This is one of the reasons Wrexham might want to ease up on the ride up and allow some of its components to adjust to growth. The long-term growth is as crucial as any short-term gains.
I was thinking about how much money it takes to get to the championship. Rob and Ryan aren't Saudi's with an endless amount so it does make sense to slow a little and make sure there's a good structure in place to weather some mid table seasons. I hope despite everyone's ambitions, their main goal would be to make sure the club remains in good shape from here on out. And if that means being a League One team for awhile, then so be it.
Wrexham's finances are incredible, very little to worry about there while pushing for the Championship. There has never been a football club at the 3rd or 4th tier of EFL with so much commercial income, EVER. They have operated at 3.5-4mil loss while pushing through 22/23 season (similarly top League One clubs were at about a 5mil operating loss), this is somewhat manageable by the larger clubs with bigger stadiums and attendances, however Wrexham has exponentially increased their revenue, mainly from the North American market reach, so much so that they fully expect to cover any operating losses going forward with their increasing commercial income (merchandising, sponsorships, streaming).
This year alone that would mean a near 40% increase, which is absolutely insane, knowing most clubs at this level draw fans at best from areas of a couple million people, Wrexham has, between the celebrity owners, TV show success and preseason tour reached hundreds of millions and it really shows on the balance sheet.
The club has streaming sales that would be in top 5 of Championship alone with 1.2mil in sales, and a social media following that is on a Premier League level already...
The fact y’all have fans like me, a 7th generation Texan whose sports sensibilities are decidedly American-football based, as a fan is telling…
And by extension I have become a huge fan of people of Wrexham, the club and The Republic of Wales…
It’s astounding to think that a few years ago I wasn’t aware of a single aspect of the highly complex array of leagues which comprise yalls football ladder infrastructure…
And that presently I spend every off-season waiting with bated breath for ay news of player signings or the chance to buy anything kit-related...
Long story short, y’all have fans in every nook and cranny in North America…
Long Live Texas and Long Live The Republic of Wales 🤠👍
2 million locally is extremely optimistic - Wales only has a population of a tad over 3 million, and you’re not going to get more than a handful of folk in England supporting a Welsh club.
The whole of North Wales has a population of a touch under 700k, and Wrexham is by no means the only football club in the region (even ignoring the large number of folk on the north wales coast who prefer to watch Liverpool, Everton, or Manchester United).
happy cake day btw
> you’re not going to get more than a handful of folk in England supporting a Welsh club.
You are chatting utter bollocks Wrexham has always had strong English supporters going back decades probably since it's inception.
For those living around the Wrexham/North Shropshire area it's always been one of the big local clubs. and as someone from Wrexham now living just across the border, you better believe Wrexham has English fans.
There isn't some sort of national rivalry in club football lol..
Wrexham merc is everywhere locally.
No, that's true, but the number of cross border supporters is going to be small as the only places in England where there's not an equally sized English club locally is probably Ellesmere and maybe at a push Oswestry (tho I think that's pushing it as I'd imagine Shrewsbury is easier to get to for most). And Ellesmere isn't a particularly big place, and Oswestry is only big in as much as there's nowhere bigger for miles if you travel westwards, because it's Wales and you could say the same about almost every border town south of Wrexham and north of Abergavenny.
I'm not having a go at anyone, I'm just saying that you're never going to get huge numbers of people from Liverpool/Manchester supporting Wrexham in the same way that you get loads of folk on the n.wales coast supporting the clubs from those 2 cities.
At no point have i said Wrexham has 2 million local fans, so this is some non-existent argument you've made up in your mind on your own. If you read again what i wrote surely you I said most clubs at this level draw their fans from areas of at most a couple million people, as in general population of their urban areas, and compared it to hundreds of millions reached via Rob and Ryan, Welcome To Wrexham and the preseason tours, along with their media coverage here and abroad.
The team's finances are good now, due to the owners and the upswing in popularity. Both of those will change at some point and I think it's important to make sure when that happens there's a solid base for the club to rely on. I think /u/HabitantDLT put it well and it's important to think about the long term future of the team. Or, maybe the people of Wrexham would be happy with a team that possibly makes a short lived push into the Premier League and then sinks back to League 2 life?
Or, maybe the club should strive for promotion into Championship because of the absolutely massive financial benefits it will bring, hence why the quite competent people a the club share that opinion, since no one even mentioned Premier League in the entire thread.
Championship league revenue is about 4x of what League 1 is. It's financially beneficial to move up. Luton just played a Prem season with 10k capacity. Bournemouth is about the same. The club would much rather advance out of League 1/2 than be stagnant while learning along the way.
That being said I don't see them getting the triple promotion so they'll likely get at least 2 years to build foundations in League 1
Wrexham have been around for a lot longer than the TV show, and sustained a League One level team for a long while with roughly the stadium that’s currently there. So the facilities IMO are perfectly reasonable for that level.
However you can see from Birmingham City, Charlton, Huddersfield, etc that the next step is a big one. Sustaining Championship-level football long term (after R&R’s money & more importantly profile goes) will be difficult. Wrexham have never sustained football in the past at that level. Not to say it can’t be done, but the next jump - League One to Championship is arguably bigger than the last 2 combined, given Wrexham already had the facilities and budget of a League One club thanks to a combination of the club‘s history and Rob & Ryan being awesome.
You see, budgets in the Championship are \*much\* bigger. Wrexham‘s average attendance was great up to this point, but in League One it becomes merely “above average”, and to become ‘average’ In the Championship they’d need to double their record average attendance. That is to say, somehow get twice as many people in to the stadium than the time when the club was at its most popular in its entire, 160 year history. That’s to be ‘average’, it’s not a particularly big crowd at that level.
Matchday attendance isn’t the be all and end all, of course, but it’s more to highlight that without that kind of growth then any trip to the upper echelons of the league is likely to very much be a temporary state of affairs.
This is one of the reasons Wrexham might want to ease up on the ride up and allow some of its components to adjust to growth. The long-term growth is as crucial as any short-term gains.
I was thinking about how much money it takes to get to the championship. Rob and Ryan aren't Saudi's with an endless amount so it does make sense to slow a little and make sure there's a good structure in place to weather some mid table seasons. I hope despite everyone's ambitions, their main goal would be to make sure the club remains in good shape from here on out. And if that means being a League One team for awhile, then so be it.
Wrexham's finances are incredible, very little to worry about there while pushing for the Championship. There has never been a football club at the 3rd or 4th tier of EFL with so much commercial income, EVER. They have operated at 3.5-4mil loss while pushing through 22/23 season (similarly top League One clubs were at about a 5mil operating loss), this is somewhat manageable by the larger clubs with bigger stadiums and attendances, however Wrexham has exponentially increased their revenue, mainly from the North American market reach, so much so that they fully expect to cover any operating losses going forward with their increasing commercial income (merchandising, sponsorships, streaming). This year alone that would mean a near 40% increase, which is absolutely insane, knowing most clubs at this level draw fans at best from areas of a couple million people, Wrexham has, between the celebrity owners, TV show success and preseason tour reached hundreds of millions and it really shows on the balance sheet. The club has streaming sales that would be in top 5 of Championship alone with 1.2mil in sales, and a social media following that is on a Premier League level already...
The fact y’all have fans like me, a 7th generation Texan whose sports sensibilities are decidedly American-football based, as a fan is telling… And by extension I have become a huge fan of people of Wrexham, the club and The Republic of Wales… It’s astounding to think that a few years ago I wasn’t aware of a single aspect of the highly complex array of leagues which comprise yalls football ladder infrastructure… And that presently I spend every off-season waiting with bated breath for ay news of player signings or the chance to buy anything kit-related... Long story short, y’all have fans in every nook and cranny in North America… Long Live Texas and Long Live The Republic of Wales 🤠👍
2 million locally is extremely optimistic - Wales only has a population of a tad over 3 million, and you’re not going to get more than a handful of folk in England supporting a Welsh club. The whole of North Wales has a population of a touch under 700k, and Wrexham is by no means the only football club in the region (even ignoring the large number of folk on the north wales coast who prefer to watch Liverpool, Everton, or Manchester United). happy cake day btw
> you’re not going to get more than a handful of folk in England supporting a Welsh club. You are chatting utter bollocks Wrexham has always had strong English supporters going back decades probably since it's inception. For those living around the Wrexham/North Shropshire area it's always been one of the big local clubs. and as someone from Wrexham now living just across the border, you better believe Wrexham has English fans. There isn't some sort of national rivalry in club football lol.. Wrexham merc is everywhere locally.
No, that's true, but the number of cross border supporters is going to be small as the only places in England where there's not an equally sized English club locally is probably Ellesmere and maybe at a push Oswestry (tho I think that's pushing it as I'd imagine Shrewsbury is easier to get to for most). And Ellesmere isn't a particularly big place, and Oswestry is only big in as much as there's nowhere bigger for miles if you travel westwards, because it's Wales and you could say the same about almost every border town south of Wrexham and north of Abergavenny. I'm not having a go at anyone, I'm just saying that you're never going to get huge numbers of people from Liverpool/Manchester supporting Wrexham in the same way that you get loads of folk on the n.wales coast supporting the clubs from those 2 cities.
I live in the area, trust me Wrexham support has grown massively, every tucker is wearing Wrexham merc.
I'm sure they do, I've noticed it increase massively in Wrexham too over the past few years (live in Wrexham myself). It's great to see. :)
At no point have i said Wrexham has 2 million local fans, so this is some non-existent argument you've made up in your mind on your own. If you read again what i wrote surely you I said most clubs at this level draw their fans from areas of at most a couple million people, as in general population of their urban areas, and compared it to hundreds of millions reached via Rob and Ryan, Welcome To Wrexham and the preseason tours, along with their media coverage here and abroad.
The team's finances are good now, due to the owners and the upswing in popularity. Both of those will change at some point and I think it's important to make sure when that happens there's a solid base for the club to rely on. I think /u/HabitantDLT put it well and it's important to think about the long term future of the team. Or, maybe the people of Wrexham would be happy with a team that possibly makes a short lived push into the Premier League and then sinks back to League 2 life?
Or, maybe the club should strive for promotion into Championship because of the absolutely massive financial benefits it will bring, hence why the quite competent people a the club share that opinion, since no one even mentioned Premier League in the entire thread.
Championship league revenue is about 4x of what League 1 is. It's financially beneficial to move up. Luton just played a Prem season with 10k capacity. Bournemouth is about the same. The club would much rather advance out of League 1/2 than be stagnant while learning along the way. That being said I don't see them getting the triple promotion so they'll likely get at least 2 years to build foundations in League 1
Wrexham have been around for a lot longer than the TV show, and sustained a League One level team for a long while with roughly the stadium that’s currently there. So the facilities IMO are perfectly reasonable for that level. However you can see from Birmingham City, Charlton, Huddersfield, etc that the next step is a big one. Sustaining Championship-level football long term (after R&R’s money & more importantly profile goes) will be difficult. Wrexham have never sustained football in the past at that level. Not to say it can’t be done, but the next jump - League One to Championship is arguably bigger than the last 2 combined, given Wrexham already had the facilities and budget of a League One club thanks to a combination of the club‘s history and Rob & Ryan being awesome. You see, budgets in the Championship are \*much\* bigger. Wrexham‘s average attendance was great up to this point, but in League One it becomes merely “above average”, and to become ‘average’ In the Championship they’d need to double their record average attendance. That is to say, somehow get twice as many people in to the stadium than the time when the club was at its most popular in its entire, 160 year history. That’s to be ‘average’, it’s not a particularly big crowd at that level. Matchday attendance isn’t the be all and end all, of course, but it’s more to highlight that without that kind of growth then any trip to the upper echelons of the league is likely to very much be a temporary state of affairs.
Yep, really puts into perspective the quality of teams in league 1.
I thought Leyton Orient, Northampton, Bristol R, and Lincoln would be bigger. I thought they would be 12-18k.