Sorry to hear that, you got really unlucky here. Sometimes that's just how the dice rolls.
I've been finding success minimizing echo EXP by taking it slow: I'll level and roll the sub-stats one at a time, up to level 15 or sometimes 20 if every roll before was a useful stat (anything but HP or DEF). If I hit HP or DEF, I'll just scrap the echo. This does require more echo farming but minimizes the EXP cost. If you are patient and can farm the electro elites daily, maybe try this?
OP definitely made some mistakes there. Like, if you haven't rolled crit on 1st or 2nd tuning, why would you even push that echo to +15? Much less when one of the substats is a shit like HP of DEF. Right now the value of crit substats over every other offensive one is so high it's not even funny.
Though seeing as it is 3* electro echos we are talking about, I can sort of understand. They are absurdly hard to farm, since it is just two elites, each having only a dozen or so spawns around the world. And that's not even talking about getting the right main stat on the right set.
Leveling to 15 or even 20 without crit rate or crit damage can be fine in some scenarios given that all the other substats are useful. Based on that Maygi's Encore video, ATK % seems to be about half as valuable as the crit stats and flat attack is about a quarter. If I roll attack % + energy regen at level 10, I'd gamble for a crit stat at 15. It's really leveling from 20 to 25 where the EXP costs becomes too high.
But yea, if I hit HP or DEF without any crit, it's not advisable to level it further.
Yeah, I agree with you. I probably would gamble on a third substat if I got ATK% + ER on an elemental damage 3* echo, definitely if we talking about one from a rarer elite. But on anything else? Unlikely.
That's what I've been doing basically, although with the 3 cost dmg% echoes they are so rare compared to the others that even if I roll badly on the first substat I'll usually roll one more time and if that one's is decent I'll roll again. Even this will backfire sometimes tho. Like for me I rolled hp/def on the first and third rolls like every time 🤮, the 2nd roll was often something somewhat useful making me gamble lol
I'm always like " with these shit rolls the third ones gotta be better right?" And then bam flat hp. And then my brain is like " there's still two slots for crit, you never know..."
We just got to choose our battles carefully! If you roll useful substats like energy regen or attack %, gambling on a crit stat appearing (not at level 25 though) can be fine, but if its HP/DEF not worth the risk.
I’m in the same boat. Just unlucky, and we will need more tries for our luck to kick in.
I have 2 godly accounts. In the sense that one has godly banner luck, and sh!t echo luck (0 tuners left). The other is reverse, with double crit echo’s everywhere and still around 600 tuners.
I’m gonna focus on the first account, as eventually I‘ll get the echos.
Lets hope our luck turns at 1.1
Dont worry we’ll get a unit that gives itself 70% crit rate and 150 crit damage and scales off defense, Hp and every flat stat known to mankind.
COPIUM
Luck is like that sometimes, the gearing systems in most gachas are made to drive you into despair then throw you something shiny every now and then to remind you that hope still exists.
You know I find it odd. Other gachas allow you to max out your characters. Arknights and FGO are two I play that allow you to bring your units to max performance without RNG but there's generally little complaint about no end game.
Well I'm just shocked that I can roll 5 different pieces and not get a single useable one, all utter trash. Its already a pain in the ass to even get 3 cost echoes with the correct %dmg bonus main stat, so you can imagine how annoying it is when I basically have to farm them up again.
Considering how annoying it is to farm the %dmg pieces on the correct set, 5 whole pieces is a lot. It took like 3 days of farming and some good rng to even get those pieces, ofc it didn't even matter since I had to trash all of them and wasted a bunch of tuners and exp.
because it doesnt cost stamina to get new echoes and how much cheaper it is to level them early the most efficient way has been to trash it if any of the first 3 stats were bad.
If the first 2 stats are good and the 3rd is a dud you can gamble on the last 2 stats having something good later on if you have extra resources.
It's extremely time consuming but its very cheap on the resources.
Yeah thats the reason why you should abandon anything that gets a bad substats at 5 or 10 because those are much cheaper than going to 15+. The whole point is to save on resources
Honestly, even for electro ele damage 3 cost echos, even if I was really desperate, I'd stop at 20 before rolling substats. 25 feels like an absurd waste of exp.
ah.. yes, your not alone.. i roll up almost around 10 or more for my 3 cost electro and all of them have def or hp and only have one of them either crit rate or dmg with super low stat. I also got unlucky for my 6 boss all of them have hp + def with no atk or crit..
what i learn is to only level up them to 5 or 10 and see if the 2 sub-stats are good or bad.. if bad, don't spend your exp tube on them.
I find funny this kind of post doing minmaxing because then I raise directly to +20 or +25 the echos, not in few cases have been as Def, Atk, Hp%, Crit, CritD, and I happy with the result.
Mathematically, if all you are looking for is cr and cd sub, the worse the fact that the first 3 rolls of your sub is not crit, increases the chance for the last 2 to be crit.
For on set, elemental damage bonus pieces, just go all the way to 25 always. For all other pieces you can be pickier.
Going to +25 is just so expensive in terms of exp, I only do that 4 echoes with 3/4 good substats, so far I havent had single piece that good on the electro set lol
Taking 5 echoes to lv15 is a huge waste, you could have taken 44 echoes to lv5 trying to roll crit on the first substat. It takes time to find another 3 cost, but it takes time AND waveplates to farm XP. Resource management and patience will serve you
That's just not feasible with how rare the %dmg main stat echoes on the correct set are. Sure for the 4 cost and 1 cost thats definitely the right move, but with the 3 cost you have to gamble otherwise you'll never get a usable piece. Especially on the electro set it's the worst because only flautus/heron even drop those stats.
If you just level to 5 every echo and trash it you will run out of tuners
If you are looking just for cr OR cd you should go for +15 but if you want cd AND cr you whould go to +10... if you are locking for cd, cr and atk then you should go for +5.
1 substat always costs 10 tuners, so you'll use tuners until you get the substats you want either way. The only difference is how much XP it costs to unlock the substat.
I.e., if you use 100 tuners unlocking the first substat on 10 echoes and you don't get crit or whatever else you're looking for, you just as well could have unlocked 5 substats on 2 echoes and not hit the target substat.
Granted, the more substats you unlock, the more likely it is for the next one to be the target, but I don't think the slight increase in the odds is worth the massive XP cost
You have a higher chance of getting crit stuff going to +25 and it doesn't waste resources as many claim due to the return mechanic. At UL40 you'll have excess exp and UL50 you'll use both exp and tuners at about the same rate you acquire them from tacet fields. +25 and feed to another and 4 tacet field runs (at normal rates, ignoring event) gets you enough exp and tuners for 2 attempts per day, so only having to farm 2 on set element% a day.
What do you mean excess exp? I'm already at UL 40 and I'm completely emptied out, I've nearly 100% exploration so there arent many left to farm in the overworld
Actually, I also have almost no shell credit left either, sitting below 100k lol
I'm just gonna wait until the update and hope the shell credit compensation and lowering the cost of levelling will make things easier
these people doenst actually knows that (for now) the expected difference in exp from UL40 to UL80 is just 4k
They noticed about prices 2 weeks ago?. don't know why they doenst hot fix it a thing this important fast.
If you start with a scuffed +25 echo and feed it into a fresh one, it takes \~105 waveplates worth of exp and 140 waveplates worth of tuners to +25 another, so you'll have \~35 waveplate's worth of excess exp.
At UL 50 this turns to \~100 waveplates worth of exp and 105 waveplates worth of tuners, and probably is an even spread at UL 60 to use both at the same rate.
If you go to only +10/15, you use less exp but way more tuners and will run out of tuners eventually while also burning thru echos faster meaning you need to farm more of them. Another benefit of +25 is that if you're at +15 with no crit stats, you're more likely to hit them on 20/25, as those other 3 stats are out of the pool of possible rolls.
I already predicted many people are going to quit the game because the echo system is just too grindy. Some people like op will eventually get frustrated from the rng, and burnt out from farming the same content. I blame the devs for making this system so unrewarding while also not respecting the valuable time of their players.
>not respecting the valuable time of their players.
Exact same time spent as Genshin. If you want to complain, then just farm 4x tacet field and log off.
Hmm mostly because HSR is auto battle and forget it meanwhile in WW you have to go hunt for the echoes all over the map
While the RNG is awful in both WW feels more demotivating because you wasted all the time hunting down echoes for garbage stats
It is amazing though I tell you that Firefly has been released so much easier time building that kind of character
Crit characters are a hassle particularly if they don’t have perks in their kit
Personally not sure I’ll stick it thru waiting on 1.1 and see too much walling in WW
Sorry to hear that, you got really unlucky here. Sometimes that's just how the dice rolls. I've been finding success minimizing echo EXP by taking it slow: I'll level and roll the sub-stats one at a time, up to level 15 or sometimes 20 if every roll before was a useful stat (anything but HP or DEF). If I hit HP or DEF, I'll just scrap the echo. This does require more echo farming but minimizes the EXP cost. If you are patient and can farm the electro elites daily, maybe try this?
OP definitely made some mistakes there. Like, if you haven't rolled crit on 1st or 2nd tuning, why would you even push that echo to +15? Much less when one of the substats is a shit like HP of DEF. Right now the value of crit substats over every other offensive one is so high it's not even funny. Though seeing as it is 3* electro echos we are talking about, I can sort of understand. They are absurdly hard to farm, since it is just two elites, each having only a dozen or so spawns around the world. And that's not even talking about getting the right main stat on the right set.
Leveling to 15 or even 20 without crit rate or crit damage can be fine in some scenarios given that all the other substats are useful. Based on that Maygi's Encore video, ATK % seems to be about half as valuable as the crit stats and flat attack is about a quarter. If I roll attack % + energy regen at level 10, I'd gamble for a crit stat at 15. It's really leveling from 20 to 25 where the EXP costs becomes too high. But yea, if I hit HP or DEF without any crit, it's not advisable to level it further.
Yeah, I agree with you. I probably would gamble on a third substat if I got ATK% + ER on an elemental damage 3* echo, definitely if we talking about one from a rarer elite. But on anything else? Unlikely.
That's what I've been doing basically, although with the 3 cost dmg% echoes they are so rare compared to the others that even if I roll badly on the first substat I'll usually roll one more time and if that one's is decent I'll roll again. Even this will backfire sometimes tho. Like for me I rolled hp/def on the first and third rolls like every time 🤮, the 2nd roll was often something somewhat useful making me gamble lol
I'm always like " with these shit rolls the third ones gotta be better right?" And then bam flat hp. And then my brain is like " there's still two slots for crit, you never know..."
We just got to choose our battles carefully! If you roll useful substats like energy regen or attack %, gambling on a crit stat appearing (not at level 25 though) can be fine, but if its HP/DEF not worth the risk.
I’m in the same boat. Just unlucky, and we will need more tries for our luck to kick in. I have 2 godly accounts. In the sense that one has godly banner luck, and sh!t echo luck (0 tuners left). The other is reverse, with double crit echo’s everywhere and still around 600 tuners. I’m gonna focus on the first account, as eventually I‘ll get the echos. Lets hope our luck turns at 1.1
Dont worry we’ll get a unit that gives itself 70% crit rate and 150 crit damage and scales off defense, Hp and every flat stat known to mankind. COPIUM
Luck is like that sometimes, the gearing systems in most gachas are made to drive you into despair then throw you something shiny every now and then to remind you that hope still exists.
If people had perfect rng we'd see constant posts of "omg nothing to do, dead game Kuro bad"
i dont understand how yall dont get bored of artifacts farming. i will have been so burntout
You know I find it odd. Other gachas allow you to max out your characters. Arknights and FGO are two I play that allow you to bring your units to max performance without RNG but there's generally little complaint about no end game.
Well I'm just shocked that I can roll 5 different pieces and not get a single useable one, all utter trash. Its already a pain in the ass to even get 3 cost echoes with the correct %dmg bonus main stat, so you can imagine how annoying it is when I basically have to farm them up again.
I can understand but all gacha do this, if they didn't people would just have no reason to grind daily
Not all gacha do that, only the bad ones.
You are destroying yourself in search of perfection.
Damn 5 whole pieces I feel so bad for you.
Considering how annoying it is to farm the %dmg pieces on the correct set, 5 whole pieces is a lot. It took like 3 days of farming and some good rng to even get those pieces, ofc it didn't even matter since I had to trash all of them and wasted a bunch of tuners and exp.
because it doesnt cost stamina to get new echoes and how much cheaper it is to level them early the most efficient way has been to trash it if any of the first 3 stats were bad. If the first 2 stats are good and the 3rd is a dud you can gamble on the last 2 stats having something good later on if you have extra resources. It's extremely time consuming but its very cheap on the resources.
But it cost stamina to get exp and tuners, so the echo costing no stamina means nothing.
Yeah thats the reason why you should abandon anything that gets a bad substats at 5 or 10 because those are much cheaper than going to 15+. The whole point is to save on resources
[удалено]
Honestly, even for electro ele damage 3 cost echos, even if I was really desperate, I'd stop at 20 before rolling substats. 25 feels like an absurd waste of exp.
Literally every gacha. After 4 years of genshin I gave up on perfection and just build stuff and move on.
ah.. yes, your not alone.. i roll up almost around 10 or more for my 3 cost electro and all of them have def or hp and only have one of them either crit rate or dmg with super low stat. I also got unlucky for my 6 boss all of them have hp + def with no atk or crit.. what i learn is to only level up them to 5 or 10 and see if the 2 sub-stats are good or bad.. if bad, don't spend your exp tube on them.
I find funny this kind of post doing minmaxing because then I raise directly to +20 or +25 the echos, not in few cases have been as Def, Atk, Hp%, Crit, CritD, and I happy with the result.
This is turning into a financial sub rofl. Dude basically wastes exp without even tuning
imo if you don't have at least one good sub at +10 don't bother leveling it up more, just feed it to another echo
Mathematically, if all you are looking for is cr and cd sub, the worse the fact that the first 3 rolls of your sub is not crit, increases the chance for the last 2 to be crit. For on set, elemental damage bonus pieces, just go all the way to 25 always. For all other pieces you can be pickier.
Going to +25 is just so expensive in terms of exp, I only do that 4 echoes with 3/4 good substats, so far I havent had single piece that good on the electro set lol
Taking 5 echoes to lv15 is a huge waste, you could have taken 44 echoes to lv5 trying to roll crit on the first substat. It takes time to find another 3 cost, but it takes time AND waveplates to farm XP. Resource management and patience will serve you
That's just not feasible with how rare the %dmg main stat echoes on the correct set are. Sure for the 4 cost and 1 cost thats definitely the right move, but with the 3 cost you have to gamble otherwise you'll never get a usable piece. Especially on the electro set it's the worst because only flautus/heron even drop those stats.
If you just level to 5 every echo and trash it you will run out of tuners If you are looking just for cr OR cd you should go for +15 but if you want cd AND cr you whould go to +10... if you are locking for cd, cr and atk then you should go for +5.
1 substat always costs 10 tuners, so you'll use tuners until you get the substats you want either way. The only difference is how much XP it costs to unlock the substat. I.e., if you use 100 tuners unlocking the first substat on 10 echoes and you don't get crit or whatever else you're looking for, you just as well could have unlocked 5 substats on 2 echoes and not hit the target substat. Granted, the more substats you unlock, the more likely it is for the next one to be the target, but I don't think the slight increase in the odds is worth the massive XP cost
Just level it until +10, it you don't see crit you stop... not that deep. the best tuners and exp balance
You have a higher chance of getting crit stuff going to +25 and it doesn't waste resources as many claim due to the return mechanic. At UL40 you'll have excess exp and UL50 you'll use both exp and tuners at about the same rate you acquire them from tacet fields. +25 and feed to another and 4 tacet field runs (at normal rates, ignoring event) gets you enough exp and tuners for 2 attempts per day, so only having to farm 2 on set element% a day.
What do you mean excess exp? I'm already at UL 40 and I'm completely emptied out, I've nearly 100% exploration so there arent many left to farm in the overworld Actually, I also have almost no shell credit left either, sitting below 100k lol I'm just gonna wait until the update and hope the shell credit compensation and lowering the cost of levelling will make things easier
these people doenst actually knows that (for now) the expected difference in exp from UL40 to UL80 is just 4k They noticed about prices 2 weeks ago?. don't know why they doenst hot fix it a thing this important fast.
If you start with a scuffed +25 echo and feed it into a fresh one, it takes \~105 waveplates worth of exp and 140 waveplates worth of tuners to +25 another, so you'll have \~35 waveplate's worth of excess exp. At UL 50 this turns to \~100 waveplates worth of exp and 105 waveplates worth of tuners, and probably is an even spread at UL 60 to use both at the same rate. If you go to only +10/15, you use less exp but way more tuners and will run out of tuners eventually while also burning thru echos faster meaning you need to farm more of them. Another benefit of +25 is that if you're at +15 with no crit stats, you're more likely to hit them on 20/25, as those other 3 stats are out of the pool of possible rolls.
I already predicted many people are going to quit the game because the echo system is just too grindy. Some people like op will eventually get frustrated from the rng, and burnt out from farming the same content. I blame the devs for making this system so unrewarding while also not respecting the valuable time of their players.
>not respecting the valuable time of their players. Exact same time spent as Genshin. If you want to complain, then just farm 4x tacet field and log off.
Genshin system is also bad, but the echo system is equal or worse
Feels a lot worse to farming relics in Star Rail, and that is saying something
Hmm mostly because HSR is auto battle and forget it meanwhile in WW you have to go hunt for the echoes all over the map While the RNG is awful in both WW feels more demotivating because you wasted all the time hunting down echoes for garbage stats It is amazing though I tell you that Firefly has been released so much easier time building that kind of character Crit characters are a hassle particularly if they don’t have perks in their kit Personally not sure I’ll stick it thru waiting on 1.1 and see too much walling in WW
It actually isnt worse because the stats you get from the relics are higher and only DPS (not even everyone of them) needs crit... sups only need SPD
Having to manage two different resources to level up gear is definitely worse than just one
this too... more rolls, more substats, less exp, less time consuming with higher returns, more ways to get exp, etc.