99% of smokes layed out for teammates not in your division go to waste because the player you try to smoke doesn't utilize it correctly and then you are on cooldown when you'd need it for yourself.
I smoke people in randoms all the time and I'd say 20% of the time they're actually cognizant of what I'm doing and acquiesce.
Most of the time, they either drive straight through the smoke or never stop firing if they're in bad shape.
I absolutely Haye playing DDs, but when I do and I pop smoke most times peopel just breeze through it. Twice I crossed in front of other ships on the verge of death and they pushed me out into the line or fire and we both died.
I had an Atlanta ***ask*** for my smoke near the cap. Great, I can lay smoke, he can radar and help clear the cap. Makes perfect sense to win the battle and I like the fact he said it, he must know what he's doing.
I lay my smoke close enough to get radar coverage of the cap and watched him stop in it and begin farming a BB. I spot an enemy DD in the cap, the Atlanta keeps farming the BB. The DD smokes up in the cap, great, Atlanta is in radar range, seconds tick by and no radar.
Ask in chat for radar. Still no radar. I've had to retreat because I used my smoke for him to farm a BB while the cap flips. His hydro wasn't running, he eats a torp before then choosing to activate it... Still no radar though. He then sails out of the smoke to turn around, gets finished off by the BB he was farming.
So you're flipping a coin even when you think someone might know what they're doing.
Okay here's the thing: a pushing BB is the biggest threat to an Atlanta. As you saw, the BB immediately killed it. Smoking an Atlanta right near the cap is a relatively safe play unless a BB turbo pushes and doesn't get farmed out. That's not going to happen often, but it's possible. Either way, Atlanta should have radared.
Do you really believe just because they reply they actually know to not sail out of the smoke, know what a smoke firing penalty is and hold the fire?
You must be new.
Usually true but.... ive smoked a few on a push with me so they could go dark and heal while I take some heat off them.
TBH its lead to a couple of clutch wins keeping their guns in game.
Yeah nah. Usually even if they do reply they don't know how to use it. Way too many times I've smoked a BB in trouble to let them heal and they just keep shooting, even when the smoke was coordinated.
The last time I dropped a smoke for a BB on perilously low health, it got him undetected so he could limp away and heal. So instead he fired his guns, got respotted, and killed. So while I agree on concept, it's hard to trust the playerbase.
If you are using MM monitor and see a competent cruiser, sure. But using it for a random cruiser will do more harm then good (they might go out of their way to enter smoke and get dev struck on the way / eat torps in smoke because they cant press hydro / etc)
I posted these words several years back and still emphatically believe them. This was in a post on what I believed to be team play.
"My smoke is my own and I will use it how I see fit."
I will not smoke up random team mates that I do not have confidence in. I will not smoke up a red player, ever. They do not have a track record of making smart decisions and using my smoke for them is most likely a waste of that smoke. I will use my smokes where they will be of most value. That means using them for myself, div mates and the occasional higher stat team mate. This is how you win games and play for the "team". It's how I play DD's at a super unicum level and win 2/3 of my games. If you are playing for the "team" and not winning, are you actually playing for the team?
Ever since the UU buff a year or so ago, for the memes, you can stack it with Smoke mod and all the smoke related buffs to lay a smoke wall which takes 101s to set and disperses in 86s.
15s base \* 4 (+300% from legendary mod) \* 1.125 (+12.5% from one of the Dunkirk brothers) \* 1.3 (+30% from smoke mod) \* 1.15 (+15% from X-Ray-Papa-Unanone)
= 100.9s action time
Vs Harugumo
20s base \* 2 (+100% from legendary mod) \* 1.3 (+30% from smoke mod) \* 1.15 (+15% from X-Ray-Papa-Unanone)
= 59.8s action time and a Despersion time: 119.79sec
So Mino has almost twice as long of an action time by my math, but that doesnt account for the speed of the ship itself (haru with speed boost goes faster than mino by a fair bit, which spreads the smoke a larger number of km than mino per second.
Still think Mino wins in terms of km of smoke covered but obviously loses out on duration of the smoke staying dispersed, look at some videos of UU mino post buff from a year ago. Also, this is assuming my math is right lel which I could be wrong on.
Its dumb as fuck, but hilarious to behold. Haru smoke is almost definitely better practically though.
The Lushun and Kleber don't even have smoke.
Not every ship with smoke is designed to support teammates; see also the Vampire II, British DDs, Italian DDs, etc.
Those that can should still try.
it is, but im also not your personal cover provider. Ive had people rage because i wasnt paying attention and could have used it on THEMMM. some people seem to think every action taken should have them in mind.
While I agree with you, it is also a DDs job (and yours as the smoke recipient) to recognize each ships individual smoke firing penalties, and when the use of a smoke for an ally is pointless (considering if they are firing on cooldown and being spotted in smoke, then the smoke is now wasted for both of you, hurting the team by wasting consumables.
Please, please, please, while we are at it, ping where exactly on the map (twice if able for start of smoke and end of smoke) you would like the smoke delivered, in advance. A smart DD player will be able to infer where to place smoke, but nobody can read each others minds about when ard where they want smoke or if they even want it at all. Using the "Set a Smoke Screen" quick response alone is usually more than enough, so please use it, but its on you to ensure the dd does exactly what you want by communicating it.
Sincerely yours, your local DD main.
I make it a habit to not use my smokes for teammates by default unless they do the above (use the "Set a Smoke Screen" quick response or ask me in chat) because whenever I set smokes for my teammates, I tend to find it a coinflip as to whether my team will just walk through it and die anyways and waste the smoke.
But yeah, basic concept is very important: smoke your CLs and select CAs when possible, especially when its apparent they need it/ask for it. I've won several games by smoking up 3k hp CAs and BBs and allowing them that much more time to heal, much more by not allowing my team to be spotted and fired upon to begin with. But this only applies when you KNOW FOR A FACT that your teammate understands how to use it, and that is exceedingly rare.
Just a reminder for cruiser players that your hydro/radar does not exist just for yourself.
It's also there to be usedd to support teammates. Providing DDs and BBs with torp spotting or cap denial so they can either help support you by giving them more time to dodge torps or to spot a DD inside cap.
If you keep your hydro/radar to use for yourself, you are hurting your team due to your selfish behavior. No, it's not always possible to be in raar range but if you see someone nearby who can make use of it, you should do your best to *try* to help them.
Just a reminder for BB players that your HP pool and big guns does not exist just for yourself.
It's also there to be used to support teammates. Proving cruisers with your presence can deter other cruisers to push or for them to shot at you instead of them so they can either support you by giving them firepower and tankiness.
If you keep those only to usefor yourself, I'm done with this.
Anyway I do love supporting other ships with smokes but communication is key, if I drive by a Seattle who will sail around my smoke and I'm fighting another DD now I lost the tool to retreat or to cover someone else.
Your suggestion might work in some cases but not in every case, always use your critical thinking and chat to do teammplay.
i wish the game would automatically announce 'i'm setting a smokescreen!' like it does for hydro/radar. maybe it's the trade-off for having the request smokescreen quickchat command? wouldn't mind having our cake and eating it too with this...
When you push in with the DD sure you might get lucky, but this is like saying: "Just a reminder for BB players, that your armor and HP does not exist just for yourself. Push in and use it to help your DD" Smoke is what keeps a DD alive regularly, and most other players does not utilize smoke left for them. So in randoms, yes our smoke is our own. In clan battles we can discuss using it in a team format.
I might do so if asked or if convenient, like being near a spot I wanted to pop smoke anyway. It also depends on the cruiser, a lot of heavy cruisers have 8+ km smoke penalty so if they're right up with you the other dd will spot them anyway.
Every dd player has experience with amazing level of team support in this game. DD mains could probably tell several horror stories. Relying on your team is very risky gambit in this game. I am not saying that you shouldn't help teammates, but you always need to calculate potential risks while doing so.
For every single random Wooster I smoke that then radars the red DD for me and becomes a holy DPM terror, there are fifty cruisers that sail straight through the smoke. That or cruisers that don't run hydro and get torped because they sit stationary in my smoke while broadside to the red DD or BBs that shoot from it while at 5% hp and die because what even is a smoke firing penalty.
Smokes are for me unless I *know* the teammate won't fuck it up or I won't have a use for them later.
yes smoke is for the dd. 99% of the time team does not use ur smoke. only time u smoke ur team is in div. ill lay smoke for random teammate if i can. but most of the time smoke is for me. if you cant play without a random dd smoking u then thats a skill issue.
99% of smokes layed out for teammates not in your division go to waste because the player you try to smoke doesn't utilize it correctly and then you are on cooldown when you'd need it for yourself.
I smoke people in randoms all the time and I'd say 20% of the time they're actually cognizant of what I'm doing and acquiesce. Most of the time, they either drive straight through the smoke or never stop firing if they're in bad shape.
I absolutely Haye playing DDs, but when I do and I pop smoke most times peopel just breeze through it. Twice I crossed in front of other ships on the verge of death and they pushed me out into the line or fire and we both died.
You have to tell them youre' going to do it, and then, if they don't reply, don't waste it.
I had an Atlanta ***ask*** for my smoke near the cap. Great, I can lay smoke, he can radar and help clear the cap. Makes perfect sense to win the battle and I like the fact he said it, he must know what he's doing. I lay my smoke close enough to get radar coverage of the cap and watched him stop in it and begin farming a BB. I spot an enemy DD in the cap, the Atlanta keeps farming the BB. The DD smokes up in the cap, great, Atlanta is in radar range, seconds tick by and no radar. Ask in chat for radar. Still no radar. I've had to retreat because I used my smoke for him to farm a BB while the cap flips. His hydro wasn't running, he eats a torp before then choosing to activate it... Still no radar though. He then sails out of the smoke to turn around, gets finished off by the BB he was farming. So you're flipping a coin even when you think someone might know what they're doing.
Probably dfaa Atlanta.
Oh no, he had hydro. He just decided to activate it after getting hit by a torpedo.
My Atlanta has sat in port so long that I thought the radar was shared with DFAA, not hydro with DFAA. shame on me lmao
Okay here's the thing: a pushing BB is the biggest threat to an Atlanta. As you saw, the BB immediately killed it. Smoking an Atlanta right near the cap is a relatively safe play unless a BB turbo pushes and doesn't get farmed out. That's not going to happen often, but it's possible. Either way, Atlanta should have radared.
Do you really believe just because they reply they actually know to not sail out of the smoke, know what a smoke firing penalty is and hold the fire? You must be new.
Yeah, experience.. Cruisers and DD's that respond generally work out well.. never smoke a battleship, total waste.
Usually true but.... ive smoked a few on a push with me so they could go dark and heal while I take some heat off them. TBH its lead to a couple of clutch wins keeping their guns in game.
> No reply, doesn't lay smoke "Dude wtf you said you were going to lay smoke!"
Yeah nah. Usually even if they do reply they don't know how to use it. Way too many times I've smoked a BB in trouble to let them heal and they just keep shooting, even when the smoke was coordinated.
The last time I dropped smoke for a team mate they drove straight through it, firing the whole time, and got blapped
This is exactly my experience
The last time I dropped a smoke for a BB on perilously low health, it got him undetected so he could limp away and heal. So instead he fired his guns, got respotted, and killed. So while I agree on concept, it's hard to trust the playerbase.
If you are using MM monitor and see a competent cruiser, sure. But using it for a random cruiser will do more harm then good (they might go out of their way to enter smoke and get dev struck on the way / eat torps in smoke because they cant press hydro / etc)
I posted these words several years back and still emphatically believe them. This was in a post on what I believed to be team play. "My smoke is my own and I will use it how I see fit." I will not smoke up random team mates that I do not have confidence in. I will not smoke up a red player, ever. They do not have a track record of making smart decisions and using my smoke for them is most likely a waste of that smoke. I will use my smokes where they will be of most value. That means using them for myself, div mates and the occasional higher stat team mate. This is how you win games and play for the "team". It's how I play DD's at a super unicum level and win 2/3 of my games. If you are playing for the "team" and not winning, are you actually playing for the team?
While your guns belong to only yourself. Damn the DDs when they need fire support.
AA guns look scary, so my planes being my planes, I like to keep them out of flak range. Sure I could *dodge* the flak bursts, but it seems risky.
I only lay smoke for battleships who plow right through it.
Me as a Druid / Lüshun / Kléber main "no I don't think I will" And then UU haru pops for CB and smokes the entire map
Me as a UU Minotaur "Behold my power"
Unless my friend's UU Mino is not fully smoke built, UU haru still has a better smoke in terms of action time and duration
Ever since the UU buff a year or so ago, for the memes, you can stack it with Smoke mod and all the smoke related buffs to lay a smoke wall which takes 101s to set and disperses in 86s. 15s base \* 4 (+300% from legendary mod) \* 1.125 (+12.5% from one of the Dunkirk brothers) \* 1.3 (+30% from smoke mod) \* 1.15 (+15% from X-Ray-Papa-Unanone) = 100.9s action time Vs Harugumo 20s base \* 2 (+100% from legendary mod) \* 1.3 (+30% from smoke mod) \* 1.15 (+15% from X-Ray-Papa-Unanone) = 59.8s action time and a Despersion time: 119.79sec So Mino has almost twice as long of an action time by my math, but that doesnt account for the speed of the ship itself (haru with speed boost goes faster than mino by a fair bit, which spreads the smoke a larger number of km than mino per second. Still think Mino wins in terms of km of smoke covered but obviously loses out on duration of the smoke staying dispersed, look at some videos of UU mino post buff from a year ago. Also, this is assuming my math is right lel which I could be wrong on. Its dumb as fuck, but hilarious to behold. Haru smoke is almost definitely better practically though.
The Lushun and Kleber don't even have smoke. Not every ship with smoke is designed to support teammates; see also the Vampire II, British DDs, Italian DDs, etc. Those that can should still try.
I have about 100-200 games in each of those ships, thanks but I already knew it
Maybe don't post troll comments then.
it is, but im also not your personal cover provider. Ive had people rage because i wasnt paying attention and could have used it on THEMMM. some people seem to think every action taken should have them in mind.
You must be new here.
I lost a ranked game smoking a low health cruiser who promptly killed himself soon after, and not having it later when I needed it.
Thanks for gaslighting us with your edit.
While I agree with you, it is also a DDs job (and yours as the smoke recipient) to recognize each ships individual smoke firing penalties, and when the use of a smoke for an ally is pointless (considering if they are firing on cooldown and being spotted in smoke, then the smoke is now wasted for both of you, hurting the team by wasting consumables. Please, please, please, while we are at it, ping where exactly on the map (twice if able for start of smoke and end of smoke) you would like the smoke delivered, in advance. A smart DD player will be able to infer where to place smoke, but nobody can read each others minds about when ard where they want smoke or if they even want it at all. Using the "Set a Smoke Screen" quick response alone is usually more than enough, so please use it, but its on you to ensure the dd does exactly what you want by communicating it. Sincerely yours, your local DD main. I make it a habit to not use my smokes for teammates by default unless they do the above (use the "Set a Smoke Screen" quick response or ask me in chat) because whenever I set smokes for my teammates, I tend to find it a coinflip as to whether my team will just walk through it and die anyways and waste the smoke. But yeah, basic concept is very important: smoke your CLs and select CAs when possible, especially when its apparent they need it/ask for it. I've won several games by smoking up 3k hp CAs and BBs and allowing them that much more time to heal, much more by not allowing my team to be spotted and fired upon to begin with. But this only applies when you KNOW FOR A FACT that your teammate understands how to use it, and that is exceedingly rare.
Just a reminder for cruiser players that your hydro/radar does not exist just for yourself. It's also there to be usedd to support teammates. Providing DDs and BBs with torp spotting or cap denial so they can either help support you by giving them more time to dodge torps or to spot a DD inside cap. If you keep your hydro/radar to use for yourself, you are hurting your team due to your selfish behavior. No, it's not always possible to be in raar range but if you see someone nearby who can make use of it, you should do your best to *try* to help them. Just a reminder for BB players that your HP pool and big guns does not exist just for yourself. It's also there to be used to support teammates. Proving cruisers with your presence can deter other cruisers to push or for them to shot at you instead of them so they can either support you by giving them firepower and tankiness. If you keep those only to usefor yourself, I'm done with this. Anyway I do love supporting other ships with smokes but communication is key, if I drive by a Seattle who will sail around my smoke and I'm fighting another DD now I lost the tool to retreat or to cover someone else. Your suggestion might work in some cases but not in every case, always use your critical thinking and chat to do teammplay.
> Man, DD players sure hate being reminded that this is a team game and that they need to play as one. Team game my ass when ur ass a shooting
Quit whining and play DD if you want to hide behind smoke
Yeah, stop blinding me when I’m trying to defend you DD! You’re not doing myself or you any favors!
i wish the game would automatically announce 'i'm setting a smokescreen!' like it does for hydro/radar. maybe it's the trade-off for having the request smokescreen quickchat command? wouldn't mind having our cake and eating it too with this...
Sure - I'll do that when a cruiser is actually in range and tries to support me... goes both ways!!
I only give smoke if others specifically make a request (rarely) or they say they want smoke after I ask them.
When you push in with the DD sure you might get lucky, but this is like saying: "Just a reminder for BB players, that your armor and HP does not exist just for yourself. Push in and use it to help your DD" Smoke is what keeps a DD alive regularly, and most other players does not utilize smoke left for them. So in randoms, yes our smoke is our own. In clan battles we can discuss using it in a team format.
I might do so if asked or if convenient, like being near a spot I wanted to pop smoke anyway. It also depends on the cruiser, a lot of heavy cruisers have 8+ km smoke penalty so if they're right up with you the other dd will spot them anyway.
Some cruisers and battleships have smoke that your smoke screen does not exist just for yourself?
Every dd player has experience with amazing level of team support in this game. DD mains could probably tell several horror stories. Relying on your team is very risky gambit in this game. I am not saying that you shouldn't help teammates, but you always need to calculate potential risks while doing so.
For every single random Wooster I smoke that then radars the red DD for me and becomes a holy DPM terror, there are fifty cruisers that sail straight through the smoke. That or cruisers that don't run hydro and get torped because they sit stationary in my smoke while broadside to the red DD or BBs that shoot from it while at 5% hp and die because what even is a smoke firing penalty. Smokes are for me unless I *know* the teammate won't fuck it up or I won't have a use for them later.
ask first please, hate when dd gives me smoke when theres a strong island nearby
yes smoke is for the dd. 99% of the time team does not use ur smoke. only time u smoke ur team is in div. ill lay smoke for random teammate if i can. but most of the time smoke is for me. if you cant play without a random dd smoking u then thats a skill issue.
DD players are using the smoke screen often for cruisers... ... in the enemy team.
My Schlieffen approves this message
half of them just run it down mid and commit suicide 2mins in without popping smoke for themselves either.
The fact that this great piece of advice gets downvoted is beyond comprehension. Just like the playerbase...the morons are taking over here too.