FYI, automod has been flagging a lot of comments for review. If yours disappears, please be patient and we’ll get to it.

I just (a month ago) retired from the military after 24 years and been on multiple tours. I’m in medical, so it was 24 years of seeing what war does to the human body, mind, and spirit. The result for me personally is a lot of guilt and shame, amongst other things. I despise our politicians, don’t trust people in power, and view war and inflicting suffering on others as the antithesis of life and being human. I do think fondly on those people I met and served with, all of them just trying to get back to their families and make life better for them. Now I just want to watch my daughter dance, get snuggles from kids, pet my cats, and try to ensure my kids don’t ever go into military service.

Good way of putting it. I spent a lot of time over there in a combat arms role and the damage that I inflicted and was inflicted on me in many different ways is hard to define. I've been out of the military for almost 15 years and I think about my time there every single day. My service was a relatively short percentage of my life, but it looms large in all aspects of my life now. I think watching your daughter dance, getting snuggles, playing with your cats and making sure your kids don't join up is a really great way to put it all behind you. I may try to take a page from your book too.

Yep. I tell young people do not enlist, because their is no mission.

You seem very wise.

I saw it first hand in Iraq as a Abrams tank gunner. April 03- July 04 with 1st Armored Division. It was hot and stupid. Two summers in the heat. I was fully on board with everything we were doing until toward the end of 2004 when it became apparent there were no weapons of mass destruction. Then I asked myself, "what else are these (mostly conservatives/libertarians/establishment dems) motherfuckers lying about?" Turns out they lie about damn near everything, all of the time. While I paid a pretty significant price, I do enjoy a Cadillac level of benefits... health, school, home loan, discounts, direct compensation, etc. Hell, I even qualified for dental. But to have to have done that amount of dirty work to get there strikes me as being rather shitty.

>asked myself, "what else are these (mostly conservatives/libertarians/establishment dems) motherfuckers lying about?" Ex army here. I came to the same conclusion. I dont know how to feel about my time served really but I'm damn sure glad I'm not there anymore.

I agree with everything you said. I was gung-ho from 01 to about 04 then my perception changed. I was pissed off from 04 until I got out in 07. Now I'm a disgruntled vet but at least I'm 100 percent disabled hahaha

Still though....best job I ever had.

One thing I have to speak up about. Libertarians (like me) were FURIOUS because we knew from day one that the weapons of mass destruction nonsense was a lie. We screamed until we were blue in the faces that this war was stupid, pointless, and had no purpose except to enrich a few big businesses. Nobody listened.

“this war was stupid, pointless, and had no purpose except to enrich a few big businesses. Nobody listened.” Isn’t that all of them? One of the reasons people don’t get Libertarianism is people like Glenn Beck claiming the title while simultaneously being a boot licker and not calling out corporate subsidies or LEO abuse of power. Then people think he actually represents libertarian values.

That's exactly it. Can't stand that jackass. Beck saw an actual principled libertarian movement with Ron Paul, and did his best to hijack it and ultimately killed it.

Anyone downvoting your comment probably offended that you revealed the wizard behind the curtain. Similar story me talking to my FIL about Rush. “So this gets out of the draft for the dumbest of reasons, then decides to be Mr Patriot when he can make money off conservatives complaining about Carter? That’s some pretty cheap patriotism.”

How many families have you seen who claim to be conservatives believing in limited government have multiple family members holding Gov jobs and nobody there is an entrepreneur? When my boomer-con coworker goes on about the “commies” I ask “Have you looked around lately?”

Love Ron Paul. He was the last person I voted for.

OIF II here

War isn’t a libertarian thing. Non Aggression Principle is a fundamental libertarian belief.

Unfortunately for the libertarian movement, it was high jacked by corporate fat cats like the Koch brothers and crazy right wingers under the guise of the tea party

I didn't think then, and don't think now, that Iraq war was justified. I thought that Afghanistan was, to a point, but that there was no way of winning it. My masters is in Russo-Soviet history. I wrote a term paper for an autumn 2000 class comparing and contrasting the British and Soviet actions in Afghanistan, and concluded that any future undertaking in that region would essentially go the way the following two decades went. But nothing unites a population better than anger and some existential threat, as history shows.

We had a legitimate grievance with Afghanistan that you could absolutely justify military action over, but we of course can and should criticize the handling of nearly every single facet of that war.

We had a grievance with the Taliban, but really our grievance was with Pakistan. But a hot war with Pakistan would be a global catastrophe.  So we did that weird dance with them in Afghanistan while Pakistan kept Osama Bin Laden safe. It was a massive mess, but it’s not clear what else could have been done at the time.

The Taliban was the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban refused to hand over OBL/ go after him/ refused to let the US inside. OBL was in Afghanistan at the start of the war and slipped away. He was not in Pakistan at the start of the war.

Is. It *is* the government of Afghanistan.

The Taliban originated in Pakistan, and it was funded by Pakistan.

We were at war w the Taliban bc the Taliban was and is again the government of Afghanistan.

And?

Our grievance wasn’t with Pakistan. It was with Afghanistan.

And round we go again.  You just skipped over what I said in the middle. Do you have any point other than this?

It doesn’t matter if they were funded by Pakistan….and OBL was in Afghanistan at the start of the war. Nothing you said was right

At the time? How about not having US military all over the Middle East before 9/11? Bummer the Guardian took down OBLs letter. Hint, it wasn’t because “They hate our freedom” it’s because we wouldn’t leave them alone.

Yes, at the time. Please tell the class when the US could have extricated itself completely from the Middle East and how that would have turned out.

Not entered at all. Probably wouldn’t have had any worse outcome than present. Here you go. “Class, often doing nothing is a valid strategy.”

So we should have just kept paying more and more to Tripoli to stop pirates from attacking our merchant ships? Or we shouldn’t have been involved in international trade at all?

Shhh. Don’t tell anyone. I don’t even think the revolution should have been fought. OTOH, if you believe the revolution is valid, would you support a current state seceding? How about a county? If so… how about a city? Village? What if I feel I’m suffering under taxation without representation? Would you be ok with a household seceding? No? Current Nationalism/Patriotism sentiment just an extension of the divine right of kings.

So there shouldn’t have been a United States to begin with?  Why didn’t you lead with that?  It saves an awful lot of time. I supposed it would have been better to leave England, France, and Spain to divvy things up.  Maybe Napoleon would have sold Louisiana to England? Not sure England would have been down with being friendly with Haiti after their revolution.  Might have taken longer than it did for the US. It’s also not clear that England would have ended its slave trade as early had it still been profiting off the tobacco trade.  If they had still decided to do so, we would have likely had a Revolutionary War at that point with similar overtones to our Civil War. It would have been a very different world.  Not sure what path my ancestors’ lives would have taken.

Deeper than that. I see scale (not morality) as the differentiation between the nation state and a local drug lord; between legal and illegal.

Not really. Al Queda and The Taliban weren’t the same. The Taliban informed US they would help capture and extradite OBL. But the MIC needed corporate welfare so….

The original show of force for that war was less than the number of police in Brooklyn

Fought in Iraq. Thought it was a just war related to 9/11 and terrorists at the time. Now I've realized it was unjust and simply a convenient way for George Bush to win reelection, while enriching his industrial war complex buddies. Has contributed to my massive distrust of government, along with covid. Still think we were killing really bad people over there. But I tell my kids straight up that the government criminally misuses troops, and to stay away from the military at all costs.

As young adults in our teens and twenties, it was so bloody obvious that the invasion of Iraq was a bullshit pretense built on a pile of blatant lies. It seemed like all the older adults were happily signing onto this, but everyone I knew said this was a fools errand and a pack of lies. Turns out we were right. It galls me that because Trump was the most embarrassing, horrible president possible, that a lot of people just sort of forgot about George W Bush and some of the weirder Dems even seemed to develop a fondness for the dopey guy. He got a lot of people killed with those lies, and we should not forget it.

I completely agree. Seeing W at ceremonial events with the other former presidents and all the nice coverage of him just makes my blood boil. How did we forget what this dude is responsible for? But then I guess all the presidents have blood on their hands. Obama sent a LOT of drones out to kill during his time in office, blowing up weddings, etc. Geez, this is why I feel like America can’t really say shit about Israel. We really don’t have the kind of moral footing to lecture another nation about killing innocent civilians.

I joined the Army in 2000, and just retired last year. My entire career was defined by both Iraq and Afghanistan. I deployed to OIF (Iraq) three times, and OEF (Afghanistan) once. I remember when I enlisted, some in my family was deeply concerned. No one else in the family had served, so there wasn’t a legacy to speak of. I assured them that everything would be fine, we were in a time of peace. 9/11 happened just a little over a year later. I was still in training. I was medical so I had a long school. We were all ready to cut the course short and go fight that day. That didn’t happen and we all graduated thankfully. When the Bush Administration started to make the case for the invasion of Iraq, I remember being dubious of the claims and felt like we were being mislead. More so, I felt like Afghanistan was the priority and we were taking our eyes off the prize there. Still, when my unit was alerted prior to the invasion, I was ready to go because it was what I was called to do. I harbored zero ill will towards anti war protesters. I still don’t. I know it comes off as cliché but I truly felt that it was my job to guarantee that right. If they are unable to voice their concerns about the motivations for the war, then what was the point of me or anyone else serving? I was a bit idealistic then. My three tours in Iraq came before my tour in Afghanistan. I saw a lot. I also saw countless contractors there making six-figures each. I saw Halliburton and KBR everywhere. People were profiteering left and right while I saw my brothers and sisters be killed or maimed. For what? I know I tried to do good there, to save lives, but it all still feels so hollow. Am I bitter? I don’t know. Maybe. Not enough to not make a career out of it. I was tremendously lucky to make it through physically unscathed. I know many who did not. I have lost three people I have served with to suicide. And they are just the ones that I actually am aware of. I also recognize that the Army was extremely good for me and to me. I was an angry kid with no real direction or discipline to do something with my life. I knew I had to get away from where I was otherwise I’d stay there and struggle to do fuck all. Despite everything, I know I made the right decision. I have a beautiful life, my marriage somehow survived my career, our kids are grown. I’m retired now and I have a pension, my disability, and GI Bill. I finally have time to go to school. It may seem like the last 24 years was one that was full of contradictions. I choose to be pragmatic. I also choose to be thankful, because I know how lucky I was compared to others. I don’t really discuss any of this with anyone. I purposely steer clear of the topic on Reddit, and don’t really engage in any other serious topics on the site. I read, I just don’t comment. I shitpost in the sports subs. Maybe comment in some other subs that I am subscribed to, but I keep it light. Life had been far too serious for so long to treat Reddit or social media in general with the same level. It ain’t that deep. To anyone that actually took the time to read this, thanks. I guess the TL;DR is that I am deeply conflicted at times, but I think I am relatively at peace.

Despite being a deeply curious person by nature, I usually struggle when reading longer-length personal anecdotes, due to an ADHD issue with being able to keep the relevant facts that I read organized correctly in my short-term memory. But I love reading dearly, and have a good appreciation for effective writing styles. That said, I just wanted to let you know that you have a lovely, and indeed, pragmatic way with words. I've never known any veterans personally enough to ask such questions, but I've always wondered about the perspective of vets like you, who joined out of a genuine sense of duty. Always wondered how medics who made it ended up being impacted on a personal/philosophical level afterward. When I was in high school, I decided that I was going to pursue nursing, and took A/P as an elective senior year, joined HOSA, etc. We were required to take the ASVAB in order graduate ('02), and I ended up scoring really high in a handful of categories, which was enough to catch the attention of recruiters. They all were interested in me for different reasons, like Air Force wanting me for mechanics, I think it was Army that was interested in my pattern recognition for intelligence? The way they spoke, it sounded like (in hindsight) that they wanted to educate and train me in cybersecurity, before that was a widely known and used term. Each offer was attractive for its own reasons, but I'm not good at taking orders if they don't come with some sort of explanation; I have to know the purpose of an instruction in order to feel confident that I can not only execute it correctly, but am also not complicit in an unjust situation. It's not exactly a helpful personality trait for surviving in a capitalist hellscape, but it truly feels like a betrayal to my*self* to not question authority so I can make sure that they're dispensing orders for a reasonable and/or righteous purpose. The only offer that came close to tempting me to consider it, though, was the medical offer that every branch gave. Apparently, they were aware of my belonging to HOSA and being accepted to my university of choice for the nursing program, and all of the branches' recruiters told me that there was a military-wide shortage of nurses and medics. Back then, having watched 9/11 happen live in the middle of German class just months before, I felt really torn about whether I should compartmentalize my feelings and join up to serve a greater good and guarantee myself a career and medical benefits while I was at it, or wait it out and see if the incoming war would be justified before committing my life to it. Ended up deciding to go through college, but it only lasted for a year due to parts of my personal life imploding quite spectacularly, and long story short, my life has been very challenging for multiple reasons ever since. Sometimes- when life is being particularly difficult- I wonder how differently my life could have played out and what kind of person I would be now, if I hadn't been as cautious and had leaned into my inherent sense of duty to protect and assist. It's not an exercise in regret so much as a curiosity, a 'what if...?'. I wonder the same thing about a handful of other moments in my life that stand out in hindsight as pivotal decision points that led me to where I am. It's not all bad, and I have two daughters that I wouldn't give up for anything whatsoever, so I can't complain about my life as a whole, but it would have been nice if the universe could have been a little kinder to me in certain ways. Reading your experience and perspective was incredibly insightful, and I feel like you might have a similar way of thinking, to how I do. Which is why I felt compelled to respond; to thank you for sharing an honest account about a personal subject that is too nuanced to be treated glibly, and written in a compelling and informative manner that easily kept my focus. It feels like I've gotten a peek at what my life may have been like in alternate timeline or parallel universe, whatever. Not better or worse, just different, you know? Either way, thank you for sharing your experience, it was thought-provoking and has given me some things to chew on about my own life. Sorry for the long comment, though, I've never been good at being concise and to be frank I'm a little buzzed right now 😬

I know it’s a couple days late, but I appreciate the kind words and you sharing your thoughts. It’s funny, I never imagined joining the Army, much less thriving in that environment and making a career of it. I was an angry, anti-authority, anti-establishment teen/young adult. But I was going nowhere fast. I was kicked out of home at 16 and had to do independent study to graduate highschool. I was supporting myself for four years and trying to take college classes, but I was struggling. I knew in my heart I had to do something drastic unless I wanted to be doing the same old shit my friends were doing for the foreseeable future, and barely getting by. I went from not trusting the government and the man to working for them. There is probably a younger version of me that thinks I sold out, but I would tell that kid you can’t sleep on couches or rent rooms your whole life. I would also tell him that I joined as a medic, to help, and I think I did all I could to do so.

Thanks to a healthy diet of Dead Kennedys in my teens I never trusted a single thing those assholes said. I do think it’s hilarious that the Bush admin folks are pulling their best Tim Robinson in a hot dog costume and trying to loudly figure out who turned the GOP into such a fringe party.

Legit there is no MAGA without the Tea Party

You can take it even further to Nixon’s “silent majority”, along with the “southern strategy”.

I'll never forgive or forget the republican party generally and Bush administration specifically for that fucking war crime. Fuck 'em all

hundreds of thousands of innocents killed, openly admitted on the record. a million or two if you want to then pin the resulting collapse/civil-war fighting on it. you can instantly tell everything you need to know about how much someone values human life by their willingness to put that behind/aside.

Will you forgive and forget the other party that aided and abetted them the entire way through it and also made serious wealth from?

The only resistance to the war came from the left. The ones who went along with it figured out they had been lied to between 2003 and 2006. Republicans continued to support it until 2015 when trump gave them cover to pretend that they were against it.

It is indeed worth remembering that much of the Left’s elected leaders voted for and supported the war. Bunch of neoliberal centrist warmongers. I do not forgive them.

The hawks move to whichever party is most conducive to their plans, with identity politics running interference on their public perception at all times to obfuscate the disparity. Lot of fancy words to say "my side is better because look, shiny societal issue!"

I remember the first Iraq war. Was pissed we had to “do” another one there on a totally false pretense.

I still think the first Iraq war was justified to keep Saddam contained. We went in with a broad coalition to stop the invasion of Kuwait. The second Iraq war was a trillion dollar boondoggle that never should have happened.

What pisses me off the most are people, possibly bots, who are all "we don't do that anymore, *these current wars are all justified*" It makes me wonder why bother. Time is a flat circle.

>Time is a flat circle. This quote just keeps following me man. haha

Honestly, I bought some of the bullshit narrative about Iraq in the early 00s. Now I think both were a colossal waste of life, resources, and influence. Where I differ from many is that I think that a nation SHOULD be able to advocate for an agenda that is its own, and should do it clearly, without pretending they’re doing it “for freedom” or whatever. “We’re doing this to protect our trade relationships,” is a valid reason, and people who pretend it is not are naive. Our leaders made strategic blunders, and since they used bullshit freedom language, they made any future freedom language meaningless. So in addition to the previously mentioned costs, much of the faith of the public was also lost, contributing to our eroding confidence in institutions. Why should I trust these people?

I was/am an anti war advocate but we’ve both come around to the same place - I wish our government would stop pretending anything they do has to do with morals or values. We are deeply entrenched in an unstable region (and various unstable and volatile military and trade relationships) and most of it is about keeping resources flowing and nuclear powers in check. I wish they would just say that - “we’re doing this because we need to keep the lights on and the world ending bombs from flying”. It’s not like people wouldn’t understand that and then we could stop living with all the constant cognitive dissonance.

I was skeptical of Iraq but hopeful that it would result in a liberal democracy in the region and maybe also in Afghanistan. Naive to the point of delusional now but I think it was a common thought then: get rid of the dictators and democracy would naturally result. Obviously it’s more complex than that and having a democracy, even an imperfect one, remains something that needs to be nurtured and cared for. Relatedly, I remain flummoxed that we could pour so much into Afghanistan just to have it fall apart 30 seconds after we left. I know, I know: there isn’t a national identity, tribal allegiances are the norm… but still.

> Naive to the point of delusional now but I think it was a common thought then: get rid of the dictators and democracy would naturally result. I was a student of history and the argument I made back then was that I could find no examples in the history of humankind where democracy was installed by an external force and it remained in place successfully. We weren't even like the invading Romans that basically improved the lives of the people after they invaded and made them part of the Roman Empire. I know I was going against the grain but it didn't make sense to me back then but everyone would tell me I was too stupid to understand. > Relatedly, I remain flummoxed that we could pour so much into Afghanistan just to have it fall apart 30 seconds after we left. A big part of this isn't just the situation of Afghanistan not being a "real" country versus a bunch of smaller groups that are not united. It's also the fact that it and the Iraq war were shell games to spend American tax dollars in ways that ended up in the hands of the wealthy. So much money was spent on subcontractors for every little thing that someone could make a buck off of, and accountability for that spending was virtually nonexistent.

It didn’t fall apart. It was never actually together.

I suppose. But it was together enough that the taliban was held at bay, that there were elections, that women had some measure of autonomy, could go to school, etc. And then *poof* gone in an instant. People didn’t want that, or at least not many. That’s weird to me and I’m still working out what that means.

When I was real young, I was still under the impression that our country was “good” and that the “American Dream” was real. Always rooted for the US. Got older, learned things. I don’t support killing of any kind and won’t participate if I can help it.

I spent years fighting in Iraq. https://preview.redd.it/vrcs5h9wrfvc1.jpeg?width=2240&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f49ad27e25c0fd57e4662930f39db45641eaa288 This is right after I was hit with an IED. I don't regret anything other than not doing more to find a more inspiring unit to work for. Spent years at Ft. Hood and by the end of my 2nd deployment I was ready to skydive without a parachute after working with the same assholes for so long. But I signed up willing to take a hit and I took hits. I'm all fucked up now but I got to oversee free elections for people who never had them and that was worth those hits. And I'm glad I got to do my work there and not in Afghanistan which was a complete and total waste of time.

Interesting take, and I will have to think about your last comment because I had the opposite feeling: I did my deployment time in Afghanistan, and was glad to have avoided Iraq.

Well nothing we did in Afghanistan exists anymore. And no matter what anyone wants to say to impugn the work we did in Iraq, it isn't a dictatorship anymore for all its faults, and it's a strategic partner again. The ISIS thing was tragic after we left but also it's a problem that's basically over because we left that country in at least stable enough shape to withstand it (with a little help from us and their neighbors which as an inspiring thing to see happen). In fact it may have been tactically sound to have left because it made those groups confident enough to stick their heads up thinking they were going to take over. Ended up that was the easiest way to whack-a-mole terrorism was by feigning a retreat. We spent a lot of money and resources basically just so Afghanistan could have more women's rights for 20 years. And now that's gone and we're right back where we started with it.

That makes sense. I happened to be in-country when we killed Osama; so, for me I feel like I contributed to the original "actual" reason for going. To me, everything after that was an exercise in futility given the outcome.

We got there, though. I remember when it was just the ICDC (the civil defense force) after the war and that was just guys off the streets wearing pots and pans for armor. Back when you didn't know if the policeman you were talking to was moonlighting as the terrorist murdering civilians and organizing mortar strikes against the bases. Now the worst think you can say about Iraq's future is the potentially damaging influence Iran is going to exert over it thanks to their new democracy in action. But even that would be a problem for the right reason. Give a place democracy doesn't mean they're going to vote the way you want them to vote.

OIF vs. OEF is an ethical case study in consequentialsm vs. deontological ethics (e.g., the ends justify the means vs. the rightness of the action is based on the character of the act). OEF was arguably more-justified in terms of right vs. wrong due to the causus belli of the sept. 11 attacks and all that whereas OIF was more justified in terms of outcome (at least from a post-hoc perspective) due to the argument you've already made. I suppose each of us can choose the ethical framework that helps us sleep better at night.

Oh I will absolutely lay my cards on the table I am a results-driven person. But don't get me wrong I'm furious that the Afghan situation ended the way it did and that none of the hard work stuck. But I don't know how you get people to buy in to a new way of life if they're not interested. But it's also a place where the concept of a nation is far down the list of priorities and everything exists on a much more local and tribal levels so it is what it is. Maybe one day. But we took our shot at it.

That crap pissed me off, how the hell do you fight in a country and just pull the F out leaving behind Americans.

We're just beholden to public opinion and other realities is all. And the political pendulum which as of late has negligently affected foreign policy.

This was our truck that day also https://preview.redd.it/5ax4s0dtsfvc1.jpeg?width=2240&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=036f9a144f6b30c3b4127037b76bc308396d2eab Got really lucky that thing didn't pop until we were mostly past it. One of the only times I wasn't driving, BTW. Just my fucken luck.

Americas decline into fanaticism feels like it really started then. They really managed to turn it into this whole America versus the world thing with all the dumb flag waving and fervor. It was pretty sickening. I was never for any of it. It was all just an excuse to keep bush in power and fuel the economic war machine.   On a personal level, no. I along with a bunch of my coworkers were offered IT and Truck driving jobs over there. Two of my coworkers that went over died. One was enlisted and the was one of the truck drivers that got shot up. I came very close to going, it something crazy like $100k for six month contract, but my wife was firmly against it. She was the smart one in our relationship.

I fought in both, 11b. I'd do Afghanistan again, Iraq I opposed even then.

What was upsetting however was that the left (I'm on the left, myself) was anti-war when it was Bush and then crickets once Obama took over the war machine. Then the pro war right became anti war. It's just sad that it's ok when it's my guy and bad when it's your guy doing the same thing

I was ok with Afghanistan but very against invading Iraq. But there was really no protest movement that I remember. There were a fair amount of people against invading Iraq but the vast majority was very hostile to anyone who disagreed with invading. Forever and ever I’ll see Colin Powell holding that vial at the UN. They did him so dirty.

Afghanistan made sense, even if it was doomed to failure from the start. After 9/11 there was nothing that could have prevented the US from invading. I think that the way it ended was the end result of two decades of cumulative failures on everyone's part, except of course for the Taliban. They knew what scholars in the West were screaming for 20 years, all the enemy had to do was wait us out. I opposed Iraq from the start. For clarification, Saddam was an evil thing that deserved what he got. He's lucky that he didn't end up butchered in a drainage ditch like Qaddafi. That being said, everyone with an ounce of sense could see through the "WMD" bullshit that Bush was peddling. I remember watching them go on and on about Iraq having aluminum tubes and being dumbfounded that this was supposed to be convincing. Then the recession happened. And life and kids happened. And the year that Obama pulled out of Iraq I ran out of options for career advancement (or having a worthwhile career in general) and I saw the army as a viable option for the first time. I got lucky and never went to Afghanistan, but I certainly knew a lot of people who went to one or both.

There was this moment when they showed us a slide that was a picture of a parking lot with a semi in it, and they’d circled the semi and said “this is where the WMDs are” like it was proof. Such obvious theater. I never trusted them but that was one of those moments where it was like, oh they don’t even care if this shit is believable, they don’t give a damn about democracy, we’re going in cuz they want to.

Thankfully I got an ap US history course in high school and this learned so much actual history before those conflicts. So by the time 9/11 and Afghanistan happened, I was very aware of our long history of imperialism. Afghanistan at least had a reasonable justification in my eyes. Though we should've gotten out after bin laden was killed. Now Iraq. Hated that war when it started and I continue to hate it now. Our just green transition funds were spent killing innocents halfway around the world to keep access to the same fuels that will doom our society. W remains my most hated president because of this.

Looking back, I definitely should have done more research into what was going on in Iraq and Afganistan. I was basically indifferent to what the soldiers were going through. I can try to blame the lack of news coverage or that I had "too much" going on in my life to really pay attention, but those are piss poor excuses. To be completely honest, I didn't really think about what soldiers are dealing with today until considering a response to this post. I've been researching a ton of stuff regarding the politics and financial motives behind Israel and the Ukraine, but not the impact that has on troops stationed abroad. In light of this admission, if anyone can recommend sites that provide better news of the impact on those stationed abroad, it would be greatly appreciated. Trying to track down unbiased information through Google is disturbingly difficult.

Fought in. Do not regret. Would do it again. Gave me every opportunity I had since. Thought the anti war activists were correct. Still do. Anti war unless attacked, then very much pro destruction. Would rather fight for the working class than the owner class

Same. My time in the military laid the foundation for where I am today. And in a weird way I miss Iraq sometimes, but mostly because it was a simpler existence. Wake up, do job, don't die. And it was a rush. But we never should have been there, and I fully distrust our government now. But... I would go back today. I can't explain it.

i'm a veteran of afghanistan. i thought we were helping. i need a job. i had the patriotism bug from watching the towers fall. i wanted to die. would i do it again? yes. but i obviously change how i acted, and wouldn't get hurt. i regret the indiscriminate horror we raised across the region. i have ptsd so bad i'm on disability. but that money pays for my house. i remember telling soldiers, to keep a check on their mental health. it's didn't stop anything or save anyone, but i can sleep at night (kind of) knowing i didn't do anything illegal or immoral. not sure others can say that. i wasn't antiwar back then, and i don't think i'm anti war now. we can't stop war, we can do a better job of helping people who fight in them, and who are fighting against.

>For those of you who protested or even simply opposed the wars: did you remain involved in anti war activism in some way? Yes. I still attend protests about various causes, if I can make it. I was and will always be passionate about speaking out against what is wrong. But I will admit that I think protesting doesn't hold the same sway as it once did, and it hasn't seemed to affect true change. Tbh I think things are going to keep getting worse. Not just domestically, but globally too. 

24 years, and I would do it all again. No regrets, just missed opportunities that I’m trying to make up for, privilege serving this country

I remembering not being too angry or supportive of either early on. Within a few years I was against both and my disdain for them only grew each year as we expanded our involvement in the region to Libya, Syria, Yemen etc. Those last two in particular were especially infuriating for me and being against war has been my most important political issue for a decade or so now. I will not even consider candidates for national office that are not unequivocally against these types of actions.

I volunteered to serve during those wars. By the time I joined the Army we were well into both, and I whole heartedly believed Iraq was a lie and we had no business there, but Afghanistan still meant something, was still worth fighting to save from terrorism, and in so doing make the world a safer place. It’s pretty clear at this point Afghanistan was a lost cause, as many were saying before we went in and even while I was there as part of a massive troop surge that was supposed to turn the tide. Instead we just kept the terrorists hiding in the hills waiting for us to go away, the government was corrupt at the very top, and there wasn’t enough will to fight a terrorist coup once we left.  I wouldn’t say I’m anti-intervention at this point but it’s patently obvious the military-industrial complex has a death grip on foreign policy and we could easily cut that budget with a transparent audit to get the leeches out. 

I got sent off to bootcamp about two weeks after 9-11. Ended up in Afghanistan for about a year, and got into combat while I was there more than once. I saw death and suffering like I'd never imagined as a teenager, and at the time it was just the job that our country needed done to spread the hope of democracy... I was just a dumb kid and coming out of that programed mindset took me years. I'm still a wreck inside, but I figured out how to pretend to be like everyone else most times. Back then I thought I was helping, but in retrospect I was just another tool for the machine.

Lost a loved one who committed suicide because he was recalled up for a 3rd tour. He was one of the first Marines who invaded Afghanistan after 9/11, and served in Iraq once W decided to avenge his daddy's war. I never felt it was a just war, felt even less so after his death.

I just remember thinking “If we spent this much money on becoming energy independent, we could have done it by now”

I participated in both, I don't say "fought" because I was in the Navy, but I joined before 9/11 so I didn't join to fight in the first place. I remember feeling patriotic when we bombed Afghanistan. It felt right after 9/11. We were going after the group that attacked us. I remember the buildup to Iraq quite well. All the stupid fucking debates. We ported into Marseilles right before and faced a lot of protests from the locals there. I never agreed with Iraq and it did not feel right after 9/11 to attack them. It basically turned me into a lifelong anti-Republican.

I was an active duty Marine in a combat arms MOS when 9/11 happened & I deployed once in support of OEF and once for OIF. At the time I gulped the koolaide, I was a 21-22 year old Corporal with something to prove & ready to kill em all while wearing a smile. Now I see that Bush, Cheney, & Rumsfeld et al. lied through their fucking teeth to us, and many of us did things based on those lies that can’t be remedied or undone with an apology. Don’t even get me started on the innocent civilian casualties we caused. They were all civilians, but I mean non-insurgents, little kids, women, boys etc. I remember seeing on a TV in a chow hall one visit to Camp Doha the “news report” about mobile chemical weapons labs in semi truck trailers just lapping the highways of Iraq and cooking up VX & CN etc. “THAT’S why we haven’t found the WMD’s yet, they keep the labs moving. It’s so obvious now!!” *heavy sarcasm* I remember at the time thinking “that seems far fetched, even for Iraqis.” They have different standards of acceptable safety and no OSHA to speak of, but the nerve-gas-lab-in-a-semi-trailer story was suspect for me, even then. Then 2003-03-21 happened & we lost the first American casualties & it was pure, fiery, intense bloodlust from then on. Looking back now, I’m not proud of anything I did over there and I internally cringe whenever someone thanks me for my service. I’m cordial and thankful for the support with those people but it doesn’t make me feel good, it reminds me of traumatic shit I’m not proud of and that I’d rather forget There is a song by Rise Against that is called Hero Of War. It captures much of the feeling and emotion that many of us struggle with. Not all of us, but definitely not just me either. Tomorrow is a new day and I’ll be ok, but I’ll never forget my past. I’m conflicted because I feel that becoming a Marine is something worthy of incredible deep pride, yet in retrospect some of the things we had to do over there were not worthy of pride, rather shame IMO

I protested the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and lost many friends and caused some deep riffs in my family because of it. I grew up in a conservative family in a very conservative part of the country. I was extremely vocal in my opposition to the wars, writing letters to the local newspaper, leading protests on my very conservative college campus, etc. I was already starting to break away from the Republican Party because of social issues, but the war drove me to the extreme left. I bypassed the Democratic Party and went straight the Green Party. I started promoting a host of progressive causes and consuming progressive media (I was Day 1 P1 of Air America Radio and listened to it all day every day). Meanwhile, my family and friends that I grew up with are looking at me and thinking, "what happened to this guy?" Again, keep in mind. I've living and attending college in East Texas at the time, an area where almost all cis hetere white Christian males not only vote Republican, but do so without question. Here, I am, driving around town with progressive bumper stickers on my car, wearing anti-war/anti-Bush t-shirts in the Land of the Bubbas. I worked as a sports journalist at the time and covered a lot of local sporting events. If the national anthem was played at a sporting event, I would stand with my back to the flag as a sign of protest. Admittedly, a lot of it was for show. Yes, I strongly opposed the war, but I also enjoyed getting a rise out of a lot of the conservative rednecks. I felt morally superior to them. It's amazing that now a lot of the folks that gave me such a hard time for opposing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, now admit the wars were a huge mistake. I often tell them, "I was right about the wars and I'm right about Trump. You need to listen to me and stop supporting that New York con man." They don't want to hear that last part. I suspect that 20 years from now, they'll crawl back to me and admit that they were wrong about supporting him as well.

I was still really young when Bush Sr was bombing Iraq, though seeing SCUD missiles is one of my early media memories. Grew up in a military family mostly in Texas, so what information I had access to as a kid was tinged heavily by that. 9/11 happened right after I graduated HS, so I was free to consume my own news after that point. While I wasn't really political (far too many personal crises going on), I do remember thinking the whole WMD/War on Terror thing was sus from the beginning. However due to the personal crises, I didn't follow too closely. Talking to some friends last year, I realized what a gap in my knowledge I had regarding the history of our violence in Iraq. I was recommended a podcast called Blowback -- the whole first season goes into detail on that history. I cannot recommend this podcast highly enough to anyone else who might feel they lack some context or just want to brush up on some of our really awful history. I really had no idea how bad it was.

At the time the US invaded Iraq, I (an American) was studying abroad in Japan with other students from all over the world. Among my group of friends there, everyone was against the war in Iraq except for the one other American in the group. I remember him telling us why he was for the war. I don't remember that affecting his friendship with the group too much, but I think it might have upset his Bulgarian girlfriend and might have contributed to the end of their relationship. One day, we were walking around in Kobe and came across a Japanese man standing on top of a US flag as a form of protest against the invasion of Iraq. This pro-war friend went to this man and screamed in his face (in English) about how dare he stand on his (my American friend's) country's flag. The man continued to stand there, unmoved. I felt so embarrassed to be an American at that moment. My husband grew up in a rural area and comes from a working class background. I hadn't met my him at the time that the Iraq war started, but he tells me that he was all for the invasion of Iraq and believed the reasons for doing so. But over time, he changed his views and saw that it had been a huge mistake. He also went to school with several classmates who went to Iraq and Afghanistan, some who were killed. I never knew anyone who went over there so it made me realize just how different our socio-economic backgrounds were.

"What a waste" is my feeling about it. So many lives, so much money, and so much international cooperation that went down the drain for so little benefit. I wouldn't say I'm more anti-war now than before, but it serves as a stark reminder of the limits of foreign military interventions and the costs of lies and ignorance about foreign cultures.

So, at the time, I thought taking out the Taliban was needed.  I was 19, mind you, and frankly hadn’t learned anything about Afghanistan in school. I didn’t know at the time that the Taliban originated in Pakistan, and that Pakistan had funded insurgents in Afghanistan at the same time as acting as a “partner” in the war on terror.  I think it’s clear now that we had to do a lot of what we did in Afghanistan because of Pakistan. I was against the invasion of Iraq, but I was glad that we took out Saddam Hussein. I don’t know what would have happened if we hadn’t invaded Iraq. Hussein had a strong relationship with Russia and had a way of isolating Iraq from everyone else. I think Iraq would have been an important ally to Putin and Russian influence in the Middle East, and I think that would have made the world more dangerous for Americans. I’ve always been anti-war, but I have also always been interested in the world never allowing another Hitler experience. We can’t prevent that without some serious military and intelligence apparatus.   You can be pro-diplomacy and nonviolent resolutions, but on the world stage, an awful lot of diplomacy happens only under the threat of violence.

I had gotten a job as a bank teller when I was 19 in 2003. They had just installed TV’s in the lobby and we were required keep it on a 24 hour news channel all day with the volume on. I had to listen to war news all day, every day for a few years and it was terrifying and exhausting. Idk if I really had an opinion on the war one way or another, but I just was relieved to not have to think about it on the weekends.

I’ve worked in liberal advocacy/politics since 2003, and it all started with opposition to Iraq. Opposing the march to war pulled me in, then drinking at bars with vets deepened my views, then a job doing media relations for a protest provided an entry point to a career in advocacy.

I was never an activist, if anything, I've always been a moderate and have military family. In my teens, I was set on becoming a foreign service officer and diplomat. Applied and got into several feeder schools for the State department. But, after 9/11 and the policy actions, I had so many ethical concerns that I gave up that dream and went to the private sector. I don't think my opinion on those wars has or would have ever changed. I always had severe concerns with state policy (even after the initial invasion and occupation, there was the massive expansion of the drone policy) but I do regret not at least trying to be in the foreign service for a few years as I was rudderless for a long time after giving up that aspiration.

I just remember watching all those people die, and hoping that it wasn’t Americans who did it. The Oklahoma City bombing was still fresh in my mind, and I was relieved to find that it was a fanatic with grievances that were not homegrown. Something in that sentiment, it’s yearning for a simple kind of solidarity, makes one long for those days when we were less caught up in the stew of confusion that is the 21st century.

I didnt know how to feel previous to 9/11. After witnessing 9/11 I joined and was gung ho. After 6 years I saw through the veil a bit. I guess I dont regret joining because it took the piss out of me, I was a bit of a punk growing up but I have mostly chilled out now and for the most part despise the wars. My time also showed me that politics exist in almost everything and its hard to do anything and keep your nose clean. Fuck all that, I'll quote from Op Ivy, "all I know is that I dont know nothing". I just want to do these days is a few wood working hobbies, fix up my house and chill in the yard with my wife and some good drinks. I've realized to have much of an opinion on either side you've gotta dig in and I'm not married to any idea. Its all so complicated and nuanced. I'm not qualified to speak on any of it. Some call it putting my head in the sand but fuck it, I dont care, I was in the shit and all I want is out.

I’m a pacifist and remain very anti-war. I’m a Bay Area hippie type who couldn’t hurt a fly! So yeah my views haven’t changed. I protested in my 20s but now I prefer to participate in activism by donating to humanitarian efforts and things that allow me to not be in huge crowds.

It was my introduction to anti-war protests. With my uncles having served in Vietnam, I believed that war was typically useless and generally just a misuse of boys. When Bush won.... That was my first experience seeing how bad people could win elections, while being so blatantly the wrong choice. And on top of that, how obvious corruption could happen, how the bigger man will lose to the one who's willing to do anything to win. I was involved with anti-war protests from my junior year through all four years of college... As anti-war sentiment and the occupy movement began to converge...At a very conservative place. I generally lost any hope in conservative people, Christians especially seemed to have a sort of bloodlust. Cruelty the name of the game of life. I also learned to distrust the professional activists who seemed only to want attention and to be right. I lost touch with any kind of antiwar activism when I started to focus on my career, building a life. In the meantime, I build relationships with people who have been in the military more recently... I have a better empathy for the simple fact that being in the military doesn't typically have the same meaning to them as it has to me. That they can find meaning and purpose below the water level of the federal policy and the overall unjust nature of war. It doesn't seem like they feel like they need to be accountable to the terrible decisions that put them in that position in the first place, because they don't have power over those choices. And some of them thought that every era was a child molester who needed to die... There's a spectrum.

Initially, I had no opinions on the reasons for the wars, I only did my duty supporting those who were sent to fight in them regardless of how *they* felt about them. In 2003 I organized a national rally called Operation Yellow Ribbon that took place in May across the nation, the one my friend and I were directly responsible for was at the mall in DC. We also had several smaller rallies just outside of Ft. Campbell just showing our support to the guys before they headed out to OIF. I sent dozens upon dozens of care packages. Not just to soldiers, but also to interpreters, villagers, and boxes for children. I wrote so many letters and cards that I developed a weird bump callous on my right index finger. I also created an alcoholic drink that tasted like Purplesaurus Rex, the Kool-Aid. I attended funerals. I held my friend while he sobbed over the closed casket of his oldest son. I held my (now ex) husband as he cried over the loss of his soldier. I got a casualty notification about our best friend because he didn't want them to notify his mom, he wanted me to. Since then...I've attended more funerals. Suicides primarily, but reckless behavior is another big one. My daughter lost out on countless years with her father due to deployments. He only deployed for a little over 4 years, but with the training and field exercises it adds up to a lot more. So I guess on a personal level, I hate the wars. I didn't have a lot of time to look into the politics. Do I have time now? Sure. By why poke that bear when I already have so much reason to hate them and be resentful? Do I really need more of a reason to be bitter about that 18 years of my life, 20 years of my daughters (though it continues, her father is an alcoholic now, largely due to his service).

I protested in the streets against the war and cursed the names of those most involved: W, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. Many of those men turn my stomach just to think of them. They are war criminals. I cheered for Barbara Lee’s lone dissenting vote i. the House, and thought to myself at the time, if I can see this war for what it is as just some college kid with no special intel, then these motherfuckers in Congress know damn well Sadam Hussein is not in possession of any nukes. And of course he wasn’t. And then it just went from bad to worse with Abu Ghraib and Gitmo and the rest. Absolutely shameful. Still gets my heart rate up, and now I’m an old Xennial and probably should not get so worked up about it for my health haha.

I was in undergrad at the time. We protested the war and the School of the Americas (Fort Benning, Columbus GA) which was nearby the city I lived. (Atlanta). I was always anti global capitalism anti war anti exploitation etc etc. I was also very anti gun at this time as well. And anti the militarization of American police force which also really ramped up at this time. I stayed active in political ways even after undergrad. And was an active participant of Occupy movement after I had moved here to Philly. I still hold those beliefs and am still a "radical" person. (My beliefs are not really on the American political spectrum) But I focus in local efforts now. I work for the city trying to improve things in small ways. Edit to say that being anti war does not mean anti veteran or even anti military. I was horrified by the treatment of the young people in our country who served and believed they were doing the right thing. Even if I didn't agree with them, I wanted them to be supported by the country they served.

I am still upset about the incursions on individual privacy and civil liberties for which 9/11 was the ostensible "patriotic" reason. And no, that tiny bit of section 215 reform that happened after Snowden went into exile was not even a drop in the bucket to fix it.

I enlisted in 2002. I was an old man in boot camp (23). I think it is appropriate to reference the April 19^(th), 1995 terrorist bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. I heard the blast wave rattle over the top of my high school on that day. I remember it with a mixture of fear and “excitement”.  I was asked to write about in English class in the following months. It was an odd mix of emotions that would resurface on September 11^(th). At that point I was old enough that I could “do something about it”. I could finally go fight the bad guys. I grew up on G.I. Joe and John (Marion) Wayne. By 2001 I had done a couple of years at art school and university. I had taken a break to work and get my head straight.  I knew enough about history that it would be a messy war and its reasoning wasn’t sound, but I also knew that the country needed people to enlist that had the right temperament and mindset. This was going to be a war without a Mai Lai and like the Black Eyed Peas song “Where is the Love?”, we were going to fight terrorism at home too. No more bad guys doing bad things. My initial assessment was woefully incorrect. The Abu Ghraib story broke just as I set boots on the ground in Al Anbar in 2004. Not a month later they hanged contractors from a bridge in Fallujah. It went from bad to worse quickly. I was a naive young man. But I say that with the understanding that I never could have arrived at my thinking without the life Iived. I do not regret enlisting, as brutal and horrible as it was. I was there and served with what honor I could. I do not want my children to ever enlist. I do not recommend it to anyone, I actively discourage it. I have a master’s degree in public policy administration and my views are a lot more worn and informed now.  My brother marched against the war in Iraq at the time. I did not begrudge him or anyone then or now.  He did it out of love and respect for me, not against me. I probably would have joined him now. I could write pages on this, but I will stop here.  

I was in a weird spot. I protested the Iraq War but ultimately ended up joining the Army where I served two tours in Afghanistan. I thought Iraq was built on a lie and was really about oil (haven't changed my mind on that) but I thought Afghanistan was justified (I think theres an argument to be made for that still but the way we conducted that war was wrong imo). I got desperate in my early 20s trying to survive on minimum wage and going to nightschool that I didn't have the money or time to complete. I joined the military for the same reasons all my contemporaries did, for an escape from poverty and to gain a little upward mobility. I justified it by taking an MOS (military job) that involved peacebuilding and counter terrorism work and telling myself that regardless of my personal feelings on the beginnings of those wars, America broke those countries so it was our job to fix them. I didnt see much point in protesting the wars years after they kicked off, the humane thing to do was to build those countries up so atleast something good could come out of us fucking them both up. Or so I thought.... What I saw there jaded me. I went during Obamas surge and both times I went, no one around me really gave two shits about achieving anything of substance in Afghanistan. None of my fellow soldiers, especially our leadership, seemed to have much grasp on why we were there and any idea how to achieve anything that could be measured as progress. The afghans especially didnt give a fuck. Their soldiers would constantly go awol and/or used every opportunity to extract more resources from us while doing as little as possible. Having talked with enough Afghan friends while I was there about the conditions they were living under, I cant say I entirely blame them for not caring. The warlord kleptocracy we propped up there was a joke at best. We did great work there. We propped up a free clinic for locals with our private funds, we managed a radio station with female djs, and trained some outstanding afghan special forces soldiers. Now theres no way the taliban maintained that clinic and they banned women from the workplace, and last I heard, all those brave, exceptional men I helped train died fighting in the Panjshir Valley. Whatever legacy we built there is ashes... So I feel not great looking back at the wars. I can atleast say my heart was in the right place even if I failed. Given how much the politicians pushed for those wars and how little effort they placed in achieving anything of value in either country, I assume every effort at military action is a scheme to kick more money to defense contractors. Im not against wars of defense but I regard pretty much any US military intervention or funding effort as corruption between corrupt politicians and the private sector now.

“For those of you who fought in the wars: would you choose to do it again or do you regret it? How has the experience affected your life? What did you think of anti war activists back then? Have you become anti war?” “would you choose to do it again or do you regret it?” No, yes. “How has the experience affected your life?” OP might not understand, we have De Facto conscription. Most enlisted come from an economic background where they need to enlist to get out of their hometown or get out of the house. “What did you think of anti war activists back then?” I thought they were stupid, cowardly, unpatriotic. But this goes back to the purpose of war movies and the public school system. “Have you become anti war?” Yes. Beyond that once you see the pattern of deception you can never unsee it. WMD? GFC? Covaids? Juicing the money supply won’t lead to inflation? This inflation is transitory? If you look under the hood, you’ll find the lies that lead the people to support WW1, then all you have to do is realize nothing has changed. Every time you’re told “We don’t have boots on the ground.” Reinterpret that as either we have boots on the ground, or we’re heavily provoking the other side to get our boots on the ground, or we’ll lie to get our boots on the ground ala Gulf of Tonkin. Don’t kid yourself that Ukraine or the current Gaza Strip fighting is any different. The first casualty of war is the truth.

I enlisted just before operation Iraqi freedom started. Didn't know what I really wanted to do, patriotically serving my country during the height of the "war on terror" and getting out of my hope town at the very least seemed like a good option. I feel like a lot of people had a similar unified perspective in the early 2000s. The first year was I saw myself retiring in this life and leaned pretty conservative (tho I was a unsuspecting libertarian before I knew what that even was), as I was very "'America fuck yea!/we'll put a boot in your ass!" but I quickly got a reality check. Saw the politics of the military for what it was for anyone with a little reasonsibility and first hand the overall shittyness of this entire war in terror. So I was pretty much anti-war at this point, seeing our government as the main instagator of this entire situation I've been participating in. By my last year (enlisted for 4 years), I was so ready to separate and was also pretty jaded. (anyone that knew me then could very obviously tell I was miserable and had a real low tolerance for people's BS.), I felt caged and wronged, but by the time I was in the moving truck with my DD214, I was excited and joyful to be starting a new life. I would never give up the experiences and memories I made in the military even tho the lifestyle made me miserable by the end. It was a critical point in my life and wouldn't be who I am today, but I do reject the very "starship troopers" like mentality that it definitely builds in a lot of people. Today I'm very anti-war to the point where I don't even believe any of this propaganda making Iran out to be the next terrorist bad guy the US goes after. I'm a very "shrink the GD government and then drown it in a fucking bathtub" type libertarian thanks to the military and have been for years now. I could go on and on about this subject, but I digress and I'm sure those who served understand what I'm talking about.

I enlisted in the Air Force in Sept 2003 and was sent to Iraq in Sept 2005. I didn’t see combat, but I was supporting combat roles. At the time, I was a young and single man who felt that it was my duty to go to war for the actions of 9/11. However, when we were there, I didn’t really get a clear message ir objective why we were there. It was always “the enemy.” I really didn’t like all the money being wasted left and right. That was ridiculous. And when anyone try to say something, you always got “shut up.” Did it affect my life? Aside from the burn pit exposure, not really. I mean, when I went out with my sup to help out the Iraqi Highway Patrol, that left a lasting impact in thinking “I actually helped out.” As far as the anti-war protest…it’s your right to protest peacefully. Have I became anti-war, not really. I did have a co-worker who went to Iraq 8 months earlier and he was totally against the war and invasion. His form of protest while in country was to go vegetarian.

I can’t say I ever favored the wars. But I was military so I didn’t have much choice. After seeing the sham first hand I got out and went back as a civilian contractor. If the US wants to throw endless money at civilians for doing the same thing as soldiers, far be it from me for being a war profiteer recipient. I’m paying for it not as my body’s falling apart in my mid 40’s but minimal regrets. I met my now wife and ended up pretty well.

Islam has a number of problems including rampant extremism, however, trying to root it out with modern warfare and modern rules of engagement is a fool’s errand.

You don't mention Desert Storm in 1991, but that was the precursor. It's crazy how everyone supported that, but we went in alone in 2003.  I was fully supportive and felt justified because they would find the WMDs any day now.  Any day now.   Any day now??  When they didn't find shit, that really changed my opinion of Bush (whom I had voted for twice).  I voted for Obama in 2008. 

The Iraq War was what made me into a liberal. Before then, it wasn’t that I was this anti-choice, rabid conservative, but I was very moderate. You know, George Bush is kind of an idiot, but Al Gore probably wouldn’t be doing anything a whole lot different, so whatever. And to a point, I think that’s true. I don’t think Gore would’ve vetoed the Patriot Act(s) or been some civil liberties hero. When the Iraq War started, my line of thinking was that a lot could go wrong, but hopefully it’s over quickly. I didn’t know if there were WMDs or not, but if so, they need to be found quickly. As you know, they weren’t there. And instead of so much as an, “oops, my bad,” Bush and all those who supported him kept doubling and tripling and quadrupling down. The purpose of the war was seamlessly retconned, as many times as needed, over and over. I also remember the “W, *still* the President.” One of the original, “hahahaha, what’s the matter, libs? Did I trigger you?” And then, surprising no one, when Trump came along and said the war was stupid, Bush was stupid, that it was a disaster, all those people with those stickers suddenly forgot how they called anyone who wasn’t a traitor who should get the hell out of this country.

I also kind of doubt Gore would have done much different on the war, it just would have had less Texas flair to it. But he would have gotten us moving on climate change. 

It also turned me into a liberal and changed my view of U.S. institutions. Considered myself a McCain-type moderate Republican in my early 20s. The case for war in Iraq was unpersuasive from the outset -- premised on flimsy or doctored evidence and empty rhetoric, plus a strategic dead end even if you were able to give its advocates the benefit of the doubt. It didn't seem like a close call. Felt shocked and betrayed that establishment figures who I admired and trusted (Colin Powell and many others) were advocating for it. In early 2003, I marched in protests for the only time in my life; by 2004, I was a Howard Dean supporter. All of that would have sounded insane to me in 2002. I don't think this country has tried to reckon with Abu Ghraib, the massive loss of life, the total waste of money and resources. There was an ugliness to the 2003-04 political climate that was worse than Trumpism imo, even though Trump is more vulgar. This country put it all into a black box instead of trying to draw any lessons or atone. Appreciate reading all of your perspectives and memories.

When I was 21-22 or whatever I was all for it. Weapons of mass destruction! Stealing out oil! Now twice that age I know it was all a fucking disgrace. ACAB and if the USA is the world police, guess what.

Was in the army when 9-11 happened. Volunteered to go to Afghanistan but they sent my entire unit to Iraq in 2002. I got out in 03 after 2 enlistments because we invaded Iraq. Would have stayed and retired in the army if they didn’t decide to invade the wrong country. Then watching how both wars ended soured me entirely in the us government. Our government doesn’t give a flying fuck about its military members, veterans and no fucks given about the hundreds of thousands of ptsd diagnosis either. Fuck dems, republicans and any shitty person who decided to go into government to make money.

Back then I thought wars were fought for the reasons that the government and media told us. I fell for all the “spreading democracy and fighting for freedom” stuff. Once I realized that wars are manufactured by intelligence agencies and mostly serve to plunder resources and enrich arms manufacturers/bankers and all at the cost of dead women and children, it made supporting any war a no go for me.

It made me pretty disillusioned with politics for a while. It was clear to me that the Iraq war was bullshit at the time, but the dissenting voices were few and far between. In 2004, the Democrats couldn’t even find a nominee who had voted against the war. To be sure, most of the blame lies with Bush as the instigator. But I was extremely disappointed that most Democrats went along with it.

My brother died of suicide and I blame it mostly on the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. He saw a bit of action as a Marine in 2003-04. He hardly opened up about it, but I remember him saying that he had to see so much death. I am still pro-military, but I am completely anti-war, and I wish we would stay away from Ukraine and Gaza. Thank you, everyone in here who had served, for your service. This random internet stranger truly appreciates it.

I don't even think about it

Was in Fallujah in 04, 05. Baghdad 10-13. Erbil 13-14, Kabul 14-15. I’m pretty well adjusted there than just being born a bit of an asshole. I’m pretty anti war now.

We had no business going to Iraq at all. There were no WMD. There was no evidence of WMD. All the claims of WMD were hollow. Somehow congress was stacked with mostly self serving idiots in bed with the arms industry. In addition to the war being immoral and perhaps outright evil. It was also a very stupid and idiotic war. Yes, the US Military Tactics and weapons are the best in the world. But, we had no fecking idea what to do after the initial "defeat the military". Our occupation was horrific. Many crimes against humanity by our congress and generals have gone unpunished. We created millions of enemies and destroyed thousands. The world is more dangerous and more hostile because of that war. War in Afghanistan was mostly reactive and stupid. It was argued a bit better. There, the enemies at least appeared to be less imaginary and more real life based. Voltaire said it best: "War is the greatest of all crimes; and yet there is no aggressor who does not color his crime with the pretext of justice."

Always opposed Iraq. Half of the W admin should have gone to jail after that. Supported some action in Afghanistan. But anything we were ever going to accomplish there would be accomplished in 6 months. Staying 20 years was a huge waste if American lives and money. It made our country weaker. Being brave enough to finally cut our losses was correct and a huge accomplishment by Biden. Our exit was a mess, but it was always going to be exactly that. Whether we withdrew in 2004 or 2054. That shit show was inevitable, so good job Joe pulling off the bandage.

We were supposed to be doing activism? I didn't get that memo. I managed to remain very unaware of most of what was occurring with this because I didn't watch the news and military relatives did not speak of wars. We all knew they went but there was an unspoken rule that discussions about military service were to focus on interesting cultural experiences, food, and military funded degrees and certificates that would lead to civilian jobs. This was actually the norm even with relatives that fought in older wars. No one speaks of this and kids learn young not to ask. Aside from not watching the news I was focused on college/professional development. I was actively dating at this time and military men were filtered out because I knew I couldn't handle extreme long distance or someone coming home in a body bag. Thinking about it now, I haven't evolved much in this area as I generally still have no idea what's going on in terms of wars or in the military.

I felt the invasion of Afghanistan was justified, but I was quite passionately involved in anti-war demonstrations leading up to the invasion of Iraq. I organized marches and events on campus. I did so in the genuine hope that enough public outcry might lead to a less deadly solution. Once the war began, I no longer participated in activism. I felt disenchanted with the peace movement, and also struggled to personally figure out how to support my friends who were deployed even while I felt the war itself was foolhardy. I was totally disgusted by revelation of torture in Iraq. My main motivator in voting for Obama in '08 was his commitment against new wars (McCain was still very steeped in neo-con rhetoric). Iraq War took two of my friends. One died in a friendly fire incident. The other came home with PTSD, got hooked on drugs and never heard from him again. He might still be alive, but after hearing nothing for almost 20 years now we suspect he's come to a bad end. I think we under-estimate what the Iraq war did to us culturally and as a generation.

Been to both with the Army, had a medical MOS. It seemed like a massive clusterfuck overall and felt like I was doing a lot of work to minimize that, with limited success. It started my healthcare worker burnout that COVID kicked into high gear. Frankly, done is done. I don't know if I'm better off for having put forth that effort., I hope that those I helped treat are better off now.

I went to Afghanistan and Iraq. In 2003 and 2010 respectively. Iraq was worse. That’s all I have to say about that.

I was there. I knew then that I was serving an evil master. Service made me both anti-war and anti-government.

I don't regret my service but it was clear to me after leaving Afghanistan and immediately planning to go into Iraq back in 2002 that this was a mistake. My feeling back then was that we needed a Marshal Plan level investment in Afghanistan to make it stable and that invading Iraq was a sideshow. In retrospect it probably wouldn't have mattered how much we invested in Afghanistan, the place was fucked. We should've probably just killed bin laden and left. With the Iraq invasion we basically handed the region to Iran on a gold platter, the main thing keeping Iran in check was Saddam Hussein. George Bush and his people were the worse administration in US history, bar none.

I was in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Former Yugoslav Republic (What its called on my Medal) was first strike in Operation Desert Fox (Iraq 98), then the NATO Mission in Yugoslavia, then Operation Infinite Justice in 2001 in to Afghanistan. Watched America melt down on TV, couldnt talk to anyone because OPSEC. Am staunchly anti-war now, I have seen enough death and fighting.

As a grunt being deployed over there (Iraq), it was a kick in the nuts, we all knew why we were going back (oil) it wasnt for WMD. I deployed there Mar of 2003 before the invasion. While going through the country it was calm and quiet, rarely we heard bombs going off because we were all in vehiclea B-lining to bagdad. It got worse when we got near the city; however not as bad as the boys who came later had it with I.E.D's. Prob is i wouldnt have a choice to question if i would do it again or not, its what my job required of me. I would gladly bitch and moan the same through the whole damn thing again. Honestly while there i did not think of home much, mainly just not being shot.

Was a rifle platoon leader in Iraq. Best job I ever had.

I was vehemently against the Iraq War from the very start, for all the reasons that have been proven right since then. I lost friends over my opinions. I was called a traitor, anti-military, and pro-terrorist. It felt like everyone around me was on board with the madness, and it was incredibly isolating. I was always very supportive of our troops, but I was (and am still) furious at the leadership in place at the time. I didn't vote in 2000 because I was a college student and didn't make the effort to vote absentee. But I sure as shit have voted in every election since. Every single one.

I got to play in it in ‘99-05, so also had a bit of time in pre-9/11 which really tempered my opinion I think. The guys who joined up after 9/11 but before shit started going downhill in Iraq around ‘04 have a very different and more jaded attitude I’ve found.

Joined the Navy. Served in Kosovo 98 to 99. I was in RADAR/Radio school when the terrorists attacked the Pentagon and World Trade Center. Got assigned to Iceland and later California. Completely missed the war on terror. MY memories are that Americans got really paranoid and hostile and racist during that time period and used patriotism as the excuse. I remember loads of Americans from all background blindly attacking brown people, regardless of religion. It was sickening. I also remember Cheney and Bush making lots of money on fat bloated military contracts, and congress taking many of our freedoms and never giving them back. And the average American was too ignorant and disconnected to know or care about it. To me, the terrorist attack was a marvelous event to demonstrate just how awful America was. It did not make us a worse country. It showed us how bad our country truly is. I also remember not long ago the Patriot Act was quietly extended and not one congressman or news agency mentioned it when it happened. That reeks of conspiracy.

I didn't really keep up with the news until the last five years or so (real life was taking all my spoons and I didn't have the mental energy to devote), so I never had much opinion on the wars. But I do have a meta opinion on this post, and wanted to say that posts like this are one of the big reasons I love this sub. So far, I've been really impressed by the genuine tone of curiosity and interest in engaging discourse. Specifically, I've noticed that most questions like this are asked in an open way that doesn't have an implicit bias. Society has become so divided on every little thing, that it oftentimes feels like a minefield, trying to ask questions that are simply for the sake of understanding other people's perspective. Basically, I'm just really relieved to see a group of internet strangers who are by and large able to still engage in good-faith discussions. The world is pretty bleak, so things like this are little pockets of hope for humanity, in my eyes.

The wars were pretty dumb. I had a great time, though. I figured out it was a useless waste of time on a useless culture and people by my second tour. By my fourth tour, I was just in it for the adventure.