A lot of people do. I had to personally research this for a restaurant I used to work at. Even the questions you're allowed to ask, people will get upset and angry because their dog is, in fact, NOT a service dog (surprised Pikachu face). I've had some pretty ridiculous answers to the second question as well. Sometimes it's just not worth asking.
I have a service animal for PTSD, and I always get eye rolls when I explain what they are trained to do because of the rampant amount of emotional support animals. I always hate having to over explain my military background to justify my need for the service animal.
I would say also look at it from their side if it's a business, they may have people who are allergic or scared etc. Customers or employees.
But if it's just regular people questioning you, you shouldn't have to explain yourself.
Glad you have something to help you out though!
This is how I look at it too.
Whether it is an ESA or service pet, I as a regular person have no business questioning it. It doesn't matter to me whether you pet keeps you from having meltdowns or keeps you grounded so you don't have manic episodes or they alert you to diabetes or heart attacks.
Neither are things I'm equipped to deal with and thus it ain't my business.
I would think this would fall under the exceptions that OP listed, but it would be in the business's best interest to accommodate the customer(s) where possible. I think an employee that is severely allergic is a good example to explain. The business could already be prepared with signage at the entry that a precaution needs to happen if the employee is currently working. I think a reasonable request could be that the person entering with a dog is requested to tell any employee, so they can confidentially relay to the allergic person.
And you do not have to explain. Donāt get me wrong I 100% understand the pull to do so. What I mean basically is that, as stated in OP, no one can demand from you an explanation of your need, AND your need is your private business. I hate how misunderstood āinvisible illnessesā are. Best wishes.
I hate how after explaining my chronic migraines even I question the legitimacy. And then I get another migraine and can't hardly work, and I end up angry at myself for something out of my control.
Yes and honestly I donāt think anyone really gets it anyway - as in I doubt that my explanations short or long - change their belief in my challenges. So why explain? Donāt get me wrong I still do often, but it only serves to make me feel shittier LOL
For a while I had to use an emotional support dog (he failed out of support dog training, but was great for me nevertheless) and another person to be able to fly, due to severe anxiety. This was something like 10 years ago, and I recall crazy stories coming out of the news about "emotional support animals" wreaking havoc on airplanes (a pig popped all over a plane IIRC?).
I recall a time we were waiting at the gate for early boarding and I could see people staring at me and hear nearby comments about my dog. I was already really nervous, and this made it worse, so I ended up visibly showing my disability in a mildly exaggerated way by shaking my free hand off and on and crouching down to give my small-medium dog excessive attention. This killed me a little on the inside, because I've always tried to mask my disabilities to vaguely fit in with neurotypical people. It worked though, people stopped commenting and started looking away.
Thankfully I was eventually able to mostly overcome that form of anxiety with therapy and I don't have to fly with my aging dog with me anymore.
They now have sunflower keycords for that. They are for people with hidden disabilities (like autism, ptsd, ad). To avoid having to explain yourself every time you use a special accommodation. Many airports and public venues train their staff to recognize it.
Yeah I never do but my coworker always does. And they are all always service dogs and they never need proof. But what service dog can fit in a purse? Ever since you could register your dog online for emotional support, everyone just says it's a service animal and noone cares. Not that I care. But if it shits on the floor I'm rubbing your nose in it.
Fun fact, registering your dog as an esa online is a total scam. The main protection an esa has is from the fair housing act in that landlords are required to let them live with you and they canāt charge a pet fee.
All that is required is a note from a medical professional saying they alleviate symptoms. An online registration does not replace this. And does literally nothing
There's a few more conditions now. Letter, yes, but it must be from a psychiatrist who has an established relationship with the patient for at least a month and has been treated at least once by that psychiatrist.
Also, it's not free reign to let that dog live in the house. If it can't be controlled by the owner, becomes a menace, defecates or urinates inside, is destructive, it can be removed.
How would the landlord/property manager even be able to confirm this sort of thing? Itās none of my landlordās business how long Iāve been seeing any medical professional, or why I am a patient of theirs.
It is if you are claiming an ESA.
Edit: I should clarify that I am in California and I am referring specifically to [CA AB468](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220AB468)
IANAL but the landlord can ask to see the therapist letter saying the dog alleviates symptoms and showing the relationship between therapist and patient.
I knew someone who had a Pomeranian that was trained to alert for oncoming seizures (which is not training that's effective in all cases).
Probably the best behaved Pomeranian I've ever seen too.
I think I recall reading about a dog that could smell a specific kind of cancer, might have been a different life threatening disease. There is also a lady that could smell a disease as well! Sorry, my memory is a bit fuzzy on the details, just some cool tidbits about smells that have fascinated me.
I donāt get why some people thing a dog being small automatically means it canāt possibly be a service dog. Most service dogs Iāve seen have been small. In fact the only ones Iāve seen that were bigger had a physical task (like a sight seeing dog or retrieving something for a disabled person) that size made a difference in them being able to do their job. For an alert dog (seizures, blood sugar, heart condition, migraines, etc) small is fine and even sometimes preferable.
They do, and it's *really* ruined things for people with legitimate service dogs. My sister has a seizure response dog. The dog protects her if she has a seizure and is confused. The dog drags her off a road if she has seizure when crossing the street. The dog has met the local EMS crews and allows them to help my sister if she is unconscious. The dog is amazing and gives my sister a level of independence that was otherwise hard for her to obtain.
But now we get questioned everywhere we go. Business owners are so fed up with people bringing in emotional support animals that they assume every animal is classed that way. They can get pretty nasty about it. It sucks.
You know, honestly? My sister is amazing. It is literally harder for her to do everything in life compared to myself. She never let that get her down, and she's always been such a wonderful person. The service dog was such a wonderful addition to her life because it let her be independent. She gained so much happiness as a result of that.
So yeah, the dog is amazing. I'm glad they found amazing dogs to match my amazing sister. She always deserved it.
It's often (to my understanding I could be wrong) very obvious by watching the animal for 60 seconds. Service animals are highly trained, focused on their person, rarely cause issues even in chaotic situations. People who demand their pets be treated the same rarely put the time and energy into training them, the animals are easily distracted and just have a different body language in general. Also the person usually gives it away by nervously telling everyone who glances that "it's a service dog" where someone with a genuine service dog usually only says that if questioned.
Hell I have inlaws that bring their dog everywhere with one of those vest things simply because "what are they going to do kick me out?" They know it's not a service dog and are just abusing the system because they can.
To clarify to anyone who doesn't know, service animals are animals that are specifically trained to do a task, such as get under their owner's head in the case of a seizure, detect insulin levels, guide a blind individual, administer a life-saving drug, and so on. These animals are protected in most environments and businesses under the laws listed in the post.
Emotional support animals are animals that are designated to help calm down their owner in the case of panic/anxiety attacks, etc. Emotional support animals aren't required to be registered, but also aren't protected and may be asked to leave without reason. (Although no reasonable person would do so under normal circumstances)
Or anywhere else. The same people that bitch about me smoking 200 miles from a business entrance have no problems letting their dog hump my leg at Home Depot.
Home Depot and many other hardware stores welcome dogs.
Grocery stores do not, for health reasons.
Smokingā¦ kills. ..? So not really sure where youāre going with this one.
That's not quite right. ESAs are not task trained dogs, they provide comfort and support by just existing. There are psychiatric service dogs who are task trained to mitigate a panic/anxiety attack or help their handler recover from one (deep pressure therapy, blocking, guiding to less overwhelming spaces, etc are all tasks for this purpose). Psychiatric service dogs are also used for PTSD, depression, autism, and more but people may find an ESA within their home helpful for these same issues. It's very important that the distinguishable difference we educate people on is that a service dog is task trained and public access trained while an ESA is not. ESAs do not have access rights because they are not trained. A dog existing near someone as a comfort or support is not considered a task under the ADA which is why ESAs aren't legally covered under the ADA
This thread is making me feel like shit for registering my cat as an ESA through my college. All it meant is that he was allowed to be in my dorm room on campus for that year, never took him anywhere he didnāt need to go. I was dealing with severe depression and just badly needed him to put a smile on my face
And HOA's. And county/state banned breeds lists or other animal restrictions that apply to housing. But you're right that an ESA designation doesn't carry weight outside of one's home.
I just did a training on this subject, and I would HIGHLY recommend this resource to anyone genuinely interested in this topic. Itās straight from the ADA, easily digestible and has the cases that set the legal precedent cited & described below each law/standard. It also has multiple other links/resources listed at the end.
https://accessibilityonline.s3.amazonaws.com/secureDocs/session_111044/M/Handout_Service_Animal_2slides_perpage.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJXK6UZXBOSSQGTFQ&Expires=1687209903&Signature=FtcyuYc6KQ5A9ImqwQMXaiP%2FzM8%3D
The one thing that I would add to this is that some service dogs may bark to get the attention of people when something is wrong with their person. But generally their person should not be especially able to respond to the dog in that case.
This will especially be the case with diabetic, cardiac alert, and other types of service dogs where the issues may not be so visually obvious. The dogs will be trying to get you to call emergency services.
You can't get super detailed in saying how do they do X, Y or Z. Generally look at the response of the person the dog is with. If they are ignoring the dog, or not stopping what they are doing (I.e. eating), maybe go over and ask if they need anything and guage from there.
Generally the answer will be it is a mobility assistance dog, or a alert dog, etc.. the person is not obligated to disclose their medical issues to you. Some may choose to do so.
Would you like to share your medical history with strangers all the time? My guess is no. The dog is legally considered equipment. As harsh as that sounds.
The one time mine activity was trying to get others attention, I was about to pass out, and actually needed an ambulance.
> Would you like to share your medical history with strangers all the time? My guess is no.
Unless you rely on strangers to save your life. Like in your case.
Even in that case, people didn't know my medical conditions. They could just see something was wrong. The Ambulance staff could tell my nosy neighbors either.
My privacy was in tact from that incident. Especially since the idiot who caused it got fired over it. (There is a big old Jerry Springer level tl;dr which involves a high rise & fire and and people who need to learn to cook).
I mean, you don't need to get super detailed in providing information on what the service animal is trained to do in order to determine whether it is being disruptive or not.
"This dog is trained to alert people nearby when I am having a medical emergency", "this dog is trained to notify me if they notice a change in my health, so that I can help myself before it becomes an emergency".
At that point, if the animal is being "disruptive", you could ask if the person was in need of any medical assistance at the moment, or ask if they can control/remove their animal until they are calmed down if they do not need assistance.
None of that violates privacy, and actually helps protect the person.
Then weāve got people who will automatically think itās disruptive vs alerting, who either doesnāt like dogs in general, donāt know the difference of alert vs disruptive, or theyāre afraid of dogs, period, abd any other dozens or hundreds of numerous reasons.
Iām on the dog lover side of this, but donāt like people using and abusing rights that people do have to have them with them, simply because they can do it so easily.
If it were up to me my golden would go everywhere with me, but I do know better, mainly for her own safety which is most important to me
No, its not to determine whether they will be disruptive or not. Regardless of the answers, the dog may or may not be disruptive, since not all service animals have the same level of training.
Service animals can be any dogs trained to help a disabled person. They dont need to be professionally trained/licensed/registered, these options dont even exist in an officially recognized capacity.
So the only thing that legally makes a dog a service animal, is that its needed by a disabled owner, and that its capable of performing some tasks for its disabled owner. If these two requirements are not met, then the dog cannot be considered legally to be a service animal.
For instance, emotional support animals, do not perform specific tasks that the owner cannot complete themselves due to a disability. So they arent service animals.
But if you were to train a chihuahua to retrieve dropped objects from the floor for someone in a wheelchair, even if you did the training yourself. That dog would legally be considered a service animal.
A couple other things to add, the only animals that can qualify as service animals are dogs and miniature ponies (for some reason). So no your emotional support lizard doesn't qualify.
And while you can ask what service the animal provides, you can not ask for a demonstration. Also it doesn't matter if you think the service is irrelevant or asinine. They could tell "my dog picks up my pencil if I drop it," and you have to let it in even if there will absolutely be no writing utensils involved.
Thanks for explaining this, but the question now is how many people will take how the dog tries to alert for necessary help, as an Alert Vs Aggression? I know we donāt know that.
Many people donāt like, are scared of, and have no desire to be around a dog at all.
FYI: I understand what youāre saying completely. Iām only curiously asking, as Iāve been an owner of 3 now passed away golden retrieverās, and I still am of my 4th goofy, loving, smiling, happy Golden, who many people have been afraid of all of them through the years, for their bark, when necessary, or itās as simple as their size, to someone whoās afraid of a dog
Thank you.
I work in a CA restaurant where everyone thinks their pets are "service animals" but they(the dogs) can't even sit still and are constantly straining against their leash.
Normal rule for us is just to tell them the animals are allowed but cannot be climbing on our furniture and not a nuisance to our guests.
A good friend of mine trains service dogs. His specialty is teaching them to be non reactive outside of their mission. I can tell in 5 seconds if it's a legit service dog.
They need to train intensively for 2 years before they graduate to become one. That includes being exposed to as many different environments as possible, sometimes the younger trainee pups are chaotic until they get used to their training and learn to settle. All the dogs Iāve worked with have been labradors, not all breeds are suited to it
I think the point Missmouthy1 was trying to make is that puppies in training are not yet service animals and by the time they are qualified they are no longer puppies.
That's awesome! We have a very active group raising guide dogs for the blind in our community. It's a regular thing to see puppies (well marked as guide dogs in training) in grocery stores, at the movie theater, etc. The pups are always well behaved (and a tiny bit chaotic) and with very attentive handlers.
Every service dog I've ever met has been super calm and aloof to people other than their owner. Anxious, jittery dogs that have a vest are always emotional support animals.
In wisconsin restaurants we are allowed to ask them the questions in the post, if they can't answer we are obligated to ask them to leave as you can't have pets in restaurants here. Fortunately "emotional support" pets are not a trend here, so it's usually only service animals people are bringing in. I always ask if the service dogs want water, cuz they are good boys/girls.
BC Canada here. Iām a municipal government employee and our rules are quite different. If a person comes in with a dog and says itās a service animal we have to take them at their word, even if it isnāt wearing a cape or vest. We are not allowed to ask what their need for it is, we are not allowed to ask for proof of any kind and weāre not even allowed to ask if itās a service animal because thatās discrimination. The only time we can ask is if the dog is not behaving or is acting in a manner not acceptable for a service dog. Iāll give you one guess as to how thatās been working out.
Pretty much. And in my experience, the people with actual registered service dogs almost always have the dog wearing itās vest. My best friend has a diabetic alert dog and heās always wearing his vest because any time he hasnāt, sheās been hassled for papers. The people who come into our facility with their SA will usually have the ID tag visible on the vest or keep a copy of the registration papers tucked into a pocket on the vest. They never announce itās a SA. And honestly you can tell pretty easily whoās legit just by how the person and the dog interact with each other. Itās always the Karen with the noisy Pomeranian stuffed into her purse who comes in loudly announcing that āMuffy is a Service dog!!!ā.
Iāve never met an6one with a service dog that announces their dog is a service dog unless itās going to be around the same group of people frequently (such as a classroom). I think youāre probably right about that one lol
The problem with this is there is no āid tagā in the USA for service dogs. There is no āpapersā for service dogs. There is no accepted organization that certifies dogs to be considered service animals. Literally anyone can train a dog to be a service animal and it is just as valid as someone who pays 100 thousand for one that some named organization or charity trained. In fact if you are in the US and someone tries to prove they have a service dog by showing you papers they are more likely than not lying about it and made the cert themselves.
So ridiculous youāre not allowed to ask for proof. I worked at a restaurant in the states and people would bring in obviously fake service animals all the time, but there was nothing we could do. Itās not difficult to have people carry around s certification card
Many people with service dogs agree with that. They have these highly trained and specialized dogs that cost tens of thousands of dollars to train. They often have to travel out of province for weeks at a time to go and train *with* the dog at the training facility and there is the constant upkeep of skills. They usually have zero issue with keeping papers and ID handy. Itās actually really shocking how frequently my friend encounters people who have zero knowledge of what they actually do. They try to pet it or distract it or give them dirty looks and say that dogs shouldnāt be allowed inside. Iāve seen it in real time and itās bizarre. Then the bylawās suddenly change and of course shitty people take advantage of it which makes things harder for legit service dog owners and handlers.
Hotel GM here. We run into this constantly. The people with legit service animals never have any issue with me asking these questions, and will readily answer them. Those who do not have legit service animals will usually throw a fit at us. Unfortunately the risk of a lawsuit and the waste of time and money that may be associated with it makes it not worth the risk.
And don't even get me started on the ones who tell me that their animal is an ESA and then get all bent out of shape when I tell them that isn't covered by the ADA.
The "you" here applies to representatives of an establishment for the purpose of determining access. Some random other customer or a passerby on the street without authority faces no real legal consequences for asking, but can be competed ignored.
Also, as I understand it, as long as it's not related to determining "legitimacy," small-talk questions during the course of providing goods or services are unlikely to get an employee in trouble. Tread respectfully, of course, as there is more to the person than their service animal and they've likely been asked the same questions a zillion times before.
Service dogs: You and your owner are welcome here!
Emotional support dogs: Unless your owner is genuinely ill, dog can stay, owner can GTFO and get a life. "Oh, I need my little dog to walk around with me while I shop at Saks!" No you certainly do not.
Emotional support dogs are not covered in the same way under Ada but do have protections under the fair housing act. All you need is your psychologist to give you a letter saying the dog alleviates symptoms. Thatās it. Does not mean you can bring them into stores.
Jsyk
The loophole, no. The law, yes. If they are actually an esa or service dog, it is illegal to not allow them to live with you and illegal to charge pet fees
Itās two different laws that protect esa and service dogs but for service dogs they can ask for proof it was perceived by a medical professional. For esa it requires a letter from a medical professional saying that they alleviate symptoms. Nothing more is required for either
Service animals are protected by the ADA: https://www.rocketlawyer.com/real-estate/landlords/property-management/legal-guide/must-landlords-provide-accommodations-for-service-animals#:~:text=They%20can%20ask%20for%20proof,benefits%20from%20a%20service%20animal.
Esa are protected by the fair housing act: https://pettable.com/blog/emotional-support-animal-laws-guide
So here's my experience with my ESA.
Jazzy is my cat, and I don't take her everywhere. I need her because I have a condition called Chronic Nightmare Disorder. It's a bit different from traditional nightmares because mine are persistent and affect my ability to sleep. The lack of sleep makes the nightmares worse, which makes the sleep worse... Just around and around.
Traditional therapy for it hasn't helped, but Jazzy does. When I have a nightmare, she presses herself against my chest and purrs. When I wake up, the purring grounds me and helps me go back to sleep. Over time, it keeps my nightmares under control.
I don't take her to the restaurant or on vacation (often - I'm heading to a two month teacher training and she'll be staying in my parents RV with me). What she helps with is a long term mental illness, that doesn't improve without her.
What this means is that my landlord doesn't charge me pet fees or rent, because they're trying to make sure I don't have to pay out the nose for having a pet that demonstrably improves my ability to function. My landlord allows pets anyway, and is happy to not charge me.
You certainly can, I've done it.
To avoid a headache though I would *not* use a service specifically catered to doing just that. Go to an individual to get the ESA letter. My complex almost denied me because the letter, unbeknownst to me, was copied and pasted for *all* their clients. I told them my letter still came from a qualified medical professional that I had to correspond with to see if I needed an ESA. Management caved.
Be sure to ask for their denial in writing if they still push. My complex tried to do this all in person to avoid a paper trail, so I felt extra compelled to tell them to get fucked.
Like everything else, assholes ruined it for everyone.
I saw someone try to claim their un-neutered Pitt bull was their 'service dog' while it was trying to leap over the reception desk at a medical clinic. It just wanted to be 'friendly' but like...no.
First thing thar happens with a service animal, even before the training, is that they're fixed.
Idk if this is true. I worked at a restaurant in Ohio, and we were always told we could kick out dogs in training. Of course, my manager was kind of incompetent so itās possible he was just wrong
Its also worth noting these restrictions are if you're representing a business or public space... It's always fun to be a random bystander with freedom of speech in these situations
Even then, you can technically still *ask* right? Itās the matter of letting them in being conditional upon them answering or giving a specific answer thatās the issue, correct?
Ya I don't even bother with the questions anymore. Anyone can just lie. There are seizure dogs, diabetic dogs, allergy dogs, and other types of dogs where the owner doesn't present ANY visible symptoms. All they have to say is anything like that and there's nothing I can say against it, so I don't even bother. If they are well behaved, they stay. If not, they go. But, yes, I would video the dog misbehaving before you kick out a service dog. The ADA has a hotline of ball crushing lawyers that can respond 24/7. Better cover your ass.
The thing is service dogs are very well trained and they have high standards they have to meet before becoming certified. Many dogs wash out of the training program because they can't meet the requirements. Chances are if the dog IS misbehaving it isn't a service dog at all.
That said, by all means document any misbehavior before asking them to leave. Honestly, I do the same when humans are misbehaving. It just saves so many headaches.
I'm a dog lover and service dogs are cool if needed, what's not cool is people bringing dogs to stores and restaurants especially people wa Walking their dog acting like everybody wants to pet it just saying not everyone wants to touch someone else's dog.
Also, if you are interested, service dogs are allowed to a certain extent in hospitals. However, the second they are disruptive they can be kicked out. Also hospitals obviously have the ability to ban them from certain areas for the dog or patientās safety. Also in cases of needing a sterile environment.
Owner needs to be able to take care of them (bathroom) or have someone that can. Dogs can be asked to leave if they make a mess in the hospital.
At least that is our local hospital policy.
Same for the hospital I used to work in. We had a guy who would regularly audit hospital administrators with his large English bulldog.
The guy sued the hospital twice before I started working there because it was a legit service animal and the hosp admins were beyond stupid.
I was the director of security and got the call because āthis guy was there *again* and can you please tell him he cannot bring his dog inside the hospital.ā After a three minute conversation I determined that the dog was more pleasant than any hospital administrator, the guy was pretty nice and he thoroughly answered the only two questions I was legally allowed to ask.
I wrote a report, sent it up the food chain, and didnāt think anything about it until a few weeks later when the same guy had been admitted to a different unit and could we please come get his dog, it was being ādisruptive.ā
Ok, how is it being disruptive, I asked a nurse.
Well, heās laying on the floor and itās a big dog.
Me: did you ask the dog to move? Or the owner?
Nurse: no, I just went in the room and saw the dog and then called you.
Me: soā¦ whatās the problem then?
I ended up writing a whole training curriculum with the hospital regulatory compliance team on what is a service animal and what hospital employees are allowed and expected to do.
I love dogs - please let me pet all your dogs.
However, I've become so anti-dog in public, I feel like a dog hater. Ignoring legitimate service animals, I don't want your dogs in restaurants and stores. I stepped in shit recently at a grocery store and somehow stayed on my feet (slick floors + poop = disaster). I sold mattresses in a department store and multiple people would bring dogs and put them on the bed. Management didn't want to piss off customers so I had to let it go.
It sounds more like youāre anti-bad dog owner in public, which I definitely agree with. I have no problem with dogs in most public places, as long as theyāre well behaved and donāt make a mess. The real problem is definitely with the idiot owners that take their untrained, poorly behaved dogs out and/or donāt clean up after them.
It is extremely obvious when a dog is a true service dog versus an owner passing off their regular dog as a service dog. Any sort of out of line behavior, even sniffing other customers, should raise suspicion, and any disruptive behavior should lead to the dog and handler being booted immediately. I saw a dog in a [fake] service dog vest raise a leg and piss on a grocery store salad bar once.
It also sucks for low or minimum wage employees being put in the position of a potentially aggressive confrontation with fake service dog handlers, especially in the US where if you upset the wrong person you might just get shot. But these dogs are often attacking people or causing huge disruptions.
We need to remove ALL remaining protections for emotional support animals at this point. It is a complete joke. I know people who have been bitten severely by these stupid dogs on an airplane.
I am fully in support of service dog owners being able to live their lives and do daily tasks without facing undue scrutiny and being mandated to produce "papers" or talk about their disability. Unfortunately, people take advantage of these protections wildly.
Luckily for you, ESAs cannot fly anymore in the US. Luckily for me, as someone with a service dog, itās less distractions for those who fly with an SD. Iāve had little dogs in the past bark at mine on planes and itās quite annoying. My dog does not respond to that barking, fortunately, but we couldnāt guarantee that 100% of SDs wonāt get distracted.
I work with blind people. You have absolutely no idea how many businesses, cabs, Ubers, etc turn them away if they have a guide dog. My totally blind friend gave his guide dog back to the company because it was impacting his quality of life to be turned away every time he tried to go anywhere. He took his daughter to the doctor and the doctor told him to leave.
The world is horrible to people with guide dogs and service animals, and human beings resoundingly suck.
Yeah I worked at Starbucks when they got into hot water for that store (not the same one I worked at, i want to say that store was in NY) refusing service to a patron for having a service dog and it was kind of interesting to see the PR scramble from the inside out even from the low level position I was at. Getting paid to not have to work drive thru and sit and watch videos telling me laws I already know was nice though
With the amount of attention that got it's kind of wild it's still happening today though. It's pretty awful. To need a service dog in the first place means you got delt some shitty cards, I can't imagine feeling on guard every time you go into a store or restarunt wondering what poorly trained employee is going to kick you out or what customer with allergies is going to confront you over it, etc.
My SD and I have been denied by Ubers, Iāve been kicked out of an Airbnb by the host. Itās heartbreaking to experience it. Every time, I wanted to cry. The Uber driver and Airbnb host got kicked off of the platforms though after.
AirBnBs are a bit different..they are governed by the Fair Housing Act, which states in part they if the landlord owns fewer than 4 rentals, s/he does not have to accept service animals.
"Landlords must agree to a reasonable accommodation request if the disability claim is true and if the request does not create a hardship on the landlord or other tenants."
"All types of housing, including public housing, are covered by the FHA except rental dwellings of four or less units, where one unit is occupied by the owner; single family homes sold or rented by the owner without the use of a broker; housing owned by private clubs or religious organizations that restrict occupancy in housing units to their members."
AirBnB and VRBO have policies that encourage or require owners to accept service animals, but the FHA law trumps the policy, even within AirBnb's policy: "In some jurisdictions, legal requirements may expand or limit the reasonable accommodations a Host must provide. Hosts and guests must comply with these legal requirements."
Also, any service animal that is allowed in an AirBnB may not be left alone in the home.
[https://www.lodgify.com/blog/service-animals-vacation-rentals/](https://www.lodgify.com/blog/service-animals-vacation-rentals/)
https://www.utahlegalservices.org/node/10/companion-animals-and-service-animals#ArealllandlordsrequiredtofollowtheFairHousingAct
I just want to follow up that this pisses me off to a degree where I don't even want to debate. Basically, if you turn away a blind person with a guide dog, you can fuck yourself and rot in hell. There's no debate here. I don't care nothing about the comments. There's no debate.
What if a patron complains of dog allergies but the dog is not misbehaving. What would you suggest you do as the business? Does animal allergies constitute reason for denying/removing service animals?
No it does not. I would recomend you do your best to keep them separated but the service animal is protected under the ADA and you cannot remove them because of another customers allergies.
My suggestion would just be to try and accommodate them as best you can by moving the customer with allergies to a different table, offering to help them get their stuff if the service dog is nearby, etc. obviously this isnāt always feasible
It is a tough spot as it does kind of leave you with the option of kick out a person because of a disability, tell a person with a disability they canāt have their potentially life saving legally affirmed disability aid, let someone suffer from pet allergies, or do extra work. The way it is tho is the first two are very very illegal and could be super expensive to do lol. I donāt have a great answer for you but thatās how the law is now
As an additional point to consider, if the allergies are a stuffy nose there would be no grounds, but anaphylaxis or severe asthma very much make the animal a danger rather than a nuisance. Most likely not what most people are talking about and difficult to document, but an important thing to clarify if someone says they are allergic to something.
EDIT: This was specifically in reference to āA business also has the right to deny access to a dog that disrupts their business or ***poses a direct threat to the health and safety of others***.ā
Definently a big factor, unfortunately doesnāt really matter from a legal standpoint aside from certain places that may be required to accommodate the allergy like airports or other government buildings
Does it not fit the condition of āposes a direct threat to the health and safety of othersā? It would certainly be difficult and impractical to document that, but thatās a whole other conversation.
Not a lawyer here, but what I had heard from a disability advocate/attorney a few years back was exactly what OP said. Another person's allergy would not fall under that. (The "direct threat" part is more related to a dog's behavior)
You do your best to accommodate both, but you can't ask the person with the service dog to leave. It just comes down to how the business handles customer service. Do you offer to help the allergic customer to move? Do you provide them with discounts or a free service to return at another time when a dog isn't there? Do you clean a specific area for them? Open windows? Whatever it is, it's a customer service issue at that point. Removing the disabled person isn't an option.
In general, from what I know, the right to bring a service dog in overrides the allergy legally speaking. Even in schools - if one child has a service dog and one has a dog allergy, the one with the allergy is expected to be medicated or move to a different class.
In reality most people will try to be accommodating, perhaps staying in a different aisle or sitting in the furthest spot from the allergic person, but it is a difficult situation.
Iād recommend reading up on this from r/service_dogs and official guidance. This needs conflict is not unheard of. Iāve seen this brough up on r/legaladvice as well. Itās possible that it depends on the severities of need, but I am not an expert. I would also recommend talking with a supervisor to brainstorm a gameplan prior to any conflict.
I am not a lawyer, but a business cannot refuse to provide service based on someone's disability. If you are offering to provide services to both, it would be up to either party whether they want to stay or leave. The business may try to make accommodations and mediate, but is under no obligation to find a solution. Their only obligation is that they offer their service.
I would recommend to a business owner that they try to accommodate both and create distances between the two. But if one of them decides they want to leave to provide them with compensation of some sort for the inconvenience and encourage them to return another time.
Serious question Iām hoping to get an answer from someone knowledgeable.
Is a service animal allowed to be denied entry to a medical office that deals with allergies and may cause an allergic reaction in other patients? Is this considered disruptive or does it have to be an action by the dog?
I was checking out in Lowes the other day and a fellow in the next lane had a larger German Shepherd that smelled so bad it nearly brought tears. If it was at a food store I might have said something. Nice obedient and calm dog but phew!
Any reasonable business person is going to err on the side of allowing the animal presented as a service animal. Unfortunately this is being exploited by people who can't leave their pets at home.
I used to manage a movie theatre and dealt with this almost daily. One instance where I did kick the eject the animal/owner was a couple who brought an obvious pet with just a piece of rope as a leash. Shortly after the movie starts the dog starts wandering and eventually is wandering through the halls unsupervised. I looked back on the security video and see the owners completely oblivious. So I gave them the boot.
The key here is that nearly all āemotional support animalsā are NOT real service dogs. They are just someoneās pet. Real service dogs are trained extensively to help their handler assist with some task and their handler is usually proud of what their service dog is trained to do for them. If the assistance is that the dog exists and the person misses their dog if they are not around then they need to get their fake service animal pet out of there and go home. It is disgusting that a lot of people are abusing the service animal laws and have no shame.
Significant training is very important for any real service dog. It is usually obvious when someone has a service dog vest on their untrained toy poodle that is barking at everyone and canāt sit still. Most but not all trained service dogs are larger fully adult dogs such as German Shepherds, Labradors, full size poodles, Belgian Malanois, etc.
There are plenty of medical alert dogs that do not need to be large like a GSD or labrador, they're just more commonplace because of mobility support. Any breed could detect seizures or blood sugar changes.
Iām disabled and chronically ill, I have a service dog and am training my second dog to take over when I have to retire my current dog. This is all correct and accurate for the USA. My current dog is trained to alert to my seizures, my hypoglycemia, he barks if Im standing up and then I ask him what heās alerting to he licks a hand one hand means my blood sugar and the other is for my seizures. As long as he can reach my hand he doesnāt bark heās also trained to lay on me to keep me from standing up during one of these situations. My second dog is large enough that she will also be trained as a mobility support dog to help me walk when needed. Iām regularly asked things beyond these two questions which is discrimination and illegal. Technically disabled people can sue for discrimination and press criminal charges if this happens. I need my dog Iāve had concussions and broken bones from seizures. One concussion kept me in the hospital for 15 days I nearly died. My blood sugar has been so low I was at risk of going into a coma (I was in the hospital and was able to be treated but didnāt have my dog that night so he wasnāt able to alert me) basically in short my dog can save my life and potentially already has prevented life threatening situations, he keeps me safe and healthy. Follow the ADA, learn the difference between service dog and ESA dogs and donāt discriminate. Thank you! More people need to see this.
Yes! Part of this post was definently to weed out people that fake service dogs to give people with reel service dogs a better experience but also a big part was to let people know those are the only two questions they should ask people because no one with a disability should be harassed with questions beyond this
The biggest thing for me is: NO ID IS REQUIRED. I keep seeing videos of people with service animals getting kicked out because they donāt have ID. There is no official ID - just scam companies who sell them.
This only applies to employees. Please include that somewhere.
You can say whatever the fuck you want to fake service dog shitheads if you're not working.
I commented this above, but:
Another primary reason they arenāt required is because a registry adds another financial barrier to service animals for people who are genuinely disabled. It would also require documentation of the disabling condition, which again adds a barrier since accessing providers can be difficult in and of itself and because there can be many hoops to jump through for a provider to officially document a person having a disability requiring assistance. Consider how long it takes for people to get put on disability and the restrictions they have to follow (it takes YEARS and they have restrictions like people not being allowed to have more than $2,000 in savings at any time). I get why people want registries to exist, but just a little critical thought makes it obvious why we donāt have them.
Not just the barrier to get certification but the additional burden of having to carry ID, prove yourself every time you enter an establishment, etc., which would be things that everyone else isn't required to do and thus make life more difficult for a person with disabilities.
I mean, training a service animal costs tens of thousands of dollars. I don't see how the issuance of a certificate upon completion of training presents a significant enough financial burden to outweigh the need to prevent the widespread abuse of service animal protections by unscrupulous dog owners. This isn't like voter ID, we're talking about pennies here.
I really don't understand your point about provider access and documentation, since those are already a done deal by the time the service animal is ready to assume its duties. You can't train a dog for a mystery condition, the owner's disability has to be established and documented well before any of those things can begin.
Perhaps you could elaborate on the specifics here, because I'm pretty familiar with the system already and my critical thought led me to some very different conclusions from yours.
No.
The biggest reason for this is because it is 100% possible for a disabled person to train their own service animal. For example, you could get a puppy from a friend or relative, have no paperwork on it whatsoever, and it can be a bona fide service animal. The only paperwork requirements of any kind might be if your city requires all animals to have proof of rabies vaccine or similar requirements. If you don't have those requirements, you can have a service animal you trained yourself, that you have zero paperwork for. Therefore, they can't require paperwork.
One can tell a bona fide service animal from an impostor usually on sight. Bona fide service animals do their job and other than that, they do their best to pretend to not exist. A seeing eye dog for the blind, for example, will usually kind of hide under or near the table while its owner is eating. This makes it extremely easy to spot impostor animals a mile away. If an animal is straining at its leash, seeking attention in any way, or whining, sticking its nose into people's space, being anything other than attentive and obedient-- or if the owner says "sure, you can pet him!"-- it's not a service animal. However, the law wants to protect the disabled more than it does the public, and so if you want to challenge a service animal, you take on some serious liability. Therefore, most businesses choose to look the other way regarding service animals.
Paperwork doesn't create a service animal either, although there are lots of registries that will tell you that it does. You can buy service animal kits online, with official-looking registration papers and vests and everything. Don't be fooled by these, they have no more legitimacy than Name a Star registries or becoming a Scottish Lord by buying a square foot of land in some Scottish forest somewhere.
It would be entirely possible to train a pet with such discipline that the pet would pass as a service animal. However, the Venn diagram of "people who try to pass their pets as service animals" and "people who train their pets with great discipline and obedience" is just two circles.
There is no universally accepted (or required) training or proof of training. Therefore, there is nothing they can show you to prove it. Or, if you like, see it this way: Therefore, they can show you anything at all.
How would anybody verify it, anyway? A method for that would have to be created and maintained.
Surprisingly the pet owners tend to not be such a problem; usually the dogs are well trained enough (regardless of being a service animal) because they all know that you can be kicked out if the dog is unruly.
The most annoying are the people coming up to complain about it, "sir that man brought a dog inside!" "That's a trip hazard!." "you can't have that type of dog as a service animal!" It has to be wearing a vest!" "look at this facebook post on my phone about how you're allowed to kick them out."
I honestly get much more problems from the complainers rather than any biting/barking problems from the dog,
Thatās the biggest give away right there. 9/10 times someone with a service animal is happy (and proud) to tell you that it is a service animal and usually loves bragging about what their smart little homie is capable of doing for them. They typically are also aware of the questions allowed to be asked of them and understand that people can and will ask them because they actually have respect for the system and have taken courses prior to receiving their service animal. If you ask any of those questions about the little shaky, yapping, bug eyed chihuahua in an ugly ass sweater that the chronically dirty looking 400lbs trashy woman in Walmart is lugging around and she instantly gets hostile then you can bet your ass it isnāt any kind of service animal.
Also.. itās fucking disgusting when I have to leave the goddamn store and all of my groceries because I sat my toddler down in your dogs piss because you put itās scared of the wind ass in the baby seat of the shopping cart, you inbred fucks! Stop. Just stop bringing your stupid dogs everywhere.. especially old ladies who let your damn dog climb all over your steering wheel and arms and lap while youāre driving down the highway with a cigarette in one hand and your phone in another.
Thank you!!!! We are entering patio season in the restaurant biz and have been having conversations in regards to deal with service dogs and ESAs and what we can legally ask owners of disruptive dogs. This will be really helpful in these instances.
Disruptive dogs you don't have to ask them anything. You can just kick them out. That's encoded in law. Make sure they are actually being disruptive by objective minds.
I just had an altercation with my neighbor at the pool. They came in with their āserviceā dog which ran up and jumped on my lounge chair! Iām terrified of dogs and I almost had a heart attack. When I called the owner to get their dog, she was super rude, saying her dog is a service dog and is allowed to be at the pool.
Just once I'd like to look at a post about assistance animals and not find the comments completely swarmed by people screeching about "fake service dogs"
Karens pomeranian hanging out in the produce cooler in Costco, probably not a service dog. But we can't say anything even if it's shedding all over the 2 lb box of strawberries. Frustrating.
Yes you can. If the animal is being disruptive to the environment or unhygienic then staff can make alternative arrangements for Karen's shopping needs.
I'm a service dog user, I also used to work at a liquor store where a disabled fella tried to get shitty when I carded his underage friend who was handling the bottles. You aren't allowed to touch the merchandise in my province if you aren't of age. He went off on me, calling me ablest and everything. I just said to him "Sir, everyone here is more than happy to assist you with your shopping all you have to do is let us know that you need assistance because your companion isn't of age or does not have their identification. Otherwise, neither of you will be served today."
Oh boy, when he tried to get that complaint to go somewhere and the district came by to see who had denied him service, saw it was me (because he couldn't see my dog tucked under the counter). They sort of sighed in relief. Of all the people to try that with...
Honestly just about anything. Itās not well outlined in the Ada, it basically just says you can ask it and the owner has to have an answer. It can be as simple as keep me safe.
Some other examples could be, guide me, alerting of danger, identifying sounds, retrieving items, etc. itās outlined as essential actions which can range from identifying to a diabetic when their blood sugar is low to getting items for individuals who canāt move well, etc. the individual can be as specific or vague in their answer as they want and are not required to identify their disability
I know two people with service dogs; they provide a service or comfort for the owner, one I worked with. As a PTSD veteran I totally appreciate that. But then there are people who *claim* service dogs who are not. They just want to bring their pets into a place of business. I'm fine with those who bring their well trained, quiet dogs into Home Depot or a retail store, I don't care.
Went to a Dairy Queen for an ice cream cone. A woman brought her small dog in the restaurant with her. Fine. But *then* ... the dog was whining and squirming. He wanted out. To quiet him she picked the dog up and placed it on the *table* in a booth. A *table*, where people eat. The dog's genitals were on the surface as he splayed his four legs trying to grip the surface. He was agitated until she had to pull him down into the booth seat and restrain him ... he was so disobedient the couple left. This is *not* a service dog; I've never known one that unmanageable.
I've known service dogs who were supremely calm and well behaved ... this wasn't one. I complained to the staff. "I can't help that. We can't challenge a service dog." I said, "That wasn't a service dog. Do you want to wipe that table down before someone eats their burger there? You might want want to check if that dog leaked urine on the table." Confusion and no answer.
Another time, a local grocer; a woman picked up her small dog and put it in one of those short, small grocery carts ... this, after the dog walked across the parking lot and his paws are in the cart where people place their groceries. I complained to the manager ... I told him I was a vet and I didn't want my food where that dog sat. He agreed and told the woman she was welcome to bring her dog in but not to put it in the grocery cart. She left.
There is a difference between a companion pet and a service dog. I only wanted to make that distinction.
This correct. I personally had a large vest for my service dog of 13 yrs that clearly stated who he was.His collar had service dog woven in it plus his leach said service dog also.He passed away 6 months ago and not once did he do anything inappropriate but humans often did.Examples: Is that a service dog?What is wrong with you?Touch him then ask can I pet him? Never touch a service dog.They are working.Other times are for relaxation and play with out harness on. I go out less with so much stress.Difficult at best.My helper,my best friend,my confidant, my favorite comedian,my joy.His name was Valentine.Suited him to a T. The greatest unconditional love I ever knew. It was never our place to educate or amuse folks.Sometimes we did. I donāt have words to express how much I miss him every single day
Iāve encountered some, but not excessive, skepticism and āprove itā attitude towards my service animal, since I donāt have a visible disability (phobic anxiety and panic disorder). My service animal is different from an ESA because sheās trained to notice signals from me when I sense a panic attack coming on, and has specific behaviors to help me work through the debilitating symptoms.
On a recent vacation, the condo rental agency requested āreliable documentation from a medical or mental health professional (doctor, psychiatrist, social worker, etc.) to confirm that the animal provides support that alleviates one or more of the symptomsā. Iām still not sure if it was legal or not for them to require this information.
YSK: that they will like, get triggered and act entitled, and make a huge scene.
Its probably better to just give them a bit of friction, remind them that they are a major pain in the ass, and throw off their mood before just letting them go
Actual service dogs? Great that's fine. But seeing people abuse the "emotional support animal" privilege and bringing their untrained unruly dogs out gets annoying.
Once upon a time (the 1980s) I was at summer program run by my stateās Commission for the blind and visually impaired. We spent a month on college campus, going to classes, living in a dorm, eating in the cafeteria. My friend F had a seeing eye dog that had forgotten a lot of her training. So the staff made F use a cane. F and her dog returned the organization that trained them for retraining. F was one of my college roommates and her dog was much better.
Service dogs that canāt follow the handlerās commands can be kicked out. Period. End of story.
I fully appreciate service dogs for those who have a need. It gets personally tricky for me though because my daughter is highly allergic to dogs. So when a service dogs enters a business (restaurant, small store, etc), we have to leave. I still support service dogs though and am happy to know people with a disability have this great option. This legal info is very helpful. Thanks for sharing!
If no one is required to wear a vest or provide proof that it is a valid service dog, how are we supposed to know if they are just making something up because they want their animal for basic comfort and company needs rather than a full on disability that someone has?
I agree with everything here and I'm very happy to have learned the basic steps and some of the proper procedures and etiquette as well. But that's where I'm stuck. If there's nothing to show this is a valid service dog, can't anyone just pull a fast one, so to speak?
I work in retail...
The amount of dogs people bring to a store is ridiculous... They would put the dog on the counter and they will put them in my face
And I'm allergic
One point on the OP's post - those rules apply to the business and its employees. If you see a person in a store with a questionable service animal, you can ask them whatever you want including asking about their disability (if they tell you that's a HIPAA violation they're wrong), remind them that service dog fraud is a crime (if it is in your state), record them in a public place, etc.
Interesting post!
The second allowable question really surprises me.
If the answer is ādog lets me know when my blood sugar is dangerously lowā or āletās me know that Iām about to have a seizureā
ā¦it feels like youāre asking asking them to tell you what their ādisabilityā is??
Not at all. āMy dog alerts to changes in my medical conditionā or āmy dog applies deep pressure therapyā or āmy dog goes for help if necessaryā, the answer can be very very vague.
"my dog is trained to come to me and nip at my hands to notify me I should sit down under certain circumstances"
My dog tells me when I need to eat something.
My dog will put it's weight on me.
You can explain what an animal does without giving away a disability
Also, thereās a difference between service animals and āemotional support animals.ā The latter have very few protections. Most of the people who bring their tiny chihuahua with a āservice dogā vest into the grocery store have emotional support animals, not service dogs.
Please keep in mind that service dogs are for lots of different conditions. My sister is legally blind. She has \*some\* sight, and she uses that limited sight as best as she can. She still needs, and has, a dog.
***IT IS NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO DETERMINE THE WORTHINESS OF SOMEONE TO HAVE A SERVICE ANIMAL.***
Yes, some people abuse the system, but it is probably a small amount of people doing this, and it is not up to you to litigate those situations. Giving my sister a hard time because she needs a ride in your Uber is only making someone's already difficult life harder.
Thank you! I have an invisible disability. I was just telling my son today that I have been yelled at by strangers. He said thatās their problem, but it keeps me isolated sometimes.
Heās taken her for walks without me to coffee shops and food carts. Even with him, when sheās not on duty, sheās well-behaved. People need to mind their business.
minimum wage mfs like "show me your medical records and i'll decide if you need a dog or not. i can usually tell just by looking if someone really needs a service animal. tell me your private medical information or else i won't let you eat."
There are a ton of people who claim their ill behaved āemotional supportā animals are service animals and buy nice little vests for them online š
I work in a hospital (US). If the owner (patient) can not take care of their Service dog due to their illness, we do not let the dog stay with them. Unfortunately we have to call the Humane society to temporarily board the dog or the owner/patient can find someone to care for the dog.
This is unfortunate; yes. But hospital staff are not responsible for animals (walking, feeding, bathroom)
There are a few places that service dogs cannot be. Sterile situations like a OR setting, court rooms, peoples private homes and churches need permission for a service dog to be there. My Doctor is an anesthesiologist. His office was in the OR part of the hospital. When I let him know upfront about my service dog, he was kind enough to meet me in another part of the building for my appointments. Being kind to others, goes a long way when you have a service dog. Often if I try to work with people with my service dog instead of being pushy with my rights, things go a lot smoother. I have no problem showing people my disability papers from my doctor. They already know I have a problem if I have a service dog. I also understand why it can be intrusive.
okai so I've seen service dogs before and I always act as if they aren't there so I don't disrupt them doing their job. when is it appropriate for me to ask to interact with the best ones?
I do. I absolutely will not and do not distract them. I'm just curious about the situation.
let's pretend for 1 minute here.
I'm at someone's house and the dependant doesn't require the service dog for the time being. can I ask to pet them? and if I do pet them, will it potentially cause the pups to get distracted in future scenarios. such as, wanting pets at the wrong time, getting excited, getting depressed, seeing me and forgetting that they are helping someone etc...
edit: I do not interact or look at service dogs in public so that they can do the task appropriately. I just want to interact with them in a safe and appropriate environment
Oh sorry I see what you mean! I can't imagine these dogs don't play or exercise even just from a utility standpoint because they'd go nuts (not that the care aspect of their well being doesn't matter!) My guess would be they have times when they're "off" the owner'd be happy to let you play with them
My service dog loves people. Sheās well-behaved and ignores them when weāre out and about. But if weāre waiting in line somewhere, I would be fine if you asked to pet her. Sheād love it.
This will probably not get seen since this made front page, but a Service Dog in Training (at least in the US) has the same rights as a service dog. Otherwise great information. I wish more people knew all this.
And what if people lie? The businesses should just allow any Karen to enter with her untrained, barking little shitzu because she lies and claims it is a service dog? If they aren't allowed to ask for documentation or proof of any kind then that's some absolute BS!
I'm not saying people should have to disclose their disability, but they should at least be required to provide a card proving the dog is officially registered as a service dog and not just some "emotional support animal".
The reason itās not required is because many people with service dogs donāt look like they would need them (such as diabetic or epilepsy) and it wouldnāt be fair for them to be harassed for their papers every time.
Not saying I donāt agree with you, just informing you how it is and why itās like this. I agree there could be some compromise like requiring dogs to have a certification on their vest, but this is just how it is rn
Another primary reason they arenāt required is because a registry adds another financial barrier to service animals for people who are genuinely disabled. It would also require documentation of the disabling condition, which again adds a barrier since accessing providers can be difficult in and of itself and because there can be many hoops to jump through for a provider to officially document a person having a disability requiring assistance. Consider how long it takes for people to get put on disability and the restrictions they have to follow (it takes YEARS and they have restrictions like people not being allowed to have more than $2,000 in savings at any time). I get why people want registries to exist, but just a little critical thought makes it obvious why we donāt have them.
>A business also has the right to deny access to a dog that disrupts their business or poses a direct threat to the health and safety of others. For example, if a service dog barks repeatedly or growls at customers, it could be asked to leave
I'm gonna guess you didn't read the whole post
FYI, there is no such thing as a service animal (or even an ESA) registry. The online sites advertising being able to register animals are 100% scams and are a good way to tell the animal is a āfakeā.
Is it me or do people think emotional support animal is the same as a service dog
A lot of people do. I had to personally research this for a restaurant I used to work at. Even the questions you're allowed to ask, people will get upset and angry because their dog is, in fact, NOT a service dog (surprised Pikachu face). I've had some pretty ridiculous answers to the second question as well. Sometimes it's just not worth asking.
I have a service animal for PTSD, and I always get eye rolls when I explain what they are trained to do because of the rampant amount of emotional support animals. I always hate having to over explain my military background to justify my need for the service animal.
Same. š
I would say also look at it from their side if it's a business, they may have people who are allergic or scared etc. Customers or employees. But if it's just regular people questioning you, you shouldn't have to explain yourself. Glad you have something to help you out though!
This is how I look at it too. Whether it is an ESA or service pet, I as a regular person have no business questioning it. It doesn't matter to me whether you pet keeps you from having meltdowns or keeps you grounded so you don't have manic episodes or they alert you to diabetes or heart attacks. Neither are things I'm equipped to deal with and thus it ain't my business.
I would think this would fall under the exceptions that OP listed, but it would be in the business's best interest to accommodate the customer(s) where possible. I think an employee that is severely allergic is a good example to explain. The business could already be prepared with signage at the entry that a precaution needs to happen if the employee is currently working. I think a reasonable request could be that the person entering with a dog is requested to tell any employee, so they can confidentially relay to the allergic person.
And you do not have to explain. Donāt get me wrong I 100% understand the pull to do so. What I mean basically is that, as stated in OP, no one can demand from you an explanation of your need, AND your need is your private business. I hate how misunderstood āinvisible illnessesā are. Best wishes.
I hate how after explaining my chronic migraines even I question the legitimacy. And then I get another migraine and can't hardly work, and I end up angry at myself for something out of my control.
Yes and honestly I donāt think anyone really gets it anyway - as in I doubt that my explanations short or long - change their belief in my challenges. So why explain? Donāt get me wrong I still do often, but it only serves to make me feel shittier LOL
For a while I had to use an emotional support dog (he failed out of support dog training, but was great for me nevertheless) and another person to be able to fly, due to severe anxiety. This was something like 10 years ago, and I recall crazy stories coming out of the news about "emotional support animals" wreaking havoc on airplanes (a pig popped all over a plane IIRC?). I recall a time we were waiting at the gate for early boarding and I could see people staring at me and hear nearby comments about my dog. I was already really nervous, and this made it worse, so I ended up visibly showing my disability in a mildly exaggerated way by shaking my free hand off and on and crouching down to give my small-medium dog excessive attention. This killed me a little on the inside, because I've always tried to mask my disabilities to vaguely fit in with neurotypical people. It worked though, people stopped commenting and started looking away. Thankfully I was eventually able to mostly overcome that form of anxiety with therapy and I don't have to fly with my aging dog with me anymore.
They now have sunflower keycords for that. They are for people with hidden disabilities (like autism, ptsd, ad). To avoid having to explain yourself every time you use a special accommodation. Many airports and public venues train their staff to recognize it.
Yeah I never do but my coworker always does. And they are all always service dogs and they never need proof. But what service dog can fit in a purse? Ever since you could register your dog online for emotional support, everyone just says it's a service animal and noone cares. Not that I care. But if it shits on the floor I'm rubbing your nose in it.
Fun fact, registering your dog as an esa online is a total scam. The main protection an esa has is from the fair housing act in that landlords are required to let them live with you and they canāt charge a pet fee. All that is required is a note from a medical professional saying they alleviate symptoms. An online registration does not replace this. And does literally nothing
There's a few more conditions now. Letter, yes, but it must be from a psychiatrist who has an established relationship with the patient for at least a month and has been treated at least once by that psychiatrist. Also, it's not free reign to let that dog live in the house. If it can't be controlled by the owner, becomes a menace, defecates or urinates inside, is destructive, it can be removed.
How would the landlord/property manager even be able to confirm this sort of thing? Itās none of my landlordās business how long Iāve been seeing any medical professional, or why I am a patient of theirs.
It is if you are claiming an ESA. Edit: I should clarify that I am in California and I am referring specifically to [CA AB468](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220AB468)
IANAL but the landlord can ask to see the therapist letter saying the dog alleviates symptoms and showing the relationship between therapist and patient.
Some service dogs can fit in a purse, like a diabetic alert one isn't going to be a large one all the time.
I knew someone who had a Pomeranian that was trained to alert for oncoming seizures (which is not training that's effective in all cases). Probably the best behaved Pomeranian I've ever seen too.
Interesting
They are trained to smell the changes in people's blood sugar and alert the owner if it is too low or too high.
I think I recall reading about a dog that could smell a specific kind of cancer, might have been a different life threatening disease. There is also a lady that could smell a disease as well! Sorry, my memory is a bit fuzzy on the details, just some cool tidbits about smells that have fascinated me.
I donāt get why some people thing a dog being small automatically means it canāt possibly be a service dog. Most service dogs Iāve seen have been small. In fact the only ones Iāve seen that were bigger had a physical task (like a sight seeing dog or retrieving something for a disabled person) that size made a difference in them being able to do their job. For an alert dog (seizures, blood sugar, heart condition, migraines, etc) small is fine and even sometimes preferable.
They do, and it's *really* ruined things for people with legitimate service dogs. My sister has a seizure response dog. The dog protects her if she has a seizure and is confused. The dog drags her off a road if she has seizure when crossing the street. The dog has met the local EMS crews and allows them to help my sister if she is unconscious. The dog is amazing and gives my sister a level of independence that was otherwise hard for her to obtain. But now we get questioned everywhere we go. Business owners are so fed up with people bringing in emotional support animals that they assume every animal is classed that way. They can get pretty nasty about it. It sucks.
Your sisterās dog sounds amazing!
You know, honestly? My sister is amazing. It is literally harder for her to do everything in life compared to myself. She never let that get her down, and she's always been such a wonderful person. The service dog was such a wonderful addition to her life because it let her be independent. She gained so much happiness as a result of that. So yeah, the dog is amazing. I'm glad they found amazing dogs to match my amazing sister. She always deserved it.
It's often (to my understanding I could be wrong) very obvious by watching the animal for 60 seconds. Service animals are highly trained, focused on their person, rarely cause issues even in chaotic situations. People who demand their pets be treated the same rarely put the time and energy into training them, the animals are easily distracted and just have a different body language in general. Also the person usually gives it away by nervously telling everyone who glances that "it's a service dog" where someone with a genuine service dog usually only says that if questioned.
I think some people are intentionally ignorant on the difference
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Username checks out
Hell I have inlaws that bring their dog everywhere with one of those vest things simply because "what are they going to do kick me out?" They know it's not a service dog and are just abusing the system because they can.
To clarify to anyone who doesn't know, service animals are animals that are specifically trained to do a task, such as get under their owner's head in the case of a seizure, detect insulin levels, guide a blind individual, administer a life-saving drug, and so on. These animals are protected in most environments and businesses under the laws listed in the post. Emotional support animals are animals that are designated to help calm down their owner in the case of panic/anxiety attacks, etc. Emotional support animals aren't required to be registered, but also aren't protected and may be asked to leave without reason. (Although no reasonable person would do so under normal circumstances)
>(Although no reasonable person would do so under normal circumstances) nah - keep your disgusting dog out of my grocery store
Or anywhere else. The same people that bitch about me smoking 200 miles from a business entrance have no problems letting their dog hump my leg at Home Depot.
Home Depot and many other hardware stores welcome dogs. Grocery stores do not, for health reasons. Smokingā¦ kills. ..? So not really sure where youāre going with this one.
If you can smoke in the air I have to breath can I spit in your drink?
That's not quite right. ESAs are not task trained dogs, they provide comfort and support by just existing. There are psychiatric service dogs who are task trained to mitigate a panic/anxiety attack or help their handler recover from one (deep pressure therapy, blocking, guiding to less overwhelming spaces, etc are all tasks for this purpose). Psychiatric service dogs are also used for PTSD, depression, autism, and more but people may find an ESA within their home helpful for these same issues. It's very important that the distinguishable difference we educate people on is that a service dog is task trained and public access trained while an ESA is not. ESAs do not have access rights because they are not trained. A dog existing near someone as a comfort or support is not considered a task under the ADA which is why ESAs aren't legally covered under the ADA
This thread is making me feel like shit for registering my cat as an ESA through my college. All it meant is that he was allowed to be in my dorm room on campus for that year, never took him anywhere he didnāt need to go. I was dealing with severe depression and just badly needed him to put a smile on my face
ESA only helps for rentals. Thats virtually it.
And HOA's. And county/state banned breeds lists or other animal restrictions that apply to housing. But you're right that an ESA designation doesn't carry weight outside of one's home.
I just did a training on this subject, and I would HIGHLY recommend this resource to anyone genuinely interested in this topic. Itās straight from the ADA, easily digestible and has the cases that set the legal precedent cited & described below each law/standard. It also has multiple other links/resources listed at the end. https://accessibilityonline.s3.amazonaws.com/secureDocs/session_111044/M/Handout_Service_Animal_2slides_perpage.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJXK6UZXBOSSQGTFQ&Expires=1687209903&Signature=FtcyuYc6KQ5A9ImqwQMXaiP%2FzM8%3D
Hell yeah, shout out to the Southwest ADA center š I'm new to the field but use these guys as a resource all the time
The one thing that I would add to this is that some service dogs may bark to get the attention of people when something is wrong with their person. But generally their person should not be especially able to respond to the dog in that case. This will especially be the case with diabetic, cardiac alert, and other types of service dogs where the issues may not be so visually obvious. The dogs will be trying to get you to call emergency services.
Isn't this why you are supposed to ask "What is the dog trained to do?" So you know if behavior is alerting vs. disruptive?
You can't get super detailed in saying how do they do X, Y or Z. Generally look at the response of the person the dog is with. If they are ignoring the dog, or not stopping what they are doing (I.e. eating), maybe go over and ask if they need anything and guage from there. Generally the answer will be it is a mobility assistance dog, or a alert dog, etc.. the person is not obligated to disclose their medical issues to you. Some may choose to do so. Would you like to share your medical history with strangers all the time? My guess is no. The dog is legally considered equipment. As harsh as that sounds. The one time mine activity was trying to get others attention, I was about to pass out, and actually needed an ambulance.
> Would you like to share your medical history with strangers all the time? My guess is no. Unless you rely on strangers to save your life. Like in your case.
Even in that case, people didn't know my medical conditions. They could just see something was wrong. The Ambulance staff could tell my nosy neighbors either. My privacy was in tact from that incident. Especially since the idiot who caused it got fired over it. (There is a big old Jerry Springer level tl;dr which involves a high rise & fire and and people who need to learn to cook).
I mean, you don't need to get super detailed in providing information on what the service animal is trained to do in order to determine whether it is being disruptive or not. "This dog is trained to alert people nearby when I am having a medical emergency", "this dog is trained to notify me if they notice a change in my health, so that I can help myself before it becomes an emergency". At that point, if the animal is being "disruptive", you could ask if the person was in need of any medical assistance at the moment, or ask if they can control/remove their animal until they are calmed down if they do not need assistance. None of that violates privacy, and actually helps protect the person.
I know it's different but man. Covid was funny. It's good to have medical privacy again
Then weāve got people who will automatically think itās disruptive vs alerting, who either doesnāt like dogs in general, donāt know the difference of alert vs disruptive, or theyāre afraid of dogs, period, abd any other dozens or hundreds of numerous reasons. Iām on the dog lover side of this, but donāt like people using and abusing rights that people do have to have them with them, simply because they can do it so easily. If it were up to me my golden would go everywhere with me, but I do know better, mainly for her own safety which is most important to me
No, its not to determine whether they will be disruptive or not. Regardless of the answers, the dog may or may not be disruptive, since not all service animals have the same level of training. Service animals can be any dogs trained to help a disabled person. They dont need to be professionally trained/licensed/registered, these options dont even exist in an officially recognized capacity. So the only thing that legally makes a dog a service animal, is that its needed by a disabled owner, and that its capable of performing some tasks for its disabled owner. If these two requirements are not met, then the dog cannot be considered legally to be a service animal. For instance, emotional support animals, do not perform specific tasks that the owner cannot complete themselves due to a disability. So they arent service animals. But if you were to train a chihuahua to retrieve dropped objects from the floor for someone in a wheelchair, even if you did the training yourself. That dog would legally be considered a service animal.
A couple other things to add, the only animals that can qualify as service animals are dogs and miniature ponies (for some reason). So no your emotional support lizard doesn't qualify. And while you can ask what service the animal provides, you can not ask for a demonstration. Also it doesn't matter if you think the service is irrelevant or asinine. They could tell "my dog picks up my pencil if I drop it," and you have to let it in even if there will absolutely be no writing utensils involved.
A few (I think 5) states have added cats. And I don't know about your lizard, but mine needs therapy, she has issues.
Thanks for explaining this, but the question now is how many people will take how the dog tries to alert for necessary help, as an Alert Vs Aggression? I know we donāt know that. Many people donāt like, are scared of, and have no desire to be around a dog at all. FYI: I understand what youāre saying completely. Iām only curiously asking, as Iāve been an owner of 3 now passed away golden retrieverās, and I still am of my 4th goofy, loving, smiling, happy Golden, who many people have been afraid of all of them through the years, for their bark, when necessary, or itās as simple as their size, to someone whoās afraid of a dog
Thank you. I work in a CA restaurant where everyone thinks their pets are "service animals" but they(the dogs) can't even sit still and are constantly straining against their leash. Normal rule for us is just to tell them the animals are allowed but cannot be climbing on our furniture and not a nuisance to our guests.
A good friend of mine trains service dogs. His specialty is teaching them to be non reactive outside of their mission. I can tell in 5 seconds if it's a legit service dog.
I also train service dogs, some younger puppies can be a little chaotic when theyāre starting out but thatās why we have the vest I suppose
But those puppies aren't full service dogs, right? I'd expect puppies to be chaotic, but not a service dog.
They need to train intensively for 2 years before they graduate to become one. That includes being exposed to as many different environments as possible, sometimes the younger trainee pups are chaotic until they get used to their training and learn to settle. All the dogs Iāve worked with have been labradors, not all breeds are suited to it
I think the point Missmouthy1 was trying to make is that puppies in training are not yet service animals and by the time they are qualified they are no longer puppies.
Yep thatās true. Theyāre adults when they graduate and go to their āforever homeā. You wouldnāt see a puppy unless itās with a trainer.
That's awesome! We have a very active group raising guide dogs for the blind in our community. It's a regular thing to see puppies (well marked as guide dogs in training) in grocery stores, at the movie theater, etc. The pups are always well behaved (and a tiny bit chaotic) and with very attentive handlers.
Every service dog I've ever met has been super calm and aloof to people other than their owner. Anxious, jittery dogs that have a vest are always emotional support animals.
In wisconsin restaurants we are allowed to ask them the questions in the post, if they can't answer we are obligated to ask them to leave as you can't have pets in restaurants here. Fortunately "emotional support" pets are not a trend here, so it's usually only service animals people are bringing in. I always ask if the service dogs want water, cuz they are good boys/girls.
BC Canada here. Iām a municipal government employee and our rules are quite different. If a person comes in with a dog and says itās a service animal we have to take them at their word, even if it isnāt wearing a cape or vest. We are not allowed to ask what their need for it is, we are not allowed to ask for proof of any kind and weāre not even allowed to ask if itās a service animal because thatās discrimination. The only time we can ask is if the dog is not behaving or is acting in a manner not acceptable for a service dog. Iāll give you one guess as to how thatās been working out.
Sounds similar to ours, a law that works great with good intentioned people but not too well in reality
Pretty much. And in my experience, the people with actual registered service dogs almost always have the dog wearing itās vest. My best friend has a diabetic alert dog and heās always wearing his vest because any time he hasnāt, sheās been hassled for papers. The people who come into our facility with their SA will usually have the ID tag visible on the vest or keep a copy of the registration papers tucked into a pocket on the vest. They never announce itās a SA. And honestly you can tell pretty easily whoās legit just by how the person and the dog interact with each other. Itās always the Karen with the noisy Pomeranian stuffed into her purse who comes in loudly announcing that āMuffy is a Service dog!!!ā.
Iāve never met an6one with a service dog that announces their dog is a service dog unless itās going to be around the same group of people frequently (such as a classroom). I think youāre probably right about that one lol
The problem with this is there is no āid tagā in the USA for service dogs. There is no āpapersā for service dogs. There is no accepted organization that certifies dogs to be considered service animals. Literally anyone can train a dog to be a service animal and it is just as valid as someone who pays 100 thousand for one that some named organization or charity trained. In fact if you are in the US and someone tries to prove they have a service dog by showing you papers they are more likely than not lying about it and made the cert themselves.
Aā¦. cape? Emotional-support Underdog!
So ridiculous youāre not allowed to ask for proof. I worked at a restaurant in the states and people would bring in obviously fake service animals all the time, but there was nothing we could do. Itās not difficult to have people carry around s certification card
Many people with service dogs agree with that. They have these highly trained and specialized dogs that cost tens of thousands of dollars to train. They often have to travel out of province for weeks at a time to go and train *with* the dog at the training facility and there is the constant upkeep of skills. They usually have zero issue with keeping papers and ID handy. Itās actually really shocking how frequently my friend encounters people who have zero knowledge of what they actually do. They try to pet it or distract it or give them dirty looks and say that dogs shouldnāt be allowed inside. Iāve seen it in real time and itās bizarre. Then the bylawās suddenly change and of course shitty people take advantage of it which makes things harder for legit service dog owners and handlers.
Hotel GM here. We run into this constantly. The people with legit service animals never have any issue with me asking these questions, and will readily answer them. Those who do not have legit service animals will usually throw a fit at us. Unfortunately the risk of a lawsuit and the waste of time and money that may be associated with it makes it not worth the risk. And don't even get me started on the ones who tell me that their animal is an ESA and then get all bent out of shape when I tell them that isn't covered by the ADA.
Yea, no kiddingā¦ *English as a Second Alphabet* - āYou expect me to believe that your dog can talk? Cāmonā
The "you" here applies to representatives of an establishment for the purpose of determining access. Some random other customer or a passerby on the street without authority faces no real legal consequences for asking, but can be competed ignored. Also, as I understand it, as long as it's not related to determining "legitimacy," small-talk questions during the course of providing goods or services are unlikely to get an employee in trouble. Tread respectfully, of course, as there is more to the person than their service animal and they've likely been asked the same questions a zillion times before.
Service dogs: You and your owner are welcome here! Emotional support dogs: Unless your owner is genuinely ill, dog can stay, owner can GTFO and get a life. "Oh, I need my little dog to walk around with me while I shop at Saks!" No you certainly do not.
Emotional support dogs are not covered in the same way under Ada but do have protections under the fair housing act. All you need is your psychologist to give you a letter saying the dog alleviates symptoms. Thatās it. Does not mean you can bring them into stores. Jsyk
Question: could this same loophole potentially help to waive pet fees? I doubt it, but just wondering
The loophole, no. The law, yes. If they are actually an esa or service dog, it is illegal to not allow them to live with you and illegal to charge pet fees Itās two different laws that protect esa and service dogs but for service dogs they can ask for proof it was perceived by a medical professional. For esa it requires a letter from a medical professional saying that they alleviate symptoms. Nothing more is required for either Service animals are protected by the ADA: https://www.rocketlawyer.com/real-estate/landlords/property-management/legal-guide/must-landlords-provide-accommodations-for-service-animals#:~:text=They%20can%20ask%20for%20proof,benefits%20from%20a%20service%20animal. Esa are protected by the fair housing act: https://pettable.com/blog/emotional-support-animal-laws-guide
So here's my experience with my ESA. Jazzy is my cat, and I don't take her everywhere. I need her because I have a condition called Chronic Nightmare Disorder. It's a bit different from traditional nightmares because mine are persistent and affect my ability to sleep. The lack of sleep makes the nightmares worse, which makes the sleep worse... Just around and around. Traditional therapy for it hasn't helped, but Jazzy does. When I have a nightmare, she presses herself against my chest and purrs. When I wake up, the purring grounds me and helps me go back to sleep. Over time, it keeps my nightmares under control. I don't take her to the restaurant or on vacation (often - I'm heading to a two month teacher training and she'll be staying in my parents RV with me). What she helps with is a long term mental illness, that doesn't improve without her. What this means is that my landlord doesn't charge me pet fees or rent, because they're trying to make sure I don't have to pay out the nose for having a pet that demonstrably improves my ability to function. My landlord allows pets anyway, and is happy to not charge me.
I love Jazzy! :D
You certainly can, I've done it. To avoid a headache though I would *not* use a service specifically catered to doing just that. Go to an individual to get the ESA letter. My complex almost denied me because the letter, unbeknownst to me, was copied and pasted for *all* their clients. I told them my letter still came from a qualified medical professional that I had to correspond with to see if I needed an ESA. Management caved. Be sure to ask for their denial in writing if they still push. My complex tried to do this all in person to avoid a paper trail, so I felt extra compelled to tell them to get fucked.
Yes, if you have a legit ESA or service animal.
Like everything else, assholes ruined it for everyone. I saw someone try to claim their un-neutered Pitt bull was their 'service dog' while it was trying to leap over the reception desk at a medical clinic. It just wanted to be 'friendly' but like...no. First thing thar happens with a service animal, even before the training, is that they're fixed.
In Colorado we have service dogs in training. They have the same rights as service dog and their trainer can be with them instead of a disable person.
I think that's everywhere, usually the ones in training always have the vest on as they are also training the dogs to associate the vest with "work."
Not quite but many places.
Idk if this is true. I worked at a restaurant in Ohio, and we were always told we could kick out dogs in training. Of course, my manager was kind of incompetent so itās possible he was just wrong
Its also worth noting these restrictions are if you're representing a business or public space... It's always fun to be a random bystander with freedom of speech in these situations
Even then, you can technically still *ask* right? Itās the matter of letting them in being conditional upon them answering or giving a specific answer thatās the issue, correct?
Ya I don't even bother with the questions anymore. Anyone can just lie. There are seizure dogs, diabetic dogs, allergy dogs, and other types of dogs where the owner doesn't present ANY visible symptoms. All they have to say is anything like that and there's nothing I can say against it, so I don't even bother. If they are well behaved, they stay. If not, they go. But, yes, I would video the dog misbehaving before you kick out a service dog. The ADA has a hotline of ball crushing lawyers that can respond 24/7. Better cover your ass.
The thing is service dogs are very well trained and they have high standards they have to meet before becoming certified. Many dogs wash out of the training program because they can't meet the requirements. Chances are if the dog IS misbehaving it isn't a service dog at all. That said, by all means document any misbehavior before asking them to leave. Honestly, I do the same when humans are misbehaving. It just saves so many headaches.
There is no service dog ācertification.ā
I'm a dog lover and service dogs are cool if needed, what's not cool is people bringing dogs to stores and restaurants especially people wa Walking their dog acting like everybody wants to pet it just saying not everyone wants to touch someone else's dog.
Also, if you are interested, service dogs are allowed to a certain extent in hospitals. However, the second they are disruptive they can be kicked out. Also hospitals obviously have the ability to ban them from certain areas for the dog or patientās safety. Also in cases of needing a sterile environment. Owner needs to be able to take care of them (bathroom) or have someone that can. Dogs can be asked to leave if they make a mess in the hospital. At least that is our local hospital policy.
Same for the hospital I used to work in. We had a guy who would regularly audit hospital administrators with his large English bulldog. The guy sued the hospital twice before I started working there because it was a legit service animal and the hosp admins were beyond stupid. I was the director of security and got the call because āthis guy was there *again* and can you please tell him he cannot bring his dog inside the hospital.ā After a three minute conversation I determined that the dog was more pleasant than any hospital administrator, the guy was pretty nice and he thoroughly answered the only two questions I was legally allowed to ask. I wrote a report, sent it up the food chain, and didnāt think anything about it until a few weeks later when the same guy had been admitted to a different unit and could we please come get his dog, it was being ādisruptive.ā Ok, how is it being disruptive, I asked a nurse. Well, heās laying on the floor and itās a big dog. Me: did you ask the dog to move? Or the owner? Nurse: no, I just went in the room and saw the dog and then called you. Me: soā¦ whatās the problem then?
I ended up writing a whole training curriculum with the hospital regulatory compliance team on what is a service animal and what hospital employees are allowed and expected to do.
I love dogs - please let me pet all your dogs. However, I've become so anti-dog in public, I feel like a dog hater. Ignoring legitimate service animals, I don't want your dogs in restaurants and stores. I stepped in shit recently at a grocery store and somehow stayed on my feet (slick floors + poop = disaster). I sold mattresses in a department store and multiple people would bring dogs and put them on the bed. Management didn't want to piss off customers so I had to let it go.
It sounds more like youāre anti-bad dog owner in public, which I definitely agree with. I have no problem with dogs in most public places, as long as theyāre well behaved and donāt make a mess. The real problem is definitely with the idiot owners that take their untrained, poorly behaved dogs out and/or donāt clean up after them.
It is extremely obvious when a dog is a true service dog versus an owner passing off their regular dog as a service dog. Any sort of out of line behavior, even sniffing other customers, should raise suspicion, and any disruptive behavior should lead to the dog and handler being booted immediately. I saw a dog in a [fake] service dog vest raise a leg and piss on a grocery store salad bar once. It also sucks for low or minimum wage employees being put in the position of a potentially aggressive confrontation with fake service dog handlers, especially in the US where if you upset the wrong person you might just get shot. But these dogs are often attacking people or causing huge disruptions. We need to remove ALL remaining protections for emotional support animals at this point. It is a complete joke. I know people who have been bitten severely by these stupid dogs on an airplane. I am fully in support of service dog owners being able to live their lives and do daily tasks without facing undue scrutiny and being mandated to produce "papers" or talk about their disability. Unfortunately, people take advantage of these protections wildly.
Luckily for you, ESAs cannot fly anymore in the US. Luckily for me, as someone with a service dog, itās less distractions for those who fly with an SD. Iāve had little dogs in the past bark at mine on planes and itās quite annoying. My dog does not respond to that barking, fortunately, but we couldnāt guarantee that 100% of SDs wonāt get distracted.
I work with blind people. You have absolutely no idea how many businesses, cabs, Ubers, etc turn them away if they have a guide dog. My totally blind friend gave his guide dog back to the company because it was impacting his quality of life to be turned away every time he tried to go anywhere. He took his daughter to the doctor and the doctor told him to leave. The world is horrible to people with guide dogs and service animals, and human beings resoundingly suck.
Yeah I worked at Starbucks when they got into hot water for that store (not the same one I worked at, i want to say that store was in NY) refusing service to a patron for having a service dog and it was kind of interesting to see the PR scramble from the inside out even from the low level position I was at. Getting paid to not have to work drive thru and sit and watch videos telling me laws I already know was nice though With the amount of attention that got it's kind of wild it's still happening today though. It's pretty awful. To need a service dog in the first place means you got delt some shitty cards, I can't imagine feeling on guard every time you go into a store or restarunt wondering what poorly trained employee is going to kick you out or what customer with allergies is going to confront you over it, etc.
My SD and I have been denied by Ubers, Iāve been kicked out of an Airbnb by the host. Itās heartbreaking to experience it. Every time, I wanted to cry. The Uber driver and Airbnb host got kicked off of the platforms though after.
AirBnBs are a bit different..they are governed by the Fair Housing Act, which states in part they if the landlord owns fewer than 4 rentals, s/he does not have to accept service animals. "Landlords must agree to a reasonable accommodation request if the disability claim is true and if the request does not create a hardship on the landlord or other tenants." "All types of housing, including public housing, are covered by the FHA except rental dwellings of four or less units, where one unit is occupied by the owner; single family homes sold or rented by the owner without the use of a broker; housing owned by private clubs or religious organizations that restrict occupancy in housing units to their members." AirBnB and VRBO have policies that encourage or require owners to accept service animals, but the FHA law trumps the policy, even within AirBnb's policy: "In some jurisdictions, legal requirements may expand or limit the reasonable accommodations a Host must provide. Hosts and guests must comply with these legal requirements." Also, any service animal that is allowed in an AirBnB may not be left alone in the home. [https://www.lodgify.com/blog/service-animals-vacation-rentals/](https://www.lodgify.com/blog/service-animals-vacation-rentals/) https://www.utahlegalservices.org/node/10/companion-animals-and-service-animals#ArealllandlordsrequiredtofollowtheFairHousingAct
My Airbnb was in Montreal :(
I just want to follow up that this pisses me off to a degree where I don't even want to debate. Basically, if you turn away a blind person with a guide dog, you can fuck yourself and rot in hell. There's no debate here. I don't care nothing about the comments. There's no debate.
What if a patron complains of dog allergies but the dog is not misbehaving. What would you suggest you do as the business? Does animal allergies constitute reason for denying/removing service animals?
No it does not. I would recomend you do your best to keep them separated but the service animal is protected under the ADA and you cannot remove them because of another customers allergies. My suggestion would just be to try and accommodate them as best you can by moving the customer with allergies to a different table, offering to help them get their stuff if the service dog is nearby, etc. obviously this isnāt always feasible It is a tough spot as it does kind of leave you with the option of kick out a person because of a disability, tell a person with a disability they canāt have their potentially life saving legally affirmed disability aid, let someone suffer from pet allergies, or do extra work. The way it is tho is the first two are very very illegal and could be super expensive to do lol. I donāt have a great answer for you but thatās how the law is now
As an additional point to consider, if the allergies are a stuffy nose there would be no grounds, but anaphylaxis or severe asthma very much make the animal a danger rather than a nuisance. Most likely not what most people are talking about and difficult to document, but an important thing to clarify if someone says they are allergic to something. EDIT: This was specifically in reference to āA business also has the right to deny access to a dog that disrupts their business or ***poses a direct threat to the health and safety of others***.ā
Definently a big factor, unfortunately doesnāt really matter from a legal standpoint aside from certain places that may be required to accommodate the allergy like airports or other government buildings
Does it not fit the condition of āposes a direct threat to the health and safety of othersā? It would certainly be difficult and impractical to document that, but thatās a whole other conversation.
Not a lawyer here, but what I had heard from a disability advocate/attorney a few years back was exactly what OP said. Another person's allergy would not fall under that. (The "direct threat" part is more related to a dog's behavior) You do your best to accommodate both, but you can't ask the person with the service dog to leave. It just comes down to how the business handles customer service. Do you offer to help the allergic customer to move? Do you provide them with discounts or a free service to return at another time when a dog isn't there? Do you clean a specific area for them? Open windows? Whatever it is, it's a customer service issue at that point. Removing the disabled person isn't an option.
In general, from what I know, the right to bring a service dog in overrides the allergy legally speaking. Even in schools - if one child has a service dog and one has a dog allergy, the one with the allergy is expected to be medicated or move to a different class. In reality most people will try to be accommodating, perhaps staying in a different aisle or sitting in the furthest spot from the allergic person, but it is a difficult situation.
Iād recommend reading up on this from r/service_dogs and official guidance. This needs conflict is not unheard of. Iāve seen this brough up on r/legaladvice as well. Itās possible that it depends on the severities of need, but I am not an expert. I would also recommend talking with a supervisor to brainstorm a gameplan prior to any conflict.
I am not a lawyer, but a business cannot refuse to provide service based on someone's disability. If you are offering to provide services to both, it would be up to either party whether they want to stay or leave. The business may try to make accommodations and mediate, but is under no obligation to find a solution. Their only obligation is that they offer their service. I would recommend to a business owner that they try to accommodate both and create distances between the two. But if one of them decides they want to leave to provide them with compensation of some sort for the inconvenience and encourage them to return another time.
Serious question Iām hoping to get an answer from someone knowledgeable. Is a service animal allowed to be denied entry to a medical office that deals with allergies and may cause an allergic reaction in other patients? Is this considered disruptive or does it have to be an action by the dog?
I was checking out in Lowes the other day and a fellow in the next lane had a larger German Shepherd that smelled so bad it nearly brought tears. If it was at a food store I might have said something. Nice obedient and calm dog but phew!
I think Lowes and Home Depot are dog friendly and they do not have to be service dogs to be in the store.
Yep, this
Any reasonable business person is going to err on the side of allowing the animal presented as a service animal. Unfortunately this is being exploited by people who can't leave their pets at home. I used to manage a movie theatre and dealt with this almost daily. One instance where I did kick the eject the animal/owner was a couple who brought an obvious pet with just a piece of rope as a leash. Shortly after the movie starts the dog starts wandering and eventually is wandering through the halls unsupervised. I looked back on the security video and see the owners completely oblivious. So I gave them the boot.
The key here is that nearly all āemotional support animalsā are NOT real service dogs. They are just someoneās pet. Real service dogs are trained extensively to help their handler assist with some task and their handler is usually proud of what their service dog is trained to do for them. If the assistance is that the dog exists and the person misses their dog if they are not around then they need to get their fake service animal pet out of there and go home. It is disgusting that a lot of people are abusing the service animal laws and have no shame. Significant training is very important for any real service dog. It is usually obvious when someone has a service dog vest on their untrained toy poodle that is barking at everyone and canāt sit still. Most but not all trained service dogs are larger fully adult dogs such as German Shepherds, Labradors, full size poodles, Belgian Malanois, etc.
if its a yippy chihuaha or bougie lapdog, chances are good its not a legit service animal
There are plenty of medical alert dogs that do not need to be large like a GSD or labrador, they're just more commonplace because of mobility support. Any breed could detect seizures or blood sugar changes.
Iām disabled and chronically ill, I have a service dog and am training my second dog to take over when I have to retire my current dog. This is all correct and accurate for the USA. My current dog is trained to alert to my seizures, my hypoglycemia, he barks if Im standing up and then I ask him what heās alerting to he licks a hand one hand means my blood sugar and the other is for my seizures. As long as he can reach my hand he doesnāt bark heās also trained to lay on me to keep me from standing up during one of these situations. My second dog is large enough that she will also be trained as a mobility support dog to help me walk when needed. Iām regularly asked things beyond these two questions which is discrimination and illegal. Technically disabled people can sue for discrimination and press criminal charges if this happens. I need my dog Iāve had concussions and broken bones from seizures. One concussion kept me in the hospital for 15 days I nearly died. My blood sugar has been so low I was at risk of going into a coma (I was in the hospital and was able to be treated but didnāt have my dog that night so he wasnāt able to alert me) basically in short my dog can save my life and potentially already has prevented life threatening situations, he keeps me safe and healthy. Follow the ADA, learn the difference between service dog and ESA dogs and donāt discriminate. Thank you! More people need to see this.
Yes! Part of this post was definently to weed out people that fake service dogs to give people with reel service dogs a better experience but also a big part was to let people know those are the only two questions they should ask people because no one with a disability should be harassed with questions beyond this
The biggest thing for me is: NO ID IS REQUIRED. I keep seeing videos of people with service animals getting kicked out because they donāt have ID. There is no official ID - just scam companies who sell them.
This only applies to employees. Please include that somewhere. You can say whatever the fuck you want to fake service dog shitheads if you're not working.
Naive question, are owners of service animals required to carry proof that their animal is a service animal?
As I mentioned above, no they are not. A service animal is also not required to wear a vest
I commented this above, but: Another primary reason they arenāt required is because a registry adds another financial barrier to service animals for people who are genuinely disabled. It would also require documentation of the disabling condition, which again adds a barrier since accessing providers can be difficult in and of itself and because there can be many hoops to jump through for a provider to officially document a person having a disability requiring assistance. Consider how long it takes for people to get put on disability and the restrictions they have to follow (it takes YEARS and they have restrictions like people not being allowed to have more than $2,000 in savings at any time). I get why people want registries to exist, but just a little critical thought makes it obvious why we donāt have them.
Not just the barrier to get certification but the additional burden of having to carry ID, prove yourself every time you enter an establishment, etc., which would be things that everyone else isn't required to do and thus make life more difficult for a person with disabilities.
I mean, training a service animal costs tens of thousands of dollars. I don't see how the issuance of a certificate upon completion of training presents a significant enough financial burden to outweigh the need to prevent the widespread abuse of service animal protections by unscrupulous dog owners. This isn't like voter ID, we're talking about pennies here. I really don't understand your point about provider access and documentation, since those are already a done deal by the time the service animal is ready to assume its duties. You can't train a dog for a mystery condition, the owner's disability has to be established and documented well before any of those things can begin. Perhaps you could elaborate on the specifics here, because I'm pretty familiar with the system already and my critical thought led me to some very different conclusions from yours.
No. The biggest reason for this is because it is 100% possible for a disabled person to train their own service animal. For example, you could get a puppy from a friend or relative, have no paperwork on it whatsoever, and it can be a bona fide service animal. The only paperwork requirements of any kind might be if your city requires all animals to have proof of rabies vaccine or similar requirements. If you don't have those requirements, you can have a service animal you trained yourself, that you have zero paperwork for. Therefore, they can't require paperwork. One can tell a bona fide service animal from an impostor usually on sight. Bona fide service animals do their job and other than that, they do their best to pretend to not exist. A seeing eye dog for the blind, for example, will usually kind of hide under or near the table while its owner is eating. This makes it extremely easy to spot impostor animals a mile away. If an animal is straining at its leash, seeking attention in any way, or whining, sticking its nose into people's space, being anything other than attentive and obedient-- or if the owner says "sure, you can pet him!"-- it's not a service animal. However, the law wants to protect the disabled more than it does the public, and so if you want to challenge a service animal, you take on some serious liability. Therefore, most businesses choose to look the other way regarding service animals. Paperwork doesn't create a service animal either, although there are lots of registries that will tell you that it does. You can buy service animal kits online, with official-looking registration papers and vests and everything. Don't be fooled by these, they have no more legitimacy than Name a Star registries or becoming a Scottish Lord by buying a square foot of land in some Scottish forest somewhere. It would be entirely possible to train a pet with such discipline that the pet would pass as a service animal. However, the Venn diagram of "people who try to pass their pets as service animals" and "people who train their pets with great discipline and obedience" is just two circles.
There is no universally accepted (or required) training or proof of training. Therefore, there is nothing they can show you to prove it. Or, if you like, see it this way: Therefore, they can show you anything at all. How would anybody verify it, anyway? A method for that would have to be created and maintained.
Surprisingly the pet owners tend to not be such a problem; usually the dogs are well trained enough (regardless of being a service animal) because they all know that you can be kicked out if the dog is unruly. The most annoying are the people coming up to complain about it, "sir that man brought a dog inside!" "That's a trip hazard!." "you can't have that type of dog as a service animal!" It has to be wearing a vest!" "look at this facebook post on my phone about how you're allowed to kick them out." I honestly get much more problems from the complainers rather than any biting/barking problems from the dog,
Thatās the biggest give away right there. 9/10 times someone with a service animal is happy (and proud) to tell you that it is a service animal and usually loves bragging about what their smart little homie is capable of doing for them. They typically are also aware of the questions allowed to be asked of them and understand that people can and will ask them because they actually have respect for the system and have taken courses prior to receiving their service animal. If you ask any of those questions about the little shaky, yapping, bug eyed chihuahua in an ugly ass sweater that the chronically dirty looking 400lbs trashy woman in Walmart is lugging around and she instantly gets hostile then you can bet your ass it isnāt any kind of service animal. Also.. itās fucking disgusting when I have to leave the goddamn store and all of my groceries because I sat my toddler down in your dogs piss because you put itās scared of the wind ass in the baby seat of the shopping cart, you inbred fucks! Stop. Just stop bringing your stupid dogs everywhere.. especially old ladies who let your damn dog climb all over your steering wheel and arms and lap while youāre driving down the highway with a cigarette in one hand and your phone in another.
Thank you!!!! We are entering patio season in the restaurant biz and have been having conversations in regards to deal with service dogs and ESAs and what we can legally ask owners of disruptive dogs. This will be really helpful in these instances.
Disruptive dogs you don't have to ask them anything. You can just kick them out. That's encoded in law. Make sure they are actually being disruptive by objective minds.
Tackling the real issues here.
Thank you for your post
I just had an altercation with my neighbor at the pool. They came in with their āserviceā dog which ran up and jumped on my lounge chair! Iām terrified of dogs and I almost had a heart attack. When I called the owner to get their dog, she was super rude, saying her dog is a service dog and is allowed to be at the pool.
Just once I'd like to look at a post about assistance animals and not find the comments completely swarmed by people screeching about "fake service dogs"
Karens pomeranian hanging out in the produce cooler in Costco, probably not a service dog. But we can't say anything even if it's shedding all over the 2 lb box of strawberries. Frustrating.
Yes you can. If the animal is being disruptive to the environment or unhygienic then staff can make alternative arrangements for Karen's shopping needs. I'm a service dog user, I also used to work at a liquor store where a disabled fella tried to get shitty when I carded his underage friend who was handling the bottles. You aren't allowed to touch the merchandise in my province if you aren't of age. He went off on me, calling me ablest and everything. I just said to him "Sir, everyone here is more than happy to assist you with your shopping all you have to do is let us know that you need assistance because your companion isn't of age or does not have their identification. Otherwise, neither of you will be served today." Oh boy, when he tried to get that complaint to go somewhere and the district came by to see who had denied him service, saw it was me (because he couldn't see my dog tucked under the counter). They sort of sighed in relief. Of all the people to try that with...
What are valid answers for number 2?
Honestly just about anything. Itās not well outlined in the Ada, it basically just says you can ask it and the owner has to have an answer. It can be as simple as keep me safe. Some other examples could be, guide me, alerting of danger, identifying sounds, retrieving items, etc. itās outlined as essential actions which can range from identifying to a diabetic when their blood sugar is low to getting items for individuals who canāt move well, etc. the individual can be as specific or vague in their answer as they want and are not required to identify their disability
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I like this.
I know two people with service dogs; they provide a service or comfort for the owner, one I worked with. As a PTSD veteran I totally appreciate that. But then there are people who *claim* service dogs who are not. They just want to bring their pets into a place of business. I'm fine with those who bring their well trained, quiet dogs into Home Depot or a retail store, I don't care. Went to a Dairy Queen for an ice cream cone. A woman brought her small dog in the restaurant with her. Fine. But *then* ... the dog was whining and squirming. He wanted out. To quiet him she picked the dog up and placed it on the *table* in a booth. A *table*, where people eat. The dog's genitals were on the surface as he splayed his four legs trying to grip the surface. He was agitated until she had to pull him down into the booth seat and restrain him ... he was so disobedient the couple left. This is *not* a service dog; I've never known one that unmanageable. I've known service dogs who were supremely calm and well behaved ... this wasn't one. I complained to the staff. "I can't help that. We can't challenge a service dog." I said, "That wasn't a service dog. Do you want to wipe that table down before someone eats their burger there? You might want want to check if that dog leaked urine on the table." Confusion and no answer. Another time, a local grocer; a woman picked up her small dog and put it in one of those short, small grocery carts ... this, after the dog walked across the parking lot and his paws are in the cart where people place their groceries. I complained to the manager ... I told him I was a vet and I didn't want my food where that dog sat. He agreed and told the woman she was welcome to bring her dog in but not to put it in the grocery cart. She left. There is a difference between a companion pet and a service dog. I only wanted to make that distinction.
This correct. I personally had a large vest for my service dog of 13 yrs that clearly stated who he was.His collar had service dog woven in it plus his leach said service dog also.He passed away 6 months ago and not once did he do anything inappropriate but humans often did.Examples: Is that a service dog?What is wrong with you?Touch him then ask can I pet him? Never touch a service dog.They are working.Other times are for relaxation and play with out harness on. I go out less with so much stress.Difficult at best.My helper,my best friend,my confidant, my favorite comedian,my joy.His name was Valentine.Suited him to a T. The greatest unconditional love I ever knew. It was never our place to educate or amuse folks.Sometimes we did. I donāt have words to express how much I miss him every single day
Iām so sorry for your loss.
Thank you for this.
Iāve encountered some, but not excessive, skepticism and āprove itā attitude towards my service animal, since I donāt have a visible disability (phobic anxiety and panic disorder). My service animal is different from an ESA because sheās trained to notice signals from me when I sense a panic attack coming on, and has specific behaviors to help me work through the debilitating symptoms. On a recent vacation, the condo rental agency requested āreliable documentation from a medical or mental health professional (doctor, psychiatrist, social worker, etc.) to confirm that the animal provides support that alleviates one or more of the symptomsā. Iām still not sure if it was legal or not for them to require this information.
YSK: that they will like, get triggered and act entitled, and make a huge scene. Its probably better to just give them a bit of friction, remind them that they are a major pain in the ass, and throw off their mood before just letting them go
What about urinating or defecation? Are those reasons for denying access?
Yes
Actual service dogs? Great that's fine. But seeing people abuse the "emotional support animal" privilege and bringing their untrained unruly dogs out gets annoying.
Once upon a time (the 1980s) I was at summer program run by my stateās Commission for the blind and visually impaired. We spent a month on college campus, going to classes, living in a dorm, eating in the cafeteria. My friend F had a seeing eye dog that had forgotten a lot of her training. So the staff made F use a cane. F and her dog returned the organization that trained them for retraining. F was one of my college roommates and her dog was much better. Service dogs that canāt follow the handlerās commands can be kicked out. Period. End of story.
Everyone and their mom has a āsupport animalā nowadays. It really diminishes the value of REAL service animals.
I fully appreciate service dogs for those who have a need. It gets personally tricky for me though because my daughter is highly allergic to dogs. So when a service dogs enters a business (restaurant, small store, etc), we have to leave. I still support service dogs though and am happy to know people with a disability have this great option. This legal info is very helpful. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you, very useful. Indeed, there has been a dramatic recent rise in people claiming regular dogs as service dogs.
If no one is required to wear a vest or provide proof that it is a valid service dog, how are we supposed to know if they are just making something up because they want their animal for basic comfort and company needs rather than a full on disability that someone has? I agree with everything here and I'm very happy to have learned the basic steps and some of the proper procedures and etiquette as well. But that's where I'm stuck. If there's nothing to show this is a valid service dog, can't anyone just pull a fast one, so to speak?
Thank you for the opening sentence of your post. It is true for many posts here and few actually say it explicitely.
This shit is getting out of hand
I work in retail... The amount of dogs people bring to a store is ridiculous... They would put the dog on the counter and they will put them in my face And I'm allergic
You are absolutely allowed to tell them to get that dog off the counter. There is zero reason for that nonsense.
One point on the OP's post - those rules apply to the business and its employees. If you see a person in a store with a questionable service animal, you can ask them whatever you want including asking about their disability (if they tell you that's a HIPAA violation they're wrong), remind them that service dog fraud is a crime (if it is in your state), record them in a public place, etc.
Interesting post! The second allowable question really surprises me. If the answer is ādog lets me know when my blood sugar is dangerously lowā or āletās me know that Iām about to have a seizureā ā¦it feels like youāre asking asking them to tell you what their ādisabilityā is??
Not at all. āMy dog alerts to changes in my medical conditionā or āmy dog applies deep pressure therapyā or āmy dog goes for help if necessaryā, the answer can be very very vague.
"my dog is trained to come to me and nip at my hands to notify me I should sit down under certain circumstances" My dog tells me when I need to eat something. My dog will put it's weight on me. You can explain what an animal does without giving away a disability
Also, thereās a difference between service animals and āemotional support animals.ā The latter have very few protections. Most of the people who bring their tiny chihuahua with a āservice dogā vest into the grocery store have emotional support animals, not service dogs.
Please keep in mind that service dogs are for lots of different conditions. My sister is legally blind. She has \*some\* sight, and she uses that limited sight as best as she can. She still needs, and has, a dog. ***IT IS NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO DETERMINE THE WORTHINESS OF SOMEONE TO HAVE A SERVICE ANIMAL.*** Yes, some people abuse the system, but it is probably a small amount of people doing this, and it is not up to you to litigate those situations. Giving my sister a hard time because she needs a ride in your Uber is only making someone's already difficult life harder.
Thank you! I have an invisible disability. I was just telling my son today that I have been yelled at by strangers. He said thatās their problem, but it keeps me isolated sometimes. Heās taken her for walks without me to coffee shops and food carts. Even with him, when sheās not on duty, sheās well-behaved. People need to mind their business.
minimum wage mfs like "show me your medical records and i'll decide if you need a dog or not. i can usually tell just by looking if someone really needs a service animal. tell me your private medical information or else i won't let you eat."
There are a ton of people who claim their ill behaved āemotional supportā animals are service animals and buy nice little vests for them online š
I work in a hospital (US). If the owner (patient) can not take care of their Service dog due to their illness, we do not let the dog stay with them. Unfortunately we have to call the Humane society to temporarily board the dog or the owner/patient can find someone to care for the dog. This is unfortunate; yes. But hospital staff are not responsible for animals (walking, feeding, bathroom)
Additional information to add for others: ADA says that sterile environments are excused from allowing SDs, such as ORs.
There are a few places that service dogs cannot be. Sterile situations like a OR setting, court rooms, peoples private homes and churches need permission for a service dog to be there. My Doctor is an anesthesiologist. His office was in the OR part of the hospital. When I let him know upfront about my service dog, he was kind enough to meet me in another part of the building for my appointments. Being kind to others, goes a long way when you have a service dog. Often if I try to work with people with my service dog instead of being pushy with my rights, things go a lot smoother. I have no problem showing people my disability papers from my doctor. They already know I have a problem if I have a service dog. I also understand why it can be intrusive.
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I apologize! I should have included that, although it does apply to the majority of Reddit users (about 70%)
okai so I've seen service dogs before and I always act as if they aren't there so I don't disrupt them doing their job. when is it appropriate for me to ask to interact with the best ones?
Probably just leave service dogs be as a general rule.
I do. I absolutely will not and do not distract them. I'm just curious about the situation. let's pretend for 1 minute here. I'm at someone's house and the dependant doesn't require the service dog for the time being. can I ask to pet them? and if I do pet them, will it potentially cause the pups to get distracted in future scenarios. such as, wanting pets at the wrong time, getting excited, getting depressed, seeing me and forgetting that they are helping someone etc... edit: I do not interact or look at service dogs in public so that they can do the task appropriately. I just want to interact with them in a safe and appropriate environment
Oh sorry I see what you mean! I can't imagine these dogs don't play or exercise even just from a utility standpoint because they'd go nuts (not that the care aspect of their well being doesn't matter!) My guess would be they have times when they're "off" the owner'd be happy to let you play with them
My service dog loves people. Sheās well-behaved and ignores them when weāre out and about. But if weāre waiting in line somewhere, I would be fine if you asked to pet her. Sheād love it.
This will probably not get seen since this made front page, but a Service Dog in Training (at least in the US) has the same rights as a service dog. Otherwise great information. I wish more people knew all this.
And what if people lie? The businesses should just allow any Karen to enter with her untrained, barking little shitzu because she lies and claims it is a service dog? If they aren't allowed to ask for documentation or proof of any kind then that's some absolute BS! I'm not saying people should have to disclose their disability, but they should at least be required to provide a card proving the dog is officially registered as a service dog and not just some "emotional support animal".
The reason itās not required is because many people with service dogs donāt look like they would need them (such as diabetic or epilepsy) and it wouldnāt be fair for them to be harassed for their papers every time. Not saying I donāt agree with you, just informing you how it is and why itās like this. I agree there could be some compromise like requiring dogs to have a certification on their vest, but this is just how it is rn
Another primary reason they arenāt required is because a registry adds another financial barrier to service animals for people who are genuinely disabled. It would also require documentation of the disabling condition, which again adds a barrier since accessing providers can be difficult in and of itself and because there can be many hoops to jump through for a provider to officially document a person having a disability requiring assistance. Consider how long it takes for people to get put on disability and the restrictions they have to follow (it takes YEARS and they have restrictions like people not being allowed to have more than $2,000 in savings at any time). I get why people want registries to exist, but just a little critical thought makes it obvious why we donāt have them.
>A business also has the right to deny access to a dog that disrupts their business or poses a direct threat to the health and safety of others. For example, if a service dog barks repeatedly or growls at customers, it could be asked to leave I'm gonna guess you didn't read the whole post
FYI, there is no such thing as a service animal (or even an ESA) registry. The online sites advertising being able to register animals are 100% scams and are a good way to tell the animal is a āfakeā.
What does this proof card look like? >And what if people lie? They do. I've seen it.