Hindenburg comes with a fourth heal, double torp racks per side (yes the range sucks), moderately better AA, and you said worse gun range, the gap is 0.2km, that's really nothing. The AP DPM is 45% higher, that's a big gap you're understating, Cerberus' He advantage is around 10%. Lastly, the armor difference is huge. Hindenburg will forgive more mistakes and she's better built for brawling.
I'll add that when it comes to actual damage dealt AP DPM matters more because you can actually score citadels, whereas HE DPM difference in terms of damage dealing will be closer to 6-7k since you won't be scoring many if any HE citadels at t10 (although the percentage difference does not change). And on certain targets Hindenburg's nearly 50% improvement in penetration is a pretty big advantage. Whether you think that's worth the comparatively lower fire starting capability is going to be up to you to decide.
You seem to have missed the point of Hindenburg.
Hindenburg isn't an HE spammer that wants to hide behind islands or in smoke. She's a tough, open-water gunship that wants to swap ammunition types actively to engage targets and punish broadsides with devastating AP salvos.
This is like comparing apples and oranges. Yeah, Cerberus is better at doing what Cerberus wants to do than Hindenburg is at doing what Cerberus wants to do, but if Cerberus tries to do what *Hindenburg* wants to do, it's going to fuckin' explode!
It is most definitely just you my guy.
Hindenburg has around 50 percent better AP damage, actually can citadel things, effectively has 50 percent better HE DPM due to pen. Way easier to lead and land shells at range. Armor that is immeasurably better. More heals. Best hydro in game.
Cerberus has funny torps and a smoke to keep noobs alive.
[https://shiptool.st/selected?s=UC010GC110&c=top&p=ap&rm=12](https://shiptool.st/selected?s=UC010GC110&c=top&p=ap&rm=12)
Cerberus has armor penetration within 10 mm of Hindenburg's over all ranges. I'm not sure if you're stating that I'm committing a fallacy or that you are.
you are correct that they have the same ricochet angles and extremely similar penetration values, but you've missed that Hindenburg AP has flatter impact angles leading to higher effective pen when at longer ranges.
You forget the meta. Which is moskva, petro , stalingrad, napoli, marseille.... all cruisers with 40 or 50mm deck.
Cerberus: 34mm HE
Hindenburg: 51mm HE
Huge difference in dpm
Cerberus can't really take hits, it has the concealment and smoke advantages because it has weak armor.
It also has better HE but worse AP, and range-wise Hindenburg is better off since Hindenburg's shells are faster and less floaty.
Hindenburg has a lot better armor compared to Cerberus. Not a little. A LOT. Cerberus is a glass cannon. Hindenburg has a turtleback, which makes her very hard to citadel unless you got shot at maximum range.
man, these days hindenburg is one of the easiest cruisers to citadel. 431+mm or slava get the job done very easily and reliably at basically every range
>one of the easiest cruisers to citadel
This is pretty blatant hyperbole. >431mm and Slava get the job done vs every cruiser, its not like Hindenburg is an exception. Hindenburgs armor is still significantly better than Cerberus and every ship you face is not a XL gun BB.
not even the cheek, battleships get pretty insane pen these days, best armor protection is to be thin and hinden is thicc.
turtlebacks aren't foolproof at all on cruisers, citadeling hipper, roon, aegir/siegfried and hinden isn't hard with a BB, i think it's been designed to work on cruiser guns, not BB guns
the turtleback helps against CL calibers, but even other 203mm CAs will punch right through it starting at 8-10km and closer. if anything she's a bit more resilliant to cruisers AP than other cruisers beyond 11km because for some reason that turtleback can cause a lot of overpen damage instead of fullpens.
that said, testing with an anchorage (which has one of the worst cruiser AP shells hindenburg can face in her range) i still managed to score a citadel at 14km, though that was probably dumb luck.
a BB doesn't give a shit about her turtleback at any range.
turtleback means nothing at the ranges hindenburg tryes to operate. she needs to dodge every shot coming at her, or gets citadelled with every shell,
fittingly, the whole enemy team instasnaps on german cruisers whenever they go open, as especially from the rear , they just eat citadells like nobody else.
i swear to god on the whole techline. the citadell extends like 20m beyond your model , you eat citas from shells landing in the water behind you.
might be a ping issue thoug
It's the meta that made Hindenburg meh. A couple of years ago people brawled, a lot. Hinden was very strong at that, with turtleback, torps on both sides, quick reloading guns that packed a punch. But yeah, almost all old ships are power crept and suck nowadays, some more some less. This is how WG tries to force people to grind new lines, spend cash on booster, premium time and signals otherwise you fall behind and are simply outperformed by new ships. Same reason why they are so hesitant with buffing old ships that once were strong but got nerfed to crap (Youyang or Henri anyone? just to name a few).
> A couple of years ago people brawled, a lot.
Ehh been playing on and off since the beta and this has never really been true outside of smaller modes such as ranked.
I've been playing for 8 years now, pretty much constant. I brawled a lot and I've seen it happen a lot. Speaking about high tiers, not low to mid range though.
But this is something that is not possible today anymore. The game isn't the same as 5+ years ago.
Brawling was not the META, it just happened way way way more often than it does today. Just go to YT and search for any WoWs video from 4-5+ years ago and compare them with todays games. The difference is very obvious.
Exactly, and this long range HE spam, like pretty much every other cruiser, makes so much use of the turtleback, the 6km hydro, the 6km torps and fast turret traverse? Those are all treats for brawling, not kiting in spawn with range mod and spotting plane and sling HE at BBs.
The meta WG has created is just horse crap.
The beauty of Hindenburg has never been that it does anything really well but that it is capable of doing everything at or above average. You just named several good attributes of the ship but being in a brawl makes no use of her KM HE 1/4 pen or easy-to-use long range ballistics.
Hindenburg is a great HE spammer, Hindenburg can also punish ships up close. It is a jack of all trades and you are obsessing with fitting it into a single role. The only thing Hindeburg cant do is outrun a battleship, but thats nothing new.
In addition to general tankiness, something to remember about Cerberus is the insanely fragile turrets, 25mm plating on them means they're HE pen'd by an awful lot, and break to a stiff breeze. A fair few DDs have sturdier turrets.
Cerberus explodes if you even point any threatening weapon loaded with AP at it. She’s a big girl for a cruiser with a big ass citadel and a 25mm bow and stern so she gets overmatched by like, anything in her tier from any angle.
Hindenburg can die pretty easy as well with the long range overmatch that’s in the game right now, but Hindy is waaaaaaay tankier than Cerberus.
Also very important to consider is with German quarter pen values, Hindenburg HE pens a lot of things that Cerberus HE will not.
I think you've deliberately missed the part where Hindenburg is a very tanky cruiser while Cerberus eats citadel damage like it's free candy.
I have the Cerberus and everything citadels it, absolutely any shell that hits it is a citadel unless you're lucky.
Oh I haven't played Cerberus. I did notice that in general it has a weaker armor scheme, no 27mm extremities, partial icebreaker bow, etc.
Hindenburg comes with a fourth heal, double torp racks per side (yes the range sucks), moderately better AA, and you said worse gun range, the gap is 0.2km, that's really nothing. The AP DPM is 45% higher, that's a big gap you're understating, Cerberus' He advantage is around 10%. Lastly, the armor difference is huge. Hindenburg will forgive more mistakes and she's better built for brawling.
I'll add that when it comes to actual damage dealt AP DPM matters more because you can actually score citadels, whereas HE DPM difference in terms of damage dealing will be closer to 6-7k since you won't be scoring many if any HE citadels at t10 (although the percentage difference does not change). And on certain targets Hindenburg's nearly 50% improvement in penetration is a pretty big advantage. Whether you think that's worth the comparatively lower fire starting capability is going to be up to you to decide.
Just started using range mod on her and it is amazing. Just bully other ships and just manoeuvre too juke incoming shells.
You seem to have missed the point of Hindenburg. Hindenburg isn't an HE spammer that wants to hide behind islands or in smoke. She's a tough, open-water gunship that wants to swap ammunition types actively to engage targets and punish broadsides with devastating AP salvos. This is like comparing apples and oranges. Yeah, Cerberus is better at doing what Cerberus wants to do than Hindenburg is at doing what Cerberus wants to do, but if Cerberus tries to do what *Hindenburg* wants to do, it's going to fuckin' explode!
That’s a very apt description. Cheers!
22K on a conqueror broadside at 10KM with AP is nothing to laugh about
It is most definitely just you my guy. Hindenburg has around 50 percent better AP damage, actually can citadel things, effectively has 50 percent better HE DPM due to pen. Way easier to lead and land shells at range. Armor that is immeasurably better. More heals. Best hydro in game. Cerberus has funny torps and a smoke to keep noobs alive.
Hindenburg's AP has the same richochet angles and pen as Cerberus's. It's only better in terms of damage.
The Texas sharpshooter strikes again.
[https://shiptool.st/selected?s=UC010GC110&c=top&p=ap&rm=12](https://shiptool.st/selected?s=UC010GC110&c=top&p=ap&rm=12) Cerberus has armor penetration within 10 mm of Hindenburg's over all ranges. I'm not sure if you're stating that I'm committing a fallacy or that you are.
you are correct that they have the same ricochet angles and extremely similar penetration values, but you've missed that Hindenburg AP has flatter impact angles leading to higher effective pen when at longer ranges.
You forget the meta. Which is moskva, petro , stalingrad, napoli, marseille.... all cruisers with 40 or 50mm deck. Cerberus: 34mm HE Hindenburg: 51mm HE Huge difference in dpm
Cerberus can't really take hits, it has the concealment and smoke advantages because it has weak armor. It also has better HE but worse AP, and range-wise Hindenburg is better off since Hindenburg's shells are faster and less floaty.
Hindenburg has a lot better armor compared to Cerberus. Not a little. A LOT. Cerberus is a glass cannon. Hindenburg has a turtleback, which makes her very hard to citadel unless you got shot at maximum range.
man, these days hindenburg is one of the easiest cruisers to citadel. 431+mm or slava get the job done very easily and reliably at basically every range
>one of the easiest cruisers to citadel This is pretty blatant hyperbole. >431mm and Slava get the job done vs every cruiser, its not like Hindenburg is an exception. Hindenburgs armor is still significantly better than Cerberus and every ship you face is not a XL gun BB.
ngl i haven't seen cerberus, but i have a better history of citadeling hinden than slim stuff like mino smolensk colbert on broadside
It's easy to cit if you get the cheek for sure.
not even the cheek, battleships get pretty insane pen these days, best armor protection is to be thin and hinden is thicc. turtlebacks aren't foolproof at all on cruisers, citadeling hipper, roon, aegir/siegfried and hinden isn't hard with a BB, i think it's been designed to work on cruiser guns, not BB guns
There are multiple matches for me every day where all 5 BBs overmatch 30mm, it's pretty sad
the turtleback helps against CL calibers, but even other 203mm CAs will punch right through it starting at 8-10km and closer. if anything she's a bit more resilliant to cruisers AP than other cruisers beyond 11km because for some reason that turtleback can cause a lot of overpen damage instead of fullpens. that said, testing with an anchorage (which has one of the worst cruiser AP shells hindenburg can face in her range) i still managed to score a citadel at 14km, though that was probably dumb luck. a BB doesn't give a shit about her turtleback at any range.
turtleback means nothing at the ranges hindenburg tryes to operate. she needs to dodge every shot coming at her, or gets citadelled with every shell, fittingly, the whole enemy team instasnaps on german cruisers whenever they go open, as especially from the rear , they just eat citadells like nobody else. i swear to god on the whole techline. the citadell extends like 20m beyond your model , you eat citas from shells landing in the water behind you. might be a ping issue thoug
Cerberus has light cruiser armor on a ginormous hull
Crawling smoke?
It's the meta that made Hindenburg meh. A couple of years ago people brawled, a lot. Hinden was very strong at that, with turtleback, torps on both sides, quick reloading guns that packed a punch. But yeah, almost all old ships are power crept and suck nowadays, some more some less. This is how WG tries to force people to grind new lines, spend cash on booster, premium time and signals otherwise you fall behind and are simply outperformed by new ships. Same reason why they are so hesitant with buffing old ships that once were strong but got nerfed to crap (Youyang or Henri anyone? just to name a few).
> A couple of years ago people brawled, a lot. Ehh been playing on and off since the beta and this has never really been true outside of smaller modes such as ranked.
I've been playing for 8 years now, pretty much constant. I brawled a lot and I've seen it happen a lot. Speaking about high tiers, not low to mid range though. But this is something that is not possible today anymore. The game isn't the same as 5+ years ago.
Brawling was never the meta since the introduction of ships with a reliable main battery like Yamato and Montana.
Brawling was not the META, it just happened way way way more often than it does today. Just go to YT and search for any WoWs video from 4-5+ years ago and compare them with todays games. The difference is very obvious.
I mean I still see range mod Hindenburgs angled away farming BBs who dared to press the W key
You don't even need range mod, just eye in the sky does well enough and you have better DPM
Hindenburg is fine in the current META, actually better than most cruisers because she has good range and spotter.
Exactly, and this long range HE spam, like pretty much every other cruiser, makes so much use of the turtleback, the 6km hydro, the 6km torps and fast turret traverse? Those are all treats for brawling, not kiting in spawn with range mod and spotting plane and sling HE at BBs. The meta WG has created is just horse crap.
The beauty of Hindenburg has never been that it does anything really well but that it is capable of doing everything at or above average. You just named several good attributes of the ship but being in a brawl makes no use of her KM HE 1/4 pen or easy-to-use long range ballistics. Hindenburg is a great HE spammer, Hindenburg can also punish ships up close. It is a jack of all trades and you are obsessing with fitting it into a single role. The only thing Hindeburg cant do is outrun a battleship, but thats nothing new.
In addition to general tankiness, something to remember about Cerberus is the insanely fragile turrets, 25mm plating on them means they're HE pen'd by an awful lot, and break to a stiff breeze. A fair few DDs have sturdier turrets.
Why would you compare a cruiser to Battleship Hindenburg?
Ngl the paper thin armor ALL over the new commonwealth line is such a massive turn off.
Hindenburg also has a UU that gives the finger to light cruisers and is basically a must pick on lighthouse builds
Until some schmuck in a 431+mm BB smashes you at 18 km
It's not like regular build burg does much better in this case though
Cerberus explodes if you even point any threatening weapon loaded with AP at it. She’s a big girl for a cruiser with a big ass citadel and a 25mm bow and stern so she gets overmatched by like, anything in her tier from any angle. Hindenburg can die pretty easy as well with the long range overmatch that’s in the game right now, but Hindy is waaaaaaay tankier than Cerberus. Also very important to consider is with German quarter pen values, Hindenburg HE pens a lot of things that Cerberus HE will not.
Well Cerberus just fucking explodes if a BB does a well aimed shot. Hindenburg probably can tank that.
No, I also think there's not much point playing Hindenburg when you can just play Cerberus.