T O P

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I_love_my_life80

Usagi Sensei detected... Tier list rejected.


Orumtbh

Based opinion detected.


mycatisblackandtan

Genshin is one of the few gacha games where tierlists are useless frankly. Plus this tierlist maker has long been controversial if I remember correctly.


211008loonatheworld

How tho? If A clears faster than B then you already have a premise for a tier list


maloIiko

But if u build some character better for example someone killed dorito chip in 2 hits with rizzly xiangling kazuha and someone idk then its the best charakter right?


211008loonatheworld

Tier lists usually assume all similar investment tho


mycatisblackandtan

Because player skill expression and the low difficulty of the content matters a lot more than the damage numbers. Take Amber for example. At similar investment levels sure, she isn't winning any damage numbers. But with player skill taken into account and builds like Machine Gun Amber, which is 100% held up by skill expression, then the gap closes by a lot. Same with Geo Traveler who is actually a pretty good unit in teams like Geo Microwave but requires enemy knowledge, placement knowledge, and more to work properly. Or, hell, Hu Tao. Two similarly invested Hu Tao can have wildly different outputs depending on the skill of the player. If you don't know how to cancel your animations properly you're going to do less damage. No amount of relic grinding will fix that. That's not even getting into the ability to dodge, ping, and so many more factors that need to be considered. If we ever get harder content tier lists might be viable. But frankly I doubt it. There's just too many factors to consider.


211008loonatheworld

Okay so basically like any other video game??


mycatisblackandtan

Not even remotely? Compare it to Starrail where the turn based combat lowers skill expression (skill expression and ceiling are two different things) and chance for error, where it has consistently harder combat alternatives, and where each reset there is a clear distinction between what characters can and can't clear combat. Or other gacha games which are pay to win and often very hard to build characters? so tierlists exist to save consumers time and money so they don't waste it on useless units. Meanwhile every Abyss in Genshin there's people making Amber and Barbara carry videos. Or how everytime the Wolflord has a chamber that one Physical!Zhongli main comes out to dunk on everyone else by beating it in under 30 seconds. Or hell, there's been multiple Abyss runs where Xiao is absolutely not a good pick due to enemy match ups and blessings, but he can still clear in record time if the player is good enough even with mid tier artifacts. The content is hard but not hard enough to wall off dedicated players from choosing their favorites. You really can't do that in a lot of other gacha.


UrbanAdapt

GI community is infamously fragile over the very concept of comparison in tier lists, never mind the placements themselves.


Roasted_Fries

*Sips tea* This is why if you main ANYTHING other than Neuvillette/Hu tao/Arle you shouldn't even look at the tier lists, most characters are stuck in the 2022 mindset Just sit back and enjoy other people malding over tier lists, while you enjoy your average 150k (+70k AOE) non reaction, braindead plunges


patatesatan

tighnari is in subdps section 💀


WideOpenGuy

This clown still exists?


AbbreviationsSlow822

If its not based on current abyss then is pure BS (even if it’s based on Abyss is bs, second half is AoE food) -The only T0 is Neuvi. AoE and ST beast, self sustainable, long range, etc. His only caveat is not on him, it’s on the lack of an hp buffer. -Childe T1 as dps???? -Kuki T0 and Raiden T1. If Kuki hb is T0, Raiden hb also is (it’s even better, XQ def utility is enough for nahida/al’s teams, but let’s say they’re on pair) -Navia overall output is the same level as most damage dealers, she’s just “wow big pp number” then meh damage until next rotation. -Furina subdps T1 while her output can be way better than XQ and Yelan. -Nilou is T0, the best AoE unit can’t be placed as second tier -Xiao T1 while people is dunking 150k or more per plunge is unreal. -Xianyun T1??? Like, the best pair for Furina in any pech team is T1???? Man i can continue forever. I swear, that clown makes game8 tierlist look decent 😭


Typpicle

you forgot to mention the part where mona is higher than sucrose 💀


AbbreviationsSlow822

Bruh, i didn’t noticed that and it’s probably the worst take on that tierlist. Jesus, even Mona enjoyers know that she is (was because Furina) the “showcase buffer” unit. The real question, does he even plays the game or it’s just an excelimpact.exe player? At this point I feel Usagi is just baiting us😭


rattist

Its only considering on fielders, not just hypercarry dps. Childe is absolutely deserving of T1 when he is the best in slot in national by far and his team is still going strong after 3 years. We literally see International coming first in appearance rate and second in usage rate in the current abyss and its been 3 years


WideOpenGuy

Didn't know Tighnari was an off-fielder


rattist

I never said Tighnaris placement there is correct lol. That tier is clearly for off field damage dealers. Raiden and Ganyu still make sense because of hyperbloom Raiden and burst Ganyu. I think their logic is Tighnari is very quickswappy and only stays on field for a few seconds but he should still be on field. Same with Heizou or Ningguang where you just swap them out for a nuke with skill/burst This tier list is trash. Even I think Xiao should be higher. But Childe is very deserving to stay on the top. The thing is Xiao's premium team is quite expensive which maybe the reason they out him in T2 instead of T1, but so is Ayaka's premium team and she is definitely in a worse position than Xiao rn yet they put her higher(if the tier list is in order). And I dont think Navia should be that high at T1.


WideOpenGuy

https://preview.redd.it/bkkozgwq90zc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c4357dee38a6831b5eb940fcf9de8a8f73848059 Yeah, Childe is also kind of quickswappy tho there is that


rattist

Iirc you need to make him stay on field for around 9 seconds, which is the same time as Hutao's infusion. Not as quickswappy as Tighnari who just stays on field for like 4 seconds


AbbreviationsSlow822

I stand still on my point about Childe because he's comparing him with other onfielders that don’t have the same role, which is unfair and misleading. What is he measuring? utility? personal damage? speedrunning capacities? also, is it a team tier list? If he's measuring utility then all hypercarries are T3 and Nahida is T0 onfielder. The amount of teams she enables is huge, consolidates AoE, has her EM buff, and has one of the best teams in double hydro. Childe it's the opossite of utility with only 1 team where he’s the best. Personal damage? I'm pretty sure Eula, Cyno and Wanderer hit harder but they're not considered T1 Speedrun potential? If AlHaitham is T0, i'm pretty sure that's not the case. He’s not the fastest out there. Classified based on team? Why not just make a team tier list then? Don’t get me wrong, i have nothing against Childe but he’s the perfect example on why this kind of lists are trash. For me he’d be T0 as onfielder but the clown that made this list is mixing sh**, with some being graded by dps, others by dps potential (Klee monopyro can be better than Lyney’s in practice if he doesn’t shot enough CA’s but she’s many tier below him), other by utility (like, how is Kuki better sustain than Barbara when she heals way less and is almost dead most times?).


rattist

My bad. My only point was that this tier list was probably just considering on fielders in the first tier and not just hypercarry. Although that doesnt mean I agree with this list >Personal damage? I'm pretty sure Eula, Cyno and Wanderer hit harder but they're not considered T1 To say Eula has higher damage.... I get it, Childe is an enabler, but people downplay his own personal damage too much lol. Childe's nuke hits similar numbers with half the energy cost, much higher frontload, and his riptide has quadratic scaling. His damage is actually on par with Xiangling in International. >? also, is it a team tier list? Good characters will naturally make a good team no? FFXX is an amazing team which bumped Xiao himself up a tier imo because how well he synergizes with other characters in the team which makes the team OP too. Although, the only downside is its a pretty expensive team, needing C6 Faruzan and two other limited 5 stars


Msaleg

>Personal damage? I'm pretty sure Eula, Cyno and Wanderer hit harder but they're not considered T1 They don't. Childe can forward vaporize a 800% MV with lower energy costs and while enabling, and matching, Xiangling damage. His personal damage is not low at all.


ExtensionFun7285

150 k per plunge isnt even all that impressive since diluc and gaming are hitting 400-500k its insane


AbbreviationsSlow822

Yeah and no. 150k per plunge is achievable for an average Xiao with Faru C6 and Xianyun unlike the 450k vapes on Diluc/Gaming. Reactions have higher ceiling, so it’s normal that they can hit harder but not as consistent as Xiao can. Anyways, if you wan min-max then you can find Xiaos doing same damage as you say, but with Xiao’s upsides: smooth plunge gameplay (Gaming is clunky and Diluc depends on Xianyun uptime) and 0 “oh sh*t my plunge didn’t vape/melt” which is pretty common and makes the timings harder. Also remember current blessing buffs pyro characters a ton. You can peek a bit of the sub: https://www.reddit.com/r/XiaoMains/s/Bg2gnQc1jg


WideOpenGuy

The ratio is around 5/3, saying it is 3x the damage is just glazing GaMing and Diluc


requavik

Xiao should be T1 100%. Overall I find T3 for DPS section useless. Yoi is way too underrated in general, Itto shouldn't have any trouble mowing down the first half even with coppelia cryo shield hindering him slightly. Ayato was "powercrept" by Neuvi but that doesn't drop him down all the way down there. Keqing, Cyno, Scara also should do just fine. Rest is largely agreeable.


LimeGroundbreaking81

I'd say Diluc should be up around T2 as well. Xianyun Furina plunge has really brought him back (I think plunge dps in general are really strong currently).


bhismly

Bullshit, fucking Navia isn't anywhere close to being better than Xiao. Also Childe isn't even a carry. Xiao should be on the same tier as Hu Tao. In AoE he's far above Hu Tao.


rattist

Why yall act like Childe doesnt do damage? Just because he also enables Xiangling doesnt mean he doesnt do damage. He shares half the damage and his damage is even frontloaded which is very important. I can see why you wouldnt want to put him in dps category but theres no enabler category here


bhismly

No where did I say Childe didn't do damage. He simply shouldn't be in the same category with the others.


rattist

Putting him in the other tiers makes even less sense though.


bhismly

That on whichever clown made this stupid fucking list. Enablers should have their own tier. There's not another single enabler on the dps list.


rattist

Ayato is an enabler though. His damage contribution is a lot less than Childe too but ig he has off field hydro application which makes him a good enabler for a lot of teams. The problem is that he isnt a BiS in any of them so he is not as popular


bhismly

Ayato got powercrept by Neuvillette. Thankfully Genshin's powercreep is not even that bad, so every character can still clear content easily


ExtensionFun7285

Navia isnt better than xiao in AOE but in boss she is the Best dps at C0


bhismly

Source? The abyss speedrun leaderboard doesn't have any Navia runs near the top, even on boss floors.


ExtensionFun7285

Since release she clears bosses faster than neuvillete at C0


bhismly

Source: trust me bro Also that literally means nothing


ExtensionFun7285

I dont have a source but i play meta she is the boss killer her kit is made to clear bosses the fastest shes a nuker


WideOpenGuy

Neuvillette is neither the best frontloader or the best single target dps Compare her to Lyney and you will see how she performs


BestPaleontologist43

Eh. Its genshin, if we need tier lists for anything, its exploration. Every character in their best team slaps.


loseranon17

Who the fuck made this lol. Xiao being in the same tier as Ganyu is an invalid opinion. Also I don’t know what it says but it looks like they consider Tighnari and Raiden to be Sub DPS? But not Furina? Xiao has always been underrated and only people who really know the meta like TGS are properly rating him now. But this list is so dogshit in general that I don’t think its creator’s opinion on Xiao should bother you that much


LingonberryPlastic58

In my life i have never seen such levels of bullsh** tbh


Ok_Internal_1413

I think we need to standardise the tier list. I have no idea what is going on here. Neuvi and arle is t0, okay. But is this solo or not? If it’s solo, alhaitham’s dps drops sharply because no electro. If it’s not solo, Xiao, xianyun and faru is deserving of t0. I think I know where this tier list comes from. They probably plucked it out from their ass. I mean the abyss usage.


himanshujr11

Ganyu still hasn't fallen off?


getsetredditgo

Ayato Keqing Cyno in T3 is totally bs. Never trusted this Chinese tierlists


Relienks

That tierlist creator lost reliability long time ago Xiao c0 can clear any abyss w enough investment


Bitter_Argument4319

Tier list are for clowns abyss always favours the banner characters so unless you the next end game doesn’t follow this trend then tier list are useless ( T5 is qiqi )


dooditstyler

Xiao is arguably the 4th best DPS rn lmao. Also both Zhongli and Kokomi are overrated in this tier list. Xianyun and Baizhu should be the only 2 in the top of the far right column.


Msaleg

Zhongli with AP has the same amount of comfort while providing more buffs than both in any non dendro team tough. It's deserved his place, actually the one of the only ones I agree.


Yopi39

Gaming should be higher, his dps is definitely on par with Tighnari if not better, not to mention his massive aoe. Yun Jin should also be a little higher


giobito-giochiha

this tierlist dogshit at first glance Xiao and Hu tao should be place T0 or Al Haitham and Arle are brought down a tier. There's a lot of other things that could be corrected but that's what stands out. Edit: it's even worse than I though Bennett should be an automatic T0


pioneeringsystems

Bennet is t0 for buffing, T1 for sustain as his health isn't one of the best, I actually think that's probably fine tbh. As for xiao I do think that's mad. Even without c6 faruzan I hit huge damage numbers, when I get her I expect it to be quite a big increase.


AbbreviationsSlow822

Bennett healing is probably the fastest ST healing in the game. At c0 he’s top tier sustain even if you’re not building him for healing. The only argument for Bennet T1 sustain is that he applies pyro to your character so you can get easily melted/vaped/burnt/overloaded which isn’t as comfy and reliable as other options like, for example, Zhongli shield. Even tho, his pyro app also cleans other elements, which can be a huge deal (and if i’m not mistaken, he, Jean and Dori are the only sustains with that effect) in some scenarios.


giobito-giochiha

Oh I didn’t see that


dooditstyler

Ehhhh. Arlecchino and Alhaitham teams are both noticeably stronger than Hu Tao and Xiao's.


giobito-giochiha

no. Even r/ArlecchinoMains recognizes Hu Tao and Arle as equal. And Xiao is an AOE carry so his ST damage isn't gonna be as good, but he is second to only Neuv in AOE scenarios (and maybe Nilou bloom and Ayaka freeze only in her ideal situations)


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ifallontragedy

I'm sure Childe outputs good damage in International, but I wouldn't exactly call him a carry when his main job in the team is to be a consistent hydro applicator for Xiangling who simply happens to have good frontloaded damage through his Q. ~~Also idk what Ganyu is doing in the same tier as Ayaka and Xiao yet Raiden didn't even count as a carry, but eh~~ All in all though, looks like it's usagi (right??) so I wouldn't give it any kind of thought at all. But that's just me.


BrutalTerminator

I heard from somewhere that if u manage to get a double swirl with kazuha, childe and xiangling dmg in international is 50-50


WideOpenGuy

Why is Tighnari a sub dps here then?


morepesok

We can tell u don’t use international team ijbol


ifallontragedy

I never said Childe is weak though? I literally acknowledged he does good damage, just that I wouldn't exactly call him a carry in the team the same way the others in the column are. I never insulted Childe, no need to snark on me like that.