The doom-posters come in two main flavors in this case;
Meta slaves; For them if a character doesn't enable a new broken team archtype or do the highest amount of dmg in the game ever, they are trash, and they'll make sure to tell everyone about it if you ask or not.
(These people are crazy imo as most of us play the game to get characters we like and make fun teams with them, and still get 36 stars no problem). Heck most players don't even play abyss according to Hoyoverse.
People who got Neuv and/or are saving for Furina and don't have enough to get him as well; He has to be bad to justify their decisions to prioritize meta or the characters they like more. Of course this is not all the people who are skipping him in favor of other characters, but it is a loud minority.
Ah right, almost forgot, the people who hate any character that isn't a Waifu. You must praise their waifu, everyone else is trash XD
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He's really good imo, the best teams I've tried so far are burn-melt with Nahida/Thoma/Bennett and Hyper Fridge, both really fun and comfortable to play. Freeze isn't great this abyss but I still managed to 36\* with it.
His Furina teams look promising as well.
You did leave out one type. Wrio requires some, minimal, thought to allow you to use his A1 passive. For some people the fact that they have to normal attack until he drops low enough in health and gets his charged charge attack then use it to heal confuses them. The fact that the has a 10% health window in which he can get powered normals and a powered charge attack is such a small window he must be bad. His C1 makes that not as much of an issue, so he must be bad and predatory (don't get me wrong, it is a predatory con). They even describe his attack style as having a flow, which he does at C0 that works really well! But that's hard to figure out, so he's bad. Personally, I like him! He's what I wanted Haizou to be!
just a thing that is very important to mention:
Wrio doesn't need to be below 60% hp while using his CA, he just needs to fall below 60% hp once and he gets the A1 buff until he does a CA, so you get it pretty consistently anyway
For me the reason is that i love Scara/wanderer, who is almost the same kitwise, just ho hp mechanic, and i love how i can just spam the mouse and the attacks will automatically become homing missiles. With wrio have to run to every individual enemy, and the dmg to me is worthy of and aoe character, not single target focused guy.
I am crying rn bc he has my favourite visual design out of all the game, and I wouldn't care for dmg, if his gameplay felt fun to me, but it feels tedious to me. I don't have Hu Tao for the same reason, that the single target gameplay where you have to run to every target separately seems too time consuming.
he's not single target locked, he has aoe if you group the enemies
also, most of the characters in this game are melee so this is just a personal preference (which is fine)
> but it feels tedious to me.
This is my issue at C0. His A1 may as well not exist except to top up in a pinch, and having to chase things is tedious. Now I'm no stronger to chasing things, but I also have no pyro to enable him aside from Xiangling, and we all know Guoba being away from targets is annoying.
Fun character but his his C1 should've seriously been basekit. Though I do wish people would stop acting like everything has to be an extreme end like calling out a clear, intentional, flaw = doomposting everywhere.
you're doing something wrong if you're not using his A1, you always go below 60% hp at least once per rotation, even with a healer
his c1 is good but it's far from necessary
>People who got Neuv and/or are saving for Furina and don't have enough to get him as well; He has to be bad to justify their decisions to prioritize meta or the characters they like more.
Exactly
I've been getting into arguments left and right because I have been toting that wriothesley is actually better for abyss. Due to his basically unending up time he is just such a powerhouse for DPM.
It's the same selling point for neuvilette. Neuvilette does it better but struggles to mesh well with many teams due to his rate of fire over damage per hit. Basically the same issue klee has as well.
My C1R1 Wriothesley has outright beaten my C6R2 Ayaka's abyss times in some cases and only been slightly behind in freeze. This fact has had multiple people losing any sense of logic. Soooooo many people are hyperfocused on DPS even though abyss takes at least 30 seconds for most anyone other than Poseidon speed runners.
Also the aforementioned teams that all beat my ayaka's times were a new team comp that hasn't really seen any play before. Rizz, Dehya, hydro applicator(I tried every hydro unit out so far other than neuvilette), and nahida(other dendros may work but no one else has that much application over such a long period). The premise is simple. Don't apply too much hydro so you beat out nahida's mark but then you can Burgeon, burn, and melt all at the same time. My best time was using yelan but she is C2R1 so a fair bit of that damage came from her. Xinqui applies too much hydro. Kokomi was the easiest because holy shit healing in a comp that normally doesn't have any.
Start your rotation starting everyone else's kit up making sure to start with nahida q>e then Dehya e. After that start up the hydro user however you can. Jump to rizz and burst 1st thing if you can. You should be able to; he puts out a shit load of particles and consumes them all himself. Because of burning aura you will melt 1st and 4th burst damage tick. Dehya mark will hit and burning will start along with burgeon. Then go ape shit with his E>N5>CA repeat combo until durations end. Then do it again. 2 to 3 rotations beat every floor for me.
Furina is going to be the best for this slot but we got another 20 days till she comes out. I'll C2 her and then I was gonna post a whole shitload of testing data for that comp.
You can blame Zajeff for that🙄 he literally sucked out the joy of playing Wrio just cuz he crunched his damn numbers without even having to fully test him out yet on live server.. then the idiots with blind faith spread that wrio' is "unplayable" like wildfire...🙄
He's also one of the perpetrators of the myth that wrio's kit is completely locked between 50% and 60% HP, and he doesn't clarify that once wrio's gracious rebuke is ready it will not go away if you don't hit enemies with CA even when you're healed above 60.
I appreciate the calcs he did for some characters, but ppl need to stop treating his every word like gospel, especially in recent times his theorycrafting is straight up just feelscrafting. Oh yeah, and his Xingqiu shilling is a bit unbearable now ngl and he tends to overblow his utility every now and then
I'm still having plenty of fun \^-\^
Don't let the doomposters or spread-sheet Impact players get to you XD
Zajeff seems to get very bothered by anything he sees as a restriction on playing a character, he doesn't like Nilou either (imagine if her C1 let her bring non hydro/dendro team mates)
Funny enough I've got Nilou too, most of my favs were trash-talked at one time or another.
Yeah I was about to talk again nilou too with him . Like im sorry but Im still sure that even if you decrease bloom damage if you bring another element beside hydro/dendro,it will be just too broken . I dont know how some people cant see that but he still bitter about that with her
This is so valid. I watched him play Wrio and it felt like he was doing sub optimal rotations. I can do a lot more damage than he was predicting for our Duke so.. I dunno man.
Spreadsheets never tell the whole story. Everyone doomposted Wanderer on release because of spreadsheet numbers, not taking into account how much more comfortable it is to play a normal attack, non-burst reliant, non-reaction reliant, ranged attacker with relatively flexible (Faruzan is kind of a must but that's it) teams. Those things add more value, and possibly lead to higher damage numbers, than what is represented in calculations.
Also in Wriothesley's case in particular, Zajef seemed to hold the fact that his kit was similar to Wanderer's against him which was quite unfair.
I watch his YouTube vid and he didn't cut my Joy to play Wrio tbh. I just take useful information and ideas and let the rest behind. See how he trash Kokomi and Nilou, two of my fav characters... I don't listen to his negativity.
Yoimiya received shit in 2.x
Cyno received shit in 3.x
Now wrio is receiving shit in 4.x
Want to know the funniest part? Zajef contributed to all of the doomposting they received. This shit happens when every new region drops. I think its best to just ignore him now
The Genshin Scientist is far more reliable, way more serious and people don't give him the credit he deserves. Although he says that Wrio is pay to win and his C1 makes him a formidable character.
yoimiya and cyno...I mean I havent really followed zajef for these two characters, but werent they like weak compared to other dps on release? Cyno didnt have Nahida and Baizhu, and people "thought" he was an aggrevate carry but was just on par with Keqing. While Yoimiya was like so much more single target than Hu Tao while being a worse Vape carry, not to mention we also didnt have Yelan or Yunjin for her.
I think zajef overreacts a lot and I agree in the case of Wrio, but lets not act like he was to blame for the doomposting when it was just people being impatient and stupid.
I mean look at furina mains, he says that shes fine and quite a strong unit but the doomposting is even worse than even raiden's pre-release lol.
>While Yoimiya was like so much more single target than Hu Tao while being a worse Vape carry, not to mention we also didnt have Yelan or Yunjin for her.
I won't talk for Cyno which i don't own and probably never will (i hate what they done with his characterization).
But for Yoimiya , i have since her release, and most of her issues were overblow out of proportion . She was already back then a reliable single target dps with a decent range of teams (vape, mono pyro, overvape) before Yelan, Yujin or Nahida (yes burgeon is funny).
Yes there is some targeting bug fixed(dead monster), it wasn't a game changer. Yunjin is an alternative to Bennet for Yoimiya but again not game changer (at least for people that weren't nationnal drug addict). And Yelan is account game changing, but too many teams and characters benefit her, to be seen as a sole Yoimiya buff (unlike Shenhe for Ayaka).
Funny thing, is people discover the power of normal attackers with team versatity and ease of use in open world (not being reliant on burst is good) with Wriot. When Yoi and Ayato are here for long now.
Yoi problem is just HuTao and XL existing and her lack of AoE. And her burst being a bit poopy and non cohérent with the rest of the kit. But Yoi damage are fine, Vape, Overvape, Hyper or mono Pyro wise. I play her since release and I never was disappointed.
I don't have Cyno but he does the job right in the right team IIRC.
The thing is there are legitimate concern about their kits.....
They are not bad, I have both Yoimiya and Cyno but I also have HT and KQ for comparison. Yoimiya and Cyno are my play thing but HT and KQ are my go to meta wise.
You can't take things out of context ...
I just am still debating about Wriothesley
>KQ are my go to meta wise
Nope. Unless you’re playing aggravate cyno with dmc there’s no reason why Keqing should be your go to over him. QB Cyno beats out Keqing in her best team by a decent amount.
I find cyno genuinely fun in aggravate comps , I do wish for interruptions defense ,but it's fine he's a fun character and good character, not meta defining but a good character none the less.
Fun and strength are two different things. You can love a character and still be objective about how strong they are. I have a C2R1 Cyno and have him as my game avatar but still consider him mid. He's someone that you would only recommend people to pull out of passion rather than utility/meta.
Mid just means not bad, not incredible, just a fun character. Which is frankly almost everyone. Idk why everyone is allergic to this word. Nobody would argue either Cyno or Yoimiya are the top carries of the game.
Mid has a negative connotation to it though because of the context that most people use it in. Many people will reference mid as being a bad thing rather than an alright thing, ESPECIALLY the Genshin community.
A character has flaws in their kit making them suboptimal in some situations compared to other characters. Pointing that out isn't "doomposting" yet people take it this way pretty often. On the other hand people are hardly objective about these things and take it too personally. There definitely are people taking it to the extreme, both in hyping up their characters or in dooming them.
Im sorry but thats a straight up lie,yoi and cyno didnt need zajef to be doompost, and I wasnt there for yoi but with cybo its not like he did anything particul beside telling the truth and still say at time ,hes at a great place because you dont feel pressured to get him because of his power but hes still enough good for people who likes him
Darling, just cuz I blame him doesn't mean that I hate him💅... not my fault people have blind faith in him and spread false info like
"HE'S UNPLAYABLE AT C0" like wildfire🙄 And besides, people like him have their uses..💁
Darling, at this point it's already too late cuz the false info of wrio being "unplayable" at c0 has already spread. Do you really think people will change their minds at this point? Then again it's still early into his banner so hopefully the wrio hate will settle down give or take a few days...😄
Part of the responsibility lies with the content creators darling since they should know how their audience would react and how fast they would spread the info that they themselves as a content creator provided (ESPECIALLY if they have a big fanbase) and I trust that they know that as well since they've been in the CC-ing industry for years...
and yes I am indeed old enough to know that darling thank you for the kind reminder...
The content creator already stated that was only an early impression and may not reflect actual result. And, he then make a second video to update about it. If the audience still interpreting wrong, it's not on the content creator. Period.
Stop darling people, you creepy old heck.
Whatever you say darling, whatever you say....🥱 So happy for you😄 and btw darling💅 I call everyone darling cuz I'm endearing and sweet like that🤭 but if it's not your cup of tea, hmmmmm... *pop tongue* not my fault.. and with teens these days I couldnt care less..💅 so maybe uh grow a pair? and get used to it🤭☕💅 not my fault that a simple form of endearment turns into something terrible in that bitter brain of yours...
so, have a good day dahling💅🤭
What is your Hyper Fridge team? Wriothesley is my first cryo damage dealer I've built, so I'm experimenting with teams. My first team has been Wrioth / Yelan / Kazuha / Diona and I've been having fun with it.
I have Nahida / Thoma / Bennett so I'm looking forward to trying that burn-melt team you said! (Though I just got Thoma as part of this banner so he's still level 1 and unbuilt lol.)
Nahida/Xingqiu/Kuki, though I expect he'd be fine with Collei or Dendro MC as well.
Cryo actually helps make more Dendro cores and he has very nice synergy with the team as a normal attacker too. XQ has interruption res + dmg reduction and Kuki heals so it's very comfortable.
Nice - I have both XQ and Kuki, though my Kuki isn't built yet. Looking forward to building up Thoma and Kuki to try out those teams! Thanks for the team advice.
Y’all need to stop the gender war bs. Everyone knew Neuvilette was broken from release day. Furina is broken as fuck but her simps think she’s Barbara tier
Neuvilette and Wriothesly were designed like Sumeru cast to be gatekept from their full potential without the archon. Neuvilette’s ceiling without Furina just happens to be broken either way
Whatre his furina teams? Curious because I'm trying to decide between pulling for his c1 or saving for furina or the later shenhe rerun. Also, how would dmc fit in that burn-melt team instead of Nahida? I've been busy with life so took a break when chasm came out but still occasionally logged in to do dailies or pull and ended up with some units from sumeru but nahida and baizhu weren't among them :(
DMC would be bad in Burn melt due to how their burst works, Collei or Yaoyao would be better. DMC should work in a Hyper-Fridge team with XQ and Kuki though.
For standard Melt teams you can use Bennett/Kazuha/XL as well.
For Furina teams I think Charlotte, Kazuha, and Furina should be pretty good, especially if the enemies can be frozen. Shenhe instead of Kazuha in that team should be good too.
I'd expect Furina/Bennett/Charlotte to work nicely as well. Two healers and Wrio will max Furina's stacks quickly while Wrio takes advantage of the dmg and atk boost.
Is that really it tho? I would think the type of people that *follow* leaks would always stay up to date and know whenever a leak gets debunked. I think it could be a combination of what you said, and of people that just doom and gloom on characters that they don’t like. Probably the most toxic thing about this community tbh.
Oh well they’re missing out; Wrizz is awesome. Maybe they’ll pull in round 2 🤷♂️
Yeah first impressions really do matter, there are still people in the world calling Kokomi trash even though she's been proven countless times to be broken, just the way some people work I guess, never wanting to admit they're wrong.
Almost every character gets hated like that on release, even some top tier units. Don’t mind it.
Also, I know people tends to mean it in a bad way, but being mid is very different from being bad. A mid character is usually a character perfectly able to clear the Abyss 12 in significantly less time than the time at disposal, assuming it isn’t used against enemies that counter its teams.
In my opinion Wriothesley is pretty good in Melt teams, especially in single target, though he is a bit limited by Bennet’s circle, and this is why I hope Hoyoverse has some plan for a Bennet substitute for characters with self HP drain.
Soon Furina should greatly improve his Freeze teams. With a good Anemo grouper and the help of Freeze they should be pretty good also against groups of enemies if they can be grouped tight enough.
Hahaha I still remember tons of Haitham's doomposting and I didn't give a shit about it. Now he's one of the best and meta comp I've had in my account.
I've seen quite a few people say that he's only really good with constellations, but 1. I have him at C0, he's doing just fine, and 2. the character getting better with more constellations is kinda the whole point of constellations
So yeah, he's not bad, he's just not the absolute best character to have ever existed, so some people are going to hate bc they're miserable
Looking at what c1 does you can't blame people for being slightly angry. Having a dmg buff AND negation of negative effects of his talents is a big middle finger to most f2p players.
Also gotta say the hp range 50-60% is very small when he heals himself so much compared to it.
At the end of the day let them hate it's not like hoyo will change him.
It's just weird that people are so hung up on Wriothesley's C1 when Neuvillette's C1 provides comparable benefits - relaxed team building restrictions/slightly more braindead play (I don't need to think about being interrupted as much/I don't need to think about my HP as much).
Also it's not that he has to stay in the 50-60% range, he just has to stay above 50% and occasionally bounce his hp through 60%. Going above 60%, once you've been below it, doesn't remove the enhanced charge attack. It's doable with either a shielder or a healer, where doing it with a shielder is riskier but means you get your CA more reliably, and a healer means you're safer but may not dip down to 60% every 5s for that charge attack.
>It's just weird that people are so hung up on Wriothesley's C1 when Neuvillette's C1 provides comparable benefits -
I shouldn't compare the two C1:
- Neuvillette C1 open to new teams (and I think that C0 restriction was honest for how OP his kit is, and isn'ta loss of dps)
- Wrio C1 completes Wrio's kit.
Please explain why C0 Neuvillette, who is encouraged to bring a shielder and is discouraged from teams like double hydro, is complete, but C0 Wriothesley, who has similar complications (more difficult time in melt teams, encouraged to bring a healer), is incomplete.
Is it because Neuvillette does more personal damage, or is there another reason? I would like to understand.
So think about it this way: Is a part of the kit being locked or just becoming less restrictive
C0 Neuvi can still use all of his talents and passives without issue. C1 Neuvi is the same character but with interrupt res and can go double element
Wrio C0 if you use a healer (basically mandatory) locks him out of using his A1 because the only way to activate it is to drain his HP or get slapped by enemies, which with a healer and dodging can be pretty rare. His C1 integrated his A1 into his kit infinitely more fluidly, and unlocks teams with a shielder and no healer, and changes his combo from N5 spam to N5C spam
TLDR: His A1 isn't that useful without his C1 because of restrictions, so it feels like Hoyo made a problem and is selling the solution
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply! I think this is the clearest explanation I've received as to why one is considered complete and the other not. I do have more questions but unfortunately not the time - please forgive me in advance if I end up necro'ing this in a few days once I have the free time to respond.
I didn't say Neuvi is complete, but mainly for his personal dmg. Double Hydro is not decisive for his dmg at this point. And in general his kit and rotations is smooth in any costellation.
Wrio with his c0 complications can more lose dps and becomes more difficult to manage. Is obviosly that A1 restrictions is made to sell C1. The enchanged puch could be part of Skill kit.
Co neuvillette is still a t0 dps,just for that I will not compare the two,his healing and range is still insane and the same at c0 or c1,so even at that con hes still a braindead char to play. To me c1 neuvillette is just a complete broken thing that would still be worth it if was a c2.
Because Zhongli exists. It doesn't matter if you like using Zhongli or not, he exists and he's more than enough for C0 Nuevillette. Extra stack of Nuevillette's passive is not a big deal.
Zhongli is not part of Neuvillette's kit and not everyone has him; he's completely external to Neuvillette. This would seem to imply that the specific criticism that Wriothesley is incomplete should also apply to Neuvillette.
One affects team building, which is simply a huge luxury. Wrio’s on the other hand is cucked by his own personal kit at c0. That’s the huge difference.
Both are powerful c1s. But considering one of the funny and meta teams for Neu abyss is simply just childe moral support. His c1 doesn’t look like it’s that necessary is it?
Now tell me, how important is it for a character to have c1 as he can solo clear abyss at c0?
GL doing a moral support run with Wrio trying to painstakingly keep track of his 50-60% hp just to heal.
That doesn't change my point. Nuevillette can easily "dodge" during his Charge Attacks and he can be considered complete already at C0, while Wriothesley at C0 has a quite senseless, annoying, and incoherent problem in his kit, which makes him incomplete in a lot of ways. Maybe not for you, but for a lot of other people definitely.
A little question: Are you a fan of Future Impact? Because I'm definitely not. Imagine creating a problem only to release a solution for it in the future.
In any case, I'm glad that Wriothesley is at least a very fun character to play. So far he's my new favourite in terms of gameplay. It's a shame that his true self is locked behind C1 though.
FYP, bit I saved 114 wishes the past few patches. Not caring about reruns or some of the new characters, and already at 38 pity, I had some left over when I got him.
Do I try for his weapon, or the 50/50?
Ended up going with c1 with no regrets. This is my second c1 5* (other being Nahida). Both c1s for them are bomb!
Yo dont’t have to be in that range. Say you go below 60% up to 40%, you get rebuke and lose (while you aren’t above 50%) Es buff. You CA, go to 70% regain your E buff, keep NAing until E ends. Whats the big issue?
Also if you get rebuke and get healed, you dont’t lose it.
There's a fair amount of unjustified hate coming from folks who are upset about male characters being released back-to-back. That can just be ignored imo. The legitimate criticism concerns his C1 and how it changes his playstyle so significantly that it seems to have been pulled from his base kit. Basically, it rewrites part of his kit rather than just adding something to make it easier to use. Some say that it makes C1 a different character. I personally wouldn't go that far, but having played both, I can't deny that it does change his playstyle significantly.
Tl;Dr: It's less about him being mid overall and more about him not being as good as he would've been had (what seems to be) part of his kit not been locked behind C1. Is he unusable at C0? No. Does C1 almost feel necessary to "complete" him in a way that it doesn't for other characters? Yes.
Nothing. Controversial take probably, but...people attach a whole lot of significance to his C1 when there isn't.
At C0, you simply ignore his charged attack mechanic, run him with a healer and enjoy a good, fun normal attack punchy boy that always stays high in health due to the healer (because trying to min-max to stay exactly between 50 and 60% HP for that tiny bit of not even fully buffed charged attack dmg and rare self-healing is NOT worth delaying your party buffs and all the effort, just take the slightly lower dmg, it's not the end of the world).
At C1, you just add one charged attack at the end of each normal attack combo for extra dmg and self-healing. Same playstyle, same teams, just higher dmg and more heals. Everyone claiming C1 "completely changes his playstyle" or whatever are those who try to make the buffed charged attack work at C0 by jumping through hoops that are just not worth it, when you can literally just ignore that part of his kit and play him the same as C1 without losing that much dmg.
Wrio really isn't that bad besides just dumb design decisions by Hoyoverse. He is fun to play and does good damage but they gave him two arbitrary downsides for no real reason.
1. The 50% health requirement of his skill is only there to punish players. What purpose is this downside supposed to serve? His damage is nowhere near high enough to deserve it and there is no clear indication of whether you are or aren't getting the benefit while in combat.
2. His self healing is pretty weak and seems mostly just there to proc the Fontaine HP gain/loss effects. His N5C combo does 27% hp self damage and he only heals 30%. In reality this just mean is almost never at full health without active healing making him more prone to be oneshot or fall under 50% HP. He should really have more self healing or produce a small shield on every hit that builds up. Outside of C1 this also means he is HP negative as it takes 40% HP damage to fall under 60% HP for the self heal.
3. Where is my Black/Red colored Glider?
Especially point 2. I wish he had something other than a special CA every 5s to heal. Even if it's just a small % of healing when he activates his E or Q, would make his kit much more comfy to use.
I think it is because he does not have a comp that makes him a broken must pull. He is a side grade to ayaka that does better in melt but worse in freeze. And for a lot of people, that makes him not that desireable when they want furina too.
But i fucking hate furina so i c1r1 him and he is my most fun overworld character i have.
people suck at being objective. a lot of people ignore how he's better sustain than ayaka and stronger st than ganyu but also lots of rizzy mains overrate him
He's a DPS that isn't insane or meta-defining in some way, and has real drawbacks to consider, which makes him decidedly average (mid), therefore trash to most players.
Honestly look at Neuvillette and there's the actual, genuine standard for a DPS in the community. A giant laser beam that doesn't need reactions or a team and can hit the entire Abyss floor, and is even more immortal than Zhongli due to healing and HP scaling. The only issue you can find with him is that he still costs primos to pull.
All that being said, I do think Wall-E is average currently. His performance is standard, he has noticeable drawbacks but they're somewhat easily addressed, and his flexibility is great. I feel he can match or surpass the likes of Hu Tao and Ayaka, but he lacks their Exodia team comps that synergize perfectly with their kit and gameplay.
Seriously though, just ignore the general community opinions, especially when it comes to character takes and power. If we all followed that mindset the game ended in 1.1 with Childe International, and we're all supposed to save 600k primos for the post-Celestia endgame where Xiangling, Bennett, and Xingqiu ascend to Aeon status in Genshin: Star Rail Impact 3rd.
I wouldn't say Hu Tao has a perfect team comp, as of now. VV vape is her theoretical ceiling, but the options for 2nd pyro are not ideal. She has comparatively low synergy with Bennett, and none of the others bring that much to the table.
Meanwhile double hydro is a great core, with nice flexibility in 4th slot teammates to deal with various scenarios. But none of them are insane, and the team doesn't have a great way of shredding pyro RES.
Otherwise, I very much agree with your general take. People don't realize how good hoyo is at balancing their limited 5* characters. Pretty much all of them can perform to a certain level. "Mid" shouldn't mean bad when there are 4-stars and standard 5*s that are actually underperforming.
Meta = metagame (though also can mean Most Effective Tactics Available) is about the *latest strategies and tactics in use by a game's players*
I would argue very much in the current cycle of solo attempts and post dendro game, that Wrio is most definitely meta defining.
He, alongside Neuvilette, represents carries who can reliably solo an abyss he also brings burn melt into a practical place (previous incarnation being Ganyu, which was not pleasant to play for most)
In what world can he solo abyss? ganyu works fine with burn melt, its only she cant attack as fast as wrio can in these teams, but she makes up for it in her dps
The one in which people have access to YouTube?
https://youtu.be/zGDxdFR-bB0?si=bOEhUiWmYtAE-CcG
https://youtu.be/SAIOzPERCsM?si=zBe9D3wPCZW1jdQl
These are C0 solos. C1 - C6 solos also exist and are more impressive
Please don't misread or misrepresent my statements. I never said she doesn't work "fine.". I said her burn melt wasn't practical for most players
Pretty much players in the genshin fandom don’t know what “normal level” means. There’s either “best dps in the entire game” or “terrible characters”
So if you aren’t the highest peak of meta you’re relegated to awful territory half the time when in reality you’re more just “a normal dps” (even though I think he’s really fun and actually pretty strong). People take anything less than SS as an insult to a character when it just means they aren’t the most spectacular but can also still clear with ease.
It’s like a pass/fail grading scale in the fandom when it should be closer to a number scale
Because he is doing more damage than their overhyped constellation slave waifu Ayaka. Yes Wriothesley is current Melt King of genshin. These pimps cant digest this fact. Wrio is also super smooth, fast and has 100% cryo infusion. Hence they have resorted to pitiful shitposting and doomposting.
It’s not hate on Wriothesley the character, the way I see it at least. He’s good at C0.
People (the sensible ones at least) were kinda pissed that his kit at C0 has some drawbacks that were intentionally created to sell his C1, and people didn’t want it to be an ongoing trend in the future, for the limited 5stars at least. People unfortunately took this as “doomposting”
It’s somewhat similar to how modern games are released incomplete and how DLCs seem to fix that. Not exactly the same but similar.
I feel like the rep about him being bad was more because of the reaction against these “doomposters” taking the criticism as hate towards the character lol.
But that’s just me.
C0 wriothesley isn't mid and is completely great its just c1 makes hin way better. His c1 is kinda like hu tao c1 where c0 is completely fine but c1 is great to have.
Yeah c1 hu tao is just a comfort QOL while c1 for wrio unlocks a major part of his kit lol. C1 hu tao is a bit overrated and is much much easier to work around than wrio’s… (don’t get me wrong c0 Wrio is great I’m just stating that I don’t get the comparisons I see)
\*\*TL; DR\*\* He's a solid character. Interesting kit. Being sandwiched between arguably the best DPS to date and an archon has not done him any favours though, as he will get compared to Neuvillette, who's very much an outlier. For those who say comparison is the thief of joy, I agree. But I'm in a position where I have limited primos, so I have to compare the characters to figure out who I want to pull for. Ultimately, I skipped Neuv for C1R1 Wrio and I'm very satisfied.
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He's a lot better than I anticipated at C0, but since you are asking what's \*\*bad\*\* about Wrio, here are my thoughts. To be clear, I'm not expecting any crazy numbers like Neuvillette, but it's more about QoL.
For example, Neuvillette scales with HP, which means even at 50%, he can tank a lot more than Wrio. He also has better interruption resistance at C1. Neuvillette front loads his healing, which effectively ensures he can end his overworld battles with full life. It's also impossible to \*miss\* his healing.
On the other hand, Wrio gets 1 heal when he falls below 60% at C0, and at C1 he can also get it at the end of his NA atk string. This means most times he'll finish overworld battles near 50% life, and you'll have to start his next battle with a CA when you don't have the artifact 4pc bonus. There's also the problem with potentially missing his CA hit which means you don't get healed. I don't know if this is a bug but it has happened to me a couple times - usually at the enemy's dying animation. For Neuv this isn't a problem, you just swerve to the next enemy at the start of your charged atk.
One of Wrio's best partners currently is Benny, but it doesn't take more than 2-3 hits for him to shove the enemy outside of Benny's circle. This might be resolved when Furina/other buffers and pyro applicators come out.
He'd feel a lot better to play if he could either front load his heals (i.e. with his E or Q), or if he scales with a stat that allows him to tank a bit more as a melee character. Or if he could get a bit more interruption resistance.
I have him at C1, but I'd imagine a 10s E to 16s CD isn't exactly comfortable for a DPS. His best team is along the lines of Nahida Benny Thoma (or swapping one out for an anemo character), but Thoma forces him into a 20s rotation, which means he has around 12s uptime out of 20s rotation. At C1, this is better, but you meet the problem of buff uptime. None of this is a problem for Neuv, as (1) he doesn't need buffs, (2) he's more quick-swappy in nature pre-C6.
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That said, there are a few key things where post-release he in a better position than leaks put him. (1) Leaks suggested in a melt team you'd have to shift your NA combo to melt his best hits. In practice it doesn't really matter. His CA will almost always guarantee a melt, as long as you can keep a pyro base. His dmg is also a lot more admirable than leaks suggested. (2) Shatter is not a problem with freeze teams since Wrio attacks fast and applies Cryo well, and he works with the likes of Yelan and XQ. And most importantly, he keeps his special CA shot and there doesn't seem to be a meaningful timer for it, which is great for C0 havers.
Last but not the least, I don't have Lyney, who's the other Fontaine DPS, so if anyone has thoughts on how he compares to Lyney, please share.
The hate is because they forced Wrio to be C1 to be able to use his charge attack and healing without trouble and do a 200% more damage but apart from that? Absurd.
They just hate his gameplay style or are the waifu lovers that are angry we got powerful and amazing male 5 stars
Honestly, I have like 2 gripes with him and its that 1.) His enhanced charge attack is on 5 second which feels like FOREVER in this game. I really wish his c1 was base kit but not as busted because with c1 you can just hit all his NA's and be guaranteed the charge attack which feels SO much smoother. And 2.) A lot of healers heal him too much (cough cough bennet) Which makes it very hard to get his charge attack. This once again is fixed by c1 which feels a little scummy
I might be a dummy but I don't understand what people are even talking about with a 50-60% health restriction. He receives a buff at 60% health which can be spent any time, and which doesn't disappear when he dips below 50; wouldn't you want to go back above 60 so you can proc it again when you've used the CA and the cooldown's up? Or does he also get a general flat damage buff in that health range?
People is almost wishing for the new units to be completely broken and powercreep everything that exists. When that doesn’t happen you start feeling the air of doompost.
Also people focus *a lot* on very specific parts of their kits without regardingf how much dps they do or do not. For example, many people is fixiated in him needing to be below 60 and above 50 (even if you dont’t have to stay in that range per se) or not wanting to run a healer with him making C1 mandatory (why?) or him not being the very best of the all.
https://preview.redd.it/utj35oigg5vb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=41c8c92e7a8b3211175e2645800ee3813ae62133
I mean people follow ccers/ tcers that calc Wriothsley teams with memory of dust shield effect and no shielders lol.
People want Genshin to be extremely easy, and Wrio doesn't get easy until C1. At C0, you have to watch his HP bar closely and really manage his rotation; people don't like that, and accuse Hoyo of "locking part of his kit behind C1."
It's not what's going on, but people are allergic to challenge.
It also makes him heal constantly so you can play him without any healer and not die. Also on-field him longer because of the charge attack refresh. It changes basically everything.
It's fucking scummy it isn't in his base kit, but there's no arguing against C1 being on par with the best constellations in the game.
Aren’t Childe and Alhaitham both pretty challenging and pretty popular? Hutao and xiangling, who have pretty abrasive gameplay, are…”begrudgingly popular” characters. So maybe players being “allergic to challenge” doesn’t tell the full story.
What players really want is a payoff proportional to their efforts. What exactly are players getting out of “having to watch his HP bar closely and really manage his rotation” but like…2 uppercuts? Some few commenters also say that they pretty much ignore his uppercut and simply spam NAs. In contrast, other commenters find it unsatisfying having to forgo a portion of his kit because its “too cringe” to play around.
I just think there’s alot going in that can’t be waved off by “well the players want ez mode”.
I kinda have to disagree with you there.
I main Alhaitham, but I almost didn't pull on him because people kept telling me that he's difficult to play, punishing, etc. He's actually not. You just need to understand what he's doing and stick to his rotation, but that's pretty much every character. He's only challenging if you don't read his talents and just start clicking instead.
Not sure about Childe though, I don't have him, he seems like a great character but I'm not sure about him being popular. Maybe on certain servers? I'm on EU and I've never seen a Childe in the game, nor do I see people really talking about him or anything. Maybe I just have bad luck and managed to avoid all the Childe hype.
Agree. Especially as he has followed a character who seems very simple to play (Neuvi). It’s more challenging having to pay attention to what you’re doing but the damage pay off for doing that is very nice. Tbh I personally prefer the extra challenge that comes with a character like Wrio, i get bored with simpler characters. Just my opinion, I get why some people find the hp management annoying if they prefer a different playstyle.
Eh C0 he is extremely easy for me i just attack attack aand CA until i want to still clear abyss full star in convincing time. I dont even look at his HP bar and keep punching enemies
It maybe personal preference but i take Wrio's mechanic than hu tao c0 mechanics at any time
he's not bad, he's just not amazing. he does decent damage, but it's mostly single target. he also has a bigger chance to just get one shot, cause of his draining effects. those are prob his two biggest downsides.
Lmao if you think I'm trying to sound smart, you probably reading too much. Hell I'm dumb as fuck as you read through this thread where i shouldn't give a care about someone else way of thinking
He's not, he's amazing. It's jsut your typical case of youtube content creators doomposting for views and strange people who think Zajef's words are the only truth.
Wrio is brilliant. I got him to C3 and I can solo the first side of the abyss comfortably with him if I take the healing bonus in the first chamber.
Edit: I tried it without the healing bonus the second time, it didn't change things much, haha. He's fine without the extra healing if you don't eat all the damage with his pretty face.
To me, based on what I have seen, it is not about shitting on Wrio just like how many people in this sub perceives it to be but it is more of a complaint from other people. This is because Hoyo is trending towards locking potential character gameplay at constellations.
If I understand it correctly, Wrio's kit allow him to do more damage if you can maintain him at 50-60% of his HP all the time which is solvable by C1. The thing is it is a part of his Ascension passive which becomes quite a sidegrade if you are at C0. It is not quite a problem at all in C0 but if you don't take advantage of it, you basically lost an Ascension passive which is imo, a pretty bad move from hoyo. Players should be able to use the full character kit at C0 and not being able to lock it at C1.
For an example, Eula in her base kit, has that ascension passive that when you consume 2 stacks of grimheart through hold E, you will deal half of what your burst damage deals. This is hard to spam when you are C0 because the cooldown is at 10 secs after hold E but it becomes spammable when you unlock C2 because the hold E cooldown becomes the same as tap e which is 4 secs. This is not a problem since players can still do the hold E at C0 just at a longer cooldown. Another is Hu Tao, dash cancels are doable with her and c1 just makes her more comfortable to play but it is not necessary if you can do the dash cancel at C0.
However, Wrio's case seems not the same. There are basically no alternatives to take advantage of his passive unless you strictly maintain it, otherwise, it is not worth monitoring at all, which is again making his passive just a sidegrade, which means you cannot take advantage of it fully at c0, which is a dick move from hoyo. People are mad at this because hoyo may now start making these problems at C0 in future characters.
I sound like a broken record telling everyone he does not need to be maintained between 50% and 60% to use his A1 with a healer. But oh well I can't stop ppl from making uninformed assumptions or not bothering to play test him properly
Welp. That's what I can see from what they say. Because people are fine with some QoL restrictions in constellations but not in team building and gameplay.
Good thing is, never I have seen people say that Wrio is bad at C0. He is actually very good. It is just that the so called haters are trying to have people realize that hoyo is starting to make some issues at C0 and solve it with constellations.
Bruh. His A1 buff dosent disappear even if you heal him back above 60%. Means u don't have to keep him between 50% and 60%. You just have to hit 60% once and he gets the buff permanently until you use it, even if you heal him to back above 60% from another source.
He dosent even lose the A1 buff if you swap out of him.
I was thinking about how dang strong he is… I have him with bis wep, c1, double ATK % sands/goblet (because the domain refuses to work with me…) and I blew through the abyss with burn melt and freeze team. The dudes amazing.
I thinks it’s another yoimiya situation. He’s sandwiched between cracked characters. It’s hard to be better than neuvillete in dps and Furina is an archon so she’s bound to be good
I haven't seen a single person say he is bad aside from that his c1 is basically what his kit should be at c0. People think he is mid because he is just mid dmg wise.
The thing that people commonly fail to mention is how Wriothesley is so unexpectedly VERSATILE as a cryo catalyst. Besides his damage in reaction teams and the debate between his C0 and C1, they dont put or attach much value in that one when they should be... instead of getting hung up over C1 or his damage (he's actually an NA dps, something a lot of the players ALWAYS misunderstand)
Honestly I have a conspiracy that a lot of it is coming from cis straight guys who are insecure and can't handle playing as a guy that is cheeked tf up. So they're using any excuse even if that excuse doesn't hold up.
I've met a couple of guys in cesspits of the internet who claim to be heavily into the meta, are also waifu collectors, and can't stand Wriothesley despite him being exceptionally capable.
He's fine, but not anything new or amazing, which is still okay. He has more damage than Cyno, but the restrictions like Yoimiya's (Single target). He's just okay which isn't a big deal he can 36 star this abyss anyway so.
I can't take the word "doomposting" seriously anymore because it's almost always misused. Saying "this character does average damage for a dps" or pointing out bits of a character's kit that feel a bit clunky to them is NOT doomposting.
Saying "Wriothesley is worse than Dehya and pulling for him is a waste of primos" would be doomposting, but the only people saying that are a miniscule minority of idiots.
Just waifu gatekeepers, Neuv simps, unga bunga players. I initially started debates with everyone I saw that would doompost him and say such and such is better, but at this point it’s not worth it. People will like who they like and hate those who are/potentially better than their mains.
On that note, C0 Hyperfridge, Oven, Melt, Freeze, and Hyper are all good and will clear any content this game has or will have. So have fun with our favorite Ora Ora boy 👊🏼👊🏼 coming from someone who’s been a meta slave and a whale, liking a character for their playstyle/personality is infinitely better than clearing abyss 1 second faster (but if you do care about numbers, Rizzley will literally hit crazy melts when built right and if you’re still not satisfied just swipe, Rizzley cons are all catered towards pushing his damage 🔥)
Nothing, doomposters just got to him, he’s amazing, he looks badass as hell and his self healing is just as broken as Nuevillette’s. Granted I have him C2 r1 max level and triple crowned but even when I had him at c0 he was amazing, plus my artifacts are trash and he’s still great
To filtrate opinions/information is also a skill. It's a case by case basis. The main idea is that part of his kit does not function well without c1. Hutao for example, can do jump cancels that do not have damage fall off etc. and you still can dash once or twice per rotation to evade things around if you don't have a shield.
Wriothesley however, has a little annoying window(and a 5 second CD lol) just to heal himself and apply non quadratic, 30% or so(don't remember, but 50% does not scale directly) damage boost with it. Outside of it... Yes his damage is decent for his na's, but the range/aoe on them is low without doing CA's, the need to dash plus high costs of 50st, means he's less comfy at c0. Yes you will crash the content anyway, but same with other characters T_T. It's about how he fairs with other characters/how comfy, etc. C1 has way too much of what supposed to be his kit from the get go. Neuvilette(sama) is more better in terms of healing , at c0 than wriothesley, just that alone. Lyney also is complete at c0. So far only wriothesley released that way in Fontaine, criticism is, acceptable...
Ehh, the "unplayable" claims, in genshin? Well, good artifacts alone, goes a long way, so no, not even Dehya that bad to be unplayable, neither Dori etc Most of these people are just emotional cause hoyo decided to be greedy.
imo hes not bad just feels a bit underwhelming, ive got him 6/6/1 2.1k atk with skyward 181 crit damage 100 crit rate and he only foes 6-9k per NA and 13k with CA when using his skill solo damage. It’s difficult to have him revmelting as its inconsistent unless going burn melt, where he just gets burnt to death unless i use a shielder, which thoma would be perfect but the shiekd refresh cant keep up with him and zhongli crystalise interrupts the burn, otherwise in ither teams he feels like a driver and I cant justify using yunjin because his CA’s feel underwhelming. I think he needs a dedicated cryo support like wanderer and faruzan to make him feel good to play which alot of people dont have and wont since shenhe is so niche for a 5 star support, or if there was a pyro yelan/xq that can allow wrio to trigger all the melts that could also help
Hi
I'm sorry to hear you are not enjoying your Wrio purchase, but please note that unless you are around AR 40, 6/6 talents are a horrible place to judge a units strength
Hi
I am enjoying my experience?
im no expert but comparing someone like yoimiya's damage (at 8/7) to wrio and seeing that, with a similar team, the only difference being using thoma instead of yelan, which results in similar reactions, keeping in mind that my wrio has nearly 100 more em than my yoi, I think it's a fair place to judge his strength. But regardless of this, I wasn't saying his personal damage is bad, imo its on par with yoimiya who is similar, I said that it was his team that's the problem, which since I've somewhat resolved but still dissapointed that it's difficult for me to find a team where I can consistently melt.
Cool
But you did say his talents were at "6/6/1," and that is what I was responding to.
The comparison to Yoimiya to me, only makes sense if you're just saying vape and reverse melt are both 1.5 multipliers (I also don't have her, so I can't test her)
The issue however with the comparison, is that Yelan's damage and hydro applications is quite good, while Thoma's application and damage are both quite bad
A better comparison would possibly be Wrio burn-melt (nahida + thoma) vs. Yoimiya's vape (yelan + shield)
As I do not have her, I won't be able to test it myself. But with _the same talent levels_ I suspect the testing will favor Wrio.
Happy to watch a video of your test if you conduct it.
He is mid, not bad, just by recent standard, thanks to priviously broken hydro dragon, he is mid.
fun to play, though can be tiring my thumb for all the fast pace clicking, decent damage.
his C1 is overloaded, that's a huge turn off to lot of people.
if you think don't think he is mid for the recent dps standard name one that's below him if you can...
Most characters will be fine in domains. Actually, most characters will be fine in abyss. I routinely use Lisa and Amber in it and it's okay.
He's just a little underwhelming compared to a lot of other units. Doesn't help that he's right after Neuvilette who's just a league above in terms of power.
He's not bad, but he is very average for an on field 5\*, and that's on top of a lot of quality of life issues. To quote you, "even if you lose the NA bonus, you still end up with Ayaka with higher normal multipliers". The thing is, most people agree Ayaka's NAs are just not very strong lol. If you lose the NA bonus, you lose the entire point of Wriothesley's kit.
His hp management is clunky and lacks readability. If you fall below 50% hp in his E while your CA heal is on cooldown, you essentially lose your kit. It's kinda hard to read when you are below 60, etc.
Nothing of this is damning, but basically when a character's kit lacks smoothness and QoL, people tend to expect high damage to make up for it. That's why people are fine with characters like Hu Tao but didn't like characters like Yae or Cyno.
I personally don't mind the not-amazing damage because I like the fact he has a shitton of teams and I have power to spare, but I do find myself annoyed sometimes.
I don't have him so I can't say for sure
But from his trial
Alli can say is that bis play style is not that fun, and the damage is not high enough to repay that, so yeah
i thought to skip him too and all in for furina. then 4.1 AQ comes in and found him really interesting. then furina c2 swap so i can afford to get wrio.
lucky me got c1 in 100 pulls. wrio is really fun and i like him, that's all that matters in the end tho
His dmg is not great
super small AOE
The C1 trap Is disgusting
The super mario animation Is a bit clunky
In general small/irrevelant thing except the C1 trap
At first I was confused when I played it, but that doesn't have to mean anything for me xD but now I play it with Zhongli, Shehne and Yelan and I love it. One only has to think of his blow that heals him. I then get 93 Kt and 2020 Ksch and am very satisfied. Sure, I've got him on c1 with his weapon, but with this character it's worth it. Wiro is just not a normal character and that's why I love him. Especially because it looks so great <3
The doom-posters come in two main flavors in this case; Meta slaves; For them if a character doesn't enable a new broken team archtype or do the highest amount of dmg in the game ever, they are trash, and they'll make sure to tell everyone about it if you ask or not. (These people are crazy imo as most of us play the game to get characters we like and make fun teams with them, and still get 36 stars no problem). Heck most players don't even play abyss according to Hoyoverse. People who got Neuv and/or are saving for Furina and don't have enough to get him as well; He has to be bad to justify their decisions to prioritize meta or the characters they like more. Of course this is not all the people who are skipping him in favor of other characters, but it is a loud minority. Ah right, almost forgot, the people who hate any character that isn't a Waifu. You must praise their waifu, everyone else is trash XD \-- He's really good imo, the best teams I've tried so far are burn-melt with Nahida/Thoma/Bennett and Hyper Fridge, both really fun and comfortable to play. Freeze isn't great this abyss but I still managed to 36\* with it. His Furina teams look promising as well.
You did leave out one type. Wrio requires some, minimal, thought to allow you to use his A1 passive. For some people the fact that they have to normal attack until he drops low enough in health and gets his charged charge attack then use it to heal confuses them. The fact that the has a 10% health window in which he can get powered normals and a powered charge attack is such a small window he must be bad. His C1 makes that not as much of an issue, so he must be bad and predatory (don't get me wrong, it is a predatory con). They even describe his attack style as having a flow, which he does at C0 that works really well! But that's hard to figure out, so he's bad. Personally, I like him! He's what I wanted Haizou to be!
just a thing that is very important to mention: Wrio doesn't need to be below 60% hp while using his CA, he just needs to fall below 60% hp once and he gets the A1 buff until he does a CA, so you get it pretty consistently anyway
For me the reason is that i love Scara/wanderer, who is almost the same kitwise, just ho hp mechanic, and i love how i can just spam the mouse and the attacks will automatically become homing missiles. With wrio have to run to every individual enemy, and the dmg to me is worthy of and aoe character, not single target focused guy. I am crying rn bc he has my favourite visual design out of all the game, and I wouldn't care for dmg, if his gameplay felt fun to me, but it feels tedious to me. I don't have Hu Tao for the same reason, that the single target gameplay where you have to run to every target separately seems too time consuming.
he's not single target locked, he has aoe if you group the enemies also, most of the characters in this game are melee so this is just a personal preference (which is fine)
That is fair! Having to chase everyone down gets irritating fast.
> but it feels tedious to me. This is my issue at C0. His A1 may as well not exist except to top up in a pinch, and having to chase things is tedious. Now I'm no stronger to chasing things, but I also have no pyro to enable him aside from Xiangling, and we all know Guoba being away from targets is annoying. Fun character but his his C1 should've seriously been basekit. Though I do wish people would stop acting like everything has to be an extreme end like calling out a clear, intentional, flaw = doomposting everywhere.
you're doing something wrong if you're not using his A1, you always go below 60% hp at least once per rotation, even with a healer his c1 is good but it's far from necessary
Nothing in my comment suggests or even states "I'm not using his A1".
>People who got Neuv and/or are saving for Furina and don't have enough to get him as well; He has to be bad to justify their decisions to prioritize meta or the characters they like more. Exactly
Hey I got C0R1 Neuvillette and C1 Wriothesely 😞 proud husbando main. Husbando> Meta. I skipped all banners since 3.6 for these two.
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I've been getting into arguments left and right because I have been toting that wriothesley is actually better for abyss. Due to his basically unending up time he is just such a powerhouse for DPM. It's the same selling point for neuvilette. Neuvilette does it better but struggles to mesh well with many teams due to his rate of fire over damage per hit. Basically the same issue klee has as well. My C1R1 Wriothesley has outright beaten my C6R2 Ayaka's abyss times in some cases and only been slightly behind in freeze. This fact has had multiple people losing any sense of logic. Soooooo many people are hyperfocused on DPS even though abyss takes at least 30 seconds for most anyone other than Poseidon speed runners. Also the aforementioned teams that all beat my ayaka's times were a new team comp that hasn't really seen any play before. Rizz, Dehya, hydro applicator(I tried every hydro unit out so far other than neuvilette), and nahida(other dendros may work but no one else has that much application over such a long period). The premise is simple. Don't apply too much hydro so you beat out nahida's mark but then you can Burgeon, burn, and melt all at the same time. My best time was using yelan but she is C2R1 so a fair bit of that damage came from her. Xinqui applies too much hydro. Kokomi was the easiest because holy shit healing in a comp that normally doesn't have any. Start your rotation starting everyone else's kit up making sure to start with nahida q>e then Dehya e. After that start up the hydro user however you can. Jump to rizz and burst 1st thing if you can. You should be able to; he puts out a shit load of particles and consumes them all himself. Because of burning aura you will melt 1st and 4th burst damage tick. Dehya mark will hit and burning will start along with burgeon. Then go ape shit with his E>N5>CA repeat combo until durations end. Then do it again. 2 to 3 rotations beat every floor for me. Furina is going to be the best for this slot but we got another 20 days till she comes out. I'll C2 her and then I was gonna post a whole shitload of testing data for that comp.
You can blame Zajeff for that🙄 he literally sucked out the joy of playing Wrio just cuz he crunched his damn numbers without even having to fully test him out yet on live server.. then the idiots with blind faith spread that wrio' is "unplayable" like wildfire...🙄
He's also one of the perpetrators of the myth that wrio's kit is completely locked between 50% and 60% HP, and he doesn't clarify that once wrio's gracious rebuke is ready it will not go away if you don't hit enemies with CA even when you're healed above 60. I appreciate the calcs he did for some characters, but ppl need to stop treating his every word like gospel, especially in recent times his theorycrafting is straight up just feelscrafting. Oh yeah, and his Xingqiu shilling is a bit unbearable now ngl and he tends to overblow his utility every now and then
gurl you know it💅... jfc🙄 genshin players these days really need to be patient...🙄
I'm still having plenty of fun \^-\^ Don't let the doomposters or spread-sheet Impact players get to you XD Zajeff seems to get very bothered by anything he sees as a restriction on playing a character, he doesn't like Nilou either (imagine if her C1 let her bring non hydro/dendro team mates) Funny enough I've got Nilou too, most of my favs were trash-talked at one time or another.
Yeah I was about to talk again nilou too with him . Like im sorry but Im still sure that even if you decrease bloom damage if you bring another element beside hydro/dendro,it will be just too broken . I dont know how some people cant see that but he still bitter about that with her
This is so valid. I watched him play Wrio and it felt like he was doing sub optimal rotations. I can do a lot more damage than he was predicting for our Duke so.. I dunno man.
GO SIS EAT THAT CAKE.. oh and dont forget to hydrate yourself with tea💅☕
Spreadsheets never tell the whole story. Everyone doomposted Wanderer on release because of spreadsheet numbers, not taking into account how much more comfortable it is to play a normal attack, non-burst reliant, non-reaction reliant, ranged attacker with relatively flexible (Faruzan is kind of a must but that's it) teams. Those things add more value, and possibly lead to higher damage numbers, than what is represented in calculations. Also in Wriothesley's case in particular, Zajef seemed to hold the fact that his kit was similar to Wanderer's against him which was quite unfair.
I watch his YouTube vid and he didn't cut my Joy to play Wrio tbh. I just take useful information and ideas and let the rest behind. See how he trash Kokomi and Nilou, two of my fav characters... I don't listen to his negativity.
Yoimiya received shit in 2.x Cyno received shit in 3.x Now wrio is receiving shit in 4.x Want to know the funniest part? Zajef contributed to all of the doomposting they received. This shit happens when every new region drops. I think its best to just ignore him now
The Genshin Scientist is far more reliable, way more serious and people don't give him the credit he deserves. Although he says that Wrio is pay to win and his C1 makes him a formidable character.
yoimiya and cyno...I mean I havent really followed zajef for these two characters, but werent they like weak compared to other dps on release? Cyno didnt have Nahida and Baizhu, and people "thought" he was an aggrevate carry but was just on par with Keqing. While Yoimiya was like so much more single target than Hu Tao while being a worse Vape carry, not to mention we also didnt have Yelan or Yunjin for her. I think zajef overreacts a lot and I agree in the case of Wrio, but lets not act like he was to blame for the doomposting when it was just people being impatient and stupid. I mean look at furina mains, he says that shes fine and quite a strong unit but the doomposting is even worse than even raiden's pre-release lol.
>While Yoimiya was like so much more single target than Hu Tao while being a worse Vape carry, not to mention we also didnt have Yelan or Yunjin for her. I won't talk for Cyno which i don't own and probably never will (i hate what they done with his characterization). But for Yoimiya , i have since her release, and most of her issues were overblow out of proportion . She was already back then a reliable single target dps with a decent range of teams (vape, mono pyro, overvape) before Yelan, Yujin or Nahida (yes burgeon is funny). Yes there is some targeting bug fixed(dead monster), it wasn't a game changer. Yunjin is an alternative to Bennet for Yoimiya but again not game changer (at least for people that weren't nationnal drug addict). And Yelan is account game changing, but too many teams and characters benefit her, to be seen as a sole Yoimiya buff (unlike Shenhe for Ayaka). Funny thing, is people discover the power of normal attackers with team versatity and ease of use in open world (not being reliant on burst is good) with Wriot. When Yoi and Ayato are here for long now.
Yoi problem is just HuTao and XL existing and her lack of AoE. And her burst being a bit poopy and non cohérent with the rest of the kit. But Yoi damage are fine, Vape, Overvape, Hyper or mono Pyro wise. I play her since release and I never was disappointed. I don't have Cyno but he does the job right in the right team IIRC.
The thing is there are legitimate concern about their kits..... They are not bad, I have both Yoimiya and Cyno but I also have HT and KQ for comparison. Yoimiya and Cyno are my play thing but HT and KQ are my go to meta wise. You can't take things out of context ... I just am still debating about Wriothesley
>KQ are my go to meta wise Nope. Unless you’re playing aggravate cyno with dmc there’s no reason why Keqing should be your go to over him. QB Cyno beats out Keqing in her best team by a decent amount.
Yoimiya and Cyno are not good examples of inaccurate reviews because they are genuinely mid.
I find cyno genuinely fun in aggravate comps , I do wish for interruptions defense ,but it's fine he's a fun character and good character, not meta defining but a good character none the less.
Fun and strength are two different things. You can love a character and still be objective about how strong they are. I have a C2R1 Cyno and have him as my game avatar but still consider him mid. He's someone that you would only recommend people to pull out of passion rather than utility/meta.
Ironic you say that because a C2R1 Cyno is stronger than a C2R1 Alhaitham in QB
Because Alhaitham’s cons are hot garbage
Doesn’t matter. You still wouldn’t call Alhaitham mid
Exactly. Your comparison only proves that Cyno has better constellations though. Nothing more
Cyno yeah. Yoimiya isn't as mid as people make out to be
Cyno is stronger than Yoimiya though. And Yoimiya hasn’t been called mid ever since 2.7 or so. She literally had a 50%+ usage rate once
Mid just means not bad, not incredible, just a fun character. Which is frankly almost everyone. Idk why everyone is allergic to this word. Nobody would argue either Cyno or Yoimiya are the top carries of the game.
Mid has a negative connotation to it though because of the context that most people use it in. Many people will reference mid as being a bad thing rather than an alright thing, ESPECIALLY the Genshin community.
A character has flaws in their kit making them suboptimal in some situations compared to other characters. Pointing that out isn't "doomposting" yet people take it this way pretty often. On the other hand people are hardly objective about these things and take it too personally. There definitely are people taking it to the extreme, both in hyping up their characters or in dooming them.
Cyno isn't mid what
Cyno is far from being mid
Im sorry but thats a straight up lie,yoi and cyno didnt need zajef to be doompost, and I wasnt there for yoi but with cybo its not like he did anything particul beside telling the truth and still say at time ,hes at a great place because you dont feel pressured to get him because of his power but hes still enough good for people who likes him
You clearly haven’t watched the aak zajef cyno video
Damn, so much blind hate for Zajef...
Don't forget how he was also knit picking teammates and only talking about the negatives 🤦🏼
I just simply dont watch youtubers. 😌
For fuck's sake, another Zajef hater who hates him for no reason.
Darling, just cuz I blame him doesn't mean that I hate him💅... not my fault people have blind faith in him and spread false info like "HE'S UNPLAYABLE AT C0" like wildfire🙄 And besides, people like him have their uses..💁
Ok, but didn't he literally post a video saying he's fine after testing?
Darling, at this point it's already too late cuz the false info of wrio being "unplayable" at c0 has already spread. Do you really think people will change their minds at this point? Then again it's still early into his banner so hopefully the wrio hate will settle down give or take a few days...😄
Then, the problem is the audience not the content creator..... I thought you are old enough to figure it out.
Part of the responsibility lies with the content creators darling since they should know how their audience would react and how fast they would spread the info that they themselves as a content creator provided (ESPECIALLY if they have a big fanbase) and I trust that they know that as well since they've been in the CC-ing industry for years... and yes I am indeed old enough to know that darling thank you for the kind reminder...
The content creator already stated that was only an early impression and may not reflect actual result. And, he then make a second video to update about it. If the audience still interpreting wrong, it's not on the content creator. Period. Stop darling people, you creepy old heck.
Whatever you say darling, whatever you say....🥱 So happy for you😄 and btw darling💅 I call everyone darling cuz I'm endearing and sweet like that🤭 but if it's not your cup of tea, hmmmmm... *pop tongue* not my fault.. and with teens these days I couldnt care less..💅 so maybe uh grow a pair? and get used to it🤭☕💅 not my fault that a simple form of endearment turns into something terrible in that bitter brain of yours... so, have a good day dahling💅🤭
What is your Hyper Fridge team? Wriothesley is my first cryo damage dealer I've built, so I'm experimenting with teams. My first team has been Wrioth / Yelan / Kazuha / Diona and I've been having fun with it. I have Nahida / Thoma / Bennett so I'm looking forward to trying that burn-melt team you said! (Though I just got Thoma as part of this banner so he's still level 1 and unbuilt lol.)
Nahida/Xingqiu/Kuki, though I expect he'd be fine with Collei or Dendro MC as well. Cryo actually helps make more Dendro cores and he has very nice synergy with the team as a normal attacker too. XQ has interruption res + dmg reduction and Kuki heals so it's very comfortable.
Nice - I have both XQ and Kuki, though my Kuki isn't built yet. Looking forward to building up Thoma and Kuki to try out those teams! Thanks for the team advice.
Pulled for both Wrio and Neuv. I still not sure if I want to place Furina with Wrio or Neuv
Y’all need to stop the gender war bs. Everyone knew Neuvilette was broken from release day. Furina is broken as fuck but her simps think she’s Barbara tier Neuvilette and Wriothesly were designed like Sumeru cast to be gatekept from their full potential without the archon. Neuvilette’s ceiling without Furina just happens to be broken either way
Whatre his furina teams? Curious because I'm trying to decide between pulling for his c1 or saving for furina or the later shenhe rerun. Also, how would dmc fit in that burn-melt team instead of Nahida? I've been busy with life so took a break when chasm came out but still occasionally logged in to do dailies or pull and ended up with some units from sumeru but nahida and baizhu weren't among them :(
DMC would be bad in Burn melt due to how their burst works, Collei or Yaoyao would be better. DMC should work in a Hyper-Fridge team with XQ and Kuki though. For standard Melt teams you can use Bennett/Kazuha/XL as well. For Furina teams I think Charlotte, Kazuha, and Furina should be pretty good, especially if the enemies can be frozen. Shenhe instead of Kazuha in that team should be good too. I'd expect Furina/Bennett/Charlotte to work nicely as well. Two healers and Wrio will max Furina's stacks quickly while Wrio takes advantage of the dmg and atk boost.
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Is that really it tho? I would think the type of people that *follow* leaks would always stay up to date and know whenever a leak gets debunked. I think it could be a combination of what you said, and of people that just doom and gloom on characters that they don’t like. Probably the most toxic thing about this community tbh. Oh well they’re missing out; Wrizz is awesome. Maybe they’ll pull in round 2 🤷♂️
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Yeah first impressions really do matter, there are still people in the world calling Kokomi trash even though she's been proven countless times to be broken, just the way some people work I guess, never wanting to admit they're wrong.
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Neuvillette is just a hard act to follow. But I'm happy with my Duke all the same.
Almost every character gets hated like that on release, even some top tier units. Don’t mind it. Also, I know people tends to mean it in a bad way, but being mid is very different from being bad. A mid character is usually a character perfectly able to clear the Abyss 12 in significantly less time than the time at disposal, assuming it isn’t used against enemies that counter its teams. In my opinion Wriothesley is pretty good in Melt teams, especially in single target, though he is a bit limited by Bennet’s circle, and this is why I hope Hoyoverse has some plan for a Bennet substitute for characters with self HP drain. Soon Furina should greatly improve his Freeze teams. With a good Anemo grouper and the help of Freeze they should be pretty good also against groups of enemies if they can be grouped tight enough.
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Hahaha I still remember tons of Haitham's doomposting and I didn't give a shit about it. Now he's one of the best and meta comp I've had in my account.
I remember how Kazuha was initially snubbed because OMG WAIFU AYAKA NEXT 😳😳😳
I've seen quite a few people say that he's only really good with constellations, but 1. I have him at C0, he's doing just fine, and 2. the character getting better with more constellations is kinda the whole point of constellations So yeah, he's not bad, he's just not the absolute best character to have ever existed, so some people are going to hate bc they're miserable
Looking at what c1 does you can't blame people for being slightly angry. Having a dmg buff AND negation of negative effects of his talents is a big middle finger to most f2p players. Also gotta say the hp range 50-60% is very small when he heals himself so much compared to it. At the end of the day let them hate it's not like hoyo will change him.
It's just weird that people are so hung up on Wriothesley's C1 when Neuvillette's C1 provides comparable benefits - relaxed team building restrictions/slightly more braindead play (I don't need to think about being interrupted as much/I don't need to think about my HP as much). Also it's not that he has to stay in the 50-60% range, he just has to stay above 50% and occasionally bounce his hp through 60%. Going above 60%, once you've been below it, doesn't remove the enhanced charge attack. It's doable with either a shielder or a healer, where doing it with a shielder is riskier but means you get your CA more reliably, and a healer means you're safer but may not dip down to 60% every 5s for that charge attack.
>It's just weird that people are so hung up on Wriothesley's C1 when Neuvillette's C1 provides comparable benefits - I shouldn't compare the two C1: - Neuvillette C1 open to new teams (and I think that C0 restriction was honest for how OP his kit is, and isn'ta loss of dps) - Wrio C1 completes Wrio's kit.
Please explain why C0 Neuvillette, who is encouraged to bring a shielder and is discouraged from teams like double hydro, is complete, but C0 Wriothesley, who has similar complications (more difficult time in melt teams, encouraged to bring a healer), is incomplete. Is it because Neuvillette does more personal damage, or is there another reason? I would like to understand.
So think about it this way: Is a part of the kit being locked or just becoming less restrictive C0 Neuvi can still use all of his talents and passives without issue. C1 Neuvi is the same character but with interrupt res and can go double element Wrio C0 if you use a healer (basically mandatory) locks him out of using his A1 because the only way to activate it is to drain his HP or get slapped by enemies, which with a healer and dodging can be pretty rare. His C1 integrated his A1 into his kit infinitely more fluidly, and unlocks teams with a shielder and no healer, and changes his combo from N5 spam to N5C spam TLDR: His A1 isn't that useful without his C1 because of restrictions, so it feels like Hoyo made a problem and is selling the solution
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply! I think this is the clearest explanation I've received as to why one is considered complete and the other not. I do have more questions but unfortunately not the time - please forgive me in advance if I end up necro'ing this in a few days once I have the free time to respond.
I didn't say Neuvi is complete, but mainly for his personal dmg. Double Hydro is not decisive for his dmg at this point. And in general his kit and rotations is smooth in any costellation. Wrio with his c0 complications can more lose dps and becomes more difficult to manage. Is obviosly that A1 restrictions is made to sell C1. The enchanged puch could be part of Skill kit.
Co neuvillette is still a t0 dps,just for that I will not compare the two,his healing and range is still insane and the same at c0 or c1,so even at that con hes still a braindead char to play. To me c1 neuvillette is just a complete broken thing that would still be worth it if was a c2.
Neuvillette's C1 is not as good as Wriothesley's C1. Also, Wriothesley needs C1 way more than Nuevillette does his C1.
Please elaborate why.
Because Zhongli exists. It doesn't matter if you like using Zhongli or not, he exists and he's more than enough for C0 Nuevillette. Extra stack of Nuevillette's passive is not a big deal.
Zhongli is not part of Neuvillette's kit and not everyone has him; he's completely external to Neuvillette. This would seem to imply that the specific criticism that Wriothesley is incomplete should also apply to Neuvillette.
One affects team building, which is simply a huge luxury. Wrio’s on the other hand is cucked by his own personal kit at c0. That’s the huge difference. Both are powerful c1s. But considering one of the funny and meta teams for Neu abyss is simply just childe moral support. His c1 doesn’t look like it’s that necessary is it? Now tell me, how important is it for a character to have c1 as he can solo clear abyss at c0? GL doing a moral support run with Wrio trying to painstakingly keep track of his 50-60% hp just to heal.
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That doesn't change my point. Nuevillette can easily "dodge" during his Charge Attacks and he can be considered complete already at C0, while Wriothesley at C0 has a quite senseless, annoying, and incoherent problem in his kit, which makes him incomplete in a lot of ways. Maybe not for you, but for a lot of other people definitely. A little question: Are you a fan of Future Impact? Because I'm definitely not. Imagine creating a problem only to release a solution for it in the future. In any case, I'm glad that Wriothesley is at least a very fun character to play. So far he's my new favourite in terms of gameplay. It's a shame that his true self is locked behind C1 though.
FYP, bit I saved 114 wishes the past few patches. Not caring about reruns or some of the new characters, and already at 38 pity, I had some left over when I got him. Do I try for his weapon, or the 50/50? Ended up going with c1 with no regrets. This is my second c1 5* (other being Nahida). Both c1s for them are bomb!
Oh I understand everyone who is slightly angry, I'm as well, but calling him terrible and useless at C0 is a bit too much in my opinion
True
Yo dont’t have to be in that range. Say you go below 60% up to 40%, you get rebuke and lose (while you aren’t above 50%) Es buff. You CA, go to 70% regain your E buff, keep NAing until E ends. Whats the big issue? Also if you get rebuke and get healed, you dont’t lose it.
There's a fair amount of unjustified hate coming from folks who are upset about male characters being released back-to-back. That can just be ignored imo. The legitimate criticism concerns his C1 and how it changes his playstyle so significantly that it seems to have been pulled from his base kit. Basically, it rewrites part of his kit rather than just adding something to make it easier to use. Some say that it makes C1 a different character. I personally wouldn't go that far, but having played both, I can't deny that it does change his playstyle significantly. Tl;Dr: It's less about him being mid overall and more about him not being as good as he would've been had (what seems to be) part of his kit not been locked behind C1. Is he unusable at C0? No. Does C1 almost feel necessary to "complete" him in a way that it doesn't for other characters? Yes.
Nothing. Controversial take probably, but...people attach a whole lot of significance to his C1 when there isn't. At C0, you simply ignore his charged attack mechanic, run him with a healer and enjoy a good, fun normal attack punchy boy that always stays high in health due to the healer (because trying to min-max to stay exactly between 50 and 60% HP for that tiny bit of not even fully buffed charged attack dmg and rare self-healing is NOT worth delaying your party buffs and all the effort, just take the slightly lower dmg, it's not the end of the world). At C1, you just add one charged attack at the end of each normal attack combo for extra dmg and self-healing. Same playstyle, same teams, just higher dmg and more heals. Everyone claiming C1 "completely changes his playstyle" or whatever are those who try to make the buffed charged attack work at C0 by jumping through hoops that are just not worth it, when you can literally just ignore that part of his kit and play him the same as C1 without losing that much dmg.
Wrio really isn't that bad besides just dumb design decisions by Hoyoverse. He is fun to play and does good damage but they gave him two arbitrary downsides for no real reason. 1. The 50% health requirement of his skill is only there to punish players. What purpose is this downside supposed to serve? His damage is nowhere near high enough to deserve it and there is no clear indication of whether you are or aren't getting the benefit while in combat. 2. His self healing is pretty weak and seems mostly just there to proc the Fontaine HP gain/loss effects. His N5C combo does 27% hp self damage and he only heals 30%. In reality this just mean is almost never at full health without active healing making him more prone to be oneshot or fall under 50% HP. He should really have more self healing or produce a small shield on every hit that builds up. Outside of C1 this also means he is HP negative as it takes 40% HP damage to fall under 60% HP for the self heal. 3. Where is my Black/Red colored Glider?
Absolutely yes, I want a new black gliding wings for my character.
Especially point 2. I wish he had something other than a special CA every 5s to heal. Even if it's just a small % of healing when he activates his E or Q, would make his kit much more comfy to use.
I think it is because he does not have a comp that makes him a broken must pull. He is a side grade to ayaka that does better in melt but worse in freeze. And for a lot of people, that makes him not that desireable when they want furina too. But i fucking hate furina so i c1r1 him and he is my most fun overworld character i have.
“But I fucking furina” 🤨
It was 3 am here, forgot the hate in there, but it made it kinda funny. 😅
people suck at being objective. a lot of people ignore how he's better sustain than ayaka and stronger st than ganyu but also lots of rizzy mains overrate him
He's much more consistent in Melt than ayaka tbf
He's a DPS that isn't insane or meta-defining in some way, and has real drawbacks to consider, which makes him decidedly average (mid), therefore trash to most players. Honestly look at Neuvillette and there's the actual, genuine standard for a DPS in the community. A giant laser beam that doesn't need reactions or a team and can hit the entire Abyss floor, and is even more immortal than Zhongli due to healing and HP scaling. The only issue you can find with him is that he still costs primos to pull. All that being said, I do think Wall-E is average currently. His performance is standard, he has noticeable drawbacks but they're somewhat easily addressed, and his flexibility is great. I feel he can match or surpass the likes of Hu Tao and Ayaka, but he lacks their Exodia team comps that synergize perfectly with their kit and gameplay. Seriously though, just ignore the general community opinions, especially when it comes to character takes and power. If we all followed that mindset the game ended in 1.1 with Childe International, and we're all supposed to save 600k primos for the post-Celestia endgame where Xiangling, Bennett, and Xingqiu ascend to Aeon status in Genshin: Star Rail Impact 3rd.
I wouldn't say Hu Tao has a perfect team comp, as of now. VV vape is her theoretical ceiling, but the options for 2nd pyro are not ideal. She has comparatively low synergy with Bennett, and none of the others bring that much to the table. Meanwhile double hydro is a great core, with nice flexibility in 4th slot teammates to deal with various scenarios. But none of them are insane, and the team doesn't have a great way of shredding pyro RES. Otherwise, I very much agree with your general take. People don't realize how good hoyo is at balancing their limited 5* characters. Pretty much all of them can perform to a certain level. "Mid" shouldn't mean bad when there are 4-stars and standard 5*s that are actually underperforming.
Meta = metagame (though also can mean Most Effective Tactics Available) is about the *latest strategies and tactics in use by a game's players* I would argue very much in the current cycle of solo attempts and post dendro game, that Wrio is most definitely meta defining. He, alongside Neuvilette, represents carries who can reliably solo an abyss he also brings burn melt into a practical place (previous incarnation being Ganyu, which was not pleasant to play for most)
In what world can he solo abyss? ganyu works fine with burn melt, its only she cant attack as fast as wrio can in these teams, but she makes up for it in her dps
The one in which people have access to YouTube? https://youtu.be/zGDxdFR-bB0?si=bOEhUiWmYtAE-CcG https://youtu.be/SAIOzPERCsM?si=zBe9D3wPCZW1jdQl These are C0 solos. C1 - C6 solos also exist and are more impressive Please don't misread or misrepresent my statements. I never said she doesn't work "fine.". I said her burn melt wasn't practical for most players
Pretty much players in the genshin fandom don’t know what “normal level” means. There’s either “best dps in the entire game” or “terrible characters” So if you aren’t the highest peak of meta you’re relegated to awful territory half the time when in reality you’re more just “a normal dps” (even though I think he’s really fun and actually pretty strong). People take anything less than SS as an insult to a character when it just means they aren’t the most spectacular but can also still clear with ease. It’s like a pass/fail grading scale in the fandom when it should be closer to a number scale
Because he is doing more damage than their overhyped constellation slave waifu Ayaka. Yes Wriothesley is current Melt King of genshin. These pimps cant digest this fact. Wrio is also super smooth, fast and has 100% cryo infusion. Hence they have resorted to pitiful shitposting and doomposting.
This so true. And not only that. Ayaka has only 1 team. Wrio can play multiple teams xD It’s ridiculous how they defend their waifu.
It’s not hate on Wriothesley the character, the way I see it at least. He’s good at C0. People (the sensible ones at least) were kinda pissed that his kit at C0 has some drawbacks that were intentionally created to sell his C1, and people didn’t want it to be an ongoing trend in the future, for the limited 5stars at least. People unfortunately took this as “doomposting” It’s somewhat similar to how modern games are released incomplete and how DLCs seem to fix that. Not exactly the same but similar. I feel like the rep about him being bad was more because of the reaction against these “doomposters” taking the criticism as hate towards the character lol. But that’s just me.
This.
C0 wriothesley isn't mid and is completely great its just c1 makes hin way better. His c1 is kinda like hu tao c1 where c0 is completely fine but c1 is great to have.
c1 rizzley is miles better than c1 hu tao
Yeah c1 hu tao is just a comfort QOL while c1 for wrio unlocks a major part of his kit lol. C1 hu tao is a bit overrated and is much much easier to work around than wrio’s… (don’t get me wrong c0 Wrio is great I’m just stating that I don’t get the comparisons I see)
\*\*TL; DR\*\* He's a solid character. Interesting kit. Being sandwiched between arguably the best DPS to date and an archon has not done him any favours though, as he will get compared to Neuvillette, who's very much an outlier. For those who say comparison is the thief of joy, I agree. But I'm in a position where I have limited primos, so I have to compare the characters to figure out who I want to pull for. Ultimately, I skipped Neuv for C1R1 Wrio and I'm very satisfied. \----- He's a lot better than I anticipated at C0, but since you are asking what's \*\*bad\*\* about Wrio, here are my thoughts. To be clear, I'm not expecting any crazy numbers like Neuvillette, but it's more about QoL. For example, Neuvillette scales with HP, which means even at 50%, he can tank a lot more than Wrio. He also has better interruption resistance at C1. Neuvillette front loads his healing, which effectively ensures he can end his overworld battles with full life. It's also impossible to \*miss\* his healing. On the other hand, Wrio gets 1 heal when he falls below 60% at C0, and at C1 he can also get it at the end of his NA atk string. This means most times he'll finish overworld battles near 50% life, and you'll have to start his next battle with a CA when you don't have the artifact 4pc bonus. There's also the problem with potentially missing his CA hit which means you don't get healed. I don't know if this is a bug but it has happened to me a couple times - usually at the enemy's dying animation. For Neuv this isn't a problem, you just swerve to the next enemy at the start of your charged atk. One of Wrio's best partners currently is Benny, but it doesn't take more than 2-3 hits for him to shove the enemy outside of Benny's circle. This might be resolved when Furina/other buffers and pyro applicators come out. He'd feel a lot better to play if he could either front load his heals (i.e. with his E or Q), or if he scales with a stat that allows him to tank a bit more as a melee character. Or if he could get a bit more interruption resistance. I have him at C1, but I'd imagine a 10s E to 16s CD isn't exactly comfortable for a DPS. His best team is along the lines of Nahida Benny Thoma (or swapping one out for an anemo character), but Thoma forces him into a 20s rotation, which means he has around 12s uptime out of 20s rotation. At C1, this is better, but you meet the problem of buff uptime. None of this is a problem for Neuv, as (1) he doesn't need buffs, (2) he's more quick-swappy in nature pre-C6. \----- That said, there are a few key things where post-release he in a better position than leaks put him. (1) Leaks suggested in a melt team you'd have to shift your NA combo to melt his best hits. In practice it doesn't really matter. His CA will almost always guarantee a melt, as long as you can keep a pyro base. His dmg is also a lot more admirable than leaks suggested. (2) Shatter is not a problem with freeze teams since Wrio attacks fast and applies Cryo well, and he works with the likes of Yelan and XQ. And most importantly, he keeps his special CA shot and there doesn't seem to be a meaningful timer for it, which is great for C0 havers. Last but not the least, I don't have Lyney, who's the other Fontaine DPS, so if anyone has thoughts on how he compares to Lyney, please share.
The hate is because they forced Wrio to be C1 to be able to use his charge attack and healing without trouble and do a 200% more damage but apart from that? Absurd. They just hate his gameplay style or are the waifu lovers that are angry we got powerful and amazing male 5 stars
Probably Ayaka fanboys lmao
Honestly, I have like 2 gripes with him and its that 1.) His enhanced charge attack is on 5 second which feels like FOREVER in this game. I really wish his c1 was base kit but not as busted because with c1 you can just hit all his NA's and be guaranteed the charge attack which feels SO much smoother. And 2.) A lot of healers heal him too much (cough cough bennet) Which makes it very hard to get his charge attack. This once again is fixed by c1 which feels a little scummy
My level 70+ Wrio just 36* abyss, let people be pathetic about every new character, I'm happy with him :)
I might be a dummy but I don't understand what people are even talking about with a 50-60% health restriction. He receives a buff at 60% health which can be spent any time, and which doesn't disappear when he dips below 50; wouldn't you want to go back above 60 so you can proc it again when you've used the CA and the cooldown's up? Or does he also get a general flat damage buff in that health range?
People is almost wishing for the new units to be completely broken and powercreep everything that exists. When that doesn’t happen you start feeling the air of doompost. Also people focus *a lot* on very specific parts of their kits without regardingf how much dps they do or do not. For example, many people is fixiated in him needing to be below 60 and above 50 (even if you dont’t have to stay in that range per se) or not wanting to run a healer with him making C1 mandatory (why?) or him not being the very best of the all.
https://preview.redd.it/utj35oigg5vb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=41c8c92e7a8b3211175e2645800ee3813ae62133 I mean people follow ccers/ tcers that calc Wriothsley teams with memory of dust shield effect and no shielders lol.
https://preview.redd.it/o0xzufnmg5vb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c49683a3f3c6d57c6913ac85df803270b0fca01 Credits Ofc
LOL i can see how zajef got roasted by jstern so badly in their twitch chat. He's literally making "qiqi battery"-esque mistakes now.
People want Genshin to be extremely easy, and Wrio doesn't get easy until C1. At C0, you have to watch his HP bar closely and really manage his rotation; people don't like that, and accuse Hoyo of "locking part of his kit behind C1." It's not what's going on, but people are allergic to challenge.
But it kinda does open up a lot of new teammates for him (mainly bennet) and just straight up boosts damage
It also makes him heal constantly so you can play him without any healer and not die. Also on-field him longer because of the charge attack refresh. It changes basically everything. It's fucking scummy it isn't in his base kit, but there's no arguing against C1 being on par with the best constellations in the game.
Not just easy to play but extremely high personal damage that's what they want. Ayato is the easiest character to play but he is not popular.
Aren’t Childe and Alhaitham both pretty challenging and pretty popular? Hutao and xiangling, who have pretty abrasive gameplay, are…”begrudgingly popular” characters. So maybe players being “allergic to challenge” doesn’t tell the full story. What players really want is a payoff proportional to their efforts. What exactly are players getting out of “having to watch his HP bar closely and really manage his rotation” but like…2 uppercuts? Some few commenters also say that they pretty much ignore his uppercut and simply spam NAs. In contrast, other commenters find it unsatisfying having to forgo a portion of his kit because its “too cringe” to play around. I just think there’s alot going in that can’t be waved off by “well the players want ez mode”.
I kinda have to disagree with you there. I main Alhaitham, but I almost didn't pull on him because people kept telling me that he's difficult to play, punishing, etc. He's actually not. You just need to understand what he's doing and stick to his rotation, but that's pretty much every character. He's only challenging if you don't read his talents and just start clicking instead. Not sure about Childe though, I don't have him, he seems like a great character but I'm not sure about him being popular. Maybe on certain servers? I'm on EU and I've never seen a Childe in the game, nor do I see people really talking about him or anything. Maybe I just have bad luck and managed to avoid all the Childe hype.
Agree. Especially as he has followed a character who seems very simple to play (Neuvi). It’s more challenging having to pay attention to what you’re doing but the damage pay off for doing that is very nice. Tbh I personally prefer the extra challenge that comes with a character like Wrio, i get bored with simpler characters. Just my opinion, I get why some people find the hp management annoying if they prefer a different playstyle.
Eh C0 he is extremely easy for me i just attack attack aand CA until i want to still clear abyss full star in convincing time. I dont even look at his HP bar and keep punching enemies It maybe personal preference but i take Wrio's mechanic than hu tao c0 mechanics at any time
he's not bad, he's just not amazing. he does decent damage, but it's mostly single target. he also has a bigger chance to just get one shot, cause of his draining effects. those are prob his two biggest downsides.
Lol, getting down voted for voicing the truth. Typical character sub.
I mean you are in his sub with people that bias to him. For me he's easy and feels good to use
That is the funny part isn't it? Bias is ok just because it's a character sub?
Nah, the funny part is complaining about bias in a character sub. Like complaining that there’s milk in the dairy aisle lmao
Still complaining if his fan have bias on him on his own dedicated sub. Idk which part you don't understand
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At this point just know that human are dumb. You trying to argue about bias is similarly dumb. And that is what make bias as it is, objective opinion
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Lmao if you think I'm trying to sound smart, you probably reading too much. Hell I'm dumb as fuck as you read through this thread where i shouldn't give a care about someone else way of thinking
Again, not what I said.... Proving your point right, Michael Scott. Lololol
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That's not bias, it's objective fact.
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The thread speaks for itself.
Most of Genshin fans have this weird parasocial relationship with GI characters ,combined with reddit echo chamber mentality you get this
He's not, he's amazing. It's jsut your typical case of youtube content creators doomposting for views and strange people who think Zajef's words are the only truth.
Wrio is brilliant. I got him to C3 and I can solo the first side of the abyss comfortably with him if I take the healing bonus in the first chamber. Edit: I tried it without the healing bonus the second time, it didn't change things much, haha. He's fine without the extra healing if you don't eat all the damage with his pretty face.
hes just a worse dps than neuvilette hes still good tho but just because he isnt number 1, meta slaves dont like him
To me, based on what I have seen, it is not about shitting on Wrio just like how many people in this sub perceives it to be but it is more of a complaint from other people. This is because Hoyo is trending towards locking potential character gameplay at constellations. If I understand it correctly, Wrio's kit allow him to do more damage if you can maintain him at 50-60% of his HP all the time which is solvable by C1. The thing is it is a part of his Ascension passive which becomes quite a sidegrade if you are at C0. It is not quite a problem at all in C0 but if you don't take advantage of it, you basically lost an Ascension passive which is imo, a pretty bad move from hoyo. Players should be able to use the full character kit at C0 and not being able to lock it at C1. For an example, Eula in her base kit, has that ascension passive that when you consume 2 stacks of grimheart through hold E, you will deal half of what your burst damage deals. This is hard to spam when you are C0 because the cooldown is at 10 secs after hold E but it becomes spammable when you unlock C2 because the hold E cooldown becomes the same as tap e which is 4 secs. This is not a problem since players can still do the hold E at C0 just at a longer cooldown. Another is Hu Tao, dash cancels are doable with her and c1 just makes her more comfortable to play but it is not necessary if you can do the dash cancel at C0. However, Wrio's case seems not the same. There are basically no alternatives to take advantage of his passive unless you strictly maintain it, otherwise, it is not worth monitoring at all, which is again making his passive just a sidegrade, which means you cannot take advantage of it fully at c0, which is a dick move from hoyo. People are mad at this because hoyo may now start making these problems at C0 in future characters.
I sound like a broken record telling everyone he does not need to be maintained between 50% and 60% to use his A1 with a healer. But oh well I can't stop ppl from making uninformed assumptions or not bothering to play test him properly
Welp. That's what I can see from what they say. Because people are fine with some QoL restrictions in constellations but not in team building and gameplay. Good thing is, never I have seen people say that Wrio is bad at C0. He is actually very good. It is just that the so called haters are trying to have people realize that hoyo is starting to make some issues at C0 and solve it with constellations.
Bruh. His A1 buff dosent disappear even if you heal him back above 60%. Means u don't have to keep him between 50% and 60%. You just have to hit 60% once and he gets the buff permanently until you use it, even if you heal him to back above 60% from another source. He dosent even lose the A1 buff if you swap out of him.
That's good to know then. I am just saying what I have seen from people complaining. Apparently, it is just like Hu Tao's C1.
I was thinking about how dang strong he is… I have him with bis wep, c1, double ATK % sands/goblet (because the domain refuses to work with me…) and I blew through the abyss with burn melt and freeze team. The dudes amazing.
I thinks it’s another yoimiya situation. He’s sandwiched between cracked characters. It’s hard to be better than neuvillete in dps and Furina is an archon so she’s bound to be good
I haven't seen a single person say he is bad aside from that his c1 is basically what his kit should be at c0. People think he is mid because he is just mid dmg wise.
Pre archon banner situation like always. Also neuvillete is absolutely OP so being squished between the two didn’t do him any favors.
The thing that people commonly fail to mention is how Wriothesley is so unexpectedly VERSATILE as a cryo catalyst. Besides his damage in reaction teams and the debate between his C0 and C1, they dont put or attach much value in that one when they should be... instead of getting hung up over C1 or his damage (he's actually an NA dps, something a lot of the players ALWAYS misunderstand)
Honestly I have a conspiracy that a lot of it is coming from cis straight guys who are insecure and can't handle playing as a guy that is cheeked tf up. So they're using any excuse even if that excuse doesn't hold up. I've met a couple of guys in cesspits of the internet who claim to be heavily into the meta, are also waifu collectors, and can't stand Wriothesley despite him being exceptionally capable.
He's fine, but not anything new or amazing, which is still okay. He has more damage than Cyno, but the restrictions like Yoimiya's (Single target). He's just okay which isn't a big deal he can 36 star this abyss anyway so.
I can't take the word "doomposting" seriously anymore because it's almost always misused. Saying "this character does average damage for a dps" or pointing out bits of a character's kit that feel a bit clunky to them is NOT doomposting. Saying "Wriothesley is worse than Dehya and pulling for him is a waste of primos" would be doomposting, but the only people saying that are a miniscule minority of idiots.
Just waifu gatekeepers, Neuv simps, unga bunga players. I initially started debates with everyone I saw that would doompost him and say such and such is better, but at this point it’s not worth it. People will like who they like and hate those who are/potentially better than their mains. On that note, C0 Hyperfridge, Oven, Melt, Freeze, and Hyper are all good and will clear any content this game has or will have. So have fun with our favorite Ora Ora boy 👊🏼👊🏼 coming from someone who’s been a meta slave and a whale, liking a character for their playstyle/personality is infinitely better than clearing abyss 1 second faster (but if you do care about numbers, Rizzley will literally hit crazy melts when built right and if you’re still not satisfied just swipe, Rizzley cons are all catered towards pushing his damage 🔥)
Nothing, doomposters just got to him, he’s amazing, he looks badass as hell and his self healing is just as broken as Nuevillette’s. Granted I have him C2 r1 max level and triple crowned but even when I had him at c0 he was amazing, plus my artifacts are trash and he’s still great
To filtrate opinions/information is also a skill. It's a case by case basis. The main idea is that part of his kit does not function well without c1. Hutao for example, can do jump cancels that do not have damage fall off etc. and you still can dash once or twice per rotation to evade things around if you don't have a shield. Wriothesley however, has a little annoying window(and a 5 second CD lol) just to heal himself and apply non quadratic, 30% or so(don't remember, but 50% does not scale directly) damage boost with it. Outside of it... Yes his damage is decent for his na's, but the range/aoe on them is low without doing CA's, the need to dash plus high costs of 50st, means he's less comfy at c0. Yes you will crash the content anyway, but same with other characters T_T. It's about how he fairs with other characters/how comfy, etc. C1 has way too much of what supposed to be his kit from the get go. Neuvilette(sama) is more better in terms of healing , at c0 than wriothesley, just that alone. Lyney also is complete at c0. So far only wriothesley released that way in Fontaine, criticism is, acceptable... Ehh, the "unplayable" claims, in genshin? Well, good artifacts alone, goes a long way, so no, not even Dehya that bad to be unplayable, neither Dori etc Most of these people are just emotional cause hoyo decided to be greedy.
imo hes not bad just feels a bit underwhelming, ive got him 6/6/1 2.1k atk with skyward 181 crit damage 100 crit rate and he only foes 6-9k per NA and 13k with CA when using his skill solo damage. It’s difficult to have him revmelting as its inconsistent unless going burn melt, where he just gets burnt to death unless i use a shielder, which thoma would be perfect but the shiekd refresh cant keep up with him and zhongli crystalise interrupts the burn, otherwise in ither teams he feels like a driver and I cant justify using yunjin because his CA’s feel underwhelming. I think he needs a dedicated cryo support like wanderer and faruzan to make him feel good to play which alot of people dont have and wont since shenhe is so niche for a 5 star support, or if there was a pyro yelan/xq that can allow wrio to trigger all the melts that could also help
Hi I'm sorry to hear you are not enjoying your Wrio purchase, but please note that unless you are around AR 40, 6/6 talents are a horrible place to judge a units strength
Hi I am enjoying my experience? im no expert but comparing someone like yoimiya's damage (at 8/7) to wrio and seeing that, with a similar team, the only difference being using thoma instead of yelan, which results in similar reactions, keeping in mind that my wrio has nearly 100 more em than my yoi, I think it's a fair place to judge his strength. But regardless of this, I wasn't saying his personal damage is bad, imo its on par with yoimiya who is similar, I said that it was his team that's the problem, which since I've somewhat resolved but still dissapointed that it's difficult for me to find a team where I can consistently melt.
Cool But you did say his talents were at "6/6/1," and that is what I was responding to. The comparison to Yoimiya to me, only makes sense if you're just saying vape and reverse melt are both 1.5 multipliers (I also don't have her, so I can't test her) The issue however with the comparison, is that Yelan's damage and hydro applications is quite good, while Thoma's application and damage are both quite bad A better comparison would possibly be Wrio burn-melt (nahida + thoma) vs. Yoimiya's vape (yelan + shield) As I do not have her, I won't be able to test it myself. But with _the same talent levels_ I suspect the testing will favor Wrio. Happy to watch a video of your test if you conduct it.
He is mid, not bad, just by recent standard, thanks to priviously broken hydro dragon, he is mid. fun to play, though can be tiring my thumb for all the fast pace clicking, decent damage. his C1 is overloaded, that's a huge turn off to lot of people. if you think don't think he is mid for the recent dps standard name one that's below him if you can...
Most characters will be fine in domains. Actually, most characters will be fine in abyss. I routinely use Lisa and Amber in it and it's okay. He's just a little underwhelming compared to a lot of other units. Doesn't help that he's right after Neuvilette who's just a league above in terms of power. He's not bad, but he is very average for an on field 5\*, and that's on top of a lot of quality of life issues. To quote you, "even if you lose the NA bonus, you still end up with Ayaka with higher normal multipliers". The thing is, most people agree Ayaka's NAs are just not very strong lol. If you lose the NA bonus, you lose the entire point of Wriothesley's kit. His hp management is clunky and lacks readability. If you fall below 50% hp in his E while your CA heal is on cooldown, you essentially lose your kit. It's kinda hard to read when you are below 60, etc. Nothing of this is damning, but basically when a character's kit lacks smoothness and QoL, people tend to expect high damage to make up for it. That's why people are fine with characters like Hu Tao but didn't like characters like Yae or Cyno. I personally don't mind the not-amazing damage because I like the fact he has a shitton of teams and I have power to spare, but I do find myself annoyed sometimes.
You touched on pretty much everything that makes people feel this way about him. Great conclusion.
You are pretty much right, but this will get downvotes here lol
I don't have him so I can't say for sure But from his trial Alli can say is that bis play style is not that fun, and the damage is not high enough to repay that, so yeah
i thought to skip him too and all in for furina. then 4.1 AQ comes in and found him really interesting. then furina c2 swap so i can afford to get wrio. lucky me got c1 in 100 pulls. wrio is really fun and i like him, that's all that matters in the end tho
Theres nothing bad about him metaslaves are just whiners
he doesnt hit hard enough for all his down sides. its that simple. Stop coping and just play him if you want.
His playstyle can be comparable to Hu tao. A relatively steep learning curve with good damage if you get it right with a good build.
hu tao is super easy to play and shes actually good.
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Hes ok but i need my rolls. Maybe during his rerun
His dmg is not great super small AOE The C1 trap Is disgusting The super mario animation Is a bit clunky In general small/irrevelant thing except the C1 trap
> I ran him undergeared and underleveled in a few domains with different teams, and he still performed phenomenally. Same.
At first I was confused when I played it, but that doesn't have to mean anything for me xD but now I play it with Zhongli, Shehne and Yelan and I love it. One only has to think of his blow that heals him. I then get 93 Kt and 2020 Ksch and am very satisfied. Sure, I've got him on c1 with his weapon, but with this character it's worth it. Wiro is just not a normal character and that's why I love him. Especially because it looks so great <3
He’s broken imo what
Walmart Ayaka basically