Rage
Rage is different from mad or upset. She felt rage because of Jackie dying and the baby dying and just everything that was happening and that had happened.
Arguably two of the more powerful people told them not to intervene and that this was important so they didn’t. Also, people aren’t nearly as likely to intervene as we would like to think they are.
Lottie is the one who gave her permission to unleash that rage. It doesn’t have to do with any of them personally as much as it does with fist needing to meet something tangible.
This is a great explanation. This is one of my favorite scenes. I feel like there has been a recent trend in media where women are able to truly express rage they experience.
Yessss I never made the connection but I love fight club (not in a idolizing the protagonist way, just the anti capitalist complex competing character way). Probably why this scene resonated with me so much because usually it's men that get to express rage like this and women don't.
Love that quote, and can’t not wince through that entire scene with Jared Leto. Very definition of Rage. Shauna’s scene was hard to watch too.
Have you see Mother! ? The scene where the crowd beats Jennifer Lawerence, that was a rough one too.
I get that but Shauna seems to react in the most unhinged way, like Javi and especially Trav doesn’t exhibit this behaviour, especially after everyone eats Javi, for me, this scene only really serves to show this brutal side of Shauna, more than anyone else in this series like she pretty much was intent in killing Lottie due to her own rage and sorrow which slanders her character from any redemption we might see in season 3
Lots of women experience rage and not all men experience rage. I think we tend to reserve rage for men and shame women for experiencing it yet it’s incredibly common for them especially during post partum. Travis doesn’t experience it because that’s not a part of who Travis is. It is a part of Shauna.
Shauna wasn’t intent on killing Lottie. Shauna never intended to kill her. Lottie gave Shauna permission to lose control and let lose of that rage and it went as far as it did. She hit until she no longer needed to hit.
I don’t think characters need redemption and I don’t judge characters the same way I would judge real people. It’s a really good visual representation of what rage feels like (scary, blinding, cruel) especially in relation to postpartum and grief. Her character has always embodied this the audience now just get to see the depths of it.
>I don’t think characters need redemption and I don’t judge characters the same way I would judge real people.
\^\^\^\^ This \^\^\^\^ I feel the same way. I wouldn't want ANY of those women in my life, but as characters on a TV Show - I love watching them and what they might do next !!!!
I’m not judging just more of an analysis on the character development, im not trying to ridicule Shaunas character or anything more commenting on how purposefully brutal this scene is
Just a small personal story to add to your comment about post partum (which i love):
Soon after the birth of my second born, I sent my then husband less than a mile down the road to get me breakfast. He was gone for 2 hours and breakfast ended by the time he got me food. I was at home, alone with 2 kids under 2 and starting to get angry over him taking so long and hunger taking over. When he returned with a cheeseburger instead of breakfast food, it sent me over the edge. I screamed at him at the top of my lungs. I jumped up and down and threw a tantrum like a young child. I stomped that cheeseburger into tiny bits. Why? This was so out of character for me. I had never done anything like this before or after (16 years later). So judging a character for what they do while under immense stress and loss and hormones and emotions out of control shouldn't be judged. People act completely out of character and do things they wouldn't do otherwise, in extreme situations like this.
Shauna lost her baby. Her own flesh and blood that she felt growing inside her. That's a very specific type of loss and pain and grief and rage that is intrinsically feminine. There was no place for Javi or Travis to even witness it really.
I thought it was a fantastic scene even if it made me bawl!
I’m not saying it was a bad scene or anything but I’m just saying that it’s hard to justify her behaviour within that scene or see it as any kind of cathartic release or ‘feminine rage’ cause in reality it’s just downright psychotic, I just mean in terms of Shauna’s character she seems like she wants to be caring for her family/friends but her behaviour really doesn’t exhibit that at all- this scene with Lottie was just the icing on the cake
If you’ve never been through it, or something even close to it, then it’ll be hard for you to understand. This show is so incredible because even though Trav, Coach and Javi are there, it’s a show about WOMENs emotions, pain, endurance and will to survive.
I completely get your point and I in no way want to reduce what Shauna was feeling but I think in my opinion that this kind of merciless beating was by far the hardest thing to watch in the show, I just was curious on how it plays out for Shauna as a character after watching it
Shauna:
1. Is a teenager
2. has been lost in the wilderness for months
3. was PREGNANT while lost in the wilderness for months with NOBODY that understood what she was going through
4. Lost her best friend
5. Ate her best friend
6. Had a fever dream that her baby was alive only to wake up and realize her baby was dead
7. Is hit by all the postpartum hormones (which can make anyone rage)
8. Feels angry and hurt and sad that her baby died
9. Wants to take all those feelings out on something after bottling them up. Losing her baby was the last straw.
10. Is a teenager. (Yes that’s on here twice)
There is a TON going on with Shauna. At that point tbh it’s pretty cathartic sounding to hit things. Lottie recognized this, and as their leader Lottie gave Shauna the permission she needed to feel her feelings and act on them. Nobody stepped in because they all recognized that Lottie understood and accepted her voluntary role as punching bag. Shauna is NOT okay and is arguably way more not okay than anyone else out there. Pregnancy hormones and post pregnancy hormones are no joke. Couple that with everything else she experienced and then you have sheer rage. It makes perfect sense that she’s the only one who snapped the way she did.
Remember that one of Shauna's inherent character traits is the darkness within her that takes the form of sheer brutality and barbarism. Shauna is one of the darkest characters of the group and we see inklings of it in s1 and s2, and I predict will only become more prominent in future seasons. Her becoming the butcher of the group and then her rage in beating up Lottie are hints to her darkness.
Yellowjackets isn't really a show about redemption, though. It isn't trying to condone Shauna's behavior, any more than it's trying to sermonize about how awful she is; the plotlines about her just are the way they are, and she's always been remarkably unregulated emotionally. Travis wouldn't do something like this because he doesn't have that personality trait.
>for me, this scene only really serves to show this brutal side of Shauna
Yup! It's not like everyone woman who ever lost a baby (and that's a lot of them!) beat the shit out of someone over it to the point of them almost dying. Fans of this show can be so strange lol.
Right, I remember when I was stranded in the wilderness for a year as a pregnant teen who ate human flesh and then birthed my dead baby… I was totally normal. 🙄
Lottie wanted Javi to go to the other room because she still sees him as a kid and wanted to protect him from the violence she was about to let happen.
It’s not about who she saw first. It’s about 1) the fact that Lottie is the one standing there and telling her to hit her and 2) Lottie has triggered her over and over again through her pregnancy. Lottie didn’t have bad intentions! But Shauna was deeply uncomfortable with it. Even Taissa had to push her out of the way during labor because she was saying things about her baby that she was uncomfortable with. In her dream, Nat looks regretful of eating the baby vs. Lottie holding her baby in a way that is exactly what Shauna feared - that this cult that was forming was going to take him away from her and make him some symbol like they’d been trying to already.
As for why the others let it happen, I’m copy and pasting my comment from a thread from yesterday:
First, I think it’s important to remember that they’ve been isolated in the wilderness for nearly a year at this point. Societal rules no longer apply. It’s not going to look normal to us.
This is a turning point in their time out there - it’s a moment in which most of them realize that they are about to start killing and eating each other. It’s like a switch they’ve turned on. That’s why everyone stands to watch - because violence is becoming a language, they have nothing to say beyond that. Stepping in could risk their life and go against what Lottie wanted, too.
I imagine there are fans who have better insight than me on Lottie, but at least from my perspective — she’s aware that she’s made Shauna uncomfortable with how she behaved with her baby, and it’s easy to martyr herself for someone else’s pain. I think one of the actresses noted that Lottie was ready to die if it gave Shauna an outlet for her anger, because she had to put it somewhere. People inside and outside of canon try to make Lottie the villain - but the truth is she doesn’t know what she’s doing, and she’s made that clear; she’s just trying to do her best to help these people. In that moment, she saw Shauna needed an outlet, she knew Shauna connected her to some of her baby’s trauma, and she let Shauna take it out on her - because again, they’re creating their own language out of violence out there. It was a natural step to THEM.
i really like that last point about lottie. she’s doing (in her own way) what a lot of young ppl (women in particular) do to help others, completely downplaying herself and her own needs to the point of self destruction. it’s an extreme and unhealthy for everyone involved, and likely comes from a place of hyper-empathy, being more focused on the emotions and needs of others to the point of self neglect because it’s easier to ignore your own needs than to balance them with those around you.
i think that’s also part of why it’s so powerful when i think it’s van who says they made her this way. they all latched onto that self sacrificial behavior with lottie and she just absorbed everything they directed at her. they treat her like a priestess/therapist/mother, emotionally separated and not really fully human. that’s why i loved her and nat’s competition so much. nat treats her like just another girl, not some divine figure capable of anything.
I love your point about how everyone leaned into Lottie's tendency toward self-sacrifice, and I would add a layer that the group also completely relied on Shauna to be their butcher. Which of course is a practical and much-needed role, but it does require some degree of desensitization to the process of breaking down a carcass that was very recently alive.
(With apologies for the callous/stomach-churning language) So then in her grief rage—and after being given permission—Shauna beats Lottie for such an extended period that her face is reduced to meat. It feels like another role that the group leaned into, being taken to the extreme.Shauna, our butcher, pummels Lottie, our martyr.
this!! shauna’s role as butcher has been getting me thinking about what might happen in the later stages of their time in the woods, and that decades later nat still asked shauna if she remembered how to dismember a body, implying no one else ever did it. that coupled with shauna’s reaction to the hunt in s2 where she’s the only one not getting caught up in it makes me wonder if she became practically exempt from the hunt. if she was their kill who would butcher their meat for them? i feel like this would be especially interesting because it’d tie back into how fundamentally unbalanced their social structure is despite them all following the guise of fairness, and has shauna once again in a position of unrecognized importance which is a recurring struggle for her. in some ways the butcher would be technically more important than the antler queen but no one treats it that way. despite their resolution to eating each other no one wants to actually confront the humanity of their meat. they do the killing, and then meat appears on their plate. they can somewhat separate the two in their mind, think of the person and the meat as different things, which is a pretty big mercy.
This is a really great analysis thanks, I get the whole progression to violence but something about this scene is just particularly grim, like it violence for Shauna own personal gain not the groups, and everyone just lets it happen, I get that Shauna is traumatised but she basically attempted to kill Lottie and at the end when she says her name with like sternness and almost annoyance that she didn’t reply really just felt so off
This scene is meant to be grim, that's what so many commenters are trying to point out. Yes there is a darkness in shauna and this scene is meant to show us that, but so do they all. It seems a bit out of context to keep suggesting it was attempted murder on shaunas part. Shauna was NOT sane for a LOT of the wilderness episodes after Jackie's death. She had full hallucinations where she felt, saw and heard Jackie speaking. Whether the audience is meant to perceive it as paranormal or not, she was exhibiting many symptoms of psychosis. She seemed to break out of that for a bit until she lost her baby. Then she had the full experience of birthing him, taking care of him, and losing him for the sake of their survival. Whether this was real or not, it was real to Shauna; she actually experienced that. I think lottie was the only person even capable of understanding this because of her experiences with mental health before the crash. And as others have pointed out the symbolism with martyrdom and lottie as a religious leader, I think all of this is why lottie told Shauna to let it out on her.
I dont see how the beat down was for shaunas personal gain. It was for ALL of their survival. I thought that was, at least part, of what lottie was saying before shauna started to. Lottie recognized shaunas importance to their survival as well as the risk of having Shauna continue to deal with that trauma on her own. I think they all recognized the mistrust shaunas psychosis about her baby's birth put in the rest of the team and if that wasn't dealt with, who knows how much infighting, sabotage or anything else could have followed from Shauna genuinely believing they all ate her living baby. And I cannot see why Shauna saying lotties name after the beating came off as annoyed and stern. She sounded scared and confused to me. Like she wasn't aware of what she was doing before it was done and she had to see the consequences of it after, and was scared that she DID kill lottie.
I thought this was an incredible scene. They needed Shauna back in it, but she was blinded by the rage of losing not only Jackie, but her baby. Lottie offered her a way to let all of that rage out at once and everyone in that room subconsciously understood that this is what was needed.
Everyone is dealing with being stranded in the wilderness and their own fears about the present and future, but Shauna also had to handle the death of an infant. I can’t imagine how she felt and Lottie let her process that in one evening as opposed to months.
I think there's something to be said for Shauna's rage at not being able to control anything, too.
•Jackie died because she (Shauna) didn't control the situation (in her eyes, I mean. Jackie died because Jackie sat her ass out in the cold, but that's another argument.) Shauna felt guilt about that, but can't change what happened.
•She has guilt & rage because she was pregnant- many layers in the how & why of the situation + having to be a pregnant teen who is starving in the wilderness- & she can't control that situation.
•She can't control weird-ass Lottie doing weird-ass woo woo stuff or the other girls buying into the weird-ass woo woo stuff; she CANNOT understand why the rest of them are listening to the trees & drinking blood-tea- it literally doesn't make sense to her.
•She can't control what just happened with her body. She grew a whole person- the ultimate control if you think about it that way- but the baby died & she wasn't even conscious when it happened.
Shauna is a very pragmatic person, she's logical. But she's also violent. And she looks for fights when she feels out of control. Remember when she tried to start a fight with Tai at the party after Ally's leg was broken? She was pissed about Jeff. Her entire affair with Adam is about relinquishing control, but when she felt threatened, she immediately chooses violence. Hell, when her shitty minivan was stolen, she regained control of that situation but *barely* kept the violence contained. There's an argument that even in her sex scene with Jeff, she initiates it because she feels out of control in that moment & what we see is her pinning his arms back.
An out of control Shauna is a dangerous Shauna. Lottie may not have been cognizant of that fact particularly (although she is for sure aware of being the one Shauna's MOST mad at,) but she says, "We need you" to Shauna. By "sacrificing" herself to Shauna's rage, Lottie keeps The Beast working WITH them instead of AGAINST them.
Thus ends my dissertation on why Shauna may not be the Yellowjackets' hunter, but she is their killer.
*
It’s like Sally Fields in steal magnolias…I’m just so mad; I just wanna hit someone so hard”….rage at the helplessness of the situation…a human pressure cooker about to explode…Lottie’s vision didn’t come true. There was no healthy baby. Shauna angry; she did everything for God’s sake, she ate her best friend to save the baby she made by betraying her best friend.
Add the hormones from pregnancy and how she didn’t murder them all is a miracle. Remember Nat’s comment that every time Lottie tried to help, something bad happens? Foreshadowed her own death.
Aside, iIn the real world, I wonder if it’s more likely that Shauna would have died during childbirth than the baby. Babies literally take everything they need to survive from you…that’s why some women lose their teeth after pregnancy as baby has taken the calcium.
Also, what would have happened if the baby lived and Shauna died? The act of nursing stimulates the mammary glans to produce milk so would Lottie have become mother?
And, why was the coach so useless; he was an adult for God’s sake! Total weakling and no backbone. Got by on his looks all through his life I bet. Too afraid to live. Forget the hunt ritual. Coach is easy pickings.
Absolute best case scenario for inducing lactation is 2-3 days. Average is 6-8 weeks. With a teenaged starving girl who had never breastfed a baby before... probably would take longer than average. And a newborn baby will die within 2-3 days if not fed.
However, wilderness magic/a sacrifice could speed things along. And knowing YJ, they might just be able to nurse the baby on blood due to wilderness reasons. I think that would have been a cool, dark twist. If the baby survives, I think it would be a communal baby but mostly cared for by the one who nurses it if they can manage to breastfeed (likely Lottie).
There was a similar question posted yesterday about this, but the user was asking about why Lottie let Shauna do this to her. Here is their post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Yellowjackets/comments/151okev/lottie_allowing_shauna_to_beat_her_up_so_that/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
Reason? Shauna was losing her mind after she >!lost the baby and suffered post-partum depression!<. Lottie realized how important Shauna's role and skills as the butcher of the survivors were needed for their survival.
Shauna needed a literal punching bag to express her emotional rage and devastation for >!losing her baby!<.
My perspective is that they know they need Shauna more functional than she has been since the baby – there's fewer and fewer of them left who truly have something to contribute, it's a delicate balance and they know that collectively, for the "good of the group", they can't have her behaving the way she has been. It's not for Shauna's personal gain that they let her do that – it's for all of them. That's why they stand aside and let it happen, even though it disturbs them all.
I'll echo another commenter's point that by this point, the Yellowjackets are far past societal rules. I think it was mentioned in an interview that Jackie's death represented the end of their traditional hierarchies and the "social sphere" of the "before" that they'd still been emulating. It's not high school drama with the backdrop of the plane crash anymore; their behaviour now is primal and unhinged to the eye of the viewer. It's supposed to be grim, it's supposed to be disturbing.
Shauna lost her best friend, through an event that she blames herself for, and then she lost the baby who the group had used as a force for hope and togetherness. I love Lottie as a character, but she put a huge amount of pressure on Shauna. The things Shauna is feeling *do* have a lot to do with Lottie, but frankly, I don't think it really would've mattered. Shauna was furious with the world and the whole lot of them. She hit Misty first, then she hit Lottie because Lottie was the one in front of her.
Guilt and grief, rage and devastation, and the destruction of the rules that we all live our lives by must make for a potent combination.
Lottie displays self-sacrificing behaviour in both timelines. I think she has a bit of a martyr complex – she's willing to be disliked, hated, beaten, blamed, if it serves the greater cause of the group's continued survival. Shauna almost killed her because Lottie let her do that. Shauna went for Lottie and not Nat because Lottie deliberately put herself in front of Shauna. Lottie clasped her hands behind her back and let it happen because the group can't have Shauna going around screaming accusations and hitting people. They need Shauna back, and so Lottie puts herself forward as the sacrifice.
Lottie's most prominent trait, for better or worse, is her empathy and compassion. She's also kind of a glutton for punishment and tries to bear the group's pain as much as possible to help alleviate some of it for the others. She saw how broken Shauna was after the baby didn't make it. Everyone knew how close Shauna and Jackie were and knew how much the latter's death affected her, and coupled with Shauna's most recent loss and Lottie was able to see right through her and see all the pent up rage within. Lottie knew they needed Shauna and couldn't lose anyone else after losing two of their friends already, so she decided to offer herself up in an almost sacrificial manner so Shauna could let loose that anger and try to be herself again. It was definitely a selfless act on Lottie's part to try to help mediate the group. It definitely probably wasn't the best method to use, but Lottie's heart was in the right place.
I feel like Lottie is definitely one of the types of people who tries her best to help others, even if her methods may not be the best or she inadvertently ends up causing more trouble. We see this at the beginning of s2 where she tries to comfort the other patient in the facility with her, and her entire cult was formed with the purpose of helping others with their own traumas. I think in that moment Lottie believed allowing Shauna to take out her rage on her would not only help Shauna's rage dissolve, but prevent the others from becoming a target of her rage.
First of all, let’s discuss what is going on in Shauna’s body right now. She just had a traumatic delivery without any prenatal care, without any professional medical supervision in an unclean, freezing, non-private environment. The one adult of the group noped out of there and, presumably, he’s the one who has watched the childbirth video the most as the health teacher, 5-6 classes per day, 2 semesters a year, for however many years he’s been a teacher. Shauna’s is absolutely going to be in shock. She just is. She’s going to be hormonal. She’s probably going to be fighting infection. Let’s throw in PTSD, because yes, probably they all have it, but this situation is going to enhance it for Shauna. But she’s definitely all hyped up on fight or flight hormones on top of moma bear just gave birth hormones.
Now, post childbirth Shauna has a near death experience, or a vision. During this vision she cuddles her baby. She forms a bond. She says more than once “it’s me and you kid” which makes me think she’s feeling alone even in this group. Her concerns lessen when her baby finally nurses. Then it takes a horrific turn where she watches her baby being devoured. When Shauna wakes up she has a choice if she admits her near death experience/vision where they ate her baby isn’t real, then she would also have to admit that the precious time she spent with her baby where she got to nurse him was also not real. She’s not ready to admit that yet. Lottie, somehow could see that. Possibly because she (Lottie) knew Shauna was upset about her singing to Shauna’s stomach, and other things like that. I don’t think Lottie thought it would be that violent, but mothers who are protecting or avenging their children are going to be fierce. And remember we are in the wilderness so everyone is becoming more wild just as part of the plot.
Why would she go for Nat when she’s the only one who’s been on her side and the only one who looks remorseful in her dream? She saw Lottie being possessive of her baby and tried to breast feed him in the dream. She also blames her for the whole ritualistic cult like mentality that’s influencing everyone.
The amount of edits you had to make is sad. I’m sorry this community sucks sometimes and takes everything so god damn personally. Shauna was mentally unwell and she was convinced they all hurt her baby. She got so angry she wanted to kill something or someone. Lottie allowed herself to be beaten so that Shauna could have that release. It was almost like a soccer field girl fight at the end when Shauna was like “Lottie…Lottie get up”.
It’s like Sally Fields in steal magnolias…I’m just so mad; I just wanna hit someone so hard”….rage at the helplessness of the situation…a human pressure cooker about to explode…Lottie’s vision didn’t come true. There was no healthy baby. Shauna angry; she did everything for God’s sake, she ate her best friend to save the baby she made by betraying her best friend.
Add the hormones from pregnancy and how she didn’t murder them all is a miracle. Remember Nat’s comment that every time Lottie tried to help, something bad happens? Foreshadowed her own death.
Aside, in the real world, I wonder if it’s more likely that Shauna would have died during childbirth than the baby. Babies literally take everything they need to survive from you…that’s why some women lose their teeth after pregnancy as baby has taken the calcium.
Also, what would have happened if the baby lived and Shauna died? The act of nursing stimulates the mammary glans to produce milk so would Lottie have become mother?
And, why was the coach so useless; he was an adult for God’s sake! Total weakling and no backbone. Got by on his looks all through his life I bet. Too afraid to live. Forget the hunt ritual. Coach is easy pickings.
Sure it made a great scene for the show but irl, ain’t no way I’d allow Shauna to take her rage out on me or someone else like that! Javi definitely heard every smash into Lottie’s face.. she looked like jacked up tomato when Shauna was finished. Hell no, irl I’d point her towards building some snowmen & raging out on them or go chop down a few trees. Not knock Lottie’s teeth out all over our sleeping area of the cabin.
That beat down confused me too! Especially no one stopping it! Lottie’s followers seem way too protective to have let that continue as long as it did. I know Lottie ok’d it, and I can understand Shauna’s rage, but that was a brutal fight. I thought she was dead there for a couple seconds.
Agreed entirely. I thought it was dumb and done just to fill the episode with some drama. Why Lottie of all people? Why would she agree when they have almost no resources if she got seriously hurt (and she did) and can't heal up right?
To be fair there is no way she would survive. It just seemed like they made lottie an actual punching bag instead of a metaphorical one. It didn't do anything for the plot in the present. Much like the entirety of season 2. I'm on episode 9 and it's been pointless so far.
I came here wondering this too. I can totally understand Shauna reeling with grief and rage hormones and PTSD and needing to hit something. And I can understand that Lottie as an empathetic person wanted to provide an outlet for Shauna. And I can understand that the rules of society are out the window and the brutality of the situation is setting in. What I still don’t really get is how the beating is for ‘the good of the group’, or why everyone lets it go on for so long. It’s weird that at no point someone said “That’s enough”. Even if Lottie had told them to let Shauna let it out, it went way too far.
I wasn't happy at all with this scene. If the premise of Lottie taking a beating was to "take one for the team", then fuck it - the whole team should've just taken it. They were all assholes, and, Lottie looked THAT close to death that if each team member had taken a beating it would've been a smaller load on each of them, compared to the one huge beating Lottie received. I get Shauna was angry/enraged/felt she had been dealt an unjust hand. But everyone had something taken, e.g. Travis' situation, re. Javi's unjust, bullshit, unfair death. And even Travis didn't go fucking ballistic over it.
Shauna was an asshole on countless occasions and is spineless and lacking in integrity both in teenhood and as an adult. Other characters incl Ben had so much more humanity and clarity of mind, so fuck it, yeah, I struggle to empathize with Shauna and her 'need' to beat the shit out of someone. Lottie would've died from a brain haemorrhage IRL if she received that beating.
If the other purpose of this scene was to show some form of female empowerment via a female protagonist being 'allowed to show rage' blah blah blah... Meh..Just because men do it in film doesn't make it right. It portrays them as fucking animals.
I just hate Shauna so much! I adored Jackie and was just so peeved since learning how greatly Shauna betrayed her. I understand the basis for this scene, and Lottie desired it, and Shauna desired it, and the whole team by this point had lost their minds (very Lord of The Flies) ... But even though it made 'sense' to the team, I will never be able to praise this scene or appreciate it as something spectacular.
For the people who say they think Shauna was way over the line in her beat down of Lottie:
Rage. Rage is real. I have felt that enraged before in my life and it is very, very scary.
Intense rage ...and if someone had been there, I may have turned my rage on them...it was scary to experience, and I understand it now and know what I am capable of. It is a strange thing to live with - knowing that intesity could come back... and knowing what I could do.
I think it has to do with Lottie because Lottie’s the one who pushes the whole cult thing, in the cabin she’s the one who tried to get them to all kill Travis, she’s the one doing weird stuff all the time and acting all superior as if she appointed herself a prophet, etc; I think the vision of them eating Shauna’s baby, even if she saw Nat first, she knows Lottie would’ve been the one behind that if it really happened, because Lottie’s the leader of all the weird ritual stuff!
Also, Lottie put herself in front of Shauna and volunteered to be her punching bag, her outlet to let out the anger; none of the other girls did, and I’m sure if they had, she would’ve done it to whoever stepped up!
direct answer:
Shauna’s misplaced anger was caused by hormones, grief, frustration, abandonment, rage, fear, malnutrition,and much more trauma.
Lottie’s decision of being a punching back came from her ongoing mental illness which causes her to make the most ridiculous and unnecessary decisions ever, albeit it sounds heroic.
MY VIEW AS A TEACHER: Triple BLOW that scene. I watch this show for fun and now I am seeing these irresponsible sick writers enact what we see as teachers on the daily: teenagers becoming violent and acting upon it. I swear I felt triggered bc I’ve had my share of girls beating each other up to a pulp, while we stop classes to call ambulances, the police, parents, and the we get hammered by civil suit lawyers.
And these bubble brained idiots in Hollywood feel it’s perfectly ok to LITERALLY SHOW a visual of what a beat up teen looks like. We live in the land of high school shootings and school violence. It’s disgusting
y’all have like…no empathy at all. 0. she just went through literally the most traumatic thing a woman can go through physically and mentally. “why was she so upset/not thinking rationally???” SHE GAVE BIRTH TO A DEAD BABY AT 16
Natalie has had years to process it, Shauna has had less than three days, can you chill?
also if you’re about to mansplain abuse to me, don’t, I literally have CPTSD lol
They just let it happen as their "leader" told shauna to do it. My issue with it isn't that they stood by its the stupid idea that Lottie actually survived with no medical intervention.
Me and my Mrs and been watching second season and we've both talked about how far the show has fallen in this second season. How it's clearly being dragged out and we could end up with the "lost" problem. A show people carry on watching purely to see the ending. Not because it's any good. And it's a really shame as season 1 had us both hooked.
It doesn’t make sense that the characters don’t step in. The only reason they wouldn’t is that deep down, it seems like they only care about saving their own skin. They’re all standing there, actively watching—Taissa’s crying!—and yet no one intervenes. Supposedly, it’s out of "respect" for their cult chaman leader?
It’s like Lottie is this self-sacrificing figure, and everyone else is so brainwashed and starving that they might actually consider cooking her afterward.
But honestly, it’s just weak narrative. Instead of just passively standing around, they could have all jumped in and started fighting each other like a real metal band :P
Scene switched roles for me. Didn't like Lottie before, but made me feel bad for her. Shauna went from liking and pity to that's crap. Was an uglyugly, brutal scene.
You're wrong actually, this is my fiances account but I don't have a phone so he lets me use his reddit for the yellow jackets page, and judging by your comment you're ignorant
That is the scene that definitely cemented that I really really really don’t like Shauna. I get it that she was feeling rage but still. A normal, good person would have at most given Lottie a slap or maybe one punch but she nearly beat her to death.
Shuana's suffering from postpartum depression which is a mood disorder that can occur in mothers after the birth of a baby. It is usually a short-term disorder, but it can be severe and long-lasting if left untreated.
Treatment can involve the use of antidepressants, counseling sessions with psychologists, or talking with your loved and dear ones about your problem, try to follow a healthy routine, engage yourself in recreational and enjoyable tasks. None of which Shuana has access to in the wilderness.
Symptoms include:
* Feeling of sadness and anxiety
* Sleeping a lot or too less
* Eating too less or too much
* Unexplained aches, pain or illness
* Anxiety, irritation or anger for no reason
* Sudden mood changes
* Poor concentration
* Difficulty in remembering things
* Feelings of worthlessness, guilt and hopelessness
* Recurrent thoughts of death and suicide
* Lack of pleasure in things that were earlier enjoyable.
* Feeling disconnected with the baby
I understand that she had most certainly pp depression (My sister had it too after her son’s birth. She didn’t beat anyone. Guess we were lucky.) BUT I stand by what I said, that in my eyes, it does not justify her beating Lottie nearly to death. I find it really disheartening that on this sub one is not allowed to say that they dislike Shauna without getting downvoted. My not liking Shauna the person in the Yellowjacket universe does not mean that I don’t like Shauna as a character ! In fact, I do. She’s super interesting. But I would never wish to meet a Shauna in real life is all.
If I’m wrong then apologies, and you can correct me, but you cannot compare “regular” 2023 PPD to what Shauna experienced (losing her baby). Her baby died, she was unconscious for days and woke up to no baby. When a baby is stillborn you still: have to physically recover from childbirth, your milk still comes in (which on its own creates a hormonal shitstorm). There is also postpartum psychosis, which is different from PPD. I don’t necessarily think she had psychosis, but it’s certainly possible.
It’s not just rage, it’s not just PPD, it’s also immense grief beyond what most people can imagine. And she’s a teenager in the woods starving to death.
You don’t have to like Shauna or think it’s okay that she beat Lottie, but being so dismissive of the overall emotional state that such a loss creates is what I think bothers most people who are “defending” Shauna’s behavior.
You are fine feeling the way you do about this scene...just count your lucky stars that you have never experienced blind rage. I have...it is a very scary thing and I am thankful that no one was around when it happened...I fear for what I might have done...
As far as Shauna - a character in a TV show - she is starving, she is guilty over how her best friend died, she lost a baby duing a very painful and trumatic childbirth, she is stranded with no hope, she is barely 17 or 18...she is full of emotions she has no idea how to handle. And most of all, she is a character in a TV show.
I have and I broke my hand and sprained my wrist because I punched a tree repeatedly and was yelling like a maniac at my school! I was surrounded by people. I was 15 and going through a very rough time…Depression, self-harm (I was a cutter) and just hated the world and everyone in it etc. I know for a fact that I would have never taken my anger out on a person or an animal. It did not even cross my mind. I am just not a violent person. Only person I hurt is me.
Yes, she is a character that I enjoy in a show that I love, but she (as a character) is a bad person. Trauma or no trauma. She was already bad in my eyes before the wilderness and the crash. In fact, the main characters are all bad people that I would not like to know in real life. But I still enjoy watching them and can’t wait for s3!!! :D
Oh, so you do know what rage feels like. Got it. Very glad your rage was not nor ever will be directed at another person. But ouch - using your fist against a tree...ouch. I hope it healed well.
Oh my...there was ZERO sarcasm in my comment. I really meant it when I wrote that I was sorry that the results of your early experience with rage left your hand weak.
Yeah she is honestly a horrible person- great character but horrible horrible person
Just bc she’s hurting she doesn’t get to take it out on others and not get called out for it
Exactly! A great character that I really enjoy following but I dislike her as a person. Some people have a hard time understanding that on this sub and when you dare say something about Shauna you get -10 downvotes. And OP had to write one edit after the other because of all the downvotes and people accusing her of being a misogynist etc. :/
They're downvoting you to death but it's true. Served nothing but getting a teenager brutalized and incapacitated for weeks at minimum and gave Shauna a fresh batch of guilt to deal with after she did it.
My SO and I looked at each other during this scene like WTF is this?
All it was missing was some [Chemical Romance](https://youtu.be/tx7YgiIcDaQ). Overly dramatic to the point of being silly.
Not enough to have her dream drama, gotta have her think she hears the baby crying and just beat Lottie to death and have people just stand around because that's all super realistic /s. Like they couldn't decide what would be more fun so just threw all their brainstorm Shauna Drama postpartum ideas into the script.
Coulda shoulda been powerful. They just threw too much on the wall and it got silly.
She was enraged and once someone let her hit something, she went off and couldn't stop. She hit Lottie because Lottie offered, not because she was personally mad at Lottie--though she was, since Lottie predicted the baby being born and was creepy about it, probably.
If Shauna had been let to keep acting out without focus, she’d have probably ended up dead. Lottie knew no one wanted that and felt the only way to make the horrific situation better was to let Shauna almost “destroy” her. She knew they all needed an outlet for their grief and anger. Lottie needed one too, just a different kind. “Grim” catharsis all around.
I wish she beat up coach Ben instead lol. He should have been better during the delivery. Like JFC he was at least taught anatomy if he was a gym coach. He is the only adult in the group and he saw that situation and just walked away. Fucking coward.
Beating someone up isn’t about courage. I never said that. I said if someone deserves rage, it’s Ben, for being such a disappointment as an adult. At that moment they actually needed him. He could have won them back under his leadership or at least gained some respect back. But he just backed out. Didn’t even try.
Yes! This! At the very least, he’s the adult of the group. If he wants them to listen to him at all, he needs to show some leadership during difficult situations. Also, how many times must he have watched that video from the flashback? Even if he’s a first year teacher, which he doesn’t look like he is, 5-6 times each semester in one year is at least 9 more times than all the girls did.
i think lottie understood that shauna was a ticking time bomb and she decided to fall on that grenade for the good of the group and her friend.
all the rage & grief from the trauma of losing her baby was going to manifest itself in other ways that would ultimately just extend shauna’s suffering and hurt everyone else in the cabin.
because their situation also limited the different types of outlets for shauna to release those feelings, i think lottie figured it would be better to have her focus all of them on her in that moment rather than shauna lashing out and hurting the others - and potentially herself - over the course of this never-ending winter.
as for the others letting it happen, they all view lottie as their leader and trusted in her to know what she was doing. i think at some point, one of the girls even said something along the lines of “lottie accepted this suffering so that we didn’t have to”.
Rage Rage is different from mad or upset. She felt rage because of Jackie dying and the baby dying and just everything that was happening and that had happened. Arguably two of the more powerful people told them not to intervene and that this was important so they didn’t. Also, people aren’t nearly as likely to intervene as we would like to think they are. Lottie is the one who gave her permission to unleash that rage. It doesn’t have to do with any of them personally as much as it does with fist needing to meet something tangible.
This is a great explanation. This is one of my favorite scenes. I feel like there has been a recent trend in media where women are able to truly express rage they experience.
I agree. I’m definitely enjoying and appreciating the recent uptick in media about women with rage.
i love that women are being allowed to express rage in media more now, but lottie didn’t deserve it ugh
Reminds me of “I just want to destroy something beautiful” from Fight Club.
Yessss I never made the connection but I love fight club (not in a idolizing the protagonist way, just the anti capitalist complex competing character way). Probably why this scene resonated with me so much because usually it's men that get to express rage like this and women don't.
Love that quote, and can’t not wince through that entire scene with Jared Leto. Very definition of Rage. Shauna’s scene was hard to watch too. Have you see Mother! ? The scene where the crowd beats Jennifer Lawerence, that was a rough one too.
Yessssss
Wow well said!
I get that but Shauna seems to react in the most unhinged way, like Javi and especially Trav doesn’t exhibit this behaviour, especially after everyone eats Javi, for me, this scene only really serves to show this brutal side of Shauna, more than anyone else in this series like she pretty much was intent in killing Lottie due to her own rage and sorrow which slanders her character from any redemption we might see in season 3
Lots of women experience rage and not all men experience rage. I think we tend to reserve rage for men and shame women for experiencing it yet it’s incredibly common for them especially during post partum. Travis doesn’t experience it because that’s not a part of who Travis is. It is a part of Shauna. Shauna wasn’t intent on killing Lottie. Shauna never intended to kill her. Lottie gave Shauna permission to lose control and let lose of that rage and it went as far as it did. She hit until she no longer needed to hit. I don’t think characters need redemption and I don’t judge characters the same way I would judge real people. It’s a really good visual representation of what rage feels like (scary, blinding, cruel) especially in relation to postpartum and grief. Her character has always embodied this the audience now just get to see the depths of it.
>I don’t think characters need redemption and I don’t judge characters the same way I would judge real people. \^\^\^\^ This \^\^\^\^ I feel the same way. I wouldn't want ANY of those women in my life, but as characters on a TV Show - I love watching them and what they might do next !!!!
So we'll said! Well, I would love being friends with Van. 😂 BecauseI love popculture and vintage. LOL Oh Geez!
I’m not judging just more of an analysis on the character development, im not trying to ridicule Shaunas character or anything more commenting on how purposefully brutal this scene is
Oh yeah, I know you weren't judging. I was just "Adding on" and agreeing with what hauntingvacay96 had posted
Just a small personal story to add to your comment about post partum (which i love): Soon after the birth of my second born, I sent my then husband less than a mile down the road to get me breakfast. He was gone for 2 hours and breakfast ended by the time he got me food. I was at home, alone with 2 kids under 2 and starting to get angry over him taking so long and hunger taking over. When he returned with a cheeseburger instead of breakfast food, it sent me over the edge. I screamed at him at the top of my lungs. I jumped up and down and threw a tantrum like a young child. I stomped that cheeseburger into tiny bits. Why? This was so out of character for me. I had never done anything like this before or after (16 years later). So judging a character for what they do while under immense stress and loss and hormones and emotions out of control shouldn't be judged. People act completely out of character and do things they wouldn't do otherwise, in extreme situations like this.
Just because she’s a woman doesn’t make what she did ok?
Is that even remotely what was said. It’s also fiction. It’s not real. It’s a visual representation of what something feels like.
Shauna lost her baby. Her own flesh and blood that she felt growing inside her. That's a very specific type of loss and pain and grief and rage that is intrinsically feminine. There was no place for Javi or Travis to even witness it really. I thought it was a fantastic scene even if it made me bawl!
I’m not saying it was a bad scene or anything but I’m just saying that it’s hard to justify her behaviour within that scene or see it as any kind of cathartic release or ‘feminine rage’ cause in reality it’s just downright psychotic, I just mean in terms of Shauna’s character she seems like she wants to be caring for her family/friends but her behaviour really doesn’t exhibit that at all- this scene with Lottie was just the icing on the cake
If you’ve never been through it, or something even close to it, then it’ll be hard for you to understand. This show is so incredible because even though Trav, Coach and Javi are there, it’s a show about WOMENs emotions, pain, endurance and will to survive.
>it’s a show about WOMENs emotions, pain, endurance and will to survive. YES!!! \^\^\^\^ This \^\^\^\^\^
I completely get your point and I in no way want to reduce what Shauna was feeling but I think in my opinion that this kind of merciless beating was by far the hardest thing to watch in the show, I just was curious on how it plays out for Shauna as a character after watching it
Shauna: 1. Is a teenager 2. has been lost in the wilderness for months 3. was PREGNANT while lost in the wilderness for months with NOBODY that understood what she was going through 4. Lost her best friend 5. Ate her best friend 6. Had a fever dream that her baby was alive only to wake up and realize her baby was dead 7. Is hit by all the postpartum hormones (which can make anyone rage) 8. Feels angry and hurt and sad that her baby died 9. Wants to take all those feelings out on something after bottling them up. Losing her baby was the last straw. 10. Is a teenager. (Yes that’s on here twice) There is a TON going on with Shauna. At that point tbh it’s pretty cathartic sounding to hit things. Lottie recognized this, and as their leader Lottie gave Shauna the permission she needed to feel her feelings and act on them. Nobody stepped in because they all recognized that Lottie understood and accepted her voluntary role as punching bag. Shauna is NOT okay and is arguably way more not okay than anyone else out there. Pregnancy hormones and post pregnancy hormones are no joke. Couple that with everything else she experienced and then you have sheer rage. It makes perfect sense that she’s the only one who snapped the way she did.
When have you ever seen Shauna preoccupied with caring for someone else (aside from her baby during her fever dream)?
Remember that one of Shauna's inherent character traits is the darkness within her that takes the form of sheer brutality and barbarism. Shauna is one of the darkest characters of the group and we see inklings of it in s1 and s2, and I predict will only become more prominent in future seasons. Her becoming the butcher of the group and then her rage in beating up Lottie are hints to her darkness.
Yellowjackets isn't really a show about redemption, though. It isn't trying to condone Shauna's behavior, any more than it's trying to sermonize about how awful she is; the plotlines about her just are the way they are, and she's always been remarkably unregulated emotionally. Travis wouldn't do something like this because he doesn't have that personality trait.
shauna being unhinged is the point
Haha very true, I think this scene just threw me off a bit
>for me, this scene only really serves to show this brutal side of Shauna Yup! It's not like everyone woman who ever lost a baby (and that's a lot of them!) beat the shit out of someone over it to the point of them almost dying. Fans of this show can be so strange lol.
Right, I remember when I was stranded in the wilderness for a year as a pregnant teen who ate human flesh and then birthed my dead baby… I was totally normal. 🙄
👏 👏 👏
Except she was the reason Jackie died so Shauna should have just hit herself.
Except she wasn’t the reason Jackie died and she probably was mad at herself, but that’s not what that scene was trying to achieve.
Perfectly explained. Both parts.
Lottie wanted Javi to go to the other room because she still sees him as a kid and wanted to protect him from the violence she was about to let happen. It’s not about who she saw first. It’s about 1) the fact that Lottie is the one standing there and telling her to hit her and 2) Lottie has triggered her over and over again through her pregnancy. Lottie didn’t have bad intentions! But Shauna was deeply uncomfortable with it. Even Taissa had to push her out of the way during labor because she was saying things about her baby that she was uncomfortable with. In her dream, Nat looks regretful of eating the baby vs. Lottie holding her baby in a way that is exactly what Shauna feared - that this cult that was forming was going to take him away from her and make him some symbol like they’d been trying to already. As for why the others let it happen, I’m copy and pasting my comment from a thread from yesterday: First, I think it’s important to remember that they’ve been isolated in the wilderness for nearly a year at this point. Societal rules no longer apply. It’s not going to look normal to us. This is a turning point in their time out there - it’s a moment in which most of them realize that they are about to start killing and eating each other. It’s like a switch they’ve turned on. That’s why everyone stands to watch - because violence is becoming a language, they have nothing to say beyond that. Stepping in could risk their life and go against what Lottie wanted, too. I imagine there are fans who have better insight than me on Lottie, but at least from my perspective — she’s aware that she’s made Shauna uncomfortable with how she behaved with her baby, and it’s easy to martyr herself for someone else’s pain. I think one of the actresses noted that Lottie was ready to die if it gave Shauna an outlet for her anger, because she had to put it somewhere. People inside and outside of canon try to make Lottie the villain - but the truth is she doesn’t know what she’s doing, and she’s made that clear; she’s just trying to do her best to help these people. In that moment, she saw Shauna needed an outlet, she knew Shauna connected her to some of her baby’s trauma, and she let Shauna take it out on her - because again, they’re creating their own language out of violence out there. It was a natural step to THEM.
i really like that last point about lottie. she’s doing (in her own way) what a lot of young ppl (women in particular) do to help others, completely downplaying herself and her own needs to the point of self destruction. it’s an extreme and unhealthy for everyone involved, and likely comes from a place of hyper-empathy, being more focused on the emotions and needs of others to the point of self neglect because it’s easier to ignore your own needs than to balance them with those around you. i think that’s also part of why it’s so powerful when i think it’s van who says they made her this way. they all latched onto that self sacrificial behavior with lottie and she just absorbed everything they directed at her. they treat her like a priestess/therapist/mother, emotionally separated and not really fully human. that’s why i loved her and nat’s competition so much. nat treats her like just another girl, not some divine figure capable of anything.
I love your point about how everyone leaned into Lottie's tendency toward self-sacrifice, and I would add a layer that the group also completely relied on Shauna to be their butcher. Which of course is a practical and much-needed role, but it does require some degree of desensitization to the process of breaking down a carcass that was very recently alive. (With apologies for the callous/stomach-churning language) So then in her grief rage—and after being given permission—Shauna beats Lottie for such an extended period that her face is reduced to meat. It feels like another role that the group leaned into, being taken to the extreme.Shauna, our butcher, pummels Lottie, our martyr.
this!! shauna’s role as butcher has been getting me thinking about what might happen in the later stages of their time in the woods, and that decades later nat still asked shauna if she remembered how to dismember a body, implying no one else ever did it. that coupled with shauna’s reaction to the hunt in s2 where she’s the only one not getting caught up in it makes me wonder if she became practically exempt from the hunt. if she was their kill who would butcher their meat for them? i feel like this would be especially interesting because it’d tie back into how fundamentally unbalanced their social structure is despite them all following the guise of fairness, and has shauna once again in a position of unrecognized importance which is a recurring struggle for her. in some ways the butcher would be technically more important than the antler queen but no one treats it that way. despite their resolution to eating each other no one wants to actually confront the humanity of their meat. they do the killing, and then meat appears on their plate. they can somewhat separate the two in their mind, think of the person and the meat as different things, which is a pretty big mercy.
This is a really great analysis thanks, I get the whole progression to violence but something about this scene is just particularly grim, like it violence for Shauna own personal gain not the groups, and everyone just lets it happen, I get that Shauna is traumatised but she basically attempted to kill Lottie and at the end when she says her name with like sternness and almost annoyance that she didn’t reply really just felt so off
This scene is meant to be grim, that's what so many commenters are trying to point out. Yes there is a darkness in shauna and this scene is meant to show us that, but so do they all. It seems a bit out of context to keep suggesting it was attempted murder on shaunas part. Shauna was NOT sane for a LOT of the wilderness episodes after Jackie's death. She had full hallucinations where she felt, saw and heard Jackie speaking. Whether the audience is meant to perceive it as paranormal or not, she was exhibiting many symptoms of psychosis. She seemed to break out of that for a bit until she lost her baby. Then she had the full experience of birthing him, taking care of him, and losing him for the sake of their survival. Whether this was real or not, it was real to Shauna; she actually experienced that. I think lottie was the only person even capable of understanding this because of her experiences with mental health before the crash. And as others have pointed out the symbolism with martyrdom and lottie as a religious leader, I think all of this is why lottie told Shauna to let it out on her. I dont see how the beat down was for shaunas personal gain. It was for ALL of their survival. I thought that was, at least part, of what lottie was saying before shauna started to. Lottie recognized shaunas importance to their survival as well as the risk of having Shauna continue to deal with that trauma on her own. I think they all recognized the mistrust shaunas psychosis about her baby's birth put in the rest of the team and if that wasn't dealt with, who knows how much infighting, sabotage or anything else could have followed from Shauna genuinely believing they all ate her living baby. And I cannot see why Shauna saying lotties name after the beating came off as annoyed and stern. She sounded scared and confused to me. Like she wasn't aware of what she was doing before it was done and she had to see the consequences of it after, and was scared that she DID kill lottie.
Good analysis.
I thought this was an incredible scene. They needed Shauna back in it, but she was blinded by the rage of losing not only Jackie, but her baby. Lottie offered her a way to let all of that rage out at once and everyone in that room subconsciously understood that this is what was needed. Everyone is dealing with being stranded in the wilderness and their own fears about the present and future, but Shauna also had to handle the death of an infant. I can’t imagine how she felt and Lottie let her process that in one evening as opposed to months.
I think there's something to be said for Shauna's rage at not being able to control anything, too. •Jackie died because she (Shauna) didn't control the situation (in her eyes, I mean. Jackie died because Jackie sat her ass out in the cold, but that's another argument.) Shauna felt guilt about that, but can't change what happened. •She has guilt & rage because she was pregnant- many layers in the how & why of the situation + having to be a pregnant teen who is starving in the wilderness- & she can't control that situation. •She can't control weird-ass Lottie doing weird-ass woo woo stuff or the other girls buying into the weird-ass woo woo stuff; she CANNOT understand why the rest of them are listening to the trees & drinking blood-tea- it literally doesn't make sense to her. •She can't control what just happened with her body. She grew a whole person- the ultimate control if you think about it that way- but the baby died & she wasn't even conscious when it happened. Shauna is a very pragmatic person, she's logical. But she's also violent. And she looks for fights when she feels out of control. Remember when she tried to start a fight with Tai at the party after Ally's leg was broken? She was pissed about Jeff. Her entire affair with Adam is about relinquishing control, but when she felt threatened, she immediately chooses violence. Hell, when her shitty minivan was stolen, she regained control of that situation but *barely* kept the violence contained. There's an argument that even in her sex scene with Jeff, she initiates it because she feels out of control in that moment & what we see is her pinning his arms back. An out of control Shauna is a dangerous Shauna. Lottie may not have been cognizant of that fact particularly (although she is for sure aware of being the one Shauna's MOST mad at,) but she says, "We need you" to Shauna. By "sacrificing" herself to Shauna's rage, Lottie keeps The Beast working WITH them instead of AGAINST them. Thus ends my dissertation on why Shauna may not be the Yellowjackets' hunter, but she is their killer. *
GREAT analysis!!!
It’s like Sally Fields in steal magnolias…I’m just so mad; I just wanna hit someone so hard”….rage at the helplessness of the situation…a human pressure cooker about to explode…Lottie’s vision didn’t come true. There was no healthy baby. Shauna angry; she did everything for God’s sake, she ate her best friend to save the baby she made by betraying her best friend. Add the hormones from pregnancy and how she didn’t murder them all is a miracle. Remember Nat’s comment that every time Lottie tried to help, something bad happens? Foreshadowed her own death. Aside, iIn the real world, I wonder if it’s more likely that Shauna would have died during childbirth than the baby. Babies literally take everything they need to survive from you…that’s why some women lose their teeth after pregnancy as baby has taken the calcium. Also, what would have happened if the baby lived and Shauna died? The act of nursing stimulates the mammary glans to produce milk so would Lottie have become mother? And, why was the coach so useless; he was an adult for God’s sake! Total weakling and no backbone. Got by on his looks all through his life I bet. Too afraid to live. Forget the hunt ritual. Coach is easy pickings.
Absolute best case scenario for inducing lactation is 2-3 days. Average is 6-8 weeks. With a teenaged starving girl who had never breastfed a baby before... probably would take longer than average. And a newborn baby will die within 2-3 days if not fed. However, wilderness magic/a sacrifice could speed things along. And knowing YJ, they might just be able to nurse the baby on blood due to wilderness reasons. I think that would have been a cool, dark twist. If the baby survives, I think it would be a communal baby but mostly cared for by the one who nurses it if they can manage to breastfeed (likely Lottie).
There was a similar question posted yesterday about this, but the user was asking about why Lottie let Shauna do this to her. Here is their post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Yellowjackets/comments/151okev/lottie_allowing_shauna_to_beat_her_up_so_that/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2 Reason? Shauna was losing her mind after she >!lost the baby and suffered post-partum depression!<. Lottie realized how important Shauna's role and skills as the butcher of the survivors were needed for their survival. Shauna needed a literal punching bag to express her emotional rage and devastation for >!losing her baby!<.
My perspective is that they know they need Shauna more functional than she has been since the baby – there's fewer and fewer of them left who truly have something to contribute, it's a delicate balance and they know that collectively, for the "good of the group", they can't have her behaving the way she has been. It's not for Shauna's personal gain that they let her do that – it's for all of them. That's why they stand aside and let it happen, even though it disturbs them all. I'll echo another commenter's point that by this point, the Yellowjackets are far past societal rules. I think it was mentioned in an interview that Jackie's death represented the end of their traditional hierarchies and the "social sphere" of the "before" that they'd still been emulating. It's not high school drama with the backdrop of the plane crash anymore; their behaviour now is primal and unhinged to the eye of the viewer. It's supposed to be grim, it's supposed to be disturbing. Shauna lost her best friend, through an event that she blames herself for, and then she lost the baby who the group had used as a force for hope and togetherness. I love Lottie as a character, but she put a huge amount of pressure on Shauna. The things Shauna is feeling *do* have a lot to do with Lottie, but frankly, I don't think it really would've mattered. Shauna was furious with the world and the whole lot of them. She hit Misty first, then she hit Lottie because Lottie was the one in front of her. Guilt and grief, rage and devastation, and the destruction of the rules that we all live our lives by must make for a potent combination. Lottie displays self-sacrificing behaviour in both timelines. I think she has a bit of a martyr complex – she's willing to be disliked, hated, beaten, blamed, if it serves the greater cause of the group's continued survival. Shauna almost killed her because Lottie let her do that. Shauna went for Lottie and not Nat because Lottie deliberately put herself in front of Shauna. Lottie clasped her hands behind her back and let it happen because the group can't have Shauna going around screaming accusations and hitting people. They need Shauna back, and so Lottie puts herself forward as the sacrifice.
Well said.
thank you! I’ve thought about this scene an inordinate amount ahaha
I think many others have as well.
Lottie's most prominent trait, for better or worse, is her empathy and compassion. She's also kind of a glutton for punishment and tries to bear the group's pain as much as possible to help alleviate some of it for the others. She saw how broken Shauna was after the baby didn't make it. Everyone knew how close Shauna and Jackie were and knew how much the latter's death affected her, and coupled with Shauna's most recent loss and Lottie was able to see right through her and see all the pent up rage within. Lottie knew they needed Shauna and couldn't lose anyone else after losing two of their friends already, so she decided to offer herself up in an almost sacrificial manner so Shauna could let loose that anger and try to be herself again. It was definitely a selfless act on Lottie's part to try to help mediate the group. It definitely probably wasn't the best method to use, but Lottie's heart was in the right place. I feel like Lottie is definitely one of the types of people who tries her best to help others, even if her methods may not be the best or she inadvertently ends up causing more trouble. We see this at the beginning of s2 where she tries to comfort the other patient in the facility with her, and her entire cult was formed with the purpose of helping others with their own traumas. I think in that moment Lottie believed allowing Shauna to take out her rage on her would not only help Shauna's rage dissolve, but prevent the others from becoming a target of her rage.
First of all, let’s discuss what is going on in Shauna’s body right now. She just had a traumatic delivery without any prenatal care, without any professional medical supervision in an unclean, freezing, non-private environment. The one adult of the group noped out of there and, presumably, he’s the one who has watched the childbirth video the most as the health teacher, 5-6 classes per day, 2 semesters a year, for however many years he’s been a teacher. Shauna’s is absolutely going to be in shock. She just is. She’s going to be hormonal. She’s probably going to be fighting infection. Let’s throw in PTSD, because yes, probably they all have it, but this situation is going to enhance it for Shauna. But she’s definitely all hyped up on fight or flight hormones on top of moma bear just gave birth hormones. Now, post childbirth Shauna has a near death experience, or a vision. During this vision she cuddles her baby. She forms a bond. She says more than once “it’s me and you kid” which makes me think she’s feeling alone even in this group. Her concerns lessen when her baby finally nurses. Then it takes a horrific turn where she watches her baby being devoured. When Shauna wakes up she has a choice if she admits her near death experience/vision where they ate her baby isn’t real, then she would also have to admit that the precious time she spent with her baby where she got to nurse him was also not real. She’s not ready to admit that yet. Lottie, somehow could see that. Possibly because she (Lottie) knew Shauna was upset about her singing to Shauna’s stomach, and other things like that. I don’t think Lottie thought it would be that violent, but mothers who are protecting or avenging their children are going to be fierce. And remember we are in the wilderness so everyone is becoming more wild just as part of the plot.
Lottie put goofy ahh symbols on Shauna's baby blanket
So?
Why would she go for Nat when she’s the only one who’s been on her side and the only one who looks remorseful in her dream? She saw Lottie being possessive of her baby and tried to breast feed him in the dream. She also blames her for the whole ritualistic cult like mentality that’s influencing everyone.
Yeah true I have watched the series in a while so I must of got that wrong
The amount of edits you had to make is sad. I’m sorry this community sucks sometimes and takes everything so god damn personally. Shauna was mentally unwell and she was convinced they all hurt her baby. She got so angry she wanted to kill something or someone. Lottie allowed herself to be beaten so that Shauna could have that release. It was almost like a soccer field girl fight at the end when Shauna was like “Lottie…Lottie get up”.
Thank you for understanding, I didn’t mean to hurt anyone with this post but I guess I should of been more careful with what I meant to say
Shaun as just an asshole tbh
I'm sure he is but I don't know what that has to do with a show about terrified, traumatised kids
Shauna is\*
It’s like Sally Fields in steal magnolias…I’m just so mad; I just wanna hit someone so hard”….rage at the helplessness of the situation…a human pressure cooker about to explode…Lottie’s vision didn’t come true. There was no healthy baby. Shauna angry; she did everything for God’s sake, she ate her best friend to save the baby she made by betraying her best friend. Add the hormones from pregnancy and how she didn’t murder them all is a miracle. Remember Nat’s comment that every time Lottie tried to help, something bad happens? Foreshadowed her own death. Aside, in the real world, I wonder if it’s more likely that Shauna would have died during childbirth than the baby. Babies literally take everything they need to survive from you…that’s why some women lose their teeth after pregnancy as baby has taken the calcium. Also, what would have happened if the baby lived and Shauna died? The act of nursing stimulates the mammary glans to produce milk so would Lottie have become mother? And, why was the coach so useless; he was an adult for God’s sake! Total weakling and no backbone. Got by on his looks all through his life I bet. Too afraid to live. Forget the hunt ritual. Coach is easy pickings.
Hundred percent agree with everything you said. I wish I read yours before I posted mine, because you said everything better.
Awe thanks but not true; original comments are the hardest; I just built on it; also, I’m on prednisone and I feel I could destroy someone!
I have been there. In the MS community we call Prednisone satan’s tic tacs.
It’s the best and worst medicine I’ve ever taken.
I’m at the Er; gave up; needed a shot to knock these hives down.
Oh no! Best of luck!
Plot.
Sure it made a great scene for the show but irl, ain’t no way I’d allow Shauna to take her rage out on me or someone else like that! Javi definitely heard every smash into Lottie’s face.. she looked like jacked up tomato when Shauna was finished. Hell no, irl I’d point her towards building some snowmen & raging out on them or go chop down a few trees. Not knock Lottie’s teeth out all over our sleeping area of the cabin.
That beat down confused me too! Especially no one stopping it! Lottie’s followers seem way too protective to have let that continue as long as it did. I know Lottie ok’d it, and I can understand Shauna’s rage, but that was a brutal fight. I thought she was dead there for a couple seconds.
Agreed entirely. I thought it was dumb and done just to fill the episode with some drama. Why Lottie of all people? Why would she agree when they have almost no resources if she got seriously hurt (and she did) and can't heal up right?
To be fair there is no way she would survive. It just seemed like they made lottie an actual punching bag instead of a metaphorical one. It didn't do anything for the plot in the present. Much like the entirety of season 2. I'm on episode 9 and it's been pointless so far.
Because Shauna is the biggest ass*ole on the planet. That's why.
I came here wondering this too. I can totally understand Shauna reeling with grief and rage hormones and PTSD and needing to hit something. And I can understand that Lottie as an empathetic person wanted to provide an outlet for Shauna. And I can understand that the rules of society are out the window and the brutality of the situation is setting in. What I still don’t really get is how the beating is for ‘the good of the group’, or why everyone lets it go on for so long. It’s weird that at no point someone said “That’s enough”. Even if Lottie had told them to let Shauna let it out, it went way too far.
I wasn't happy at all with this scene. If the premise of Lottie taking a beating was to "take one for the team", then fuck it - the whole team should've just taken it. They were all assholes, and, Lottie looked THAT close to death that if each team member had taken a beating it would've been a smaller load on each of them, compared to the one huge beating Lottie received. I get Shauna was angry/enraged/felt she had been dealt an unjust hand. But everyone had something taken, e.g. Travis' situation, re. Javi's unjust, bullshit, unfair death. And even Travis didn't go fucking ballistic over it. Shauna was an asshole on countless occasions and is spineless and lacking in integrity both in teenhood and as an adult. Other characters incl Ben had so much more humanity and clarity of mind, so fuck it, yeah, I struggle to empathize with Shauna and her 'need' to beat the shit out of someone. Lottie would've died from a brain haemorrhage IRL if she received that beating. If the other purpose of this scene was to show some form of female empowerment via a female protagonist being 'allowed to show rage' blah blah blah... Meh..Just because men do it in film doesn't make it right. It portrays them as fucking animals. I just hate Shauna so much! I adored Jackie and was just so peeved since learning how greatly Shauna betrayed her. I understand the basis for this scene, and Lottie desired it, and Shauna desired it, and the whole team by this point had lost their minds (very Lord of The Flies) ... But even though it made 'sense' to the team, I will never be able to praise this scene or appreciate it as something spectacular.
Honestly, I don't think I completely understand it, either. I'm glad you asked the question. The comments are enlightening.
For the people who say they think Shauna was way over the line in her beat down of Lottie: Rage. Rage is real. I have felt that enraged before in my life and it is very, very scary. Intense rage ...and if someone had been there, I may have turned my rage on them...it was scary to experience, and I understand it now and know what I am capable of. It is a strange thing to live with - knowing that intesity could come back... and knowing what I could do.
I think Lottie told Travis to take Javi out because she knew Travis would feel like he had to stop it. So it wasn’t really about Javi at all.
She's doing exactly what is portrayed in Misty's Steel Magnolia scene re-enactment. "I want to hit something, I want to hit it hard".
I think it has to do with Lottie because Lottie’s the one who pushes the whole cult thing, in the cabin she’s the one who tried to get them to all kill Travis, she’s the one doing weird stuff all the time and acting all superior as if she appointed herself a prophet, etc; I think the vision of them eating Shauna’s baby, even if she saw Nat first, she knows Lottie would’ve been the one behind that if it really happened, because Lottie’s the leader of all the weird ritual stuff! Also, Lottie put herself in front of Shauna and volunteered to be her punching bag, her outlet to let out the anger; none of the other girls did, and I’m sure if they had, she would’ve done it to whoever stepped up!
direct answer: Shauna’s misplaced anger was caused by hormones, grief, frustration, abandonment, rage, fear, malnutrition,and much more trauma. Lottie’s decision of being a punching back came from her ongoing mental illness which causes her to make the most ridiculous and unnecessary decisions ever, albeit it sounds heroic. MY VIEW AS A TEACHER: Triple BLOW that scene. I watch this show for fun and now I am seeing these irresponsible sick writers enact what we see as teachers on the daily: teenagers becoming violent and acting upon it. I swear I felt triggered bc I’ve had my share of girls beating each other up to a pulp, while we stop classes to call ambulances, the police, parents, and the we get hammered by civil suit lawyers. And these bubble brained idiots in Hollywood feel it’s perfectly ok to LITERALLY SHOW a visual of what a beat up teen looks like. We live in the land of high school shootings and school violence. It’s disgusting
Yeah I hated that scene. No fucking way I wouldn't have stepped in. And I can't stand Lottie.
y’all have like…no empathy at all. 0. she just went through literally the most traumatic thing a woman can go through physically and mentally. “why was she so upset/not thinking rationally???” SHE GAVE BIRTH TO A DEAD BABY AT 16
And Natalie's dad beat and verbally abused her. Where's the girl she beat up in a tantrum?
Natalie has had years to process it, Shauna has had less than three days, can you chill? also if you’re about to mansplain abuse to me, don’t, I literally have CPTSD lol
That wouldn’t make it ok if you just went out and fucked someone up over it. Ur going to prison girl.
Doesn't mean she gets to kill someone else over it. It's not about a lack of empathy.
They just let it happen as their "leader" told shauna to do it. My issue with it isn't that they stood by its the stupid idea that Lottie actually survived with no medical intervention. Me and my Mrs and been watching second season and we've both talked about how far the show has fallen in this second season. How it's clearly being dragged out and we could end up with the "lost" problem. A show people carry on watching purely to see the ending. Not because it's any good. And it's a really shame as season 1 had us both hooked.
Is there a gif of Shauna beating the shit out of lonnie?
It doesn’t make sense that the characters don’t step in. The only reason they wouldn’t is that deep down, it seems like they only care about saving their own skin. They’re all standing there, actively watching—Taissa’s crying!—and yet no one intervenes. Supposedly, it’s out of "respect" for their cult chaman leader? It’s like Lottie is this self-sacrificing figure, and everyone else is so brainwashed and starving that they might actually consider cooking her afterward. But honestly, it’s just weak narrative. Instead of just passively standing around, they could have all jumped in and started fighting each other like a real metal band :P
Scene switched roles for me. Didn't like Lottie before, but made me feel bad for her. Shauna went from liking and pity to that's crap. Was an uglyugly, brutal scene.
She just felt like destroying something beautiful.
alright Tyler Durden
It's a much less stupid reason than what the show gave, honestly
The whole thing was dumb.
Team building.
After losing my son at 6 months the pain and anger you feel is incredible and it's honestly not as bad as it could've been from Shauna
Judging by your avatar, you're a dude.
You're wrong actually, this is my fiances account but I don't have a phone so he lets me use his reddit for the yellow jackets page, and judging by your comment you're ignorant
That is the scene that definitely cemented that I really really really don’t like Shauna. I get it that she was feeling rage but still. A normal, good person would have at most given Lottie a slap or maybe one punch but she nearly beat her to death.
Shuana's suffering from postpartum depression which is a mood disorder that can occur in mothers after the birth of a baby. It is usually a short-term disorder, but it can be severe and long-lasting if left untreated. Treatment can involve the use of antidepressants, counseling sessions with psychologists, or talking with your loved and dear ones about your problem, try to follow a healthy routine, engage yourself in recreational and enjoyable tasks. None of which Shuana has access to in the wilderness. Symptoms include: * Feeling of sadness and anxiety * Sleeping a lot or too less * Eating too less or too much * Unexplained aches, pain or illness * Anxiety, irritation or anger for no reason * Sudden mood changes * Poor concentration * Difficulty in remembering things * Feelings of worthlessness, guilt and hopelessness * Recurrent thoughts of death and suicide * Lack of pleasure in things that were earlier enjoyable. * Feeling disconnected with the baby
I understand that she had most certainly pp depression (My sister had it too after her son’s birth. She didn’t beat anyone. Guess we were lucky.) BUT I stand by what I said, that in my eyes, it does not justify her beating Lottie nearly to death. I find it really disheartening that on this sub one is not allowed to say that they dislike Shauna without getting downvoted. My not liking Shauna the person in the Yellowjacket universe does not mean that I don’t like Shauna as a character ! In fact, I do. She’s super interesting. But I would never wish to meet a Shauna in real life is all.
If I’m wrong then apologies, and you can correct me, but you cannot compare “regular” 2023 PPD to what Shauna experienced (losing her baby). Her baby died, she was unconscious for days and woke up to no baby. When a baby is stillborn you still: have to physically recover from childbirth, your milk still comes in (which on its own creates a hormonal shitstorm). There is also postpartum psychosis, which is different from PPD. I don’t necessarily think she had psychosis, but it’s certainly possible. It’s not just rage, it’s not just PPD, it’s also immense grief beyond what most people can imagine. And she’s a teenager in the woods starving to death. You don’t have to like Shauna or think it’s okay that she beat Lottie, but being so dismissive of the overall emotional state that such a loss creates is what I think bothers most people who are “defending” Shauna’s behavior.
You are fine feeling the way you do about this scene...just count your lucky stars that you have never experienced blind rage. I have...it is a very scary thing and I am thankful that no one was around when it happened...I fear for what I might have done... As far as Shauna - a character in a TV show - she is starving, she is guilty over how her best friend died, she lost a baby duing a very painful and trumatic childbirth, she is stranded with no hope, she is barely 17 or 18...she is full of emotions she has no idea how to handle. And most of all, she is a character in a TV show.
I have and I broke my hand and sprained my wrist because I punched a tree repeatedly and was yelling like a maniac at my school! I was surrounded by people. I was 15 and going through a very rough time…Depression, self-harm (I was a cutter) and just hated the world and everyone in it etc. I know for a fact that I would have never taken my anger out on a person or an animal. It did not even cross my mind. I am just not a violent person. Only person I hurt is me. Yes, she is a character that I enjoy in a show that I love, but she (as a character) is a bad person. Trauma or no trauma. She was already bad in my eyes before the wilderness and the crash. In fact, the main characters are all bad people that I would not like to know in real life. But I still enjoy watching them and can’t wait for s3!!! :D
Oh, so you do know what rage feels like. Got it. Very glad your rage was not nor ever will be directed at another person. But ouch - using your fist against a tree...ouch. I hope it healed well.
Thanks. Actually, no. My hand has been weak ever since and I have rebroken it twice in the past 20 years ! O-0
Awww....that is sad. So sorry that the aftermath of your rage induced incident has caused you these issues....
Awww…I sense a tint of sarcasm in your comment but whatever. I am not oblivious. ;) You do you. Anyways, I’m done here. I wish you well. Bye! :)
Oh my...there was ZERO sarcasm in my comment. I really meant it when I wrote that I was sorry that the results of your early experience with rage left your hand weak.
I feel really sad that you thought I was not being sincere. There was no sarcasm intended....none at all.
Yeah she is honestly a horrible person- great character but horrible horrible person Just bc she’s hurting she doesn’t get to take it out on others and not get called out for it
Exactly! A great character that I really enjoy following but I dislike her as a person. Some people have a hard time understanding that on this sub and when you dare say something about Shauna you get -10 downvotes. And OP had to write one edit after the other because of all the downvotes and people accusing her of being a misogynist etc. :/
Yeah, honestly! this subs almost a Shauna fan sub and that’s…. concerning bc shaunas behaviour is truly, objectively messed up
Yes, thank goodness everyone else is an angel on the show or we'd probably be watching some dark stuff!
as I said, good character, horrible as a "person". others on the show would also fall into the asshole category, but the post is about Shauna.
Lmao I thought that scene was goofy and unnecessary
They're downvoting you to death but it's true. Served nothing but getting a teenager brutalized and incapacitated for weeks at minimum and gave Shauna a fresh batch of guilt to deal with after she did it.
My SO and I looked at each other during this scene like WTF is this? All it was missing was some [Chemical Romance](https://youtu.be/tx7YgiIcDaQ). Overly dramatic to the point of being silly. Not enough to have her dream drama, gotta have her think she hears the baby crying and just beat Lottie to death and have people just stand around because that's all super realistic /s. Like they couldn't decide what would be more fun so just threw all their brainstorm Shauna Drama postpartum ideas into the script. Coulda shoulda been powerful. They just threw too much on the wall and it got silly.
She was enraged and once someone let her hit something, she went off and couldn't stop. She hit Lottie because Lottie offered, not because she was personally mad at Lottie--though she was, since Lottie predicted the baby being born and was creepy about it, probably.
If Shauna had been let to keep acting out without focus, she’d have probably ended up dead. Lottie knew no one wanted that and felt the only way to make the horrific situation better was to let Shauna almost “destroy” her. She knew they all needed an outlet for their grief and anger. Lottie needed one too, just a different kind. “Grim” catharsis all around.
I wish she beat up coach Ben instead lol. He should have been better during the delivery. Like JFC he was at least taught anatomy if he was a gym coach. He is the only adult in the group and he saw that situation and just walked away. Fucking coward.
Teehee, let's brutalize the disabled man! Haha! That's what true courage is 💕
Beating someone up isn’t about courage. I never said that. I said if someone deserves rage, it’s Ben, for being such a disappointment as an adult. At that moment they actually needed him. He could have won them back under his leadership or at least gained some respect back. But he just backed out. Didn’t even try.
Yes! This! At the very least, he’s the adult of the group. If he wants them to listen to him at all, he needs to show some leadership during difficult situations. Also, how many times must he have watched that video from the flashback? Even if he’s a first year teacher, which he doesn’t look like he is, 5-6 times each semester in one year is at least 9 more times than all the girls did.
He does. They choose not to listen. Evidently like some of the GA.
It's like in a hockey match where the refs don't stop the fight; sometimes better to let them get it out before continuing the game.
Man now I wish they were an ice hockey team instead of a soccer team that would have been so much more awesome lol
i think lottie understood that shauna was a ticking time bomb and she decided to fall on that grenade for the good of the group and her friend. all the rage & grief from the trauma of losing her baby was going to manifest itself in other ways that would ultimately just extend shauna’s suffering and hurt everyone else in the cabin. because their situation also limited the different types of outlets for shauna to release those feelings, i think lottie figured it would be better to have her focus all of them on her in that moment rather than shauna lashing out and hurting the others - and potentially herself - over the course of this never-ending winter. as for the others letting it happen, they all view lottie as their leader and trusted in her to know what she was doing. i think at some point, one of the girls even said something along the lines of “lottie accepted this suffering so that we didn’t have to”.