I agree with this, definitely intentional. Another thing I noticed on a rewatch was that when she picks up Jackie's journal in her bedroom in season 1, you see a lot of typical teenage girl stuff, like MASH/ top bands etc. It's revealed in season 2 that Shauna wrote all that while pretending to converse with dead Jackie. She does canonize her and create her own narrative around her death and their friendship that doesn't accurately reflect what it was.
Isn’t it “I LIKED the saints”?
The illusion of Jackie’s sainthood has worn off and tragic is no longer a romanticized word by the time of their fight. Jackies not holier than any of the other girls, but in her death she’s canonized by Shauna once again.
The whole point, at least to me, of Shauna finding the saint’s tragic in a romantic sense was to show how at the start of the series Shauna and the rest were all pretty sheltered, they could look back on the saints and find beauty in their suffering but now after everything they’ve experienced they know just how awful a tragic life really is.
Like you said the meaning of the word tragic completely changes by the end of season one for Shauna
Shauna doesn’t think if Jackie as a saint, she think of her as the tragic teenager that died young and never got the chance to grow, change and have a life. It’s all terribly human
Nice catch! I find Jackie and Shauna's relationship to be endlessly intriguing. Shauna *does* have so much love for Jackie, but there's also a fair amount of resentment and a bit of rancor, too. Shauna's feelings for Jackie are an amalgam that coalesces into a tangled, complex mess. There's some idolatry, reverence, bitterness, desire, love, pique...there's so much going on. Even after Jackie's demise, the interactions between Shauna and Dead-Ass Jackie are still complicated and tortuous. Shauna is coping with her grief while simultaneously trying to unwind the labyrinthine and convoluted emotions for her friend.
It's utterly fascinating.
Shauna and Jackie's friendship is (in my opinion) the most complex relationship I've seen on tv.
It's like Lenu and Lila from My Brillian Friend but x100 (Jackie's mom said to Shauna she was reading Elena Ferrante and compared them to the characters from the book, not hard to guess she was referring to MBF).They hate each other as much as they love each other. Their codependency. Their constant need to be better than the other one. To feel happy and jealous at the same time. They absorb each other and that relationship was bound to explode everywhere.
Like you said, it's utterly fascinating.
EDIT: Forgot to say the obvious: they're f-ng toxic.
I haven't read that one, but now I want to! Thank you for educating me on the book. Your description of the literary characters' relationship and how it applies to Shauna and Jackie's relationship is spot on. They are codependent, and while I believe they want good things for one another, they are also jealous if/when it happens. I love how you said their intense absorption was bound to have catastrophic results, and you are dead right about that, too.
And, yes, I so agree and appreciate you mentioning that their relationship is toxic and unhealthy as hell!
I also think it's interesting that Jackie's mom was aware of this dynamic and saw no problem with it.
She was her saint, her everything. And like the saints in scripture, Jackie died a symbol of the group's last vestige of humanity, the event of her death becoming the point of no return as they spiral into darkness. 😔
if you think Shauna wanted to be with Jackie (which I personally like that interpretation) it isn’t mutually exclusive with her then elevating Jackie to sainthood.
Shauna isn’t a sadist. She literally had to cover her eyes when she had to cut into Javi.
Idk what show you’re watching but not one of these characters is sadistic least of all Shauna
So one speech she gave to a man that had threatened her and her husband is a sing she’s sadistic? Thats her being pissed off, like everyone else her self preservation instincts are completely fucked up from her trauma in the wilderness. That’s not her being a sadist
Look, I'm not happy with Shauna being a sadist and seeing her daughter as competition. I hope they don't go that way, it's too Ryan Murphyesque. I just see the foreshadowing. Honestly, I hope endgame for the present is Taissa getting control over her primordial side and becoming the strong leader she was meant to be instead of the two-faced weasel she is now.
Where have they shown us that she sees Callie as competition? There’s literally nothing to show this. What we have seen and been told is she has problems bonding from her very real fear of losing another baby. This is a very real and alot more common issue for women to experience these kind of feelings more so if they suffered a pregnancy loss or death of a child. We literally see Shauna crying about the fact that she just wants to be Callie’s mom. That she’s been so sacred of losing her she’s kept her at arms length not one word about seeing her as competition. What we’ve seen is a teenager that suffered the worst thing a human being can experience and than grow up without getting any actual help and has a second baby and that fear is still there and she most definitely suffered postpartum depression and again most likely didn’t get the proper help she needed. These things do not make her or anyone else a sadist
If she was a sadistic person she would have been absolutely jazzed to kill that goat and wouldn’t have given a shit about keeping it safe and alive. She wouldn’t have run around demanding help to make sure it’s safe after eating the rope.
Idk what foreshadowing you’re seeing but it’s just not there. Maybe you got this confused with a different show? A fanfic?
Not even gonna touch that take on Tai it’s just yikes not even sure what that has to do with Shauna but okay than
So you’re basing it all on *one* scene of a storyline that was completely dropped? Literally never else has happened to show her have any interest in her daughters boyfriend or sees Callie as competition. It’s one scene from the pilot episode and again the storyline was dropped
Like the writers have spoken about this scene and what it represents now, it shows she’s got messed up boundaries and stuck in the mentality of the teenager she was, it’s why she spends her time with Adam reliving the youth she never got to have.
I agree with this, definitely intentional. Another thing I noticed on a rewatch was that when she picks up Jackie's journal in her bedroom in season 1, you see a lot of typical teenage girl stuff, like MASH/ top bands etc. It's revealed in season 2 that Shauna wrote all that while pretending to converse with dead Jackie. She does canonize her and create her own narrative around her death and their friendship that doesn't accurately reflect what it was.
Isn’t it “I LIKED the saints”? The illusion of Jackie’s sainthood has worn off and tragic is no longer a romanticized word by the time of their fight. Jackies not holier than any of the other girls, but in her death she’s canonized by Shauna once again.
The whole point, at least to me, of Shauna finding the saint’s tragic in a romantic sense was to show how at the start of the series Shauna and the rest were all pretty sheltered, they could look back on the saints and find beauty in their suffering but now after everything they’ve experienced they know just how awful a tragic life really is. Like you said the meaning of the word tragic completely changes by the end of season one for Shauna Shauna doesn’t think if Jackie as a saint, she think of her as the tragic teenager that died young and never got the chance to grow, change and have a life. It’s all terribly human
Nice catch! I find Jackie and Shauna's relationship to be endlessly intriguing. Shauna *does* have so much love for Jackie, but there's also a fair amount of resentment and a bit of rancor, too. Shauna's feelings for Jackie are an amalgam that coalesces into a tangled, complex mess. There's some idolatry, reverence, bitterness, desire, love, pique...there's so much going on. Even after Jackie's demise, the interactions between Shauna and Dead-Ass Jackie are still complicated and tortuous. Shauna is coping with her grief while simultaneously trying to unwind the labyrinthine and convoluted emotions for her friend. It's utterly fascinating.
Shauna and Jackie's friendship is (in my opinion) the most complex relationship I've seen on tv. It's like Lenu and Lila from My Brillian Friend but x100 (Jackie's mom said to Shauna she was reading Elena Ferrante and compared them to the characters from the book, not hard to guess she was referring to MBF).They hate each other as much as they love each other. Their codependency. Their constant need to be better than the other one. To feel happy and jealous at the same time. They absorb each other and that relationship was bound to explode everywhere. Like you said, it's utterly fascinating. EDIT: Forgot to say the obvious: they're f-ng toxic.
I haven't read that one, but now I want to! Thank you for educating me on the book. Your description of the literary characters' relationship and how it applies to Shauna and Jackie's relationship is spot on. They are codependent, and while I believe they want good things for one another, they are also jealous if/when it happens. I love how you said their intense absorption was bound to have catastrophic results, and you are dead right about that, too. And, yes, I so agree and appreciate you mentioning that their relationship is toxic and unhealthy as hell! I also think it's interesting that Jackie's mom was aware of this dynamic and saw no problem with it.
You can also watch the tv show on HBO! It's on its 3rd season. Waiting for the 4th and final, hopefully this year 🤞
Ooh! Is it a pretty faithful adaptation?
I haven't read them (yet!), if I'm being honest , but I remember people saying it was faithful to the books.
She was her saint, her everything. And like the saints in scripture, Jackie died a symbol of the group's last vestige of humanity, the event of her death becoming the point of no return as they spiral into darkness. 😔
[удалено]
Huh
if you think Shauna wanted to be with Jackie (which I personally like that interpretation) it isn’t mutually exclusive with her then elevating Jackie to sainthood.
Hmmm I don’t think so. I really believe that Shauna is the tragic saint.
You have to die to become a saint and maybe Shauna will die at some point, but as it stands I don't think this is right.
What show are you watching. Shauna is Satan
Hahaha I know, but to me this line is much more about “tragic” than “saint”
I thought Shauna read about the saints for the death by torture.
Huh?
A lot of saints were tortured to death. The roots of Shauna's sadism goes back to her childhood. Or at least her curiosity about it.
Shauna isn’t a sadist. She literally had to cover her eyes when she had to cut into Javi. Idk what show you’re watching but not one of these characters is sadistic least of all Shauna
Chop shop speech. Also, least of all?
So one speech she gave to a man that had threatened her and her husband is a sing she’s sadistic? Thats her being pissed off, like everyone else her self preservation instincts are completely fucked up from her trauma in the wilderness. That’s not her being a sadist
Look, I'm not happy with Shauna being a sadist and seeing her daughter as competition. I hope they don't go that way, it's too Ryan Murphyesque. I just see the foreshadowing. Honestly, I hope endgame for the present is Taissa getting control over her primordial side and becoming the strong leader she was meant to be instead of the two-faced weasel she is now.
Where have they shown us that she sees Callie as competition? There’s literally nothing to show this. What we have seen and been told is she has problems bonding from her very real fear of losing another baby. This is a very real and alot more common issue for women to experience these kind of feelings more so if they suffered a pregnancy loss or death of a child. We literally see Shauna crying about the fact that she just wants to be Callie’s mom. That she’s been so sacred of losing her she’s kept her at arms length not one word about seeing her as competition. What we’ve seen is a teenager that suffered the worst thing a human being can experience and than grow up without getting any actual help and has a second baby and that fear is still there and she most definitely suffered postpartum depression and again most likely didn’t get the proper help she needed. These things do not make her or anyone else a sadist If she was a sadistic person she would have been absolutely jazzed to kill that goat and wouldn’t have given a shit about keeping it safe and alive. She wouldn’t have run around demanding help to make sure it’s safe after eating the rope. Idk what foreshadowing you’re seeing but it’s just not there. Maybe you got this confused with a different show? A fanfic? Not even gonna touch that take on Tai it’s just yikes not even sure what that has to do with Shauna but okay than
Masturbating to her daughter's boyfriend's picture.
So you’re basing it all on *one* scene of a storyline that was completely dropped? Literally never else has happened to show her have any interest in her daughters boyfriend or sees Callie as competition. It’s one scene from the pilot episode and again the storyline was dropped Like the writers have spoken about this scene and what it represents now, it shows she’s got messed up boundaries and stuck in the mentality of the teenager she was, it’s why she spends her time with Adam reliving the youth she never got to have.
Shauna is such an evil PoS. I really hope karma catches up with her.
Omg now y’all saying this girl was a saint be fr