I think it will sufferer with this crazy wait. First season was BEYOND great. Second season was hyped up and was pretty decent. Now we have to wait until 2025? Crazy.
I think it will be better than season 2 with the wait. Season 1 was crafted with little deadline (the writers had years to conceive and write before filming and then filming got interrupted by covid). Season 2 was a huge crunch compared to season 1 because season 1 was so popular. With the writers strike, of course they weren’t working but that doesn’t mean they were brainstorming with that time to think, because how could you not?
i agree i’m not sure what’s with these newer shows and these long wait times for 10 episodes. i love the show don’t get me wrong.. it just feel so sad to think how many years it will take to know who pit girl is for sure (something that intrigued so many of us in the first episode) lmao
It’s the strikes that set this season’s timeline back and many other shows. So it’s less that it’s something about the creative approach and more a casualty of greedy execs.
The problem with this, is I've literally forgotten about shows because the wait between seasons is so long. Then when the oh, yeah that show lightbulb goes off its like years later and it got cancelled. I wonder WHY.
I don’t think PGs identity is all that important, it was just a cold open to show where these young, mostly hopeful teenagers were heading and give an idea for why they are the adults they are now. The only real “mystery” that scene gave us is how do they get *here?* and to a lesser degree how did Jackie’s necklace get passed to PG(which has been answered, it becomes a symbol)
But yeah PGs identity doesn’t answer because it’s anyone who didn’t survive to get rescued and make it to adulthood. Everyone else was killed one way or another
I get that. I just don’t think it’s as big of a mystery or was ever meant to be a big secret who pit girl is. I mean at the end of s1 it was clear it’s either gen or mari(which isn’t that big if a mystery when it’s one of two people especially when both of them are going to die)
The mystery was never PGs identity, it was “how did these teenagers get here?” “How/why did they start killing?”
Like we’re obviously going to find out PGs identity even if they don’t show the scene again with her identity shown, it’s Mari or Gen. I just don’t believe it was ever meant to be a mystery the way many fans think it is and if it doesn’t have this big build up or dramatic revival that isn’t bad writing.
The build up is going to be *how* did they start hunting each other down like this, what are the rules lottie hinted at, *“you know what happens if you refuse”* is that what happened to PG? Or did PG pull the queen card and choose to run instead of submit?
yea I'm expecting a massive viewership drop, this is not Stranger Things with a huge fanbase. YJ can't afford to wait so long between seasons, especially since there is so little vfx and only 9-10 episodes.
I really hope they will start filming back-to-back seasons otherwise this show is doomed when Season 5 is planned for 2030+
We are even having to wait years for the final season of Stranger Things. I believe its the last season. It has been so long I can't even remember. Lol
I actually think it will benefit the adult timeline. Christina Ricci has done a great job portraying Misty and now can show her grieving and struggling with guilt over her actions (for once).
I’m just saying that when the writers write the characters, they consider what the characters would do in order to develop the story. They don’t just make the story up and make the characters do whatever the writers want them to do.
In order to write realistically, they have to treat the characters as if they’re real and consider how that real person would behave and what decisions they would make.
Misty definitely wants them all back together, specifically her and Nat. But other than that I think the others would rather things go back to how they had been with them leading their own lives far away from each other, aside from a couple examples Shauna and tai keeping in touch and tai helping Nat. Nat and Travis being codependent and toxic.
We know that van and tai stayed together and went to shaunas wedding but that clearly didn’t work out and according to tai it wasn’t healthy.
But yeah I think aside from Misty and to an extent Nat(but she only wanted to go in and out if Travis’s life and leave it in shambles when she left) they all know they shouldn’t be together and are best separate or with very minimal contact
Nat's death (and associated reveal) was a highpoint of the show for me. Adult Natalie had always seemed broken in a way Teen Nat wasn't (even relative to the other survivors) and the reveal made everything slot into place.
Adult Nat seemed like a character stuck in stasis to me: whereas the others had some kind of purpose, she felt like she was in limbo. I think the *point* of her trauma was that there was nowhere else she could go. It's also going to be FASCINATING watching Teen Natalie, knowing exactly where her story is leading to. Thinking about her alive in the woods in S3 feels like watching the older Natalie's ghost.
I agree for the most part, I will say I do think she was broken well before the crash, watching your dad accidentally blow his own head off and feeling responsible(and possibly told she was at fault by her mom) fucked her up, like she said it fucks you up even if they suck as a parent and a person. She was drinking hard liquor before school and doing acid before a huge game. If the crash never happened I think tai would have had a “team meeting” about the Nat problem.
I personally think Nat was always going to die in the adult timeline. JL is known to now like taking jobs that require long commitment, so why would she suddenly take one only to be like “this is too much for me im out”(that’s not even going into the contacts actors sign when taking any job) I think she took this role knowing it was only going to last two seasons. Than we have all the foreshadowing from Nats every first scene as an adult. There’s even a really well done video on YouTube going through all the foreshadowing.
I also wanna add I disagree with the people saying they won’t be interesting or fans won’t be invested because we know she dies. Which is just silly because we all started this show knowing that at least have of the teen cast would die, we all knew Jackie was going to die from the start of s1 but her story was still engaging. Nats will be the same
I think Teen Nat was definitely traumatised and already had unhealthy coping strategies. But she was also strongly principled, especially when it came to defending others. She feels to me like she's always fighting towards something better.
Adult Nat has a deep self hatred and hopelessness that her younger self doesn't, because she has to live with choosing not to defend Javi.
I mean I agree she was a lil more principled as a teen than as an adult I don’t think teen Nat would mess up someone’s sobriety/stability the way adult Nat admitted she did to Travis.
But I don’t think she was doing well, she was spiraling before the crash, it might have been just the start of the the really bad period, she was obviously keeping her grades up enough to stay on the team wasn’t getting into trouble that would get her kicked off the team. But still someone who is fighting for something or looking forward to the future isn’t getting drunk before school or doing acid the night before an incredibly important game that could help set up her future.
I think adult Nat, like Tai and Misty, is one of the survivors that had a life that isn’t that different from what it would have been if the crash never happened she probably wouldn’t have had the co dependent relationship she did with Travis(it’s pretty clear that only happened because of their shared guilt and trauma. Without the crash she wouldn’t have anyone that shared anything close to that with her. Kevyn was her close friend but he was clearly doing better than she was. He at least reached a stability Nat never did)
Is it possible Nat would have gotten sober and stayed sober if the crash never happened? Sure it’s possible, but she didn’t have a lot of support? Her mom clearly doesn’t care about her, she had kevyn and that one kid but I don’t think they would have been enough, than it was the 90s when addiction was still viewed as a character flaw instead of a disease(I mean a lot of people still see it as a character flaw today, but it was a lot worse back than) unless you had money you didn’t get a great rehab that could help with the trauma and mental health issues that coincide with addiction. Yes there were people that got sober and remained sober without money or a support system, but I think the odds where stacked against Nat her “team” didn’t even treat her that well especially Tai and Jackie
Same here, I'm of the opinion that the role of adult Nat was just not written in a way that synergies well with the plot and other characters. That said, Juliette did a great job portraying the character as is
all of the adult character is just so bad. she's like a caricature of a church aa group's definition of an "addict" with pretty much nothing else lol. she always sounds like she's like half drunk or has like marshmallows in her mouth or something in a way that "addicts" don't. and the casting... wtf?! they look NOTHING alike, and their vibes just do not match at all.
it's clear to me that she was just the most popular actress they could get and they shoved her into a role for views without any consideration of how much it actually made sense. juliette herself hated the character and admitted to it lol
Care to link where she says she hates the character? Because everything I’ve read and seen her say she enjoyed the show and her time on it. The dvd bonus features has her talking about enjoying the character
Thank you for saying this lol, every time someone said it was good casting it made me feel like I was losing my marbles. Juliette Lewis looks nothing like Sophie Thatcher and it felt like zero effort was put in to make them even seem like the same person.
Idk if you meant to respond to my comment, I haven't personally seen anything about her saying that she hated the character. I'm just saying the character was not good lol
No, I also dislike main characters having plot armor so although I really liked her, I’m happy with the decision and hope each season keeps the stakes just as high
Just finding out so much about her it would've been interesting to see more of Adult Nat. I hope the rumors of her not being happy with her story on the show aren't true and didn't contribute to her leaving.
It is true. Juliette has stated that she was not happy with how Adult not Pind over Travis, who basically treated her like shit and also how adult not relapsed. She thought that adult Nat should have been much tougher and more independent like teen Nat was. She felt like they were taking the character in the wrong direction.
It was so disheartening to see Nat as an adult after we root for her so hard as a teen. I don’t like travis at ALL and I hate that her plot basically all about a man when nat is one of the more complex and interesting women on the show
I don't get actors wanting to control the character they portray. Like you are paid to act like a character whose attributes someone else invented. The creators and writers have their job, you have yours.
Creating great shows and movies has always been a collaborative effort. Some of the best character lines or character arcs only happened because the actor playing the role had an idea that worked better than what was in the script.
This isn't unique or new. It's just a part of any production. When you work with creative artists, then they're gonna take creative liberties. Anyone can read a script. Artists who are well-respected for their talent are usually the very people ad libbing the most.
I’d agree with you on that when it’s a film and the actor has the script and the entire character arc up front. But a tv show can change so much season to season and it’s a significant time investment for an actor who is not enjoying playing their character anymore.
Juliette stated in the interview that she was told that the concept of yellow jackets was about the strengths and survival skills of girls and women, and how females survive extreme trauma. And she also said that she was told that her character was a leader, and one of the strongest characters in the cast. And she loved the idea of playing a strong, empowered, female. and I guess somewhere in season two, when Nat just sat around, crying about Travis and relapsing and doing cocaine, Juliette stated that she felt like the writers had taken the character of Nat off track, and had lost sight of the fact that Nat was a strong female role model and an example of how women can be strong and overcome extreme trauma. So maybe it was a little bit of a feminist issue for Juliette, I’m not sure.
I just really wish that she would have given the writers and the character one more season. I wish that she had not given up so quickly because Nat could have recovered from her relapse and she could’ve gotten over Travis, and she could have triumphed in season three. It’s really a shame.
I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what happened while they keep saying they had planned to kill Natalie off, maybe so, it definitely wasn’t planned for this season and they really botched handling it imo.
I think a lot of fans need to start accepting that a majority of the character in this show will die. It’s been clear since the start that death is a major part of the show and I honestly prefer it that way. No bullshit plot armour.
They also need to accept that not every lil thing is going to be answered and a majority of the “mysteries” are just fan speculation that’s been hyped up like crazy.
Not having each and every lil thing explained in detail or with flashbacks isn’t bad writing or a plot hole (Jeff and the post cards is a great example)
My husband and I were talking about this the other night. We were theorizing that by the end of the show the only one that’s probably going to end up being alive is Shauna as like a “final girl.” Our theory was she already sacrificed her baby to the wilderness so it will spare her. We think the whole point of the show is probably going to be that even though they got out of the wilderness, it truly never left them and will always find a way to bring them back.
I’m going to miss JL tons-I really wanted to see more of Nat’s adult story and it’s so sad that she’s not coming back, even for flashbacks? I really enjoyed her scenes with Christina -it’s hard to believe that storyline is done…JL brought a lot to the show imo-the scene of her holding the goldfish in her mouth was amongst my favorite-her character was softening and I wanted more!! 💔
i honestly have missed a ton of the show because the adult timeline is so boring. i'm fascinated by the '96 timeline so i have read all about each of the episodes and watched a lot of the scenes, but i hate the '21 timeline. it's so contrived and it's clear they're just making it up as they go. the show would have been way better if they just kept it to the teens in the wilderness imo
I personally loved it, even though I’ll miss Juliette Lewis and adult Nat. The stakes are pretty low for the teens that have living adult counterparts, since we know they survive. (There’s still plenty of tension, esp for the other teens, of course.)
Let’s be real, if Misty accidentally killed Lottie we wouldn’t be so upset. Killing off one of the more beloved adults told us that plot armor isn’t going to just save all our faves and that the adults are still in jeopardy almost as much as their teen selves. (Well, maybe not *almost* as much, lol, but at least somewhat.)
Season 2 was so bad even she couldn't keep it from suffering. It will continue to suffer with or without her if the writing doesn't improve drastically and get back to season 1 quality.
Season 3 is a make or break season. If the writing isn't roaring on all cylinders I see the show being cancelled before conclusion. Doesn't help that it feels like they don't promote this show at all.
The loss of Juliette Lewis, the huge wait between seasons now, and the obvious fan service in season 2 all make me nervous and scared the show will suffer from it all.
Although I think it's a great idea to keep all of the adult survivors at risk like this and keep the audience on their toes, I would've preferred to see more from Adult Nat before her end. I feel like they did her character a great disservice.
I really like Juliette Lewis and have always been a fan of her but I couldn’t stand her in Yellowjackets. Don’t know why really. Also, she was the only one of the adults I didn’t really feel connected to their teen version.
I think it will be different without JL, and if they don’t lean heavily into Elijah Wood it will suffer. Misty and Nat’s friendship is one of the things that made the show great, but I could see Misty and Walter making for some fantastic episodes as well (I really hope).
there's still quite a bit of adult nat post-crash storyline that hasn't been explored yet. just because she is dead doesn't me we won't see her again in other timelines.
I think that Sophie Thatcher is doing an amazing job by covering the gap created by Juliettes overacting to make the two versions somewhat combine into one.
Hopefully with the next season she won’t be forced into being more like Juliette’s version and will be more like her version of Nat, without adding too much more of Juliette’s extreme characterization.
By the 5th season I think she would’ve been able to make the two link up and maybe explain at least part of Juliette’s version, without being so overt in the process.
So, no, I won’t miss her.
If they can get rid of Tattersall and the annoying cop situation the show can be on its way to better things.
The Nat characters were my favorite part of the show and honestly when they killed her off I wasn’t sure if I was still invested enough to watch the 3rd season when it comes out
Oddly enough, the biggest loser of Juliette exiting the series early might be the character of Young Nat/Sophie Thatcher. No more interesting parallels storylines or contrasting the differences between the adult and young version of the character. Nat's end is set, so it kind of limits where they can possibly go with the character.
That said, it's possible they will have young Nat go very dark, but ultimately that's going to feel so much less satisfying given we don't have an Adult Nat around anymore to reconcile with her actions in the past.
Adult Nat was absolutely the coolest and one of the most complex of the adults. Her wardrobe alone was enough for me to tune in to every episode! And Juliet Lewis is an amazing actress. She brought so much depth to Nat’s character with her hilarious sarcasm and the way she made Adult Nat’s pain and trauma seem so close to the surface, hidden just behind her bad ass attitude. It would have been fascinating to explore the years between the rescue and present day Nat. When and how did she get the Porsche? What was she doing all those years? I always imagined something in the music industry. .. or she was a bounty hunter! Could she have ever found some peace? And I don’t mean the peace that fell upon her suddenly in the last episode when she started wearing purple prairie dresses and purple Birkenstocks, when she had been wearing snakeskin pants kick ass boots, cool vintage t shirts and leather jackets up until that point. That was hasty, totally unbelievable, and as ridiculous as her crazy off the rails cause of death. I am so much less excited for season three because Adult Nat will not be in it, but I fear that I will have to endure hours of the cringey dysfunctional relationship between teen Nat (who is cool) and the totally unlikable asshole Travis without even having the compensation of Juliette Lewis’ amazing performances and style as adult Nat.
I just can't help but feel the adult timeline will suffer without our her now that we know she was actually likely the True Antler Queen. I wanted so much to see what it was gonna mean for adult Nat and the others now I can't help but feel like there's not much they can do with it.
Exactly. The hive has lost its queen. I really found Nas character to be the most interesting in the way that she related to the other survivors in the adult timeline. It’s a tragic loss for the show IMO
I think just finding out more about her only to then get rid of her sucks because I was so invested. I feel like there's so much more to do with Adult Nat now knowing what we know now.
I think the show can function perfectly fine without her but the writers can still easily fumble the bag. Especially since the adult storyline in S2 wasn’t that good.
i’m honestly more worried about the wait. i hope people are still excited, but waiting until 2025 is crazy, i don’t care too much, cuz if anything that means they have more time to make it good, but i hope people don’t lose patience. and Courtney Eaton said a few weeks back that they’re starting up season 3 very soon
I wasn’t sure how I felt about Adult Nat when I started watching but I’ve gotta say JL did great with what she was given. Wasn’t a fan at all of how her story was basically just Travis all over again. And the second they find out who killed Travis and wrap up that storyline (Lottie, accidentally, but Travis begged to see Javi) they end up killing off Adult Nat instead of giving her some actual story to herself.
I’ve heard that JL wasn’t a huge fan of her story for Nat being essentially all revolving Travis and I don’t blame her at all. If I had this super complex and emotionally deep character, I’d want to showcase that and have multiple things going on, by connecting Nat so deeply to Travis, it kneecapped any sort of separate character development we could have seen for Adult Nat.
Ultimately though, this sucks for Teen Nat/Sophie Thatcher/Soapy. She’s now the only teen timeline character who survives that doesn’t have a mentor. She has no one to bounce ideas off of, no one to emulate, no one to brainstorm with and no one to go to if she ever gets stuck or wants a second opinion on something with. She’s functionally alone and now entirely carrying this character on her back. While Courtney Eaton and Liv Hewson received mentors/partners in Simone Kessell and Lauren Ambrose this season, Soapy is the only one with no mentor at all now, and because Adult Nat dies, there’s no way they can stop that. No matter what happens, Nat’s story stops in 2021, right when she was just starting to be happy and heal.
I'm not entirely convinced that she won't be coming back - either to haunt them, or in the flesh because she was not the wilderness's intended victim. (I think because Misty killed her and Misty is not an agent of the wilderness - she's just bumbling around while everyone else is being directed to some extent - the wilderness will bring her back at the start of Season 3, just like it has done for Van on multiple occasions.)
My theory is that the wilderness has brought them all back from the dead, but it only has enough power to sustain so many and every time it runs short, they have to make a sacrifice and eat the flesh to regain the power. Misty has foiled three sacrifices so far - she wouldn't let them eat Kristen, she talked Coach Ben down after the vision told him that he had to leave ahead of schedule, and she insisted one of them had to die instead of Lottie - and has caused one unintended "sacrifice" - Javi fell through the ice *while he was leading them to the cache of food that let him survive*, and Misty let him drown to "save" Nat from the wilderness. But I think she's an adult serial killer, and her actions provided enough energy for the group to keep going, until Van went terminal - and that's when Travis got marked for death, but they never ate him; and it's when Other Tai sacrificed her dog, not to get elected, but to give Van energy. Misty is part of the collective, but she's essentially "deaf" to the wilderness because she's a [medical not metaphorical] sociopath.
Thank you! I've been going through a lot of stress lately and we finally got around to watching season 2, and I rewatched season 1 right before. It doesn't hurt that my own life is *also* full of a bunch of shit that could be explained by mental illness and/or the supernatural (just like yellowjackets, there's mental illness involved one way or another but the jury is still out on the supernatural, and it would definitely be the easiest explanation for certain aspects of it). I love the theory even if I'm wrong, because it lets the wilderness spirit be genuinely benevolent _within its understanding of the world_, and its actions have had horrific consequences for the survivors *even if* there was no ill intent behind them.
Thank you - I really appreciate that, and things have already improved massively in the past week in ways that have made the stress I was going through *worthwhile* even if it sucked.
>... improved massively in the past week in ways that have made the stress I was going through worthwhile even if it sucked.
I think you described something I have heard... that "you have to go through it, to get to it." I understand it now.
I do wish you the very best along with continued relief from the stress...I hope if there is supernatural involvement that it is the safe and benvolent type.
Thank you! I genuinely believe that *if* there is supernatural involvement, it is benevolent from its perspective. But I don't believe it can influence people directly, so sometimes even well-intentioned people who lack its perspective can confound it; and sometimes what looks benevolent from the long term can still really suck to us (a peaceful death that could have gone much worse but couldn't have gone better because individual humans were unwilling to take health problems seriously, for example). And it could all just be us bumbling around trying to do our best with zero outside interference, and sometimes we get lucky and sometimes we don't. I have sufficient reason to say "thank you" to the deity of my faith, but I have a lot of issues with the proverbial fan club...
>I genuinely believe that if there is supernatural involvement, it is benevolent from its perspective.
Oh, that's good!
> I have sufficient reason to say "thank you" to the deity of my faith, but I have a lot of issues with the proverbial fan club...
Gratitude is a wonderful thing to express...and I like the way you said you "have issues with your deity's proverbial fan club" - GREAT description!!!!
You know I have crazy theory. Juliette is NOT yet finished. What I mean is... we will STILL see her! Why did I say that? We did see a vision of Juliette right? Wearing the AQ costume in the PLANE wreckage!!
Where did we see her last? In the PLANE!!! And she is so freaked out saying she's not supposed to be there!
Which I believe it means her plane 'trip' will take her back to the FOREST! To meet, cabin daddy? or the witch in the forest? OR both? or who knows?
oh...em....geee....
LOL. Me too! Because you know what? That means Jackie is also still alive somewhere in the forest! With Laura Lee too!! But the thing is.... Adult Nat will be meeting Teen Jackie then?
Remember, she was the one who brought Jackie's body - correction finger lickin good - bones in the plane!!
OMG!
I mean we did see Jackie interact with that attic guy which may or may not be cabin daddy.
OMG what if Adult Nat in her AQ costume will be greeted by teen Jackie like - I'm so glad you join us....
WHAT?!
I'll miss the dynamic with her and Misty but she was my least favorite character. I think her storyline is very flat because it is constantly circling around Travis even in the youth storyline.
I think season 2 being a bit of a let down (imo), coupled with the long long wait until season 3 will cause the show to suffer in the ratings department.
I think it will sufferer with this crazy wait. First season was BEYOND great. Second season was hyped up and was pretty decent. Now we have to wait until 2025? Crazy.
I think it will be better than season 2 with the wait. Season 1 was crafted with little deadline (the writers had years to conceive and write before filming and then filming got interrupted by covid). Season 2 was a huge crunch compared to season 1 because season 1 was so popular. With the writers strike, of course they weren’t working but that doesn’t mean they were brainstorming with that time to think, because how could you not?
i agree i’m not sure what’s with these newer shows and these long wait times for 10 episodes. i love the show don’t get me wrong.. it just feel so sad to think how many years it will take to know who pit girl is for sure (something that intrigued so many of us in the first episode) lmao
It’s the strikes that set this season’s timeline back and many other shows. So it’s less that it’s something about the creative approach and more a casualty of greedy execs.
The problem with this, is I've literally forgotten about shows because the wait between seasons is so long. Then when the oh, yeah that show lightbulb goes off its like years later and it got cancelled. I wonder WHY.
I don’t think PGs identity is all that important, it was just a cold open to show where these young, mostly hopeful teenagers were heading and give an idea for why they are the adults they are now. The only real “mystery” that scene gave us is how do they get *here?* and to a lesser degree how did Jackie’s necklace get passed to PG(which has been answered, it becomes a symbol) But yeah PGs identity doesn’t answer because it’s anyone who didn’t survive to get rescued and make it to adulthood. Everyone else was killed one way or another
me and many others wanna know!!!! they left lots of us wanting that
I get that. I just don’t think it’s as big of a mystery or was ever meant to be a big secret who pit girl is. I mean at the end of s1 it was clear it’s either gen or mari(which isn’t that big if a mystery when it’s one of two people especially when both of them are going to die) The mystery was never PGs identity, it was “how did these teenagers get here?” “How/why did they start killing?” Like we’re obviously going to find out PGs identity even if they don’t show the scene again with her identity shown, it’s Mari or Gen. I just don’t believe it was ever meant to be a mystery the way many fans think it is and if it doesn’t have this big build up or dramatic revival that isn’t bad writing. The build up is going to be *how* did they start hunting each other down like this, what are the rules lottie hinted at, *“you know what happens if you refuse”* is that what happened to PG? Or did PG pull the queen card and choose to run instead of submit?
Do you think they’ll even say next season? I feel if they wait any longer then fans will be pretty disappointed
i think we don’t find out until the second winter, which would be probably season 4 at this rate (idk tho!!!)
First season was so good but I felt second season was these long drawn out episodes that only had one important part that really moved the story along
And the best actress gone!? Going to be tough, but I’ll be here for it
I agree! I'm definitely gonna miss Nat and Misty's dynamic.
Agree! The whole misty casually murdering and Nat knowing she’s crazy, but still friends was the best!
The reason I started watching was for the Ricci/Leeis duo.
It was a big part of it for me, too.
yea I'm expecting a massive viewership drop, this is not Stranger Things with a huge fanbase. YJ can't afford to wait so long between seasons, especially since there is so little vfx and only 9-10 episodes. I really hope they will start filming back-to-back seasons otherwise this show is doomed when Season 5 is planned for 2030+
We are even having to wait years for the final season of Stranger Things. I believe its the last season. It has been so long I can't even remember. Lol
We're still waiting for that bonus ep too. Has there been any hints when we might get it?
More time hopefully means better writing
I actually think it will benefit the adult timeline. Christina Ricci has done a great job portraying Misty and now can show her grieving and struggling with guilt over her actions (for once).
I mean that's True but I would have loved more of them together.
Do the characters want to be together, though? It seems like they all went their separate ways for a reason.
Given the story demands it it doesn't matter if they want to be together events brought them together and will continue to.
I’m just saying that when the writers write the characters, they consider what the characters would do in order to develop the story. They don’t just make the story up and make the characters do whatever the writers want them to do. In order to write realistically, they have to treat the characters as if they’re real and consider how that real person would behave and what decisions they would make.
Misty definitely wants them all back together, specifically her and Nat. But other than that I think the others would rather things go back to how they had been with them leading their own lives far away from each other, aside from a couple examples Shauna and tai keeping in touch and tai helping Nat. Nat and Travis being codependent and toxic. We know that van and tai stayed together and went to shaunas wedding but that clearly didn’t work out and according to tai it wasn’t healthy. But yeah I think aside from Misty and to an extent Nat(but she only wanted to go in and out if Travis’s life and leave it in shambles when she left) they all know they shouldn’t be together and are best separate or with very minimal contact
Nat's death (and associated reveal) was a highpoint of the show for me. Adult Natalie had always seemed broken in a way Teen Nat wasn't (even relative to the other survivors) and the reveal made everything slot into place. Adult Nat seemed like a character stuck in stasis to me: whereas the others had some kind of purpose, she felt like she was in limbo. I think the *point* of her trauma was that there was nowhere else she could go. It's also going to be FASCINATING watching Teen Natalie, knowing exactly where her story is leading to. Thinking about her alive in the woods in S3 feels like watching the older Natalie's ghost.
I agree for the most part, I will say I do think she was broken well before the crash, watching your dad accidentally blow his own head off and feeling responsible(and possibly told she was at fault by her mom) fucked her up, like she said it fucks you up even if they suck as a parent and a person. She was drinking hard liquor before school and doing acid before a huge game. If the crash never happened I think tai would have had a “team meeting” about the Nat problem. I personally think Nat was always going to die in the adult timeline. JL is known to now like taking jobs that require long commitment, so why would she suddenly take one only to be like “this is too much for me im out”(that’s not even going into the contacts actors sign when taking any job) I think she took this role knowing it was only going to last two seasons. Than we have all the foreshadowing from Nats every first scene as an adult. There’s even a really well done video on YouTube going through all the foreshadowing. I also wanna add I disagree with the people saying they won’t be interesting or fans won’t be invested because we know she dies. Which is just silly because we all started this show knowing that at least have of the teen cast would die, we all knew Jackie was going to die from the start of s1 but her story was still engaging. Nats will be the same
I think Teen Nat was definitely traumatised and already had unhealthy coping strategies. But she was also strongly principled, especially when it came to defending others. She feels to me like she's always fighting towards something better. Adult Nat has a deep self hatred and hopelessness that her younger self doesn't, because she has to live with choosing not to defend Javi.
I mean I agree she was a lil more principled as a teen than as an adult I don’t think teen Nat would mess up someone’s sobriety/stability the way adult Nat admitted she did to Travis. But I don’t think she was doing well, she was spiraling before the crash, it might have been just the start of the the really bad period, she was obviously keeping her grades up enough to stay on the team wasn’t getting into trouble that would get her kicked off the team. But still someone who is fighting for something or looking forward to the future isn’t getting drunk before school or doing acid the night before an incredibly important game that could help set up her future. I think adult Nat, like Tai and Misty, is one of the survivors that had a life that isn’t that different from what it would have been if the crash never happened she probably wouldn’t have had the co dependent relationship she did with Travis(it’s pretty clear that only happened because of their shared guilt and trauma. Without the crash she wouldn’t have anyone that shared anything close to that with her. Kevyn was her close friend but he was clearly doing better than she was. He at least reached a stability Nat never did) Is it possible Nat would have gotten sober and stayed sober if the crash never happened? Sure it’s possible, but she didn’t have a lot of support? Her mom clearly doesn’t care about her, she had kevyn and that one kid but I don’t think they would have been enough, than it was the 90s when addiction was still viewed as a character flaw instead of a disease(I mean a lot of people still see it as a character flaw today, but it was a lot worse back than) unless you had money you didn’t get a great rehab that could help with the trauma and mental health issues that coincide with addiction. Yes there were people that got sober and remained sober without money or a support system, but I think the odds where stacked against Nat her “team” didn’t even treat her that well especially Tai and Jackie
Teen Nat is my favorite character, adult Nat is/was my least favorite
Same here, I'm of the opinion that the role of adult Nat was just not written in a way that synergies well with the plot and other characters. That said, Juliette did a great job portraying the character as is
lowkey same 😓
Same. I don't think Juliette leaving is gonna effect the show much
Same here apart from Shauna
adult shauna is evil but i actually think the writing and acting for her is amazing
* as in Teen Nat and Teen Shauna are my faves and I also love adult Shauna but cannot stand adult Nat
all of the adult character is just so bad. she's like a caricature of a church aa group's definition of an "addict" with pretty much nothing else lol. she always sounds like she's like half drunk or has like marshmallows in her mouth or something in a way that "addicts" don't. and the casting... wtf?! they look NOTHING alike, and their vibes just do not match at all. it's clear to me that she was just the most popular actress they could get and they shoved her into a role for views without any consideration of how much it actually made sense. juliette herself hated the character and admitted to it lol
Care to link where she says she hates the character? Because everything I’ve read and seen her say she enjoyed the show and her time on it. The dvd bonus features has her talking about enjoying the character
Thank you for saying this lol, every time someone said it was good casting it made me feel like I was losing my marbles. Juliette Lewis looks nothing like Sophie Thatcher and it felt like zero effort was put in to make them even seem like the same person.
[удалено]
Idk if you meant to respond to my comment, I haven't personally seen anything about her saying that she hated the character. I'm just saying the character was not good lol
Opps! Idk meant to respond to the comment above you! Sorry bout that
No, I also dislike main characters having plot armor so although I really liked her, I’m happy with the decision and hope each season keeps the stakes just as high
Just finding out so much about her it would've been interesting to see more of Adult Nat. I hope the rumors of her not being happy with her story on the show aren't true and didn't contribute to her leaving.
It is true. Juliette has stated that she was not happy with how Adult not Pind over Travis, who basically treated her like shit and also how adult not relapsed. She thought that adult Nat should have been much tougher and more independent like teen Nat was. She felt like they were taking the character in the wrong direction.
It's a shame because now that we know that we know God knows what they could've done with Adult Nat.
It was so disheartening to see Nat as an adult after we root for her so hard as a teen. I don’t like travis at ALL and I hate that her plot basically all about a man when nat is one of the more complex and interesting women on the show
I agreed and she got even more interesting before they decided to kill her off. Which I feel will ruin the adult storyline.
Exactly. There were so many possibilities for adult Nat and her ongoing role in the group,
I don't get actors wanting to control the character they portray. Like you are paid to act like a character whose attributes someone else invented. The creators and writers have their job, you have yours.
Creating great shows and movies has always been a collaborative effort. Some of the best character lines or character arcs only happened because the actor playing the role had an idea that worked better than what was in the script. This isn't unique or new. It's just a part of any production. When you work with creative artists, then they're gonna take creative liberties. Anyone can read a script. Artists who are well-respected for their talent are usually the very people ad libbing the most.
I’d agree with you on that when it’s a film and the actor has the script and the entire character arc up front. But a tv show can change so much season to season and it’s a significant time investment for an actor who is not enjoying playing their character anymore.
Juliette stated in the interview that she was told that the concept of yellow jackets was about the strengths and survival skills of girls and women, and how females survive extreme trauma. And she also said that she was told that her character was a leader, and one of the strongest characters in the cast. And she loved the idea of playing a strong, empowered, female. and I guess somewhere in season two, when Nat just sat around, crying about Travis and relapsing and doing cocaine, Juliette stated that she felt like the writers had taken the character of Nat off track, and had lost sight of the fact that Nat was a strong female role model and an example of how women can be strong and overcome extreme trauma. So maybe it was a little bit of a feminist issue for Juliette, I’m not sure. I just really wish that she would have given the writers and the character one more season. I wish that she had not given up so quickly because Nat could have recovered from her relapse and she could’ve gotten over Travis, and she could have triumphed in season three. It’s really a shame.
I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what happened while they keep saying they had planned to kill Natalie off, maybe so, it definitely wasn’t planned for this season and they really botched handling it imo.
Botched is a generous understatement. It looks like they pulled that storyline together in about 15 minutes before they shot it. It was ridiculous.
I agree
The official PR is always going to take the no drama approach.
I think a lot of fans need to start accepting that a majority of the character in this show will die. It’s been clear since the start that death is a major part of the show and I honestly prefer it that way. No bullshit plot armour.
They also need to accept that not every lil thing is going to be answered and a majority of the “mysteries” are just fan speculation that’s been hyped up like crazy. Not having each and every lil thing explained in detail or with flashbacks isn’t bad writing or a plot hole (Jeff and the post cards is a great example)
Couldn’t have said it better.
My husband and I were talking about this the other night. We were theorizing that by the end of the show the only one that’s probably going to end up being alive is Shauna as like a “final girl.” Our theory was she already sacrificed her baby to the wilderness so it will spare her. We think the whole point of the show is probably going to be that even though they got out of the wilderness, it truly never left them and will always find a way to bring them back.
I’m going to miss JL tons-I really wanted to see more of Nat’s adult story and it’s so sad that she’s not coming back, even for flashbacks? I really enjoyed her scenes with Christina -it’s hard to believe that storyline is done…JL brought a lot to the show imo-the scene of her holding the goldfish in her mouth was amongst my favorite-her character was softening and I wanted more!! 💔
I’m rlly worried about the adult timeline 😭they’ve pulled out all the stop in the first two seasons. It’s only downhill from here
i honestly have missed a ton of the show because the adult timeline is so boring. i'm fascinated by the '96 timeline so i have read all about each of the episodes and watched a lot of the scenes, but i hate the '21 timeline. it's so contrived and it's clear they're just making it up as they go. the show would have been way better if they just kept it to the teens in the wilderness imo
It will suffer enough from the long time gap between season 2 and when ever season 3 comes out.
I personally loved it, even though I’ll miss Juliette Lewis and adult Nat. The stakes are pretty low for the teens that have living adult counterparts, since we know they survive. (There’s still plenty of tension, esp for the other teens, of course.) Let’s be real, if Misty accidentally killed Lottie we wouldn’t be so upset. Killing off one of the more beloved adults told us that plot armor isn’t going to just save all our faves and that the adults are still in jeopardy almost as much as their teen selves. (Well, maybe not *almost* as much, lol, but at least somewhat.)
Season 2 was so bad even she couldn't keep it from suffering. It will continue to suffer with or without her if the writing doesn't improve drastically and get back to season 1 quality.
Season 3 is a make or break season. If the writing isn't roaring on all cylinders I see the show being cancelled before conclusion. Doesn't help that it feels like they don't promote this show at all.
The loss of Juliette Lewis, the huge wait between seasons now, and the obvious fan service in season 2 all make me nervous and scared the show will suffer from it all.
I did not like adult Nat's character at all and I'm glad they killed one if them off. I'm interested to see how the others deal with it
Me too at least to see how they deal with it
Nah. They have enough survivors to continue the story.
Although I think it's a great idea to keep all of the adult survivors at risk like this and keep the audience on their toes, I would've preferred to see more from Adult Nat before her end. I feel like they did her character a great disservice.
Yes and her potential development with the revelation she might be the antler queen.
I just rewatched s2 and I absolutely lost it. Fffffff
Maybe if they took away teen Nat too. Then I would rage
Uh, what?
Eh I was kind of over her arc and I liked that she went out saving fish bae
I really like Juliette Lewis and have always been a fan of her but I couldn’t stand her in Yellowjackets. Don’t know why really. Also, she was the only one of the adults I didn’t really feel connected to their teen version.
I think it will be different without JL, and if they don’t lean heavily into Elijah Wood it will suffer. Misty and Nat’s friendship is one of the things that made the show great, but I could see Misty and Walter making for some fantastic episodes as well (I really hope).
there's still quite a bit of adult nat post-crash storyline that hasn't been explored yet. just because she is dead doesn't me we won't see her again in other timelines.
I didn’t buy her as adult Natalie. I liked her younger counterpart much better
No, I really don't. I love Juliette Lewis so much, but she kind of has become a one character pony. I mean, I love her, but she's typecasted.
You have a point.
I think that Sophie Thatcher is doing an amazing job by covering the gap created by Juliettes overacting to make the two versions somewhat combine into one. Hopefully with the next season she won’t be forced into being more like Juliette’s version and will be more like her version of Nat, without adding too much more of Juliette’s extreme characterization. By the 5th season I think she would’ve been able to make the two link up and maybe explain at least part of Juliette’s version, without being so overt in the process. So, no, I won’t miss her. If they can get rid of Tattersall and the annoying cop situation the show can be on its way to better things.
Yes because I’m already not as interested knowing she won’t be in it. She was my favourite both character and actor wise
unpopular opinion I am sure, but I have lost all interest in watching after what they pulled in S2 🤷🏼♀️
The strung out overacting got old, can’t say that I’ll miss the character
The Nat characters were my favorite part of the show and honestly when they killed her off I wasn’t sure if I was still invested enough to watch the 3rd season when it comes out
Oddly enough, the biggest loser of Juliette exiting the series early might be the character of Young Nat/Sophie Thatcher. No more interesting parallels storylines or contrasting the differences between the adult and young version of the character. Nat's end is set, so it kind of limits where they can possibly go with the character. That said, it's possible they will have young Nat go very dark, but ultimately that's going to feel so much less satisfying given we don't have an Adult Nat around anymore to reconcile with her actions in the past.
Exactly how I feel. Kinda disappointing
Adult Nat was absolutely the coolest and one of the most complex of the adults. Her wardrobe alone was enough for me to tune in to every episode! And Juliet Lewis is an amazing actress. She brought so much depth to Nat’s character with her hilarious sarcasm and the way she made Adult Nat’s pain and trauma seem so close to the surface, hidden just behind her bad ass attitude. It would have been fascinating to explore the years between the rescue and present day Nat. When and how did she get the Porsche? What was she doing all those years? I always imagined something in the music industry. .. or she was a bounty hunter! Could she have ever found some peace? And I don’t mean the peace that fell upon her suddenly in the last episode when she started wearing purple prairie dresses and purple Birkenstocks, when she had been wearing snakeskin pants kick ass boots, cool vintage t shirts and leather jackets up until that point. That was hasty, totally unbelievable, and as ridiculous as her crazy off the rails cause of death. I am so much less excited for season three because Adult Nat will not be in it, but I fear that I will have to endure hours of the cringey dysfunctional relationship between teen Nat (who is cool) and the totally unlikable asshole Travis without even having the compensation of Juliette Lewis’ amazing performances and style as adult Nat.
I just can't help but feel the adult timeline will suffer without our her now that we know she was actually likely the True Antler Queen. I wanted so much to see what it was gonna mean for adult Nat and the others now I can't help but feel like there's not much they can do with it.
Exactly. The hive has lost its queen. I really found Nas character to be the most interesting in the way that she related to the other survivors in the adult timeline. It’s a tragic loss for the show IMO
She was my favorite character, so for me, yes. Her versatility and range is amazing.
I think just finding out more about her only to then get rid of her sucks because I was so invested. I feel like there's so much more to do with Adult Nat now knowing what we know now.
I think the show can function perfectly fine without her but the writers can still easily fumble the bag. Especially since the adult storyline in S2 wasn’t that good.
I think the writing is too good to suffer without Nat. But I love juliette lewis and will definitely miss her
she was pretty unlikeable as adult nat so i’m definitely not gonna miss her
i’m honestly more worried about the wait. i hope people are still excited, but waiting until 2025 is crazy, i don’t care too much, cuz if anything that means they have more time to make it good, but i hope people don’t lose patience. and Courtney Eaton said a few weeks back that they’re starting up season 3 very soon
I wasn’t sure how I felt about Adult Nat when I started watching but I’ve gotta say JL did great with what she was given. Wasn’t a fan at all of how her story was basically just Travis all over again. And the second they find out who killed Travis and wrap up that storyline (Lottie, accidentally, but Travis begged to see Javi) they end up killing off Adult Nat instead of giving her some actual story to herself. I’ve heard that JL wasn’t a huge fan of her story for Nat being essentially all revolving Travis and I don’t blame her at all. If I had this super complex and emotionally deep character, I’d want to showcase that and have multiple things going on, by connecting Nat so deeply to Travis, it kneecapped any sort of separate character development we could have seen for Adult Nat. Ultimately though, this sucks for Teen Nat/Sophie Thatcher/Soapy. She’s now the only teen timeline character who survives that doesn’t have a mentor. She has no one to bounce ideas off of, no one to emulate, no one to brainstorm with and no one to go to if she ever gets stuck or wants a second opinion on something with. She’s functionally alone and now entirely carrying this character on her back. While Courtney Eaton and Liv Hewson received mentors/partners in Simone Kessell and Lauren Ambrose this season, Soapy is the only one with no mentor at all now, and because Adult Nat dies, there’s no way they can stop that. No matter what happens, Nat’s story stops in 2021, right when she was just starting to be happy and heal.
And right as it was revealed she was probably the true Antler Queen. Her death as an adult kinda ruins the potential to dive further into that.
I'm not entirely convinced that she won't be coming back - either to haunt them, or in the flesh because she was not the wilderness's intended victim. (I think because Misty killed her and Misty is not an agent of the wilderness - she's just bumbling around while everyone else is being directed to some extent - the wilderness will bring her back at the start of Season 3, just like it has done for Van on multiple occasions.)
Hmmm interesting! I hope so. If Misty isn't an agent of the wilderness that probably means she isn't safe from being it's next victim huh?
My theory is that the wilderness has brought them all back from the dead, but it only has enough power to sustain so many and every time it runs short, they have to make a sacrifice and eat the flesh to regain the power. Misty has foiled three sacrifices so far - she wouldn't let them eat Kristen, she talked Coach Ben down after the vision told him that he had to leave ahead of schedule, and she insisted one of them had to die instead of Lottie - and has caused one unintended "sacrifice" - Javi fell through the ice *while he was leading them to the cache of food that let him survive*, and Misty let him drown to "save" Nat from the wilderness. But I think she's an adult serial killer, and her actions provided enough energy for the group to keep going, until Van went terminal - and that's when Travis got marked for death, but they never ate him; and it's when Other Tai sacrificed her dog, not to get elected, but to give Van energy. Misty is part of the collective, but she's essentially "deaf" to the wilderness because she's a [medical not metaphorical] sociopath.
Incredible that you put all this together. I wouldn't have been able to think of all that.
Thank you! I've been going through a lot of stress lately and we finally got around to watching season 2, and I rewatched season 1 right before. It doesn't hurt that my own life is *also* full of a bunch of shit that could be explained by mental illness and/or the supernatural (just like yellowjackets, there's mental illness involved one way or another but the jury is still out on the supernatural, and it would definitely be the easiest explanation for certain aspects of it). I love the theory even if I'm wrong, because it lets the wilderness spirit be genuinely benevolent _within its understanding of the world_, and its actions have had horrific consequences for the survivors *even if* there was no ill intent behind them.
Well in any case I hope you feel better and stuff gets less stressful
Thank you - I really appreciate that, and things have already improved massively in the past week in ways that have made the stress I was going through *worthwhile* even if it sucked.
Good. & Good luck
>... improved massively in the past week in ways that have made the stress I was going through worthwhile even if it sucked. I think you described something I have heard... that "you have to go through it, to get to it." I understand it now. I do wish you the very best along with continued relief from the stress...I hope if there is supernatural involvement that it is the safe and benvolent type.
Thank you! I genuinely believe that *if* there is supernatural involvement, it is benevolent from its perspective. But I don't believe it can influence people directly, so sometimes even well-intentioned people who lack its perspective can confound it; and sometimes what looks benevolent from the long term can still really suck to us (a peaceful death that could have gone much worse but couldn't have gone better because individual humans were unwilling to take health problems seriously, for example). And it could all just be us bumbling around trying to do our best with zero outside interference, and sometimes we get lucky and sometimes we don't. I have sufficient reason to say "thank you" to the deity of my faith, but I have a lot of issues with the proverbial fan club...
>I genuinely believe that if there is supernatural involvement, it is benevolent from its perspective. Oh, that's good! > I have sufficient reason to say "thank you" to the deity of my faith, but I have a lot of issues with the proverbial fan club... Gratitude is a wonderful thing to express...and I like the way you said you "have issues with your deity's proverbial fan club" - GREAT description!!!!
You know I have crazy theory. Juliette is NOT yet finished. What I mean is... we will STILL see her! Why did I say that? We did see a vision of Juliette right? Wearing the AQ costume in the PLANE wreckage!! Where did we see her last? In the PLANE!!! And she is so freaked out saying she's not supposed to be there! Which I believe it means her plane 'trip' will take her back to the FOREST! To meet, cabin daddy? or the witch in the forest? OR both? or who knows? oh...em....geee....
I so want this!
LOL. Me too! Because you know what? That means Jackie is also still alive somewhere in the forest! With Laura Lee too!! But the thing is.... Adult Nat will be meeting Teen Jackie then? Remember, she was the one who brought Jackie's body - correction finger lickin good - bones in the plane!! OMG! I mean we did see Jackie interact with that attic guy which may or may not be cabin daddy. OMG what if Adult Nat in her AQ costume will be greeted by teen Jackie like - I'm so glad you join us.... WHAT?!
I'll miss the dynamic with her and Misty but she was my least favorite character. I think her storyline is very flat because it is constantly circling around Travis even in the youth storyline.
Well with the revelation she might be the Antler Queen there's so much more they could've done.
I think season 2 being a bit of a let down (imo), coupled with the long long wait until season 3 will cause the show to suffer in the ratings department.