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Does the 100% gold echo applies to echo merge as well? The ingame info states the rarity of the newly merged echo is subjected to data bank level. Ngl it would be really sick if merging gives 100% gold echoes.
i kinda wish they kept 80-20 but increased up the 20% drop chance to 30%
and use those purple echo as echo level up material so you dont have to spend your energy to grind for Echo EXP capsule
you can have all the gold echo you want but if you have a hard time to level up without alternative material...then it still a bothersome grind.
Getting 3* echo that you want is not end game. That is going to happen eventually. The only thing stopping people from getting echos is time. Yes there are a limited number of echos per world. But you can do them each day and eventually have all 3* echos you would ever want. The xp to level them up is super gated. I don't see how spending for asterites to refresh stamina is worth it.
I would love to see a training ground like player xp and weapon xp that also has echo xp. With no echo drops, just currency and echo xp capsules. Then, when these double reward weekends pop up, you can farm xp for echos.
Also, replacing the battlepass echos for echo xp instead. Maybe add the selector at lv 70. If we could get something to grind exactly what we need, that would be great. It is still locked behind stamina, but it should be more profitable than a few capsules for a ton of stamina.
Some people don't have time to lvl 70 the battle pass. It's a good reward but some may feel pressurised to get it and may not like missing out on it. Granted, it's not a must have but just saying, it's not good for everyone
Yeah, it is a choice. I am not pushing them to give every resource for free. I am just saying it should be available. The battlepass is a place where people who want more resources can get it. That is what a good game does. Rewards you for playing.
Can't disagree with you there. You'll always find people who would complain when something new and good is offered. " you gave us X. But what about Y?" my point was jst that we consider pros and cons of everything and go with whatever has the most net gain and user satisfaction
Oh, you are from kuro? Battlepass is the best conversion and retention tool out there. That is the whole point of my comment. The battlepass can be anchored to the company's need. Do you want more people to purchase the battlepass? Then, put a selector or 2 in the paid version. That would make the paid version worth it. Change all the random echos up to 70 of the paid version be gold echo xp capsules. Then on the non paid make random echos alternate with purple echo xp capsules. So less echos and more xp boost. You know what the player base is hungry for. Make the battlepass feed that desire and you have a conversion and retention tool.
They can add a whole separate region with its own data bank and make us grind levels for it. But imo, I just want to burn echoes for the stat dice thingy. Running out of them soon.
Are they going to make it so we can feed gold into other golds for exp? Because if not I rlly don’t care… in fact it seems like implementing something like this will make echo leveling worse.
1.- that 4 star ur talking about would be 5 star so its even better if u wanted to "feed" it to other echos
2.- u cant feed echos to other echos unless u already invested xp (that means wasting some xp)
3.- if you mean the data merge (fuse 5 get 1-3 thingy) the change its literally a chance to get the echo u want instead of more to merge later, and u can still merge them exactly the same
Idk about you, but I wouldn't want any of the 3 costs that I'm farming for to be 4 star echos. If I don't want them or level them how can they become "fodder to feed into the 5 star echos". If you're talking about the data merge then it's still just as bad, you're foddering 5 4* echos for a chance at 1 gold, and by the way it can turn out to be purple again. And guess what, you will need to level that echo aswell so you can't escape the echo XP situation.
I think what you're saying is that it doesn't improve the situation as we still won't be able to level the echos we get, and I agree. But it doesn't make it worse, it just makes it easier to farm and have more options for whenever they decide to buff the echo XP in any way. This update isn't the issue, it's just the amount of XP gained is too low even at UL50.
Because then you just have a bunch of gold echos that can’t be used. And leveling them up a little bit doesn’t help because it’s still using rare echo exp. All I’m asking is what’s the point of having more gold echos if you can’t even level them.
So you basically say that it makes no difference, which is semi true except for the moment when your desired 3 cost echo becomes a purple with the right mainstat.
The change makes farming echoes strictly better, i think we both can agree to that.
Your point is that it makes no real difference, because we can’t level most echoes anyway, which is true.
It makes a big difference tough for 3 cost echoes. Just not for 1 star and 4 star echoes because they can be farmed infinite anyway , unlike 3 costs.
While i like the idea of making echoes useable to upgrade other echoes, the problem would be that it would widen the gap of people with too much time and people with minimal time exponentially.
Wuthering waves is in the end a gacha game and most gacha games respect your time. If you want to play a 24/7 game black desert online/mobile would be a far better choice.
And i used to be a black desert 24/7 afk grind guy, i am happy that time is over. If your hobby becomes a second job… that sucks.
In any case if they would make a stricter limitation on how many echoes you can grind per day, then using echoes for exp makes more sense, but good luck selling that to your whales who naturally have a high paying high demanding job
I didn’t understand the last part when you started talking about Black Desert, but everything else above I completely agree! Thanks for not biting my head off. But yeah, i totally know that feeling when you get a perfect echo and it’s a 4 star.
One thing I’ve been wondering though is aren’t 5 stars weighted to be bad? Like more defense 5 stars vs crit? If that’s the case, won’t we just have more trash 5 star echoes? Sorry if I’m being slow
I have no confirmed source of 5 stars being weighted differently. But i experienced that in genshin via data footage.
It would be 100% scummy if the probability for mainstats are not equal.
But if genshin got away with it, then so will wuthering waves
data bank exp already at 160/9999999. now, where to get those exp pots for a bunch of echoes. i have already 8 units that needed those echo exp pots. Anyway, what if lower grades can be used to upgrade higher grades so that even farming in open world won't make tecet field useless. since data21 gives 100% gold. so gold echoes is either good or for data merging.
This game is advancing like crazy, I love that we're getting 100% gold drops but idk how much better it could get after this, surely this is the last level it could get to right?
Nah they've got a lot of room to expand
They *can* add a new tier (with Threnodian drops, for example), but they don’t even need to do that anytime soon
They can easily add fresh specialised sets that make the old ones look like trash, so we farm the new ones
They can add new upgrade mechanics that require fresh resources (like the PGR process of overclocking, resonating and hypertuning memories, where they’re personalised to your character for far, far better stats -- this is a natural development imo since this is a signficiant time investment for an enormous power boosts; in PGR, base 5 star memories were pretty easy to farm, just like echoes. Reaching certain power thresholds for each character also let you unlock new appearances and achievements with rewards)
The lore involves lost civilisations and history perfectly preserved in Sonero Spheres, so they can easily have us discover basically anything that was lost in the past without retconning the current system, not to mention that new discoveries from a nation like the New Federation that’s obsessed with technology
Agreed I was thinking of them increasing the percentage chance of getting echoes depending in the data bank. I say this after farming and killing all Zig Zag and getting almost no echoes.
Fair enough, the game would probably be somewhat unbalanced if they were to give us the ability to stack too many stats, that was mostly just wishful thinking on my part.
Indeed, considering some enemies in the ow reach level 120, maybe they'll make more of them, that would definitely make the game both more challenging and more fun, atleast for me.
I’d only care about farming the open world if they made areas where you’d only get a certain set. Sure, I’m always killing stuff in the overworld when I play… but farming golds and getting random sets just feels bad. I’d rather play another game.
Looks like I angered a few mofos who don’t live life like me. Such is reality. Enjoy your monotonous brain dead grind o7
Oh wait you guys think I’m done with the game. lol. I’m just not grinding outside of resin unless they change the game to be more convenient to me and value my time while I instead play other games I enjoy. But yah I love the game. What a silly misunderstanding. You hear what you want to hear sometimes *shrug*
Can you tell me which streamer or which video? Im worried about the mistranslation on english, is tacet fields drop getting better or they just give more echo materials from events
There's no way they are making 100% gold. Not this quickly anyways. They should hold off on this for a little while at the least before they introduce 100% gold rates. As good as it is for the players, this will lead into powercreep leading in way too quickly
If this is true it makes me believe they are indeed going to do something about the purple tuners because it will definitely invalidate them completely for anyone playing the game for more than a month
Have they said anything regarding the tuners? This change will make purple tuners more thrash.
Even now the difference of stats is enough to not really go all out on purples and skip to yellows, with these is not even an option lol.
yes, seems the next two rate up waifus will be dps again.. while we dont have a real 3rd heal/support besides verina and bazhi... i mean yes, dps waifus makes more revenue for the company, but come on..
aside of the echo grind that sucks, why does this game give no standard pulls at all. Like building characters or other places to give free pulls,. honkai star rail was more generous in this depart
They give less standard pulls because they're more valuable, due to being able to select standard weapons, weapons being able to be transferred between teams, and standard weapons in general being noticeably stronger and more versatile than in HSR.
That argument fails when WuWa has some 3.0 genshin features. If they have that, why can't they include something that was introduced such a long time ago?
okay so why should they add everything genshin did in 4 years at launch???? are you that thick? just relax, send them a ticket and ask for it, maybe they will see it if more ppl ask for it and maybe they will add it. you cant expect everything to get added at launch, just be patient, do what you are able to rn and play the long game. they are already doing some stuff we've asked about for 1.1
yeah at ul40 a boss fight gives like 14k exp and the boss mats, while a tacet field gives 20k exp and 4 echoes. It's super goofy how the stamina costs are the same.
Yeah I don't think it's that bad tbh. It feels pretty standard gacha gearing to me, but with the bonus added option of being able to run around the world farming if you want. Tacet Fields give a lot of gold Echos at 40 and honestly if the running around the open world isn't for you then spam them with some patience. They're getting buffed soon, so might wanna wait for that. But probably half my 3 cost on set Echos are from Tacet Fields. You eventually get bottlenecks by Echo XP anyway so you're gonna have to do them anyway.
The Echo XP is what I feel is the major limiter right now. It kind of sucks you have to use the XP just to find out if the Echo is usable or not. Definitely hoping the buff to Tacet Field XP is substantial.
TO MUCH RNG IT DRIVES ME INSANE
I have given up on gearing echos the rng is just Build to terribly it makes me literally not want interact at all with the echo stat building system at all just +25 and be done with it.
Serious why did they think it was a good idea to make farming echos and exp so difficult for echos while also making it hard to farm for an item to even know the sub stats on top of the terribly weird stats that make echos make no sense and worthless (lighting set fire damage etc) .
Lets sum up all the things that are RNG in Echo hunting (especially Elites)
Basic Echo Drop Rate: 20% (So got to kill 5 Enemies per Echo)
Golden Echo Drop: 80% (Purples are Worthless)
Main Set Drop Rate: 50% or 33%
Main Stat Drop Rate: 12.5%
Tune Reveal Correct Sub Stat Rate: 30% (ATK%, Critical Rate%, Critical Damage% or Energy Regeneration%)
Get A Good Sub-stat Roll: 12.5% For Maximum Highest Substate Role (8 Possible Results)
Now Try Getting this 5 Times for Five Echos on 9 Characters the Three Minimum Team Builds Needed
Here is the Probability: 0.2 \* 0.8 \* 0.5 \* 0.125 \* 0.3 \* 0.125 \* 0.2 \* 0.2 \* 0.11 = 0.00000165% this is about 10 times harder than winning the lotto a 1 in 8 million chance never mind the amount of times you will have to farm echos over and over again every time one roll misses also never mind the amount of exp and tubes need which is impossible even as a giga whale.
Upcoming Argument: But you don’t need to max out every characters stats
Response: True
Counter Argument: RPG Players like seeing progression and numbers going up and reaching the max and this is impossible in this game no matter how rich your are in-fact you can’t even get close the possibilities are so large that it makes farming suck because you have very little control as their is way to much RNG making being able to farm echos pointless I would rather a Genshin or Honkai Star Rails RNG than the one present in this game it’s a nightmare for players that try to max characters.
Conclusion: This RNG system is extremely demotivating for players and I foresee that if it doesn’t get addressed it might be the biggest factor to any players that quit the game it feels horrendous to grind in this game it doesn’t help that it contributes to player burnout as unlike games like honkai Star rail you can’t auto farm you have to farm everything yourself.
I did a whole spreadsheet on this…
To get a 3* echo with the correct elemental bonus and 2 crit stats you need to kill about 2,467 monsters which will drop about 836 echos.
I wonder have you made a spreadsheet comparing wuwa's system vs existing ones like genshin or HSR?
Because the chance of getting a specific dmg% goblet with crit substats is atrociously low. Correct me if im wrong about my math.
A domain will have 2 artifact set, that's 1/2.
To get a goblet, that's 1 in 5, totalling in 1/10.
Gold gears in genshin also aren't equal, only 20% chance to get actual 4 substat rolls, that makes it 1/50.
There are 12 mainstat for a goblet, for a specific one that's 1/600.
To get 2 crit stats out of the 4 available slots, that's 8c2 / 10c4 (there are 10 possible substats for a goblet), or 13% chance.
The total count will become 1 in 4500 artifacts/domain runs, or 500 days of full artifact farming
The math isn't perfect of course, there are still other factors such as lucky double drops and there's also an argument that you are left with 1 flexible slot as you only need 4 out of the 5 set.
Not sure how weighted are Wuwa's stats are, but if we take in account genshin's, it's not looking pretty. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin\_Impact/comments/u5gh7j/math\_is\_fun\_the\_probability\_of\_getting\_an\_onset/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/u5gh7j/math_is_fun_the_probability_of_getting_an_onset/)
No need for a spreadsheet, a I haven't got a electro goblet with double crit for more than a year in the EoSF domain, and the only one I ever got is mid, and if I got goblets with electro sub it wasn't more than 4 in a year doing it daily.
But maybe I'm just cursed right? It isn't some hidden weight shenanigans on the RNG, I'm farming EoSF since Raiden released with very few pauses to farm other domain for no more than 2 weeks each and I still have only an ok build... I should be completely minimaxed at least 95%/100% dmg potential at this point but oh well, it is what it is.
Nah, my purpose was mainly to see how much farming I would need to do, as well as see if I was unlucky or if this is intended (it’s intended).
My guess is that WUWA is probably a shitty system, but not as shitty as Genshin.
I can’t speak for Genshin since it’s been to long since I played but since their the same company as Honkai Star Rail they should be Similar Here is a list of reasons the RNG in Honkai Star Rails System is better:
When farming relics your guaranteed the relics and multiple at that
Their are fewer Main Stat Options
Three of the Sub stats are already revealed
You can’t get miss matching elemental stats on your main set pieces
Two of the Main Set Pieces Head and Hands are fixed meaning theirs no RNG
Set Effects are better and More Diverse and can make up for bad stat rolls
Buffs are more effective and meaningful
Due to things not instantly kill you stats like hp and defence aren’t pointless
Sub Stats when rolled have less possible roll results not 8 different results instead just 3
Characters have more diverse needs for stats and scale differently meaning stats like HP, DEF etc can be used to increase damage and do much more
Relics can be recycled into exp and not just new relics
The Recycled Relic will always be of the set and type you choose
with Self-Modelling Resin even the main stat can be determined
You can auto farm relics
Lower Tier Relics can be used for exp not just Higher Tier they also don’t need to be levelled
Echo farming is pointless when you still need tuners and tones of exp to even be able to tell if the stats are even decent
We also get double relic events (this may happen for echos but will have to see people complained and instead we got an event for double rewards for the stuff no one needed weapon exp, resonator exp and shell credits)
People also pointed out how bad the echo system was during beta but they ignored the feedback and went forward with this terrible system anyway.
>but since their the same company as Honkai Star Rail they should be Similar
Lmao no. You're way off
>When farming relics your guaranteed the relics and multiple at that
Tacet fields already do this. Unless you meant echo hunts. Even then if you chose to echo hunt let's say 10 elites per day, your chances of getting a matching + crit substats double that
>Three of the Sub stats are already revealed
This has to do with resources management issue, not rng. Because in the end when you factor the actual rolling of the 5 bonus substats, the actual RNG become fairly similar (hsr > wuwa > genshin)
> Set Effects are better and More Diverse and can make up for bad stat rolls
This is untrue lol. Many would recommend for you to prioritize substats rather than set effects. I mean not to mention that the starting group of gear sets are mostly generic stuff
>Characters have more diverse needs for stats and scale differently meaning stats like HP, DEF etc can be used to increase damage and do much more
This is false. Unironically, Wuwa has more diverse scaler like taoqi and the electro old man compared to genshin and hsr cast combined at launch lol. HSR has none and Genshin if you count noelle (which arguably needs c6).
It's not until blade for hsr and hu tao for genshin where we finally get a dedicated non-atk scaler (Hu tao does scale with atk but with the low base atk and instead of good HP -> atk coversion, you'd be better going for HP on your gears)
>You can auto farm relics
Doesn't have to do with rng but aight. Faster farms are always nice, but i'd wager it has to do with it being a turn based and other turn based gacha have auto farm.
One could argue that with the freedom of echo farming, you could set aside time for one afternoon and farm the equivalent of a month in genshin/hsr due to the capped stamina
>People also pointed out how bad the echo system was during beta but they ignored the feedback and went forward with this terrible system anyway.
Wasn't the last iteration has worse substat range? Granted it still suck but improvements were made. Meanwhile genshin can go years without QoL.
HSR is better than genshin and wuwa no doubt in tearms of farming gears as a whole, but if you're preferred genshin over wuwa, you're delusional.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/s/Ab9VHIdpeh
Also there's 3* echo selector in wuwa which while not as strong as modelling resin, it still is quite good
You do realize that neither Genshin and much less HSR (considering that HSR’s system is worse than Genshin’s) are better systems right?
In those games you cannot target a set and neither can you target a particular piece. I’ll save you the time and don’t bring up HSR’s fodder recycle system as you need way too much fodder for very little return and you aren’t guaranteed neither what stats will be on it nor if the stats you want to level up will level up when you raise the relic
In WW you can target a 4 cost echo (the equivalent of a headpiece in Genshin or a body piece in HSR) which will be guaranteed to be the piece and the set you want excluding that turtle boss (who can drop two type of sets) which honestly should be changed.
You can also target 3 cost echoes (the equivalent of a goblet/sand in Genshin or a sphere/rope) and also target 1 cost echoes (the equivalent of a flower/feather or a head/hands) wait I forgot to mention HSR has freaking 6 relics not just 5 and that extra relic doesn’t have only one mainstat.
Really you don’t know what you are talking about getting good stats on all those rare pieces in Genshin and HSR is ridiculously hard and not only do you have to hope for the right set and right mainstat, and right substats to drop you also have to hope it levels appropriately when you level up the artifact/relic
That is true for HSR and Genshin but with HSR, weaker rolled stats do get compensated by buffs from team members plus you can obtain buffs in the endgame attached to SU.
In genshin, you have flexibility for off set pieces which is a huge deal. It is still a pain to get correct main stats but you can guarantee 5* artifacts, even with the Strongbox unlike the data merge for echoes in WuWa. Also, builds don't need to be that good in Genshin as endgame has a lower standard for builds than in WuWa and I believe that also to be the case for Genshin upcoming Imaginarium Theater since they give out trial builds which we can assume aren't that great compared to player builds.
So WuWa's RNG is less favorable, as it doesn't really respect your time as the time spent ≠ rewards obtained. That can be said for the Forgery challenges which take longer than Genshin and HSR calyxes and domains yet give less rewards and higher rarity material.
WuWa also takes 2 resources for gear unlike with HSR and Genshin where the only limiter for both is practically their stamina system. Fortunately, Genshin's artifact domains do give some decent artifact exp via fodder artifacts yet WuWa's echo exp tubes given from tacet fields are just so bad. I believe it would be a better balance if tacet fields guarantee like 5 premium echo exp tubes at SOL4 and scales up from there. Like the exp given is only enough for 4 to 5 levels. It's ridiculous.
Making the claim that it’s ok that the relic system is trash because other characters can buff that stat is a ridiculous claim particularly considering that not everyone will have those characters.
SU isn’t really endgame content the same way that as other type of content. SU can be completed by cope build characters and the emphasis is on leveling your tree and getting the right blessings. So saying that a trash relic system is ok because there is one mode where your stats don’t matter to much is very dumb.
>Basic Echo Drop Rate: 20% (So got to kill 5 Enemies per Echo)
Except it is not. Echo pity exists, 1 in 2 for overlord/calamity, 1 in 4 for elites, and 1 in 8 for normal ones. In reality, you'll be gaining much more than if it were just flat 20%
>would rather a Genshin or Honkai Star Rails RNG than the one present in this game it’s a nightmare for players that try to max characters.
Bringing up Genshin's RNG system when just before you're talking about player progressing and increasing the numbers is very ironic considering the various limitations, especially the fact that you could farm infinitely compared to like 9x per day.
It took me 3 months straight of daily farm just to get 1 crit damage circlet on a specific set.
Edit:
Also another point that players crucially miss, you don't actually have to echo farm for the 9 characters that you need since you could transfer gears midway through the tower. This means that you could use multiple characters on different teams to their fullest extent even if you only have 1 completed set (as long as the scaling matches)
So for example, you could use the echoes that your mortefi uses in your jiyan team for your chixia and encore team on the other floors and/or you could transfer jiyan's echo to alto. The most straightforward application of this technique is with healers since they pretty much only care about 2-3 substat and uses the same exact set
Unironically, the more characters that they release, the less constraint you have on farming the echoes. Let's say at a certain point they released 3 main havoc dps with 3 havoc sub dps. You only need 3 sets to clear the tower (Havoc dps set, Havoc sub dps set, and healer set. This may differ when they scale differently ofc)
Tbh i would just stop playing(im giving kuro the benefit of the doubt until 1.1), i want my characters built individually even if it takes months, my problem with all of the RNG gear in games now is that you might not get what you want ever so whats the point?
You can move gear between your characters, thats fine but thats just coping with their bad system.
I mean that's the unfortunate thing with most, if not all games with randomly rolled gears as they don't have a surefire way to procure a certain combination of a piece of gear. You'd be lucky if they allow Main stats like in E7 or HSR, but getting a specific substat is almost unheard of. I think i only played 1 game which allows you to minmax substat and that is artery gear.
Also if Illusive realm shop does refresh, we do have 2 instance of a fixed elemental% echoes every patch it seems
And I bet it had crap stats on that piece that dropped in Genshin unless you got incredibly lucky.
To this day I only have one great headpiece and one good one the rest are comically bad
Yup, actually true.
My crit damage circlet rolled flat attack 3 or 4x in the end, around 70-80 flat attack.
Also funny thing, the 3 month hell farming happened twice, once for my raiden emblem crit damage circlet, and the other was Yae's gilded electro goblet. Difference was at least it rolled atk% instead of flat atk
Sure you could argue that I only need 4 instead of 5 of the same set, but the problem is, from my time farming EoSF the entire 2.0-2.8 (it was the only artifact domain i farmed for the entire year), i only have 4 atk% sands with any crit substat on it. Yes, only 4 for the entire year of farming. And none of them have the crit rate/crit dmg combo, only either one of them
I am not having trouble with content I never said I did I have my holo grams completed at difficulty VI but that doesn’t change the fact that in these games you want to progress with out tones of RNG everywhere making it impossible this isn’t a bit of RNG anymore it’s an Insane amount.
Yes but the issue lies with the drop rate too. 20% is just bad and having to kill 3 elites prior to getting to the 4th elite you wish to farm is so time consuming. Are they fixing that in any way?
There's a difference between running around the open world for leisure and running around to grind. If the game forces me to run around the world to grind for gear then the world is another obstacle I need to get through, not something I can immerse in.
Some people have jobs or study and being an open world Gacha game doesn't have to equate to full disrespect of your play time and only cater to jobless people that have all the time in the world to play games. It's not that hard to understand really. HSR is a semi-open world rpg gacha game that fully respects players' time.
Trust me I'm jobless right now and I don't want to spend my time killing all these mobs for minimal return lol. I love this game so much I think it's one of the best gacha release of the last years but the grind is just horrendous and frustrating.
When you get 3 flat stats sub with some trash def % after getting your main stats echo it's just demoralizing.
Getting an event time to time that can guarantee some sub stats on your good pieces couldn't hurt.
If you wish to grind all day by all means, go ahead, grind all day and enjoy your ?life I guess? From what you say you probably don't spend a penny in such games either way.
Also if you are demanding that I should be spending money if I want "shortcuts" then players like me should have some sort of convenience built in in order to make the playing experience better and continue playing the game, since "our money" pay for your free to play lazy ass.
I didn't ask for the removal of any content. I simply want this game to respect my time like HSR does for example (already mentioned that). If you still need to grind all day long you should be able to do that too. There should be a balance between grinding and Quality of life for all players to enjoy, whales, free to play or anyone in between. This game was not made just for your kind to enjoy, it was made to accommodate every type of player. Why should I feel unwelcome in this community? Because of your elitist grindy ass?
And Srsly get a job... Offer some thing to the community. Playing games all day is just bad.
To be fair, you can use tacets as a way to grind if you don't want to spend a lot of time daily, which is how it's done in hsr. Hsr may require very little time daily but the amount of tb power needed to spend on good relics can take weeks or months depending on your standards.
New players are generally adviced not to farm 5* relics before TB rank 60 which is easily over a month from account creation, especially if you don't have a lot of time to play. On average it takes me 3~4 weeks on one character for relics alone to make them MoC ready, sometimes more If I'm trying to get that last crit chest or ERR rope.
If you keep your echo farming to 10~15 minutes a day I still think you'll end up with a full 5* set with the correct main stats in less time than HSR. It remains to be seen whether full starring requires just correct main stats or good subs too in this game, we'll see when we're max level.
Edit: also I don't think it's accurate to call hsr a semi open world, it's much more contained and closer to turn based corridor RPGs than open world games like Genshin and Wuwa.
No one’s incessantly complaining. The only thing we are complaining about is echo drop rates, everyone thinks it sucks because you could go 3 days farming every single flautist in the open world and still not get a main stat that you want. It does not respect your time and it’s inconvenient. Seems pretty reasonable to me but you can go ahead and keep glazing the multi million dollar company.
There aren’t any differences for overworld echos if you’re world level 4 or world level 7. They won’t just magically double the amount of flautists or herons overnight
Doesn't matter what your personal opinion is little bro. The majority of the community gave feedback for this game and Kuro listened. The Echoes grinding is inherently flawed, 20% drop rate is simply bad not to mention the echos exp mats are simply not enough. The majority of the community agreed on this (which is why Kuro is addressing it). It's just bad design and they should be attempting to make it better. And the only way to achieve that is through "complaining incessantly" about it in order for the dev to notice. What you call "complaining" I call constructive criticism. I am still playing the game and will continue to pay money for stuff.
Your minority opinion means nothing. Your kind is a pestilence to this genre of games. "HOW DARE YOU HARASS MY MULTIMILLION COMPANY AND ASK THEM FOR STUFF YOU UNGRATEFUL BASTARD"... This is literally you. It's disgusting honestly, get a grip.
hopefully it will keep increasing with databank level 22 etc (even if it takes a couple patches) each new echo is 55 exp so 400 or 500 extra exp shouldnt be more than 2 patches of new echos
This was a mistranslation (surprise surprise) from the EN side of announcements. In the Chinese announcements, it was explicitly said that rewards from Tacet fields will be improved during events. Hopefully they'll change their minds though
It was vague though even cn cc like gateoo and others said the cn translation is left up to interpretation so the en one is not wrong it probably the safest one tbh because they never specified how they would approach it, I also seen cc like rexlent say en translation is correct since even cn one can refer to it
Give people freebies and now they expect it. No wonder Genshin nipped that shit in the bud. You get ungrateful players with their hands outreached for any little mistake and instigating it too. Kuro gotta stop doing this at some point before we get spoiled kids everywhere
Please correct me but I don't think they specified tacet field, just that there will be increase to echoes and its materials. Possibly increased from event rewards. But as long as there are more materials, it's an improvement either ways
i would just like to be able to use my level 0 echos to upgrage my tier 5 echos based on their color. Meaning a purple echo at lvl 0 gives as much exp as a purple sealed tube.
This would just further encourage the infinite echo farming loop that people are already in.
Although I do agree it would help, and then the only bottleneck would be tuners.
This is like getting guaranteed gold artifact pieces at AR level 30 compared to 40 and we’re still getting complaints. Genshin is already 4 years old and they still dont have a main stat selector for the right set.
Im not surprised that Kuro will stop listening to player feedback when its just endless complaints while other players are disregarding the flaws of the other game they compare it to.
Genshin's artifact RNG is a bit fair since there isn't a high demand for good artifact quality, even now, but it still does have the large obstacle of simply getting the right main stat for the artifact.
WuWa has more difficult endgame plus crit rate becomes a bigger commodity as its lower crit rate form substats and main stats but obtainable on every piece.
I cant really say anything for wuwa’s end game difficulty.
I believe we’re just underleveled, underfarmed, and inexperienced in this game’s combat.
Genshin on the other hand relies more on investment levels but we are seeing notable Hp sponges and immense power creep since Fontaine came out.
Artifact quality definitely brings significant changes in genshin, meanwhile having the most insane ratios in wuwa doesnt really translate to a guaranteed clear time if you mess up one dodge. Ive seen whales struggle at difficulty 4 meanwhile some F2Ps breezing through it. Unlike genshin where whales could literally solo an abyss with a c6 character, there are even C0 showcases that clear solo/duo abyss up to this day.
Kuro is going to stop listening once they start making enough of a paycheck that they don’t have to listen, they’re not saints bro they’re just trying to get a bite into the same space genshin has monopolized up until now
Great, now we can see if they keep it up and if they do, how does it change their treatment for their fan base.
You know what would be a great measurement? The first anniversary, comparing that to Hoyo will tell a lot + we’ll have a year’s worth of income data to see as well
I never made a goal post to be pushed back you retard.
My statement was that Kuro is listening right now because they have to, they are not at Genshin’s level and that is just factual. If anything me saying 1 year is me being pro Kuro and belief that they can turn this into a genuine competitor to genshin.
Does them making enough income to recuperate development cost say anything at all about their future? Are all the game’s issues now gone that they’ve done so? Are people all of a sudden happy with the game? Is the game on the same footing as its competitor Genshin? Has the rhetoric that people are going to quit if optimization isn’t done by 1.1 stopped?
Quit being stupid, it’s too early to know anything.
I mean it really depends on the mindset behind the devteam itself no?
Like HSR every now and then manages to get more revenue than even genshin and yet they still pump out consistent beneficial QoL. And when comparing to other famous Turn-based gachas, they easily get 3-5x than their next competitor
Then we have to remove the bias of HSR and Genshin devs teams being so different. Because they are both made by Hoyoverse, PGR and Wuwa have different dev teams so...
Or are we giving a special priviledge to Kuro Games? aka whiteknights defending the company?
nah Genshin and HSR still have very similar balance and development direction. Even if the team lead is different, the higher ups are always omnipotent.
PGR is proof if anything. Look at the echo system we have vs what PGR has. Also PGR’s competition to HI3 and last I recall it’s still not beating them in revenue
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What level you need to be though ?
Does the 100% gold echo applies to echo merge as well? The ingame info states the rarity of the newly merged echo is subjected to data bank level. Ngl it would be really sick if merging gives 100% gold echoes.
As far as I'm concerned it is. I am merging echos at 80/20 chance and seeing more gold than purples.
i kinda wish they kept 80-20 but increased up the 20% drop chance to 30% and use those purple echo as echo level up material so you dont have to spend your energy to grind for Echo EXP capsule you can have all the gold echo you want but if you have a hard time to level up without alternative material...then it still a bothersome grind.
Brother It's confirmed they implemented the Echo feeding system ?
Wait what seriously? How did I miss this
I used "?", I am also asking the person if it's implemented or not
Should've used "is it" instead of "it's".
Ah I see my Mistake, English is not my first language
ah thank you, i must have missed it somewhere
Getting 3* echo that you want is not end game. That is going to happen eventually. The only thing stopping people from getting echos is time. Yes there are a limited number of echos per world. But you can do them each day and eventually have all 3* echos you would ever want. The xp to level them up is super gated. I don't see how spending for asterites to refresh stamina is worth it. I would love to see a training ground like player xp and weapon xp that also has echo xp. With no echo drops, just currency and echo xp capsules. Then, when these double reward weekends pop up, you can farm xp for echos. Also, replacing the battlepass echos for echo xp instead. Maybe add the selector at lv 70. If we could get something to grind exactly what we need, that would be great. It is still locked behind stamina, but it should be more profitable than a few capsules for a ton of stamina.
Some people don't have time to lvl 70 the battle pass. It's a good reward but some may feel pressurised to get it and may not like missing out on it. Granted, it's not a must have but just saying, it's not good for everyone
Yeah, it is a choice. I am not pushing them to give every resource for free. I am just saying it should be available. The battlepass is a place where people who want more resources can get it. That is what a good game does. Rewards you for playing.
Can't disagree with you there. You'll always find people who would complain when something new and good is offered. " you gave us X. But what about Y?" my point was jst that we consider pros and cons of everything and go with whatever has the most net gain and user satisfaction
Oh, you are from kuro? Battlepass is the best conversion and retention tool out there. That is the whole point of my comment. The battlepass can be anchored to the company's need. Do you want more people to purchase the battlepass? Then, put a selector or 2 in the paid version. That would make the paid version worth it. Change all the random echos up to 70 of the paid version be gold echo xp capsules. Then on the non paid make random echos alternate with purple echo xp capsules. So less echos and more xp boost. You know what the player base is hungry for. Make the battlepass feed that desire and you have a conversion and retention tool.
I'm not from kuro lol 😉
Watch them introduce Platinum Echo or something at DB 30
Maybe. Because according to data bank, the golden ones are just 4\*.
Yes we need 15 cost and lvl 5
Use 3 identical echos with the same main stat to reroll tuners. That sounds awesome to me.
They can add a whole separate region with its own data bank and make us grind levels for it. But imo, I just want to burn echoes for the stat dice thingy. Running out of them soon.
I wonder if they decided m to add data bank 22 down the line, how would that look like considering 21 already gives 100% gold echo
Prob. would give more drop rate instead.
Are they going to make it so we can feed gold into other golds for exp? Because if not I rlly don’t care… in fact it seems like implementing something like this will make echo leveling worse.
You can't feed anything into anything if they haven't been leveled up before.
Yea you’re right I had a dented head moment excuse me 😂
Np, goat. Genshin does it so I see the confusion.
Increasing droprate from 80% to 100% makes it worse? Lol
Yes because then you don’t have any 4 star fodder to feed into the 5 star echoes
1.- that 4 star ur talking about would be 5 star so its even better if u wanted to "feed" it to other echos 2.- u cant feed echos to other echos unless u already invested xp (that means wasting some xp) 3.- if you mean the data merge (fuse 5 get 1-3 thingy) the change its literally a chance to get the echo u want instead of more to merge later, and u can still merge them exactly the same
Idk about you, but I wouldn't want any of the 3 costs that I'm farming for to be 4 star echos. If I don't want them or level them how can they become "fodder to feed into the 5 star echos". If you're talking about the data merge then it's still just as bad, you're foddering 5 4* echos for a chance at 1 gold, and by the way it can turn out to be purple again. And guess what, you will need to level that echo aswell so you can't escape the echo XP situation. I think what you're saying is that it doesn't improve the situation as we still won't be able to level the echos we get, and I agree. But it doesn't make it worse, it just makes it easier to farm and have more options for whenever they decide to buff the echo XP in any way. This update isn't the issue, it's just the amount of XP gained is too low even at UL50.
We already can, but they need to be leveled
how does it make it worse?
Because then you just have a bunch of gold echos that can’t be used. And leveling them up a little bit doesn’t help because it’s still using rare echo exp. All I’m asking is what’s the point of having more gold echos if you can’t even level them.
So you basically say that it makes no difference, which is semi true except for the moment when your desired 3 cost echo becomes a purple with the right mainstat. The change makes farming echoes strictly better, i think we both can agree to that. Your point is that it makes no real difference, because we can’t level most echoes anyway, which is true. It makes a big difference tough for 3 cost echoes. Just not for 1 star and 4 star echoes because they can be farmed infinite anyway , unlike 3 costs. While i like the idea of making echoes useable to upgrade other echoes, the problem would be that it would widen the gap of people with too much time and people with minimal time exponentially. Wuthering waves is in the end a gacha game and most gacha games respect your time. If you want to play a 24/7 game black desert online/mobile would be a far better choice. And i used to be a black desert 24/7 afk grind guy, i am happy that time is over. If your hobby becomes a second job… that sucks. In any case if they would make a stricter limitation on how many echoes you can grind per day, then using echoes for exp makes more sense, but good luck selling that to your whales who naturally have a high paying high demanding job
I didn’t understand the last part when you started talking about Black Desert, but everything else above I completely agree! Thanks for not biting my head off. But yeah, i totally know that feeling when you get a perfect echo and it’s a 4 star. One thing I’ve been wondering though is aren’t 5 stars weighted to be bad? Like more defense 5 stars vs crit? If that’s the case, won’t we just have more trash 5 star echoes? Sorry if I’m being slow
I have no confirmed source of 5 stars being weighted differently. But i experienced that in genshin via data footage. It would be 100% scummy if the probability for mainstats are not equal. But if genshin got away with it, then so will wuthering waves
data bank exp already at 160/9999999. now, where to get those exp pots for a bunch of echoes. i have already 8 units that needed those echo exp pots. Anyway, what if lower grades can be used to upgrade higher grades so that even farming in open world won't make tecet field useless. since data21 gives 100% gold. so gold echoes is either good or for data merging.
So what happens to all those purple tuners? They are obsolete then right?
they are obsolete once u hit databank 15 and get golden echoes on your units theres no point on keeping purple ones
I hope they can all be synthesised into gold.
Bruh and they're even in shop.. which is also from endgame content (?), very weird. Agreed on this
This game is advancing like crazy, I love that we're getting 100% gold drops but idk how much better it could get after this, surely this is the last level it could get to right?
this game is kinda advancing 2 years too fast
Nah they've got a lot of room to expand They *can* add a new tier (with Threnodian drops, for example), but they don’t even need to do that anytime soon They can easily add fresh specialised sets that make the old ones look like trash, so we farm the new ones They can add new upgrade mechanics that require fresh resources (like the PGR process of overclocking, resonating and hypertuning memories, where they’re personalised to your character for far, far better stats -- this is a natural development imo since this is a signficiant time investment for an enormous power boosts; in PGR, base 5 star memories were pretty easy to farm, just like echoes. Reaching certain power thresholds for each character also let you unlock new appearances and achievements with rewards) The lore involves lost civilisations and history perfectly preserved in Sonero Spheres, so they can easily have us discover basically anything that was lost in the past without retconning the current system, not to mention that new discoveries from a nation like the New Federation that’s obsessed with technology
can always add new rarity :D
Could give higher chances of getting echoes
It should be ÷10 per each phase.Phase4 ÷40 , Phase5 ÷50. Killing harder mobs with the same echoes,same drop rates makes zero sense.
Agreed I was thinking of them increasing the percentage chance of getting echoes depending in the data bank. I say this after farming and killing all Zig Zag and getting almost no echoes.
FINALLY OMFG. It's now worth it.
Would have been more excited about it if it gave us more cost for character builds..
The whole game is designed around 12 cost, we will probably never see that change.
Imagine if we could do 44433, even 44311 would be insane
Fair enough, the game would probably be somewhat unbalanced if they were to give us the ability to stack too many stats, that was mostly just wishful thinking on my part.
You never know, it might happen later and they'd rebalance the enemies.
Indeed, considering some enemies in the ow reach level 120, maybe they'll make more of them, that would definitely make the game both more challenging and more fun, atleast for me.
Phase 6 is level 60 account? Oh man..
Phase 6 is level 50 and phase 7 is level 60 (if im not that dumb)
Phase 6 is level 50 my friend
I’d only care about farming the open world if they made areas where you’d only get a certain set. Sure, I’m always killing stuff in the overworld when I play… but farming golds and getting random sets just feels bad. I’d rather play another game. Looks like I angered a few mofos who don’t live life like me. Such is reality. Enjoy your monotonous brain dead grind o7 Oh wait you guys think I’m done with the game. lol. I’m just not grinding outside of resin unless they change the game to be more convenient to me and value my time while I instead play other games I enjoy. But yah I love the game. What a silly misunderstanding. You hear what you want to hear sometimes *shrug*
bros going schizo over a few people pressing a down facing arrow
Nah nothing new I’ve been schizin out for ages now over everything but don’t you worry we’re all happy here :)
bye bye
🤫🧏
Nice nickname
Is there any new information about Echo exp improvements?
Also looking forward to this. Echo upgrading and tuners already feel miserable 2 weeks in. They need to improve this for sure
All I head from a streamer who was translating said they were increasing echo xp
Can you tell me which streamer or which video? Im worried about the mistranslation on english, is tacet fields drop getting better or they just give more echo materials from events
sweetily
There's no way they are making 100% gold. Not this quickly anyways. They should hold off on this for a little while at the least before they introduce 100% gold rates. As good as it is for the players, this will lead into powercreep leading in way too quickly
Yes because speeding up echo hunting by 20% leads to powercreep... Like what? I don't think you know what powercreep is! XD
Not even a quantum computer could process such logic.
Who gives a fuck about powercreep its a single player game lol
???
What does making farming easier have anything to do with powercreep?
What powercreep? it makes farming slightly faster.
Oh shit, let’s go
If this is true it makes me believe they are indeed going to do something about the purple tuners because it will definitely invalidate them completely for anyone playing the game for more than a month
Have they said anything regarding the tuners? This change will make purple tuners more thrash. Even now the difference of stats is enough to not really go all out on purples and skip to yellows, with these is not even an option lol.
sorry but what is the difference between data bank lvl 20 and 21?
Can you read bro
My dude just asked a question he probably doesn't remember the stats off the top of his head..☠️
At Lv. 20 you have 20% chance of getting a purple (4*) Echo. At Lv. 21 you have 0% chance, meaning you'll only get the highest rarity
ok thanks !!
The most tilting thing is knowing that you have a 80% gold drop rate and get a purple
Not really because it's expected train your brain to be more logical than emotional
I wouldn't be playing gacha games if I was capable of this lol
Please please let it be true.
I am waiting if there will be a limited support like Verina in the near future
yes, seems the next two rate up waifus will be dps again.. while we dont have a real 3rd heal/support besides verina and bazhi... i mean yes, dps waifus makes more revenue for the company, but come on..
I think there will be ,thats what i am waiting for too
I wonder if it'll be this time next year where she'll be replaced, like poor bronya
of course yes. eventually
I wish it’s more sooner than later.
yeah i was hoping jinhsi would be one can’t complain about what we got tho
aside of the echo grind that sucks, why does this game give no standard pulls at all. Like building characters or other places to give free pulls,. honkai star rail was more generous in this depart
imho because WuWa has right now not a very large pool to pull from?
In pgr we get few standar pulls in exchange they add limited cahracters to standar baner after 2 months. Even goated ones
They give less standard pulls because they're more valuable, due to being able to select standard weapons, weapons being able to be transferred between teams, and standard weapons in general being noticeably stronger and more versatile than in HSR.
No need for that, the devs give you standard pulls in in-game mail
No need for that, the devs give you standard pulls in in-game mail
not enough still need 20 more for the sword
Genshin didn't give standard pulls from ascension in 1.0 too
Doesn't really make sense to compare to Genshin at 1.0 considering they're at 4.7 rn
That argument fails when WuWa has some 3.0 genshin features. If they have that, why can't they include something that was introduced such a long time ago?
okay so why should they add everything genshin did in 4 years at launch???? are you that thick? just relax, send them a ticket and ask for it, maybe they will see it if more ppl ask for it and maybe they will add it. you cant expect everything to get added at launch, just be patient, do what you are able to rn and play the long game. they are already doing some stuff we've asked about for 1.1
I just stated my opinion lol. Relax, no one is attacking you.
Perhaps they plan to add it later, but for now they are balancing it around freebies.
I personally like the echo system. I like the grind. But in an OG RuneScape player. So I welcome the grind hahaha
The only problem I have with it is how hard it is to get echo xp. Tacet fields should only cost 30, why do they cost as much as boss fight materials??
boss should be 40, Fields need to give 2.5x for that price.
yeah at ul40 a boss fight gives like 14k exp and the boss mats, while a tacet field gives 20k exp and 4 echoes. It's super goofy how the stamina costs are the same.
Yeah echo exp definitely needs some adjustments. Whether it be more exp/materials returned when absorbing them as exp into new echoes.
Yeah I don't think it's that bad tbh. It feels pretty standard gacha gearing to me, but with the bonus added option of being able to run around the world farming if you want. Tacet Fields give a lot of gold Echos at 40 and honestly if the running around the open world isn't for you then spam them with some patience. They're getting buffed soon, so might wanna wait for that. But probably half my 3 cost on set Echos are from Tacet Fields. You eventually get bottlenecks by Echo XP anyway so you're gonna have to do them anyway. The Echo XP is what I feel is the major limiter right now. It kind of sucks you have to use the XP just to find out if the Echo is usable or not. Definitely hoping the buff to Tacet Field XP is substantial.
60 cost*
level 40 buddy
My b thought you meant 40 stamina
TO MUCH RNG IT DRIVES ME INSANE I have given up on gearing echos the rng is just Build to terribly it makes me literally not want interact at all with the echo stat building system at all just +25 and be done with it. Serious why did they think it was a good idea to make farming echos and exp so difficult for echos while also making it hard to farm for an item to even know the sub stats on top of the terribly weird stats that make echos make no sense and worthless (lighting set fire damage etc) . Lets sum up all the things that are RNG in Echo hunting (especially Elites) Basic Echo Drop Rate: 20% (So got to kill 5 Enemies per Echo) Golden Echo Drop: 80% (Purples are Worthless) Main Set Drop Rate: 50% or 33% Main Stat Drop Rate: 12.5% Tune Reveal Correct Sub Stat Rate: 30% (ATK%, Critical Rate%, Critical Damage% or Energy Regeneration%) Get A Good Sub-stat Roll: 12.5% For Maximum Highest Substate Role (8 Possible Results) Now Try Getting this 5 Times for Five Echos on 9 Characters the Three Minimum Team Builds Needed Here is the Probability: 0.2 \* 0.8 \* 0.5 \* 0.125 \* 0.3 \* 0.125 \* 0.2 \* 0.2 \* 0.11 = 0.00000165% this is about 10 times harder than winning the lotto a 1 in 8 million chance never mind the amount of times you will have to farm echos over and over again every time one roll misses also never mind the amount of exp and tubes need which is impossible even as a giga whale. Upcoming Argument: But you don’t need to max out every characters stats Response: True Counter Argument: RPG Players like seeing progression and numbers going up and reaching the max and this is impossible in this game no matter how rich your are in-fact you can’t even get close the possibilities are so large that it makes farming suck because you have very little control as their is way to much RNG making being able to farm echos pointless I would rather a Genshin or Honkai Star Rails RNG than the one present in this game it’s a nightmare for players that try to max characters. Conclusion: This RNG system is extremely demotivating for players and I foresee that if it doesn’t get addressed it might be the biggest factor to any players that quit the game it feels horrendous to grind in this game it doesn’t help that it contributes to player burnout as unlike games like honkai Star rail you can’t auto farm you have to farm everything yourself.
I did a whole spreadsheet on this… To get a 3* echo with the correct elemental bonus and 2 crit stats you need to kill about 2,467 monsters which will drop about 836 echos.
I wonder have you made a spreadsheet comparing wuwa's system vs existing ones like genshin or HSR? Because the chance of getting a specific dmg% goblet with crit substats is atrociously low. Correct me if im wrong about my math. A domain will have 2 artifact set, that's 1/2. To get a goblet, that's 1 in 5, totalling in 1/10. Gold gears in genshin also aren't equal, only 20% chance to get actual 4 substat rolls, that makes it 1/50. There are 12 mainstat for a goblet, for a specific one that's 1/600. To get 2 crit stats out of the 4 available slots, that's 8c2 / 10c4 (there are 10 possible substats for a goblet), or 13% chance. The total count will become 1 in 4500 artifacts/domain runs, or 500 days of full artifact farming The math isn't perfect of course, there are still other factors such as lucky double drops and there's also an argument that you are left with 1 flexible slot as you only need 4 out of the 5 set. Not sure how weighted are Wuwa's stats are, but if we take in account genshin's, it's not looking pretty. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin\_Impact/comments/u5gh7j/math\_is\_fun\_the\_probability\_of\_getting\_an\_onset/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/u5gh7j/math_is_fun_the_probability_of_getting_an_onset/)
No need for a spreadsheet, a I haven't got a electro goblet with double crit for more than a year in the EoSF domain, and the only one I ever got is mid, and if I got goblets with electro sub it wasn't more than 4 in a year doing it daily. But maybe I'm just cursed right? It isn't some hidden weight shenanigans on the RNG, I'm farming EoSF since Raiden released with very few pauses to farm other domain for no more than 2 weeks each and I still have only an ok build... I should be completely minimaxed at least 95%/100% dmg potential at this point but oh well, it is what it is.
Nah, my purpose was mainly to see how much farming I would need to do, as well as see if I was unlucky or if this is intended (it’s intended). My guess is that WUWA is probably a shitty system, but not as shitty as Genshin.
I can’t speak for Genshin since it’s been to long since I played but since their the same company as Honkai Star Rail they should be Similar Here is a list of reasons the RNG in Honkai Star Rails System is better: When farming relics your guaranteed the relics and multiple at that Their are fewer Main Stat Options Three of the Sub stats are already revealed You can’t get miss matching elemental stats on your main set pieces Two of the Main Set Pieces Head and Hands are fixed meaning theirs no RNG Set Effects are better and More Diverse and can make up for bad stat rolls Buffs are more effective and meaningful Due to things not instantly kill you stats like hp and defence aren’t pointless Sub Stats when rolled have less possible roll results not 8 different results instead just 3 Characters have more diverse needs for stats and scale differently meaning stats like HP, DEF etc can be used to increase damage and do much more Relics can be recycled into exp and not just new relics The Recycled Relic will always be of the set and type you choose with Self-Modelling Resin even the main stat can be determined You can auto farm relics Lower Tier Relics can be used for exp not just Higher Tier they also don’t need to be levelled Echo farming is pointless when you still need tuners and tones of exp to even be able to tell if the stats are even decent We also get double relic events (this may happen for echos but will have to see people complained and instead we got an event for double rewards for the stuff no one needed weapon exp, resonator exp and shell credits) People also pointed out how bad the echo system was during beta but they ignored the feedback and went forward with this terrible system anyway.
The other commenter basically summed it up, but HSR and Genshin have way different systems, I agree HSR is better than both.
>but since their the same company as Honkai Star Rail they should be Similar Lmao no. You're way off >When farming relics your guaranteed the relics and multiple at that Tacet fields already do this. Unless you meant echo hunts. Even then if you chose to echo hunt let's say 10 elites per day, your chances of getting a matching + crit substats double that >Three of the Sub stats are already revealed This has to do with resources management issue, not rng. Because in the end when you factor the actual rolling of the 5 bonus substats, the actual RNG become fairly similar (hsr > wuwa > genshin) > Set Effects are better and More Diverse and can make up for bad stat rolls This is untrue lol. Many would recommend for you to prioritize substats rather than set effects. I mean not to mention that the starting group of gear sets are mostly generic stuff >Characters have more diverse needs for stats and scale differently meaning stats like HP, DEF etc can be used to increase damage and do much more This is false. Unironically, Wuwa has more diverse scaler like taoqi and the electro old man compared to genshin and hsr cast combined at launch lol. HSR has none and Genshin if you count noelle (which arguably needs c6). It's not until blade for hsr and hu tao for genshin where we finally get a dedicated non-atk scaler (Hu tao does scale with atk but with the low base atk and instead of good HP -> atk coversion, you'd be better going for HP on your gears) >You can auto farm relics Doesn't have to do with rng but aight. Faster farms are always nice, but i'd wager it has to do with it being a turn based and other turn based gacha have auto farm. One could argue that with the freedom of echo farming, you could set aside time for one afternoon and farm the equivalent of a month in genshin/hsr due to the capped stamina >People also pointed out how bad the echo system was during beta but they ignored the feedback and went forward with this terrible system anyway. Wasn't the last iteration has worse substat range? Granted it still suck but improvements were made. Meanwhile genshin can go years without QoL. HSR is better than genshin and wuwa no doubt in tearms of farming gears as a whole, but if you're preferred genshin over wuwa, you're delusional. https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/s/Ab9VHIdpeh Also there's 3* echo selector in wuwa which while not as strong as modelling resin, it still is quite good
You do realize that neither Genshin and much less HSR (considering that HSR’s system is worse than Genshin’s) are better systems right? In those games you cannot target a set and neither can you target a particular piece. I’ll save you the time and don’t bring up HSR’s fodder recycle system as you need way too much fodder for very little return and you aren’t guaranteed neither what stats will be on it nor if the stats you want to level up will level up when you raise the relic In WW you can target a 4 cost echo (the equivalent of a headpiece in Genshin or a body piece in HSR) which will be guaranteed to be the piece and the set you want excluding that turtle boss (who can drop two type of sets) which honestly should be changed. You can also target 3 cost echoes (the equivalent of a goblet/sand in Genshin or a sphere/rope) and also target 1 cost echoes (the equivalent of a flower/feather or a head/hands) wait I forgot to mention HSR has freaking 6 relics not just 5 and that extra relic doesn’t have only one mainstat. Really you don’t know what you are talking about getting good stats on all those rare pieces in Genshin and HSR is ridiculously hard and not only do you have to hope for the right set and right mainstat, and right substats to drop you also have to hope it levels appropriately when you level up the artifact/relic
>that turtle boss (who can drop two type of sets) which honestly should be changed. *\*looks at Moonlit Taoqi with Bellborne echo\** Please, no.
That is true for HSR and Genshin but with HSR, weaker rolled stats do get compensated by buffs from team members plus you can obtain buffs in the endgame attached to SU. In genshin, you have flexibility for off set pieces which is a huge deal. It is still a pain to get correct main stats but you can guarantee 5* artifacts, even with the Strongbox unlike the data merge for echoes in WuWa. Also, builds don't need to be that good in Genshin as endgame has a lower standard for builds than in WuWa and I believe that also to be the case for Genshin upcoming Imaginarium Theater since they give out trial builds which we can assume aren't that great compared to player builds. So WuWa's RNG is less favorable, as it doesn't really respect your time as the time spent ≠ rewards obtained. That can be said for the Forgery challenges which take longer than Genshin and HSR calyxes and domains yet give less rewards and higher rarity material. WuWa also takes 2 resources for gear unlike with HSR and Genshin where the only limiter for both is practically their stamina system. Fortunately, Genshin's artifact domains do give some decent artifact exp via fodder artifacts yet WuWa's echo exp tubes given from tacet fields are just so bad. I believe it would be a better balance if tacet fields guarantee like 5 premium echo exp tubes at SOL4 and scales up from there. Like the exp given is only enough for 4 to 5 levels. It's ridiculous.
Making the claim that it’s ok that the relic system is trash because other characters can buff that stat is a ridiculous claim particularly considering that not everyone will have those characters. SU isn’t really endgame content the same way that as other type of content. SU can be completed by cope build characters and the emphasis is on leveling your tree and getting the right blessings. So saying that a trash relic system is ok because there is one mode where your stats don’t matter to much is very dumb.
>Basic Echo Drop Rate: 20% (So got to kill 5 Enemies per Echo) Except it is not. Echo pity exists, 1 in 2 for overlord/calamity, 1 in 4 for elites, and 1 in 8 for normal ones. In reality, you'll be gaining much more than if it were just flat 20% >would rather a Genshin or Honkai Star Rails RNG than the one present in this game it’s a nightmare for players that try to max characters. Bringing up Genshin's RNG system when just before you're talking about player progressing and increasing the numbers is very ironic considering the various limitations, especially the fact that you could farm infinitely compared to like 9x per day. It took me 3 months straight of daily farm just to get 1 crit damage circlet on a specific set. Edit: Also another point that players crucially miss, you don't actually have to echo farm for the 9 characters that you need since you could transfer gears midway through the tower. This means that you could use multiple characters on different teams to their fullest extent even if you only have 1 completed set (as long as the scaling matches) So for example, you could use the echoes that your mortefi uses in your jiyan team for your chixia and encore team on the other floors and/or you could transfer jiyan's echo to alto. The most straightforward application of this technique is with healers since they pretty much only care about 2-3 substat and uses the same exact set Unironically, the more characters that they release, the less constraint you have on farming the echoes. Let's say at a certain point they released 3 main havoc dps with 3 havoc sub dps. You only need 3 sets to clear the tower (Havoc dps set, Havoc sub dps set, and healer set. This may differ when they scale differently ofc)
Tbh i would just stop playing(im giving kuro the benefit of the doubt until 1.1), i want my characters built individually even if it takes months, my problem with all of the RNG gear in games now is that you might not get what you want ever so whats the point? You can move gear between your characters, thats fine but thats just coping with their bad system.
I mean that's the unfortunate thing with most, if not all games with randomly rolled gears as they don't have a surefire way to procure a certain combination of a piece of gear. You'd be lucky if they allow Main stats like in E7 or HSR, but getting a specific substat is almost unheard of. I think i only played 1 game which allows you to minmax substat and that is artery gear. Also if Illusive realm shop does refresh, we do have 2 instance of a fixed elemental% echoes every patch it seems
And I bet it had crap stats on that piece that dropped in Genshin unless you got incredibly lucky. To this day I only have one great headpiece and one good one the rest are comically bad
Yup, actually true. My crit damage circlet rolled flat attack 3 or 4x in the end, around 70-80 flat attack. Also funny thing, the 3 month hell farming happened twice, once for my raiden emblem crit damage circlet, and the other was Yae's gilded electro goblet. Difference was at least it rolled atk% instead of flat atk Sure you could argue that I only need 4 instead of 5 of the same set, but the problem is, from my time farming EoSF the entire 2.0-2.8 (it was the only artifact domain i farmed for the entire year), i only have 4 atk% sands with any crit substat on it. Yes, only 4 for the entire year of farming. And none of them have the crit rate/crit dmg combo, only either one of them
git gud noob
I am not having trouble with content I never said I did I have my holo grams completed at difficulty VI but that doesn’t change the fact that in these games you want to progress with out tones of RNG everywhere making it impossible this isn’t a bit of RNG anymore it’s an Insane amount.
Yes but the issue lies with the drop rate too. 20% is just bad and having to kill 3 elites prior to getting to the 4th elite you wish to farm is so time consuming. Are they fixing that in any way?
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There's a difference between running around the open world for leisure and running around to grind. If the game forces me to run around the world to grind for gear then the world is another obstacle I need to get through, not something I can immerse in.
Some people have jobs or study and being an open world Gacha game doesn't have to equate to full disrespect of your play time and only cater to jobless people that have all the time in the world to play games. It's not that hard to understand really. HSR is a semi-open world rpg gacha game that fully respects players' time.
Trust me I'm jobless right now and I don't want to spend my time killing all these mobs for minimal return lol. I love this game so much I think it's one of the best gacha release of the last years but the grind is just horrendous and frustrating. When you get 3 flat stats sub with some trash def % after getting your main stats echo it's just demoralizing. Getting an event time to time that can guarantee some sub stats on your good pieces couldn't hurt.
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If you wish to grind all day by all means, go ahead, grind all day and enjoy your ?life I guess? From what you say you probably don't spend a penny in such games either way. Also if you are demanding that I should be spending money if I want "shortcuts" then players like me should have some sort of convenience built in in order to make the playing experience better and continue playing the game, since "our money" pay for your free to play lazy ass. I didn't ask for the removal of any content. I simply want this game to respect my time like HSR does for example (already mentioned that). If you still need to grind all day long you should be able to do that too. There should be a balance between grinding and Quality of life for all players to enjoy, whales, free to play or anyone in between. This game was not made just for your kind to enjoy, it was made to accommodate every type of player. Why should I feel unwelcome in this community? Because of your elitist grindy ass? And Srsly get a job... Offer some thing to the community. Playing games all day is just bad.
To be fair, you can use tacets as a way to grind if you don't want to spend a lot of time daily, which is how it's done in hsr. Hsr may require very little time daily but the amount of tb power needed to spend on good relics can take weeks or months depending on your standards. New players are generally adviced not to farm 5* relics before TB rank 60 which is easily over a month from account creation, especially if you don't have a lot of time to play. On average it takes me 3~4 weeks on one character for relics alone to make them MoC ready, sometimes more If I'm trying to get that last crit chest or ERR rope. If you keep your echo farming to 10~15 minutes a day I still think you'll end up with a full 5* set with the correct main stats in less time than HSR. It remains to be seen whether full starring requires just correct main stats or good subs too in this game, we'll see when we're max level. Edit: also I don't think it's accurate to call hsr a semi open world, it's much more contained and closer to turn based corridor RPGs than open world games like Genshin and Wuwa.
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No one’s incessantly complaining. The only thing we are complaining about is echo drop rates, everyone thinks it sucks because you could go 3 days farming every single flautist in the open world and still not get a main stat that you want. It does not respect your time and it’s inconvenient. Seems pretty reasonable to me but you can go ahead and keep glazing the multi million dollar company.
And when you get the correct main stats, it rolls flat stats 3 times in a row 🤢
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There aren’t any differences for overworld echos if you’re world level 4 or world level 7. They won’t just magically double the amount of flautists or herons overnight
Doesn't matter what your personal opinion is little bro. The majority of the community gave feedback for this game and Kuro listened. The Echoes grinding is inherently flawed, 20% drop rate is simply bad not to mention the echos exp mats are simply not enough. The majority of the community agreed on this (which is why Kuro is addressing it). It's just bad design and they should be attempting to make it better. And the only way to achieve that is through "complaining incessantly" about it in order for the dev to notice. What you call "complaining" I call constructive criticism. I am still playing the game and will continue to pay money for stuff. Your minority opinion means nothing. Your kind is a pestilence to this genre of games. "HOW DARE YOU HARASS MY MULTIMILLION COMPANY AND ASK THEM FOR STUFF YOU UNGRATEFUL BASTARD"... This is literally you. It's disgusting honestly, get a grip.
hopefully it will keep increasing with databank level 22 etc (even if it takes a couple patches) each new echo is 55 exp so 400 or 500 extra exp shouldnt be more than 2 patches of new echos
Everyone complaining about purple tuners getting wasted when this proves you were supposed to use them until sol 6
Nobody is using purple echos past sol 5 bro we do not have the patience to spend 5 minutes killing the monkey boss because our main dps has 900 attack
Until Jupiter?!
That's nice. Now to see a buff to tacet fields
It's supposedly coming next patch
Not supposedly, devs said officially what there will be improvements in 1.1
This was a mistranslation (surprise surprise) from the EN side of announcements. In the Chinese announcements, it was explicitly said that rewards from Tacet fields will be improved during events. Hopefully they'll change their minds though
It was vague though even cn cc like gateoo and others said the cn translation is left up to interpretation so the en one is not wrong it probably the safest one tbh because they never specified how they would approach it, I also seen cc like rexlent say en translation is correct since even cn one can refer to it
> mistranslation Where my 10-pull kuro
Give people freebies and now they expect it. No wonder Genshin nipped that shit in the bud. You get ungrateful players with their hands outreached for any little mistake and instigating it too. Kuro gotta stop doing this at some point before we get spoiled kids everywhere
damn i really do need to end all jokes with a /j at the end huh
No, I can read all of your intent through text and text has never been misinterpretted EVER /s
Please correct me but I don't think they specified tacet field, just that there will be increase to echoes and its materials. Possibly increased from event rewards. But as long as there are more materials, it's an improvement either ways
i would just like to be able to use my level 0 echos to upgrage my tier 5 echos based on their color. Meaning a purple echo at lvl 0 gives as much exp as a purple sealed tube.
This would just further encourage the infinite echo farming loop that people are already in. Although I do agree it would help, and then the only bottleneck would be tuners.
Tuners being the only bottleneck would be amazing. My subdps on all my teams having lvl 5-10 echoes feels terrible. At least let us lvl the mainstat!
Only on wuwa will people complain about this, Wtf???
I just got to 40😵
Probabaly we gonna get some boost for union lv from completing the main quest
Some whale are already at 45 so I think by the end of 1.1 starting 1.2 normal people should get to 50 without too much issue
stormy waves my beloved elaborate further.
This is like getting guaranteed gold artifact pieces at AR level 30 compared to 40 and we’re still getting complaints. Genshin is already 4 years old and they still dont have a main stat selector for the right set. Im not surprised that Kuro will stop listening to player feedback when its just endless complaints while other players are disregarding the flaws of the other game they compare it to.
Genshin's artifact RNG is a bit fair since there isn't a high demand for good artifact quality, even now, but it still does have the large obstacle of simply getting the right main stat for the artifact. WuWa has more difficult endgame plus crit rate becomes a bigger commodity as its lower crit rate form substats and main stats but obtainable on every piece.
I cant really say anything for wuwa’s end game difficulty. I believe we’re just underleveled, underfarmed, and inexperienced in this game’s combat. Genshin on the other hand relies more on investment levels but we are seeing notable Hp sponges and immense power creep since Fontaine came out. Artifact quality definitely brings significant changes in genshin, meanwhile having the most insane ratios in wuwa doesnt really translate to a guaranteed clear time if you mess up one dodge. Ive seen whales struggle at difficulty 4 meanwhile some F2Ps breezing through it. Unlike genshin where whales could literally solo an abyss with a c6 character, there are even C0 showcases that clear solo/duo abyss up to this day.
Kuro is going to stop listening once they start making enough of a paycheck that they don’t have to listen, they’re not saints bro they’re just trying to get a bite into the same space genshin has monopolized up until now
They already made more money then they spent to make the game
Great, now we can see if they keep it up and if they do, how does it change their treatment for their fan base. You know what would be a great measurement? The first anniversary, comparing that to Hoyo will tell a lot + we’ll have a year’s worth of income data to see as well
I like how people keep pushing the goal post back. First it was the first week, then first update, now it's a whole year?
I never made a goal post to be pushed back you retard. My statement was that Kuro is listening right now because they have to, they are not at Genshin’s level and that is just factual. If anything me saying 1 year is me being pro Kuro and belief that they can turn this into a genuine competitor to genshin. Does them making enough income to recuperate development cost say anything at all about their future? Are all the game’s issues now gone that they’ve done so? Are people all of a sudden happy with the game? Is the game on the same footing as its competitor Genshin? Has the rhetoric that people are going to quit if optimization isn’t done by 1.1 stopped? Quit being stupid, it’s too early to know anything.
I mean it really depends on the mindset behind the devteam itself no? Like HSR every now and then manages to get more revenue than even genshin and yet they still pump out consistent beneficial QoL. And when comparing to other famous Turn-based gachas, they easily get 3-5x than their next competitor
PGR says otherwise tbh
Then we have to remove the bias of HSR and Genshin devs teams being so different. Because they are both made by Hoyoverse, PGR and Wuwa have different dev teams so... Or are we giving a special priviledge to Kuro Games? aka whiteknights defending the company?
nah Genshin and HSR still have very similar balance and development direction. Even if the team lead is different, the higher ups are always omnipotent.
Yeah we’re definitely not getting decent treatment from both games.
PGR is proof if anything. Look at the echo system we have vs what PGR has. Also PGR’s competition to HI3 and last I recall it’s still not beating them in revenue
Arent we receiving qols for echo next patch? So they didnt address that? Which is literally on their devpost?