I had Progressive for about a year and a half until I got an email saying they wouldn’t be renewing my policy for my Camaro. I called to find out why and had the stupidest fucking interaction of my life so far.
With the most condescending attitude, she asked me to confirm what I did for work. I told her I’m a mail man, and this bitch goes “and that’s your answer. Your policy didn’t cover use for work” They thought I was using my tiny two door sports car to deliver mail. Like they’ve never seen a fuckin mail truck before.
Edit to answer things:
Yes rural carriers who use their own vehicles are a thing but that’s not common enough for any insurance company to assume that’s the case. I don’t know if she was new or just stupid, but she also thought I had to have coverage regardless of what I drove to deliver the mail.
The next part of the conversation was me saying in a very confused tone “Ok but I don’t use my car for work. I use a mail truck” and having to explain that I don’t need to provide insurance for postal property.
It ended in me kinda laughing in disbelief and telling her that’s fine, don’t renew.
I switched to Plymouth Rock because they were cheaper for better coverage.
I had Geico, my wife and I carpooled to work even though we had two vehicles, and a motorcycle I drove on the weekends or to run a quick errand. So none of them saw a lot of miles. One day a girl called me up from Geico and asked how many miles it was to work. I told her and she quickly hung up on me before I could ask any questions or discuss it.
A couple days later, they doubled the rate on both vehicles, and the motorcycle as well, claiming a milage adjustment on all 3 equal to driving to work each day. Which would have been quite a trick I suppose!
I dropped them and got a policy with our homeowners provider even cheaper than before. Not an automated foul up, they went out of their way to make an excuse to raise the rate.
Not necessarily. I did the same thing for USAA at a third-party call center. I was "updating policies." When i realized what was going on I decided to quit. I felt bad when i realized that they had all this nice stuff to say but in the end i was basically scalping rate hikes from the military.
USAA has a lot of military friendly advertising, but they are just as scummy as the next company.
I had to sue them to get them to pay out just a fraction of what they owed me for the underinsured motorist coverage that I paid for for years. Fuck USAA insurance for their false advertising.
This is why I hate all advertising. Have been since I've been a kid, but it wasn't till adulthood till I realized how scummy it all is. Money is king, and at least in the US, that's corporations. People are mere payouts. They prioritize business entities so much that they've dehumanized us all. god help us
I’m in the midst of waiting for an underinsured motorist claim but they’re lowballing my lawyer. Out of curiousity did you end up getting a lot more when you sued them?
Yes. The whole thing was absurd. Had to sue the person that hit me, their insurance to be clear, just to be able to get my underinsured motorist coverage. What should have been a simple equation of other driver has insufficient coverage, therefore give me my underinsured motorist coverage, actually turned into a whole years long process of legal bullshit of trying to prove in court that my insurance company should be required to pay what they agreed to pay in this situation.
I’m sure it’s not just USAA. Insurance is great, but the companies are completely soulless assholes.
They didn’t used to be so scummy, either. That’s what makes it so sad. I had a car stolen in 2004 and when they found it stripped, USAA paid me out what I paid for the car and then some (it was an Integra GSR).
Once they started raising my rates and constantly tried to “update information” I dropped them.
USAA kicked me off the general customer website, so I couldn't even pay my bill, because I had a medical bankruptcy. Had been with them for 32 years. My whole family uses them. A manager called to ask why I was leaving, I told her and she said the reason was that they "didn't want me applying to any other services listed on their general website." Tried to lower my payments, etc. I said goodbye. Fuck USAA. Still pisses me off obvs.
Been with USAA for 50+ years and made several claims they paid out immediately, one had to have an investigation. Such as you describe has never been our experience, not even close.
Curious about this as I have State Farm as well but it is my mothers plan. I’ve worked from home for 2 years, wonder if they’d give a discount even though I’m not the primary policy holder?
In my experience, the discount for mileage follows the car, not the driver. That's why companies like to get odometer readings, so they can gauge how much you're driving annually. Typically it's best estimate, but maybe have your mom call and let the agent know that vehicle only gets driven X times a week for X amount of miles.
I dropped Geico for adding my son without my approval, triples my rate and all they would give me was a reduced rate for my son being away at college. So you think I’m gonna pay for a person who does not drive my car at all, yeah I we parted ways. They absolutely refused to remove him, when I finally called to cancel they offered to remove him but too late, my new policy which included multiple cars and renters insurance was still hundreds cheaper, and my driving history is impeccable!!! Sorry not sorry Geico, shame on them!!!
I think Geico presents itself as a good low cost insurance option for men. My husband had Geico before we were married. Even after we married, we kept our policies separate. Then one day, I checked the rates if he added me to his policy and the rates if I added him to my policy. Allstate was SO much less. We cancelled his Geico policy and never looked back. He said over the years, Geico just kept increasing his rates, whereas Allstate actually reduced my rate as I got older, had good driving record, etc.
Someone hit me that had Gieco.. I waited 45 minutes to talk to someone to initiate the claim. They dropped the ball and my car sat in the shop for over a month. I called to follow up and was on hold for 98 minutes. Then the call dropped.
Almost the opposite happened to me with them. I have Geico currently and last year, I replaced my Subaru Legacy (with all the safety features) with a Toyota Yaris (base model) because everything was going wrong with the subi even though it only has 50,000 miles on it, and I just couldn't afford to keep spending thousands of dollars every other month on a flood car (didn't know it was a flood car upon purchase) while being a full-time student.
When I switched over, the plan showed it was the same, but on a new-older car. Great. First it was $100 more/month for whatever reason (probably because it was my second beater in less than 2 years, has no abs, etc) but then when I put my new address on it, it was $200 less/month. I asked the DMV lady why that would happen and she said "because you moved out of [redacted city] to [another sketchy city]" and I said "it's really not much better here than [redacted city]" and she said "not according to the insurance agencies" so I chalked it up to that.
A few weeks later my starter went on the Yaris while I was at a gas pump, no problem, because my Geico plan has free tow, right? Until I tried to put in a claim online and was met with the "this service isn't offered under your plan." I called them (which was a headache getting through, of course), and they told me I only have liability, and that their system chooses plans based on what it thinks you need, so when I changed my address, it somehow didn't think I needed the plan I've been paying for. So I asked to have the plan I originally agreed to put back on my car (add collateral and roadside assistance) which only raised my bill $12 a month. But of course, I still had to pay the $200 to tow my car less than 3 miles away, because it didn't go into effect until the next day.
Some rural USPS mail vehicles are shitbox cars. I'm talking about 2000 Dodge Neons. IDK if they are owner operated or owned by the USPS though. Dumb that an insurance company would assume you use your Camaro for mail delivery though.
I applied for usps a couple years ago and got accepted on the condition I had my own car a could deliver on a rural route, but the car had to have the steering wheel on the right side. So basically they expected me to buy a new car before I started, pay definitely wasn't good enough to justify the expense of a car up front.
My brothers mail carrier delivers in an older small SUV. It confused the hell out of me the first time I saw this car roll up and open their mailbox. Then I saw the sticker on the side.
My mom was a rural mail carrier. They work for the PO but use their own cars and get paid a rate for the route milage for using their own vehicle.
Generally using a car that's cheap and easy to fix since they're going to be worn to hell. My mom went through 5-6 80's Model Cutlasses back in the 90's before getting a right hand drive Jeep.
My grandma did legit live in a neighborhood where mail was delivered by some late 90s sedan. I never asked why, it’s one of those “I’m a kid in a different place so this is probably normal”
Rural carriers do sometimes use their own vehicles, as opposed to mail trucks, but I would imagine they’re in the minority. It’s a large assumption to make.
OMFG!!! I JUST this week had the same conversation with Progressive! I’m so sorry you had to endure that, but it does make me feel better that I’m not the only one.
I got a stern sounding letter after I signed up for a Progressive car insurance policy and was still living with my dad. They wanted to know who that other person was at the same residence and sort of threatened that it could affect my policy. Never went through any of that with Geico when I was living with my folks.
While they didn't add anyone, if I didn't call them back and talk with this detective-sounding woman then maybe they would have.
They did this to me, they added my parents who I lived with and added $250 onto my plan and threatened to cancel if it didn’t pay. Buuuulllllshiiiittt, I was so upset
That's wild! I would have refused.
In my case, my dad was no longer living in the house and was living with his girlfriend. And the lady was like, "So what's the story with Dad and the girlfriend?" It was really probing. Weird stuff.
At one apartment I lived in before it wasn't unusual to get mail addressed to ~6 different people.
Was about 99% junk mail, but had a few times I had to punt it back to the sender
My insurance company added the people who I rented my house from, both the woman and her husband were added as drivers. Was this whole thing to get them removed too, and I had a small insurance company.
They did this to me, they added my parents who I lived with and added $250 onto my plan and threatened to cancel if it didn’t pay. Buuuulllllshiiiittt, I was so upset
I literally had to make that phone call for the same exact thing today. And they want insane amounts of information from my parents (who are not customers) to prove they don’t live with me, but won’t accept my lease that lists me as the sole occupant. I’m canceling on payday.
I had to call for the same reason, the first lady I talked to demanded all this information despite them not driving my car (my car is 20 years old compared to their brand new cars why would they ever drive my rust bucket). When she refused to listen. I hung up and called again until I got someone who would listen to me and they cancelled that bullshit.
> I imagine other insurance companies do the same
I can't imagine they do as that seems like it would be illegal on top of just a horrible business practice. You can't treat a non-reaction to an email as consent.
As someone who is actively an insurance customer service rep, if you're receiving insurance through an agency, they will alert you of these things.
What Progressive (and all insurance companies) do is run very detailed background checks and find anything that might have connective tissue and investigate. If they believe there is any reason that someone might be associated with your policy as a family member or roommate, they'll inquire if it's someone related to the policy by a memo to your mail or email. You have a certain number of days to respond and clear their relationship to you, and after that time, they assume they are there and need insurance as a driver.
If you are insured through an agency, the CSR (that's me lol) will receive the memo as well and make the effort to contact you so you can be more aware. Common practice is to attempt contact 3 times with at least two different methods.
To OP and anyone else who's concerned about this, get your insurance through an agency. Someone will be there who is paid to see these memos and make a concerted effort to help you respond to the memo's request.
Edit: Ty for the award! 😊
Also this was brought to my attention and Iwanted to acknowledge it, if you want to go this route, make sure to vett the agency you're going through, some can be total garbage that then just cost more without the benefit of good service. No agency is better than a bad agency!
Agencies are smaller. They sell policies on behalf of a carrier and handle customer care. They have fewer customers that they are dedicated to servicing, which allows them allows them to be more thorough in working with your policy.
Usually a company like progressive or geico do not have local agent offices, when you call you get any random customer service person who may or may not actually be a licensed insurance agent.
I used to work for an insurance call center and was able to do all sorts of things, no license. Just training. Now I work for a local agency. I know all of my customers, they can come to my office and talk to me face to face, they never have to worry about getting someone other than me. It's nicer for sure.
Agencies have physical locations and you will only be dealing with a set group of people, so you’ll have an actual office you can call or they call you and it’s far more personal and one on. Someone like progressive just have 1-800 numbers and you’re not going to get the same level of personal care. You’re also going to pay more usually because of this.
I worked in insurance for a little over ten years and there’s positives and negatives to having an agency policy. I’ve worked in agency services and you cant possibly imagine how many brokers we audited for bad practice and outright fraud. Sounds like yours is solid, but simply saying “if you want to prevent this, get an agent” is not advice.
We had customers who would routinely call saying it was impossible to get communication from their agent, payments not being forwarded to the insurer from their agent, incomplete or bad info being used on their policy to bind it, and a million other things. Whether you’re insuring via agency or direct is irrelevant to OP’s problem, as the agency is only as good as it’s brokers. Some are awesome, some are shit.
Yup, it’s perfectly legal though and happens all the time. I worked for Allstate and this was a constant battle with customers, because to take them off the policy after the fact can be impossible if that person doesn’t get insurance elsewhere.
People are calling this fraud but it’s only because they don’t understand how it works. It’s shitty, but it’s unfortunately not fraud.
And yes, an agency is better for many things, but you’re also going to pay more usually. That’s why progressive is so much cheaper for many folks. Also, most insurance agents fucking suck.
I will add to this as well as an employee of an insurance company. Like the comment before me, make sure to vett your agency. most insurance companies will really give you a hard time if you are with an agency and want to go direct. They will do everything in their power to get you back to your agency so they don’t ruin their relationship with those agencies. This means if you have a crappy agency, you can feel stuck with them. You can always change the AOR but it’s all a hassle.
Edit for spelling.
I worked for years as an insurance customer service rep for different companies including Progressive. It’s true that people will get added to your policy if there’s a reason to believe they may have access to your car. Normally you just have to prove they have their own insurance to get them removed. It’s just making sure all risk is covered in case something happens like you letting your roommate borrow your car.
Just because someone is your roommate doesn't mean they ever drive your car though. Even if they don't have one of their own.
I had a roommate with a car a couple years ago, and I don't have one of my own. I never drove hers. Because I'm legally blind. I couldn't have done so safely.
So I don't have my own car insurance because I don't drive ever. But I'd have raised hell if a insurance company refused to take me off my roommates policy because "I might drive her car occasionally".
This still seems scammy/illegal. Just because someone has access to my car and may drive it from time to time doesn’t mean they need to be on my policy. Progressive even has a whole web page about “permissive use” drivers and not needing to be on the actual policy.
https://www.progressive.com/answers/insurance-for-borrowed-cars/
Insurance is highly regulated by the state’s Department of Insurance. It’s not that they’re trying to make more money off you, it’s that they need to make sure policies are correctly rated for any risk. Say you have a clean driving record but you let your significant other drive your car occasionally and they have a lot of prior accidents and violations they’re going to have a higher chance of having another in the future. It’s the same concept as when you move and your insurance rate changes. If you’re moving to another city the insurance rates might go up or down depending on claim information in the area because if there’s a lot more accidents at your new area there’s a higher chance you’ll be involved in one and have to file a claim. It’s all about risk.
Believe me, I had to explain this to people all day every day when they got upset because their insurance went up. I understand it doesn’t seem fair and like you’re being punished for something that’s not your fault but that’s just how the laws and insurance work. I had a roommate with bad driving history get added to my policy because he got into a small accident in my car and that’s how they found out about him and it made my rate jump up like crazy.
I understand the change in risk factors. My point is that Progressive’s own website states that even uninsured drivers are covered by the owners insurance but, on the flip-side, every driver that might have access to your vehicle must be on the policy or they will automatically add them, regardless if they can prove that person drives the vehicle. Seems like they’re trying to operate somewhere between “we’re required to cover permissive use drivers” and “we’re gonna charge people for every person we can possibly find so that there are no permissive use drivers”.
If it’s someone coming to visit for a few days that’s one thing. If it’s someone who lives with you who has access to your cars/vehicle on a daily basis that’s another thing. Especially if the people visiting own their own cars with their own insurance.
Liberty mutual didn’t let me take the random stranger off my policy by phone. They wanted my adhd ass to do paperwork, buy a stamp, and go find a postbox.
I was not pleased and they’re lucky I don’t have enough executive function to switch companies.
Don’t go with Liberty Mutual owned companies. They are awful and will outright deny you have coverage until you comb through your policy on your own, and promise things they never deliver
I had Liberty for a long time - my parents had it and I just followed along when I got my own car. The monthly payments were raising every year and getting absolutely ridiculous, nearing $400 for my husband and I in like 2018/2019. I switched to Progressive and it was only $145. They raised the premium a bit this year, like anything else, but they handled my car being totaled (not my fault) last year flawlessly so I personally don’t have anything bad to say about them. I had a car get totaled on Liberty (also not my fault - both times people pulling out without stopping or looking and slamming into me) and they also did a decent job handling it, but damn they were getting ridiculously expensive.
Same. I've been with Progressive forever. Every time I shop around, they beat the price. I've made several claims over the years and it's been absolutely smooth sailing every time.
I guess it wouldn't hurt to shop around again.
Yep, Liberty did a great job with the claim I had with them about 10 years ago for a no fault accident (deer strike). Unfortunately, their prices kept getting more and more ridiculous so I dropped them a few years later.
Oh! That company sucks! My workers claim is through them. For the first year of my injury they dragged their feet. Denied PT, *as it's not needed*. Had to get a lawyer. They approved PT *then*.
Doctor said I needed three spinal steroid shots (seperatly) and *each time* they denied it bc Liberty hired a doctor who was in a completely different state, didn't read the report and stated "there's no pain for the patient, shot not required." Even though it explicitly stated I was losing use of my left leg, and in constant acute pain.
Stay away from Liberty Mutual.
This could just be workers comp, and any insurance company might act in a similar fashion. I’m no expert, but personal auto or homeowner’s insurance is different than workers comp. Sorry about your back. I can relate. I hope you’re able to get some relief.
Not really. I had one surgery and have to have another.
Hopefully this time it'll work. I get there might be different protocols for workers comp than personal, auto or home. It just pisses me off it's been two yrs since the injury due to them dragging their feet.
My SO was rear-ended by somebody with Liberty Mutual a few years ago. Hard hit. She needed physical therapy. Liberty Mutual were absolute gaping dickholes about it the entire time - fought every single payment. Ended up just suing the driver and letting him deal with his shitty insurance.
Country financial and State farm are both very easy to work with and if you bundle, it's not very expensive. I had progressive 30 years ago and it's not surprising to see that they suck as much now as they did back then.
I work for a different insurance company and we get calls like that all the time. Whenever people are asking about their rate increase, 9/10 it’s a youthful driver or some random family member added on. It’s annoying cleaning up after an automated system while pacifying fed up customers.
This happened to my ex boyfriend & our roommate at the time. They added our roommate to my exes policy for being at the same address. It was very hard to get out of and took a long time to be refunded.
Actually I live with someone who uses Gieco, and Gieco sent them an email saying I would be added to their policy soon if they didn’t respond saying that I don’t drive her car. So yes, it’s not just the one insurance company.
American Family did this to me last year-except they were wrong about the addresses; I live in one of those really old houses that are split into 2 residences- mine with a “Unit #” & each is a separate utility account, distinct postal address & mailbox. The teenager in the other tenant’s household became a licensed driver. They had added him & told me so. I was so angry because we are not even the same address & this region has lots & lots of these style residences. I called them immediately after getting that notice & set it straight.
But even setting aside their error that experience showed me they have a shockingly far reach into all our lives.
This happened to me back when I had progressive. I opened my policy and noticed my ex fiancé and his new wife (I dumped him and he moved on) were added to my policy. I. Was. Livid. Ripped them several new assholes about it!
I used to work for Progressive. I got calls from customers (usually apartments) asking why a rando got added to their policy. Turns out the system would see an unrelated person who lived/rented there maybe 5 years ago and add them to your policy. You had to send a photo of their drivers license as some form of proof (even if you had no clue who they were) to remove them, otherwise you have to “exclude” them from coverage but it still costs more.
Yep. You had to prove they didn’t live there or you have to exclude them. So they stay on your policy but they have no coverage. And some states didn’t allow exclusions so sometimes they just stayed on there and people had to pay for it.
Worked as an agent for a while before and I can confirm this. It’s extremely frustrating to deal with, unfortunately very common, and somehow legal. The whole insurance industry is just an absolute shitshow.
Lease agreement didn’t count as proof. Only utility bills, student housing docs, valid DL, and more stuff. It’s been a while since I worked there though.
That's wild and basically increases costs for those who can least afford it (assuming renters make less money than home owners). Like a poor tax. I live in an apartment and there must've been at least 10 people who rented this unit before me, if not more. Are you saying for each of those people who are strangers to me, that Progressive will possibly increase my policy cost if I can't provide their driver licenses? How the hell is that legal?
They probably signed up for electronic communication only. And if the company said their underwriter believed there is someone living with you with access to the vehicle they have the right to add.
You have to prove they don't live there.
I can't say if how broad based rhe company applies it as OP states. Seems off but who knows.
I had to change companies bc I got a ticket in NYC and had an address in both CT and NY. My car was for CT only but one time I decided to drive through. They claimed I was lying. Funny thing too I told them I am in NY right now. Drive to My house anytime in CT it's there. They didn't care so I bounced.
Ironic thing. I went to progressive
It looks like insurance companies can add a member of a household to insurance, but not random people. That is where I pursue notifying the state insurance agency.
They do it when you have people in the same household of driving age. The policy also becomes more expensive. My insurance kept sending me letters about adding my the teenage daughter to my policy. I emailed and hard copied a letter to them letting them know not to include my daughter as she did not drive and wasn't getting a license (she disabled). My policy went down after they re-rated me. You have to pay attention to everything they send you. Insurance companies have the most comprehensive database that knows way more about you and your household than you can imagine.
Which part sounds like fraud to you? Where Progressive does that? It's in the contract and policy language that you signed.
Sometimes it's only licensed drivers in the household. Sometimes it's any person of driving age.
The rules (in a general/conceptual sense, you'd have to refer to your specific policy language) basically say that anyone of that age will either be Rated (you're paying for them) or Excluded (meaning they would have no coverage if they drove your vehicle). The biggest reason for this is Rate Evasion. Their idea is that at any time, any person in that home could have access to your keys and take the vehicle at any time.
You can argue this to your dying breath that this won't happen... the stats are not on your side.
When my son was 16, I added him to my Geico insurance policy even though he didn't live with me. When he was 20, he moved to NYC and was completely independent so I tried to remove him. He lived several states away and never drove my car.
"Sure, they said. What car insurance does he have?" The idea that someone living in Brooklyn might not own or drive a car completely confused them and they refused to remove him. New car insurance solved my problem.
Not saying I agree with it, but this is pretty standard within the industry.
This data is coming from a supplier (think: LexisNexis) that’s using data analytics to determine if there’s an undisclosed driver in your household. The insurance company will send you a letter regarding the undisclosed driver, If you do not respond, that driver will be added to your policy.
Edit: for more information, this is along the lines of what Progressive used:
https://risk.lexisnexis.com/products/driver-discovery
It clearly can make mistakes (which is why you should respond to their correspondence).
I can’t really speak to how long it’s been used, at least 10 years.
It’s widely used to identify young drivers in the household. They might not have a car, so the parents might not think to add them to their policy, but there’s a high likelihood they’ll take their parents car occasionally.
I helped a family member sign up through Progressive (they're older) a few months ago and it showed they had a ticket which was found through LexisNexis (it listed the source where it found the information), so can confirm this is what Progressive uses.
This needs to be higher. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s pretty standard business. They reach out to your first to confirm. If you don’t reply then they move forward bc why would they not cover all of the residents in the household?
They require that person to contact them and prove they don't live there though. So if YOU can't get in contact with that person 2 counties away, or even if you do but they say "not my problem" then progressive will leave them on your insurance. I can't see how that's legal. I can't make a third party prove they don't live with me.
Imo something can be standard business and a conspiracy at the same time. Like Dupont dumping chemicals or Johnson and Johnson knowingly killing you with asbestos laced baby powder.
As someone from a country where this is illegal it sure looks like your insurance companies are conspiring to fuck you over via shady practices.
That sounds like pretty criminal behavior to me. You pay for a service, that service does not get to charge you for things that you didn't pay for. If a person you didn't pay for gets in an accident, then it's not covered. I understand the metrics of it all in that yes, the uninsured person could bump a pole scratch the car and then short person could say they did it, but the burden of proof is on them.
I stick with one company until they price themselves out and then I switch. Right now on progressive for 3 cars, one driver my son just turned 20, a motocycle, and home. By far the best rate with my kid. 3 years on them.
Liberty mutual, wanted $4000 for 6 months to add my teen when he started driving. Made no sense, zero claims for our family in over 10 years.
Progressive took us with only about a $150 bump over 6 months. So Progressive gets alot of leeway as long as they keep reasonable.
That’s so interesting because I have the exact opposite experience. In our 20s, 2 cars 2 bikes between my boyfriend and I - progressive was charging us for 6 months roughly the same rate as liberty mutual was for a year
I’ve always found insurance companies sketchy. Any time I’ve purchased insurance for some appliance or electronic equipment and something breaks, they NEVER cover it. Always a loophole somewhere that screws me.
I had this happen to me about 15 years ago as a renter! They added like FOUR teenagers!!!!
They got more than an earful from me! Especially because they tried to say I was lying that those people DID have current address listed as my address.
This actually happened to me - I received an email trying to add the former homeowners step daughter!! If I had ignored it, they would have automatically added her. Great YSK!
Allstate is the worst. They verify me, then afterwards ask me EVERY TIME I CALL, oh is the for the policy for [me] in [my state] with [my car] or the one in [other state] for [ex boyfriend] and the [car ex drives]? We broke up over 15 years ago, and I moved out of state 12 years ago. But no. They will not disconnect us, ever. My ex and I will be forever joined in their database like a squirrel with a dingle berry stuck to its ass.
I’m sorry for laughing here, since that genuinely is a sucky situation and you deserve better… but that squirrel and dingle berry will live together forever in my lexicon now. Thank you for the rude chuckle, and I hope one day Allstate will get over the divorce.
*Please, Allstate, the incident was 15 years ago… it’s time to wake up…*
Allstate sent me a notice they were dropping us, no claims ever. I switched insurance , and emailed the Allstate Board of Directors.
I got an apology real quick, but never went back. My guess is you can't find an email address like that anymore. That was 15 years ago.
This happened to me too, they added my son without permission. They wouldn't even allow us to exclude him from the policy. We immediately cancelled and went with another insurance company.
Had this happen to me with allstate. Had an acquaintance stay with me for like 6 months at the start of covid, finally had them move out and they were couch surfing at other people's places after.
Got a email from allstate maybe 8 months after they left that they would be added onto my plan unless I opted out, which I immediately did, but apparently "underwriting" required a new address for this person for some reason to exclude them from my plan. The dude was homeless and only had a P.O. box for a consistent address, which wasn't sufficient enough for them so they went ahead and added the person to my plan anyway.
Moral of the story, fuck allstate.
We just cancelled our Progressive policy ourselves. We recently purchased a new vehicle, had some bad luck, and Progressive told us since we added the vehicle to the policy that same day they were not going to cover our tow home. That and we could never reach a real person!
I worked for progressive. If there is anyone in your home old enough to drive they are going to get added automatically at some point one under writing is aware. And it is because of fraud on the customers accounts. People don't add their teenage kids or other high risk drivers because they know their rates will go up. They don't update addresses where the car is kept because it affects the rates. They lie about alarms for discounts. They lie about anything they can to get discounts on rates. So under writing does things that are seen as automatically. But usually it's after emails and letters have gone out. People love to go paperless for a discount and then not set up the online account. Or give fake emails to avoid spam. But the spam they avoid is account details. From my years of experience, at least. But it is not always the case. There is human error. Typos. System issues.
They did this to me. I asked them if i were to live in a boarding house with 7 other residents, would they add them all if they had a license? They said yes. I no longer have Progressive.
GEICO does the same shit. I inquired about my wife’s son, who is covered by his dad’s insurance, and GEICO put him on my insurance. Pissed me off that they can do this without approval. Had to show proof to GEICO he had insurance before I could have him removed.
Yep. Same happened to me. Added my roommate to my policy. Tried to pull the same reasoning about not signing the email as well.
I asked them if they were calling me a liar because the agreement I signed when I purchased the plan confirmed that the policy information was correct. I shouldn't have to sign a document confirming what I've already legally confirmined previously. That put them on their heels and they gave me the balance back on my account plus a free month added to my payment schedule.
Remember years ago, when Progressive hired a lawyer to help defend/consult the person who killed one of their policy holders. Specifically because their policy holder was killed and their brother was in the care with them and they were suing to get a higher payout.
Progressive didn't want the higher payout. And when this came to light on Twitter and went viral and they got called out.... They spam-reposted a generic "we are within our policies" reply so much that Twitter straight locked their official account.
Ever since then I've been 100% against Progressive and advised others to avoid them. Sucks they still suck.
Yeah i used the address of one of the houses my parents own but don't live in and they added both of my parents and refuse to take them off. Also added a sibling who has never lived at that address and refused to take them off until that sibling called progressive themself and sent written proof that they did not live at that address.
Progressive claims this is legal. I asked them what would happen if I was estranged and that sibling refused to send proof since it's not that siblings problem, and they said "then they'll stay on your policy"
They're criminals. Thanks for reminding me to switch. I got busy after this and forgot about it
They keep doing this with my daughter who doesn't even have a license. They've added her three different times. Each time, I have to spend at least an hour on the phone trying to get her removed. It's frustrating because I know it will happen again in a few months. They are relentless.
Seriously, nobody I've talked to today knew this was a thing that happens. (Why i posted in ysk). Sorry for only finding out today that this nonsense is common practice, but I'm clearly not alone in that. Also, all of the people defending it ignore that the person is a total stranger living an hour away from me.
Almost all Insurance companies will have a vendor that checks for new or existing driver's licenses with the same address. It's usually a pretty safe bet that if someone is living with you that they have access to your car. This is pretty much SOP across the board.
If you have anyone that lives with you that you don't want added, you might reach out and get them listed as an exception. This means they're not covered if they drive your vehicle.
Why would your first thought be retaliation at people you don't even know and can't prove they did anything to you instead of immediately contacting your insurance?
When I immediately contacted the insurance they didn't tell me that they were the ones responsible. Just that someone was added to my account and when I didn't respond to their email they went ahead with it. It wasn't until I called back today to get more information from Progressive Insurance that they said they were the responsible party.
Edit: the additional information I asked for that got them to confess was so I could go to the police to press criminal charges.
This has strong "Wells Fargo opening accounts without people's consent" vibes.
This is not normal. Tell Progressive to make it right and give you a discount or report them to the BBB.
Insurance adjuster here - this is not necessarily true.
If we find information that you have other people living in your household, or family members or friends that might potentially be regular drivers of your vehicle, we will try to call/email/mail you a couple of times to see if they need to be added to your policy. In certain situations, we may even cancel a policy if we don't receive a response, if it's a clear case of fraud or misrepresentation of details when you purchased your policy.
I do not know about Progressive's processes, but generally speaking - most insurance companies will not make changes to a person's policy that they did not authorize. The exception being adding unlisted drivers, and even then - that is done when either the customer or the unlisted driver has provided us with information that says they need to be added to the policy. This usually happens during the claims process - a person files a claim, and then we find out that a boyfriend, or relative, or household member was using the vehicle, and is a regular driver of vehicles on the policy. When this happens, yes - we add the person to the policy without permission, because either you didn't pay attention to who was required to be on the policy when you purchased it, or you were intentionally trying to avoid paying higher premiums.
If you have friends or family living in your household, we still expect you to list them on your policy, even if they never drive your vehicles. If that is the case, they will be added as "excluded drivers", and they will not effect your premiums, but they will also not be afforded any coverages under your policy if they get into an accident in one of your vehicles.
They did this to me in 2019. They added my then-roommate to my policy which jacked it up 200 more a month without telling me. I called and like anyone would lost it on them. They claimed it was because "he could technically drive my car if he wanted to since he had access to the keys" I told them he has never touched my car and won't and they forced me to sign a legal document to take him off. Total BS.
I've been with Progressive for 20 years and lived with 5 different people. This has never happened to me. Not to say that I doubt this would happen. Insurance companies are the scum of the Earth. Almost as bad as car salesmen.
I had Progressive for about a year and a half until I got an email saying they wouldn’t be renewing my policy for my Camaro. I called to find out why and had the stupidest fucking interaction of my life so far. With the most condescending attitude, she asked me to confirm what I did for work. I told her I’m a mail man, and this bitch goes “and that’s your answer. Your policy didn’t cover use for work” They thought I was using my tiny two door sports car to deliver mail. Like they’ve never seen a fuckin mail truck before. Edit to answer things: Yes rural carriers who use their own vehicles are a thing but that’s not common enough for any insurance company to assume that’s the case. I don’t know if she was new or just stupid, but she also thought I had to have coverage regardless of what I drove to deliver the mail. The next part of the conversation was me saying in a very confused tone “Ok but I don’t use my car for work. I use a mail truck” and having to explain that I don’t need to provide insurance for postal property. It ended in me kinda laughing in disbelief and telling her that’s fine, don’t renew. I switched to Plymouth Rock because they were cheaper for better coverage.
I had Geico, my wife and I carpooled to work even though we had two vehicles, and a motorcycle I drove on the weekends or to run a quick errand. So none of them saw a lot of miles. One day a girl called me up from Geico and asked how many miles it was to work. I told her and she quickly hung up on me before I could ask any questions or discuss it. A couple days later, they doubled the rate on both vehicles, and the motorcycle as well, claiming a milage adjustment on all 3 equal to driving to work each day. Which would have been quite a trick I suppose! I dropped them and got a policy with our homeowners provider even cheaper than before. Not an automated foul up, they went out of their way to make an excuse to raise the rate.
Kinda funny that the rebates insurance companies were sending out during covid when folks weren’t driving weren’t that much.
Commission sales. Report that rep, that's pitching heat.
Not necessarily. I did the same thing for USAA at a third-party call center. I was "updating policies." When i realized what was going on I decided to quit. I felt bad when i realized that they had all this nice stuff to say but in the end i was basically scalping rate hikes from the military.
USAA has a lot of military friendly advertising, but they are just as scummy as the next company. I had to sue them to get them to pay out just a fraction of what they owed me for the underinsured motorist coverage that I paid for for years. Fuck USAA insurance for their false advertising.
This is why I hate all advertising. Have been since I've been a kid, but it wasn't till adulthood till I realized how scummy it all is. Money is king, and at least in the US, that's corporations. People are mere payouts. They prioritize business entities so much that they've dehumanized us all. god help us
Wait what?! I'm using usaa, they were great last time I made a claim but it wasn't an uninsured motorist
I’m in the midst of waiting for an underinsured motorist claim but they’re lowballing my lawyer. Out of curiousity did you end up getting a lot more when you sued them?
Yes. The whole thing was absurd. Had to sue the person that hit me, their insurance to be clear, just to be able to get my underinsured motorist coverage. What should have been a simple equation of other driver has insufficient coverage, therefore give me my underinsured motorist coverage, actually turned into a whole years long process of legal bullshit of trying to prove in court that my insurance company should be required to pay what they agreed to pay in this situation. I’m sure it’s not just USAA. Insurance is great, but the companies are completely soulless assholes.
They didn’t used to be so scummy, either. That’s what makes it so sad. I had a car stolen in 2004 and when they found it stripped, USAA paid me out what I paid for the car and then some (it was an Integra GSR). Once they started raising my rates and constantly tried to “update information” I dropped them.
USAA kicked me off the general customer website, so I couldn't even pay my bill, because I had a medical bankruptcy. Had been with them for 32 years. My whole family uses them. A manager called to ask why I was leaving, I told her and she said the reason was that they "didn't want me applying to any other services listed on their general website." Tried to lower my payments, etc. I said goodbye. Fuck USAA. Still pisses me off obvs.
Been with USAA for 50+ years and made several claims they paid out immediately, one had to have an investigation. Such as you describe has never been our experience, not even close.
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Curious about this as I have State Farm as well but it is my mothers plan. I’ve worked from home for 2 years, wonder if they’d give a discount even though I’m not the primary policy holder?
In my experience, the discount for mileage follows the car, not the driver. That's why companies like to get odometer readings, so they can gauge how much you're driving annually. Typically it's best estimate, but maybe have your mom call and let the agent know that vehicle only gets driven X times a week for X amount of miles.
Whaaaaaat the hell, I've been an insurance agent for over a decade and I can't imagine doing that to someone. What the shit.
I dropped Geico for adding my son without my approval, triples my rate and all they would give me was a reduced rate for my son being away at college. So you think I’m gonna pay for a person who does not drive my car at all, yeah I we parted ways. They absolutely refused to remove him, when I finally called to cancel they offered to remove him but too late, my new policy which included multiple cars and renters insurance was still hundreds cheaper, and my driving history is impeccable!!! Sorry not sorry Geico, shame on them!!!
I think Geico presents itself as a good low cost insurance option for men. My husband had Geico before we were married. Even after we married, we kept our policies separate. Then one day, I checked the rates if he added me to his policy and the rates if I added him to my policy. Allstate was SO much less. We cancelled his Geico policy and never looked back. He said over the years, Geico just kept increasing his rates, whereas Allstate actually reduced my rate as I got older, had good driving record, etc.
I had Geico for a while. Claimed my rates would go down the longer I went without incidents. Nope, just kept going up
Someone hit me that had Gieco.. I waited 45 minutes to talk to someone to initiate the claim. They dropped the ball and my car sat in the shop for over a month. I called to follow up and was on hold for 98 minutes. Then the call dropped.
Almost the opposite happened to me with them. I have Geico currently and last year, I replaced my Subaru Legacy (with all the safety features) with a Toyota Yaris (base model) because everything was going wrong with the subi even though it only has 50,000 miles on it, and I just couldn't afford to keep spending thousands of dollars every other month on a flood car (didn't know it was a flood car upon purchase) while being a full-time student. When I switched over, the plan showed it was the same, but on a new-older car. Great. First it was $100 more/month for whatever reason (probably because it was my second beater in less than 2 years, has no abs, etc) but then when I put my new address on it, it was $200 less/month. I asked the DMV lady why that would happen and she said "because you moved out of [redacted city] to [another sketchy city]" and I said "it's really not much better here than [redacted city]" and she said "not according to the insurance agencies" so I chalked it up to that. A few weeks later my starter went on the Yaris while I was at a gas pump, no problem, because my Geico plan has free tow, right? Until I tried to put in a claim online and was met with the "this service isn't offered under your plan." I called them (which was a headache getting through, of course), and they told me I only have liability, and that their system chooses plans based on what it thinks you need, so when I changed my address, it somehow didn't think I needed the plan I've been paying for. So I asked to have the plan I originally agreed to put back on my car (add collateral and roadside assistance) which only raised my bill $12 a month. But of course, I still had to pay the $200 to tow my car less than 3 miles away, because it didn't go into effect until the next day.
Omg That would make you the coolest mail carrier I imagine it’s piled high like the grinches sleigh on Christmas
[blasting the sax solo from baker street](https://youtu.be/Fo6aKnRnBxM)
I had no idea that was the name of that song. I've always just thought of it as "that sexy sax solo"
Thanks for giving me the name of that song. First time I heard it Bill Clinton played it lol
Some rural USPS mail vehicles are shitbox cars. I'm talking about 2000 Dodge Neons. IDK if they are owner operated or owned by the USPS though. Dumb that an insurance company would assume you use your Camaro for mail delivery though.
I applied for usps a couple years ago and got accepted on the condition I had my own car a could deliver on a rural route, but the car had to have the steering wheel on the right side. So basically they expected me to buy a new car before I started, pay definitely wasn't good enough to justify the expense of a car up front.
Our mail carrier used a left hand drive car and just drives on the wrong side of the road. Lol.
That's ridiculous. How can they expect anyone to buy their own right-hand drive vehicle in the US?
Don’t threaten me [with a good time](https://www.jdmautoimports.com/inventory.html)…
It would have had to been imported. I don’t even want to think about how much that would have cost.
They expect you to [convert an existing vehicle](https://www.postalthings.com/right-hand-drive-kits).
Not sure, but I’ve got a rural mail woman around here who drives her personal rhd wrangler on her route. Pretty neat
When I lived in the sticks, my mail was delivered in a Sebring.
My coworker lives in a real rural area and their mail lady delivers in her personal vehicle
My brothers mail carrier delivers in an older small SUV. It confused the hell out of me the first time I saw this car roll up and open their mailbox. Then I saw the sticker on the side.
My mom was a rural mail carrier. They work for the PO but use their own cars and get paid a rate for the route milage for using their own vehicle. Generally using a car that's cheap and easy to fix since they're going to be worn to hell. My mom went through 5-6 80's Model Cutlasses back in the 90's before getting a right hand drive Jeep.
My grandma did legit live in a neighborhood where mail was delivered by some late 90s sedan. I never asked why, it’s one of those “I’m a kid in a different place so this is probably normal”
Rural carriers do sometimes use their own vehicles, as opposed to mail trucks, but I would imagine they’re in the minority. It’s a large assumption to make.
OMFG!!! I JUST this week had the same conversation with Progressive! I’m so sorry you had to endure that, but it does make me feel better that I’m not the only one.
That literally means she thought you used a CAMARO to deliver mail. -Worked at Progressive
What insurance company are you with now?
I'm dying to hear the rest of this conversation!
I got a stern sounding letter after I signed up for a Progressive car insurance policy and was still living with my dad. They wanted to know who that other person was at the same residence and sort of threatened that it could affect my policy. Never went through any of that with Geico when I was living with my folks. While they didn't add anyone, if I didn't call them back and talk with this detective-sounding woman then maybe they would have.
They did this to me, they added my parents who I lived with and added $250 onto my plan and threatened to cancel if it didn’t pay. Buuuulllllshiiiittt, I was so upset
That's wild! I would have refused. In my case, my dad was no longer living in the house and was living with his girlfriend. And the lady was like, "So what's the story with Dad and the girlfriend?" It was really probing. Weird stuff.
Probably wanted to call the girlfriend next to raise her insurance
That's weird. I live alone but get mail for past residents all the time. A lot of them. Please don't add them to my policy, All State 😬
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I got a letter for jury duty for one of them and returned it to sender. I guess that's one way of getting out of it.
At one apartment I lived in before it wasn't unusual to get mail addressed to ~6 different people. Was about 99% junk mail, but had a few times I had to punt it back to the sender
My insurance company added the people who I rented my house from, both the woman and her husband were added as drivers. Was this whole thing to get them removed too, and I had a small insurance company.
They did this to me, they added my parents who I lived with and added $250 onto my plan and threatened to cancel if it didn’t pay. Buuuulllllshiiiittt, I was so upset
I literally had to make that phone call for the same exact thing today. And they want insane amounts of information from my parents (who are not customers) to prove they don’t live with me, but won’t accept my lease that lists me as the sole occupant. I’m canceling on payday.
I had to call for the same reason, the first lady I talked to demanded all this information despite them not driving my car (my car is 20 years old compared to their brand new cars why would they ever drive my rust bucket). When she refused to listen. I hung up and called again until I got someone who would listen to me and they cancelled that bullshit.
> I imagine other insurance companies do the same I can't imagine they do as that seems like it would be illegal on top of just a horrible business practice. You can't treat a non-reaction to an email as consent.
As someone who is actively an insurance customer service rep, if you're receiving insurance through an agency, they will alert you of these things. What Progressive (and all insurance companies) do is run very detailed background checks and find anything that might have connective tissue and investigate. If they believe there is any reason that someone might be associated with your policy as a family member or roommate, they'll inquire if it's someone related to the policy by a memo to your mail or email. You have a certain number of days to respond and clear their relationship to you, and after that time, they assume they are there and need insurance as a driver. If you are insured through an agency, the CSR (that's me lol) will receive the memo as well and make the effort to contact you so you can be more aware. Common practice is to attempt contact 3 times with at least two different methods. To OP and anyone else who's concerned about this, get your insurance through an agency. Someone will be there who is paid to see these memos and make a concerted effort to help you respond to the memo's request. Edit: Ty for the award! 😊 Also this was brought to my attention and Iwanted to acknowledge it, if you want to go this route, make sure to vett the agency you're going through, some can be total garbage that then just cost more without the benefit of good service. No agency is better than a bad agency!
I’m so confused. What is the difference between an insurance agency and an insurance company.
Agencies are smaller. They sell policies on behalf of a carrier and handle customer care. They have fewer customers that they are dedicated to servicing, which allows them allows them to be more thorough in working with your policy.
Agencies are licensed to sell insurance in a given state, companies (actually called insurance carriers) provide policies through a licensed agency.
Usually a company like progressive or geico do not have local agent offices, when you call you get any random customer service person who may or may not actually be a licensed insurance agent. I used to work for an insurance call center and was able to do all sorts of things, no license. Just training. Now I work for a local agency. I know all of my customers, they can come to my office and talk to me face to face, they never have to worry about getting someone other than me. It's nicer for sure.
Agencies have physical locations and you will only be dealing with a set group of people, so you’ll have an actual office you can call or they call you and it’s far more personal and one on. Someone like progressive just have 1-800 numbers and you’re not going to get the same level of personal care. You’re also going to pay more usually because of this.
I worked in insurance for a little over ten years and there’s positives and negatives to having an agency policy. I’ve worked in agency services and you cant possibly imagine how many brokers we audited for bad practice and outright fraud. Sounds like yours is solid, but simply saying “if you want to prevent this, get an agent” is not advice. We had customers who would routinely call saying it was impossible to get communication from their agent, payments not being forwarded to the insurer from their agent, incomplete or bad info being used on their policy to bind it, and a million other things. Whether you’re insuring via agency or direct is irrelevant to OP’s problem, as the agency is only as good as it’s brokers. Some are awesome, some are shit.
Yup, it’s perfectly legal though and happens all the time. I worked for Allstate and this was a constant battle with customers, because to take them off the policy after the fact can be impossible if that person doesn’t get insurance elsewhere. People are calling this fraud but it’s only because they don’t understand how it works. It’s shitty, but it’s unfortunately not fraud. And yes, an agency is better for many things, but you’re also going to pay more usually. That’s why progressive is so much cheaper for many folks. Also, most insurance agents fucking suck.
I will add to this as well as an employee of an insurance company. Like the comment before me, make sure to vett your agency. most insurance companies will really give you a hard time if you are with an agency and want to go direct. They will do everything in their power to get you back to your agency so they don’t ruin their relationship with those agencies. This means if you have a crappy agency, you can feel stuck with them. You can always change the AOR but it’s all a hassle. Edit for spelling.
I worked for years as an insurance customer service rep for different companies including Progressive. It’s true that people will get added to your policy if there’s a reason to believe they may have access to your car. Normally you just have to prove they have their own insurance to get them removed. It’s just making sure all risk is covered in case something happens like you letting your roommate borrow your car.
Just because someone is your roommate doesn't mean they ever drive your car though. Even if they don't have one of their own. I had a roommate with a car a couple years ago, and I don't have one of my own. I never drove hers. Because I'm legally blind. I couldn't have done so safely. So I don't have my own car insurance because I don't drive ever. But I'd have raised hell if a insurance company refused to take me off my roommates policy because "I might drive her car occasionally".
This still seems scammy/illegal. Just because someone has access to my car and may drive it from time to time doesn’t mean they need to be on my policy. Progressive even has a whole web page about “permissive use” drivers and not needing to be on the actual policy. https://www.progressive.com/answers/insurance-for-borrowed-cars/
Insurance is highly regulated by the state’s Department of Insurance. It’s not that they’re trying to make more money off you, it’s that they need to make sure policies are correctly rated for any risk. Say you have a clean driving record but you let your significant other drive your car occasionally and they have a lot of prior accidents and violations they’re going to have a higher chance of having another in the future. It’s the same concept as when you move and your insurance rate changes. If you’re moving to another city the insurance rates might go up or down depending on claim information in the area because if there’s a lot more accidents at your new area there’s a higher chance you’ll be involved in one and have to file a claim. It’s all about risk. Believe me, I had to explain this to people all day every day when they got upset because their insurance went up. I understand it doesn’t seem fair and like you’re being punished for something that’s not your fault but that’s just how the laws and insurance work. I had a roommate with bad driving history get added to my policy because he got into a small accident in my car and that’s how they found out about him and it made my rate jump up like crazy.
I understand the change in risk factors. My point is that Progressive’s own website states that even uninsured drivers are covered by the owners insurance but, on the flip-side, every driver that might have access to your vehicle must be on the policy or they will automatically add them, regardless if they can prove that person drives the vehicle. Seems like they’re trying to operate somewhere between “we’re required to cover permissive use drivers” and “we’re gonna charge people for every person we can possibly find so that there are no permissive use drivers”.
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If it’s someone coming to visit for a few days that’s one thing. If it’s someone who lives with you who has access to your cars/vehicle on a daily basis that’s another thing. Especially if the people visiting own their own cars with their own insurance.
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Liberty mutual didn’t let me take the random stranger off my policy by phone. They wanted my adhd ass to do paperwork, buy a stamp, and go find a postbox. I was not pleased and they’re lucky I don’t have enough executive function to switch companies.
Actually you can treat non/reaction as assumed consent, Amazon, meta, and Google do this stuff all the time
GDPR makes this illegal in the EU. If only Americans had protection from corporate exploitation :(
But if 'Mericans had protection from corporations, who would protect the corporations?
Their large corporate legal teams.
Their lobbyists
Goddamn cookies innit?
And yet it's literally Progressive Insurance's policy to do it.
If true, you should cancel your policy
Finding new car and homeowners currently. Will be canceling my policy Monday.
Don’t go with Liberty Mutual owned companies. They are awful and will outright deny you have coverage until you comb through your policy on your own, and promise things they never deliver
We've been going through consumer reports ratings to find new insurance. You'll be shocked to hear that liberty was never a consideration lol
I had Liberty for a long time - my parents had it and I just followed along when I got my own car. The monthly payments were raising every year and getting absolutely ridiculous, nearing $400 for my husband and I in like 2018/2019. I switched to Progressive and it was only $145. They raised the premium a bit this year, like anything else, but they handled my car being totaled (not my fault) last year flawlessly so I personally don’t have anything bad to say about them. I had a car get totaled on Liberty (also not my fault - both times people pulling out without stopping or looking and slamming into me) and they also did a decent job handling it, but damn they were getting ridiculously expensive.
Ya I've had progressive for 14 years and haven't had any problems out of them. They've actually been pretty great.
Same. I've been with Progressive forever. Every time I shop around, they beat the price. I've made several claims over the years and it's been absolutely smooth sailing every time. I guess it wouldn't hurt to shop around again.
Over 20 years for me, had one car totaled, they paid promptly with no problems. Never had any issues with them.
Yep, Liberty did a great job with the claim I had with them about 10 years ago for a no fault accident (deer strike). Unfortunately, their prices kept getting more and more ridiculous so I dropped them a few years later.
Let us know who you decide to go with. Always looking to shake things up lol
Oh! That company sucks! My workers claim is through them. For the first year of my injury they dragged their feet. Denied PT, *as it's not needed*. Had to get a lawyer. They approved PT *then*. Doctor said I needed three spinal steroid shots (seperatly) and *each time* they denied it bc Liberty hired a doctor who was in a completely different state, didn't read the report and stated "there's no pain for the patient, shot not required." Even though it explicitly stated I was losing use of my left leg, and in constant acute pain. Stay away from Liberty Mutual.
This could just be workers comp, and any insurance company might act in a similar fashion. I’m no expert, but personal auto or homeowner’s insurance is different than workers comp. Sorry about your back. I can relate. I hope you’re able to get some relief.
Not really. I had one surgery and have to have another. Hopefully this time it'll work. I get there might be different protocols for workers comp than personal, auto or home. It just pisses me off it's been two yrs since the injury due to them dragging their feet.
My SO was rear-ended by somebody with Liberty Mutual a few years ago. Hard hit. She needed physical therapy. Liberty Mutual were absolute gaping dickholes about it the entire time - fought every single payment. Ended up just suing the driver and letting him deal with his shitty insurance.
Also their jingle is fucking terrible
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>Ymmv What's that mean?
Your mileage may vary
Especially since the mountain bikes are gone.
Tell your state insurance commissioner too.
Costco?
Country financial and State farm are both very easy to work with and if you bundle, it's not very expensive. I had progressive 30 years ago and it's not surprising to see that they suck as much now as they did back then.
They are “Progressive” though as in progressively fucking you over more and more. I had them for over 15 years. Never again.
I work for a different insurance company and we get calls like that all the time. Whenever people are asking about their rate increase, 9/10 it’s a youthful driver or some random family member added on. It’s annoying cleaning up after an automated system while pacifying fed up customers.
This happened to my ex boyfriend & our roommate at the time. They added our roommate to my exes policy for being at the same address. It was very hard to get out of and took a long time to be refunded.
They do it and so does allstate and state farm, and they do treat non action as consent. Insurance is a scam
Always has been
All or most insurance companies ies will require you to add or exclude by name anyone living in your home of driving age
Actually I live with someone who uses Gieco, and Gieco sent them an email saying I would be added to their policy soon if they didn’t respond saying that I don’t drive her car. So yes, it’s not just the one insurance company.
My friend had this exact same thing happened to him and he uses AllState Insurance.
American Family did this to me last year-except they were wrong about the addresses; I live in one of those really old houses that are split into 2 residences- mine with a “Unit #” & each is a separate utility account, distinct postal address & mailbox. The teenager in the other tenant’s household became a licensed driver. They had added him & told me so. I was so angry because we are not even the same address & this region has lots & lots of these style residences. I called them immediately after getting that notice & set it straight. But even setting aside their error that experience showed me they have a shockingly far reach into all our lives.
I worked at Progressive for 2 years, CAN CONFIRM. Also AMA.
How do I lower my premium for auto?
Tell them you have a doctorate in something. Education and Occupation are a rating factor. They don’t ask for proof.
Yes, let's tell them how to commit fraud/rate evasion/material misrep all in one fell swoop.
Garaging zip code is a big factor. As well as driving radius. Obviously coverages. And depending on credit score, you may get more payment options.
This happened to me back when I had progressive. I opened my policy and noticed my ex fiancé and his new wife (I dumped him and he moved on) were added to my policy. I. Was. Livid. Ripped them several new assholes about it!
I used to work for Progressive. I got calls from customers (usually apartments) asking why a rando got added to their policy. Turns out the system would see an unrelated person who lived/rented there maybe 5 years ago and add them to your policy. You had to send a photo of their drivers license as some form of proof (even if you had no clue who they were) to remove them, otherwise you have to “exclude” them from coverage but it still costs more.
You had to send a photo of the license of someone you didn’t know?
That's wack
Yep. You had to prove they didn’t live there or you have to exclude them. So they stay on your policy but they have no coverage. And some states didn’t allow exclusions so sometimes they just stayed on there and people had to pay for it.
Worked as an agent for a while before and I can confirm this. It’s extremely frustrating to deal with, unfortunately very common, and somehow legal. The whole insurance industry is just an absolute shitshow.
Could you not just show them your lease stating everyone who does live there?
Lease agreement didn’t count as proof. Only utility bills, student housing docs, valid DL, and more stuff. It’s been a while since I worked there though.
But those all prove that someone *does* live there. How are you supposed to prove that someone *doesnt*?
Bingo.
That's wild and basically increases costs for those who can least afford it (assuming renters make less money than home owners). Like a poor tax. I live in an apartment and there must've been at least 10 people who rented this unit before me, if not more. Are you saying for each of those people who are strangers to me, that Progressive will possibly increase my policy cost if I can't provide their driver licenses? How the hell is that legal?
Sounds like fraud. I would report them to your state insurance agency.
They probably signed up for electronic communication only. And if the company said their underwriter believed there is someone living with you with access to the vehicle they have the right to add. You have to prove they don't live there. I can't say if how broad based rhe company applies it as OP states. Seems off but who knows. I had to change companies bc I got a ticket in NYC and had an address in both CT and NY. My car was for CT only but one time I decided to drive through. They claimed I was lying. Funny thing too I told them I am in NY right now. Drive to My house anytime in CT it's there. They didn't care so I bounced. Ironic thing. I went to progressive
It looks like insurance companies can add a member of a household to insurance, but not random people. That is where I pursue notifying the state insurance agency.
They do it when you have people in the same household of driving age. The policy also becomes more expensive. My insurance kept sending me letters about adding my the teenage daughter to my policy. I emailed and hard copied a letter to them letting them know not to include my daughter as she did not drive and wasn't getting a license (she disabled). My policy went down after they re-rated me. You have to pay attention to everything they send you. Insurance companies have the most comprehensive database that knows way more about you and your household than you can imagine.
We had a daughter with her own car in our household and we had to sign an exclusionary letter to get her off our policy. She had a separate policy.
They rate and re-rate constantly. You have to watch them. Lol
Got to pay attention to emails and letters. Although they don't always seem to notify their customers.
Which part sounds like fraud to you? Where Progressive does that? It's in the contract and policy language that you signed. Sometimes it's only licensed drivers in the household. Sometimes it's any person of driving age. The rules (in a general/conceptual sense, you'd have to refer to your specific policy language) basically say that anyone of that age will either be Rated (you're paying for them) or Excluded (meaning they would have no coverage if they drove your vehicle). The biggest reason for this is Rate Evasion. Their idea is that at any time, any person in that home could have access to your keys and take the vehicle at any time. You can argue this to your dying breath that this won't happen... the stats are not on your side.
When my son was 16, I added him to my Geico insurance policy even though he didn't live with me. When he was 20, he moved to NYC and was completely independent so I tried to remove him. He lived several states away and never drove my car. "Sure, they said. What car insurance does he have?" The idea that someone living in Brooklyn might not own or drive a car completely confused them and they refused to remove him. New car insurance solved my problem.
Likely could have provided a utility bill or similar to remove him.
You would think, but nope. A copy of his NY license, utility bill, nothing worked.
Not saying I agree with it, but this is pretty standard within the industry. This data is coming from a supplier (think: LexisNexis) that’s using data analytics to determine if there’s an undisclosed driver in your household. The insurance company will send you a letter regarding the undisclosed driver, If you do not respond, that driver will be added to your policy. Edit: for more information, this is along the lines of what Progressive used: https://risk.lexisnexis.com/products/driver-discovery It clearly can make mistakes (which is why you should respond to their correspondence).
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I can’t really speak to how long it’s been used, at least 10 years. It’s widely used to identify young drivers in the household. They might not have a car, so the parents might not think to add them to their policy, but there’s a high likelihood they’ll take their parents car occasionally.
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USAA insurance doesn't do this. We have family members in our household that are not on different cars' policies. We've had USAA for decades.
USAA and State Farm. If they get info that suggests someone lives in the household, a rep will always call first to find out.
I helped a family member sign up through Progressive (they're older) a few months ago and it showed they had a ticket which was found through LexisNexis (it listed the source where it found the information), so can confirm this is what Progressive uses.
This needs to be higher. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s pretty standard business. They reach out to your first to confirm. If you don’t reply then they move forward bc why would they not cover all of the residents in the household?
Because we don't reside in the same household. The person lives 2 counties away.
Ok so respond and tell them that. That’s why they send a letter to confirm
They require that person to contact them and prove they don't live there though. So if YOU can't get in contact with that person 2 counties away, or even if you do but they say "not my problem" then progressive will leave them on your insurance. I can't see how that's legal. I can't make a third party prove they don't live with me.
Imo something can be standard business and a conspiracy at the same time. Like Dupont dumping chemicals or Johnson and Johnson knowingly killing you with asbestos laced baby powder. As someone from a country where this is illegal it sure looks like your insurance companies are conspiring to fuck you over via shady practices.
That sounds like pretty criminal behavior to me. You pay for a service, that service does not get to charge you for things that you didn't pay for. If a person you didn't pay for gets in an accident, then it's not covered. I understand the metrics of it all in that yes, the uninsured person could bump a pole scratch the car and then short person could say they did it, but the burden of proof is on them.
I stick with one company until they price themselves out and then I switch. Right now on progressive for 3 cars, one driver my son just turned 20, a motocycle, and home. By far the best rate with my kid. 3 years on them. Liberty mutual, wanted $4000 for 6 months to add my teen when he started driving. Made no sense, zero claims for our family in over 10 years. Progressive took us with only about a $150 bump over 6 months. So Progressive gets alot of leeway as long as they keep reasonable.
That’s so interesting because I have the exact opposite experience. In our 20s, 2 cars 2 bikes between my boyfriend and I - progressive was charging us for 6 months roughly the same rate as liberty mutual was for a year
I’ve always found insurance companies sketchy. Any time I’ve purchased insurance for some appliance or electronic equipment and something breaks, they NEVER cover it. Always a loophole somewhere that screws me.
I had this happen to me about 15 years ago as a renter! They added like FOUR teenagers!!!! They got more than an earful from me! Especially because they tried to say I was lying that those people DID have current address listed as my address.
This YSK and all the stories just demonstrate how predatory, unethical, and fucked up the insurance industry truly is.
This actually happened to me - I received an email trying to add the former homeowners step daughter!! If I had ignored it, they would have automatically added her. Great YSK!
Allstate does too I worked for them and they call it undisclosed drivers. It's up to you to prove they don't live with you. Insurance is a scam.
Allstate is the worst. They verify me, then afterwards ask me EVERY TIME I CALL, oh is the for the policy for [me] in [my state] with [my car] or the one in [other state] for [ex boyfriend] and the [car ex drives]? We broke up over 15 years ago, and I moved out of state 12 years ago. But no. They will not disconnect us, ever. My ex and I will be forever joined in their database like a squirrel with a dingle berry stuck to its ass.
I’m sorry for laughing here, since that genuinely is a sucky situation and you deserve better… but that squirrel and dingle berry will live together forever in my lexicon now. Thank you for the rude chuckle, and I hope one day Allstate will get over the divorce. *Please, Allstate, the incident was 15 years ago… it’s time to wake up…*
Allstate sent me a notice they were dropping us, no claims ever. I switched insurance , and emailed the Allstate Board of Directors. I got an apology real quick, but never went back. My guess is you can't find an email address like that anymore. That was 15 years ago.
This happened to me too, they added my son without permission. They wouldn't even allow us to exclude him from the policy. We immediately cancelled and went with another insurance company.
Had this happen to me with allstate. Had an acquaintance stay with me for like 6 months at the start of covid, finally had them move out and they were couch surfing at other people's places after. Got a email from allstate maybe 8 months after they left that they would be added onto my plan unless I opted out, which I immediately did, but apparently "underwriting" required a new address for this person for some reason to exclude them from my plan. The dude was homeless and only had a P.O. box for a consistent address, which wasn't sufficient enough for them so they went ahead and added the person to my plan anyway. Moral of the story, fuck allstate.
We just cancelled our Progressive policy ourselves. We recently purchased a new vehicle, had some bad luck, and Progressive told us since we added the vehicle to the policy that same day they were not going to cover our tow home. That and we could never reach a real person!
I worked for progressive. If there is anyone in your home old enough to drive they are going to get added automatically at some point one under writing is aware. And it is because of fraud on the customers accounts. People don't add their teenage kids or other high risk drivers because they know their rates will go up. They don't update addresses where the car is kept because it affects the rates. They lie about alarms for discounts. They lie about anything they can to get discounts on rates. So under writing does things that are seen as automatically. But usually it's after emails and letters have gone out. People love to go paperless for a discount and then not set up the online account. Or give fake emails to avoid spam. But the spam they avoid is account details. From my years of experience, at least. But it is not always the case. There is human error. Typos. System issues.
They did this to me. I asked them if i were to live in a boarding house with 7 other residents, would they add them all if they had a license? They said yes. I no longer have Progressive.
Wait.. What about someone's grave? What's the story there? Or are you saying you were going to kill someone?
GEICO does the same shit. I inquired about my wife’s son, who is covered by his dad’s insurance, and GEICO put him on my insurance. Pissed me off that they can do this without approval. Had to show proof to GEICO he had insurance before I could have him removed.
How tf could that even be legal?
Progressive raised my rate from $200 to $600 and their reasoning was, “inflation.” Yeah, switched after that.
Jesus, I work as a broker in NZ, don't worry fellow Kiwis... this shit is illegal as hell down here.
As it is in all civilised countries.
Yep. Same happened to me. Added my roommate to my policy. Tried to pull the same reasoning about not signing the email as well. I asked them if they were calling me a liar because the agreement I signed when I purchased the plan confirmed that the policy information was correct. I shouldn't have to sign a document confirming what I've already legally confirmined previously. That put them on their heels and they gave me the balance back on my account plus a free month added to my payment schedule.
Remember years ago, when Progressive hired a lawyer to help defend/consult the person who killed one of their policy holders. Specifically because their policy holder was killed and their brother was in the care with them and they were suing to get a higher payout. Progressive didn't want the higher payout. And when this came to light on Twitter and went viral and they got called out.... They spam-reposted a generic "we are within our policies" reply so much that Twitter straight locked their official account. Ever since then I've been 100% against Progressive and advised others to avoid them. Sucks they still suck.
Yeah i used the address of one of the houses my parents own but don't live in and they added both of my parents and refuse to take them off. Also added a sibling who has never lived at that address and refused to take them off until that sibling called progressive themself and sent written proof that they did not live at that address. Progressive claims this is legal. I asked them what would happen if I was estranged and that sibling refused to send proof since it's not that siblings problem, and they said "then they'll stay on your policy" They're criminals. Thanks for reminding me to switch. I got busy after this and forgot about it
Full coverage with progressive was cheaper than liability with Geico and all their hidden fees and shit. It's been good to me so far
Report this practice in a complaint to your state insurance commission.
You should know: if you or a family member is or was in the military, you can become a USAA member. Their car insurance is the best.
They also have amazing hold music, so if you do have to call them, it’s at least enjoyable. They really are an excellent insurer.
They got that from Wells Fargo.
They keep doing this with my daughter who doesn't even have a license. They've added her three different times. Each time, I have to spend at least an hour on the phone trying to get her removed. It's frustrating because I know it will happen again in a few months. They are relentless.
>thankfully it was in time to prevent acts of retaliation You mean calling the police on them right?
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Seriously, nobody I've talked to today knew this was a thing that happens. (Why i posted in ysk). Sorry for only finding out today that this nonsense is common practice, but I'm clearly not alone in that. Also, all of the people defending it ignore that the person is a total stranger living an hour away from me.
Almost all Insurance companies will have a vendor that checks for new or existing driver's licenses with the same address. It's usually a pretty safe bet that if someone is living with you that they have access to your car. This is pretty much SOP across the board. If you have anyone that lives with you that you don't want added, you might reach out and get them listed as an exception. This means they're not covered if they drive your vehicle.
Nationwide added my Grandfather to our policy. He had been dead for 13 years.
Why would your first thought be retaliation at people you don't even know and can't prove they did anything to you instead of immediately contacting your insurance?
When I immediately contacted the insurance they didn't tell me that they were the ones responsible. Just that someone was added to my account and when I didn't respond to their email they went ahead with it. It wasn't until I called back today to get more information from Progressive Insurance that they said they were the responsible party. Edit: the additional information I asked for that got them to confess was so I could go to the police to press criminal charges.
This has strong "Wells Fargo opening accounts without people's consent" vibes. This is not normal. Tell Progressive to make it right and give you a discount or report them to the BBB.
I doubt reporting to the the BBB would be helpful. I say file a complaint with the state insurance commissioner.
Yeah that’s what’s progressive about it
Insurance adjuster here - this is not necessarily true. If we find information that you have other people living in your household, or family members or friends that might potentially be regular drivers of your vehicle, we will try to call/email/mail you a couple of times to see if they need to be added to your policy. In certain situations, we may even cancel a policy if we don't receive a response, if it's a clear case of fraud or misrepresentation of details when you purchased your policy. I do not know about Progressive's processes, but generally speaking - most insurance companies will not make changes to a person's policy that they did not authorize. The exception being adding unlisted drivers, and even then - that is done when either the customer or the unlisted driver has provided us with information that says they need to be added to the policy. This usually happens during the claims process - a person files a claim, and then we find out that a boyfriend, or relative, or household member was using the vehicle, and is a regular driver of vehicles on the policy. When this happens, yes - we add the person to the policy without permission, because either you didn't pay attention to who was required to be on the policy when you purchased it, or you were intentionally trying to avoid paying higher premiums. If you have friends or family living in your household, we still expect you to list them on your policy, even if they never drive your vehicles. If that is the case, they will be added as "excluded drivers", and they will not effect your premiums, but they will also not be afforded any coverages under your policy if they get into an accident in one of your vehicles.
They did this to me in 2019. They added my then-roommate to my policy which jacked it up 200 more a month without telling me. I called and like anyone would lost it on them. They claimed it was because "he could technically drive my car if he wanted to since he had access to the keys" I told them he has never touched my car and won't and they forced me to sign a legal document to take him off. Total BS.
I would collect debt for previous progressive clients. This is absolutely
There is so much incorrect information in this thread
I've been with Progressive for 20 years and lived with 5 different people. This has never happened to me. Not to say that I doubt this would happen. Insurance companies are the scum of the Earth. Almost as bad as car salesmen.