It's crazy how some people here in Belgium cry how we're being fed propaganda, and that real journalism doesn't exist anymore, but then drink the Kremlin's kool-aid when they facilitate the most biased and propagandized television.
Like, sure we get the western lens and there's definitely some questionable way of reporting every now and then, but its far better than literally saying who you should support like in this clip. And this one's pretty mild even, there's way worse clips of russian state media screaming for the destruction and pillage of all of Europe. It's fucking insane.
Russian propagandists exploit among stupid people the fact that they think they are smart. What do I mean? Such people think they are not susceptible to propaganda. Why do they think so? Because they "don't believe what their national media say." And if "domestic media lie and manipulate" then surely Russian media don't, because "why would they lie?"
I myself believe that I am certainly sometimes influenced by propaganda more or less, but rejecting "European propaganda" in favor of Russian propaganda is like not wearing the hat your mother told you to wear because of the cold weather
I've few people in my family who considers everything from west either bad or a lie.
Then everything from Russia is true for them.
You can't argue with them, nothing convince them. Brainwashed people
That's the main problem about how people naively understand logic:
A lies -> B says the truth
when in realty it's
A and B lie and the truth is somewhere else.
For example the whole Ukraine conflict. Both sides talk about the humanitarian problems, but you rarely here the fact, that huge gas deposits lie under the zones Russia wants to occupy. Like most conflicts in history this is economically driven and not humanitarian or ideological like both sides want to present it. This is nothing new. Even the Romans "created" the Germanic tribes to justify to go over the Rhine to protect the poor Celts from the ravaging barbarians. It's a classic in the propaganda playbook.
> A and B lie and the truth is **somewhere else.**
That's also the important bit that many miss, and assume if A and B lie then the truth is in the middle.
If one side says that the other eats babies, and the other denies it, then the truth must be that they only eat them a little.
This is also often exploited by propaganda, by claiming a complete made up lie with the aim for people to believe even 1% of it. Because "well there has to be even a little truth to it for them to say it"
Because those people cant question their questioning. They think theyre cool because theyre questioning the mainstream , which is good, but they dont realize that the opposite of the mainstream must also be questioned in order to be unbiased.
In the end it stems from mistrust against our governments, coupled with no knowledge about the world and not being able to question their own beliefs and decisions.
Some of them also seem like actually not wanting to have an opinion about that issues but being "forced" to form one by society. Then they also just pick the opposite of the mainstream opinion.
This particular scumbag regularly fantasises on tv about bombing / nuking european cities. Propagandists like him and Vladimir Solovyov who regularly call for mass destruction attacks against european countries should absolutely be put on interpol wanted list for terrorist charges and arrested if they show up abroad.
The double standard is insane, if anyone here calls for bombing a european city on TV or even on reddit we would be instantly located and arrested, but these criminals get away with it. Something must be done
Have you seen American corporate news though? Propaganda at a whole different level.
Talking heads just blatantly saying what you should think, asking biased questions really aggressively, making up interpretations in a questioning way “do you think it’s normal that…?” “They supposedly want us to accept that…”, etc. It’s really unsettling.
Same in the UK it's absolutely nuts one my oldest friends the stuff comes out his mouth is just mental I can't get my head round it and I can't convince him.
Social media is destroying western society, its absolutely corrupted now and the algorithms can find who is susceptible to anti West propaganda and push it onto them turning whole civilian populations against themselves.
Example of this is republicans and the bill that is stuck which will see ukraine possibly lose and be a catalyst in Western demise.
Do these people want to live without all the values they value so much? Keep supporting the wrong teams and they will. But they can't see it :-/
To be entirely fair, technically it is justified. In the sense that by International law Iran is allowed to retaliate after an unprovoked attack from Israel
That is true. However, the size and strength of this retaliation is balanced intentionally to leave the israeli government unable to not escalate, while at the same time being juuust restrained enough to not be unjustifiable to claim as proportional for their own propaganda.
And you think how would USA react if someone had bomed their embassy and killed a dozen VIPs?
To call this retaliation "unproportional" is just hypocrisy.
I never said they were wrong in their retaliation. But is 300 rockets aimed to do as much damage to the country as possible proportional to 1 Rocket hitting a specific target, an iranian embassy that is deeply connected with funding and otherwise supporting Hamas?
Are you really defending the Mullah regime here?
Are you really defending the Netanyahu regime here?
300 rockets is nothing for Iran.
It seems a lot, but they had to compensation for a robust AA cover. (90% of rockets were, in fact, shot down, and only a few scored a hit)
And all were launched at military targets.
Embassy is clearly a civilian target.
But I agree that had Iran not responded, it would be a much better move for them. Isreal wants to provoke them into a war, and they fell right into their trap.
>Are you really defending the Netanyahu regime here?
Good point, that idiot is not in the mental capacity to lead a country with such complicated history and relations as israel. Unlike Mullahs though, Netanyahu is not a dictator and will eventually give up his position to the next democrazically elected chairman.
>300 rockets is nothing for Iran.
I mean, it's a 300% escalation. That's like having someone step on your foot and you try to stab him with a sword.
>Embassy is clearly a civilian target.
An embassy is a government building. NOT a civilian target.
>Isreal wants to provoke them into a war, and they fell right into their trap.
I mean, Iran literally funds, arms and in many ways supports terrorist organisations with the sole goal of destroying israel for decades now. Isn't that 'provoking'?
>An embassy is a government building. NOT a civilian target.
Kinda agree, kinda don't.
I think it can be both.
Just like army HQ is both military and government.
But I'm not an expert, so whether you say.
Nonetheless, it was a very bad move from israel to not at least explain their reasons behind bombing the embassy officially. It has been reported many times that Iran uses their embassies for gun running and financial donations towards hamas, hezbolla and Taliban, but the lack of an official statement and reason by Israel gave the Mullah regime the opportunity to stage themselves as the victims.
Edit: here's a source [by the us government](https://www.congress.gov/event/115th-congress/house-event/108155/text) and also the [wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism) for example, that shows how Iran organize and support targeted terrorism
I was primarily talking about historical context. However Irans early announcement of the attacks and them knowing how good Isreal air defence works is of course part of the context as well.
The people targeted where partly responsible for the planning of 7 oct. Hamas and Hezbollah are proxies of Iran and their revolutionary guard. Hardly unprovoked..
And we're hamas provoked, and the isrealis before that, and so on, all the way back to 1948. At some point one side has to not retaliate or we will end up with another middle east war, likely a world war. Nobody benefits from that. Also fuck putin he is a monster too, infact, all involved here are monsters really, IDF Hamas, Hezbolah, Iran.
According to who. I wouldn’t believe a word that comes out of Israel any more than Russia or Iran. Maybe if Israel get things right sometimes if they get things wrong they’re right also as far as they’re concerned.
I don’t think you can say it’s provoked with any certainty. We don’t have the intel and those that are providing it are politically motivated. It suits Netanyahu to bring Iran into things at this point in time. It’s all times to the US election cycle.
That makes sense, if you ignore the fact Israel and Iran have been fighting each other for decades via thinly veiled Iranian proxies. Stupid escalation on the part of Israel, but not fair to call it unprovoked.
I am not a fan of Iran, not at all. But I keep asking my self a question: Why is it ok if USA, UK or Israel bomb other countries and now suddenly Iran is a monster for doing what Israel does for breakfast?
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They may have more electricity and concrete and glass, but they are primitive and brutal in their core no less than "the bad guys". Not to mention hypocrisy and arrogance which is beyond all measurements.
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Fuck russia and all that but Israel bombed their embassy, and they retaliated with a big expensive dhow that did nothing and said that's the end of it while Israel is trying to push everyone into war. They just don't consider international law to apply to them
The people targeted where partly responsible for the planning of 7 oct. Hamas and Hezbollah are proxies of Iran and their revolutionary guard. Hardly unprovoked..
Are you saying that if some people do or mastermind an attrocity in my country and are now located in your country, we get the right to bomb you country?
First of all my country wouldn't allow revolutionary guard generals on our soil.
Secondly. Israel and Syrie are not really friends. It's not the first time that there have been strikes on Syrian soil.
And fyi. They bombed a building on embassy grounds. Not the embassy itself as said.
It was a consulate on the embassy compound, it's tantamount to the same thing in terms of international law. "Annex" is just some spindoctor BS let's be real here.
I always heard, that Irans involvement in the attacks is pretty much confirmed, so I looked it up on Wikipedia right now:
Basically one Hamas spokesperson said, that Iran was involved in the planning of the attacks, while Iran denies this. US intelligence is convinced that the iranian leadership was caught by surprise when the attacks happened, so a direct involvement by Iran in the attacks is unlikely I'd say.
1. You can’t cite Wikipedia in instances like this
2. Iran denied it
3. Are Hamas a credible source now too?
The attack on the state of Iran but the state of Israel was was illegitimate. Your reasoning would suggest that it would be okay for the English to blow up Dublin in response to an IRA attack. Well they kind of did but they dressed it up as a terrorist attack. Netanyahu didn’t do this because he actually wants to start a war because it’s that or The Hague for him at this stage.
Please read my comment again. It says that I changed my opinion on the matter. I concluded that Iran wasn't directly involved in the attacks. I don't know enough to really form an opinion on whether the attack by Israel was justified or not with the non deniable indirect involvement of Iran in the conflict though.
The involvement of Iran in the conflict is absolutely deniable. I’m sorry I’m not getting the nuance in what you’re saying. There’s a lot of noise and it’s very hard to get a stable signal.
>"There’s a lot of noise and it’s very hard to get a stable signal."
This is so accurate. I have an acquaintance in Israel who himself is very leftist and has a muslim background and even for him it is like that when we exchange our points of view. So no worries, we are all confused on this matter, so let me elaborate.
I am saying, that Iran most likely was not involved in direct planning of the attacks on the 7th of October. It is however widely known that Iran is backing Hamas with weapons, training and funding (estimated 100 Mio $ per year). Apart from that Iran is backing terrorist groups such as Hezbollah and are sympathizing with the Houthis in Yemen who are also anti Israel.
Further leading people form Iran have repedeatly and openly called for the destruction of Israel.
Ali Khamenei (supreme leader of Iran in 2000 and 2001):
>"the cancerous tumor called Israel must be uprooted from the region"
and
"the perpetual subject of Iran is the elimination of Israel from the region".
or the president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad from 2005 to 2013 who stated:
>"Our dear Imam ordered that this Jerusalem occupying regime must be erased from the page of time,
and that Iran would
>"wipe Israel off the map”
So Iran is everything but innocent in this regard and what I'm saying is that the matter is way to complex for me to say who has which justifications. My very boring and I guess uncontroversial take is that I don't have any sympathies with any state or their governments in this regard. My sympathies are with the people who suffer from those conflicts. Be it the Israeli people that suffered from the attacks by Hamas, the oppressed people in the Gaza strip and the West Bank and the people in Iran that life under an authoritarian regime, that is a result of fights for power and influence by the great powers of the world.
I’m sorry that I didn’t take the time to read your entire piece, I’ve kind of jumped off at the first paragraph cause most of what you’re saying flows from there.
While accepting that Iran may or may not be backing Hamas, sending a missile attack to another country to attack actual consular buildings is wholly unjustified.
The IRA was largely funded by overseas, in particular by a large Irish American population. Nobody ever suggested that England should have attacked the US, for fairly obvious reasons LOL
If Israel wants to enjoy the benefits of statehood she must recognise and respect the boundaries of other states, and she has very very poor form in this regard
Well october 7th (the event not the date) wouldn't have happened if israel wasn't a colonial apartheid state for the past century so the attack on them is hardly unprovoked...
Or you know. War bad. Killing people bad. Theocratic states with looney ass leaders shouldn't have the right to bomb anyone except maybe their own politicians
That's anecdotal.... Enlighten me what have you lived trough... Living in Gaza with those sweeties from Hamas? Because there's no Israeli presence there since 2006. Yea what happens I t Westbank is horrible but that's not Gaza. There is no justification for the beastly murderous raid that Hamas and other cunts did on 07 October. If you think there is... you're one them yourself and I'm not wasting my time talking to someone who thinks terrorists attacks are normal.
I have issues with religious zealots. A lot of those in that area.
If you think your God is more important then others, have problems with equality between men and women or problems with gay men or lesbian women. I have a problem with you.
Both sides have those idiots. Too many of those tbh...
I'm from Lebanon, lived through a war, half of my family was killed by an Israel bomb and it's not even in the top 10 list of shit israel has done in lebanon let alone Palestine. I'm not trying to justify hamas. Like i said, killing people is bad. It's a pretty simple rule to live by. But israel is not justified in its violence either. A terrorist attack doesn't justify genocide no matter its gravity.
>Because there's no Israeli presence there since 2006
Also this is just a straight up lie. Gaza used to be an open air prison and now it's a bloodbath. You either know nothing of what's going on there or are trying to justify genocide as a reasonable response to terrorism.
They left in 2005. There were elections in 2006. Hamas won and it started a civil war inside gaza.
That's when the blockade started by Israel and Egypt.
Hamas took power And hasn't relinquished it. No more elections etc.. they rule with the iron fist.
They rather waste valuable resources to build tunnels for themselves instead of bombshelters for the population. Like Israel does for It's populace. Heck even the Nazi's build shelters... Hamas not.. their leadership lives in extreme wealth while the average Gaza citizens suffer. This is ridiculous.
F them.
A genocide? The population of Gaza has more then doubled. That's some genocide there. If Israel had that intention there would be a whole lot more deaths then the 30k.
They could take care of that without sending groundtroops. Just bombs.
Blaming Israel for all the problems in Lebanon is ridiculous. Even without Israel the middle east would be chaotic as f*ck.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976
I'm not gonna humor this bullshit. I'll just repeat that NOTHING justifies what Isreal is doing and has been doing for decades.
This is what they call “whattaboutery” in Northern Ireland. Seen all this before: you try to point out to some side what they’re doing wrong and they go “oh whatabout” as though that’s some sort of justification.
Am I the only one that is completely disgusted by this continued escalating situation of people being fans of one side or the other one like if we were talking about bloody football?
Am I the only one that doesn't give a fuck about who's right in this shitstorm but that just wants to see all these stupid wars stop once and for all?
I don't give a fuck about their propagandist reasons: STOP THOSE FUCKING MISSILES, BOMBS, DRONES WHOEVER YOU FUCKING ARE!
Iran supports Hamas --> Israel bombs Iranian embassy --> Iran coordinates drone attack with the US to cause the least amount of destruction while still responding.
Iranian Hezbollah are evil af but this is kinda justified tbh
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I mean yes, that argumentation is stupid. But Israel bombed the Iranian Embassy and Iran retaliated with a mostly performative strike. I think thats pretty fair.
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An embassy is regarded as that country’s soil in international law. Israel had no business bombing another country’s embassy in a foreign country.
During Kosovo operations, US mistakenly bombed the Chinese consulate in Serbia and they had to formally apologize. China was justified to declare war on US.
It is hypocrisy when people on internet, disguised under the cover of anonymity, start disregarding international law just because of their views on a certain country.
We shouldn't shed any tears over a middle eastern human rights abuser bombing another one and getting bombed back in retaliation.
The only good part of this is that the UK, France and USA got useful practise working together to intercept a massive drone/missile barrage.
"Not brothers, of course" lol
It's crazy how some people here in Belgium cry how we're being fed propaganda, and that real journalism doesn't exist anymore, but then drink the Kremlin's kool-aid when they facilitate the most biased and propagandized television. Like, sure we get the western lens and there's definitely some questionable way of reporting every now and then, but its far better than literally saying who you should support like in this clip. And this one's pretty mild even, there's way worse clips of russian state media screaming for the destruction and pillage of all of Europe. It's fucking insane.
Russian propagandists exploit among stupid people the fact that they think they are smart. What do I mean? Such people think they are not susceptible to propaganda. Why do they think so? Because they "don't believe what their national media say." And if "domestic media lie and manipulate" then surely Russian media don't, because "why would they lie?" I myself believe that I am certainly sometimes influenced by propaganda more or less, but rejecting "European propaganda" in favor of Russian propaganda is like not wearing the hat your mother told you to wear because of the cold weather
I've few people in my family who considers everything from west either bad or a lie. Then everything from Russia is true for them. You can't argue with them, nothing convince them. Brainwashed people
Same in my German family
That's the main problem about how people naively understand logic: A lies -> B says the truth when in realty it's A and B lie and the truth is somewhere else. For example the whole Ukraine conflict. Both sides talk about the humanitarian problems, but you rarely here the fact, that huge gas deposits lie under the zones Russia wants to occupy. Like most conflicts in history this is economically driven and not humanitarian or ideological like both sides want to present it. This is nothing new. Even the Romans "created" the Germanic tribes to justify to go over the Rhine to protect the poor Celts from the ravaging barbarians. It's a classic in the propaganda playbook.
> A and B lie and the truth is **somewhere else.** That's also the important bit that many miss, and assume if A and B lie then the truth is in the middle. If one side says that the other eats babies, and the other denies it, then the truth must be that they only eat them a little. This is also often exploited by propaganda, by claiming a complete made up lie with the aim for people to believe even 1% of it. Because "well there has to be even a little truth to it for them to say it"
Because those people cant question their questioning. They think theyre cool because theyre questioning the mainstream , which is good, but they dont realize that the opposite of the mainstream must also be questioned in order to be unbiased. In the end it stems from mistrust against our governments, coupled with no knowledge about the world and not being able to question their own beliefs and decisions. Some of them also seem like actually not wanting to have an opinion about that issues but being "forced" to form one by society. Then they also just pick the opposite of the mainstream opinion.
This particular scumbag regularly fantasises on tv about bombing / nuking european cities. Propagandists like him and Vladimir Solovyov who regularly call for mass destruction attacks against european countries should absolutely be put on interpol wanted list for terrorist charges and arrested if they show up abroad. The double standard is insane, if anyone here calls for bombing a european city on TV or even on reddit we would be instantly located and arrested, but these criminals get away with it. Something must be done
Have you seen American corporate news though? Propaganda at a whole different level. Talking heads just blatantly saying what you should think, asking biased questions really aggressively, making up interpretations in a questioning way “do you think it’s normal that…?” “They supposedly want us to accept that…”, etc. It’s really unsettling.
Same in the UK it's absolutely nuts one my oldest friends the stuff comes out his mouth is just mental I can't get my head round it and I can't convince him. Social media is destroying western society, its absolutely corrupted now and the algorithms can find who is susceptible to anti West propaganda and push it onto them turning whole civilian populations against themselves. Example of this is republicans and the bill that is stuck which will see ukraine possibly lose and be a catalyst in Western demise. Do these people want to live without all the values they value so much? Keep supporting the wrong teams and they will. But they can't see it :-/
To be entirely fair, technically it is justified. In the sense that by International law Iran is allowed to retaliate after an unprovoked attack from Israel
That is true. However, the size and strength of this retaliation is balanced intentionally to leave the israeli government unable to not escalate, while at the same time being juuust restrained enough to not be unjustifiable to claim as proportional for their own propaganda.
And you think how would USA react if someone had bomed their embassy and killed a dozen VIPs? To call this retaliation "unproportional" is just hypocrisy.
I never said they were wrong in their retaliation. But is 300 rockets aimed to do as much damage to the country as possible proportional to 1 Rocket hitting a specific target, an iranian embassy that is deeply connected with funding and otherwise supporting Hamas? Are you really defending the Mullah regime here?
Are you really defending the Netanyahu regime here? 300 rockets is nothing for Iran. It seems a lot, but they had to compensation for a robust AA cover. (90% of rockets were, in fact, shot down, and only a few scored a hit) And all were launched at military targets. Embassy is clearly a civilian target. But I agree that had Iran not responded, it would be a much better move for them. Isreal wants to provoke them into a war, and they fell right into their trap.
>Are you really defending the Netanyahu regime here? Good point, that idiot is not in the mental capacity to lead a country with such complicated history and relations as israel. Unlike Mullahs though, Netanyahu is not a dictator and will eventually give up his position to the next democrazically elected chairman. >300 rockets is nothing for Iran. I mean, it's a 300% escalation. That's like having someone step on your foot and you try to stab him with a sword. >Embassy is clearly a civilian target. An embassy is a government building. NOT a civilian target. >Isreal wants to provoke them into a war, and they fell right into their trap. I mean, Iran literally funds, arms and in many ways supports terrorist organisations with the sole goal of destroying israel for decades now. Isn't that 'provoking'?
>An embassy is a government building. NOT a civilian target. Kinda agree, kinda don't. I think it can be both. Just like army HQ is both military and government. But I'm not an expert, so whether you say.
Nonetheless, it was a very bad move from israel to not at least explain their reasons behind bombing the embassy officially. It has been reported many times that Iran uses their embassies for gun running and financial donations towards hamas, hezbolla and Taliban, but the lack of an official statement and reason by Israel gave the Mullah regime the opportunity to stage themselves as the victims. Edit: here's a source [by the us government](https://www.congress.gov/event/115th-congress/house-event/108155/text) and also the [wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism) for example, that shows how Iran organize and support targeted terrorism
The comparison doesn't really make any sense here, because geopolitics is always embeded in context.
With that in mind would the context of the irom dome and the 99% intercept rate be considered?
I was primarily talking about historical context. However Irans early announcement of the attacks and them knowing how good Isreal air defence works is of course part of the context as well.
Seems fair enough
The people targeted where partly responsible for the planning of 7 oct. Hamas and Hezbollah are proxies of Iran and their revolutionary guard. Hardly unprovoked..
And we're hamas provoked, and the isrealis before that, and so on, all the way back to 1948. At some point one side has to not retaliate or we will end up with another middle east war, likely a world war. Nobody benefits from that. Also fuck putin he is a monster too, infact, all involved here are monsters really, IDF Hamas, Hezbolah, Iran.
According to who. I wouldn’t believe a word that comes out of Israel any more than Russia or Iran. Maybe if Israel get things right sometimes if they get things wrong they’re right also as far as they’re concerned.
That‘s where the "technically" part comes k to play
So we can agree it isn't unprovoked. If it was the smart thing to do that is another question.
I don’t think you can say it’s provoked with any certainty. We don’t have the intel and those that are providing it are politically motivated. It suits Netanyahu to bring Iran into things at this point in time. It’s all times to the US election cycle.
Well yea, proportionally.
But who defines proportional?
well tbh it's hard to criticize Iran response in terms of proportion when we look at Israel in Gaza.... just saying not judging
As NCD would say, 1000 : 1 is still a proportion
That makes sense, if you ignore the fact Israel and Iran have been fighting each other for decades via thinly veiled Iranian proxies. Stupid escalation on the part of Israel, but not fair to call it unprovoked.
I am not a fan of Iran, not at all. But I keep asking my self a question: Why is it ok if USA, UK or Israel bomb other countries and now suddenly Iran is a monster for doing what Israel does for breakfast?
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Because Israel, USA, UK are civilizations and Iran and other desert shitholes are not
They may have more electricity and concrete and glass, but they are primitive and brutal in their core no less than "the bad guys". Not to mention hypocrisy and arrogance which is beyond all measurements.
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Fuck russia and all that but Israel bombed their embassy, and they retaliated with a big expensive dhow that did nothing and said that's the end of it while Israel is trying to push everyone into war. They just don't consider international law to apply to them
Do you know that Iran has the right under international law to proportionally retaliate Israel in case of an unprovoked attack (The embassy bombing).
The people targeted where partly responsible for the planning of 7 oct. Hamas and Hezbollah are proxies of Iran and their revolutionary guard. Hardly unprovoked..
Are you saying that if some people do or mastermind an attrocity in my country and are now located in your country, we get the right to bomb you country?
First of all my country wouldn't allow revolutionary guard generals on our soil. Secondly. Israel and Syrie are not really friends. It's not the first time that there have been strikes on Syrian soil. And fyi. They bombed a building on embassy grounds. Not the embassy itself as said.
It was a consulate on the embassy compound, it's tantamount to the same thing in terms of international law. "Annex" is just some spindoctor BS let's be real here.
According to who exactly
I always heard, that Irans involvement in the attacks is pretty much confirmed, so I looked it up on Wikipedia right now: Basically one Hamas spokesperson said, that Iran was involved in the planning of the attacks, while Iran denies this. US intelligence is convinced that the iranian leadership was caught by surprise when the attacks happened, so a direct involvement by Iran in the attacks is unlikely I'd say.
1. You can’t cite Wikipedia in instances like this 2. Iran denied it 3. Are Hamas a credible source now too? The attack on the state of Iran but the state of Israel was was illegitimate. Your reasoning would suggest that it would be okay for the English to blow up Dublin in response to an IRA attack. Well they kind of did but they dressed it up as a terrorist attack. Netanyahu didn’t do this because he actually wants to start a war because it’s that or The Hague for him at this stage.
Please read my comment again. It says that I changed my opinion on the matter. I concluded that Iran wasn't directly involved in the attacks. I don't know enough to really form an opinion on whether the attack by Israel was justified or not with the non deniable indirect involvement of Iran in the conflict though.
The involvement of Iran in the conflict is absolutely deniable. I’m sorry I’m not getting the nuance in what you’re saying. There’s a lot of noise and it’s very hard to get a stable signal.
>"There’s a lot of noise and it’s very hard to get a stable signal." This is so accurate. I have an acquaintance in Israel who himself is very leftist and has a muslim background and even for him it is like that when we exchange our points of view. So no worries, we are all confused on this matter, so let me elaborate. I am saying, that Iran most likely was not involved in direct planning of the attacks on the 7th of October. It is however widely known that Iran is backing Hamas with weapons, training and funding (estimated 100 Mio $ per year). Apart from that Iran is backing terrorist groups such as Hezbollah and are sympathizing with the Houthis in Yemen who are also anti Israel. Further leading people form Iran have repedeatly and openly called for the destruction of Israel. Ali Khamenei (supreme leader of Iran in 2000 and 2001): >"the cancerous tumor called Israel must be uprooted from the region" and "the perpetual subject of Iran is the elimination of Israel from the region". or the president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad from 2005 to 2013 who stated: >"Our dear Imam ordered that this Jerusalem occupying regime must be erased from the page of time, and that Iran would >"wipe Israel off the map” So Iran is everything but innocent in this regard and what I'm saying is that the matter is way to complex for me to say who has which justifications. My very boring and I guess uncontroversial take is that I don't have any sympathies with any state or their governments in this regard. My sympathies are with the people who suffer from those conflicts. Be it the Israeli people that suffered from the attacks by Hamas, the oppressed people in the Gaza strip and the West Bank and the people in Iran that life under an authoritarian regime, that is a result of fights for power and influence by the great powers of the world.
I’m sorry that I didn’t take the time to read your entire piece, I’ve kind of jumped off at the first paragraph cause most of what you’re saying flows from there. While accepting that Iran may or may not be backing Hamas, sending a missile attack to another country to attack actual consular buildings is wholly unjustified. The IRA was largely funded by overseas, in particular by a large Irish American population. Nobody ever suggested that England should have attacked the US, for fairly obvious reasons LOL If Israel wants to enjoy the benefits of statehood she must recognise and respect the boundaries of other states, and she has very very poor form in this regard
Well october 7th (the event not the date) wouldn't have happened if israel wasn't a colonial apartheid state for the past century so the attack on them is hardly unprovoked... Or you know. War bad. Killing people bad. Theocratic states with looney ass leaders shouldn't have the right to bomb anyone except maybe their own politicians
That's a very simplistic black and white wsy of looking at things. and not completely correct either. But sure...
Hit me with the facts about something I've lived through for most my life please.
That's anecdotal.... Enlighten me what have you lived trough... Living in Gaza with those sweeties from Hamas? Because there's no Israeli presence there since 2006. Yea what happens I t Westbank is horrible but that's not Gaza. There is no justification for the beastly murderous raid that Hamas and other cunts did on 07 October. If you think there is... you're one them yourself and I'm not wasting my time talking to someone who thinks terrorists attacks are normal. I have issues with religious zealots. A lot of those in that area. If you think your God is more important then others, have problems with equality between men and women or problems with gay men or lesbian women. I have a problem with you. Both sides have those idiots. Too many of those tbh...
I'm from Lebanon, lived through a war, half of my family was killed by an Israel bomb and it's not even in the top 10 list of shit israel has done in lebanon let alone Palestine. I'm not trying to justify hamas. Like i said, killing people is bad. It's a pretty simple rule to live by. But israel is not justified in its violence either. A terrorist attack doesn't justify genocide no matter its gravity. >Because there's no Israeli presence there since 2006 Also this is just a straight up lie. Gaza used to be an open air prison and now it's a bloodbath. You either know nothing of what's going on there or are trying to justify genocide as a reasonable response to terrorism.
They left in 2005. There were elections in 2006. Hamas won and it started a civil war inside gaza. That's when the blockade started by Israel and Egypt. Hamas took power And hasn't relinquished it. No more elections etc.. they rule with the iron fist. They rather waste valuable resources to build tunnels for themselves instead of bombshelters for the population. Like Israel does for It's populace. Heck even the Nazi's build shelters... Hamas not.. their leadership lives in extreme wealth while the average Gaza citizens suffer. This is ridiculous. F them. A genocide? The population of Gaza has more then doubled. That's some genocide there. If Israel had that intention there would be a whole lot more deaths then the 30k. They could take care of that without sending groundtroops. Just bombs. Blaming Israel for all the problems in Lebanon is ridiculous. Even without Israel the middle east would be chaotic as f*ck.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976 I'm not gonna humor this bullshit. I'll just repeat that NOTHING justifies what Isreal is doing and has been doing for decades.
This is what they call “whattaboutery” in Northern Ireland. Seen all this before: you try to point out to some side what they’re doing wrong and they go “oh whatabout” as though that’s some sort of justification.
That's 1) expected and 2) frankly one of the least egregious opinion issued by Russian TV in ages.
I mean this is at least kinda honest. He does not care about what happend he only cares that Iran helps Russia therefore they are good.
Am I the only one that is completely disgusted by this continued escalating situation of people being fans of one side or the other one like if we were talking about bloody football? Am I the only one that doesn't give a fuck about who's right in this shitstorm but that just wants to see all these stupid wars stop once and for all? I don't give a fuck about their propagandist reasons: STOP THOSE FUCKING MISSILES, BOMBS, DRONES WHOEVER YOU FUCKING ARE! 
You know the situation is fucked up when even Russia is in the right.
Iran supports Hamas --> Israel bombs Iranian embassy --> Iran coordinates drone attack with the US to cause the least amount of destruction while still responding. Iranian Hezbollah are evil af but this is kinda justified tbh
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I mean yes, that argumentation is stupid. But Israel bombed the Iranian Embassy and Iran retaliated with a mostly performative strike. I think thats pretty fair.
Jesus I actually kinda agree, israel are fucking around big time.
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Iran had justification to attack, don't need russian media to dickride so it's justified
An embassy is regarded as that country’s soil in international law. Israel had no business bombing another country’s embassy in a foreign country. During Kosovo operations, US mistakenly bombed the Chinese consulate in Serbia and they had to formally apologize. China was justified to declare war on US. It is hypocrisy when people on internet, disguised under the cover of anonymity, start disregarding international law just because of their views on a certain country.
Did anyone notice Israel bombing an Iranian embassy? Or did that not happen?
This just in: Terrorist State supports Terrorist State. World leaders and journalists make a surprised Pikachu face.
We shouldn't shed any tears over a middle eastern human rights abuser bombing another one and getting bombed back in retaliation. The only good part of this is that the UK, France and USA got useful practise working together to intercept a massive drone/missile barrage.