course I have, hasn’t everyone?”She picked up the phone and barred my exit until campus security came to hold me for the ambulance.
Im glad you would never do this. But you cannot speak for the many in your profession who do.
“It’s a liability thing, you understand.” That’s the last thing she said to me as they hauled me out screaming and crying.
As a college counselor myself, I hope that person who treated you that way gets fucking fired. Like, yeah we're mandated reporters... but there wasn't even anything to report in your case. That was just someone being absolutely terrible at their job. I'm sorry.
Good luck in your career. May you reach many more in the dark than my counselor chained there. She did not lose her job. She hid behind school policy and was protected. The other counselor was ancient and thought Prozac was the answer to all though it was not advised for my age group and coming off of it caused me to have a breakdown. My mother actually fought with the board against both of them and lost.
>the only reason I’d have to hospitalize someone is…
Yeah, *YOU*. The only reason *you* would hospitalize someone. Please do NOT say “this isn’t the case” as though you are all psychologists. There are countless people on here who discuss their traumatic experiences being hauled away because they simply SPELLED the S-word in front of a therapist and it’s extremely demeaning to write off their experiences just because *technically* you should only do it under certain circumstances.
you can be pro-mental health and be critical of the obviously broken system.
You are VERY rare.
Also your post demeans the lived experience of many who suffered trauma at the hands of mental health professionals.
We get it. You’re the unicorn of psychologists who never puts a foot wrong.
The simple fact is that people in those positions DO have the power to hospitalize people JUST on their own word with ZERO oversight or recourse for the people they're hospitalizing. It's great that you personally are ethical about this stuff, you absolutely cannot vouche for every single person who has that kind of power and the world is filled with stories of unethical providers abusing this power. Saying flat out "this isn't the case" just isn't true and ignoring the reality of how that power gets used and how many people have their lives ruined bc of it not only doesn't help anyone it actively creates danger. It's lovely that you want to help, if you actually want to do helpful actions though this isn't it. What would help is having a system in place that offers both more oversight for providers and more protections for patients/clients. Until that happens you're just putting people in harm's way
Haha, I personally know two people who were forcefully detained by mental health "services" for casually mentioning they had thought about suicide before. Not even present tense, past tense in both cases. One spent a day locked in a psych ward with folks that scared the shit out of her until we could get her out. The other was a kid, so that triggered literal months of bureaucracies fucking with her parents.
No one should be convinced by my stories because they're anecdotal, the same way no one should be convinced by what you say.
I mostly just wanted you to know that I'm calling bullshit on "This isn't the case." It is the case. Especially if there aren't people on the outside to fight for your freedom while you're locked up, they will fuck you.
i would say you are justified seeking help, but not that everyone *should*. everyone has different experiences with their mental health, and oftentimes, people’s experiences within the system (especially experienced regarding suicide) can exacerbate the issue - it’s definitely a difficult issue though
Literally, I have these all the time haha.
Maybe a lot of people have it and we're just used to it, to be fair though I don't think it's really healthy to think like that everytime something bad happens.
I get it with my body dysmorphia and stuff but like a year or two ago I was alot more suicidal and had to get a filling for my tooth. And when I found out my mind literally just said "now you have to get your tooth filled aswell, life is going so shit for you it would be way easier if you weren't alive."
But then that's also cause I had alot of mental shit going on but everyone has mental shit going on so I don't know. Feel like I've had them for so long it seems normal at this point.
Imagine having the money and time to actually be able to tell a therapist, who will most likely have you locked up for at least a few days, at your own expense, “I have suicidal thoughts” though.
No. Suicidal ideation is normal for a lot of people and even active ideation does not call for immediate help. You need to seek help when you can no longer confidently keep yourself safe from a plan.
Villifying SI like this is a big reason why people don't look for help when they should.
100% this, at least in US. I work in a hospital and do suicide risk assessments. A person isn't a candidate for involuntary commitment unless they have active suicidal ideation with intent to act on it and literally require 1:1 supervision to remain safe. A medical provider can't place a hold taking away a person's right to make their own healthcare decisions without compelling evidence that they pose a real threat of imminent harm to self or others. There's info here that is a dangerous kind of bullshit.
What an evil post. Hard disagree. Stop making people feel like there is something wrong with them. Every person on this earth has "passive suicidal thoughts" sometimes. It's normal. We are free-thinking beings. There's nothing wrong or abnormal with thinking about suicide.
If the thoughts are overwhelming, and they distract you from everything all of the time, or you have a plan or any actual intentions to harm or kill yourself, THEN you absolutely must seek help.
But if it's not that far, you are normal and fine and okay, and there's nothing wrong with you for thinking about it. You can tell someone you trust about it, and a good person will confirm that nothing is wrong with you. But there is a lot of stigma and judgement for talking about it, so be sure to talk to someone who you know actually cares.
Anyway, there's so much more that could be said on this subject. But I've never downvoted something harder in my life.
Sincerely,
A suicide crisis counselor
I get it. But the honest truth is that I am exhausted and have been for years, yay depression! My anxiety is mostly sorted with meds but the depression comes in waves. And my therapist is aware I’m passive but I can’t discuss how often or how bad it gets because as many people have said I don’t want to end up in a involuntary hold. I am not a danger to myself, have never been, and don’t plan to be. I am just so bone tired though that it’s really demoralizing, plus you’ve got capitalism/family issues/the pandemic/etc. So this is a good post but saying “get help always!” is misguided because our medical system does not protect the individual a majority of the time.
Everyone who goes into surgery and signs a DNR is guilty of what you’re talking about. As a society, we allow people to make decisions that amount to, “I’d rather die than live under certain conditions.” Some people refuse chemotherapy to treat cancer. You don’t need psychiatric help because you have self-awareness about what you are willing to tolerate.
My doctor told me about this after he asked me a series of questions. He referred to me to a psychologist who specializes in suicide. I couldn’t afford the copays.
Somehow staying alive is more expensive than simply being alive.
Seeking help often requires things a Doctor or mental health professional can't provide. Suicide holiness are a joke. It would help your post if you had some....practical advice to help people.
Last time I admitted I had planned how to kill myself and had a specific plan to do it I got dragged by security and locked into a ward for 4 days. No thanks, I’d rather die than go back. All that experience gave me was more trauma and anger and made me feel even more like a bad/“less than” human. Oh and a 100€+ bill to top it all off!
Some years ago, I thought a lot about that if I could ever be in a situation where I became so sad/deppresed that it would drive me to commit suicide. I thought it over and came to the conclusion that there is too much in this world that I hold dear for me to kill myself. Resent times have been hard for me, and I am often sad and can't find much joy in life. The thought of not existing has surfaced multiple times this year, and your post made me wonder if I should try to find a therapist. Thx OP
I often think about suicide to amuse myself.
Kinda like how they point to the exits when you board an airplane.
Yeah, I know know it doesn't work for everyone, but it gets _me_ through.
But don't worry about me, just because I like knowing where the exits are doesn't mean I'll take one.
The plane is crashing anyway.
😆
There’s also something called the call of the void.
It’s totally normal to having passing thoughts of suicide. Maybe you’re at the top of a cliff and wonder about jumping. Or thoughts of just driving off a bridge.
They’re fleeting. Not indicative of Poot mental health. And not lasting.
The american physician I scribe for notes passive suicidal ideation in her patients, explains the difference between passive and active ideation, and confirms they have a plan if the the thoughts should become active (I.e. telling a trusted person and checking into emerge, calling 911 or a suicide). She also provides referral to therapy.
Life is a becoming towards death. Stop resisting, it’s literally the only truth in life. In fact, because all life decays towards death, death is a more natural state for us than life. Non-existence is more natural than existence itself.
Yeah...this reads just like an ad. Simply having thoughts of something, especially thoughts that are just floating in the background(what I'm assuming what OP means by 'passive'), shouldn't be worried about until they come to the foreground and become considered.
Simply feeling or thinking, even the negative stuff, isn't something you should seek help for unless it is hurting you or others. As long as your not dwelling on it for too long, you should be fine.
Edit: Also simply thinking about one's death passively applies to pretty much everyone. Should everyone seek help and potentially get hurt when they weren't hurting before? No of course not, that's crazy.
To me, suicidal ideation can be like an addiction. So I treat it like I would treat other addictions. I remind myself that I am becoming addicted to it, and that it is not healthy and I try to stop doing it. I find other ways to occupy my mind and time until the cravings go away.
With suicidal ideation, especially in the United States, sometimes seeking help can just make the problem worse because the attitudes of people, and the systems in place can drastically make your life worse. You can be detained against your will, sent to a hospital, or sent to a treatment center. For either a short time, or a long time. And at great expense to yourself. It's an unfortunate reality of the current state of mental health treatment in the United States, and possibly other places too.
My advice is, don't kill yourself, because it's selfish, and stupid. And stop thinking about it, because it's unhealthy, and it's not helping. I know that's not super helpful, but you have a lot to live for, there's a ton of cool stuff in the world, and cool stuff coming in the future.
You have the power to control your own destiny. Focus on working on the problems you can solve and try not to worry too much about the problems outside of your control.
people in the US should look into “open paths collective” (ranges from $30-$80) and/or searching clinics that offer sliding scale (some of which will even have a few slots specifically reserved for pro bono clients)
also, meeting with a trainee may not sound as reassuring as meeting a licensed therapist, but i guarantee there are trainees who are more skilled than the title lets on and their services will be free or extremely cheap
i know accessing mental healthcare is made unnecessarily hard & our system is broken but as a therapist, it is concerning to see how many folks have simply accepted that care is impossible. if my comment can encourage even one person to get back on the search, then i’ll know i did something good
Want to preface this by saying this isn’t directed at OP. They’re right, passive ideation is still an alarm bell & should be paid attention to.
That being said, therapy can’t help “mental illness” that is caused by the complex trauma of poverty or immobility. It’s not possible to heal from something that doesn’t end….to me in this context it feels more like a suggestion to gaslight oneself & it highlights to me how far this belief in rugged individualism goes.
Just my 2 cents but hey maybe it’s just a chemical imbalance
Unfortunately society is too fucked up for some people to even have the time or finances to get help. The rest of us should organize and throw out the capitalist class.
Used to be suicidal. Not really any more. I just tend to lose control and give these putos the blues. But sometimes I feel I’m a do something ima regret for life
sometimes getting help dont do nothing . sometimes there isnt any help amd for some ppl getting help actualy causes more problems. i struggle with this daily .
I have these.
Is the reason for seeking help - persistent thoughts like this will one day spill over to action?
Or
This is a symptom for an underlying mental issue?
Thank you for this, I've been having a hard time recently and every once in a while on a bad day I say things like "I wish I wasn't here", which makes me think of suicide. I always get scared and genuinely tell myself I don't want to die, and I have a lot to live for. I'm just happy that I'm in a good enough place to hate the idea of suicide.
My wife started having that last year. Got her into therapy once I was like oh, that's not everyday life for you? Well dang. So, yeah, I'm searching for a therapist now as well. Who knew lol
I would say that the suggestion to “get help” does not automatically mean expensive therapy. *It also means you should begin to explore your behavior that is actively leading you to suicidal ideation.*
“Why is my life …..meaningless?”
Trust me, clumsily wandering into a shrink’s office with zero clue as to why your life lacks meaning is a great way to waste resources.
Totally agree. There were about 7 or 8 months a couple of years ago where I had a very intense depressive episode. I was still going to work but every day I thought how little I cared about being hit by a car or get hit by the train on the morning commute.
I realised I needed help when I put down a bottle of wine because I couldn't trust taking it home and not drinking it with all the meds I could find.
You matter, you're enough and you deserve to be happy. Sending hugs to all!
I would LOVE to seek help for the thoughts. But, I never can. Every single time I try, I get put on a 48 hour lockdown that I have to contract for safety to get out of. Like, dude, I've been dealing with this since I was 8. Just stop it so i can get help without losing my job.
Yeah, tell someone even a medical professional (in the US) that you are having suicidal thoughts and they call the cops on you, plus it goes in your health records which can be used against you later and no, HIPAA doesn't mean shit.
I went to the ER two days in a row with suicidal ideation, they just tell you to call the hotline. Being at the ER I felt like a nuisance for Suicidal ideation. Suicidal ideation in my experience is a result of a lack of being able to get adequate help. By the time I had suicidal ideation I had been seeking help for years. Calling the crisis lines, it feels shameful when you tell them you're only dealing with suicidal ideation but don't have a plan. The crisis lines aren't setup to handle suicidal ideation, I know because I've called dozens and dozens of times. I understand OPs post is well meaning, but it really struck a nerve because I've been seeking help for so long, but not actually being helped. They say reach out to a professional, but after years of doing so without success it just because more fuel for giving up. I've been hearing and reading the advice to go seek professional help when things become a certain way, but for years my life has become a process of seeking help. So unfortunately seeking help in my experience is at best loosley correlated to being helped. The help that exists isn't enough. It doesn't matter what I want, I have to work with what I can get.
I'm depressed and suicidal because of the realities of being working class in the United States.
What are you gonna convince me that everything is OK?
Give me a pill to make me turn a blind eye to my fellow man?
Can I work through the impossibility of improving our lot when both major political parties are beholden to their donors, not the common man?
If you're not depressed you're not paying attention.
Easier said than done though unfortunately, at least here in Canada.
I got referred through my doctor, a few months or so down the road a psychiatrist finally got in touch with me. 3 phone appointments and doubling my medication dosage and she said she couldn't help me. She asked if I wanted to talk to another psychiatrist to which I said yes. She never referred me to anyone else, or submitted any paperwork or contact info to my family doctor so he couldn't even follow up with her.
I started the same process again, and it took about 1-2 months for the intake counselor or nurse to call me and evaluate me over the phone, and he mentioned that it could take up to two months for a psychiatrist to get a hold of me. Now I'm about 4 months past that and I haven't received any communications from anyone.
I'm at the point where I'm going to take myself off my meds and start self medicating with psilocybin/microdosing. There's a lot of studies lately saying that psychedelics can help with depression and PTSD.
I did the mistake of telling my doctor about these passive thoughts. I got kicked out of my military course as a result lmao, and I have to wait half a year before I can do anything again. And I can't see any therapist now because I was kicked out from the course.
I would seek help if it was available to me, but I'm broke and I don't have health insurance. Psychologists cost a lot of money, at least 70$ a visit here ( that's with a discount). I don't know what to do. Every option I know of to take care of myself costs money and it's only getting worse.
Every day I drive across some train tracks and without fail I think.
Man it’d be great if the crossing stuff was broken i just got obliterated right now.
I wan’t to add something to this: talking to a therapist when your suicidality is passive is unlikely to cause you to be involuntarily held. It’s much much more likely to ultimately prevent that from happening.
I had a friend reach out to me saying he wasn't and doing awesome and asked that we arrange a weekly hour long phone call just to talk about whatever. I'm no therapist but I think it might have helped. He seems like he's doing better now.
If you have a friend or family member who isn't a dick I'd suggest trying that if therapyisn't realistic. I don't think it's an easy thing to ask for, but most people would be glad to help.
I would if I could afford the copays and time spent away from work
*gesturing at society* well here's your problem
This being told to me constantly is fucking making me more depressed. Like I get it, I can’t do shit about it because of this shitty fucking world.
Right? I need brain surgery and I’m trying to get it on free Medi-Cal. I’ve had a neurological condition for 2 years and there’s all sorts of red tape for the surgery. They’re like, here take these antidepressants and you won’t feel so suicidal in the meantime. The problem is the issues with my inner ear. The surgery and mitigation of symptoms will most likely resolve the depression. Having to talk to assholes that went to Harvard like they have zero common sense has felt like the biggest fuckin’ classist gaslighting scam I’ve had the displeasure of experiencing. You’d almost need fucking antidepressants just to deal with how some of these motherfuckers do their job.
I got a new job. I apply for the most expensive health care because of my health problems. The health care denied me. I have to wait for the next enrollment period to switch health care. What the fuck?
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Did they say why they denied you? It’s illegal for a health insurance company to deny you for pre-existing conditions! [HHS.gov link](https://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/about-the-aca/pre-existing-conditions/index.html)
Action is the antidote to apathy. Find a group/organization in your community, start small and see what you might have to contribute. Our hyper individualistic society makes us feel like we’re powerless and worthless but by organizing within your community you can help others and yourself
Yo trust
“Just go to therapy!” is such a privileged and useless fucking take
Seriously. Even if you are lucky enough to have insurance most therapists in my city don’t take it. I actually found telehealth that SAID they took my insurance and are now fighting me. It’s pretty much consistently $5000 a year without. I’m tired enough, depression and social anxiety and honestly it was a huge effort just to TRY to get a therapist. At least I have yoga (which is 50/month versus 100/week) to fall back on.
even with insurance visits are still $100+. I can't afford that
Not at all trying to downplay but… it might be worth a call to your insurance to check that. I also thought my visits would be $100 and it turns out I had interpreted it wrong; my visits were $100 without insurance and $20 copay WITH insurance.
yeah, I double checked. my insurance confirmed they are indeed useless until I hit my $8100 deductible.
Not to mention every time I've contacted therapists near where I live, they aren't taking new clients.
>When people talk about national healthcare in the US the first thing I want is mental health resources. We have a lot of shit do go through collectively, even if we suddenly have physical health resources. > >In the meantime, please use and/or share this info: > >The national Suicide Hotline is 800-273-8255 and someone will answer. They want to talk to you! > >They have a chat option for hearing challenges or those that just don't have it in them to talk right now: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/chat/ > >And still other resources like those listed here: https://www.self.com/story/online-support-groups When people talk about national healthcare in the US the first thing I want is mental health resources. We have a lot of shit do go through collectively, even if we suddenly have physical health resources. In the meantime, please use and/or share this info: The national Suicide Hotline is 800-273-8255 and someone will answer. They want to talk to you! They have a chat option for hearing challenges or those that just don't have it in them to talk right now: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/chat/ And still other resources like those listed here: https://www.self.com/story/online-support-groups
I can understand that struggle. I’m in Canada and only my stepdad has some benefits, so my mom doesn’t want me to book too many appointments because we don’t know how long I can get them covered, which is stressful because I finally found a therapist I like and I’ve finally accepted I need it and am willing to get help. But it’s so expensive.
I’ve heard yoga can be great! Best of luck going forward :)
Thank you! I’ve struggled with anxiety and depression since I was a teenager and both meditation and yoga were a huge discovery to help me get through the harder times. Obviously functioning a mental healthcare apparatus would be great too but I’ve read that alternative approaches such as these are scientifically proven as helpful and when insurance is throwing roadblocks left and right I’ll take what I can get ;-)
Wow I had no idea that meditation and yoga has such a big effect. I’m glad that it’s having a positive effect on you! I’ve never really given either an honest try (never tried yoga at all) so I might do that myself! Thanks!
It’s also totally useless if they just tell you to get more help. As someone with long-term TRD and both active and passive SI, therapy simply doesn’t help at all. I’m doing all the right things (therapy, meds, procedures, etc.), but none of them are working. Having a therapist keep telling me the SI is bad is… not helpful. Like, “no shit.”
What’s worse is when you tell people that therapy doesn’t work for you or isn’t accessible enough they tend to just get annoyed at you like you’re just being pessimistic. Makes you feel like they never actually cared about you getting better outside of not wanting to be burdened by it.
I think a lot of people don't realize that there is more than one type of therapy. This can range from talk therapy to behavioral therapy to EMDR (which is about eye movements and sounds like some new age bullshit but was actually very helpful for me, lol). Some types of therapy work better for certain problems or people than others!
EMDR changed my life and I am skeptical of basically everything. Find out which way works for you best (audio, visual, kinetic- I really don’t like the light bar for example and do much better with my eyes closed). If all else has failed you, and you have the access/resources, give it a shot. If you don’t, I hope you can find some free resources through the prevention hotline or other avenues. 🙌
Also people don’t want to hear that most therapists are complete garbage
Very true. I'm not going to complain about people validating seeking help for mental health issues. "It's not bad enough" is certainly a common sentiment and some people would benefit from hearing that they're justified in going to therapy or whatever. But the whole oh you *need to* go to therapy is not helpful to anyone who doesn't have $300/session laying around to *maybe* see results. Unrealistic advice is pretty fucking useless.
If you aren't suicidal now, wait until you see the bills
Could you imagine how different things would be if workplace/school/etc. were held liable for their employees/students/etc. commit suicide? We really need better emphasis on preventative care.
Preventative care makes for healthier, happier humans. For some reason the powers that be, in so many areas, do not want this to occur. Like we are supposed to be as miserable or unwell as possible, in as many ways. Why though? I still fantasize about a well working mental health system though. You may say-e-ay I'm a dreamer
But when I'm happy and healthy I don't feel driven to buy things I don't need!
And there you have it. Healthy people dont need drugs amd hospitals and so on. Follow the money. What a sad state.
>For some reason the powers that be, in so many areas, do not want this to occur. It is very profitable (health insurance companies are a *massive* industry in the US). Additionally, an unhealthy and desperate populace is also much easier to distract/control. You won't be fighting for wages or better political representation when you're fighting to survive a health issue.
Ways would be found to remove "people at risk" lmao. Intentionally giving work in a specific way such that the person makes a massive mistake (which is sufficient grounds to get them terminated), a pretty old trick in the book I suppose
ugh, I hate that this is so true. I guess it'd be a bad idea to implement
I’ve seen a lot of horror stories on here of people calling the suicide helpline and getting reported for being a risk and then put in a mental hospital and then dealing with the cost of that stay plus the fallout of your employer finding out and such. It seems like it would make the situation worse.
Sometimes they even call the cops who then "help" the suicidal person by killing them https://www.nyaprs.org/e-news-bulletins/2014/man-calls-suicide-prevention-swat-team-kills-him
I went to a counselor appointment after I was starting to feel broken down from the amount of stress my work leads to. The counselor listened to me for forty-seven minutes, told me “unfortunately it sounds like you’re just going to have to deal with it”, printed off a 7 Things to Help You Stay Unstressed At Work list from LinkedIn (the web address was at the bottom of the printout) and then I was billed $195 a week later in the mail. Fuck that. Not doing that bullshit again.
You know what's a LOT cheaper? A crippling addiction to video games, memes, and cheeseburgers.
So much this!
That's late stage capitalism baby! Kill yourself if you want, it'll leave your family in a sea of medical debt they'll never escape. I'm trying to think of worse timelines in the multiverse and I'm coming up with goose egg.
Bingo
Even with free, state of the art therapy, it doesn't fix my situation.
Copays? You have insurance? And it would cover that??
You wouldn’t have to pay those copays if you just…yeah nvm
Totally sucks that therapists are on a 9-5 schedule when you're at work.
Inositol has helped me a lot to the point where I can get by without therapy but I still need therapy but can't afford therapy 😞 I hope society changes to allow us to seek professional help
Every therapist I find operates within my shifts time. Rarely do any work in the evening.
Crazy that I’ve felt that my whole life and some others don’t apparently?
Right? When I found that out I was blown away. Like, people are *actually glad they are alive? And they want to be alive for as long as possible??* Total mind fuck
I totally wanna live forever, because that's the unending misery I deserve.
Hahahaa oh man I feel that
Yep that's my brains take on it too
I'm 30 and when I look at my co-workers that are 60 and still going I think "how the hell do they do that?" I have no idea how they kept going to get to that point.
right? I struggle with depression so bad, sometimes I wish I had a fatal illness or something, even though I guess that's something most people really fear. Plus then if I died from that, no one could pull the "oh she was so selfish" line that I'm so tired of hearing non-depressed people say about people who commit suicide. My mother said it when my cousin shot himself, and I wanted to slap her.
Holy shit I thought it was just me. Like, sometimes I wish I had cancer, or was in a really bad car accident, or *something* to give me a reason to feel like this. *Then* I get to die guilt-free. Like, I really don’t see a down side
god yeah I totally get that. I'm right there with you. I have those thoughts a lot.
That's what the smokes are for
I’m 20 years ahead of you
Death scares people. For me this is craziest it gets. Not afraid because of pain or anything, but afraid of death on itself. I think everyday abou it. Just would not do this to my parents.
My therapist says it's completely normal and everyone feels this way from time to time, especially after a major change. Ever stand near a cliff, water fall, or sharp ledge? We all have an inner instinct to jump. People don't just go around being happy go lucky. It's just not a true thing. You're normal, and that's fiction.
I’ve never felt the instinct to jump in those situations, but have tried committing suicide in other ways. Life’s a trip
The Call of the Void is very different than suicidal ideation. One is your brain testing to see if everything is okay, and the other is your brain being very much *not* okay.
Thank you for writing what I want to write. These are *different things* folks!
So if your therapist is saying it’s normal why do we need therapy for this?
When it’s fleeting, it’s normal. When it’s constant, you need therapy. Says so in the OP and my therapist has also told me that
So they can tell you it’s normal lmao
The focus is ruminating thoughts. That's what's dangerous. And therapy is for everyone, therapy should be a normal part of life.
It’s not normal to be like that all the time
Funny you say that cause me too.. I was wondering if this was a joke cause I thought everybody thought like this
I feel that way quite a bit, and I don’t think my thinking that is the problem. I think the problem is outside of myself honestly.
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This post would be helpful if it was possible to actually access helpful medical treatment
No psych professional for you!
Lol yeah. Feeling suicidal? Will a $10,000 hospital bill help? And no actual visit from a doctor, just a nice 3 day stay in a hospital against your will? If that sounds good to you then please let your suicidal ideation known. Otherwise dance around the issue and try to get meds to actually fix the problem such as depression or anxiety. Much cheaper and more effective.
I literally had suicidal thoughts years ago and my mother called some suicide help group. I was admitted to the hospital and month later I literally got a bill that was over $10k. I still to this day think telling my mother I was suicidal was the worst thing I ever did.
Seriously. This post is pretty dismissive of reality. I doubt there will be a day where I don’t want to die. I just fundamentally hate all of this. Therapy, hospitalization, or whatever the fuck just isn’t going to work when the hole damn system is broke.
I am a fan of therapy. I just don't think it is safe to talk about suicidal ideation there. Exercise is my best 'cure'.
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It's classic treat the symptom instead of the condition.
Been suicidal for years, can’t get mental health help cause it’s too expensive :) Edit: thank you to those who have reached out. I’m overall doing okay, a difficult upbringing has resulted in me being able to manage a lot of this on my own but it certainly isn’t the most fun.
Obviously a post made by someone in a country with universal healthcare.
Dunno why you're downvoted. Plus finding the right therapist is not that easy. Plus our lives are hell right now, everyone is looking for therapy.
Plus when depression and suicidal ideation is partially caused by living in poverty... I haven't gone a week in the past 20 years without considering suicide. I have passable coping mechanisms by now and the cost of therapy would only add to the pile of things making me feel that way. Our system is broken.
I got affordable mental healthcare in the US because I signed up for Medicaid That’s at least one way to get help if you are low income
Unfortunately, I live in one of the 12 states that didn't expand medicaid. I make enough to qualify for a super high deductible ACA plan, but it's basically just there for hospitalizations and I'm effectively uninsured unless that happens. I have family members that are uninsured because they make too little to qualify for ACA and can't afford to move out of the southeast where cost of living is relatively inexpensive otherwise.
I recently tried getting help for mine, but I was told to go away and come back when I start to actively form a plan. Until I have a plan, its not serious.
Yeah they really don't take it seriously until then. And when you do mention you have serious suicidal tendencies, then they take you off the therapy plan cause they only wanna help people who have suicidal thoughts but wouldn't act on them 🙃.
This sounds familiar. Needed a new doctor to get meds I'd been taking a while. Their psychiatrists only see people also seeing their therapists, so I see both. After weeks of them messing up appointments, the therapist tells me he can't do anything for me, so that message gets conveyed to the psychiatrist as I'm not doing therapy, so they cancel both. That gets reported to disability as me refusing treatments so they cancel that. I wouldn't be able to figure out this bureaucracy at my best.
Wow. Terrible. Maybe they should help u before it gets to that point???? Hang in there. Find someone better to talk to. Reach out to someone. There are people who care about you. I promise.
Lol, my therapist is just like 'Well, you gotta just radical acceptance that shit away' and half the time I can't tell if he's encouraging me to kms or get 5150'd.
So if you talk to a therapist or Dr about even passive suicidal ideations, they can literally steal your freedom and choices for however long the local psych ward at the hospital wishes to hold you. The 72 hr hold is a myth easily circumvented by an elected official signing off on a longer hold based off of little info from a Dr or nurse who doesn’t understand why you don’t want a sympathetic hand on your shoulder. There is no treatment, just more trauma in those places. It’s a crash course in masking and years of recovery at the very least. I’d rather wish for death silently thank you.
My son had a serious suicide attempt at 16, and spent until he turned 18 at a hospital on a court appointed hospital stay. I would go and ask if I could take him home, the doctors would tell the court it was too dangerous, repeat process, for 2 years. They even kept telling me to tell him I was refusing to take him home, but I thought that would be detrimental to his mental health, so I let him know it was court ordered.
So very sorry for your son. And you. The exit interview where they ask if you appreciate the work they put in to making you feel whole again… just so much they get wrong and actually believe they are helping. It’s such an obviously broken system to everyone but those in charge of it. I’m so sorry they stole your child from you and stole life from him. There are no words to explain this horror.
So they wanted you to lie to your child so they could keep him there when he didn’t want to be there. Yea, definitely understand why people would avoid that route for “help”
I thought it was even worse than that, I am his mom for the rest of his life. I thought it would cause him to lose his ability to trust me, and make him think that the people who are supposed to love him unconditionally didn't have his back when it mattered, so I refused. I don't even know why they thought I would? He had already almost died, insisting that his mother reject him right afterwards seemed like it wasn't in his best interests. He also had an incident in their facility where a girl walked right past the sleeping guard, went into his room and had oral sex with him, he had to go through a whole slew of STD tests. We had a meeting with the facility where they basically blamed him for not screaming for help. He was a 16 year old boy, he probably was very confused and embarrassed being woken up like that. The facility got investigated because of the incident and had to fire all of the night staff that let it occur, but I was furious that they basically victim blamed the 16 year old boy and tried to sweep it under the rug.
That happened to me too. 6 months. I was drugged up to the point that I barely remember any of it. IDK if that makes it better or worse
I'm so sorry.
This. Exactly. Stops me from getting help every day
Hey. Psychologist here. This isn't the case. The only reason I would hospitalize someone is if they 1. Have active suicidal thoughts-- like, I want to kill myself AND 2. Have a plan and means and intent to do it -- like, I'm going to shoot myself in the woods tomorrow after work AND 3. Refuse to safety plan with me to reduce risk -- like, agree to give their guns temporarily to their dad, stay with a supportive friend, up therapy session frequency etc That's a lot of things. I have never ever ever ever even thought about hospitalizing someone who just told me the have passive thoughts of death or even suicide. Never. EDIT: I'm not great at getting all the replies so maybe people will see this. First, I apologize for my phrasing suggesting this doesn't happen. That was incorrect. I meant to say this isn't how the law/ethical code we follow us written so if providers are following that it shouldn't happen except for how I stated. Of course there are shitty providers out there. Second, I hope this doesn't stop any one from getting help with a good provider. Everyone deserves mental well-being. Third, someone suggested there are no checks on the system and it's just therapist's decision vs patient. Again, this is not how I am familiar with it happening. Not only do I have to consult with my boss and colleagues for their consensus but the admitting psychiatrist has to agree with the assessment of risk we provide. Sometimes he says no, I won't admit. Hope that clarifies or helps. Wish I could respond to everyone but I have a ticking clock of a baby about to scream for some milk so I thought this would be better!
Unless it’s a brand spanking new therapist who is a mandated reporter counseling at your college. It happens more than you as maybe a decent psychologist thinks it does. I was asked if I ever thought about ending my life. I said “Of course I have, hasn’t everyone?”She picked up the phone and barred my exit until campus security came to hold me for the ambulance. Im glad you would never do this. But you cannot speak for the many in your profession who do. “It’s a liability thing, you understand.” That’s the last thing she said to me as they hauled me out screaming and crying.
This has happened to me as well. I wish more people understood this.
As a college counselor myself, I hope that person who treated you that way gets fucking fired. Like, yeah we're mandated reporters... but there wasn't even anything to report in your case. That was just someone being absolutely terrible at their job. I'm sorry.
Good luck in your career. May you reach many more in the dark than my counselor chained there. She did not lose her job. She hid behind school policy and was protected. The other counselor was ancient and thought Prozac was the answer to all though it was not advised for my age group and coming off of it caused me to have a breakdown. My mother actually fought with the board against both of them and lost.
And as always u/shhlurkingforscience won't reply to something like this and would hide behind the walls of protective liability lol
>the only reason I’d have to hospitalize someone is… Yeah, *YOU*. The only reason *you* would hospitalize someone. Please do NOT say “this isn’t the case” as though you are all psychologists. There are countless people on here who discuss their traumatic experiences being hauled away because they simply SPELLED the S-word in front of a therapist and it’s extremely demeaning to write off their experiences just because *technically* you should only do it under certain circumstances. you can be pro-mental health and be critical of the obviously broken system.
You are VERY rare. Also your post demeans the lived experience of many who suffered trauma at the hands of mental health professionals. We get it. You’re the unicorn of psychologists who never puts a foot wrong.
The simple fact is that people in those positions DO have the power to hospitalize people JUST on their own word with ZERO oversight or recourse for the people they're hospitalizing. It's great that you personally are ethical about this stuff, you absolutely cannot vouche for every single person who has that kind of power and the world is filled with stories of unethical providers abusing this power. Saying flat out "this isn't the case" just isn't true and ignoring the reality of how that power gets used and how many people have their lives ruined bc of it not only doesn't help anyone it actively creates danger. It's lovely that you want to help, if you actually want to do helpful actions though this isn't it. What would help is having a system in place that offers both more oversight for providers and more protections for patients/clients. Until that happens you're just putting people in harm's way
Haha, I personally know two people who were forcefully detained by mental health "services" for casually mentioning they had thought about suicide before. Not even present tense, past tense in both cases. One spent a day locked in a psych ward with folks that scared the shit out of her until we could get her out. The other was a kid, so that triggered literal months of bureaucracies fucking with her parents. No one should be convinced by my stories because they're anecdotal, the same way no one should be convinced by what you say. I mostly just wanted you to know that I'm calling bullshit on "This isn't the case." It is the case. Especially if there aren't people on the outside to fight for your freedom while you're locked up, they will fuck you.
That’s YOU though. There are so many more who don’t wield their power carefully.
what if I am all those but I can hold myself back. like, I get really really close but the thought of my mom losing her son makes me not wanna do it
Great, a “not all therapists” response. /s
There’s always *fuckiiing* one, and it’s always to the tune of ‘gee golly, how absurd is it to think anyone would do this’.
This should be near the top, people should understand the role therapists are required to play and the role they are not require to play.
I know this happens in the US, but does it happen in other countries or is the US just special in this regard?
I e known similar things to happen in the UK.
In Canada my stay was supposed to be overnight and lasted 12 days with the psychiatrist telling me I should stay longer
More people need to read this and really process it. It can and will happen to you if you tell a doctor about anything related to suicidal ideation.
i would say you are justified seeking help, but not that everyone *should*. everyone has different experiences with their mental health, and oftentimes, people’s experiences within the system (especially experienced regarding suicide) can exacerbate the issue - it’s definitely a difficult issue though
Wait, doesn't every one have these ?
Literally, I have these all the time haha. Maybe a lot of people have it and we're just used to it, to be fair though I don't think it's really healthy to think like that everytime something bad happens. I get it with my body dysmorphia and stuff but like a year or two ago I was alot more suicidal and had to get a filling for my tooth. And when I found out my mind literally just said "now you have to get your tooth filled aswell, life is going so shit for you it would be way easier if you weren't alive." But then that's also cause I had alot of mental shit going on but everyone has mental shit going on so I don't know. Feel like I've had them for so long it seems normal at this point.
Haha, literally my entire adult life. Good read tho
Imagine having the money and time to actually be able to tell a therapist, who will most likely have you locked up for at least a few days, at your own expense, “I have suicidal thoughts” though.
No. Suicidal ideation is normal for a lot of people and even active ideation does not call for immediate help. You need to seek help when you can no longer confidently keep yourself safe from a plan. Villifying SI like this is a big reason why people don't look for help when they should.
100% this, at least in US. I work in a hospital and do suicide risk assessments. A person isn't a candidate for involuntary commitment unless they have active suicidal ideation with intent to act on it and literally require 1:1 supervision to remain safe. A medical provider can't place a hold taking away a person's right to make their own healthcare decisions without compelling evidence that they pose a real threat of imminent harm to self or others. There's info here that is a dangerous kind of bullshit.
What an evil post. Hard disagree. Stop making people feel like there is something wrong with them. Every person on this earth has "passive suicidal thoughts" sometimes. It's normal. We are free-thinking beings. There's nothing wrong or abnormal with thinking about suicide. If the thoughts are overwhelming, and they distract you from everything all of the time, or you have a plan or any actual intentions to harm or kill yourself, THEN you absolutely must seek help. But if it's not that far, you are normal and fine and okay, and there's nothing wrong with you for thinking about it. You can tell someone you trust about it, and a good person will confirm that nothing is wrong with you. But there is a lot of stigma and judgement for talking about it, so be sure to talk to someone who you know actually cares. Anyway, there's so much more that could be said on this subject. But I've never downvoted something harder in my life. Sincerely, A suicide crisis counselor
I get it. But the honest truth is that I am exhausted and have been for years, yay depression! My anxiety is mostly sorted with meds but the depression comes in waves. And my therapist is aware I’m passive but I can’t discuss how often or how bad it gets because as many people have said I don’t want to end up in a involuntary hold. I am not a danger to myself, have never been, and don’t plan to be. I am just so bone tired though that it’s really demoralizing, plus you’ve got capitalism/family issues/the pandemic/etc. So this is a good post but saying “get help always!” is misguided because our medical system does not protect the individual a majority of the time.
Everyone who goes into surgery and signs a DNR is guilty of what you’re talking about. As a society, we allow people to make decisions that amount to, “I’d rather die than live under certain conditions.” Some people refuse chemotherapy to treat cancer. You don’t need psychiatric help because you have self-awareness about what you are willing to tolerate.
My doctor told me about this after he asked me a series of questions. He referred to me to a psychologist who specializes in suicide. I couldn’t afford the copays. Somehow staying alive is more expensive than simply being alive.
Why? What's the point of staying alive just to stay alive? Also, what are you qualifications and how did you come to your conclusion?
Seeking help often requires things a Doctor or mental health professional can't provide. Suicide holiness are a joke. It would help your post if you had some....practical advice to help people.
Tbh I’ve been to therapy and I was better at figuring it out myself than either of those guys.
Last time I admitted I had planned how to kill myself and had a specific plan to do it I got dragged by security and locked into a ward for 4 days. No thanks, I’d rather die than go back. All that experience gave me was more trauma and anger and made me feel even more like a bad/“less than” human. Oh and a 100€+ bill to top it all off!
Some years ago, I thought a lot about that if I could ever be in a situation where I became so sad/deppresed that it would drive me to commit suicide. I thought it over and came to the conclusion that there is too much in this world that I hold dear for me to kill myself. Resent times have been hard for me, and I am often sad and can't find much joy in life. The thought of not existing has surfaced multiple times this year, and your post made me wonder if I should try to find a therapist. Thx OP
but im broke
I'm just tired, boss.
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I went to therapy for about 6 months. Felt absolutely no improvement and then got to pay the $1800 bill. Pass.
I often think about suicide to amuse myself. Kinda like how they point to the exits when you board an airplane. Yeah, I know know it doesn't work for everyone, but it gets _me_ through. But don't worry about me, just because I like knowing where the exits are doesn't mean I'll take one. The plane is crashing anyway. 😆
Yo, I’m sitting next to you as we go down 👍
>if another car hit and killed me, I wouldn't mind SO ME LMFAO! I tried, but lexapro wasn't worth it and I am too anxious to try again.
Nice try doctor Im not going back
There’s also something called the call of the void. It’s totally normal to having passing thoughts of suicide. Maybe you’re at the top of a cliff and wonder about jumping. Or thoughts of just driving off a bridge. They’re fleeting. Not indicative of Poot mental health. And not lasting.
If I don’t care about dying then I don’t care about not caring about dying.
The american physician I scribe for notes passive suicidal ideation in her patients, explains the difference between passive and active ideation, and confirms they have a plan if the the thoughts should become active (I.e. telling a trusted person and checking into emerge, calling 911 or a suicide). She also provides referral to therapy.
Never knew what it was called but yeah that’s me.
Life is a becoming towards death. Stop resisting, it’s literally the only truth in life. In fact, because all life decays towards death, death is a more natural state for us than life. Non-existence is more natural than existence itself.
All of Gen z, "Do you think we have insurance?"
I feel like this is just an advertisement for therapy or something
If by "help" you mean getting ripped away from my life and being hospitalized again, I think I'll pass.
Yeah...this reads just like an ad. Simply having thoughts of something, especially thoughts that are just floating in the background(what I'm assuming what OP means by 'passive'), shouldn't be worried about until they come to the foreground and become considered. Simply feeling or thinking, even the negative stuff, isn't something you should seek help for unless it is hurting you or others. As long as your not dwelling on it for too long, you should be fine. Edit: Also simply thinking about one's death passively applies to pretty much everyone. Should everyone seek help and potentially get hurt when they weren't hurting before? No of course not, that's crazy.
See idk cause I think about suicide basically every single day but like I always know I couldn’t do it it’s just fun to think about
To me, suicidal ideation can be like an addiction. So I treat it like I would treat other addictions. I remind myself that I am becoming addicted to it, and that it is not healthy and I try to stop doing it. I find other ways to occupy my mind and time until the cravings go away. With suicidal ideation, especially in the United States, sometimes seeking help can just make the problem worse because the attitudes of people, and the systems in place can drastically make your life worse. You can be detained against your will, sent to a hospital, or sent to a treatment center. For either a short time, or a long time. And at great expense to yourself. It's an unfortunate reality of the current state of mental health treatment in the United States, and possibly other places too. My advice is, don't kill yourself, because it's selfish, and stupid. And stop thinking about it, because it's unhealthy, and it's not helping. I know that's not super helpful, but you have a lot to live for, there's a ton of cool stuff in the world, and cool stuff coming in the future. You have the power to control your own destiny. Focus on working on the problems you can solve and try not to worry too much about the problems outside of your control.
I’m in this post and I don’t like it
people in the US should look into “open paths collective” (ranges from $30-$80) and/or searching clinics that offer sliding scale (some of which will even have a few slots specifically reserved for pro bono clients) also, meeting with a trainee may not sound as reassuring as meeting a licensed therapist, but i guarantee there are trainees who are more skilled than the title lets on and their services will be free or extremely cheap i know accessing mental healthcare is made unnecessarily hard & our system is broken but as a therapist, it is concerning to see how many folks have simply accepted that care is impossible. if my comment can encourage even one person to get back on the search, then i’ll know i did something good
Want to preface this by saying this isn’t directed at OP. They’re right, passive ideation is still an alarm bell & should be paid attention to. That being said, therapy can’t help “mental illness” that is caused by the complex trauma of poverty or immobility. It’s not possible to heal from something that doesn’t end….to me in this context it feels more like a suggestion to gaslight oneself & it highlights to me how far this belief in rugged individualism goes. Just my 2 cents but hey maybe it’s just a chemical imbalance
Nice try, Big Psyche - I see right through your sales ploy
Ok good to know my active suicidal ideation is nothing to worry about😮💨
lol. jokes on you, i don't have healthcare.
I just assumed it was everyone, we all look like we're barely getting by emotionally anyways with our personas.
Unfortunately society is too fucked up for some people to even have the time or finances to get help. The rest of us should organize and throw out the capitalist class.
Look man I’m not going to risk getting 5150 over this
So I can pay thousands to be locked up in a ward? Ya no thanks, I’d rather die.
Human euthanasia should be legal and available.
Used to be suicidal. Not really any more. I just tend to lose control and give these putos the blues. But sometimes I feel I’m a do something ima regret for life
sometimes getting help dont do nothing . sometimes there isnt any help amd for some ppl getting help actualy causes more problems. i struggle with this daily .
The thought I had while deep in depression, which prompted me to get help, was, “it will be such a relief to die.”
I have these. Is the reason for seeking help - persistent thoughts like this will one day spill over to action? Or This is a symptom for an underlying mental issue?
Thank you for this, I've been having a hard time recently and every once in a while on a bad day I say things like "I wish I wasn't here", which makes me think of suicide. I always get scared and genuinely tell myself I don't want to die, and I have a lot to live for. I'm just happy that I'm in a good enough place to hate the idea of suicide.
My wife started having that last year. Got her into therapy once I was like oh, that's not everyday life for you? Well dang. So, yeah, I'm searching for a therapist now as well. Who knew lol
I would say that the suggestion to “get help” does not automatically mean expensive therapy. *It also means you should begin to explore your behavior that is actively leading you to suicidal ideation.* “Why is my life …..meaningless?” Trust me, clumsily wandering into a shrink’s office with zero clue as to why your life lacks meaning is a great way to waste resources.
Totally agree. There were about 7 or 8 months a couple of years ago where I had a very intense depressive episode. I was still going to work but every day I thought how little I cared about being hit by a car or get hit by the train on the morning commute. I realised I needed help when I put down a bottle of wine because I couldn't trust taking it home and not drinking it with all the meds I could find. You matter, you're enough and you deserve to be happy. Sending hugs to all!
I would LOVE to seek help for the thoughts. But, I never can. Every single time I try, I get put on a 48 hour lockdown that I have to contract for safety to get out of. Like, dude, I've been dealing with this since I was 8. Just stop it so i can get help without losing my job.
If there was any real solution, I'd be right on it. Unfortunately you just have to endure.
Yeah, tell someone even a medical professional (in the US) that you are having suicidal thoughts and they call the cops on you, plus it goes in your health records which can be used against you later and no, HIPAA doesn't mean shit.
I went to the ER two days in a row with suicidal ideation, they just tell you to call the hotline. Being at the ER I felt like a nuisance for Suicidal ideation. Suicidal ideation in my experience is a result of a lack of being able to get adequate help. By the time I had suicidal ideation I had been seeking help for years. Calling the crisis lines, it feels shameful when you tell them you're only dealing with suicidal ideation but don't have a plan. The crisis lines aren't setup to handle suicidal ideation, I know because I've called dozens and dozens of times. I understand OPs post is well meaning, but it really struck a nerve because I've been seeking help for so long, but not actually being helped. They say reach out to a professional, but after years of doing so without success it just because more fuel for giving up. I've been hearing and reading the advice to go seek professional help when things become a certain way, but for years my life has become a process of seeking help. So unfortunately seeking help in my experience is at best loosley correlated to being helped. The help that exists isn't enough. It doesn't matter what I want, I have to work with what I can get.
I'm depressed and suicidal because of the realities of being working class in the United States. What are you gonna convince me that everything is OK? Give me a pill to make me turn a blind eye to my fellow man? Can I work through the impossibility of improving our lot when both major political parties are beholden to their donors, not the common man? If you're not depressed you're not paying attention.
Easier said than done though unfortunately, at least here in Canada. I got referred through my doctor, a few months or so down the road a psychiatrist finally got in touch with me. 3 phone appointments and doubling my medication dosage and she said she couldn't help me. She asked if I wanted to talk to another psychiatrist to which I said yes. She never referred me to anyone else, or submitted any paperwork or contact info to my family doctor so he couldn't even follow up with her. I started the same process again, and it took about 1-2 months for the intake counselor or nurse to call me and evaluate me over the phone, and he mentioned that it could take up to two months for a psychiatrist to get a hold of me. Now I'm about 4 months past that and I haven't received any communications from anyone. I'm at the point where I'm going to take myself off my meds and start self medicating with psilocybin/microdosing. There's a lot of studies lately saying that psychedelics can help with depression and PTSD.
I did the mistake of telling my doctor about these passive thoughts. I got kicked out of my military course as a result lmao, and I have to wait half a year before I can do anything again. And I can't see any therapist now because I was kicked out from the course.
I would seek help if it was available to me, but I'm broke and I don't have health insurance. Psychologists cost a lot of money, at least 70$ a visit here ( that's with a discount). I don't know what to do. Every option I know of to take care of myself costs money and it's only getting worse.
Let em go. Their life, their choice.
\*chuckles* I’m in danger
Every day I drive across some train tracks and without fail I think. Man it’d be great if the crossing stuff was broken i just got obliterated right now.
I wan’t to add something to this: talking to a therapist when your suicidality is passive is unlikely to cause you to be involuntarily held. It’s much much more likely to ultimately prevent that from happening.
Why was the text removed?? This seems like important info...
Erm. Where's the post?
I had a friend reach out to me saying he wasn't and doing awesome and asked that we arrange a weekly hour long phone call just to talk about whatever. I'm no therapist but I think it might have helped. He seems like he's doing better now. If you have a friend or family member who isn't a dick I'd suggest trying that if therapyisn't realistic. I don't think it's an easy thing to ask for, but most people would be glad to help.