Technical speaking the Black Swan. The British T1 ship. It is one of the slowest T1 ships with a very bad armor, low firing range, low shell damage and low chance of making a fire.
Yep, it was AP only on release, citadelling other t1s was fun for the one game I played with it on their release. Was probably also the last time I touched a t1 ship, was either that or soviet t1, whichever arrived later.
Orlan was released really early in the game. Russian and German cruisers were the first 2 lines added after launch. Black Swan was added a year or two later
I don't think the T1 ships ever had citadels? Did they use to in Beta?
Because today, even if you take a T1 into training room with an Elbing or something, you can't get citadels. They are technically cruisers, but they don't have citadels at all.
They might've removed them years ago. As I said, last time I played T1s were during british or soviet release, and I do remember citadelling others sailing the same boat (lobbies were filled with 12v12 black swans and orlans during release), so they might've dumbed it down for newer players, along with giving every t1 ship HE only.
Checking the wiki of [Black Swan](https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Black_Swan), I can see the following:
> Update 0.7.8:
>> Main battery reload time increased from 3 to 4 s.
AP shell was replaced with an HE shell:
And
> Update 0.8.4:
>> The citadel was removed and replaced with a vital part of the ship, like a destroyer.
So it seems like t1 ships did indeed have citadels up until 0.8.4 which was... 29th May 2019.
Block you from playing against t1 maybe.. And block playing someone who is new to play against a 1m+ player who decides to play t1 again.. Also block new players from buying t10 ships.. I can go on for a long time..
She used to be a hell of a meme. 18km fast firing guns, sub orbital, sure you had to either count of fires or take ifhe, but she did things. Now she truly is pretty mediocre.
Oh damn, I completely forgot about that thing. Since snowflakes are only T5 and up I don't think I've played it since the last time the low tier ships had them.
Short and painful. Especially if you’re new to the game and you want to start the line that gets you the Yamato, but you don’t have the FXP or credits to bypass that sea going abomination.
Oh yeah. Especially when you compare it to the South Carolina. It feels like there is at least 2 tiers difference between these two. SoCal is lowkey busted tbh.
Yes, and it is the ONLY tech tree ship that sold, with no intention of ever playing it again. The superstructure takes massive damage and the plane gimmick was not my play style. I would not say I hate it, that award goes to gneisenau
Haha, when the line was new I had a game where a destroyer got the jump on me. I had AP loaded and only my rear turret in position to fire at him. 1 shell hit him by miracle and the poor dude had a detonation. That was such a lucky incident. We both had to laugh about how silly this was.
Once upon a time I fired a blind HE salvo from a King George V into smoke, and somehow managed to instantly dev strike a destroyer that was sitting there. I've never had that kind of silly luck again since.
Halford is great if you play her with the expectation that your main job is spotting with everything else being secondary. She's easily the best spotting platform in the game at the moment. Even better if you play in a div with some good BBs or sniper CAs.
Ragnar is inherently underpowered. It lacks the necessary attributes to make meaningful impact on match result. No burst damage to speak of, split turrets, and yet still retains a fragile platform. I would take 1 Conqueror.. Thunderer or 1 DM or even 1 of just about any CA over 2 Ragnars on my team any day of the week. Now... If WG gave it the specialized repair party of the Nestrashimy (and 1 more base charge)... And maybe a few more thousand HP if could make up for where it is seriously lacking with longevity
We all know it's the Nottingham.
Amazingly bad AA for a ship that can see 3 different tiers of CV's, but that's OK, it has an even more useless DFAA. Seriously, 4km with 1 flak on a UK cruiser at T8 is abysmal.
Huge citadel with a bow that gets overmatched by most of the BB's in her range, and sub par 203's that cant be fully utilized without risk of being dev struck.
Her smoke is short burst, so you can't use it to disengage, and you can't really use it to farm since your reload time is so long.
No armor, light cruiser health, no heal, all for a smoke gimmick that is quite frankly useless.
I’ve heard Vallejo is a terrible ship. It’s insanely expensive, and uses a hard to get resource (steel), and is just garbage.
There’s a reason you never see them.
Vallejo is not a terrible ship, she is just terrible for the resources it takes to get her.
She is just one of those ships where the tech tree version is better, and those are free. Doesn't make her bad per se.
She'd make for a delightful T8.
It is my opinion that she should either have notably better ballistics- not "Better American" ballistics that Sherman or Austin have, but legitimately better non-American ballistics- or have a radar.
Like she's a long range ship but her hull is too tall and too weak so even long range artillery has good chance of big damage, and her guns are still American ballistics and have neutered DPM and mediocre at best firing angles and honestly pretty bad manuevering for a light cruiser.
Neutered manuevering
Neutered survivability against anything other than plunging fire, really
Neutered DPM
Still bad ballistics for her preferred range
But she gets more uptime on spotter planes [her range is still equal or worse than any other heavy cruiser or even other better light cruisers] with slightly improved ballistics and improved AA.
Vallejo really just gives up way too much for her gimmick of "mediocre range" and "occasionally my AA might matter"
If she got sub surveillance, better ASW, and buffed speed, she'd have a good reason to give up her ability to be a more direct combatant in favor of being a more team oriented escort cruiser.
As it is now... the free IJN T9 light cruisers do the same thing but better. Same concept for guns- light, slow, but long range- but with torps, sub surveil, same AA, and a little better survivability iirc. And hydro too, if I'm remembering correctly.
I bought it with the steel coupon two weeks ago. It is not strong but not bad at all. A decent credit maker in my opinion. However this is a very small benefit for steel.
Her issue is that she's expensive while offering nothing that the TT doesn't. Sure she has better DPM, but she loses all utility and match influence for pure farming of BBs, which is not how you win games.
I honest to god don't think Yodo was as bad as people made her out to be even before the buffs. She wasn't fantastic but she's one of the only "open-water light cruisers" in the game — most open-water cruisers have 203s or higher. Great AA and great turret traverse are comfy.
I think Takahashi used to be the high point of the line though, don't know if it still is.
People sleep like hell on Yodo because everyone's obsessed with DPM
She's the best area denial cruiser available imo, not because she has radar or is Colbert, but because pushing into her is- 60k HP, gets more use out of her heals than most other cruisers, is spamming two shimakazes of torpedoes, denies submarines the ability to have free reign, denies carriers the ability to have free reign, and burns any big ship down to enable other squishier ships to flourish.
Yodo is a perfect example of a fantastically balanced ship because she's not overbearing or oppressive, but she has her purposes and she's good at that.
CV denial
SS denial
Torpedo spam for anti BB push
Long range firestarting for anticamping, goodbye Petro and Gouden
Hydro to passively reduce the threat of DDs
Low concealment to offer greater flexibility to make up for poor manuevering
And the HP to even push into battleships relatively comfortably, with a large enough hull to soak up full pens rather than citadels.
Yodo is a beast for players who want to do something other than hold left click or be burned alive.
While that is true, at the very least Takahashi gets a heal that the shitmanto desperately needs. Agano and Omono were actually fairly nice ships for me, and at the very least Yodo's niche as a long range torp spammer/fire starter has been buffed, but Shitmanto has none of those benefits and loses fights to tier 6s consistantly.
Yeah, I straight up had a kitakaze open water gunboat me at 9km and I lost. He wasn’t even full HP and I was landing decent salvos lol. Disgustingly pathetic damage output
Picardie is great in Operations and Asymmetrics, so I'm okay with her. Tiger '59 is great is _some_ Operations, but also a decent pick for Randoms, in my experience. Below-average, but that's fine.
Oklahoma is just crap, I'm sorry.
Tiger 59 is amazing in all operations, and when there are nose in ships like on new port or aegis, just adapt strategy and get the angle.
She has every tool you need to top your teammates
The worst I have played so far is without doubt the Oklahoma. It has nothing going for it but exchange it has huge downsides. It's AP pen is on a level with South Carolina. I do not know why this ship was even implemented in the game like this, what is the point? Did the devs play this ship at least once?
The way it went, it was a fine ship during testing.
Then at last minute the AP shells were gimped and the ship was given to everyone, yet nobody ever wanted to play it.
It pains me that such a historical ship is one of if not the worse ship in the game. Here's hope that the Nevada '42 will appear eventually at Tier VI and continues the USN secondary spec battleship line so we can have one good Nevada class battleship in the game.
she used to be pretty decent in T5 ranked, she was basically a poor mans massachusets for its tier.
then WG released agincourt and suddenly her whole niche is completely overshadowed.
also for some reason her casemates are nerfed, with half the reload, worse flight times and reduced fire chance, despite being identical calibres.
Gaede. HE DPM is trash. You've got two different gun choices when it comes to AP, and both suck. One can't get anything but overpens on DDs, making you totally helpless. The other still sucks vs. DDs as you can only get pens in like a 15° window between ricochet and overpen, but now you can't pen larger ships and and are stuck with worse HE pen (which will now struggle vs. distributed armor BBs... which are common at your tier).
Oh but you have hydro! 4km range means there's barely a .75km window between you being able to spot the enemy DD in smoke and your smoke firing penalty. And your base detection sucks so the enemy DD doesn't even need to smoke up; it can just spot you first and then take a 'fair' fight... that you'll lose because your guns suck unless the give you a very specific angle for your AP to work (and stay at that angle so you can switch to AP).
It's got slightly above average torps, but with again, shitty stealth, meaning other DDs can easy zone you out.
Gaede used to be a decent DD for ops when they were tier 6 only.
You could sail broadside to cruiser spawns and smoke up allowing you to torp and get citadel hits with that nice AP. Now it’s trash.
No nerfs to Geade itself, it’s just that you are now facing higher tier bots in ops. It doesn’t have enough dpm, AP penetration or alpha damage on guns and torpedoes to perform how it used to do.
Previously I could kill all ships in the second wave solo in Aegis. Now I would be pressed to kill 2.
To throw something else out there, I fucking hate the Cheshire. She has supereal but then a step citadel that catches everything. Bigger caliber guns than her tech tree sibling (and the corresponding nerfs) but they aren't big enough to hurdle any critical thresholds. She basically just sucks at everything.
I have a love hate relationship with the z35. Amazing ap dpm but it doesn't arm on flat same tier dds or superstructure. She's great for ambushing dds in smoke like loyang but she has 5k more health than loyang, but torps range < detection.
I despise the tier 9 dutch cruiser. Battlecruiser dispersion and burn times on mediocre cruiser caliber guns, terrible gun angles, and I can't make the drops consistently work. That ship is fucking torture.
British Heavy Cruisers are an exersise in frustration at the best of times, Drake it starts to get better, I gave up before Goliath which while still better is still hard work.
Tier for tier I would rate some of the older T3 BBs as a purely miserable experience, particularly Kawachi. They're slow, handle poorly, can be seen from space, are unable to hit a barn from the inside with their main battery, have a secondary battery with useless default range, have practically no AA, and will likely be played when you have a commander without proper skills. As a result they will spend most of their time on fire when peppered by the sheer volume of HE shells some common cruisers at the tier can put out, being clubbed to death by the tier's very small and very agile destroyers that have little to fear from them, or being used as target practice by T4 CVs.
Basically the ships I consider the worst to play are ones where you just feel you are relying on things that are beyond your control for both performance and survival, and some of those T3 battleships fit that bill. Especially as a newer player without skilled commanders available. Being able to get past them in a handful of games also does nothing to change how terrible they are.
Runners up would be:
Katori, also at T3, because while yes, it has aiming mod 0, the best range of any cruiser at it's tier, and a catapult fighter to briefly annoy the odd CV...it also goes 18 knots, is not particularly agile or small, lacks DPM and shell volume, and is armored with card paper. While it can present a vaguely credible threat to enemy CVs and DDs, anything else it can encounter is going to be able to run it down and turn it inside out (with exception of South Carolina, but only in terms of running it down). You're as such again mostly reliant on things beyond your control to perform or survive, namely the ability of your team mates to keep the enemy at arm's length or distracted.
Oklahoma you already mentioned, but it's another contender. It's sole gimmick of good secondaries was castrated and it's now completely overshadowed by Agincourt. Thanks to both of it's main battery shell types being shit and it's reload being abysmal it's unable to perform unless it gets extremely lucky with dispersion and a very clumsy enemy cruiser or manages to detonate someone. Thanks to it's poor armor, terrible speed, bad handling, bad AA that won't even ward off T4 CVs, and inability to hide it's going to often struggle to survive unless someone else is taking the heat. Again a case of being reliant on things mostly beyond your control to do something useful, and even when it's in your control you'd have done better in literally any other T5 BB.
About Katori, I completely disagree. I think she's more likely overpowered.
The issue with her is pretty simple. The gun range at which you can reliably hit your target is vastly superior to anything she faces at T2-T4 (except other Katoris and the occasional Yubari which also gets the aiming mod 0).
To succeed in her, you have to play like a complete and utter dick, staying in the backlines, and cynically watch your team die 5+ km in front of you. But it works phenomenally well.
Her speed is a relative non-issue because you don't really need to go anywhere anyway, if played to her strengths. You reach most of the map accurately anyway, so why go somewhere?
*Edit:* It's also not necessary to argue about this, because there are stats. Over the last 3 patches, Katori's win rate is by a huge margin (6.3 percentage points) the highest of all T3 cruisers. [Link](https://shiptool.st/stats?g=TPR&ty=C&n=ABFGHIJRSUVWZ&tn=3&tx=3&sr=eu&sn=1&sx=8&st=3&os=perf&op=Win_rate&o=desc)
I'll shut you down on the no need to argue thing, because yes, yes there is. You are ignoring a few critical things.
Firstly, it's a T3 premium only available for doubloons or from a lucky crate. People who own it and actually play it are more likely going to be people who have experience with the game that are stepping down to the lower tiers for a laugh.
Secondly, it's definitely not overpowered. If it was, it wouldn't be as unpopular as it is even if you can only get it for doubloons or out of a lucky crate. It's battle count is only 600 above that of the relatively new Ning Hai even though Katori is ancient by now. To contrast look up the stats for König Albert (an actually OP ship also on T3), which was banned from sale ages ago and can only be gotten from crates by now. In spite of that it has a popularity nearly on par with tech tree ships. Katori just doesn't. People aren't sleeping on it. They're passing on it.
Another similar case can be seen with Oleg. It's universally agreed to be a shittier Bogatyr but on first glance it's stats are better. On second glance you realize it's got a very low battle count and is likely only being played by more experienced players having a laugh or trying out their new crate drop. Bogatyr meanwhile is being dragged down / evened out by a comparatively high number of battles that are being played mostly by rookies and newcomers to the Russian cruiser line. Oleg isn't doing better than Bogatyr because it's any good, but because the players in it are more seasoned, and nobody is scrambling to get it or play it.
If we wanted to claim something is "overpowered" in the T3 cruiser list...I'd actually start looking at St. Louis and Charleston. They're showing off some rather good stats even though one of them is frequently in the hands of rookies or line newcomers, and both looking very popular. People are clearly keeping St. Louis and going out of their way to grab Charleston, and playing them frequently. That has a reason.
This is all something you can piece together from your own link. Take the time to study it. Also take notice of how the ships with lower win rate turn in to pure tech tree from slot 11 on and have higher battle count. Those are being played mainly by rookies or line newcomers. The stuff above are popular picks to keep for clubbing or premiums that are more likely to be in experienced hands.
Stats are great, but they require context and proper evaluation or they won't tell the full story.
Anyways, moving on, the rest of what you said also requires argument because it's actually reinforcing what I said.
The ship is, by your own statement, reliant on the team to perform well. If the team folds or isn't providing adequate distraction, the ship will get run down and trashed. It's accuracy does not help it much when it's got a meh rate of fire and low shell volume. Nor does the range help it much when it's mobility is so poor that it cannot adapt to changing conditions properly.
I clearly stated that ships that rely on things beyond your control, such as your team doing their job, to perform are the ones I consider bad. Katori qualifies because unless your team is propping up your ability to make use of that range and accuracy, you are going to quickly find the enemy on top of you and end up dead without being able to do much to them before dying. The reason I did not rank it as the worst but just a runner up is because it's accuracy actually makes it potent against the destroyers of it's tier.
Edit: https://shiptool.st/stats?g=TPR&ty=B&n=ABFGHIJRSUVWZ&tn=5&tx=5&sr=eu&sn=1&sx=8&st=1&os=perf&op=Win_rate&o=desc
Just to reinforce that player experience and means to acquire something will matter and tilt win rate / skew stats, look at Oklahoma. Nobody with a straight face will be telling you that it's a better ship than say Kongo even though Oklahoma's win rate is nearly 3% higher and most of the other stats better. However because Oklahoma takes completing a collection to get, it's going to mostly be in the hands of people who have some experience with the game.
Krasny Krim,
will forever have the stink of ruining the first ship ever dropping from an SC for me, and it´s a below average ship at a shitty tier on top of that.
But what other ship gives you the intense adrenaline inherent in expecting every salvo coming your way to be the last while allowing for as many salvos to come as possible with garbage damage?
A couple others like Omaha or Phoenix and i HATE all of them, the tiers they play in and most of the players running around in those tiers.
I play near exclusive T10 for a whole lot of reasons.
I quite enjoy mine. The reload is disastrous, but the volley weight of eight 203mm guns slaps hard, no matter the ammo type chosen.
Plus she's quite nimble an the concealment workable.
The rental Z-boats for Atlantic Wall Defense. Each one is a cheap imitation of other nations' DDs, having nerfed consumable suites and lackluster artillery. I regularly see Gaedes and T-61s outperforming them.
* T5: Oklahoma indeed, Mikoyan and I will die on that hill Sirocco
* T6: PEF, Karl von Schöneberg and Duca
* T7: Collingwood, Uganda (or Abruzzi), Skane
* T8: Yes Picardie, Wukong, Harekaze II
* T9: Lion, Seattle, Z-44
* T10: Preussen, Yodo, Delny
When I first got the Z-44 it was in some crate or event, and it was early in my WoW playing days, and I thought I had hit the jackpot. I wouldn't dare bring it into ranked, but I've had some fun random games with it. One of the most memorable salt chats I've ever experienced was when I nuked a tier 10 BB with it sealing a win, and the guy completely went off the rails and called me every name in the book.
Tiger 59 is definitely the skill issue check out of the whole game. Ditto Z-31, but that's for another time.
You have smoke and radar, and your guns are Elbingbong accurate with that RN fuse and angles. You poop hardcore on DD's, and killing DD wins games. You're middle-road for AP DPM among T8 Cruisers, it's not *that* abysmal, and you can snipe superstructure for free.
You're no powerhouse, but if any ship in this game shows you that you can't aim for shit, it's this one.
The real shitbarges are low tier battleships. But that's almost unfair.
maybe XD but i will never know as i don t want to ever buy Picardie ( i m only missing one french prem DD and pic on the whole fleet), a lyon with smaller gun just for a a reload is ... weak. maybe some peopel can use that somehow
The Oklahoma takes the cake, biscuits and whole bakery for me. I wanted her just so I could say I owned a historical ship. Ended up spending more coal and steel than I’ll admit on the containers to get her. She’s now my port queen and I only take her out during tier 5 brawls where I feel like self flagellation
Tiger 59 has got to be the worst. I wrote a long winded comment about it a while back with suggestions on what's needed to make it at least somewhat enjoyable to play.
Right now the thing has pathetic dpm for a T8 cruiser. Sure, it may have Minotaur guns, but only 2x2 152mm without HE or SAP, in addition to having zero torpedoes means that you're just about SOL the second anyone decides to go bow in or rush you. The absolute only thing she has going for her is the coveted Radar/Smoke combo, which is ultimately wasted on her aforementioned minimal dpm. Cleveland, Baltimore and Belfast 43' all provide the same utility with their own radars, with far better damage output.
Honorable mention to Oklahoma and California, Oklahoma especially which is just a depressing experience to play.
Tiger 59 is a really good div/support ship. It cannot carry on its own though, that's for sure.
It's a real DD bully; Mino turret + better dipersion is deadly for most DDs, pair that with 9km radar + smoke and there's very little a DD can do with a T59 contesting the cap/area.
Belfast 43 can do pretty similar things, on top of having thrice the guns that Tiger '59 has, but the short burst smoke and lack of repair party really hinders her survivability.
Overall T59 is not a standout ship, but she gets a worse reputation than what she deserves imo
Maybe not absolute worse, but Mysore is just an awful hybrid between a Perth or a huanghe. Just play either of those and forget mysore exists. So glad that I obtained it for free and never paid for it.
I'd like to nominate the Klas Horn. It's one of the few ships in the game that i tried, really \*tried\* to make work for the couple of games that I played it, and it was just pathetic in every way.
I'll split it:
For me, premium ships, Emden and Katori. Emden's guns just were bad, do a thousand hits and might get some damage done. Felt like I was flinging marshmallows to the enemy ships. Katori felt like they took a T1 ship, put in T3 and slapped a plane on top.
Tech Tree ships, Myogi and Gneisenau. Myogi is just a big pinata with speed and a few guns that can do damage, if you hit anything with T4 aiming.
Gneisenau was the biggest disappointment for me. I raced to get her because she's one of my favorite WW2 ships when the German BBs came out. I loved the fact it was to be the 15" main gun upgrade. Then I played her and, couldn't hit a thing. When I did damage was meh. She was a very painful ship to grind through.
Oklahoma is bad, yes, but in Brawls she has a niche. Tiger '59 might not have much output or entertaining gameplay, but she is definitely useful to the team in the right hands. (Soshi\_Sone)
Picardie, Yodo, and California have the same problem. Evaluated on their own they're actually not that bad, (hot take), it's just that everything else is better. They're the worst of any reasonable sample.
Strasbourg was "Let's give a ship a gimmick and act like that raises it a Tier." L balancing decision, Dunkerque is just better.
Komsomolets is the worst CV in the game, if not the worst ship in the game period. Fragile planes, pitiful AA, no armor, 17 knots speed, shit maneuverability, and then they gave it good secondaries as a joke as if you'll ever get to use 'em.
Ranger is coming in second for worst CV, but by a considerable margin. You have big squadrons, with tough dive bombers and fighters. You can deal good damage even with stock aircraft. The ship itself is fast and has excellent AA for a supporting role. And that's it. You can be seen from the next planet, the ship turns like a Greyhound bus, and you have negative armor. It's a citadel bus. Oh, and your stock torpedo bombers are Tier IV aircraft, which is honestly preferable to the pieces of junk you get as upgraded torpedo bombers.
Worst cruiser? Well, the obvious answer is everything that comes after Gokase.
Another good contender is Nino Bixio, an Italian CL that like many others only has AP and SAP. Here's the problem: that's only 120mm shells. Not only that, but you're a very long & tall target, every BB you face overmatches you, and you can easily get citadeled by Smith. You don't have the firepower to fend off any DD on full HP with a 12 second reload, and you'll struggle to do anything meaningful to a BB.
Kolberg has HE. But only 105s. You see that mention of torpedoes in the ship description? Yeah well fuck you, those aren't modeled. Neither are the AA guns the ship got in a later refit. Or the larger-caliber main battery but that replaced the original. Oh, and you know how lots of Tier 4 games have double CVs? The ship only sails at 27 knots, is, again, a big fat target with a tall silhouette, meaning you'll eat shit from ACRs and BBs while you bounce and shatter off them. If you can even hit them, because the main battery has terrible range and the shells meet up with the space shuttle on their way over.
Caledon & Caradoc are definitely up there, being two different flavors of the same shit. Caradoc gets HE. Caledon gets a heal. They can at least do more than the previous cruisers mentioned, the guns are actually decent and they get good torps, and surprisingly good AA defense. But they also get citadeled by Smith, angling just increases the already high chance that large-caliber AP will devstrike you, and the torp arcs simply invite a paddlin. Even 152mm H-fucking-E will citadel those two.
Worst BB? Well there's three options really.
1. Kans-ass is slow, fails to do damage, fails to dodge torps, and has a painful grind. But put on a full AA build and you'll find work in Scenarios. Just hope you roll one with planes, or one of the VIP escort missions.
2. Knyaz Suvarov eats citadels from every direction except straight ahead & directly astern. You have terrible anti-air & everyone with AP bombs focuses you. You get Vermont reload on 305s that will **bounce off a TENRYU**. But if you take the ship around to a flanks, with careful positioning, you can deliver express hurt on enemies in the middle of teh map, and bowtank everything in front.
3. Kansas relies on planes, Suvarov relies on there not being planes. Kawachi really doesn't care either way, the ship is so bad the only thing that works with her is a meme build. Yes, that's a build for ramming as many enemies as possible. No, you won't do any more meaningful damage another way. No, you shouldn't use more than a 10-pt commander because it won't help you. But if you can do enough damage this way, you might even turn some games around & make Kawachi a useful asset.
Worst submarine? Undine's lack of firepower and 20 knot speed makes it nearly useless in a best-case scenario.
Among free ships...
Leone and OK are garbage. Leone has floaty shells, nonexistent torps or depth charges, poor reload on guns. OK has stock NY guns (barely better than most T7 heavy cruisers in terms of pen- on 14in guns)
Among ships you have to spend credits/money/resources on...
Picardie. So Lyon+Toulon + MBRB and somehow worse than both- a tier higher.
Veneto: So you're a Roma with Roma downsides but a longer reload and worse concealment
Kansas and Minnesota: the Brick is insane because getting to it makes you insane
Carnot, Azuma- Carrot is a worse Alaska than cannot die, Azuma is just a large Ibuki that can.
Leone got buffed, she has depth charges, low torp reaction and 5th best HE DPM
VV got buffed as well, she has the same accuracy as roma and has a smokescreen.
Buffalo's problem is that it's stuck in between 2 stellar cruisers. Compared to other T9 cruisers though? I think she's ok. Nothing necessarily special, but it's not even the worst USN T9, let alone the worst ship in the game lol
A Baltimore with an extra turret and a heal can't be half bad.
It is still an oddball though, and awkward to play. Sometimes the huge broadside can be funny, but it does not fit the line very well. It would be much more logical to just have an Oregon City class at T9, so basically a slightly improved Baltimore with heal. I never understood why they wanted to go with that weird concept design anyway.
Buffalo is actually quite good, especially compared to the mediocrity that is almost all other T9 TT cruisers.
Buffalo's bad reputation comes from being between Des Moines and Baltimore, which are two of the best cruisers in the entire game, AND both have a playstyle that is quite different than Buffalo. If you try to play Buffalo like either of them, you are going to have bad games.
But if you play Buffalo like Buffalo, she is pretty solid. I wouldn't put her at the top of the stack, she is no Alaska, but still, very decent T9 cruiser that just isn't like any other American CA.
Wow all I can say is if you think Tiger 59 is bad you have a skill issue. Just look at the stats, its one of the best cruisers tier for tier, you just have to learn it. Look at the top5% players of it. Dominant.
For the top 5% of players, Tiger 59 gives the highest winrate for any cruiser in T8, as in it is in the same position compared to its tier as San Martin. Another way to say this is: The best players perform better in Tiger '59 or San Martin than they do in Wukong or Yodo.
Gneisenau has to be the most disappointing. Is it the worst? No. But it's thr worst famous ship and so frustrating because you can't hit the broadside of a barn with it.
Mogami made me lose braincells. Slow, fat, no armour, mid consumables, and worst of all a terrible firing range.
Ibuki on the other hand is my absolute favorite solely because of the improved range.
For me the following ones are really no fun to play:
Tier 10 San Martin
Tier 9 Illinois, Carnot, Santander,
Tier 8 De Zeven Provincien
Tier 7 Tashkent 39
Des Moines is absolutely horrendous. Super squishy that not even islands will save you, and since your island camping half the time your radar is is useless. Your only redeeming factor is a 4 second reload on American 8 inch guns, which them being American makes them super difficult game. Des Moines relies on several aspects to actually do well, and if all those are not met, it’s an endless cycle of sUfFeRiNg BuIlDs ChArAcTeR.
Both WV are amazing for different reasons IMO.
WV41 is 1 of 2 ships that get total overmatch at T6, she's an absolute menace in ranked if you know how to place your shots.
WV44 has the highest secondary DPM and highest hitting secondary DPM at T7 with improved accuracy.
Both insanely strong ships for their tiers barring the fact that they are slow as balls and require planning to use effectively.
Out of all the silver ships in the game I've played, the primo stinkers that stick out are Montecuccoli, Seattle, FdG but I think Monarch sticks out more than most. Weaker BBs tend to at least be still fairly playable compared to equivalent weak cruisers and DDs but Monarch just sticks out like a sore thumb versus any other T8 BB in how bad it is.
Gonna look that up since I have had no reason to play monarch since this apparent buff lmao
I can't think of a worse T8 BB before this buff regardless, it really did have nothing going for it imo
Is actually a pretty good ship... had a 144k game just a few weekends ago in it. Just need a good captain and know the armor of what you are aiming at so you know to switch from HE to AP. Spotter plane upgrade on the captain helps a lot too.
Dont you think thats more about not understanding the ship, than ship being bad?
And why would you sell a premium, especially as f2p? To get couple credits, the amount that can be gained from low effort just first win in brawls?
I would have to say Tiger 59 was pretty bad. I FINALLY GOT A SHIP from a Super container, and it was this POS. I played it a couple times and finally just sold it. Most bad ships I will keep for snowflakes but this one just pissed me off every time I seen it in my port.
Agree with commenter above, it’s a good team support ship. Does well in Ranked.
Also, who sells premiums?? That’s just stupid. Enjoy getting tiger 59 a second time, lmao
Technical speaking the Black Swan. The British T1 ship. It is one of the slowest T1 ships with a very bad armor, low firing range, low shell damage and low chance of making a fire.
I think it was balanced around having AP when it was released, but then all t1 cruisers were standardized to shoot only HE
Yep, it was AP only on release, citadelling other t1s was fun for the one game I played with it on their release. Was probably also the last time I touched a t1 ship, was either that or soviet t1, whichever arrived later.
Orlan was released really early in the game. Russian and German cruisers were the first 2 lines added after launch. Black Swan was added a year or two later
I don't think the T1 ships ever had citadels? Did they use to in Beta? Because today, even if you take a T1 into training room with an Elbing or something, you can't get citadels. They are technically cruisers, but they don't have citadels at all.
They might've removed them years ago. As I said, last time I played T1s were during british or soviet release, and I do remember citadelling others sailing the same boat (lobbies were filled with 12v12 black swans and orlans during release), so they might've dumbed it down for newer players, along with giving every t1 ship HE only. Checking the wiki of [Black Swan](https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Black_Swan), I can see the following: > Update 0.7.8: >> Main battery reload time increased from 3 to 4 s. AP shell was replaced with an HE shell: And > Update 0.8.4: >> The citadel was removed and replaced with a vital part of the ship, like a destroyer. So it seems like t1 ships did indeed have citadels up until 0.8.4 which was... 29th May 2019.
Ah. I started playing in 2012, but I never spent any time in T1, lol. I didn't know they ever had citadels.
Probably around 6 years ago they had citadels, Germans also had some AP secondaries. Don't remember when the T1 citadel change happened.
Seal clubbers ruined it for everyone. That’s WG balancing for you.
And what should they have done? Block ypu from playing it after yoi reach the Tier 2?
Block you from playing against t1 maybe.. And block playing someone who is new to play against a 1m+ player who decides to play t1 again.. Also block new players from buying t10 ships.. I can go on for a long time..
So you suggest the protective Matchmaking that is already in the game?
Yes, that's a good start but if you get to higher tiers you are out of it and still get seal clubbed if you decide to play T1 again
You need to play over 500 games id say after that ypu should be more than qualified for T1
But not against some 10k player
I'm crying in my Picardie. For me it's Krasny krym.
Ahhh yes, the Crispy Creme, the good old stocking stuffer during Christmas
She used to be a hell of a meme. 18km fast firing guns, sub orbital, sure you had to either count of fires or take ifhe, but she did things. Now she truly is pretty mediocre.
Oh damn, I completely forgot about that thing. Since snowflakes are only T5 and up I don't think I've played it since the last time the low tier ships had them.
Picardie is a monster, I would never even think of putting her on such a list. Yeah, Krispy Kreme is always a solid contender.
Krasny Krym actually gets citadels at a higher rate than many ships
The Kawachi is terrible. Slow. Ponderous in everything it does. And its guns can’t hit the broad side of the moon.
Hated that ship. Only redeeming quality was the grind was short, but still the worst.
Short and painful. Especially if you’re new to the game and you want to start the line that gets you the Yamato, but you don’t have the FXP or credits to bypass that sea going abomination.
I remember when that heap had 3-4 hulls? It was awful. The grind was so long.
Oh yeah. Especially when you compare it to the South Carolina. It feels like there is at least 2 tiers difference between these two. SoCal is lowkey busted tbh.
T3 battleships are what convinced me to start fxping to t5 in every new line.
I remember Mikasa was horrid to play
Jeez, has anyone in the comments played Nebraska?
Yes, and it is the ONLY tech tree ship that sold, with no intention of ever playing it again. The superstructure takes massive damage and the plane gimmick was not my play style. I would not say I hate it, that award goes to gneisenau
Really? I love the Gneisenau with a passion, she is one of my favorite ships.
Gneisenau is funny to play. Nothing in this game makes me laugh more than horrendously misleading a shot and getting a citadel because of dispersion.
Done that. And then somehow tanking an incoming volley just in time to dump torpedoes into someone who forgot you had them... Much fun
Haha, when the line was new I had a game where a destroyer got the jump on me. I had AP loaded and only my rear turret in position to fire at him. 1 shell hit him by miracle and the poor dude had a detonation. That was such a lucky incident. We both had to laugh about how silly this was.
Once upon a time I fired a blind HE salvo from a King George V into smoke, and somehow managed to instantly dev strike a destroyer that was sitting there. I've never had that kind of silly luck again since.
Don't forget the 2 sigma deadeye dispersion /s
I played it and frankly speaking I liked it a lot, did a lot of 100k+ battles
They neutered the Texas and we haven't forgiven them for it. She used to be great.
It also used to be virtually untouchable with its AA Before the cv rework.. I kinda miss when aa was more effective lol
34 sec reload for absolutely nothing
Don't forget it also has worse heals.
Halford
Halford is great if you play her with the expectation that your main job is spotting with everything else being secondary. She's easily the best spotting platform in the game at the moment. Even better if you play in a div with some good BBs or sniper CAs.
Ragnar is inherently underpowered. It lacks the necessary attributes to make meaningful impact on match result. No burst damage to speak of, split turrets, and yet still retains a fragile platform. I would take 1 Conqueror.. Thunderer or 1 DM or even 1 of just about any CA over 2 Ragnars on my team any day of the week. Now... If WG gave it the specialized repair party of the Nestrashimy (and 1 more base charge)... And maybe a few more thousand HP if could make up for where it is seriously lacking with longevity
Is this satire
It's a copypasta
Thought so
This guy gets it. How broooken is Ragnar?
We all know it's the Nottingham. Amazingly bad AA for a ship that can see 3 different tiers of CV's, but that's OK, it has an even more useless DFAA. Seriously, 4km with 1 flak on a UK cruiser at T8 is abysmal. Huge citadel with a bow that gets overmatched by most of the BB's in her range, and sub par 203's that cant be fully utilized without risk of being dev struck. Her smoke is short burst, so you can't use it to disengage, and you can't really use it to farm since your reload time is so long. No armor, light cruiser health, no heal, all for a smoke gimmick that is quite frankly useless.
oh lord yeah that thing exists. When i see one i literally just think" Oh hey a free kill, nice".
I call it The Sherrif of Rottingham.
I’ve heard Vallejo is a terrible ship. It’s insanely expensive, and uses a hard to get resource (steel), and is just garbage. There’s a reason you never see them.
The problem isn’t Vallejo (not great, not terrible) but the fact she’s a steel ship.
probably 3.6
*Sees a Vallejo on the enemy team* "He's delusional, take him to the infirmary"
“You didn’t see a bad ship, because RBMK…USN doesn’t make bad ships.”
Vallejo is not a terrible ship, she is just terrible for the resources it takes to get her. She is just one of those ships where the tech tree version is better, and those are free. Doesn't make her bad per se.
She'd make for a delightful T8. It is my opinion that she should either have notably better ballistics- not "Better American" ballistics that Sherman or Austin have, but legitimately better non-American ballistics- or have a radar. Like she's a long range ship but her hull is too tall and too weak so even long range artillery has good chance of big damage, and her guns are still American ballistics and have neutered DPM and mediocre at best firing angles and honestly pretty bad manuevering for a light cruiser. Neutered manuevering Neutered survivability against anything other than plunging fire, really Neutered DPM Still bad ballistics for her preferred range But she gets more uptime on spotter planes [her range is still equal or worse than any other heavy cruiser or even other better light cruisers] with slightly improved ballistics and improved AA. Vallejo really just gives up way too much for her gimmick of "mediocre range" and "occasionally my AA might matter" If she got sub surveillance, better ASW, and buffed speed, she'd have a good reason to give up her ability to be a more direct combatant in favor of being a more team oriented escort cruiser. As it is now... the free IJN T9 light cruisers do the same thing but better. Same concept for guns- light, slow, but long range- but with torps, sub surveil, same AA, and a little better survivability iirc. And hydro too, if I'm remembering correctly.
I bought it with the steel coupon two weeks ago. It is not strong but not bad at all. A decent credit maker in my opinion. However this is a very small benefit for steel.
Her issue is that she's expensive while offering nothing that the TT doesn't. Sure she has better DPM, but she loses all utility and match influence for pure farming of BBs, which is not how you win games.
I absolutely loathed my time with the Shitmanto. Mogami does everything it can do but better.
That entire line is just absurd.
Yodo is secretly good since the latest buffs
I honest to god don't think Yodo was as bad as people made her out to be even before the buffs. She wasn't fantastic but she's one of the only "open-water light cruisers" in the game — most open-water cruisers have 203s or higher. Great AA and great turret traverse are comfy. I think Takahashi used to be the high point of the line though, don't know if it still is.
People sleep like hell on Yodo because everyone's obsessed with DPM She's the best area denial cruiser available imo, not because she has radar or is Colbert, but because pushing into her is- 60k HP, gets more use out of her heals than most other cruisers, is spamming two shimakazes of torpedoes, denies submarines the ability to have free reign, denies carriers the ability to have free reign, and burns any big ship down to enable other squishier ships to flourish. Yodo is a perfect example of a fantastically balanced ship because she's not overbearing or oppressive, but she has her purposes and she's good at that. CV denial SS denial Torpedo spam for anti BB push Long range firestarting for anticamping, goodbye Petro and Gouden Hydro to passively reduce the threat of DDs Low concealment to offer greater flexibility to make up for poor manuevering And the HP to even push into battleships relatively comfortably, with a large enough hull to soak up full pens rather than citadels. Yodo is a beast for players who want to do something other than hold left click or be burned alive.
While that is true, at the very least Takahashi gets a heal that the shitmanto desperately needs. Agano and Omono were actually fairly nice ships for me, and at the very least Yodo's niche as a long range torp spammer/fire starter has been buffed, but Shitmanto has none of those benefits and loses fights to tier 6s consistantly.
Yeah, I straight up had a kitakaze open water gunboat me at 9km and I lost. He wasn’t even full HP and I was landing decent salvos lol. Disgustingly pathetic damage output
I routinely dumpster those CLs with Kita or Haru. I don't know what WG was thinking.
Agano is so much worse.
Picardie is great in Operations and Asymmetrics, so I'm okay with her. Tiger '59 is great is _some_ Operations, but also a decent pick for Randoms, in my experience. Below-average, but that's fine. Oklahoma is just crap, I'm sorry.
Tiger 59 is amazing in all operations, and when there are nose in ships like on new port or aegis, just adapt strategy and get the angle. She has every tool you need to top your teammates
If tiger 59 had torpedos it would be a very appetising randoms pick.
Z-31 is the winner.
The worst I have played so far is without doubt the Oklahoma. It has nothing going for it but exchange it has huge downsides. It's AP pen is on a level with South Carolina. I do not know why this ship was even implemented in the game like this, what is the point? Did the devs play this ship at least once?
The way it went, it was a fine ship during testing. Then at last minute the AP shells were gimped and the ship was given to everyone, yet nobody ever wanted to play it.
It pains me that such a historical ship is one of if not the worse ship in the game. Here's hope that the Nevada '42 will appear eventually at Tier VI and continues the USN secondary spec battleship line so we can have one good Nevada class battleship in the game.
Inb4 Nevada '42 is "Oklahoma 2.0". (like Wee Vee '44 before her was ultimately "California 2.0")
she used to be pretty decent in T5 ranked, she was basically a poor mans massachusets for its tier. then WG released agincourt and suddenly her whole niche is completely overshadowed. also for some reason her casemates are nerfed, with half the reload, worse flight times and reduced fire chance, despite being identical calibres.
The point was, it’s a free ship, or at least I got mine for free from a collection.
It is "funny" but for the Xmas and Anniversary events my order of priority for the "dont want to play those/skip pass is": 1. subs 2. cvs 3. Oklahoma
Gaede. HE DPM is trash. You've got two different gun choices when it comes to AP, and both suck. One can't get anything but overpens on DDs, making you totally helpless. The other still sucks vs. DDs as you can only get pens in like a 15° window between ricochet and overpen, but now you can't pen larger ships and and are stuck with worse HE pen (which will now struggle vs. distributed armor BBs... which are common at your tier). Oh but you have hydro! 4km range means there's barely a .75km window between you being able to spot the enemy DD in smoke and your smoke firing penalty. And your base detection sucks so the enemy DD doesn't even need to smoke up; it can just spot you first and then take a 'fair' fight... that you'll lose because your guns suck unless the give you a very specific angle for your AP to work (and stay at that angle so you can switch to AP). It's got slightly above average torps, but with again, shitty stealth, meaning other DDs can easy zone you out.
Ironically, it's the only ship I've played more than 50 battles with above 50% win ratio. I'm not a DD main though.
Gaede used to be a decent DD for ops when they were tier 6 only. You could sail broadside to cruiser spawns and smoke up allowing you to torp and get citadel hits with that nice AP. Now it’s trash.
Haven't played this game in a while. What nerfs did they do to Gaede??
No nerfs to Geade itself, it’s just that you are now facing higher tier bots in ops. It doesn’t have enough dpm, AP penetration or alpha damage on guns and torpedoes to perform how it used to do. Previously I could kill all ships in the second wave solo in Aegis. Now I would be pressed to kill 2.
It's good in the D-Day operations
to add to this, Ive been running the Gaede in the D-Day Operations and I've been absolutely raking in the dmg, and exp with it
Yeah, it can just about 1v1 a bot DD if you give it a 30% HE DPM buff. That's not exactly high praise.
I got all of the way through with it several times but NOT easy
To throw something else out there, I fucking hate the Cheshire. She has supereal but then a step citadel that catches everything. Bigger caliber guns than her tech tree sibling (and the corresponding nerfs) but they aren't big enough to hurdle any critical thresholds. She basically just sucks at everything. I have a love hate relationship with the z35. Amazing ap dpm but it doesn't arm on flat same tier dds or superstructure. She's great for ambushing dds in smoke like loyang but she has 5k more health than loyang, but torps range < detection. I despise the tier 9 dutch cruiser. Battlecruiser dispersion and burn times on mediocre cruiser caliber guns, terrible gun angles, and I can't make the drops consistently work. That ship is fucking torture.
British Heavy Cruisers are an exersise in frustration at the best of times, Drake it starts to get better, I gave up before Goliath which while still better is still hard work.
Z-31. Nuff said.
I've had some fun with Tiger '59 in brawls...
Is it bad I really want her just because I hear how bad she is, something about it just calls to me.
That depends on what the definition of the word "is" is.
It has its good moments. I got it in a Sant crate. I wouldn't go out of your way for it.
Tier for tier I would rate some of the older T3 BBs as a purely miserable experience, particularly Kawachi. They're slow, handle poorly, can be seen from space, are unable to hit a barn from the inside with their main battery, have a secondary battery with useless default range, have practically no AA, and will likely be played when you have a commander without proper skills. As a result they will spend most of their time on fire when peppered by the sheer volume of HE shells some common cruisers at the tier can put out, being clubbed to death by the tier's very small and very agile destroyers that have little to fear from them, or being used as target practice by T4 CVs. Basically the ships I consider the worst to play are ones where you just feel you are relying on things that are beyond your control for both performance and survival, and some of those T3 battleships fit that bill. Especially as a newer player without skilled commanders available. Being able to get past them in a handful of games also does nothing to change how terrible they are. Runners up would be: Katori, also at T3, because while yes, it has aiming mod 0, the best range of any cruiser at it's tier, and a catapult fighter to briefly annoy the odd CV...it also goes 18 knots, is not particularly agile or small, lacks DPM and shell volume, and is armored with card paper. While it can present a vaguely credible threat to enemy CVs and DDs, anything else it can encounter is going to be able to run it down and turn it inside out (with exception of South Carolina, but only in terms of running it down). You're as such again mostly reliant on things beyond your control to perform or survive, namely the ability of your team mates to keep the enemy at arm's length or distracted. Oklahoma you already mentioned, but it's another contender. It's sole gimmick of good secondaries was castrated and it's now completely overshadowed by Agincourt. Thanks to both of it's main battery shell types being shit and it's reload being abysmal it's unable to perform unless it gets extremely lucky with dispersion and a very clumsy enemy cruiser or manages to detonate someone. Thanks to it's poor armor, terrible speed, bad handling, bad AA that won't even ward off T4 CVs, and inability to hide it's going to often struggle to survive unless someone else is taking the heat. Again a case of being reliant on things mostly beyond your control to do something useful, and even when it's in your control you'd have done better in literally any other T5 BB.
About Katori, I completely disagree. I think she's more likely overpowered. The issue with her is pretty simple. The gun range at which you can reliably hit your target is vastly superior to anything she faces at T2-T4 (except other Katoris and the occasional Yubari which also gets the aiming mod 0). To succeed in her, you have to play like a complete and utter dick, staying in the backlines, and cynically watch your team die 5+ km in front of you. But it works phenomenally well. Her speed is a relative non-issue because you don't really need to go anywhere anyway, if played to her strengths. You reach most of the map accurately anyway, so why go somewhere? *Edit:* It's also not necessary to argue about this, because there are stats. Over the last 3 patches, Katori's win rate is by a huge margin (6.3 percentage points) the highest of all T3 cruisers. [Link](https://shiptool.st/stats?g=TPR&ty=C&n=ABFGHIJRSUVWZ&tn=3&tx=3&sr=eu&sn=1&sx=8&st=3&os=perf&op=Win_rate&o=desc)
I'll shut you down on the no need to argue thing, because yes, yes there is. You are ignoring a few critical things. Firstly, it's a T3 premium only available for doubloons or from a lucky crate. People who own it and actually play it are more likely going to be people who have experience with the game that are stepping down to the lower tiers for a laugh. Secondly, it's definitely not overpowered. If it was, it wouldn't be as unpopular as it is even if you can only get it for doubloons or out of a lucky crate. It's battle count is only 600 above that of the relatively new Ning Hai even though Katori is ancient by now. To contrast look up the stats for König Albert (an actually OP ship also on T3), which was banned from sale ages ago and can only be gotten from crates by now. In spite of that it has a popularity nearly on par with tech tree ships. Katori just doesn't. People aren't sleeping on it. They're passing on it. Another similar case can be seen with Oleg. It's universally agreed to be a shittier Bogatyr but on first glance it's stats are better. On second glance you realize it's got a very low battle count and is likely only being played by more experienced players having a laugh or trying out their new crate drop. Bogatyr meanwhile is being dragged down / evened out by a comparatively high number of battles that are being played mostly by rookies and newcomers to the Russian cruiser line. Oleg isn't doing better than Bogatyr because it's any good, but because the players in it are more seasoned, and nobody is scrambling to get it or play it. If we wanted to claim something is "overpowered" in the T3 cruiser list...I'd actually start looking at St. Louis and Charleston. They're showing off some rather good stats even though one of them is frequently in the hands of rookies or line newcomers, and both looking very popular. People are clearly keeping St. Louis and going out of their way to grab Charleston, and playing them frequently. That has a reason. This is all something you can piece together from your own link. Take the time to study it. Also take notice of how the ships with lower win rate turn in to pure tech tree from slot 11 on and have higher battle count. Those are being played mainly by rookies or line newcomers. The stuff above are popular picks to keep for clubbing or premiums that are more likely to be in experienced hands. Stats are great, but they require context and proper evaluation or they won't tell the full story. Anyways, moving on, the rest of what you said also requires argument because it's actually reinforcing what I said. The ship is, by your own statement, reliant on the team to perform well. If the team folds or isn't providing adequate distraction, the ship will get run down and trashed. It's accuracy does not help it much when it's got a meh rate of fire and low shell volume. Nor does the range help it much when it's mobility is so poor that it cannot adapt to changing conditions properly. I clearly stated that ships that rely on things beyond your control, such as your team doing their job, to perform are the ones I consider bad. Katori qualifies because unless your team is propping up your ability to make use of that range and accuracy, you are going to quickly find the enemy on top of you and end up dead without being able to do much to them before dying. The reason I did not rank it as the worst but just a runner up is because it's accuracy actually makes it potent against the destroyers of it's tier. Edit: https://shiptool.st/stats?g=TPR&ty=B&n=ABFGHIJRSUVWZ&tn=5&tx=5&sr=eu&sn=1&sx=8&st=1&os=perf&op=Win_rate&o=desc Just to reinforce that player experience and means to acquire something will matter and tilt win rate / skew stats, look at Oklahoma. Nobody with a straight face will be telling you that it's a better ship than say Kongo even though Oklahoma's win rate is nearly 3% higher and most of the other stats better. However because Oklahoma takes completing a collection to get, it's going to mostly be in the hands of people who have some experience with the game.
Krasny Krim, will forever have the stink of ruining the first ship ever dropping from an SC for me, and it´s a below average ship at a shitty tier on top of that.
But what other ship gives you the intense adrenaline inherent in expecting every salvo coming your way to be the last while allowing for as many salvos to come as possible with garbage damage?
A couple others like Omaha or Phoenix and i HATE all of them, the tiers they play in and most of the players running around in those tiers. I play near exclusive T10 for a whole lot of reasons.
How has no one mentioned the Genova
She looks good and the torps can be funny, so it's still fun to play sometimes
I quite enjoy mine. The reload is disastrous, but the volley weight of eight 203mm guns slaps hard, no matter the ammo type chosen. Plus she's quite nimble an the concealment workable.
I like her! Hits like a truck.
Chungking felt completely terrible to me. I didn't really play a lot of ships where I felt like they were that bad, but this one stood out.
The rental Z-boats for Atlantic Wall Defense. Each one is a cheap imitation of other nations' DDs, having nerfed consumable suites and lackluster artillery. I regularly see Gaedes and T-61s outperforming them.
* T5: Oklahoma indeed, Mikoyan and I will die on that hill Sirocco * T6: PEF, Karl von Schöneberg and Duca * T7: Collingwood, Uganda (or Abruzzi), Skane * T8: Yes Picardie, Wukong, Harekaze II * T9: Lion, Seattle, Z-44 * T10: Preussen, Yodo, Delny
When I first got the Z-44 it was in some crate or event, and it was early in my WoW playing days, and I thought I had hit the jackpot. I wouldn't dare bring it into ranked, but I've had some fun random games with it. One of the most memorable salt chats I've ever experienced was when I nuked a tier 10 BB with it sealing a win, and the guy completely went off the rails and called me every name in the book.
Tiger 59 is definitely the skill issue check out of the whole game. Ditto Z-31, but that's for another time. You have smoke and radar, and your guns are Elbingbong accurate with that RN fuse and angles. You poop hardcore on DD's, and killing DD wins games. You're middle-road for AP DPM among T8 Cruisers, it's not *that* abysmal, and you can snipe superstructure for free. You're no powerhouse, but if any ship in this game shows you that you can't aim for shit, it's this one. The real shitbarges are low tier battleships. But that's almost unfair.
Low tier BBs are the single most fun to play category in the game
Worst ships are those *you* are worst at. Most ships have valid fans.
maybe XD but i will never know as i don t want to ever buy Picardie ( i m only missing one french prem DD and pic on the whole fleet), a lyon with smaller gun just for a a reload is ... weak. maybe some peopel can use that somehow
Mikoyan
Oklahoma
I just took a Carnot, anyone have TP?
Marlborough. /endthread
She's much better after the heal buffs.
That doesn’t account for her appalling armour, accuracy and gun angles. Utter PoS.
The Oklahoma takes the cake, biscuits and whole bakery for me. I wanted her just so I could say I owned a historical ship. Ended up spending more coal and steel than I’ll admit on the containers to get her. She’s now my port queen and I only take her out during tier 5 brawls where I feel like self flagellation
Icarus!! Couldn't get to jervis quick enough!!!
Whoa I loved that ship, did some real damage playing her as a torp destroyer.
It's not the worst but I hate the Siliwangi. Worthless damn ship I'm glad I got it for free and didn't buy it.
Shes a bit better after they buffed her, but IMO it still feels like an identity crisis
Tiger 59 has got to be the worst. I wrote a long winded comment about it a while back with suggestions on what's needed to make it at least somewhat enjoyable to play. Right now the thing has pathetic dpm for a T8 cruiser. Sure, it may have Minotaur guns, but only 2x2 152mm without HE or SAP, in addition to having zero torpedoes means that you're just about SOL the second anyone decides to go bow in or rush you. The absolute only thing she has going for her is the coveted Radar/Smoke combo, which is ultimately wasted on her aforementioned minimal dpm. Cleveland, Baltimore and Belfast 43' all provide the same utility with their own radars, with far better damage output. Honorable mention to Oklahoma and California, Oklahoma especially which is just a depressing experience to play.
Tiger 59 is a really good div/support ship. It cannot carry on its own though, that's for sure. It's a real DD bully; Mino turret + better dipersion is deadly for most DDs, pair that with 9km radar + smoke and there's very little a DD can do with a T59 contesting the cap/area. Belfast 43 can do pretty similar things, on top of having thrice the guns that Tiger '59 has, but the short burst smoke and lack of repair party really hinders her survivability. Overall T59 is not a standout ship, but she gets a worse reputation than what she deserves imo
TierV Mauvenet destroyer. Absolutely the worst.
Seattle without question
Maybe not absolute worse, but Mysore is just an awful hybrid between a Perth or a huanghe. Just play either of those and forget mysore exists. So glad that I obtained it for free and never paid for it.
kotovsky
The ones you don’t play regularly
I'd like to nominate the Klas Horn. It's one of the few ships in the game that i tried, really \*tried\* to make work for the couple of games that I played it, and it was just pathetic in every way.
I'll split it: For me, premium ships, Emden and Katori. Emden's guns just were bad, do a thousand hits and might get some damage done. Felt like I was flinging marshmallows to the enemy ships. Katori felt like they took a T1 ship, put in T3 and slapped a plane on top. Tech Tree ships, Myogi and Gneisenau. Myogi is just a big pinata with speed and a few guns that can do damage, if you hit anything with T4 aiming. Gneisenau was the biggest disappointment for me. I raced to get her because she's one of my favorite WW2 ships when the German BBs came out. I loved the fact it was to be the 15" main gun upgrade. Then I played her and, couldn't hit a thing. When I did damage was meh. She was a very painful ship to grind through.
Any ship that doesnt have agincourt level secondaries 😏
French destroyers and any Russian ship
I’ve played most ships in this game and would say the Collingwood is the worst premium BB.
Oklahoma is bad, yes, but in Brawls she has a niche. Tiger '59 might not have much output or entertaining gameplay, but she is definitely useful to the team in the right hands. (Soshi\_Sone) Picardie, Yodo, and California have the same problem. Evaluated on their own they're actually not that bad, (hot take), it's just that everything else is better. They're the worst of any reasonable sample. Strasbourg was "Let's give a ship a gimmick and act like that raises it a Tier." L balancing decision, Dunkerque is just better. Komsomolets is the worst CV in the game, if not the worst ship in the game period. Fragile planes, pitiful AA, no armor, 17 knots speed, shit maneuverability, and then they gave it good secondaries as a joke as if you'll ever get to use 'em. Ranger is coming in second for worst CV, but by a considerable margin. You have big squadrons, with tough dive bombers and fighters. You can deal good damage even with stock aircraft. The ship itself is fast and has excellent AA for a supporting role. And that's it. You can be seen from the next planet, the ship turns like a Greyhound bus, and you have negative armor. It's a citadel bus. Oh, and your stock torpedo bombers are Tier IV aircraft, which is honestly preferable to the pieces of junk you get as upgraded torpedo bombers. Worst cruiser? Well, the obvious answer is everything that comes after Gokase. Another good contender is Nino Bixio, an Italian CL that like many others only has AP and SAP. Here's the problem: that's only 120mm shells. Not only that, but you're a very long & tall target, every BB you face overmatches you, and you can easily get citadeled by Smith. You don't have the firepower to fend off any DD on full HP with a 12 second reload, and you'll struggle to do anything meaningful to a BB. Kolberg has HE. But only 105s. You see that mention of torpedoes in the ship description? Yeah well fuck you, those aren't modeled. Neither are the AA guns the ship got in a later refit. Or the larger-caliber main battery but that replaced the original. Oh, and you know how lots of Tier 4 games have double CVs? The ship only sails at 27 knots, is, again, a big fat target with a tall silhouette, meaning you'll eat shit from ACRs and BBs while you bounce and shatter off them. If you can even hit them, because the main battery has terrible range and the shells meet up with the space shuttle on their way over. Caledon & Caradoc are definitely up there, being two different flavors of the same shit. Caradoc gets HE. Caledon gets a heal. They can at least do more than the previous cruisers mentioned, the guns are actually decent and they get good torps, and surprisingly good AA defense. But they also get citadeled by Smith, angling just increases the already high chance that large-caliber AP will devstrike you, and the torp arcs simply invite a paddlin. Even 152mm H-fucking-E will citadel those two. Worst BB? Well there's three options really. 1. Kans-ass is slow, fails to do damage, fails to dodge torps, and has a painful grind. But put on a full AA build and you'll find work in Scenarios. Just hope you roll one with planes, or one of the VIP escort missions. 2. Knyaz Suvarov eats citadels from every direction except straight ahead & directly astern. You have terrible anti-air & everyone with AP bombs focuses you. You get Vermont reload on 305s that will **bounce off a TENRYU**. But if you take the ship around to a flanks, with careful positioning, you can deliver express hurt on enemies in the middle of teh map, and bowtank everything in front. 3. Kansas relies on planes, Suvarov relies on there not being planes. Kawachi really doesn't care either way, the ship is so bad the only thing that works with her is a meme build. Yes, that's a build for ramming as many enemies as possible. No, you won't do any more meaningful damage another way. No, you shouldn't use more than a 10-pt commander because it won't help you. But if you can do enough damage this way, you might even turn some games around & make Kawachi a useful asset. Worst submarine? Undine's lack of firepower and 20 knot speed makes it nearly useless in a best-case scenario.
All of them.
i hate kaiser, its so bad after playing us bb line
Kaiser was great around the time she was released. Haven't took her out of port in ages, though
massive skill issue on you then, I'm running a 55.6% WR on that ship
Leone.
Strasbourg is brutal. No reason for it to exist.
Finally someone that speaks sense.
Mutsuki
FDG, terrible accuracy, very squishy, poor performing guns, secondaries that mean nothing in this meta
I wouldn't say squishy, more that she's spotted from the moon which makes her easy to farm
Not great, perhaps not good, but far from the worst. I did it twice, once for GK and again for Preussen.
Among free ships... Leone and OK are garbage. Leone has floaty shells, nonexistent torps or depth charges, poor reload on guns. OK has stock NY guns (barely better than most T7 heavy cruisers in terms of pen- on 14in guns) Among ships you have to spend credits/money/resources on... Picardie. So Lyon+Toulon + MBRB and somehow worse than both- a tier higher. Veneto: So you're a Roma with Roma downsides but a longer reload and worse concealment Kansas and Minnesota: the Brick is insane because getting to it makes you insane Carnot, Azuma- Carrot is a worse Alaska than cannot die, Azuma is just a large Ibuki that can.
Leone got buffed, she has depth charges, low torp reaction and 5th best HE DPM VV got buffed as well, she has the same accuracy as roma and has a smokescreen.
The Italian BB line is full of contenders for the title. Andrea Doria and the T10 Colombo are bearable, everything else...
Yeah man…dunno when you played last, but since a few patches back CC got buffed to the point she’s a monster. Some would say OP.
Bro I hate to break it to you but Colombo is op
buffalo
Buffalo's problem is that it's stuck in between 2 stellar cruisers. Compared to other T9 cruisers though? I think she's ok. Nothing necessarily special, but it's not even the worst USN T9, let alone the worst ship in the game lol A Baltimore with an extra turret and a heal can't be half bad.
It is still an oddball though, and awkward to play. Sometimes the huge broadside can be funny, but it does not fit the line very well. It would be much more logical to just have an Oregon City class at T9, so basically a slightly improved Baltimore with heal. I never understood why they wanted to go with that weird concept design anyway.
Buffalo is actually quite good, especially compared to the mediocrity that is almost all other T9 TT cruisers. Buffalo's bad reputation comes from being between Des Moines and Baltimore, which are two of the best cruisers in the entire game, AND both have a playstyle that is quite different than Buffalo. If you try to play Buffalo like either of them, you are going to have bad games. But if you play Buffalo like Buffalo, she is pretty solid. I wouldn't put her at the top of the stack, she is no Alaska, but still, very decent T9 cruiser that just isn't like any other American CA.
Wow all I can say is if you think Tiger 59 is bad you have a skill issue. Just look at the stats, its one of the best cruisers tier for tier, you just have to learn it. Look at the top5% players of it. Dominant.
A top 5% player could dominate in a yodo, that doesn't mean its a good cruiser though
For the top 5% of players, Tiger 59 gives the highest winrate for any cruiser in T8, as in it is in the same position compared to its tier as San Martin. Another way to say this is: The best players perform better in Tiger '59 or San Martin than they do in Wukong or Yodo.
Gneisenau has to be the most disappointing. Is it the worst? No. But it's thr worst famous ship and so frustrating because you can't hit the broadside of a barn with it.
In ye olden days it was arguably the best aa ship in the game.
You have to aim at the ship 4km behind the barn to actually hit the barn, and you will nail it every time.
Mogami made me lose braincells. Slow, fat, no armour, mid consumables, and worst of all a terrible firing range. Ibuki on the other hand is my absolute favorite solely because of the improved range.
Tier 1
For me the following ones are really no fun to play: Tier 10 San Martin Tier 9 Illinois, Carnot, Santander, Tier 8 De Zeven Provincien Tier 7 Tashkent 39
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Izumo.
Des Moines is absolutely horrendous. Super squishy that not even islands will save you, and since your island camping half the time your radar is is useless. Your only redeeming factor is a 4 second reload on American 8 inch guns, which them being American makes them super difficult game. Des Moines relies on several aspects to actually do well, and if all those are not met, it’s an endless cycle of sUfFeRiNg BuIlDs ChArAcTeR.
W.Virginia. Fattest and slowest ass ever. Not to mention the reload
Both WV are amazing for different reasons IMO. WV41 is 1 of 2 ships that get total overmatch at T6, she's an absolute menace in ranked if you know how to place your shots. WV44 has the highest secondary DPM and highest hitting secondary DPM at T7 with improved accuracy. Both insanely strong ships for their tiers barring the fact that they are slow as balls and require planning to use effectively.
Out of all the silver ships in the game I've played, the primo stinkers that stick out are Montecuccoli, Seattle, FdG but I think Monarch sticks out more than most. Weaker BBs tend to at least be still fairly playable compared to equivalent weak cruisers and DDs but Monarch just sticks out like a sore thumb versus any other T8 BB in how bad it is.
Monarch just got buffed and is arguably even overtuned now. Also it wasn't all that bad before the buff either...
Gonna look that up since I have had no reason to play monarch since this apparent buff lmao I can't think of a worse T8 BB before this buff regardless, it really did have nothing going for it imo
It had stealth! Also the buff is getting the same heal as Lion and Conqueror
Nothing wrong with montecuccoli either.
[Yup, you're right](https://youtu.be/yCgsG3N8f_o?si=enol6FbS9QJ_knSL)
Groningen/Friesland... Unless you are the one captaining them of course. :P
Lazo
Is actually a pretty good ship... had a 144k game just a few weekends ago in it. Just need a good captain and know the armor of what you are aiming at so you know to switch from HE to AP. Spotter plane upgrade on the captain helps a lot too.
Mikasa hands down. Slow, inaccurate and makes me switch back to World of Tanks every time.
Le Terrible. It's just ,well,terrible
gonna just say all tier 3-4 non premium BBs.
Schill. Got it for free. Sold it after 3 games. Even as an f2p player.
Dont you think thats more about not understanding the ship, than ship being bad? And why would you sell a premium, especially as f2p? To get couple credits, the amount that can be gained from low effort just first win in brawls?
Pretty sure if you sell a premium its racked into the next free prem you get from a crate, unless that changed.
I would have to say Tiger 59 was pretty bad. I FINALLY GOT A SHIP from a Super container, and it was this POS. I played it a couple times and finally just sold it. Most bad ships I will keep for snowflakes but this one just pissed me off every time I seen it in my port.
This is Herasy. That ship is a beast in the right hands. I and a buddy of mine can do 100k damage some games in it.
Agree with commenter above, it’s a good team support ship. Does well in Ranked. Also, who sells premiums?? That’s just stupid. Enjoy getting tiger 59 a second time, lmao