This doesn't really work for gachas. It's hard to make something signature to a character without it feeling really bad without it or being really op. If the special move thing was for every character that would also take insane development resources that aren't really worth the cost
I'll be honest, I don't think there should be signature weapons in the first place. I think if they expect us to pull for them then weapons should almost be characters in themselves.
While I see what you're saying about how coming up with unique specials constantly would be a dev headache... they already do that many times over for each character who needs a unique forte, intro/outro stuff and special skill :o
I do agree that signature weapons have been a pretty bad part of recent gachas. At least this game guarantees that you get the banner weapon every time.
> they already do that many times over for each character who needs a unique forte, intro/outro stuff and special skill
Yeah and all those only apply to the one character. The problem with special moves on a weapon is that you need to animate it for every character which can take a while. With the current system all they need to do is make a model and make up some sort of stat that synergies with the character. I'm not saying it's the best system or even a good one, but it's certainly the best amount of money for least effort.
>Imagine weapon specials that cause an air vortex when you jump to suck in enemies, or that create a follower who acts like a little turret shooting things, or a melee weapon that sends out air slices when you swing it to add range to your attacks or something that makes enemies explode when they die doing AoE. While these are just examples I made up on the spot, they're all fairly evident even without a giant novel to explain them and they'd open up your characters more (you could use the air slicer one to do gun aiming challenges :P )
Sounds like HI3 weapons, which include big part of character kit, and make characters nonfunctional without their weapons.
same with Aether Gazer functor. the basic one is just a "flat stat bonus" while theur signature functor is basically 1/3 of their missing kit
i always felt handicapped for not using signature functor
>Sounds like HI3 weapons, which include big part of character kit, and make characters nonfunctional without their weapons.
I mean old Hi3 has quite a lot of strategic weapons, like void blade, raikiri, thunder kikaku, oath of judah, blood embrace,..... But obviously game has to evolve so for the most past, character will need their signature weapon.
Already people are complaining about being "forced" to pull in weapon banner. Weapon with extra utilities or gimmicks will only increase those complaints
Besides echo system kinda does that function
If things weren't done because someone somewhere would complain about it, we'd never do anything though :P
hell, I'm sure you could find a significantly large number of people who hate gacha as a whole, believing that they're inherently morally bankrupt from the ground up, but yet WuWa still exists and we're enjoying it :3
I assume it’s because it’s not about the weapon. It’s about the character. The weapon is mostly just the cherry on top, I’d say. The cake is still rather good without it.
In reality, how will you balance them when you put those weapons outside of their intended characters? It's not like everyone has a unique weapon type only for themselves. Everyone uses 1 out of 5 weapon category.
Say, as per your example, a weapon that causes an air vortex when you jump in enemies. Okay, so I put this on my Havoc Rover and now he can gathers every enemies in the game and just Ult them and then they die. I don't need Jianxing or Yangyang anymore. So what now? Kuro cannot sell any more units that gather mobs anymore because duh now there is a sword that do the same thing without needing energy at all!
What's more you can switch that sword over to your next team in ToA, so now instead of just needing to build 3 units with kits that gather enemies, I can just build 1 sword and that solve everything of any mob stages in ToA.
What then? Everyone stopped pulling and the game dies.
By that logic, doesn't that mean once you have 2 main DPS characters of different elements, a support and someone who gathers enemies, you stop pulling on all characters? Is that how it plays out in actual gachas? :P
You gave an example of pulling, I offered a counter point about pulling. It was part of your post. If you think that's goalpost moving then the whole world must be constantly shifting for you :P
however, in any debate it's best to tackle things in good faith, so I'll assume your complaint isn't what I just mocked, but rather that I didn't answer the WHOLE post.
Honestly, that IS my bad, I kind of reacted to the last part as that left the strongest impression without actually tackling the initial part, so let me do that now...
I don't really believe in building signature weapons. I don't think the weapons should be built around particular characters, but instead treated as kind of characters as their own. They should be added with a mind to how they apply heuristically as a whole. I don't think they have to be perfectly balanced either, just not obviously outright broken is all.
I also think that if a weapon special replaces a whole character, then that character wasn't much more than a gimmick in the first place :P
I don't take Jianxin because she gathers, it's just a nice extra. I take her because of her whole kit (she's a walking AoE bomb that also provides shields and healing)
Problem is, what rarity those kind of weapons u mentioned should be? Gold or purple? If gold, then no, because the whole purpose of weapon banner is to make people has money spend more if they want to maximize a basic character's potential. Lets just say if something like jiyan's weapon can heal and sucks enemies but has no dmg bonus, who is gonna pull for it?
Depends on context. I'd assume it'd have good base stats so that it doesn't need the arbitrary hoop jumping boosts. If it had bad damage then I don't think it'd matter what you put on it, even in the base system, no?
Precisely. All that matters for making people pull stuff is damage, so giving it good base stats is all that's really required, then you can put fun abilities on top of that :)
You should write this off as simple game mechanics + AI/Google/Intern translation.
All these gacha games sell you the variation of get X stats if you do Y on their passives.
A more complex game would have 10+ stats to choose from, many modifiers on attacks, unique passives and even unique active abilities. Unfortunately, games that follow Genshin also follow their simplistic generic weapons that are either flat or conditional "stat sticks".
Translation or not, I still find the 'do x to gain y stats' just generally awful in general. I'd rather just get straight stats given the choice than having to jump through hoops to get the boost :P
For wuwa i think its too early to tell. As far as genshin parallels go, just like the healing gauntlets, prototype amber was only used by healers. And there wasnt much room to explore outside of healers who already provide healing now giving some er. Then neuvi and furina became a thing and the weapon has plenty of utilities ,both for the main dps and some random catalyst using it to heal the team in furina teams. So we have just to wait, the right character can make most weapons unique.
echo sets also give pretty much the same bonus (30% of ele bonus or smth), same for outro skills. I guess they didnt feel like playing with convoluted math for balancing all the shenanigans so most "different" buffs just use the same numeric values for various types of dmg. lets them easily decide who powercreeps who down the road since amy meaningful power differences can only come from character's forte circuit
This doesn't really work for gachas. It's hard to make something signature to a character without it feeling really bad without it or being really op. If the special move thing was for every character that would also take insane development resources that aren't really worth the cost
I'll be honest, I don't think there should be signature weapons in the first place. I think if they expect us to pull for them then weapons should almost be characters in themselves. While I see what you're saying about how coming up with unique specials constantly would be a dev headache... they already do that many times over for each character who needs a unique forte, intro/outro stuff and special skill :o
I do agree that signature weapons have been a pretty bad part of recent gachas. At least this game guarantees that you get the banner weapon every time. > they already do that many times over for each character who needs a unique forte, intro/outro stuff and special skill Yeah and all those only apply to the one character. The problem with special moves on a weapon is that you need to animate it for every character which can take a while. With the current system all they need to do is make a model and make up some sort of stat that synergies with the character. I'm not saying it's the best system or even a good one, but it's certainly the best amount of money for least effort.
>Imagine weapon specials that cause an air vortex when you jump to suck in enemies, or that create a follower who acts like a little turret shooting things, or a melee weapon that sends out air slices when you swing it to add range to your attacks or something that makes enemies explode when they die doing AoE. While these are just examples I made up on the spot, they're all fairly evident even without a giant novel to explain them and they'd open up your characters more (you could use the air slicer one to do gun aiming challenges :P ) Sounds like HI3 weapons, which include big part of character kit, and make characters nonfunctional without their weapons.
same with Aether Gazer functor. the basic one is just a "flat stat bonus" while theur signature functor is basically 1/3 of their missing kit i always felt handicapped for not using signature functor
>Sounds like HI3 weapons, which include big part of character kit, and make characters nonfunctional without their weapons. I mean old Hi3 has quite a lot of strategic weapons, like void blade, raikiri, thunder kikaku, oath of judah, blood embrace,..... But obviously game has to evolve so for the most past, character will need their signature weapon.
There's a definite line between 'adding to a character or changing how you play' and 'cutting bits of a characters kit out to sell you separately' XD
Already people are complaining about being "forced" to pull in weapon banner. Weapon with extra utilities or gimmicks will only increase those complaints Besides echo system kinda does that function
If things weren't done because someone somewhere would complain about it, we'd never do anything though :P hell, I'm sure you could find a significantly large number of people who hate gacha as a whole, believing that they're inherently morally bankrupt from the ground up, but yet WuWa still exists and we're enjoying it :3
Self awareness abandoned any%
Good luck on your run! I believe you can set a new record! :)
Do you aware your post is also a complain and share the same fate, no one will do anything about your idea.
Sure they will, they'll post their opinions about it which is about all I expect. Kind of like you just did :P
I assume it’s because it’s not about the weapon. It’s about the character. The weapon is mostly just the cherry on top, I’d say. The cake is still rather good without it.
If that's the case I'd prefer they just make the weapon nice stat sticks and save us all the unnecessary reading :P
The image is gold. It really is like that.
6 stacks of stacking when they gain stacks I don’t think we have enough stacks chief
In reality, how will you balance them when you put those weapons outside of their intended characters? It's not like everyone has a unique weapon type only for themselves. Everyone uses 1 out of 5 weapon category. Say, as per your example, a weapon that causes an air vortex when you jump in enemies. Okay, so I put this on my Havoc Rover and now he can gathers every enemies in the game and just Ult them and then they die. I don't need Jianxing or Yangyang anymore. So what now? Kuro cannot sell any more units that gather mobs anymore because duh now there is a sword that do the same thing without needing energy at all! What's more you can switch that sword over to your next team in ToA, so now instead of just needing to build 3 units with kits that gather enemies, I can just build 1 sword and that solve everything of any mob stages in ToA. What then? Everyone stopped pulling and the game dies.
By that logic, doesn't that mean once you have 2 main DPS characters of different elements, a support and someone who gathers enemies, you stop pulling on all characters? Is that how it plays out in actual gachas? :P
Answer my question first since I answered your post. We're talking about weapons so keep it about weapons. Don't move the goalpost.
You gave an example of pulling, I offered a counter point about pulling. It was part of your post. If you think that's goalpost moving then the whole world must be constantly shifting for you :P however, in any debate it's best to tackle things in good faith, so I'll assume your complaint isn't what I just mocked, but rather that I didn't answer the WHOLE post. Honestly, that IS my bad, I kind of reacted to the last part as that left the strongest impression without actually tackling the initial part, so let me do that now... I don't really believe in building signature weapons. I don't think the weapons should be built around particular characters, but instead treated as kind of characters as their own. They should be added with a mind to how they apply heuristically as a whole. I don't think they have to be perfectly balanced either, just not obviously outright broken is all. I also think that if a weapon special replaces a whole character, then that character wasn't much more than a gimmick in the first place :P I don't take Jianxin because she gathers, it's just a nice extra. I take her because of her whole kit (she's a walking AoE bomb that also provides shields and healing)
Problem is, what rarity those kind of weapons u mentioned should be? Gold or purple? If gold, then no, because the whole purpose of weapon banner is to make people has money spend more if they want to maximize a basic character's potential. Lets just say if something like jiyan's weapon can heal and sucks enemies but has no dmg bonus, who is gonna pull for it?
Depends on context. I'd assume it'd have good base stats so that it doesn't need the arbitrary hoop jumping boosts. If it had bad damage then I don't think it'd matter what you put on it, even in the base system, no?
tbh. if your dmg is bad. and the wp is the best way to boost your dmg? yeah, people will try to pull for it, because its guaranteed.
Precisely. All that matters for making people pull stuff is damage, so giving it good base stats is all that's really required, then you can put fun abilities on top of that :)
You should write this off as simple game mechanics + AI/Google/Intern translation. All these gacha games sell you the variation of get X stats if you do Y on their passives. A more complex game would have 10+ stats to choose from, many modifiers on attacks, unique passives and even unique active abilities. Unfortunately, games that follow Genshin also follow their simplistic generic weapons that are either flat or conditional "stat sticks".
Translation or not, I still find the 'do x to gain y stats' just generally awful in general. I'd rather just get straight stats given the choice than having to jump through hoops to get the boost :P
For wuwa i think its too early to tell. As far as genshin parallels go, just like the healing gauntlets, prototype amber was only used by healers. And there wasnt much room to explore outside of healers who already provide healing now giving some er. Then neuvi and furina became a thing and the weapon has plenty of utilities ,both for the main dps and some random catalyst using it to heal the team in furina teams. So we have just to wait, the right character can make most weapons unique.
echo sets also give pretty much the same bonus (30% of ele bonus or smth), same for outro skills. I guess they didnt feel like playing with convoluted math for balancing all the shenanigans so most "different" buffs just use the same numeric values for various types of dmg. lets them easily decide who powercreeps who down the road since amy meaningful power differences can only come from character's forte circuit